Mini Normal 2323 [There is an Inventor] | FIN

[Black]

VOTE: Hu Tao

I saw in the mod PT that this is a wolf

Sorry it has to be this way Hu

[Black]

Hey Dragon!

[Black]

I'm bored

This game is boring

I claim mafia

VOTE: DragonEater70

We just started bro relax

[Black]

VOTE: Dragon

[Black]

As always, town

Imagine never rolling scum, like some kind of reverse gob situation

It's called being Alianna

Pshhh. Alianna cannot be trusted anymore

[Black]

I scumread Alianna.

[Black]

As always, town

I'm actually townreading this a little

I think scum might be more likely to just say "I'm town" or something but the "as always" feels like it could maybe be legit exasperation

[Black]

As always, town

I'm actually townreading this a little

I think scum might be more likely to just say "I'm town" or something but the "as always" feels like it could maybe be legit exasperation

Eh, I feel like it easily could be read the other way (as the "of course" being an overcompensation) to a point of it probably being NAI?

Yeah it could be. Just a gut feeling really

[Black]

I'm trying to push this out of rvs already.

Other players have already done this. Kinda feels like you are looking for townreads by saying this

[Black]

This game is boring

I claim mafia

VOTE: DragonEater70

Good thing the scum team are werewolves in this game!

This is a serious vote. Based on ~vibes~ so far, Thom seems different right now compared to the game that I was in with him where he was town. I'm not quite sure how to explain it but it feels like he's nervous. But maybe that could just be a basic read since there isn't much to go off right now

I play off the vibes of other players early game until I see something substantial that I can latch onto. DE70 was being jokey, so I was being jokey too.

You are correct though tbf, I am probably playing different than the game you are referencing, because the vibes at the start were different.

So based on that, what do you think of my alignment? Do you think I'm town for thinking this or do you think it's something I could make up as scum? Since you did confirm that you are playing different than before when you were town.

Shouldn't his answer have given you an idea of his alignment? Why are you more concerned with how he's reading you?

[Black]

I think Thomith feels town

[Black]

I want to wait for Katsuki to post again, but I do have something I want to say once they do.

I think Katsuki’s claim deserves a closer glance
Not sure it’s real but it makes me look askance

I agree. My first reaction was that it was fake for the lolz

[Black]

This game is boring

I claim mafia

VOTE: DragonEater70

Good thing the scum team are werewolves in this game!

This is a serious vote. Based on ~vibes~ so far, Thom seems different right now compared to the game that I was in with him where he was town. I'm not quite sure how to explain it but it feels like he's nervous. But maybe that could just be a basic read since there isn't much to go off right now

I don't understand the nervous vibes at all really and I don't think someone acting different than they did in a previous game in their first couple of posts is alignment indicative

[Black]

Hu's entrance feels forced and unnatural. I'm upgrading my RVS vote to a real one

[Black]

This game is boring

I claim mafia

VOTE: DragonEater70

Good thing the scum team are werewolves in this game!

This is a serious vote. Based on ~vibes~ so far, Thom seems different right now compared to the game that I was in with him where he was town. I'm not quite sure how to explain it but it feels like he's nervous. But maybe that could just be a basic read since there isn't much to go off right now

I play off the vibes of other players early game until I see something substantial that I can latch onto. DE70 was being jokey, so I was being jokey too.

You are correct though tbf, I am probably playing different than the game you are referencing, because the vibes at the start were different.

So based on that, what do you think of my alignment? Do you think I'm town for thinking this or do you think it's something I could make up as scum? Since you did confirm that you are playing different than before when you were town.

More so because of this post than the other one, this feels like almost the exact same way you questioned me during the Micro I think you are referencing, which does make me think you could be scum.

Feel free to join the wagon

[Black]

This game is boring

I claim mafia

VOTE: DragonEater70

Good thing the scum team are werewolves in this game!

This is a serious vote. Based on ~vibes~ so far, Thom seems different right now compared to the game that I was in with him where he was town. I'm not quite sure how to explain it but it feels like he's nervous. But maybe that could just be a basic read since there isn't much to go off right now

I don't understand the nervous vibes at all really and I don't think someone acting different than they did in a previous game in their first couple of posts is alignment indicative

You say this, but he confirmed that something was different in the beginning which means my words carry a bit of weight. So why argue something he's confirmed to be true?

He agreed he might be playing different but he never confirmed that he was nervous. Can you try to elaborate on this a bit more? What specifically gave you the nervous vibes?

[Black]

As scum I feel like he would question your read a bit more? Maybe not but I do think that him admitting it and agreeing with you feels +town

[Black]

Why do you townread me Hu

[Black]

I wouldn't really expect him to deny it as scum. Maybe ask "Why?" or something to get more info out of your read

[Black]

Why do you townread me Hu

You seem like town you, but I suppose I haven't really seen scum you yet. Either way, I like your questions. And I can see you scumreading me so far as town.

I probably need to check my bias when it comes to you. I think I naturally scumread you sometimes. In general I have a pretty difficult time reading you so I'm willing to consider I could be wrong here

[Black]

I wouldn't really expect him to deny it as scum. Maybe ask "Why?" or something to get more info out of your read

I kinda did ask him why. At least in terms of why my questioning now and then was the same.

I meant that I would expect him to ask "why" if he were scum

[Black]

Hmm, ok. I think if I were scum in Thomith's shoes I would feel like I was caught for the wrong reasons and I would want to ask you about the specifics behind your read so I could maybe try and dispute them. I would be more interested in what you think I was doing differently so I could take note of that and try to avoid it in future scum games. He didn't really seem curious at all, he was just like "yeah you're probably right"

But I understand that people have different reactions to things than others so I don't think this is a super solid way of reading him

[Black]

Hmm, ok. I think if I were scum in Thomith's shoes I would feel like I was caught for the wrong reasons and I would want to ask you about the specifics behind your read so I could maybe try and dispute them. I would be more interested in what you think I was doing differently so I could take note of that and try to avoid it in future scum games. He didn't really seem curious at all, he was just like "yeah you're probably right"

But I understand that people have different reactions to things than others so I don't think this is a super solid way of reading him

Was this expectation specific to Thomith or your general thought on how scum might react in that case?

It was a general thought. I realize everyone plays different though

[Black]

I like Thomith's willingness to provide reads already. I think it would be easy for scum to just take the easy way out and say they don't have any but instead Thomith has already townread me and slightly scumread Hu

I also like 59 and I can relate to the whole playing different based on vibes thing

I just vibe with his entrance so far

[Black]

Damn almost sniped that pagetop.

VOTE: BLACK

Are you going to ignore people's questions/comments about you?

Also you can use [ v ] [/ v ] to vote, just take away the spaces

[Black]

I'm willing to give myself some more time to see where my Black read develops given player unfamiliarity

What is your read based on?

[Black]

Hu's entrance feels forced and unnatural. I'm upgrading my RVS vote to a real one

You're voting me

VOTE: Hu Tao

[Black]

141 kinda feels like a town post

VOTE: Gamma

I'll help push here instead

[Black]

I'm willing to give myself some more time to see where my Black read develops given player unfamiliarity

What is your read based on?

For now, lets call it gut while I get to know you better.

How good are you at scum btw, in your opinion?

Well I'm 6-0 as scum so I think I'm pretty decent. I definitely have holes in my scum game though. There are things I'm pretty weak at

[Black]

Well I'm 6-0 as scum so I think I'm pretty decent.

You are the Scum Queen after all.

[Black]

Yeah I low-key was hoping it would win the avatar contest but I'm fine going back to Umbreon for now

[Black]

VOTE: Dragon

This feels like scum dragon unfortunately.

Hu plus Thom might be buddies

I'm curious about both of these reads

[Black]

VOTE: Dragon

This feels like scum dragon unfortunately.

Hu plus Thom might be buddies

I'm curious about both of these reads

The way Hu just started to push Dragon, only bcz of her hut feeling feels meh. Could be attempt to lead attention away from Thom

I don't really agree with this read but I feel like it's one that is more likely to come from town

[Black]

VOTE: Dragon

[Black]

I rolled a dice and it told me that there is Dragonwolf in this game
VOTE: DragonEater70

Oh noooo how did you find me out so quickly

VOTE: DragonEater70

This game is boring

I claim mafia

VOTE: DragonEater70

VOTE: Dragon

VOTE: Dragon

Let's go.

Why do you do this

[Black]

Yeah I low-key was hoping it would win the avatar contest but I'm fine going back to Umbreon for now

I kept the white cat from Warrior Cats Mafia. Not my usual PFP but I like it.

The absent stare communicates my usual way of playing pretty well I think...

I love it. What's your normal avatar though? I'm pretty sure it's been the white cat since I've known you (which hasn't been very long)

[Black]

Hu's entrance feels forced and unnatural. I'm upgrading my RVS vote to a real one

I like Hu's entrance. Maybe I'm normally paying more attention to other players but I feel like this is one of, if not the first time I've seen something AI from HT this early. They're usually one I have a hard time reading

What do you consider AI from her this game?

I've gone a little back and forth with her in my head. My initial read was that solvey!Hu equals scum!Hu but I looked over a couple of other recent town games of hers and that kinda ruined that theory, so I'm back at null leaning town probably

[Black]

Like at first her play felt like Micro Normal 1094 which I think Thomith pointed out too, but when I looked at Mini Normal 2319 I saw similarities there too. She's hard to read and I don't think meta is going to be the best avenue to try and do it

[Black]

I really don’t vibe with the Naerys votes
So my current chance of townreading those two is remote

I think kitty could be scum

The conviction in his Naerys read feels unnatural

[Black]

CCS seems fine so far

[Black]

I rolled a dice and it told me that there is Dragonwolf in this game
VOTE: DragonEater70

Oh noooo how did you find me out so quickly

VOTE: DragonEater70

This game is boring

I claim mafia

VOTE: DragonEater70

VOTE: Dragon

VOTE: Dragon

Let's go.

Why do you do this

If I told you, you wouldn't believe me

Ok let's hear it anyway

[Black]

I enjoy being wagoned early

I might be superstitious but I feel it helps me find scum better (especially when said scum is on my wagon)

Also I just hate being nullread by people. I feel a lot better being either scum read or townread.

I can't relate to any of this, but I don't think that means you're scum

What do your reads look like atm?

[Black]

VOTE: kyouko

[Black]

Plot twist: Dragon+Black are scum
hopefully thats not true

I'm town

I think Dragon might be town too but I'm not sold on that yet

[Black]

Everyone else null

Are you not getting anything out of Katsuki?

[Black]

I actually have no idea why Black voted me but I think it makes sense that she would be paranoid of me here

I like early wagons and I wanted to see how you would respond to it

[Black]

Plot twist: Dragon+Black are scum
hopefully thats not true

Still waiting for the day I roll scum with Black

It would be soooo fun

[Black]

Everyone else null

Are you not getting anything out of Katsuki?

Not really? Should I be getting something out of them?

Like it feels they are just talking about past games and self-meta / playstyle

Eh, not particularly. Just wanted to see where your head was at with them

[Black]

Plot twist: Dragon+Black are scum
hopefully thats not true

Still waiting for the day I roll scum with Black

It would be soooo fun

What does this mean

It's a fusion of Dragonair and Umbreon

[Black]

Hi Katsuki

Who do you think are the wolves rn

[Black]

Everyone else null

Are you not getting anything out of Katsuki?

Are you?

Not really. I was hoping I could engage with you and change that

[Black]

Damn almost sniped that pagetop.

VOTE: BLACK

Are you going to ignore people's questions/comments about you?

Also you can use [ v ] [/ v ] to vote, just take away the spaces

You guys post enough and I don't feel like adding in like 6 posts of rather useless fluff on top of that, and wall posts aren't my style.

I thought this felt a little defensive tbh

[Black]

I really don’t vibe with the Naerys votes
So my current chance of townreading those two is remote

I think kitty could be scum

The conviction in his Naerys read feels unnatural

Kitty is town. I'm sure. He is different as town and scum. Just like in the jester game when I correctly said he was town.

He kinda feels different than he did in the jester game though? Like he's try harding or something. How does he play as scum?

[Black]

Looking over Katsuki's iso a bit more

I'm willing to give myself some more time to see where my Black read develops given player unfamiliarity.

Happier to push this one to a lynch.

UNVOTE, VOTE: DAVE

The conviction involved here is a bit much. I don't understand how Katsuki could already be willing to fade Dave based on the one comment he made about not having much history with her

Any thoughts on davesaz?

It feels less potentially opportunistic than the other 3 posts I mentioned so I wasnt overly focusing on it tbh.
I feel like it seems similar to my initial reaction, I just didn't say something sooner because I didn't want to guide your response to the questioning.

Mmm.

The difference between you and him is that, unlike you, he doesn't lack the background knowledge on me to at least have some sort of thought. He's more than happy to entertain a serious push on me if it develops, yet left room to backtrack with that

"I don't have enough background"

as his pretense to remain non-committal on providing any sort of useful comment.

FWIW, the last time I played with him, I literally posted nothing but pepes for the first 3/4 gamedays in team mafia.

Sorta feels like an over justification of the vote

My general impression is she doesn’t like day one
So she does silly things to make it more fun

It depends. RVS is the best period of the game for scumhunting. Entire games can be won off the back of the RVS phase.

I disagree with this but that could just be attributed to differences in game theory

*That being said, you're right I do have a tendency to have a great deal of disdain for D1 if the town is being bad and will just disappear until late game after the distracting voices have died off before participating. You probably caught me in one of those games.

I don't really like how Katsuki is leaving the door open to just disappear and not play much "if the town is being bad" but if she typically does this as town then this behavior could be hard to read

I think I'm probably null with a slight scum lean here. The Dave scumread doesn't feel great and I think scum generally have a harder time coming up with legit scumreads

[Black]

@Hu what do you mean by "rigid" exactly? These posts give off a rigid vibe to me but maybe we're using different definitions

I'm willing to trust that you have a much more solid meta read on kitty than I do but I want to make sure I'm understanding you correctly about him

Spoiler: meow

Thats basically scum confession
VOTE: Katsuki

...I'm pretty sure that was a joke. Scum response.

VOTE: Naerys

Agree Katsuki's post is interesting.
Makes me think it's my first time witnessing a slip, after lecturing people for a couple months on how they don't happen.

Why is everyone so sure of this being a slip and not a joke claim.

Someone claiming an evil role within the first few pages is 99% of the time joking. I mean it could be a 1000000IQ play where they're telling the truth and passing it off as a joke, but really?

Thomith's mention of werewolves would have made my eyeballs go click but it's a reasonable guess given clues in the rules post.

Village is always paired with WWs. It's not a reasonable guess. It's obvious.

I'm willing to give myself some more time to see where my Black read develops given player unfamiliarity.

Happier to push this one to a lynch.

UNVOTE, VOTE: DAVE

Can you use vote tags?

Thats basically scum confession
VOTE: Katsuki

Katsuki what exactly does your role do

I think Katsuki’s claim deserves a closer glance
Not sure it’s real but it makes me look askance

These 3 posts about Katsukis claim make me want to keep an eye on these slots.
I feel like it was obvious the Juggernaut claim was a joke, and I do feel like it could be an easy opportunity for an opportunistic scum to jump on that.

This post actually makes me SR Thom.
VOTE: Thomith

Why?

The fact that juggernaut claim is joke can be obvious only to scum. Plus it feels like you felt a chance to put some shade on us

I'm sorry if this comes across as rude but this post feels like being dense on purpose.

This is so weird.

I don't see how it's not obvious that it's a joke.

Thomith's mention of werewolves would have made my eyeballs go click but it's a reasonable guess given clues in the rules post.

Wdym?

The anti-town faction would know what their name is. If there were not other clues that it isn't "mafia" like usual, it would be potentially interesting to mention it.

Again, it is literally mentioned in the opening posts that this is a villager vs werewolf game?

ikr, is everyone in this game high or what?

What are those bizarre accusations flying left and right.

And that scum is Naerys.

[Black]

@Katsuki, is your top scumread davesaz currently? And is that based just on him claiming not to have a background with you even though je should have, or is there more to it?

I'm at a point where I'm quite content to sit back and see how things play out. I'm also somewhat rusty and mishandled my posting regarding dave so kinda gave him an easy out of any potential pressure. Rushed my posting and gave him the chance to use the convenient excuse of

"oh I forgot"

. The rest of his posting has been underwhelming and given me no reason to not trust my gut for now.

There is one player I'd be happy to see nom'ed today, but with the current game state there's no realistic chance of me getting support for their nom today so in the meantime I'm just going to chill until flips hopefully go my way to enable me to nail a wagon onto them.

Bring it

[Black]

Who is it?

I intentionally left out the name.

I think you've made a little obvious that it's me though

Make your case

[Black]

My general impression is she doesn’t like day one
So she does silly things to make it more fun

It depends. RVS is the best period of the game for scumhunting. Entire games can be won off the back of the RVS phase.

I disagree with this but that could just be attributed to differences in game theory

The two cleanest town games I've played in, one was a 13p that ended in 3 RL days (3hrs actual day time) because we caught all the scum in RVS, and the other was a 13p team mafia game that ended in 3 days as well because we caught 2 scum off their first posts of the game. It's not something you have to subscribe to, but was there really a need for you to pick this particular point out?

That's pretty impressive. I agree that scum can throw in RVS or town can get lucky, but I don't think it happens very often. Those two games are the exception not the rule imo. I've had a much higher success rate finding scum after flips, associations, town blocks/clears, etc

I brought it up because it caught my attention and I like being open with my thoughts. I don't think it's particularly townie to want RVS to go on for a long time, but I don't really think it's all that scummy either. It's kind of a personality thing

[Black]

Who is it?

I intentionally left out the name.

I think you've made a little obvious that it's me though

Make your case

Why do you think it's you?

You already said you scumread me, and you mentioned you didn't want to push the person due to the game state and I think you're referring to a few people townreading me

What I don't understand is if you think I'm scum and you're town then why would you not push me? You seem content with just hopping on the Naerys wagon instead

[Black]

What has pinged you about Naerys?

[Black]

Happy New Year!!! I may be slightly intoxicated rn

[Black]

I'm going to find youuuuuuuuu

[Black]

Here scummy scummy scummy

[Black]

Any thoughts on that, Black?

Eh not really. I'm not very good at VCA. Like I think you could be right but I also think scum could be chilling on a vanity wagon or just not voting atm

[Black]

I feel like I'm having a hard time reading people this game. All my reads are kinda stale and I'm not super confident in any of them

[Black]

I think Thomith, Hu, and Gamma are probably the most likely to be town. I like the solving energy out of this group

Naerys and Dragon fall into the tier below them but I kinda want to drop Naerys a bit lower

I don't really know what to think about Dave and Cele. CCS and Kitty could go either way but if Hu is town then I want to trust her read on Kitty. I don't think they are scum together fwiw

Kyouko and katsuki could be scum. I do like how katsuki is holding some things close to her chest though, and she's ignoring some questions in a way that makes me think there's some solving going on there and she doesn't want to give too much info. I think I would be fine keeping her around longer

So lim pool is something like {kyouko, Dave, Cele, kitty, CCS} I guess

[Black]

I want to take a closer look at those 5 players later

[Black]

Everyone else null

Are you not getting anything out of Katsuki?

Not really? Should I be getting something out of them?

Like it feels they are just talking about past games and self-meta / playstyle

Eh, not particularly. Just wanted to see where your head was at with them

I think Katsuki's claim in RVS was a reaction test, not a joke as a lot of people seem to be saying. It's kinda weird to me that nobody else thought that, but maybe it's an older playstyle thing? I feel like that kind of play used to be pretty common early on, especially in RVS. It seems pretty plainly town-motivated to me, and the fact that Katsuki didn't answer me about it later I think reinforces that it wasn't done because scum!Katsuki was trying a LAMIST approach. I think if it were scum-motivated Kat would have brought attention to that themself (on mobile can't check pronouns in pedit sorry)

This feels like a believable read

[Black]

My Monday effort:
Thom starts to feel slightly towny

What townie pings are you getting from him now that you didn't get before

[Black]

VOTE: davesaz

[Black]

It's hard to describe but Dave's iso just feels a little... stiff

It feels like he's trying to be careful or something

I don't like his initial reaction to Katsuki's juggernaut claim (70) and I think him being so easily open to the idea of finally witnessing a slip doesn't mesh with his opinion that slips never happen in 213

I'm not a big fan of him asking me a question in 97 and then not following up with my answer

I think a lot of his posts feel like filler posts or ways to seem busy without actually solving much. There's a little bit of solving in 316 but these are just blanket statements that scum could easily come up with. His Gamma train of thought from this post has gone no where and he doesn't seem to have any interest digging further, and then the Naerys/Hu takes both give off the vibe that dave needs to reread or look further but I get the feeling he is just going to leave these reads hanging

His mentioning of hating self votes a couple of times (251, 399) just feels a little performative imo

[Black]

I feel like I'm having a hard time reading people this game. All my reads are kinda stale and I'm not super confident in any of them

It's okay. Just copy my vote all game. I'm not scum or anything

I don't really think Dragon is scum but I have been fooled by him recently

Wanna wagon Dave with me?

[Black]

It's hard to describe but Dave's iso just feels a little... stiff

It feels like he's trying to be careful or something

I don't like his initial reaction to Katsuki's juggernaut claim (70) and I think him being so easily open to the idea of finally witnessing a slip doesn't mesh with his opinion that slips never happen in 213

I'm not a big fan of him asking me a question in 97 and then not following up with my answer

I think a lot of his posts feel like filler posts or ways to seem busy without actually solving much. There's a little bit of solving in 316 but these are just blanket statements that scum could easily come up with. His Gamma train of thought from this post has gone no where and he doesn't seem to have any interest digging further, and then the Naerys/Hu takes both give off the vibe that dave needs to reread or look further but I get the feeling he is just going to leave these reads hanging

His mentioning of hating self votes a couple of times (251, 399) just feels a little performative imo

Not sure why you'd think this instead of thinking I'm posting exactly what I think with no filters at all.

Vibes, pretty much

Why haven't you gone back to your To Do List in 316 yet?

[Black]

Why haven't you gone back to your To Do List in 316 yet?

Yesterday up to when I started posting today, for the most obvious reason of all.

408 is part of the followup.
I can't expand much on the reason for the Hu Tao observation without getting into a forbidden subject. The correct way to read that comment is that it's going to make it hard to get a read on her.

Ok, that's fair. Who do you think is scum?

[Black]

I guess Dragon could be scum

I don't like the way Dave is focusing on Gamma's rhyming but his point about Gamma maybe wanting to avoid being tone read isn't awful

[Black]

Im focusing on you the most because right now I think you're the scum in the Naerys/DE70/Gamma group

Why do you think there is scum in this group

[Black]

That seems like a pretty weak thing to latch on to

Dragon's response in particular feels like he was trying to get more out of Katsuki to gauge how serious her claim was. It doesn't look like he jumped on her at all

I think Dragon could be scum for other reasons but I'm not really seeing this as +scum for him

[Black]

If I had to guess I would say Dragon/Thomith is TvT

[Black]

ngl caught up anyways today (felt swingy).

Nothing to say really.

What do your reads look like

[Black]

CCS seems fine so far

I don't see it, please explain.

Taking a second glance at his ISO and I'm not really feeling as good about it as I was then. I thought there was more evidence of CCS trying to sort but I'm not really seeing any of that looking back through it

I would be ok wagoning this

VOTE: CCS

[Black]

It's interesting that we have 3 wagons at 3 votes each. I don't think fading any of the 3 would be super likely to hit scum but if I had to compromise on one then it would probably be Naerys

I'm more inclined to believe that scum are just hanging out and they're perfectly fine with the game state. CCS fits the bill here

[Black]

Thomith is at least showing signs of solving and wanting to sort people. We're not getting any of that from CCS

[Black]

I'll be thoroughly amused later on if it turned out the leading wagons were both on scum.

It’s happened before but it took substantial luck
And a scumteam presence describable in one word: suck

I don't think it's fair to say suck. If my statement is correct, then you can clearly see the unsuccessful effort to divert and drum up another nomwagon.

Wanna join me in making this game state more interesting? The bloodlust in me is thirsting for some flips.

VOTE: DRAGON

Why are you against starting a new wagon on the person you said you wouldn't mind fading?

[Black]

If I had to guess I would say Dragon/Thomith is TvT

Oh, why?

Simple answer? I think you are both probably town

[Black]

I think you are misunderstanding me. I said you could be scum but right now I feel like you're probably town

[Black]

Katsuki could be a CCS partner

She consolidated to the Dragon wagon and tried to recruit Gamma there after a CCS fade gained some traction

Now she's discrediting the wagon by saying it would have been more useful 10 pages ago

[Black]

I think you are misunderstanding me. I said you could be scum but right now I feel like you're probably town

Oh okay then

Should I just sheep you on std

By which I mean ccs

I'm not super confident but after narrowing down the PoE based on who I think is most likely to be town, I think CCS is a good fade

[Black]

^ this feels like a town post

[Black]

Katsuki could be a CCS partner

She consolidated to the Dragon wagon and tried to recruit Gamma there after a CCS fade gained some traction

Now she's discrediting the wagon by saying it would have been more useful 10 pages ago

Nah I'm merely calling a lurker wagon a pretty poor choice given that we have stuff to work with. I don't like how the wagons stalled where they did, with attempts to start up alternative wagons on any player other than dragon/naerys.

I'm fine with being tied with CCS scum should that slot end up actually flipping scum. It won't hold any water should dragon flip scum though.

I don't think any of the arguments for Naerys/Dragon/Thomith are very good so like the stuff we have to work with isn't very convincing to me. I also think reducing the CCS wagon to just a "lurker wagon" isn't really accurate. He's a low poster but the content he has produced hasn't been particularly townie at all

[Black]

Sure, his content hasn't been shining town. What about his content do you think makes him likely to be scum and nomworthy?

His Naerys vote could be an attempt to white knight Thomith

He feels a little on edge and defensive which I'm not used to seeing from town!him, though I don't have a ton of experience playing with him so this could be null

I don't really like his open question asking why people are voting Dragon. I think these types of questions are more likely to come from scum that want to seem like they're involved or trying to sort

[Black]

Hi Jackson!

[Black]

Uh why is cCS on E-2? I feel like I missed something important?

Just read?

Gamma and I think he could be scum and Dragon/Thomith are sheeping us

Dave didn't really explain his vote

[Black]

Questions like 505 feel so performative to me. Like just read the game and you'll have your answer

[Black]

I replied to Gamma with agreement.
Me asking you to revisit cCS seems to be what prompted your scumread. If anything you sheeped me on the read, though I can't prove it since I didn't say why I asked you the question.

I guess you're technically right

[Black]

Why is snivy on E-1 so quickly?

What kind of question is this

[Black]

The next person to come in and ask a question like that is going on my lockscum list

[Black]

Like you either don't know why snivy is getting votes in which case you should just read the 2 pages since you last posted to find out, or you do know why he's being voted and you think there's something sus about the wagon, in which case you should express your thoughts and not just ask the room what they think

[Black]

Most of CCS’ new posts don’t sway me from the cause
But the reaction to the wagon formation gives me pause

Pretty much same

I don't like how snivy is focusing on Naerys voting Katsuki when I thought Naerys made it pretty clear that she voted her because she didn't like the dead Pokemon image

[Black]

Wow why is snivy at L-1 so quickly?

HMMM

[Black]

If snivy is town there might be 2 scum sitting on him
If scum look outside the wagon
Thats the wednesday effort

Town!snivy would probably mean the scum team is gamma+dave+1
I dont like dave/gamma interactions

Do you think snivy is town

[Black]

I feel like after you stopped pushing me, you haven't done a huge amount solving wise

I'm feeling this too. And then right after you said this we get "solving" in the next 3 posts but it just feels half-baked and there's not much effort there

CCS isn't really convincing me he's town but I wouldn't mind pivoting to Naerys

[Black]

If snivy is town there might be 2 scum sitting on him
If scum look outside the wagon
Thats the wednesday effort

Town!snivy would probably mean the scum team is gamma+dave+1
I dont like dave/gamma interactions

Do you think snivy is town

I think it should be clear that i have no idea about that

What does your reads list look like atm

[Black]

Why is snivy on E-1 so quickly?

What kind of question is this

Why is it a bad question? I've seen their content but the votes were quickly done

What answer were you looking for when you asked this? Do you not understand why people are voting Snivy or do you not understand why the votes accumulated quickly?

If it's the former then you can just look at the votes and find out, and then ask people individually about their votes if you don't understand them

If it's the latter then I don't understand how this question clarifies that for you

[Black]

Hey, Black actually doesnt really look good there.

?

[Black]

scum:Kitty,dave,gamma

Can you elaborate on these scumreads? Also why are you not voting for any of them?

[Black]

Gamma/Dave in my scum reads might be bcz i dont really vibe with all those rhymes. At the beginning it was funny but it kinda got old quickly.

This doesn't sound like a good reason to scumread people

[Black]

VOTE: Naerys

Kinda want to do this over Snivy but I'm down to fade either

[Black]

I think Naerys wanting to flip a null read over her scumreads indicates that she doesn't really care who is faded. The argument that a Snivy flip gives us a lot of info doesn't check out either considering he's one of the least active slots in the game

[Black]

Yeet me, thx

This feels like an overreaction to just one person voting you

[Black]

Yeet me, thx

This feels like an overreaction to just one person voting you

I have been in worse situations. 1 vote means nothing to me.

So why are you asking to be faded?

[Black]

I like Thomith's willingness to provide reads already. I think it would be easy for scum to just take the easy way out and say they don't have any but instead Thomith has already townread me and slightly scumread Hu

I also like 59 and I can relate to the whole playing different based on vibes thing

I just vibe with his entrance so far

Do you actually think that posting reads is townie? Surely not

It was moreso the manner in which the reads came. Thomith was asked about specific reads and he didn't shy away from the questions. Like Hu straight up asked him if he thinks she's scummy and he was like "yeah you could be scum." I just think scum probably want to avoid butting heads like that early. And I think it would be a lot easier for scum to toe the line instead of taking solid stances like he did when he townread me

If I had to guess I would say Dragon/Thomith is TvT

And if one was wolf you'd be saying Dragon correct?

Hmmm. Probably yeah. I could see Thomith!scum though

[Black]

(Black) feels like a pretty weak reason to town-read Thom, it feels like it's justifying something for the sake of justifying it. Town-reading somebody for making reads is just simply wrong

Reducing my read to this is simply wrong

Black voting Naerys after she stated that black didn't look great, is not a great look to me

Scum tend to shade people for bad reasons and I definitely got that vibe from Naerys's comment. I don't think it makes sense for this to look bad to you

[Black]

It's also possible she's scum with cCS and with a less valuable role

I had this thought as well

[Black]

As it stands now, Thom/Black look the worst and Hu Tao looks the best

Why do I look the best?

Because you're undeniably yourself, you read natural. You read like you're saying what comes in your head right as it comes in, without stopping to think about how you would look. Things like this, just pure.

Maybe you're just bad at reading me but I'm not sure how you could think this about Hu and then say that I look the worst? I've been doing nothing but saying what comes to my mind all game

[Black]

Scum tend to shade people for bad reasons and I definitely got that vibe from Naerys's comment. I don't think it makes sense for this to look bad to you

The bad look is the speed at which you switched on her, surface level looks pretty awful and I was meaning to look back over that interaction when I had fresh eyes as that point in the game my eyes skimmed too much

I've been feeling worse and worse about Naerys as the game has progressed and you can track that in my ISO. The random shade on me and the strange reads finally convinced me to vote there

[Black]

Maybe you're just bad at reading me but I'm not sure how you could think this about Hu and then say that I look the worst? I've been doing nothing but saying what comes to my mind all game

What about you would mean I should be obligated to have the same viewpoint on? You are different people, you have taken to this game in different ways. The reason I thought you to be the lowest just above Thom was because I didn't understand how you came to the conclusions you had. I usually can follow the logic even for people I think are wolfy and are flat out wrong but I just straight up did not see the base of the reads you made

What conclusions did you have a had time understanding? And why would you not ask me about them instead of just being like "logic I don't understand = wolf"?

[Black]

I have a tinfoil theory but I want to let it marinate for a bit

[Black]

It's interesting that we have 3 wagons at 3 votes each. I don't think fading any of the 3 would be super likely to hit scum but if I had to compromise on one then it would probably be Naerys

I'm more inclined to believe that scum are just hanging out and they're perfectly fine with the game state. CCS fits the bill here

I still think Naerys is scummy.

Yeah I'm with you

[Black]

Thinking inwards though I actually believe the only read that I actively did not understand at all was the read about Thom's posting reads as townie. The rest I just disagreed with outside maybe that post saying the game was already out of RVS which I felt was unsubstantiated and I definitely felt the game was very much in that state.

Do you think I'm scum with Thom? Or do you think I'm scum trying to pocket him?

[Black]

VOTE: Thom

I want to explore this

[Black]

VOTE: Thom

I want to explore this

About this, I know you said that you could see scum!thom in a response to a thing I said but weren't you about town!thom like the entire game before that moment?

I think Thomith, Hu, and Gamma are probably the most likely to be town. I like the solving energy out of this group

This + the whole dragon/thom being TvT thing. Plus the early game argument that I didn't understand. Etc etc

Yep. My reads are generally super fluid on D1. Plus I have a theory and I think wagoning Thom will help me decide if I could be right or not. That's all I really want to say about it atm

[Black]

I mean there's fluid and then there's reads where you don't show progression on

Not every read has to have a visible progression. Just know that I don't commit to reads unless I'm confident in them, and I'm rarely confident in my reads early on in games. Even when I start to feel confident someone will say something or something will happen to make me lose that confidence

I get better as the game goes on but even later you'll see me second guessing myself constantly

[Black]

For sure, I agree with you completely but at the same time lacking progression, or bouncing quickly from a read still reads bad

Sure, on a surface level, but even then I think the implication that townies don't bounce around or sometimes don't show their progression is wild

I also think you need to look at the context. Think deeper. Unless you think I'm scum with Snivy then me swapping my vote to Naerys shouldn't read bad to you. I would just help push the Snivy wagon through there. Same with going from Naerys to Thomith. What is the benefit of doing this if I'm scum?

[Black]

Yep. My reads are generally super fluid on D1. Plus I have a theory and I think wagoning Thom will help me decide if I could be right or not. That's all I really want to say about it atm

I mean there's fluid and then there's reads where you don't show progression on, but I'm going to out of respect assume that theory holds more weight than the lack of apparent progression and see what you do with it, I will be holding you to explaining what it is even if it falls through though.

I'm glad someone is catching on to that. The issue isn't exactly the lack of progression (this is more the result of effect rather than cause), it's the intent behind her posts. She's been quite deliberate in her actions and motivations in progressing her wincon if my read on her is correct.

Can you go into this further? What do you think the intent behind my posts have been and how have I been progressing my wincon if I'm scum?

[Black]

votecount

Votecount 1-XIX

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to hammer, or 6 to decide for no execution.

camelCasedSnivy (4)

: Gamma Emerald, Thomith, DragonEater70, davesaz

DragonEater70 (3):

Hu Tao, ssbm_Kyouko, Katsuki

Naerys (2):

camelCasedSnivy, KittyTacky

Thomith (2):

JacksonVirgo, Black

Katsuki (1):

Naerys

notes

• The deadline is due in (expired on 2024-01-07 07:46:06).
  
• You can find the combined mod ISO here

VOTE: Alianna

That colour is awful

Unreadable or just awful? I can change it if it's the former.

I think the color looks awesome but not everyone is on dark mode

[Black]

I get better as the game goes on but even later you'll see me second guessing myself constantly

I know very well you're good at the game, I can't wait to see you pop off

[Black]

Blame Katsuki.

What are your thoughts on Jackson and Katsuki thinking we could be scum together?

[Black]

I get better as the game goes on but even later you'll see me second guessing myself constantly

I know very well you're good at the game, I can't wait to see you pop off

I overlooked this last night because I was a little flattered but this doesn't sound like something a townie would say about someone they think is scum

[Black]

Thinking inwards though I actually believe the only read that I actively did not understand at all was the read about Thom's posting reads as townie. The rest I just disagreed with outside maybe that post saying the game was already out of RVS which I felt was unsubstantiated and I definitely felt the game was very much in that state.

Do you think I'm scum with Thom? Or do you think I'm scum trying to pocket him?

I hadn't thought too deeply about it but I can say I avoid pre-flip associative reads as much as I can

. I don't know what to make of it just yet I just know that I didn't like it

All the power to ya. I

can see Dragon/Black for sure

. Naerys I get too but I wanna make sure I'm not falling into my usual pitfalls with them before I make any stance

[Black]

Katsuki feels townie over the last couple of pages and her scumread on me feels more natural than Jackson's

Black's been my most solid scumread today and I would like to think I'm not wrong on that one.
I didn't like a lot of Dragon's posts that he made recently, namely #348, 372, 375 and 428

I don't understand this though. If I've been your most solid scumread then why haven't you pushed me at all? You say you don't think you're wrong but you haven't cased me at all, you've just been voting for existing wagons instead

I believe this read is genuine but I've never been confident that someone is scum and just ignored them or didn't push them at all. I'd like to understand where you're coming from here

[Black]

@thom what is your read on Jackson?

[Black]

I don't think I agree with the premise that scum try to avoid starting new wagons. I think it's more risky for them to jump on wagons that have already gained some momentum because it can come across as opportunistic. Starting a new wagon and going against the grain is usually pretty safe and often times viewed as them trying to solve the game

[Black]

What are your most confident reads Thommyboy

[Black]

Can you elaborate on your Katsuki and Hu Tao reads a bit?

[Black]

I guess just your Katsuki read then

[Black]

I guess just your Katsuki read then

Yes but it may take me a little bit to consolidate how I'm feeling into a post because I'm still at work for a little bit.

No rush. I'm about to clock in myself

[Black]

I think when it comes to the day ending wagon
I’m fine if it’s either Snivy or Dragon

I'm ok with a Snivy fade

I pretty much just don't want to fade within {Hu, Gamma, Katsuki} today

The rest are fair game but I'd feel better about some than others

[Black]

I guess just your Katsuki read then

Yes but it may take me a little bit to consolidate how I'm feeling into a post because I'm still at work for a little bit.

Can you also go over your Dave read a little when you get around to it? I think I'm townreading him tonally so I'm curious what you see there

[Black]

Kinda want to throw Dave in my Do Not Fade list today

{Hu, Gamma, Katsuki, Dave}

[Black]

^ yep

[Black]

Katsuki feels townie over the last couple of pages and her scumread on me feels more natural than Jackson's

Black's been my most solid scumread today and I would like to think I'm not wrong on that one.
I didn't like a lot of Dragon's posts that he made recently, namely #348, 372, 375 and 428

I don't understand this though. If I've been your most solid scumread then why haven't you pushed me at all? You say you don't think you're wrong but you haven't cased me at all, you've just been voting for existing wagons instead

I believe this read is genuine but I've never been confident that someone is scum and just ignored them or didn't push them at all. I'd like to understand where you're coming from here

1. I rarely case people in the wall poster sense.

2. Too much effort to push a player that only I am scumreading D1. Much easier to flip scumbuddies first and then nom you off their flips instead.

3. I quite like you as a player, and was perfectly happy to sit back and watch you play. After all, I don't have to necessarily get you nom'ed D1, just nom'ed at some point during the game. Obviously carried the risk of me dying overnight early before being able to lay down a foundation for you being scum.
On that note will be quite sad if it turns out that I'm entirely wrong about my reads this game and you were town. I have too many townreads for that to really make sense though, and would involve me being entirely wrong about all my scum/town reads. I don't believe we have something like a kyouko+hutao centered scumteam so.

1. I'm not saying you should wallpost a case. I just think explaining why you think I'm scum might help others see what you're seeing

2. I just don't agree with this. If you are the most confident in scum!me then it shouldn't be a ton of effort to push me, regardless of what the other players think. You haven't even tried. You've barely elaborated on your scumread at all. That approach just doesn't make sense to me

3. Are you typically right about your D1 reads? Because I'm not and I'll be shocked if your D1 read accuracy is high

[Black]

I overlooked this last night because I was a little flattered but this doesn't sound like something a townie would say about someone they think is scum

Why can't I say that? Even if I think you're wolf, it isn't like that throws how I feel about you as a player out of the window, and even with that as of the mafia tournament I've been trying to play in a way that combats my tendency to tunnel/conf-bias myself so I try and address people as if they

are

Town even if I think they aren't, as I feel there are no downsides to doing so as if I am wrong on them, it makes it easier to get to the point where I can correct myself as typically when I tunnel I can get quite aggressive and burn possible bridges in a game which I don't ever really wanna do. It also creates a nicer environment to play in, when people know how I truly feel about them even if I am pushing them.

I mean you can say it but it doesn't really match your belief that I'm scum. You said you can't wait for me to pop off later which implies you think I'm town

I don't think addressing scumreads as if they are town makes a lot of sense and this just sounds like a poor excuse for a perspective slip

[Black]

VOTE: JacksonVirgo

I'm getting gut pings here that this slot is scum. I think they have been super appease-y in their interactions with me/Thom despite us being their top scumreads. I also think they've been kinda defensive too

I think they had a perspective slip regarding me and saying they think I'm a good player and they can't wait for me to pop off later, despite me being their biggest scumread. I'm not buying the excuse that they were trying to address me as town even though they don't think I am

It feels like they are ignoring half of the playerlist which gives me the feeling that they're not trying to solve at all. They just want to push their own little agenda to blend in and seem like they're doing stuff

I'm willing to move elsewhere if this doesn't get support but I think we should wagon this rn

[Black]

Regarding my theory. I thought Jackson and Thom could be scum together. I didn't like the way Jackson was attacking my townread on Thom and it felt like they knew Thom was scum and was using that to try to paint me in a bad light

I joined the wagon because I wanted to see how Jackson reacted to the wagon if it gained momentum. I figured they would abandon ship. The vote felt like distancing and I didn't think Jackson would be down to full on bus this early. The wagon didn't really gain any interest though so I wasn't able to gauge their reaction to it

I'm less convinced in this pairing after asking Thom about Jackson and seeing them interact some more, but it's still a possibility. I think Jackson is probably scum independent of Thom's alignment

[Black]

Are you not listening to me?

Yes I'm listening to you, I just don't believe you

[Black]

1. I'm not saying you should wallpost a case. I just think explaining why you think I'm scum might help others see what you're seeing

2. I just don't agree with this. If you are the most confident in scum!me then it shouldn't be a ton of effort to push me, regardless of what the other players think. You haven't even tried. You've barely elaborated on your scumread at all. That approach just doesn't make sense to me

3. Are you typically right about your D1 reads? Because I'm not and I'll be shocked if your D1 read accuracy is high

1. I don't see the benefit of giving scum that information before I'm ready to nom them.

2. This may be the case if it weren't for the fact that there are already available wagons on acceptable nomcandidates to me. Drumming up a push on you would only serve to dilute focus, and there's no sense in distracting one scumwagon with another.

3. In games where I don't have a good read on the game I tend to not state any reads publicly, and continue to observe deeper into the game until they form. Other games, I get players whom I can read in the span of a couple posts.

If you want examples of high accuracy, off the top of my head I'll give you these games:

viewtopic.php?p=6761905#p6761905
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=15776
viewtopic.php?t=17423

1. I guess the benefit would be to show others why I'm scummy. But I do understand the concept of not wanting to let someone you think is scum interact with your reasons to try and sway you or convince others you're wrong

2. You thought I was scum very early though so I don't really think diluting focus is a great reason to not push me

3. I'm impressed if your D1 read accuracy is actually good. That's not very common in my experience. I don't have the time on my lunch break to look over those games but I'll take your word for it. The way you worded it just seemed like you'll be surprised if you're wrong about people which I thought was weird because I'm constantly having to reevaluate my reads

[Black]

Regarding my theory. I thought Jackson and Thom could be scum together. I didn't like the way Jackson was attacking my townread on Thom and it felt like they knew Thom was scum and was using that to try to paint me in a bad light

I joined the wagon because I wanted to see how Jackson reacted to the wagon if it gained momentum. I figured they would abandon ship. The vote felt like distancing and I didn't think Jackson would be down to full on bus this early. The wagon didn't really gain any interest though so I wasn't able to gauge their reaction to it

I'm less convinced in this pairing after asking Thom about Jackson and seeing them interact some more, but it's still a possibility. I think Jackson is probably scum independent of Thom's alignment

I assumed it would be something like this, did you go into this still with the town-read on Thom?

Once I got paranoid that you were scum together Thom dropped from my townreads

[Black]

Regarding my theory. I thought Jackson and Thom could be scum together. I didn't like the way Jackson was attacking my townread on Thom and it felt like they knew Thom was scum and was using that to try to paint me in a bad light

I joined the wagon because I wanted to see how Jackson reacted to the wagon if it gained momentum. I figured they would abandon ship. The vote felt like distancing and I didn't think Jackson would be down to full on bus this early. The wagon didn't really gain any interest though so I wasn't able to gauge their reaction to it

I'm less convinced in this pairing after asking Thom about Jackson and seeing them interact some more, but it's still a possibility. I think Jackson is probably scum independent of Thom's alignment

I assumed it would be something like this, did you go into this still with the town-read on Thom?

Once I got paranoid that you were scum together Thom dropped from my townreads

What caused you to be paranoid to begin with?

Your whole catchup and then your subsequent push on me/Thom

It felt like you were using the fact that you knew Thom was scum as a way to undermine my townread on him. And I felt like you voting for Thom instead of me was a distancing attempt

[Black]

@kyouko you should help me wagon Jackson

[Black]

I still think you could be scum together but I'm less sure than I was last night

[Black]

Thom I don't think your reasons for having Jackson so high in your reads are very good, and you put an asterisk by him which means you're confident in the read. Something feels off about that

[Black]

By them*

Sorry I was typing too fast

[Black]

I guess just your Katsuki read then

Yes but it may take me a little bit to consolidate how I'm feeling into a post because I'm still at work for a little bit.

Can you also go over your Dave read a little when you get around to it? I think I'm townreading him tonally so I'm curious what you see there

This likely happens tomorrow, because my brain is a little too fried to reread his ISO today. I did briefly go into detail, but will speak about specific post that pinged me tomorrow if that's fine?

Of course. No rush

[Black]

@Black, Naerys, Hu Tao, how do you feel about voting Kyo here?

She's in my PoE but I wouldn't feel as good about fading her as I would others. I think she's fine for now

Why are you scumreading her?

[Black]

I'm not sure if that's true. She feels similar to how she did in Mini Normal 2319 and her reads weren't great there and she wasn't super active. Do you see similarities there or is it just me

[Black]

Yay more Pokemon avatars! Looks good Thomith

[Black]

Dragon yours is pretty cool too but it's lacking in the Pokemon department

[Black]

I thought she was obvtown in 2319 but maybe I was just TMI'ing as scum

What is different about her play in that game in your opinion?

[Black]

you are super welcome to PM me pokemon avatars that look good and I might choose one.

Hi I think this one would look fabulous on you.

Spoiler:

[Black]

My avatar is from Pokemon but it's a little more obscure so only the real cool kids will recognize it

[Black]

Same

Btw Black, Thomith is beating you with pokemon avatars rn

Hmmm that made more sense in my head

I meant he's filling my inbox with them

I'm at work

If I was at home on my PC I would be a bit more useful

[Black]

My avatar is from Pokemon but it's a little more obscure so only the real cool kids will recognize it

Hello Zinnia
The Delta episodes were the best part of ORAS.

YES!

Thomith is officially a cool kid

[Black]

Oh, I guess USA timezones do work that way (it's almost midnight here)

I'll be expecting pokemon avatars when you get home though.

Idk I think your current Dragonair is gonna be hard to top. I'm loving the color scheme

And yeah the game might be slightly derailed by Pokemon atm but I think that's perfectly acceptable

[Black]

My avatar is from Pokemon but it's a little more obscure so only the real cool kids will recognize it

I chuckled when I saw you were Zinnia
ftr I am a character from Paldea

I love Penny so much. Kinda sad they didn't introduce a new Eeveelution in Gen 9. She would have been the perfect person to have it

[Black]

VOTE: Thom

I want to explore this

I'm on the fence with it. His posting has improved.

I'm curious what you think about Jackson

[Black]

Hmmm. Ok

I'm willing to admit I could be wrong about Jackson

I'm not really seeing kyouko!scum though

[Black]

KittyTacky - Towny
davesaz - unsure
ssbm_kyouko - unsure
Celebloki - leaning sus
DragonEater70 - sus
camelCasedSnivy - unsure
Naerys - unsure
Gamma Emerald - unsure
Katsuki - unsure
Black - towny
Thomith - unsure but leaning sus

This is where I'm at right now.

What changed between this post and now regarding kyouko?

[Black]

Also Hu do you still scumread Dragon? I'm wondering how your read on him fits in with your kyouko read considering she also thinks he's scum

[Black]

At this point, I'm half amused by watching to see who actually gets deadline nom'ed because we're 2 days out and still can't seem to come to a consensus. Scum are obviously fine with this gamestate so long as the wagon isn't on them. Hopefully those of you who are town start focusing up.

I am still of the opinion that Dragon has a high probability to flip scum here, and provides us the most information pertaining to the alignment of other players to crack this game wide open.

I believe this happened in the game where I rhymed previously
I ended up sniffing out a scum that was slanking deviously
I don't think we need to vote out another low-content slot
But I think taking the road less traveled is worth a shot

How about this, you give me dragon today, and I give you CCS tomorrow if I live? In the event that Black is scum, I don't think I live past today, and with dragon scumflip I think it'll be enough for you guys to go back and observe how diligently she worked to construct any wagon not named dragon from like pg16 on without me.

If we nom CCS today and he flips town, and I die overnight, I don't have the confidence that you guys will consecutively nom Dragon and Black D2/3 accordingly.

Your Dragon/Black read is hot garbage

There are many players I haven't tried to wagon that are not named Dragon

You're in a really bad tunnel rn if you're town

[Black]

Kitty, Hu, Gamma, Dave, kyouko, Katsuki

I haven't tried to build a wagon on over half the player list so why are you misrepping me so bad?

Wake tf up

[Black]

Kitty, Hu, Gamma, Dave, kyouko, Katsuki

I haven't tried to build a wagon on over half the player list so why are you misrepping me so bad?

Wake tf up

I did not misrep you, I said any wagon not dragon, not every single player not dragon. Factually, it's true that you have not entertained a dragon wagon once. The closest you came was a statement saying

"dragon could be scum"

, then later calling him town that same page.

I like Dragon and I don't think he's been particularly scummy so of course I haven't entertained a wagon there. And yeah I think he could be scum but he's in the bottom half of the players I'd like to fade today, so no, I won't be helping you push there

[Black]

VOTE: Naerys

I think I want to give my Jackson read more time to develop, and I would rather do this over CCS

I don't like how Naerys tried to flirt with the idea of joining the CCS wagon after it gained momentum. Her excuse for not actually placing a vote there was because it seemed like other people didn't want to end the day yet, which could be a legit reason, but I'm reading it as her being self-conscious about placing a tail-end vote on a mislim

I think the whole "yeet me pls" is theatre to make us think she's fine with being faded so we don't actually fade there. She says she has a plan but I'm not really buying it

Plus she already claimed VT so if we just push this through then we don't have to risk anyone else claiming

[Black]

I like Dragon and I don't think he's been particularly scummy so of course I haven't entertained a wagon there. And yeah I think he could be scum but he's in the bottom half of the players I'd like to fade today, so no, I won't be helping you push there

That's quite a lot of players you have in the pool ahead of "could be scum" then.

Unlucky for me, was hoping you could help me untunnel off of you.

There's a lot of players I think could be scum. I only have 4 in my Do Not Fade list and I'm even paranoid that some of them could be scum. That's just who I am

I think your tunnel is a detriment to the town but I'm not going to vote for a townread just so you'll snap out of it and help solve the game

[Black]

Spoiler: Naerys sequence

I've been waffling on the original post I had and have decided to withhold it for now.

Where I am right now, I still think that Dragon is most likely to flip scum out of the leading nom candidates based off of a number of factors. I also have a sneaking suspicion that there's a good chance he is the strongest PR the wolves have.

Normally I'd be perfectly fine with D1 nomming CCS slot contribution, but I really don't like how that wagon came about. We went from stalled wagons 3 votes apiece on Dragon, Naerys and Thomith, with Thomith being the counterwagon with dragon and naerys voting for him, to suddenly being able to construct a wagon on the lurker. Nothing in his posting had changed, he could've been voted or examined at any time during the day, but no one thought to mention him at all until it came to WAGON HO!

Currently where I'm sitting looks roughly like this.

CONFTOWN:

ME

STRONGTOWN:

KYOUKO
KITTY

TOWN:

HUTAO
GE

LIKELY TOWN

THOMITH (conf town if Dragon+Naerys both flip scum)

That leaves davesaz, CCS, Jackson, Black, dragon and Naerys.

dave I'm firmly null on atm.
CCS is null leaning town
JACKSON I'm tempted to toss him into the town pile.

That conveniently leaves dragon, black and naerys. Is the game really this easy? Maybe. I'm pretty confident that there's at least two scum in that pool (wouldn't shock me if I nailed all 3, but would surprise me a bit playing with a new group of players). I quite like what Black has been doing from a scum perspective, and in my eyes it makes the most sense that it stems from Dragon being scum. Plus, she's no longer a fluffy adorable Umbreon. If Dragon flips scum, she is buddy #1 and needs to be TURBONOMMED accordingly.

So TL;DR, at the moment I think the game is fairly straight forward, with Dragon likely to be scum and his buddies being pretty obvious post-flip. Therefore I'm happiest with a Dragon nom today.

Thom+katsuki are scum
I need to find the last one

I've been waffling on the original post I had and have decided to withhold it for now.

Where I am right now, I still think that Dragon is most likely to flip scum out of the leading nom candidates based off of a number of factors. I also have a sneaking suspicion that there's a good chance he is the strongest PR the wolves have.

Normally I'd be perfectly fine with D1 nomming CCS slot contribution, but I really don't like how that wagon came about. We went from stalled wagons 3 votes apiece on Dragon, Naerys and Thomith, with Thomith being the counterwagon with dragon and naerys voting for him, to suddenly being able to construct a wagon on the lurker. Nothing in his posting had changed, he could've been voted or examined at any time during the day, but no one thought to mention him at all until it came to WAGON HO!

Currently where I'm sitting looks roughly like this.

CONFTOWN:

ME

STRONGTOWN:

KYOUKO
KITTY

TOWN:

HUTAO
GE

LIKELY TOWN

THOMITH (conf town if Dragon+Naerys both flip scum)

That leaves davesaz, CCS, Jackson, Black, dragon and Naerys.

dave I'm firmly null on atm.
CCS is null leaning town
JACKSON I'm tempted to toss him into the town pile.

That conveniently leaves dragon, black and naerys. Is the game really this easy? Maybe. I'm pretty confident that there's at least two scum in that pool (wouldn't shock me if I nailed all 3, but would surprise me a bit playing with a new group of players). I quite like what Black has been doing from a scum perspective, and in my eyes it makes the most sense that it stems from Dragon being scum. Plus, she's no longer a fluffy adorable Umbreon. If Dragon flips scum, she is buddy #1 and needs to be TURBONOMMED accordingly.

So TL;DR, at the moment I think the game is fairly straight forward, with Dragon likely to be scum and his buddies being pretty obvious post-flip. Therefore I'm happiest with a Dragon nom today.

Thom+katsuki are scum
I need to find the last one

Why are we scum together?

Those wall posts are legit scummy

Those wall posts are legit scummy

Katsukis or mine, or both?

Are you saying that you SR us both I individually then, or that we have partner equity?

Bye

I dont understand why you're actively just being unhelpful.
I've legitimately never seen you like this before.

I want to get d1 limmed

After my flip use brains and look into kitty-black-thom -> two are going after easy target and one feels reluctant to vote vanilla

This feels really weird to me. Almost like Naerys forgot for a second that she's trying a "I want to be faded angle" and she started to solve again. When Thom questions her read she just says "Bye" and "I want to get D1 limmed". Then she gives a final solving theory under the assumption that she is the guaranteed fade. It just doesn't feel very real to me

[Black]

This feels really weird to me. Almost like Naerys forgot for a second that she's trying a "I want to be faded angle" and she started to solve again. When Thom questions her read she just says "Bye" and "I want to get D1 limmed". Then she gives a final solving theory under the assumption that she is the guaranteed fade. It just doesn't feel very real to me

Alright, playing devil's advocate. Why is this weird posting necessarily wolfy? Because I can definitely understand what you're seeing, I am not entirely sure a wolf would be doing this

If Naerys is scum I don't think she would be doing this on purpose. I think some scum players are worse at handling pressure than others. I'm not sure if Naerys is one of these players but based on a very weak personality read I've gotten on her over the course of a few recent games, I think she could be

I'm getting the vibe that she's flailing a little and not sure if she should try to seem townie or if she should keep up her "I want to be faded" tactic which would require her to probably act less townie. I think this behavior is more likely to come from scum buckling under pressure than town that is actually wanting to solve the game. I think there's a disconnect between Naerys's various association posts where she clearly wants to look like she's solving and her sudden willingness to want to stop playing and be faded

I think Naerys might play a certain way as scum and I have a feeling this is what it looks like

[Black]

Naerys's solving is almost entirely association posts which I don't remember seeing much of in her recent town games. Her ISO is full of them here

Had to go check but in Mini Normal 2316 she had a grand total of ZERO association posts. She never put two people together as scum, not even once. Same for Micro Normal 1094. No pair theories

I don't think she is looking at the game from a town perspective like she was in our recent games. Even aside from the association stuff, she's playing completely different

I think solving and forming legit scumreads is generally much harder as scum and the association stuff could be an easy outlet for her to seem like she has scumreads

[Black]

Spoiler: holy associatives batman

Hu plus Thom might be buddies

Plot twist: Dragon+Black are scum
hopefully thats not true

Town!snivy would probably mean the scum team is gamma+dave+1
I dont like dave/gamma interactions

Scum!snivy maybe with kitty and katsuki

Gamma/Dave in my scum reads might be bcz i dont really vibe with all those rhymes. At the beginning it was funny but it kinda got old quickly.

I've been waffling on the original post I had and have decided to withhold it for now.

Where I am right now, I still think that Dragon is most likely to flip scum out of the leading nom candidates based off of a number of factors. I also have a sneaking suspicion that there's a good chance he is the strongest PR the wolves have.

Normally I'd be perfectly fine with D1 nomming CCS slot contribution, but I really don't like how that wagon came about. We went from stalled wagons 3 votes apiece on Dragon, Naerys and Thomith, with Thomith being the counterwagon with dragon and naerys voting for him, to suddenly being able to construct a wagon on the lurker. Nothing in his posting had changed, he could've been voted or examined at any time during the day, but no one thought to mention him at all until it came to WAGON HO!

Currently where I'm sitting looks roughly like this.

CONFTOWN:

ME

STRONGTOWN:

KYOUKO
KITTY

TOWN:

HUTAO
GE

LIKELY TOWN

THOMITH (conf town if Dragon+Naerys both flip scum)

That leaves davesaz, CCS, Jackson, Black, dragon and Naerys.

dave I'm firmly null on atm.
CCS is null leaning town
JACKSON I'm tempted to toss him into the town pile.

That conveniently leaves dragon, black and naerys. Is the game really this easy? Maybe. I'm pretty confident that there's at least two scum in that pool (wouldn't shock me if I nailed all 3, but would surprise me a bit playing with a new group of players). I quite like what Black has been doing from a scum perspective, and in my eyes it makes the most sense that it stems from Dragon being scum. Plus, she's no longer a fluffy adorable Umbreon. If Dragon flips scum, she is buddy #1 and needs to be TURBONOMMED accordingly.

So TL;DR, at the moment I think the game is fairly straight forward, with Dragon likely to be scum and his buddies being pretty obvious post-flip. Therefore I'm happiest with a Dragon nom today.

Thom+katsuki are scum
I need to find the last one

After my flip use brains and look into kitty-black-thom -> two are going after easy target and one feels reluctant to vote vanilla

I think this type of solving is extremely out of character for her town game

I would be super interested to see if these exist in her scum game. I'll go looking but I'm on mobile so give me a second

[Black]

Well her first game on the site was a town game and I found this:

Well,i can see some possibilities of scum teams -

Karnage+Fdse (i´ll have kinda hard time believing that bugspray was doc, its just...weird)
Karnage+ Non Imh - perhaps this is bit overthinking tho - idk if scum would stage this
Non Imh + flavor leaf
flavor leaf + fdse

Karnage+Flavor leaf is very unlikely, but that would be kinda dangerous combination imho

So she's certainly capable of thinking of the game in this way as town. This was at the very end of the game though and not all throughout D1, so idk. She didn't make associations earlier in that game

[Black]

Naerys have you ever rolled scum before

[Black]

Naerys have you ever rolled scum before

I keep saying that no, i didnt

Sorry. I couldn't remember if you've never rolled it or if it's just been a long time

[Black]

I don't think it's a coincidence that Naerys's play here feels very different than her town games. She finally rolled scum

[Black]

Holy fuck I read your recent posts as Dragon, thom. These avatar changes are throwing me off

Same

[Black]

Mine

>:C

[Black]

Jackson I don't think your kitty vote is doing much. It got him to talk a little and I like the idea behind pressuring him to do more but I don't think we're fading Kitty today

Do you have any scumreads besides me and Thomith?

[Black]

Jackson I don't think your kitty vote is doing much. It got him to talk a little and I like the idea behind pressuring him to do more but I don't think we're fading Kitty today

Do you have any scumreads besides me and Thomith?

With all due respect, I don't care for consolidation votes when I don't feel like my vote is doing anything in particular if that's what you're suggesting.

Huh? You don't plan on consolidating to help push one of these wagons through?

[Black]

Ok. I don't really think you're going to get enough support for a kitty fade but I guess you can try. I don't think your case on him is very convincing

[Black]

Jackson I don't think your kitty vote is doing much. It got him to talk a little and I like the idea behind pressuring him to do more but I don't think we're fading Kitty today

Do you have any scumreads besides me and Thomith?

With all due respect, I don't care for consolidation votes when I don't feel like my vote is doing anything in particular if that's what you're suggesting.

Huh? You don't plan on consolidating to help push one of these wagons through?

I don't mind consolidating if I feel my vote is going to do something, but placing it just for the sake of placing it makes me feel icky and always has

Consolidating is not placing a vote for the sake of placing it though. You're still voting for a scumread, just not your top choice

[Black]

If either Naerys or Dragon goes out I'd be a-okay. I'm planning on doing a proper ISO-dive and scum-case on Kitty before day end if I find time. Only reason I'd consolidate my vote is if I feel a wagon I'm not okay with is getting pushed, which atm doesn't seem to be happening

That's fair. I'll be looking forward to your kitty case

[Black]

VOTE: Naerys

I think I want to give my Jackson read more time to develop, and I would rather do this over CCS

I don't like how Naerys tried to flirt with the idea of joining the CCS wagon after it gained momentum. Her excuse for not actually placing a vote there was because it seemed like other people didn't want to end the day yet, which could be a legit reason, but I'm reading it as her being self-conscious about placing a tail-end vote on a mislim

I think the whole "yeet me pls" is theatre to make us think she's fine with being faded so we don't actually fade there. She says she has a plan but I'm not really buying it

Plus she already claimed VT so if we just push this through then we don't have to risk anyone else claiming

Naerys isn't a horrible consensus wagon, their recent posting has been lacklustre at best as well so they've been dropping pretty substantially in my reads.

Jackson I don't think your kitty vote is doing much. It got him to talk a little and I like the idea behind pressuring him to do more but I don't think we're fading Kitty today

Do you have any scumreads besides me and Thomith?

With all due respect, I don't care for consolidation votes when I don't feel like my vote is doing anything in particular if that's what you're suggesting.

The contrast between these two posts is a little jarring

Jackson could be a Naerys partner

[Black]

If I had to guess I would say Dragon/Thomith is TvT

And if one was wolf you'd be saying Dragon correct?

Jackson what was the point of this question

[Black]

Naerys isn't a horrible consensus wagon, their recent posting has been lacklustre at best as well so they've been dropping pretty substantially in my reads

Why was Naerys high up in your reads to begin with? Why did you think she was town initially?

[Black]

Naerys hasn't interacted with or mentioned the Jackson slot at all

And now Jackson is flirting with the idea of voting for Naerys while simultaneously pushing a kitty fade

I know preflip associations are weak but I think there's partner equity here

[Black]

If I had to guess I would say Dragon/Thomith is TvT

And if one was wolf you'd be saying Dragon correct?

Jackson what was the point of this question

Honestly, don't remember

???

I don't want to call you a liar but I think it's weird to just forget why you asked something if you were legitimately trying to solve with that question. You asked it yesterday

[Black]

Sorry, you asked it Wednesday, but I still think forgetting why you asked something is a little unusual

[Black]

Naerys isn't a horrible consensus wagon, their recent posting has been lacklustre at best as well so they've been dropping pretty substantially in my reads

Why was Naerys high up in your reads to begin with? Why did you think she was town initially?

I don't believe I ever considered her Town specifically, I said specifically that I scum-read her in every single game we've played together so I was willing to look past a few things. What I didn't say but what I was trying to do was look for a logical trail I can follow so I can have a good feeling it isn't me just doing my usual and scum-reading based on who she is.

If she "dropped pretty substantially in [your] reads" then you either townread her and now she's more null or a scumlean, or you null read her and now she would be a scumread. If you're saying you didn't townread her then that should mean her recent posting has put her super low on your list, and in that case why would you be reluctant to vote there?

[Black]

Sorry, you asked it Wednesday, but I still think forgetting why you asked something is a little unusual

You'd prefer I make it up?

No. I would prefer it if you remembered why you asked questions because that shows me you're actually trying to solve and not just throwing questions out to seem like you're doing stuff

[Black]

But if you legitimately forgot then I don't want to push this point further and risk upsetting you

[Black]

Naerys isn't a horrible consensus wagon, their recent posting has been lacklustre at best as well so they've been dropping pretty substantially in my reads

Why was Naerys high up in your reads to begin with? Why did you think she was town initially?

I don't believe I ever considered her Town specifically, I said specifically that I scum-read her in every single game we've played together so I was willing to look past a few things. What I didn't say but what I was trying to do was look for a logical trail I can follow so I can have a good feeling it isn't me just doing my usual and scum-reading based on who she is.

If she "dropped pretty substantially in [your] reads" then you either townread her and now she's more null or a scumlean, or you null read her and now she would be a scumread. If you're saying you didn't townread her then that should mean her recent posting has put her super low on your list, and in that case why would you be reluctant to vote there?

I was only "reluctant" because I forgot we needed to hammer here to get an elim, and thus I felt my vote was useless to move and I'd prefer staying where I am wanting it more in the case that wagon did form over time on Kitty.

Ok

I'll be expecting you to help us push the Naerys wagon through if your kitty wagon doesn't pop off

[Black]

Do you think Naerys or Dragon is more likely to flip scum?

[Black]

Sorry, I've been meaning to put a bit more effort into the game today and do some serious reading and ISO diving, but my time management skills and my decision making suck and I kinda have to sleep right now. But tomorrow is Saturday so I'll be definitely able to do that

From reading the last page only I wanna VOTE: dave

Do you townread Naerys?