Open 881 | Friends and Enemies | Postgame

[meowmeow]

hi everyone

i don't think yeka's thing is scummy really

VOTE: doctor drew

[meowmeow]

oops sorry

i have brief experience with you if you're inutile

[meowmeow]

Katya seems like they'll sort themselves if they keep hyperposting Ari are you scum or nah?
@drew For real its been a while tho tbf

what do you want to say about ari here, and do you think hyperposting players are often easy to read?

VOTE: superbowl9

[meowmeow]

because it felt off to me

[meowmeow]

mala playing the entire game drunk challenge

ANSWER THE QUESTION I WANT ANSWERS
And more like take a shot every post challenge

Katya seems like they'll sort themselves if they keep hyperposting Ari are you scum or nah?
@drew For real its been a while tho tbf

what do you want to say about ari here, and do you think hyperposting players are often easy to read?

VOTE: superbowl9

No I don't think postcount = readability I'm only commenting on Katya
Do you disagree?

i don't actually have that much experience with katya so i'm not sure. honestly i thought you were saying that hyperposting is easily readable. do you know her?

[meowmeow]

and do you think hyperposting players are often easy to read?

wait do you think i am particularly difficult to read? or that i will be this game? or is this just relevant superbowl9 thought process to you?

the latter, mostly

i have seen you once and you were fairly obviously town in that game. i expect you to play at least a bit differently, since you're on an alt account. i don't know what to expect and will sort you as i see fit later

meowmeow can be town actually idk

yeah?

do you disagree?

[meowmeow]

well i'm not really feeling that right now D:

[meowmeow]

my main account is ausuka and the game i'm thinking of is mini 2279 fwiw. this isn't really meant to be a secret alt account

i think it's possible to townread posts 2, 3 and 4, although townreading 2 or 4 is likely to be dubious. 3 could be dubious but could also possibly not be dubious. what a dubiousity.

in any case, my point was that the 'yeah?' felt kind of strange - like, if you think datisi's read on me is weird, which is like yeah fine i believe that is a thought you could have, why not just ask him about it? like what were you trying to communicate there

[meowmeow]

ausuka

*spits out pasta*

...god how am i SO FUCKING BAD AT ALTS??

lmao, who were you thinking i was?

[meowmeow]

And very Drew of me to say, but the brief interaction of std and Dats(std wanting to wagon Dats and Dats saying std is better than that), seems partnery.

i am not entirely sure why but this vibes to me as a towny thought to have? i mean i'm not sure i want to be cracking into the preflip associatives on page 8 but i think i get where it's coming from and it seems like a somewhat strange post for scum to make, or at least counterintuitive to accuse someone who's pushing in the same direction as you

i am not acting in bad faith though >:(

[meowmeow]

datisiiiii you know my reads are awful stop buddying me

[meowmeow]

i can kind of see where that's coming from but also like... it's not like i'm voting katya here. i'm aware she talks in an unusual way and i had a confrontation with it in the early stages of the other game. but like, if that posting style makes me not understand its thought process, i'm going to press her on it to get more information. i don't really have a problem with the response it gave to my question but i don't think it was a bad question, shrug

[meowmeow]

ausuka

*spits out pasta*

...god how am i SO FUCKING BAD AT ALTS??

scum theatre?

scum ari?

[meowmeow]

mala playing the entire game drunk challenge

ANSWER THE QUESTION I WANT ANSWERS
And more like take a shot every post challenge

Katya seems like they'll sort themselves if they keep hyperposting Ari are you scum or nah?
@drew For real its been a while tho tbf

what do you want to say about ari here, and do you think hyperposting players are often easy to read?

VOTE: superbowl9

No I don't think postcount = readability I'm only commenting on Katya
Do you disagree?

i don't actually have that much experience with katya so i'm not sure. honestly i thought you were saying that hyperposting is easily readable. do you know her?

Nah and no but lowkey I thought all of this would be implied in the post I coulda said katya will sort if they hyperpost instead no? Seems like a weird press

i mean, is that not exactly what you said? i don't understand this at all or what's meant to be implied

[meowmeow]

i don't think i have any scum reads/scum leans per se right now - but reading dati's posts i don't hate their thoughts on meow so maybe i just plaster my RVS vote to stay for now

can you elaborate on your thoughts when reading these posts?

VOTE: Shadi

[meowmeow]

i dont understand the superbowl votes

Spoiler: quoting for notifs

Katya seems like they'll sort themselves if they keep hyperposting Ari are you scum or nah?
@drew For real its been a while tho tbf

what do you want to say about ari here, and do you think hyperposting players are often easy to read?

VOTE: superbowl9

what the fuck datisi. what the fuck is wrong with you

VOTE: superbowl

VOTE: superbowl

I prefer pasta

the post i quoted felt off as i said

to elaborate a bit, it felt empty and performative to me and i wanted to see what, if anything, was the thought behind it

[meowmeow]

who do you think is our best bet for flipping a mafia today katya?

like at this exact moment?

maybe shadi1337?

but far from anything super strong there

this may have been a bit of a honeypot as skygazer would say

anyway thoughts later maybe

i'm generally not a big fan of preflip associatives but if shadi flips red i think this is scum like a very big amount of the time

[meowmeow]

the whole 'maybe x is scum idk i don't have scumreads' and then calling it a honeypot is so ??? to me

like if you want to honeypot why are you going to such lengths to emphasise you don't actually have a scumread there

[meowmeow]

like at this point datisi has already pointed out like the big glaring problem with shadi's post

i think it's extremely questionable to make that sort of complete non-read and if/when people push on it say it's a honeypot and people pushing there were just attracted by your post

like ???

[meowmeow]

i think votes and wagoning are such incredibly common behaviour that i really struggle to believe this as a genuine line of thought. like, do you want dissertations on read progressions on page 13? i voted superbowl because i thought he was scummy. i still do, actually, but at this stage of the game I'd also like to pay attention to other people. and you could ask the same of like any vote that's happened in this game. oh, why do you need to vote there? couldn't you just ask them things and wait for them or something? or you could ask the same for any game. it just feels like you wanted to make this push and the thought process was created after

not to mention iirc i don't think anyone explicitly asked about it? datisi made note of it, sure

and like if you don't agree that wagons are good but you acknowledge town do it and don't want to argue about it... what is the point here exactly? what is the honeypot supposed to be doing?

[meowmeow]

you asked about a completely separate thing???? like it was just completely different and honestly your questions were completely uninteresting

like "why does bulge think you and datisi might be scum together" zzzzzz i don't really care about that at all. why on earth would it influence me??? oh i don't need to say anything because katya already lobbed a question of reading comprehension where the answer is not likely to be different at all depending on Shadi's alignment.

i also don't think his datisi read is bad inherently. the obvious issue here is that shadi didn't read datisi's posts about me and yet acted like they had a great deal of influence on his view of the gamestate

[meowmeow]

if you could describe your current thoughts on katya's slot, they would be...

what do you think of ari?

idk, i still think a lot of the things it's saying don't make a lot of sense (and thus it's a scumlean) but the current discussion happening is lowkey stupid and i'm not sure it's actually indicative of alignemnt

nothing

datisi you're not supposed to pocket me by calling me stupid that's not how this works

[meowmeow]

??? why is wagoning someone who isn't currently here who is posting in a scheduled manner effective in this situation

like shadi1337 is likely to come to the thread in an hour or so based on previous days

and i guess i don't see the difference between voting and not voting re:your post in terms of what can be gained from that

idk maybe i'm being dumb here but are you then just also looking for commentary on the vote? or do you think they're more likely to respond if you vote?

voting is cheap and costs me nothing? i'm not sure why the idea here is that i should need to vote someone in order to vote them

wagons can potentially be good for gamestate and votes are often used as an indicator of who you're scumreading the most. i think shadi is likely scum so i'm voting him. i'm not going to select who i think is scum as town; if i press something it's because i find it interesting and i don't think most posts are interesting

i can't really make a case or whatever at this stage of the game. it's not like i don't do that kind of thing, it's just far too early

in general i'm still pretty confused what the difference is with votes against shadi vs like any other kind of vote. i get that you don't like votes or whatever and i'm sure you're not faking that but i don't understand the alignment conclusions you're coming to at all

[meowmeow]

well, is it working?

cats are prideful and spiteful animals

[meowmeow]

oops i thought i posted a lot more recently than that >.>

[meowmeow]

I don’t think datisi would agree that Datisi is a good scum player.

you're right, datisi's opinion of his own scum play is much higher than that. i think he would demand you use more superlatives. like, "greatest of all time" or "incredibly amazing"

[meowmeow]

i feel like this game is more difficult than the average mafia game

my feeling is that std+ dunn are town from the last few pages

will try and parse the longer posts better when i get back
.

[meowmeow]

so my laptop broke yay

psychologically i am not very good at parsing and writing long posts

but i will have to try

i might be able to get a chromebook from like 2014 from my parents house tomorrow lmao

[meowmeow]

ok so re shadi

my initial concern was that i thought his vote being based on datisi's posts was really odd when he obviously hadn't read datisi's posts?

his answer to this was that he thought datisi's posts were referring to me hyperposting. i'm sure this is true - it's not really the sort of thing mafia need to lie about or whatever. but it's obviously a super clumsy reading of datisi's post and requires you to like not think about what he's saying at all i think because i don't know how you read that post and not come to the conclusion he agrees with me? which like, i think on some level town do skim posts and it's whatever but specifically bringing that up makes me really feel like he's not actually invested in solving the game.

i think his very, like... passive approach to interacting right now and also before kind of solidifies that? like he's around and posting but the focus is more on responding to people than poking around? which like to some extent he's being pressured and these things happen, but stuff like the sheep read is just... i get being disengaged but when you're around wy do you need prompting to bring that up?

[meowmeow]

i mean the reads aren't super duper strong but for std i think the superbowl read feels kind of good and i got a sorta similar vibe from him

dunn just overall feels relaxed sassy towards bell in a way i associate with town mostly shrug. to be fair this is less a read i developed just now and more a feeling I've maintained for a while

[meowmeow]

i mean the reads aren't super duper strong but for std i think the superbowl read feels kind of good and i got a sorta similar vibe from him

dunn just overall feels relaxed sassy towards bell in a way i associate with town mostly shrug. to be fair this is less a read i developed just now and more a feeling I've maintained for a while

Dunn is full of sass as either alignment.

Interesting reads fellas

also hi i was on holiday in ireland but i am now back and it is time to do things more

[meowmeow]

Dunn is full of sass as either alignment.

yeah to be fair i haven't played with him in a while

i still get towny vibes from him, but it's not a super strong read shrug

[meowmeow]

we can yeet shadi

or superbowl

or even sheep maybe

this game gives me look at postcount find scum vibes idk why

Not sheep... they actually post quite a bit early on as scum

i think sheep tends to post early as town too? i imagine he's just like busy or whatever shrug

[meowmeow]

VOTE: Malakittens

Spicy vote

i think this vote is a pretty good one

[meowmeow]

ok so reads wise, here are my takes on the players in this game

Datisi

ok first of all datisi always rolls scum. this is important if you believe in the gambler's fallacy, or its superior equivalent, anti gambler's fallacy, which holds that if someone keeps rolling scum they keep rolling scum. despite my making fun of him - which i hold to be fully justified in every way - he is actually a very good scum player and that needs to be kept in mind

146 feels +town to me. not sure exactly how to verbalise it, but it comes off as like, weirdly sheepy and lacking conviction, which i think is fairly +town because this stuff can just happen as a result of the game being hard as town; whereas scum datisi i think is good at creating options and it's more difficult to see how his thought process gets to the point where he thinks this is a good post to make.

182 is a bit ??? to me because it's like, why would you think i'm not ausuka? i told you i was making an alt in your discord DMs like a couple weeks before the game started and i don't think my posts are that different. i get being like 'oh i didn't think of that' but sheer shock is a bit strange. however unless someone told him beforehand i was ausuka it's probably not ai at all and idk how likely that is

does datisi try and pocket me and then call me stupid? maybe? i think he would know i wouldn't like that and i'm something of an emotional player so maybe it's slightly +town

as scum once, i pushed datisi because he townread someone pushing on him. i accused him of trying to defuse the situation. he was town in that game. i guess that is to say, i don#t really get what's so unnatural about the bulge read or why town datisi wouldn't make it

overall i lean town on datisi so far, i think

Aristeia

she flirts with datisi a lot. that's not ai it just makes me smile

i originally didn't like 206 because speculation about scumteams or whatever that doesn't involve a serious push on one of the people involved has always felt empty to me and makes me go but also i can kind of see why she would find that datisi post a bit over-the-top so shrug

the read on bell in 389 is interesting. my instinct is to like it, and i can kind of see where she's coming from if town, even if i'm not sure i 100% get it - maybe partially because i lack context? but it's true that bell lacks bite in this game.

yekaterina

so, i don't think katya is town particularly, which i get is an unusual opinion to have. she was scum in the recently completed micro 1087 and just absolutely swept the game so i don't really think i should buy into the narrative that like, she's obvtown because she posts a lot of stuff that looks vaguely thoughtful. obviously if ppl have more specific reasons to townread her i'm happy to hear it; i don't think we should write off any reason to townread a capable scum player but i think a lot of the more common surface level reasons aren't that valid

obviously, i didn't like 167 - i mean i'm biased because like, it's me, and it did explain the post was trying not to give anything away but... meh, i'm just not a fan of the whole exchange

didn't really like 178 like 'you should expect i'll be obvious town' feels a bit like scum trying to be too cheeky to be scum. idk if that makes sense

i don't know if i need to go through the whole honeypot thing again. i'm not sure if anyone except me actually read that. but like, i basically just don't like how light of a wave katya makes towards shadi, not really doing anything there, and calling it a honeypot because after she did that, people wouldn't 'need' to talk to shadi and therefore anyone who does is probably scum? i think it's possible that there's some playstyle difference there because it is incredibly foreign to how i play mafia. but the thing that really got me is the idea that anyone pushing shadi is necessarily like, influenced by her push and being opportunistic, even though it wasn't really a push and was a light and noncommittal idea about how she doesn't really know who scum is. and it comes without really engaging with the reasons why they were doing that. i do still think there is some partner equity there but that's not important for now. of course, there's the whole deal where she doesn't like votes/wagons and that's obviously genuine but it is obviously also aware that a lot of people do not share this view. so like to review, she is asked who scum is, and instead of answering normally sets up a 'honeypot' except the honey attracts people that disagree with it about how wagons work, which she apparently doesn't want to discuss. not to mention she goes to great lengths to emphasise how much she does not really believe in this read which just seems... incredibly counterproductive to the entire purpose. and obviously if she's scum it's a rather intricate thing, but i really do not see the town thought process here, and i think it's a +scum thing to do.

and yeah idk that is basically my whole read on katya. even in her more recent posts, i still don't really understand it or where it's coming from at all in terms of what she's pushing people for and if she's town, what she's going for, who she might like to eliminate. i don't see the thought process behind any of it. but i think part of that *could* be that i play very differently. i mean, i townread it once before, but maybe that game i wasn't as cautious of being snowed; i should probably go back and check. i lean scum on katya right now

the bulge

the bulge. i vibed him as town early, just based on how he was sharing reads and stuff in what i perceived to be a relaxed way. i liked 223 a bit. and like, the superbowl wagon comments are just... could they be from scum? yeah. but i tend to like proactive stuff like this that shows care for the gamestate, understanding things and parsing them so you can read people, sue me.

281 and 283 i have more mixed feelings about. my instinct is to say that unreasonable isn't scummy and that i don't like the approach but after reading the conversation for a while i get what he's saying better? like, the 'reasonable' word stuck in my brain but i think it might just be a red herring because bulge is saying that he doesn't believe datisi's emotional reaction to the question is genuine because he doesn't seem to actually care about the question itself. which seems like a fairly towny line of thinking actually; it's engaging with the thread on something of a deeper level and i think it's something he's put thought into. if he's scum it's very good scumplay.

uh, his more recent posts are more content-free. i can kind of see the desire behind pushing superbowl/presumably the datisi vote is a continuation of earlier so whatever.

Bell

bell has a lot of posts which i don't take a lot out of. 292 is probably the first interesting post in the entire bell iso. i didn't think datisi's read was bad personally - and as i said, i've pushed him for that as scum before, so i don't want to townread this in itself, but at least it's like making observations and doing something?

i don't hate his counter push on ari? most of his poking and pushing seems to lack edge, in the sense he's not really trying to wagon people or push people at any point. in that sense, i agree with aristeia. i am totally unfamiliar with bell, but i don't really get the sense he's forcing himself to be here tho; he's just around, vibing, but not with a strong sense of purpose? and again, idk him or the meta here, but it feels unfair to pick on him for that when a lot of people feel the same or worse.

i think bell acting like my laptop breaking is some sort of mystery or whatever is weird but probably not ai. same w/ blockgate

overall? shrug, i don't really want to kill him today but i don't particularly think he's town either.

Doctor Drew

drew has kind of dropped off, unfortunately. i thought he was towny early on. as i say in 196 i think 186 is a likely townpost because it's counter-intuitive for scum drew to say that about std, unless he's actually scum with std i guess. i also see how someone would sus the datisi vote on drew, so that part is fine. and the scumread on me is fine, or even good; i get where it's coming from and how it would come to a towny thought process even if i don't agree.

however since then he has just been completely low energy? like he pushes datisi for a while, which is meh but whatever, and then he says the push is becoming less productive - yeah sure that makes sense - but he doesn't really follow through on it and totally deflates.

i think this balances out to a townlean; he's been towny enough that i have no interest in pushing him right now but that's not an iron strong read

Dunnstral

i guess it's not that hard to fake but i did like his early drew push? felt believable. i'm biased but i liked 308 because

he was agreeing with me

idk he was pushing me earlier and then called the shadi wagon good and agreed with my comment on ari which feels a bit like towny fluidity. i think the malakittens vote is good. overall, i'm not certain of it but i think dunnstral is town this game

Malakittens

a little background context; i am aware of the malakittens meta. she did some stuff in datisi's cafe and i thought she was probably town because of the meta. she was not town. therefore, i don't really care about the meta.

anyway, her posts are very social, which isn't inherently bad but she does seem to care about that even at the expense of scumhunting. i don't like 373; i'm not entirely sure what she's trying to say about bell, but it seems a lot more interesting than 'drew is always scum' - it just feels off to me in terms of thought process. she could easily be scum here. on the other hand, she is a cat, which gets points

shadi1337

well, i think shadi is the player i need to do this for the least, since i've explained my thoughts on him in some depth already. it could come from town but the townread on katya in 63 is probably what i expect scum to say here? saying he's 'not opposed' to voting datisi when asking bulge about his read feels kind of weird, in the sense i'm not sure why it's there and might be self-conscious. he doesn't like alts existing, which is actually the real reason i scumread him. the rest of these posts are a front. as i said, the read on datisi and me is *very* weird to me, and to me it shows a lack of care in solving the both of us which i dislike; i think you get to the conclusion he did if you very briefly skim datisi's post which town can do but if he's doing that, and still refers to the post to explain his decisions, it feels very very off to me.

and again, if he thinks sheep would 'definitely' be more investigative as town, it's just odd that he needs prompting to bring it up - i don't see the town thought process here really.

i think he was asked about it and didn't respond - the 'one scum' thing feels oddly specific. from his perspective, couldn't there be two? there could also be zero even if he's town but i acknowledge a lot of town players will think that is unlikely

the only thing i can really say in his defence is that if he's mafia, he's probably being bussed, because to me it doesn't really feel like they're trying to save him. and it can be difficult to tell between unmotivated town and unmotivated mafia sometimes; if you don't really care about your win condition, it's hard to tell from your actions what your win conditions is

Save the Dragons

i find std hard to sort. the push on datisi had vaguely good vibes, or at least i, uh... idk how to put it into words, but i think scum std makes the points from 327 without prompting more likely, and i think in general it could come from town easily and scum, like, could approach it this way but i'm not sure they would. think 415 is a believable read? the read would have been solidified if he had questioned me townreading him but shrug.

superbowl9

obviously, i didn't like 137; both the katya read and the ari thing felt rather empty to me, like just saying things to say things. the rest of his posts are equally empty. with 213 it's like... ok? is it scummy, because you're not really following up on it? i mean, none of it can't come from town, but there's rather a lack of anything interesting or towny in his posts and i'm not a fan of it. i guess to his credit most mafia players are better at pretending to do things, but some of the stuff he does looks like an *attempt* to contribute, i'm just not feeling it at all

sheepsaysmeep

sheepsaysmeep. i mean, he's bell's block buddy i guess, whatever that means? maybe they both live in california. well, i'd like him to elaborate on 297 because that post is just there and i'm not sure what the follow through is.

[meowmeow]

so, here's the readslist in a more digestible format;

datisi, dunnstral, the bulge
aristeia, doctor drew, save the dragons
bell
malakittens, sheepsaysmeep, yekaterina
superbowl9, shadi1337

as always, d1 reads are not that strong and tbh if any of my top 3 flipped scum i wouldn't be shocked - maybe if it's literally datisi/dunn/bulge i would be upset about it - but for d1 i'd prefer to kill towards the bottom of the list. obviously.

[meowmeow]

i hope this can make up for my role in the game dying down a bit, i should be usually active going forward as long as i'm at home. and i'm happy to interact if anyone's around

That feels like something you think is factually true as scum but is weird to actually believe

That the people doing jackshit are thus more likely scum

is this elaboratable? like, i assume you are an experienced mafia player and i think lurkers getting shoved is a v common occurrence. what am i missing here

[meowmeow]

also like, sort me then?

[meowmeow]

obviously, i didn't like 137; both the katya read and the ari thing felt rather empty to me, like just saying things to say things.

What draws the line for you between town armchairing gamestate vs scum faking contributions?

i mean it's possible town you decided to say those things, i think they increase the likelihood of you being scum because at a glance they look content like but i can't really see it - i can't say i'm too familiar with town 'armchairing gamestate' or what that entails

pedit: i won't go over it in detail because whatever, but people have been bringing up my scum game for a pretty long time, not townreading me because of it, etc. frankly they are right to do so and that is sensible. the alternative seems rather silly to me.

[meowmeow]

the only thing i can really say in his defence is that if he's mafia, he's probably being bussed, because to me it doesn't really feel like they're trying to save him.

by who?

it's a gamestate read. if you're asking who on the wagon i would believe more or less likely to be mafia, it has not changed since i made a reads list.

pedit: ok? did i say you were unsortable? i said people shouldn't townread you too easily, which is true. similarly, people shouldn't townread me too easily. or datisi. etc etc

[meowmeow]

obviously if ppl have more specific reasons to townread her i'm happy to hear it; i don't think we should write off any reason to townread a capable scum player but i think a lot of the more common surface level reasons aren't that valid

i mean, my thought process was that i don't remember any specific reason to townread you which i liked, which made me want to caution against like easily vibereading for stuff like activity etc which a lot of people do instinctively, because there are indeed a lot of scum players who struggle to do that and it is very +town for them. i don't think it's about effort, it's about the process of sorting which is pretty different. most people haven't explained their reads on you, and i don't really feel like pushing them to do so - given most people townread you there is a zero chance you get eliminated today and people can just continue their process of posting however they want. i think often, not interfering with that gives you better reads - with the 'sorting' thing you keep mentioning, i am sorting in the way i do it. i ask questions if i find something that interests me, which i think is reasonably common; i think if there's nothing i want more detail about, asking things tends to be slightly worse because if people just... post whatever they want, it's more true to their instinctive motives which is easier to read for alignment. i think reading people's posts and deciding if things are towny and scummy is actively sorting

in terms of solving the game; i think particularly if you're town we think extremely differently and it will be difficult to like do a town jam session and get a perfect sweep, but we can certainly try. what about bell? you said he was town, right? in terms of struggling to read, he's the only truly 'neutral' read on my list, so it seems like a good choice

[meowmeow]

255 is fine? arguably he's narrating his own feelings there which might be what ari is getting at but it's true that scum bell could easily have kept pushing datisi and started a 1v1 that people would roll their eyes at and townread him for posting or like, whatever. i guess he doesn't need to pull back there if he's scum and doesn't have anything else to push

having an actual read on sheep is something i sort of like and although i'm not sure if he feels like explaining, i do see how someone would get there

making fun of the laptop thing could be towny? it's the sort of thing i was townreading dunn for so maybe bell would disapprove of that read lmao

ari is smart but also playing 'sheep ari' sounds kind of not that entertaining and also if you take it far enough ari has less material to sort ppl with i think

[meowmeow]

shrug, i mean maybe i'm just more of a wing it mafia player but i don't think doing stuff in real time is like exceptionally more difficult as mafia - i think it's fakeable just not sure he would fake it now that i think about it. i understand the pov though, i know there is a school of thought about interacting with people in real time

ari hasn't really given reads yet unless i am having like a major brain moment. except bell but like yeah that's what we're talking about. i guess she also townreads datisi but i agree with that

[meowmeow]

does datisi being upset with me for not voting feel like,

right? to you

like it is logical and reasonable of course and he is probably correct regarding why my play bad

but does the way in which expressed feel like, town?

it's not really something i think is ai, i think datisi could write that easily as both alignments

[meowmeow]

meow said my latest posts are content-free but idk what she is talking about

i don't think i said that? i do think your posts got less interesting/contentful as time transpired but i townread you anyway

[meowmeow]

wdym by the way i am clarifying is townie? can you give like an example and why it is townie?

264 Wants to clarify
354 Does not want to clarify
362 Back to clarifying

I find that towny. If you wanted to just slap a SR you could have if you wanted to just fight criticism you could have. Changing back and forth based on what you think is helpful is town

530 and 538 if you want something recent. (Admittedly this had to be prompted w/ backlash to your "do work for me town" which takes away cookie points)
Bell is TOT wallposting but trying to boil that down into something nice and readable is in the best interest of town imo.

It's not just that series of posts but is writing an essay on every nuance of my read on you what you want? I could have literally just said "Feel" and it would mean the exact same thing as what I'm writing.
It's not 1 or 2 or 4 posts that pinged me nor is it specifically only this attribute of clarity/obfuscation its an overall impression of your mindset.

i actually kind of like this tbh

[meowmeow]

does datisi being upset with me for not voting feel like,

right? to you

like it is logical and reasonable of course and he is probably correct regarding why my play bad

but does the way in which expressed feel like, town?

it's not really something i think is ai, i think datisi could write that easily as both alignments

it's not about

could

write that easily as either alignment of course it could

like i pretty strongly believe that anyone could write pretty much any post as any alignment if they wanted to (like if i can post somewhat competently as a scums anyone can)

i guess maybe i just have zero understanding of how you go about determining which alignment posts might be coming from it felt like datisi was upset with me for how i was playing (justified) but was also threatening a scumread for this when it has been scumreading me and pairing me with whoever throughout anyway and also felt maybe disproportionate and also like, it probably knows helping me to who to vote more effective if town if datisi feels he has a better idea who to eliminate than i do

i mean, of course he theoretically could write that post as both alignments? i just think that in addition to that, it could just... easily come from town datisi or scum datisi. it is really not difficult to imagine either scenario for me. i do not see it as a particularly alignment indicative post. etc etc

[meowmeow]

eh meowmeow iso is like, okay

big post worries me maybe more than it should

but it just feels like there is perspective issue with regards to her reads and approach to me (and i guess also get the same feeling with her reads of datisi as well though presents itself differently of course)

like it's just like, 'i have noted these specific scummy things and noted nothing that could potentially be towny from you and even if i did it wouldn't count because! you won this recent scumgame even though none of the things i have noted are scummy about you in this game have comparables in that game or anything'

and its pretty hard to see town!her just finding nothing at all to be towny about town!me i guess doesn't even feel like she wants to

i mean i don't particularly want to find things to townread about you. i could have found things that are slightly +town if i tried hard enough? your talking to me about datisi was maybe + town

i don't really see the point in writing things that don't especially stand out to me just for a balanced analysis or whatever, that post was long enough as it is

[meowmeow]

I don't know - I think it's kind of weird to think one scum would use another scum as a "honeypot" because highlighting a partner in such a way is p ???


maybe as an anti-associative? but even then the risks do not really make that much sense with the reward which is p bleh?

but like I don't see why town!ausuka can't think it - I think scum tend to make more sense than town usually because town just say what they think whereas scum tend to first double triple check things to make sure what they say "makes sense"

the read was based on the fact that i think pushing on shadi there would have happened like exactly the same regardless of if she made the incredibly non-commital honeypot or not. i think scum like making a show of pushing or at least interacting with their partners at some point, and i thought the way she made the interactions with shadi about her and this weird honeypot thing was very

like if they're scum together i think it makes more sense from the pov of 'i want to make the situation look like i had more to do with the pressure building on my scum partner than i actually did'

maybe that doesn't make sense or whatever shrug

[meowmeow]

like it feels like if meowmeow is town is likely following datisi's logic in terms of 'if can't follow her thought process, then a scums' which comes from datisi mostly being familiar with 2020-21 me and like, shouldn't be applicable for meowmeow? based on her own experience

it kind of factored into my thinking at the start but has not been a big thing for me for most of the game

[meowmeow]

well if she read 1087 I would think she is familiar with your scumplay and has reason to be wary of it.

she's not really trying to get you voted off so what is the point of the read if she is mafia?

does me doing things that 'don't make sense' or whatever, such as with the honeypot, seem likely to come from scum!me based on that game though? or the other things she has found issue with?

like it felt to me like she was citing that game to say, 'look the things i am saying make sense, i am wary of it and everyone else should be too it just won this game' without actually taking anything from that game to apply here alignment wise

and to counter a narrative that doesn't really exist about me being town for saying vaguely towny things and such

could be longer term thing like i backburner plenty of things like that as a scums i assume meowmeow does as well could be to because finds it an easier interaction axis could be to push things in opposition to me while not trying to eliminate me, like there are plenty of options and it's probably a combination of many if she's a scums

idk i can't just start townreading everyone who pushes me at any point because they're unlikely to get me eliminated and they probably know that

and she started off townreading me in a preemptive way anyway

and much of the other things predate completion of micro 1087 so i don't know when the 'wariness' might have even started applying into thoughts if town

i mean, micro 1087 did not play into my scumread you at all

i don't actually know *exactly why* people are townreading you but i felt it was happening too quickly and i didn't understand it so i felt like it was worth bringing up

again, there is like... not a downside to bringing this up. like there isn't a downside to voting someone i scumread. i'm not sure why the standard is that i have to 'need' to do things for me to do them

[meowmeow]

like why wouldn’t you want to find town!me it’s probably easier than finding scum!me i guess i don’t get it

i just don't think you've been towny is the crux of the issue i guess

i'm not sure this is that productive anynmore shrug

[meowmeow]

i mean there are a couple things which i could call towny now i guess but not back then

[meowmeow]

i guess dunnstral's recent posts have been like not fantastic, there's a slight lack of bite there?

i think the sheep read is fine tbh

would be interested to hear his thoughts on shadi now since he said he likes the wagon and hasn't said anything else since then but seemed to prefer a mala vote that he didn't actually believe in very strongly?

[meowmeow]

uh the superbowl wagon is like

i'm not as enthusiastic about it as the shadi wagon?

but i don't hate it either and realistically will probably end up voting there

there have been some places where he sounds like town genuinely believing what he's saying. like when he explains the ari read and he's like, "oh this is something most people don't pay attention to, how people like me strategically withdraw information!" and then in the next post he's like "oh ari is town because she didn't want to explain her datisi read but asked others about theirs" and suddenly i feel like he's townreading ari waaaay too easily and it's scummy

[meowmeow]

Spoiler:

ok so reads wise, here are my takes on the players in this game

Datisi

ok first of all datisi always rolls scum. this is important if you believe in the gambler's fallacy, or its superior equivalent, anti gambler's fallacy, which holds that if someone keeps rolling scum they keep rolling scum. despite my making fun of him - which i hold to be fully justified in every way - he is actually a very good scum player and that needs to be kept in mind

146 feels +town to me. not sure exactly how to verbalise it, but it comes off as like, weirdly sheepy and lacking conviction, which i think is fairly +town because this stuff can just happen as a result of the game being hard as town; whereas scum datisi i think is good at creating options and it's more difficult to see how his thought process gets to the point where he thinks this is a good post to make.

182 is a bit ??? to me because it's like, why would you think i'm not ausuka? i told you i was making an alt in your discord DMs like a couple weeks before the game started and i don't think my posts are that different. i get being like 'oh i didn't think of that' but sheer shock is a bit strange. however unless someone told him beforehand i was ausuka it's probably not ai at all and idk how likely that is

does datisi try and pocket me and then call me stupid? maybe? i think he would know i wouldn't like that and i'm something of an emotional player so maybe it's slightly +town

as scum once, i pushed datisi because he townread someone pushing on him. i accused him of trying to defuse the situation. he was town in that game. i guess that is to say, i don#t really get what's so unnatural about the bulge read or why town datisi wouldn't make it

overall i lean town on datisi so far, i think

Aristeia

she flirts with datisi a lot. that's not ai it just makes me smile

i originally didn't like 206 because speculation about scumteams or whatever that doesn't involve a serious push on one of the people involved has always felt empty to me and makes me go but also i can kind of see why she would find that datisi post a bit over-the-top so shrug

the read on bell in 389 is interesting. my instinct is to like it, and i can kind of see where she's coming from if town, even if i'm not sure i 100% get it - maybe partially because i lack context? but it's true that bell lacks bite in this game.

yekaterina

so, i don't think katya is town particularly, which i get is an unusual opinion to have. she was scum in the recently completed micro 1087 and just absolutely swept the game so i don't really think i should buy into the narrative that like, she's obvtown because she posts a lot of stuff that looks vaguely thoughtful. obviously if ppl have more specific reasons to townread her i'm happy to hear it; i don't think we should write off any reason to townread a capable scum player but i think a lot of the more common surface level reasons aren't that valid

obviously, i didn't like 167 - i mean i'm biased because like, it's me, and it did explain the post was trying not to give anything away but... meh, i'm just not a fan of the whole exchange

didn't really like 178 like 'you should expect i'll be obvious town' feels a bit like scum trying to be too cheeky to be scum. idk if that makes sense

i don't know if i need to go through the whole honeypot thing again. i'm not sure if anyone except me actually read that. but like, i basically just don't like how light of a wave katya makes towards shadi, not really doing anything there, and calling it a honeypot because after she did that, people wouldn't 'need' to talk to shadi and therefore anyone who does is probably scum? i think it's possible that there's some playstyle difference there because it is incredibly foreign to how i play mafia. but the thing that really got me is the idea that anyone pushing shadi is necessarily like, influenced by her push and being opportunistic, even though it wasn't really a push and was a light and noncommittal idea about how she doesn't really know who scum is. and it comes without really engaging with the reasons why they were doing that. i do still think there is some partner equity there but that's not important for now. of course, there's the whole deal where she doesn't like votes/wagons and that's obviously genuine but it is obviously also aware that a lot of people do not share this view. so like to review, she is asked who scum is, and instead of answering normally sets up a 'honeypot' except the honey attracts people that disagree with it about how wagons work, which she apparently doesn't want to discuss. not to mention she goes to great lengths to emphasise how much she does not really believe in this read which just seems... incredibly counterproductive to the entire purpose. and obviously if she's scum it's a rather intricate thing, but i really do not see the town thought process here, and i think it's a +scum thing to do.

and yeah idk that is basically my whole read on katya. even in her more recent posts, i still don't really understand it or where it's coming from at all in terms of what she's pushing people for and if she's town, what she's going for, who she might like to eliminate. i don't see the thought process behind any of it. but i think part of that *could* be that i play very differently. i mean, i townread it once before, but maybe that game i wasn't as cautious of being snowed; i should probably go back and check. i lean scum on katya right now

the bulge

the bulge. i vibed him as town early, just based on how he was sharing reads and stuff in what i perceived to be a relaxed way. i liked 223 a bit. and like, the superbowl wagon comments are just... could they be from scum? yeah. but i tend to like proactive stuff like this that shows care for the gamestate, understanding things and parsing them so you can read people, sue me.

281 and 283 i have more mixed feelings about. my instinct is to say that unreasonable isn't scummy and that i don't like the approach but after reading the conversation for a while i get what he's saying better? like, the 'reasonable' word stuck in my brain but i think it might just be a red herring because bulge is saying that he doesn't believe datisi's emotional reaction to the question is genuine because he doesn't seem to actually care about the question itself. which seems like a fairly towny line of thinking actually; it's engaging with the thread on something of a deeper level and i think it's something he's put thought into. if he's scum it's very good scumplay.

uh, his more recent posts are more content-free. i can kind of see the desire behind pushing superbowl/presumably the datisi vote is a continuation of earlier so whatever.

Bell

bell has a lot of posts which i don't take a lot out of. 292 is probably the first interesting post in the entire bell iso. i didn't think datisi's read was bad personally - and as i said, i've pushed him for that as scum before, so i don't want to townread this in itself, but at least it's like making observations and doing something?

i don't hate his counter push on ari? most of his poking and pushing seems to lack edge, in the sense he's not really trying to wagon people or push people at any point. in that sense, i agree with aristeia. i am totally unfamiliar with bell, but i don't really get the sense he's forcing himself to be here tho; he's just around, vibing, but not with a strong sense of purpose? and again, idk him or the meta here, but it feels unfair to pick on him for that when a lot of people feel the same or worse.

i think bell acting like my laptop breaking is some sort of mystery or whatever is weird but probably not ai. same w/ blockgate

overall? shrug, i don't really want to kill him today but i don't particularly think he's town either.

Doctor Drew

drew has kind of dropped off, unfortunately. i thought he was towny early on. as i say in 196 i think 186 is a likely townpost because it's counter-intuitive for scum drew to say that about std, unless he's actually scum with std i guess. i also see how someone would sus the datisi vote on drew, so that part is fine. and the scumread on me is fine, or even good; i get where it's coming from and how it would come to a towny thought process even if i don't agree.

however since then he has just been completely low energy? like he pushes datisi for a while, which is meh but whatever, and then he says the push is becoming less productive - yeah sure that makes sense - but he doesn't really follow through on it and totally deflates.

i think this balances out to a townlean; he's been towny enough that i have no interest in pushing him right now but that's not an iron strong read

Dunnstral

i guess it's not that hard to fake but i did like his early drew push? felt believable. i'm biased but i liked 308 because

he was agreeing with me

idk he was pushing me earlier and then called the shadi wagon good and agreed with my comment on ari which feels a bit like towny fluidity. i think the malakittens vote is good. overall, i'm not certain of it but i think dunnstral is town this game

Malakittens

a little background context; i am aware of the malakittens meta. she did some stuff in datisi's cafe and i thought she was probably town because of the meta. she was not town. therefore, i don't really care about the meta.

anyway, her posts are very social, which isn't inherently bad but she does seem to care about that even at the expense of scumhunting. i don't like 373; i'm not entirely sure what she's trying to say about bell, but it seems a lot more interesting than 'drew is always scum' - it just feels off to me in terms of thought process. she could easily be scum here. on the other hand, she is a cat, which gets points

shadi1337

well, i think shadi is the player i need to do this for the least, since i've explained my thoughts on him in some depth already. it could come from town but the townread on katya in 63 is probably what i expect scum to say here? saying he's 'not opposed' to voting datisi when asking bulge about his read feels kind of weird, in the sense i'm not sure why it's there and might be self-conscious. he doesn't like alts existing, which is actually the real reason i scumread him. the rest of these posts are a front. as i said, the read on datisi and me is *very* weird to me, and to me it shows a lack of care in solving the both of us which i dislike; i think you get to the conclusion he did if you very briefly skim datisi's post which town can do but if he's doing that, and still refers to the post to explain his decisions, it feels very very off to me.

and again, if he thinks sheep would 'definitely' be more investigative as town, it's just odd that he needs prompting to bring it up - i don't see the town thought process here really.

i think he was asked about it and didn't respond - the 'one scum' thing feels oddly specific. from his perspective, couldn't there be two? there could also be zero even if he's town but i acknowledge a lot of town players will think that is unlikely

the only thing i can really say in his defence is that if he's mafia, he's probably being bussed, because to me it doesn't really feel like they're trying to save him. and it can be difficult to tell between unmotivated town and unmotivated mafia sometimes; if you don't really care about your win condition, it's hard to tell from your actions what your win conditions is

Save the Dragons

i find std hard to sort. the push on datisi had vaguely good vibes, or at least i, uh... idk how to put it into words, but i think scum std makes the points from 327 without prompting more likely, and i think in general it could come from town easily and scum, like, could approach it this way but i'm not sure they would. think 415 is a believable read? the read would have been solidified if he had questioned me townreading him but shrug.

superbowl9

obviously, i didn't like 137; both the katya read and the ari thing felt rather empty to me, like just saying things to say things. the rest of his posts are equally empty. with 213 it's like... ok? is it scummy, because you're not really following up on it? i mean, none of it can't come from town, but there's rather a lack of anything interesting or towny in his posts and i'm not a fan of it. i guess to his credit most mafia players are better at pretending to do things, but some of the stuff he does looks like an *attempt* to contribute, i'm just not feeling it at all

sheepsaysmeep

sheepsaysmeep. i mean, he's bell's block buddy i guess, whatever that means? maybe they both live in california. well, i'd like him to elaborate on 297 because that post is just there and i'm not sure what the follow through is.

This is an insightful post; town points.

wait you read allat???

literally malding

[meowmeow]

thank you datisi i appreciate it

[meowmeow]

did he get cancelled I vaguely remember that

This is an insightful post; town points.

[meowmeow]

Malakittens - meh

meowmeow* - my gut scumreads this hard, but like idk im not really interested in exploring the lim today. I think she had a good nugget about shadi's treatment of me being weird, where when shadi was prompted he was like "sheep is definitely very different than town game" but then why did he need prompting? and then later he was like that thought about sheep wasn't strong at all. idk it was weird and ausuka wrote about it very nicely

Shadi1337 - I think in the end my gut townreads this but like if it dies fine. I think from quite recent experience on MU scumreads about his General overall passivity aren't really accurate. he was like very IIOA-y day 1 and it bugged me and then like suddenly D2 solved the game I guess. I think he had some like non-appeasey comments that seemed slightly +town for him idrk lol I wouldn't actively defend this

Dunnstral - gut scumread. he's fine but like, something feels different from recent towngames with him, he's less like blunt and more trying to be like peppy tonally I guess it feels like abstractly lmao idk

Doctor Drew* - meh

superbowl9 - I think my current inclination is to just vote this? meh and like, ari townread that they were describing felt very fake. im on page 31

The Bulge - idk, meh

Save The Dragons* - gut town lol but idk

no real scum reads that pop out

sheep i don't really feel very carried right now

[meowmeow]

oh we have 11 hours huh

i knew we were close-ish, but i thought there was more time than that

maybe the time for shadi super wagon does not really exist here

[meowmeow]

and fwiw i think my reads are like

largely similar to the large post still?

like maybe i'd change a few things but i don't think i've flipped entirely on anyone since then

maybe that's bad but shrug i haven't felt many things that strongly recently.

i guess i would add shadi feels like hanging back more? and it's working in terms of the wagon attention isn't on him

[meowmeow]

personally i think dunnstral is town because he calls my post insightful and i want to believe people actually like my posts

[meowmeow]

every good girl needs a little thug

me and datisi

[meowmeow]

current vc is at

superbowl9 (5): Aristeia, Save The Dragons, Doctor Drew, Datisi, sheepsaysmeep
Datisi (3): Bell, yekaterina, superbowl9
meowmeow (2): Shadi1337, The Bulge
Doctor Drew (2): Malakittens, Dunnstral
Shadi1337 (1): meowmeow

[meowmeow]

would be interested to hear the sheepsaysmeep datisi case

i guess i should iso the wagons again but i imagine i'll just vote superbowl

superbowl should probably, like, claim btw

[meowmeow]

peta calling me out for missing the ari unvote

i can respect that

[meowmeow]

why is superbowl even scumreading datisi

there's like one line about him being a late game detriment or something from about a week ago

[meowmeow]

didn't really get the vibe from his post that it was that, although i think it was a good push and even if he didn't think so there's no reason to sus datisi for it over me. something about "his posts aren't ai and will be a late game detriment" and then "not exactly why i'm voting you" and he hasn't really said anything more about it since, like, post 250.

[meowmeow]

i don't think he said that while voting for the first time

i did kind of forget 994 so thanks datisi

[meowmeow]

i just really strongly disagree with the idea posting more = easy to read and typed out a whole post about it but unsure how productive this discussion is

[meowmeow]

i mean, i'm talking about what *you* just said, which is about thought process

like

how many players are out there that hyperpost and DON'T write their thought process? i mean really?

[meowmeow]

i mean, i'm talking about what *you* just said, which is about thought process

like

how many players are out there that hyperpost and DON'T write their thought process? i mean really?

if you’re trying to say i am not easier to read when i am posting like this you should probably look at some of my older scumgames when being ‘unreadable’ was part of general approach

i don't really care about the hyperposting thing much anymore, it was early game and since i disagree with you on basically everything mafia-related apparently it is not particularly surprising i would disagree with you on this as well. it might well be true that hyperposting is easier to read than being unreadable on purpose, i guess.

but the argument that datisi is scum for asking about it does not really hold water to me because i strongly disagree with the idea that it inherently made sense & wasn't worth pressing at all and he is scum for doing so

[meowmeow]

you should help me bus

[meowmeow]

i don't hate 994 actually although i'd like him to elaborate a bit on the 'backfooted' thing yeah - i assume it's related to datisi not caring much about the game?

[meowmeow]

i don't think my take has really changed tbh

the superb owl wagon is like, fine i guess. i will vote there to prevent no lim or whatever. if we have time there are probably better options. like shadi or maybe malakittens

hyperposting people can get killed which is easy to sort but i find they tend to be very difficult to sort if they do not get killed

i also don't really think hyperposting you is more likely to get killed than hyperposting [other person] shrug

[meowmeow]

you should help me bus

what's the one sentence summary on Shadi?

the part where he sheeped a post which i don't think he read is probably still the scummiest post in the game and the sheep thing was weird because why does he have to be asked about sheep to bring it up, sort of feels lethargic in a way i just don't like

i mean i won't deny that shadi isn't confirmed scum or whatever. d1 is hard but i think he's more likely to flip scum than other players

[meowmeow]

i mean i won't deny that i found superbowl's posting hard to understand

he said he didn't want to continue and i didn't want to keep pressing the issue

it felt like a pretty vague nothing-post at the time, alongside the ari 'are you scum?' thing which was also vague nothing-posting, and he felt like he was scum forcing himself to Do Things

iirc i cared less about it after you did your whole thing because if you think it's a good thing to say town superbowl can probably think the same thing, unless you're scum together but that just feels like getting into "anyone who disagrees with me is scum" territory

i think datisi saw the same things i did, and our pushes on it were largely the same. idk if superbowl specified what datisi was doing scummy and i just didn't get it? but like i don't think it was a bad thing for datisi to do shrug

[meowmeow]

i would hammer datisi over no elimination

i would prefer to do that to superbowl, probably

[meowmeow]

VOTE: superbowl9

[meowmeow]

presumably yekaterina will revote datisi at some point

in which case the vote will be decided by a council of aristeia, dunnstral and malakittens

[meowmeow]

i mean prove me wrong if you want! i thought you unvoted for more time for whatever reason but i didn't really feel like you would 180 considering it felt like you hated the superbowl wagon and would prefer to kill datisi by a lot when you were talking to me about it

[meowmeow]

ok

[meowmeow]

ok i'm very likely to spend the majority of my last living hour of my life here playing phasmo, so like if you (pliral) have any questions for me please let me know sooner rather than later

cats or frogs?

[meowmeow]

i can hammer datisi

i'll do it quickly and comfortably my sweet prince

(i would def be willing to listen to your reads but i feel like you would know better what reads you are confident in / want to share)

[meowmeow]

to vote datisi or not to vote datisi

pros:
hammering datisi is fun
small chance no one else is going to do it and we no eliminate

cons:
if he flips scum i will be statistically more likely to be his partner
if he flips town someone like titus might replace in later and think i scumread datisi because of vca

[meowmeow]

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VOTE: datisi

[meowmeow]

i can't believe it got stolen from me smh

[meowmeow]

just because i went to find the rainbow text generator

[meowmeow]

VOTE: shadi

[meowmeow]

like your reasoning can’t be that shadi1337 didn’t get pushed over instead of datisi because shadi1337 is a scums when… you were more easily pushed over based on count at that time, yeah?

like in the post you just quoted where I compiled where everyone was standing four hours before deadline you were elimable at that time why would scums have felt the need to push datisi over to protect shadi1337

@superbowl9

i don't really see what the issue is here

i don't think shadi is scum because people didn't vote him - scum only make up 1/6 of possible votes and are often just as likely to vote scum d1 as town is anyway

but i do feel like shadi was hanging back a little and letting ppl forget about him which let him survive more easily

[meowmeow]

I put forward the notion that The Bulge dying is significant info. Mafia would have been trying to eliminate a mason, and would have used The Bulge's posts to make a judgement call on them. They wouldn't have thought The Bulge could be a mason based on how The Bulge interacted with mafia.

maybe? but personally i feel like they might just target people who are widely townread as masons, rather than specifically trying to find potential mason interactions

[meowmeow]

i mean i hardly think shadi would be hyperposting if he was town here; i doubt his actual activity patterns are ai

i do get the vibe his posting towards the end of the day felt more, idk, safe and passive? which is what i was referring to

[meowmeow]

to be clear i will be considering people other than shadi today but i'm going to wait a bit

[meowmeow]

i feel like you might be talking to me but if you are, no that did not happen

it was like exactly the opposite; he unvoted me when i became not a viable wagon, which i was for a long time, and voted datisi

[meowmeow]

i kinda think the datisi vote was just openwolfy tbh

i would have liked it more if it was just openly a survival vote

[meowmeow]

yes i'm aware i could have been eliminated d1 but the {datisi, meow} voters were kind of an overlapping constituency for the most part, and by the time shadi unvoted it was pretty clear those votes were going towards datisi rather than me

unless you're just saying something tangential in which case, uh yeah i think ari is probably town

[meowmeow]

i mean, i tried to defend datisi! apparently my arguments were not up to such lofty standards

[meowmeow]

it's no one, but i don't really feel like i have the ability to just... find them? like, in my opinion, most posts are nai, and a lot of the posts which are ai aren't super strongly so

there's no reason i can't go through people again and think about them - well, i was going to do that anyway, but later in the day. because i want to watch how people enter d2. but to me, the end goal isn't really to reach a specific read. i don't want to force myself to be very confident that someone is town if i don't feel that way.

i think like... dunnstral and std i have some town feelings on but there isn't enough from them to be confident in that

i actually think sheep could be town here also

[meowmeow]

fwiw i was reading the thread

i guess i just like, was waiting for something to comment on and felt like leaning back for a bit since i didn't have anything to push except the shadi thing, and like things were slow and didn't really catch my interest and this just kind of happened

sorry peta

[meowmeow]

i should probably have an opinion on the shadi readslist. it's just kind of there to me. like i don't think any of it is difficult for scum to write at all but there's nothing i don't think town can write either

[meowmeow]

I put forward the notion that The Bulge dying is significant info. Mafia would have been trying to eliminate a mason, and would have used The Bulge's posts to make a judgement call on them. They wouldn't have thought The Bulge could be a mason based on how The Bulge interacted with mafia.

maybe? but personally i feel like they might just target people who are widely townread as masons, rather than specifically trying to find potential mason interactions

Who was expressing a townread on The Bulge yesterday?

Going off of your theory, those people are more likely to be town, as I doubt mafia kill someone only they are townreading.

hm, i guess i should answer this? to me it's just like, i don't think anyone was pushing the bulge which made me think that could be the reason for the kill

i was townreading bulge and i didn't get the sense anyone else disagreed with that, so it made sense to me that would be the reason because like, to me my reason for commenting is that i think masons would probably sometimes avoid interacting with each other much instead of explicitly townreading each other. and it makes sense to me the mafia might have thought this way too

[meowmeow]

I would guess he's trying to measure how much conviction you have that superbowl is actually going to flip mafia

Are you certain Bell has town intentions?

is this trying to shade ari? i didn't read it that way at first but now i am reading it that way

[meowmeow]

I feel that Doctor Drew is being disingenuous in their arguments.

oh i didn't mention this but i'm adding dunnstral to my towncrew

[meowmeow]

drew is difficult to read because i find him scummy when he's scum but i also find him scummy when he's town

i think bell is being rather towny in this interaction and don't see the drew pov at all but like again i am aware of the need to be cautious with drew

[meowmeow]

Oh open wolfing is probably my favorite part of being scum, outside of crafting a clever fake claim.

So fun to be right in your face as scum, hence why I always look for the open wolf.

Pre Edit: I can respect that, I am starting to realize that I want to just understand you more......you are a puzzle that is causing me fits.

tbh this just makes me feel like drew is open wolfing

[meowmeow]

tbh i'm not entirely sure what the case on superbowl is right now

[meowmeow]

i don't think my 'shadi case' has really changed since the last time i posted it.

i'm not like supremely confident shadi flips scum - i actually thought saying bulge was scummy is kinda towny - but i don't really feel that way about superbowl either

[meowmeow]

I guess from skimming the last pages REALLY roughly it doesn't seem like Super Bowl really was trying to save themself by voting a more-viable counterwagon rather than datisi lol I guess I don't actually rly think this flips scum deep down

i am kind of surprised by the sheepsaysmneep progression on superbowl

what changed in your heart of hearts

[meowmeow]

meh i guess superbowl's datisi read isn't great and he hasn't exactly done anything towny even if the ari read doesn't seem that bad to me.

i would like to feel strongly about him but he's just a pool of meh where i wouldn't be surprised whatever he flips shrug

not a big malakittens fan rn

[meowmeow]

not really

i don't have a super strong sense of reads tbh i was kind of hoping things would like roll ahead withgout me and i could just observe but thsat hasn't really been happening

[meowmeow]

the main thing i was worried about with mala is the thing where she forgot her read on me and then said she confused me with katya? i mean both of us aren't exactly lurkers, it feels like the reads lists are just there without anything behind them.

i mean i wasn't townreading mala anyway? she's generally difficult to read for me

[meowmeow]

dannflor save the game pls

[meowmeow]

I reject this vote

sheep why are you now this confident in scumperbowl after making a point of how much you were doubting the read yesterday?

[meowmeow]

I’m quite easy to read (:

can you give me the malakittens guide to reading malakittens then

[meowmeow]

i would hammer datisi over no elimination

i would prefer to do that to superbowl, probably

also can you explain why you preferred a datisi lim to superbowl here? that feels incongruent with your trajectories on the slots but maybe im missing something here

i didn't? i would prefer to hammer superbowl

[meowmeow]

'do that' = hammering

[meowmeow]

meowmeow can you dig into your superbowl read please

i was suspicious of him early d1. since then he simply has not done like... basically anything that appears especially towny or scummy to me

i have isod him to try and change this because i didn't especially understand the wagon on him but it didn't really change anything for me

he will probably end up eliminated today and like shrug i'm kind of fine with that outcome at this point

[meowmeow]

idk shadi seems tonally town to me and i can case it when i stop being lazy

but your tunnel there is really weird to me meowmeow because you've kinda held onto a page 15 read which is like theoretically not scummy but you've held onto it in absence of like wanting to push anything else which kinda feels icky? idk wouldn't town you be jumping around more reads wise? idk it just seems like there is some dissonance between the amount you have wanted a wagon on shadi this game and the amount your case on him from page 15 should actually have weight in your mind

so like what's up with that

you keep repeating the 'page 15' line which is like totally false - at the start of d2 i was talking about how i was scumreading shadi's behaviour re: the end of day for example

i also really just don't like how you seem to be arguing there are no scummy players in the game, except maybe me, and that i should be enthusiastically pushing for a wagon on a null slot - but i shouldn't be pushing for someone i scumread?? like, i'm expected to be both gung ho about wagoning slots i don't care about at all and also reluctant to push a slot i actually do scumread if it doesn't meet certain lofty standards which are unclear to me what they actually are. it feels like you're just trying to spin my actions in the worst possible light.

[meowmeow]

Baaaa

Oh it’s growing again!

VOTE: drew

I have confidence that after my death you will finally town read me.

do you townread malakittens?

[meowmeow]

i mean, this stuff happens in mafia games, i don't think it's necessary to apologise or anything

i do think it's kind of scummy considering what happened last time i went up against scum you but shrug

pedit: i mean ok you kind of pushed me. who else is there you think i should be scumreading? like, you made the point yourself that you think there are a bunch of nullish slots which are difficult to sort which is like exactly what i have been saying shrug

[meowmeow]

Baaaa

Oh it’s growing again!

VOTE: drew

I have confidence that after my death you will finally town read me.

do you townread malakittens?

She is pretty null to me, nothing comes off as towny about her, yet I also can't see scum making that comment about Bulge after the flip.

shrug i mean, i think i've seen scum do that before but i can see why someone would townread it i guess

the post i quoted kinda feels like you're talking as if she's town unless there's something i am missing there?

[meowmeow]

i don't think superbowl would have enough potential mason partners anyway

are we cool to just end the day here or

[meowmeow]

i was kind of procrastinating talking about my dunnstral read but it was a townlean i think i talked about it already at least partially

not sure i have to now

[meowmeow]

VOTE: superbowl9

[meowmeow]

i think drew's reaction to the sb mason claim is pretty uninformed although i'd like him to explain why he thought sb being mason makes sense?

i also don't think bell is especially partnered. probably.

[meowmeow]

i am so surprised he is mafia

look in my defense i voted him d1 ok i should get points for that maybe

[meowmeow]

really it's all your guys's fault for voting datisi

unless you didn't vote datisi i guess

[meowmeow]

I'm a mason so
Can we kill shadi now please?

I think this actually makes sense

UNVOTE:

this is such a weird reaction though for you to make about your scum partner

wait how did that even make sense

this is literally just what i said d2 that you seem to think is so bad or whatever

[meowmeow]

i mean like

i don't get it at all but if you feel like you need to eliminate me whatever we're not in a bad spot

i don't understand ari's whole thing of telling everyone she knows who the masons are which just like... tells mafia who the masons are likely to be. can't you just, not? what is the imperative here?

[meowmeow]

VOTE: drew

well i'm fine with this too

drew's reaction could be uninformed but also maybe makes sense if he thought he could get away withj it & it would draw a cc and i haven't exactly been townreading the rest of his game

[meowmeow]

VOTE: drew

well i'm fine with this too

drew's reaction could be uninformed but also maybe makes sense if he thought he could get away withj it & it would draw a cc and i haven't exactly been townreading the rest of his game

I think you have a sitewide post restriction where you can't town read me.

shrug, i won't pretend i have confidence in my record of reading you or something.

people want to kill me or you and i'm not townreading you so shrug. there are some things i wasn't a fan of from you i guess. we're both obviously not mason so it's whatever.

[meowmeow]

i kind of feel like drew and shadi were mislims that superbowl was pushing

why? i feel like superbowl would 1000% bus in this situation

[meowmeow]

i feel like ari's attitude of who cares is a scum attitude

just because she claims she knows who the masons are doesn't mean she actually does

im used to ari being a force in games and she's just not in this one

she probably does know who the masons are or at least thinks she does.

[meowmeow]

which particular situation

he is probably going to die

for whatever reason bussing still works pretty often as an anti-associative even though mafia do it in like every game ever.

[meowmeow]

those are the two options, yes

i mean you're implying she's scum

in which case like

she's making pretty weird kill decisions if she doesn't know who the masons are yeah?

[meowmeow]

but like

he did it when he wasn't going to die

i think superbowl having been pushed for most of the entire game is going to be mindful of associatives.

[meowmeow]

those are the two options, yes

i mean you're implying she's scum

in which case like

she's making pretty weird kill decisions if she knows who the masons are yeah?

meant to say this

[meowmeow]

ok after you kill me you have 7 people left and you get 2 or 3 lims i guess. i'm a vt, obviously.

probably don't kill
bell
std
aristeia
sheep
mala?

maybe do kill
dannflor
drew
shadi

i *think* mafia is probably two of the last three. you don't have to listen to me and in fact i suspect you won't. i would elaborate but like the mason thing and i doubt it would make a difference. if you clear people because superbowl pushed them i will literally haunt you from the dead pt. i'm scary.

feel free to kill me now if you don't want aristeia to waste her time, not sure what else i can really say here.

[meowmeow]

i think i see the writing on the wall here - you aren't going to vote yourself and dannflor isn't going to vote anyone but me, for example

if you're saying i'm wrong, ok great

[meowmeow]

and i mean i don't think i'm guaranteed to die, although it's fairly likely, i'm just saying anything i need to say now so you guys can kill me if/when you want to. feels more efficient that way

[meowmeow]

it's not which is why i am voting drew

it is more efficient in my mind to say anything i would want to say now, and now i have not really anything left to say i think

i guess i should say i felt dannflor knew superbowl was scum from his entrance

[meowmeow]

i believe taking the initiative to tie people to superbowl when it's obvious he's going down is an intuitive thing for mafia to be doing in that position.

if he thinks 'objectively null slots' think scum most of the time, which whatever, i still don't believe he is shocked that only *most* of the playerlist is voting a null slot and not everyone? there are slots like that in many games, and i don't think they get treated more harshly than superbowl did here. like, very few people were townreading shadi etc and he had a pretty 'objectively null' iso in the same sense superbowl did imo, i don't think anything dann said about superbowl *wouldn't* apply to him too. i think it's easier to see the thought process of 'everyone should be voting superbowl' knowing superbowl is scum and then finding him to be really scummy reading through the thread.

and posts like 1540, since scum wouldn't know dunn was going to cc mason or whatever, do a really good job at setting up 2 miselims for d3. it isn't outright *stated* but i think there's a heavy implication there that me and dunnstral are likely scum *with* superbowl because we're treating that slot better than we should be etc etc.

this probably isn't as convincing if you don't know my alignment admittedly. i think it might become clearer knowing me and dunn are both town slots.

[meowmeow]

because i'm scum with dannflor

[meowmeow]

like one of the biggest issues i have with you is that because katya was openly shopping for a superbowl counterwagon between you and datisi she should be like #1 on your suspect list.

i mean she kinda is?

of course if i'm getting wagoned i'm going to vote the other person getting wagoned and could realistically get eliminated.

evertyone but me has been townreading the dannflor slot like hard the whole game basically.

if anything voting him here would just be performative.

[meowmeow]

i dunno what to do with you if you're town here its just fustrating

well i'm sorry i'm not good enough for you queen

i don't think i've done anything that awful but whatever.

[meowmeow]

i mean

i kind of did?

like voting isn't that important imo. early game it can be used as like a symbol of opinions and momentum or whatever, but i don't need to be voting for someone just to suggest they may be scum at this stage of the game. and it's not like i'm townreading drew here

if the day ever becomes not 'meow or drew' i will probably change my vote

or are you saying i shouldn't be voting drew if i think i probably get flipped? i don't really get that perspective, it's the most likely outcome but i don't know it for certain

[meowmeow]

ok sure

VOTE: dannflor

[meowmeow]

Vote Count 1.10

superbowl9

(4):

Aristeia

,

Save The Dragons

,

Doctor Drew

,

Datisi

meowmeow

(3):

Shadi1337

,

yekaterina

,

The Bulge

Shadi1337

(2):

meowmeow

,

sheepsaysmeep

Doctor Drew

(2):

Malakittens

,

superbowl9

Malakittens

(1):

Dunnstral

Datisi

(1):

Bell

(fmpov, obv might want to rearrange colours for others)

i tend not to be a vca person at all but wanted to make note of this one, since the scenario i'm considering is that maybe mafia just did put their hands on the table to help out superbowl whereas usually i feel like town and mafia are like... equally likely to be voting mafia in most circumstances

i think shadi voting me was likely not an attempt actively to counterwagon superbowl, even if they are both mafia? given shadi's gameplay d1 it feels more likely that was just shadi doing his own thing.

this was less useful than i thought it might be but i've invested too much time into it to not post it! i would need to look at drew's iso again but if katya is shopping for counterwagons his behaviour d1 might be, uh, at least counterintuitive. it's possible that's assuming mafia would play too much like a cohesive unit though.

in the future im probably going to focus my efforts on actually reading instead of making pretty colours

[meowmeow]

[meowmeow]

dannflor isn't going to vote anyone but me

hmm why did you say this meowmeow

as mafia i have the factional power of precognition

a more serious response is that you were scumreading me strongly yesterday & the reasoning you were doing so tied me to superbowl who just flipped red. it is not a statement of fact, but it is an educated guess.

[meowmeow]

shrug, i currently feel like mala is town but i can't really explain it?

just vibes

[meowmeow]

[meowmeow]

why did everyone stop playing this game

i don't think having posting sessions once a day is like super unusual for me

[meowmeow]

they are definitely getting miseliminated here as town

i feel like i have said i do not think this multiple times

[meowmeow]

i don't believe dannflor would 'fully townread me' here or then immediately switch back on a dime tbh

[meowmeow]

i also don't think my reaction go getting voted was like... really all that sad and angry tbh

like i made a post saying what i would want to say if people lim me because again i do tend to have one mafia-game-posting session a day?

i don't think i did any of the things dannflor is talking about

[meowmeow]

The problem is if it’s not meowmeow i don’t really know who else it can be

Meowmeow, why is drew in your lim pool?

i don't think drew is super towny

there are some things i could point to as towny and some things i find scummy

ultimately i have pretty low confidence in my ability to read drew in general. if people think drew might be scum, idk maybe he is. i don't think he's as likely to be red as you or even shadi

pedit: do i really need to explain the difference between thinking i would probably get eliminated and saying i would definitely get eliminated?

[meowmeow]

why not

every time you have posted about me in any more detail it has been to thirst for my blood and i just don't feel like it especially makes coherent sense as a thought process.

like, you say you 'keep coming back' to one of my posts, which you call 'performative' and claim i'm saying i'm definitely getting eliminated or whatever. what's towny about that? what's towny enough to not just counterbalance that, but actually outweigh it at one point, and the other things you've been saying about me since you replaced in, and why haven't you brought it up at all?

[meowmeow]

ok im sorry for slightly exaggerating by saying definitely instead of probably

you've been acting like you're probably getting eliminated

it feels a little performative to me ?

i don't really think that's a slight exaggeration at all tbh but ok

[meowmeow]

i have looked at them a bit?

i don't get massively unaligned reads from most of the conflict they had - i think much of it is not inconsistent with how i expect scum to be pushing each other

i think the most unaligned thing in their iso, imo, is when drew unvotes superbowl and says him being a mason makes sense

it just doesn't seem like an intuitive move to me at all because if you're scum you expect that to be drawing a cc and why would you want to call attention to yourself calling superbowl town just before he flips

[meowmeow]

could you explain your reads on like... how involved you would expect mafia to be in the game

[meowmeow]

i'm not not down for just yeeting shadi today tbh because if that slot is town i'm not sure i ever actually come to that conclusion

[meowmeow]

i guess i'm also curious why you felt meow posting d3 was genuine if you can put it into words because i find it hard to have a mental image of how you can think it's both genuine and very not genuine i guess

[meowmeow]

sure lmao probably not worth pushing on topics around the mafia nightkills

[meowmeow]

(not that important but fwiw i dont think me saying i doubt my reads would be listened to is ate, i don't think people really listen to the reads of eliminated town, i don't think i tend to do that either it sounds p dull)

[meowmeow]

i am sort of conflicted in how to respond

i think that makes some sense but it's not like quite enough to make me change gears so my gears are kind of in an uncomfortable stall position

why do you think scum me wouldn't come up with my read of you?

it might be good for me to iso shadi again for due diligence since i might want to actually flip him today

[meowmeow]

lol lmao

[meowmeow]

VOTE: dannflor

i reread d1 and knowing shadi and superbowl were both scum it really is just a consistently awful look in almost every way for katya, which kind of sucks for dannflor but shrug

[meowmeow]

standout point for me is when i say she would prefer to kill datisi vs superbowl or shadi and it just goes like and gets super apprehensive about it, despite that being like obviously her trajectory in the game

[meowmeow]

ok yeah i'm just really confused about the mason situation here now

i thought it was bell/std/mala or sheep shrug

[meowmeow]

yeah tbh most of my mason thoughts were from bell and not really the std end of things although their 1v1 yesterday felt excessively pointless

anyway uh idk hopefully dannflor isn't a Secret Mason and i wasted my time

[meowmeow]

shrug uh idk bell totally could be scum then i guess?

pushing shadi d2 and defending superbowl feels kind of counterintuitive but like what do i know. maybe he expected shadi to flip immediately afterwards

maybe i should just go along with it and hope mafia shoot wrongly and don't realise i'm actually masons with dannflor and aristeia

[meowmeow]

but i am an actress

ooh guys i am a vt i knowwww you guys will kill me so please just remember i am a vanilla townie thank you

[meowmeow]

dannflor i wasn't blaming you for wasting my time or whatever i was blaming myself if anything

[meowmeow]

ok, given that i'm obviously not masons with dannflor

are you guys going to just

discuss this behind the scenes or whatever.

i feel like it's pretty difficult to scumhunt in these circumstances idk.

[meowmeow]

i think this game is like very solvable

this is extremely true if you know the identity of the masons which i don't lmao

like i can try but i'm always going to feel like walking on eggshells regarding the 2 people you know are town and obviously we can't kill today. which fmpov is like, basically half of the potential candidates are secret masons. there are 2 vts 2 masons and 1 scummie.

well that's probably not aristeia but like i mean if you wanted to distance here you totally could idk anyway

[meowmeow]

obviously there are mechanical advantages to stay hidden which is why i proposed you guys could just like talk it out and ask us questions if you need it or want our contributions to something specific? and obviously you could pretend to do that to the other masons etc etc.

i'd honestly be fine with outing at this point if you feel like it's a good idea. it's not mechanically optimal but it could make things easier and like you only have to find 1 person you don't want to kill and mafia already know you (unless it's a dunnstral v2) etc etc

[meowmeow]

UNVOTE:

[meowmeow]

yeah bell are you a mason

[meowmeow]

Daniel Floor why would you hammer here x.x

[meowmeow]

well whatever i guess we still have the chance to autowin and stuff

[meowmeow]

Daniel Floor why would you hammer here x.x

srry

it's ok i don't think anyone suspects we're both masons now

[meowmeow]

the meow/dannflor/aristeia mason team distancing remains undefeated

[meowmeow]

gg everyone and thanks for modding peta

ari u were super good <3

[meowmeow]

yeah bell i think u were good

idk if the mason softing was intentional but it definitely worked on the vt squad

[meowmeow]

std, sheep, dann

[meowmeow]

meowmeow being ausuka makes sense but i never would have guessed it in a million years

for whatever reason her tone registered completely different to me

probably mostly the lack of capital letters

meowmeow: my reads are bad
also meowmeow: first two serious votes are on mafia

yeah i was pretty happy with my early reads list in hindsight

idk how much i did to help town but i tried!!!

[meowmeow]

gg everyone and thanks for modding peta

ari u were super good <3

All of this, sheeping Ari was the correct play lol.

Also meow, please townread me once lol.

never

[meowmeow]

wow both the masons and the mafia really did not like me huh