Mafia 85 - Murder at the Bus Stop (game over)

[farside22]

/confirm

[farside22]

vote: Xtoxm

[farside22]

vote Farside22

I'd like to know why you voted Xtomx in your first in game post here. The mod has clearly stated that he is V/LA. What were you going to achieve by voting for a player who isn't here?

It's just a random vote.

[farside22]

But votes only bring pressure if they couldf lead to a lynch.

If a few people put a vote on you, you feel under pressure, regardless of whether they intend to lynch you or not. Trust me, you don't have to have intent to lynch to pressurise people.

Yeah, you do. It's like the gold standard used to work. You may not be thinking "oh no, I have three votes on me, that's x away from a lynch" in the same way that under the gold standard you wouldn't say to the shopkeeper each time you bought an apple that the money you were paying him was backed up by gold, but nevertheless, both things are true.

This isn't true if xtoxm is on V/LA for long.

unvote:
vote: Wall-e

No matter the alignment you always seem scummy.

[farside22]

I thought about what was being talked about and even though it is the random vote stage, votes are meant for reaction so my vote on xtoxm was useless. So I decided to unvote and vote for the Wall-E as a joke vote because if you read his games he has a tendency of being lynched D1 or D2 and so far is town every game. He just comes off scummy.

[farside22]

unvote, vote: farside22

for giving into Sir T.

Also armlx vs. Sir T looks townie v. townie at the moment. Just wanted to say this before it blows up into a full-blown thing and someone gets lynched.

I didn't give in to Sir T. I read what was said about what voting and even random voting should have a purpose. I usually don't think about random voting meaning anything. But voting for someone even as a random vote who is on V/LA means nothing. Might as well voted for myself.

[farside22]

Vote alabaska

Why?

BlakAdder: Did you read the talks between Armlx and Sir T. Did you not think Sir T explained himself?

[farside22]

Empking post 46 - I know it's a random vote but what a weird thing to say.

"Vote: Azuma

He's a townsperson."

Post 103: Does knowing that at deadline which is 14 days the person with the most votes is lynched whether we come to a consense make people more nervous to post with a threat of voting for them if they don't post more soon?

RestFermenta post 47 just copies empking's comment. Did I miss this being a new tread?

Moratorium Post 72: For someone who has a reason to vote it seems a little reservse reason to vote. Ah never mind post 122 is more clear. I retract my comment.

Manu - post 80: I disagree with this. Even if someone knows they are being pressured to talk. If they are town then they should talk and stop lurkering. Mafia may speak too knowing that at deadline if they aren't careful they will be lynched.

Cream Post 99: Agreed. Well this should be put with agreed if they want to play to win. Some people are lazy when it comes to posting and playing.

Wall-E post 118, Scum searching is better then lurker lynching. One is more informative then the other.

Megatheory: Post 119 "

A) what akes Wall-E scummy now?

B) How can you be sure he is scum if you always find him scummy?

Just in case you missed my answer:

So I decided to unvote and vote for the Wall-E as a joke vote because if you read his games he has a tendency of being lynched D1 or D2 and so far is town every game. He just comes off scummy.

Surye: Post 163. I got that Sir T was being sarcastic. How did everything else he say deserve a vote with one sarcastic comment?


With all the lurker talks I think seeing the rules about deadline votes might clear people from lurking if they do feel the need to lurk and don't respond to pressure.

-This game has deadlines of ~14 days, with a possible extension of 72 hours (if there are claims, heavy discussion, or recent replacements for example). At deadline, the person with the most votes will be lynched. In case of a tie, I will “go back in time” until the point before there was a tie, to determine who will be lynched.

I hope that by people realizing that a threat of lurking and possible votes will keep lurking null and void at this point. 14 days may seem a lot of time to post something, but it's not if your name is on the chopping block.

Now with that said and reading thru things I just dont' get the Sir T vote. I have no issue with someone asking questions even about a random vote. Also I saw his last vote as sarcastic with a point about empking's comment. Really if you think people should be voting how about pointing out people you think are scummy.

Fos: Empking

So far out of everyone Surye's vote on Sir T looks more like a BW vote then anything else. I don't see why he voted on Sir T as a reason to vote.

unvote:
vote: Surye

[farside22]

Moratorium: What exactly was the point of that post? Are you keeping track of votes, commenting on people in the game? What did it tell you about each player and who in that did you find the scummies?

[farside22]

Moratorium: What exactly was the point of that post? Are you keeping track of votes, commenting on people in the game? What did it tell you about each player and who in that did you find the scummies?

The point of that post was to appear as if he were actually contributing something to the game.

Geez thanks for your help? Didn't think of that myself.
I was trying to get more out of him because I dislike people who do that.

[farside22]

Moratorium: What exactly was the point of that post? Are you keeping track of votes, commenting on people in the game? What did it tell you about each player and who in that did you find the scummies?

The point of that post was to appear as if he were actually contributing something to the game.

I strongly consider a PBPA to be participation. He's not obligated to share his thoughts, but simply showing that he's read the thread increases his esteem in my eyes. What more do you want? Ask him directly if there's more you'd like from him.

Anyone can write a PBP without doing anything else. It doesn't take much to do. But stating your views on people and making a case takes more because typically scum have try not to buss their scum partners and will make weak cases on others to makes themselves look good.

[farside22]

When people post in a mafia game, I take it for granted that they have read the thread unless they specifically mention otherwise. There is no need for a post like that unless you are trying to make some point about a certain player's posts.

If I wanted to make a point about a certain player's posts, I'd make that point. Obfuscation is pro-scum, Clarification is pro-town.

I was trying to get more out of him because I dislike people who do that.

Please explain, are you stating that you believe posting a PBP is a net negative?

Anyone can do a PBP and add nothing to it. It's a post with no susbstance. Anyone can do a PBP without effort, but to actually make a point on people who you find scummy is harder for scum to do then town (typically).

[farside22]

I'm surprised farside22 voted me on that actually. It was an early game vote, that didn't last long, and generated some discussion. There was no bandwagonning at all. I'm kinda hoping she has a better point then this.

I did that long post before you unvote. Your explaination of your unvote didn't really impress me.

I'm liking SirT's responses, and I can see his point. I wish he had just been more clear, and avoided this all. His vote was really misleading.

Unvote

Now you are not voting anyone. Now I saw your case on MT. I don't think anyone really but me said anything about your vote. (I could be wrong) but I didn't see a discussion on it. The problem is you voted for him based on his play style and unvoted him because why exactly? The reason above doesn't tell me much. My issue is when I see people vote without much following a BW and unvote without much else said it ding's my scumdar which is why at this time I have not unvoted.

[farside22]

The problem is you voted for him based on his play style and unvoted him because why exactly?

He unvoted for the reasons he posted when he unvoted…

I think he is being vague. I don't like vague.

[farside22]

The problem is you voted for him based on his play style and unvoted him because why exactly?

He unvoted for the reasons he posted when he unvoted*

I think he is being vague. I don't like vague.

You're clouding the issue. You're isolating my unvote post, and not looking at my discussion of how his meta makes the playstyle a null tell. When I voted, these things had not come into light. I may have been vague in my unvote post (I don't think so), but I continued to explain why Sir T didn't deserve a vote for several other posts.

I saw where you pointed out the links that were being brought up and stated that it is a null tell. Also I disagree with what you said here:

Votes often lack an explaination to get and analize a reaction. More risky to the voter, because of the things you're saying, but can be quite useful.

People don't react to votes. They react to what the vote represents and what is said in that vote. It's easy for anyone to just vote then what kind of game would we have if people just voted and did nothing else?

[farside22]

Would you mind showing (by way of quotes) that I was a gainst voting for pressure.

You weren't, my mistake, I'll probably get a lot of this type of complaint for trying to get this done too quickly.

Thinking this over, having a player who is willing to put all this crap together probably did nothing but make me a big NK target for wanting to emphasize people's trends.

Just to make a point on PBP. I know players who are scum that have done a PBP in the past just to look more town. I know scum and town who are able to do it with analysis, however scum have a trickier time with this. Doing a PBP is just a way of saying hey look I'm contributing I'm not scum while really not scum hunting.

[farside22]

Shanba: The difference between what you did and Sir T did was that Sir T said he saw something in Survy's post and would explain if others didn't see it. You are just being silly.

[farside22]

The difference between what you did and Sir T did was that Sir T said he saw something in Survy's post

right...

and would explain if others didn't see it.

Where? Not that he might not agree to this, but he didn't say that.

unvote
vote Surye

I hope atleast a few people see what I see.

Ah for some reason I thought he was going to explain when he states the last line.

[farside22]

Vote: Slicey

You're just attacking a random target, almost doing the same thing you claimed of him. Need proof? Look at Emp's posts in isolation and show me ONE place he's pushing for a lynch.

If you voted without a case, that would be one thing, but you had specific behaviors you voted for which are not even CLOSE to reality.

This is true. Also the post were Armlx ask why he hasn't voted. Slicey explains why then a post later post and votes for Empking. Just feels like someone caving to pressure.

unvote:
vote: Slicey

[farside22]

Agreed. I'm for option A.

It's only a few more days. What harm does some discussion do for us anyways?

[farside22]

Sorry I fell behind. Need to catch up.

[farside22]

Read the pages I feel behind. A couple of questions.

First Xtoxm make a short post about who he find suspicious and then votes Shaba. With no reason I saw. Then I see this:

Jebus:

@Xotxm: I partially agree with the Shanba vote, though it'll depend how Slicey turns up as.

What exactly do you agree with here and why?
alaska:

Xtoxm, if it helps, I agree with you that Shanba is scum.

Same question why? I never saw xtoxm put a case forward. He just calls it a feeling and two people say yeah I see Shanba scummy too with no explination.
Heck I'm going with Shanba on this one. Between Alaska comment and Jebus lack of comments and agreement I'm findding him a bit more scummy in this case.

unvote:
vote: Jebus

[farside22]

And, what about the games you have been in?

I could go back and compile a list later today, but I honestly only remember 1 or 2 times ever letting someone who claimed townie during a wagon live D1 and it was due to theme game flavor or other confirming circumstances, and the stats on lynches sound about the same as I saw looking back, maybe a bit better on both parts (scum lynch given townie claim D1 and scum lynch D1) due to the fact I have played a lot of minis and themes where D1 scum lynch is easier.

It really looks like farside is reaching for a reason to hop off the wagon, and Shanba is confusing me.

Are you saying Jebus agreement with xtoxm based on nothing is reasonable?
Also I don't have a problem with Slicey lynch, but Jebus needs better response then she has been giving.

[farside22]

Are you saying Jebus agreement with xtoxm based on nothing is reasonable?

Its certainly not unreasonable to the point I would expect it to weight over the reasons you were voting Slicey. Why do you think it is scummier?

There both scummy. This is the last day to talk about things is there anything wrong with still scum hunting? Should we just end the day without questioning others we find scummy?
Sir T. 2 votes put onto another player and you think the lynch of slicey wasn't happening? I see the rules state that by deadline who ever has the highest vote will be lynched. If more people came in and started switching votes more rapidly I would understand the concern I don't see that happening at the moment.

[farside22]

EBWODP: You did that specificially by vote swapping there. The comment about Jebus was warranted.

Jebus has 2 days in which to discuss her actions. Slicey has had 5 days now and hasn't stated a word. What do we gain once Slicey is lynched if we don't discuss others who we find scummy? What does an FOS do for Jebus? Will she respond, does she feel worried? Will she lurk till the end of day? I think a vote will bring her out faster. I see nothing wrong with talking to others and finding scum because there is always more then one scum in a game.

[farside22]

The intent of a vote can be made without losing the functionality of it on Slicey.

With 9 votes on Slicey and 2 days to go and no one close to a lynch do you not agree that Slicey will still be lynched D1?

[farside22]

Not when you have to search the thread for the posts of the said person... It wasn't exactly on this page.

Under the quick reply box, there's a "Display posts from previous" ____ "by" ______ search function. Draws up all of Jebus's posts in 5 seconds.

Yeah except I was behind 2 pages and wanted to read everything that was said I missed. Jebus comment along with Alaska comment and nothing to back it up was terrible.
Also I see no big vote change happening so far Armlx you still concerned at this point? Why?

[farside22]

The potential for there to be one out of nowhere without real time to properly consider the wagons shouldn't have even existed in the first place.

What?

Exactly. I think he's saying slicey should have been lynched at this point. I just don't see the tides turning and I dont' get Armlx issue at all.

[farside22]

What, is that meant as some kind of stab at me? Because I never voted Slicey.

And anyone who left looks better in my eyes. Slicey was a poor lynch.

Anyone who dared question anyone beside Slicey is scummy don't you know. Oh yeah don't forget that fast BW that could have stopped the Slicey lynch as Armlx stated.

vote: Jebus

Still think what I was saying yesterday applies today.

[farside22]

What, is that meant as some kind of stab at me? Because I never voted Slicey.

And anyone who left looks better in my eyes. Slicey was a poor lynch.

No. What he means is that the mafia KNOW who is scum and who is town, and rather than lynch a townie and garner suspicion, some scum may have jumped off Slicey at the last second.

Or the mafia stayed on there so they wouldn't look suspcious. Looking at people and what they said versus day 1 votes wins when scum hunting.

@Xtoxm: Why RBT?

[farside22]

I still want Jebus to answer what he saw in xtoxm when xtxom talked about Shanba being scummy.

[farside22]

Jumping off the wagon at the end, when you know it will result in a lynch regardlessly is a move for appearences only. The only people who need to worry about such things are scum. I'm not saying everyone who jumped off were scum, but that it is a likely place to look.

For everyone 1 game you show me were scum jumped off a wagon near the end of the day I will show you 10 games where scum stayed on a wagon because it's the best place to hide.

Better yet looking at yesterday and seeing what people said and why they did or didn't do something is the best in finding scum.

[farside22]

Jumping off the wagon at the end, when you know it will result in a lynch regardlessly is a move for appearences only. The only people who need to worry about such things are scum. I'm not saying everyone who jumped off were scum, but that it is a likely place to look.

For everyone 1 game you show me were scum jumped off a wagon near the end of the day I will show you 10 games where scum stayed on a wagon because it's the best place to hide.
.

That's a bad argument. Just because not all scum do something doesn't make it any less of a tell.

He's arguing that those who jumped the vote where scum. I stating that scum are just as likely to stay on the BW. It's a null tell.

[farside22]

Unvote

I think the Surye cases suck.

Why?

[farside22]

I feel like xtoxm has been all over the place with little to no explanation. I get more glib remarks or half answers or jokes from him so far then actual real case.

[farside22]

Yes xtoxm you have been all over the place. You joke voted. No big deal to me. But when you get back you state this:

Fos Jebus
Fos Armlx
Vote Shanba

No reason's why. Jebus and Alaska both say oh I see shanba scum still with no reason. Next day you vote RBT (no reason)
State the following about Shanba

My suspicions of Shanba have waned, for the moment.

Okay what was your orginal suspicion because I haven't seen it.
Then we now have Surye.

Wasn't expecting that from Surye. Perhaps his wagon has more potential than I originally thought.
Unvote Vote Surye

So no you haven't been clear in the least on where you stand or why.

[farside22]

As much as I don't care for xtoxm's lack of saying anything really useful when it comes to his votes I don't feel like he is scum.
xtoxm: Why do you no longer feel Jebus scum? Why do you still have a vote on surye if you don't think he is scum?

[farside22]

There are too many people absent from this game, and I don't feel like attacking anyone who's active right now.

Vote K7

Is this serious?

Why the habitual lurker over the person who wanted lurker lynches then started lurking, while making no real stances in the game.

I didn't even know K-7 was playing this game. Why him out of the 4 other lurkers in the game?

Mod edit
Votecount:
Surye (4): springlullaby, Riceballtail, Muerrto, Wall-E
Cream147 (3): Empking, BlakAdder, armlx
Jebus (2): farside22, Shanba
killa seven (1): Xtoxm

Not voting (12): Megatheory, Azuma, RestFermata, Gremwell, Alabaska J, Cream147, Jebus, Slepz, killa seven, Zazier, al4xz, Surye

With 22 alive it's 12 to lynch.

[farside22]

Because he always lurks to endgame and everyone refuses to lynch him, because "lynching lurkers is bad", and it's ridiculous.

meh he lurks as town. He lurks as scum. Depending on what he says I sometimes can sense when he is scum or town.

[farside22]

Killa Seven, Slepz, Azuma and Megatheory have been prodded.

Deadline: October 22, Noon GMT

A deadline and on my b-day. I get a present early.

[farside22]

I feel that a lynch of a lurker is better odds to hit scum then anyone I see playing actively right now, but, I really hate trying to find the best lurker to vote as there is, by nature, little to analyze.

Cream's anti-lurk stance followed by his lurking is very odd. K7 hardly plays in any game. Megatheory WAS active, and now is not when the conversation flaired up. Slepz and Azuma, I've got no idea.

Given that, Cream or MT seem like the best course of action at this point. Will consider which gets my vote.

Actually that is true about MT. I wonder if he is playing else where or just disappeared.
(goes to check)

[farside22]

MT should be replaced if he isn't posting anywhere. Cream has been in games I've played with his so far not very helpful. The whole back and forth with survy, well I just don't see it as a big case. Lot of lurking in this game. Doesn't really help.

[farside22]

al4xz.. when the fuck did i say i only wanted to lynch active players? X was saying he only wnated to lynch lurkers and i was saying that why is he not looking at actove people im sure they are scummy also.

Dont twist my words around.

Quit swearing, you make me want to start a fight with you...

You said you wanted to lynch active scummy people. In short, ACTIVE people. I'm not twisting your words, merely stating them in a different way. I'm not purposely trying to make you look scummy, I'm just too lazy to pick my ass up and check the exact wording.

And now YOUR twisting words. Xtox said he wanted to lynch ONE lurker, specifically, you. And why can't we lynch lurkers who seem to overreact over small things? And what are your opinions? YOu only respond when people attack you. Personally, you're quite scummy in my opinion.

Seeing as my vote is on no one at the moment and I don't exactly see the Jebus situation, I don't agree with the Surye lynch, and I believe the Cream lynch is no longer a strong case, I

Vote: K7

I think K-7 is wrong and al4xz is right on this case. I don't see anyone agree that Jebus needs to be looked at further, but k7's attitude in this case is coming across as anti town. Usually when called out he isn't toxic as town I've noticed.

unvote:
vote: K-7

[farside22]

BTW, farside, do you have specific game examples? I know the one I am thinking of is Desperate Mafia (Mafia 76 I think, Cephrir mod) where he was town.

Shaft.ed larget game he was town. Which was Monty Python game. He was very reasonable even as a lurker when he started getting asked about his lurkering. Do you need the link?
Also he was scum in my mini game where he just lurked and when questioned just lurked more, so his toxic comment is very surprising to me.

[farside22]

BTW, farside, do you have specific game examples? I know the one I am thinking of is Desperate Mafia (Mafia 76 I think, Cephrir mod) where he was town.

Shaft.ed larget game he was town. Which was Monty Python game. He was very reasonable even as a lurker when he started getting asked about his lurkering. Do you need the link?
Also he was scum in my mini game where he just lurked and when questioned just lurked more, so his toxic comment is very surprising to me.

because i think his reasoning is false, also i did get emotional when they accused me of bussing scum the whole game(monty python) or did you forget that?

I don't see any time you blew up at anyone in that game. You talked rationale about what you did and why.

[farside22]

He also got pretty wonky in Random 3.

Was he town or scum in that game.

al4xz: I have never seen K7 ever make a case.

[farside22]

Mod edit
Votecount:
killa seven (5): Xtoxm, al4xz, farside22, Surye, armlx
Surye (3): springlullaby, Riceballtail, Muerrto
Cream147 (2): Empking, BlakAdder
Jebus (1): Shanba
Xtoxm (1): Alabaska J
armlx (1): Wall-E

Not voting (9): Megatheory, Azuma, RestFermata, Gremwell, Cream147, Slepz, killa seven, Zazier, Jebus

With 22 alive it's 12 to lynch.

He also got pretty wonky in Random 3.

Was he town or scum in that game.

al4xz: I have never seen K7 ever make a case.

oh i have made cases.. quite effective ones. mainly pbpa.

RLY?

I wait with baited breathe for one.

[farside22]

killa seven: Is that all you've got? I told you a small PBPA of your top scumspect would get my vote off you. Are you going to take that deal?

Still waiting with baited breathe.

[farside22]

Why are you OK to lynch K7.

I won't be voting K7, Meta is fine to support a case but it shouldn't be the entire case.

Who do you have a case on?

[farside22]

I don't see how that's revelant.

The fact that you are complaining about the case on K7, but you don't have any one you suspect is noted.

[farside22]

What I suspect Cream.

Ii never said I didn't suspect Cream but I have said multiple times that I suspect cream.

Last vote count I dont' see you voting him and what is your case against him exactly?

[farside22]

Mod edit
Votecount:
killa seven (5): Xtoxm, al4xz, farside22, Surye, armlx
Surye (3): springlullaby, Riceballtail, Muerrto
Cream147 (2): Empking, BlakAdder
Jebus (1): Shanba
Xtoxm (1): Alabaska J
armlx (1): Wall-E

Not voting (9): Megatheory, Azuma, RestFermata, Gremwell, Cream147, Slepz, killa seven, Zazier, Jebus

With 22 alive it's 12 to lynch.

.

How interesting. You're resorting to BS.

Cream hasn't posted anything major and what (s)he did post was IMO scummy.

Ah. I was looking at the wrong name. I don't see how Cream's comments and K7's comment look any more pro town. At least Cream is correct as for V/LA.

[farside22]

Well back to my orignal suspect from yesterday.

vote: Jebus

[farside22]

I don't see it as a slip from Wall-E. I think just too many games at one time

[farside22]

I don't see it as a slip from Wall-E. I think just too many games at one time

In what possible game could he be playing where lynching a claimed doctor for information would be acceptable?

It's not. Maybe he is scum in that other game.
I'm just guessing. But reading through it wasn't a slip because K-7 didn't claim. So I don't get the point.

[farside22]

Sorry got busy with a few things. I will be catching up in this game today.

[farside22]

I'm reading through the game because I'm a bit lost, but I'm doing this player by player. First up is
al4xz - Talks about pressuring or lynching lurkers. I don't care for this post at all:

Not neccessarily. If they are going like, "omgz0rz that guy is lurking let's kill him" and crap like that, then they're sure gonna start getting nervous. Then we throw a few more votes on him (essentially, we start the wagon) and he's going whack yellin "I was on vacation!" Then we pressure him some more until we can determine scum or innocent, then we either kill him or let him go. That's what I say. Of course, that will require quite a bit of teamwork from everyone else.

Why would you think that Moratium didn't seem scummy to you day 1
What is the difference between pressureing lurkers and what Emp was doing when he was taking about BW?
Oh look at this crap vote:

Ugh! I made a long post concerning Slicey and it got CPU Quotaed. =.=

OK, who cares. Damn the post.

Vote: Slicey for the reasons everyone has stated. I'm not gonna go type that up again. =.=

Why did all you care about just finishing the day and not scum hunting:

That's a basic summary of my post. Not really that long - content wise anyway, but all I really cared about was finishing up the day so we can move on

Doesn't want to talk about other possible scum suspects on day 1.
Sticks up for Jebus.
Why an FOS for xtoxm and not a vote?
Oh wait next post has a vote for him. Why an FOS then vote?
After that yells at K-7 and argues with xtoxm. Now is arguing about whether Wall-E slipped or didnt'.
Overall I get a few bumbs along the way with al4. Somethings come across badly especially day 1. Day 2 he seems a bit all over the place. Part of me can't tell if this is newb error or scum error in some ways.

[farside22]

Order of Night actions:
The action on top is resolved first. If there are multiple actions of 1 type, the action I receive first will be resolved first, but all actions of that type will be resolved (so a vig and a goon killing each other will both die, for example).
1) passive abilities
2) blocking
3) target-changing
4) protecting
5) killing
6) alignment-changing
7) investigating/tracking/watching etc.
Questions about this can be asked in thread or via pm.

Votes off him nubs.

Every other game I have been in ever has had cop results show up even if the target dies.

I've been in games where cops don't get results on them if they die.

Plus, Alex has looked pro-town all game.

I've seen mods to both. Some give results of a dead player and some don't depends on the mod. I would really have to look to see which mods have done it this way, but I won't have time till tomorrow and tomorrow is deadline.

[farside22]

That settles it with me. I believe Armlx over al4 any day.

unvote:
vote: al4xz

[farside22]

That's fine. I think either way with al4's attempt at fake claiming and your guilty on Cream we will have a scum lynch today. I endorse a vig hit on al4 or cream which ever is not lynched.

unvote:
vote: Cream

[farside22]

Vote: Wall-E

Raise your hand if you didn't see this vote coming.



Now put your hand down, you're an idiot.

Is this because of al4 defending Wall-E

[farside22]

I think Wall-E is worth pressuring. Al4 seemed like a newbie (could be wrong need to check date) but despite that I don't know too many scum defending town unless they are more experienced or the reason seems sound to defend against. Neither is the case here.

vote: Wall-E

Mod edit
Votecount:
Wall-E (2): kuribo, farside22
Xtoxm (1): armlx
armlx (1): Xtoxm

Not voting (11): Gremwell, Slepz, Zazier, RestFermata, ThAdmiral, springlullaby, Surye, Wall-E, BlakAdder, Jebus, Riceballtail

With 15 alive it's 8 to lynch.

[farside22]

Armlx: Lets pressue xtoxm, he acted suspicious with a known scum.
Xtoxm: OMGUS, I semi-claimed, and you're trying to kill me! Even though you full claimed, and had 2 confimed scum results, you must be scum! Lets lynch the claimed power role for trying to lynch a semi-claimed power role!


That's how I saw it. More Xtoxm votes.

Agreed. Xtoxm is being rediculous.

unvote:
vote: xtoxm

[farside22]

xtoxm is now at L-2

[farside22]

Meh, you'll just lynch me anyway, and there's no point telling scum my role.

Either lynch me, or leave me alone.

Umm where on earth do you think claiming will get you lynched in your head? Obviously you have no claim and just are complaining now.

[farside22]

Why do you think there is a 3rd bus driver?

[farside22]

I was never on Slicey's wagon thank you very much. Also I thought K-7's attitude was suspicious. Armlx was the only one to ask more about my thoughts on and many others followed.

Votecount:
Slicey (10): Wall-E, armlx, Surye, Riceballtail, Moratorium, Empking, BlakAdder, Alabaska J, al4xz, RestFermata
Jebus (3): Shanba, farside22, Xtoxm
Surye (2): Demon Pineapple, Sir Tornado
Empking (1): Slicey
Wall-E (1): Mana_Ku
farside22 (1): martin413
Xtoxm (1): killa seven

Not voting (6): Azuma, Cream147, Slepz, ace1217, Megatheory, Jebus

With 25 alive it's 13 to lynch. At deadline, the one with the most votes is lynched.

The town gathers near the bus stop, and they decide to lynch one person every day. As the day goes by, discussion leads to the belief that Slicey is a murderer, and that he should be lynched. Not everyone agrees, but when the sun starts to set they think it is time to lynch someone, and almost half of the town thought Slicey was the best choice.

After the town lynched Slicey, they searched his clothes for anything suspicious, but it appears Slicey was nothing more than a regular Townie.

Slicey, Townie, lynched Day 1.

[farside22]

On Nov. 11, 2008 at 10:02 PM I sent a PM to the mod saying I'd like to protect Armlx. Scanning through my sentbox, I see no other submitted actions. That's not to say I didn't send more, since the oldest PM in my savebox is from Oct. 27th.

What you delete messages from your sent box? Why?

[farside22]

There's no point to protect Armlx when SL was on him anyway...I find that kinda scummy...I'd expect a doc to think about their action...

Well, guess we gotta have everyone post and say whether or not they CC.

Gremwell hasn't posted in months, definately needs replacing. Zazier too.

I'm sorry what is CC?
Also very true about SL obvious targeting being Armlx that doc save and reasoning makes no sense.
Considering I believe Wall-E is up to his eyes in games I would believe he forgot what actions he took however I still dont' get why he would delete post. That is the most commen questions asked in mafia.
1) what is your role
2) who did you do X with in regards to the role.

unvote:

[farside22]

No one counter claim. This is an obvious scum ploy, just like yesterday.

Wall-E, SL pretty much announced I would be bus driven last night. EPIC fail.

Ah CC = counter claim. Thanks. I don't see a need for a CC at this point. I really don't see why Wall-E would doc save you and not pick someone like SL which makes more sense.

[farside22]

Yeah wall-es definately lying.

And speaking about lies...

I was never on Slicey's wagon thank you very much.

Vote: Slicey

You're just attacking a random target, almost doing the same thing you claimed of him. Need proof? Look at Emp's posts in isolation and show me ONE place he's pushing for a lynch.

If you voted without a case, that would be one thing, but you had specific behaviors you voted for which are not even CLOSE to reality.

This is true. Also the post were Armlx ask why he hasn't voted. Slicey explains why then a post later post and votes for Empking. Just feels like someone caving to pressure.

unvote:
vote: Slicey

Middle of page 16.

Yay but at the end of the day I read the game and didn't like some peoples votes and questioned it. Which is why I changed my vote to Jebus and still think Jebus is part of the scum group.

[farside22]

So you're saying it was not a lie?

ThAdmiral stated I was on the Slicey BW. I thought he was talking about the end of the day not a vote I placed on him and upon reading the game changed my views.

[farside22]

Got a response:


Night 1: no action taken
Night 2: protected Jebus
Night 3: protected armlx

None of these actions make sense.
N1 no protection? you can't say you weren't around to put in a choice
N2 Jebus? Jebus? Why Jebus of all people?
N3 Armlx was one of the few players that most everyone figure that SL was going to switch. This makes the least amount of sense.

[farside22]

Although I don't see the logic behind any of his actions, I do believe him and definately will not consider voting him without a CC.

I suggest you think about this before rushing the lynch of another possible power-role.

You know Wall-E is voting for you and all this defense of one player for no reason is scummy when you don't know if the player is lying and doc is the easiest thing for scum to claim.

[farside22]

As far as I know cops get guilty on SK almost every game I have been part of.
I think Xtoxm is scum trying to pull a BS case on a claimed cop.

[farside22]

If scum have no GF they no that no cop exists, and setting up a CC makes the one cop look real.

Ummm does Xtoxm look like he has info about the mafia in that last post?
I think so.

vote: Xtoxm

[farside22]

If scum have no GF they no that no cop exists, and setting up a CC makes the one cop look real.

That's the dumbest thing I've hear in a while......

Really? I have some really bad jokes if it helps. Seriously though he is alluding to have some sort of inside information or asking for a CC so the group can kill the doc. I like Xtoxm as scum lots more now.

[farside22]

Well we're both pro-town power-roles so it might be an idea to get a new one installed anyway...

[farside22]

I'm not sure if this is just him being scum or him being vindictive due to me calling him out for being an idiot.

Yeah, but look at some of the other stuff he's tried to push.

True.

Still think Wall-E is the OBV lynch today.

My question is why Gremwell, Slepz, Zazier, RestFermata, springlullaby, farside22 doesn't think so.

Actually I had forgotten till today that 2 doc's are dead. I highly doubt Wall-E is telling the truth. Are we ready for a hammer at this point?

[farside22]

unvote:
vote: Wall-E

[farside22]

So, just to get confirmation, armlx, are you saying that you have a guilty on farside?

Yes.

Do you know if a bus driver targeted you? Because I know your sanity is must be sane from your last two night choices. However I know my alignment is townie.

[farside22]

Living bus drivers should only claim if they swapped Farside with someone, as it appears bus drivers in this game make all actions targetting A target B instead.

P sure there's nothing to do here but lynch Farside, as I can't see why she would be Bus Driven by either of those 2 to anyone.

How do you know who did what? Come on are you seriously saying that you know I wasn't targeted with someone else? SL asked you who you were going to target and you didn't say.
Anyways I need to read the game and find the scum.

[farside22]

End of Day 3 Votecount:

Cream147

(10): Surye, armlx (cop), farside22, kuribo, BlakAdder, Jebus
Jebus (1): Riceballtail


Not voting (7): Gremwell, Slepz, Zazier,

Cream147

, RestFermata, ThAdmiral,

al4xz

With 19 alive it's 10 to lynch.


Votecount:
Slicey (10): armlx (cop), Surye, Riceballtail, BlakAdder,

al4xz (scum),

RestFermata
Jebus (3): farside22,
Wall-E (1): Mana_Ku
farside22 (1): martin413


Not voting (6): Azuma,

Cream147

, Slepz, ace1217, Megatheory, Jebus


End of Day 2 Votecount:
killa seven (8):

al4xz (scum),

farside22, Surye, armlx (cop), BlakAdder,

Cream147 (scum)

Surye (3): Riceballtail
Jebus (1): Shanba


Not voting (8): Megatheory, Azuma, RestFermata, Gremwell, Slepz, Zazier, Jebus

With 22 alive it's 12 to lynch.



End of Day 4 Votecount:
Wall-E (8): kuribo, Riceballtail, armlx (cop), ThAdmiral, Surye, BlakAdder, Jebus, farside22
Xtoxm (1): Wall-E
farside22 (1): Xtoxm

Not voting (5): Gremwell, Netlava, Zazier, RestFermata

With 15 alive it's 8 to lynch.

Okay analysis the vote count I question Jebus who has been on my scumdar since day one. BA who has been very quiet this game which I note is something I see him do lately. I don't know if he is busy or if this is a sign of scum, but his votes are on town more often then not. Finally Survey (this is mild I got a town read from him.) However RF has been lurkering to no end along with Gremwell. I think we will find the scum amoung the quiet ones who offer nothing in this game accepting lurkering.
I still like Jebus as scum at this point.

vote: Jebus

[farside22]

Mod: Please note sig. More likely limited access then Vacation. It depends on a few things.

[farside22]

How do you know who did what? Come on are you seriously saying that you know I wasn't targeted with someone else? SL asked you who you were going to target and you didn't say.

SL couldn't have swapped you and myself, as I am clearly sane and got a scum result. Xtoxm was suspicious of you, meaning he would only swap you with someone likely to be killed, namely SL, who died and couldn't have been swapped, and myself, who I again would not have gotten a guilty on.

Are you physic? I mean really is that all you got on this idea is WIFOM. I understand you have a guilty but you are wrong. Also I love how BA just jumped on a BW without comment, especially with what I stated on him earlier.

[farside22]

Well, we have your iffy "maybe I was bus-driven" defense versus a mostly-confirmed cop claiming he has a guilty on you. I'll side with the cop any day.

I'm thinking of what makes sense to me. There is no "iffy" about it.

[farside22]

How do you know who did what? Come on are you seriously saying that you know I wasn't targeted with someone else? SL asked you who you were going to target and you didn't say.

SL couldn't have swapped you and myself, as I am clearly sane and got a scum result. Xtoxm was suspicious of you, meaning he would only swap you with someone likely to be killed, namely SL, who died and couldn't have been swapped, and myself, who I again would not have gotten a guilty on.

You don't know who did what. That is WIFOM in guessing what people would or would not do.

[farside22]

You don't know who did what. That is WIFOM in guessing what people would or would not do.

No, WIFOM is outguessing people's actions when they have mixed intentions ie. mafiates. What I am doing is making reasonable assumptions about the actions of confirmed town players.

Reasonable assuptions is assuming still. Xtoxm didn't trust me that is clear. Who he would switch with me is a question I have no answer for because it is obvious that SL would switch you. Why would you think Xtoxm would not switch me with someone? Makes sense if he thinks I'm scum to switch me with someone? You think xtoxm was town before his alignment was known?

[farside22]

It makes sense to switch you with someone likely to die, the 2 most logical targets having been cleared of being swapped last night as per my above post, leaving the most likely option as you having NOT been swapped.

You think xtoxm was town before his alignment was known?

I did not, but this is completely irrelevant.

Not everything is clear to me. I see anything as possible when I know you are wrong. Should I just claim now or wait for more votes?
Meh if all you going to do is use your claim of guilty without thinking about the logic of a bus driver I will claim now to stop this argument.
I am vig. I targeted Xtoxm because I thought he was scum.

[farside22]

Cool.

Self vig tonight please.

Moving along, I'll look back and see what I think.

You want me to shoot myself? Is that anti or even possible? I never thought a vig would shoot himself. I shot al4 night 3. I have to look at my out box for night 1 and night 2.

[farside22]

Target no one night 1. targeted Jebus night 2. Looks like wall-e protected Jebus that night. I thought jebus and still think Jebus is scum. I thought Wall-E was a possible scum doc. And yes I know games that have scum doctors.
I don't see how shooting myself helps the town in this case Armlx. If we miss lynch today what is the chances of scum win? Shouldn't I shoot someone who seems or is possible scum then myself or not shot at all if we mislynch.

[farside22]

Out guessing mod is bad. Alright armlx I will self shot. If I survive tomorrow hang me.
Sticking with Jebus as scum at this point.

[farside22]

Busy moving, so I haven't had much time.... but was it really smart for a pro-town vig to kill al4 when we had CLEARLY established there was a 50/50 he would be busdriven with a claimed cop?


....Seriously? Sounds like an SK to me.

I stated the vig should shoot Al4 so the bus driver would not switch them.
Reading is tech.

[farside22]

Busy moving, so I haven't had much time.... but was it really smart for a pro-town vig to kill al4 when we had CLEARLY established there was a 50/50 he would be busdriven with a claimed cop?


....Seriously? Sounds like an SK to me.

I stated the vig should shoot Al4 so the bus driver would not switch them.
Reading is tech.

And you were clearly ignored, and yet you still took a chance on a cop? No one agreed with you, and there was still a chance for the switch. It was a TERRIBLE town move, regardless of what you said.

I wasn't ignored Al4 is dead because of me. Not anti town in the least giving a heads up in the game that a target of al4 to the bus drive leads to one dead scum.

[farside22]

Busy moving, so I haven't had much time.... but was it really smart for a pro-town vig to kill al4 when we had CLEARLY established there was a 50/50 he would be busdriven with a claimed cop?


....Seriously? Sounds like an SK to me.

I stated the vig should shoot Al4 so the bus driver would not switch them.
Reading is tech.

And you were clearly ignored, and yet you still took a chance on a cop? No one agreed with you, and there was still a chance for the switch. It was a TERRIBLE town move, regardless of what you said.

I wasn't ignored Al4 is dead because of me. Not anti town in the least giving a heads up in the game that a target of al4 to the bus drive leads to one dead scum.

You were ignored. There was a chance either way by that plan, you got lucky. You took an unnecissary risk. A very antitown one. When cream flipped scum, al4 was doomed to be lynched. You just risked armlx.

That is a bull. I didn't risk anything by making that statment.
Also I will note that most people voting or pushing are trying to get rid of a claim vig are more likely mafia who are scared that they will be killed.

[farside22]

Just doing math.

8-3-1 right now. Worst case, we lynch scum today, Farside is SK, 2 town kills tonight

5-3-1, lynch Farside, 4-3 LyLo the next morning.

We have room for error here UNLESS farside is mafia, which I doubt.

So, thoughts on who else to lynch?

I think there might be more the 3 mafia. In a 25 player game I could see 6 mafia members, but that is just a guess. So it is a possible
8 town and 4 mafia left in the game.
I seriously think BA and jebus are scum at this point. BA's vote after my claim reaks of scum wanting to get rid of a power role.

[farside22]

BA's vote after my claim reaks of scum wanting to get rid of a power role.

We already played that game once.

That is was a doc who made some really suspicious choices.
Also scum wants a vig dead. Why would the want to not lynch me I could kill them and lynching me gets rid of a problem at night.

[farside22]

YOU HAVE A GUILTY ON YOU.

Just making sure we are all in reality land.

And we have or had bus drivers in the game. Point?

[farside22]

YOU HAVE A GUILTY ON YOU.

Just making sure we are all in reality land.

And we have or had bus drivers in the game. Point?

Only one of thos e could have feasibly targeted you, and the odds of you being a target for him assuming completely random scenario where myself and xtoxm are eliminated as targets as per my analysis your scenario is at a 1/6 chance of truth. Not to mention xtoxm had incentive to target SL last night in which case the odds of my result being tainted are 0%.

Obviously looking at who is dead xtoxm did not target SL. SL is dead if you didn't notice. So please try again if you aren't paying attention to who is dead or alive in this case. Xtoxm obviously didn't do what he should have done last night unless you think the scum targeted me instead. Are you really going to say that?

[farside22]

YOU HAVE A GUILTY ON YOU.

Just making sure we are all in reality land.

And we have or had bus drivers in the game. Point?

Point is, there's a guilty SOMEWHERE. No busdrivers are stepping forward as targetting you. Should we mass claim "Not-Bus-Driver-That-Targeted-Farside"? Or do we think a mafia BD is that likely?

I would not want to see a BD outted to save me. Either I die today by lynch or tonight by self vigging. I just think Armlx keeps missing the point that xtoxm didnt' do anything as he is predicting.

[farside22]

Obviously looking at who is dead xtoxm did not target SL. SL is dead if you didn't notice. So please try again if you aren't paying attention to who is dead or alive in this case. Xtoxm obviously didn't do what he should have done last night unless you think the scum targeted me instead. Are you really going to say that?

Its possible scum targeted you last night. Its also possible xtoxm swapped me and SL last night assuming SL was scum bus driver and scum tried to kill me.

Yes physic network. I'm sorry the lines are busy but if you are welcome to make your own guesses and not call it wifom.

[farside22]

Yes physic network. I'm sorry the lines are busy but if you are welcome to make your own guesses and not call it wifom. Rolling Eyes

Again, I've shown how the most probable scenario is you are scum.

No you are guessing with no fact behind it. Saying that scum targeted me is ludicious. That is the only explaination on why SL died. That's it. Other then that you are really reaching.

[farside22]

EBWODP: The intent of my post was to say that scum targeting you was a corner case, just like the other one I presented. Sorry if there was confusion.

The most likely scenario is still you weren't bus driven and are scum.

Not scum. Obviously you think people always make sense. Or did I miss that part. See the right thing for xtoxm to have done was bus driven SL with someone he felt was scum. SL was an obvious choice for scum to make. So in my mind whatever xtoxm did it was wrong.

[farside22]

Or scum didn't target SL, targeted a random townie, and xtoxm got unlucky.

P(you as xtoxm's target) is at best 1/6.

The chances of that happening are what exactly? Did the mafia have some thought that there could be another bus driver? Are they physic too? Wow I want to be physic.

[farside22]

Why would they assume there WEREN'T more bus drivers?

The odds that armlx comment about the mafia target and xtoxm moving someone is 1 out of 13 people at night. Armlx as states that mafia would target someone town and Xtoxm would target someone he felt was scummy to change positions. Why would the scum target a scummy player?





Nope makes no sense to me and the odds are against that happening. Ergo I dont' believe since I know I'm telling the truth that Xtoxm did any such thing.

[farside22]

yes, because everything xtoxm did this game was perfectly logical

THAT IS MY POINT. Geez. Armlx is stating what is likely happened and I'm saying there is no way to know.

Anyways I agree to vig myself tonight. K.

[farside22]

you know, you could just ask the mod in a PM if you're allowed to self-vig at night

I did ask. He said yes, so I'm complying with the town's wishes.

[farside22]

I already stated limited access till Monday myself. I know quiet a few people who stated the same in other games.

[farside22]

Sens:

In summary, I am a cop. I counter claimed al4xz (scum) when he claimed with a guilty on Cream (also scum). Had an innocent on Surye that was actually an innocent on Muerrto due to a bus drive by SL. Then I got an innocent on Kuribo, but that was again a bus driven result (Kuribo and myself swapped via SL). Last night I got a guilty on Farside, who has since claimed vig.

I vigged al4 and vig killed xtoxm because I found his play scummy.

[farside22]

if i haven't yet

vote: farside

Someone isn't paying attention. That is 3 votes you placed on me. I'm sure you have just one vote. umm k.