mini normal 2226; who won

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm holding off voting for right now, waiting for Lukewarm's catchup. Alch not giving any reads and just going "maybe this person's theory is right, idk" feels not great. He also hasn't really mentioned Gamma at all and now he's in his solve, is this just a sheep of Koba's thoughts or do you see something there you don't like?

Gamma was my weakest Townread and the rest of my earlier solve except Titis is gone. People are saying Ari’s play this game is a Towntell and I’m pretty sure Koba’s Town at this point.

I thought Gamma was Town when on D1 he said he was kinda struggling with getting into the game which is why I reached out to him to try and get him engaged (and that attempt is another reason everyone should realize I’m Town btw). I’m used to Gamma doing more as both alignments so it’s harder to go off his content and that’s the first Townread I’m going to question since I have to reevaluate.

I’d say at least 40% of why I’m not really that active this game stems from my spat with Math D1

[Gamma Emerald]

I concede ari could be a blind spot but theyre too fun so i wont be accepting criticism

As an Ace Attorney fan I feel like you should be more of a mind to ignore personal attachment
I pretty much use the Edgeworth approach in my games without fail now

[Gamma Emerald]

I’d say at least 40% of why I’m not really that active this game stems from my spat with Math D1

FYI this isn’t Math’s fault exactly, I don’t think he could have predicted I’d just about shut down in response to him

[Gamma Emerald]

my issue ig with koba!scum is that i vaguely remember vulture being like, a viable wagon, and umlaut doing jack shit to help them.

I don’t entirely buy this defense (though I will admit I tried to use it to defend myself as town once before)
I have seen scum legitimately go full rogue and practically out the entire scumteam without consulting anybody

[Gamma Emerald]

I don’t think “scum wouldn’t let their buddy basically rot in this situation” is a very good general tell

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: dkkoba
we're doing this now, cool

[Gamma Emerald]

there's 2 options here:
You're town and your read on me implies im town based on prior game evidence
Youre scum and you're trying to miselim me

both scenarios in town. Thank u im clear now

I have seen [name redacted] do this sort of shit as scum, not buying it from you

[Gamma Emerald]

it's not exactly a person specific tell (though it's not really a tell at all)
it's really easy to meta manipulate a hard pattern to fit what you want to argue imo

[Gamma Emerald]

why are you jumping to that game???

[Gamma Emerald]

trust me that I'm still very good friends with ND39 if that's where your mind went

[Gamma Emerald]

meh
I'm done arguing with your bs, none of what you've said rings even remotely like something coming from town, you are like the epitome of gaslight, gatekeep, girlboss here (pardon the gendered term but that's the best way I can describe your play atp)

[Gamma Emerald]

I was and that's why my play there wasn't suspected
the last couple-few scumgames I had before that against Titus she pretty much always had me pinned at some point during the game

[Gamma Emerald]

remind me to post about the setup there once the actual flip happens because I have thoughts on the validity of day roles
also I specced that from 4p, it was pretty tight and I feel like I would've made the wrong call in 3p based on you and kyouko's last posts

[Gamma Emerald]

game just finished -> viewtopic.php?f=2&t=87211

main reason why im so skeptical of this interaction between titus/math where math is shielded by titus (?) while titus knows the very last time before this game they were town against scum!math she got pocketed to no end and manipulated to take me down with her

This is actually fair and a valid criticism...to a point.

Just because I read Math wrong before, it doesn't invalidate what I am seeing. It makes any meta argument less persuasive but I'm largely not townreading Math by meta.

Second, I have been fooled by you before too which is, under your logic, grounds to be suspicious of you.

I'm tossing you several branches of logic that should tell you im town and you're intentionally swatting them aside in favor of maintaining this tunnel

Tossing me a branch would be answering my questions.

Telling me I've been wrong in the past is just a fact, not sound logic.

It’s also a discredit

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m pretty sure Koba’s not scum. The transition from “not gonna tryhard lol” to now trying reads like Town that wanted to hold back but couldn’t help themselves.

Why could it not be scum who sees they are starting to garner suspicions, and decided that they could not just sit back?

"started efforting" seems like a pretty weak reason to be "pretty sure" that he is town x.x

This feels more like what Koba is doing
Koba has an infatuation with mentioning Townstumps as a reason to distrust me but tbh I think their play in this game and that one feels a bit similar

[Gamma Emerald]

that's ok. You dont have enough votes to eliminate me.

I wouldn’t be so sure about that

[Gamma Emerald]

I think Datisi Chaos Math Gamma Luke Me is a decent townblock

This sounds pretty good rn

[Gamma Emerald]

If we add in Not_Mafia then this is auto. Pretty sure.

Even leaving him out it’s auto
Adding him makes it auto with a chance to course-correct

[Gamma Emerald]

gamma - answer how im similar to townstumps and why you aren't.

You’re getting agitated in response to pressure on your slot, just like how Nancy getting pushed off being low-impact made you lash out
And I can’t exactly say my plan differs from that game but there’s an explanation for it that isn’t “Gamma is scum” and I’ve brought it up multiple times now

[Gamma Emerald]

gamma - answer how im similar to townstumps and why you aren't.

You’re getting agitated in response to pressure on your slot, just like how Nancy getting pushed off being low-impact made you lash out
And I can’t exactly say my plan differs from that game but there’s an explanation for it that isn’t “Gamma is scum” and I’ve brought it up multiple times now

and ive never been agitated in completed games as town?

The way it happened feels like how it happened in Townstumps
I can’t entirely recall any other instances of it

[Gamma Emerald]

Convince me I am wrong on Gamma.

this is something that i thought of earlier, i think there's a legit chance you're wrong on him. or rather, that your reason for clearing him isn't sound. think of n2.

however, the actual issue being, if gamma is scum, i think his most likely partner is aristeia, and i don't wanna lie in that world :/

What the fuck is there to think of from n2?

[Gamma Emerald]

I also think gamma is a bit townier than I thought initially ?

but im also not so sure on townreading them.

Honestly this feels even more like bullshit than your initial SR on me

[Gamma Emerald]

You are saying I deliberately am copying Vulture?

It’s entirely possible, in my book

[Gamma Emerald]

if anyone's not aware, umlaut is a competent scum player. dismissing someone as his partner because he gave a medium strong townread or fos in their direction is very stupid.

i kinda think titus fits the bill as a scumpartner based on how much titus subtly avoided that wagon when it had heat and only bussed when it was inevitable.

the way she talked him up so much you'd think it was her top scumread -> but her actions display a very opposite mindset.

Spoiler:

uh oh datisi is scum

koba pls stop

go back to talking about gamma, you were smarter

eww

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Asteria

everything comes back to this.

d1 gamma feels unaligned with umlaut and looks to have their own original thoughts and such. scum gamma i remember being more or less unoriginal in thought.

I know for a fact Titus is the real deal. Math may not be reading her signs but I certainly was. She’s locktown for me, done deal.

[Gamma Emerald]

You are saying I deliberately am copying Vulture?

It’s entirely possible, in my book

the near conf town thinks you are scum.


the person who was thunderdoming is now entertaining that you are scum -

so I implore you, tread with MUCH caution around me now. I have the power to shift the tides well against you and I saw glimpses of good in your ISO, so let's see you wake up and start with some good faith towards me here with the new info in front of you, eh?

I know I’m town. I know Titus is town. You’ve been going against us this entire time, either one or both. If you don’t want to burn in hellfire tonight, you’ll step the fuck off.

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Asteria

everything comes back to this.

d1 gamma feels unaligned with umlaut and looks to have their own original thoughts and such. scum gamma i remember being more or less unoriginal in thought.

I know for a fact Titus is the real deal. Math may not be reading her signs but I certainly was. She’s locktown for me, done deal.

then why did she 180 you here

Doubt happened. But I’m dead certain that Titus is town.

[Gamma Emerald]

koba, why does gamma feel unaligned? i ctrl+f'ed "umlaut" in his iso, there's like, one weak scumread mention that's conditional on like two townflips

VOTE: Umlaut

gamma, why the vote here?

I trust Titus

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma, can you just claim your night action to prove your alignment? I'm bored with this.

Fine. I’m a gated rolecop, and N1 I checked Umlaut and got no result. During D2 I caught a crumb from Titus that informed me her role was Jailkeeper and she targeted me. The reason I’ve been trying to dodge claiming is in order to claim my information effectively, I had to out Titus.
VOTE: DkKoba
Let’s burn to witch who pushed us into this situation.

[Gamma Emerald]

You are saying I deliberately am copying Vulture?

It’s entirely possible, in my book

the near conf town thinks you are scum.


the person who was thunderdoming is now entertaining that you are scum -

so I implore you, tread with MUCH caution around me now. I have the power to shift the tides well against you and I saw glimpses of good in your ISO, so let's see you wake up and start with some good faith towards me here with the new info in front of you, eh?

I know I’m town. I know Titus is town. You’ve been going against us this entire time, either one or both. If you don’t want to burn in hellfire tonight, you’ll step the fuck off.

[Gamma Emerald]

I didn’t act n2
That’s why I specified gated

[Gamma Emerald]

Titus targeted Datisi N2

[Gamma Emerald]

I wish you got my crumbs, but oh well bro.

Looks like I'll have to secure a piece of art rather than a gem this time. I think I'll have to draw this piece of art from memory.

This is Titus crumbing that she’s going to target Datisi N2
Datisi’s title is Drawn from Memory, and I have Emerald in my username, thus explaining the references to art and gems

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: alch

if i dismantled a scum wagon just for this mess, i'm gonna be sad.

@koba, that alch towncase whenever you're ready.

I’d very much rather we vote out the person who necessitated this course of action, aka DkKoba

[Gamma Emerald]

i dont give a shit about your ego. i was working with the info I had from my point of view - you were playing assuming I knew the information all along.

I don’t give a shit what you knew or not, at this point ignorance is no excuse for what you’ve done, which is relentless push two people who were confirmed town to each other to the point of having to claim the why. YOU. DIE. TODAY.

[Gamma Emerald]

wasn't it me who was like "yo titus we should run gamma up to claim" lmao

I acknowledge this but there’s not much immediate restitution I can pursue on that matter
Dk however has been, in their words, “howling” about how me and/or Titus are such scum nonstop since replacing in, and if you can’t see the scum agenda to that then you’re god damn blind.

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: alch

if i dismantled a scum wagon just for this mess, i'm gonna be sad.

@koba, that alch towncase whenever you're ready.

I’d very much rather we vote out the person who necessitated this course of action, aka DkKoba

I wouldn't have done it but for obvious reasons we'll see after I eat a nightkill.

For Gamma to be scum his team would have to

A) Rolecop me N1
B) Solve my crumbs D2
And
C) Shoot Datisi anyway

OR

A) Rolecop me N1 or N2
B) Solve my crumbs D3
C) Have Gamma drop them at the right time organically.

Since 1 isn't plausible. That leaves 2.


I find 2 isn't likely because Math didn't get it.

There’s another option technically

[Gamma Emerald]

it wasn't ignorance - it was me being fucking good at this game and knowing when someone is being dishonest about something or has more info than they are letting on. i can sense when a game has a masonry, for instance.

read the way I progessed on you and tell me that isn't the way someone who is actually *uninformed* about you being town treats you

I am beyond reason at this point. You’ve officially made me channel RadiantCowbells because I’m certain were he in my position he’d also want your head for the shit you’ve done. Your play here has done nothing but help scum regardless of your alignment. Eat the lim that’s coming to you.

[Gamma Emerald]

Say it and I'll confirm or deny whether it's an option.

Me and Datisi are scum, caught your crumbs/rolecopped you, and sent Datisi to NK you n2

[Gamma Emerald]

I detected something extremely weird in your corner - and I was correct. I just was wrong about the direction it was in - because you WERE being shifty and deceptive about something - and you think because I did catch you that it's scummy LOL get real ur just egomad that you felt forced to claim

Am I egomad, perhaps, but it doesn’t change the fact you pushed 2 town PRs that until you came in were widely accepted as town
Regardless of your flip you pushed a scum agenda. It’s that simple.

[Gamma Emerald]

it wasn't ignorance - it was me being fucking good at this game and knowing when someone is being dishonest about something or has more info than they are letting on. i can sense when a game has a masonry, for instance.

read the way I progessed on you and tell me that isn't the way someone who is actually *uninformed* about you being town treats you

I am beyond reason at this point. You’ve officially made me channel RadiantCowbells because I’m certain were he in my position he’d also want your head for the shit you’ve done. Your play here has done nothing but help scum regardless of your alignment. Eat the lim that’s coming to you.

radientcowbells isn't a 1 dimensional player, this is quite insulting lmao.

There are points where he unequivocally calls for someone’s blood, imo this would be one of those times

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma, even the doc save suspected(and still may actually) - don't pretend that my push against your little corner of people *has* to be from scum because clearly that is proven false.

I’m not certain you flip scum: I’m certain that you have to DIE.

[Gamma Emerald]

Also I feel like my most egomad moments come when I’m reacting to scum so the fact you’re trying to pass me off as that condemns you further

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma, even the doc save suspected(and still may actually) - don't pretend that my push against your little corner of people *has* to be from scum because clearly that is proven false.

I’m not certain you flip scum: I’m certain that you have to DIE.

if you wanna play grudges dont play in any future games with me. I dont tolerate that kind of play.

I’m not gonna prosecute this past this game unless you make it an issue

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma, even the doc save suspected(and still may actually) - don't pretend that my push against your little corner of people *has* to be from scum because clearly that is proven false.

I’m not certain you flip scum: I’m certain that you have to DIE.

if you wanna play grudges dont play in any future games with me. I dont tolerate that kind of play.

I’m not gonna prosecute this past this game unless you make it an issue

cool, well I'm not gonna respect a single thought you have on this game until you try to look at stuff holistically rather than emotionally.

I am viewing your play holistically
Do you not agree that by pushing me and Titus, two generally townread people, to the point we had to claim to get you off our back, you have served the scum wincon?

[Gamma Emerald]

You are so 1 dimensional holy shit lol

what the fuck do you think my motivation was?

do you think you guys had a sign above your heads like "hey look these 2 are PRs with info who could claim!" and then like the fact i didnt even see titus soft like LMFAO

So as scum you wouldn’t have picked up on the same secrecy you’re claiming to have picked up on as town? How the fuck do you cope then when PR hunting is a pretty key part of being scum?

[Gamma Emerald]

If everyone decides Alch is the better pick I can defer your death but you die today or you die tomorrow pretty much

[Gamma Emerald]

nope I softed it to protect the real on but it looks like it was positive utility claimed from my pov in terms of dayplay.

you know who else benefits from those claims happening? SCUM!!!

[Gamma Emerald]

nope I softed it to protect the real on but it looks like it was positive utility claimed from my pov in terms of dayplay.

you know who else benefits from those claims happening? SCUM!!!

ok but resolving 2 slots at once is actually pretty useful too.

now you have no excuse for not dying tonight unless there is another no kill - and no one needs to ever tinfoil titus anymore.

afaict no one WAS tinfoiling Titus until YOU came along.

[Gamma Emerald]

Before I go and pull the things i saw from alch that made me think he is town -> I'd like Alch to present how he feels about the gamestate now that it's shifted dramatically.

Titus is hardcleared unless NM counterclaims.

I think it’s a little convenient for Gamma to claim they targeted Umlaut N1.

I also hate how everyone is at each other’s throats more after the scumflip as opposed to before. The game felt way more cohesive D2.

But does it not track that me getting blocked > voted the person I tried to target? "I trust Titus" was clearly a BS reason to cover for my NA since Titus voted Umlaut

after

me.

[Gamma Emerald]

Why did you target Umlaut N1? What were your thoughts on Chaos claiming TI who had a guilty on Umlaut?

Umlaut was in this neat little venn diagram overlap spot of "low content thus good target for TIs" and "suspicious person who's likely to have to claim and as scum good for me to target since my MO as rolecop is to keep people honest"
my thoughts on Chaos are that I'm skeptical but I can see how Chaos targeted Umlaut, since I presume he operated on the same logic of "this slot is low content so I should use my action to bring him into the light"

[Gamma Emerald]

that said it's possible the remaining members of the scumteam are neighbour + goon so a "vanilla" result ain't clearing but that's neither here nor there ig

oh my brain lol


i forgot that being in a scum pt makes u automatically in a PT .. the neighbor flip from umlaut just sorta made my brain shut off and think that it had to be so.

another townslip oops!

this I could maybe see as a townslip except you're scrambling to get one to stick

[Gamma Emerald]

So here's the situation.

Scum have a dillema.
Do they shoot me and gamble that I block any investigative that might have a guilty? [I still feel neighbor is a misleading role but we'll see.]
Vanilla doesn't clear anyone and Chaos is an unknown investigative.
Do they shoot Gamma and pray I am not on him?
Do they shoot Chaos and assume I am not on him?
If they fail their kill, they are near certainly facing another investigation.

yes, this actually *complicated* the game much more for scum in a way that scum wouldn't like.

if both scum make it through the day perhaps
scum getting voted out means Titus can just target the most suspected remaining player, I rolecop them, and chaos does whatever makes sense with his action

[Gamma Emerald]

Why did you target Umlaut N1? What were your thoughts on Chaos claiming TI who had a guilty on Umlaut?

Umlaut was in this neat little venn diagram overlap spot of "low content thus good target for TIs" and "suspicious person who's likely to have to claim and as scum good for me to target since my MO as rolecop is to keep people honest"
my thoughts on Chaos are that I'm skeptical but I can see how Chaos targeted Umlaut, since I presume he operated on the same logic of "this slot is low content so I should use my action to bring him into the light"

So you didn’t think much of another TI existing?

I'm a gated rolecop, I figured there was room for another TI in the setup

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: alchemist
tbh koba's last post vibes with me in a way that actually stems the murderlust for now

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm an informed gunsmith. N1 Umlaut has a gun, N2 Koba no gun, N3 Gamma has a gun.

I am informed that only one mafia has a gun, which is why I've been bringing up traitors throughout the game.

Well in this case Koba actually is town, since Koba is vanilla, and has no gun; this means that there is no role combination Koba can be in order to be mafia without a gun. So while I’m still disappointed in them, Koba is conf town now at least

[Gamma Emerald]

So unless the last non-traitor scum is a doctor neighbor, the other neighbor should be town, which infinitely confuses me as to why they didn’t claim

[Gamma Emerald]

Wait no traitor neighbor is also possible, I’m being stupid

[Gamma Emerald]

Also as I was looking into things to determine if I wanted to target Koba or someone else (which I only would’ve done if I had a lead wrt the other neighbor) I noticed the T3 kill in a way points to Aristeia, that was the only sus I could find in T3’s ISO towards the end of Day 1, despite it being a sheep vote

[Gamma Emerald]

I'd like some more speculation about who I protected please.

i definitely expect one of gamma/chaos to be protects, but they both have a result, so... i dunno, not_mafia is a consensus town? i'm starting to think you blocked the killer rather than the victim.

Yeah I would have figured Titus be the target if the last scum weren’t a strongman or w/e

[Gamma Emerald]

Doctor isn’t a hard guilty outside of that knowledge that only one scum has a gun

[Gamma Emerald]

True

[Gamma Emerald]

Koba has to be town unless one of me/chaos are scum
So if you think we’re both town than Koba is mech conf town

[Gamma Emerald]

I don’t see how doctor strongman would need a gun
Ime mafia doctor would only get gun again if it has a role that would show up as having a gun if town

[Gamma Emerald]

Tbh I think trying to play assuming balance isn’t the best way. Imo you play with what you know vs. what you think, and work from there

[Gamma Emerald]

I could see maybe 4 scum with (traitor, traitor neighbor, neighbor goon, doctor) perhaps working

[Gamma Emerald]

I could see maybe 4 scum with (traitor, traitor neighbor, neighbor goon, doctor) perhaps working

i have a feeling i've seen mastina say somewhere that she hates 4-scum mini normals. i can try to find it later, but i don't think it's likely she'd design a game like that

Oh was she a reviewer? Ngl that makes me more inclined to just forget about what’s balanced or not since she always explains her thought process from the review postgame

[Gamma Emerald]

If you’re going to continue being unpleasant and acting like your play was perfectly fine then I’m very likely just avoiding you from now on, because you still thought “these people are being cagey so they have to be scum because there’s ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY NO POSSIBLE UNIVERSE where they’re PRs right?”

[Gamma Emerald]

Like damn, I’m not gonna namedrop for a couple reasons but you’re kinda coming off like a certain Survivor player who is rather reviled for not knowing how to sort which secrets are okay to call out

[Gamma Emerald]

also i deserved to be a little high and mighty and brag about being clear after the way my slot was treated last dayphase ~~

im gonna actually catch up now.

You were treated that way because you were being a moron
Stay humble.

[Gamma Emerald]

You weren’t any better
Maybe if you ever showed any signs ever of taking your failures on board I wouldn’t be as vicious about this one.

[Gamma Emerald]

u are just mad i made you claim bc you were constantly pushing on townies lol

Mind telling me how being wrong is a scumtell?

[Gamma Emerald]

So what I’m getting is you can’t actually rationalize your idiotic play and are hiding behind bullshit now

[Gamma Emerald]

I’ll be chill once I can tell you’ll actually play better next game, which I’m not seeing

[Gamma Emerald]

You also pushed 2 town because you confused PR play for scum play
Imo it breaks even, so I don’t get why you’re acting so high and mighty about your successes and not seeming to learn at all from your fuck ups

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m not saying I’m totally better than you but I at least try to avoid repeating the same stupid-ass mistakes over and over
If you’re acting like your play this game had zero problems, which is what it seems like, then I have zero faith you’re not going to continue to out town PRs for keeping secrets

[Gamma Emerald]

Jesus. I am hoping that you are both scum trying to drown the thread, because it is increasingly frustrating that neither one of you appear to be willing to drop it just for the sake of thread health

Honestly I wish that were the case too, at least then I wouldn’t have to worry about whether Koba is going to fuck up future games by repeating the shit they’re pulling here

[Gamma Emerald]

Fair enough
I feel like I shouldn’t have to spell out things to that extent to have to be trusted, but I guess it was selfish
I just tend to be in the same belief set that Titus+Math are in where unless absolutely required outing mechanical stuff is not what I want to do over just trying to convince people with words

[Gamma Emerald]

Anything directly in the setup I’d expect the mod to have answers ready for before the game starts
When it comes to speculated roles that aren’t in the game that can get a bit shaky

[Gamma Emerald]

My role is limited though?

[Gamma Emerald]

maybe not mafia forgot to put a nightkill in

Possible but I doubt it. When I was scum with Not Mafia just a game ago he checked in. He also never hammered e-1 in those games.

Plus Umlaut v Flubber/Not Mafia is a thing.

Probably looking at an intentional scum no kill.

That’s probably just it
The question is who and why

[Gamma Emerald]

Although I’ve also seen active scum forget to submit because they were busy talking it over

[Gamma Emerald]

ok but in this game state with 9 alive why would scum choose to deliberately no-kill?

it would actually explain the delayed night end as well if the mod didnt have a nightkill action from the scum player and delayed to give him a new chance to submit a nk but he just didn't do it.

Yeah this feels like it makes sense, given there was I game I modded where I kinda let a night go on longer than it was supposed to and scum forgot to submit the kill within the actual deadline, and I didn’t accept the late submission

[Gamma Emerald]

That’s right, there’s only one scum capable of submitting the NK and since Umlaut is dead there’s most likely no connection between the traitor and final groupscum
So that probably raises the chance it was an accidental no kill a good amount

[Gamma Emerald]

That’s right, there’s only one scum capable of submitting the NK and since Umlaut is dead there’s most likely no connection between the traitor and final groupscum
So that probably raises the chance it was an accidental no kill a good amount

I patently disagree here.
I think scum deliberately no killed.

I’m not saying I’m certain that’s the case, just that it’s more likely than I was initially thinking

[Gamma Emerald]

so where I'm at rn is this:
me and koba are in a spot where we can each only be scum with chaos
this means if we can sort 3 slots as town we can basically reach a point where we elim in the pool of three that weren't sorted as town that aren't chaos/koba/me for the next 2 days, and if neither of those flips scum we flip chaos in 5p limlo (since no matter who his partner is, chaos has to be scum)
atm I feel like my 3 would be titus, datisi, and someone else, who I'm feeling would be nm kinda off his recent play, which seems pretty solid
that leaves a pool of luke, ari, and math

[Gamma Emerald]

Dats, are you claiming a PR?

yeah. 2912 wasn't too off the mark. i'm a traffic analyst.

do you have a result from last night?

[Gamma Emerald]

oh nvm, cool

[Gamma Emerald]

it's the same a pt cop, except for:

- mailman returns a positive result
- a person alone in a pt returns a negative result.

n1 checked umlaut, got a can communicate. i very subtly softed this on d2, you may have noticed.

n2 i checked alch, got no result. (soft in 1656 - "not sure where to go now")

n3 i checked mathblade, got a cannot communicate. (soft in 2655 - "dreams don't always come true", i talked about having a dream where math was scum earlier in the game.) this is why i said that we don't yeet him before another scum has flipped, because then we get insight on the scum pt distributions. a traffic analyst gets a "cannot communicate" result (false clear, basically) on people that are alone in their pt. right now, there's no way to know if the remaining two scum are in a pt together (which would make this a hardclear), or if the team is something like {mafia doctor, mafia neighbour, mafia traitor neighbour} which would make my result literally worthless.

so assuming we flip another scum today:
traitor flip = math could be scum, nontraitor flip = math can only be scum traitor and in that case the game would be over
this might make my "create a townbin and vote outside of it" play even more viable?

[Gamma Emerald]

Turns out both our naked votes were softing guilties, lol.

tfw 3 TIs presumably targeted the same scum n1
Umlaut was straight up uberfucked, jeez

[Gamma Emerald]

neighborized people don't flip as neighbor fyi

[Gamma Emerald]

what's the difference

[Gamma Emerald]

atp I think I need to fullclaim in order to ensure the setup spec goes right, I'm really just 2 shot vs. odd night

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Chaos

I think we vote Chaos for the autowin scenario.

If he is town then we lock firm a bunch and if he is scum then we got a scum or traitor so yay!?

idk if that's what we should do, I'm trying to run the associative math
but I think atp I'm conftown via 2 others having to have fudged something in order for me to be scum?

[Gamma Emerald]

atp I think I need to fullclaim in order to ensure the setup spec goes right, I'm really just 2 shot vs. odd night

Why did you holster night 2?

I mentioned I caught a different crumb from titus, that resulted in me not knowing who she was targeting again, so I wasn't in the mood to potentially waste another shot to being blocked

[Gamma Emerald]

but I think atp I'm conftown via 2 others having to have fudged something in order for me to be scum?

walk me through this?

that would require
a) chaos to be lying about either his result on me or his information
and
b) titus to have somehow blocked me despite being loyal

[Gamma Emerald]

but I still think in the case I am scum I end up catching Titus' crumb of targeting you because I'd be more inclined to hunt for that? So once again it falls back to "why would gamma try to shoot someone he knows is getting JKed?"

[Gamma Emerald]

How is voting me autowin again?

Because assuming you’re town flipping you gives more confirmed town than anything.

Gamma and Koba become lock.
Datisi is lock because Datisi +Titus can’t exist

Gamma + Koba + Datisi + Titus = 4 conf town

PoE is too small.

Then why not lim twice in the PoE assuming all those are conftown, if neither of the lims are on scum, then lim me?

I'm with chaos on this one
atp we just lim in ari/luke/nm twice, and if no scum are flipped then we have to solve the rest of this puzzle in 5p

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: not_mafia
well I think that's that because I trust datisi much more than nm at this juncture

[Gamma Emerald]

he's still in the PoE so unless I have better reason to target someone else in it I'm on him until he retracts

[Gamma Emerald]

ngl part of me thinks NM is telling the truth

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: lukewarm
NM you should target within (chaos, datisi, maybe titus) tonight

[Gamma Emerald]

I think NM barely posted D3
and his posting today has kinda made sense as PR skeptical of the claims, he was pushing chaos before you claimed

[Gamma Emerald]

Lol mod with the deadline

Aristeia also apparently has a double vote

[Gamma Emerald]

I want a quarter pounder with cheese

[Gamma Emerald]

I am struggling to follow what the hell is going on

[Gamma Emerald]

What I think math is saying is if both scum try to push the remaining townie they lose, the issue there is they aren’t obligated to do that

[Gamma Emerald]

What I think math is saying is if both scum try to push the remaining townie they lose, the issue there is they aren’t obligated to do that

Then they bus and they’re outed for bussing.

It’s a no win situation for scum.

Okay now you’ve lost me, how does bussing out them? They’re not obligated to cross bus either

[Gamma Emerald]

What I think math is saying is if both scum try to push the remaining townie they lose, the issue there is they aren’t obligated to do that

Then they bus and they’re outed for bussing.

It’s a no win situation for scum.

Okay now you’ve lost me, how does bussing out them? They’re not obligated to cross bus either

We know scum are forced to bus so anyone not conf on the wagon looks sus
Scum can’t bus and can’t not bus
Ergo they lose

Your problem is assuming scum are going on with zero consideration of prior stances or anti-coordination (basically doing different things individually to reach the same group final goal)
Unless both scum are forced to take their stance immediately they have way more wiggle room than you think

[Gamma Emerald]

Like the obvious third option to what math is saying is “one scum busses, the other pushes town”

[Gamma Emerald]

My clear only functions as long as Chaos is also town, otherwise he could be misleading about his information or Koba result

[Gamma Emerald]

My main concern there is that means Datisi + NM are both town
I could def see NM as just gambiting tho

[Gamma Emerald]

This feels very weirdchamp but
Titus do you think an Ari/Datisi team is at all possible?

[Gamma Emerald]

Then let’s hope Datisi is the traitorrrrrrrrr
Okay with that thought that world isn’t entirely in weirdchamp territory rn

[Gamma Emerald]

One of the factors in town’s loss in mini 2170 was that the Loyal JK in that game thought he successfully stopped a kill on the BP traitor

[Gamma Emerald]

You’ve posted that one gif like thrice now >:/

[Gamma Emerald]

Sure but it’s fun to see fresh gifs

[Gamma Emerald]

You’re exempt

[Gamma Emerald]

Hrrrrng mafia is suffering

[Gamma Emerald]

That actually has good syllability when compared to the original line lol

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: aristeia
I feel like with the fact the T3 kill implicates her I’m gonna keep mentally railroading back in this direction

[Gamma Emerald]

Maybe you didn’t, maybe Datisi is the neighbor traitor and you shot the BP traitor

[Gamma Emerald]

Why was T3 killed to frame you then?

[Gamma Emerald]

Wait no what
Never mind I confused vulture for you

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: chaosomega
If this flips scum Koba goes next no questions asked

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: chaosomega
If this flips scum Koba goes next no questions asked

you dont think im scum - you just want me to be scum. Which is a level 0 play

I want you to be scum because there's so much evidence pointing towards you

[Gamma Emerald]

Math these last few pages feels like scum who is mad at a townsided set up, and then felt like he was in auto lose and is madly trying to widen the elim pool - see his interactions with Dats.

So I think that the team is either Math-Not_Mafia Or Chaos-Koba

Koba is never shot before chaos, so I am down for any of [math, Not_Mafia, chaos]

Titus, I would like to kill chaos, because he was been my top scum read all game x.x

But, if you would prefer one of the others, you can count yourself as a double voter with my vote

ngl this sounds like a reasonable assessment of the game

@datisi

where are you inclined to go in this pool?

[Gamma Emerald]

If you flip scum, that means that if you think I'm scum

wut?
luke probably shouldn't be "thinking" you're either alignment if he's scum

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: chaosomega
If this flips scum Koba goes next no questions asked

you dont think im scum - you just want me to be scum. Which is a level 0 play

I want you to be scum because there's so much evidence pointing towards you

stay mad

If you're scum this game you owe me a massive apology

[Gamma Emerald]

you better not be
because if you are you manipulated the fuck out of me this game in a way that goes beyond gameplay and into personal territory by assailing my emotions and then using chaos to "lock" yourself as town so you could talk down to me like you've been doing.
Do you think ND39 would be okay with you treating her like you've treated me this game?

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: not_mafia

[Gamma Emerald]

tbh until I see a reason not to I'm just going to straight up ignore koba

[Gamma Emerald]

Was it meant to be funny? I don’t think it succeeded if so

[Gamma Emerald]

I wish there was a good image to convey the face I'm making rn

[Gamma Emerald]

what ari is saying feels sensible but when she said "you don't have a gun" that part just hit a weird note in my brain

[Gamma Emerald]

what is this delusional terminology meme datisi

[Gamma Emerald]

can I be added to the mafia meme mailing list? If this is over discord at least

[Gamma Emerald]

sweetness

[Gamma Emerald]

Where do you get your gifs?

I did a google image search for “happy anime gifs” and it returned a lot of the gifs I’ve seen Aristeia use

[Gamma Emerald]

that's also some very weird power in that case

[Gamma Emerald]

im gay

same

same

[Gamma Emerald]

bp neighbourizer traitor

pretty sure neighborized players still flip non-neighbor

[Gamma Emerald]

actually with how much nonsense is going on this game that might not be right

[Gamma Emerald]

neighbourized players do flip non-neighbour

but neighbourizer by itself counts as having a pt and i'm brainstorming, it's very likely not the scenario anyway

but BP traitor wouldn't get shot if scum knew about them

[Gamma Emerald]

bp neighbourizer traitor

pretty sure neighborized players still flip non-neighbor

okay I just confirmed this is the case

[Gamma Emerald]

If scum knew about the traffic analyst, bussing Umlaut makes sense.

hmmm I'm feeling something here, talk about this some more

[Gamma Emerald]

I think if there is a scum neighborizer it would make more sense for the traitor to be looking for its scum team rather than the scum team to be looking for its traitor.

For example;

Bulletproof Neighborizer Traitor + 2 Mafia Neighbors.

that would be possible
though jsyk in normals traitors are always informed of their partners

[Gamma Emerald]

chaos didn't assume anything, he claimed informed
if another scum-with-a-gun flips chaos is confirmed scum

[Gamma Emerald]

I can't check Chaos, I specified this before, I was only two shot

[Gamma Emerald]

but datisi + NM should be enough to at least mostly solve the setup

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Aristeia

[Gamma Emerald]

titus I think you got this so just lmk what the plan is when it's figured out
also I think I'm actually starting to enjoy being in this game again, just a smidge

[Gamma Emerald]

if NM agrees to investigate Chaos

I want to eliminate chaos

...so if we don't do that today are you checking him?

[Gamma Emerald]

it's at least more information

[Gamma Emerald]

tbh I'm kinda just imagining how much NM must be suffering because he hates neighborhood spec

[Gamma Emerald]

even if we entertain a neighborizer -> umlaut went down due to a supposed guilty, which ended up being a *gun* guilty and thus would cause scum to holster any neighborizer ability because thats whats first on your mind based on the setup provided.

datisi also had a TA guilty

[Gamma Emerald]

[Gamma Emerald]

seems sensible

[Gamma Emerald]

yeah
if we can figure out our plan to solve the mech game then there's not much reason to prolong the day

[Gamma Emerald]

we're trying to figure out where they're not working

[Gamma Emerald]

I feel like if we’re looking at this from a “what would be the least overpowered” my role makes a lot of sense given how gated I am

[Gamma Emerald]

If Chaos is town then only one scum has a gun which means max one scum in you and Gamma.
So you or Gamma have to be scum for power balance.

I would start there and find which.

I investigative as with gun already without supposing I'm scum because of being a cop-like
if chaos is town I have to be town because umlaut flipped scum-with-a-gun

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm really feeling a connection with this song rn because of this game
(hint: if I'm feeling a connection to this song, it means BAD THINGS)

[Gamma Emerald]

I think normal traitors don't endgame.

that is correct

[Gamma Emerald]

1 clear via titus blocking my action and being loyal actually

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm really feeling a connection with this song rn because of this game
(hint: if I'm feeling a connection to this song, it means BAD THINGS)

i was watching ace attorney videos today and

Spoiler: SoJ ending spoiler

breaking my personal oath to say you're probably the number one reason I'm feeling that song rn
that's the song I associate with the many-faced demon and my struggle to get over my feelings of failure regarding that person. My emotions are a sacred instrument, and to play them likely some fool bard is to turn oneself into a demon.

[Gamma Emerald]

then I'm conftown from being roleblocked by scum?

[Gamma Emerald]

then I'm conftown from being roleblocked by scum?

She’s saying Titus isn’t confirmed town
But she’s confirmed town on account of 1 scum from Chaos

In the hypothetical scenario that you outlined we don't know if Chaos will flip with the informed info.

And also there isn't a scum flip already so even if we did have the info Titus could still be a scum roleblocker.

informed does not flip with info, but in the case of town informed the informed flip is enough to verify whatever information they claimed

[Gamma Emerald]

It’s a normal
If Chaos is town and informed
He must flip Informed gunsmith

ok but if he doesnt claim his information before the scum shoot him how would we know what he is informed of?

That’s why I said logical leap to what he’s informed of.
Gunsmith >> Guns
3 guns useless >> informed of 2 or less
3 on open unneeded if only 2
Informed of one gun
Checkmate

it could also be "x players in this game have guns TOTAL"
pretty sure that was in a gypyx game once

[Gamma Emerald]

anyways math, who is scum due to dayplay

I don’t care.
If elim Chaos I win no matter what being town

[Gamma Emerald]

koba making some sense with 3719 tho

[Gamma Emerald]

I am willing to vote Chaos if NM somehow flips town because of the investigative PRs:


Datisi is town to me because he's adorbs and Titus protected him.
Gamma is town because Chaos said so.
I do think 4 investigative PRs is a bit much so it's either Chaos or NM and NM is just way shadier than Chaos on play?

NM has an action tonight that might be useful
chaos has literally expended his entire ability to catch scum now that umlaut has been eliminated
so off utility I'd prefer to let NM live another cycle

[Gamma Emerald]

"the game is broken, lets kill the person who helped bury a scum and is generally towny"

Yes because that’s my scum meta so scum are doing it

who is scum doing that here?

[Gamma Emerald]

"the game is broken, lets kill the person who helped bury a scum and is generally towny"

Yes because that’s my scum meta so scum are doing it

who is scum doing that here?

PR claims
Fake a result
Get townread
Coast

what?????

[Gamma Emerald]

NM is SRing chaos, I think he's aware that we're trying to get him to target there
imo he doesn't have to acknowledge to be aware

[Gamma Emerald]

ffs

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: mathblade

[Gamma Emerald]

uhhhh my vote was hammer.

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm upset myself, if I was fully aware I would've done the cobra kai thing

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm gonna feel mildly silly if math flips scum because that would make the night plan functionally useless
although I think there's one thing that could be done

[Gamma Emerald]

if math flips scum I think some cattle herding should be done

[Gamma Emerald]

Oh nah I am vengeful Townie. Taking out either Titus or Chaos. JK maybe?

wut
is that even normal?

[Gamma Emerald]

241
whitney

[Gamma Emerald]

if real pls target chaos, not titus

[Gamma Emerald]

Does anyone think Flubber is townie?

I could do a trustfall without much trouble, but I wouldn't call them townie. I don't think hammering early is a good idea though.

Was this really traitor Seanzie trying to tell scum flubber that they were the traitor?

perhaps
I think something is being lost in translation

[Gamma Emerald]

Chaos can't communicate.

This means if NM is town Titus didn’t get what I was putting down ;-;

[Gamma Emerald]

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VOTE: Not_Mafia
Bad play dude

[Gamma Emerald]

Also Chaos is town from how hard Math was pushing for Chaos lim

[Gamma Emerald]

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VOTE: Not_Mafia
Bad play dude

Why? And bad play or scum

Both

[Gamma Emerald]

I literally voted NM because he redid the read list shtick he did in the newbie we were scum together in

[Gamma Emerald]

Ohhh

[Gamma Emerald]

Lovers aren’t even normal KEKW

[Gamma Emerald]

I think a lot will be surprising about my Day 1 play for certain players. Obviously now with my postgame demeanor I was not at all upset Day 1-just incredibly bored/disinterested as I think the game only became exciting Day 2-but I was very intentional about keeping Pooky in a sort of Twilight Zone, and a lot around Datisi was funny because he plays with his cards close to chest. I felt like I did the right small motions but out of order!

A bit of time was spent on keeping Vulture out of the game entirely, and everything Lukewarm picked up on with me was intentional but he was NOT meant to connect it that early and I was deeply impressed. It was really meant to be a slow burn.

I felt bad for Alchemist but obviously it was an NAI replaceout. I just had the chance to take a 3/4 week road trip and here I am.

Ari's not pooky lol I don't know why people say this. I know who it is but she's not pooky lol

I was thinking Sakura Hana but I have a different idea now

[Gamma Emerald]

It was very unfortunate you had to rep out Prism, and probably the biggest stroke of luck for this town.


Mathblade you are adoooorbs <3


Sorry for those terrible reads @Alch/Meg


Thanks for Modding Tris/Ythan! This game had some very fun moments! I shall cherish them

Spoiler: For Datisi

It was such a joy to dance with you again Datisi

Thank you for being so kind and dashing.

oh hm

[Gamma Emerald]

If I knew more about certain dances that would make more sense
I’m still trying to figure out who L9 was from the first anon dance because I’m interested in maybe doing a Celeste-themed hydra with them

[Gamma Emerald]

Atp I’m kinda at an “all’s well that ends well” perspective for how I view Koba’s play of outing the PRs, and I’ve already gone over the salient points of the takeaway I wanted in future games during this game

[Gamma Emerald]

Atp I’m kinda at an “all’s well that ends well” perspective for how I view Koba’s play of outing the PRs, and I’ve already gone over the salient points of the takeaway I wanted in future games during this game

I thought you were in the single best position to nail my slot as scum and was very disappointed that you did not. I did not expect the connection in Lukewarm's 638 to happen so quickly, and that post by Lukewarm was a heavensent gift for you. It should have raised severe redflags for you that I did not immediately dive into your ISO given my 4+ year track record of reading you correctly. I miscalculated and should have been immediately punished for it. Leverage that track record against me and force me to make a difficult decision if I am scum; townread you, or go against that long track record?-and box myself in. Instead it passed with zero notice, and at that point I really started being lazy/disinterested.

GG.

I found this game deeply unpleasant, so I left. But it was nice spectating it.

While I intentionally contributed to this, I do recognize that it is questionable to do so. On a personal level you have my sympathy, even if I am more ruthless in-game.

I was mostly listening to Titus' read on Flubber
but yeah I think a lot of connections were missed this game and we got lucky to win how we did
as you can see in my notes PT I was way on the wrong track coming into D4

[Gamma Emerald]

it's also been a little while since I rolled scum with or against you iirc, I think the last time was Sakura Wars which was like early 2017

[Gamma Emerald]

you rolled scum with or against me*

[Gamma Emerald]

eh you seemed a little compromised by virtue of your situation in the game so I don't think I could have read you well if I tried
I also was just completely off my game as previously noted