Mini 626 - Crew vs. Pigs - GAME OVER!!

[raider8169]

Hi all!

Vote Cubsfan4ever

I dont like baseball much, that seems like a scum activity.

[raider8169]

Happy Birthday Cass!

What is that in your avatar though? It looks like an off colored Dodo bird.

[raider8169]

Wow I learned something new today a shoebill is real and cool looking, well that and Matin is also scum for liking the jets. You just wait for day 2! I am so going to OMGUS vote you!

[raider8169]

What's that hanging outta your shirt?!

Its a water gun. Its summer and the suit is hot! Cant you get an fat bald guy a break?!?!

[raider8169]

As true as it could be it also could be scum trying to gain the towns trust.

I would like to know how everyone feels about the role claim atleast for the time being, opinions are always allowed to be changed on new information.

I will start and say I think its true. Next?

[raider8169]

As true as it could be it also could be scum trying to gain the towns trust.

I would like to know how everyone feels about the role claim atleast for the time being, opinions are always allowed to be changed on new information.

I will start and say I think its true. Next?

I think its true as well.

I also think you may be feigning comfort. You've made four posts and have tried to facilitate discussion. I think you may be compensating for a tendency to lurk.

FoS: raider8169

A tendency for lurking? If anything I have a problem with posting too much.

Thats cool though. I would like to see you start up some conversations because I am too busy lurking.

[raider8169]

I have never been part of someone claiming this early. I wasnt sure if people would say if they believed it or not.

[raider8169]

I have never been part of someone claiming this early. I wasnt sure if people would say if they believed it or not.

But didn't you think that they would obviously state that eventually?

Eventually, sure. That would of waited until there was a lynch case against you. I just wanted to know now.

[raider8169]

I was leaning more towards one or 2 people started a case hoping to get a bandwagon going.

At least I see your point and agree it wasn't needed.

[raider8169]

*snip*
As stated, we did learn that the mafia may have some extra powers,

What extra powers would those be?

[raider8169]

In that thread he lied anyways. It did seem to cause confusion for both sides. It seemed like a bad thing in that thread as the town did lose. I guess only time will tell how it works for us.

[raider8169]

Oh gee, thanks for not even mentioning me. I posted an opinion on it that it was too unsafe a scum gambit so I believe it for now. Argh, I hate being ignored on forums.

You didnt post any on the whole second page plus your post was the first thing after his claim before I asked the question.

[raider8169]

So it seems everyone can agree he is either a good guy and telling the truth or a bad guy and does not show up on a cop's investigation. Does that sound about right?

[raider8169]

@raider.
He claimed unnightkillable, not investigation immune. A cop, if we have any,

can

investigate him. Whether the cop will want to though.. eh, you get my point.

My reasoning behind that one is that if he is scum, he would raise the chance of him being investigated tonight. If he was investigated and got a guilty result he would lose out on alot. That makes me believe that any investigation would show him as innocent.

Think about it (remind you I believe it but I like to cover all sides)

As scum:

1. He is not night killable
2. Would most likely show up innocent on any investigation (otherwise he would leave a loophole in his plan)
3. Only need to worry about being lynched (the claim could possibly help that)

As town:
1. He is not night killable
2. He would show up innocent
3. Only need to worry about being lynched.

Either way this doesnt help out town as we are just WIFOM all day about either case.

[raider8169]

In any case, our WIFOMing won't determine darkdude's role, but the discussion generated has, as Ting has shown, split the town into three camps. This is good because it gives us something new to talk about.

I dont know if that is a good thing, it gives the scum a way to mingle with everyone else. If someone turns up town or scum in one of the groups then the rest of the group might be assumed to be the same. Dividing up everyone into groups I think would lead to confusion and that would only help scum. This is why I would like everyone to agree one way or the other but I dont think that is going to happen.

[raider8169]

Guess what?

Were you ever going to come back and say what you meant by this?

[raider8169]

@ raider

or a bad guy and does not show up on a cop's investigation.

is a big jump from nk immune. It's a completely different power entirely. Do you think it's plausible that he's

both

a godfather

and

bulletproof? An nk-immune-investigation-proof scum?

IF he is the godfather the nk immune would be because he wouldnt pick himself to nightkill. If we had someone that could night kill then I think that would work. It would make for an interesting role but I think as other people said it just puts him in the spotlight and most scum dont like that.

@ raider.

This is why I would like everyone to agree one way or the other but I dont think that is going to happen.

I don't agree that a scum in one camp points to all the others being scum. How do you think all of us agreeing would help? It locks down our opinion of him, and it takes differences in opinion to generate discussion.

The idea behind it is that we wouldnt be group'd and everyone would come to an agreement for the time being. If darkdude's plan is to ever get going we would have to agree atleast for the time being not to lynch him so he can do this thing. If we are divided on that and people try to lynch him the scum can turn the tides towards their favor. This is why I would like to do it now instead of later. I dont know if this will work but I am open to other ideas.

[raider8169]

Anyway, right now, there's been a lot of somewhat non committal speculation on what the claim might mean. I don't like that, and I'd rather see us trying to figure out what to do now. For now, I think our bulletproof townie should be lynch proof. Leaving him alive D1 shouldn't pose much risk. However, I don't see letting him live til lylo, in case this was a scum gambit. Does anyone agree with that? Either way, what to do now? I mean, if you want to keep discussing if he's the godfather as the deadline slowly approaches, be my guest. I'd rather discuss what the specific reactions meant, as ting appears to have been doing. And I don't mean the general agree/ambivalent/disagree reactions, I mean the specific posts of opinion. Course, if that's already been done, I apologize for missing it :S.

I dont like the idea of saying he will or will not live to see lylo. I think it would be better to not lynch him atleast for today and let him run the show for who to lynch. Then atleast we can base his claim and the lynch together and get an idea. Of course this could be at the expense of the rest of the town. I am at a stuck on how to move on.

[raider8169]

Unvote

I didnt know I still had my joke vote up.

Did we get everyones reaction to the claim yet? I think we are still missing a few people.

[raider8169]

Welcome The Fonz

Why do those role not apply to the vig?

[raider8169]

Welcome The Fonz

Why do those role not apply to the vig?

Direct the cop, the scum can just kill the investigation target. Direct the doc, the scum can kill anyone else.

Direct the vig, the target dies anyway. Now, admittedly, you should only direct vigs to people who are too scummy for scum to want to kill, or who will, drum roll: ONLY DIE IF THEY ARE SCUM!

Thanks

[raider8169]

@raider.

IF he is the godfather the nk immune would be because he wouldnt pick himself to nightkill.

We might have vigs. Or sks. He claimed nk-immunity, not investigation-immunity. I don't get why you're pushing for a darkdude-nk-immune-investigation-proof-scum possibility. That's an absurd absurd amount of power in one role.

You said you believed his claim, so - do you think he's nk-immune, or a godfather? or both?

I already gave the answer to this one but I will say it again.

IF he is scum for this to have any chance of working he would need to be the godfather, that in itself would make him non night killable. I did not take into consideration of a possible SK. Simple way to find out is if someone has a town night kill option use it on him. If he is scum and lying he will be dead otherwise he will stay alive. Unless of course the SK or whoever has a better target.

I was addressing both possibilities so everyone could make an informed choice. My choice is that I believe the claim.

If darkdude's plan is to ever get going we would have to agree atleast for the time being not to lynch him so he can do this thing.

What plan? Do what thing? All he did was claim.

This I need to use a quote for

Having a town with an open role that isn't afraid to speak against scum seems like a much better option. And personally, making elaborate plans isn't my forte, so I just like to make use of my blunt and to-the-point playstyle to scumhunt. By claiming now I have a easier time to go around scumhunting since my intentions are open for all to see.

@raider.

I dont like the idea of saying he will or will not live to see lylo. I think it would be better to not lynch him atleast for today and let him run the show for who to lynch. Then atleast we can base his claim and the lynch together and get an idea. Of course this could be at the expense of the rest of the town. I am at a stuck on how to move on.

We move on by everyone posting

unvote. vote:raider, FOS:darkdude.

Then we see where things go.

I think that is just plan a bad idea. If we are to find out one way or the other we have to decide that as a group now. Either give him what he is asking for (some leeway to pick out scum and back him up when its needed) or we should lynch him now and be done with it. I say lets give him some room to work with, you dont agree I am taking it.[/quote]

[raider8169]

Perhaps darkdude was claiming to get others to claim as well, I don't believe this has been suggested, but while Darkdude clearly has a very powerful role, there could be a counterbalance to his power.

The counter balance is possible, if anything it would be the opposite that he is IE he darkdude is town the counter balance would be scum.

[raider8169]

Ok hear me out. I am trying to understand the idea behind the game.

We are really mafia (still good guys though) and we are trying to find out who are the cops(the bad guys but I will refer to them as scum to keep is simple). The scum instead of killing us will arrest us. From the discription I take it that is a fate just as bad as death. So as darkdude can not be arrested I see that as he can still be killed if we have a night time killer role on our side. Does anyone disagree with this?

[raider8169]

I think it's clearly worth not lynching him today, as tonight a potential vig can test it.

I agree, unless of course he does something completely scummy.

[raider8169]

(don't speculate on that, though)

Perhaps darkdude was claiming to get others to claim as well, I don't believe this has been suggested, but while Darkdude clearly has a very powerful role, there could be a counterbalance to his power.

Are you saying that you think as scum he was hoping another BPV would counterclaim? That would be suicide with very little payoff if that were the case. If that's not what you're saying, then I'm not reading you clearly.

I was just saying that there's probably an equally powerful person on the side opposed to DD, whichever one that may be. And it may not be suicide, a person with a similar role to claim could just as well say that he was town and we'd be faced with yet another variety of WIFOM.

Are you saying your role is the opposite or you know of what could take him out at night time?

[raider8169]

@Kison, you are reading too much into it. I was asking if he thought he had the opposite role. A yes answer would give us a one or the other is scum and that would help town. The other would be what would take him out as in if he is town what scum role could do it, and if he is scum what town could do without having to lynch. You jumped the gun on that one. This seems more like him trying to tell his scum buddies what to do. So as a non-OMGUS

Unvote, Vote Kison

@Ting, read my posts, I answered everything more then once. You are ignoring key parts. If he is the god father then as scum he would not pick himself to be nk'd. That would make him non night killable. As I also said before if we have an SK or town night kill role that might be able to take him out, we just dont know though.

Everyone needs to agree to move on so either he can try and find scum as that was his plan. I dont think town members would disagree on this point. The only thing I was asking the town for was to give him a chance and not to lynch him today based on the claim. At this point either do it or not but based on the claim alone by vote will not go that way.

[raider8169]

Wait, so you're saying if there's a "counter bulletproof" role, then it would make sense that the two roles are in different factions, right?

I think it wasn't a bad plan.

That was the idea.

[raider8169]

Yes, I agree. But what Raider did looks less like fishing and more like plotting a useless trap now that I look back at it.

Honestly I wasnt trying to fish I was just looking for more informaiton to find out what possible roles could be out there. I admite the best case was that we would know either one of them or the other would have been town and one would have been scum. Which one would have been witch would have been our job to figure out.

I have read that each game can make up new roles so even if you have played for years or just starting new things can come up.

[raider8169]

Honestly I wasnt trying to fish I was just looking for more informaiton to find out what possible roles could be out there.

Isn't that the same thing?

I dont think so I concider fishing trying to either what role one person is or who has a certian role. As it seems some people have odd roles, what I was trying to do is figure out what sorts of unique abilities could be out there.

[raider8169]

Is there a point you're trying to make with this back and forth?

Nope, just passing on my thoughts and hoping people will add their 2 cents.

[raider8169]

I would assume only on other factions as the description said pigs. Plus with 12 people I also am guessing there are 3 of them. Anyone else thinking otherwise?

[raider8169]

What is the purpose of guessing setup? We can't assume it is true and base any moves on it, because it is unlikely we can outguess our moderator. Making guesses at how many scum there are doesn't help much does it...?

Could we get prod on Cubsfan?

Unvote

Vote: Chenhsi

Cause I think he's doing more intentional lurking than just making contentless posts. He has posted elsewhere (Other Games section) without replying to anything here.

I was thinking the same thing, and after looking everything up for myself I have come to the same conclusion.

Vote Chenhsi

This should be the third vote and my first mafia bandwagon!

[raider8169]

Can you ask me a question?

I'm not really good at saying stuff when no one is asking me a question.

This is not the same play style you have for other games, so why are you so quiet now?

You actions are quite anti-town and are only helping scum. As it stands I am happy with you being the first lynch.

[raider8169]

People that are bad posters are bad for town. Anyone that is bad for town is worth a lynch. These cases are better left for when we have a deadline and the town can not agree on someone else to lynch. Its not a bad option as there is the possibility he is scum however the reasons are simply because he is anti-town. I am not a fan of these lynches this quickly as there is no deadline so there is still time. My vote was more for pressure and seeing as that did nothing my vote will stay as it is just annoying.

Plus I will take this time to point out rule number [07] LURKING AND NOT POSTING. Please read it he is falling under this case if you ask me. However that is not my job to monitor so I will do my part by keeping my vote where it is.

[raider8169]

imo, the speed of the wagon is bothersome, but as of right now I think Chenhsi is probably the best target for it. Either he's scum or useless town (which isn't a horrible thing to shake off on day 1)

I agree the speed was faster then I thought it would be even though I am number 2 on the votes. I would like to wait a bit before the hammer drops as new things can develop. Does anyone see anyone acting scummier then Chenhsi at the current moment? If so please say who and why.

[raider8169]

I'm not uninterested...I'm just not saying anything... well, not a lot anyway...

Tell you what, pick someone anyone make a case against them and vote them. Only then will I unvote.

[raider8169]

All right, currently trying to make a case against some one, give me some time please?

How much more time do you need?

[raider8169]

Ugh...I have to save it. I'm mostly through page 6, but I have to make dinner, clean up dishes, sing in choir, and be back around 8:00 PM EST. I'm really sorry about this, but I think it will be worth it to see a fresh in depth look on things.

Im looking forward to reading it.

[raider8169]

That's not how it read to me. Sounded to me like: Chenhsi is a sad choice, only marginally better than no-lynch. Which is a fair opinion. Personally I would much prefer lynching a worse than useless townie over no lynch. I find lurking extremely anti-town.

It seems we have alot of anti-town type people in this game. I could see the lynch of one based of that and just hoping they are also scum but not when we have alot of lurking going on.

[raider8169]

ALRIGHT! I finished the summary! Feelings to follow. (this part takes a short time)

Wow, I think thats a really good summary, dont like that you think I could be scum however with me standing behind DD I can see why. Just to explain that a little I just stand behind him because I want to give him a chance.

[raider8169]

It's really weak on you. And that wasn't the summary, that was the feelings. I kept the summary to myself unless people REALLY want to read an incredibly long post that tells you everything you already know. And as I said, I only lean slight scum on you for now, and feel a lot is contingent on the result of a vig test of DD if there is a vig.

I agree about the Vig, but I think that would kill him as it sounded like he could only not get arrested. Only time will tell.

[raider8169]

I am happy with the replacement however I would like to see a real post before removing my vote.

[raider8169]

I'd probably vote you if I had evidence.

I dont know about you but if I had evidence on anyone I would vote them.

[raider8169]

I dont know about you but if I had evidence on anyone I would vote them.

That's why I said IF I had evidence. All I have are REALLY bad vibes from Kison, and it's possibly just OMGUS. But I feel really uneasy about Kison, and I have no idea WHY! I can't vote him based on that.

Sure you can, only it may not have the desired affects you wanted.

[raider8169]

Darkdude's claim would already have made any role with a killing ability (eg. vig) wary about targetting him. Raider's addition would have made any role with an investigative ability wary of targetting darkdude too.

Its called a godfather, or he is town both will show up innocent. The general thought is if we have a vig test is out otherwise for the time being just move on.

We have said all this before and I dont see you moving on but there it is again.

[raider8169]

I think the reasoning behind my vote no longer applies. So I will go ahead and

unvote

.

This late in the first day we have alot of scattered votes. Not sure if that is a good or bad thing just an observation.

[raider8169]

I just reread quite a bit and came up with this conclusion.

Vote: Ennui2778

. I thought about it when Cass voted but didnt want to chime in when I was part of another bandwagon. If someone wants my case just read all the posts Ennui made, dont worry it wont take long.

[raider8169]

Could be a complete coincidence, but it read very off to me..

No one wanted to talk about the game setup as it turns us trying to go against the mod and that is just bad. As things move forward we will find out more but until then I think everyone just wanted to move on to something else.

[raider8169]

I find it odd that you see second on your list. I am looking forward to seeing your case but something tells me that will not happen until your vote changes to me.

[raider8169]

Please tell me you didnt just quote that from your role?

[raider8169]

It sounds quoted and I take that as more/less true. The ability doesn't sound like a scum tactic so I will

Unvote

.

[raider8169]

How does it make DD look a little worse? I atleast understand a little more now and see how he could think he is vig proof.

[raider8169]

How does it make DD look a little worse? I atleast understand a little more now and see how he could think he is vig proof.

2 bulletproofs? Even one who only gets one night? It's beginning to look sketchy. While it's possible...I don't like it.

Why, the only people who shouldnt like it are the scum?

[raider8169]

I want to see what the mod does at this point, but I do believe the claim. I've never had a player seemingly quote a mod PM before, does is it always result in a modkill? If there's a modkill does the mod always/never give a full coroner report?

Why do you believe the claim? What do you think about my recent trifecta of posts on the topic?

Im in the same boat so I will answer atleast for me. I do believe his claim however his goal could be different. WATCHER OR TRACKER sounds like a role for a townie though. I dont see what scum would do with that.

[raider8169]

Well, I think Ennui is scum. I believe his claim, I also believe he left out the part where it said he's a cop who wants to get all of this mafia crew arrested (or whatever the scum pm says). The 'standard issue vest' thing is pretty convincing. He's a pig. If he isn't mod-killed, I'm all for lynching him.

Ohh, good call Cass, standard issue sounds like something that a cop would get.

As far as scum having the tracker thing, I guess its possible. I never thought of it like.

Vote Ennui

[raider8169]

@ Raider:

Actually, remember I said how my role leads me to believe there are scum power roles? This would be the case.

I do remember that but I was thinking more like scum had maybe 2 kills a night or something more scummy like.

[raider8169]

But I don't understand the urgency? Seems like he's either getting mod killed or lynched at this point anyway, so wouldn't it be better to see if he's modkilled and then get a chance at a second lynch before any NK's?

For balance reasons, it SHOULD. Otherwise, the game gets all screwed up. At least, my personal opinion.

As before the claim he had like 5 votes I assume it will end the day however it doesn't matter until the mod chimes in. This is still in the control of us to figure out if we want the lynch or not. Lets make the mods life a little easier and just lynch the guy. I would rather not end the day on anything other then a lynch as then we dont have the bandwagon to go off from for the next day.

[raider8169]

I would prefer lynching FL and letting the mod kill of Ennui, two scum D1 would be great.

Too bad you'd only be getting one, if any, assuming Ennui is scum. Your case is stupid, and you haven't even presented it yet.

I dont see Ennui flipping town right now, especially since he quoted his PM so its not a misinterpretation regarding immunity.

A case is coming but given our dealine is basically "whenever the mod checks in" throwing out a piece of it is something I am comfortable with for now. I should have cases on you and raider up later tonight at the latest

I am looking forward to seeing your case on me.

[raider8169]

Ok, everyone knows he is now scum. I guess all that remains is whether or not this will count as the lynch. He did say someone on the bandwagon is also scum.

[raider8169]

So,

Unvote Ennui, Vote DarkDude

I dont like this at all. We know Ennui is scum so you remove your vote? If the mod kills Ennui that is one thing but we do not know what will happen and the only thing currently in our control is to lynch a 100% confirmed scum.

[raider8169]

I dont like this at all. We know Ennui is scum so you remove your vote? If the mod kills Ennui that is one thing but we do not know what will happen and the only thing currently in our control is to lynch a 100% confirmed scum.

DUDE! ENNUI JUST QUOTED HIS WHOLE FUCKING ROLE PM! If cicero DOESN'T modkill him after that, I'm tempted to be replaced, since the rules aren't being enforced like they should. I want to see punishment for that one. Anyway, if he isn't modkilled, of course I'll be on the ennui lynch. It's just that, there's no reason not to get started on our next suspects since Ennui appears to be a dead man walking.

I know you guys say he will be mod killed but I dont like to think that will happen. For someone to get mod killed it just sucks for the mod. I would rather make this thing go as the mod wanted it to and lets lynch him not only for being scum but for ruining all the hard work that went it to making this game.

By no means does that mean that we shouldnt be looking out for his partner.

[raider8169]

ARGH! You all made me bored again! I was having fun defending .

For a weekend this game is really moving along.

I am going to stick with my vote as that is who I want lynched/mod killed it doesnt matter, they need to be gone from the game. If we dont go into night that would be cool but for the game to have the flow it was meant to I dont see any other choice.

[raider8169]

Wow and I thought Ting was scum after what he did to me. At this point it seems our best bet is to try to find the partner to stop atleast one of the 2 arrests.

People on the bandwagon

Goatrevolt
darkdude
Kison
raider8169
Cubsfanforever
Llmafluff (arrested)
Matin

My money is on

Vote Cubsfanforever

[raider8169]

Bulletproof isn't such an odd or unique role. This could be a slip, meaning he's one of the cops and has some interesting abilitites, just like Ennui had.

Right now, he's voting cubsfan (no reason given).

Bulletproof isnt something I have been in a game with before as this is my first theme type game so all these roles are new to me.

As far a voting cubsfan, I figured I didnt need a case.

Everyone knows the Ennui said his partner was bussing him so that means he was voting for him. Out of those that were on the bandwagon I picked the one I thought he was refering too. Everything just seemed to fit with cubsfan so that is why I am voting him.

[raider8169]

I count at least 3 posts fingering me as scum. Now, I could hammer cubs and see if people are gonna push my case the next day, or we could try to resolve the idea that I'm scum now. I'm not, and I want to get people off my case so that we can concentrate on finding scum. So, I want to see if my accusers want to inquisit me now, or if they want to wait til we've seen cubs flip.

If people are willing to vote cubs then I dont see why we should wait, I however do not have a case against you so my say doesnt really matter.

[raider8169]

Because, you see, if I hammer now, it'll seem like I'm running away from the cases people have for me. I'd rather not toxify the next day that way, instead letting my accusers choose when to accost me.

Maybe but unless someone thinks you are Ennui's partner you will not be the lynch or even the chance of the lynch for today.

[raider8169]

Your roleclaim does nothing to help you, there's nothing to prevent a scum from claiming that.

Unless you wish to be the second to copy and paste your role.

[raider8169]

Wow, you guys posted a whole crap load the last couple of days. I really though CF was Ennui's partner. Though after the lynch I relized it was DD. Too little too late. For my night actions I checked out Ting and then Cass. Neither one worked out for me. Plus for those that didnt catch on I knew that there was a GF type roll but I didnt want to give myself away.

Cicero can you post everyone's roles?

[raider8169]

Wow I didnt even think of their being 2 godfather type roles. I would have had to guess goat to investigate otherwise I would have never got a result.

[raider8169]

The results I claimed were almost the truth.

I did track Ting because I thought he fit the profile of scum or a power role.

Night 2 I actually watched Darkdude to find the vig. I just claimed a track on forbiddan instead, because watching DD was kind of an anti-town way to use my role.

We killed LlamaFluff because he had Matin in his top 2 suspects and is a good player. We killed Kison because he was on the Ennui bandwagon, and so we didn't think that Darkdude would shoot him, and we wanted to avoid doubling up on kills.

I was wondering if you were call me out as scum forbiddan for killing Llama/Kison, who were both spies players.

I think the idea behind the game was for the cops to arrest each other. Seems like the only way we really would have had a chance.

[raider8169]

Between the Bulletproof vests, the roleblocker, and the doctor I expected a lot of kills to be blocked. That happened sometimes but I must say scum killed vanilla townies with astonishing precision.

I would have liked to see more kills get blocked so the game lasted a little longer. So this set-up seems to be balanced only the cops just kept picking the right people. Lucky SOBs!