Mini 568 - Nubigena (Game over!)
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XReyoX Goon
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Sorry, did i missed something there?Mafiaplayer wrote:
I made a mistake and thought that the Vig killed N0 was an NPC.XReyoX wrote:
..... Mafiaplayer-Incognito wrote:Further, why are you claiming Vanilla townie in the opening post?
You should pay more attention to other players post as well, not just the opening post. So... Care to explain?
Do you mean you voted avinashv, thinking he is an NPC? Why would you vote for an NPC in the first place.-
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XReyoX Goon
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Mafiaplayer-
Who told you that mafia would usually claim PRs? and why should we LAP? Surely if one of them claim townie, we'll all be as dead as a dodoo.
The suggestion that a mafia would claim the his true role is insulting our intellegence.
Also, ignoring people's questions again and again is not very protown.XReyoX wrote:Why would you vote for an NPC in the first place?-
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XReyoX Goon
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I agree with most of Y's #74.
Mafiaplayer ignoring my questions numerous times is getting really irritating. I don't like my Qs unanswered (which includes the stuffs about LAP, mafia roleclaiming, why he would think everyone would massclaim at the very beginning of the game, and etc…). Accusing people for not adapting to this play style is a very bad excuse for making scummy posts. Him saying Y is ignoring other people is calling the kettle black. Trying to vote for a corpse, sammich, me, and then Y looks hoppy to me.
Sammich’s dicevoting is not much of a scumtell IMO. Tho I’m a bit suspicious of him saying he rolled a dice in real life which told him to vote for himself. However, whether he was lying or not, I think it was an attempt to spring some discussion, not really a scumtell. Rolclaiming townie at this point is not at all necessary and I didn’t expect an experienced player like sammich to claim in this situation, understanding that roleclaiming townie only provides more information for the scum to work on whilst providing almost no benefit to the town at all. The excuse for not getting the answer right is poor. (Deleted your pm? Why didn’t you say so why you claim?)
The first impression on Jerubbaal was that he was rolefishing when he asked for people’s rolename, but then realised it was an attempt to see if MP is really a townie.
The bit voting and unvoting between Lowell, Jerubbaal, Near and Phantom, and thing about metagaming is confusing me. Can’t read anything from it atm.-
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Jerubbaal:
How can you read him as a townie if he don't have any logic in his posts. I mean if its so impossible to comprehense what he is thinking, then he can be a scum as much as he is a town. In addition he is not giving any benefit to the town at all and might even be destructive, lets say if he hammers people when we can gain more information by leaving it at L-1 or he can be wasting potentially useful cop investigation, etc....
He has not shown any respect to other players and the mod by ignoring people's comments and not reading the openning post (which I'm sure the mod has spent a lot of time writing it and making the front page all colourful).
I'm hating myself for commenting on him because I'm sure all he wants is to irritate people and I've fallen into it. He has not only proven himself to be close to useless but is also clouding my vision and drawing my attention to this when I could have spent more time looking into more useful posts and find scums.
Anyway
Mafiaplayer, could you just answer these questions for me to make believe that you have a brain:
1) Why do you think people would massclaim after you?
2) Why do you think it is beneficial to the town by claiming townie when this would mean that the scums can rule you out for the NK because killing power role is a better choice for them?
3)Do you have any other reasons for lynching sammich beside wanting to see what his role is?
4)Why is lynching all power role a good strategy?
5)Who do you think is the most scummy person at the moment and why?
6)What do you think about others people's play so far? Please mention at least 2.
Thanks.-
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XReyoX Goon
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Mod:I demand Mafiaplayer to be replaced and some sort of investigation to be carried out. I heavily suspect that MP is some sort of joke account and was not created to play the game properly. This thing has shown some kind of thinking pattern in other forums but not in any games. It knows that it is stupid as well. Although it is not set in stone that a genuine player have to sign up for a game immediate, upon joining the forum, MP went to disscuss "worst roles" in the mafia discussion section and have shown to have decent knowledge of the game and abbreviations used around the forum. I believe that the first thing any players would do is to sign up for a game once their accounts have been approved. We've all been there when we first join.
Anyway, back to the game:
After a re-read, i have something to point out.
Sammich was on L-3 i think, not L-1.Imat wrote:Also,Unvote: SammichI think hes at L-1.
Mod:Votecount please?
Near:
Could you please post more about your thought on various people instead of vote-hopping?
After the re-read i think near is less scummy than i originally thought. Although the reasons behind the votes aren't strong, he wasn't jumping onto big wagons and this seems to accomplish little if he is scum IMO. I'd keep my eyes on this though.
Lowell:
Could you please explain the theory behind the Y/Near scumteam? I don't seems to see it at the moment.
Mafiaplayer:
Why did you vote for avin? you said that you thought he is an NPC.-
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MP, are you referring to this?
I'm simply amazed.XReyoX wrote:The suggestion that a mafia would claim the his true role is insultingourintellegence.
1)What do you think about other people except me, Y and sammich?
2)Do you believe that changing your vote almost every other post is a pro-town behaviour?
3)Are you voting people because you truly think that they are scums or are you just wanna OMGUS vote people who criticize you game play or etc?
Imat:
That can be a potential scumtell. Just following people's suspicions without adding his own thoughts can minimizes the chance of people reading his real intension. However, it can also be a lazy townie or as you've mentioned, an easily swayed town.
The post which made me wanna watch out for him is this:
It sounds like he knows jerubbaal is town yet he is suspecting him... (and for being too townie). I don't understand how he can think someone is suspicious but is town as well at the same time, unless jerubbaal is dead and has his role revealed.Near wrote:maybe i suck at scum hunting- because i'm now suspecting jerubbaal.-
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XReyoX
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mod:Can we have MP's links to be removed? I think linking to other mafia sites is violating the general forum rules.
Incognito: The differences between MP and the other players you've mentioned is that MP is deliberately trying to mess the game up. Although I agree that the other players have a scummy playstyle, they put efforts in their games and try to win. MP is doing the exact opposite. It just wanna draw our attention and provoke people to see how far it can go before we will lynch it or something.
Having MP staying in the game gives no benefit to the town at all. In addition, I can imagine MP prematurely hammering people for reasons like " I feel like voting him. I think he was scum", "I just wanna see his alignment", "I messed up the code, I meant to vote for so and so"... but it probably will make reasons up that are unheard of.
I don't like value lynch as well because we don't get much information from it and the chance that MP is town is more likely (purely because no. of town> no. of scum). I think that people are giving too much credit for MP because of its awful playstyle. Acting like this in any situation doesn't prove MP to be town. For being so unpredictatable, it can be either. On top of that, if MP is a vig, I'm just saying as an example, it could be killing the most protown people with its power.
Anyway, I agree that we should only lynch MP if we have no other worthy candidates to choose from on D1. However, as the game continues and every vote can potential be critical to the outcome, I have no objection on lynching MP later in the game if it keeps playing like this.-
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XReyoX Goon
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XReyoX wrote:Sammich:
I'm sorry if I've missed your answer somewhere. Why did you claim, why do you think that it was a good time to claim townie and what made you think you want to vouch for mafiaplayer because you are a townie.
Sammich:
There is a difference between sparking useful discussion and useless discussion. Besides, in terms of usefully, I would give MP a negative. Thats why I want him to be replaced, not lynched.-
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Lowell, I assume you're referring to this when you said Y and Near could be scumteam, right?
I see where that came from, but it is kind of one-sided IMO.Y wrote:@ Near: We're all happy you're here, but could you add some of your own thoughts? It's your second post, and the second time you just vote some one due to some other player's reasons.
btw is it possible to have a SK or a cult in this game?-
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Mafiaplayer wrote:
You asked for them. Were you trying to get me banned?XReyoX wrote:mod:Can we have MP's links to be removed? I think linking to other mafia sites is violating the general forum rules.No, I didn't. Sorry, I didn't notice jerubbaal asked for it when I post that.X
Jeez, why are people pointing at me for things I didn't say?-
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XReyoX
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XReyoX Goon
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First and foremost: I AM NOT a girl! Why do I have to bring this up every single game. Read the gender icon.... read
Near: it was just as example. I forgot that we had our vig killed already (my first game with a night start). But I was just trying to make an extreme case since other roles don't have so much of an effect. I don't think MP is a vig anyway.-
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Both scum and town can try hard to proof themselves townie. There is no "too hard" in my book so I don't think it is a scumtell. Jerubbaal thinks MP is messing up this game and I agree with that. It is obvious.Near wrote:jerrubaal was the first person to question mafiaplayer for his role. I have not yet played with mafiaplayer in my previous games, but jerrubaal seems to think he's trying to mess up this game. then comes up with a clever, yet not fool-proof way to confirm MP's vanilla claim. at the same time though, he seems to be pretty convinced that MP is vanilla. plus this post:
Ok, here's yet another speculation by me, but isn't he trying too hard to look townie here?jerrubaal wrote:Top left corner of the box in your role PM, what is it? You have something there, I guarantee.
His attempt on ask MP for his role to see if MP is lying seem fine, although getting the answer right doesn't means MP is town. It means if MP is town, MP is probably vanilla. Thats it. Jerubbaal being the first to ask doesn't make him scum either. First, second or third.... makes no difference to me.
Near:
Asking me to ignore some of your posts doesn't seem right. Even if it is a whole lot of rubbish, I'd like you to tell me where it has come from. It is scummy to throw something out here and wish someone can back you up or finding reasons for you.
Sammich's #175 seems fabricated to me. Voting for himself doesn't make it more believable.
Where?Sammich wrote:
Already discussed.Near wrote:- for vouching for mafia player
XReyoX wrote:XReyoX wrote:XReyoX wrote:Sammich:
I'm sorry if I've missed your answer somewhere. Why did you claim, why do you think that it was a good time to claim townie and what made you think you want to vouch for mafiaplayer because you are a townie.-
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XReyoX Goon
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No, I don't put much weight behind it. But my point is that the random voting stage serves to create some discussion. A series of joke votes get people talking. Dicevoting is not scummy. However, it shows that the player who dicevote is either too lazy or do not want to take any responsibility for his vote. The dicevote also does not provoke any discussion at all. Just imagine if everyone dicevote at the beginning, where shall we go from there? It's something I've learnt recently. Joke vote>dicevoteIncognito wrote:I don't get it. Why is it not a good play? Are you placing that much weight behind the random voting stage?-
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The point I'm trying to make is that I highly doubt sammich rolled the dice.Near wrote:Well, I could be wrong and he actually rolled the dice, but I find that hard to believe.
Look at the time difference between the post where he messed up the code and the post where he said he rolled a dice and vote for himself.
Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 4:04 pm Post subject: 10
Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 4:05 pm Post subject: 11
1 minute.
So. in 1 minute, he
1) messed up the code and decide to do it manually
2) find 2 dice and a coin
3) assign 11 people and a reroll to each number
4) roll dice 1
5) reroll dice 1 again
6) roll dice 2
7) flip a coin
8) look up and see what he has got
9) type out his next post and submit it.-
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XReyoX Goon
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Hey sammich,
If its a joke vote, admit that it's a joke vote. Don't try do make something up later on in the game so that you seem innocent. It doesn't work. I don't like lying town. Voting yourself doesn't make you a town either. What has a night start got to do with voting yourself anyway?
Tbh, I'm not too concerned about that like I've said. It's just something I'm not very happy with.
1,2,3,4...XReyoX wrote:XReyoX wrote:XReyoX wrote:Sammich:
I'm sorry if I've missed your answer somewhere. Why did you claim, why do you think that it was a good time to claim townie and what made you think you want to vouch for mafiaplayer because you are a townie.-
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gorckat:
You've missed the post where Sammich admitted he lied. I didn't say it was physically impossible. Just highly unlikely. Thats why I persued the issue further along with other stuffs. The fact that he lied about one thing and then craft something to cover it up indicates he could do so with other cases as well. Since a scum wouldn't gain anything from what sammich did, it doesn't look like a scumtell to me. However, the fact that he continuously ignored my question is starting to get irritating.
Imat is right about the argument on scum avoiding scumtells. It leads us into a loop.
Is this neglect or selective reading?XReyoX wrote:XReyoX wrote:XReyoX wrote:XReyoX wrote:Sammich:
I'm sorry if I've missed your answer somewhere. Why did you claim, why do you think that it was a good time to claim townie and what made you think you want to vouch for mafiaplayer because you are a townie.-
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If I'd have to guess how he came up with the list. I'd say he filled it up while scrolling and skimming up and down page 1.
dice1
MP-first post.
lowell and incognito- third post.
Me- second post.
Then sammich himself.
dice2:
phantom, cat, tony and imat. All appeared a few post later.
and then jerubbaal.
Y and near didn't appear on Page1 so they are last on the dice.
it's interesting to know whether I'm right sammich-
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XReyoX Goon
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Me also think the dice-rolling thing should end here...
Me also think sammich should answer this...
XreyoX wrote:XreyoX wrote:XreyoX wrote:XreyoX wrote:XreyoX wrote:Sammich:
I'msorryifI'vemissedyouranswersomewhere.Whydidyouclaim,whydoyouthinkthatitwasagoodtimetoclaimtownieandwhatmadeyouthinkyouwantedtovouchformafiaplayerbecauseyouareatownie.
Me also think we should hear what lowell has to say since he thinks what we're discussing is useless.-
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Incognito has explained well on what I was trying to say. Dicevoting does NOT indicate someone is scum.
Lying is not a good behaviour and if I’d have to choose from two candidates who are equally scummy and get one of them lynch, I’d choose the lying one. HOWEVER, lying alone doesn’t indicate one is scum especially when the lie doesn’t give any benefit at all to the scum. If say, sammich lied that he is a sane cop and presented a guilty result on player X who is then revealed to be a town. I’d say he would be scum. But in the case of lying about dicevoting, I don’t see how a scum can benefit from it.
Avoiding questions IS scummy. (sammich)
Rewinding IS also scummy. (near)
Y:
I disagree with this.
To me, it seems like he really really thinks sammich is scum and is trying to prove it to us instead. I’d let him finish with that “test” before deciding whether he should be lynch. At the moment, the wagon seems too big to my liking.Y wrote:Since I think Near is confusing the town and does whatever he can just to get some one lynched, I'llVote Near.
Imat:
A list can provide information for the scum to make better decisions with their NK. However, it allows the town to see a better picture of what direction a player is heading to and generate discussion as well. So, the best thing is to list and make cases against who you think is scummy but leave out the people who you think is town since that piece of info is useful to the scum but not so helpful for the town.
I agree with ripley that it is suspicious that sammich has put a lot of his attention on the night start. To a townie, it just means the potential cop out their has done an investigation (i guess?) and the vig is dead. It means almost nothing.
Ripley:
The request was serious.-
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I agree with Y to a certain extent on this one. Near is not focusing on the more meaningful scumtell IMO. The thing I'm not sure about is whether he is ignoring (intentionally) or missing (unintentionally).Y wrote:
Read the whole sentence please. I'm not the only one who thinks so.Near wrote:
This is your opinion. I have something I want to say once Sammich responds to my question.Y wrote:2. As been pointed before me, you give priority to a somewhat irrelevant action, while ignoring completely one which is much more relevant.
Simply misunderstanding. Not a scumtell i think.Y wrote:
You used it as if XReyoX agreed with you that it's a test. You misrepresented his words as if he was supporting you, while he was actually questioning you.XReyoX wrote:Near:
Test?
1)We have more than 2 weeks until the end of the day.Y wrote:You're at L-2. We're not lynching you yet, but you're not giving me any good reason not to do so.
2)He is very active and we will be able to get more information out of him if he is scum.
3)We need to wait for more people to respond to this.
Near:
You said sammich has passed your test already. Then why do we have to wait for more responses from him?-
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No, not really. What i think is lying about the diceroll achieve nothing in favour for the scum. It probably means he is a stupid liar only.Near wrote:
XReyoX, this is what I think. If sammich has lied about the dice thing, he is very likely to be a scum. Do you not agree?XReyoX wrote:Near:
Why is it soo soo sooo important that you need to know whether sammich lied about his dicevote?-
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I brought up the idea that I think sammich lied, but I don't think i started the investigation. I'm curious to know about it because when I first saw sammich's huge stunning post about how fair his diceroll is and saw that he did it in 1-2 minutes, it made me think "lol, sure, in 1 minute".jerubbaal wrote:UnvoteXRX, I'm curious why you're dissing this whole investigation now. You did bring it up in the first place.
I'm asking to end this because people are only commenting on it and Near is like" We NEED to find out if sammich has lied about his dice. If he has he MUST be scum" which is not not true. Then now people are saying "Near IS scum because he is attacking sammich for his diceroll" which again I don't agree is a reliable piece of evidence that indicate he is scum. I'm sorry for bringing it up.-
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I agree with this. Thats why I'd choose to lynch a liar over a non-liar if they look equally scummy to me.jerubbaal wrote:Anywho, I for one think it is fairly relevant. If he did make the whole thing up, it shows an over-concern for justifying himself, something more inherent to scum than townies. Not full-proof, but I'd be strongly inclined to think that he was scum if he purely made it up to justify himself. The intricacy/inanity of it inclines me to believe that it was made up.-
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It means you have to re-think about your logic and playstyle. People don't attack you based on nothing, and i doubt all the scums are attacking you. When a town get lynched, the problems usually don't lie on the others, but himself.
Do you really have nothing to comment on other than sammich and his dice?-
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I'm more and more suspicious of sammich's play. He seems to be only focused on himself and is skimming the thread, ignoring majority of the questions that are asked. I'm getting a feeling that he is not scumhunting at all too. He wrote a huge post about how fair his roll was but spend almost no effort in answering his questions. He accussed me for make a big fuss about MP's playstyle and said I could have just said MP is a mudkip instead of all that. And then he credited MP for sparkling discussion. I don't see the logic behind. On one hand he is saying I should stop talking about MP, on the other hand he is saying MP is doing a good job to encourage discussion.-
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