Mini Normal 2317 - Postgame

[Gamma Emerald]

Wow, been forever since I’ve seen a 12 person normal.

VOTE: elements

???

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: KeyLaga
Pretty sure Elements is trolling and Key taking the bait isn’t great.

[Gamma Emerald]

I feel like scum are more likely to take such things at face value

[Gamma Emerald]

I feel like scum are more likely to take such things at face value

Why are you assuming a newbie would not take this at face value?

I’m not 100% about it but I wanted to see where it leads
@Key what is the scum motivation for faking Informed like that? Ftr I have something in mind and I wanna see if you give the answer I expect.

[Gamma Emerald]

@Gamma: Sounds like he is possibly rolefishing to me.

That generally resembles what I expected

[Gamma Emerald]

Hey, elements, the only person to have claimed informed, could you let me know if your info flips when you do or not. Can’t remember the ruling for normals and I’m not really interested in going on a wiki hunt.

It doesn’t show on flip

[Gamma Emerald]

@Gamma: What do you think about Bingle at this point?

@Gamma: What do you think about Bingle at this point?

I thought it sounded like scum speaking in the "we" as opposed to the town "we" (yes, tenuous at best). But then he revealed he is a game designer and I realized there was no way he could scum-slip there.

@Gamma: What do you think about Bingle at this point?

There’s a couple things bugging me, I can drop a vote there
VOTE: Bingle

[Gamma Emerald]

Mine

[Gamma Emerald]

E-3, I am technically the only new voter since the VC on page 2

[Gamma Emerald]

@Gamma: What do you think about Bingle at this point?

@Gamma: What do you think about Bingle at this point?

I thought it sounded like scum speaking in the "we" as opposed to the town "we" (yes, tenuous at best). But then he revealed he is a game designer and I realized there was no way he could scum-slip there.

@Gamma: What do you think about Bingle at this point?

There’s a couple things bugging me, I can drop a vote there
VOTE: Bingle

Oh?

Why did you say there were 12 players?
Why did you only acknowledge one of the informed claims?

[Gamma Emerald]

Why did you say there were 12 players?
Why did you only acknowledge one of the informed claims?

Because the playerlist has 12 people in the OP and I didn’t see Kitty’s soft before making that post. What do you think my reading comprehension implies alignment wise?

There were 13 slots in sign-ups though, and the OP now has 13
Are you deliberately avoiding acknowledging Flavor Leaf in any manner this game? Because you’re evading his claim of Informed and I don’t really buy that you didn’t know the game size before we started.

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Key Laga

I think I see it
VOTE: KeyLaga

[Gamma Emerald]

for now my vote is just sheeping Flavor Leaf

[Gamma Emerald]

I like you in 245 but I am not going to talk about it of course.

This counts as discussion of ongoing games, please don't discuss ongoing games. More information is in this thread.

pretty sure the game was over? Mod just need to update the title

[Gamma Emerald]

In other news, GE actually has the worst vote on me.

VOTE: GE

o_rly

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm pretty sure Flavor voted Key because of his reaction to the E-1 and I think Flavor could be onto something
the thing is, he can probably explain anything more detailed about that better than I can

[Gamma Emerald]

I just explained why I would rather not try to put it in my own words
Do you have any other questions?

[Gamma Emerald]

I still don’t feel great about Bingle but I think he can get a D1 pass because of the speedy wagon
I had a general bad vibe from Bingle’s posting, and those points stuck out so I wanted to prod there to see if I could figure it out. I haven’t really gotten what I wanted yet.

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m not hard set on Flavor being town but if Key ends up flipping scum I’ll feel pretty good on Flavor

[Gamma Emerald]

i put Bingle to E-1 for the pure purpose of getting the wagon down.

I clearly said I would protect him, and it immediately brought his wagon heat down.

ftr I figured this out pretty quickly

[Gamma Emerald]

Might as well out the full informed, paraphrased. I am informed that a maf knows that there is a TP.

key's response to my calim doesn't read as scum who knew there was a TP

pls elaborate, I think the post where Key asks about the IC being Macho is a bit off

[Gamma Emerald]

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m not hard set on Flavor being town but if Key ends up flipping scum I’ll feel pretty good on Flavor

Ew.

This feels performative after already putting it in the “self conscious posting” spoiler

[Gamma Emerald]

Mine

[Gamma Emerald]

Fwiw it wasn’t supposed to be in said spoiler. The issue with that is definitely not “being self conscious”.

I just forgot that I’d had it quote+’d in another tab.

Now do you want to engage with kl being lhf and you wanting to vote there and not be accountable for said vote?

idk
I feel like engaging with you isn't really worth it? I get a feeling you don't care to genuinely sort me. That doesn't exactly make you scum, but it means I feel like my efforts are better placed elsewhere.

[Gamma Emerald]

UNVOTE:
I think I feel good about Key after that last spurt of posting he made. His thought process seems to be running in a town manner.

[Gamma Emerald]

Obviously the above list is a massive summary of each player, I am able to flesh out any of these reads, just ask.

The Naerys read is intriguing because I don’t recall her defending me anywhere

[Gamma Emerald]

UPDATE: Flavor moved to null, Eira moved to weak scum for UTR behavior.

"I'm caught up but I can't recall"? Oh ya sure.

Keep going itll end up well for you.

What is the point of this post?

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma´s 262 doesnt feel like townie mindset.

Bingle vaguepushed me in a recent game where we were both town and this feels like a similar vibe so I’m just gonna tune out the push until he decides to play the game

[Gamma Emerald]

Maybe post slower my god

[Gamma Emerald]

WRT Flavor Leaf, I literally joined this game on the back of his presence. We work very well together, when both town. He was in my first modded game and I have reviewed or comodded quite a few games with him. In fact, he reached out to me to comod/review a game not long before this one started.

I was intentionally ignoring his presence in this game to see what he would do about it. I was, to put it simply, unimpressed. He 'derailed' a shit wagon on me, sure, but that wagon was going nowhere fast. KL also doesn't really get any cred for the unvote/vote/unvote bit wrt my wagon dissipating, for largely the same reason. If anything, the dance there was fucking awful. But that's kind of the point: KL was pushing me, got worried they might be wrong, freaked out, and then came back and doubled down. It's a bad progression for catching scum and for appearances, but it's a natural progression for someone who is legitimately trying to figure out what I'm doing.

Okay

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m not gonna sugarcoat it: all this informed role talk is kinda losing me
My bandwidth for mechanically complex games is limited rn. Can we please just scumhunt today?

[Gamma Emerald]

Sure. I am sorry, I am not trying to derail this thread. To begin with, I see the scum solidly in Elements. I ask you Gamma, what are the chances that Town-Elements just happened to fakeclaim Informed in an Informed themed game?

I ask because this is what Elements is asking all of us (who are town) to believe that she just accidentally claimed Informed.

Anyway, that's the beginning foundation of my scum case on Elements. Who do you think are scum?

It’s not impossible but it is slightly concerning that the false info claimed has relevance to the information a real Informed has
I feel like it could have been a weird move for cred?
VOTE: Elements
My leads are limited atm so I’ll go here

[Gamma Emerald]

Traitor. This role is allowed in Complex Normal games.

Ftr that part regarding complex doesn’t apply to this game because it was reviewed before the new guidelines came out

[Gamma Emerald]

Ate traitors normal?

This question bothers me, I think they’ve been in a normal game with a traitor before? Not 100% sure though.

[Gamma Emerald]

Snip

Oh, I understood your case. I just didn't give it the time of day.

It relies on a few presumptions:

Ele is town.
KT's claim about being informed that scum know there is a protective is a lie, and therefore KT is scum.

So in order for me to be shopping the viability of non strongman kills on the IC I have to be scum with KT who also decided to risk a potential mechanical 1v1 with a town elements for the same info I was fishing for.

Thank you for this post. I have sincerely enjoyed it. I apologize for being so far behind, its a weakness of mine. Hope we are aligned as town to work together this game.

How are you behind? My brother in arms, you have the most posts!

[Gamma Emerald]

RN or OK possibly, I think Naerys seems alright currently. I will ISO the other two to determine my feelings on them soon.

[Gamma Emerald]

I like your avatar Eiralox.

[Gamma Emerald]

RN or OK possibly, I think Naerys seems alright currently. I will ISO the other two to determine my feelings on them soon.

I don't feel like voting RN either
I could vote OK but it'd be for doing nothing rather than anything he did

[Gamma Emerald]

RN feels inquisitive and like he's not afraid to stick out
Naerys posting and progression feels good to me

VOTE: Organized Khaios

[Gamma Emerald]

Greetings, Chell.

[Gamma Emerald]

Just a word of advice Chell, I think you will agree (since everyone knows you and thus you must be experienced) that Khaos is definitely lhf and I believe there is a better lim today, with plenty of time left? At least would you agree that wagoning up to a claim would be ill advised atm?

[Gamma Emerald]

I see little reason for you to be so defensive of that slot.

[Gamma Emerald]

have you played with Khaos before?

[Gamma Emerald]

Khaos is definitely lhf

can you elaborate on this please

I see little reason for you to be so defensive of that slot.

Khaos is on my scum list, his play has been scummy which I have clearly discussed in thread with Out. However I do not believe he is the best lim for today and forcing his claim, right at this moment, I believe to be anti-town.

Ahhh a fellow true believer (in lhf still being able to be scum)

[Gamma Emerald]

ftr the use of the word "know" is a pretty strong thing to say

[Gamma Emerald]

Ok, you need to continue with the 1st 10 pages too right?

Get back to me then, because she effectively came into this thread and claimed Cop.

But that's a discussion for later.

Who?

[Gamma Emerald]

#20 Fake-Claim
#212 Counter-Claim <<< this was the target

Yeah that’s not a cop claim

[Gamma Emerald]

Even if she was joking how do you pull THAT joke when there is no such information -- besides there is scum purpose in the "claim" to which there was no hint of any joke.

Ftr I think I see it but your presentation could use some work

[Gamma Emerald]

Let's quote it. Besides that it is a red herring anyway -- how does she come up with Informed -- its a scum-TMI joke. But I will quote it.

So close yet so far
Think back to what information Kitty revealed

[Gamma Emerald]

Even if she was joking how do you pull THAT joke when there is no such information -- besides there is scum purpose in the "claim" to which there was no hint of any joke.

Ftr I think I see it but your presentation could use some work

seriously gamma?

I mainly mean the argument
I am undecided on how much stock I place in it

[Gamma Emerald]

Mine

[Gamma Emerald]

There is no getting out of it, THERE WAS A COUNTER-CLAIM, YOU FISHED A TOWN POWER ROLE.

How did Elements fish that claim when I believe Kitty said he likely would have claimed anyway?

[Gamma Emerald]

Remember if we believe Elements is town then we believe he oopsed an Inform claim in a Informed themed game, where as town he should of had no prior knowledge. Prior knowledge could only have come from one place, the scum PT.

I think you need to re-assess
Pretty sure the only informed claim we’ve had that was serious was KT’s

[Gamma Emerald]

This is a Large with old rules -- no announcement necessary.

This ain’t no damn large

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay

[Gamma Emerald]

I know why you three came out -- I know.

Are you claiming your such a threat to the scumteam that they all decided to go after you?

[Gamma Emerald]

have you played with Khaos before?

This is Khaos FIRST GAME.

I meant offsite, duh

[Gamma Emerald]

There’s debate over Elements being scum for faking Informed when the game has potential incentive to do so

[Gamma Emerald]

Side note: I think something that’s bothering me about Key is he seems to be at least partially self-aware, which ends up looking self-conscious

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay do you two know each other from somewhere other than MS?

[Gamma Emerald]

@Gamma: No but we both have played Werewolf off site; we have never met virtually or otherwise. For me Werewolf was my first exposure to informed minority/shared chat day/night type games.

That actually covers it, thank you.

[Gamma Emerald]

gamma do you have a take on outworlder

I feel good about him rn

[Gamma Emerald]

gamma do you have a take on outworlder

I feel good about him rn

say more

maybe later

[Gamma Emerald]

is there a purpose in not wanting to talk with me gamma

I’m fine to talk I just don’t wanna go thru the effort of explaining

[Gamma Emerald]

Today has been a pretty shit day for me just in general fyi

[Gamma Emerald]

hi outWorldER

vote eiralox

Mmm couple things. Why’d you ask me about OWER in a manner that felt like you didn’t agree he was town when this looks like you do think he’s town? Also, what are you seeing that’s scummy from Eira?

[Gamma Emerald]

i think that's a scum reaction to the wagon tbh

appeal to the IC + shading the wagon pretty generally while not engaging with any specific vote as likely to be scum

So: eira asking celeb for reads scummy
Eira shading the wagon generally.... three people with no reasons voting eira... what other shade is there this early in the game? Snould i shade just you? Who?

Not engaging with a spes9fic vote. I asked u bingle and out y u voting me already.


?????
Please tell me youre town cos your scum team is in trouble if this is an actual push

This made me smile a little, I kinda wanna TR that last line

[Gamma Emerald]

Because I hate D1, I have a pass for coasting; I cannot buy this.

Good luck with that

[Gamma Emerald]

Eira isn't necessarily town, but this day one play isn't scum indicative

This matches how I kinda feel rn

[Gamma Emerald]

Tell me it ain't so Gamma!?

???
I was being snarky because there’s a few people who dislike D1 and basically don’t play it on this site

[Gamma Emerald]

KeyLaga
Chell
Gamma Emerald

Doctor Drew
Organized Khaos
Random Nurse
Naerys
OutWorldER

KittyTacky
Eiralox
Bingle
Celebloki

???

[Gamma Emerald]

Yes and I was being snarky because there's a few people who dislike D1 and basically don't play it on this site AND if you are telling me its so, that means ITS SO!
I think you have been in every game I have looked at, even ones that are in signup. XD

lolwut
I am mildly surprised to see this since I thought I had skipped a good number of games but I have also joined more than I initially planned when I came back

[Gamma Emerald]

Interesting about face on Key, Ele. Care to elaborate?

Its groups of how much I want to vote someone
Not a read list

:/

[Gamma Emerald]

Idk
I just am concerned why I am on the same tier as Key (which I presume is the tier Elements most wants to vote)

[Gamma Emerald]

Ah I think I see the maneuver

[Gamma Emerald]

I don’t know
Doesn’t help it’s been a year since I’ve rolled scum

[Gamma Emerald]

I wish it worked that way

[Gamma Emerald]

Wait you’ve played with scum!me, the quote in your sig was by scum!me!

[Gamma Emerald]

It wasn’t CultD3, it was that Guitarists game! That was fun!

[Gamma Emerald]

We weren’t anti-town tho lol

[Gamma Emerald]

It was from Mainstream Mafia II iirc

[Gamma Emerald]

I didn’t remember you being SK in that game tho

[Gamma Emerald]

I remember being in a cult there, I checked the playerlist for clues to be certain

[Gamma Emerald]

Today has been a pretty shit day for me just in general fyi

be good <3

:concern:

[Gamma Emerald]

I think you meant “be well” which comes off very differently

[Gamma Emerald]

Eiralox just filled the entirety of page 35 with a gradual descent into incomprehensibility
I’m impressed, most times I fill a page I end up in trouble (not complaining, only trying to be funny)
PEdit: thank you

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: KeyLaga

VOTE: keylaga

eh VOTE: Naerys

VOTE: Naerys

UNVOTE: Naerys


ugh gimme 24 hours i need a break lol

VOTE: RN

VOTE: Elements
Don’t be a leech

[Gamma Emerald]

gamma when you are around i would like to hear you explain your stances on naerys, outworlder, and eiralox in more detail

Nah

[Gamma Emerald]

CELEBLOKI PLEASE DO NOT REVEAL IF YOU ARE INFORMED PLEASE!

I agree specifically if the information comes later

[Gamma Emerald]

keylaga is not new however and i would want some serious reconsideration in an elo situation

Yeah I stopped thinking he was new after he namedropped Fate

[Gamma Emerald]

Naerys otoh, feels like an opportunistic pile on to someone who is getting a bunch of heat and refusing to engage over it. I'm also not a huge fan of the major uptick in activity right after I called out for people who hadn't done much of anything to receive scrutiny.

Nope. I find Eira´s posts to be suspicious. Its certainly deserving of putting some pressure on Eira. Everyone deserves scrutiny. How else am i to figure who is town and who is scum, if not from their reactions? I dislike D1 too, but thats not a reason for not trying to sort people out.

you're just sorting me
not touching all my spam
starting to think Bingle is 100% right on u

I dont understand. Of course i am trying to sort people. You and Elements belong to the suspicious group. Then there is null group, where are mainly people i would like to hear more from - Nurse, OutWorldER,Khaos.Also Binge is there, they are pretty hard for me to read.
As town i have Gamma, Celebloki,Kitty.
Chell,Drew and Laga i have yet to sort. Their time will come.

you know what, I feel like asking this: why am I town here? The other TRs have mechanically sound points on them but I'm just town by play, I want to know why you have me set with the conftown already.

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Eiralox
that's kinda compelling ngl

[Gamma Emerald]

OH no I am mod killed. I meant They not MR. :'(

you can say "Mx." fyi

[Gamma Emerald]

they wanted E-1, not hammer

[Gamma Emerald]

*shurg*
I'm just saying based off the initial mission statement this behavior isn't out-of-pocket.

[Gamma Emerald]

yeah

[Gamma Emerald]

You voted 2 people immediately after someone else, they’re equivalent in your case imo

[Gamma Emerald]

3 if I include your self-vote

[Gamma Emerald]

UNVOTE:
Okay

[Gamma Emerald]

holy sh*t that's great Key

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma Emerald - None of my case has been invalidated, and honestly none of Gamma's stances have been impressive. I can't really point at any post and say "This right here. Gamma scum cause of this shit" but I really do expect more from town her than she's put on display here.

I'm naturally a bit lazy and also not in the greatest headspace so pls drop your expectations

[Gamma Emerald]

...you sly bear, you!

[Gamma Emerald]

You know, things that are Alignment Indicative should be private, shouldn't they?

huh

[Gamma Emerald]

I don’t think it works that way.

[Gamma Emerald]

This game is officially a personal favorite

[Gamma Emerald]

Same tbh
At the very least I’m never voting him out

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Eiralox
that's kinda compelling ngl

what is

The association with Elements
But I now think it’s a reason to go after Elements, not you

[Gamma Emerald]

Well Eira you have an out, you can wagon Elements, I believe you will have popular support?

Don't need an out I've stopped taking you seriously a long time ago.

Bad post

[Gamma Emerald]

Naerys posting and progression feels good to me

I feel the opposite, especially around me, key, and you

explain

[Gamma Emerald]

Swoop

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Chell

Idk I'm pretty sure there's at least one scum one me but i've never seen such discordia in reasoning upon being pushed so
There has to be scum on me...
just has to be.
I really hope so.

I could be convinced to vote Chell
She kinda feels like gob from 245 when he was winding up his fabricated tunnel on me

[Gamma Emerald]

is anyone scumreading Key?

Mmm I dislike this, feels like trying to gauge the interest to determine if pushing there is a good idea

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Elements
This or Chell are my immediate suspects I wish to vote out currently

[Gamma Emerald]

No.

[Gamma Emerald]

I’ve tried to control thread by having the most posts as scum but never gone for flooding the thread as a scum tactic

[Gamma Emerald]

@Key
When I flip town, and when/if Eira flips town, where do you go from there?

Are you claiming there is a Janitor in this game? I don't think they are allowed in Normal games.

???
What about that post suggests Janitor?

[Gamma Emerald]

When I flip town, and when/if Eira flips town, where do you go from there?

@gamma
@naerys
to you too

Chell most likely though I probably vote her before Eiralox

[Gamma Emerald]

Naerys I probably reconsider, I don’t have a solid idea of how my read is affected rn
Key I don’t see myself ever voting this game.

[Gamma Emerald]

The way Chell was questioning me felt like the way gob questioned me in 245
I said something similar earlier

[Gamma Emerald]

Hmm... FL didnt feel as scummy here though

Hmmmmmm

[Gamma Emerald]

Ftr my townread on Naerys has dipped pretty recently

[Gamma Emerald]

Ftr my townread on Naerys has dipped pretty recently

Why?

I think town!you would respond differently after having explained your TR on me as being based on that game, you deflected my point to talk about Chell’s predecessor

[Gamma Emerald]

:thumbs_up:

[Gamma Emerald]

Oh man I guess I won't be profanity ranting but KNOW THIS:

SCUM JUST ROLEFISHED A SECOND TEAM POWER ROLE!

Bingle seems just fine with this?

I'm with Drew, the fungus has to go.

:/
Why are you so certain Naerys is town?

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay there is no way hiding this anymore. I am

mailman

Eira-Bingle- elements likely contains scum
I thank you you dimwitts for forcing me to claim, honestly

Don't be salty, mailman without restriction modifiers like loyal is a glorified named townie.

I am complex.

Why would you claim this suddenly as town? Do you recognize how much of a bad idea this is?

[Gamma Emerald]

No matter what happens, DO NOT claim whether or not you get mail from Naerys.

[Gamma Emerald]

And yes it's been nine minutes. I have a life. I can't stay glued to the screen all the time.

You can Explain your vote in your own words. If you don't have time for this then unvote vote me, or don't try to play the game at all.

gross

I don't like the tone of your exchanges with him and others. You sound like desperate scum.

This is not adequate.

VOTE: Eiralox

[Gamma Emerald]

Hi guys! Reads:
1. Chell - Very sus. I think they are bussing, tried to control discussion but stopped and started being inactive.
2. Doctor Drew - Seems good to me but Idk that's just vibes.
3. KeyLaga - I don't think Mafia would try so hard lol
4. Random Nurse - Has been pretty inactive but I like his posts other then the random vote on Key at the beggining.
5. KittyTacky - I think he is good.
6. Gamma Emerald - Nuetral. There are some things I like, some things I don't like.
7. Eiralox - Key made some good points about Eira being mafia but I'm less certain about Eira then Chell.
8. Celebloki - Celeb is just garunteed to be town lol
9. Naerys - I'm going to be honest, I don't vibe with her posts.
10. Elements - A little sus. I'll keep my eye on them.
11. OutWorldER - For some reason I get town vibes from him.
12. Bingle - Sus.
Okay bye now.

Eira just grows more sus with every post imo
UNVOTE: Chell
VOTE: Eira

This is your entire progression on me.

Explain your vote using your own words.

This progression is 0% suspicious.

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Unvote
INTENT FOR D1 HAMMER

Celeb already called it

[Gamma Emerald]

No sorry.

Fine play to your win con.

Scum in Kitty, Drew, Laga, Naerys, Gamma

If someone hammers me without letting me claim, I don't care who they are, they're a good lim or vig shot. My flip will make that clear at least.

Interesting

[Gamma Emerald]

Also, would town-Bingle ever attack an IC for helping a player?

[OK I think I got the terminology wrong here -- what did the coaches in the newbie games used to be called?]

But seriously, since that "newbie helping NAI role" has been abolished, how does it even make sense to attack a player who is acting in this capacity? Does town-Bingle EVER act like this?

This behavior from the desperate scum -- ooops sorry, I mean from Fungus & Bingle, this behavior should be discouraged by sitewide meta and I think it IS alignment indicative on Bingle's part at least.

Straight up? Yes.

Spoiler: My actual IC posts from old time newbies

Subject: Newbie 1542: Wikipedia Mafia II [GAME OVER]

OK. Here goes:

Spoiler: A Big Ol' IC Wall

There's a few things you should be aware of going into this game:

1st. Some of the players are what is known as a PR or Power Role. It is in town's best interest to keep the identities of these players hidden as long as possible. To that end, keep all speculation about what other's roles may be to yourself. It is bad for town to discuss this. As a PR, play as you normally would. An investigative (cop/JK) should claim if they have 1-2 guilties or 2-3 innocents. No other PR's should claim unless they are being run up, and then only at L-1. *This is not a hard and fast rule, but for the purposes of this game pretend it is.

2nd. Wagons and L-1. L-1 is shorthand that means 1 vote until l****. If you cast a vote that is the last one before a l****, announce that you are putting that person at L-1. If at any point, you find yourself wanting to vote for someone who is at L-1, instead state the intent to hammer. This means that you intend to l****the person in question. At this point, and at no point prior to this, should the person who is being voted claim their role. This is to prevent us from l****ing possibly powerful PRs. After a claim is recieved (or if the player refuses to claim) and after discussion, then the hammer might get cast.

3rd. Activity. It is incredibly important to town's chances of winning that we maintain a presence in the thread and continue trying to solve the game. To that end, everyone should attempt to post at least once a day if at all possible. Yes I realize that we all have lives, but the chance of a town win dramatically increase along with activity.

4th. The beginning. Here on mafiascum there are two major ways to start a game. RVS and RQS. Personally I believe RVS is superior, but I will demonstrate both in the interest of showing them to you.

RVS- Slightly poorly named, the goal is not to actually vote at random but to vote for arbitrary reasons. This allows people to fish for reactions, build associations and interact while we have little or no information.

RQS- Also poorly named, the goal is to ask questions that will help you determine the style of play of people while the game starts, possibly also bringing up some form of controversy so that people can begin arguing.

5th. The SE's and myself are here to help you learn how to play mafia. Ask us questions. Do not think, however, that any of us are not also playing the game. Each of your SE's and myself had exactly the same chance of drawing scum as you did. Keep that in mind. If you ever need to address something to the mod, use the bold tags: [ b][ /b]. If you would like to vote, either bold your vote or use the vote tags [ v][ /v] and put it on a separate line for Maestro's convenience.

6th. The main differences between town and scum are twofold: 1. Scum has more information than town does. 2. Scum is trying not to get l****ed, town is looking for scum. For this reason, the motivations behind a post are often more important than the content. You should look at each post individually and ask yourself:

1. Assuming the poster is town, why would he post this?
2. Assuming the poster is scum, why would he post this?
3. Do I agree with what is being said here?

TL;DR: I'm an IC. Ask me theory questions and I won't lie.

RVS:

VOTE: NotScience

C'mon, Notty. Show me some love.

RQS:

1. What is your alignment?
2. Have you played mafia before? If so, how often and in what format (RL, Forum, Skype, Using morse code on nuclear submarines in the Pacific Ocean.)
3. What alignment were you hoping to get?
4. Who among the player list do you recognize?
17. What is your opinion on l**** all Liars and l**** all Lurkers as policies?

Now I'm gonna read the two pages you guys posted while I was busy.

Subject: Newbie 1542: Wikipedia Mafia II [GAME OVER]

First off- I refuse to post random articles, and instead will be posting ones that totally have a purpose behind them.

To that end, fresh of the mafiascum wiki: http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... 27s_Gambit Enjoy!

I've been going through different games, and I agree in part with some player's inclination to start a game based on questions on gameplay/experience, rather than solely rely on RVS (random voting stage). Perhaps a combination of the two is ideal. So if everyone wouldn't mind answering these:

1) What do you think are the most efficient ways to play as Town?
2)How active are you/do you intend to be?

I think town should avoid tunnel vision, and get around to putting pressure on as many players as possible.
I'll be quite active - until exam period sets in.

1) Everyone has a different playstyle, and we're a bit premature to out scumtells and towntells. I will say this though, activity is key as town.
2) I intend to be active to the point where I have at least one decently sized post each day. This Sunday may be an exception due to real life, but that is a minimum. If I fail to meet that minimum, feel free to yell at me because it's probably because I'm being lazy.

Why specifically do you think tunnelling is bad? Do you think it is more likely to come from scum or town?

I was going to answer the question but wouldn't the scum gain a lot by knowing what we think is good town play as they could adjust there play accordingly to avoid suspicion. I feel like the cons of answering this out way the pros. What do you think town gains with this knowledge that could make me consider?

@everyone how much experience do you have playing mafia? (SE and IC's could answer if they want
@everyone does anyone have experience with other people in this game, if so who?

I am a somewhat experienced player but the games I have played in haven't been incredibly serious.

I play at least once a week in RL, and have been playing on site for quite some time now. I'm also in three hydras (two people playing together as a single player) and I have read or helped with the setup/design on many more games. If you want some of my meta, feel free to ask, or you can use the handy "view topics" button after clicking my username.

Notty (NotScience) was in my very first game on site and we talk every once in a while on sitechat.
Bins and Wolfy are both players I've seen before around the site, but I can't think of any completed games with either of them. I've also seen davesaz, although he appears to have flaked. I recognize none of you newbies. I'm sorry if I've seen you before and don't remember.

@Mdevil, why you no answer me about your scum buddy?

I didn't really think I needed to reply to a baseless accusation.

Also, you already show an inconsistency. You elect not to participate in RVS because you don't see a point, then begin to attempt to pressure me in the exact same manner, if not more so as you sought to follow up directly, while not voting. It seems kind of arbitrary.

And what does that mean to you? Is he likely scum or likely town? Why?


Hey, so Roshar is null-scum and bee is prob-town.

Speaking from experience, even in the system where there was a person whose job it was to teach, you could absolutely read into how people taught and the circumstances around it.

Also, to say I was yelling at Naerys for being helpful is a massive misrepresentation. I was pointing out that it's skeevy at best to say certain types of posts are off limits for analysis and outright damaging to the game at worst, and trying to bring morality in to enforce that makes that incredibly damaging.

Ftr I don’t try to make certain posts off limits to analyze but there are circumstances where if you try to extract an alignment read from a certain situation I will hate you for it.

[Gamma Emerald]

Once Eira flips scum, Elements goes next

[Gamma Emerald]

Actually... Naerys should send the IC a list of messages she will send on future nights, to be able to prove that people received those messages. That is the protown potential of that role, assuming it isn't functionally a scum vanilla cop.

I support this

[Gamma Emerald]

Once Eira flips scum, Elements goes next

And if eira flips town?

Eira isn’t flipping town.

[Gamma Emerald]

Nice discredit attempt.

[Gamma Emerald]

Nice discredit attempt.

you know I havn't once said that I think Eira is town

You’re working alongside him a whole awful lot though

Nice discredit attempt.

so you do agree key would be a good policy lim today

No.

[Gamma Emerald]

This progression is 0% suspicious.

It is lacklustre. When people vote me they need reasons. Few have. Chell is silent.

Khaos gave reasons already. They don’t sudden not exist because you dislike them.

[Gamma Emerald]

No.

Is Random Nurse town?

I think third scum is active so yes.

[Gamma Emerald]

Ftr I don’t try to make certain posts off limits to analyze but there are circumstances where if you try to extract an alignment read from a certain situation I will hate you for it.

I'm assuming you're talking about V/LA and RL shit posts, but no, those are explicitly game relevant. If someone isn't here because their house burned down then that's 100% something I'm going to take into consideration regarding my read of them. I'm going to take it into concern in the context of "Huh, maybe the lurking isn't intentional." but it is 100% a thing that I consider. If someone comes in and says that they had a shitty day and they're not able to play, I will look at that as well. "Does Gamma Emerald tend to have more difficulty contributing as scum or town while frustrated?" is a 100% kosher question in my books. You don't, as far as I know, have a meaningful difference in your emotional impact on games as certain alignments, but there have been players that have. LLD, for example, is more likely to shut down as town than as scum because she feels much more personally responsible for the win as scum ime.

Not those. It’s more to do with if I am feeling a certain way and people try to read into it.

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah I’ll drop it, you can ask postgame on discord if you want to know

[Gamma Emerald]

Key out here going “You should claim yourself, NOW”

[Gamma Emerald]

Key out here going “You should claim yourself, NOW”

If anyone understands the meme and would rather I not use it, please lmk

[Gamma Emerald]

HD?

[Gamma Emerald]

Mine

[Gamma Emerald]

No like, is HD a person, if so, who?

[Gamma Emerald]

Sorry I meant SD >.<

Okay but who is that?

[Gamma Emerald]

Oh new OWER okay

[Gamma Emerald]

Mis-remembered their name as "Happy Dragon" instead of sleepy lol

Happy Dragon
Sleepy Dragon
Bashful Dragon
Grumpy Dragon
Sneezy Dragon
Dopey Dragon
Doc Dragon

[Gamma Emerald]

Why is nurse scum
Also, Eiralox mostly comes off as scum for his posting in the last 15-20 pages. I think his takes have been convenient/tactical.

[Gamma Emerald]

Why is nurse scum

in short, his low post count and his lack of scumreads/pushed are both big scum tells for him specifically

Mmmm ig that makes sense

[Gamma Emerald]

Well at least that’ll shake a couple things up

[Gamma Emerald]

Bingle go off Laga the policy is moot now.

Agreed.

[Gamma Emerald]

Meant to quote the post after lol

[Gamma Emerald]

Now Eira screaming for a policy lim actually holds some weight to it haha.

Ew

[Gamma Emerald]

Yes

[Gamma Emerald]

Now Eira screaming for a policy lim actually holds some weight to it haha.

Ew

Tis just a joke given Keys ban.

Also I enjoyed reading Eira scream from the top of the rooftops that literally every word I have typed in this game is scum motivated lol.

Cele, but was is the case on Nurse?

still yucky

[Gamma Emerald]

Ok.

VOTE: Organized Chaos

Why?

[Gamma Emerald]

[Gamma Emerald]

Because you’re upset at me for not seeing that despite openly not reading any of the game

[Gamma Emerald]

Because you’re upset at me for not seeing that despite openly not reading any of the game

I don't read parts...before I come in. Been my motto for years. You've known that. So why sassy now?

It seemed like you weren’t going to. And why do you even care?

[Gamma Emerald]

Mine

[Gamma Emerald]

not catching up but just trying to figure out what's the deal with eira wagon because nobody (except KL who I refuse to listen to) would give me an explanation, and right now I have a few questions.

first: where did Naerys soft mailman?

second:
Having read a few of KL's posts, I kinda hate that slot. Like 99% of their reads are bullshit, and you can call it "too scummy to be scum" if you want to but I don't really see it. So, why do you guys (especially elements who I just saw has Titus as top TR) think these really bad pushes come from town?

three: what's the scum case on Naerys? Her TRing KL?

Four: ugh, has no one here played with eiralox before? they (or he? not sure) is known for having a disagreeable / unpalatable playstyle. Why is that scummy? Like Gamma, you've played with Eira in TL's Grandest Idea, they were town despite the annoying, against the grain attitude.

I wouldn’t say my SR on Eira is for being annoying

[Gamma Emerald]

hi guys, what are we talking about?

What do you think about the new replacements?

Ummmm... Well looking at their posts they are all neutral for me.

Even Dragon?

[Gamma Emerald]

Why do I not buy that from you

[Gamma Emerald]

not the read, but the positioning around it. defence of the slot, agreeing with reads, defending it.

What exactly didn't you like?

Opposite. What do you think about the townreads expressed on OWER

oooooh good question

I'll come back to you on that in a few hours

I didn't manage to find all townreads on the slot, but these 4 I see have expressed some sort of townread:
Bingle, Elements, Gamma, Chell

I think Elements is the only one where the TR might be slightly iffy, but not enough for a scumread on them.

Naerys was the other main wagon when we had dueling wagons. Basically, Chell posted a case on Eira that was roughly Eira is playing to an audience of the IC (which I thought was a pretty reasonable case, actually) when I made a comment about the number of people who were not active in thread after naked voting Eira and Naerys took that and ran. I didn't like the case she came up with as it mostly relied on things like 'Eira is aggressive as fak" and "No way would a town player actually like no lim" without actually examining why scum would try to fake that. She also had a level of confidence that was unreasonably high for the case being as bleh as it was. I stayed on that wagon after because A three dueling wagons was promising info wise and B there seemed to be a weird amount of resistance to Naerys getting limmed that didn't seem reasonable to me.

Having read Naerys' posts in question, I disagree with this take on Naerys. That's how she plays town alignment, it's not SI for her.

Hello snivy

is snivy here??? oh no i hope he's not scum because if he is there's no chance we ever gonna get him.

Also I was about to complain about you greeting Titus and Snivy but not me, but apparently I missed a few pages, so:

Welcome

Hi!

hi im snivy

whats up

I unironically feel tired right now and want to sleep.
Also, hi Snivy!!!!

Why do I not buy that from you

hmmm? you don't buy the village read or the lack of read?

I don’t buy that they actually read the slot at all, so the village read

[Gamma Emerald]

hi guys, what are we talking about?

What do you think about the new replacements?

Ummmm... Well looking at their posts they are all neutral for me.

Even Dragon?

Gamma do you wanna have a crazy towncore with me and Naerys?

Ehhh that works for now

[Gamma Emerald]

Can we add Titus btw?

[Gamma Emerald]

Snivy not to be rude, but please read game and give read thanks

Half of the replacements have done that same joke I think

[Gamma Emerald]

wait i isoed my own slot and his last post was on page 36

unfortunate case for random nurse's rl since i cant just cheat my notes off him but oh well

bingle, i noticed that you unvoted keylaga after kitty said the slot is hard town, but you don't even hard townread kitty. so why did you unvote?

It was a policy vote

[Gamma Emerald]

Fun fact: I didn’t realize Eiralox joined before me until during this game

[Gamma Emerald]

Kinda wouldn’t mind killing Drew here

[Gamma Emerald]

I feel like you could flip scum here
I get a not-good vibe from you rn

[Gamma Emerald]

Your priorities feel skewed, ig

[Gamma Emerald]

you seem half-heartedly interested in defending Elements
I think your comment calling CCS "useless" was out-of-pocket

[Gamma Emerald]

-_-
what is your actual read on CCS rn?

[Gamma Emerald]

I think I'm willing to let Drew cook for now.

[Gamma Emerald]

I don’t think scum!KL posts to the magnitude of explosive diarrhea, that slot is town.

[Gamma Emerald]

And I generally lean town on Naerys, the approach to certain slots is not great but I think I’m learning to overlook that if the slot in general seems like town

[Gamma Emerald]

thank you

[Gamma Emerald]

what makes you think Eiralox is town aside from that?

[Gamma Emerald]

I think the load bearing phrase there is “without a chance to defend themselves” which I think Eiralox has gotten

[Gamma Emerald]

doing a LIGHT iso of Drew, and fine I guess he can be a light townread for now.

Pedit: In this case "defend themselves" is maybe not the right word, but I would like to see how Eira engages with the new thread state that is no longer a jumbled mess.

I agree with this but don't want to take Eira off of E-1
I'll just say any hammer is a scumclaim until Eira returns

[Gamma Emerald]

Why?

[Gamma Emerald]

How so? What “sides” am I playing?

[Gamma Emerald]

btw I can see Elements being scum with Naerys based purely on their voting patterns
but 10 times out 10 I'm voting KeyLaga before I vote Elements

This post probably pinged me more than the one you quoted

[Gamma Emerald]

I think Elements + Eiralox interactions are rather concerning and I think Eiralox just going along with it ain’t great. I think in that scenario I’d be concerned about buddying.

[Gamma Emerald]

they could be but with the flagrant buddying I think it's more likely only one is scum (this is a conclusion I settled on rather recently ftr)

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m here, what’s up?

[Gamma Emerald]

IDK, do you have any idea how we actually solve this game

Because being real for a second, I don't know what to do after Eira flips regardless of Eira's alignment, and same for Bingle if they somehow end up flipping.

I think a decent road map is resolving a couple D1 wagons and working from there

[Gamma Emerald]

havent read into eiralox yet but bingle wagon is def justified here

VOTE: Bingle

today will hopefully be a less busy day for me

Pls explain
I feel like the bingle wagon is mildly reactionary

[Gamma Emerald]

also organized khaos is literally me so we are not going to lim them

???

[Gamma Emerald]

OK wasn’t really even in the discussion for yeeting

[Gamma Emerald]

Pretty sure someone said similar re: OK earlier and I think my gut check is to defenestrate CCS because it feels real odd that he said something like that after just recently coming in

[Gamma Emerald]

RN feels inquisitive and like he's not afraid to stick out
Naerys posting and progression feels good to me

VOTE: Organized Khaios

Khaos is likely newbtown. I vividly remember faceplanting like this in my first game and I was town. I'm not voting Khaos today.

Yeah my memory was correct (ftr I also remembered it being Kitty who said it but until I fact checked I didn’t want to put words in his mouth)

[Gamma Emerald]

Nah

[Gamma Emerald]

I don’t think CCS and Kitty both make that move if both are scum
I was already leaning CCS as scum out of those 2 but moving the target to me doesn’t seem great especially if it’s meant to remain vaguely topical

[Gamma Emerald]

can we not fucking do this again

[Gamma Emerald]

p sure half the votes on me are scum rn

[Gamma Emerald]

p sure half the votes on me are scum rn

Which half?

Chell and one of eira/ele