Hop in, we're wagoning BulgeIn post 781, furtiveglance wrote: I thought it was Black, maybe that vc was outdated.
I still think Black is very sus but I can move if need be.
What's the voting at?
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Hop in, we're wagoning BulgeIn post 781, furtiveglance wrote: I thought it was Black, maybe that vc was outdated.
I still think Black is very sus but I can move if need be.
What's the voting at?
Don't let this distract you from the fact that Bulge/Drew scumIn post 795, biancospino wrote:You don't care because you sr both or because you just want a lim and are willing to wagon whomever?In post 790, Enchant wrote:I really don't care kIn post 779, usesPython wrote: Enchant you too, are you willing to get on a Bulge wagon instead of a Drew wagon?
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For an openwolf enjoyer you really need to learn that the fastest way to catch openwolves is through associatives on both ends of W/W interactions (or the glaring lack of interactions in this case). Also I'm wagoning Bulge instead of you because Bianco isn't willing to vote you and the solve is Bulge/Drew, we're sorry you're the one bringing down the Bulge/Drew teamIn post 799, Doctor Drew wrote: I mean, you were already completely wrong chaining a townie to someone....
And this might be a stupid question Python, but is the sole crux of your scum read of Bulge this supposed associative with me?
Didn't Lorne in DN have the same mindset? Something not being a townie mindset doesn't mean they're scumIn post 802, Black wrote: That's not a very town mindset. Does Mafia bore you or something?
When it takes 7 minutes to write 4 sentences it's either phoneposting or AI lolIn post 812, Doctor Drew wrote:I have been house sitting all week, so I only have my phone to post.
Is it that obvious? Lol
Honestly I respect the grindset of joining to have fun instead of winningIn post 815, Black wrote: Just wanting a lim and not really caring who it is seems so wild to me
smh keeping track of multiple games is hard, I asked it as shorthand for "how did the rest of the town come to the conclusion that Kokichi was scum"In post 831, Aureal wrote:Spoiler: Just
Okay, sooooo... if you're doing a proper read of the game, why'd you ask how the Kokichi wagon formed? I'd think you'd have started by reading the setup, which would make it clear that no such thing need have existed!
That was just the latest at the time, go look at stuff like 537 for moreIn post 832, Aureal wrote:Spoiler: Another
Can I just say that I don't get this at all?
Like, that snarky comment about interacting with furt is totally something I would say. It's just a snarky comment because the situation seems obviously ridiculous. And I kind of agree, from what I understand of what this so-called Drew/Bulge case is supposed to be. Did we do a deep-dive of everyone's iso to see who they haven't interacted with? I bet Mala hasn't interacted with half of the game! Trying to go "oooh, they haven't interacted thus scumteam!" two days in to a game makes no sense to me. A few game days, okay, try to go back and look for those, but real-life game days? Really?
Oclax is the main hunting hater, Osuka is the "grr everyone is shit but me"In post 833, Aureal wrote:Spoiler: Brick
1) I try my best to contribute so it stings when people accuse me of not doing so.
2) I think that statement is pretty clearly wrong* and could be a way of throwing shade to justify a wagon at some point.
3) I have quite recently BEEN mislimmed, by some people in this game, on that sort of grounds. After I went to a great deal of effort to point out exactly how an actual mafia was using that sort of argument as a distraction to avoid having to produce content of their own.
* like post count is a totally objective measure and ours weren't even in the same ballpark, but if we're going the "what can I remember about this person" route I think people like you and Oclax would also pretty well fit into the "uh... IDK, lemme go check the ISO" category
Unironically why?In post 836, Aureal wrote:No.In post 734, usesPython wrote: Also we need to be limming the same groupscum today and tomorrow, can the people doing individual scumhunting start looking into what partners make sense with their scumreads and focus on solving for pairs?
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Stop twisting our words by taking stuff out of context. This all started when you talked about how you're not interacting with Furtive, Kokichi, or Aureal in 537, as part of our retort we mentioned that Aureal's barely here, Aureal took issue with that and then we explained deeper why we held the opinion. We're already hitting 50 per day just talking about stuff that's immediately relevant, there's physically not enough attention span for people to read any more than thatIn post 835, Doctor Drew wrote:Spoiler: In
I think the point they were making is that there are many people here who 'appear' to not be contributing(not saying you aren't). And the way I see it Python seems to pick and choose who they call out for certain things.
I disagree because there's a subtle difference that'll show up in behaviour: town are worried about being wrong but don't mind associatives as much, scum are worried about associatives but don't mind being wrong as muchIn post 837, Aureal wrote:Spoiler: The
I don't understand this argument. Nobody knows the alignment of anyone else here except for the two scumteams knowing their partner's alignment. Mafia don't know that everyone who's not on their team is town like could be expected in a normal game. Therefore they may well put up their guard in case they're wrong about a townread, because they literally are trying to read everyone else. That would make them just like town, who don't know anyone's alignment, therefore need to be guarded against everyone.
You're acting like it's not normal for town to be wary that their townreads could be wrong though.
And I'm not even really sure any of this is applicable here because I don't think Black is even townreading furtive, I think she didn't word that quite right because the argument is that furtive's behavior is NOT useful in determining his alignment (to be mafia). It's NAI (and I agree with that, I remember Turf Wars, lol.)
Sorry, we'll try to not hyperpost as much but it's kinda hard to limit our post count when we're simultaneously defending ourselves from a wagon and also having to be the leading force on the Drew/Bulge wagon and also trying to solve for the other scumteam outside Drew/Bulge and also talk about mech and the overall gamestateIn post 839, Aureal wrote:Spoiler: Wall
I think we're all gonna 'appear' to not be contributing with the way Python is flooding the zone. I know that's how they play but... yikes. I hate having to play catch-up like I'm doing because I can't keep up with the mile-a-minute way the game's been rolling while I'm at work; and I hate even more that I think at least half my responses are to Python. x_x
Can you walk us through this read?In post 728, biancospino wrote: I also want to repeat myself that Drew isn't happening today, not with my vote. I have a very strong gutread there that scum!Drew and town!Bulge is not a thing.
Why do you think Bulge would do this?In post 523, Doctor Drew wrote: As far as Bulge, I do agree it is odd that they have seemingly danced around discussing me, especially given the discussions surrounding the Bianco wagon and by proxy HPE as well.
uhhh we're mostly being wagoned cause people don't like Nameless mechposting and me metaingIn post 858, Malakittens wrote: Ugh I don’t know which one I want.
Can I get a quick summary of the wagons
Flip it around then, who do you think is town?In post 888, Black wrote:IdkIn post 886, usesPython wrote: Hey Black, other than your Kokichi/Python solve who are you scumreading right now? We've got 2x2 scum to be hunting here
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Ok we know post count != effort but how do you have 165 posts and 0 townreads? Actually lets simplify it, what do you think of the flashwagon on Bulge? Are the people there that aren't me town or groupscum or other groupscum?In post 890, Black wrote: I don't know python
Don't let this distract you from the fact that Bulge and Drew are scum!In post 892, Aureal wrote:In post 870, Black wrote: Getting a lim through requires more than just repeating "X is scum!" and then ignoring everyone's attempts to get you to expand on that
^^^^
Obvious fact that is somehow not obvious to a surprising amount of people.
Oclaxian is plural, not a hydraIn post 895, Black wrote: I think the hydra is pretty town, as well as Bianco
If we flashwagon Drew instead wanna join us?In post 894, Aureal wrote: I townlean Bulge and that's where the wagon is. Drew I dunno about but it seems beside the point with where things are. You seem to have answered your own question a bit later regarding voting you.
And I'm not even going to try to respond to your wall post from mobile, yikes.
Trying to get a sense for your reads hereIn post 899, Aureal wrote: Uh, even if I said yes, and that is not what I am saying yet, why try to swap Bianco's vote for mine? She made it clear she's not voting Drew here so even if everyone else went back that's still no more votes.
If it was Bianco/Python then Nameless would be too busy spamming the PT with mech to post mech hereIn post 900, Black wrote:Good pointIn post 899, Aureal wrote: Uh, even if I said yes, and that is not what I am saying yet, why try to swap Bianco's vote for mine? She made it clear she's not voting Drew here so even if everyone else went back that's still no more votes.
Python/Bianco associatives?
There's only been like 5 pages worth of mech this game, I wouldn't exactly call it "drowning the thread out with mech"In post 903, Black wrote:Idk...I think it could be a valid scum tactic to drown the thread out with mech as you two have doneIn post 901, usesPython wrote: If it was Bianco/Python then Nameless would be too busy spamming the PT with mech to post mech here
I kinda think Bianco is town though so I'm not sure how confident I am here
We forgot to ask this earlier, but where exactly is this conception of us coming from?In post 694, Black wrote:You're smart. I'm not putting it past you to figure it outIn post 692, usesPython wrote: Please look at the wagon on us and tell us how we live past d2
Apology acceptedIn post 921, Doctor Drew wrote: But, full apologies again for taking it a step too far, realized it as soon as I hit submit, and I hate
to be the mean asshole type.
Furthermore, you really think that Kokichi postsIn post 902, usesPython wrote: Also Black, to address the Python/Kokichi team: if it was real it'd mean that I managed to solo generate a counterwagon on Bulge while the entire other groupscum were trying to prevent it. We're good but notthatgood
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in a Python/Kokichi game?In post 488, Kokichi Oma wrote: If you out doc, you can kill doc? or is there some mechanic i'm not aware of
Quoting to give a notificationIn post 808, Oclaxian Empire wrote: grim: also lorne was banned for ban evasion lol
btw Drew since you're here you mind answering this?In post 857, usesPython wrote:Why do you think Bulge would do this?In post 523, Doctor Drew wrote: As far as Bulge, I do agree it is odd that they have seemingly danced around discussing me, especially given the discussions surrounding the Bianco wagon and by proxy HPE as well.
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More specifically he notes the oddness in 523, forms the tr in 534 and then does pretty much nothing with it and immediately pivots to breaking associatives in 537In post 925, usesPython wrote: Oclax when you come back you mind rereading Drew's 523/534/537 and seeing if you can see what we're seeing wrt being more focused on breaking any associatives instead of defending his tr?
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That one's kinda harder to explain mostly because it formed from a sense of how the thread was flowing around 247 and only later solidified into something more obvious. Essentially it came down to glossing over Drews 203/206/208/212 without having 268 for context while still deciding to comment on our posts in 253/255 which from our perspective the posts commented on seemed pretty normal?In post 937, Oclaxian Empire wrote: grim: ig here's the question too: what about that makes u think drew/bulge are aligned w/ one another? bc i'm more so seeing it as drew trying to setup bulge to be in a worse spot post-flip
I'm asking why you're not partner hunting, not why you don't see the Drew/Bulge teamIn post 958, Aureal wrote:Skill issue.In post 846, usesPython wrote: Unironically why?
Do you think I'm lying about my inability to see wtf you're going on about with this Drew/Bulge association?
We can't really think of a better way to explain it without basically just repeating ourselves. For town, the scenario of being wrong about a tr is "oh well it looks bad but we caught scum so still good"; for scum, the scenario of being wrong about a tr is "shit the game's about to go into X/1/1 or X/2/0 and the pocket failed, not good"In post 958, Aureal wrote:Mm. I... suppose that could make sense. I think. Isn't... being wrong about someone... an associative? Or being right. Or not having an opinion. Or basically everything...I disagree because there's a subtle difference that'll show up in behaviour: town are worried about being wrong but don't mind associatives as much, scum are worried about associatives but don't mind being wrong as much
In post 964, osuka wrote: i mean that's pretty much spot on but also what the fuck? and where did that comment come from? you quoted a post that has nothing to do with that
We're refuting the point that you and Oclax are in the "lemme ISO" categoryIn post 833, Aureal wrote:
1) I try my best to contribute so it stings when people accuse me of not doing so.
2) I think that statement is pretty clearly wrong* and could be a way of throwing shade to justify a wagon at some point.
3) I have quite recently BEEN mislimmed, by some people in this game, on that sort of grounds. After I went to a great deal of effort to point out exactly how an actual mafia was using that sort of argument as a distraction to avoid having to produce content of their own.
* like post count is a totally objective measure and ours weren't even in the same ballpark,but if we're going the "what can I remember about this person" route I think people like you and Oclax would also pretty well fit into the "uh... IDK, lemme go check the ISO" category
809 took 7 minutes in the editor to post from start to finish since he mentions getting sniped by Oclax, itIn post 960, osuka wrote:Spoiler: Cave
or, you know, literally anything else including but not limited to: thinking about what you're gonna write, answering the door, getting distracted, or going to the bathroom and taking a shit. timeliness isn't ai
This is big and I kinda need you to work through this thought today because I know damn well you're not gonna go back to read d1 after it's over. First off, if you look at 773 onwards we could have very easily stayed on the Black counterwagon and stayed alive to keep 1v2ing Bulge/Drew; we specifically worked on getting a Bulge/Drew wagon instead because we think we're more likely to hit scum there. Does that seem like the play scum!Python does if we only care about surviving?In post 974, osuka wrote:so i'm torn, rightIn post 961, Oclaxian Empire wrote: grim: so, radical idea osuka, vote python?
on one hand, i think python has been nothing but noise all game. there was a lot of completely useless mech talk just to get to a "conclusion" that's so obvious anyone in the newbie queue could've come to in about 30 seconds, and i can't recall anything really interesting or obviously solvey coming out of that slot. just a lot of shit flinging in what seems to me a desperate attempt at staying alive after having dug themselves in a fucking hole. i'm not sure the initial push here was warranted though, because to their credit they DID advance the game state a fair bit, which i don't know if scum would be particularly willing to do.
on the other hand, black went from really scummy to actually sorta townposting, to getting hyper tilted in not that long of a timespan. that slot was pretty likely to be scum in my mind, then it wasn't, and now it's just a big question mark where a read used to be. i haven't got a really good idea what the fuck's going on there either. she's clearly tilted so i doubt we'll get anything out of that slot in the near future.
and then there's bulge - i have never been able to actually confidently read bulge and that's at least partly because there's so little content. whatever content is there is typically of good quality (regardless of alignment) and it generally makes sense, which makes it hard for me to read that slot because that's exactly what i do as either alignment. i have the distinct impression that much like myself, bulge is actively trying to burn his fucking meta to the goddamn ground every time he plays the game and he does that by making good logical and intuitive sense as either alignment. my hunch is that he's town here, but i can't confidently say that either.
i do think the python wagon came about in a fairly strange way, though. normally i'd be happy to just vote that slot out because 1. i think the slot flips red and 2. i will lose fewer brain cells every time i read the thread because i can't take any more of the mech talk, please make it stop it's too many numbers my brain can't take this i'm losing my mind. i swear to fuck if i have to read some shit about expected values again i will fucking combust
More specifically, this is the immediate reaction post-flip. The underlying worries between town and scum in multiball are still different thoughIn post 991, usesPython wrote:We can't really think of a better way to explain it without basically just repeating ourselves. For town, the scenario of being wrong about a tr is "oh well it looks bad but we caught scum so still good"; for scum, the scenario of being wrong about a tr is "shit the game's about to go into X/1/1 or X/2/0 and the pocket failed, not good"In post 958, Aureal wrote:Mm. I... suppose that could make sense. I think. Isn't... being wrong about someone... an associative? Or being right. Or not having an opinion. Or basically everything...I disagree because there's a subtle difference that'll show up in behaviour: town are worried about being wrong but don't mind associatives as much, scum are worried about associatives but don't mind being wrong as much
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In post 226, usesPython wrote: Having said that though, there's a very specific scumtell to multiball that can still be used D1. We'll reveal it towards the end of the dayphase instead of right now to see if anyone falls for it
-Nameless
In post 487, usesPython wrote:Yeah everyone's trying to lim mafia, but who are people trying not to limIn post 486, Black wrote: @Python - ok...so how is that different than normal mafia? Everyone is looking for scum D1 and there's no real way to tell the motives yet. The people on my wagon could be townies pushing possible scum, scum pushing a possible townie, or scum pushing possible opposing scum. How do you tell the difference?
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To make it very explicit:In post 482, usesPython wrote: Properly scumhunting d1 in multiball has nothing to do with mech. To state the real obvious, the only mech you need to know to scumhunt d1 in multiball is:
Ice Mafia'spreferred elims today are:Fire Mafia,Town,Ice Mafia
Fire Mafia'spreferred elims today are:Ice Mafia,Town,Fire Mafia
Town'spreferred elims today are:Mafia,Town
Can you elaborate? We haven't really gotten anything from your slot this game
Sheep the towncore and get on the bulge/drew wagon
What're your thoughts on the Drew = scum argument?
Also Mala ngl if you're town here this is pretty fucking upsetting from our point of view. We're basically in a position where we need a supermajority of town to have a correct read so you just plopping in here putting us at E-1 having done basically nothing this entire game with the only reasoning being "sheeping" (who are you even sheeping?) is pretty disgusting
Cause 2/3rds of the thread is asleep or at workIn post 1016, Enchant wrote: And no one cares to unvote it's hilarious.
Oclax is willing to sr Drew but not Bulge and Osuka tr's Bulge but not Drew. We're asking now to see if there's a workable wagon that can happen on the Drew/Bulge solve and where we need to focus our effort to make it happenIn post 1020, biancospino wrote:No, they aren't? Are there really 2+ people willing to vote Drew but not Bulge?In post 1007, usesPython wrote: Bianco we know about your opinion on that but the wagons today are Drew/Python so you get to decide if a Drew/Bulge or Python/??? solve is more likely
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You're just essentially blackmailing me now. If and when it gets to literally biting the deadline unless I decide to get on one of those wagons, I'll throw my stone
One thing to point out in this case: scum!Drew can throw a tr towards unaligned!Bulge because the gamestate of buddying Bulge benefits him even if Bulge is null (or even a scumlean depending on his other reads). Basically, why are you assuming that Drew is actually serious about his tr on Bulge if he's not really doing anything to defend them?In post 593, biancospino wrote: I disagree. For, if the Bulge is town, you're basically saying that scum!Drew is either actually tr'ing him but still putting up a guard in case he happens to be otherscum -- which Drew would think won't happen, because tr--; or is pretending to tr him, which would make very little sense as we've extensively established that scum wants to lim otherscum.
Yeah but the question is how many scum this game just saw "scumhunting always good" and went on autopilot without thinking any deeper (especially with how many people in this playerlist are allergic to any sort of mech)In post 1034, osuka wrote: for something that was pitched as being game-changing and defining for d1 this is unfathomably underwhelming and again, patently obvious to anyone who bothered to think about it
When you think about it, Drew doesn'tIn post 1039, osuka wrote: if it was a drew/bulge scumteam, it makes zero sense that drew wouldn't come to bat for bulge. if it's NOT a drew/bulge scumteam, then i struggle to see half of the reason we got drew to e-2 in the first place.
We're being petty at this point but how else are we supposed to take this as?In post 1035, osuka wrote:this is false. nobody said anything about a policy exec and the meta defense is pretty shit. i'm even willing to overlook the "scum being survivalistic" bit even if that's probably untrue, but you know whatever fuck itIn post 998, usesPython wrote: I mean from our perspective 1/3 of the scumreads on us are scum being survivalistic, 1/3 of the scumreads on us are basically a policy lim, and the last 1/3 are people metaing us as a singlet instead of a system so we can kinda see were you're coming from
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In post 974, osuka wrote: 2. i will lose fewer brain cells every time i read the thread because i can't take any more of the mech talk, please make it stop it's too many numbers my brain can't take this i'm losing my mind. i swear to fuck if i have to read some shit about expected values again i will fucking combust
Bulge happened because 1/3rd people tring me and hopping on the wagon, 1/3rd Enchant finding counterwagons funny, and 1/3rd Bianco and I having an sr there; plus another 1/2 me coordinating people to make the wagon happenIn post 1045, Kokichi Oma wrote: E-3 for mala. I can't see why python and bulge are/were the biggest votes so far today
To beat a dead horse here, there's mechanics in play that functionally give every townie (and this only applies to townies) X% Bulletproof which is what started the mech talkIn post 1047, Enchant wrote: All mech talk i saw is:
MAFIA WANTS TO ELIMINATE OTHER TEAM MAFIA AND DON'T WANT TO ELIMINATE SELF.
TOWN WANT TO KILL MAFIA
And dumb numbers which "confirm" it.
Keeping Enchant at E-2 to prevent them from lolhammering themselvesIn post 1057, HighPrincessErinys wrote: Seems like every wagon we start up is going to sit at E-2 until we have a consensus that we actually want it go through because E-1 puts it into Enchant lolhammer range.