TM 2023 | Mini Normal | Endgame

[xofelf]

VOTE: DV My fox avatar is better.

Sidenote, this is a *still* awake xof. Sleep will be happening soon so, I'll see y'all late this afternoon.

[xofelf]

I am awake again. And I've skim-read, will vibe check once the caffeine kicks in.

While it's NAI in every way, I thought Shirou's entrance was adorable and I appreciate the effort put in.

Ydrasse just feels like Ydrasse. I dunno if I'm happy to see her cuz we're friends or she's town. I think it could be both.

Aisa also hits the smiley places. Good vibes.

I don't think DGB not posting means anything yet. It's possible she hasn't been around yet to know the game started.*but* I have played with her probably more than most people here, so I feel confident that whatever her entrance is, she's somebody I can actually *read* and not just vibesfeel.

[xofelf]

I don't think DGB not posting means anything yet. It's possible she hasn't been around yet to know the game started.*but* I have played with her probably more than most people here, so I feel confident that whatever her entrance is, she's somebody I can actually *read* and not just vibesfeel.

I'm happy you're here then, look forward to see how the game progresses.

To be clear, I meant out of the people in the playerlist that I've played with, I've played more games with DGB. Not that I've played more games with DGB than other players have. But thanks <3

DV is doing DV town things methinks. His posts so far remind me of how he was in our last Team Mafia game, very poking hard at things/holding a magnifying glass up to them to see how reactions go or if he gets the answers from people that he's hoping for. It could be NAI though as I don't recall seeing a DV scum game, but there's a something when DV is being a sneakysneak that he's missing in his vibes so far.

Unvote

P-edit:

(also i missed saying it but hi xof!)

Hi Ydrasse <3

[xofelf]

In post 152, DkKoba wrote:
In post 144, DeasVail wrote:
I think xofelf, mala, aisa and ydrasse are town
that seems like a very arbitrary list of 4 - can you ellaborate?
xofelf - I don't thiiink I've played with xof as scum? But this sounds like xof-town. The initial vote on me had the right level of spunk, and the subtle confidence in being able to read DGB were good signs imo.

Iirc, nobody here *has*. I statistically roll town, especially VT, at an alarmingly high rate. The only time I can remember rolling scum was when i was part of a hydra with Pine in Alisae's Flying Dutchman, and I was only in the hydra with Pine because he usually does poorly day 1, and I tend to do less good in days past day 1 and need somebody to bounce thoughts off of.

[xofelf]

also they might have just wanted to be here for the start and then slept

That's the one. My fuckery of a sleep schedule has caused me many a trouble in games. I also wanted to put it in my posts for easier access when I woke up. And it keeps me accountable to say in thread if I'm gonna do something like show up or specific investigation of people cuz I'm forced to do the hard things because I've told other people who can then *also* bug me about it if I don't.

Stating intent to give vibeslist when brain can do the long words.

[xofelf]

Titus says Mala town, which I wasn't quite sure on, but given mastina's responses it makes Mala's tone feel more genuine to me, so I believe Titus' read on her. I want to confer with my team first on whether I think Mala's read on mastina is right, cuz I was reminded of something relevant but need to find it.

I know I do a lot of noncommital vague word salad at times, but I can't parse what Arko's 201 is trying to say. Think you could give the specific posts and people you're talking about?

[xofelf]

*but even I can't parse

[xofelf]

Okay, that helps a little, thanks Arko.

But also, idk if it's just you seem to be going about how you think about people and share thoughts in much the same way I tend to, but I think I like what you've said so far. I literally just did something similar to your thoughts bowl in Election that Shea just ran.

[xofelf]

DGB! Been waiting for your presence

[xofelf]

But there is this one thing that bugs me:
I feel like the (look like I have thoughts) to (thoughts) ratio in her ISO is quite high. Mostly because (look like I have thoughts) is so high. She has a supremely easy to follow ISO at the moment because every little action and implication is made explicit. This is pro-town but perhaps something scum are even more incentivised to do than town?

Yeah, see that's the thing I'm also keeping my eye out on. Cuz I remember from the Team Mafia the ratio of bits and looking like thoughts was much much higher when she was scum. But she's not doing the other thing I've been keeping an eye out for, which is like overly defending somebody in a way that looks closer to buddying. But she hasn't really done that where I feel actively concerned, so i'd put her slightly higher than null. Titus also said gun to her head, she'd say Ydra town and I'm inclined to believe her.

DGB's entrance is what I was hoping to see from her.

[xofelf]

(and that xofelf is kind of prodge-prone in general, sorry xoffy)

No it's pretty true. I tend to get overwhelmed by reading up AND posting in the same day if I've got more than like 5 pages to read. I can read thread with very little brain effort, but analysis/vibechecking takes a very specific amount of energy that doesn't always come around. And since I don't often realize it's been how many days since I last posted, I get prodded more than I mean to be.

[xofelf]

Vibeslist(no particular order):
Ausuka - idk what a Ausuka scum game looks like, or if I do it didn't stick in my head enough. But I feel good about her, nothing has made me wrinkle my nose.

Aisa - it's funny, i have a strong good feel about her but to make my vibecheck easier, i iso'd her and she has so many less posts than I thought she does. But both Titus and wgeurts think she's town, so that doesn't bother me so much.

DV - This is the good DV posting. If he didn't have some longer ones clarifying what led him to vote the way he has, I'd be much more concerned. It feels a specific kind of way when DV is against you in something(of which I have *much* experience xD), and this ain't that.

Arko - i'd like to see more from Arko. i think they think much in the same way I do when it comes to looking at people, but i'm gonna need more. There were a few things that made me wrinkle my nose, but not so much i need to yeet this into a firepit. So nullish.

DGB - she did a lot with her window of time here, i like this DGB. from what I remember in Ladies Night 3, there's an aggressiveness and cockiness from scum!DGB that I'm just not seeing here. This is subject to change though.

depends how often she pops back in saying she's sorry she forgot about the game

.

IVD - This is a weird slot. like not bad, but.. there's a couple of times where in a post the tone shifts in a way that doesn't quite feel right. Not that it's fabricated or anything, just.. unless they respond in realtime as they read through a post, i wouldn't think tone would shift halfway through a post rather than being the same tone throughout? I need more from him, null to nosewrinkly.

mastina - girl, as a person i'm fond of you, as a player reading through you is always the hardest my eyes glaze over halfway through a paragraph. but that's on me more than it's on you. Actually though, other than your endless links post which feels like drowning in homework, your posts aren't that bad this game. I do have a question for you though. When Mala brought up that you do mason-claiming as a bad thing, it reminded me of something I had seen in a game ages and ages ago. So I was wondering if you could tell me which game this post from Mainstream Mafia II is referencing and whether it's worth considering as part of your mason meta discussion. Otherwise, i think you're fine.

Ydrasse - I touched on this a bit, I like this Ydra. There's things I'm gonna watch out for if I need to re-evaluate, but this feels like real Ydra, even with her bits, rather than performance Ydra, even with her content posts.

Mala - The first few posts seemed fine, but there's a stronger aggressive presence here than i expect to see from Mala at all. It's probably just frustration and my nosewrinkle is at the intensity of the posts, it just seemed not like the kind of stance Mala would have. That being said, her reasonings in the posts are pretty logical and understandable so this is probably town with strong no bullshit tolerance. There were posts since I started this post, and the back and forth with Shirou definitely is some understandable anger.

Koba - idk what to do with koba. I think they're good? but they have this way of putting me on my guard with how they post. It's like peak fite me energy. Which isn't really AI, but it does influence some of how I see their posts. That being said, I see what they're doing as trying to sort people which is a good thing.

Kowahbunga - whomst???? We've got one post from this guy and it's just "oh, there's 10 pages already. this is a tomorrow problem". And I don't love that at all, even with mentioning the vla. Idk, I'm waiting for him to give us anything. But the bad pool currently has your name on it.

Shirou - The rp is cute and kinda funny. Up until recently, I don't get why so much attention towards Mala in that way. Like... it feels like purposefully getting her riled up again which I don't see how that helps at all? At least not with Mala specifically. There's other players here that you'd learn something from if you approached them that way, but I don't think Mala is one. I could also like the RP enough that I don't look at you closer which worries me about you. But you're probably good.

I'll organize into town pool, null puddle, and nosewrinkles later if anybody needs me to. But like... later, been at this for an hour and body pains are demanding attention.

[xofelf]

In post 306, xofelf wrote:
this is a tomorrow problem
When you've been out of town and it's 230am before you had a chance to look at this thread, yeah it's a tomorrow problem. Well technically a today problem but an after I get some sleep problem for sure.

Ah okay, I didn't notice what time it was posted, completely valid then. My apologies.

[xofelf]

As for xo:
I can be notably aggressive in games. I can also be notably passive in games. It just depends on how I feel that exact moment.

That's fair, I just didn't recall seeing it before so it took me by surprise.

[xofelf]

I'm sure it's just a style of Shirou's, but personally 5-7 posts in a row *bug* me. I also disagree with the perception of Ydra. Like, I don't think less *twirls hair* posting means anything. In fact if there was more of it, it would feel fabricated cuz she's just not got that same kind of energy here in this game. This feels like the most RL day to day Ydra I've seen in a game, which makes me think she's town and I'd need something really big and egregious to think otherwise. That being said, i don't think Shirou is scum for posting what they have. I follow why they would think what they did, and the reconsidering didn't come across like some fabricated something.

I hate that Italiano post. Like, there's this smug undertone to it. There's always this undertone that doesn't match the words in most of the posts, and it is driving me batshit. Especially when it changes halfway through the post. I also disagree with his teammate's view on DGB. She is very useful while she's alive, especially as town. She's very good at getting specific reactions with things she says and applying pressure that helps sort people. Maybe that doesn't mean anything to you and your team, but it does to me. And at this point yeeting her doesn't actually give any information one way or another. Right now all we have is her post live reacting to Aisa's post, which while I don't agree is scum Aisa, I can follow along with her process there. I'm not interested in a DGB vote until there's some kind of information to gain from doing so if she is town like I think she is.

[xofelf]

Frankly I'm not really feeling this game and have been trying to have fun and trying to connect with this playerlist, but it's just not happening. When everything you post is scumread without any semblance of actual sorting it gets old fast.

There's always this undertone that doesn't match the words in most of the posts, and it is driving me batshit

Don't really know what to say about it. Example(s)?

I've got plans tonight, but yeah, I'll dig through your iso again when i can and give you which posts bugged me the most. Sorry you're not having much fun anything in particular that could help with that aside from the obvious being scumread sucks and is a moodkiller?

[xofelf]

It really sucks when it's from people that haven't played with you and actually know your scumgame or scumrange.

I think you accidentally a word here. Is it more sucky from people who *have* played with you, or haven't and don't know your scum vibes? Which, I would be curious for an example so I can compare.

[xofelf]

@Shirou: Titus says she would like a cookie.

[xofelf]

She's also reading atm for me.

[xofelf]

Titus had the following reads:
null town for DV
koba town
mastina town
IVD on page 6 and 7 she didn't like, probs scum
shirou and IVD possibly scum buds given Shirou's reacting to votes on IVD to counter on that, and then after Mala votes IVD too, chainsawing into her.
DGB also town.

Which largely lines up with some of what i already feel, though i didn't notice Shirou's actions given the volume of posting there.

[xofelf]

For last Ali said for me to tell Titus that I'm not the player "Shiro" (that I think still uses a avi from No Game No Life?) if she's perhaps confusing me.

She did realize like halfway through that she might be confusing you with Shiro but figured you'd clear it up depending on your response.

[xofelf]

I mean, I appreciate that. But I am curious what specifically about that post spoke to you?

Intent to get to that IVD iso as promised either tonight, or first thing after catching up what gets posted from now til I wake up tomorrow.

[xofelf]

Alright, cool, thanks. Just helps to know what I'm doing right, ya know? And gives me a sense of how you think in the process too.

[xofelf]

Disclaimer: I've had about on average 3-4 hours of sleep the past 3 days, so I'm not confident this isn't incoherent. I'll try to clarify where I can if need be.

So I did go back through to see if I could find the things that were bugging me, and it seems they bother me somehow less in iso than they did when i was reading them in real time. Some it was just one post was a harsh brand of sarcasm followed up by a cheery nice post within like minutes of each other. But these were two that stuck out in particular ways:

Just a thought

Why is Italian VD voting Koba and not me?

Why are thinking I should I be voting you?

Just a thought

Why is Italian VD voting Koba and not me?

Inactive vs Active suspect dilemma? Welp, he can reply himself I guess

either way, just want to say Ali has said for the fifth time to vote Kowah because she's townleaning most active players

but as I stand here,

I realize,

that I'm gonna bully her again and say no.

Ahhh, don't answer for me.

VOTE: ItalianoVD

This game is too easy.

Oh dang, was it something I said?

You gotta elaborate on this, cause this is just silly.

This one does the normal tone to something harsher than I'm expecting in response, and it ends really dismissively.

iirc last night pb said that 375 was bad enough that it should be buried now

Explain. In your own words.

Hey Koba I feel like you ask a fair bit of me but when I try to get an idea of where your thoughts are at, I either get a dismissive response or none at all. It feels as if you’re putting on a show for certain slots that you’re relying on townreads from, while ignoring others.

Welcome to the Koba show.

It was intentional - I don't think going back and forth on it is going to be productive. I don't think if you are town there is anything I could ask that would make what you were saying more believable to me at this point. I'd rather just take it into account and see what you do going forward.

Fair. Same for you.

VOTE: italiano pb saw something and now I want to kill this bc I think it's like 99% flipping scum

Last time I checked Koba was playing this game not pink ball.



But since we're talking teammates, Drixx and Cerb told me DGB is useless and should be scumread for existing, and if she is removed from the game and is town there will be no material loss.

Then this one just has this tone of condescension throughout that I don't particularly love. Like, this is

Team

Mafia, why wouldn't you be relying on your team to back you?? That's the whole point???? And it's not like Koba isn't giving their own thoughts and reads and solely playing as a translator for their teams thoughts and reads. Koba is an acquired taste, and none of that flavour is missing in what they post so I don't get why the undertone to this post is so strong.

Also, the AtE didn't work for me. It did hit all the places that would make me feel guilty or bad for unfairly treating somebody and changing my stance because of those feelings. It read as intentionally trying to get those reactions with the word choices, as well as the tone.

While I think I misread some of the tones in things, I still don't feel great about you. I just feel like I'm missing *something* from you, but I'm not quite sure what it is. Maybe it's like the kind of dialogue between players where there's a genuine attempt to make sure both are on the same page in the same way. Maybe I'm just sleep-deprived, but idk your iso seems to have thoughts and opinions that you want other people to have, not like "hey, i'm seeing this, anybody wanna check that and make sure we've got the same idea about this?". It's that mutual cooperation and information exchanging and co-analysis I'm missing I think.

[xofelf]

If Italiano flipped town where would you look next?

I would likely move up my PoE of which next I'd xof but at the same time reeval any townread slots that may have been based on italiano ->It's important to note I read ppl independently, sort by towniness, and then look at plausibility of being teamed.

I'll correct my past self actually

Your xof scumlean is your unique take I feel it's distinctly "original"/novel from you this game so far

Wanna expand on it? I don't think you did in your past posts?

It's really just a lack of any energy that I would describe as towny or any discernable direction of play.
It's not really about what's there It's about what's not there.

I hate to disappoint, but that probably isn't gonna change until we've had some flips. Like, I tend to need some actual confirmable information to have a direction I want to go in. Best I can do is focus on one person at a time to at least see if anything sticks out in a need to yeet immediately type of way. It kinda felt like the game is at a particular stalemate where we're all just waiting for *something* bigger to show up, or maybe that's just a lot of where I'm at personally. I've also been pretty exhausted the past few days so it's not just lack of energy in game as much as it is that's just me right now in RL.

[xofelf]

Oh also,

Unvote

. Thought I already did.

[xofelf]

Oh, it's not hesitant to place a vote on him as much as I was hoping to hear back from him, and *then* I would vote there or if response was good enough and I re-evaluate, find a vote someplace else, possibly Arko. I'm not really a vote hopper, I vote when that's the person I want to yeet outside of RVS, and don't vote too often. I just want a little more beforehand, that's all.

[xofelf]

Xofelf is mainly gut that's why he's a weak scumlean. Reason being I feel like he is in the background looking at everything happen, but not really getting involved unless it's something he feels he needs to get involved in. Kinda like a referee. I've seen scum play like him, but to be honest after reading his ISO again, I didn't really feel like I initially felt, so lol I guess I gotta push him up a bit. Is there like a weak weak or very very weak scumlean color to use.

It's they, thanks.

But also, that's not an unfair characterization of my playstyle. I'm much more observatory than anything else, and I do get scumread for it a lot, but it's never been a correct scumread and it still isn't now.

[xofelf]

It's they, thanks.

Oh, sorry about that.

It's okay, mistakes happen. It's at least the wrong one that makes me laugh more than it hurts.

I'll respond more when I'm not in bed cuz phoneposting sucks but your catchup seems decent, it at least has enough it can be more of a conversation which is what I'd like to have more of.

[xofelf]

Votecount 1.14

Ausuka (4):

ItalianoVD, Shirou, Aisa, DrippingGoofball

ItalianoVD (3):

Ausuka, DeasVail, DkKoba

DkKoba (2):

mastina, Kowahbunga

Shirou (1):

Malakittens

DeasVail (1):

xofelf

Not Voting (2): Arko, Ydrasse

With 13 alive it takes 7 to eliminate.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2023-04-26 08:34:25)

Mod Notes

Hey Penguin, I unvoted as of 754.


My intent today is to try to dig into this body pain and Taskmaster at 4 allow. But it is a bad day on the pain front, so it may be very late before this happens so pain meds have a chance to work.

[xofelf]

Wait... Arko only has 14 posts? I knew it was low, but not like that. he also hasn't posted since Thursday. Feels a little something that in 341 he calls Kowahbunga out for being V/LA but posting elsewhere on site and in that same post promises to come back after doing stuff and we don't see him for 2 days. There's more apologies in this iso than content, which like, i know i can be guilty of sometimes but i find it harder to get away with doing that here in Team Mafia where I have teammates. Like if it's just me, I can justify posting less to the point of prodging most of the time, but my team needs me so here I am. Maybe Arko's team dynamics is different but it feels a type of way.
Gonna poke some at the updated list:

Xof- Felt towny but is just as here as I was 2 hours ago. AKA gone for 2 days and I was sleeping.

Before that post Arko hadn't been on site since post 341 and came back in post 504/623, with big content in 650. I had had 7 post between 341 and 504, a fair bit of few with content so saying I wasn't here at all is just provably incorrect.

Shirou is there I guess. Imma say town but could change easily.

By Shirou is there, is the implication that Shirou doesn't post??? cuz buddy, have i got some news for you. Shirou currently has the most posts with over 200 in this thread, 6 of which were on the page Arko was popping in on as he did his update read. Again, provably false.

The only real content before he gets into the wagons, is the "thoughts" shared from teammates, of which there is one about Koba and nothing else. The rest of the update is just blanket statement of change, but not what prompted the change. But also, there being *little* that changed feels funky.
But the wagon thoughts are just.. not at all looked into.
Mala's wagon has a comment about the amount of votes not really making it a wagon(which the most recent votecount before the post had only 1 vote on Mala), but *most* of the people who had votes only had 1, so why that comment here? And my vote on DV was from RVS which 5 seconds checking could have cleared up. The only strong opinion was about Italiano votes. Like yeah it looks like this post took them an hour from the initial "i'm here and reading" but I'm not really sure what that time was spent on because there's so much little here.

Last thing Arko said before dipping for 2 more days was a probably would iso Ausuka, but there was tons of time and he wasn't particularly worried. I dislike this more than I currently dislike Italiano(he's on a bit of an upswing here) so,
VOTE: Arko

But I also would really like some mastina and Aisa posts. I'm not sure what to think about mastina and would like more from her, and Aisa has had good thoughts presented in a way I like reading so I just want more of that.

[xofelf]

My Arko vote and read didn't come as a reaction to the Ausuka wagon. I had said earlier that after Italiano did his catchup that I was planning on looking over Arko if Italiano had improved at all, which he did. I had started my Arko iso read before I saw that DV had also recently voted, but like I also think this is town DV so it didn't bother me when that showed up in preview. That being said, I'm willing to vote elsewhere if that's what the town wants to do.

But I also don't think this is scum!Ausuka though. So i'd much prefer not to vote her.

[xofelf]

Hey Penguin, I unvoted as of 754.

Thanks! Please put it on its own line or use the unvote tags.

Will do in the future <3

[xofelf]

Rats. I was really hoping for more Aisa thoughts today.

Free tomorrow to look at things, today was and continues to be busy.

[xofelf]

@Everyone but DeasVail and Koba

Please. I need everyone's reads on Ausuka. I want to know why she's towny to you and if you don't find her towny, why not consider voting her today post italiano flip?

I'll have more time later today(i hope) to engage some more, but the tl;dr reasons for why I don't want to vote for Ausuka are as follows:
1) She's made a claim, she also made this claim in our hood incredibly early and she has not changed anything about that. Additionally, I think she's got one of those roles that is pretty provable, and I'd rather either clear her that way or if shit doesn't happen the way she says, she's yeetable the next day and I think she knows that.
2) Ausuka is a dear friend, and while I've not played too many mafia games with her, I have played and seen her play other games. And her approach to this game both in tone and words chosen read exactly the way I'd expect them to in a genuine way.
3) I recently replaced her in a mafia game where our slot was town, and she had the same kind of posts and even the same kind of reaction to butting heads with somebody here as she did there IMO.

So like, it's not so much I don't want to vote her just because she's town, but because I think she's sortable if given at least one more day. I also didn't read her interactions with Italiano as tvs. It was a styleclash and personalityclash there rather than alignmentclash. And I think we all know that if the clash is bad enough, you just read the other person as scum. It happens all the time.

[xofelf]

the main people of focus for me today will probably be DGB, Freedom and Mastina.

Speaking of Freedom:

Did y'all forget that yesterday, Freedom came in as an L-2 elimination candidate, didn't claim, did absolutely nothing, and hasn't posted anything of note...

...And after the COUNTERWAGTON TO FREEDOM flipped town (the Italiano wagon was IN RESPONSE TO the Freedom wagon)...

...Just wrote it off because idk, reasons?

'Cause I didn't. I might be crippled as fuck right now but I sure ain't gonna forget that y'all let Freedom go free--for absolutely NO reason.

Why hasn't there been more talk about Freedom today?

Oh I'm with you on that, it's very much where I'd like to start the day's conversation. Like.. I was hoping Freedom would come in and give a little more after the two flips, but that intro post is nothing which hasn't made me feel any less bad about that slot. I was busy today so I hadn't gotten a chance to dive into anything, but I'd asked the hood, and I'll ask here too, does anybody have past game experience with Freedom(I think it's implied Shirou does?)? Just a quick too long, never gonna read on what to expect from them would definitely help me see if there's anything other than this slot is just yeetable.

Also, I really hope you feel better soon mastina, or figure out what's going on so it can be fixed. *hugs*

[xofelf]

the main people of focus for me today will probably be DGB, Freedom and Mastina.

Speaking of Freedom:

Did y'all forget that yesterday, Freedom came in as an L-2 elimination candidate, didn't claim, did absolutely nothing, and hasn't posted anything of note...

...And after the COUNTERWAGTON TO FREEDOM flipped town (the Italiano wagon was IN RESPONSE TO the Freedom wagon)...

...Just wrote it off because idk, reasons?

'Cause I didn't. I might be crippled as fuck right now but I sure ain't gonna forget that y'all let Freedom go free--for absolutely NO reason.

Why hasn't there been more talk about Freedom today?

I think you're neglecting that Italiano self-hammered and I was offline half the time before day ended due to Anzac Day.
The wagon very well could've fallen back to me.
P-Edit: Most of it.

Sure, but of what you read, what thoughts do you have about people? Like, a lot of why your slot was in trouble was also from not reading much or being present. Busy is fine, but I'd really like some kind of content here from you.

[xofelf]

DGB i'm not 100% sure i'm confident on my town read of her, but it's not like really through anything she's said or done. She just feels like DGB how I expect her to feel. I think I need to iso her and see what shakes out.

Both are individually quite town imo, but both have the scum skills deeming them worthy of the respect of not hardclearing them.

I find this incredibly flattering, and I agree with you that this definitely applies to DV, it does make me have a particular question. How could you possibly have any sense of my scum game capabilities? I think I've only rolled scum like 3 or 4 times ever on site so I'm wondering which skills you mean. Tbc, I do mean this in a genuine curiosity way, not that you're saying it as some kind of play or I'm feeling defensive or offended.

[xofelf]

Btw, re:meta, am I missing something? I feel like people are townreading her based on meta but she hasn't played for years, does she have an alt or something?

No alt that I know of, just those of us who mention meta just played with her that long ago. Like, the one game I brought up that she and I played, Ladies Night 3, was all the way back in 2014. We've all got joindates before yours, and mastina is her second? third? account, i forget but her original join date is also old af. You've got Shea on your team, I'm sure he also has played with DGB back in the day, might be worth asking him about if he remembers.

[xofelf]

Those are some interesting thoughts Ydra. Need to give them some time to marinate in my brain when I'm not sleep-deprived, but you might be on to something.

[xofelf]

Shea also thought dgb was scum! Although he said he didn't remember much about her meta

He might just be right! Like, I'm not as married to my DGB townread today as I was feeling yesterday. When she did show up, in comparison to other slots, her vibe was in the box I expect her town to fall in much more so than other people were presenting. It doesn't mean she's not scum, just something I'd need something more nonsensical from her along with promises to catch up/read that never follow through.

[xofelf]

Honestly, I dunno. I guess I kinda just assumed? You're a competent player, I just kinda assumed that competence extended to scumplay I guess.

No that's like, completely fine. I can't say I've had anybody call me a competent player either, so that's all nice and fuzzy, thank you.

[xofelf]

You know, you bolding the posts in the way you did made me re-evaluate them a little. Like.. Kowa has lucked into being on a team that has somebody on it who would know the right words that might comfort any suspicion I would have on the slot. The only thoughts I had before was just whomst is this guy? So it does feel like a lot of "how fast can we get xof to think goodly of us?" when put into this context, Shirou. Whether that's just conspiracy brain kicking in here or not, I do appreciate you highlighting that particular progression. That and your posts since..was it yesterday? whenever you said you were gonna do less of a bit and apologized to people, are really just confirming my good vibes and I like how you're thinking.

p-edit: yeah today's Shirou i like a lot.

[xofelf]

Slight v/la til Monday

[xofelf]

Yeah, I gotta say this whole situation is pretty sus, Koba. I'm half asleep atm so I'm not quite sure I'm following all of everything here, but between hammering yesterday and what you're saying your role is and all.. idk man, are you going to flip anything but scum?

Regardless, yesterDay went by way too fucking fast, anybody ending this Day before people have had a chance to weigh in and look at things is at best anti-town.

[xofelf]

I've been talking on game theories with my team tonight and have to address some stuff later, probably in the weekend when I've the time.

I think there's some bulletpoints that need to be discussed before we end the day even if Koba is almost confirmed scum yeah.

do NOT put Koba under E-1 as well by the way

They can self-vote to deny us day discussion.

Agreed to both. I've also asked my team about some things and I'm waiting to hear back. And there's plenty to discuss.

[xofelf]

Personally, I just need a little bit so the day isn't just a vote like yesterDay. Because Koba does have a point that, they don't have too many people that could be pointed at as being in their team. I'd like to at least have some sort of plan going into tomorrow, cuz we're just as screwed if we did fuck it up.

[xofelf]

Oh I agree with you. I just want to see what they say, most specifically what exactly did they do last night.

[xofelf]

You must have missed it, but Koba, I wanted to know what exactly did you do last night?

[xofelf]

You must have missed it, but Koba, I wanted to know what exactly did you do last night?

I already outted results but: n1 Mala, n2 shirou.

Was trying to catch a deepwolf killing

Yeah see, I don't think that's all you did last night. In the hood, you said you were going to target Ydrasse, and the only role that targetted Ydrasse last night was the one you've today confirmed that you have. I think you used your multitasking to roleblock Shirou, and send in the Nightkill on Ydrasse.

VOTE: Koba

[xofelf]

What does Roaming do? I'm too lazy to check.

Roaming means you can only target somebody once ever.

[xofelf]

Yeah hi, I'm a Town Loud Roaming Role Watcher Neighbor. N1 I watched Ausuka, N2 I watched Ydrasse, N3 I watched mastina.

[xofelf]

Nope, I didn't really out any plan. But I'm not in a neighborhood with Shirou. My neighborhood is Ausuka, and DV.

[xofelf]

Oh, no results on N1 or N3. So actually, yeah, Shirou's just straight-up lying.

[xofelf]

I also had outed my N2 results being that Ydrasse was targetted by a Multitasking Roleblocker, aka Koba.

[xofelf]

If the team is koba xofelf and deasvail I am going to cry and then stop playing mafia forever

It's not. Like, I feel like putting all the scum in the same neighborhood isn't something that would happen? Maybe 2, so it could still be DV/koba, but I don't think DV's posting in hood and in thread is how he'd post as scum.

P-edit: @Shirou I meant more that you had targeted mastina, but Ausuka is right that DGB said you'd been roleblocked so you wouldn't have shown up there. I also assumed you get told if you got blocked, but I guess that's not how anything works unless it's Loud, so I take that back.

[xofelf]

Upon doublechecking, xof claimed Role Watcher not Watcher.
Which is making me a bit less concerned.
Though, if possible, xof, can you confirm if any other roles visited Ydra that night other than Koba's Roleblocker?

At least, I'm assuming you didn't tell us what you saw yesterday due to that.

You must have missed it, but Koba, I wanted to know what exactly did you do last night?

I already outted results but: n1 Mala, n2 shirou.

Was trying to catch a deepwolf killing

Yeah see, I don't think that's all you did last night. In the hood, you said you were going to target Ydrasse, and

the only role that targetted Ydrasse last night

was the one you've today confirmed that you have. I think you used your multitasking to roleblock Shirou, and send in the Nightkill on Ydrasse.

VOTE: Koba

Bolded the relevant part. And that is the only role that visited Ydrasse N2. I also watched her specifically because in the hood Koba had said they were going to target Ydra.

Or you didn't want to tip scum off, but I see no point hiding now.

Which, yeah that's why I phrased things the way I said it.

One of the reasons I targeted Mastina was because I thought that if she was town, she was very likely to die on N3.

That's also why I watched mastina last night.

I do think xofelf is just scum here but i want to think about it more / reread the hood

I promise you I'm not, I just didn't roll VT for once.

The reason we suspected Mastina potentially bussing koba

Titus also said this when I asked her to give me some VCA if she had a chance. But also because of the mastina vs. Kowah votecount when it was 3/3.

P-edit:

I think xofelf's claim and timing, with like, their approach to koba looks bad - like it doesn't feel like there is much reason to claim there and it looks performative, like 'hi yes I am guiltying koba too I want to join the fun'. I like xoffy and we were in the hood together and they targeted me with their loud n1 and i think i was probably like... overly favourable to their play before, but their posts in thread are pretty underwhelming - for example on d3 they didn't really like do discussion and solving despite saying we shouldn't hammer koba early for that reason, only to then claim a second guilty on koba and vote.

I'm aware how it looks, but that's not what I was trying to do. I just haven't had any motivation to do anything deeper than quick responses the past like week or so and as I told you in the hood, I've been waiting to hear anything back from my team because I was relying on their feedback to give me a jumping off point because once a game is out of day 1, I find it incredibly overwhelming where to go next and to focus my attention so aside from reading, any actual analysis that get started button never gets pressed. It's also why I don't play games super often, along with rolling a high number of VTs or town with not a lot of additional information i can consider confirmed to base my opinions on.

Looking back in their iso in the hood, I think there was a kind of strange interaction where they said i was town cos my role is confirmable so they don't need to worry about me, I say something along the lines of 'I don't think fruit vendor is a town-only role' at which point they are just like 'well idk, it would confirm the role-claim is accurate, and I think you won't be difficult to sort' (paraphrased, obviously) - in hindsight it does kinda feel like they knew I was town and wanted me in their devious foxy pockets.

Wrong, I didn't know that you were town, but I stand by saying that you're confirmable. I just needed you to claim *who* you were sending fruit to so that I could target that person and get the result that your role as you said it showed up. Like, that's literally it? I also mispoke at the time, because for some reason I thought alignment would come with the role with my night results cuz I've never played a Role Watcher before, so that comment about it not mattering was because I thought I would see that in my result, which would confirm you were what you said.

[xofelf]

{DeasVail(???), Ausuka(???)} -- in this team, there were two scum in the Koba hood, my hood was all town, and Ausuka was the scum in Shirou's hood. The scum have no claimed answers to break up the plethora of town power. What would be equivalent to a JK-Tracker-Doctor-Voyeur(well, voyeur-adjacent)-Rolecop? There's options, but given the presence of visiting and the importance of it, I kinda doubt this combo.

Ausuka is in the same hood with DV, and Koba, and me. Which would be *three* scum in a hood. So this is incredibly unlikely.
(still reading the rest of the mech post, which i appreciate)

[xofelf]

Ausuka is in the same hood with DV, and Koba, and me. Which would be *three* scum in a hood. So this is incredibly unlikely.
(still reading the rest of the mech post, which i appreciate)

Fuckin hell I need a bloody list of who's in what hoods.

Nobody gave me one when the hoods were revealed so I legit haven't had an idea of who's in which hood this whole game.

You know your hood
Mine is me, DV, Ausuka,

Koba

Shirou, Mala, Arko/Freedom, ??

Are the hood associations I can tell from a quick search in thread. I know Italiano, Kowah, and Ydrasse said something about hoods but I'm not confident which. And DGB should also be in one.

[xofelf]

Something about today feels like theatre, but I'm having a hard time telling who is actually on the stage.

My original thoughts about D2 ending as fast as it did wasn't so much scum was in danger of being yeeted, as much as it was something about the discussion directions were why koba quickhammered. Not to mention, in hood right after, Koba did a lot of explaining about why they did what they did and it seemed sus then, and still sus now. Either way, the way wagons have gone and which people have ended up NK'd has exclusively felt like ways of killing specific trains of thought and discussion rather than to stop specific yeets. But I just haven't quite pinpointed *which* people were being discussed then. I need to do some re-reading and pray my brain is up for some analysis.

[xofelf]

mastina, it's not Shirou spam causing at least me not to summarize the hood and such like you asked, but mostly i just don't have the motivation to do that yet. I'm doing well just reading the thread in general atm. My spoons for word effort have gone missing. If I can shake myself into doing shit, and my hood friends haven't done it by then, I'll include that in my stuff.

[xofelf]

I do appreciate you making an effort not to post as much Shirou. As much as my ability to do deep analysis has been compromised due to some body bads and brain dumbs, I think the cut and dry of it is like, we've got several roles that with specifically planned actions, we'll be in a really good position tomorrow. I'm not really sure how to read specific people atm because I can't tell if my vibes on them are right or not. Last time I had any input from Titus, she did say getting confirmed flips on mastina and/or Freedom would really clear stuff up, and I kind of agree. I mostly just have shakey vibes i'm not confident on, and a team who is pretty behind on my game. So gonna do a Shirou and kinda think where my vibes are atm and we'll see how long this post gets and if I got any conclusions.

Ausuka- Like day 1 maybe post 3 in hood, Ausuka mentioned being a fruit vendor. And she's not really waved from that, and i don't know that I would call her interactions in hood with Koba to be anything like them doing a bit together. While I'm not confident I know what Auscumka looks like, I do know what Townsuka looks like, especially recently given I did replace her in a town slot a couple months ago. And even when she was being heavily targetted, she didn't reach emotional places that I didn't buy were genuine emotion, whether she thought she was gonna be yeeted or NK'd. I guess I'm just, familiar with grumpsuka. So if she's been really good about playing me this whole time and there were 2 scum in my hood, she's a goddamn scum genius, and while I believe that the team behind her could have helped her be that, I just don't think her play is anything but town.

DGB- Early on DGB was the kind of posting I expected to see from her when she's town, but she's kinda faded into the background a little bit more. And that could just be she's got RL shit she's doing, which I would buy, but it also reminds me of a scum game she's had, so I'm really torn. *But* the way I understand what she's claimed, she's also testable, no? Like either she does the shit she said she would do overnight, or she doesn't. Also, not as any sort of slight to her, she's pretty easy to look at as "so if i'm building the scumteam from these claims and these people with these plays, she slots in such a makesensical spot" and I can't not see that.

DV- DV in hood and out of hood is the DV I've played with when he was town, like... I don't know how else to explain it. We've known each other for so long, and played so many games where we had to lie to each other, that I know what DV lying looks like and feels like. *But* what I'm missing here is the DV that does a little more action than the usual posting to poke at people to see which ways they squirm. I know he's had some stuff going on, but since the flip this is a less present DV and that worries me. He also suffers from could totally be part of a scumteam. I just don't think so.

Freedom- Man, your slot before was sus, you've also not really fixed that amount of sus. And yet... I think you're just pulling a me and read as scum accidentally just by the way you think and some less good word choices. But there's so much less from you to really reassure me. Like I know I've done kinda fuckall lately, but I still feel like you're doing bare minimum to a) be noticed/remembered at all and b) to look like you're doing solving and sorting this. It could just be playstyle, and I could just be giving you the benefit of the doubt, but I'm not sure. You don't fit into nearly so many possible scumteams though, congratulations. But you do if it's also mastina, who maybe wouldn't be so obvs as to "catch" her scumpartner and then clear her other the next day but maybe the mastina of team mafia this day would do that. *Or* since she's just a rolecop, and maybe your role doesn't have a bunch of modifiers on it so you'd read as close to probably just town in role as possible. I don't know, but it's not an impossibility.

mastina- I want to believe mastina so bad, like i love the synergy our roles have if she's town like I am. I also like a lot of her mech reasonings and some of the posting she's had today. But I also find it weird that she's been outed for a couple Days yet nobody has stopped her from doing her shit. There's also been quite a few posts that she's made that she keeps getting some of the information not quite exactly right, and I don't know what to do with that. Whether we yeet her today, or try to confirm her tonight, I think she's one of the most important flips to fit the rest of the pieces of the puzzle.

Shirou- So I do genuinely enjoy your energy, but you post so much so often that I do often find whatever vibe I had on you drowned out by noise. Which isn't to say your posts *are* noise, just you do a lot of thinking your thoughts at the thread in posts rather than in your head or in your teamchat. Unless you *also* are this present there and in your hood, which, bro how do you have the time??? Okay so...I've been hoping to get *somebody* to accidentally explain to me without me having to ask, but at this point I should just ask.. What does Announcing mean? Is it like... Loud except the people you target know that you've targetted them and *how* you've targeted them? >.> I've been assuming that's how it works, in which case as much as I'm not sure where to put you, so long as you actually get to do your role, people should know exactly what you are? I can't really find too much fault in the way that you think or post about things ina way that as fucky as the vibes of your roleclaiming have been, you might just be what you've said.

So, i guess in terms of should be flipped/confirmed first, i'd put it like mastina > Shirou > Freedom > DV > DGB > Ausuka
I don't think there's team equity between DV/Ausuka. But there could be with Freedom/mastina.
Everything else needs actual digging and praying my team are capable of giving me a place to bounce thoughts off of for actual solid shit.

[xofelf]

Okay, so it is what I thought. Thank you <3

You're not, I just know what it looks like when it's legitimate. That's more what i meant.

P-edit: We were, yes, but a) I think that's the one I replaced out of?, and b) my word choice was intentional, i'm not *confident* I know what it looks like. Cuz I didn't have a strong of sense of you as a person or presence in that game. which may just be how you read as scum and that's what it's like, but you're definitely not that brand of you here in this game.

[xofelf]

I feel I forgot to mention before I did my wall, try as I might I haven't been able to sleep yet so I've been up since 11am yesterday

[xofelf]

That's more or less it, yeah. Also the RL thing was a date, and it was very nice, and sleep that night was also really good, thanks for asking

I hope everything will be okay mastina.

It's Mother's Day today, so I've got some things, but look, my post was more to give not just y'all a sense of what i'm thinking, but also a pin for myself to start from on the things i want to clear up for myself. I'm always waffly, it's the biggest complaint I get about my gameplay. I haven't played scum in a long time, so I don't remember if it's also something I do as scum. I just find it difficult to have concrete definite opinions and stances on people unless i have information that I know has to be correct. That's just.. how I am. I get it's often shit scum does, but that's not why I'm doing it.

[xofelf]

The only person you flipped was Freedom and Ausuka, otherwise I think those neighborhoods are exactly right. I also appreciate you laying everything out like that. Helps to sort through stuff, so thanks mastina.

[xofelf]

Sorry, I have an apartment inspection tomorrow morning so the last few days have been apartment cleaning and organizing. I did manage to find some time to talk game with Titus last night, and she's kinda in the same place as me, but she says that she doesn't think anybody who claimed a PR is lying about their PRs, so we shouldn't be limming in that pool at all, which I also agree with. Of the DV/Freedom pool, I'd rather do Freedom as they're who I've found most sus throughout. So intent to vote there.

I also think we should go with the plan Ausuka laid out, cuz I think it allows for more people to make it out of the night with information. I say whichever of DV/Freedom we don't yeet, DGB should JK. Titus was wary of a chain though, which I get.

[xofelf]

Inspection went great and i'm awake now.

Shirou's checkplan was what I was thinking also. I had no intention of voting to put Freedom at E-1, though I do want to vote there. mastina wanted some time, and i'm inclined to give it to her. But, if voting DV would mean that we don't have a no-lim, I will vote there even though I don't want to. DGB, you're gonna wanna relook at your solve, cuz I'm not scum.

[xofelf]

Okay, that's enough out of both of you. Like this game is hard enough to be engaged with as it is without coming back to pages of people shouting at each other. Like, both of you keep reading each other's posts in the worst possible light while also digging your heels in that you HAVE to be right and the other person HAS to be wrong, and that's not going to help town win the game, and even aside from that we're to play a GAME. And Games are supposed to be FUN, so think we can be a little more fucking nice to each other?

Shirou, you could be on to something with DV being scum, but I just don't think so. I know what it feels like when he's playing me, and he's not doing that here. mastina, I was pointing out that you kept getting things wrong because I actually thought it was most likely town behaviour from you because you are right that you would have gotten things exactly correct if you weren't town. I know you've been going through a lot and you've been behind in the game, I appreciate that you're engaging where you can, but I think some of the issues you're having with Shirou is misinterpretation of each other's points and reasonings. We have a plan, and more than enough "known" modifiers that we should be able to have some sense of who is actually lying about their roles.

I don't think we need the day to go any longer, cuz we're just rehashing the same shit but louder. So,
VOTE: Freedom

I just don't think it's DV, and if I'm wrong, the flip should also help sort out a fair bit. As much as possible, we should be using our neighbourhoods for any discussion we didn't manage to get into thread here.

[xofelf]

I am also loud.

I also would like this thread to stop being so loud with shouting. Like, there's so many points you both agree on and both have been thinking, you don't need to fight about those. Like, can we chill?

[xofelf]

I'm not letting your voice drown out mine when I make some really fucking good points that I don't want people to gloss over.

Okay but mastina, the tone in which all of your posts where you're doing this, really doesn't make anybody wanna read them because they're overly aggressive and needlessly combative. Like, I get you're reading Shirou's posts as trying to drown you out, but he's not really doing that? not from my perspective. Like, when you have your posts that are just what you think and your reasonings, that aren't some brand of "lemme tell you why you're fucking wrong, and scum for it" or "you're putting my posts in the wrong context", I *like* those posts. Those are readable posts that I actually want to engage with. Everything else is just becoming noise, and we are way too far into this day for more noise. Like, just ignore Shirou for a bit and give us what your solves are for people. I know you've made posts that have those already, but it sounded like you had some specifics you wanted to do before day end. If you already made those posts, I'm sorry but I missed them because so many of your posts tonight have been way too fighty.

[xofelf]

It is weird that DV isn't voting.

I agree. But I also haven't seen him online in a bit, so I'm hoping he'll come back and change that.

[xofelf]

You can even claim Loud Neapolitan.

What is a Neapolitan?

[xofelf]

Ah! Okay, thanks. I did figure there's a lot of viable fakeclaims, it was just a role i'd never heard of. Appreciate the explanation <3

[xofelf]

The not posting was because it was the time I get my son up and ready for school, I've been refreshing waiting to see DGB log in. I said this earlier, and I meant it, if I had needed to flip to DV to avoid a no lim, I would have. Even though I don't agree, that vote is better than no vote at all.

[xofelf]

I think Freedom is scum, so yes?

[xofelf]

IIoA?

[xofelf]

Tbh, I think it's just slightly too early in the day for mods, so we may be in twilight for a bit here.

But, shouldn't we at least talk about night results before speedwagoning? Like, that's important too, no? I'm sure there's a reason it's smart play, but i also know I don't know that reason so would like a quick tl;dr on the why there.

[xofelf]

Watching DV wouldn't give anything unless somebody targets DV, but I haven't watched DV yet so he's still a possibility.

[xofelf]

xof can't see modifiers.

That's not true, yes I can. I just don't see alignment. When I watched Ydrasse, I got Koba's entire role *with* modifiers.

[xofelf]

We all make mistakes so like, it's not a hateable offense.

[xofelf]

You're not!

[xofelf]

I had fun overall so thanks to all the people who helped to make that be the case. <3

[xofelf]

Oh goodness, I wouldn't say that I wouldn't read her *wrong* just that, she's one of those players that when she's not actually trying to sort people or pull a town gambit, I think it's pretty easy to tell.

Tbh, not protecting me was the right move, cuz I never would have seen DV. Excellent job of managing I think.

[xofelf]

But also, look, yet again I roll town. I barely remember what a scum PM looks like

[xofelf]

Also, Koba, even though we were not on the same side, I genuinely enjoyed playing with you. Hope your RL stuff has improved.

[xofelf]

But also, look, yet again I roll town. I barely remember what a scum PM looks like

I feel that, my last scum game was Team Mafia 2020 and I haven't won as scum since 2017

I was scum in a hydra with Pine, and then in the Survivormeet Invitational, both games which couldn't finish for reasons. Before that, I don't think I've had a scum PM since 2009. I tend to roll VT a ridiculous amount of the time, so it was at least nice to get to do things.

Also, Koba, even though we were not on the same side, I genuinely enjoyed playing with you. Hope your RL stuff has improved.

thank you! you were a slot I felt I needed to kill in my gut but I just had bigger fish i needed to go for unfortunately.

That is completely fair! And your gut was a little right but seriously, you did a fantastic job of wording things in a way that seemed completely reasonable from somebody scumhunting from my perspective.

[xofelf]

and also we got lucky that I never targeted the watcher before massclaim I guess.

FWIW, if you had, that wasn't even going to go into the neighborhood. And was going to stay in my team chat until the opportune moment.

But also, yeah, like the moment mastina ever starts talking about how ScumMastina never does x or ScumMastina does y, it's a big neon sign telling you she's just scum.