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[Gypyx]

1.7

SuperFluousNinja (3) :

oatsmaster / Hu Tao / Roden

Roden (2) :

Luca Blight / SuperflousNinja

DarthPunk (2) :

Dannflor / gob

outoforder (2) :

Naerys / Vivax

Dunnstral (2) :

Grackaroni / DarthPunk

Not Voting (2):

Dunnstral / outoforder

With 13 Alive, it takes 7 to secure an execution.

Day One ends in (expired on 2024-02-12 04:48:03)

Mod Notes

The fog is coming

Flavor

Spoiler:

So, before we get into the actual complaining, i think a plot summary is in order? I dunno you tell me, maybe i have an audience of hardcore murderHEADS and this is superfluous but probably not

I mean, it's pretty simple, the setting is that we're on copper-9, an exoplante where people do mining stuff, and by people i mean antropomorphic robots, humans kinda get to supervize everything, but maybe they shouldn't actually cause they're dumb and stupid and made everything explode on accident, causing all humans but conviniently none of the robots to die

so, given they weren't fan of working for their whole lives without pay or anything, they chose to instead take the role of the humans and emulate how they lived before everything went boom

[Gypyx]

maybe writing flavor at midnight isn't the best idea, so many spelling errors

[Luca Blight]

Spoiler:

I just didn't feel like my vote on outoforder was very well placed after talking to both you and DarthPunk

aside from that it was largely for show, i wanted to share where my reads were at

Does that mean you've changed your opinion on outoforder?

Dannflor ejected thread for a while without answering this question, at the time.
Maybe I should just sheep Luca.

i'm not sure Dann is town.

I liked the fact he wrote that case on ninja, but he didn't really do anything with it, and now he has a case on me he is not really doing anything with.

Seems to me he is attacking big voices ITT and then not really achieving anything and I am not sure he actually cares about determining our alignments as much as he cares about the fact he wrote a case.

Like cases are fine, but where is the follow up pressure/ questioning? He just doesn't seem invested or curious beyond his like big case post and for the confidence that he seems to have, lack of follow up is a big big red flag.

I completely disagree with this. Dann did do something with his Ninja case - he used it to sort Ninja, based on her reaction, and in a very fair way - not jumping on her initial unsatisfactory response to the case. Dann also used the reactions generated by the case to further sort players in the game, including yourself.

[SuperfluousNinja]

I would really like ninjas answer as to why she townreads dann. It’s a very common mafia tactic to try and pocket someone right after they drop their scumread of them and this screams to me like that’s happening.

One of the biggest reasons why is because Dann seems to have his ear to the ground this game and is thus well aware of how much content I am putting out here. Given that, I think Dann would have to be completely bonkers to try and push me, of all people, with that fairly detailed post he wrote. A scum version of him HAS to know that of course I'm going to dive deep into all of that and rip it up, and he'd know that his argument was bullshit. Like why would he pick a fight with a lengthy response type of person who isn't afraid to get their hands dirty? It makes a lot more sense to do it as town and genuinely believing all of it to be true.

But let me also be clear about something, I would say I LEAN town. I do have some issues with not understanding Dann's line of thinking on everything, and it does seem like Dann drums up a lot of conjecture. He's put a LOT of words in my mouth. That absolutely can just be confirmation bias so it should not (and does not) mean that I scumread Dann. My read on Dann is light town, not solid town.

Looking through his reads in post 538, we're not perfectly aligned, but we're about 75% aligned on it. And his take on Darth, even though I do disagree with it, does at least seem to have some rationale behind it. Like I consider post 536 to be decent food for thought, but I still kinda lean towards it being more confirmation bias than anything else. I've seen people make way worse cases against people in this game and in a way less delicate manner, so I'm not going to take that read that I disagree with as clear evidence of guilt.

Ok maybe I’m wrong on ninja town after all

Explain? Is this because of what I said about you?

[SuperfluousNinja]

No I don't have any assumption that you're distancing from each other. To be honest I couldn't even remember what your stances towards each other were.

Okay. Well, Roden is my strongest scum read and I would very much love to see him yeeted today. Roden is also currently voting for me and used language in that vote that makes it seem like that opinion is pretty rock-solid and isn't going to change.

Does knowing this change anything for you?

I just view both of you as more likely scum than random for having acted strangely so far. Maybe 30-40%.

This is maybe too broad of a question, but can I ask in what ways I have "acted strangely"? I can explain my actions on everything; I have nothing to hide. You are free to press me and interrogate me as thoroughly as you like.

I compare everyone against my own view of their capabilities as players and having played with Oats/Darth/Vivax a lot I don't think any of them have posted anything that they aren't capable of posting as scum, so I can't give them a town read.

I have liked some of Luca's posts so far this game.

Okay, that seems sensible. I don't have anything to add; I'm just leaving this here so you know I read it

For me it was the vague list post into saying that you'd missed Dannfloor's post on you and that you were still mulling over your thoughts on him. Usually I'd expect players to have immediate reactions to people pushing them.

I don't usually like to judge entrance posts but your entrance also reads as forced to me... with the 'yeehaaaw' and the dad joke.

Okay, but I was hoping for more than just why you feel how you feel about me. The main point of my post was to see how you'd address your clear read conflict on both Roden and myself, so I figured you'd at least also comment on your read on Roden and maybe say something about how your reads are clearly extremely difficult to reconcile, given how much Roden and I are at each other's throats.

Can I ask also, if you are able to remember / speak to this, when you wrote this reply, how much of the thread had you caught up on? Had you read everything by this point?

[SuperfluousNinja]

Dunnstral

- 7 total posts as of writing this, and the only thing they've really talked about is a take on meta game analysis in post 372, about whether activity level is a sign of guilt. This is as good a time as any to explain my real intent with bringing up the fact that I think less activity is a sign of guilt: it was purely to try and light a fire under the asses of scum and get them to post more. My hope was that it would scare scum lurkers into providing more content, which is great, because the more scum has to say and the more content they have to provide, the more likely they are to screw up and get caught. When you're guilty, you increase your chances of getting caught every time you touch your keyboard and I don't think any scum is unaware of this fact, and I absolutely believe that plays out in games like this.

I mean I will fucking DIE on that hill, that I believe that the guilty just say less, and I cannot fathom why anyone legitimately believes otherwise. I am sympathetic to the view that it doesn't make for a

solid

case against anyone, but you have to be COMPLETELY off your rocker if you don't actually believe that the guilty are simply less likely to say stuff in this game, period.

So on that note, if you're town and you pushed back on me on this, just literally

what the fuck are you doing???

Were you not able to tell why a person might say something like this? If you are actually town and you argued against me on this, not only did you make what I think is a pretty dumb argument, you also just completely obliterated my move to try and scare scum into talking more, and at this point you've done that REALLY effectively, as now scum can look at all the pushback I got for trying to argue that low activity level means something and they can kick back with their cuppa tea or whatever calming beverage they prefer to consume and just let us townies provide all the content eating each other up while doing next to nothing to provide that content that will look scummy. Like, use your heads, people, and understand the implications of your thoughts and actions.

But I digress, the fact that Dunnstral offered so little content and that the only content is meta game analysis, I lean more scum, but there's just not enough content here to really nail that read down.

What am I doing? You offered up what I felt was a bad argument and I put up counterpoints to that. There is a real trend in games to go after the lowest posters as that results in the least push back and I like to steer away from that, especially when, as i've pointed out, they are not more often than not mafia.

Continuing with the meta game analysis as your only contribution to the game is definitely NOT giving me any townie vibes, FYI.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Why would scum not want to stir shit up with a lengthy response type person?

Because think about the low hanging fruit that IS available. If they just wanted to choose a target to go after, if the objective really is, as you argue, to just lay down a read on any ol' person for the sole purpose of trying to appear townie, then why not pick someone who is at LEAST largely inactive? Instead they chose someone who is going into detail very often, who is making an effort to pick things apart, drill deeper, be more engaged with posts and materials than most of the other players in this game. That in and of itself makes for a bad target for this exercise, but again, you have to consider the full context, all of the choices available to Dann and realize that the majority of the players in this game would have been better choices.

You aren’t super active and you leave the thread often. That’s hardly some deterrent for scum to not push town!ninja.

I disagree completely. It sure feels to me like the amount of time I spend at my laptop, reading threads, picking out things I want to reply to, suggests a high level of activity. I'm literally losing sleep over this game and thinking about who I want to ask what and what this means or that means in this game. I've posted 70 times out of the 806 posts in this game, and while you may not describe that as "SUPER" active, it's clearly above the average. Like honestly I couldn't disagree harder with any argument you might make that I'm at least in the lower half in terms of activity level in this game, and I think any other active person in this game would agree with me on that.

Besides, it's still not even about the number of posts but rather what I am putting in to them. I bet if you counted the number of WORDS I have contributed to this entire thread, not just the post, there's a good chance I would come out on top. You're making a bad argument here.

This is just some ego talking that you somehow managed to convince a town!dann of your amazing argument that he doesnt push back at literally anything you said in response to the thing he’s spent the most time on so far. It’s not that his argument is so super airtight, it’s that you’d expect the main pusher to still probe and prod.

Well I don't. You can call it my ego if you like, but I triple dog dare you to find any more detailed response in this game to a post than what I gave there. I'm sure there's at least a little bit of ego on my part, but I could objectively argue how much more thorough of a response that was than any other in this thread, and that would help to explain why his reaction afterwards is likewise different from any other stuff that has happened in this game.

Yes literally this entire game is conjecture.

But people should be able to back it up with SOMETHING. If I said you were an alien from mars, wouldn't you hope, at the VERY least, that I gave some little tidbit of evidence suggesting that you might be an alien, rather than just "I dunno man, I guess I just kinda feel in my gut like you're an alien!" Like maybe I saw you hang out by spaceships often, or I think your skin is a little greener than average. At least SOMETHING. What you did there, you did the thing where you just gave an opinion / hypothesis and the only supporting evidence is basically "it has to be true because it aligns with ANOTHER opinion", which is not solid evidence of anything.

[Luca Blight]

Or even Luca, once he got off the hook he just vanished.

Vanished?

I was sleeping and then had to work, and do other things like pick my kid up from school. Did you also

'vanish'

after being scumread early doors? I also never felt like I was '

on the hook

' in the first place with one player scumreading me.

[Luca Blight]

I'd really like to narrow down some realistic elim candidates, I'm not considering vivax basically for out of game reasons. I don't want him to get day one'd again.

I'm feeling good about Grack and oats, and I feel better about you when you are here.

I don't think gob is realistic because everyone is just dismissing him as lynch bait, and while he seems really scummy to me other people seem to read him as town so maybe I am missing something. If I consider him as a Kushmasta or something then I guess it makes sense.

I like flipping Roden here probably, because I think out of the viable lynch candidates, he is the most likely to flip scum and also gives a lot of information as there has been lots of stances taken regarding him and his play.

I could also flip a lurker but I generally feel this is a losing play unless there is some additional EV somewhere with that flip.

I think this is a good post. I have similar thoughts in my mind right now.

[Luca Blight]

The most bothering thing about Dann is that every now and then he pings Dunnstral, but then he goes back to do something completely different. Now i

can see

a townie reason for this, but i admit there is a moderate chance of distancing, because that's some pretty vague shit.

I think this is weird too. I'm not mafia though, this is all on Dann.

I got the impression it's because your behaviour looks objectively suspect, but presumably Dann has some history playing with you before and knows it might be a playstyle trait of yours? That's the impression I was left with, anyway.

[Luca Blight]

Anyway I’m going to sleep. @Luca I would like your thoughts on my discussion with ooo if you have time, particularly the ninja stuff and your ooo read now

Outoforder seems quite clearly Town to me at the moment - I think he is solving the game in a way that seems sincere and I can follow his thought process for the most part.

Regarding Ninja, I see your point about her missing Dann's main post but still townreading him, but I think this has already been adequately explained, because scum!Dann suddenly pushing Ninja in that situation based on just the post she saw would seem counter-intuitive to say the least.

I currently think you are town and I've liked your recent postings, but it's not a confident read.

[Luca Blight]

In a similar sense, in case Ninja is actually town, Luca's "100% agree to that post" doesn't look good to me, because there is DEFINITELY stuff you should not agree with. It's just very easy thing to say as mafia in case you know it's actually a townie who wrote that post.

Well, I didn't agree to 'everything', such as the reasoning for the oats read which I explained, but the general outlook of the game very much reflected my own.

[Luca Blight]

'agree with' would be more accurate.

That's me caught up for now. I will look again Tomorrow to review some players specifically, such as Vivax, but for now I still feel content with my vote on Roden.

[gob]

im pro stupidity anti smartness

[Oatsmaster]

UNVOTE:

[SuperfluousNinja]

Is there any real distinction between lean town and town that causes you to spend so much time talking about why he is town and the spend so much time talking about why its only a -lean- and if it is only a lean, why spend so much time on it?

This sentence is cooked so ill try again in English,

Is there any real distinction between lean town and town?

Why spend so much time talking about why he is town to then undermine that effort talking about why it's only a -lean-?

Why does any of that matter enough for the post to exist?

First off, I think it's unfair to say I'm "spending so much time talking about Dann". Oats asked me to discuss the read, and I answered. Is there anything you can point to where I'm just going on, unprompted, about how townie I think Dann is? Can you point anything like that out to me? I talk about him in my massive reads list, where I talked about everyone, so obviously that's not a "focusing on Dann" sort of situation. Is there anything outside of me answering questions about Dann that Oats asked me where I seem to be doing this?

Even if I was, how is that alignment-indicative? If someone's actions are hard to figure out, I would hope we WOULD talk about that person more.

I mean what's the theory here? Do you think Dann and I are a scum team, and that's why I'm talking about him so much? Because I'm not even white knighting the guy and I'm admitting that my read on him isn't all that solid, trying to drop hints that if someone wants to talk me out of my town read, they definitely could. In other words, I'm wondering how much of your scum read on me is dependent on your possible independent scum read of Dann and thus you just automatically suspect anyone who might think otherwise.

[gob]

Ninja can i get a reads list with every explanation being 1-2 sentences?

[gob]

I’m 6’4 everyone

[SuperfluousNinja]

I find her really difficult to evaluate to be honest, because wherever she has played mafia before she clearly operates and analyzes the game on a set of fundamental principles that I agree with such as:

In post 341, gob wrote:
I read it and im not following sorry. Can you explain it again to me?

Okay. Then that confirms that you are, once again, just "posting for the sake of posting" and are not actively engaged in solving things for town.

And she is also pushing the thread along, making people justify their positions which is all good stuff.

Ninja can you post a list of your reads please.

I'll just copy and paste the notes I keep on my desktop.

TOWN
Luca Blight - active, good take in post 56
Dannflor - very active. Strangely aggressive? but still making good arguments
Oatsmaster - aggressive pushback on Roden, being a jerk, which is kinda townie tell

NULL
Outoforder - active, but acting in odd and suspicious ways, need better explanations
DarthPunk - very active, Post 57 struck me as sus and I commented on it
Vivax - very active, Back and forth with him over DarthPunk comment, but untrustworthy
Naerys - inactive
Hu Tao - inactive

SCUM
Gob - slightly more active but underwhelming, some bizarre play with the case on Vivax
Roden - was inactive, then strangely aggressive after I pushed him for it, defensive / dismissive
Dunnstral - inactive for a long period, pushed back on my activity level post

MalcolmTucker is afk so they could be anything.

what are the good arguments that dannflor has made?

I do wonder what Superfluous is referring to in this post with her post about Dannfloor if not the post about herself, which I know she says she missed in a later post. That's the bulk of his content that I've noted at this point and the most aggressive post that he's made.

This is why she is mafia if she is mafia. She has dann as very active and aggressive which does not match reality in a world in which she doesn't see the big case against her. It just isn't a realistic assessment of the state of his filter at that time without the post.

So is she lying about missing the post? Is her analysis of his play contrived?

Add that to the waffling/contradictions and the blatant image curation that is occurring and she is tough to read.

But I really do not understand how that assessment of Dann can come from town, so I guess she is just mafia.

You seem REALLY hung up on the shitty reads list I dropped in the midst of trying to manage my nephew having a fucking meltdown and being largely inconsolable all night. What happened was that I was having this shitty evening, then I see this big wagon piling on me and there was a demand for my reads list, and with little to no mental capacity I just copy and pasted the reads I hadn't updated at all since about post 100 or so and didn't bother to clean up. I get that the reads list sucked and is hard to wrap your brain around, but if you're going to keep forming your opinion about me based on very early game reads that were out-of-date and have now changed quite a bit based on everything else that has happened across the course of this game, I'm going to be really frustrated by that.

And no, I'm not lying about missing the post, for what that's worth. You and I both know that the very last post on a page is just more likely to get missed, especially if a new page started lickety split, which it did, since Dann immediately followed it up with a vote post.

[gob]

i see thanks

[Vivax]

OoO vs Dannflor is what I‘d like to see, and also an update on his read on Luca given he seemed very confident about him being scum early.

He is quite too focused on low postcount players for my taste.

Hell, if he‘s really rayn and town he should moreso be gunning for Dann since he tends to go for ambitious launches.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Ninja can i get a reads list with every explanation being 1-2 sentences?

If you promise to read it, sure.

[SuperfluousNinja]

But not until I get home from work which I need to get back to. I'll talk to yall this evening

[gob]

Ninja can i get a reads list with every explanation being 1-2 sentences?

If you promise to read it, sure.

format it well and i will, although it looks like you sorta already gave 1

No offense but i doubt anyone reads your big blocks of unformatted text.
Its all about looking smart not actually saying the right thing. You actually usually never want to outright state the truth as town in mafia.

[gob]

I dont really think its ninja anymore. I think we need go go darthpunk