Mystery Mafia 2- Game Over! But who won!?

[Korts]

yo

I'm about halfway through reading, will post comments when I actually get to read living players' posts.

[Korts]

Sorry, still on page 20. What strikes me as odd is the certainty with which everyone stated that it must be a wolf who killed DGB and Dasquian, and the fact that no-one even considered that "Insane Day Cop" was just a rolename for pop and he wasn't, in fact, insane. But as far as I'm aware that's far from being a relevant topic by now, so I'm reading on.

[Korts]

Well, I wouldn't put it past BM. And it wouldn't throw the whole game off, because follow the cop is a stupid game, and even more so is follow the

dead

cop.

[Korts]

It was an aside comment.

[Korts]

I agree with forbiddansarian2. One-shot claim, otherwise no.

[Korts]

Sorry about the lag, I'm still on bottom of page 20, but so far my top suspects are elvis and Lawrencelot of those alive. I don't understand this drunk mechanic/hypodoc thing, though, so I'm not comfortable voting yet.

[Korts]

To Lawrence, with <3

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bookmaker

Love,

Your iddle Korts

[Korts]

Vote: Lawrencelot

Caught up with the reading during the night phase. It's clear that he is the most likely stabber, considering that the stabbings started Day 3, and there was a no kill when he was drunk.

The BionichChop kill fits the profile, too; he pushed the Lawrencelot case pretty hard.

[Korts]

I'm thinking a distorter may be a redirector of some kind.

[Korts]

Do we have any chance until post-game reveals?

[Korts]

I'm actually completely sure Lawrence is scum atm.

[Korts]

Lawrence: is there some part of your role that you haven't yet told us?

[Korts]

Were you actually told "You have been RBed"?

I assume choosing who to aim his copy at seems to require being told.

[Korts]

Ok, that's reasonable.

[Korts]

I don't understand the possible motivation of you roleclaiming, elvis, since, considering the fact that from the time you joined, stabbing has been the prominent MO for the single kill, and that kill wasn't blocked last night, you aren't likely to have tried to hurt the town if roleblocked.

If Lawrence turns up town (not happening IMO) he can shoot Landlord, and we can dispose of the liability of whether he's a real player (I think he actually is a player, considering he can vote, but his contribution in that case has even been sub-k7).

[Korts]

Were you roleblocked, then?

[Korts]

Yes, what happens when a cop targets me. But I do not know what happens to the cop in that case.

Please elaborate on this. For now, it looks like you're pre-emptively trying to justify any guilty result on you.

[Korts]

Lawrence, to be honest, I believe your roleclaim less and less. Thinking this blocking story through, it doesn't make much sense for you to be notified of anything. The flipside is, of course, why would you claim to have been blocked, then, but you may not have thought the implications through properly, plus it would make sense if you didn't want to trip up in case someone did target you with an ability and you failed to claim a related action on your part to claim to have been blocked.

So I advocate a hammer.

[Korts]

Vote: Lawrencelot

Still of the same opinion.

[Korts]

====[]

plz?

[Korts]

Oh yeah

we need two votes now

Lawrence, are you willing to self-hammer, should it come to it? It would be the most pro-town given the circumstances.

[Korts]

Okay, I'd like Surye and Landlord to give a summary of their thoughts; I'll go back and do a reread of living players and dead scum and post mine.

[Korts]

Personally I would say the evidence points to korts, what with the pattern of two scum per join in block and the fact someone died of new causes last night and he is the most recent player. Not damning, but a good starting place.

But I was the only one to join when I joined, therefore nothing points to me being scum if you apply your pattern of two scum per join in block. You are also excluding of one-shot vig or vig having withheld their fire. Considering the MO, I'd say that another possibility is that k7 had a timer on him i.e. he had some win condition that he had to fulfill before N8 or something.

(also, did any of you even notice that k7 was in the game?)

I'm considering Surye and Landlord as scum; elvis is out of the question because of forbiddan's role as mason and everyone else from that wave of players being dead and not being the other half; Korlash is also on the definite pro-town list.

[Korts]

First and foremost, I feel you've projected nothing but pro-town intentions. [/bullshit]

Considering that your wave of players already has two scum, and the remaining player of that wave is you alone, I discounted you as a likely candidate.

Secondly, I never said there are two scum left.

Fourthly. Naturally, there's still a scum. I don't see how that should mean that any single kill made during the night should automatically be associated with scum. The MO says otherwise IMIO.

About k7, I honestly was surprised. He only had two posts overall, when I went back and checked; one checking in, and one agreeing with forb and me.

[Korts]

Sigh. Fine. Massclaim. However, I'm not sure anymore whether I trust Korlash's judgement.

[Korts]

In case you are forgetting Surye was in my group.

Oh yes. My mistake. On the other hand, that was just a contrived reason to justify my lack of suspicion you, anyway.

Fact is, I am a cop. I have an innocent on you. I also had a guilty on Lawrence, which, considering his role, means that I'm either paranoid (disproved by the innocent on you) or I'm insane. The second choice means you are scum. The third choice would be that Lawrence was godfather only in rolename, and didn't actually turn innocent in a sane cop's investigation. This third choice is highly unlikely.

After a day's thought on this, I'm fairly confident to do the following:

vote: Korlash

[Korts]

Because at that point I had only registered the "innocent". I only realized Lawrence as Godfather when I went back to check things.

[Korts]

I'm not sure if after all this a massclaim is still the way to go. There might be protection to be had if Korlash isn't the last scum (or, alternately, isn't scum at all) and I don't want that outed. Let's leave the WIFOM-factor in for the scum NK choice (if any).

[Korts]

Ok, well, I now know that elvis is town.

[Korts]

Okay. I don't know if iceman is actually a player who isn't on the playerlist, but if the hammer's valid, bah go town etc.

Otherwise, one of you raised the point of two sane and one insane cop already having been in the game. Korlash's raised point of a cop being far less useful when introduced Day 6 or whichever day I came into play. I think the second point answers the first pretty well.

The only answer I can think up to this situation (the mason one) is that Surye and Korlash are scumbuddies confirming each other while doing sick things with forbiddan's corpse (you necrophiliac bastards). Of course, it may be that Lawrence wasn't actually godfather, only in his name, but that'd be an evil, evil stunt from any mod.

I don't blame elvis if she wants to hammer. But it's a very probable town loss if she does.

[Korts]

Oh yeah. If iceman's Landlord, bah go town all over again.

[Korts]

Yes becuase me and Surye being scum masons with Forbiddan is so much more likely then you getting a guilty on the godfather.

Forbiddan never implied you were masons together; and there was only one single hint in your posts that could be taken as a breadcrumb of a masonship.

Elvis has already voted you. In fact so far I am the only one not to.

Oh well, then I especially don't blame you if you do, since the most likely scenario in the knowledge of my role is that you're scum...

[Korts]

I checked with BM, and I'd get the original alignment of alignment-inverters if I was insane. i.e. a guilty on a GF or an innocent on a miller. So yeah, possible. Of course, I could also be random, but that's really hardcore bastardmodding and I'd put that past BM.

[Korts]

Sigh. I get your point, Korlash, but I don't really have a lot of other options given the circumstances.

[Korts]

Besides I know I have plenty of breadcrumbs of masonship with surye that add up. And while they don't prove we aren't scum buddies they do prove i have been crumbign my partnerships.

Actually, I just checked your posts and the only mention of Surye before today in your posts is in a quote of BionicChop calling out you, Surye and k7 as lurkers, to which you reply "I think I'm posting just fine... Now K7 on the other hand... (although he always does that)". I guess you either lied about dropping hints as to the connection to Surye, or... Well, you lied.

[Korts]

Sigh.

Or is this game just a ploy to screw town as hard as possible?

Very probably.

[Korts]

You could comment on how likely it is two millers joined at the same time. I still think that is a legitimate question and line of thought to process.

That's actually a valid point and I would consider it if I didn't have a result on you that very strongly indicates you being scum. It's not very likely, no. But on the other hand, I'm the fourth cop in the game.

The nameclaim is actually a bit fishy, though. I don't really gather how a Dalek could be part of a town unless the whole town is Dalek. And I know I'm not (lemme check--no, no metal shell, no toilet pump arms, although my voice is a bit rusty lately)

[Korts]

The fact that you never expressed suspicion on Surye only shows a connection, but doesn't actually point towards you two being

masons

per se. So yeah. You can still be scum with that kind of evidence.

well I do know BM is a fan of the Doctor as he is the one who first got me hooked. So putting a Dalek in a game is not unlikely. (Especially as he hs roles like "screwball", "Tornado", "JFK", "Radiation-Suit Salesman"... etc...) I just don't see him making the role town.

Yeah. My point was exactly yours. I'm not doubting whether a role like that would be in the game, I'm just fairly sure it doesn't fit the general profile of a town role. And even if it is a town role, miller is not the best you can do with it [/setup speculation]

4th cop, 2nd insane cop, joined along with "4 scum" which you would have gotten an innocent result on all 4, with 2 millers you would have gotten an innocent on joining before you as well. Did I miss anything?

Nope. Your point? There have been enough oddities in this game.

[Korts]

EBWOP:

I checked with BM, and I'd get the original alignment of alignment-inverters if I was insane. i.e. a guilty on a GF or an innocent on a miller. So yeah, possible. Of course, I could also be random, but that's really hardcore bastardmodding and I'd put that past BM.

When exactly did you "check" with BM?

Sent the PM: Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:34 pm

Recieved an answer: Wed Nov 19, 2008 9:42 am

[Korts]

Oh yeah, that's GMT +1

[Korts]

The nameclaim is actually a bit fishy, though. I don't really gather how a Dalek could be part of a town unless the whole town is Dalek. And I know I'm not (lemme check--no, no metal shell, no toilet pump arms, although my voice is a bit rusty lately)

Don't you remember when I pushed to lynch lawrence, saying him or me had ot be scum?

No reason for me to do that if I was scum. If he was my buddy, no reason for me to throw him under the bus when nobody wanted him dead. If I was on another scum team, I wouldn't know HE was scum, so I wouldn't want to go into a "him or me" situation when I'm scum.

Something to consider, although it does seem a bit like circular logic to me.

[Korts]

Ah yes. The problem with this is that you had a pretty solid motive to bus Lawrence if you were his scumbuddy; since by that point it was clear that as far as speculations were going, only one scum was suspected to be in the players who joined in that batch and were still alive, bussing Lawrence would semi-clear you.

Even so, a Korlash-Surye pairing is much more likely to me right now.

[Korts]

Even so, a Korlash-Surye pairing is much more likely to me right now.

You know if you wern't pushing this I would have no doubt you were telling the truth. But the fact you seem so intent on pushing that a mason group of 3 had 2 scum in it seems like flailing around to me.

Flailing around? I'm pushing the only scenario that adequately explains my predicament. I don't know how else I'd get a guilty on a GF but that I'm insane, and if I'm insane with an innocent on you, you're scum. With the mason claim, you've also dragged Surye into this. What choice do you think I have other than to push this?

[Korts]

Also I have been thinking about how K7 died. When Farside and Forbiddan were killed they had "??" next to their death, K7 did as well. Seeing as how The day kills were player induced, the "?" next to K7 seems to indicate the same. Perhaps poinsoning?

I think the most likely explanation of farside and forbiddan's death was k7, due to the flavor being a storm and his rolename being Tornado. And in that case, I don't see him NK-ing himself. Plus farside and forbiddan's deaths were

day

actions, while k7 was NK'ed.

Who's the one flailing exactly?

[Korts]

I mean you keep pushing it, but you don't seem to want to try and back it up...

I don't have anything other than my results to back it up with. Do you see any other options for me than to apply pressure to you?

In converted him to Mason, so really I dragged him into it. He just claimed first. A fake claim is often met with these kind of inconsistancies, this is why we make people claim.

I think we need to lynch Korts. This is text book fakeclaim justifications.

If you are scum, it's Korlash who dragged you into it. Obviously you'd stick to your story once you made it. Also, how is sticking to the one story that fits "textbook fakeclaim justification"?

[Korts]

OK hopefully that's still only L-1... I'm willing to lynch Landlord to save my hide.

[Korts]

I'm not trying to say they were done by the same person... simply that BM's modding style of "?" are proven to be tagged to player kills. So I think it is possible K7 was player killed, not timer killed.

Fair enough. On the other hand, the kill MO was natural causes. That implies timer to me.

[Korts]

Your investigations don't line up with reality, so you try and justify it with wild stories.

Take a moment to actually

think

. What motivation, for fuckssake, would I have to claim a guilty on Lawrence

after

he turned GF?

[Korts]

Your investigations don't line up with reality, so you try and justify it with wild stories.

Take a moment to actually

think

. What motivation, for fuckssake, would I have to claim a guilty on Lawrence

after

he turned GF?

No need to get angry. To add believability. Easy.

arg. I lol'd, after I'd nearly had a stroke.

unvote, vote: Landlord

There. I can compromise.

[Korts]

You could speculate with me. As Pachino said in 88 min, you don't have to be right as long as you are convinsing... so get convinsing...

I don't see how "Korlash and Surye faking a masonship by necroing forbiddan" isn't speculation enough.

[Korts]

I'm not. Korts' claim is in direct contradiction to Korlash and my role, with no explaination. All it comes down to is elvis seeing and believing this.

It's that's simple.

Yeah. And your claim is in direct contradiction to

my

results and what I deduced from the result on Lawrence.

[Korts]

BTW I'm enjoying the awesome clusterfuck of simul-posting this game's experiencing

[Korts]

No, you've got it pretty much down, elvis.

[Korts]

Do you feel you'll change your opinion when you sober up?

[Korts]

I'll owe you a "told you so" after the reveal, just sayin'

Still, enjoyed the hopeless argument

Nighty night

[Korts]

nah

I'd have hammered myself if I weren't myself, probably, though

[Korts]

I was replying to Surye btw

But you're right, elvis, it's probably time to congratulate Korlash and Surye. Korlash in particular, you were pretty awesome with that masonizer claim for Surye.

Who else were in your faction?

[Korts]

I'm not lying either, so I'm not sure what's happening...

[Korts]

I'm legit, too, although I'm legit with a rope around my neck...

This game is a mindfuck.

[Korts]

Yeah. You guys will be guessing until BM comes in

Still, seeing as how nothing depends on it now, I guess I can confess...



























I'm the (fourth) cop.

[Korts]

Woo yay town win! Although winning with a modkill ruins it a little. And winning by me getting lynched at the end also. I guess I'm happy though that I was lynched and not Korlash like I wanted, because that would've caused my mislynch the next day and would've caused the town to lose.

[Korts]

Yup, he was sane. The funny thing was, his cop result on Lawrence was screwed up by the Distorter, so he ended up getting a guilty on the investigation immune godfather, which confused him a bit. lol

Yeah, that messed with my head a little. Very nice game, though, BM, I enjoyed it very much. Pretty mindfucking, and possibly bastardesque, but definitely a fun ride all the way through

But who was the role who sloppily ate DGB and dismembered Dasquian? I assume those two kills were done by the same player.

[Korts]

I was Jesus. I was never told that I was a day insane cop.

You weren't an insane day-cop. You were indeed Jesus. If you had been lynched instead of NKed, a vanilla townie would have become a Mafia Traitor (the Ante-Christ). You were killed and your role reveal was chosen by the SCREWBALL -DGB.

BM

Wow, that's an evil stunt to pull... BM, I'm proud of you.

[Korts]

How, though? Did I drop any obvious cop-tells or something?

[Korts]

My first game as scum and I get to join with all my partners already dead + I get killed by other scum group.

Hehheh. I think you did a very nice job, though. I probably wouldn't have fingered you as likely scum at that point.

[Korts]

I see this happen all over the site. He's probably got the best survival record of anyone on MS this year!

BM

Well, he doesn't say anything to incriminate himself, that's sure.

[Korts]

Good game. And thanks Iceman for helping me survive so long. For the record, me and farside were mafia with Landlord, but we also thought he was BM.

Mod: did Landlord join the mafia because I targeted him with alcohol?

Nope, that was again coincidence. After the Pub-Phase, Landlord was given the choice of joining your Mafia group or the Town.

Speaking of which, i should probably colour co-ordinate the OP to show different scumgroups.

BM

So Landlord knew he was giving the most money to the two scum

and

he could choose to be town? Isn't that a bit broken?

[Korts]

no-one even considered that "Insane Day Cop" was just a rolename for pop and he wasn't, in fact, insane.

I would imagine there are certain standards which a moderator is not going to tinker with. Insane Cop as a standard role name for an actual Insane Cop really can't be messed with or it would throw the whole game off.

This quote makes me lol

[Korts]

Yes someone needs to nomintae me for a scummy

It's all nice and dandy in the end, but I don't think your playstyle should be rewarded...