Break my Cult-focused semiopen roleset

[Norinel]

So I'm thinking I might run a semiopen game (Mod posts all the possible roles & interactions up front, but the exact composition of the game is unknown) where the main point is that the primary enemy is one or more cults, with SK(s) thrown in for nightkills, and no Mafia. I figured I may as well post the rolelist for public feedback before I try too hard to figure out how to balance things.

Balance-wise, in a small/low-powered setup I might allow the town to lynch twice each Day after a one-lynch Day-start; in a bigger setup, I'd give the Cult Leader(s) immunity to the first nightkill on them and start at Night.

I'd rather this thread not devolve into a discussion as to why cults are bad; I tried to address some of the reasons people throw around in this setup by the way everyone knows up front that there is at least one cult, and if you get recruited by the winning cult, you win.

Cult Leader

You are a [cultname] Cult Leader. Every night, you may attempt to recruit one player into your cult or kill one player. Once you have fellow cultists, you may discuss with them at night, but the ultimate decision and responsibility to PM is yours. If you die, the cult may kill but not recruit.

You win when your cult makes up the entire town, or such a situation is inevitable.

Clarifications: The only thing that grants protection from nightkills is being the SK. If multiple Cults recruit the same unprotected player at the same time, it acts as a nightkill attempt on that player. If an unprotected player is culted and nightkilled at the same time, the recruitment fails. Everyone already in a cult is immune to cult recruitment. Cult recruits are revealed as [cultname] Cultist, previously [oldrole].

Cult Recruit

You have been recruited by the [cultname] Cult, led by [name] and also composed of [names]. You may communicate with the rest of the cult at night. You lose all other abilities you previously had,

except

that if you were a Mason, you can still talk to your fellow Masons at night.

You win when your cult makes up the entire town, or such a situation is inevitable.

Serial Killer

You are a Serial Killer. Each night, you may kill someone. You are immune to investigations, nightkills, and cult recruitment.

You win when you are the last person standing.

Clarification: All kills are simply listed as "killed", with no way to distinguish the doer.

Steadfast Mason

You are a Steadfast Mason; the rest of your group is

• . You know that everyone in your group is pro-town... for now. You may communicate with any living members at night.
  
  You are immune to cult recruitment; however, this does not necessarily apply to everyone in your group.
  
  You win when any threats to the town are eliminated.

Mason

You are a Mason; the rest of your group is

• . You know that everyone in your group is pro-town... for now. You may communicate with any living members at night.
  
  Some members of your group may be immune to cult recruitment. However, you are not one of them.
  
  You win when any threats to the town are eliminated, or if you join a cult before its takeover is inevitable.

Clarifications: If a Mason is recruited, the masonry is not notified and they can still communicate with fellow members.

Inquisitor (Cop)

You are an Inquisitor. Each night, you may investigate one other player and determine their cult status as of the end of the night. You are not necessarily sane.

You win when any threats to the town are eliminated, or if you join a cult before its takeover is inevitable.

Clarifications: Sanity is not revealed on death. Gets "cult" or "not cult". Cult leaders are not immune.

Alarmist (Doc)

You are an Alarmist. Each night, you may protect one other player from any cult or cults that may attempt to recruit them.

You win when any threats to the town are eliminated, or if you join a cult before its takeover is inevitable.

Clarifications: Nobody is notified of a successful protection (The cult is told that the recruitment failed, but not why). If multiple cults target a person who an Alarmist is protecting, nothing happens. An Alarmist may not self-protect, and is not immune to culting unless protected by another.

Vigilante

You are a Vigilante. Once in the game, you may attempt to kill another player at night.

You win when any threats to the town are eliminated, or if you join a cult before its takeover is inevitable.

Steadfast Townie

You are a Steadfast Townie. You are immune to recruitment, but have no other abilities.

You win when any threats to the town are eliminated.

Townie

You are a Townie. You have no special abilities.

You win when any threats to the town are eliminated, or if you join a cult before its takeover is inevitable.

[PokerFace]

Your vig is only able to kill once in the game?

Can someone use their skills after being recruited?

Being a steadfast townie or mason I think would have dificulty winning depending on how many SK's and cults you add.

A 3 sk end game would be interesting but it would end in a draw

[Iammars]

A 3 sk end game would be interesting but it would end in a draw

Unless they wanted to no lynch and try their luck that they don't circle-kill.

But I doubt that he would put 3 SKs in the game anyway, and if he did, there's little chance that they'd all survive to the endgame.

[Yosarian2]

Very interesting setup.

I'm not sure why the Vig can only kill once per game; these cults seem a little stronger then normal, what with the fact that after the recruiter's dead they're still a killing mafia group, and a little extra pro-town firepower is probably a good idea
.
What happens if the vig gets culted?

Also, I assume that if you're already in a cult, you can't be recruited into a rival cult, right?

[petroleumjelly]

*eye-twitch*

[Norinel]

Comments first, then the answers to specific questions. (All of the answers were in the top post somewhere, so I won't tweak it too much just yet)

Being a steadfast townie or mason I think would have dificulty winning depending on how many SK's and cults you add.

The idea is that the town has a fighting chance. But not having the opportunity to jump ship is the drawback of the Steadfast roles.

I'm not sure why the Vig can only kill once per game; these cults seem a little stronger then normal, what with the fact that after the recruiter's dead they're still a killing mafia group, and a little extra pro-town firepower is probably a good idea

The general philosophy is weaker town roles, but probably more of them. All of the town roles in this game have a significant disadvantage compared to their Mafia counterpart, and an unlimited-kill vig essentially doubles the town's lynching power, which'd pretty much make the vig the cult's top priority target. I might allow the possibility of N-shot vigs in a large game.

Having the option to kill every night in place of recruit and after the leader dies might be too strong, but I like the decision factor of the almost certain and moderately helpful nightkill vs. the preventable but very helpful recruit.

*eye-twitch*

There's a slot with your name on it.

Your vig is only able to kill once in the game?

Can someone use their skills after being recruited?

Yes, no. (Except Masons can still nighttalk, otherwise it'd be obvious they were recruited)

What happens if the vig gets culted?

He loses the kill.

Also, I assume that if you're already in a cult, you can't be recruited into a rival cult, right?

Yes.

[PokerFace]

A 3 sk end game would be interesting but it would end in a draw

Unless they wanted to no lynch and try their luck that they don't circle-kill.

But I doubt that he would put 3 SKs in the game anyway, and if he did, there's little chance that they'd all survive to the endgame.

You have a point. I doubt he would put that many in to. Circle kills like that are amusing, but unfortunatly I was refering to the fact that the pms above say the SK is imune to kills. Would 2 Sk's vote last one off?

I think the SK's have quite an advantage and with 1-shot vigs and cult kills not hurting them.

[oEJo]

I like the idea. I like cults, even though alot of people here despise them.

Some numbers would be a good help. How many cults would there be? Two?

Once the cult recruiter dies, I think that should be it. The cult wouldn't necessarily suicide, but they'd have to survive with no NK, and no recruiting power from then on. It wouldn't really be that difficult, I don't think. Except a townie/cult members with no leader/cult members with no leader would be an interesting "endgame," though very unlikely.

[Brutal Assassin]

*eye-twitch*

[kuribo]

I don't think the SKs should be NK immune. SK's are their own team, and it'd be interesting to see them trying to off one another, the townies, and the cultists.

Plus, NK immunity would possibly lead to a draw.

Now, if recruiting the SK results in the recruiting cultist's death, THAT would be interesting... the cultists can't easily reveal to the town who they targetted (the SK) without the town realizing they were the cultists.

[Mr. Flay]

*eye-twitch*

There's a slot with your name on it.

Lemme guess, PJ is the name of one of the Vigilantes?

I agree that the Vigs should be able to kill multiple times (per game, not per night, unless their name is PJ).

NK-immunity in THIS case for SKs gives them way too much chance for a draw. I'd go with maybe 1-time lynch-proof, or a night-skip. One-time NK immunity to prevent a N1 loss is probably a good idea, but eternal is just silly in this context.

And I don't think allowing the

Mafia

Cult to kill at night if they lose their leader works. Instead they become more like an evil Mason Brotherhood.

[Elias_the_thief]

I agree with PJ.

[Norinel]

Yeah, I probably should nerf the anti-town roles a bit... but taking away the cult's killing power makes for some nasty tie cases as written, since I gave the win condition as "everyone, or inevitable". I suppose you could say that the nonkilling cult autowins at 50% if all other killing roles are gone, and if two leader-less cults hit 50% at the same time, both win.

Taking away killing power after the leader dies also has the potential to slow the pace down a bit, but hopefully there'd be enough people dead by that point anyway that the endgame wouldn't drag.

[Thestatusquo]

Sounds like a great game.

[Yosarian2]

Well, the cults ability to kill once the leader get killed *works*, but it's very strong. If the cult recruits twice and then the leader dies, then it's like the town caught the bad guy but then gets a 2 man mafia group added in halfway through a mini game. If you want to do that, I would suggest limiting the cults power otherwise; say, the cult can only act every other night, or something like that.

And btw, I tend to think think a kill every night vig is generally a good idea in a cult game; if the cult gets totally out of control, it can still give the town a chance to come back, and so keeps the game interesting for longer and gives the town more options. A one-shot vig is mostly just a safe claim in a game like this; a multi-shot vig, as you pointed out, probably dosn't want to claim because that'd make him a major cult target.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I think you should add a tracker or watcher to the game. They are cool against cults, but not uber-powerful.

[PokerFace]

hmm...

What would a cult hater (Example:PJ) do if he was given the role of cult recruiter instead in this setup? That might be fun to watch.

_________________
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 0&start=17

[Nemesis]

Claim.

[Norinel]

I would hope that the cult haters wouldn't sign up if the setup doesn't deal with any problems they have.