Newbie 595 - Game Over!

[Muerrto]

Um...this is the random voting stage, you took that vote way too seriously

Vote: Demon

[Muerrto]

Muerrto, were you referring to me? I, actually, in turn felt that Demon was starting to "logicify" too early, and thus I criticized his application of logic; it almost sounded as if he was being too OMGUS.

This may turn out to be the shortest random voting stage... ever.

Hehe I voted Demon, so yeah, probably not referring to you.

[Muerrto]

Um...someone always dies on the first day unless the town is really, really bad.

[Muerrto]

Lol you must be another of those used to chat/IRC/AIM whatever.

Games here last a couple months but are good.

[Muerrto]

Since it would be a shame to vote off a newb on day one, I'd rather vote for an IC.

Please tell me this was a joke...

[Muerrto]

Hm... in my experience, the one's who claim day 1 is always random are usually the ones who want it to be.

My vote's good on Demon right now.

You also questioned Litral's random vote for you and OMGUS'ed him. I figured it was a random vote as well but from your further posts and your questioning of his vote I see it wasn't.

Are you simply unfamiliar with the 'random voting stage' that normally occurs? Or were you trying to find an early scapegoat to build a case on?

[Muerrto]

The vote count edit at the top is sweet!

I find it odd that Demonking is voting for massive when he hasn't done anything. Why wouldn't Demon vote for Litral or Muerrto? It seems suspicious...

I hope Demon posts soon, because it looks like he's going to be bandwagoned. I won't vote until I hear more from him.

Little anxious for a bandwagon there...

So you're encouraging Demon to OMGUS vote me or Litral just because we voted him? If he's town he doesn't know if we're scum or not and vice versa so why would voting him automatically make us scummy in his eyes?

[Muerrto]

I'm just trying to get some discussion going...

What I meant was that it was a little odd that he chose to vote for massive of all people, with no explanation, right after Walnut voted for massive too.
I'm also kind of suspicious of Walnut right now, come to think of it. He voted for massive apparently because he was an IC. Obviously the mafia would want to get rid of ICs not on their side.
But maybe massive really is mafia, and either Walnut or Demon could be his partner voting for him as a cover up?

Sorry if any of this sounds really stupid. I have no experience, so I don't really know what to be looking for...

Discussion is always good, don't take offense at anything said in these games. In mafia I call you a liar, you do the same to me, and we decide who we believe.

It was a little odd that Demon voted Massive immediately after Walnut. Massive seems to have seen it too since he asked about it. I also don't like Demon questioning Litral's vote then placing his own.

It could be distancing but sadly that's WIFOM, no way to know.

Right now I'd like to hear more from Demon, including an answer to Massive's question.

[Muerrto]

Copy and paste

[Muerrto]

Muerrto doesn't give any arguments why we should not lynch an IC. Instead he suggests that no one could/should/would vote off an IC thinking straight.

Tell me what about being an IC makes us more or less likely to be scum and I'll vote myself...

Until then

Unvote, Vote: Snafoo

for pushing the 'vote an IC' thing waaay too much.

[Muerrto]

I am particularly intrigued why you have not tried to cast suspicions on people, except those who you were voting against. Seems that a townie would not focus so much on just one target at a time. Maybe you could tell us what you think and help us find the scum instead?

Hehe actually it's the exact opposite. Scum don't care who dies as long as it's not them. They try to convince everyone that everyone else is scummy. Causing paranoia is an excellent scum tactic. If everyone's acting scummy for one reason or another, votes will be flying more.

Town very much cares.

I voted Demon because he took the random stage too seriously. His vote was NOT random, he was actually putting up a case on Litral after his first post. Later he reinforced that as I said. Now we thought he was lurking, but since he's not picking up his prod I'm assuming he's simply not playing. But did he drop out because he was nailed as scum on page 1 and he gave up? We'll see what his replacement says.

As for snafoo, he did at one point claim it was newbie-friendly to lynch an IC. But how is that pro-town? Also, statistically the IC's have the least chance to actually be scum so that's not even a good gambit. The fact that he's STILL pursuing that angle and that his top two suspects are me and Massive(the IC's) is beyond scummy. It's bad play.

He's also defending Demon which, since I believe Demon to be scummy, makes him even more so. Since Demon isn't here, I'm voting Snafoo. His arguments have been poor at best.

[Muerrto]

Muerrto doesn't give any arguments why we should not lynch an IC. Instead he suggests that no one could/should/would vote off an IC thinking straight.

Tell me what about being an IC makes us more or less likely to be scum and I'll vote myself...

Did I ever claim that? Instead of a serious response, is this all you can do? Trying to confuse the point?

Soo...what's your case to lynch the IC's then? If it's this newbie-friendly crap you in the wrong game boy. This is mafia, not the frickin care bears. I'm not sacking myself so you can play an extra day. I'm here to help the town win and whether you're newbie or not I'll lynch you. That's mafia.

Until then

Unvote, Vote: Snafoo

for pushing the 'vote an IC' thing waaay too much.

Now you're giving yourself away. I mentioned the whole thing only

once

. How is that pushing? Pushing

way too much

?

Once? Hehe, I love quoting it makes me tingle...

Since it would be a shame to vote off a newb on day one, I'd rather vote for an IC.
There's one player who pretty much asks for getting lynched (given his name). So:

Vote: Muerrto

This seemed like a joke but since you're still pursuing it...

Time for me to step in with my first random vote. I suggested to vote for an IC and chose Muerrto. Walnut was the first to step in. He liked my suggestion chose Massive (effectively spreading the votes).

Muerrto doesn't give any arguments why we should not lynch an IC. Instead he suggests that no one could/should/would vote off an IC thinking straight.

Soo...I'm sposed to give an argument why not to lynch an IC when you haven't given an argument on WHY to lynch an IC?

You lynch scum, period. Being an IC doesn't make you more or less likely to be scum so it should never be a factor in deciding.

Sadly, your top two suspects are both IC's and that's no coincidence. And you never miss a chance to mention both of those IC's in your post, even when the post has nothing to do with the other one, see below:

FoS: Massive

Um...you just replied to a post ONLY about me and ended with a vote for me and a thrown in FoS for Massive...

Where exactly did he come up?


So I repeat, give me a reason why being an IC would make one more or less likely to be scum. Give me a reason why being an IC is even a factor when determining if someone is scum.

If you can't do either one and persist in your current line of suspiscion then I have no choice but to keep my vote where it is and hope others follow. You're not simply new and misguided and your argument has no basis except to remove the more experienced players making it easier for you to win.

[Muerrto]

but I think Muerrto's last post was very... defensive. He seemed angry. Now, I don't know if that's because he's mafia, or a townie under fire trying to defend himself, but still... Sarcasm and anger just feels anti-town to me...

Hm...I don't remember ever even defending myself, could you quote me? I don't defend my actions often so I'd be surprised.

[Muerrto]

EBWOP: After a re-read I'd say the whole post was attacking, as my posts usually are. I don't do things to make me defend myself and therefore don't do it. I don't justify my actions or my posts. Meta me if you want, I'm an agressive player, always on the attack. If you slip, I'll catch it.

[Muerrto]

Scum don't care who dies as long as it's not them. They try to convince everyone that everyone else is scummy. Causing paranoia is an excellent scum tactic. If everyone's acting scummy for one reason or another, votes will be flying more.

Town very much cares.

Huh. That does not compute for me. A townie never knows who is the real scum; he has only suspicions to act on. There's no way he can be sure. But a scum does know who he points at is or is not scum. If you're townie, I'm certain you wouldn't know who the mafia is, because your reason for voting snafoo is weak (which I will discuss below).

Indeed casting about paranoia is a scummy tactic, but this does not mean townies should not analyze. It's really quite WIFOM, but as far as I know, townies hunt down whomever they suspect, and mafia hunt down whomever the townies suspect, or don't help hunting at all. Townies will definitely help the hunt because they don't know who is mafia or not. You keep seeming to know.

Incorrect. I suspect, not know. If mafia hunted down who the town suspected they'd be lynched, jumping on wagons etc.

In fact, tunnel vision is also scummy tactic.

Tunnel vision is more of a newbie tell. As I said above, scum don't really care who dies, they just want someone dead. Town cares. Is it tunnel vision if I'm pretty sure I've found the mafia? I don't think so. If I was scum, why would I pursue a vote on Snafoo when it appears to be going nowhere? Seems I could find an easier target.

Okay, now about the whole "voting off an IC" thing, Muerrto... I see it this way. snafoo voted an IC as the primary basis behind his very first vote, which was basically random. He never relied on the argument again - except he pointed towards your reluctance to accept the vote.

My reluctance to accept the vote? His reason for voting was because I'm an IC. Now you can call that random but then again, you're not Snafoo, so you'd be speaking for him. Do you feel the need or ability to do that?

If it was random then why'd he keep it and pursue it? Because it got backed up by a few others. He successfully started this idea that lynching IC's is the way to go. And yet has still not told me what difference that makes in whether someone's scum or not.

The first random vote. The entire thing is full of randomness. True, he stuffed it with a bit of logic, but I like the logic.

How is 'lynch an IC' logic in any way shape or form? It's either random or it's not. Saying his reasoning was logical makes it non-random, yes? Make up your mind.

This is no longer his case in his suspecting you. If this was his case there were two more people he could've voted. But he voted you. He had other suspicions, which you have completely ignored up to now. Also, again, first random vote, it's better not make the newbies (such as I) feel too bad about being random voted.

You're again speaking for him and his motivation in voting. Careful there, you're creating a pretty strong link. His only other suspiscion of me revolves around Demon, who was/is acting scummy, period.

You're saying his entire campaign is to "vote out the ICs"? That doesn't make sense at all. That's not his purpose, since it just plain makes no sense to be a purpose at all, but you're trying to make it sound as if it is.

How many times are you going to claim to be inside his head in one post? Post what YOU think, not what you think others think. That's my whole point in voting him, his vote makes no sense. So it's just coincidence he suspects both me and massive then? Even you found that strange as noted below:

I do want to know one thing, however, snafoo... why are you pairing Muerrto with massive? I cannot understand your argument. Keep in mind that you said that in post 60, so please use material before post 60 to convince us.

So why are you so convinced he just happens to suspect 2 IC's and it's nothing to do with his 'lynch an IC' idea getting acknowledgment? He may have mentioned it once but when others latched on he rode it.

Official Vote Count

Demonking - 1 (Litral)
massive - 1 (Demonking)
Litral - 1 (Walnut)

snaoo - 2 (massive, Muerrto)

Muerrto - 1 (snafoo)

Not Voting - 3 (mike4876, starkmoon, Super Archivist)

5 to Lynch

[Muerrto]

I've already responded to all those points and you keep saying basically 'No it's this'. This kind of back and forth mess is what the mafia likes to see because it creates a smoke screen they get to hide behind.

As for the difference, I posted what I thought about his posts. You posted what his motivations were and his reasons for voting and saying what he said, not what you thought. You posted as fact.

Case in point, obviously pursuing just the IC's makes no sense so obviously he's not doing that. Obviously voting to lynch an IC made no sense so his vote was obviously random. What you're doing there is simply giving him an out for anything he does or says. That's why you need to let him speak for himself and not defend him. That's why I say you act like you know why he's posting what he's posting.

If he turns up scum, how will that reflect on you?

This has nothing to do with IC/newbie other than IC gaves me more experience to have seen things like this before. Why do almost all newbies have to turn it into that? You want us to answer questions and give advice but when we disagree you turn it on us and say 'why because you're an IC?'. Did I ever even mention being right because I'm an IC?

Yes. As I said on another thread, if Emeril told you how to cook something, you'd listen, yes? Disagree, fine, but don't turn this into a superiority contest. You have your opinions, I have mine. And don't worry, while you're frustrating I'm certainly not offended.

[Muerrto]

Case in point, obviously pursuing just the IC's makes no sense so obviously he's not doing that. Obviously voting to lynch an IC made no sense so his vote was obviously random.

This is the sort of argument I wanted to see, and you have given one. Let's see what you're trying to say, shall we? You're saying that his entire vote was random, and he is clearly not pursuing a campaign against the ICs. This contradicts what you have said. Previously you have said that his two top suspects are both ICs because he is "voting off ICs". Do you still believe that?

Is he trying to vote off the ICs or not?

Do you read the posts or just respond to them? I was saying that's what YOU'RE saying. You're saying it was obviously a random vote because if it wasn't random it makes no sense. That's wrong. It was a BAD play if it wasn't random and I think that's exactly what it was. The quote from me above is what YOU'RE saying not me.

[Muerrto]

Oops, I completely missed out the words "Case in point". Screw that.

Hehe then ignore my response as well.

[Muerrto]

Shrug kill me then, lately almost all my newbie games have been newbies trying to teach ME how to play...and being wrong.

Analysing posts is great, doing so correctly is better.

[Muerrto]

Muerrto's meta defence about newbies trying to teach him how to play and being wrong might sound better in other circumstances, but as Litral had already explained that he had missed it, if taken with the out of proportion attack on Snafoo, sounds increasingly dodgy. FOS Muerrto for me.

I responded to his first post, then kept reading and saw his second. By the time I'd replied and said forget it he'd replied already and said he'd apologised. Check the post times.

[Muerrto]

The next post was aimed at Snafoo and Litral both and shows my frustration. Call it an appeal to emotion if that helps but I'm in 6 newbie games and if I'm getting grilled on semantics here I'm definitely gonna put less focus in this one.

Analysing posts too deeply leads to mislynches. You have to know/figure out with experience what's a scum tell, what's legit, and when to argue a case and when to not.

I try to impart that knowledge to the people I play with but most newbies, like the ones here, are more interested in assuming they know better and questioning the IC judgment. Frustrating to say the least. Think I might lay off newbie games for a bit after these 6 end.

Also, I was serious. Because if I'm lynched I've proved myself right and that's worth it to me. It's the only way I can prove myself.

[Muerrto]

There. Not semantics at all. Want to respond?

Not particularly.

[Muerrto]

I know that with only six of the nine players participating most of the time that what has happened so far is largely meaningless. We can look for tiny flaws in posts, more for practice and entertainment than for practical use, until we get the numbers up. Muerrto calls it pointless overanalysis and chooses not to do it; I call it the one game of mafia I am allowed to play and choose to do it. Muerrto has six newbie games (and possibly other non-newbie games?) on the go, while having joined mafiascum.net because I want to play mafia, this is the only option that I have. I actually agree with the one game for newbies restriction, although I would say that the slowness of this game due to lack of players makes it more irritating than it would be otherwise. So to answer Litral- I will look for holes in everyone's arguments but not necessarily think them scummy, because I am aware that we are in a bit of a limbo until the others arrive.

Ok I can definitely see that. If it helps you can be in up to 4 non-newbie games but I usually suggest chilling here till you get the feel for the place. Even if you've played before, it's really different here, in a good way though.

My apologies though, I didn't think of it from you guys end. I'll try to contribute more. I don't think I've been contributing less but I simply got to the point where beating the dead horse was getting messy and monotonous. I'm not sure how to respond since I'm basically saying no you didn't and he's saying yes you did. As I said in my last post, the only way to prove I'm right is to die. So for now I'm gonna step back from the argument and see what everyone else is thinking.

[Muerrto]

First point I'd like to make on the rest of the game is:

FoS: Mike as lurkerscum. If Vel isn't trying to replace him then he has picked up his prod, which means he's floating around and deliberately not participating. This is scummy in the extreme.

Um...we just found out he picked up his prod and didn't post...

Unvote, Vote: Mike

always. There's never a town reason to pick up your prod and not post.

Should be 1 down but if he's town he's let us all down.

[Muerrto]

If Mike's picked up his prod, not posted, and is sitting at lynch -1 and not posting he should be hammered, period. If he's picked up his prod he won't be replaced so waiting is pointless. Give him till monday I guess then kill him.

[Muerrto]

If he picked up his prod and doesn't post the mod can't do anything. He's already said that just yesterday.

I'd like to see Litral hammer Mike when the time comes.

Your hesitancy and insistence on replacing instead has me a little baffled. If he's picked up his prod he's obviously playing, so he's scum. Is he your partner and you want him replaced and not lynched?

[Muerrto]

This is a false statement. We have no idea what goes on in the minds of those who sign up for a game only not to play. I can direct you to plenty of games where a townie signs up, confirms, and then never posts again. There are also plenty of games where a mafia signs up, confirms, and never posts again, but there is no obvious ratio as to which is more likely.

Um..never posts, yep. People quit. But he picked up his prod, I'm not quite sure how to explain that clearer. That means he checked the board and more likely checked this game. He's reading the posts and not posting.

It's the worst possible scum tactic and yet newbies still use it often.

There is no reason he'd pick up his prod and not post a simple 'I'm not here'. He can't start another game while in this one so why even come to the board if he's not playing?

I'm gonna assume you missed the whole 'picked up his prod' and what that meant and assume you're not that blatantly defending him...for now.

[Muerrto]

Shrug

Unvote

Even if he's town he's hurting the game and the mod already (and correctly) said he won't replace him.

[Muerrto]

Vote: Mike

If he's town remind me not to speak to him again =p

[Muerrto]

Wow. I thought I'd have to wait a few days for the scum to leap out of the gate...

So Litral...Mike wasn't just NOT POSTING!!! We've been over this and OVER this. He picked up his prod. Let's analyze that in detail, shall we?

Picking up his prod means:

A. He came to the site.

B. He logged in if not automatically set to

C. He clicked on his messages.

D. He opened the message.


This is NOT something you go 'oops' and click a bunch of buttons. He was WATCHING THE THREAD and not posting. It's the worst possible scum tactic and the most used by newbies, period.

Not only did you go above and beyond hesitating to lynch him, you also refused to hammer. Now, how exactly would you voting him as the third vote and me hammering place suspiscion on me? When you voted you already knew I was going to place the 4th vote as soon as you did, I TOLD you! So you basically hammered, except that your extreme reluctance to was noted.

Then you leap out of the gate trying to throw suspiscion on me, the person who'd been trying to get Mike lynched for days? You wanted a replacment so you wouldn't automatically lose your partner. You should've dumped him long ago, never cling to a sinking ship.

GG.

Vote: Litral

I just finished this exact same game where the first scum lurked and the second scum clung desperately and they both went down, perfect town win.

[Muerrto]

I have in no way said that you are guilty because you hammered Mike.

Really? Are you sure?

I allowed you to hammer him because I wanted you to take the responsibility if he turned out town.

Soo...

Can you explain why you being vote 3 and me 4 and not vice versa would place it on me and not you since you knew by placing the third vote he'd be hammered?

If you weren't ok with him being hammered, why'd you place the third vote? Voting someone to make others happy is an excellent scum tell.

Also, can you please address the 'not posting' v. 'picked up his prod'? You haven't...

[Muerrto]

So, okay, we now know the following things from Muerrto's reaction.
1) Muerrto has not read my post or the details of any of the scumtells I found on him. Why? The only reason is that such information is completely irrelevant to him. He does not need to defend himself in order to help the town reach an informed decision. He just has to attack someone ferociously enough and say "oops" tomorrow. Extremely anti-town and unhelpful thoroughly.
2) Muerrto decided to vote for me despite not having read my post and accusations of him at all. If this isn't OMGUS in its pure materia form, I don't know what is.

Unless something else pops up I'm happy with where my vote is.

Cease and desist with the personal attacks. My posts aren't 'gibberish', I read every word you said, I believed none of it. You played badly, deal with it and move on. If you're not lynched today I'll be floored and if you're not scum I'd say read over some more games before you play again.

Last I'll address this issue because I'm not getting into another argument with a newbie because they think they know how to play...

[Muerrto]

EBWOP: Oh and I was saying lynch me knowing it would help the town from the info, very different from your quote. Since this isn't LYLO if you guys want to kill me you can if you'll take Litral next. See if he'll give you that same opportunity...

[Muerrto]

Look, this is the last time you're going to be insulting my playstyle.

Ok...this happens in almost every newbie game. I never insulted your playing style. You're in a newbie game for a reason, you're new to this site. If you don't like being in newbie games and being considered a newbie, don't play them.

When you make a bad play or a bad argument, as an IC, I tell you so. No one's insulting you. You however, have insulted me personally multiple times. It's annoying and immature.

If you don't want to be 'taught' go play other games and don't play newbie games. If you want to learn how to play better, play newbie games and take criticism better, period.

I've never once insulted you or your playstyle. You made an obvious bad play as pointed out by Q21 as well and you did in fact try to throw suspiscion for the hammer on me despite what you claim and you've been called on that by Massive.

So if I'm not the only one seeing these, why are you attacking me so vehemently?

My vote stands till someone's dead. I won't post in a thread where I'm insulted constantly. If this is your 'scum playstyle' change it. It won't win you any friends.

[Muerrto]

Sigh..Litral posted again

Unvote, Vote: Muerrto

Kill me seriously. If this is just a scum gambit then the town wins.

Massive, Q21, please place a vote. This is not an appeal to emotion.

There are many times where a mislynch can give info to the town and if you think there isn't then you prove my point about learning.

[Muerrto]

Shrug your choice. I wanted you to kill me to prove I was town then lynch Litral.

If he won't let you do the opposite(lynch him then lynch me) then he's scum, period.

Sounded like a good method to me. Would like to hear Massive's take on this.

[Muerrto]

Agreed. It takes 2 more votes anyway. I meant I wasn't doing it like he said 'go ahead lynch me I give up' I was doing it as a valid strategy. He is annoying but I'm not gonna throw the game because of it.

[Muerrto]

Abandon? Um...I've been posting near non-stop all of day 1 and so far day 2...

I don't think calling my participation into question is something that you personally want to be doing...

As for analysing the night kill, always pointless. The scum have their own agenda, we don't know what it is or why and it's WIFOM to assume anything.

I want you to kill me to HELP the town so yes it does help.

My point is Litral is not okay with it being the other way around. He's sure I'm scum, I know he is. So he should be okay with dying first, yes? He's not. I am.

Hopefully you guys will lynch one of us and then, if need be, lynch the other. But if he dies first the town wins, so he doesn't like that idea. Says mislynches are bad for the town. But if I'm lynched second then the town wins anyway, right? So why are you not willing to die?

[Muerrto]

If you think my vote is OMGUS I'm sorry. There's not much more I can say to you. But as I already stated, other people had problems with your actions at the end of day 1 as well. That's why I'm voting you. You jumping right out of the gate and voting me isn't what I expected but I did expect you to try and get me lynched.

[Muerrto]

Your subsequent over-reaction only confirms my suspiscion. Scum backed into a corner foams at the mouth and becomes rabid.

[Muerrto]

Dude, stop w/the immaturity (Mr. Muerrto, you've been a help etc.). Act whatever age you are or if you're still a kid try and act older. I'm not replying to you any more. If you turn up scum I'll be disgusted with your play. If you're town, learn to not take things personally.

I voted myself as a valid strategy, if you don't buy that or understand it then so be it, that's why you're in this game.

Unvote

I'll post again when you start acting like you're not in grade school.

[Muerrto]

Slight correction.

If me and Litral are both town you'll lose me/him today, someone tonight, the other tomorrow and someone the next night.

You'll be at 3 people w/1 scum. So yes. You won't lose if we're both town so it's definitely in the town's interest.

Although discussion in between is of course also good for the town.

But there's no disputing the idea works to weed out the scum nicely, and also gives a good chance of catching them before the last day if it's one of us, which we both seem to think it is.

[Muerrto]

Litral, right now we should both be assuming we're both town so that IF we both die and we're both town we can contribute NOW as to who could be scum out of the other 5 so they'll know that's legit when they're in LYLO. If one of is scum it doesn't matter if it's legit because we'll be dead and the town will win anyway.

I was just re-reading and thought I'd mention that if you're not already doing it.

[Muerrto]

Reading back, I'm actually floored Walnut's town. It was more his argument that we should vote IC's although Snafoo started it(he says as a joke).

It was also weird that Snafoo quoted the prod on Mike, then said lets wake up people and voted Demon, not Mike.

Snafoo was also pushing the Massive/Muerrto thing hard so now that Mike's dead, where does that leave his supiscions? It'll be interesting to see when Litral reads back assuming I'm town, how he takes the 'IC' argument differently. It definitely reflects poorer on Snafoo once you 'confirm' me town.

Now we reach the Mike vote. Me, Q21, SA, Walnut, and Litral. Stark, Massive, and Snafoo didn't vote him. Since I didn't see bussing occuring or any other stronger ties to Mike and since I'm assuming Litral is town, my suspiscion still lies solely with Snafoo.

He stayed well clear of the vote and has barely chimed in day 2.

Walnut didn't really throw out any suspiscions day 1 too much until he voted Mike which we all know was pro-town.

Not much of a re-read since day 1 was for the majority me and Litral and I'm assuming you're town atm

Maybe he'll get more I missed.

[Muerrto]

Shrug you do seem a bit more competent than to do what you did yesterday to save Mike. If you legitimately didn't want to lynch an empty seat just remember how it reflected on you in the future. If he's picked up his prod and not posted(btw check by poster, Mike NEVER posted in the thread once, EVER, I've never seen that) then he's scum, period. If he's simply not posting and not picking up his prod then he's not playing.

Huge difference.

I'm not sure about Q21 thing, he definitely seemed reluctant to go with it.

SA on the other hand was more than happy jumping on it immediately, that was a bit surprising.

[Muerrto]

A check in is all we needed. Get better and come back. Sorry you're having such a hard time.

[Muerrto]

Well, Snafoo and SA both posted on friday. The thread always dies on the weekends sadly. Snafoo hasn't said anything really today and SA jumped on Litral too quick IMO then jumped back off but still didn't actually say anything. That was weird.

[Muerrto]

SA also came out first thing and said Massive and Snafoo are suspiscious because they didn't vote Mike which is WIFOM. I'm gonna do a re-read on SA.

[Muerrto]

Same here but I have to assume Litral's town for now because if he is and is killed I'll probably be killed tomorrow and I know I'm town.

[Muerrto]

Elaborate? Um..

So now Litral wants us to kill him too!? What's up with you people...?

Assuming you're both townies, if we lynch both of you, we'll still have 4 pro-town players, and if either of you is mafia, we win. Might as well give it a try, I guess. =/

Vote: Litral

But with you guys dead, the game will kinda die too, since you two post the most...

Wait, so we're not doing the "lynch Litral and Muerrto" thing anymore? Whatever....

Unvote

Didn't vote you for it, just said it was weird.

[Muerrto]

Yeah, and sadly Starkmoon could be scum too since she's posted like twice and there's no way we'd know. That's a little scary too.

[Muerrto]

Yeah, wasn't saying she's faking sick and I think SA was kidding. But she could just happen to be scum and if she never posts, we'll never know. No possible way she'll lose unless we lynch her for the heck of it. Sucks.

[Muerrto]

Lol you posted in a span of 2 hours when I'm snoring. Slow down.

[Muerrto]

And SA, Stark, Massive...

[Muerrto]

This isn't 24/7. You haven't posted something substantial in a while. Compound that with Starkmoon(unfortunately), Massive, and Snafoo's participation and the game is technically dead at this time. Scum will win simply by us having no more lynches. I'm almost ready to request the mod kill it.

These games do take a certain amount of participation and dedication. Anyone who doesn't think they can do that should re-evalute whether they want to play it. The problem is, when you play anyway it hurts the game for those people who are actively participating.

I work a 40 hour job just like everyone else. I have a very active social life and enjoy getting drunk as often as possible. Yet I've found time to post almost every day at least once. So that's not an excuse...

Official Vote Count

snafoo - 1 (q21)

Not Voting - 6 (Litral, massive, Muerrto, snafoo, starkmoon, Super Archivist)

4 to Lynch (3 at deadline, May 13).

[Muerrto]

Yeah, wasn't really pointed at you although since you are participating more than them I'd like to see a substantial post. Maybe do a re-read and tell us what you think?

More at Snafoo and somewhat at Massive altho as an IC I'm assuming he's got a few games going atm(I have 7 currently) so he has an excuse.

[Muerrto]

He's definitely been acting scummy. I'd lynch him.

Vote: Vel

[Muerrto]

Screw this we have 3 tries, yes?

Unvote, Vote: Snafoo

Wakey wakey time!

[Muerrto]

Granted the whole case on you is incompetence and usually works because you're a newbie yet you seem to be a competent newbie who simply made a horrible mistake that you won't make again. I'm less and less convinced you knew how badly you were telegraphing yourself as his partner. At this point I would lynch both SA and Snafoo before you.

[Muerrto]

Am I correct to say that the only argument against me is my unwillingness to hammer mikescum? If later, after the non-posters post again, I have to defend myself - most likely - I don't want to be seen strawmanning your argument. I certainly haven't seen any other arguments from you, as far as I know in the latest posts it's been "I'd really want to lynch Litral" repeated several times.

If there are other arguments let's get them sorted out when there aren't so many pages yet.

That's really my only argument against you despite our conflict over Snafoo yesterday and I've since decided you're not dumb enough to do that as scum but you're new enough to do it as a newbie.(don't take offense, that's a compliment)

I don't like Snafoo's absence so I'm waiting to find out if he answered his prod.

[Muerrto]

EBWOP: I also don't like SA's oppotunism. Like I said I'd probably lynch both of them before you.

[Muerrto]

That's good. Hope you're better soon(if you're reading this) but that'll help the game. Thanks.

[Muerrto]

Anyway, yeah, snafoo is not looking good to me now....

Naw, it's opposite. If he didn't pick up his prod then he's not lurking, he's gone. He'll be replaced soon and we'll get a new player.

[Muerrto]

Shaka!!, you FOSed me for being eager to bandwagon Mike, but Mike turned out to be mafia... If I was scum, I would not want to do that.

Well, that's pretty bad WIFOM. I think his point was that because you jumped on so quickly you knew he was mafia because he's your partner. Not saying I agree or disagree but that was the point.

[Muerrto]

But if I was mafia, why would I want to lynch my partner?

I can see where shaka is coming from, but I don't think the strategy of mafia voting for their partners would be worth it in a game with only two mafia.

This is why you're in a newbie game =) It's called bussing. Mafia vote for each other CONSTANTLY. If I get paired with a newbie who's flailing I cut him loose, no question. Saying mafia wouldn't vote for mafia is definitely WIFOM, horrible too.

On second glance, I don't buy that you don't know what bussing is since your other posts seem to grasp the game okay. Also, you were fine voting for Litral even though he also voted for Mike?

Hm...don't like this post.

[Muerrto]

Ok yeah I can't read all that.

@Massive: I could vote for any of those 3 because I don't think you or Q21 or Stark/Shaka are scum and I know I'm not. That means if we lynch all 3 we still win for town. So yeah, pick one.

@Snafoo: Pointless really to try to respond once AGAIN to that argument. Let me just say this much(and since I'm not doing it you can see that I am in fact correct):

I don't defend myself. Ever. So saying I'm defensive is quite funny. In fact I think you said that earlier and I told you to quote where you thought I was defensive. You never did.

If someone FoS's or votes me and I vote them back, that would be OFFensive, not DEfensive. However, if you can quote where I ever OMGUS voted someone without clearly stating my reasons, whether you agree with them or not does NOT change whether my vote is OMGUS or not, then I'll glady agree that I have been overly OFFensive in my voting.

But then, I always am. The main reason is because most newbies are overly cautious with their votes. This causes deadlines, mislynches etc. Litral, if he's town, was FAR too cautious with his vote day 1 and see what confusion it's caused day 2? Even he sees that now.

So while enjoy the trip down memory lane, could you address the Mike lynch, why you weren't on it, and the occurences day 2?

[Muerrto]

Muerrto

: You really don't think shaka! could be scum? Is it because he jumped on Litral? Because I have no idea about what starkmoon is thanks to her illness, and I can't imagine that two pages is enough to trust him yet.

Well he jumped on Litral but, despite it being WIFOM, he's also been extremely vocal in those 2 pages and that always screams town to me. Not saying he CAN'T be scum, but I'd vote those other 3 before him.

[Muerrto]

Hm...good catch I missed that. I said very clearly and in several different posts that I was assuming Litral was innocent so that if we both died we'd still be able to give input since we'd both be town and our input could be taken as legit.

The only reason I changed my opinion on Litral was because he was correct when he said that if I assume he's scum then I assume he's dumb. What he did with regards to Mike yesterday would've been a monumentally horrible move as scum. While a bad move as town it just means he's new, not dumb. While I CAN see a newbie doing it and trying to play it off, Litral has been playing alot more level headed than that and I DON'T see him doing it.

Now CAN he be scum? Of course. I don't believe I ever ruled it out anywhere. But the fact that he'd be horrible scum lowers him on my suspect list a bit.

[Muerrto]

I wanna see what his replacment says but I'm ready to lynch him unless it's amazing. I think he ducked because of the heat.

Official Vote Count

W!nt3r - 2 (q21, Muerrto)

Super Archivist - 1 (massive)
Litral - 1 (shaka!!)

Not Voting - 3 (Litral, W!nt3r, Super Archivist)

4 to Lynch.

[Muerrto]

Usually when you duck tho you post in thread and say why. He was lurking almost all game and popping in then dissappeared. Not a good townie point there.

Also, why claim at 2 votes? Anxious?

Vote stands for now.

[Muerrto]

But I wasn't the one who ducked.

You're just focusing on him because you(muerrto) were his prime suspect day one. And psychologically you feel that because He left the game with those impressions, you feel unjustified in pursuing his arguments against you and trying your damnedest to have him believe you.

To " ... see what his replacement says but I'm ready to lynch him.." is a cynical statement.

You are willing to vote a fresh face, and someone who can give new insight to finding scum based on the "playstyle" of another player. That is rather rash and scummy. You don't want me to post my ideas and by doing so, dilute the minds of those you may have convinced of your innocence and would rather push a blind vote on a new player.

Ahahahaha this post was horrible. An EXTREME appeal to emotion. 'I'm new, hear me out' etc.

You've still got the same role dude. If Snafoo was scum, so are you. Also, way to misquote me. What I said was:

I wanna see what his replacment says but I'm ready to lynch him unless it's amazing. I think he ducked because of the heat.

So how exactly am I trying to stop you from posting your ideas? I called for them. Dilute minds? Blind vote? Is your join date correct? Are you really an IC?

How is it a blind vote? Why do replacements always wanna 'wipe the slate clean'? It doesn't work that way. If you were scum as Snafoo you'll be scum now. It's your job as a replacement to prove you're not.

Your overreaction, vehemence, appeal to emotion, and OMGUS vote are definitely noted tho.

Vote stands.

I wanted to wait for clear, concise, logical arguments because I THOUGHT Snafoo was simply not participating. But Winter's flying off the handle because I asked him why he claimed early? Yeah, that was a bit nuts.

[Muerrto]

Nothing more than that? How did you feel about Winter's replacement? How did you feel about his vote and reason? How did you feel about him blowing up at me for asking why he claimed? How did you feel about him claiming in his first post?

Let's get some more discussion here people.

[Muerrto]

Yeah.

[Muerrto]

Yeah, me too. That's why the questions. He stays on the sidelines, puts in little input, and seems to agreeable with whoever is looking for him to agree with.

[Muerrto]

EBWOP: seems too*

But I didn't like Winter's overreaction either.

I already said I'd lynch either of them, or Litral. But less Litral.

[Muerrto]

Its not an over-reaction, It's a statement of fact. You are making a game altering choice based on information that is no longer relevant. Namely Snafoo's posts.

With that said. I fos'ed SA for his lack of insight, sub par posting habits, continued rehashing of other player's opinions and posts, and general active lurking.

I voted Muerrto as an OMGUS because he would, going back to an argument in the page 8 to 10 range, He would rather kill off an inactive than see new information... i don't think he's scum. I think he's blind to any new input, which in and of itself is not helpful to the town.

Shrug I'm done responding to you because your lack of comprehension bothers me. I need you to re-read all my posts...then read them two more times. Because your reading skills are poor.

I said MULTIPLE times and QUOTED myself saying it that I wanted to see what you'd say and you KEEP saying I'm trying to stop your arguments. So far all your 'arguments' have been 'please leave me alone, I'm not Snafoo, forget what Snafoo said, you won't let me speak' etc. That's an appeal to emotion and makes you look worse. That's #1.

Second, if you think Snafoo's posts are now irrelevant? I'd like you to explain that to me in detail please. I must be in a weird game where a replacment's role is randomly assigned and you DON'T get the same PM that Snafoo got. Because if you DO get the same PM Snafoo got, and the town THOUGHT Snafoo was scummy, wouldn't that...

Sorry, too much logic. I'll slow it down some.

U R Snafoo. Snafoo is U. If Snafoo scum then U scum. If Snafoo town then U town. Snafoo was scummy so U scummy. Ugh...

So stop complaining people won't let you talk and TALK!!!

[Muerrto]

You can remove chance by believing me, or you can vote to lynch me. And go into night... it really is your choice, as I can't be the one to hammer myself. ( i am assuming.)

But i sure would love to so that the town looses because this game, from an outside coming in, has been full of arguments based on trivial content as is.

Wait...so you talk about hammering yourself(which you can of course), you talk about 'believing you' even though you've not posted any reason for us to yet.

AND you say you wish you could so the town loses??? Can you please replace out then? If you can't handle replacing into the hot seat...don't replace. Don't ever say you hope the town loses and you wish you could make it happen if you're town.

Ever.

[Muerrto]

That is not an appropriate metaphor. You are forced to inherit snafoo's role. The next president is not forced to inherit any of Bush's traits at all.

No one ever said you have bad play because snafoo had bad play. We have, however, considered that you may be scum because snafoo was scum. The statements accusing you of having bad play and snafoo having bad play are not related.

QFT

Period.

Your entire argument Winter has been 'I'm not scum because I'm town. I'm town because I say I'm town.'

What the hell is that? Can you even TRY to play the game correctly? Ignoring the rest of your childish posts(the multiple languages, Hablo espanol btw, the internetese, etc.)

[Muerrto]

Ok...that was a weird quote. Did you wanna elaborate?

[Muerrto]

Ugh we've got another Evilgorrillaz(Vel will get that) on our hands.

1. Unvote yourself

2. Give us an analysis of all the players.

3. Don't vote someone OMGUS with no reasons or explanations

4. Take the maturity level of your posting and kick it up a few notches

5. If you're scum don't just throw in the towel. If you're town, stop hurting the town's chances to win.

6. We will not wipe the slate clean because if you're scum then you're still scum. BUT you are correct that you can't be held accountable if Snafoo was just a bad player. So convince us you're a good one. You haven't so far.

7. If you're town you should understand that we have THREE chances to catch scum before the town loses. THREE. We're in an awesome postion. Being so reluctant to die and saying you wish you could so the town would lose makes you look even scummier. No one should be afraid of being lynched right now. Right now all you should care about is information, period.

8. I've NEVER tried to stop you from posting and I NEVER will. I'm possibly the most verbose player you'll ever see(besides BaB maybe) so I'll never stifle discussion. If you can quote where I told you to not post I'd apprecate it. Otherwise...POST!

[Muerrto]

Ok...that was a weird quote. Did you wanna elaborate?

Yes i was going to say playing the game correctly is saying there are finite strategies that will guarantee victory. This is a false statement, as there is no proven method that one way of playing is correct.

We can however be pretty sure that voting yourself won't make you win...

[Muerrto]

And your point?


I really don't care about winning at this point, because if I was part of this town, I would like to see you all run amok like chickens with no heads. And in the end game, when I find out who the other scum was, THAT will be when I decide weather i've won or not.

Mod: Can you read this post and replace him whether he wants it or not? Or can we simply black list him so he doesn't ruin any other games?

This is ridiculous. If you want to play, play. If you don't, don't. But don't ruin it for the rest of the people playing.

[Muerrto]

Oh, and if he can't be replaced just because he's a prick(and I don't think he can). Just hammer him. We've got 2 other chances to catch scum and all he's doing is killing the game with his horrible attitude.

[Muerrto]

Shrug I guess. It's M-day weekend so likely they're busy. I could really care less whether Winter is town or not right now since he's said he feels he wins by guessing the scum but doesn't care whether the town wins or loses. I'm tempted to report him to Flay or someone. What he's doing isn't a 'playstyle' it's simply horrible and killing any enjoyment the game has to offer.

Period.

[Muerrto]

Sigh you finally start to post then degenerate again...

If you look at the post times you'll see you were FINALLY posting WHILE I was posting. If you wanna play, play. Don't go back to running away.

Official Vote Count

W!nt3r - 2 (q21, Muerrto)

Super Archivist - 1 (massive)
Litral - 1 (shaka!!)

Not Voting - 2 (Litral, Super Archivist, W!nt3r)

4 to Lynch.

[Muerrto]

And for the record, your post was great and your analysis of my playstyle was excellent!

If I promise not to keep attcking you and you promise to keep it up, come back =p

Not sure why it took so long to get that out of you.

[Muerrto]

Winter, Snafoo's replacment tells me that he wasn't playing, not lurking. I wasn't ready to see a bandwagon crush him or anything but if he wasn't participating, since the town was so far ahead, I was fine w/getting rid of him.

I'm very much liking your posting and your character analysis was good as well. I think you misunderstood my original post, altho claiming at lynch -2 is early, most definitely, and we got off on the wrong foot.

Participation is key and I wasn't seeing it from Snafoo. Your immediate OMGUS on me made it worse. I'm not how exactly I pissed you off but I'm glad you decided to give it another shot.

Unvote

for now as we hear from some of the others.

[Muerrto]

Lol thanks for replacing. And for being very active and agressive. I get so much crap for my agressive playstyle it's nice to find someone to butt heads with as long as we don't butt too much. IMO I thought it sounded like you wanted us to lose too which is why me and Litral were more than happy to get rid of you and why I simply asked the mod to ditch you.

I just recently had to deal with another player acting the same way and it's frustrating when people give up and kill the game.

[Muerrto]

Vote: Winter

for the survivor crap. If you don't like mafia, don't play. What you're playing isn't mafia and I much prefer mafia. I thought you'd gotten better, I was wrong...

Hammer him now before I start going off again. Oh well, wasted day(assuming he's town) but playing only for himself is selfish, childish, and against the spirit of the game.

[Muerrto]

This is like saying

'I win a football game if I carry the ball the most'

Bullshit! You win when your team wins. Get with the picture or get out of the picture.

Never heard anything more selfish in my life...

And this is a NEWBIE game, it's for the NEWBIES!!!

Us IC's are just here to HELP them LEARN!!! But apparently...you don't give a $hit about that. Sad...

Go play a theme game or something.

[Muerrto]

I'm in a game right now with 8 replacments and we're playing fine. There is absolutely NO excuse for playing just for yourself. If it's been 2 years then take a hint and read page 1's rules and follow them.

[Muerrto]

This is useless banter. As it does not matter. I've told you that what you think is different than what i think. This point would only matter to the game at hand if all players were in agreement with what constitutes winning.

The rules say what constitutes winning. This isn't about what you think and what he thinks. You can't sit down to a game of monopoly and say 'If I get the most hotels I win'. That's not the damn rules!

And I have GOT to stop reading your posts and replying to them...

[Muerrto]

Can someone hammer so we can try a take 2 tomorrow?

[Muerrto]

7. Once a player is lynched, the game enters twilight until I post a death scene; the lynched player may not post during twilight but all other living players may continue to post.

You just quoted the rules and didn't follow them =p

And you know what I meant by the rules with regards to your PM.

At least the nightmare is over...

[Muerrto]

He has to be town. No way he just tried to pull a 'I'm town' gambit and hammer himself.

Basically all he did was hurt the town's chances to win.

Shrug, I've already mentally noted his name as someone I never wanna see in the same game as me again.

[Muerrto]

Ok...so he didn't get a guilty result night 1 or else he would've spoken up. Which means he got an innocent, most likely on Litral but I'm gonna re-read to see.

[Muerrto]

Well...he voted Snafoo/Winter. He still wanted SA dead all day tho. He questioned Q21 and Shaka both a couple times. He even asked me why I was not suspiscious of Shaka.

That leaves you. Not to confirm an innocent but it's quite obvious.

That said I'd be good with an SA lynch today since Massive's been confirmed and he liked killing him.

Let's take our time tho, we only have 2 tries left. I'd like to hear something from the lurkers.

[Muerrto]

Out of Shaka, Q21, and SA(our only suspects IMO because I know myself and Massive cleared Litral pretty much) I'd rather lynch SA first.

Not saying it's 100% you're scum, but close.

Official Vote Count

Not Voting - 5 (q21, Litral, Muerrto, shaka!!, Super Archivist)

3 to Lynch.

[Muerrto]

Yeah, if it was more subtle I'd have let it stay unsaid but Massive was killed for a reason. That's why SA's WIFOM about not killing Massive because it'd make him look bad is useless because whoever is scum HAD to kill Massive.

So I'd like to hear from Q and Shaka but I'm pretty okay with a SA lynch today. If we're somehow wrong we still have the next day at LYLO as a last resort.

[Muerrto]

No. I said he investigated Litral at night. I said I liked lynching you because I can trust Massive's posts because he's confirmed town.

Obviously Massive checked Litral after the Mike thing. But he seemed to like lynching you and not me or Litral so I'm going with what a confirmed town IC said.

[Muerrto]

True he can make mistakes. But being confirmed town means he can't lie, or buss, or frame etc. So we can TRUST his posts. I didn't say take them as gospel, I said TRUST.

Since he's an IC and has experience, and since he nailed me as scum in my first loss EVER as scum(grrr) I also trust his judgment and playing ability.

[Muerrto]

I'd lynch SA before Q21 or Shaka I think. We need more from Shaka tho since Shaka=Starkmoon. Starkmoon had a reason to not be here, Shaka doesn't and is making me question Starkmoon's reason which is bad if she was legit(and since she had someone else post for her the first day I assume she was). But Shaka needs to show up or be replaced.

[Muerrto]

I wanna hear from Shaka

Mod: Prod Shaka?

[Muerrto]

Um...content now that you're back?

[Muerrto]

3 to lynch, 1 scum alive

Vote: Shaka

it's not LYLO but coming back after a prod to say 'HI' then leaving again?

I think not.

Official Vote Count

Super Archivist - 1 (q21)
Battousai - 1 (Muerrto)

Not Voting - 3 (Litral, Battousai, Super Archivist)

3 to Lynch.

[Muerrto]

I'm ready to see Shaka lynched. We didn't know Starkmoon because she was sick. Shaka came in strong, then lurked like no one's business. Then comes back and lurks again. Not townie behavior.

[Muerrto]

Um..yeah but he lurked for like a week before that...

[Muerrto]

Mod: Did he answer his prod?

[Muerrto]

Small note. I started a large 25 person game AFTER this one. It's on the last day now. Day 4...

[Muerrto]

Depends. All my games were crawling so I cut and pasted this into all of them to stimulate discussion.

Here we're really just waiting on Vel to tell us if Shaka took his prod.

[Muerrto]

Hehe welcome Battousai =) long time no see

[Muerrto]

Well, day 1 was lynch Mike, the guy who NEVER posted, literally. Never posted once but answered his prod. It's funny.

Litral messed up and defended him being lynched far too long but has made up for that day 2.

Stark was replaced by Shaka which is you. Stark never posted for good reason, Shaka went off then dissappeared, then you.

Snafoo was replaced by Winter who flipped out and killed himself(skip that part it's useless).

SA is probably my most likely kill today since he tried to say killing Quag implicates him but Quag dropped mad cop hints day 2 because he investigated Litral and found him town so Quag had to die.

That's a summary I'd say the rest of the players(except maybe SA on the Quag part) would agree with.

So Litral's confirmed town thanks to confirmed and dead Quag.

We have 2 lynches and it's kind of between you and SA. SA's quite a bit more suspect but that's cause your predecessors never posted.

[Muerrto]

LMAO yeah, sry, too many games

[Muerrto]

We were voting Shaka for lurking which is a perfectly legit reason, especially after Starkmoon being his predecessor and after Mike being lynched day 1 as scum and he lurked.

Unvote

while you re-read if it makes you feel better. Plus I said I still suspect SA over you.

[Muerrto]

What have I done to make me suspiscious?

[Muerrto]

Lol

[Muerrto]

Ok, I'm back (and $295 richer ). The reason I find Muerrto suspicious is his wanting to be lynched to prove Litral was scum. Saying that he is willing to be lynched and Litral isn't proves that he, Muerrto, is town and Litral is scum is not only illogical (as that doesn't prove Litral is scum), but an empty threat (he wasn't lynched, or put as much pressure on him. q21 may find that protown but I find actually lynching Muerrto in that instance a nulltell and Muerrto offering it somewhat scummy.

Oh come on. After Litral's refusal to vote Mike yesterday of course I thought he was scum. So did Massive apparently since he investigated him. Without that confirmed cop claim I'd probably still have doubts.

[Muerrto]

Weak reasonings as we see Massive is a confirmed cop.

[Muerrto]

Where would massive being cop make my reasonings weak?

He didn't use the 'lynch all ICs' to list you and massive as his top 2 suspects, but other reasonings as posted in 60.

His reasonings, not yours.

[Muerrto]

No. I got Winters lynched, not Snafoo. We all know why Winters got lynched, very, very different.

[Muerrto]

Muerrto- ya, but at the time no one knew anyone else's roles except the mafia. So I don't see how massive being cop would explain your posts or make snafoo's reasonings weak. Now on to more reading....

Yes but he was saying me and Massive were scumbuddies. That was his whole schtick. If he was wrong about Massive, why would you think otherwise about me? It should be a null tell, neither good nor bad. Otherwise you're putting more weight of his argument on me than Massive which makes no sense.

[Muerrto]

This makes Muerrto's latest post irrelevant. He should explain his reasons for how he responded to snafoo, now that we all know what you're talking about.

Yes but he was saying me and Massive were scumbuddies. That was his whole schtick. If he was wrong about Massive, why would you think otherwise about me? It should be a null tell, neither good nor bad. Otherwise you're putting more weight of his argument on me than Massive which makes no sense.

K, done

And pushing this old mess makes you and Battousai look scummy, Battousai less so because he's new here.

[Muerrto]

Battousai seems legit to me because he could've jumped on the SA bandwagon alot earlier instead of pursuing me, a thread most of the town considers dead, with little to no attention placed on himself.

Litral is cleared period and I know my role. So it's SA or Q.

I'm ready to vote SA but I wanna hear from him first.

[Muerrto]

Yeah it's open for discussion and criticism, props etc

[Muerrto]

Sigh...he sounds sincere but he's given me no reason not to do this. If Q is scum he deserves the win assuming he can pull it off tomorrow. Litral is confirmed and I know my role so I'm thinking Battousai tomorrow but only because I never had a good read on Starkmoon or Shaka.

Anyway,

Vote: SA

I hope we're right or at least we're right tomorrow.

[Muerrto]

Surprise surprise. Scum killed the confirmed guy =p

[Muerrto]

Sigh and Battousai = Shaka = Starkmoon and Q21 = Demonking...

WTF you're both scum!

I'll have to re-read. The Starkmoon thing kinda makes it hard and Shaka dissappearing too after playing hardcore was weird.

Q21's been a voice of reason but so am I when I'm scum.

Sigh =p

[Muerrto]

I'm re-reading tomorrow btw, sorry for the delay.

[Muerrto]

Q21 is NOT scum, he was the first one to call out Mike for lurking. NO one had brought attention to it even though Mike had NEVER posted the entire game. His mention brought about the immediate lynch of Mike. Unless he was super bussing he's not the scum. Here we go:

Vote: Battousai

let's see how quickly I'm wrong if he is scum lol

[Muerrto]

Q21, please check in without voting when you can if you're town.

[Muerrto]

Of course he COULD be scum, how the heck can anyone ever be 100% sure? That's a horrible question.

[Muerrto]

Ummm if I'm sure enough to think you're scum and vote you in LYLO, why would I respond to your arguments since from my point of view they're coming from scum. That makes no sense.

[Muerrto]

Well, this game not only had a ton of replacing but it also had Starkmoon and Winters(one couldn't help it and one couldn't play, respectively) so don't think of it as a traditional example.

Sorry Batt, I really thought Q bussing Mike that hard core was a bit much.

@Q: While Mike not posting had to have been frustrating. Since no one else had mentioned him(for some reason, why HADN'T we?), why call him out like that? I'm all for bussing but why do it if you don't have to?

Good game people. Long, drug out, frustrating lol, but good game.

[Muerrto]

I did not particularly enjoy how much attention I got for trying to get mike replaced instead of hammered, but it did teach me an important lesson: that mafia is a game of the majority trying to root out the minority, and so doing anything a minority would do is dangerous and should be carefully thought out.

QFT. While town's #1 job is to find the scum, your #2 job is to avoid doing anything scummy that will cause a mislynch and take suspiscion off the real scum. You learned that lesson well and quickly. You'll do well in future games. Logical, ordered thinking.

Sorry again for the loss people but because of Starkmoon's unique situation I simply had no read on Battousai whatsoever and Q21 was able to buss his partner easily since he NEVER posted.

Speaking of which, has anyone heard from Mike? He picked up his prod so he was still reading I assume. Q?

[Muerrto]

My town ratio sucks lol

[Muerrto]

Yeah, Oman nailed me on a fake claim because the real doctor protected me instead of Oman...the CLAIMED COP!!!

Oman was like, no one would fake claim not protecting the cop. I was like, no one would NOT protect the cop lol. So yeah, how the heck could I predict the doctor would screw up and get me lynched lol

[Muerrto]

Ouchie

[Muerrto]

I feel for the rest of the players every time I get a town PM.

Ditto OMG QFT I'm stealing this for my Sig btw

[Muerrto]

But my problem isn't just that I lose, it's that I'm sooo bad at nailing the scum and soo sure of myself that I CAUSE the loss lol

Shrug, I enjoy being scum anyway, maybe subconsciously I do it on purpose.

GO SCUM!

[Muerrto]

IF you have a doc. Otherwise you have a dead cop and get yourself lynched hehe.

But ditto on the focusing. Especially in newbie games. I forget that just because someone slipped up doesn't mean they did it maliciously, but that they simply...slipped up. But the opposite of that is forgiving tells so I'm like...must...maintain...balance...

[Muerrto]

Yeah, but props to Q for killing off the whole town by himself without appearing to do it lol I'm assuming Mike isn't around anymore.

[Muerrto]

I think Mike gets an Epic Fail against his name here... I'd love to have a conversation with him to know what he was thinking though.

Lol someone watches AotS mmm...Olivia....

[Muerrto]

And more in this game than my active ones