Mini Normal 2316 | Halloween | Endgame

[SmileyDude1]

Let me take a first post real quick.
VOTE: TheHoldSteady

[SmileyDude1]

VOTE: SmileyDude1
VOTE: Hu Tao
VOTE: AnimatedWiz
VOTE: DragonEater70
VOTE: TheHoldSteady
VOTE: usesPython
Nice to see you guys again!

@mod My name is wrong in the playerlist and VC1.0, could you fix it pls?

Jiminy Crickets that's a lot of votes.

Feelings mutual Heip

[SmileyDude1]

kindest regards to you all .

How have you guys been?

[SmileyDude1]

Anyone here?

Yo.

VOTE: heip 5 feels awkward as hell

From what I remember, Zhu just speaks like that—don’t think the awkwardness is alignment-indicative, personally.

Was wondering where you got this perspective from. The only game you two played together (to my knowledge) was 2311, where Heip was scum. How do you know it's not a scum-indicative trait for him?

[SmileyDude1]

@Dragoneater70
How does this.

Tortle, walk me through these votes

i saw 59 and it failed the vibe check so i voted OWER

i then went back to THS' case and realized that it sucked

Yeah I had the same thought process lol.

Track with this.

Arrrgh fine

VOTE: THS

He's probably town but I'm supposed to be openwolfing so voting for people who are probably town is good for keeping a wolfy image.

[SmileyDude1]

@Dragoneater70
How does this.

Tortle, walk me through these votes

i saw 59 and it failed the vibe check so i voted OWER

i then went back to THS' case and realized that it sucked

Yeah I had the same thought process lol.

Track with this.

Arrrgh fine

VOTE: THS

He's probably town but I'm supposed to be openwolfing so voting for people who are probably town is good for keeping a wolfy image.

How does me voting THS track with having the same thought process as Tortle about THS making a bad case?

Really?

It came off to me like you were originally voting Hold as a joke (Openwolf comment), but then decided to retroactively justify said vote by which felt kind of weird to me.

Mainly wondering how you went from Hold being lean town to lowest read that quickly.

[SmileyDude1]

Smiley can you link a town game of yours?

Let's see if I did this right. Ok I did let's go
viewtopic.php?sid=&f=11&t=91394&user_select%5B%5D=37137

Newbie 2129

[SmileyDude1]

Having skimmed your ISO that game, I feel you are a lot slimier here than in that game

It's probably partially confbias, but I think it warrants a vote and we'll see how this develops.

VOTE: Smiley

Anything concrete when it comes to that read, or is it mostly vibes?

[SmileyDude1]

UNVOTE: Hold

Am down for pressure on the slot, but don't want to chance an early day end here.

Should be E-2 btw.

[SmileyDude1]

Anyone here?

Yo.

VOTE: heip 5 feels awkward as hell

From what I remember, Zhu just speaks like that—don’t think the awkwardness is alignment-indicative, personally.

Was wondering where you got this perspective from. The only game you two played together (to my knowledge) was 2311, where Heip was scum. How do you know it's not a scum-indicative trait for him?

You missed Open 880

Was talking about Animated here.

[SmileyDude1]

Ok, fair enough.

[SmileyDude1]

Anyway, while I don't think THS's wagon is NECESSARILY scum motivated, I do think it's >rand that there would be at least one scum who voted them (regardless of THS's alignment), simply because that's how early game wagons work. I like Wartortle, I hate myself but know am not scum*, I semi-like Pythin and I'm trying to pocket Naerys.

So that leaves SmileyDude1 who I am being told is towny this game, and OWER who I feel is lacking vibes-wise.

VOTE: OWER

*this is a joke, I don't hate myself

I feel like Naerys has the worst vote on the wagon, but like, not enough to do anything about it

Spoiler:

So, what else? Outworlder scum for continuing to push this narrative even when there's new evidence to work against it?

this does not make sense.

in 32 OWER calls dragon scum for self-consciousness

in 33, python says that's normal for town dragon

in 34, OWER can't find town dragon doing something similarly self-conscious

then, THS says that OWER is scum because OWER in 34 would have dropped his bad line of reasoning instead of elaborating and looking at dragon's past game

this is a bad argument.

i do not find python's evidence in 33 convincing enough to make OWER's 34 seem idiotic or scummy, and i do not like how THS tries to frame 33 as completely convincingly refuting OWER's case on dragon.

THS seems suspicious indeed

Like this just gives off bad vibes, feels like she wants to push THS without calling wartle town

Mind Meld. Was thinking the same thing myself earlier today while at work. The timing of the vote combined with the generic agreement as justification pinged me a slight bit.

[SmileyDude1]

Complaining about RVS and a lack of content at the end of page 1 just felt… unnatural? His subsequent posts have been read through that lens, which has likely colored my view of him in a way that’s different from what y’all have been seeing.

Maybe, but would that even be unnatural in a scummy way? I think it's generally +town to exit day 1 RVS sooner rather than later, so I'm not sure I see scum motivation for Wartortle doing that (unless it's like an attemt at a LAMIST, but I don't really get that vibe from them so far).

[SmileyDude1]

Ooops, just notice the prod timer is running out, so prod dodge and I'll catch up tomorrow.

Was interested in your response to Wartortle's 18

[SmileyDude1]

I'm not sure :/

Smiley and THS I was scumreading at some point as well as OWER, but none of these are as strong right now as they were.

I think I want to see more posts from all three of them honestly.

Why are you scumreading these two?

Pedit: I don't really agree Naerys :/

The posts THS made asking Wartortle if he had previous experience felt kind of pointless to me. One of Watortle’s first posts was him mentioning that he was used to shorter days, so I didn’t get why THS was asking if he’d played before after that. It just seemed like fluff posting to me

The only post he’s made so far where he took a stance on something was when he brought up the perspective that OutworldER was scummy.

Smileydude just gives me a weird vibe so far

I was just waiting in the wings for a scum to hop on my bandwagon fot a dumb af reason and here it is.

Again, I'm VLA until Monday

"Hop on the bandwagon"? BlackStar doesn't even have a vote down as of right now (which admittedly bothers me despite him having SR's on two people both of which he could reasonably place a vote down on). Incredibly defensive, my confidence in a THS vote only increases.

I've been accused of being scum in almost every town game I've played on here and my scum games, nobody suspected me. You can't read me brah, but I'm tired of explaining these dumb reasons away. Of course I didn't mean hop on the bandwagon in a literal way. I meant it as a euphemism. What next dumb reasons do you want to bring up?

VOTE: THS

Go ahead, do it. Idc

This feels more like town Hold to me. Feels similar to Micro 1092. I've seen Hold be like this as scum before in Newbie 2126, but I think there was more panic, and underlying self-conciousness there as to here. Probs didn't explain it that well, but it just feels different to me.

[SmileyDude1]

THS raging, calling everybody dumb and self voting felt really townie.

yeah it is, unfortunately

i'm gonna VOTE: python

Why?



ALso, VOTE: Enchant
I really hated that entrance.

Can you elaborate on this? AFAIK Enchant seems to have a jokey NotMafia-esque vibe to them so gut instinct is that's an NAI entrance for them.

[SmileyDude1]

While I have you, what do you think of 210

[SmileyDude1]

As a member of the town, I am interested in everyone's biggest scumread at the moment

I would say at the moment its Naerys for me.

I lean more town on Hold now in light of their response, and given that, I feel like Naerys vote on that wagon was the most opportunistic to me.

VOTE: Naerys

[SmileyDude1]

@Smileydude1

Besides THS, who do you town read right now?

Right now my top townreads are Python and Wartortle. Would put Dragon and Hold right behind them

[SmileyDude1]

I'd say I vibe with OWER's recent posting as well.

AnimatedWiz, i'm somewhat neutral about right now. Like i'm not sensing anything right now that strikes me as unpure about their posting, but i'm not really getting anything that strikes as town either. Might take a deeper look on them at some point if I have time.

[SmileyDude1]

Get good vibes from them. Have mind-melded in multiple instances (105,209)

I vibe with stuff like 37, 102, 199-200 as posts which contribute to the game state

[SmileyDude1]

That was a response to 274 btw (caught a new page)

[SmileyDude1]

I'd say I vibe with OWER's recent posting as well.

AnimatedWiz, i'm somewhat neutral about right now. Like i'm not sensing anything right now that strikes me as unpure about their posting, but i'm not really getting anything that strikes as town either. Might take a deeper look on them at some point if I have time.

Okay so I took another glance at AnimatedWiz's ISO


I feel like I lean towards disagreeing on the idea that AW is avoiding conflict in their posting. Their early case on Wartortle and their 136 read on Dragon indicate otherwise to me. I can see something like 156 being an attempt at disengaging, but I don't think that quite overrides the above for me at the moment.

I think their early Wartortle Case and the Naerys theory show attempts to solve. Though I do agree that it's not a good look to put up the Naerys theory and then elect to not vote behind it.

Would say I feel slightly better about AnimatedWiz after doing this. Would still place them in neutral though for the pursuing Dragon over Naerys thing feeling off to me though.

It's approaching 1:00 AM where i'm at and I have work in the morning so i'm probs going to call it a night (unfortunately took a nap earlier after work that chained into the site being down when I awoke so )

[SmileyDude1]

hmm
i wish Knott, Hu Tao and heipizhu posted more.
Enchant just leaves me baffled, i honestly dont know what to think about those theatrics.
leaning town: Wiz,DragonEater,Python
Null:BlackStar, OutWorldER(says he likes to pressure lurkers but lurks himself), Smiley - his first posts felt bit scummy, but later went to null
Scum:THS, Wartortle (post no. 20 feels like scum whining)

Look at the scum trying to shade me again. If i missed questions aimed at me, i will answer them after i arrive home.
I am not a pocketing type of person so if you think i was trying to pocket you, you are wrong. I honestly thought THS was being suspicious, so i wanted to add some pressure on the slot.

Oh, I also noticed this while rereading. Naerys, would it be correct to say you think Wiz is scum based on your 326, and if so can you explain your Wiz progression from 236 to now.

[SmileyDude1]

I'm on page 8 and I think wartortle is scum for a few reasons.

1) He seems to be very concerned about presence and thread control. He keeps popping up with these rapid fire takes that don't really go anywhere. He's trying to fake the care free spewing thoughts playstyle of unconcerned town but if you dig to the bottom of these takes theres nothing there; no follow through, nothing. We don't see him pushing for his preferred narrative we just see takes. Takes and takes and takes.

how does me pushing ths not count as me pushing for my preferred narrative, exactly? how does me pushing naerys not count as me pushing to get pressure on a slightly scummy slot? it makes no sense bro

i haven’t been the most active scum hunter of all time but you’re framing it as if it’s much bigger than it actually is

VOTE: thestatusquo

Eh, looked through your ISO again and I think I agree with TSQ on this point. At least for TheHoldsteady case you don't really follow up after 66 and 67 at all and shift focus more towards Animated.

[SmileyDude1]

I vibe with Black's entrance here.

[SmileyDude1]

I vibe with Black's entrance here.

What does your readslist look like?

UsesPython, TheHoldSteady- Townreads
Black, OutWorldER, TheStatusQuo- Town Leans
Roden, AnimatedWiz, Wartortle, Hu Tao, Blackstar, Enchant- Null tier
Naerys -Scum Lean

Have to leave for work in a second, but i'd say this is about where i'm at right now. This is somewhat ordered (though some placements are near interchangeable for me).

[SmileyDude1]

I am not scum lol, stop pushing me smiley

Can I have you respond to 354. Cause right now the progression shown there is pinging me as too sudden currently.

[SmileyDude1]

I don't really know how to feel about python. Does anyone else have any reads on them?

@Smiley why is python your top townread?

I mentioned why in my 276, a good chunk of it is more of a vibe read for me.

[SmileyDude1]

What's getting me about Naerys right now is the progression she has towards certain slots.


In their 236 Naerys posts a readlist that had animatedWiz as a town lean (potentially her highest town-lean if this was ordered), yet she calls him them as scum in her 326. The only content Annie posted in between there was their theory on Naerys, and I don't buy that this is enough justification for changing your read on a slot that much. It's giving me a "I was town-reading you, but now your scum because you scumread me" vibe and that feels yucky to me. Like what about the theory makes Wiz Scum instead of town that's just wrong.

[SmileyDude1]

Currently want Naerys as a first preference, but would be willing to consolidate on Wartortle if need be, think I want to let the Roden/DE0 slot breathe but that's pending what we get out of Roden/potential replacement upon their return.

[SmileyDude1]

What's getting me about Naerys right now is the progression she has towards certain slots.

In their 236 Naerys posts a readlist that had animatedWiz as a town lean (potentially her highest town-lean if this was ordered), yet she calls him them as scum in her 326. The only content Annie posted in between there was their theory on Naerys, and I don't buy that this is enough justification for changing your read on a slot that much. It's giving me a "I was town-reading you, but now your scum because you scumread me" vibe and that feels yucky to me. Like what about the theory makes Wiz Scum instead of town that's just wrong.

Was skimming through the rest of the posts when I noticed 549, and now i'm confused.

@Naerys, can you walk me through your progression on AnimatedWiz when you get a chance.

[SmileyDude1]

Been thinking about this for a while. UNVOTE: Naerys

I think i managed to confuse myself lol

This seems to be in reference to my 592 and I feel somewhat inclined to believe that scum wouldn't outright respond this way towards my inquiry. Feel like scum would be better off electing to continue to not address it at all if they didn't have a response there (especially given I haven't really been the loudest voice in this game so far). The more I think about it, the more I could see Naerys behavior coming from impulsive town rather than scum.

I'm not sold on Naerys!scum but I think if Wartortle flips red then she could be a partner. Her putting Wartortle at the bottom of her readslist and then forgetting that she thinks he could be scum makes me feel like the read may have not been real. She didn't respond to my post asking her to join the Wartortle wagon and doesn't seem to be interested in voting there at all despite scumreading him. Like OWER mentioned I kinda want to give her the benefit of the doubt with the surgery and tiredness though

I've never played with Naerys but she's giving more LHF vibes than anything, and I don't mean that as an insult in any way. I think some players are just more likely to be pushed than others

didn't i push naerys tho

Not really no. You voted for Naerys in your 457, but I looked through your ISO after that post and you don't really do anything to further the push on Naerys. There's no casing on your end, nor do you really interact with other cases. You maintain the scumread in your 533 but I get the vibe that you were taking a back seat in regards to actually pressuring the slot.


I was keeping an eye out for how you handled the Naerys Case after I noted earlier how you didn't really progress your Hold Case earlier in my 447, and I'm seeing the same pattern here with not following through on your pushes. Right now, I think TSQ was right in their assessment of you in 371.

VOTE: Wartortle

[SmileyDude1]

E-2

[SmileyDude1]

UNVOTE: Hu Tao
VOTE: Wartortle

Since we are slowly running out of time, i believe this is the best course of action.
E-1

VOTE: Wartortle

Wtf? Why would you hammer so fast?

Why not

He claimed cop afterward. If he’s telling the truth, then you just lost us a PR. It doesn’t seem like you care

As i already told i would't believe it anyway.

Methinks it would've been useful to see how others interacted with the claim, but what's done has been done at this point.

[SmileyDude1]

UNVOTE: Hu Tao
VOTE: Wartortle

Since we are slowly running out of time, i believe this is the best course of action.
E-1

VOTE: Wartortle

Wtf? Why would you hammer so fast?

Why not

He claimed cop afterward. If he’s telling the truth, then you just lost us a PR. It doesn’t seem like you care

As i already told i would't believe it anyway.

Methinks it would've been useful to see how others interacted with the claim, but what's done has been done at this point.

You are scum.

Bold accusation there.

Mind explaining why?

[SmileyDude1]

UNVOTE: Hu Tao
VOTE: Wartortle

Since we are slowly running out of time, i believe this is the best course of action.
E-1

VOTE: Wartortle

Wtf? Why would you hammer so fast?

Why not

He claimed cop afterward. If he’s telling the truth, then you just lost us a PR. It doesn’t seem like you care

As i already told i would't believe it anyway.

Methinks it would've been useful to see how others interacted with the claim, but what's done has been done at this point.

You are scum.

Bold accusation there.

Mind explaining why?

I am cop.

Oh nos! you got me, i'm going to be put away

[SmileyDude1]

Initial impressions from day 1 flip.

Feel better about AnimatedWiz. Would've been fairly easy for him to shift onto the Wartortle wagon given they harbored a scumread on the slot earlier that didn't initially take off. Pings as the opposite of opportunistic for me. Would probably put the slot as a townread right now.

TheStausQuo's case on Wartortle doesn't really strike me as impure in hindsight even though it was wrong. I don't think they were pushing a false case onto Wartortle (It felt reasoned enough for me to vote on it given additional evidence of his point) so much as one that wasn't SI of the slot. Think I still have him as a town lean.

I feel worse about usesPython now. I can't quite pinpoint what it is, but something about their progression towards voting Wartortle feels off to me. I think it might be the lack of comment on the case on Wartortle before hand, making their vote their vote feel like more of an opportunistic sheep to me. Think the slot has moved down to null in my eyes.

[SmileyDude1]

VOTE: SmileyDude1

No one finds this one suspicious? By suspicious i mean in "Not Townie Way". I am townie so i know how townie could act!

I don't understand, do you want to implue i am not townie? Oh my, that's impossible. I am totally townie without any secret agenda!

I think any other townie also clearly see that SmileyDude1 is

mafia

criminal and if failing so, i find it very-very-very-very suspicious because i am so town so why you would doubt me?

UNVOTE: Hu Tao
VOTE: Wartortle

Since we are slowly running out of time, i believe this is the best course of action.
E-1

VOTE: Wartortle

Wtf? Why would you hammer so fast?

Why not

He claimed cop afterward. If he’s telling the truth, then you just lost us a PR. It doesn’t seem like you care

As i already told i would't believe it anyway.

Methinks it would've been useful to see how others interacted with the claim, but what's done has been done at this point.

You are scum.

I wanted to open with vote on Smiley.

I'll ask again. Why do you think i'm scum? This is starting to come off as shade to me.

[SmileyDude1]

Think i'm going back to here VOTE: Naerys

FWIW I do get town pings based on tone but i've been burned by using that before. Haven't really gotten any town vibes from them based on play, and there's been multiple moments where I found their play to be suspect

[SmileyDude1]

Think i'm going back to here VOTE: Naerys

FWIW I do get town pings based on tone but i've been burned by using that before. Haven't really gotten any town vibes from them based on play, and there's been multiple moments where I found their play to be suspect

Which moments?

Got pings frim your vote on the early day 1 Hold wagon (It felt sheepy to me and put that wagon at E-2 which pinged me a bit).

See my 585 for my main gripe. Your progression in relation to Wiz that I laid out there felt scummy to me.

[SmileyDude1]

I am not scum. Feel free to look at my other games to get a feel how town!me looks.

Ok, so I decided to go and take a skim through your ISO in Mini 2309 and I kind of felt similar vibes there as to here. Makes me think the pings i'm getting here are likely just part of your game in general.

I think I saw more solving from you in that game up to this point then this one, but there's less to go off of here, and you've just recently came out of surgery (glad you're doing well btw ) so I think it's fine for now.

UNVOTE: Naerys

[SmileyDude1]

I think Black is probs town in regards to the Black/Roden argument. My gut instinct says scum in their position probably don't aggressively start and push a case based largely off of an inconsistency like that day 2, after the case on the day 1 lim got heat for largely doing the same thing. Would need to analyze the Roden side of the argument deeper later to be sure (getting ready for work so I don't have time now), but right now I kind of lean towards Roden not looking worse from this at the very least.

[SmileyDude1]

Where I'm leaning now is probably Roden + Python or Smiley or Black + Python, Smiley, or Outworld? Then I dunno who the third scum would be yet.

Why do you scumread Black?

[SmileyDude1]

Shrug.

VOTE: Smile

Care to share a reasoning?

I don't like Smile.

Aw, your making me frown right now Enchant .

I think Enchant's position towards me has been stubborn in a manner I find weird, but not necessarily scummy.

Anyways got to go, will probs be back later.

[SmileyDude1]

I think Black is probs town in regards to the Black/Roden argument. My gut instinct says scum in their position probably don't aggressively start and push a case based largely off of an inconsistency like that day 2, after the case on the day 1 lim got heat for largely doing the same thing. Would need to analyze the Roden side of the argument deeper later to be sure (getting ready for work so I don't have time now), but right now I kind of lean towards Roden not looking worse from this at the very least.

Alright took another look and I think I feel conflicted about the way Roden responded here. I think I feel neutral about the way they responded during the initial back and forth.


I think the point Black makes in the aftermath (1046, 1050) feels compelling to me. When looking it over I originally interpreted 973 as saying Roden can't town bin Black due to them experiencing similar behavior from scum in the past, rather than them actually positing a Black scumread there, though the vote in 975 contradicts that.

Roden, can you elaborate on your Black progression here?

[SmileyDude1]

AnimatedWiz has same personality as scum game.

Animated+Smile+Black

Ez

VOTE: OutWorldER

Does not compute?

[SmileyDude1]

That said
VOTE: THS

Don't think I agree with this, can you show an example of Hold being inconsistent?

[SmileyDude1]

I have to help move some furniture around at my house (early thanksgiving rearrangements). Might be able to hop on later, but if not i'll definitely be back on tommorow.

[SmileyDude1]

I'm not going to try and convince you to vote OWER. I think you could be his partner and if he flips red I'm coming for you next

@Black


You ask TSQ to expand on his OWER read in your 1241 due to lack of interaction between the two slots. What caused the progression to believing TSQ and OWER are partnered here?

[SmileyDude1]

I feel like scum have probably wormed their way into one of the AtEfests at this point but I think even more so that there's scum just sitting on the sidelines and letting town implode

VOTE: Smiley

Yeah I tend to have trouble following some of the back and forths that occur at times, especially when they're still going on live. I usually am able to generate analysis in the aftermath if I feel like it or if I feel it's necessary to do so (i.e, the interaction changed my read on something)

[SmileyDude1]

It's late, so i don't have time for this now, but I do have some players that I'll probably reread within short order (probs tomorrow).


OWER- A slot that I kind of town leaned based on vibes day 1 and then zoned out from my head. Reading back through day 1 votes on Wartortle, I came out thinking their vote felt the worst out of those on the front end of that wagon due to their 556 vote feeling more on the sheepy side (it was essentially restating the original case) and then a lack of followup on that vote afterwards. Warrants a deeper look

usesPython- Kind of zoned the slot out this day phase, so want to reread there. Might also be good to reread day 1 to see if it helps clarify my read there

Blackstar- A slot that I haven't really paid much attention to in general. Hoping to get a more concrete read on the slot upon reread.

[SmileyDude1]

It's late, so i don't have time for this now, but I do have some players that I'll probably reread within short order (probs tomorrow).

OWER- A slot that I kind of town leaned based on vibes day 1 and then zoned out from my head. Reading back through day 1 votes on Wartortle, I came out thinking their vote felt the worst out of those on the front end of that wagon due to their 556 vote feeling more on the sheepy side (it was essentially restating the original case) and then a lack of followup on that vote afterwards. Warrants a deeper look

usesPython- Kind of zoned the slot out this day phase, so want to reread there. Might also be good to reread day 1 to see if it helps clarify my read there

Blackstar- A slot that I haven't really paid much attention to in general. Hoping to get a more concrete read on the slot upon reread.

Ooof, I fell asleep last night before I could post the results of this. Sorry for the wait .

OWER- After rereading, this slot goes down a good amount for me. Rereading through Black's case of them in 561 I found myself leaning towards agreeing with them in terms of their reads being hedgy. Feel worse about the 556 vote after realizing it was a 1 post progression from town to scum in regards to Wartortle there. Reading their argument on Roden (and Blackstar's counterargument afterwards), I find myself agreeing with Blackstar that there are some jumps in logic being made here. I don't think on it's own that it's particularly scummy, but I don't find it endorsing either.

usesPython- I think I have them as a town lean again after rereading their ISO. Looking back at my 911, I had originally lowered them due to being worried about their vote having potential to be more of an opportunistic one on the early-middle part of the Wartortle Wagon. Thinking it over, I think pretty much all of the middle wagon on Wartortle (myself included) jumped on due to agreeing with the front end of the wagon in regards to Wartortle which makes sorting the intentions of the wagon members a bit complicated. Going deeper, I think I vibe with usesPython's content post-Wartortle vote from a solving standpoint about as much as I do my own at this point (I think usesPython's shift towards Wartortle came off as more sudden then my own, but I think they did a better job interacting with Wartortle and others afterwards). Skimming over their day 2, I'd say I'm liking their content here as well. I'm getting good vibes out of their Blackstar interaction and they're action as a mediator at points this daay phase (gives me vibes of town who wants to keep the game on track).

Blackstar- Through reading, my general conclusion is that this is just a really solid ISO to me. Plenty of solving, reconsideration of points that they may have been wrong on (527), the defense of Roden after their self-vote (I doubt scum in Blackstar's position sticks their neck out for Roden like that regardless of what Roden's alignment is. Also bonus points for giving a new perspective to the Black/Roden interaction) there's a lot of towny things here. Think I have them as a townread now.

[SmileyDude1]

Kinda have this gut feeling that this is a losing gamestate. All the fights feel TvT and every time we push on the lurkers they give decent responses but there's also 0 town cohesion and half the playerlist is off doing their own thing

So how about everyone gives a lim pool of three and we'll consolidate from there?

Would say right now i'm at Hu Tao, OWER, Enchant.

Hu Tao- Was on the verge of winding up in here regardless for me due to lack of a strong read, the doctor claim and retract is pretty bad in my eyes though (to say the least). @Hu Tao, unsure if you've already answered this, but can you explain why town you would elect to fake a doctor claim here?

OWER- Yeah looking back through their ISO, I think their vote on Wartortle was pretty bad in hindsight. It's both the intensity of a shift in opinion that happened in the course of 1 post and the lack of follow through on the vote afterwards that are giving me pings here. I don't think their day 2 was all that bad, but I also don't get anything that overrides the day 1 shift here.

Enchant- Getting pinged for reasons that could be found in my 1105. Don't think it makes too much sense to come up with a tenative solve like that and then vote outside of it so quickly after. Part of me wants to wave it off due to the player, but then Enchant kind of doesn't do anything with the solve or the OWER afterwards either, like they're kind of just here for the ride. As people have mentioned, Enchant does have a semi-serious gamesolving side to them and I just don't think this behavior tracks with that. It's not helping that the more I think about Enchant's position towards me, the more my brain gets paranoid that they're trying to shade me.

[SmileyDude1]

VOTE: Hu Tao

While I await your response.

[SmileyDude1]

That's E-3 (functionally maybe an E-2) btw

[SmileyDude1]

Ok, given the second stopped night kill I think it's best I claim here. I'm a lazy jailkeeper.

Jailed THS night 1

usesPython night 2

[SmileyDude1]

Softs can be found in the first three posts of my ISO

L

et me take a first post real quick.
VOTE: TheHoldSteady

VOTE: SmileyDude1
VOTE: Hu Tao
VOTE: AnimatedWiz
VOTE: DragonEater70
VOTE: TheHoldSteady
VOTE: usesPython
Nice to see you guys again!

@mod My name is wrong in the playerlist and VC1.0, could you fix it pls?

J

iminy Crickets that's a lot of votes.

Feelings mutual Heip

k

indest regards to you all .

How have you guys been?

ljk= Lazy Jailkeeper

There's also this

UNVOTE: Hu Tao
VOTE: Wartortle

Since we are slowly running out of time, i believe this is the best course of action.
E-1

VOTE: Wartortle

Wtf? Why would you hammer so fast?

Why not

He claimed cop afterward. If he’s telling the truth, then you just lost us a PR. It doesn’t seem like you care

As i already told i would't believe it anyway.

Methinks it would've been useful to see how others interacted with the claim, but what's done has been done at this point.

You are scum.

Bold accusation there.

Mind explaining why?

I am cop.

Oh nos! you got me, i'm going to be put away

put away kind of = lock up. Actually thought that one may have been too on the nose in hindsight, lowkey spent night 1 thinking I might get shot for that .

[SmileyDude1]

@Smileydude1

Besides THS, who do you town read right now?

Right now my top townreads are Python and Wartortle. Would put Dragon and Hold right behind them

I vibe with Black's entrance here.

What does your readslist look like?

UsesPython, TheHoldSteady- Townreads
Black, OutWorldER, TheStatusQuo- Town Leans
Roden, AnimatedWiz, Wartortle, Hu Tao, Blackstar, Enchant- Null tier
Naerys -Scum Lean

Have to leave for work in a second, but i'd say this is about where i'm at right now. This is somewhat ordered (though some placements are near interchangeable for me).

Smiley can you explain why DE/Roden went from a townlean to null between these two posts

Also what is your current read on Roden?

It dropped due to myself kind of agreeing with your case on DE day 1. I had thought that his stance on THS was weird early on, but it was something I elected to wave away at the time due to my feeling that Dragon was working to solve (they were asking a lot of questions). I think hearing someone else question DE's play caused me to reconsider why I waved it off in the first place.

I think I still have Roden in null right now. I think his progression in regards to you feels weird, but I feel like that was more caused by frustration in the moment rather than actual scumminess. Mostly there due to me not really getting anything so far from Roden that pings more "town" for me (I kind of townread the frustration but i'm looking for something more substantial).

It's probs another slot I need to take a deeper look at some point (whenever I muster the will to do so)

[SmileyDude1]

We know via the claimed actions night 2 that the no kill had to have something to do with Python. Given Black's watcher result, there is mafia in myself/Blackstar/usesPython (unless there's a ninja but I don't think that's likely given the only claimed action investigatives are 1-shot and 2-shot+can be freely killed at any time respectively).

I jailed python night 2 because I thought it would give me the most info about what happened night 1 assuming mafia didn't go for the safe kill in Black. My thinking being that if scum kill got blocked by usesPython's BP night 1 then scum might try to shoot them again night 2 thinking the bulletproof was the only source of protection out there.

Out of usesPython/Blackstar, I feel like usesPython are more likely to be town here. Looking back at yesterday, I struggle to see scum in usesPython's position electing to commit a BP claim in order to power through a Hu Tao Mislim there (Keep in mind they fullclaimed after Hu Tao retracted the doctor claim. If they were trying to save OWER they could've just pushed Hu Tao's retraction without claiming anything there). I also am skeptical of the idea that a team with scum!Python on it has Python perform the kill given the slot was a major contributor to pushing the mislim through and thus might be more likely to draw the eye of town power roles (would say i'm more confident on this second point then the first one).

Through PoE I think it's just Blackstar here. Consider my vote spiritually there, but I don't want to end day yet until we figure out a plan with our night actions at least.

[SmileyDude1]

-SNIP-
Out of usesPython/Blackstar, I feel like usesPython are more likely to be town here. Looking back at yesterday, I struggle to see scum in usesPython's position electing to commit a BP claim in order to power through a Hu Tao Mislim there (Keep in mind they fullclaimed after Hu Tao retracted the doctor claim. If they were trying to save OWER they could've just pushed Hu Tao's retraction without claiming anything there). I also am skeptical of the idea that a team with scum!Python on it has Python perform the kill given the slot was a major contributor to pushing the mislim through and thus might be more likely to draw the eye of town power roles (would say i'm more confident on this second point then the first one).
-SNIP-

Would like some additional input on this though. You guys seeing what I see here?

[SmileyDude1]

Will also say that I feel my role and Black's role fit well together in context to the setup (Black being Macho effectively makes my role a neg utility towards them. It just feels right to me from a setup standpoint) and I'm inclined to townlock her for it (helps that I vibe with her play as well).

[SmileyDude1]

I'm town and your claim of jailkeeper seems legit. If we can also believe in Black's results from N2, then it seems like the only 2 possible answers for why there was no kill last night are either

a) Python is scum

or

b) The scum team chose not to kill anyone to make us lim whoever got jailed.

It seems unlikely that they would choose to go a second night without getting a kill, so option A has to be the asnwer.

Thoughts on 1802.

Also can you explain why you chose the targets you did?

[SmileyDude1]

-SNIP-
Out of usesPython/Blackstar, I feel like usesPython are more likely to be town here. Looking back at yesterday, I struggle to see scum in usesPython's position electing to commit a BP claim in order to power through a Hu Tao Mislim there (Keep in mind they fullclaimed after Hu Tao retracted the doctor claim. If they were trying to save OWER they could've just pushed Hu Tao's retraction without claiming anything there). I also am skeptical of the idea that a team with scum!Python on it has Python perform the kill given the slot was a major contributor to pushing the mislim through and thus might be more likely to draw the eye of town power roles (would say i'm more confident on this second point then the first one).
-SNIP-

Would like some additional input on this though. You guys seeing what I see here?

Let me ask you this: at the end of gamestate yesterday, would you have considered Python to be a deep scum? Or at the very least, a slot with little suspicion on them? Because that's the best argument, at least thinking more mechanically, that Python would be town; deeper scum generally don't put themselves out there to be found by town PRs. I tracked Outworld specifically because they were closer to being eliminated and thus were more likely to show up on pr reports.

I would say that Python matched that description before the end of yesterday yes. It's weird, because in my view Python was probs one of the less suspected players before the Hu Tao push, though I think the green flip likely would've resulted in the slot being more suspected. If I had to postulate, i'd say they felt like they're somewhere in the middle in regards to suspicion.

Question for you? If we were to assume Scum!Python, who would you say the partners are right now? Depending on the composition of the scum team a hypothetical scum!Python might've been scum's best chance to endgame going into night 2 (or at least be an alternative option in case the "endgamer" of the group falters) and i'm not sure scum risks having them perform the kill in that case when there's reason to believe that power roles could be on them.

[SmileyDude1]

UNVOTE: BlackStar
actually starting to believe its better to go after those so called vanilla towns

I personally think it'd be best to sort within Python/Blackstar today. We're going to need to do so anyways at some point and I feel like unless there's someone that'd likely be the partner in both scenarios, its probs better to do it now rather then put it off later.

Smiley mentioned waiting to fade until we plan out night actions. Do we think that's a good idea? I feel like it gives the Mafia more information but I want to hear what people smarter than me think

The only night actions still in play are a JOAT Doctor shot and a Lazy Jailkeeper, what is there to plan out?

Yeah, I think you do have a point there now that it's been laid out like that. There's not really enough power left to break the game open with, so I can agree that it's likely better to minimize info for mafia to plan with.

[SmileyDude1]

Will say that i'm still in the camp of scum!Blackstar here.

For me it comes down to the scenario I think is more likely to have caused the blocked kill. I generally feel skeptical that a scum!Python commits the kill for mafia after drawing a lot of attention to themselves with the Hu Tao push at the end of previous day. Comparatively I feel like Blackstar, was more of an under the radar slot that was generally viewed positively by the player base at the end of day 2, and thus I can more easily see a scum!Blackstar performing the kill due to lower odds of being caught out by PRS. Utmost apologies to you Blackstar if i'm wrong here, but i'm going with my gut.

My main worry that's preventing my immediate vote is chancing the day ending while conversation seems to be going on. Conversation seems to be winding down so I'll probably bring Blackstar to E-1 or hammer after I get off of work tomorrow, unless there are any additional loose ends that need to be tied up before hand.

[SmileyDude1]

-SNIP-
My main worry that's preventing my immediate vote is chancing the day ending while conversation seems to be going on. Conversation seems to be winding down so I'll probably bring Blackstar to E-1 or hammer after I get off of work tomorrow, unless there are any additional loose ends that need to be tied up before hand.

This would likely be in around 14-16 hours from the time of this post for context btw.

[SmileyDude1]

Will say that i'm still in the camp of scum!Blackstar here.

For me it comes down to the scenario I think is more likely to have caused the blocked kill. I generally feel skeptical that a scum!Python commits the kill for mafia after drawing a lot of attention to themselves with the Hu Tao push at the end of previous day. Comparatively I feel like Blackstar, was more of an under the radar slot that was generally viewed positively by the player base at the end of day 2, and thus I can more easily see a scum!Blackstar performing the kill due to lower odds of being caught out by PRS. Utmost apologies to you Blackstar if i'm wrong here, but i'm going with my gut.

My main worry that's preventing my immediate vote is chancing the day ending while conversation seems to be going on. Conversation seems to be winding down so I'll probably bring Blackstar to E-1 or hammer after I get off of work tomorrow, unless there are any additional loose ends that need to be tied up before hand.

idk i think we're all putting too much stock in who submitted the kill

its equally likely that scum python submits the kill to protect a partner, either because they were afraid of the heat on their slot after the hu tao push or because there are partners with more valuable powers

do you think python is genuinely playing to town wincon? how do you actually read the hu tao push?

I feel like I can see town!Python's POV in electing to push Hu Tao in that position, it feels reasonable to me to pressure the retraction if you think it was caused due to softing a counter-claim. I also kind of think that Python did things that would be unnecessary or committal to do if scum in that spot. Hu Tao retracted the doctor claim before Python claimed BP, and I feel inclined to believe scum in that spot probs just elects to puah the retraction on its own rather than commit a role claim in that manner. I also am not sure that scum!Python would bother entertaining Hu Tao on performing analysis there instead of ust painting them as lock!Scum.

There are intricacies in how the push transpired that make me feel like a scum!Python would be boxing themselves in too much fpr it too be the casee.

I have to leave for work in a second will be back later.

[SmileyDude1]

That readslist is incredibly strange and the progression of Voting BlackStar --> Thinking it's better to vote inside the VT's --> Python SR is not one that feels natural or real to me.

Thats how my town!me operates. *shrug*

Can you go deeper into your thought process on this progression?

[SmileyDude1]

VOTE: Blackstar

VOTE: Naerys

I agree that Naerys doesn't look good here, but I do think it's better to sort within the 1v1 first still.

Gut instinct says Naerys likely is only scum in a scum!Blackstar world (Might be missing something, but I don't see the angle for Naerys changing their read like that in the event they're partnered with Python) so wouldn't it make more sense to launch Blackstar first if you suspect Naerys

[SmileyDude1]

VOTE: usesPython

e-2

I feel I'm in a bit of a bind here. I fully believe you and THS are town here (your claim fits with mine in regards to the setup and town likely has too little investigative power if THS is fake, not to mention I townread both of you on play), but we seem to be at odds here in regards to Python/Blackstar. Tell ya what.

UNVOTE: Blackstar

How confident would you say you are in scum!Python right now and why, I might be willing to sheep you two given a strong enough case.
It's just... this would suck if I wound up backing off a correct read at he last second.

[SmileyDude1]

Scalding hot take: BlackStar and Python are both town and we're being played by Annie and Co.

Ooh, go on?

[SmileyDude1]

VOTE: Blackstar

Let's hope this is right.

[SmileyDude1]

VOTE: Blackstar

Let's hope this is right.

It's not

Any legacy reads outside of Python scum?

[SmileyDude1]

Will say that i'm still in the camp of scum!Blackstar here.

For me it comes down to the scenario I think is more likely to have caused the blocked kill. I generally feel skeptical that a scum!Python commits the kill for mafia after drawing a lot of attention to themselves with the Hu Tao push at the end of previous day. Comparatively I feel like Blackstar, was more of an under the radar slot that was generally viewed positively by the player base at the end of day 2, and thus I can more easily see a scum!Blackstar performing the kill due to lower odds of being caught out by PRS. Utmost apologies to you Blackstar if i'm wrong here, but i'm going with my gut.
-SNIP-

Sorry Blackstar

[SmileyDude1]

I jailed AnimatedWiz last night btw

[SmileyDude1]

VOTE: AnimatedWiz

That vote was God awful. Annie needs to go today

Over Python, Why?

[SmileyDude1]

Yep. Game over. Enchant/Annie/??? scum. Terrible performance from town tbh.

Where's Python?

I'm not their keeper

Do you not think Python is scum?

I was convinced of it but I'm being paranoid and second guessing it now.

Python essentially conceded the first post of day 4, you're overthinking it right now.

[SmileyDude1]

For me, I don't understand why he's claiming he self-voted in order to look like a VT, when he got blocked two nights in a row anyway.

Not sure of the correlation here? The result doesn't preclude Hold having that reasoning (it would just mean it didn't work)

[SmileyDude1]

I'm likely dead tomorrow unless I get the jail right so I want to say the person I feel most confident in are THS

THS- I still think from a setup standpoint, town lacks the necessary investigative power in the event THS is scum. I think their play today while overthinking comes off more paranoid town Hold rather than scum Hold. I also struggle to see scum in Hold's position going to bat for partner Python after Python essentially gave themselves up (Not to mention they pushed for Python lim yesterday).


I think in general I also would say Naerys, and TSQ feel town to me. Naerys is weird due to how I sometimes find their progression on things to be lacking, but from what I can tell that seems to match up with their town meta. I'm also basing this partly off of my 2023, I don't think Naerys switches from Blackstar to Python the way she did if scum. It could be preemptive bussing sure, but I feel like a scum!Naerys maybe is a bit more considerate on the progression if they are partnered. TSQ is a slot that Im getting genuine vibes from in general, like even in cases where they were wrong (Wartortle) I look at their logic and it feels reasonable from a position standpoint. I could see either of these being deepwolves though I probs wouldnt look here first.

Everyone else is within the PoE in my view and probs should be the slots that are put under the magnifying glass first in future phases.

[SmileyDude1]

And with that.

VOTE: usesPython

[SmileyDude1]

wut?

[SmileyDude1]

I jailed Animated again last night.

Small part of my gut wants to believe that scum!Wiz probs shoots either yesterrday or the day before hand though my brain knows that reasoning is fallacious.

[SmileyDude1]

This sucks and is kind of evil of the scum team to kill someone other than me last night.

Like my initial thought is that me being alive, means my reads are off and i'm being a useful idiot here and need to reevaluate. Though i'm not sure if this is the case or if scum just want me to think that.

Curse you scum for doing this to me (in game of course, I wish all of you the best in your endeavors )

[SmileyDude1]

I think we just lose. Town has just not done well at all, with three incorrect lims in a row. I'm going to play to win no matter how dire it gets, though.

Didn't you try to self-lim as a JOAT...?

Did I try to self-lim or did I take an educated risk to make myself look more like a VT knowing I wasn't going to be limmed for voting myself for a little while.

Feel free to not answer this if you want to keep potential WIFOM about it alive, but have you used your doc action yet?

[SmileyDude1]

Actually now that I think about it, the WIFOM behind THS's doc shot could be why scum didn't target me.

[SmileyDude1]

Hot take: scum were off wagon and just silently letting it go through

Was skimming through Python's ISO when I found this. Likely means at least one more scum was on Wartortle day 1.

Going to start scanning through Python to look for interactions. It's late so i'll probably do 1 batch now (as in after I finish typing this post) then call it a night.

[SmileyDude1]

TheHoldSteady and Naerys

Spoiler: TheHoldSteady

932 seems like a TMI frustrated scum post

Where I'm leaning now is probably Roden + Python or Smiley or Black + Python, Smiley, or Outworld? Then I dunno who the third scum would be yet.

It's hard to take these posts seriously when they're put together side by side like this

Discreditory on Python's end towards THS. Feeks unpaired

I feel like THS could be scum coasting on wagonomics and extended OMGUS but I don't actually have a compelling case there and it's not that strong of a read

Python floats scumreading THS for bad wagonomics exppands on this in their 1037

Hot take: scum were off wagon and just silently letting it go through

Unsure if this was brought up earlier, but out of the five people off the Wartortle wagon, who do you think are the scumteam?

I know you scumread BlackStar for it, but that leaves me, Hu Tao, Roden, and THS in consideration for the other two members.

Fullsolves before we've had a single red flip are kinda dumb imo. Blackstar and THS probably flip red and we can go from there once we have stuff to work with

Python pushes on scum THS follows this up with a vote

I'm not talking about having all 3 scum off wagon here, I'm saying your wagonomics implies no scum were off wagon

What?

You come out with the conclusion that THS comes out better than OWER. Every votecount but the last is either NAI or should make OWER look

better

from your point of view so since you drop them so much lower than THS the only conclusion we can make is that you think being off wagon is so +town to the extent that scum basically aren't off wagon

Python questions Naery's read of THS coming out better than OWER when doing VCA. Could be intended to maintain pressure on THS?

THS rn has that slimy "Oh shit my partner did something dumb" playing both sides vibe going on where he "has" to react to the doctor claim but also doesn't really wanna have that be the focus of the thread while trying to pull back to the OWER lim

Pushes THS for their stance towards Hu Tao

THS rn has that slimy "Oh shit my partner did something dumb" playing both sides vibe going on where he "has" to react to the doctor claim but also doesn't really wanna have that be the focus of the thread while trying to pull back to the OWER lim

I'm making the doctor claim the focus of the thread because I'm not resting until Hu Tao answers

VOTE: OutworldER

I don't like everything I've seen from Black, but with the Macho watcher claim I feel like we can afford to leave her alone for today. I townread Smiley and Python right now. POE on Wartortle's bandwagon yesterday is telling me that its Outworld

Shades THS for voting OWER

Smiley and Shea are fine, THS has that slimey feel with how he's approaching this

Pushes THS again for their approach towards Hu Tao (Second use of the term slimey)

Why not? I can be very convincing as scum.

We're townlean'd or better by like over half the playerlist, the only person who was TRing you before the claim was like Naerys. You straight up do not win a cc battle there after getting cc'd by a Doctor/Jailkeeper claim

When it comes to counter claims it doesn't always depend on what happened before but during, either way silly conversation. If I magically was revealed town who do you think is scum?

Probably a team with some combination of OWER/THS/BlackStar in it

Posts a tenative solve that doesn't include Hu Tao (who they knew was town) that has THS in it.

Conclusion: I don't think I even need to check the other end of Python/Hold interactions (checking Hold's posts for Python interactions). Just looking through how Python interacted with Hold throughout the first two day phases show that they're probably not paired. Hold's just town here imo.

Spoiler: Naerys

Anyway, while I don't think THS's wagon is NECESSARILY scum motivated, I do think it's >rand that there would be at least one scum who voted them (regardless of THS's alignment), simply because that's how early game wagons work. I like Wartortle, I hate myself but know am not scum*, I semi-like Pythin and I'm trying to pocket Naerys.

So that leaves SmileyDude1 who I am being told is towny this game, and OWER who I feel is lacking vibes-wise.

VOTE: OWER

*this is a joke, I don't hate myself

I feel like Naerys has the worst vote on the wagon, but like, not enough to do anything about it

Spoiler:

So, what else? Outworlder scum for continuing to push this narrative even when there's new evidence to work against it?

this does not make sense.

in 32 OWER calls dragon scum for self-consciousness

in 33, python says that's normal for town dragon

in 34, OWER can't find town dragon doing something similarly self-conscious

then, THS says that OWER is scum because OWER in 34 would have dropped his bad line of reasoning instead of elaborating and looking at dragon's past game

this is a bad argument.

i do not find python's evidence in 33 convincing enough to make OWER's 34 seem idiotic or scummy, and i do not like how THS tries to frame 33 as completely convincingly refuting OWER's case on dragon.

THS seems suspicious indeed

Like this just gives off bad vibes, feels like she wants to push THS without calling wartle town

Also not a huge fan of Python, they point out Naerys vote on the THS wagon but I feel like their own vote they made their isn't much better, really haven't been a fan of any of their votes past RVS tbh.

Our problem with Naerys isn't that she voted for THS but that her vote feels like it was made to say anything at all about wartle who she was sheeping

Python shades Naerys for their THS vote doesn't vote their yet

I am not scum lol, stop pushing me smiley

Welcome back

VOTE: Naerys

Python votes Naerys here, right after she returned to the thread from her operation. This feels slightly less likely to me to be distancing (kind of feel like if paired Python maybe gives Naerys more time to catch up and regain bearings before applying more pressure with a vote)

Also how does that logic apply to Annie when Annie has had Roden as his top SR and isn't even voting for Wartortle?

For Wiz it's the Roden/Naerys preflip that we have a problem with

Potentially a pseudo-defense of Naerys from Python here? Feels like the comment was more meant to shade Wiz for me though

For what it's worth, if this does flip town I don't think it was a scum-driven wagon.

It feels like it built up naturally.

Oh? Who would you say is the scum that drove the wagon?

The votes from Python, Naerys and Enchant didn’t feel natural to me.

I went ahead and used Ctrl+F to check Python's ISO for Wartortle mentions and their vote. What was it that you didn't like?

The part where they reread the game and gave us their reads on each page. It felt like that was all a show to justify hopping on the Wartortle wagon. Especially since they didn’t give us any insight on why they ranked people where they did as they were reading.

Before the reread, they said Wartortle was “spitting” a couple of times and sheeped him on an early read. The jump from that to voting him felt off. They even had Naerys ranked below him after the reread and still voted for Wartortle

Naerys went up enough on page 22/23 to hit the Hu Tao/Wartle tier, we just didnt't bother making the last tier list since we figured it'd be obvious based on us not voting Naerys there

Naerys shift upward is never explained by Python here. Potentially Convenient

OutWorldER comes out from this much worse than THS tbh

I don't get how you can get a read from anything other than the last votecount and I don't see why scum can't be off wagon there

OutWorldER comes out from this much worse than THS tbh

I don't get how you can get a read from anything other than the last votecount and I don't see why scum can't be off wagon there

All 3 scum outside of the wagon? Possible, but i dont believe that

I'm not talking about having all 3 scum off wagon here, I'm saying your wagonomics implies no scum were off wagon

Wagonomics back and forth between Naerys and Python. Goes on afterwards. but there's a distinct lack of understanding here between the two that feels like it's uncoordinated to me. Like I don't get the vibe this was a planned distancing interaction.

Actually maybe I should stick to my guns and go wiz first

Annie is locktown

I'll trust this for now but thoughts on naerys?

Can you explain why do you suspect me?

Based on everything I said end of day yesterday it looked like you were setting up

A Naerys wagon probably isn't happening today, who else do you think is scum

Interesting tone here. This reads like Python is okay with a Naerys wagon going through (otherwise why not say you don't agree with the wagon instead of saying it's unrealistic).

Kinda have this gut feeling that this is a losing gamestate. All the fights feel TvT and every time we push on the lurkers they give decent responses but there's also 0 town cohesion and half the playerlist is off doing their own thing

So how about everyone gives a lim pool of three and we'll consolidate from there?

Blackstar but that read's kinda stale and we should probably read his latest stuff

Wouldn't stop a Hu Tao/Naerys wagon

We're willing to consolidate on a wagon if one of our townreads is pushing someone we're not townreading

Confirms my earlier thought

Python do you have a read on Naerys

Did it look like BlackStar lim was inevitable to you? Cause to us it did and I don't really see the point of stepping off the bus to be the first person to suggest pushing a VT today

Defense of Naerys from Python here. Python might have been at the point of laying anti-associatives though so not sure how much stock to put into this.

Flipping to Naerys side of the interactions.

hmm
i wish Knott, Hu Tao and heipizhu posted more.
Enchant just leaves me baffled, i honestly dont know what to think about those theatrics.
leaning town: Wiz,DragonEater,Python
Null:BlackStar, OutWorldER(says he likes to pressure lurkers but lurks himself), Smiley - his first posts felt bit scummy, but later went to null
Scum:THS, Wartortle (post no. 20 feels like scum whining)

Was town leaning Python early throughout day 1 and this sustains through part of dat 2 at least 1073

Updated RL:
Solid Town: Smiley, Enchant, Anima
Leaning Town:Thestatusquo
Null:Black,Roden, THS
Leaning Scum:OWER,BlackStar
Solid Scum:Python

Eventually moves Python down to a solid scumread during day 3 after voting Blackstar. Could be distancing on Naerys end from Python's eventual flip, though I think i'm still of the mind that this is too ham-fisted of a switch to come from scum here, like feels like scum would be a bit more self-conscious of the optics here (especially given the vote shortly afterwards would be a bus that chanced Python dying earlier)

Conclusion: I can see hints of partner indicative associations looking through here, but I feel like there's a lack of coordination between the two slots at points that make me maintain the feel Naerys is not paired with Python. I think I feel a tad bit less confident than I was before, though I think I still feel confident enough to say the slot shouldn't be on the chopping block today.

Batch 1 done. I'll probs do batch 2 and 3 after I get off work tomorrow.

[SmileyDude1]

-SNIP-
Batch 1 done. I'll probs do batch 2 and 3 after I get off work tomorrow.
-SNIP-

Might be delayed due to holiday plans now that I think about it. I'll get these out by friday at the latest though.

Anyways night

[SmileyDude1]

THS tried to kill TSQ, failed. Then "Oh well i am Vig i shot TSQ". It's safe claim, because it aligns with visits and considering kill fail means either roleblocked or target was protected.

This plan requires someone claiming other protect to work

. Python was this someone.

Might be missing something but could you explain the bolded/italicized part? Why would the plan require someone else claiming protective?

Only theory where THS are Town are:

Mafia decided to attack THS AND when failed THEN roleblock same THS who basically selfvoted and literally WAS PROTECTED BY SOMEONE ELSE.

MAFIA ROLEBLOCKED THS? WHILE KNOWING SOMEONE ELSE DEFENDED HIM? WITHOUT EVEN DIRECTLY KNOWING ABOUT HIm BEING PR?


Bruh brah breh.

Not sure I follow. THS self-voted early day 1, there's a long span in time between then and night 2 for views to change so i'm not sure if the self-vote actually negative correlates to the idea they were roleblocked night 2. If mafia were threatened by THS, I think it makes sense to deal with him via roleblocking night 2 if the attempted kill night 1 failed, though the question would be if mafia had reason to fear THS enough to do that by the end of day 2. Might need to go back and take a look to ascertain whether that would be the case.
---
Thinking about it today, I think I no longer think THS mechanically has to be town. Like I feel like my role + Blackstar role + Black role gives town enough power

if

the scum team is triple goon (Think this town might be a bit too weak if scum have access to additional power though someone better at setup spec than me feel free to chime in here). I think I still lean town due to the interactions between THS and Python feeling non-partnered to me though I don't sense inherent holes in Enchant's case (like I look at it and I don't sense anything clearly wrong or stretchy within it)

@THS, What's your response to Enchant's theory? Where does it go wrong in your view?

Oh also, i'm probably not going to have time to post again today due to Thanksgiving. Will probs be back on some time tomorrow to finish the Python interaction scan. Until then

[SmileyDude1]

How i see game.

Out of table:

Black - Macho 2-shot Watcher

- Killed by Mafia N3.

Spoiler: Acts

N1: Annie. No one.
N2: Python. Smiley, BlackStar.
N3: Can't act.

BlackStar - BG

- Executed 3D

Spoiler: Acts

N1: Thestatusquo
N2: usesPython

Python - Mafia Goon

- Executed D4.

Roden - VT

- Killed by Mafia N4.

Hu Tao - VT

- Executed 2D

Wartortle - VT

- Executed 1D

Enchant - ???

- Living


POE:

Smiley - Lazy JK

Spoiler: Acts

N1: THS.
N2: Python
N3: Annie
N4: Annie

THS - JOAT (Vig/Tracker/Doc)

Spoiler: Acts

N1: Vig (Thestatusquo). Fail.
N2: Track (OWER). No result.
N3: No Action
N4: Doc (Smiley).

Naerys - VT

Annie - VT

OWER - VT

Thestatusquo - VT

Mafia kills:
N1: THS tries to kill TSQ. Direct Jail.
N2: Python tries to kill Black. Direct Jail.
N3: THS kills Black.
N4: THS kills Roden.


THS>Annie>OWEN probably must win.

Start voting.

Honestly, I’m fine with this PoE—would personally like to go for OWER second instead of me (for obvious reasons), but I think this all lines up with everything I’ve been able to figure out so far. Happy to sign off on this with my vote.

VOTE: TheHoldSteady.

E-0.

Bruh...

You guys better be right about this given the amount of time we had left to discuss today.

[SmileyDude1]

I'm going to post my findings of the Python-Enchant interactions since those are finished already and then i'll see if I can do a quick scan to hipfire the rest.

[SmileyDude1]

Spoiler: Enchant

What is bothering me about python is that they say they mentally checked out from the game once Wiz vs. DE started happening, but I'm not noticing a difference in their posts pre and post DE/Wiz. They have pretty much the same attitude towards the game in regards to giving minimal reads and sheeping people

Like it kinda just seems like an excuse not to give reads or really play the game, especially considering the DE/Wiz argument wasn't nasty at all but rather fairly civil, so why did the walls take an emotional toll on python? Why did they accuse DE70 of tunneling in 226 if they didn't even read the walls they posted?

I'm willing to give python the benefit of the doubt if they are actually not feeling this game but something feels weird about how they have managed to position themselves on certain wagons while not actually doing much

It's invisible cause timezones lined up to have literally everyone posting only while we're asleep so we couldn't do our normal convo style of posting even before people started walling

And it's not anything to do with civility, we just can't really handle long posts that aren't directed at us; especially if they don't really have anything we can actually understand like most of the meta cases going on

220 we read cause it was the newest post and easy to digest, and we called DE out for tunneling cause we were townreading him for the Enchant case but couldn't see where he was coming from at all with the Wiz line

Suggests Python vibed with DE's enchant case (at least enough to sheep it). Feels notable that Python doesn't follow up on the case afterwards. Could be distancing

Nuclear vibe read: Enchant might be scum

Seems anti-associative at first glance (Especially given it came out of the blue), doesn't really go anywhere though again with Enchant comment shortly afterward being their last interaction day 1. Could easily be distancing imo

VOTE: Blackstar

Why?

Like 60% gamestate read, I think going from being completely meh about the Wartle wagon to suddenly hating it and the people on the wagon after it went through is scummy as hell

I townread Wartortle early on and defended him in multiple posts. Then towards the end of the day I started to get swayed by the arguments about him not following through on his pushes and I stopped defending him.

I was away for a while and when I came back Naerys had dropped a weak vote on him followed by an immediate hammer from Enchant. It’s understandable that I would think the wagon was fishy after that rushed hammer on someone who didn’t seem that suspicious to me

Are you unironically scumreading Enchant for quickhammering someone day 1?

Are you unironically scumreading Enchant for quickhammering someone day 1?

I scumread them at the end of D1, yeah. I don’t now

Have you played with Enchant before

Are you unironically scumreading Enchant for quickhammering someone day 1?

I scumread them at the end of D1, yeah. I don’t now

Have you played with Enchant before

Actually no nvm Black complained about Enchant's serial quickhammering after it happened

I don't think your Enchant read is real

This goes on but the Python-Blackstar debate that happens here gives me chainsaw defense vibes on Python's end (towards Enchant)

I like VCA, people who use it are especially prone to be trolled.

I like VCA, people who use it are especially prone to be trolled.

Wanna extended quickhammer someone?

Who

I like VCA, people who use it are especially prone to be trolled.

Wanna extended quickhammer someone?

Who

idk, whoever would be funniest

You would be funniest, just consider irony.

Idk why, but I could see scum!Enchant jokingly having this exchange with scum!Python

I don't get how your head works. Fine for what?

We're solving under the assumption of a town!Hu Tao world cause we got asked

and fine as in not scum

One of main important things is clearity. I not always follow it myself but still.

Keep it short and clear, i though it's "fine to elim".

Feels notable for being a clash between the two, though it's over something non-significant.

I find likelyhood of mafia skipping kill twice for amusement is like 1% (but possible). So
Jailkeeper must be town aligned and stopped one kill at minimum.

Naturally, BlackJack and/or Python should go, unless you build ninja theories.
Python less likely mafia, especially considering acting previous day.

Enchant leans towards Blackstar vote here. Also mentions the possibility of scum holstering which Enchant mentions at multiple other points day 3. Feels like Enchant might have been trying to float narratives that moved the game away from Python v Blackstar game state

I personally would risking to not kill watcher.

... But attacking bulletproof claim unless i already attacked them before, that's not something i would do. Why if i can always just kill watcher?
Or why if i have roleblock i just... Don't roleblock you?

... Hm. Maybe it points at Python even more, because you can't be saved. Mafia didn't bother to roleblock you but roleblocked THS. Maybe they didn't expect you live.

Or your claim is bogus, but likelyhood again is 1%.


That's why i advocate for both with Black first.

More of Enchant advocating Blackstar first day 3.

Surprisingly... There is reason to elim outside.

11 players, 3 mafias.

One mafia at Smiley/BlackJack/Python.

8 players, 2 mafias.

I am town.

7 players, 2 mafias

Black probably untouchable and town anyway.

6 players, 2 mafias.

So we have roughly 1/3 chances. And then mafia will be forced to kill PRs and PRs will need to explain why BG didn't protect jailkeeper/whatever really and etc.

Another instance of Enchant floating not eliminating inside Blackstar/Python

I am not against Python, it's just your reasoning as lacking.

Mechanically i am against Python.

Reads wise i am against BlackJack.

This feels hedgy. Like Enchant is ttrying to walk the fine line of pushing Blackstar while not being seen as defending Python

There's 3 common theories... Ok 2.5 common theories.

First is where mafia attacked Python then... Python. And attacker in N2 is BlackStar.
Second is where mafia... Hm. Attacked HoldSteady N1, then tried to attack whatever but Python got blocked.

And third is where mafia no-killed two times in a row to fool watcher about which they obviously knew and fooled JK/had ninja/whatever really who cares zzzz


So anyway, it's more matter who you believe was attacked N1: Hold steady or Python.

Floats scum holster theory again. Scum!Enchant has incentive to do this, because it could potentially create a gamestate where Python doesn't get autolimmed after Blackstar flip.

I may be willing to vote AnimatedWiz. Or maybe i won't.

NEXT DAY.

VOTE: Python

Votes Python here, tells Python to self-hammer afterwards. Could've been incentivized to minimize spew from Python in the case of scum!Enchant (though if this is the case I personally don't see why you request this in main thread instead of scum PT, but then i'm not Enchant)

Conclusion: This does not look good for Enchant. There's multiple interactions here that I see as having high partner equity between the two slots namely usesPython's debate with Blackstar day 2 which feels like it could be a chainsaw defense and Enchant's day 3 which feels like it was trying to bail Python out of the 1v1 (or at least ensure they win it and survive day 3).

[SmileyDude1]

TheStatusQuo- Notable lack of interaction between the two slots while Python was alive. Could be partner indicative potentially. 2070 does stand out to me though. TSQ never voted Python day 3 (there only vote was 2008 on Naerys) and the closest they came to suspecting Python that day phase was 1738 which doesn't match the confidence expressed in 2070. Strikes as a misrep to me.

[SmileyDude1]

Misrep is probs not the correct term for that now that I think about it. I was trying to say that TSQ saying they wanted python gone in 2070 doesn't really match their stance during day 3.

A misrep is essentially someone taking something someone else said and twisting it to fit a narrative usually in a negative manner. A misrepresentation of a person's argument.

[SmileyDude1]

AnimatedWiz- Looking through Python's interactions I kind of see things that point towards it. Besides the day 3 where Wiz sided with Blackstar over Python), I also kind of get pinged by stuff like 1525 going to 1536 where Python posits a scumread on Wiz before moving them out of the solve. Python's early interaction with the DE/Wiz stuff also feels potentially paired (With Python trying to dissuade DE from tunneling here). I think one of the biggest points against is Python's 682 which attempts to pair Black/Wiz together feels kind of meant to shade potentially. I'd say overall I see the associatives here.

[SmileyDude1]

Thank you for explaining, Smiley. I think you’re right about what you meant—even though THS can switch on issues quickly during his town games, I don’t remember him ever hiding that fact. I do find it odd that he would say that after how he voted for me instead of Python.

???

I was referring to TSQ's stance on Python. Didn't mention THS at all.

[SmileyDude1]

OutWorldER- Stuff like 638 feels notable (though i'm not quite sure how AI it is) and stuff like 647 and 1107 draw pings as defense. It feels weird for Python to wave off OWER's case in 1115. The biggest suggestion of these slots being paired would be Python's day 2 push on Hu Tao which might have been an attempt to save OWER. Can also see associatives here as well. (Python muddied a lot of the remaining slots here, unsure how much this is actually helping )

I think looking at it purely from an associative standpoint this is about how I feel right now

{Naerys}
-GAP-
{TSQ} -almost want to put this down in the next tier due to the misstatement though I think a lack of associatives probs should be above bad associatives in this case
{Annie, OWER}
{Enchant}

The gap between TSQ and Enchant is somewhat small for reference. I think Naerys is the person I trust most right now.

[SmileyDude1]

If THS flips Green and I die tonight, I think i'm at Naerys town and that's the only thing i'm confident on here.

If THS flips red, then partially disregard what I said in regard to these associatives (I wouldn't say entirely since Python is still scum with associations though obviously things change a lot if Hold is red here)

[SmileyDude1]

Want to inply they attacked Python N2?

Night 2 kill likely was done by Python who got blocked by me. How do you know who they targeted?

[SmileyDude1]

Oh i wonder WHO they tried to kill.

While not roleblocking watcher. While roleblocking some random THS.

Not sure I fully buy this as an excuse, like Roden kill last night doesn't really make sense either but that's what happened. What makes you so sure scum took the Black kill in that case?

[SmileyDude1]

I guess scum truly wish for me to suffer this game huh?

[SmileyDude1]

Super-late so i'm going to call it after this post.

I jailed TheStatusQuo last night.

Want to say that we shouldn't rush into any unwise decisions today. Enchant may well have slipped during yesterday's twilight, but in the event they didn't I'd rather not lose via turbo-limming them without discussing it first.

I'll probably be back on tomorrow after I get off of work. Goodnight

[SmileyDude1]

fwiw I agree I have a weird vibe this game but I don't think its alignment related, I think its because I have literally never felt like I was playing at like any point this game because the days just kept ending before I ever got involved and so I've just been completely disconnected. If you read my town and scum games you'll see I don't have a problem involving myself usually. I'm almost always the highest post count player as both scum and town but this game I've just been unable to actually play the way I usually do because of the way things have gone down, and I think that has made me kind of like an outsider floating on the periphery of this game, which is not where I'm accustomed to playing as either alignment.

@TSQ

TheStatusQuo- Notable lack of interaction between the two slots while Python was alive. Could be partner indicative potentially.

2070 does stand out to me though. TSQ never voted Python day 3 (there only vote was 2008 on Naerys) and the closest they came to suspecting Python that day phase was 1738 which doesn't match the confidence expressed in 2070

. Strikes as a misrep to me.

Can I have you respond to this? In particular the bolded part is what i'm most interested in.

[SmileyDude1]

How i see game.

Out of table:

Black - Macho 2-shot Watcher

- Killed by Mafia N3.

Spoiler: Acts

N1: Annie. No one.
N2: Python. Smiley, BlackStar.
N3: Can't act.

BlackStar - BG

- Executed 3D

Spoiler: Acts

N1: Thestatusquo
N2: usesPython

Python - Mafia Goon

- Executed D4.

Roden - VT

- Killed by Mafia N4.

Hu Tao - VT

- Executed 2D

Wartortle - VT

- Executed 1D

Enchant - ???

- Living


POE:

Smiley - Lazy JK

Spoiler: Acts

N1: THS.
N2: Python
N3: Annie
N4: Annie

THS - JOAT (Vig/Tracker/Doc)

Spoiler: Acts

N1: Vig (Thestatusquo). Fail.
N2: Track (OWER). No result.
N3: No Action
N4: Doc (Smiley).

Naerys - VT

Annie - VT

OWER - VT

Thestatusquo - VT

Mafia kills:
N1: THS tries to kill TSQ. Direct Jail.
N2: Python tries to kill Black. Direct Jail.
N3: THS kills Black.
N4: THS kills Roden.


THS>Annie>OWEN probably must win.

Start voting.

Honestly, I’m fine with this PoE—would personally like to go for OWER second instead of me (for obvious reasons), but I think this all lines up with everything I’ve been able to figure out so far. Happy to sign off on this with my vote.

VOTE: TheHoldSteady.

E-0.

Can you explain how you got to Hold being the top of your PoE here? Looking back through your stance towards OWER seemed more solidified to me then your stance on Hold (Compare 2130 towards OWER to something like2118 towards Hold), so it feels off to be content with limming Hold first there.

[SmileyDude1]

Huh... I also can't.

@Enchant

I know this was a while ago now, but can you go more into your day 3 play? Did you have any particular motivation or intent behind bringing up the idea of scum holstering or did you say it just cause? (To be clear, i'm essentially asking for the purpose of bringing up said theory at that point in time if there was any. Sorry if the way I worded the question was unclear )

Also my apologies if mentioned already, but could you claim role? I know you didn't claim earlier, but given we're in ELO it's important that town has a full set of information to work with.

[SmileyDude1]

Potential Pairings List (in no particular order)

TheStatusQuo/OutWorldER

TheStatusQuo/Enchant

TheStatusQuo/AnimatedWiz

AnimatedWiz/Enchant

OutWorldER/Enchant

AnimatedWiz/OutWorldER

Didn't include any pairings featuring myself here for obvious reasons (A. I know i'm town, B. Town consensus is that i'm town (rightfully so, given it'd take a combo of unlikely events for me to be scum here))

I'm also going to strike off

AnimatedWiz/OutWorldER

- Off the top of my head the back and forth flinging of suspicions between these two doesn't feel like distancing to me. Feels too longstanding and intense at points to be partnered IMO. Feel relatively comfortable crossing this off right now.

Going to try to reread the game again over the course of the following days in hopes of better sorting the rest of these. Though feel free to assist if you have your own takes on this.

[SmileyDude1]

Huh... I also can't.

@Enchant

I know this was a while ago now, but can you go more into your day 3 play? Did you have any particular motivation or intent behind bringing up the idea of scum holstering or did you say it just cause? (To be clear, i'm essentially asking for the purpose of bringing up said theory at that point in time if there was any. Sorry if the way I worded the question was unclear )

Also my apologies if mentioned already, but could you claim role? I know you didn't claim earlier, but given we're in ELO it's important that town has a full set of information to work with.

At first you must work out all possibly theories then pick one which are more likely and probably stick for it. I didn't really believe in holstering, but possibility existed.

... It didn't really work out with THS as you see. If you are town (and i believe you are), mafia saw THS selfvoting and be like "oh lol blatant PR let's kill them... And then roleblock for good measure!"

Which makes uh. No sense? I still don't get it. Should't they roleblock potential protective/blocker instead?

In terms of the response, fair enough. I think I can see that.

In regards to the roleblock, I think it's important to note that THS self-voting happened day 1 compared to them getting roleblocked night 2. Going back to the end of day 2, I could see Hold's response to Hu Tao's doctor claim potentially tipping mafia off that he had access to a doc ability

The doctor claim is ???????? though

Hu Tao please explain your motivation behind that claim

Hu Tao you have 24 hours to explain why you claimed Doctor or else I'm voting you and not switching.

(This leads into Hold hammering Hu Tao).

My guess would be scum shot Hold night 1 due to the slot being fairly townread end of day 1 (it's why I decided to jailkeep there). Then roleblocked there night 2 due to suspecting Hold was doc (roleblock instead of kill because night 1 shot on them failed).

[SmileyDude1]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH

Spoiler:

Couldn't Resist

[SmileyDude1]

Smiley probably town so if i vote someone else i have 1/3 chance to vote townie randomly. If that happens, we lose.

If i vote mafia, then people shitpush me and we lose.



So yeah i am randomvoting in (expired on 2023-11-29 12:48:36)

I actually don't hate the idea of having someone just vote who they think is scum after a certain point (was kind of mulling over the idea of pitching a plan similar to that while at work yesterday) though I do think waiting an additional day or two to do so would be best to allow for the most discussion.

Random voting is cringe if you're serious about that though. There's enough info in the game to the point where we shouldn't need to resort to that.

I cant stop you from doing what you're going to do, but if you're going through with this I'd say give it another day at least before doing so and fire at a scumread when you do.

[SmileyDude1]

Smiley doesn't.

Mafia only need to fool one player to win.

If you would believe i am town, from your pow everyone else but me and Smiley are mafia and you don't act an that.

Quoting my posts without gifs are scumclaim.

I am bored as fuck.

I don't care.

/rip

To be clear, I'm listening to what your saying. I don't even think I'm leaning you for the elimination here currently. If you are town, keep the spirit up. Scum want to play into apathy, don't play into their hands

[SmileyDude1]

I would really appreciate if we didn’t try to randomvote so early (or even at all here)—I would like the chance to read up on Shea’s past games to get a better picture of his play.

Going to re-up my question to you.

How i see game.

Out of table:

Black - Macho 2-shot Watcher

- Killed by Mafia N3.

Spoiler: Acts

N1: Annie. No one.
N2: Python. Smiley, BlackStar.
N3: Can't act.

BlackStar - BG

- Executed 3D

Spoiler: Acts

N1: Thestatusquo
N2: usesPython

Python - Mafia Goon

- Executed D4.

Roden - VT

- Killed by Mafia N4.

Hu Tao - VT

- Executed 2D

Wartortle - VT

- Executed 1D

Enchant - ???

- Living


POE:

Smiley - Lazy JK

Spoiler: Acts

N1: THS.
N2: Python
N3: Annie
N4: Annie

THS - JOAT (Vig/Tracker/Doc)

Spoiler: Acts

N1: Vig (Thestatusquo). Fail.
N2: Track (OWER). No result.
N3: No Action
N4: Doc (Smiley).

Naerys - VT

Annie - VT

OWER - VT

Thestatusquo - VT

Mafia kills:
N1: THS tries to kill TSQ. Direct Jail.
N2: Python tries to kill Black. Direct Jail.
N3: THS kills Black.
N4: THS kills Roden.


THS>Annie>OWEN probably must win.

Start voting.

Honestly, I’m fine with this PoE—would personally like to go for OWER second instead of me (for obvious reasons), but I think this all lines up with everything I’ve been able to figure out so far. Happy to sign off on this with my vote.

VOTE: TheHoldSteady.

E-0.

Can you explain how you got to Hold being the top of your PoE here? Looking back through your stance towards OWER seemed more solidified to me then your stance on Hold (Compare 2130 towards OWER to something like2118 towards Hold), so it feels off to be content with limming Hold first there.

[SmileyDude1]

Waiting day or two for what, everyone keep silence and allow mafia do so too.


Only reason Outworld and Animated posted is to tell me that they should wait and... And...

No really that's it i guess, maybe you have some sort of brainstorm, but lmao we can't see it.

TSQ said they needed time to read and think here. Wiz also said they needed time to check through TSQ's games

I do think it should be obvious that scum has some sort of ability here because of all the potential town has to stop kills. I'm not really sure why anyone was ever operating under a different assumption. Smiley is still conf imo.

This game has been ridiculously frustrating for me because it has felt like the last 3-4 days have all been the following: I post some stuff. I don't post for like 12 hours and then I check the thread and we've mislimmed like 2 days into the game day.

So it's kinda been hard for me to parse because of this and I feel like I haven't really even been given a chance to play.

But I'm going to take my time today because of we need to slow the fuck down. People have been going rapid fire for like 4 days now and I need time to read and think.

I would really appreciate if we didn’t try to randomvote so early (or even at all here)—I would like the chance to read up on Shea’s past games to get a better picture of his play.

I also have two questions that haven't resolved and I still need have partner analysis that needs to be done, there are reasons to need more time here.
(I dropped the ball in regard to the analysis today , fell asleep early IRL and woke up at 2 AM. I have to get ready for work in about 3-4 hours so i'm probs heading back to sleep after this post. Will likely get started on it tommorrow after work though)

[SmileyDude1]

Rereading the game and at this point, I think I'm just gonna send it. I retract my claim that Enchant could be town here.

VOTE: Enchant

The thing I noticed on a reread is that Enchant did not vote, at all, during D3 in the BlackStar vs Python 1f1. He abstained entirely, and the only indication he was even going to was saying that Smiley would regret stealing from him when he hammered BlackStar.

Instead, Enchant spent a good chunk of that day trying to discredit Black, the Watcher, discrediting the mass-claim and being purposefully obfuscatory about his role. What little he posts outside of that is useless fluff, except for 1676 which contains absolutely zero analysis of use. When Python is confirmed red by BlackStar's flip, he immediately tries to chain THS, the JOAT, to them 2055, setting up for D5 where he pushes THS and gets him elimmed.

I think there's more than enough here to associate Enchant with Python. The other partner has to be within Wiz/TSQ, because Smiley is basically conftown at this point, but on a reread I feel most confident about eliminating Enchant here.

As mentioned earlier I kind of wished we waited a bit longer before committing a vote here for the sake of discussion, and lowkey I don't feel the best about this 1v1(If i'm being honest I think I felt worse about Annie than I did you or Enchant), but I don't feel strongly enough on both of you being town to fight you on this here.

First things first, let's see if there's scum in this combo

@AnimatedWiz
@Thestatusquo

If you could both check in as soon as possible, to confirm the 1v1 (or end the game if it's both of you) that'd be great.

viewtopic.php?sid=&f=2&t=91848&user_select%5B%5D=19042

You can use this link for the time being. Post #0 is blank but you can see VCs and flips at the very least.

Thank you Dann—this will probably end up being really useful.

my most recent scum game is team mafia - amnesiac mafia if you want to read it.

Quoting for ping

[SmileyDude1]

Going to withold doing any analysis for a couple hours until it's confirmed not TSQ/Annie. Would rather not get started on it only for it to wind up being redundant.

Crossing off this from consideration though on the grounds that we lose if this is the team (and thus is not worth going over)

AnimatedWiz/Thestatusquo

[SmileyDude1]

Looking back at Enchant and Shea’s ISOs, I do feel like Enchant has said more, and pushed more… but I think that a lot of Enchant’s reads, such as that on me, or Black, or Smiley, are overall odder looking back as opposed to Shea’s—however, I do think it’s a bit hypocritical of me to say that having incorrect reads is scummy considering I have a track record a bit beneath 50% right now.

I just… the vibes feel off with Enchant when taken as a whole. Both have such different playstyles from mine—but especially Enchant’s, because they actively try to hide their thoughts and information to fly under the radar and to keep people from using it against them. It’s not necessarily scum or town-indicative for Enchant to play like that, but I think they’ve played the endgame here differently compared to our last one together—a lot more theorizing and pushing and it’s hard not to think it’s suspicious due to the change.

I… I feel like our scumteam is Enchant and OWER, and I am going to really, really hope I’m not screwing this entire game up by voting:

VOTE: OutWorldER.

VOTE: outworlder

In addition to what I just said that last post just doesn't feel particularly genuine to me at all.

A lot happened while I was asleep huh? TSQ, Annie you can be honest with me can't you. This is game over right?

[SmileyDude1]

I'm still town btw, if this isn't game over at least one of you guys are acting right now.

[SmileyDude1]

Also just want it to be known that the playful part of me wanted to make a joke about how I was actually mafia all along, but the tryhard part of me won't allow me to due to potentially being a throw if the game continues here.

[SmileyDude1]

In the event this is game over, I will say that I think my performance here was bordering on subpar. I think my night actions were on point and effectively brought town and additional mislim. I think my dayplay was pretty unfortunate though. My reads were about average with some hits and misses, but I think I played this too passively given the spot i'm in. Normally i'm not aggressive in pushing reads as town, but there were points in this game where I should've pushed harder on thoughts I had. Like Hold should've never got mislimmed given the read I had on them compared to the spot I was in, and me not being more proactive in preventing that was kind of a throw (Devil's Advocate: I think that wagon built up while I was at work and my read there was starting to waver a bit, still no excuse though).

[SmileyDude1]

Anyways going to get ready for work, see you either tommorrow (hopefully, pls tell me we didn't lose ) or in postgame (maybe wishful thinking)

[SmileyDude1]

Anyways going to get ready for work, see you either tommorrow (hopefully, pls tell me we didn't lose ) or in postgame (maybe wishful thinking that we don't end up here at this point)

EBWOP

Make sure to complete your thoughts before hitting send kids

[SmileyDude1]

In the event this is game over, I will say that I think my performance here was bordering on subpar.
-SNIP-

Just to be clear, if this is over i'm not taking anything away from the scum team here btw. Very well played on your part. You managed to pull a victory through after having two of your kills stopped, good on you guys for standing strong in a scenario where a lot of teams would've folded.

Ok now I really need to get ready for work. See ya

[SmileyDude1]

gg scum, well played on your guy's end.

Thank you Dannflor for modding

[SmileyDude1]

Setup

Town Lazy Jailkeeper
Town JoaT (One-Shot Doctor, One-Shot Tracker, One-Shot Vigilante)
Town Bodyguard
Town Macho 2-Shot Watcher

Vanilla Townie x6

Mafia Goon
Mafia Goon
Mafia Roleblocker

Probs late to ask, but is the scum PT good to release?