Newbie 569: (Game Over)

[rolandgarros]

/confirm

[rolandgarros]

ohnoes its quitex!! lol i forgot which game you played in before >.< oh well

vote:quitex

because he's blind and can't see my avatar o_O

Vote Count as of post 34:
Claus (2): thevampireofdusseldorf, Chickenfish
Quitex (1): rolandgarros
rolandgarros (1): Battousai
Battousai (1): sonickid01

Not voting (2): Quitex, Claus

With 7 alive it is 4 to lynch.

[rolandgarros]

err i just got back from a hectic day... i'll go read through the topic and come up with a post later... just letting you know i'm still alive......

[rolandgarros]

wait a sec first of all i'm the other IC? o_O i didn't even know until Claus said so xD
anywho yeah as an IC i'll be here to help you guys out...

Alright anywho, my first impression of the game is that vampire is a relatively new player seeking to learn more about the game... For the most part his newbieness is quite legit, I don't see anything wrong with that. Claus may be reading too much into his scumminess, but I don't see much scumminess in Claus either; he seems to be doing his job as IC.

As for fish and sonick, I'm not sure what to make of their fooling around... Not that I mind, of course, it just strikes me as odd.. Not to mention Battousai had a pretty legit point, and I find it interesting that chickenfish would defend sonick on that by FoSing Batt. The fact of the matter is, anyone could have placed that last vote on Claus by putting him in such a dangerous situation, be it a scheming mafia or a misinformed/confused townie. Not to mention, hammering Claus, even with the risk of being caught the next day, is a huge advantage for the mafia, as it eliminates an IC, making it easier for the mafia to subvert the town without an experienced town member, assuming, of course, that Claus is pro-town for the most part. In general, putting anyone at L-1, especially an IC, is a dangerous move on day 1, and I don't see any excuse to defend an L-1.

Chicken, I can see where you are trying to make sense of the situation, but you should be a bit more open to other possibilities. The mafia in this game, I would assume, aren't as stupid as I would like them to be. Otherwise, that would just make things easier for us. In the meanwhile, we must analyze the situation carefully before doing something as dangerous as an L-1.

[rolandgarros]

Hmm what I've noticed is that now sonick FOMS'ed chicken after defending him a few posts later without exactly explaining why other than he's "unsure"... In response to your last question Quitex I would believe that Sonick and Chicken is the most likely scumpair, although I'm a bit hesitant about seeking scumpairs quite early in the game. With regard's to Batt, why Claus didn't get hammered is actually a valid question, and I'll think about the implications of that... I think thats a really good point to make by the way, and I can see where Chicken is right in that sense.

[rolandgarros]

Well you have to take into account the fact that potatoes as opposed to L-1ing has no relevance whatsoever in hunting scum.

[rolandgarros]

You also have to take into account the fact that this repetition of syntax is getting more and more ridiculous by the second o_O

Anywho, putting someone at L-1 can be a valid reason to suspect that someone is scum... Liking potatoes isn't...

And I wasn't saying that you were saying that he was town.. I'm just saying that -quotes second sentence above-

[rolandgarros]

oh vampire the code for quote.. [quote = "name"]blablabla[/quote] without the spaces... should look like this

blablabla

[rolandgarros]

Well first of all

unvote: quitex

because my vote was a random vote to begin with.

With regards to quitex's last vote, looking back on the points he made as well as the points others have made and my own conclusion, I think that his move is quite aggressive, but we can probably get results from it. However, take into account scenario 3c. What if claus doesn't get hammered? Then we're stuck, because that tells us either one of three things, one of which (3c) leaves us with no information gained. That's the only flaw I can see in this aggressive move.

[rolandgarros]

My reflections after reading posts 75 & 76 (posted while I was doing mine)

Claus.......well chickens idea is intriguing and I wouldn't rule it out but QX refers in his post to claus possible scumminess 4 times. My feelings have been leaning towards scum on claus most of the game but I can see his actions against me as reasonable even if I dont agree with it. At times his logic does seem to be a little misguided, so Still a possibility but less likely than

rolandgarros.......taking the random vote off now, has posted not much of decent scum hunting content all game and IMO seems to be biased in defending QX scenario post.

Well first of all unvote: quitex because my vote was a random vote to begin with.

With regards to quitex's last vote, looking back on the points he made as well as the points others have made and my own conclusion, I think that his move is quite aggressive, but we can probably get results from it. However, take into account scenario 3c. What if claus doesn't get hammered? Then we're stuck, because that tells us either one of three things, one of which (3c) leaves us with no information gained. That's the only flaw I can see in this aggressive move.

@rolandgarros
You recycle the word aggressive then say we can probably get results from it.....
so could you please tell me what pro town results you think we could probably get?

Do you still only see one flaw in this move?

Its quite a double standard. With the discussion that's gone on since QX's last post, his gambit has quite in fact canceled itself out. Someone mentioned that by stating that possibility in 3c, then the no one will hammer, and I do think that is quite a valid point. The flaw that I saw is only one flaw I saw at the time, and for the most part I think his gambit is basically invalidated. With that, I don't think that Quitex is surely scum enough to warrant a vote, but he is up there on my list of consideration.

[rolandgarros]

Yes, vampire, and the fact that Quitex unvoted effectively nullifies the gambit. However, we can make a judgment from this unvoting.

Nonetheless, here is my list of possible scum:
1) Sonick
2) CF
3) Quitex

And Quitex, you quoted me in your sig o_O

[rolandgarros]

THATs specifically is the reason. Look: You both are hiding in the fact that no one will be too stupid for hammering. So you get your hands clean when telling that "town is not wanting a lynch and scums won't be able to be called out".

You are going to look mighty silly when it is revealed that I am in fact town (whether it be due to lynched, NK, or end of game) and you see that I am not in fact 'hiding in facts' but 'stating facts'. Unless, of course, 2 of you, sonic, and Claus are scum (which I believe you and Claus are). So either way you either don't know what your talking about, or your getting your frustration about the fact that you haven't been able to lynch anyone out on me by trying to make it look like my problem. It is highly possible there has been no lynch yet because 2 of the people who are high on people's suspicion (you and Claus) are scum.

Very useless post. "you are going to look might silly when I am town". First of all there is no overwhelming pressure that you will be lynched, so there is no point to say this. Plus, as far as I know, saying something to the effect of "you'll be wrong when I'm dead" is a slight scumtell. Any reason why you had to say that? Plus you're not exactly convincing me with your evaluation of Quitex's motives or your last statement, which I'm not even sure means anything.

[rolandgarros]

As for Quitex, Vampire, in my opinion it is either Quitex or CF; however, CF seems more scummy in my opinion for the reasons I have stated before. He hasn't done anything to change my mind; although he has had me reconsider some points, I still don't see how he's 100% town.

As for not voting yet, I have to confess I'm a bit busy lately and I've only been able to barely keep track of this game, so forgive me if my posts seem to be a bit disconnected from each other.

[rolandgarros]

roland yes im picking on you..........only cos I want to hear more from you

Yes, vampire, and the fact that Quitex unvoted effectively nullifies the gambit. However, we can make a judgment from this unvoting.

Nonetheless, here is my list of possible scum:
1) Sonick
2) CF
3) Quitex

About Qx unvoting and making a judgement from it you use the term we......I can make my own judgement on that as can any others but what would your judgement be?

I assume this list was done in order of suspicion. Now you say it is either Qx or CF

As for Quitex, Vampire, in my opinion it is either Quitex or CF; however, CF seems more scummy in my opinion for the reasons I have stated before. He hasn't done anything to change my mind; although he has had me reconsider some points, I still don't see how he's 100% town.

Sonic now seems to have dropped right out of consideration after (if your list was in order) being at the top of your list. You say CF has done little to change your mind, but may I ask if sonic has done anything to change your opinion of him?
You previously linked Sonic to CF so if CF is top suspect for you now then who would you link him to?

Well, Sonic hasn't done anything other than not post; that's probably why I missed him in my last post. Nonetheless, my posts seem really disconnected right now as I can't exactly find the time to reread the whole thread and make a judgment on that. As a result, bear with me until Saturday, as on Saturday I'll have a free day and I'll see what I can do.

[rolandgarros]

Ahh finally

Roland's Long Awaited List of Suspicion

1. CF
2. Quitex (in a close 2nd)
3. Sonic

Okay, first of all, CF, Quitex,

STOP

with your useless bickering. Its not helping the town or your individual cases at all. It is only dragging on the day and stirring up unnecessary emotion.

As for why CF and Quitex are 1st and 2nd on my list, both have posted nothing of any significance of late. Every post has some sarcastic remark or facetious attack or emotion-loaded argument that is meaningless. In my mind, it only makes the two scummier.

Quitex's first gambit is null-and-void, and I don't think it should be brought up for discussion again, as look where its brought us. Absolutely nowhere. Nothing but emotion and facetious remarks. As for my final opinion on it, I do not see his move as pro-town or anti-town. It was neither. It had a flaw that he clearly stated himself, therefore the gambit canceled itself out. It helps neither town nor scum. In fact, it does absolutely nothing. The only thing that could have possibly happened is that no one would hammer because of the ramifications of placing the hammer, therefore nothing would have happened. It might have been a nice idea at first, but it failed. Miserably. And now we had this string of posts between CF and QX in which they insult each other. Not good. Get it together, you two.

As for why CF beats out QX, but only barely, in my list, CF just seems very cloudy in his posts, more so than QX. His posts have a lot of words, but ultimately mean nothing. He says a lot trying to defend himself, but its not convincing me at all. To me he seems to try pretty hard to get the suspicion off of himself, even more so than QX. If you want to change my opinion, post something of substance and maybe I'll see things differently.

As for QX, you're not off the hook. You're guilty of the same things as CF, just to a slightly lesser extent. Like CF, I want to see a post of substance that is emotion-free and actually provides insight from you. Otherwise, I have no other motive to remove suspicion.

Sonick has stayed part of my suspicion since the beginning, mainly because he does not seem to carry any opinion whatsoever, instead relying on what other people say and changing his suspicion accordingly. While he may be a noob, in which case I give him the benefit of the doubt (which is why he's 3rd), I think he could do a bit better than this. His connection with some players (namely CF and Claus) is a bit too suspicious to ignore and this is why he's on my list.

As for Claus, Batt, and especially Vampire, I find that you three actually generate useful discussion and as thus seem very pro-town from me. Nonetheless, IGMEOY.

In the end:

vote: CF

MFOS: QX

I want to see some useful posts from you both.

P.S. Sorry about the absence; I'll try to post more regularly in the future

[rolandgarros]

Interesting idea, vampire. You know, looking back at your previous posts, especially your first posts, what did you intend to get by playing the newbie card? Because as demonstrated by your other posts, you are quite far from being one.

Either way, I'm looking forward to hearing their defensive posts.

[rolandgarros]

Alright then, sounds legit, I'll trust you on that one. Still, however, IGMEOY.

[rolandgarros]

We're going to have to wait for a post from each of them sans emotion/facetious arguments before we can make a final decision on who to lynch today, as far as I know.

[rolandgarros]

Quitex that's not helping your case at all. All has not been told, all you've said so far is quite useless because it is nothing but emotion and a response to CF's emotion. It doesn't tell us anything. All I'm asking for is one clear post defending your position. Its up to you to figure out what you're defending yourself from.

[rolandgarros]

I'm here what do you want me to say o_O

[rolandgarros]

Oh well I'm letting you newbs play it out and I'll only step in when absolutely necessary. However, if you want a comment on this last page then I'll do so; I haven't really followed the thread since my last post.

[rolandgarros]

Do I think it more likely? What exactly do you mean? And, to really make a judgment on putting someone at L-1 to gain a reaction, you really have to see how its worked before. In this game, people have put others at L-1 to "get a reaction" and we can obviously see how well its worked. The only reason, based upon prior experience of this game, why we should put someone at L-1 is not to gain a reaction but rather because you truly feel that this person if scum. If you really feel that Quitex is scum, then I won't question your vote, because I'm sure you've taken every single thing into consideration.

About the whole thinking as scum/town thing; I don't follow what Quitex is trying to say here, I think his logic is quite off. However, I don't see anything in his bad logic that gives up scumminess, unless you can point something out.

What I don't like, just for the sake of pointing it out, is this, however:

Ha in fact I want to lynch all three of you and also the other three as well but I guess that would make me a serial killer which would be a lot more fun than silly town. I am realy not sure of anyones towniness in this game except mine. You all look like filty swine fondling dirtbags to me........and I realy cant decide on who is the scumiest of them all.

I didn't really see a need for posting that, and based upon your general pro-town feel earlier, this is quite non sequitur; I would like to inquire upon your intentions in posting this.

Other than that, however, nothing's really happened to change my opinion of the game, and although I should probably reconsider my vote on CF, its not like he's at -1 anyways, so I don't feel the need to unvote him now.

[rolandgarros]

It can be taken both ways vampire. You can say as much as possible to seem as pro-town as possible, and yet saying a lot doesn't mean anything. You can say something of not much note and let the noobs get on with it and still that doesn't mean either way. I notice that you say a lot and keep things moving, but do you say too much? Speaking little doesn't have to mean anything. Its your newbs game, I'll only step in when you need a question or when there's something I feel the need to comment upon. Otherwise, all your loudness and pity arguments that don't say anything mean absolutely nothing to me, as they convey absolutely no info, or at least less than what you are making it out to be. The motives behind certain actions, however, are very interesting.

unvote:CF

until further notice.

[rolandgarros]

@Qx, roland is your scum partner and as I said the link between you and claus is a ruse.

This kind of assuming is very dangerous for the town. We're partners because I say his name a lot? Because I talk about him in my posts? Iunno what to say about that "/

I'll refuse to vote until I hear Claus' opinion, that way everyone's opinion is accounted for and we won't rush a lynch without the consultation of the other IC. Not that I have a clear suspect in mind anyways.

[rolandgarros]

I'm rather lost agian by you Qx you say I am one of the most pro town players but you vote for me then add

To clarify: Yes, the last post is what I feel the best. Yes, a scum can be pro-town sometimes. So the fact that he is in my list of the most pro-town players doesn't mean that he's inmune to the scum-infection that 2 people in this game has.

So I can be one of the most protown players but also be a scum who wants to kill the town............ok I wont argue with that. It seems to me like a very tenuous reason to vote for me but when you havent got much to go on you use whatever you can come up with.

I don't see how this logic is invalid. There are two ways of playing scum in my opinion: laying low and letting the town lynch themselves, or saying a lot (to the point of posting every other post), in an attempt to see pro-town. Make your own judgment from this. And yes, I realize that I'm more or less playing the former, but that's my style of play, so make whatever judgments you will.

And people have to stop getting irate and insulting in this game. Its only a game, theres no need to insult anyone's intelligence.

[rolandgarros]

if we wish to lynch as a team thing as Qx suggested then you would put Qx at L-1 no worries as it is obvious that he is the most suspicious

There are many things wrong with this statement.

[rolandgarros]

Because democracy is overrated.

[rolandgarros]

Because democracy is overrated.

I'm inclined to disagree with this, but I'm also disagreeing with vampire.
vampire, voting with the masses is not actually democracy, it is being led. If you let yourself be led in this game, you'll find you don't get very far, as eventually you just turn into a bandwagonner. Democracy is what this game is - everybody votes for who they want lynched, and the person with the most votes is lynched. So, in ths game, democracy isn't overrated, but it certainly isn't what vampire is making it out to be.
Don't vote because people tell you to, or because everyone else is - vote because you want to see the person you're voting for lynched

Nailed it CF. I was criticizing the aspect of democracy that you stated in your post: unrestricted democracy paves the way for the tyranny of the majority. Out of 3 votes on any one person, any two of them could be scum. Thus, voting based on what everyone else thinks is highly dangerous and a big mistake.

Note I have nothing against democracy, just the aspect that CF picked up on. I prefer a republic (aka representative democracy) instead, although I have no idea how this is relevant to this game, so I'll stop now.

[rolandgarros]

The thing is that the chart means absolutely nothing. It is only an assessment of what people thought at that time, and as such it only represents thus. It does not directly take into account the actual scummyness of the person (i.e. scummy acts, etc.). And at the very least, the chart is only a snapshot of player opinion. Not a continuous model of scummyness.

By relying on such a chart, you are relying on what other people say and thing, or more accurately said and thought. You still do not move away from the concept of tyranny of the majority.

[rolandgarros]

Town may be the majority in number, but number isn't everything.

[rolandgarros]

It's just like an opinion poll. Its not the same as basing your opinion on scummy acts, because there is a middle man between those scummy acts and your evaluation: the player. And if every player spoke truth, thought with clear logic, or or had pro-town intentions, we'd have a reliable method here. But we don't.

I suggest a different way of finding scum. And this point is getting off topic, no use in debating the chart any further. I don't see that it works, so I won't use it. Feel free to use it if you so passionately intend to do so, but I won't take it as a credible reason of suspicion.

[rolandgarros]

You've only got half the picture, but I'll refrain from pointing out what you're missing. In other news, will do with my own method. I'm not comfortable with relying on other people's opinions to form my own.

[rolandgarros]

You forgot the second part of my strategy.

[rolandgarros]

You criticize me getting involved and then say you want me to help out. I'm guessing pointing out the flaws in your method isn't helping out? Well, of course it isn't helping

you

out, but that was hardly ever my intention.

[rolandgarros]

Think for yourself.

[rolandgarros]

Actually my last post was quite helpful.

Double entendre

, anyone?

[rolandgarros]

I'm sorry if you see things that way, but I believe I am being quite helpful to the town. Just bear with me CF, I am not finished with vampire yet. Once I feel like I am finished, if you desire an explanation of my motive, I will explain every single thing. For now, however, let me finish my work on vampire. And by finish, I do not mean lynching; that is quite far from my intention. If I were scum, there would be much easier ways of taking out vamp, not that that is my intention at all in this case.

And please, do think for yourself. I don't think that was clear in my

double entendre

.

[rolandgarros]

That has no relevance whatsoever on my point.

[rolandgarros]

Nor is it a good piece of advice, either. I think you may have meant something else, but what you stated is far from pro-town.

[rolandgarros]

roland I have no idea how you are going to wriggle out of this but I am keen to see a worm in action

As do I.

[rolandgarros]

I don't have enough fingers to count the fallacies in that last post.

[rolandgarros]

@ CF, I am very sorry, but since when I am attacking you? I just made a question and I did not told at any time or any form that you're scum. Was a simple question.
What roland is doing is quite obvious: Scumhunting. What Vampire is doing is quite obvious: Scumhiding.
What you're doing is quite obvious: being useless to the game.

Okay this didn't make much sense, I must admit.

[rolandgarros]

Reading over rolands post the only helpful IC points I've noted him making are telling me how to quote and all the others are helping out Qx.

Oh, but you only see with eyes and hear with the heart.

[rolandgarros]

What roland is doing is quite obvious: Scumhunting. What Vampire is doing is quite obvious: Scumhiding.

Could you please back these up with something?

On this point I do agree with vampire. As flattering as it is, QX, its far from what I want to hear.

[rolandgarros]

First of all, I think you meant "pseudo". And from a newb who prides himself on his perceptiveness, I would expect more as well.

[rolandgarros]

I need a defense? Last I knew I myself was quite on the contrary.

[rolandgarros]

Would I need to explain my actions? And I feel no pressure whatsoever. The pressure lies elsewhere, although you may not see it.

[rolandgarros]

My intention is to teach you something. But so far you're not learning. And continue to call me BS if you wish, I take no offense whatsoever. I don't find it conducive to the town though.

[rolandgarros]

Can I point out that we were actually close to a lynch, then you guys went off on 2 pages of one line posts about nothing. vampire, you said you can back out of it at any time: back out. You guys aren't helping us find scum, so just stop. Same goes roland, if you want to teach vampire something I think you've probably made whatever point you were trying to make - so come out with it so we know what you were doing. Otherwise stop wasting time...

Good point CF. Although I do not see my posts as "nothing", I sense by vampire's adamant behavior that I'm not exactly going anywhere with this. Nonetheless, I don't think we can lynch anyone until everyone else reports back in this thread aka claus sonic and batt. Also, I do not feel that we have sufficient information to come up with a lynch. But I do think that I am getting more and more by the page.

[rolandgarros]

Well that was a little faster than expected.. I come home to find Claus' uber post and a lynch on Quitex already... We'll just have to wait and see what QX really was, although I was not ready on lynching him for being stupid. I don't see that as a valid reason to vote, but we'll see what happens.

In the meantime, before I leave for three days until Friday, I would like to explain my series of cryptic posts. Basically, I was just making vampire uncomfortable and seeing how

he

would react. There are some points where he didn't react the best but I felt that he handled the situation satisfactorily. While I was unable to post a few days earlier, I noticed that Vampire was taking control of the town and moving the game along, maybe too much. I felt that the best way to test him was to make him uncomfortable, and I think he did okay, although not brilliantly.

We'll just have to see how this lynch comes up.

Otherwise, I'm hoping my gambit with Vampire helps out for D2.

And I'll see you guys in three days o_O
It'll be night so I'll have plenty of time.

[rolandgarros]

Well explaining back then would have ruined the effect/intent of my gambit. I figured that you guys would want to know

eventually

why I was so cryptic o_O

[rolandgarros]

Ermm he was a what?

I posted before checking what role he had.

[rolandgarros]

vote: sonick

FOS: Batt

Right now I'm more or less inclined to think that Vampire is not scum. If he was, I think he would have broken down or at least have been more annoyed and uncomfortable than he seemed to be after my mysterious actions.

The reason I voted for sonick is because I still do not like the way he's carrying himself this game; his "I had a weird feeling that QX was cop" post really stands out and seems like a poor attempt to make himself look more pro-town than he really is. Not to mention the only person that really didn't like sonick was Claus, and who was killed last night?

My FOS on Batt is purely gut feeling; it should probably be more of an IGMEOY but Batt seems to be quite sneaky as a possible scum. Nonetheless, this is only slight suspicion.

I'll refrain from commenting on CF until later.

[rolandgarros]

Ahh good point CF forgot that we only had 5 people left.

unvote:sonick

MFHOS: sonick

Sorry about that, just came back from retreat.

[rolandgarros]

Letting the newbs play it out? I know your an IC and you are trying to get the noobs to learn the ropes, but doing nothing, you might as well not even be in the game. Plus you weren't away for 4 days, but you said you were just not following the game for 4 days. What if there was a problem, would you be able to help with it?

Well, was there a major problem?

This is just something I caught, NOT a real reason for scumminess, its just nit-picking, but interpret as you will the bolded parts. He's saying he's playing scum by laying low.

Because I would tell the world that I'm scum if I am one? Do tell me there's another interpretation of what I said -__-

I don't see the merits of this gambit, could you explain them? What if he didn't react satisfactory, what would that tell you and what would be unsatisfactory?

Unsatisfactory would be reacting quite radically to my gambit. In other words, I tried to make him uncomfortable so as to shake his confidence; if he had lost his composure completely, then that would tell me that something clicked after being forced out of his comfortable spot. If he had lost his composure, then that would tell me that either he is very annoyed scum or unconfident townie.

My gambit, while it can be seen as a scumhunting tactic, a rather nonconventional one at that, is more of a challenge to Vamp. He was basically taking control of the thread, and someone needed to challenge his confidence to see if he would buckle and break or at the very least take the game from being solely in his hands and spread it to more people and get more people into the game. I think it has worked because your post Batt as well as the responses to the banter between me and Vamp have actually added to the game.

What was wrong with the above post by Vamp?

Only one, and that is the latter statement. My exaggeration is still part of my gambit.

posts after lynch= scummy. You were distancing yourself from the lynch. That points to scum in my book.

Distancing myself from the lynch that I had no part of? I never voted nor did I ever see QX as number one scum. The highest he ever got was number two, but after his posts that made no sense at all, I figured that QX was just out of his mind. Being retarded doesn't exactly equal 100% scummy. In fact, I think I was the only person giving QX the benefit of the doubt.

Then today you voted. A vote, if both scum were on at same time and you or sonic were not scum, could have resulted in end game. Then you backtrack saying it was a mistake.

Because it was a mistake. I came back from 3 days up in the mountains running a retreat at around 9 PM yesterday. I posted at around 10 or 11 PM. I'd like to think pure exhaustion and lack of sleep would be the reason behind that mistake.

[rolandgarros]

Well if you see it from the context that sonick may be scum, then the choice on claus would make a lot of sense, seeing as claus is the only one that really pursued sonick for a while.

[rolandgarros]

Whoa!!! Haha I just realized I've been playing mafiascum for exactly a year now ;D

Oh and I'll post a more holistic analysis after I finish editing this video.

[rolandgarros]

Ermm you guys I realize that I'm not really being helpful haha.. I've been away/busy the past few days and well I'll try to reread when I have time. Other than that though, perhaps it might be more helpful to you guys if I was replaced?

[rolandgarros]

Actually looking at 378 I'm not willing to go with it at all. It makes the assumption that everyone is thinking exactly what Vampire is thinking and that anyone who doesn't like it is scum; it also tries to appease Batt by removing him from the list of suspicion. Its a very risky move and one that I don't exactly like. As a townie, I can sort of see why he would come up with this, but more clearly I can see how Vampire is more of a scum thinking he's got the wool over our eyes enough so that he can pull off such a gambit and be trusted. But I do concede that that last observation was quite shaky at the best too.

Haha right now I'm really thinking that its a good thing I haven't exactly followed this thread closely because it gives me the advantage of looking at the gambit for what it is and not being influenced by previous posts. Although I'm not so sure if thats so much of an advantage or not.

[rolandgarros]

Mmm I think in your case thats the best way of handling this situation because you're more in tune with this game's trends than I am, but yeah definitely take this gambit with a grain of salt. I'll be watching as well as should everyone else thats not Vampire or Batt... Batt should watch too I guess... Because this gambit is by far the most risky one I've seen this game... It involves 2 key assumptions that in and of themselves don't have much merit in a situation that involves lynch or lose...

[rolandgarros]

Mmm about your point with Batt I think I might have misread your post as saying "assume me and Batt as town" but I think rereading it I might have been wrong. What were you trying to say about Batt?

The part about taking you as townie and assuming that the scum is going to try and rubbish this therefore anyone who rubbishes it is more likely scum are two key assumptions in your argument.

As for the opportune timing, taken from the light that you are scum, which I'm not saying you are, just saying its a possible perspective, this is not so much "blowing it" with such a bold move but rather taking advantage of the trust you've built.

[rolandgarros]

Yeah I do agree with your very last statement about it being opportune as town and scum; in fact that's exactly what I was saying with an emphasis on the scum part. The reason I can't take your gambit fully is because while its a good townie move, its also a good scum move, and I'm hoping that people take it for what it is and consider both sides of the coin before we move on with or without it.

[rolandgarros]

Alright so I think we're settled with who's going to follow along and who isn't. I think vamp could go ahead and proceed with this gambit of his... I'm interested to see where he takes this.

[rolandgarros]

Interesting development... Will post after orthodontist appointment

[rolandgarros]

Well at this point, with Vamp growing more and more aggressive without the support of the town, I'm willing to place an FOS on him. However, these last few posts have been controlled by CF and Sonic, and seeing how they are still considered to be a slightly likely scumpair, I'll wait for Batt to say something more, but really even his last post doesn't shine too well for you Vamp. The only thing that makes me think twice is that if you are scum, is there someone within this game that could be considered your scum partner? Because CF and Sonic both seem equally against you, and Batt is against you as well, not to mention I haven't really liked your go-it-alone stance since my own gambit.

[rolandgarros]

I very well think that you have a strong case here vampire. As opposed as others are to you, I bring up a point I made in my last post and in your response to that post that you are basically acting by yourself with the rest of the "town" against you. If you were scum, the tide isn't so against you that your partner would risk a bus, so more likely than not you're town. In other words, you still sound logical and not insane like QX was; I don't think that if you were scum your partner would bus you at this point. CF on the other hand with his case has much support, and that is where the deciding factor for me comes in. Your last post (the long one) really nails the coffin in... So I'm really hoping I'm right on this one and that I don't make a mistake...

vote: CF

[rolandgarros]

And damn its 3 AM so sorry if that last post didn't make much sense rhetorical-wise

[rolandgarros]

Vote: CF

Oh jesus this makes me nervous

[rolandgarros]

hahahahahahahaha i thought Batt's sudden vote meant something >.<

and i hope thats a lesson for you vamp ;D

[rolandgarros]

I should have waited for Batt lol