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Post #37 (isolation #0) » Fri Jun 23, 2023 3:54 pm
Postby heipizhu4 »
Anyone remember this?
In post 1736, bugspray wrote:
Reviewed By:
Nobody, I believe that if someone knew the setup beforehand they would take a moral duty upon themselves to tell as many people as possible so that they do not sign up for the game.
So I believe the setup would be insane somehow, otherwise bugspray won't say something like the above.
According to me observation, there are some unusual rule/unclear points to the game, include:
The Box. and I generally believe it refers to the poor little cat lol.
GM are not 100% closed. However, it is revealed part by part. So how can we reveal it? Could revealing be worse for us?
Everyone is required to confirm instead of 8/9 or 7/9. Could this mean some of us have night0 actions?
There is no sample pm.
We have completely no idea how many scums are there
And let me take a wild guess: After the first 2 players are thrown into the box, they have 50% becoming mafia or changed their allignment or something?
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Post #63 (isolation #8) » Fri Jun 23, 2023 4:38 pm
Postby heipizhu4 »
In post 61, Aliana wrote:
How do we (the town) even win/lose the game if there isn't an anti-town faction opposing us?
Because we don't know the full setup yet! Imo the scum may only appears after we put someone in the box, or the setup just can't be that annoying to deal with.
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Post #65 (isolation #9) » Fri Jun 23, 2023 4:43 pm
Postby heipizhu4 »
In post 0, bugspray wrote:
Day phases last for 168 hours (seven earth spinnies). During this time all players must vote on who to put into the box.
In post 0, bugspray wrote:
Elimination
- Days end early when a simple majority of players (50% of living players + 1 rounded down) vote to eliminate somebody. If a majority is not reached at deadline or if a majority of the players vote for no elimination, the day will end without an elimination. At evens, 50% is sufficient for no elimination.
In post 61, Aliana wrote:
How do we (the town) even win/lose the game if there isn't an anti-town faction opposing us?
Because we don't know the full setup yet! Imo the scum may only appears after we put someone in the box, or the setup just can't be that annoying to deal with.
In post 0, bugspray wrote:
Day phases last for 168 hours (seven earth spinnies). During this time all players
must
vote on who to put into the box.
In post 0, bugspray wrote:
Elimination
- Days end early when a simple majority of players (50% of living players + 1 rounded down) vote to eliminate somebody. If a majority is not reached at deadline or if a majority of the players vote for no elimination, the day will end without an elimination. At evens, 50% is sufficient for no elimination.
Are these rules paradoxical?
Is the paradox in the
must
? I think "nobody" is a fine answer to "who should be put into the box?".
Bolded something out. I think I could reach some conclusions that:
Only 2 mafias exist
Which of the mafia to make the move matters. Probably it has relationship with the numbers?
Dead != in the box. So could I guess the box is may be something similar as being doused in the forest fire (https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Forest_Fire )setup + added to a neighborhood + some unknown effect?
In post 99, ceejayvinoya wrote:
Anyone else just wanna wing this and play it like a regular game of Mafia until the mechanics screws us over?
So where should we start? Like: VOTE: imagine as a pressure post for having the least post count?
So, imagine, do you have any thought on this game currently, either about the mechanic or the reads on players?
Why do you feel the need to make everyone talk about the mechanics of the game?
Because the machanic is one of the most important parts of this game (or I won't come to join this word game against the mod lol). Possible benefits include:
Collective creativity
Fishing some gms out of the mafia's mouth (if mafia know more machanics than we do)
Heating up the discussion and try to push things away from rvs. Tbh, let someone discuss the machanics should be easier to ask for reads here I guess?
In post 105, heipizhu4 wrote:
Heating up the discussion and try to push things away from rvs.
There are 2 real votes on you, you realize that yeah?
In post 105, heipizhu4 wrote:
Fishing some gms out of the mafia's mouth (if mafia know more machanics than we do)
So your just basically admitting to being scum, and having more information aren't you?
Because you no longer have the excuse of there being no Sample PM's, so there would be no reason to assume this.
Yeah, I realized, but I also realized the votes are not votes that try to get me eliminated. As I infered above, box != dead. I'm fine if you guys really put me in the box to test what the box actually means, and I'm ready for sacrifice.
Isn't it Common knowledge that scum have more information than the town? As we all know, the game is about 'uninformed majority' vs 'informed minority' and you just stopped us from getting more info.
Sorry, never trust the mod in a bastard game lol. Even the sample pm is given, how can you be sure scums have exactly the same amount of info as the town (execept they know their partners)? Apply the same logic on you, you basically admit scum and say 'I don't know more info about the setup than the town', aren't you?
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Post #112 (isolation #22) » Fri Jun 23, 2023 10:05 pm
Postby heipizhu4 »
In post 109, JasonWazza wrote:
To be clear, i'm not the one assuming they do or don't know anything, you are, my accusations are at the fact that you seem to be implying they have more knowledge, when at least a town player shouldn't believe that is truth.
Fair. Probably I got myself tunneled into taking that 'scum know more about the setup'. Thanks for pointing it out!
In post 109, JasonWazza wrote:
I don't think talking about mechanics helps town right now (especially since we don't know if someone on the Town side has something that interacts with these mechanics, and would be best left undisclosed.)
I still think it do. I mean, I still consider that scumhunting should be as important as revealing the rules. If we put all the special rules aside, we are pushing the game into a 2v7 mountainous setup, and it definitely doesn't favor us.
Based on the experiments conducted on the last three pages, we have already altered the op in 3 different places, so I've got a feeling that the gms are revealed by discussing and forming some certain opinions somehow. So what was doing here is to treat this thread as a lab and see what exactly will happen.
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Post #120 (isolation #23) » Sat Jun 24, 2023 2:51 am
Postby heipizhu4 »
In post 113, biancospino wrote:
Weren't you the one testing the ground to see if we would accept that, if someone would appear to try to get into the box, then we should consider that maybe the box doesn't hurt scum? And how convenient, you're signaling you're fine with getting into the box now
If the box doesn't hurt the scum, why are we still voting anyway?
The reason why I'm fine getting into the box is that
a)I'm the newiest player here, so if we have to vote someone out, I'm the best choice among the town members
b) If I get into the box, perhaps I can get some information out of the box and benefit the town and there might be some chance for me to become a confimed townie.
c)Honestly, I signed up for this game to explore the machanics and have fun. So, being in the box can help me have some fun, why not if we are running out of choices?
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Post #121 (isolation #24) » Sat Jun 24, 2023 2:57 am
Postby heipizhu4 »
In post 118, Ircher wrote:
No, this is a poor argument. Just because the sample role pms don't tell anything new doesn't mean mafia don't have access to other information they could accidentally leak.
Agree. Still remember the angle and demon mafia where the flipped pm is imcomplete, so here could be also the case
In that blissful moment, then
I felt myself so small, so great:
Cruelly you hurled me back again,
Into Man’s uncertain state.
Phir, the
Vanilla Townie
, has been killed.
Meuh, the
Mafia Demon
, has been killed.
example mafia demon role pm wrote:You are a
mafia demon
. During the day, before the elimination, you must send me the name of a player, to offer them a bargain. You can update this as often as you like. They will be offered a power.
At night, you can discuss the nightkill in this PT. You win when the mafia are the only ones alive, or nothing can stop this from happening.
It is now day 3, with 7 alive, it is 4 to eliminate.
send me the name of a player not in the mafia, to offer them a bargain. This is a compulsive action. You can update this as often as you like. They will be offered the chance to join a masonhood, a one shot vig, or a one shot watcher randomly. If they accept and die afterwards by any means, you will collect their soul and their role will not flip (but you will be told what their role was).
At night, you can discuss the nightkill with your partner xxx in this PT. You cannot kill the same person that was offered a bargain. You win when the mafia are the only ones alive, or nothing can stop this from happening.
First action given will be a watcher, then masonhood, then watcher etc. Mimes will only be offered watchers. If the game is going into the night with an uneven number, a vig will be offered.
With the added note that I realized during the game that the intention of the vig giving doesn't work the same way with the angel. It would cause the day to become even. It didn't matter because it was given to a mime, but to a townie I should've given a masonhood membership.
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Post #122 (isolation #25) » Sat Jun 24, 2023 3:27 am
Postby heipizhu4 »
My current reading list:
Merlyn, imagine, Alian(n)a: neutral
Not lots of posts, tbh. Merlyn has only made 3 posts (which gives little information), imagine has only 1 post in 12 as an rvs post, Aliana has some interactions with me, but kind of reluctant to think about the setup, not sure why
Doctor: a bit scumlean. Before 19, his post are all greeting posts, rather genuine. Then he skipped the gm discussion part, and voted for me. Kind of sussy, but I'll keep an eye in drew.
Bianco: townlean. Honestly. He has made several experiments on the setup, and his reasoning is fine on voting me, really.
ceej: neutral. Several one liners, just like his previous games.
Ircher: Hi, thanks for the defend! A tl on you, but not enough for a town read currently (cause the lack of information on the day1 of day1 lol)
Jason: I like his 101, but his scumread on me, idk, is 'single reasoned'. Not something I like. Neutral for now.
An ISO on myself: This player has done lots of lists and exploration on the setup, however, his intention to vote himself out is suspicious. Scumlean on him
That's another reason why I'm fine with you guys voting me. I tried to be 100% genuine here, but looking at myself's iso, I have sus on myself as well. Let's see what will happen next after I post this.
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Post #127 (isolation #28) » Sat Jun 24, 2023 3:44 am
Postby heipizhu4 »
In post 123, Merlyn wrote:
I don't like this whole, I have sus on myself thing... Like what?
What I mean by considering myself scummy is that looking at myself's ISO, and spectate myself, I don't consider me playing towny. Really. So I mean the voters on me may not be scums trying to push me off and have their reasons and I ACCEPT.
In post 99, ceejayvinoya wrote:
Anyone else just wanna wing this and play it like a regular game of Mafia until the mechanics screws us over?
Lol, I do kinda vibe with this.
What I would like to see is the kind doctor following through with this.
I mainly plan on it, especially since overall trying to mech talk through a bastard game is pretty foolish.
Also heip, are you Demona?
Nope,
(or I will be accused by the admins of using secret alt accounts lol)
Atfer reading her iso of the demon mafia, I have a feeling she has a similar playstyle with me, that is,
a) Be keen on early game setup research
b) Actively posting half-screen walls
c) And rather poor at defending?
In post 123, Merlyn wrote:
I don't like this whole, I have sus on myself thing... Like what?
What I mean by considering myself scummy is that looking at myself's ISO, and spectate myself, I don't consider me playing towny. Really. So I mean the voters on me may not be scums trying to push me off and have their reasons and I ACCEPT.
What have you done that you, when re-reading your posts, don't consider playing towny?
Hmmm, probably I should apologize for my bad wording skills. What I mean here is that your posts before 45 is kind of 'prod dodge' and I expected a town posting something related to the setup discussion while you are online. Anyway, considering your meta (which refers to a short poster), so I'm fine with that.
And about viewing myself as somehow scummy at that point, somehow, I couldn't recall exactly why I thought about it. Probably I kind of panicked when all of you were pressuring me (who's a newbie that have only completed 2 games) . Sometimes, I have a bad habit of taking most of the accusations on me and thought 'emmm, I did made scumtell and yes, you're right' because I am quite poor at wording and have trouble picking the correct word (eg: the 'sacrifice') so that should be the case.
In post 99, ceejayvinoya wrote:
Anyone else just wanna wing this and play it like a regular game of Mafia until the mechanics screws us over?
So where should we start? Like: VOTE: imagine as a pressure post for having the least post count?
So, imagine, do you have any thought on this game currently, either about the mechanic or the reads on players?
This feels weird.
It's interesting that you immediately looked for someone to pressure and asked their thoughts on the game, rather than offering your own thoughts.
Nah, I was just trying to kick off the game out of rvs so I call the one with the least post out. I'd originally ask him to join the discussion on the setup, and the thread turned out to attack me (sad)
In post 37, heipizhu4 wrote:
There is no sample pm.
We have completely no idea how many scums are there
In post 42, heipizhu4 wrote:
We don't even know whether a scum exist here lol
It's a mix of this stuff here is the reason i thought that i'm concerned with Heip.
Scum would be more worried about sample PM's it feels like, because town at least have a PM that is usable for claiming and whatnot, it's the scum that would potentially be more concerned of not having a sample PM.
Then the "no idea how many scum there is" this seems really weird, especially followed slightly after with "we don't know if they exist" there is no reason to think that we would be in a game with no scum.
This all adds up to me thinking that this is Scum.
I don't like how you quote my 37. This is a post dumping all my observations on the GMs and rules, and it seems you are wrongly pushing me by only quoting part of my posts.
42 is a semi-joke where I'm making up a hypotheses that the true setup could be way more bastard than we imagine.
>Concerned of not having a sample pm
If I were a scum, why shouldn't ask the mod directly for the sample pm since the lack of sample pm is a moderation error?
And I believe we have got lot of information after the scum pm was revealed as mentioned in 96
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Post #232 (isolation #35) » Mon Jun 26, 2023 1:31 pm
Postby heipizhu4 »
In post 230, JasonWazza wrote:
and how am i wrongly pushing you by explaining why i had first voted you over 100 posts later?
Because it's a scumplay to do inaccurate quotes. I have previously mentioned that agreed with some of your accusations on me, but I can't really say I like this one. You seem to be underestimating the power of the information, or why the mod would say the reviewers would take a moral duty upon themselves to tell as many people as possible so that they do not sign up for the game?
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Post #296 (isolation #37) » Wed Jun 28, 2023 3:21 am
Postby heipizhu4 »
In post 0, bugspray wrote:
Days
- Day 1 lasts 10 days and other days last 7 days. Extensions may be granted if there are replacements, or if the majority of players make it clear to me that an extension is desired.
In post 2, bugspray wrote:
Day 1 begins. Nobody is voting to put anyone else into the box.
(expired on 2023-06-30 17:07:12)
@mod Is the day deadline wrong or am I misunderstanding the rule?
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Post #299 (isolation #38) » Wed Jun 28, 2023 4:15 am
Postby heipizhu4 »
In post 297, Merlyn wrote:
@hep the mods use something to make the deadline counter dynamic, so no matter what page you see it on it's always ticking down to the correct time
I mean, the day1 start post is on 24 June, but the deadline lasts 7 days to 30 June?
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Post #301 (isolation #39) » Wed Jun 28, 2023 4:19 am
Postby heipizhu4 »
OK, start reviewing the whole d1 for now:
page1: Mostly greeting stuff, with aliana started discussing the gm
page2: Bianco put up some deeper exploration, me bumping my observation, start with 46 jason, bianco and aliana discuss the box, which eventually lead to part of revealing in the op
page3: Lots of experiments conducted jason, bianco, aliana and me. I mentioned the bracket, and it got closed successfully.
page4: We made it to page 4 with a discussion of sample pm.
In post 72, JasonWazza wrote:
Actually, you know what i want to ask this, does everyone have Reality feels unstable in their role PM?
I do
+1. But why we don't have a sample pm?
Moderator error.
We started playing a normal mafia from here. 84 and 86 is where I got 2 naked votes from doctor and jason. I didn't really like their post in page 3, like:
And i will point this out, pondering aloud may actually help the town as a whole, given that we were given the single box answer publicly by pondering about the box.
In post 90, Doctor Drew wrote:
Bianco, why so worried about votes on heip(thank you for the shorthand suggestion lol).
I couldn't be sure if it's a way for Town!drew to get things out of rvs (as he mentioned in 251), or just a wierd way scum!drew tried to interact with his partner jason, or simply trying to push me.
And @drew: And are you serious about scumreading bianco and me at that time or is this simply a joke?
In post 97, Doctor Drew wrote:
Please don't tell me this as easy as just Bianco/heip.
And p4 ends with ceej popped up and encouraged us to play normal mafia.
Page5 start with something I like about Jason (101) Nice question, though no reply from the mod. Then Jason had a quick realtime interaction with me, arguing about several things. I'm not quite good at doing argues, especially in real-time situations. Looking back, I DID look sussy in some minior details, but jason and drew had something too, so are they pushing a bit too hard? Bianco has also voted for me (113)
Ircher stated to do some defence on me, and looks fine on me.
The weirdest post on p5 is merlyn's 123. The first sentence is fine, and the second one?felt somehow overly defensive.
In post 0, bugspray wrote:
Days
- Day 1 lasts 10 days and other days last 7 days. Extensions may be granted if there are replacements, or if the majority of players make it clear to me that an extension is desired.
In post 2, bugspray wrote:
Day 1 begins. Nobody is voting to put anyone else into the box.
(expired on 2023-06-30 17:07:12)
@mod Is the day deadline wrong or am I misunderstanding the rule?
the deadline is correct; the stated deadline from the 'Mechanical Rules and Information' section supercedes the one above:
(this section may be incomplete, more things will be added, removed, or changed as they become public knowledge or change. some of this may require zeitgeist. rest assured, all rules are written down in the moderator thread)
Day phases last for 168 hours (seven earth spinnies). During this time all players must vote on who to put into the box.
Night phases last for 24 hours (one earth spinny). During this time players with night actions will take night actions.
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Post #303 (isolation #41) » Wed Jun 28, 2023 4:52 am
Postby heipizhu4 »
The game is getting wierd...
Why we are reaching late day1, where we
a) Not having lots of townread globally. Probably we are having experienced scums among the active players to screw us up?
b) Wagon is not sth. I like. Will do some research tommorow.
c) So many elim options there... Why?
In post 37, heipizhu4 wrote:
There is no sample pm.
We have completely no idea how many scums are there
In post 42, heipizhu4 wrote:
We don't even know whether a scum exist here lol
It's a mix of this stuff here is the reason i thought that i'm concerned with Heip.
Scum would be more worried about sample PM's it feels like, because town at least have a PM that is usable for claiming and whatnot, it's the scum that would potentially be more concerned of not having a sample PM.
Then the "no idea how many scum there is" this seems really weird, especially followed slightly after with "we don't know if they exist" there is no reason to think that we would be in a game with no scum.
This all adds up to me thinking that this is Scum.
I don't like how you quote my 37. This is a post dumping all my observations on the GMs and rules, and it seems you are wrongly pushing me by only quoting part of my posts.
42 is a semi-joke where I'm making up a hypotheses that the true setup could be way more bastard than we imagine.
>Concerned of not having a sample pm
If I were a scum, why shouldn't ask the mod directly for the sample pm since the lack of sample pm is a moderation error?
And I believe we have got lot of information after the scum pm was revealed as mentioned in 96
The above post is the selective quoting thing I wanna say before you questioned me (And I've called it 'inaccurate quote' where a 'selective quoting' is a better name). What I wanted to say is that jason has quoted my posts out of the original content. Take post 42 as an example, I replied to ceej with this:
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Post #328 (isolation #43) » Wed Jun 28, 2023 3:03 pm
Postby heipizhu4 »
In post 313, Ircher wrote:
Also, did you not have any analysis for the first three or so pages? Mechanical stuff can be harder to read, but there's usually something to gleam there too.
No, haven't noticed anything worth mentioning. Perhaps We could go back after more info come out in d2 I guess?
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Post #389 (isolation #50) » Fri Jun 30, 2023 5:03 am
Postby heipizhu4 »
Spoiler: I asked chatgpt what's the relationship between morning and quantum
Ah, an interesting question! While the words "morning" and "quantum" may seem unrelated at first, allow me to explore a creative connection for you. Imagine waking up in the morning, feeling refreshed and ready to tackle the day. Now, think of the wonders of quantum physics, a fascinating branch of science that explores the behavior of particles at a microscopic level. Just as each morning brings a new beginning, quantum mechanics unveils a world of endless possibilities and surprises at the smallest scale of our universe. So, one could say that the relationship between "morning" and "quantum" lies in the idea of embracing each day with a sense of curiosity, just as scientists explore the mysteries of quantum physics. Isn't that intriguing?
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Post #449 (isolation #52) » Sun Jul 02, 2023 8:45 pm
Postby heipizhu4 »
OK. Another big claim after jason's post
Jason has been telling the truth. The current scum is imagine and I, and we have put no one in the box.
Jason's hypotheses of the +/-1 is wrong. My only guess for day3 scum is bianco and doctor, who haven't been the scum in the previous days.
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Post #480 (isolation #55) » Tue Jul 04, 2023 10:44 pm
Postby heipizhu4 »
In post 479, imaginality wrote:
To be clear, I don't want to make it a scum win. I think scum should no kill also and everyone lives happyily ever after.
Right now is there is no reason for them to kill since there's only 1/3 chance they stay scum the next day, so this is in their interests as well as ours.
