Twilight

[SensFan]

During Twilight, which is the norm?

* The lynch is final, anyone can talk freely
* The lynch is final, anyone but the lynched can speak freely
* The lynch is final, no game-related discussion
*The lynch is not final until the mod makes it so

[Peers]

From what I've seen, it's #3 most commonly, although some games do #1.

[Thok]

The short answer is "Whatever the mod thinks is best for his game".

[Mr. Flay]

The shorter answer is "Whatever the mod put in the rules." - two less words, booyah!

Seriously though, the standard on MafiaScum if the mod doesn't specify is usually "the lynch is final, anyone can talk freely". Since in most games the players can't actually know if the lynch was successful until the mod posts the death scene, anything else is incredibly hard to adjudicate...

[SensFan]

Can I assume #4 is

never

rarely an option?

[Kelly Chen]

What does that mean, that you can unvote even after there's a majority?

I'm not sure I've seen that.

I've speculated that it could be a good way to make quicklynching an unviable strategy when the game starts at lylo etc.

But there's too much ability for the mod to be partial to one side or another, unless the length of twilight is written into the rules...

[Thesp]

What does that mean, that you can unvote even after there's a majority?

I'm not sure I've seen that.

I've seen a mod try to do this because he'd seen a couple of people whine about quicklynches. He was shouted down by players after it drug the game on unecessarily. It's terrible.

I'm more a fan of "lynch is final, free talk allowed" because players can misread votes, and players often (un?)intentionally break the no talking rule. I was in a newbie game where I was quicklynched as cop by someone who turned out to be town. Someone who was scum made a post after twilight to indict this player, and I thought it was scummy to the core, but refrained from my comment because of the rules. It drove me batty.

[Mr. Flay]

What does that mean, that you can unvote even after there's a majority?

I'm not sure I've seen that.

Going with the theory that the moderator is just there to enforce the Rules of the Game, I'd have a problem with lynches being able to be 'reversed' if the mod doesn't show up before one of the players. I tend to envision quicklynch/endgame scenarios as being the remaining scum stringing up one person, then

immediately

turning on the rest now that the numbers are in their favor, and gunning them down.

[bigAl]

What if you're a cop (with a couple investigation results) and you get lynched before you have a chance to reveal your investigations. Should the cop be able to post his investigation results in the twilight? I'd say definitely not. It effectively confirms some people unfairly. I'd say 'no' to the first point in cases like that.

I'd vote for #2 most of the time, or maybe #3 depending on the mod.

[Mr. Flay]

Problem is, even if you state out front that twilight posting is forbidden by the lynchee, you can't 'unmake' a post by that Cop. Do you have to void the entire game at that point?

I take it as a gallows confession/declaration, which is why forbidding the lynchee to speak before the Mod kills them doesn't make sense to me. YMMV.

::edit:: Now, I could see an argument that it's

unethical

to reveal things in twilight, and I always take anything said then with a grain of salt, but...

[IH]

A combination of number 1 and number 4. Discussion continues until the mod confirms it is a lynch. (See texas justice where we thought we lynched like three times <.<)

[Seol]

During Twilight, which is the norm?

* The lynch is final, anyone can talk freely
* The lynch is final, anyone but the lynched can speak freely
* The lynch is final, no game-related discussion
* The lynch is not final until the mod makes it so

Technically

I'm a 4, simply because there

might

be a vote-nullifier, a vote-stealer, a Mayor, or whatever. Until it's confirmed someone's got a lynch majority, then it's not technically confirmed it's Twilight, though.

I see no reason not to let people talk at any point where the thread is open, unless there's a strong mechanical or flavour reason why not. People can talk until I show up, confirm there's a lynch, declare it night and close the thread. In fact, I don't even recognise the term Twilight in my games - it's day until it's night.

[Erg0]

What if you're a cop (with a couple investigation results) and you get lynched before you have a chance to reveal your investigations. Should the cop be able to post his investigation results in the twilight? I'd say definitely not. It effectively confirms some people unfairly. I'd say 'no' to the first point in cases like that.

I'd vote for #2 most of the time, or maybe #3 depending on the mod.

This actually had the potential to occur recently in Open 46. Knowing what was likely to happen, I tried to keep an eye on the thread and lock it as soon as I saw the hammer in order to prevent a "deathbed confession". As Flay said, there's not really much you can do if the cop decides to post results after being lynched, but as a mod I will always try to prevent it from occurring since I think it falls firmly into the "bad play" category. In this case, the cop had plenty of chances to claim before being lynched anyway.

[Seol]

What if you're a cop (with a couple investigation results) and you get lynched before you have a chance to reveal your investigations. Should the cop be able to post his investigation results in the twilight? I'd say definitely not. It effectively confirms some people unfairly. I'd say 'no' to the first point in cases like that.

I'd vote for #2 most of the time, or maybe #3 depending on the mod.

This actually had the potential to occur recently in Open 46. Knowing what was likely to happen, I tried to keep an eye on the thread and lock it as soon as I saw the hammer in order to prevent a "deathbed confession". As Flay said, there's not really much you can do if the cop decides to post results after being lynched, but as a mod I will always try to prevent it from occurring since I think it falls firmly into the "bad play" category. In this case, the cop had plenty of chances to claim before being lynched anyway.

It's not the mod's place to decide what's "good play" or "bad play". Bad

form

, perhaps, but that should be accounted for in the rules. I don't see anything wrong with a "deathbed confession", either mechanically or flavourfully - but equally I don't feel I have any responsibility as mod to allow some time for discussion after a lynch is reached.

[Oman]

If I'm scum and I get lynched I'm gonna do my best to draw out the cop/doc/other powerrole by posting things. I prefer not to falseclaim after I've been lynched, but I have done if for giggles.

[Erg0]

What if you're a cop (with a couple investigation results) and you get lynched before you have a chance to reveal your investigations. Should the cop be able to post his investigation results in the twilight? I'd say definitely not. It effectively confirms some people unfairly. I'd say 'no' to the first point in cases like that.

I'd vote for #2 most of the time, or maybe #3 depending on the mod.

This actually had the potential to occur recently in Open 46. Knowing what was likely to happen, I tried to keep an eye on the thread and lock it as soon as I saw the hammer in order to prevent a "deathbed confession". As Flay said, there's not really much you can do if the cop decides to post results after being lynched, but as a mod I will always try to prevent it from occurring since I think it falls firmly into the "bad play" category. In this case, the cop had plenty of chances to claim before being lynched anyway.

It's not the mod's place to decide what's "good play" or "bad play". Bad

form

, perhaps, but that should be accounted for in the rules. I don't see anything wrong with a "deathbed confession", either mechanically or flavourfully - but equally I don't feel I have any responsibility as mod to allow some time for discussion after a lynch is reached.

I couldn't think of the right way to put that - I agree, "bad form" is closer to what I meant.

[Scigatt]

IMO, as I like to say it,

All's fair in twilight

. So long as none of the game or site rules are broken and the votes-unvotes are uncounted, any player(including the one to be lynched) can make any number of posts to advance their position. This includes but is not limited to claims, fake claims, counterclaims, announcing scumbuddies(real or fake). The use and reading of twilight posts should be a part of every players tactical tool-belt.

[XReyoX]

In my game,

* The lynch is final, anyone but the lynched can speak freely

Why don't you do a poll?

[Lawrencelot]

Players may talk until the thread is locked, unless stated otherwise.

[XReyoX]

I think it is quite important that the lynchee shouldn't be allowed to talk once he is hammered, because a cop can reveal his results knowing he will certainly die but before he actually die.

[Seol]

I think it is quite important that the lynchee shouldn't be allowed to talk once he is hammered, because a cop can reveal his results knowing he will certainly die but before he actually die.

So?

I don't see why this, or any instance of "last words", is a bad thing.

[XReyoX]

I'd prefer having the player decide whether he should roleclaim and reveal his targets/results before the lynch. I don't think players who don't want to reveals stuff unless he is certain of his death should try and catch the twilight zone for his last words. Unless the twilight is alway at the same length.

[gorckat]

I'm planning on using:

-Until I have counted the votes and posted their death scene and role reveal, all players including the lynchee may continue to post. Once I have posted a vote count indicating a player is lynched, they are dead and are not to post anything else at all, not even a "Bah!" post.

I thought this over and decided its not the player's job to decide the day is over. It's the mod that locks the thread and posts the death scene, role reveal, night deadline, etc...

Toss in bungled vote counts, missed unvotes or w/e and the players should just play the game and PM the mod if they think there's an issue.

[Mr Stoofer]

This threadestablished that if the Mod doesn't say anything to the contrary in the rules, then players may talk freely in Twilight.

[Seol]

Toss in bungled vote counts, missed unvotes or w/e and the players should just play the game and PM the mod if they think there's an issue.

That, and also the possibility of private votes, lynch cancellers, varying lynch thresholds etc - mechanics that affect when you have a lynch which not all players are aware of, and are perfectly viable mechanics - and you can see that even a perfect player is occasionally going to be wrong about when you have a lynch.

edit: This is why only the mod should ever declare when there's a lynch majority, which means only the mod can say if you have Twilight. Unless Twilight's a

mechanic,

it's an arbitrary and unhelpful concept.