Mini Normal 2322: Game Over

[Flavor Leaf]

i dont even know what a pavowski is. never seen em before.

[Flavor Leaf]

there's other reasons for Dragoneater to state the sheeping comment other than what comes across at face value. They could be reaction testing me. They could be trying to setup an early pocket (I think this is rather bold if so because it would always illicit some people attacking the idea).

[Flavor Leaf]

[Flavor Leaf]

i think shitposting is still just a mask, and can be alignment indicative either way. I dont think there's enough to discern a correct answer with Pavowski at all. I lean town, but wouldnt die on that hill.

[Flavor Leaf]

Y'all should be happy I decided to participate at all early. I usually wait until later.

[Flavor Leaf]

half kidding, but if you want me to get involved early, so be it.

When I get involved early, the game ends up being very Flavor-centric.

[Flavor Leaf]

i think shitposting is still just a mask, and can be alignment indicative either way. I dont think there's enough to discern a correct answer with Pavowski at all. I lean town, but wouldnt die on that hill.

ok actually the ones who are all on people for not doing tasks are able to tell because they're not doing tasks themselves
I find this mega-sussy

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Flavor Leaf
[countdown]0.00[/countdown]

Also these 2 sentiments don't add up.

I'm not on anyone, nor do I plan to be.

VOTE: Flavor

But let's get a Flavor wagon going.

[Flavor Leaf]

Spicy take, CW, lapalacian, HPE, and Pavowski are all town.

[Flavor Leaf]

cw suss for moving off of me so fast

[Flavor Leaf]

i think shitposting is still just a mask, and can be alignment indicative either way. I dont think there's enough to discern a correct answer with Pavowski at all. I lean town, but wouldnt die on that hill.

ok actually the ones who are all on people for not doing tasks are able to tell because they're not doing tasks themselves
I find this mega-sussy

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Flavor Leaf
[countdown]0.00[/countdown]

Also these 2 sentiments don't add up.

I'm not on anyone, nor do I plan to be.

VOTE: Flavor

But let's get a Flavor wagon going.

STFU BANDWAGONER
YOU ARE THIRD IMPOSTOR

even when im scum, i aint an imposter

[Flavor Leaf]

Spicy take, CW, lapalacian, HPE, and Pavowski are all town.

cw suss for moving off of me so fast

you say oppoosite things
this means 0 iq

i think you should request replacement tbh

people who say opposite things win games, learn it.

[Flavor Leaf]

if you think flattery is gonna let you pocket me, well i gotta tell ya, you're probably right.

DragonEater's already doing a decent job making his pocket comfy.

[Flavor Leaf]

you seem afraid of dying.

if you end up being scum this game, you're also TMI'ing me as town.

I think you fail to see the implications of specific posts you make.

[Flavor Leaf]

Who am I trying to 'eject'?

I feel I've only called people town this game.

[Flavor Leaf]

Alright, I got a town core in Pavowski and DragonEater. Anyone's welcome at the table thus far to see what we're cooking, promise you some good flavor.

I'mma reverse pocket.

[Flavor Leaf]

Alright, I got a town core in Pavowski and DragonEater. Anyone's welcome at the table thus far to see what we're cooking, promise you some good flavor.

I'mma reverse pocket.

WHY AM I NOT IN TOWNCORE
I HATE YOU

I don't feel like feeding you.

If you want some advice when you try to push someone, if your push is real, of course, you gotta build up momentum through dynamics with other player's first, otherwise the easy counter to your push is just me reverse engaging to make it look like circular arguments.

Only way it typically would be tilted another way is when scum try to shift their weight.

I probably don't think you're scum here? Really weird play if so, but i don't know a lot of this playerlist, so surprises are welcome.

[Flavor Leaf]

Alright, I got a town core in Pavowski and DragonEater. Anyone's welcome at the table thus far to see what we're cooking, promise you some good flavor.

I'mma reverse pocket.

I promise the fumes are, uh, non-toxic

Boy I hope Flavor is town, I still, like, wanna wagon you tho

I was trying to earlier.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm E-3 already.

[Flavor Leaf]

Alright, I got a town core in Pavowski and DragonEater. Anyone's welcome at the table thus far to see what we're cooking, promise you some good flavor.

I'mma reverse pocket.

WHY AM I NOT IN TOWNCORE
I HATE YOU

I don't feel like feeding you.

If you want some advice when you try to push someone, if your push is real, of course, you gotta build up momentum through dynamics with other player's first, otherwise the easy counter to your push is just me reverse engaging to make it look like circular arguments.

Only way it typically would be tilted another way is when scum try to shift their weight.

I probably don't think you're scum here? Really weird play if so, but i don't know a lot of this playerlist, so surprises are welcome.

DONT TRY AND GIVE ME ADVICE YOU PATRONIZING !@#$!@#$!@#$ (I DONT WANT TO GET BANNED)
I PUSH WHEN I PUSH , YOU DONT PLAY A ROLE IN THAT BTW BTW BTW

im livin in your head rent free, i definitely play the leading role in it

[Flavor Leaf]

Damn, you're truly obsessed with me. Little weird, not gonna lie

[Flavor Leaf]

kinda up for the policy if it continues. they already claimed vanilla, and yall know i love fading vanillas day 1.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm Taown and it was a Tuesday. But Hu Tao Tuesday is something FL came up with

You can't push Hu Tao on Hu Tao Tuesdays. They are IC every week.

[Flavor Leaf]

Flavor who do you scumread outside of yourself?

i would prefer holding onto my sole scum read of the game so far, as it's just pings, and don't really plan to push that person right now.

[Flavor Leaf]

dont really have that strong of reads overall right now. I am town leaning Pav, though.

[Flavor Leaf]

Might be because I don't see the reason for the Lap scumread though

[Flavor Leaf]

In fact, I have town read Lap since early.

Scum is on Lap right now.

[Flavor Leaf]

Anyone scumreading Lap for changing posting style is either mega tunneled or scum

Kyo is clearly mega tunneled and HPE is clearly scum, btw

I could see one of the two of them or Abnegation as scum here.

I don’t necessarily think they have to be, though.

[Flavor Leaf]

Kyouko feels a little too tunneled onto Lap, but idk if that’s a scum thing to be right now.

[Flavor Leaf]

*pokes thread with a stick*

What, do you people have jobs or something?

Somebody vote Kyouko for that smell thing, that was weird, wasn't it?

That way I can defend her and be all "nah that's totally normal, actually"

I'm finding myself not liking this post. Its giving me a weird gut ping that it feels fake but I dont know how to explain it fully.

You mentioned earlier that we were early on in the day, but here you are acting like there is a sense of urgency that feels like a subtle contradiction.

Why are you trying to get other people to vote Kyouko for something that you find weird? Why not lead the charge yourself if you want to get the game moving?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Pavowski

Thomith don't you think maybe you're jumping the gun a bit? Pavowski's post seems a little, teensy tiny bit, blatantly, shitposty.

Second post by HPE that pinged me as scummy

VOTE: HPE

i don't see it.
why do you think it's scummy?

This is a post to remember going forward.

[Flavor Leaf]

Flavor who do you scumread outside of yourself?

i would prefer holding onto my sole scum read of the game so far, as it's just pings, and don't really plan to push that person right now.

I was referring to Abnegation here, but I didn't have a lot then, and I don't want to misfade her if she's town.

I think she's decently aware of the fact this was her also.

[Flavor Leaf]

what's the HPE case? I reread ISO, and I dont necessarily feel it.

[Flavor Leaf]

Kyouko feels a little too tunneled onto Lap, but idk if that’s a scum thing to be right now.

She could just be tunneled. I do agree if lap is town that scum is likely on the wagon already

is it out of their scum range to fake a tunnel as scum?

[Flavor Leaf]

what's the HPE case? I reread ISO, and I dont necessarily feel it.

44 pinged me, can't say more than that

53 is weird to me because why does it care that thomith is "jumping the gun" in RVS? You kinda have to force scumreads in RVS if you ever wanna get out of it. I don't feel HPE's reaction is the natural town reaction.

240 presents something that is either NAI or towny (change in the way Lap looks at Pav,

after a reread, mind you

) as scummy to justify a vote, and it's also over-explainy in my opinion.

okay, this is solid enough for me. them mentioning Abnegation that way is interesting too, because it happened one way or another. I think if Lap town, one of HPE or Abneg are scum here.

VOTE: HPE

[Flavor Leaf]

Pavowski
DragonEater
Laplacian
Joyboy

Hu Tao
Kyouko

Purplemango
cw357
geraintm
Thomith

HighPrincessErinys
Abnegation

no full on red scum. purples are light light town reads, but none of them have done that much, and it's all on tone for me. I barely remember much of geraint, but i think that's a good thing with geraint slightly, and i expect to be able to read em if they're scum anyways.

Means im town reading at least 1 scum right now. I dont even necessarily think HPE and Abneg are both scum, they could be, but idk. I do think there is one there, though.

[Flavor Leaf]

No idea what to make of HT going and throwing hands with me only to later see the exact thing she was asking about was posted previously.

Hu Tao/Abnegation team is one possible explanation. not there yet, though.

[Flavor Leaf]

i just have a hard time seeing Dragon play this way as scum. it's over the line of too much as scum, that i think it's just genuine.

im pocketed cuz of it if they are scum, though, so ill have to break out of that later in the game if it turns out they are, but thats not a Day 1 thing

[Flavor Leaf]

i think it's too early to know if they aren't playing well or not.

[Flavor Leaf]

Pavowski
DragonEater
Laplacian
Joyboy

thoughts on my green tier, HPE?

[Flavor Leaf]

my reasoning for Joyboy is that while theyre obviously a gimmick account, in their few posts, they were actively able to give thoughts and info, and i think that's more likely coming from town than scum gimmick account.

[Flavor Leaf]

Yeah this one doesn't think 47 was a normal or towny way of getting out of RVS like at all.

Hmm okay

Would you vote Thomith here?

i just have a hard time seeing Dragon play this way as scum. it's over the line of too much as scum, that i think it's just genuine.

im pocketed cuz of it if they are scum, though, so ill have to break out of that later in the game if it turns out they are, but thats not a Day 1 thing

This one doesn't think Dragon is scum tbh just not playing so well lmao

Sadly this makes me slightly less confident about the scumread

If Lap and HT stopped existing, sure.

I lol'd

It’s interesting, because that’s one of the things that make me want to stay on HPE for a bit longer.

[Flavor Leaf]

351 is peak Thomith. I say this having zero completed games with them.

[Flavor Leaf]

i just have a hard time seeing Dragon play this way as scum. it's over the line of too much as scum, that i think it's just genuine.

im pocketed cuz of it if they are scum, though, so ill have to break out of that later in the game if it turns out they are, but thats not a Day 1 thing

Flavor, I'll be very disappointed if you are scum btw

To be fair, you set yourself up for disappointment.

Lucky for you, it’s not happening this game. I am not reverse pocketing you.

[Flavor Leaf]

It’s interesting, because that’s one of the things that make me want to stay on HPE for a bit longer.

Explain so I can (finally!) sheep you?

Prior to Thomith’s last post, I felt like it was a possible out to stay on their track.

It’s early Day 1, why is HPE shutting further pressure down in that way?

In addition, they also seemed to scumread Joyboy earlier. It feels like they were trying to not spread too thin.

I’m not sure it’s a correct reason, but it’s what i felt as soon as it started.

[Flavor Leaf]

To be fair, you set yourself up for disappointment.

Lucky for you, it’s not happening this game. I am not reverse pocketing you.

Oh I know

Still, I was so happy with that townread and it would wreck my hurt if it turns out to be a fake one

I’m more fake as town than scum

[Flavor Leaf]

What's the abnegation case? Is it just because she is quiet?

I feel like she is providing content in most of her posts when she is posting?

It’s more of an energy when she is here for me.

ScumAbnegation isn’t going to have a problem providing content either. That being said, I was scum with Abneg earlier, and she was able to back all of my hard pushes up, and we hard paired up together in the game thread, and were two of the more vocal players. I also would expect Abneg to be aware of me if they are scum.

It was the few things they did when they were here. While I’m on HPE right now, I scum read Abneg harder, and kind of voted HPE to see the effect it would have on the gamestate.

The way they jumped on Lap, and defended HPE gave me scum grasping for a political gamestate setup objective vibe.

[Flavor Leaf]

Vote when you’re ready.

Don’t let anyone scare ya into voting, sometimes i don’t vote by this time

[Flavor Leaf]

Glad cw is back and toning down the memes. However, they pop back in within 30 minutes of Kyouko saying cw had valid thoughts. Could just be good timing, but I'm also thinking scum chat coaching. Like, "tone it down before you get policied, go contribute next time you're mentioned"

I could see cw doing it on purpose to see who would try to ask for a policy Elim. Which is why I wouldn't hate a joyboy vote either.

That would be an interesting gambit. I've always seen policy elims as NAI, but scum would have a higher incentive to call for PEs on a townie

I feel town or more likely to call for a PL than scum.

Kinda bad form as scum to try and push a PL.

But it can happen.

I don’t share the sentiment of policy being bad if necessary, though

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: Abnegation

I don’t have a real case, but I’m pinged by you.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m probs biased because they’re hard town reading me, but DragonEater like is someone with a very limited amount of experience in-game with me, but I feel they’ve gone out of their way to hard analyze me. They also modded a scum game of mine earlier, and was invested in another of my scum game with Abneg earlier this year.

They also meta dived a town game of mine. And that’s just what I know about, so it seems they’ve put a lot of work into trying to explain how I play (which normally isn’t good to do, because I change up my scum meta often deliberately)

For instance, all 3 of my scum games this year, I had a key hard mega death tunnel, which mirrored some of my town games, but they were all incredibly deliberate, and it’s known that I’d do that now, so I have to change meta up.

I let people think they know what my meta is.

The difference with DragonEater is that they came completely out of nowhere knowing my style for me, and was not on my radar.

So if they are scum doing this, they put a lot of effort over time setting up for this exact situation, and while I think that is also possible, I feel they’ve been incredibly genuine with everything about my slot this game, and I don’t really think it makes sense for them to

Slingshot

(generally support and in-thread empowerment) the way they have been.

[Flavor Leaf]

i have to leave for a few hours, but i'll finish catching up then.

VOTE: Abnegation

I don’t have a real case, but I’m pinged by you.

by that, do you mean you have reasons but they aren't very strong, or do you mean it's entirely a gut read?

It’s not entirely gut.

I don’t like your dynamic towards HPE.

Like, to pull a Snivy, I agree with a lot of it, but I don’t like it when you say it.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m not unpredictable as scum. I’m fluid, adaptable, and deliberate.

I think people who think I’m unreadable use it as a cop out to not try to read me.

[Flavor Leaf]

However, I’ll take it as a compliment considering I have nearly 10 years of meta on this site alone, and a How To Scum guide that people still can’t catch scumMe out.

[Flavor Leaf]

Reading me as scum is 1/3 of the battle.

[Flavor Leaf]

Kyouko def dropped down a peg with that post.

I don’t really see Dragon/Lap being aligned here.

I kinda get Dragon/FL or FL/Lap, but like, I still think both of those are incredibly surface level and feel like narrative building rather than a genuine read.

[Flavor Leaf]

And I think it's a pretty weird idea that I would setup for a pocket before a game even starts but I'll take it as a compliment if you think that highly of my scum prowess

I just did the meta research because I wanted to be able to read you in my town games

To be fair, my conclusion is you’re town, not that you’re scum, so


It’s not like a specific game prep, it’s an overall existence in the arena kinda thing.

It’s like when I spent like 2 years never bussing, and then when I bussed a partner, I dominated.

—-

My scum victories this year in Pokemon I spent the entire game protecting all 4 of my partners with the mentality, if any of us go down, i go down because I’ve tied associations towards me specifically to martyr victory all game.

Abnegation and I also had a fire game where we hard paired in thread.

Then in the game you modded, I hard bussed (had to, but was ready to, of course).

So like, while i dont think you should shoot yourself in the foot to setup a situation for a future game, because you gotta take every game as its own game, the way mafia is played on this site, you gotta be self aware.

But i think games are great when everyone has meta on each other to an extent, just because players are forced to build another chapter on that meta with another player.

[Flavor Leaf]

I don’t think I have a lot of chapters with any player in this game.

Hu Tao/Abnegation have a handful of games, but still not a finished novel, I would say.

I’ve played with Geraint pre pandemic, but even then, we’re just getting to that point we gotta hard play around each other if necessary recently.

I’m also at work super bored, so you all get Flavor self reflection time.

[Flavor Leaf]

@Flavor

Okay fair

Just out of curiousity, when you said I meta dived a town game are you referring to me reading Mafia Have a Cop or something else? That comment still bothers me because I don't remember saying anything about a meta dive and I'm afraid you know more about what I did than I know.

Oh damn, wasn’t even talking about that game.

I remember you mentioned a game on the dead thread of the game you modded if that Multiball game I was killed Night 2 in and had the most posts in the game by end game

[Flavor Leaf]

I also assumed since you’re pushing like you know how to read me that you would have been meta diving, because idk how else you’d be able to pick up on certain things.

[Flavor Leaf]

You are STILL tunneled.

I have yet to receive any indication I'm wrong though, and I

am

looking

I think DE/Lap/FL is a lazy read pairing.

[Flavor Leaf]

That being said, i am semi leaning Kyouko town.

[Flavor Leaf]

Although, DE, if you’re trying to push you can read me off mainly only seeing my scum games, you’re gonna have a hard time when I roll scum against you

I’d be completely aware you modded my traitor game, and have built past that

[Flavor Leaf]

Right now, I think all the scum are on this list:

Joyboy
Hu Tao
Pavowski
Abnegation
Geraint
Thomith
Kyouko
cw357 - small chance, but don’t wanna give them the satisfaction if they’re scum trolling here

Yes. I town read some of these players at the moment, but i expect to town read some scum.

Leaves Purple, DE, Lap, HPE as my don’t touch list. HPE wagon was good for my read there.

[Flavor Leaf]

I don’t sheep reads, i take others reads into consideration, and i may sheep votes for momentum purposes.

I think purple has absolutely no objective in their posts

[Flavor Leaf]

Laplacian voters as of 503: ssbm_kyouko, Abnegation, Pavowski, HighPrincessErinys, geraintm

Assuming Laplacian scum it would be with 2 of these as partners:
Joyboy

Purplemango
DragonEater70

Hu Tao
Flavor Leaf
cw357

Thomith

bold=missing from 503

3. He is scum with exactly two of joyboy/cw/Hu Tao/FL

Why were purplemango and thomith not listed in scenario 3?

In the chance that Lap is scum, they are scum with at least one of the people on that first list.

Not liking your deep deep assumptions. Seems very black and white, red and blue. Mafia is purple and gray.

[Flavor Leaf]

Kinda feel like a flip

I think i heard it somewhere, did Lap claim vanilla?

[Flavor Leaf]

Are we E-2 still?

[Flavor Leaf]

Yeah, I’m cool with a Vanilla flip today at worst case scenario.

I was gonna offer CW up because I don’t think i saw the vanilla claim, but remember a reference to it.

Yeah, Lap, I don’t think you necessarily flip scum, but I’m ready to move on, and you’re vanilla.

Sorry if you’re town, but i think your flip leads to scum if you are town.

[Flavor Leaf]

Vote Lap, Dragon

[Flavor Leaf]

Did somebody say E-1?

VOTE: Lap

[Flavor Leaf]

Looks like that's hammer. Use my flip for good. o7

Yep. I needed a flip to make my Abneg case. I almost wanted to martyr myself instead, but i think a CW policy would have been better than your fade.

Just neither of those i could have people pick up steam with

[Flavor Leaf]

If Lap flips scum, Kyouku and I are confirmed town lol

[Flavor Leaf]

Imagine a vigilante in this game shooting anybody but CW

[Flavor Leaf]

Can we policy elim cw? Or modkill?

dont be sus
time to roleclaim

i hardclaim 1-shot dayvig.

dayvig: cw537

we were so close to perfection

Could be a sign CW is scum and threat killed Abnegation.

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: CW

[Flavor Leaf]

Can we policy elim cw? Or modkill?

dont be sus
time to roleclaim

i hardclaim 1-shot dayvig.

dayvig: cw537

we were so close to perfection

Could be a sign CW is scum and threat killed Abnegation.

VOTE: CW

This one doesn't really get this idea. Abne was widely scumread, and Thomith was generally townbinned (iirc). Abne was pretty vigged, not nightkilled.

Why do you need extra reasons to wanna fade CW here?

[Flavor Leaf]

Thomith does make sense as a scum kill.

Abneg being Vanilla is really good too.

[Flavor Leaf]

I likely would have pushed Abneg hard today, anyways.

Still think CW has scum potential here

[Flavor Leaf]

Thought you were townreading CW?

Was.

We have 3 flips now.

2 of them I town read, but my bigger scum read in Abneg flipped town, so game flips a bit.

[Flavor Leaf]

Can we policy elim cw? Or modkill?

dont be sus
time to roleclaim

i hardclaim 1-shot dayvig.

dayvig: cw537

we were so close to perfection

Could be a sign CW is scum and threat killed Abnegation.

VOTE: CW

This one doesn't really get this idea. Abne was widely scumread, and Thomith was generally townbinned (iirc). Abne was pretty vigged, not nightkilled.

Why do you need extra reasons to wanna fade CW here?

Well this one was mostly hoping that he'd have been thrown out and replaced.

After their first burst of posts, they changed, so they def won’t be unless it happens more.

I just think their twilight push on dragon eater is super fake.

[Flavor Leaf]

Lapa was obv gonna flip town

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m half advocating to get rid of CW because even if they are town, I do not trust them in this game come late game.

And we have already seen Vig isn’t going to shoot there.

[Flavor Leaf]

Lapa was obv gonna flip town

Tell that to Kyo

I still thought there was a decent chance of red up until that last day myself

I’m half advocating to get rid of CW because even if they are town, I do not trust them in this game come late game.

And we have already seen Vig isn’t going to shoot there.

This is a fair point

I did tell Kyo yesterday, if not directly, definitely implied

[Flavor Leaf]

Lapa was obv gonna flip town

A lil interesting you hammered then innit

I feel like I made it very clear that I expected them to flip town prior to it.

They claimed Vanilla. I’ll always fade a Vanilla townie day 1.

It is interesting because that’s bad scum play to not try and get more claims.

That being said, Thomith Cop snipe is good scum play, but could be lucky because Thomith was townie.

[Flavor Leaf]

Lapa was obv gonna flip town

Tell that to Kyo

I still thought there was a decent chance of red up until that last day myself

I’m half advocating to get rid of CW because even if they are town, I do not trust them in this game come late game.

And we have already seen Vig isn’t going to shoot there.

This is a fair point

I did tell Kyo yesterday, if not directly, definitely implied

Yes, but I don't think Kyo ever bought it

Who cares if they bought it, it was correct.

I told them not to get scammed by the fake late night ad, but I’ll help them make the mistake.

[Flavor Leaf]

You can ask Hu Tao, claim Vanilla Day 1, FL will fade

[Flavor Leaf]

3 scum players, 6 town left. I think this is simple, so no outliers allowed, so no hidden traitors.

Fun stuff.

[Flavor Leaf]

If we fade town today, and vig hits town, and scum kill goes through, that’s game over

[Flavor Leaf]

3 scum players, 6 town left. I think this is simple, so no outliers allowed, so no hidden traitors.

Fun stuff.

7 town, there's 10 alive.

Damn okay, we good then

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm going to assume not all scum were on Lap. So it's probably easier to find the scum off the wagon.

It could go either way. I think at least 1 scum. Dragon and I rushed the end, so

I feel this is a situation where we should go for who’s scummiest and not avoid going off wagon for the sake of it.

[Flavor Leaf]

I do think there is scum in Pavowski or HPE, though

[Flavor Leaf]

How come

I feel some push on the gamestate from them both .

My town read on Pavowski was mainly on tone.

And HPE wagon main wagon got turned into a Lap wagon, and I was able to feel that was a wagon scum wanted instead.

So I think HPE has scum equity because of that, especially considering Abnegation flipped town.

[Flavor Leaf]

The Abneg flip actually seems to help a lot.

[Flavor Leaf]

I also was kinda using CW wagon as a bait.

Dunno what I got from it. Hu Tao’s response I liked more than the other 2, albeit, I get what they were saying too.

[Flavor Leaf]

ahahahahahhahaha

Flavor stopped pushing me after he saw we weren't at MYLO
he's probably aware that if he pushed a second mishang he'd be on the scaffold D3

Anyone see why this is likely scum rather than town here with where the rest of their reads are?

[Flavor Leaf]

We could just be town vs town.

I still think they’re a big liability for the day.

[Flavor Leaf]

Imagine a vigilante in this game shooting anybody but CW

I imagine the vigilante was hard scumreading Abneg

Yeah you should probs Vig Hu Tao or CW tonight.

[Flavor Leaf]

Imagine a vigilante in this game shooting anybody but CW

I imagine the vigilante was hard scumreading Abneg

Yeah you should probs Vig Hu Tao or CW tonight.

Meant for Mason thread my bad

[Flavor Leaf]

I can kinda see a world where Joyboy is scum, but I do think, if Joyboy is town, that’s a very low info fade that scum would want today.

[Flavor Leaf]

CW is probably fine actually.

Just surface level analysis town.

[Flavor Leaf]

@CW - I do think Lap was scum driven, and I agree I don’t think it’s Kyouko either.

[Flavor Leaf]

I do think there is scum in Pavowski or HPE, though

I am gonna ask something surprising:

Why HPE?

They were wagon before LAP.

I generally think some of their posts are objectively scummy, but I can see townieness here and there.

I’m not overly confident in my reads at this moment. I feel something there in Pavowski or HPE.

[Flavor Leaf]

I also think it benefits scum to have CW here regardless because of their energy towards me.

Really it’s just a ‘come on vig, shoot CW’ kinda thing.

After realizing the number of players left, i didn’t worry as much about it.

But if CW and I are both town/town, and Joyboy is town, we are not in a good position tomorrow. Because CW I feel isn’t going to let up on Dragon/Myself.

[Flavor Leaf]

The bait worked very well imo

[Flavor Leaf]

Not always to catch a scum, sometimes it’s to catch a town.

[Flavor Leaf]

By making sense, I'm not saying I agree. Just saying he's not trolling anymore

Well, they’re still trolling, but they’re playing too, so i can at least make sense of it

[Flavor Leaf]

I can still see worlds where CW is pushing a scum agenda, but without more flips, I don’t think that’s even Occam’s, so imo, if CW is scum, they’re playing well.

I don’t actually think they’re playing poorly as town either.

Which gives me the added WIFOM of maybe they’re playing a really good scum game?

That’s where I’m at with CW. Would I fade?

Yeah, probably.

Do i think they’re always scum here?

Nope, probably not even most likely scum.

People hear this kinda thing and act like it’s more likely to come from scum, when it’s absolutely more likely to come from town.

But like, yes, I would do it as scum as well, so i don’t mind the push for that in that regard, but know what layer you’re looking at.

Looking at the chocolate icing, but it’s a 7 layer cakes, and layer 4 and 5 is the and or if, not layer 1.

[Flavor Leaf]

cw why are you making a huge case on Flavor and voting me

cuz ur scumpartners

Normally, I would be like “that’s much less likely for scum to pair up like that.” But i would.

If anything, if dragon is scum, their entire play this game is to pocket me and try to associate with me.

Very on the nose, but CW town i expect to be surfacey, so it also checks outv

[Flavor Leaf]

flavor and DE have shown no signs of giving ANY reads on the other except "yay we're towncore" and it's pretty obvious tbh that they're scum the more I read this

fun fact: I think reading Flavor Day 1 is pointless because he does the same shit as both alignments. Day 2 and on you start seeing if he has an agenda or not (I even had that post with notes about how Flavor never gets limmed Day 1 as either alignment so might as well sheep him Day 1).

Though to be fair the lack of Analysis about my slot on Flavor's part could be legitimately construed as scummy. I'm undecided about that though because I'm pretty sure Flavor did decide to be pocketed for very little reason as town in past games though.

*lack of public analysis

[Flavor Leaf]

You know what, maybe I’ll make this easier for yall

I’m a Night 1 Vig. I killed Abnegation.

I’ve been playing this day phase trying to act like it wasn’t me, so I could pull this out later, but I’m ready to play as IC.

[Flavor Leaf]

Night 1’s not my modifier, just wanted to WIFOM scum to have them wonder if I have another shot or not.

You looking scared, DragonEater.

I was 100% making it look like it was you. You been trying to pocket me all game.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m an uncountered Vig.

I dare one of yall to counter me.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m an uncountered Vig.

I dare one of yall to counter me.

With a confirmed 2nd kill on Night 1.

[Flavor Leaf]

DragonEater literally modded a game where I fake claimed Vig and thinks I’d claim Vig this way.

Difference is, here, I have a confirmed kill unlike that game too, and they weren’t ready for me to conf town.

[Flavor Leaf]

Night 1’s not my modifier, just wanted to WIFOM scum to have them wonder if I have another shot or not.

You looking scared, DragonEater.

I was 100% making it look like it was you. You been trying to pocket me all game.

Scared about what

I correctly read you as the vig, just voted you cause your claim made no sense

UNVOTE:

Makes perfect sense tbh

[Flavor Leaf]

What doesn’t make sense is thinking I’d fake claim a modifier that doesn’t exist if I were scum, if we being real

[Flavor Leaf]

Can we kill CW now so I don’t have to waste a potential vig kill if i have one on them?

[Flavor Leaf]

I still don't get what I'd be scared of as scum? As scum I would just say "cool I can continue sheeping Flavor" and know that you are pocketed

I thought about shooting you

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: CW

[Flavor Leaf]

CW playing dumb is a scum sign.

I don’t think Joyboy is scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

It is kind of dumb for DragonEater as scum to turn and vote me like that.

There was literally a confirmed kill, so it doesn’t go right for them if scum unless someone counterclaims.

But if someone wants to counterclaim, be my guest.

It’ll be a fun night if so.

[Flavor Leaf]

I town slipped when i messed the player count up anyways.

[Flavor Leaf]

I have 17k on my first account too.

Dont even wanna count the alts i played a lot on.


@CW - how do you explain a second kill other than being from my vigilante shot?

[Flavor Leaf]

@Hu Tao - bus your buddy and I’ll shoot somewhere else tonight so you can still talk your way out of it

[Flavor Leaf]

vig is not confirmed

2 deaths last night

[Flavor Leaf]

I need to look into seeing if I think CW/HPE is possible.

[Flavor Leaf]

I need to look into seeing if I think CW/HPE is possible.

this one would NOT fucking play with cw as its scumpartner lmao

You know what

I believe you

[Flavor Leaf]

Flavor/HPE/DE have no opinions, all they care about is getting rid of town as non-suspiciously as possible and coordinating their votes to do so

Do you really think all 3 scum would be pushing you? Also thought you had joyboy scum?

yes, no
at first i scumread him and i still find him sus but idk i scumread him less if that makes sense?

ur sus

SCUM PARTNERS TURNING ON EACH OTHER

[Flavor Leaf]

Can we kill CW now so I don’t have to waste a potential vig kill if i have one on them?

Do you not think joyboy is basically trolling worse than cw was now? I'm fine with cw vote out with joyboy vig shot though if it comes down to it.

Joyboy playing more like a Not Mafia. CW plays more with an agenda and actually pushes stuff. The way they discredit feels manipulative.

[Flavor Leaf]

I am vetoing Geraint, Purple, Joyboy,

They are the lowest info slots, personally, they become super easy to read (low info slots). So i think we should get someone higher profile today.

[Flavor Leaf]

Pav’s alright.

So here’s the thing,

If we’re in a world where it’s 3 town, 3 scum, and CW is there as a 4th town, do we trust CW to vote correctly in that situation?

[Flavor Leaf]

Flavor, cw feels like KeyLaga from this game you repped out of: viewtopic.php?t=91890

(KL was town)

Nah, i don’t see that at all.

Immediately after ISO’ing, I saw tons of questions being asked and at least some coherent thoughts.

CW is blind scratching, dirt walling

They remind me more of Gob.

[Flavor Leaf]

Pav’s alright.

So here’s the thing,

If we’re in a world where it’s 3 town, 3 scum, and CW is there as a 4th town, do we trust CW to vote correctly in that situation?

Alright as in an alright vote?

Yeah. I town read them yesterday, and i don’t necessarily scum read them, but they could be.

I almost shot them.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m not entirely comfortable with Dragon for town right now.

There’s a world where it’s Dragon-CW even.

Look how Dragon immediately started softing something like 1-shot BP too, and they are doing a lot to try and find someone other than CW.

[Flavor Leaf]

Honestly, we’re not in a good spot

[Flavor Leaf]

I thought Kyou was townie, and they over pushed, but it could be bold aggressive scum, i don’t want to count that out.

[Flavor Leaf]

There was a time when HPE had 3 votes on them, Dragon, Myself, and Hu Tao.

Then Lap joined on, and Dragon immediately moved over to Abnegation.

Dragon and HPE have some ties there.

I also think Pavowski and Kyouko have some ties together. They both actually look pretty rough with the flips we have in hindsight rereading Day 1.

HPE
Pavowski
Kyouko
DragonEater

Is a pool

Idk what it’s a pool of yet, but it’s a pool.

[Flavor Leaf]

Probs not

If you die, it’s a fade

[Flavor Leaf]

I might hit your buddy Kyouko though

[Flavor Leaf]

Purple actually looks pretty good on a reread.

I want to do some Day 1 wagonomics.

[Flavor Leaf]

Hmm

Why's Kyou scum?

The lap push feels off on a reread. I just reread most of the game, and Lap was doing a good amount of work. And i was town reading it.

I don’t think i realized how much people were discrediting them.

[Flavor Leaf]

Eh, aggressive scum play. Pavowski probably scummier still

[Flavor Leaf]

I don’t get the relation between the two.

Dragon was goading purple into voting on Day 1, though, and i think purple lack of voting is kinda townie

[Flavor Leaf]

Feels like Kyouko already knew that was there and is acting like they didn’t

[Flavor Leaf]

Feels like Kyouko already knew that was there and is acting like they didn’t

explain?

Can someone voting dragon explain that? I don't see it

pushed laplacian while maintaining distance yesterday in a very un-towny way
pocket attempts
a lot of interactions stuff, if a dragon wagon actually becomes a big thing I could ISO

Basically i think Kyouko already knew that FBI soft was there, and is acting like they just found it to help push a narrative. It’s sussy baka if they knew about it in Day 1.

[Flavor Leaf]

prod timers reset on daystart

[Flavor Leaf]

Pavowski, CW, HPE team is possible

[Flavor Leaf]

Feels like Kyouko already knew that was there and is acting like they didn’t

I didn't - but limming me toDay or shooting me toNight will confirm Thomith was killed for his crumb and not for positioning relative to the wagon

I was more thinking they were killed because townie

[Flavor Leaf]

I wasn’t looking for crumbs, though, I’m town

[Flavor Leaf]

Pavowski, CW, HPE team is possible

c'mon dude

Always good to go over possibilities and reassess reads.

[Flavor Leaf]

I think I’m still team fade CW

[Flavor Leaf]

I feel I was close to a full solve with CW, Pavowski, HPE. HPE’s AtE is strong, though, so I think they could be town, but then there’s a scum in the lurkers, so

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m not ready to count out Kyouko, and something about Joyboy town pings me.

I would prefer not Joyboy today. Very low info too

[Flavor Leaf]

If CW is town, and Hu Tao/Dragon town, if I’m dead, CW voting one of Hu Tao/Dragon is game over.

[Flavor Leaf]

Pavowski/cw and Hu Tao/DragonEater are an obv split.

If we fade in Hu Tao/DE, I’m vigging Pavowski if they flip town, and vice versa.

[Flavor Leaf]

If there’s a blocker, I’m getting blocked, though, so doesn’t really matter too much.

I do prefer fading in the CW/Pavowski duo, thohuh.

[Flavor Leaf]

It’s possible it’s one of each, like a Pavowski/Hu Tao, but that’s hard to deal with anyways. But that also makes a lot of sense.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m not ready to count out Kyouko, and something about Joyboy town pings me.

I would prefer not Joyboy today. Very low info too

This is facts on Joyboy, if we hit town there it gives us next to nothing

Kinda another reason I want DE today, he's bounced off everybody in the thread a few times it feels like

Flavor did you ever do your wagonalysis?

I’ve been busy. How much longer do we have? Might have a little bit of time here right now actually.

[Flavor Leaf]

1.1

DragonEater70 (1)

- geraintm

Flavor Leaf (1)

- Pavowski

Hu Tao (1)

-

Thomith

Not Voting (10)

-

Abnegation

, cw357, DragonEater70,

Flavor Leaf

, HighPrincessErinys, Hu Tao,

Laplacian

, Joyboy, Purplemango, ssbm_Kyouko

1.2

Flavor Leaf (3)

- Pavowski,

Flavor Leaf

, cw357

Pavowski (2)

-

Thomith

,

Laplacian

Abnegation (1)

-

Abnegation

DragonEater70 (1)

- geraintm

Laplacian (1)

- ssbm_kyouko

Not Voting (5)

- DragonEater70, HighPrincessErinys, Hu Tao, Joyboy, Purplemango

1.3

Laplacian (4)

- ssbm_kyouko,

Abnegation

, Pavowski, HighPrincessErinys

Flavor Leaf (2)

-

Flavor Leaf

, cw357

Abnegation (1)

-

Laplacian

cw357 (1)

- Joyboy

DragonEater70 (1)

- geraintm

HighPrincessErinys (1)

- DragonEater70

Not Voting (3)

- Hu Tao, Purplemango,

Thomith

1.4

Laplacian (5)

- ssbm_kyouko,

Abnegation

, Pavowski, HighPrincessErinys, geraintm

HighPrincessErinys (3)

- Hu Tao,

Flavor Leaf

, DragonEater70

Flavor Leaf (1)

- cw357

Abnegation (1)

-

Laplacian

cw357 (1)

- Joyboy

Not Voting (2)

- Purplemango,

Thomith

1.5

Laplacian (5)

- ssbm_kyouko,

Abnegation

, Pavowski, HighPrincessErinys, geraintm

Abnegation (2)

- DragonEater70,

Flavor Leaf

Joyboy (2)

- cw357, Hu Tao

cw357 (1)

- Joyboy

HighPrincessErinys (1)

-

Laplacian

Not Voting (2)

- Purplemango,

Thomith

1.6

Laplacian (7)

- ssbm_kyouko,

Abnegation

, Pavowski, HighPrincessErinys, geraintm, DragonEater70,

Flavor Leaf

Joyboy (2)

- cw357, Hu Tao

cw357 (1)

- Joyboy

HighPrincessErinys (1)

-

Laplacian

Not Voting (2)

- Purplemango,

Thomith

2.1

cw357 (2)

-

Flavor Leaf

, HighPrincessErinys

Flavor Leaf

(1)

- cw357

geraintm (1)

- Joyboy

Joyboy (1)

- Hu Tao

Pavowski (1)

- DragonEater70

Not Voting (4)

- geraintm, Pavowski, Purplemango, ssbm_Kyouko

[Flavor Leaf]

Pavowski/cw and Hu Tao/DragonEater are an obv split.

If we fade in Hu Tao/DE, I’m vigging Pavowski if they flip town, and vice versa.

Wait what? I misread or I'm just being stupid. If Hu Tao/DE flips town you vig me, but what's the vice versa -- if you flip me/CW town you'll shoot Hu Tao/ DE?

yeah probably Hu Tao.

[Flavor Leaf]

1.2

Flavor Leaf (3)

- Pavowski,

Flavor Leaf

, cw357

Pavowski (2)

-

Thomith

,

Laplacian

Abnegation (1)

-

Abnegation

DragonEater70 (1)

- geraintm

Laplacian (1)

- ssbm_kyouko

Not Voting (5)

- DragonEater70, HighPrincessErinys, Hu Tao, Joyboy, Purplemango

at face value, this one looks really bad for Pavowski. 2 flipped townies on Pavowski, one of them ends up getting pounced on later. I think this almost guarantees that one of CW or Pavowski is scum, possibly both, but I think it's more likely one, and then 2 scum hanging outside the main wagons. This was early game, though.

[Flavor Leaf]

Rather you shoot Dragon if you flip me/CW today but you do you boo

Maybe somebody can change my mind over the coming days, tho

I'm re-voting Dragon tomorrow

I can't. They softed some sort of BP esque role, and i dont wanna mess with the WIFOM of that. I'd rather shoot for a for sure kill. I can see a world where they faked it, but yeah, I'm not going to be vigging DE.

[Flavor Leaf]

Im beginning to think Kyouko is probably scum here as well, so that might be a vig shot.

[Flavor Leaf]

idk, that Lap wagon was really bad, and I knew it too. If I wasn't vig, i wouldnt have faded there, even with the vanilla claim.

[Flavor Leaf]

HPE's vote on Lap is awful too.

[Flavor Leaf]

i also am contemplating being okay leaving CW alive as a future lesson of why that was the correct Day 1 misfade if they misvote as town for the loss or if they are scum, it was also the correct fade there.

[Flavor Leaf]

Pavowski, Kyouko, HPE, Hu Tao are my candidates that I'm okay with if we're not going CW.

UNVOTE: CW

[Flavor Leaf]

1.4

Laplacian (5)

- ssbm_kyouko,

Abnegation

, Pavowski, HighPrincessErinys, geraintm

HighPrincessErinys (3)

- Hu Tao,

Flavor Leaf

, DragonEater70

Flavor Leaf (1)

- cw357

Abnegation (1)

-

Laplacian

cw357 (1)

- Joyboy

Not Voting (2)

- Purplemango,

Thomith

there is like always at least 1 scum on Lap. I might even say 2.

Depending on HPE's alignment, there's either 1 or 0 scum on HPE. I actually think this one helps me clear a teaming of Hu Tao/DE because there's so much pressure against the Lap wagon, by all means we could have possibly stopped it. DE gives me some paranoia, as does Hu tao, but I think they aren't aligned here.

There is scum in HPE, Hu Tao, DragonEater though.

There is scum in Pavowski, Kyouko, Geraint, HPE, possibly 2.

CW, Joyboy, Purple are the offs. There is zero or 1 scum here, never 2 imo.

[Flavor Leaf]

1 or 2 of Kyouko, Pavowski, HPE, Geraint

1 or 0 of Hu Tao, Dragon Eater,

1 or 0 of CW, Joyboy, Purple

[Flavor Leaf]

Kyouko, HPE, Hu Tao?

[Flavor Leaf]

Kyouko, Pavowski, Joyboy.

I just get a lot of objective agenda vibes from Pavowski.

CW went at Kyouko a bit earlier, and Pavowski turned that into a DragonEater push harder. They also used Hu Tao against Joyboy as a main reasoning to go Hu Tao.

[Flavor Leaf]

I wish I could see HPE alignment without having to flip them, lol. that's a big key slot here for me right now.

[Flavor Leaf]

Kyouko, HPE, Hu Tao?

I stated it before but I am gonna be gobsmacked if scum!Kyo leads a relentless charge like that on Lap. She never wavered, even a little bit -- that's a hell of a gambit for scum.

Of course, me being surprised by a thing is hardly a reason to think it couldn't happen.

More likely Hu Tao, HPE, Geraint but Geraint's still basically a zero info slot

If I'm going to reconsider town!Dragon I need to reconsider scum!Purple, I was close to ruling that out

eh, i dont think it's that hard to do, especially after rereading their posts, they just spam discredited. I really didn't like when they said Lap's 221 or whatever post it was reeked, cuz Lap had pretty good posts imo.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm pretty okay with Geraint overall. One thing pinged me with them joining on Lap, but I think they just voted. Idk. I think Geraint would do like a little more if scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

Kyouko, HPE, Hu Tao?

I stated it before but I am gonna be gobsmacked if scum!Kyo leads a relentless charge like that on Lap. She never wavered, even a little bit -- that's a hell of a gambit for scum.

Of course, me being surprised by a thing is hardly a reason to think it couldn't happen.

More likely Hu Tao, HPE, Geraint but Geraint's still basically a zero info slot

If I'm going to reconsider town!Dragon I need to reconsider scum!Purple, I was close to ruling that out

sorry if you're town, but i just dont believe anything you say.

Your reads also feel specifically chosen to establish a spot in the gamestate.

[Flavor Leaf]

Me knowing that Hu Tao could easily be trying to get me to town read them and avoid being vigged is one of the things keeping me from fully scum reading Pavowski, though. I also think it's possible it's a ScumPav, TownKyouko.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm like also aware DragonScum would have actively played to pocket me this game. Like that's a choice that made, and imo, that's far bolder than Kyouko's push on Lap.

[Flavor Leaf]

we got over a week, we can wait it out and make players like joyboy/geraint/purple come in and give thoughts. id like to hear from them/talk to them directly.

[Flavor Leaf]

until next time

[Flavor Leaf]

i just dont feel purple has any sort of agenda

[Flavor Leaf]

i also kind of agree with their sentiment, because i have reasons to town read every slot in the game as well.

[Flavor Leaf]

im not opposed to mass claim, but i think it's probs better tomorrow.

[Flavor Leaf]

WIFOM a doc shot on me or something.

[Flavor Leaf]

i just dont feel purple has any sort of agenda

in a lot of ways scum can just go with the flow and play

without

an agenda, although im sure its not universal

sure, but that's still a choice they have to make as scum, and i dont think that's what purple's doing.

[Flavor Leaf]

Hmm, maybe we just fade the Vanilla claim and move to next

[Flavor Leaf]

You gotta not take things at face value in these situations Hu Tao.

[Flavor Leaf]

Me knowing that Hu Tao could easily be trying to get me to town read them and avoid being vigged is one of the things keeping me from fully scum reading Pavowski, though. I also think it's possible it's a ScumPav, TownKyouko.

I'm town and I don't want to be vigged. Because I feel the game is in a tough state and I trust myself to solve it. It's like that one game where you were Miller and I had to find the remaining 3 scum with no misvotes remaining, and was able to do so. I trust myself to do the same here if we flip town today

I had found 2 of those 3 on the day before. We didn’t have to misfade me there

But again, don’t necessarily need to take things at face value.

I really don’t wanna shoot town you here either, and will 100% be taken into consideration.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m probably leaning Pavowski, CW, or Kyouko today.

[Flavor Leaf]

What about Hu Tao is pinging you?

[Flavor Leaf]

We need to go somewhat decently higher profile today, so nobody in the low content slots, unfortunately.

Unless some major connections today happen with them, but i don’t think Geraint, Joyboy, or Purple are the types to get in the middle of things like that anyways.

[Flavor Leaf]

Why is CW so hard to get?

Because scum and town both are defending. This means scum don’t want CW faded.

It implies that CW is scum, or town who is expected to help scum win.

I think that flip is best here.

[Flavor Leaf]

not necessarily. I spent a lot of time earlier pushing/pressuring Pav. I can sense it coming from a possible town place.

[Flavor Leaf]

Flavor I just finished a game (the one I linked earlier that you replaced out of) where on Day 2 there were 10 players alive with a large PoE and few townreads. And in that game I made the mistake of not pushing and poking people until I was sure of their alignments but sort of working together with scum to get a compromise lim.

cw in my eyes is a compromise lim and will probably flip town and then we will have a nightmarish Day 3. Pav actually has an agenda, you literally said this 3 pages ago. I want to kill Pav, or alternatively continue pressuring him until he responds well enough I actually TR him.

I disagree CW is a compromise. They've been my #1 the majority of this day phase.

I see agenda in a possible scumCW much more than I see with Pav, tbh.

[Flavor Leaf]

cases with quotes are for scum or catchups.

[Flavor Leaf]

I see CW-Hu Tao as slightly more likely than CW-Pav, but the fact I feel em both in addition to the way CW discredits, and the extreme manipulativeness potential I see from them, and the way this game started, I see CW as pretty likely to be scum.

They also pounced on Hu Tao for 'fishing' when they were hard pushing it earlier, and consistently claimed Vanilla.

[Flavor Leaf]

i just generally feel Pav's got a sense of 'if i gotta die, i gotta die, but im gonna fight trying' in a townie way, and not a scummy way.

[Flavor Leaf]

It's also the way Pav talks to me with like zero implications of where I'm headed, even when they're on the chopping block.

They're like on the short list for both being faded and vigged, probably almost more than anyone in this game considering the push back on CW. And I think that's telling.

[Flavor Leaf]

I do see reason for scum wanting a CW alive to get vigged, so that is a bit of a town reasoning. but 1 dead is still 1 dead, and fading gets rid of that too. i dont see Pav as someone thinking about that kind of stuff.

and thats really my defense for Pav.

I think there's an agenda, but idk if it's a scum agenda with them.

[Flavor Leaf]

Hu Tao, can you talk about the PV/CW - Hu Tao/DragonEater dynamics to me? What are your thoughts on the 4 of you, not necessarily your read, but your thoughts on the 2 v 2 as a general thing.

[Flavor Leaf]

How is Kyouko town

[Flavor Leaf]

Joyboy is garbage fade today