Newbie 594: (Game Over!)
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gorillaman Goon
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gorillaman Goon
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Atticus wrote:The moderator may not ahve completely randomised the roles. It makes sense to have at least 1 IC scum to make it not too easy for town, and me being the last to confirm does make the most suspicious.
Not that I'm getting at you, but I don't want anybody to be mislead by that post.Mod wrote:13. The setup and roles were 100% randomized.-
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gorillaman Goon
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gorillaman Goon
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Atticus' = Atticus'sAtticus wrote:Please, I'm Atticus. So when something belongs to me, it'd be Atticus's. I am not a number of Atticu. But more importantly, what do you want me to explain? Battousai explains everything in that post. I haven't contributed much. I don't usually, but no, I haven't. As for the whole IC-noob-scum-thing: yes, I should know, and I do know that most mods fully randomise roles. But I don't know anything about bird1111. I expressed instead what I thought Battousai's opinions (not mine) might be, because Nocmen looked like he might start bitching about it.
Battousai was FoSing you in part for the randomising thing, I only wanted to say that it did indeed seem unusual, that I could think of a reason why you might not have understood that, but it wasn't my place to explain your posts for you. Are you saying you were conscious all along that it's standard practice to randomise roles?-
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gorillaman Goon
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gorillaman Goon
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You've misread my posts - neither of those statements are correct.Nocmen wrote:gorillaman ... says Atticus is a bit overdefensive, and then gets into some talk about whether roles are randomized or not.
Battousai wrote:Pot calling the kettle black, eh?Nocmen wrote:As pointed out, you have not made many other posts either.
Tu quoque. If somebody's accused of doing something scummy, that isn't invalidated just because the accuser has done the same thing. If you agree that it's suspicious, mark them both down, if not, neither. I approve of zu_Faul's play so far, so I would have preferred a defence along the lines that he hasn't made as many posts as others, but they've all been relevant and productive. BlackWolf, don't be so easily swayed - be sure your case has really been answered before you unvote.split9102 wrote:If you are voting for him from a lack of posts, what makes you special? You barely posted at all.-
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gorillaman Goon
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I noted that Battousai was being defensive, not Atticus, for your first statement, and I was talking about Batt's FoS and Atticus' understanding of the rules for the second, not whether the roles were randomised.
Now I'm calling you overdefensive - why is your first reaction to argue with me, rather than reading the posts again to see where you'd gone wrong?-
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gorillaman Goon
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I find split and BlackWolf's lurking very suspicious. ;)
I'm struggling for something original to say. I agree BlackWolf's reaction-getting explanation is BS. zu-Faul's town vibe on silence after four largely inconsequential posts was strange.
As for recent events, the pressure voting of Rickeon is all fair play; I don't like anything about Atticus' post 104; I'm sorry for having to be prodded.-
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gorillaman Goon
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gorillaman Goon
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gorillaman Goon
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gorillaman Goon
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gorillaman
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gorillaman Goon
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Well I would hope I wouldn't act differently as cop and town.
Pretty simple set of reasons why my play this game has differed from my first one. I'm playing this game a lot more casually, because one of the dozens of mistakes I thought I made in that game was to overthink the early stages and underthink the later ones. So I'm pacing myself. You'll also notice a lot more happened and sooner in newb495, which of course prompted more serious discussion. I think it's fair to say that everyone's posting was, on average, more aggressive. Then there are eight people rather than six for me to try and figure out, which slows me down. And finally, the big one - employment. Wasn't before, am now.-
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gorillaman Goon
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gorillaman Goon
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gorillaman Goon
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gorillaman Goon
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Rereading the last few pages, I came across BlackWolf's post 170:
Seems like he's congratulating himself for seeing through Nocmen's ploy. While,BlackWolf wrote:If the scum is stupid enough to hammer now, let 'em.
It'll only mean we know who at least one of the scum are.
I don't think the town needs to be having a discussion about how to spot town power roles.BlackWolf wrote:Well, that's only if they know your meta-game.
I think it'd be perfectly normal for, say, a Doc to not act as aggresively as usual, to draw less attention to himself, or a Cop for the same reason.
So,FoS-
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gorillaman Goon
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I see no reason for town to explain to the scum what it would be stupid for them to do. I see no reason for town to talk about how the cop or the doc could be acting.
Would it matter if my post was a response to zu_Faul's? Explain how.BlackWolf wrote:
Bit desperate to appear townie?zu_Faul wrote:gorillaman still has yet to do any scumhunting.-
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gorillaman Goon
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Your suggestion is that my post was a result of zu-Faul's accusation. It benefits both town and scum to appear as town. If a player is inclined to act on a prompt to do more scum-hunting, then he will do so regardless of alignment. If town and scum act the same way in a given situation then you get zero information by noting someone taking that action. If you have something to say about theBlackWolf wrote:It matters because then you wouldn't be actively hunting scum, only doing it when somebody points it out to you. And that, is scummy.wayin which that action is carried out, that can be meaningful, but not thefact that it was. So my suggestion is that while trying to defend yourself you've resorted to mudslinging.
Now in fact I wasn't influenced by zu_Faul, because it's counter-productive to respond to that kind of pressure. You go down that road and you're forever thinking "ooh, i haven't done enough of post type x, i'd better find something to say; ah, now i'm behind on post type y, have to think of something," and you're spending the rest of the game fulfilling quotas instead of doing your job.-
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gorillaman Goon
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You didn't find it suspicious enought to comment on before I accused you of something. You twist and turn.BlackWolf wrote:I simply find it suspicios that you have not been doing any scumhunting untill this point in the game, and only post suspicions when prompted to.
Here's my question: If you actually believe you've caught someone not doing any scum-hunting at allfor a month, why aren't you voting them? That person would obviously be scum - they should be lynched.
Answer: Because you yourself are not scum-hunting; you're only interested in protecting your own position.
You're defending where you should be attacking, and that is scummy.
vote: BlackWolf
(as a side issue, obviously I deny the accusation)-
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gorillaman Goon
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*sigh* My point is very simple. If you felt this description: "you have not been doing any scumhunting untill this point in the game, and only post suspicions when prompted to." applied to another person in the game, wouldn't you be voting for them? I sure as hell would. But BlackWolf is only interested in something so far as he can use it to protect himself. That is scummy. Also, see my post on tu quoque.-
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gorillaman Goon
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Good, I didn't know this and that was my main problem with your post.weilawei wrote:I'm not dismissing P
For one thing, A doesn't concede that he is guilty of Q. Demonstrate it, as A has for P.weilawei wrote:I'm attacking A for being inconsistent. As a correct logical argument, it works like this:
A makes criticism of P for Q.
A is guilty of Q.
A's position is suspicious.
:)
Sorry.
For one thing, I don't concede that I am guilty of not scum-hunting. Demonstrate it, as I have for BlackWolf.
More importantly, it's never inconsistent for town to look for scum. That analysis is quite flawed, quite flawed.
Was a summation of my main reason for voting you, not a seperate criticism. You think you have what I would consider to be a pretty significant scumtell and prefer to use it as a pretty weak ad hom rebuttal. Defending where town should be attacking.BlackWolf wrote:Could you please clarify this statement? I don't get what situation you're referring to.
No. That's why we're talking about tu quoque, which is a fallacy, which is why I originally brought it up regarding the criticism of BlackWolf, which was unwarranted for exactly this reason.Nocmen wrote:If you are to accuse someone along those lines, you must make sure you are not guilty of them yourself. Case in point, the whole way BlackWolf called certain people inactive earlier on this game.-
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gorillaman Goon
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gorillaman Goon
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gorillaman Goon
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gorillaman Goon
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gorillaman Goon
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Nice catch.BlackWolf wrote:Why would you be happy with lynching Nocmen?
Going over your posts, you haven't cast any suspicions on him that weren't on somebody else as well.
Potentially, 253 could be an almost textbook scum post. Accusing two people, one the townie you want to see lynched today and the other your partner from whom you're trying to distance.
I don't find that particularly significant. Misguided, but not scummy.silence wrote:On another note, why did weilawei wanting to help scum pass undiscussed?-
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gorillaman Goon
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gorillaman Goon
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Well then, I mean it like that. Only ever accusing someone while you're accusing somebody else as well looks like distancing.BlackWolf wrote:In response to #257...I didn't mean anything quite like that. I was just curious as to his exact reasoning for wanting to lynch you and Nocmen.
It didn't occur to me I had anything to defend. As far as accusations go, that one's so vague I almost have to squint to know it's there. When I accused BlackWolf of not scumhunting, I gave specific and logical reasons for doing so. zu_Faul's done nothing of the sort for me. If I'm guilty of anything, it's only some lazy posting at the start of a slow game, which he may or may not know perfectly well.BlackWolf wrote:However, gorillaman, you have yet to post an actual defence of his accusation of you being your 'old, unhelpful self'.-
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gorillaman Goon
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In chronological and ascending order of importance:
Point one, while I disagree with some that BlackWolf's first vote was contradictory/scummy, like others I don't believe the justification he gave for it. This could be indicative of a general disposition toward deceit.
Point two would be my reasons for FoSing him all the way back in post number whatever-it-was. What a person is thinking about will naturally influence what they think to post. I believe post 170 showed us what was on BlackWolf's mind at the time - avoiding Nocmen's scum trap and finding town power roles.
Point three, the conclusions BlackWolf presented about me, if he really believed them, should have been enough to convince him that I was scum - but it never occurred to him to act on that. Of course we know he didn't believe them - if the town would like to glace back at post 180, and the ones leading to it, he seems barely aware I exist. By his next post, 210, and the ones after that he suddenly finds me super suspicious. The only thing that's changed in that time is I've voiced my own suspicions of him.
Is my vote going to be resting on BlackWolf at the end of the day? Possibly, but I've got my eye on another player and their actions may change things.-
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gorillaman Goon
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gorillaman Goon
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gorillaman Goon
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Hmm. I'm not sure I like Blonde's reasons for voting BlackWolf.
Point one, BlackWolf already noted didn't happen.
Point two I don't really follow.
Point three I find troublesome. "If we think that zu_faul is a scum" is a big 'if'. Obviously, if we think zu_Faul is scum we should be lynching zu_Faul. Also, lynching people by association doesn't work until we actually know, not think, who one of the scum is.
Points four and five are paraphrases of my own, which is interesting because when Blonde voted for me he cited zu_Faul and weilawei's posts as his reasons. Could be he's trying to avoid responsibility for his votes ("don't look atme, it wastheiridea").-
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gorillaman Goon
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You're stalling. Go back and have a look at his post before that.weilawei wrote:
I seem to have forgotten why you voted me.Atticus wrote:Oh, I seem to have forgotten toVote: weilawei. And no, Mr. Blonde, I've yet to do a more thorough look into things. Might have time for that tonight. Also waiting on weilawei.-
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gorillaman Goon
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unvote; vote:weilawei
For,
1a. Trying to run out the clock on the deadline. He disappears for a week from the 14th-21st, while active elsewhere; eventually returns on being prodded, where he makes some bullshit demand for Atticus to repeat his reasons instead of just going back a page and reading for himself, which buys him another two days lurking time.
1b. At least he has a vote on, but he's not doing anything to convice the town to join him. My guess, because he doesn't care who gets lynched as long as it isn't him or his teammate.
2a. Hiding behind his numbers. All this statistical gobbledygook looks like a way to conceal his motives.
2b. I also find little of substance in his other posts, except for his early accusations against Bat, which he seems to have abandoned.-
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gorillaman Goon
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You might have asked if the town actually wanted you to claim before you went ahead and did it.
What you're saying about silence is fair, but the problem is so many people are lurking/low activity it's not enough in itself for a lynch.
Edited out something non-game related that he should not have shared-
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gorillaman Goon
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gorillaman Goon
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gorillaman Goon
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I'm not confident enough in this idea to change my vote, but regarding silence and BlackWolf: their late voting suggests to me that at least one of them is scum. With so many potential wagons, they would want to keep their options open. Of the two, I find BlackWolf much the scummier.
This doesn't seem like the post of a man boasting about his 100% win record in his sig. If you think BlackWolf is even slightly more likely to be scum, which presumably you do since your vote was on him before this post, but think lynching weilawei would make the game more fun, I'd prefer you to vote for BlackWolf.Battousai wrote:unvote, vote: weilawei, just because weilawei isn't posting, making the game less fun.
To expand a little on why weilawei's post wasn't good enough, he was accused of lurking and replied that he was busy. Well obviously, that's what someone who was actually busy would say and it's what scum caught lurking would say.
weilawei, I happened to see you logged in on the 25th, why didn't you say something?-
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gorillaman Goon
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gorillaman Goon
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gorillaman Goon
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During the night I made this:
BlackWolf Association List
62 - BW's first vote is on zu_Faul for a reason with which nobody agrees; could be looking for any weak case to get his distancing out the way early.
80 - gorillaman defends BW against tu quoque
109 - Nocmen unvotes BW
123/132 - BW defends Rickeon/Blonde on not posting original content
139 - gorillaman possibly trying to deflect attention away from BW
143 - Bat takes an opportunity to remind the town he was attacking BW, possibly so we didn't miss his careful distancing.
154 - Bat unvotes BW
157 - BW doesn't want to lynch Rickeon/Blonde
164 - BW defends gorillaman on 'not scumhunting' charge/Bat's meta
174 - zu_Faul leaves BW off his FoS list, despite being the most obvious/deserving candidate
189 - Blonde's post after replacing in is primarily critical of Bat, BW's main accuser
190 - Blonde's next post primarily critical of Nocmen, BW's other accuser
212 - weilawei jumps in to defend BW
217 - weilawei still defending BW/attacking his accuser
220 - weilawei suggests gorillaman/BW pair
222 - Nocmen defends BW/attacks his accuser
242 - Bat suggests weilawei/BW pair
251 - Blonde attacks BW's most prominent accuser again
254 - BW defends Nocmen
269 - BW backs off zu_Faul
291 - silence suggests zu_Faul/BW pair
296/299/310 - Blonde trying to pin zu_Faul to BW
298 - gorillaman defends BW from Blonde's vote
300/331 - zu_Faul doesn't buy the case against BW
310 - Blonde unvotes BW
333 - gorillaman unvotes BW
338/340 - BW taking direction from silence
352 - Bat unvotes BW, whom he had been calling scum for a while, in favour of an alternate wagon
361/370 - Blonde says BW's defensiveness is 'logical', gets a town vibe from him.
371 - BW buys weilawei's explanation of his absence
Wasn't made with the intention of building a case against any particular person.
I've only checked through it once, so no doubt I've both forgotten things I wanted to include, and totally missed things that other people have spotted easily.
Obviously Blonde's now shown to be town, but I've left him in for comparison.
If we have one, is there any reason why we shouldn't play follow the cop for as long as we can?-
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gorillaman Goon
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I don't get how you can possibly not get that.
Nocmen 155 wrote:Vote: RickeonBlackWolf 157 wrote:Just posting to point out that L-1, so I will NOT be voting for him.zu_Faul 162 wrote:unvoteBlackWolf 170 wrote:If the scum is stupid enough to hammer now, let 'em.zu_Faul 174 wrote:I don't know whether all of you missed that he hasn't been on L-1 for some time. If you did I think it is possible that some of you tried to warn your scum partner not to lynch him and make themselves seem very scummy. If you did not miss it I don't know what you wanted to accomplish.
FOS: Battousai, Nocmen, Atticus-
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gorillaman Goon
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gorillaman Goon
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With three wagons to choose from, where one vote could shift the lynch, and their power role in the firing line, I'd be astonished if the scum didn't do something to try and save BlackWolf. So the evidence should be out there
No, don't do that. The hypothetical cop should claim as soon as anyone's in danger of being lynched, not defend anyone, and not give away his innocent results. Then we go on a no lynch investigation parade until the doc dies/cop gets a guilty/we hit lylo.Battousai wrote:Also, obviously if your cop and you investigated scum, tell us, and if not only defend the person you investigated if they are in danger of lynch.-
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gorillaman Goon
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vote: Battousai
Mainly for the last minute unvote of BW, for a peculiar reason.
Maybe our cop is an idiot. I don't see any harm in making sure the cop understands what they should be doing, short of telling them whom to investigate. In one of our two possible setups, if played correctly, we've all but already won the game; that deserves discussion.Atticus wrote:Because unless our cop is an idiot, he should know what to do, and because there's still some mafia in the game, we shouldn't give them opportunities which will commonly include the cop.-
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gorillaman Goon
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gorillaman
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gorillaman Goon
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gorillaman Goon
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gorillaman Goon
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gorillaman Goon
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gorillaman Goon
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gorillaman Goon
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