Mini Normal 2325 | Game Over

[Luca Blight]

drew is town and one of bugspray/psyche is scum, leaning bugspray

mafia is such an easy game

VOTE: bugspray

I have the same thoughts as this, actually. Although I'm leaning more towards psyche being scum, at the moment.

[Luca Blight]

wait but explain. how did you get an either/or read?

From my point of view, it's certainly not a strong view that one of you must be scum, but I sense something off with both of your openings, and don't necessarily feel like you would begin that way if bugs was your partner, although of course that is possible. I last played mafia a few years ago now but bugs always lacked confidence as scum so I could see a question like that being asked as an entrance point into the game, and I'm not sure you would put early pressure on your partner by pointing out such a flaw, as you would be overly sensitive to the fact that it could be construed as an awkward opening.

[Luca Blight]

also why not vote

I don't feel the need to right now. I'm not one for following conventions just because it's expected, when I don't otherwise see the value in it. If I see a good reason to vote someone then I surely will.

[Luca Blight]

wait but explain. how did you get an either/or read?

From my point of view, it's certainly not a strong view that one of you must be scum, but I sense something off with both of your openings, and don't necessarily feel like you would begin that way if bugs was your partner, although of course that is possible. I last played mafia a few years ago now but bugs always lacked confidence as scum so I could see a question like that being asked as an entrance point into the game, and I'm not sure you would put early pressure on your partner by pointing out such a flaw, as you would be overly sensitive to the fact that it could be construed as an awkward opening.

this explains downweight of "scum psyche / scum bugspray", but doesn't give why "scum psyche / town bugspray" and "town psyche / scum bugspray" scenarios are upweighted

I've said that both of your openings seem off, and have explained why I think Bugs could be scum based on their opening. As to why I sense you are more likely scum, it's just a gut feeling, but perhaps it's that your first post almost looked a little too polished to begin with, and then the immediate questioning of the either/or read - it seems a bit of a non-confrontational way to go about it that i might expect from scum early on. On first glance I liked your posts, but on second glance I could easily see scum performing in such a manner early doors. Again, nothing major, but those are my thoughts.

[Luca Blight]

These early reads seem a bit mindless… let’s slow down a bit and think about it.

I’m here by the way.

I get what you're saying, but without the early reads, mindless though they may be, there would be nothing to slow down and think about.

[Luca Blight]

These early reads seem a bit mindless… let’s slow down a bit and think about it.

I’m here by the way.

I get what you're saying, but without the early reads, mindless though they may be, there would be nothing to slow down and think about.

Seems like Pysche was using this same logic, but you called them out for it?

I'm not scumreading psyche for the fact he has reads early doors, but for the tone of his posts, as I did my best to explain.

[Luca Blight]

drew is town and one of bugspray/psyche is scum, leaning bugspray

mafia is such an easy game

VOTE: bugspray

I have the same thoughts as this, actually. Although I'm leaning more towards psyche being scum, at the moment.

I mostly agree with Luca on this. From the few games I looked at before this, the mafia tend to just lurk in the shadows at the start while town do a good job of killing themselves off. So I was inclined to be less suspicious of whoever responded first (drew/bugspray/psyche). While bugspray could well be bluffing with the question I just thought it was more likely they were town. However, I think it's either psyche or none of them, and that at least two of the mafia are currently lurking in the shadows. I chose a random lurker (jacob) to start off, who seemed perhaps to be a bit annoyed that I had voted him? Maybe because he's mafia? who knows

That's an interesting interpretation - that Jacob was a bit annoyed that you had voted him. I can kind of see where you're coming from, although he seemed more annoyed at Outworld and myself for the early reads.

Why do you think psyche is more likely to be scum than drew, for example?

[Luca Blight]

If you kick out all the multitaskers, then who is going to do multiple night actions, moderator? in the sense that -

I'm trying to make sense of this post. Could this be a scum pt slip? A casual question to the mod like this, cut off mid post.

Why does she think the multitaskers are being kicked out? It's as though she is reading another thread, or am I missing something here?

[Luca Blight]

I'm about to go to bed, but right now my feeling is that bugs/Delta + 1 of the quiet ones is scum. I'm leaning town on Ketchup at the moment.

[Luca Blight]

I'm about to go to bed, but right now my feeling is that bugs/Delta + 1 of the quiet ones is scum. I'm leaning town on Ketchup at the moment.

you can't call someone who hasn't posted in 9 hours a quiet one. i literally posted twice and then went to sleep. even when about to sleep you could not consider that is why I have not posted for the amount of time that is around one sleep? that is strange
but not as strange as the maybe scum pt slip

I didn't call you a quiet one, I said I think you and Delta are scum plus one of the quiet ones.

[Luca Blight]

Yeah, Bugs is definitely scum this game.

[Luca Blight]

If you kick out all the multitaskers, then who is going to do multiple night actions, moderator? in the sense that -

I'm trying to make sense of this post. Could this be a scum pt slip? A casual question to the mod like this, cut off mid post.

Why does she think the multitaskers are being kicked out? It's as though she is reading another thread, or am I missing something here?

I just want to bring attention back to this post to hear everyone's thoughts on it.

Right, off to bed.

[Luca Blight]

If you kick out all the multitaskers, then who is going to do multiple night actions, moderator? in the sense that -

I'm trying to make sense of this post. Could this be a scum pt slip? A casual question to the mod like this, cut off mid post.

Why does she think the multitaskers are being kicked out? It's as though she is reading another thread, or am I missing something here?

LOL it's a meme https://youtu.be/a8INEYLFWwc?si=JUlL5q0mCHUheIvr

Hmm, ok fair enough I guess. I'm actually aware of that video yet never would have made the connection had you not pointed it out. Very obscure indeed. Why did you finish with '

in the sense that

- '?

[Luca Blight]

If you kick out all the multitaskers, then who is going to do multiple night actions, moderator? in the sense that -

I'm trying to make sense of this post. Could this be a scum pt slip? A casual question to the mod like this, cut off mid post.

Why does she think the multitaskers are being kicked out? It's as though she is reading another thread, or am I missing something here?

LOL it's a meme https://youtu.be/a8INEYLFWwc?si=JUlL5q0mCHUheIvr

Hmm, ok fair enough I guess. I'm actually aware of that video yet never would have made the connection had you not pointed it out. Very obscure indeed. Why did you finish with '

in the sense that

- '?

Scratch that question - I just watched the video in full again. Makes sense now.

[Luca Blight]

kind of an interesting way to put it. he typed "bugs is definitely scum this game" and still hasn't voted anyone

Because I was still investigating the Delta situation, but now my lead has run dry.

You can consider my vote on Bugs, but I still see no reason to vote so early in the day. Some players haven't even posted yet.

[Luca Blight]

would like luca to elaborate on what they see in bug's posts that shift read to definitely scum

I have read Bugs as scum correctly every time in the past, very early in the game, and townread them correctly too. I can just tell effortlessly, for some reason. I will elaborate later on why I'm so sure Bugs is scum now, I'm about to go out.

[Luca Blight]

one of bugspray/psyche is scum, leaning bugspray

how does this kind of either/or read happen

wait but explain. how did you get an either/or read?

From my point of view, it's certainly not a strong view that one of you must be scum, but I sense something off with both of your openings, and don't necessarily feel like you would begin that way if bugs was your partner, although of course that is possible. I last played mafia a few years ago now but bugs always lacked confidence as scum so I could see a question like that being asked as an entrance point into the game, and I'm not sure you would put early pressure on your partner by pointing out such a flaw, as you would be overly sensitive to the fact that it could be construed as an awkward opening.

interactions look funny, love how luca is answering for outworlder

I answered for myself - psyche was questioning me.

[Luca Blight]

You can consider my vote on Bugs, but I still see no reason to vote so early in the day. Some players haven't even posted yet.

Voting creates wagons which apply pressure. Peoples reactions to the pressure can help us read them. It's also useful to see who jumps on the wagons and for what reasons

I'm not saying you have to vote but there are valid reasons to vote early. Our vote is a tool that should be utilized

I get that, and in essence my vote is on Bugs as I'm sure they're scum, but I feel more comfortable voting when I at least have a decent read on everyone in this game.

[Luca Blight]

I'm about to go to bed, but right now my feeling is that bugs/Delta + 1 of the quiet ones is scum. I'm leaning town on Ketchup at the moment.

you can't call someone who hasn't posted in 9 hours a quiet one. i literally posted twice and then went to sleep. even when about to sleep you could not consider that is why I have not posted for the amount of time that is around one sleep? that is strange
but not as strange as the maybe scum pt slip

Here Bugs is immediately defensive and doesn't read the post properly. The main reason I find this post scummy is because they shade me while also halfheartedly agreeing to my observation regarding the scum pt slip, but then never following up on that.

ketchup are you an alt?

This kind of question immediately after takes the limelight off of Bugs without really achieving anything. It actually makes me feel like Bugs/Ketchup could potentially be partners, which I might elaborate on later.

how is what i wrote a scum pt slip? it was literally directed at luca

This one is hard to explain, but it subconsciously reads to me that Bugs knows I'm Town - from the general perspective of the town, me and Bugs could potentially be partners, so directing the message at me alone doesn't necessarily mean it isn't a slip. That Bugs believes the message being directed at me means it can't be a slip, is in itself a slight perspective slip, if you follow me.

wait but explain. how did you get an either/or read?

From my point of view, it's certainly not a strong view that one of you must be scum, but I sense something off with both of your openings, and don't necessarily feel like you would begin that way if bugs was your partner, although of course that is possible. I last played mafia a few years ago now but bugs always lacked confidence as scum so I could see a question like that being asked as an entrance point into the game, and I'm not sure you would put early pressure on your partner by pointing out such a flaw, as you would be overly sensitive to the fact that it could be construed as an awkward opening.

this explains downweight of "scum psyche / scum bugspray", but doesn't give why "scum psyche / town bugspray" and "town psyche / scum bugspray" scenarios are upweighted

why do you think we can't both be town? surely if you did you would have included us both being town as an alternative. seems like you are trying to take advantage of how scummy i just straight up always seem to appear (it's fucked up, i got TSE'd my most recent games) and then just be like low key appear more town than me

VOTE: psyche

I hard-scumread this, because remember Bugs just acknowledged the 'maybe scum-slip' of Delta and then completely neglects it and goes after Psyche instead (because they already knew it wasn't really a scum slip, perhaps). Bugs again completely fails to follow the context of what is being written, and is desperately trying to deflect onto another member of town who people have expressed suspicion of. Also, if Bugs is scum and psyche town then it makes sense for Bugs to go after psyche when you consider that if Bugs is condemned and flips red, then people already said that they believed Bugs and psyche were not teammates anyway, so it limits the association tells.

Also, it feels like another perspective slip. '

Why do you think we can't both be town'

feels like a really weird thing to ask if you're town.

if you don't add avatars to your account i will policy yeet you due to playability reasons

Another one to add to the collection of deflecting attention away immediately following a potentially incriminating post that is subject to scrutiny. It's difficult to explain, but it's like Bugs feels uncomfortable following the post against psyche, and feels the need to immediately change the tone to something a little more light-hearted. The same as they did earlier in 47.

one of bugspray/psyche is scum, leaning bugspray

how does this kind of either/or read happen

bugspray's comment I do think is scummy and performative: to ask the question genuinely in the first place would require them to believe that the NRG (3 people) + listmod signed off on a game that had a role which is no longer normal/considered simple. It comes off to me as faking a dumbtell and also as a way to say "hey if I was scum I could've just asked this in scum PT".

But it being a genuine brainfart is

not

outside the realm of possibility. I've had dumber moments in my time playing mafia. If this is the case than you, Psyche, could very easily be scum trying to capitalize on a townie blunder, which is how I arrived at the either/or read since at the time I posted that your vote looked a bit more thought out than Drew's; Drew's looked more like a kneejerk reaction and it's why I lean town on him.

you are seriously misrepping this. people make mistakes very frequently. there is so mental gymnastics to ignore occam's razor. i had the concern the moment i read the game thread after checking my role pm and decided to immediately ask it publicly

Bugs is in survival mode and probably already fairly accepting of their inevitable condemnation. Bugs is not a confident player as scum, and is far more proactive as town. This is an easy read for me.

[Luca Blight]

Sure, that's fair

I'm looking forward to hearing your scumcase on bug. Your confidence is a little jarring but that might be because I'm rarely confident in my reads, especially early

I'm always very confident in my read on certain players, and Bugs is one of them. I know Bugs is scum, and Bugs knows I know they're scum, and I can understand their frustration as I always catch them out very early in the game.

[Luca Blight]

Sure, that's fair

I'm looking forward to hearing your scumcase on bug. Your confidence is a little jarring but that might be because I'm rarely confident in my reads, especially early

I'm always very confident in my read on certain players, and Bugs is one of them. I know Bugs is scum, and Bugs knows I know they're scum, and I can understand their frustration as I always catch them out very early in the game.

So you have extensive meta with bug? Can you post a game you've caught them before this early?

Yes, it's been a few years since I played Mafia so I expected it to be different this time around, but I can clearly read Bugs as scum once again.

Here is an example of me scumreading Bugs very early doors and pushing non-stop for their elimination. It took until D3 to finally make it happen:

viewtopic.php?t=85345

I reference in this game as well my ability to read Bugs well. There are other examples I can provide if necessary, although this alone should be sufficient.

[Luca Blight]

So yeah, I'm definitely not voting anyone else but Bugs for today, but I'm gonna refrain from tunnelling and will turn my attention now to acquiring other reads. I'll return back to Bugs later in the day.

[Luca Blight]

I think Ketchup, outworld and perhaps psyche are town, although I have a slight niggling concern that psyche is coasting. I like the tone of their posts but suspect they are capable of more.

[Luca Blight]

So yeah, I'm definitely not voting anyone else but Bugs for today, but I'm gonna refrain from tunnelling and will turn my attention now to acquiring other reads. I'll return back to Bugs later in the day.

UNVOTE:

I actually feel overconfident town energy here, but do you have a scum of yours you could link in here?

I was looking for one and came across another game in which I easily read Bugs as scum early on:

viewtopic.php?t=82613

I have to do some work but will be sure to link a scum game of mine later. I can play pretty well as scum when i'm in the mood, but I'm definitely far more confident as town.

[Luca Blight]

So yeah, I'm definitely not voting anyone else but Bugs for today, but I'm gonna refrain from tunnelling and will turn my attention now to acquiring other reads. I'll return back to Bugs later in the day.

UNVOTE:

I actually feel overconfident town energy here, but do you have a scum of yours you could link in here?

I was looking for one and came across another game in which I easily read Bugs as scum early on:

viewtopic.php?t=82613

I have to do some work but will be sure to link a scum game of mine later. I can play pretty well as scum when i'm in the mood, but I'm definitely far more confident as town.

Here's the scum game in which I had my best performance: viewtopic.php?t=85772

I may soon get around to reviewing the likes of Jacob who I don't have any strong opinions on yet. As Monday was my birthday I still feel like I'm on holiday mode, so I need to get my thoughts organised.

[Luca Blight]

Fair enough. Maybe better to say I liked Luca's reasoning. A lot of people had put votes down on Bug without explaining really so I wanted something a little more formal. Post 26 felt good when I read the ISO on him.

Didn't you refer to my post 26 as 'mindless' before? What's changed?

[Luca Blight]

VOTE: bugs

I'm all here for it

Did the meta I provided convince you, or my analysis of Bugs in 145, or something else?

[Luca Blight]

btw i still have not read the posts you want me to read.
who does you refer to? it refers to you. the mafia player reading this

This is a disengaged player who will continue to draw out inactivity until their inevitable elimination at the end of the day, in the vain hope that people get distracted and another wagon will emerge. I've seen this pattern many times now. I say 'vain hope', perhaps not - in the meta I provided earlier I had Bugs pegged as scum from early day 1 but they managed to somehow survive until D3.

Town!Bugs is proactive and inquisitive, scum!bugs pretty much throws in the towel when caught. I don't expect much content from Bugs during this day phase.

[Luca Blight]

Luca raises some good anti-Bugs points in 145 which have begun to persuade me that Bugs is maybe dodgier than I first thought. Nowhere close to voting them tho. Let’s try something new.

Vote: ProjEctRy

You’ve had 3 meaningless posts and one post accusing a townie (me ;)). Not looking so good for you there my friend.

Happy belated birthday Luca!

Thanks!

Could I ask you to elaborate more on your thoughts regarding Bugs?

[Luca Blight]

Yeah, Bugs is definitely scum this game.

Why?

If you kick out all the multitaskers, then who is going to do multiple night actions, moderator? in the sense that -

I'm trying to make sense of this post. Could this be a scum pt slip? A casual question to the mod like this, cut off mid post.

Why does she think the multitaskers are being kicked out? It's as though she is reading another thread, or am I missing something here?

I just want to bring attention back to this post to hear everyone's thoughts on it.

Right, off to bed.

I doubt it was a scum slip. They're not very common. I read it more like a joke based on the earlier conversation around multitasking

I'm just curious, did you understand the joke? I don't think it makes any sense unless you're intimately familiar with the video that Delta posted.

[Luca Blight]

If I had to stick my neck out right now, I'd say the scumteam is Bugs/Black/ketchup. That is probably quite controversial, but it makes sense to me right now.

Obviously we're still waiting for content from a few, but I sometimes like to make these early predictions just in case I hit the jackpot.

[Luca Blight]

If I had to stick my neck out right now, I'd say the scumteam is Bugs/Black/ketchup.

That is probably quite controversial, but it makes sense to me right now.

Obviously we're still waiting for content from a few, but I sometimes like to make these early predictions just in case I hit the jackpot.

Talk to me about it

I feel like they are both subtly redirecting from the Bugs wagon. Ketchup's townread and refusal to vote Bugs makes no point at this stage, especially when ketchup said I made good points in my case against Bugs. Black is just posting exactly how I would expect scum to, staying pretty neutral yet active, lots of filler. Her vote on Jacob feels really off to me for some reason. her reaction to the Delta joke could be a case of knowing too much - I don't think most people would have understood that joke? I'm about to go offline again so will try to explain my thoughts better later.

[Luca Blight]

*Makes no sense at this stage, that should have read.

For some reason, Bugs asking Ketchup if they were an alt pinged me as a potential partner interaction at that point in time as well.

I just wanted to say that if Ketchup is indeed scum, then you're doing a terrific job! Just don't defend your buddy so obviously next time ;)

[Luca Blight]

Luca raises some good anti-Bugs points in 145 which have begun to persuade me that Bugs is maybe dodgier than I first thought. Nowhere close to voting them tho. Let’s try something new.

Thanks!

Could I ask you to elaborate more on your thoughts regarding Bugs?

Sure. Basically everything you’ve recently said has led me further and further from my original guess that Bugs was town. I thought at first that if bugs were mafia, they wouldn’t be asking random questions (like the multitasking one and asking if I was an alt) because it’s just drawing unnecessary attention to themselves. It’s not like asking questions demonstrates that your town, so I didn’t think a mafia would be asking these kind of questions. But you raise so many good points that you’re making me doubt my initial read; maybe Bugs is nervous, or is double bluffing me. Aware that there are liars among us though, I don’t want to let myself get fully swayed by you (Luca) yet on Bugs, especially as my vote at this point would be the fifth vote on Bugs which is dangerously close to voting them off. All it takes them is one mafia and one over enthusiastic townie to vote Bugs off and that seals it (for better or for worse, I can’t tell at this point). I haven’t felt anything good come out of Project yet, maybe if they had accused someone else but I get to be in the fortunate position of distrusting anyone who votes me because they’re wrong (:
So I’ll keep my vote on Project for now until something better comes up. I honestly doubt I’ll be successful in starting a wagon, because Bugs is under way more fire atm it seems, but I’d rather go with my gut than go with the herd.

This reads town to me. I’m not sure on Black at the moment but definitely not in a place to name them mafia.

Yeah, I could be wrong about Ketchup. There are definitely some townie elements to his play. He certainly seems to scumhunt/townhunt in a unique sort of way that I find difficult to resonate with, though. Of course, that is to be expected from newer players to an extent.

As for you, Jacob, you are hardly filling me with confidence. Can I get your general thoughts on the game, as well as an answer to my 171?

[Luca Blight]

I think Ketchup is going to be my paranoid scumread this game. I want to townread him as I like his posts and they seem so innocent, but there is also something about the tone of his posts, looking beneath the surface, that reads as contrived. It might just be his playing style, of course. I think he reminds me of another new player I played with who I town-leaned for similar reasons and they ended up being scum, so that might have something to do with it.

[Luca Blight]

Luca raises some good anti-Bugs points in 145 which have begun to persuade me that Bugs is maybe dodgier than I first thought. Nowhere close to voting them tho. Let’s try something new.

Thanks!

Could I ask you to elaborate more on your thoughts regarding Bugs?

Sure. Basically everything you’ve recently said has led me further and further from my original guess that Bugs was town. I thought at first that if bugs were mafia, they wouldn’t be asking random questions (like the multitasking one and asking if I was an alt) because it’s just drawing unnecessary attention to themselves. It’s not like asking questions demonstrates that your town, so I didn’t think a mafia would be asking these kind of questions. But you raise so many good points that you’re making me doubt my initial read; maybe Bugs is nervous, or is double bluffing me. Aware that there are liars among us though, I don’t want to let myself get fully swayed by you (Luca) yet on Bugs, especially as my vote at this point would be the fifth vote on Bugs which is dangerously close to voting them off. All it takes them is one mafia and one over enthusiastic townie to vote Bugs off and that seals it (for better or for worse, I can’t tell at this point). I haven’t felt anything good come out of Project yet, maybe if they had accused someone else but I get to be in the fortunate position of distrusting anyone who votes me because they’re wrong (:
So I’ll keep my vote on Project for now until something better comes up. I honestly doubt I’ll be successful in starting a wagon, because Bugs is under way more fire atm it seems, but I’d rather go with my gut than go with the herd.

This reads town to me. I’m not sure on Black at the moment but definitely not in a place to name them mafia.

Yeah, I could be wrong about Ketchup. There are definitely some townie elements to his play. He certainly seems to scumhunt/townhunt in a unique sort of way that I find difficult to resonate with, though. Of course, that is to be expected from newer players to an extent.

As for you, Jacob, you are hardly filling me with confidence. Can I get your general thoughts on the game, as well as an answer to my 171?

Did I really? If so my bad. That post was mostly aimed at not the first phase stuff so sorry if it seemed like I was on you. I just wanted something more though out then “you voted me so f you” mentality.

Sorry if I’m not convincing you of my township, why poke at me though? You’ve been out against everyone in the game practically

D1 essentially is about poking around in the dark to try and make sense of what's going on, from a town perspective. I feel like you're deflecting a bit with that last sentence. Do you think

'being out against everyone'

is scummy, or are you just finding my playing style frustrating?

Also, again, can I get your general thoughts on the game? I feel like you've only spoken about a few players in this game so far (namely Bugs, Ketchup and myself.)

[Luca Blight]

I just woke up and scanned through. Black suddenly seems a lot more Townie, but it's almost a case of 'too little too late' to change my read on her this day, for it could easily be a performance agreed upon behind closed doors by Dann and Black to get Black some town credit upon his elimination. It's much easier as scum when you have a partner you can dialogue with in the thread - I've had that experience in the past myself.

[Luca Blight]

I have to go and do some work now, but I just want to shine a light on this again:

btw i still have not read the posts you want me to read.
who does you refer to? it refers to you. the mafia player reading this

This is a disengaged player who will continue to draw out inactivity until their inevitable elimination at the end of the day, in the vain hope that people get distracted and another wagon will emerge. I've seen this pattern many times now. I say 'vain hope', perhaps not - in the meta I provided earlier I had Bugs pegged as scum from early day 1 but they managed to somehow survive until D3.

Town!Bugs is proactive and inquisitive, scum!bugs pretty much throws in the towel when caught. I don't expect much content from Bugs during this day phase.

I was right, wasn't I?

[Luca Blight]

Also Luca can you answer 159

The answer is no.

I don't really have anything else to add at this point - still fully intend on condemning Dann. Just waiting for some of the quieter slots to get involved so I might be able to get a read on them one way or another.

[Luca Blight]

Also Luca can you answer 159

The answer is no.

I don't really have anything else to add at this point - still fully intend on condemning Dann. Just waiting for some of the quieter slots to get involved so I might be able to get a read on them one way or another.

Why am I know getting the impression that you will never actually vote Dann?

This reeks of you waiting for someone else to be just a bit 'scummier' in your eyes, and then voting them over Dann

And why do you think I want to do that?

I've said for some time now that I will vote no-one but the Bugs slot today. I just don't want the day to end before I have at least some inkling about every player in the game. I'll vote when I feel like I've seen enough.

[Luca Blight]

Also Luca can you answer 159

The answer is no.

I don't really have anything else to add at this point - still fully intend on condemning Dann. Just waiting for some of the quieter slots to get involved so I might be able to get a read on them one way or another.

Why am I know getting the impression that you will never actually vote Dann?

This reeks of you waiting for someone else to be just a bit 'scummier' in your eyes, and then voting them over Dann

And why do you think I want to do that?

I've said for some time now that I will vote no-one but the Bugs slot today. I just don't want the day to end before I have at least some inkling about every player in the game. I'll vote when I feel like I've seen enough.

Can I hold you to this?

Like, basically a scum claim if you don't vote Dann before the end of the day?

Well, you can perceive it that way if you wish. I assure you that I will vote Dann as I've already made my mind up about that slot.

The only situation in which I wouldn't vote Dann is if there is a quickhammer that ends the day early before I get the chance.

[Luca Blight]

i did not

i actually read the game first this time and made sure i was replacing into what i thought was more likely to be a town slot before i replaced in

This post is crazy to me. Clearly you didn’t read close enough. This feels like an incredibly flimsy defense. Despite me earlier doubts, I’m back with Luca and like Black’s thoughts.

VOTE: Dannflor

For someone who moans as much as I about the Bugs/Dann slot, you seem easily placated by Black is who continuously redirecting away from that wagon.

Just noting for later reference.

[Luca Blight]

Also Luca can you answer 159

The answer is no.

I don't really have anything else to add at this point - still fully intend on condemning Dann. Just waiting for some of the quieter slots to get involved so I might be able to get a read on them one way or another.

Why am I know getting the impression that you will never actually vote Dann?

This reeks of you waiting for someone else to be just a bit 'scummier' in your eyes, and then voting them over Dann

And why do you think I want to do that?

I've said for some time now that I will vote no-one but the Bugs slot today. I just don't want the day to end before I have at least some inkling about every player in the game. I'll vote when I feel like I've seen enough.

Can I hold you to this?

Like, basically a scum claim if you don't vote Dann before the end of the day?

Well, you can perceive it that way if you wish. I assure you that I will vote Dann as I've already made my mind up about that slot.

The only situation in which I wouldn't vote Dann is if there is a quickhammer that ends the day early before I get the chance.

So you are giving yourself an out is what you are saying.

No - I'm acknowledging a possible reality - that quickhammers sometimes occur in Mafia. I hope this won't be the case as I'm not yet ready to end the day, hence my reluctance to vote despite the conviction I have.

You seem to suspect me for this - what kind of angle are you looking at this from? I'm curious.

[Luca Blight]

Also Luca can you answer 159

The answer is no.

I don't really have anything else to add at this point - still fully intend on condemning Dann. Just waiting for some of the quieter slots to get involved so I might be able to get a read on them one way or another.

Why am I know getting the impression that you will never actually vote Dann?

This reeks of you waiting for someone else to be just a bit 'scummier' in your eyes, and then voting them over Dann

And why do you think I want to do that?

I've said for some time now that I will vote no-one but the Bugs slot today. I just don't want the day to end before I have at least some inkling about every player in the game. I'll vote when I feel like I've seen enough.

Can I hold you to this?

Like, basically a scum claim if you don't vote Dann before the end of the day?

Well, you can perceive it that way if you wish. I assure you that I will vote Dann as I've already made my mind up about that slot.

The only situation in which I wouldn't vote Dann is if there is a quickhammer that ends the day early before I get the chance.

So you are giving yourself an out is what you are saying.

No - I'm acknowledging a possible reality - that quickhammers sometimes occur in Mafia. I hope this won't be the case as I'm not yet ready to end the day, hence my reluctance to vote despite the conviction I have.

You seem to suspect me for this - what kind of angle are you looking at this from? I'm curious.

Don't play dumb.

I called you out initially for not wanting to vote Bug, and now you don't want to vote Dann.

Why would you not want to vote someone who you think is definitely scum? Quickhammer or not, wouldn't scum being limmed a best cased scenario for D1??

I'm asking you, what do you think my motivation for this is as scum? You think I could be partners with Dann, or is there another angle here?

I do want to eliminate Dann as I've repeatedly reaffirmed. The reason I haven't voted is because I'm waiting for certain players to get into the game, as I've also explained. When I vote it means I'm ready for the day to be over - I like my votes to have a sense of gravity to them.

[Luca Blight]

The answer is no.

I don't really have anything else to add at this point - still fully intend on condemning Dann. Just waiting for some of the quieter slots to get involved so I might be able to get a read on them one way or another.

Why am I know getting the impression that you will never actually vote Dann?

This reeks of you waiting for someone else to be just a bit 'scummier' in your eyes, and then voting them over Dann

And why do you think I want to do that?

I've said for some time now that I will vote no-one but the Bugs slot today. I just don't want the day to end before I have at least some inkling about every player in the game. I'll vote when I feel like I've seen enough.

Can I hold you to this?

Like, basically a scum claim if you don't vote Dann before the end of the day?

Well, you can perceive it that way if you wish. I assure you that I will vote Dann as I've already made my mind up about that slot.

The only situation in which I wouldn't vote Dann is if there is a quickhammer that ends the day early before I get the chance.

So you are giving yourself an out is what you are saying.

No - I'm acknowledging a possible reality - that quickhammers sometimes occur in Mafia. I hope this won't be the case as I'm not yet ready to end the day, hence my reluctance to vote despite the conviction I have.

You seem to suspect me for this - what kind of angle are you looking at this from? I'm curious.

Don't play dumb.

I called you out initially for not wanting to vote Bug, and now you don't want to vote Dann.

Why would you not want to vote someone who you think is definitely scum? Quickhammer or not, wouldn't scum being limmed a best cased scenario for D1??

I'm asking you, what do you think my motivation for this is as scum? You think I could be partners with Dann, or is there another angle here?

I do want to eliminate Dann as I've repeatedly reaffirmed. The reason I haven't voted is because I'm waiting for certain players to get into the game, as I've also explained. When I vote it means I'm ready for the day to be over - I like my votes to have a sense of gravity to them.

I want you to vote your top scum read.

Ya know, as town should.

What has more gravity then that?

I don't know, perhaps repeatedly stating unequivocally that I will not vote anyone other than my main scumread today? Votes in the earlier stages of the day mean very little - look at Black's vote on Dann, for example - that didn't last long, did it?

I get you want me to vote my scumread. What I don't get is what you think my motivation here is as scum.

[Luca Blight]

227 feels LAMIST to me and I don't think it makes sense for Jacob to get off the bug wagon if he thinks Luca's read is accurate. Feels more like he wants to give Dannflor a chance to save himself

I want to know how Black went from suspecting Dann and Jacob of being partners in crime to then voting Project along with Dann?

This whole progressions reads incredibly fake to me. The last sentence is quite ironic also.

[Luca Blight]

And why do you think I want to do that?

I've said for some time now that I will vote no-one but the Bugs slot today. I just don't want the day to end before I have at least some inkling about every player in the game. I'll vote when I feel like I've seen enough.

Can I hold you to this?

Like, basically a scum claim if you don't vote Dann before the end of the day?

Well, you can perceive it that way if you wish. I assure you that I will vote Dann as I've already made my mind up about that slot.

The only situation in which I wouldn't vote Dann is if there is a quickhammer that ends the day early before I get the chance.

So you are giving yourself an out is what you are saying.

No - I'm acknowledging a possible reality - that quickhammers sometimes occur in Mafia. I hope this won't be the case as I'm not yet ready to end the day, hence my reluctance to vote despite the conviction I have.

You seem to suspect me for this - what kind of angle are you looking at this from? I'm curious.

Don't play dumb.

I called you out initially for not wanting to vote Bug, and now you don't want to vote Dann.

Why would you not want to vote someone who you think is definitely scum? Quickhammer or not, wouldn't scum being limmed a best cased scenario for D1??

I'm asking you, what do you think my motivation for this is as scum? You think I could be partners with Dann, or is there another angle here?

I do want to eliminate Dann as I've repeatedly reaffirmed. The reason I haven't voted is because I'm waiting for certain players to get into the game, as I've also explained. When I vote it means I'm ready for the day to be over - I like my votes to have a sense of gravity to them.

I want you to vote your top scum read.

Ya know, as town should.

What has more gravity then that?

I don't know, perhaps repeatedly stating unequivocally that I will not vote anyone other than my main scumread today? Votes in the earlier stages of the day mean very little - look at Black's vote on Dann, for example - that didn't last long, did it?

I get you want me to vote my scumread. What I don't get is what you think my motivation here is as scum.

People vote early and often on D1, especially early.....and will switch it up. That is the struggle of D1

People don't show the confidence that you have shown about Bug/Dann......and not back it up with a vote.

You can say you will vote dann as much as you want, but the fact that you will not vote that slot is probably the most telling thing about this game.

Dann is not in danger of being quick hammered

So again, why are you scared of voting your top scum read?

I feel like we're going around in circles here. I've explained why and if you can't accept it, and choose to scumread me for it, then that is your gift.

But as a last comment on the matter - I would argue that my assurance of voting the Dann slot and no-one else today is worth a lot more than a mere early vote that can be changed at any time.

[Luca Blight]

227 feels LAMIST to me and I don't think it makes sense for Jacob to get off the bug wagon if he thinks Luca's read is accurate. Feels more like he wants to give Dannflor a chance to save himself

I want to know how Black went from suspecting Dann and Jacob of being partners in crime to then voting Project along with Dann?

This whole progressions reads incredibly fake to me. The last sentence is quite ironic also.

So you might vote Black over Dann?

No. The Dann flip will go a long way to helping me sort Black.

[Luca Blight]

I guess I kinda like Drew wanting to back Luca into a corner

it was unnecessary - I had made the statement earlier of my own accord that i won't be voting anyone but the Bugs slot this game.

As for your 437, I appreciate the effort, but you're wasting your time trying to convince me when I've seen enough from your slot already to know its alignment. The fact that you don't trust my ability to read players correctly is irrelevant when yours is the slot I'm pushing. My conviction regarding Bugs isn't only based on meta - I think they were scummy independently in this game, but the meta is what makes me 100% sure as I've followed this exact pattern at least twice before, which I've documented in this thread. Even their reaction (or lack thereof) to my push is exactly the same as the games I've caught them as scum previously. This is why I was able to predict their lack of content and disengagement long before their replace-out. But forget meta - that's for me, and others can trust me on it or not. There has been enough to eliminate your slot from what has transpired in this game, independent from anything else.

I like your bit of emotional manipulation at the end, by the way. Don't worry, I won't be blaming anyone if I end up with egg on my face - I'll take full responsibility. For what it's worth, I think you've done a good job as the replacement and perhaps you could even turn the tide, but my vote (when I eventually decide to vote) is never leaving you.

[Luca Blight]

VOTE: ketchup

i think this is a better vote by far right now

OutWorld, you've seen me catch Bugs first-hand in such a manner in the game I linked earlier, and you've been suspicious of that slot as well since the beginning of the game. Let's eliminate Dann today and ketchup's alignment will become clearer as a result.

[Luca Blight]

227 feels LAMIST to me and I don't think it makes sense for Jacob to get off the bug wagon if he thinks Luca's read is accurate. Feels more like he wants to give Dannflor a chance to save himself

I want to know how Black went from suspecting Dann and Jacob of being partners in crime to then voting Project along with Dann?

This whole progressions reads incredibly fake to me. The last sentence is quite ironic also.

I mulled Dann's 321 over for awhile and decided I want to let him get his footing in the game. My reads are pretty fluid so you should probably get used to that

So does that mean you still scumread Dann and Jacob? I'm a little confused.

[Luca Blight]

it kind of seems like you want to hurry up and kill me before i become a threat, black

I think you're scum and I don't want you weaseling your way out of being faded like I know you are completely capable of doing as scum

What happened to this mindset you displayed not so long ago?

[Luca Blight]

Luca what are your thoughts on Project?

I don't have any real thoughts on them yet. i'll check their ISO again just to see if anything pops up.

In the meantime, could you explain your change of heart regarding Jacob recently?

[Luca Blight]

I feel like Project's points against Ketchup have been quite fair and well-considered. I agreed with a few of his observations. But other than that I really can't give a confident read. Probably a slight-town lean, but I'm conscious of the fact he is playing a safe kind of game so far.

[Luca Blight]

Dann is good at wiggling out of bad situations,

but bug was scummy from their first post

. Also with the meta involved.

I'm having a hard time believing you actually believe this. What is so scummy about bug's posts outside of Luca's meta case?

I didn't just make a 'meta case' - I explained why Bugs' posts were scummy in 145.

[Luca Blight]

Sometimes I wonder if people actually bother to read half of what I write.

I guess I'm feeling a little better about Black anyway. I have some new ideas but need to see from content from a few first.

[Luca Blight]

Dann is good at wiggling out of bad situations,

but bug was scummy from their first post

. Also with the meta involved.

I'm having a hard time believing you actually believe this. What is so scummy about bug's posts outside of Luca's meta case?

I didn't just make a 'meta case' - I explained why Bugs' posts were scummy in 145.

I would rather hear what posts Hu Tao thinks is scummy

Ok. It's just a little grating when people keep referring to it (and even dismissing it) as a 'meta case' when I've made plenty of other points as well.

[Luca Blight]

Sometimes I wonder if people actually bother to read half of what I write.

I saw that post. I just think there's a chance you're plagued by confbias

So do you not agree with anything I wrote in that post?

[Luca Blight]

VOTE: ProjEctRy

Stay the course of Dann. He's scum

Eh. Maybe. I'm not getting much solving energy from Project. That energy is kinda oozing out of Dann's pores

What about Delta?

[Luca Blight]

Or Gypyx, for that matter.

[Luca Blight]

Sometimes I wonder if people actually bother to read half of what I write.

I saw that post. I just think there's a chance you're plagued by confbias

So do you not agree with anything I wrote in that post?

Not particularly. I can go over why in more detail later when I get to my PC

Ok, that would be nice.

[Luca Blight]

I was going to hold this back to see how things develop - but I'm about to go to bed soon so here it goes: I actually think Outworld is scum alongside Dann. The sudden flip and hard push on Ketchup upon Dann's replace-in pinged me very hard indeed.

The other scum I would say is most likely among the quiet ones, perhaps Delta if I were to guess. I'm currently townreading Ketchup.

[Luca Blight]

"Sudden flip"? I've been suspicious of ketchup pretty much since the game started, and started pushing him when new evidence suggested that the other scumread I was pushing (bugs/Dann) could've been wrong.

Sudden change in energy and direction, shall we say. Yes, you've been suspicious of both Bugs and Ketchup since early on, and, from my perspective, it feels like you've been itching to get off the Bugs wagon for a while now (for no good reason), and when a more capable partner entered the fray you positively leapt at the opportunity. I don't get the sense you were ever really committed to your Bugs vote.

[Luca Blight]

Black if you're not feeling the bug wagon will you vote ketchup with me?

This, if Dann flips red, looks terrible given the timing - Bugs had four votes, five if you include me.

[Luca Blight]

Maybe I'm delaying the inevitable, but if Dann flips town then at least I know I wasn't part of it.

I don't think scum ever says this out loud

But why would Town say it? There's a difference between "I think Dann is town so I'm not voting him" or "I think there's a better vote than Dann here" and what ketchup is actually saying in that post, which is entirely focused on his own image.

I also think

far

too much is being made of Ketchup's 323.

I feel Ketchup has had a lot of townie content which OutWorld ignores, and he pounces on this comment by ketchup which, as others have acknowledged, actually makes more sense coming from a townie not trying to appear 'good' than from scum.

[Luca Blight]

ower are you scum reading me

I was scumreading bugs and that largely carried over to you

it might be shifting though because I'm mulling over in my head if ketchup's post implies being informed about your alignment

This is so fake. It's such a weak excuse to drop his suspicion of Dann and wagon Ketchup instead.

[Luca Blight]

I mean, yes, you're correct in that I wasn't really committed to the Bugs wagon; It was the first vote I made this game off of some slightly-better-than-rvs reasoning. You're also correct in that for the most part I've wanted to switch my vote to ketchup for a while now; I didn't previously because I still had the feeling that Bugs/Dann could flip scum and didn't want to dilute the votes by pushing a vanity wagon. I now feel that Dann's less likely to flip scum and so I switched to ketchup.

No, I think if you were town and genuinely scumread ketchup more then you would have voted him earlier. The reason you stayed on the Bugs wagon as long as you did was because you were worried about how it might be perceived - Bugs at one point probably seemed like an irredeemable slot, and you needed to be seen to be pushing that elimination. You tested the waters by seeing if Black could be persuaded into voting Ketchup, and then otherwise waited until Dann replaced in, at which point you so eagerly jumped from that wagon while using flimsy reasoning regarding Ketchup's 323.

[Luca Blight]

Scum is Dann/OutWorld + one of: Delta, Project, iavh, Psyche, Gypyx. My guess is that Delta is the last scum, but there's not much to go on. Psyche is a real possibility too, actually.

I'm off to bed now.

[Luca Blight]

I didn't see Ketchup's join date when I made my vote. But Black is right, you need to quit it with this line of argument. You can't assume that everyone who susses you, somehow knows you're town (if you really are.)

Anything else to add? You've posted about no-one other than ketchup all game.

[Luca Blight]

VOTE: ketchup

i think this is a better vote by far right now

OutWorld, you've seen me catch Bugs first-hand in such a manner in the game I linked earlier, and you've been suspicious of that slot as well since the beginning of the game.

Let's eliminate Dann today and ketchup's alignment will become clearer as a result

.

thats another thing too

it kinda feels like ketchup knows that dann flips town

*Makes no sense at this stage, that should have read.

For some reason,

Bugs asking Ketchup if they were an alt pinged me as a potential partner interaction at that point in time as well

.

I just wanted to say that if Ketchup is indeed scum, then you're doing a terrific job! Just don't defend your buddy so obviously next time ;)

I know you didn't write both sides of the argument, but it seems like I'm getting condemned if Dann gets voted out whatever he flips. If he's mafia, I didn't vote him because I was his teamie. If he's town, I didn't vote him because I knew he was town and was trying to look good.

I may full well be responsible for driving myself into this corner, but if Dann does eventually end up getting flipped, I'm interested how I can emerge in a positive light.

It would've been prime time to jump on the Bugswagon (before the replacement happened) if I wanted to not look guilty as a mafia. But I assure you, I've sticked to not voting him because I don't want to be a lazy sheep townie, even though I feared I might incriminate myself a bit.

Also heads up, for this weekend only I will be a lot less active from around 10am GBT - 10pm GBT, as meeting with friends and stuff. But I'll try make sure I can always get something in mornings and afternoons and I'll still read everything obvs (:

I think you're just likely to be town in general at this point.

[Luca Blight]

Ok Drew isn't my number 1 suspect atm and the attempt to pressurise didn't really get anywhere. Not liking Drew's posts in general but if my other top suspect is getting voted for let's try them again.

VOTE: ProjectRy

Something that has to be considered is also the the concept of the '

informative elimination'

.

I'm really hoping the lurkers in general contribute a great deal more before the end of the day, but as things stand eliminating Dann (even if he flips Town, which I highly doubt) will give us a lot more to go on going forward than eliminating a random lurker, for which we might as well be drawing from a hat. Of course, when it comes to lurker eliminations, scum have the upper hand as they know which lurker is scum and which isn't, so the chances of hitting scum are small.

[Luca Blight]

Entertaining thoughts of a Dann / Black scumteam tbh

Been there, done that.

I do get the impression Black is most likely Town now. Please focus your attention on Dann/OutWorld and tell me what you think.

[Luca Blight]

UNVOTE:

it's really hard to get a confident scum read in this environment

I don't get why you would unvote Project here - has he even posted since you voted him?

[Luca Blight]

lowkey pretty sure outworlder is just already out of his scum range

Can you elaborate on why you think this is, as I completely disagree.

[Luca Blight]

UNVOTE:

it's really hard to get a confident scum read in this environment

I don't get why you would unvote Project here - has he even posted since you voted him?

rethought project and i think he leans town now

the vote isn't useful either way he's not active enough

Why do you think he's Town?

[Luca Blight]

Natural? Come on, this was fake asf:

ower are you scum reading me

I was scumreading bugs and that largely carried over to you

it might be shifting though because I'm mulling over in my head if ketchup's post implies being informed about your alignment

[Luca Blight]

Late p14, early p15 just screams out to me a coordinated manoeuvre between Dann and OutWorld against Ketchup. Dann allowing himself to be talked over in such a way against a player he previously townread is sketchy to say the least.

[Luca Blight]

ignore the first quote

Can I get you to explain your change of read regarding Project?

[Luca Blight]

Psyche also looks a bit dodgy upon a Dann red flip:

eggh sure dann is smooth but i honestly don't think bugspray made any scummy posts past their first one

if the incoherence in later posts were performative i feel like it wouldve been played more as silly/detached than it was

even w all the wild stuff there's a consistency of tone across the iso that i think someone not really believing those things would have had trouble committing to

The fact Psyche scumread Bugs' opening, and then Bugs did nothing to redeem that first bad impression, certainly doesn't warrant a defence at this juncture, especially when Psyche has nothing better to offer up instead.

Dann/OutWorld/Psyche, I'm calling it now.

Of course, with the unreadable lurkers in the game there are still some variables at play.

[Luca Blight]

Luca how would you differenciate a townie who's just wrong from scum trying to divert?

It's on a case by case basis. For example, I've come to the conclusion that Ketchup and Black are misguided townies, but nothing about OutWorld or Psyche's progressions ring true for me.

With Psyche, he has gone from suspecting Bugs right out of the gate, to then doing nothing but defend the slot upon Dann's replace-in, for no justifiable reason that I can see. He doesn't even have another scumread - he is just trying to raise doubts about the suspicion people have about Dann. Psyche has now even changed his mind about Bugs' opening post being scummy!

I get the feeling this is a desperate scum team who know they need Dann to survive the day to have any chance of winning this.

[Luca Blight]

Although maybe scratch the bit about Psyche changing his mind about Bugs' opening post - I think i misread what he said.

[Luca Blight]

do you think bugs made more than one scummy post?

Yes, I do:
145

[Luca Blight]

Psyche, part of the problem here for me is you're defending Dann but offering nothing up in return.

If we shouldn't eliminate Dann, then who?

[Luca Blight]

i'll figure it out eventually, but in the meantime it's still helpful to try to keep town from getting limmed

It seems to me that, based on what you've posted, Bugs has made the scummiest post of the game in your view.

Is that an accurate assessment?

[Luca Blight]

i don't really like to spend time doing this, but 145 is frankly all junk

you assert that bugs made more than one perspective slip. "perspective slips" and "scum pt slips" aren't a real thing. at best they're extremely rare. but the idea that bugs did it repeatedly over like a 5 post timeframe is ridiculous. how many times have you ever perspective slipped in a game as scum? on a similar vein, you repeatedly note that bugs fails to follow the context of what's being written, but only imply that this is scummy without ever engaging w the question of why someone being really bad at reading could say anything about whether they got a town or scum role pm. it doesn't. this set of accusations effectively requires that bugspray be, er, not very good at thinking, but never even considers the possibility that this observation about bugs' abilities could explain in a nai way pretty much every feature of bugs's play, even their first post.

also, you repeatedly cast survivalism -- trying not to get limmed -- as scummy. but town are at least as motivated as scum to not get limmed, both theoretically and empirically. stuff like deflecting attention, appealling to emotions, and so on are totally common responses by any type of player to scrutiny and again you don't attempt to think through how these things you don't like about bugs's posts actually suggest a scum win condition.

there's not enough weighing of alternative explanations here. you're taking things you don't like about bugs' play and handwaving the steps that explain why this play is more likely to come from scum than town.

I've definitely caught players such as Aaron Frost and I think even Bugs pt slipping in a past, so that most definitely is a thing, although that's not what I'm accusing them of in this game. Perspective slipping also definitely is a thing - it just takes some observational skills in order to notice, but scum by their very nature have a different perspective to a townie player - that's the name of the game. Have I ever done it as scum? probably, but I wouldn't know, as I'd be looking at it from a scum perspective and not a town one.

You've misunderstood the finer details of my case, especially regarding the pt slip - Bugs halfheartedly agreed with my observation about Delta pt slipping, but then shades me at the same time, and forgets all about it and votes you for while in a desperate whirl of emotion. Yes, townies get emotional too, but this is a disengaged scum player who is finding it hard to summon the motivation to read the posts properly, and from my experience with Bugs is definitely a scum tell after they've been caught out. Bugs knows what happens when I catch them out early - it doesn't end well for them, hence throwing in the towel without even trying to challenge my points.

I at least understand where you're misguidedly coming from, so I'll consider that maybe I was wrong about you being Dann's partner.

[Luca Blight]

hey quick tip for the future luca

scum are actually generally much more concerned with looking consistent in their reads and who they are agreeing/disagreeing with than scum

Context is everything.

[Luca Blight]

i'm going to avoid having a back and forth about this though unless dann's lim really seems imminent.

i expect i'll follow up with specific players to try to understand whether their votes are convincingly motivated and so on but i agree that providing a better alternative would be the best use of my time.

Same. I'll convince you later if I have to. This has helped me sort you as more likely town anyway, so I appreciate your explanations.

[Luca Blight]

btw i still have not read the posts you want me to read.
who does you refer to? it refers to you. the mafia player reading this

This is a disengaged player who will continue to draw out inactivity until their inevitable elimination at the end of the day, in the vain hope that people get distracted and another wagon will emerge. I've seen this pattern many times now. I say 'vain hope', perhaps not - in the meta I provided earlier I had Bugs pegged as scum from early day 1 but they managed to somehow survive until D3.

Town!Bugs is proactive and inquisitive, scum!bugs pretty much throws in the towel when caught. I don't expect much content from Bugs during this day phase.

how do you intepret the replace out

I interpret it as someone who doesn't like playing scum knowing that I have caught them out once again, and not having the motivation to try to turn the tide as they know from past experience how relentless I am when I'm sure of my read.

I knew Bugs would not contribute anything this day phase after my attack, and I thought a replace-out was possible although of course I hoped it wouldn't happen. Town!Bugs can be lazy too, but they do actually try to solve the game on some level at least and would have at responded to my challenge on some level, at least to mock me for being wrong despite my confidence for example.

[Luca Blight]

I'm now more confident in Project being Town.

I completely agree about Ketchup - his tone continues to ping me every now and then, but I do believe he is Town also.

[Luca Blight]

Townie Bloc (in no particular order): ketchup, Project, Psyche, gypyx, probably Black as well

If Dann is indeed scum then I can safely add Jacob, maybe Hu Tao. probably Drew too, upon review.

If Dann is somehow Town then Drew will be someone I'll be looking at pretty hard. Gypyx would drop down a category too.

Scum: Dann/OutWorld/either Delta or iavh.

[Luca Blight]

I don't believe this is a natural Townie interaction:

thats another thing too it kinda feels like ketchup knows that dann flips town

hmmmmm

i can see it

I don't think Dann would be swayed from his confident Ketchup TR by OutWorld's reasoning, based on Ketchup's 323, which is in keeping with Ketchup's tone in general this game. It's a convenient way to walk back his read, which might later become inconvenient with too few mislim candidates.

[Luca Blight]

i am not that bad at this game

That's my point - As Town I don't think you'd be swayed by such poor reasoning. If anything, Ketchup's 323 is +town.

[Luca Blight]

Luca, do you feel your Dann wagon is all town rn? Or I guess more specifically what makes you convinced scum is scrambling to save him rather than bussing him?

I've given my reads already on the other page.

I feel as though you're trying to save Dann, after having done your distancing work against Bugs earlier in the day. The other scum, probably Delta or iavh, is staying neutral/in the background. Of course it's possible someone like Drew could be bussing, but that analysis can wait for later. Right now I feel inclined to say that he wouldn't have been goading me onto the Dann wagon and trying to back me into a corner regarding it if they were partners, but I could be wrong about that. Gypyx could be bussing also, but her interaction with Dann felt genuine from her end.

[Luca Blight]

I just wanted to add one more thing before I go out - the fact that you (OutWorld) switched so quickly from heavily suspecting Bugs to giving Dann the benefit of the doubt, and then jumping on a tenuous reason to vote Ketchup instead, is mightily suspicious.

I feel as though you would have remained on the Bugs wagon had they not replaced out, while hoping people would compromise on Ketchup instead, but in Dann you saw an opportunity to turn the tide on this, given his reputation for being a competent scum player. I feel like you got a little too excited upon his replace-in and gave yourself away, OutWorld.

[Luca Blight]

It's called reframing. One way of explaining something may not be understood or resonate the same as another.

[Luca Blight]

what did you intend for me to understand that I apparently didn't get the first time around?

Well, you asked me why I thought scum were scrambling to save Damn so I explained my thought process further, as clearly you still wanted more information about that. But overall it was more for the benefit of those I need to convince.

[Luca Blight]

I'm getting a little impatient for the likes of Delta to get into the game. She is due a prod any minute now, so hopefully this will change soon. I think I have enough reads to go on for now anyway, so let's start to bring the day to a close.

VOTE: Dannflor

[Luca Blight]

The floor is yours.

[Luca Blight]

I think it's Dann/OutWorld/iavh right now as well.

I guess we shall see.

[Luca Blight]

I just woke up. My first impression is that I still scumread OutWorld more than anyone, but I won't become tunnelled like D1 and I'm going to read through again carefully.

[Luca Blight]

I just woke up. My first impression is that I still scumread OutWorld more than anyone, but I won't become tunnelled like D1 and I'm going to read through again carefully.

I'm curious about this because the impression I got of your scumread on me from yesterday is that you were entirely working backwards from the basis of "dann is scum". What's making you scumread me still?

I still think the switch to Ketchup looked fake although obviously not for the same motivations, and in hindsight I think you would have pushed harder than you did to keep Dann alive if you were Town - it was kind of a half-hearted attempt, which I first read as scum reluctant to make their defence too obvious.

But as I said, I'll give you a fair chance and I don't want to become bogged down like I did on D1.

[Luca Blight]

Spoiler:

I'm just gonna vomit forth my thoughts because I feel a bit sick whenever I look at this game anyway.

Hu Tao - lean town, I guess. Kind of a shitty town read because it's based on the idea that I think Hu Tao would be trying to play better / appear as if they were playing better as scum. Like, as it is, their D1 play consists of tunneling a town slot and not in a way that makes them optically look good like Luca Blight. I just think there might be more preparation and awareness on scum!HuTao's part about how they will look after I flip. I guess she could be scum but I don't really feel it.

Gypyx - also feel town? idk I think the way they immediately had a thought about Jacob on replacing in was towny. I think their kinda wibbly wobbly progression on me has been towny? I just town read their tone a lot I think.

ProjEctRy - I liked Psyche's read here. I think Projectry believes in his Ketchup push. I think the indignation about people's scum reads on him is towny. I think there is an empathy in his posts towards Ketchup that I wouldn't expect from a scum pushing a townie. I think 650 speaks to someone trying to sort the alignments of people pushing him.

Dannflor - a shining radiant beacon of towniness. pure of soul and pure of heart.

Luca Blight - I admit I have had doubts here. Especially when I spied that Luca Blight has last played mafia years ago and he is still projecting so much confidence on the bugspray read. but gun to head I still think this slot is town and I won't elaborate because that's fairly consensus. (btw it is fairly consensus because Luca Blight is useful to scum and they want to keep him going)

Jacob24 - I think Jacob's outrage in 283 rings true. I guess i found their outrage in the beginning about mindless reads to ring true. This is one of my weakest town reads tbh.

iamveryhappy - could be scum. I expect like an ounce of game advancing content from iavh at this point if they are town but i haven't seen that. they made one post about how im prob scum without really any context.

ketchup777 - I think he's just town. I understand the scum reads and I think the way ketchup phrases a lot of his posts is somewhat performative and surface level scummy. idk I don't think ketchup goes back and forth on my slot in the way that he did if he's scum. I think he fully commits to like hard defending me or not, not the sort of half-assed defense he did.

Psyche - similar read as above, but I think psyche picks a lane when it comes to my slot. They've gone from wanting to white knight to being possibly ambivalent. I think generally there is a depth of thought here that comes from town. I think they've gone against the grain but not in a way that really makes them optically look good.

DeltaWave - i think this is scum. I think the fact that Delta realized ketchup was a newbie in 505 but didn't unvote until 664 is emblematic of someone who isn't really fluidly thinking about the game. I think the line to ketchup about "needing to quit this line of argument" is reminiscent of scum only finding validity in arguments that are "factually correct," it's not really interested in ketchup's alignment.

To be honest, I think DeltaWave reading 228 straight and calling it "so, so, so bad" is a scum tell. I think scum are more likely to take non-serious posts seriously for the most part and again, the defense of Drew seems more based in "this argument is factually inconsistent" not "this argument is scum motivated." I also think the town read on Luca is exactly the position scum would be taking up right now. There's too many scum reads and not in a towny way.

Black - gun to head town. Unfortunately, I don't have as much confidence on this read (or many of my reads) as I am used to. I blame the position I've been forced into in this game. Overall, I think the way Black has treated my slot leans town. I think her shift from wanting to resolve my slot to giving me some time was natural. I think she believes in her push on Projectry. again, I've historically managed to get very confident reads on black but wasn't in a position to do that this game. still would say town if I had to choose.

Doctor Drew - still kinda think this is scum. I think DeltaWave is scummier at the moment but Drew is a good pick for partner and I still don't really have anything to town read from Drew's slot. Drew continually shading ketchup as I get run up is not really a good look, I feel like he's setting up for me to claim PR or something and wants a backup option. there hasn't really been an evaluation of who might be scum pending my scum flip, which drew seems to feel pretty strongly about. Luca meanwhile is trying different solves based on my flip, but Drew seems content just to OMGUS and leave it at that. maybe my expectations are too high but I expect more from town!drew here.

OutWorldER - never kill this, probably my most confident town read. i think there is a night and day difference between OWER's scum and town game and i think this is his town game. i think he really believes in his ketchup push. etc, etc,

*****

so like, if I run with all my reads then my solve ends up being Delta Wave/Doctor Drew/iamveryhappy

That's not really the most satisfying solve to me. It feels like 3 kinda LHF, but that's honestly where I'm at and I don't think I'm gonna really be able to evolve beyond that given my position here.

Currently, I feel strongest about Delta Wave as far as scum reads go.

I feel strongest about OWER as far as town reads go. If I were to ask that any of my reads are to be sheeped, those are the two I would ask to be sheeped if I die.

I know it's easy to say in hindsight, but this was actually a really Townie post, but unfortunately I was asleep at the time and the hammer happened before I had the chance to wake. I like to think I might have at least had pause for thought based on this, but unfortunately we'll never know.

[Luca Blight]

Spoiler:

ahh dang it

704 is very good, but I took another look at Bugs' posts though, and decided that 158 and 165 do read more like a mafia player. As town's purpose is to have fun finding the mafia players, I don't think town!bugspray would've not tried at all.

I saw a couple other people using the exclamation mark notation forgive me if it means something I'm not aware of (:

here goes

a lot riding on this

I'm sorry because I can tell 704 must have taken a while and it feels like a waste killing you. But I'm going to commit. Someone said you had a case for the #1 player and so I can imagine you'd be capable of a long defence regardless of alignment. You said you read this game beforehand so you knew it would be an uphill battle and you were prepared for that. Did Obi-Wan not teach you that having the high ground is important? Or will this be a battle of hastings situation where you pull some awesome move and then backstab us? Who knows? One of OutWorldEr, Black, iavh, Project, Psyche or Gypyx.

grabs popcorn

VOTE: Dannflor

I don't like the timing of this vote. Ketchup townreads Dann's slot all game based on tenuous reasoning, and then puts Dann to E-1 despite the fact that Dann just made a really townie post, that even Ketchup agrees is a good post.

I have to do some work now so will return to this later.

[Luca Blight]

Spoiler:

I'm just gonna vomit forth my thoughts because I feel a bit sick whenever I look at this game anyway.

Hu Tao - lean town, I guess. Kind of a shitty town read because it's based on the idea that I think Hu Tao would be trying to play better / appear as if they were playing better as scum. Like, as it is, their D1 play consists of tunneling a town slot and not in a way that makes them optically look good like Luca Blight. I just think there might be more preparation and awareness on scum!HuTao's part about how they will look after I flip. I guess she could be scum but I don't really feel it.

Gypyx - also feel town? idk I think the way they immediately had a thought about Jacob on replacing in was towny. I think their kinda wibbly wobbly progression on me has been towny? I just town read their tone a lot I think.

ProjEctRy - I liked Psyche's read here. I think Projectry believes in his Ketchup push. I think the indignation about people's scum reads on him is towny. I think there is an empathy in his posts towards Ketchup that I wouldn't expect from a scum pushing a townie. I think 650 speaks to someone trying to sort the alignments of people pushing him.

Dannflor - a shining radiant beacon of towniness. pure of soul and pure of heart.

Luca Blight - I admit I have had doubts here. Especially when I spied that Luca Blight has last played mafia years ago and he is still projecting so much confidence on the bugspray read. but gun to head I still think this slot is town and I won't elaborate because that's fairly consensus. (btw it is fairly consensus because Luca Blight is useful to scum and they want to keep him going)

Jacob24 - I think Jacob's outrage in 283 rings true. I guess i found their outrage in the beginning about mindless reads to ring true. This is one of my weakest town reads tbh.

iamveryhappy - could be scum. I expect like an ounce of game advancing content from iavh at this point if they are town but i haven't seen that. they made one post about how im prob scum without really any context.

ketchup777 - I think he's just town. I understand the scum reads and I think the way ketchup phrases a lot of his posts is somewhat performative and surface level scummy. idk I don't think ketchup goes back and forth on my slot in the way that he did if he's scum. I think he fully commits to like hard defending me or not, not the sort of half-assed defense he did.

Psyche - similar read as above, but I think psyche picks a lane when it comes to my slot. They've gone from wanting to white knight to being possibly ambivalent. I think generally there is a depth of thought here that comes from town. I think they've gone against the grain but not in a way that really makes them optically look good.

DeltaWave - i think this is scum. I think the fact that Delta realized ketchup was a newbie in 505 but didn't unvote until 664 is emblematic of someone who isn't really fluidly thinking about the game. I think the line to ketchup about "needing to quit this line of argument" is reminiscent of scum only finding validity in arguments that are "factually correct," it's not really interested in ketchup's alignment.

To be honest, I think DeltaWave reading 228 straight and calling it "so, so, so bad" is a scum tell. I think scum are more likely to take non-serious posts seriously for the most part and again, the defense of Drew seems more based in "this argument is factually inconsistent" not "this argument is scum motivated." I also think the town read on Luca is exactly the position scum would be taking up right now. There's too many scum reads and not in a towny way.

Black - gun to head town. Unfortunately, I don't have as much confidence on this read (or many of my reads) as I am used to. I blame the position I've been forced into in this game. Overall, I think the way Black has treated my slot leans town. I think her shift from wanting to resolve my slot to giving me some time was natural. I think she believes in her push on Projectry. again, I've historically managed to get very confident reads on black but wasn't in a position to do that this game. still would say town if I had to choose.

Doctor Drew - still kinda think this is scum. I think DeltaWave is scummier at the moment but Drew is a good pick for partner and I still don't really have anything to town read from Drew's slot. Drew continually shading ketchup as I get run up is not really a good look, I feel like he's setting up for me to claim PR or something and wants a backup option. there hasn't really been an evaluation of who might be scum pending my scum flip, which drew seems to feel pretty strongly about. Luca meanwhile is trying different solves based on my flip, but Drew seems content just to OMGUS and leave it at that. maybe my expectations are too high but I expect more from town!drew here.

OutWorldER - never kill this, probably my most confident town read. i think there is a night and day difference between OWER's scum and town game and i think this is his town game. i think he really believes in his ketchup push. etc, etc,

*****

so like, if I run with all my reads then my solve ends up being Delta Wave/Doctor Drew/iamveryhappy

That's not really the most satisfying solve to me. It feels like 3 kinda LHF, but that's honestly where I'm at and I don't think I'm gonna really be able to evolve beyond that given my position here.

Currently, I feel strongest about Delta Wave as far as scum reads go.

I feel strongest about OWER as far as town reads go. If I were to ask that any of my reads are to be sheeped, those are the two I would ask to be sheeped if I die.

I know it's easy to say in hindsight, but this was actually a really Townie post, but unfortunately I was asleep at the time and the hammer happened before I had the chance to wake. I like to think I might have at least had pause for thought based on this, but unfortunately we'll never know.

Yet you said you never would vote anywhere but Bug/Dann

Because I was utterly convinced that they were scum, but of course if I had a real reason to believe otherwise then I would have reconsidered. Of course, I now know Dann's alignment so it's easy to say looking back, although I did have a bad feeling he was flipping town when I read his last interactions while I was skimming through to see the flip.

[Luca Blight]

Luca Blight do not do this again

I pushed my biggest scumread with conviction, so I absolutely will do that again. If only you had done posts like 704 earlier in the day, I might well have reconsidered, but you did nothing before then to really make me reconsider my read.

[Luca Blight]

Town:
OutWorldER
Psyche
ketchup

Lean town: (this is my could be wrong tier)
gypyx, black, projectry, luca blight

mixed: jacob

scum lean: doctor drew, iavh

scum: deltawave

This post hasn't aged well. At least it makes me feel a bit better about being wrong D1.

[Luca Blight]

How often do you see scum killing an unusual target like Delta, someone that was likely to generate heat on them the next day?

It feels like a complete random kill, from which nothing can be deduced. Is that common?

It actually happens a lot from my experience.

Scum tend to go for low-info kills who could also end up being PR's, and won't be protected by a possible doc.

[Luca Blight]

ok pipe dream scumteam : Black / Project / Psyche who are trying to push us towards killing on the wagon

where do you think the scum were in relation to the dann wagon then?

i think dann's wagon going through with no real counterwagon is probably indicative of at least 1 or 2 being on his elim

I think this is a bad take. With the game state as it was, with me (a consensus town read) pushing Dann's lim so hard and even stating I would vote no-one else, scum would have had no reason to overly-push the wagon that would most likely be mislimmed, especially when no scum player was likely to be limmed that day.

Scum most likely played it a bit like OutWorld - half-defending the doomed Dann slot, or Ketchup, townreading the slot all day and voting only when it started actually looking town, and thus potentially becoming more of a threat.

So basically, there's not a whole lot to read into the wagons imo as scum wouldn't have been pressed to do anything, so any variation of being off or on the wagon is possible. Only the context and reasoning behind such votes, like Ketchup's, are going to be scum-indicative.

[Luca Blight]

like from my POV I thought Dann was fairly townie once he was allowed to get going so I just don't believe that there weren't scum riding Luca's tunnel all the way to his mislim

Probably too easy to read Dann's slot as townie when you already know his alignment. There was nothing particularly indicative of him being town until later in the day, when his fate was virtually sealed, in my opinion.

[Luca Blight]

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

I'm just gonna vomit forth my thoughts because I feel a bit sick whenever I look at this game anyway.

Hu Tao - lean town, I guess. Kind of a shitty town read because it's based on the idea that I think Hu Tao would be trying to play better / appear as if they were playing better as scum. Like, as it is, their D1 play consists of tunneling a town slot and not in a way that makes them optically look good like Luca Blight. I just think there might be more preparation and awareness on scum!HuTao's part about how they will look after I flip. I guess she could be scum but I don't really feel it.

Gypyx - also feel town? idk I think the way they immediately had a thought about Jacob on replacing in was towny. I think their kinda wibbly wobbly progression on me has been towny? I just town read their tone a lot I think.

ProjEctRy - I liked Psyche's read here. I think Projectry believes in his Ketchup push. I think the indignation about people's scum reads on him is towny. I think there is an empathy in his posts towards Ketchup that I wouldn't expect from a scum pushing a townie. I think 650 speaks to someone trying to sort the alignments of people pushing him.

Dannflor - a shining radiant beacon of towniness. pure of soul and pure of heart.

Luca Blight - I admit I have had doubts here. Especially when I spied that Luca Blight has last played mafia years ago and he is still projecting so much confidence on the bugspray read. but gun to head I still think this slot is town and I won't elaborate because that's fairly consensus. (btw it is fairly consensus because Luca Blight is useful to scum and they want to keep him going)

Jacob24 - I think Jacob's outrage in 283 rings true. I guess i found their outrage in the beginning about mindless reads to ring true. This is one of my weakest town reads tbh.

iamveryhappy - could be scum. I expect like an ounce of game advancing content from iavh at this point if they are town but i haven't seen that. they made one post about how im prob scum without really any context.

ketchup777 - I think he's just town. I understand the scum reads and I think the way ketchup phrases a lot of his posts is somewhat performative and surface level scummy. idk I don't think ketchup goes back and forth on my slot in the way that he did if he's scum. I think he fully commits to like hard defending me or not, not the sort of half-assed defense he did.

Psyche - similar read as above, but I think psyche picks a lane when it comes to my slot. They've gone from wanting to white knight to being possibly ambivalent. I think generally there is a depth of thought here that comes from town. I think they've gone against the grain but not in a way that really makes them optically look good.

DeltaWave - i think this is scum. I think the fact that Delta realized ketchup was a newbie in 505 but didn't unvote until 664 is emblematic of someone who isn't really fluidly thinking about the game. I think the line to ketchup about "needing to quit this line of argument" is reminiscent of scum only finding validity in arguments that are "factually correct," it's not really interested in ketchup's alignment.

To be honest, I think DeltaWave reading 228 straight and calling it "so, so, so bad" is a scum tell. I think scum are more likely to take non-serious posts seriously for the most part and again, the defense of Drew seems more based in "this argument is factually inconsistent" not "this argument is scum motivated." I also think the town read on Luca is exactly the position scum would be taking up right now. There's too many scum reads and not in a towny way.

Black - gun to head town. Unfortunately, I don't have as much confidence on this read (or many of my reads) as I am used to. I blame the position I've been forced into in this game. Overall, I think the way Black has treated my slot leans town. I think her shift from wanting to resolve my slot to giving me some time was natural. I think she believes in her push on Projectry. again, I've historically managed to get very confident reads on black but wasn't in a position to do that this game. still would say town if I had to choose.

Doctor Drew - still kinda think this is scum. I think DeltaWave is scummier at the moment but Drew is a good pick for partner and I still don't really have anything to town read from Drew's slot. Drew continually shading ketchup as I get run up is not really a good look, I feel like he's setting up for me to claim PR or something and wants a backup option. there hasn't really been an evaluation of who might be scum pending my scum flip, which drew seems to feel pretty strongly about. Luca meanwhile is trying different solves based on my flip, but Drew seems content just to OMGUS and leave it at that. maybe my expectations are too high but I expect more from town!drew here.

OutWorldER - never kill this, probably my most confident town read. i think there is a night and day difference between OWER's scum and town game and i think this is his town game. i think he really believes in his ketchup push. etc, etc,

*****

so like, if I run with all my reads then my solve ends up being Delta Wave/Doctor Drew/iamveryhappy

That's not really the most satisfying solve to me. It feels like 3 kinda LHF, but that's honestly where I'm at and I don't think I'm gonna really be able to evolve beyond that given my position here.

Currently, I feel strongest about Delta Wave as far as scum reads go.

I feel strongest about OWER as far as town reads go. If I were to ask that any of my reads are to be sheeped, those are the two I would ask to be sheeped if I die.

I know it's easy to say in hindsight, but this was actually a really Townie post, but unfortunately I was asleep at the time and the hammer happened before I had the chance to wake. I like to think I might have at least had pause for thought based on this, but unfortunately we'll never know.

Yet you said you never would vote anywhere but Bug/Dann

Because I was utterly convinced that they were scum, but of course if I had a real reason to believe otherwise then I would have reconsidered. Of course, I now know Dann's alignment so it's easy to say looking back, although I did have a bad feeling he was flipping town when I read his last interactions while I was skimming through to see the flip.

Luca Blight do not do this again

I pushed my biggest scumread with conviction, so I absolutely will do that again. If only you had done posts like 704 earlier in the day, I might well have reconsidered, but you did nothing before then to really make me reconsider my read.

Town:
OutWorldER
Psyche
ketchup

Lean town: (this is my could be wrong tier)
gypyx, black, projectry, luca blight

mixed: jacob

scum lean: doctor drew, iavh

scum: deltawave

This post hasn't aged well. At least it makes me feel a bit better about being wrong D1.

I hate these posts

No sign of actual regret or taking responsibility

Specifically the last quoted post, you said your scum read was all about Bug.....yet you are using Dann's read list as a way to say 'oops my bad I guess, but Dann was wrong anyway on his scum read'

VOTE: Luca

I don't really get your point here. My SR was mainly about Bug, but I also hard SR the Dann/OutWorld interactions.

I had regret immediately following the aftermath of the flip, but I've had a couple of days to reflect and digest it now. Overall, I still feel as though I was right to push the slot as I did, and I believe that if Dann had started performing earlier then I would have read him correctly. Unfortunately, due to my time zone I'm often offline when most live interactions occur, and that in the end lead to me not having the chance to ultimately revise my read.

[Luca Blight]

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

I'm just gonna vomit forth my thoughts because I feel a bit sick whenever I look at this game anyway.

Hu Tao - lean town, I guess. Kind of a shitty town read because it's based on the idea that I think Hu Tao would be trying to play better / appear as if they were playing better as scum. Like, as it is, their D1 play consists of tunneling a town slot and not in a way that makes them optically look good like Luca Blight. I just think there might be more preparation and awareness on scum!HuTao's part about how they will look after I flip. I guess she could be scum but I don't really feel it.

Gypyx - also feel town? idk I think the way they immediately had a thought about Jacob on replacing in was towny. I think their kinda wibbly wobbly progression on me has been towny? I just town read their tone a lot I think.

ProjEctRy - I liked Psyche's read here. I think Projectry believes in his Ketchup push. I think the indignation about people's scum reads on him is towny. I think there is an empathy in his posts towards Ketchup that I wouldn't expect from a scum pushing a townie. I think 650 speaks to someone trying to sort the alignments of people pushing him.

Dannflor - a shining radiant beacon of towniness. pure of soul and pure of heart.

Luca Blight - I admit I have had doubts here. Especially when I spied that Luca Blight has last played mafia years ago and he is still projecting so much confidence on the bugspray read. but gun to head I still think this slot is town and I won't elaborate because that's fairly consensus. (btw it is fairly consensus because Luca Blight is useful to scum and they want to keep him going)

Jacob24 - I think Jacob's outrage in 283 rings true. I guess i found their outrage in the beginning about mindless reads to ring true. This is one of my weakest town reads tbh.

iamveryhappy - could be scum. I expect like an ounce of game advancing content from iavh at this point if they are town but i haven't seen that. they made one post about how im prob scum without really any context.

ketchup777 - I think he's just town. I understand the scum reads and I think the way ketchup phrases a lot of his posts is somewhat performative and surface level scummy. idk I don't think ketchup goes back and forth on my slot in the way that he did if he's scum. I think he fully commits to like hard defending me or not, not the sort of half-assed defense he did.

Psyche - similar read as above, but I think psyche picks a lane when it comes to my slot. They've gone from wanting to white knight to being possibly ambivalent. I think generally there is a depth of thought here that comes from town. I think they've gone against the grain but not in a way that really makes them optically look good.

DeltaWave - i think this is scum. I think the fact that Delta realized ketchup was a newbie in 505 but didn't unvote until 664 is emblematic of someone who isn't really fluidly thinking about the game. I think the line to ketchup about "needing to quit this line of argument" is reminiscent of scum only finding validity in arguments that are "factually correct," it's not really interested in ketchup's alignment.

To be honest, I think DeltaWave reading 228 straight and calling it "so, so, so bad" is a scum tell. I think scum are more likely to take non-serious posts seriously for the most part and again, the defense of Drew seems more based in "this argument is factually inconsistent" not "this argument is scum motivated." I also think the town read on Luca is exactly the position scum would be taking up right now. There's too many scum reads and not in a towny way.

Black - gun to head town. Unfortunately, I don't have as much confidence on this read (or many of my reads) as I am used to. I blame the position I've been forced into in this game. Overall, I think the way Black has treated my slot leans town. I think her shift from wanting to resolve my slot to giving me some time was natural. I think she believes in her push on Projectry. again, I've historically managed to get very confident reads on black but wasn't in a position to do that this game. still would say town if I had to choose.

Doctor Drew - still kinda think this is scum. I think DeltaWave is scummier at the moment but Drew is a good pick for partner and I still don't really have anything to town read from Drew's slot. Drew continually shading ketchup as I get run up is not really a good look, I feel like he's setting up for me to claim PR or something and wants a backup option. there hasn't really been an evaluation of who might be scum pending my scum flip, which drew seems to feel pretty strongly about. Luca meanwhile is trying different solves based on my flip, but Drew seems content just to OMGUS and leave it at that. maybe my expectations are too high but I expect more from town!drew here.

OutWorldER - never kill this, probably my most confident town read. i think there is a night and day difference between OWER's scum and town game and i think this is his town game. i think he really believes in his ketchup push. etc, etc,

*****

so like, if I run with all my reads then my solve ends up being Delta Wave/Doctor Drew/iamveryhappy

That's not really the most satisfying solve to me. It feels like 3 kinda LHF, but that's honestly where I'm at and I don't think I'm gonna really be able to evolve beyond that given my position here.

Currently, I feel strongest about Delta Wave as far as scum reads go.

I feel strongest about OWER as far as town reads go. If I were to ask that any of my reads are to be sheeped, those are the two I would ask to be sheeped if I die.

I know it's easy to say in hindsight, but this was actually a really Townie post, but unfortunately I was asleep at the time and the hammer happened before I had the chance to wake. I like to think I might have at least had pause for thought based on this, but unfortunately we'll never know.

Yet you said you never would vote anywhere but Bug/Dann

Because I was utterly convinced that they were scum, but of course if I had a real reason to believe otherwise then I would have reconsidered. Of course, I now know Dann's alignment so it's easy to say looking back, although I did have a bad feeling he was flipping town when I read his last interactions while I was skimming through to see the flip.

Luca Blight do not do this again

I pushed my biggest scumread with conviction, so I absolutely will do that again. If only you had done posts like 704 earlier in the day, I might well have reconsidered, but you did nothing before then to really make me reconsider my read.

Town:
OutWorldER
Psyche
ketchup

Lean town: (this is my could be wrong tier)
gypyx, black, projectry, luca blight

mixed: jacob

scum lean: doctor drew, iavh

scum: deltawave

This post hasn't aged well. At least it makes me feel a bit better about being wrong D1.

I hate these posts

No sign of actual regret or taking responsibility

Specifically the last quoted post, you said your scum read was all about Bug.....yet you are using Dann's read list as a way to say 'oops my bad I guess, but Dann was wrong anyway on his scum read'

VOTE: Luca

I don't really get your point here. My SR was mainly about Bug, but I also hard SR the Dann/OutWorld interactions.

I had regret immediately following the aftermath of the flip, but I've had a couple of days to reflect and digest it now. Overall, I still feel as though I was right to push the slot as I did, and I believe that if Dann had started performing earlier then I would have read him correctly. Unfortunately, due to my time zone I'm often offline when most live interactions occur, and that in the end lead to me not having the chance to ultimately revise my read.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

I cannot post enough of these.

You were so so sooooo sure Bug was scum, now you are back tracking saying Dann could have saved that slot?

Bullllllll.....sheeeeet.

You literally said you were voting that slot no matter what.

Now you are saying, in retrospect, you would have changed if you 'had the time'?

I think Dann's end of day posts were really Townie, to the point that even as I read through I felt as though he was going to flip Town at that moment.

Prior to that, yes, I was indeed sure that he was scum.

[Luca Blight]

And this is why I now SR Ketchup - who voted Dann just as he started posting actually town-indicative content.

[Luca Blight]

I'm pretty sure I have an example of a game like this before where I hard SR a slot and (correctly) changed my mind right at the end of the day and hard defended them. I have to work again now but will see if I can find it later.

[Luca Blight]

like from my POV I thought Dann was fairly townie once he was allowed to get going so I just don't believe that there weren't scum riding Luca's tunnel all the way to his mislim

Probably too easy to read Dann's slot as townie when you already know his alignment.

There was nothing particularly indicative of him being town until later in the day

, when his fate was virtually sealed, in my opinion.

you're saying this like this an objective statement

Well, from what I can see you've never really explained your Dann TR beyond '

he looks townier than Bugs

'. So, while my statement was indeed undeniably subjective, it's difficult to really follow your progression on this read.

[Luca Blight]

And it would have been quite remarkable had Dann

not

at least appeared more townie than his predecessor, regardless of alignment.

[Luca Blight]

I'm pretty sure I have an example of a game like this before where I hard SR a slot and (correctly) changed my mind right at the end of the day and hard defended them. I have to work again now but will see if I can find it later.

Yet you did none of this here this game

That's the point I've been making - I know I didn't, but I believe I might have if the hammer hadn't dropped before I had the chance to come back online. Anyway, it's redundant now.

Here is the game I was thinking of: I was ready to eliminate Menalque, then suddenly turned my opinion around on him and hard-defended him, and he was my biggest TR for the remainder of the game despite previously scumreading him.

viewtopic.php?t=86100

[Luca Blight]

And this is why I now SR Ketchup - who voted Dann just as he started posting actually town-indicative content.

I had a better opportunity to get him to e-1 hundreds of posts earlier if I had wanted to. In the end I was worried I was misreading hypnotic mind games content as town content and wanted to use the chance to get him out and find out before he could charm everyone

Which for me seems like an opportunistic scum mindset - you were concerned about Dann turning the tide and potentially becoming an asset to Town, whereas before you wanted to be on the right side of history following a Dann elimination, which always looked on the cards.

Speaking of '

charming'

everyone, I feel as though this is very much your stock in trade.

[Luca Blight]

Kinda would prefer to be looking at black today i guess but i could indulge in settling on project if that's a vote people feel more comfortable around

The last thing we need right now is a comfortable consensus vote, when scum hold a large percentage of the votes.

[Luca Blight]

Spoiler:

I'm just gonna vomit forth my thoughts because I feel a bit sick whenever I look at this game anyway.

Hu Tao - lean town, I guess. Kind of a shitty town read because it's based on the idea that I think Hu Tao would be trying to play better / appear as if they were playing better as scum. Like, as it is, their D1 play consists of tunneling a town slot and not in a way that makes them optically look good like Luca Blight. I just think there might be more preparation and awareness on scum!HuTao's part about how they will look after I flip. I guess she could be scum but I don't really feel it.

Gypyx - also feel town? idk I think the way they immediately had a thought about Jacob on replacing in was towny. I think their kinda wibbly wobbly progression on me has been towny? I just town read their tone a lot I think.

ProjEctRy - I liked Psyche's read here. I think Projectry believes in his Ketchup push. I think the indignation about people's scum reads on him is towny. I think there is an empathy in his posts towards Ketchup that I wouldn't expect from a scum pushing a townie. I think 650 speaks to someone trying to sort the alignments of people pushing him.

Dannflor - a shining radiant beacon of towniness. pure of soul and pure of heart.

Luca Blight - I admit I have had doubts here. Especially when I spied that Luca Blight has last played mafia years ago and he is still projecting so much confidence on the bugspray read. but gun to head I still think this slot is town and I won't elaborate because that's fairly consensus. (btw it is fairly consensus because Luca Blight is useful to scum and they want to keep him going)

Jacob24 - I think Jacob's outrage in 283 rings true. I guess i found their outrage in the beginning about mindless reads to ring true. This is one of my weakest town reads tbh.

iamveryhappy - could be scum. I expect like an ounce of game advancing content from iavh at this point if they are town but i haven't seen that. they made one post about how im prob scum without really any context.

ketchup777 - I think he's just town. I understand the scum reads and I think the way ketchup phrases a lot of his posts is somewhat performative and surface level scummy. idk I don't think ketchup goes back and forth on my slot in the way that he did if he's scum. I think he fully commits to like hard defending me or not, not the sort of half-assed defense he did.

Psyche - similar read as above, but I think psyche picks a lane when it comes to my slot. They've gone from wanting to white knight to being possibly ambivalent. I think generally there is a depth of thought here that comes from town. I think they've gone against the grain but not in a way that really makes them optically look good.

DeltaWave - i think this is scum. I think the fact that Delta realized ketchup was a newbie in 505 but didn't unvote until 664 is emblematic of someone who isn't really fluidly thinking about the game. I think the line to ketchup about "needing to quit this line of argument" is reminiscent of scum only finding validity in arguments that are "factually correct," it's not really interested in ketchup's alignment.

To be honest, I think DeltaWave reading 228 straight and calling it "so, so, so bad" is a scum tell. I think scum are more likely to take non-serious posts seriously for the most part and again, the defense of Drew seems more based in "this argument is factually inconsistent" not "this argument is scum motivated." I also think the town read on Luca is exactly the position scum would be taking up right now. There's too many scum reads and not in a towny way.

Black - gun to head town. Unfortunately, I don't have as much confidence on this read (or many of my reads) as I am used to. I blame the position I've been forced into in this game. Overall, I think the way Black has treated my slot leans town. I think her shift from wanting to resolve my slot to giving me some time was natural. I think she believes in her push on Projectry. again, I've historically managed to get very confident reads on black but wasn't in a position to do that this game. still would say town if I had to choose.

Doctor Drew - still kinda think this is scum. I think DeltaWave is scummier at the moment but Drew is a good pick for partner and I still don't really have anything to town read from Drew's slot. Drew continually shading ketchup as I get run up is not really a good look, I feel like he's setting up for me to claim PR or something and wants a backup option. there hasn't really been an evaluation of who might be scum pending my scum flip, which drew seems to feel pretty strongly about. Luca meanwhile is trying different solves based on my flip, but Drew seems content just to OMGUS and leave it at that. maybe my expectations are too high but I expect more from town!drew here.

OutWorldER - never kill this, probably my most confident town read. i think there is a night and day difference between OWER's scum and town game and i think this is his town game. i think he really believes in his ketchup push. etc, etc,

*****

so like, if I run with all my reads then my solve ends up being Delta Wave/Doctor Drew/iamveryhappy

That's not really the most satisfying solve to me. It feels like 3 kinda LHF, but that's honestly where I'm at and I don't think I'm gonna really be able to evolve beyond that given my position here.

Currently, I feel strongest about Delta Wave as far as scum reads go.

I feel strongest about OWER as far as town reads go. If I were to ask that any of my reads are to be sheeped, those are the two I would ask to be sheeped if I die.

I know it's easy to say in hindsight, but this was actually a really Townie post, but unfortunately I was asleep at the time and the hammer happened before I had the chance to wake. I like to think I might have at least had pause for thought based on this, but unfortunately we'll never know.

And why exactly are you telling the thread about it? Especially after you've already started the day phase and started doing other stuff

I hadn't read through the D1 EoD posts, so I was just giving my thoughts as I went through.

[Luca Blight]

Ketchup's play is looking bad but i'm willing to let it slide cause of their tone for no

Hu Tao, you and me, let's kill the scumteam

Well, I'm currently in between voting OutWorld and Ketchup. I need to review a few others first, which I'll get to a bit later.

[Luca Blight]

I am trying not to be too pessimistic but I do think this game is going to be an uphill battle. Whoever is town here needs to focus on finding each other and working together

I can see OWER and ketchup but why is Psyche town? He kinda falls in the "no reads" bin with Project and I can't really pinpoint much of anything he's done this game

Can you explain your OutWorld read?

[Luca Blight]

VOTE: ketchup

Still think that ketchup seems scummy. Also Lucca looks bad now for their bad ready of bugs/Dann.

That's a little hypocritical - didn't you also scum read that slot? It seemed like you were as tunnelled as I was.

[Luca Blight]

I am trying not to be too pessimistic but I do think this game is going to be an uphill battle. Whoever is town here needs to focus on finding each other and working together

I can see OWER and ketchup but why is Psyche town? He kinda falls in the "no reads" bin with Project and I can't really pinpoint much of anything he's done this game

Can you explain your OutWorld read?

I agree with Dann's 486. This doesn't really feel like the scum!OWER that I've played with. He feels more engaged and inquisitive here. I think he's probably capable of mimicking his town behavior as scum but I think it's more likely that he's just town

I'd be grateful if you could provide examples of OutWorld's 'anxiety' from his scum game, as I'm really struggling to read him as Town here. Also, it should be taken into consideration that Dann's reads were a bit off this game as everyone he scumread has been confirmed as town, which means he was townreading scum.

[Luca Blight]

like from my POV I thought Dann was fairly townie once he was allowed to get going so I just don't believe that there weren't scum riding Luca's tunnel all the way to his mislim

Probably too easy to read Dann's slot as townie when you already know his alignment.

There was nothing particularly indicative of him being town until later in the day

, when his fate was virtually sealed, in my opinion.

you're saying this like this an objective statement

Well, from what I can see you've never really explained your Dann TR beyond '

he looks townier than Bugs

'. So, while my statement was indeed undeniably subjective, it's difficult to really follow your progression on this read.

i never really got the chance to explain. i thought Dann was townier than bugs because he was still attempting to solve despite his position in the game. in particular I was of the mindset that his interactions towards Drew didn't come from scum in his position.

You always had the chance to explain - you said Dann was townier than his predecessor multiple times, you could have expanded upon it then, and you

should

have done if you're really town trying to convince people to vote elsewhere.

Can you elaborate on your point regarding Dann's interactions with Drew, and why it couldn't come from scum?

[Luca Blight]

yeah I probably should've, but again, I just didn't have it in me at the time

378 and other such posts are what was making me think he was town, since I don't think scum in that position would be trying to bait reactions since in my experience reaction baits usually tend to be naturally scumread.

It seemed like you had started townreading Dann before that post?

Could you pinpoint exactly when your read on that slot started to change?

[Luca Blight]

Ok, I'm starting to reconsider my OutWorld scumread. I'm also leaning slightly town on ketchup based on his recent posts so I'm going to have to reevaluate the entire game.

[Luca Blight]

Spoiler:

i don't really like to spend time doing this, but 145 is frankly all junk

you assert that bugs made more than one perspective slip. "perspective slips" and "scum pt slips" aren't a real thing. at best they're extremely rare. but the idea that bugs did it repeatedly over like a 5 post timeframe is ridiculous. how many times have you ever perspective slipped in a game as scum? on a similar vein, you repeatedly note that bugs fails to follow the context of what's being written, but only imply that this is scummy without ever engaging w the question of why someone being really bad at reading could say anything about whether they got a town or scum role pm. it doesn't. this set of accusations effectively requires that bugspray be, er, not very good at thinking, but never even considers the possibility that this observation about bugs' abilities could explain in a nai way pretty much every feature of bugs's play, even their first post.

also, you repeatedly cast survivalism -- trying not to get limmed -- as scummy. but town are at least as motivated as scum to not get limmed, both theoretically and empirically. stuff like deflecting attention, appealling to emotions, and so on are totally common responses by any type of player to scrutiny and again you don't attempt to think through how these things you don't like about bugs's posts actually suggest a scum win condition.

there's not enough weighing of alternative explanations here. you're taking things you don't like about bugs' play and handwaving the steps that explain why this play is more likely to come from scum than town.

I confidently townread Psyche for this post at the time, as it seemed like some genuine townie frustration, but my confidence has lessened since then as Psyche as ummed and erred a lot on this read and still not put anything forth in its stead.

There have been promises of content, but really only a lot of passive commentary on opinions and interpretations of others. It looks decent on the surface, but there's nothing else to it. So basically, 564 struck me as Townie, but virtually everything else in Psyche's ISO strikes me as scum passively coasting through this game.

VOTE: Psyche

[Luca Blight]

Jacob seems to be doing the bare minimum, but I'm not sure if that's just a lack of investment in the game. Hopefully he gets involved sooner than later.

[Luca Blight]

Welcome. I look forward to hearing a fresh perspective on this game.

[Luca Blight]

VOTE: Ketchup

gonna let titus cook here and the game that just ended shows I'm not really the best at reading Project

i still maintain the ketchup read from yesterday, and although I kinda fuck with the psyche vote I could also see psyche being a townie having trouble getting into the game, which isn't hugely impossible considering how the votes yesterday played out

Hmm, I'm not really vibing with this vote. It feels like you're just playing it safe this game by sticking on your Ketchup vote when I feel as though he has done enough since yesterday to warrant a re-read at least.

I can see your point about Psyche, but for my money he is a better bet than Ketchup at the moment Can I ask you to give your thoughts on other players in the game you haven't commented on much?

[Luca Blight]

VOTE: Ketchup

gonna let titus cook here and the game that just ended shows I'm not really the best at reading Project

i still maintain the ketchup read from yesterday, and although I kinda fuck with the psyche vote I could also see psyche being a townie having trouble getting into the game, which isn't hugely impossible considering how the votes yesterday played out

Hmm, I'm not really vibing with this vote. It feels like you're just playing it safe this game by sticking on your Ketchup vote when I feel as though he has done enough since yesterday to warrant a re-read at least.

I can see your point about Psyche, but for my money he is a better bet than Ketchup at the moment Can I ask you to give your thoughts on other players in the game you haven't commented on much?

which slots are you wanting me to comment on specifically? i'm kind of low-efforting right now since a stressful game of mine just ended and getting ready for college, so I do kind of need a minor break but I can comment more when I'm feeling more motivated/got more free time

Ok, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on that.

I'd like to hear your general thoughts on the game at some point, but in the meantime maybe explain your Ketchup read - have your thoughts changed at all there, or is it still entirely because of Ketchup's 323? Also, what are your thoughts on Black?

[Luca Blight]

i am coasting, but it's not on purpose.

i'll try one more time starting this evening to get my breakout moment.

What happened to this?

[Luca Blight]

And you, Ketchup? You're voting an absent player who is most likely getting replaced at some point, so your attention is better directed elsewhere for now. Do you have much in the way of reads currently?

[Luca Blight]

VOTE: OutWorld

I'm going back to my gut feeling. I've got a sneaky feeling OutWorld/Black could be partners, actually.

[Luca Blight]

I don't see a mass-claim as being necessary or beneficial right now.

I'll read through the rest of your post in a bit.

[Luca Blight]

I don't see a mass-claim as being necessary or beneficial right now.

I'll read through the rest of your post in a bit.

sure! I have no idea how it tends to turn out for the townies tbh

The standard practice is to mass-claim when in mylo, or I guess melo it's called now? Where if another mis-elimination occurs then Town loses.

[Luca Blight]

actually no - mylo still works. I just woke up so my mind isn't quite clear yet.

[Luca Blight]

actually no - mylo still works. I just woke up so my mind isn't quite clear yet.

American timezone?

I'm from England (same as you I believe) but live in Thailand currently.

[Luca Blight]

Regarding 1113, I think I've finally seen enough to hang my hat on Ketchup being town, which is a relief. I do think Hu Tao's implicit and unwavering sheeping of my push on Bugs/Dann was a bit strange, which is why I posed the question in 172, but I've been side-tracked by other players I've found overtly scummier to really put too much attention her way. I have a tendency to almost write such cocky play off as more likely town until later in the game, but I do think Ketchup makes a lot of good points in the first part of his post.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Hu Tao

[Luca Blight]

VOTE: OutWorld

I'm going back to my gut feeling. I've got a sneaky feeling OutWorld/Black could be partners, actually.

Why?

I feel as though they've been soft-defending each other throughout the game without good reason.

[Luca Blight]

Ketchup's 1117 is a brilliant post as well. I particularly like the points about gypyx and Project/Titus which reflected my own thoughts.

[Luca Blight]

Just skimmed through. I'm glad to see that Psyche is starting to open up a bit, but I need more time to analyse his posts, as well as the likes of gypyx who I have been inclined to townread, but who I could be wrong about, and of course jackson. I'll do a deep-dive into this in approximately 12 hours.

[Luca Blight]

Spoiler:

Regarding 1113, I think I've finally seen enough to hang my hat on Ketchup being town, which is a relief. I do think Hu Tao's implicit and unwavering sheeping of my push on Bugs/Dann was a bit strange, which is why I posed the question in 172, but I've been side-tracked by other players I've found overtly scummier to really put too much attention her way. I have a tendency to almost write such cocky play off as more likely town until later in the game, but I do think Ketchup makes a lot of good points in the first part of his post.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Hu Tao

I should say that I townread your conviction, and still do. I don't think scum would do that to start a game

I've also done something similar to that as town and been wrong so I understand

In that case I would have expected to you have pause for thought instead of just egging on the wagon because someone you townread is pushing it.

[Luca Blight]

*expected you to have pause for thought

[Luca Blight]

1208 - I'm leaning on this being a town post from Psyche.

I feel as though there is great potential to take advantage of the quoted posts in the scenario of jacob being Town and Pysche scum, but Psyche is very even-handed in his analysis. If they are both scum then I don't see why Psyche brings attention to his partner by highlighting his inadequacies when a replacement is imminent. I like Psyche's point as well about Jacob's emotions and attitudes lacking consistency, which could point towards him being scum.

[Luca Blight]

honestly i've been getting somewhat weary of ketchup based on his play being like, kinda proscum, and i say that as someone who likes to rates vibes and emotions pretty highly, this is probably not day 2 stuff anyways

i think i've already run out of momentum

VOTE: Black

I don't resonate with this at all.

[Luca Blight]

honestly i've been getting somewhat weary of ketchup based on his play being like, kinda proscum, and i say that as someone who likes to rates vibes and emotions pretty highly, this is probably not day 2 stuff anyways

Fully agree my Dann vote looks really bad, won’t deny that. But why do you think my Hu Tao push is proscum?

well i can't tell right now if the Hu Tao vote is towny or scummy, i'd need more alignement infos

but it certainely doesn't help us to stabilize this game

This doesn't make sense to me either. How can you say this when you voted along with the Hu Tao wagon? What exactly do you mean by 'stabilize this game'?

[Luca Blight]

my friend, a good show starts by having clearly defined protagonists, friends and foes, what good can we get out of all this if the threats are scattered and scum could be doing anything

I guess what you meant by stabilise the game was that we need to consolidate votes.


So why, in that case, would you randomly vote Black in 1242? It feels like you're doing more '

scattering'

than anyone in the game currently.

[Luca Blight]

@Anyone interested in the Hu Tao wagon

do you think scum!Hu Tao ever kills Deltawave this night when it would feel pretty natural for town to aim on the wagon, and with Delta being dead, Hu Tao would basically be the next in PoE of the Dann pushers? Luca isn't a realistic lim to aim for given his generally high towncred

I really think we can solve her day 3 but for now i'd like a little more time please

I'm not much into wagon analysis, especially on D1 when scum wasn't at threat. Anything is possible, and scum have the upper-hand in terms of manipulation and mind-games. Delta was clearly killed as her death provided little information and she might have been a PR playing it low-key - end of story.

[Luca Blight]

I think that taking away his tone, which i belive is the main thing a lot of people TR him for, his actions are actually kinda scummy and especially how he's acting around the thread

i could go into more details if you wish but i'm not much of a case person, maybe tell me if i'm the only one seeing this

Wrong. Ketchup's recent actions have been anything but scummy, and I'm suspicious of you for trying to cast doubt on him in light of that. In a future scenario when I might have been night-killed, Ketchup's elimination could be on the table again, so this is something to watch out for.

[Luca Blight]

Spoiler:

I actually think Jacob is an okay vote if I think about it. Out of those that were on the wagon, this is the best vote.

VOTE: Jacob

Based on what you said, you'd be willing to vote here right?

i'm the original scum majority off wagon poster so you just know i said to myself "heck yeah" when reading this, or like, "Mais oui totalement" since i'm french

the Delta kill just never happens with a scum majority on the wagon, even if scum thought they *potentially* faced a PR here, better to let dayplay do it's thing rather than shrink the pool in which they actually are able to hide

i'd be cool with doing Black / Titus / Psyche today

So if you're original premise is this, why vote me here?

Hu Tao feels desperate to get votes off of her here. The Jacob vote feels a little forced as if Hu looked to see what wagon could get more support than hers and voted accordingly. At this point Jacob is just non-existent and probably site flaking

I don't think there is much solving coming from Hu and that's concerning. She spent the majority of D1 on Dann and tried to keep others on him when they considered moving elsewhere. So far D2 she's just defending herself. I think she could be scum

I like and agree with this post from Black.

[Luca Blight]

Ok I'm caught up. This is probably where I'm at rn. I could vote for any of the bottom 4

Drew

Luca
Jackson
ketchup
OWER

Gypyx
Psyche

Titus
Hu Tao

This is decent. I do think Black is town at the moment, although I still don't quite vibe with the TR on Outworld, but it seems that Jackson also hard townread's Outworld so perhaps I'm missing something here. Will make a mental note to review him again once I'm caught up.

[Luca Blight]

Black jv +1

Black jv Ketchup

take it or leave it

Your reads are just all over the place

On this we agree.

I'm definitely inclined to eliminate either gypyx or Hu Tao today as things stand.

[Luca Blight]

Spoiler:

If you don't think I've been solving then you haven't been reading

I'm used to you giving more reads. Random spicy takes. You seem hesitant to really suspect anyone here

you think I'm scum with my scumread?

Why would you scumreading someone make me think you can't be partnered? You've bussed your teammates several times before so I'm not sure why you're pretending like you haven't

I didn't make my list with pairs in mind, your slots are just the scummiest to me. I think it could make sense as a team now that I'm putting more thought into it. I remember you telling me to "stay the course" on Dann when I switched to Project D1. And then there's your voting patterns today. You switched from Project to Jacob for what seems like survival reasons and then you said you were fine going back to Psyche. Titus is a scumread you're not willing to vote for which seems like a pretty convenient stance to take imo

I like this as well. Nice observation at the end.

[Luca Blight]

Spoiler:

VOTE: psyche

Let me lead the charge I guess lol

VOTE: psyche

I'm fine with going back to this

VOTE: psyche

Let me lead the charge I guess lol

VOTE: psyche

I'm fine with going back to this

Wait I got psyche and project mixed up

UNVOTE:

I mixed up project and psyche. So I was clearly willing to vote Titus. I just mixed up the names

I was referring more to the point about your D1 play - staying the course on Bugs/Dann instead of voting Project.

The posts you quoted above do very little to sway me from thinking you could be scum with Titus. Right now I'm actually not necessarily thinking this is the case anyway - my main point was I liked Black's observation and I think she is probably town.

[Luca Blight]

All I really remember you doing D1 was egging on the Bugs/Dann wagon. You then directed attention back to the wagon when Project became someone of interest. So the observation that Black made that it's not outside the realms of possibility that you an Titus could be scum was a good one, in response to your question.

Right now I'm still catching up and I'm not necessarily pushing you and Titus as being scum together, so I don't want to get bogged down on this point.

[Luca Blight]

Umm. I think I could have been wrong on Luca. Cause he's outing stuff that makes literally 0 sense. This is upsetting.

It makes sense. I feel as though you're deliberately missing my point.

[Luca Blight]

Having caught up, I still prefer a Hu Tao elimination today.

I don't have much of an opinion on the Titus slot - I was certainly hoping for her to do more after replacing in, but as Ketchup said it just seems a little too comfortable and convenient for it to be scum. I also imagine her scum teammates would be imploring her to actually do something rather than just casually accept her fate when the elimination is still very much in the balance, so she might have felt a little bit of guilt for giving up so easily as scum.

gypyx reads town tonally to me and has done for quite a while, but I am suspicious of her recent posts and attempts to undermine Ketchup, which I think is what scum would feel the need to do in this position.

I still don't townread OutWorld, but I will review again and try to see what I'm missing.

[Luca Blight]

I believe that's

E-1.

[Luca Blight]

Outworld, Hu Tao and gypyx were the first three on the wagon. It's either a desperate attempt to save Hu Tao or a bus, in my opinion. A bus could well be likely, the more I think about it, but I still much prefer a Hu Tao elimination, and I don't feel as though she did enough for the earlier wagon on her to dissipate as it did.

[Luca Blight]

We have a pretty strong town base of players in this game - Drew, Ketchup, Psyche, myself, and I would probably now add Black and Jackson too. This is enough to determine the elimination without relying on any of the suspect slots for votes, so I'd advise against rushing an elimination for that reason at least.

[Luca Blight]

I propose a mass-claim in this order: Hu Tao, Gypyx, Outworld, Black, Jackson, Psyche, Ketchup, Luca.

I don't mind altering the order a bit, but I do think that Hu Tao, gypyx and outworld should be the first three.

[Luca Blight]

What’s the standard here if we do the mass claim, do we refrain from commenting on what people have said till everyone’s claimed?

I can't remember if this is the standard, but it would make sense to let it play out without commenting too much on it, imo.

[Luca Blight]

I haven't caught up yet, but I'm VT.

[Luca Blight]

Let's just not rush the elimination like on D2. I think we're still waiting on Hu Tao's result as well.

I'm going to be busy for most of today so will think it through later.

[Luca Blight]

I'm still catching up, on page 78.

Did any of the PR claims crumb their role/targets at all?

[Luca Blight]

Ketchup who do you think is scum here

Not me, you, OutWorld (I've done a 180 I guess)

One or two of Jackson/Psyche/Gypyx

One or two of Luca/Black

Leaning towards Gypyx town atm

I'm leaning the other way.

[Luca Blight]

I'll be free in a couple of hours to pick this apart, so it'd be nice if we could hold fire just for a bit at least.

[Luca Blight]

All this chatter confusing the thread almost makes me think Jackson could be hard-bussing gypyx here. I just wanted to put that on the table in case I end up night-killed.

[Luca Blight]

I'm here, let me catch up a sec

[Luca Blight]

I actually would rather rest for a bit as I've had a long day, but it feels as though things are moving so fast in this game and I'm worried about a repeat of D2.

[Luca Blight]

I actually would rather rest for a bit as I've had a long day, but it feels as though things are moving so fast in this game and I'm worried about a repeat of D2.

Luca rest, Gypyx rest, everybody rest. IRL health is important

Can you just let me know exactly where you stand on everything right now?

[Luca Blight]

I actually would rather rest for a bit as I've had a long day, but it feels as though things are moving so fast in this game and I'm worried about a repeat of D2.

Luca rest, Gypyx rest, everybody rest. IRL health is important

Can you just let me know exactly where you stand on everything right now?

2304. Or in more detail:

town: me(hi i'm lonely come help me out)
probably town: Hu Tao, OutWorld, due to their power role claims seeming somewhat legit. If both are scum, all we had was a 1-shot watcher and a swingy vig. Seems unbalanced, so at least one is probably town, then if at least one is town, the macho synergises so well with the Jailkeeper that I think it makes sense for both to be town.
Also probably town: Gypyx, Luca. Gypyx feels like a town fighter to me. You had already done lots of good things early game (thought this game in ISO atm you could be anything, although you were the one who suggested this massclaim, and, wow! has it kicked things off. This inclines me to look at you positively as well.

The 3 who remain: Jackson, Black, Psyche

The way Psyche revealed his result felt super townie to me, the excitement was palpable, and his energy has been consistent with that.

Yes, Hu Tao and outworld are probably town, but I think you might be wrong on Psyche.

[Luca Blight]

Psyche is as honest as the day is long. gypyx feels a lot more manipulative this game to me. Remember when she tried to cast doubt on Ketchup end of D2 when he was obviously town?

[Luca Blight]

I'm off to lunch. Still need to look again at some of 91-94

Enjoy.

I'm feeling increasingly sure of psyche being town as I look through his posts, hopefully I can convince you later.

[Luca Blight]

What changed in the time between these posts:

UNVOTE:

actually this wagon sucks wtf

Hu Tao are you a member of the mafia

maybe Titus is the best vote we can acheive today actually

I just don't think it's Hu Tao

I think you might have explained it already, but it would save me sifting through hundreds of posts.

[Luca Blight]

Spoiler:

What changed in the time between these posts:

UNVOTE:

actually this wagon sucks wtf

Hu Tao are you a member of the mafia

maybe Titus is the best vote we can acheive today actually

I just don't think it's Hu Tao

I think you might have explained it already, but it would save me sifting through hundreds of posts.

basically that's 2 different things

me unvoting titus and kinda angling towards hu was cause the titus wagon was absolutely shit and i was wondering if maybe i was wrong on hu tao being a PR who investigated me, i hoped this was a pretty clear signal to her

the other one was me trying to signal that i really didn't wanna do hu tao for reaons outside of "blergh, i'm townreading her"

Can you pinpoint exactly when you started townreading Hu Tao/thinking she was a town PR who investigated you?

Incidentally, I actually thought Ketchup was a PR who investigated me N1, which was why he townread me so heavily D2. I townread him independent of that, though.

[Luca Blight]

Spoiler:

What changed in the time between these posts:

UNVOTE:

actually this wagon sucks wtf

Hu Tao are you a member of the mafia

maybe Titus is the best vote we can acheive today actually

I just don't think it's Hu Tao

I think you might have explained it already, but it would save me sifting through hundreds of posts.

basically that's 2 different things

me unvoting titus and kinda angling towards hu was cause the titus wagon was absolutely shit and i was wondering if maybe i was wrong on hu tao being a PR who investigated me, i hoped this was a pretty clear signal to her

the other one was me trying to signal that i really didn't wanna do hu tao for reaons outside of "blergh, i'm townreading her"

Can you pinpoint exactly when you started townreading Hu Tao/thinking she was a town PR who investigated you?

Incidentally, I actually thought Ketchup was a PR who investigated me N1, which was why he townread me so heavily D2. I townread him independent of that, though.

Interesting, I thought

you

were a power role. But if I were an investigative role I would’ve for sure gone for someone dodgier

My theory was that you were a Jailkeeper who protected me N1, and then assumed I would have made the N1 kill if I were scum.

[Luca Blight]

i just woke up chat will i get anything out of reading JV and Gypyx yell at each other for *checks timestamps* six hours what the fuck

I've skipped over most of it myself.

Everyone involved should just summarise/send a link to their main points for clarity's sake.

[Luca Blight]

I'm sorry if I'm wrong. I just townread her

VOTE: Psyche

Let's wait for Outworld to give his thoughts at least.

[Luca Blight]

I'm sorry if I'm wrong. I just townread her

VOTE: Psyche

oooh this is exciting you have more courage than me

Is your main reason for thinking psyche is scum based on the supposed setup imbalances?

[Luca Blight]

I'm sorry if I'm wrong. I just townread her

VOTE: Psyche

oooh this is exciting you have more courage than me

Is your main reason for thinking psyche is scum based on the supposed setup imbalances?

No, that’s more for townconfirming Hu Tao and Outworld (and by extension for you guys me, I guess). It’s a battle of the vibes, and I think it has felt more likely

Gyp is being targeted by the mafia

than the other way around. So it’s more likely Psyche in this 1v1

Can you just confirm what you mean by this? I think I know, but just want to be clear.

[Luca Blight]

I've tried my actual best this game and all of it is getting boiled down to me choosing "love" as a hangman choice while killing time. Do you not see how insulting that is?

Come on Jackson, you know I wasn’t fully serious on that. Who was it that said that mafia are more likely to be annoyed at being caught out

for the wrong reasons

? 'Cos that’s what I’m seeing here

Ketchup, what would your thoughts be if I told you that jackson was town?

[Luca Blight]

do we agree that scum lies in Me / psyche / jackson / black at least

if anyone (not jackson) disagrees with this statement please come fowards

I haven't fully ruled out Luca unfortunately, but your four is the likeliest pool yes

i honestly think keeping luca in the suspects does us more harm than good

Why don't you think I could be scum?

[Luca Blight]

I've tried my actual best this game and all of it is getting boiled down to me choosing "love" as a hangman choice while killing time. Do you not see how insulting that is?

Come on Jackson, you know I wasn’t fully serious on that. Who was it that said that mafia are more likely to be annoyed at being caught out

for the wrong reasons

? 'Cos that’s what I’m seeing here

Ketchup, what would your thoughts be if I told you that jackson was town?

It's possible he is so confident in himself that he genuinely got Gypyx wrong and the team is Luca / Black / Psyche

Or if Gypyx is scum, we now have

Psyche conftown
Jackson town because of our thought experiment scenario
I am town (I know this + Outworld's neapolitan check)
Hu Tao+OutWorld likely town

the team is a surprising

Luca / Black / Gypyx

What if me and Jackson were town?

There's a reason why i ask this, but first I'm curious as to your thoughts.

[Luca Blight]

do we agree that scum lies in Me / psyche / jackson / black at least

if anyone (not jackson) disagrees with this statement please come fowards

I haven't fully ruled out Luca unfortunately, but your four is the likeliest pool yes

i honestly think keeping luca in the suspects does us more harm than good

Why don't you think I could be scum?

Half because i feel that you've just been obvtown the whole game and the other half cause Jackson / Black / Psyche have basically all chosen to scumclaim to me in an attempt to make the game end today so there's kinda no room for you to be scum

Same question to you, gypyx.

If Jackson was confirmed town, who would you think is scum?

[Luca Blight]

do we agree that scum lies in Me / psyche / jackson / black at least

if anyone (not jackson) disagrees with this statement please come fowards

I haven't fully ruled out Luca unfortunately, but your four is the likeliest pool yes

i honestly think keeping luca in the suspects does us more harm than good

Why don't you think I could be scum?

Half because i feel that you've just been obvtown the whole game and the other half cause Jackson / Black / Psyche have basically all chosen to scumclaim to me in an attempt to make the game end today so there's kinda no room for you to be scum

Same question to you, gypyx.

If Jackson was confirmed town, who would you think is scum?

Jackson isn't gonna get confirmed town cause he's openly scum

Can you just answer the question for me? It would help in my sorting of you and psyche.

[Luca Blight]

Jackson and I are

Masons

Here are my crumbs:

While quoting my 24th post: (In reference to jacob's username)

So yeah, I'm definitely not voting anyone else but Bugs for today, but I'm gonna refrain from tunnelling and will turn my attention now to acquiring other reads. I'll return back to Bugs later in the day.

UNVOTE:

I actually feel overconfident town energy here, but do you have a scum of yours you could link in here?

I was looking for one and came across another game in which I easily read Bugs as scum early on:

viewtopic.php?t=82613

I have to do some work but will be sure to link a scum game of mine later. I can play pretty well as scum when i'm in the mood, but I'm definitely far more confident as town.

Here's the scum game in which I had my best performance: viewtopic.php?t=85772

I

may soon

get around to reviewing the likes of

Jacob

who I don't have any strong opinions on yet.

As Mon

day was my birthday I still feel like I'm on holiday mode, so I need to get my thoughts organised.

While quoting Jacob in my 42nd post (24 backwards):

i did not

i actually read the game first this time and made sure i was replacing into what i thought was more likely to be a town slot before i replaced in

This post is crazy to me. Clearly you didn’t read close enough. This feels like an incredibly flimsy defense. Despite me earlier doubts, I’m back with Luca and like Black’s thoughts.

VOTE: Dannflor

For someone who

moans

as much as I about the Bugs/Dann slot, you seem easily placated by Black is who continuously redirecting away from that wagon.

Just noting for later reference.

[Luca Blight]

It's cool that gypyx said how much she townreads me just before, because it basically means there would be no reason to make this claim at this point if I were lying.

[Luca Blight]

It's cool that gypyx said how much she townreads me just before, because it basically means there would be no reason to make this claim at this point if I were lying.

i think you're thinking you're slick making a shit eating gambit but still town

I think my crumbs prove it's not a random gambit I'm pulling.

If you're sceptical, go ahead and count the posts I referenced to make sure I'm telling the truth - first, quoting my 24th post, and second in my 42nd post.

[Luca Blight]

post 22 in the mason chat: Jacob asks me to throw some suspicion his way so he doesn't get 'mafia killed'. He says we should plan just in case Bugs turns out to be scum.

Pick a post number and I can summarise, for any non-believers.

[Luca Blight]

turns out to be town, i mean

[Luca Blight]

How about we both post a synopsis at the same time

if you're in the scum PT together this is easy to fake

It'd be something though, knowing they're on the same alignment. Could be worth pushing for?

Ketchup, do you actually doubt I'm telling the truth about this?

[Luca Blight]

Spoiler: Page 1 Synopsis

Luca and Jacob greet each other with a simple "Hello" (like exactly that lmfao). Jacob apologizes for being on Luca as he didn't mean to but tells Luca that he can press Psyche if he'd like. Luca acknowledges this and just says that Jacob can do whatever he's comfortable with, and he in fact likes Psyche's reaction. Jacob thinks that bug/OW are scummy. Luca then things he should leae a crumb in their 24th post to encode some way to claim masonry later. Jacob then says he should probably do the same (woah pro gamer strats). Luca then goes an explains typical masonry softing to Jacob the newbie mason. Luca thinks that bug is wolf, jacob then decides to sheep this read for the sake of the masonry (pro gamer strats). Jacob calls out post 88 as his soft, while Luca realises he did his 24th post but forgot to crumb like an absolute chump but will recover in his 42nd post instead, and in 170 he quote the 24th post in reference to Jacobs username (what a cool soft) but then decided to start distancing to avoid getting killed by the mofai (oh no so bad) Jacob then asks if he should hold the mason card in reserve in the event that Luca had bit the dust. End of Page (wow super cool)

still not buying it

look yeah i'm gonna be real you can't convince me that this is real masons, even if you flipped i would spend like 1 hour waiting for mod to stop fucking with us

But then you're most probably scum, so convincing you is irrelevant.

[Luca Blight]

This is why we shouldn't rush this vote: The game is in solving distance.

[Luca Blight]

This is why we shouldn't rush this vote: The game is in solving distance.

yeah, then stop bullshiting and let us get back on track

I admire your determination, to continue in such a lost position. I'd have probably thrown in the towel by now.

[Luca Blight]

Possible scenarios:

a) Luca and Jackson are masons
b) Luca and Jackson are scum.

I guess they can't be apart actually

I fear Luca sprinkled in mason claims early as scum, prepared to use if necessary with one of his teammates.

he never crumbed who he was mason with

Yes, I did? I crumbed I was masons with Jacob. Read the post again.

Also, why would I make this move here as scum when I've been townbinned by most of the playerlist?

[Luca Blight]

Possible scenarios:

a) Luca and Jackson are masons
b) Luca and Jackson are scum.

I guess they can't be apart actually

I fear Luca sprinkled in mason claims early as scum, prepared to use if necessary with one of his teammates.

he never crumbed who he was mason with

Yes, I did? I crumbed I was masons with Jacob. Read the post again.

Also, why would I make this move here as scum when I've been townbinned by most of the playerlist?

make sure you win today so that hu tao doesn't find a lucky guilty with her jailkeep

It would be a stupid strategy with the claims that have already been made, and you know it.

[Luca Blight]

jackson is desperate to make this day more chaotic than it needs to be

Come on, you've played your role in that.

[Luca Blight]

Possible scenarios:

a) Luca and Jackson are masons
b) Luca and Jackson are scum.

I guess they can't be apart actually

I fear Luca sprinkled in mason claims early as scum, prepared to use if necessary with one of his teammates.

he never crumbed who he was mason with

Yes, I did? I crumbed I was masons with Jacob. Read the post again.

Also, why would I make this move here as scum when I've been townbinned by most of the playerlist?

apologies, I understand, you did.

well, Hu Tao and I had just admitted we hadn't taken you off our radar yet...

Come on, Jackson, if you're a mason, this is huge. We have so much information, unvote. Or anyone else unvote.

I think Hu Tao had just agreed to a scum pool that didn't feature me in it at all, from what i remember.

Let's be honest, if I were scum, I'd have had a much easier path to victory than claiming masons that conflicts with other town roles already claimed, and with a player who is quite heavily scumread by you, a conftown.

The reason I asked gypyx to say why she townreads me so much before I claimed masons was to highlight this point - I didn't need to claim, I claimed because by not claiming it was obstructing the discussion due to on a limited view of the setup based on the roles claimed.