The Werewolves of Millers Hollow (Game Over)

[Battle Mage]

hi guys!

Vote: Knox for Mayor

Vote: Zoneace for lynch

BM

[Battle Mage]

Unvote, Vote: Jahudo for Mayor

Much as i like you Fonzie, i'd like to see some fresh blood put into the spotlight today.

Unvote, Vote: Xtoxm

bit early for a softclaim, no?

BM

[Battle Mage]

vote BattleMage for Mayor

much love, comrade.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Vote Battle Mage for Mayor
Vote: Xtoxm for lynch

Softclaiming this early? Really? Plus, Xtoxm is on my standard list of good D1 lynches.

Thats what i said!

Pah, ok, i'll bite.

Unvote, Vote: Battle Mage for Mayor

.

Anyone in doubt of my credentials to hold this prestigious post, just think:
Better make me Mayor today than later, when i might be afforded opportunity to cause SERIOUS damage. xD

BM

[Battle Mage]

Today you must elect a Mayor by majority vote. Do this by posting Vote PLAYER for Mayor. You may unvote this if you wish. The Mayor's vote will be worth two for the rest of the game. Should the Mayor die, they may choose their successor. The day will not end until both a Mayor has been elected and a player has been lynched.

Anyone in doubt of my credentials to hold this prestigious post, just think:
Better make me Mayor today than later, when i might be afforded opportunity to cause SERIOUS damage. xD

I read the mod's post to mean you would cause "damage" as long as you are in the game. In fact, maybe we should wait a little while before making this decision because it does effect the game for more than just today.

Unvote Mayor

ah sorry, i didnt read that. Maybe im not cut out to be Mayor!

actually no, it just means its more important we have someone protown as mayor. So my self-vote stands. And i'm happy to run Xtoxm upto a claim right now.

BM

[Battle Mage]

unvote, Vote to Lynch: Xtoxm

I do not like that kind of play one bit.

I'm not shifting my mayor vote off myself unless I'm absolutely sure the person I'd be giving it to is Pro-Town.

This is a respectable stance, but not very realistic. You are unlikely to get that kind of assurity on day 1. Our best bet is to pick someone today, and make sure they are held accountable as much as possible. Odds on, unless we get consequtive scum lynches, the Mayor will probably change on a daily basis. Such is the way with Kingmaker style games.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Xtoxm, are you serious in believing that your role makes you a better choice for mayor than another townie?

And i'm happy to run Xtoxm upto a claim right now.

You want him to claim already? I don't think he should claim, his post looks vague enough as it is that it's not hurting or helping.

Yup. Any veteran will tell you that it's best to punish needless softclaiming like this. Xtoxm is experienced enough to know that his softclaim wouldnt get him to be Mayor, so i'm sure he expects this too.

Let's force him into a position early on.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I'm unlynchable.

lol, how does that make you a good mayor? surely that makes you the exact kind of mayor we DONT want i.e. the kind who cannot be held accountable to the town.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I'm unlynchable.

lol, how does that make you a good mayor? surely that makes you the exact kind of mayor we DONT want i.e. the kind who cannot be held accountable to the town.

BM

Agreed!

I'm all for testing this claim.

sounds good. What a team we make!

BM

[Battle Mage]

... a few posts popped up while typing my last one-

Does this mean that, if we try to lynch Xtoxm it will fail? Or will it fail with consequences? Is it worth trying out?

he probably needs to tell us that, from his role pm. The only consequence i can forsee is that we lose our lynch. But, the inconsistency here is glaring. If you were a Lynch-Immune townie, would you claim it immediately? That is, if the only way you could be killed is by NK, would you tell the scum that, at the earliest opportunity?

I dont think so.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Vote Gorrad

He just wants to waste todays lynch.

Lol, aww, why does he get the vote?
I'm totally more influential in getting you lynched than he is! xD

BM

[Battle Mage]

Lynch Unvote: zwet

Vote: Xtoxm

Up to five, if I've counted right (which is by no means a sure thing.) Well within a safe distance from lynch, anyway. It was an odd post, although we don't really know what he meant by that and it could just have been joking around. Has anyone played with Xtoxm before, and would have reason to push him into a claim based on his post in conjuction with that meta? Is that kind of play something anyone's seen before in Xtoxm?

I've played loads with him before, but sadly, none recently enough for me to have a decent grasp of his current play. I think he's welcome to use meta to defend himself if he wants to. Then we can assess from there.

Today is the best time to test this claim, as we will undoubtedly have to at some point.

BM

[Battle Mage]

unvote, Vote to Lynch: Xtoxm

I do not like that kind of play one bit.

I'm not shifting my mayor vote off myself unless I'm absolutely sure the person I'd be giving it to is Pro-Town.

This is a respectable stance, but not very realistic. You are unlikely to get that kind of assurity on day 1. Our best bet is to pick someone today, and make sure they are held accountable as much as possible. Odds on, unless we get consequtive scum lynches, the Mayor will probably change on a daily basis. Such is the way with Kingmaker style games.

BM

Well, I've never played a game with this mechanic, so I'll take your word for it. Personally, I prefer to keep my vote on me for as long as possible, since I'd rather like to use it well. Of course, you could all make it easy and vote me for mayor. :p

You dont have to take my word for it. You could, like, read the first page of any Kingmaker/Consulmaker/Presidentmaker (a personal favourite) game.
What you mean to say is, you want to keep your vote inactive, until you can gain brownie points by making a casting vote. Afraid to commit yourself?

BM

[Battle Mage]

unvote, Vote to Lynch: Xtoxm

I do not like that kind of play one bit.

I'm not shifting my mayor vote off myself unless I'm absolutely sure the person I'd be giving it to is Pro-Town.

This is a respectable stance, but not very realistic. You are unlikely to get that kind of assurity on day 1. Our best bet is to pick someone today, and make sure they are held accountable as much as possible. Odds on, unless we get consequtive scum lynches, the Mayor will probably change on a daily basis. Such is the way with Kingmaker style games.

BM

Well, I've never played a game with this mechanic, so I'll take your word for it. Personally, I prefer to keep my vote on me for as long as possible, since I'd rather like to use it well. Of course, you could all make it easy and vote me for mayor. :p

DI next.

agreed.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Holy sarnath batman.

@Dizzy- you realize that whoever is voted mayor will be the most likely lynch candidate if they start using the power in a way the town as a whole doesn't agree with, right?

not to mention theyll be a prime scapegoat if they end up being on a bad lynchwagon.

@Everyone- yeah, we're gonna have to test the unlynchable claim, but lets not end day one so quick, huh?

It wont end till we get a mayor anyway. Not sure if a short day is in our favour or not at this point. thoughts?

BM

[Battle Mage]

unvote, Vote to Lynch: Xtoxm

I do not like that kind of play one bit.

I'm not shifting my mayor vote off myself unless I'm absolutely sure the person I'd be giving it to is Pro-Town.

This is a respectable stance, but not very realistic. You are unlikely to get that kind of assurity on day 1. Our best bet is to pick someone today, and make sure they are held accountable as much as possible. Odds on, unless we get consequtive scum lynches, the Mayor will probably change on a daily basis. Such is the way with Kingmaker style games.

BM

Well, I've never played a game with this mechanic, so I'll take your word for it. Personally, I prefer to keep my vote on me for as long as possible, since I'd rather like to use it well. Of course, you could all make it easy and vote me for mayor. :p

You dont have to take my word for it. You could, like, read the first page of any Kingmaker/Consulmaker/Presidentmaker (a personal favourite) game.
What you mean to say is, you want to keep your vote inactive, until you can gain brownie points by making a casting vote. Afraid to commit yourself?

BM

No. I mean, I want to use my vote wisely. There's a difference.

can you please link me to a recent game of yours, where you were town please? Preferably one where you were one of the starting players.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Vote Xtoxm for mayor

When you fail at lynching me i'll be confirmed town, so i'm the best choice.

sadly, you wont. Its not completely unheard of for scum to have 1 shot unlynchability. In fact, i've used it as a role in a game i've modded, as it can give the scum a strong edge.

I'll only be content of your towniness, after 2 successful lynch survivals, at which point i can probably conclude that it isnt mod bastardery. But ofc, you dont have a problem with that, do you?

BM

[Battle Mage]

I don't buy X's claim. I've heard of Unlynchable as both a town and scum role anyway.

Quoted for Absolute Truth.

I bet he's actually a UNK SK. This is the perfect fake claim for that.

unvote;
Vote: Xtoxm for Mayor

WHY??

BM

[Battle Mage]

can you please link me to a recent game of yours, where you were town please? Preferably one where you were one of the starting players.

BM

No. All my recent games are either ongoing or were marathon games which wouldn't provide useful data due to the nature of the set-ups.

Lol, i dont mind if they are ongoing, as long as the mod doesnt have a problem. Most find it acceptable, as long as you are dead in that game.

If not, a sample of older games will have to suffice.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I'm unlynchable.

Can you explain if and how revealing this now is helpful to the town?

exactly. He's not town.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Vote Xtoxm for mayor

When you fail at lynching me i'll be confirmed town, so i'm the best choice.

sadly, you wont. Its not completely unheard of for scum to have 1 shot unlynchability. In fact, i've used it as a role in a game i've modded, as it can give the scum a strong edge.

I'll only be content of your towniness, after 2 successful lynch survivals, at which point i can probably conclude that it isnt mod bastardery. But ofc, you dont have a problem with that, do you?

BM

BM is Gorrad's scumbuddy...He wants to No Lynch twice.

Have you got any better ideas? You're the buffoon who put us into this situation. I hope for your sake you aren't town....

BM

[Battle Mage]

can you please link me to a recent game of yours, where you were town please? Preferably one where you were one of the starting players.

BM

No. All my recent games are either ongoing or were marathon games which wouldn't provide useful data due to the nature of the set-ups.

Lol, i dont mind if they are ongoing, as long as the mod doesnt have a problem. Most find it acceptable, as long as you are dead in that game.

If not, a sample of older games will have to suffice.

BM

I'm not dead in any of them. And as far I can tell, the only game I can find that I actually started, I was a Mafia RB, so... problem. I'll keep looking.

ok a link to that will be a start, thanks. There is a reason im asking this-not just sending you on a wild goose chase.

BM

[Battle Mage]

@BM: A feeling I get from my X as SK meta.

@Shadow: I certainly hope there aren't jesters but now that you mention it I bet there is a Vampire in this game. It fits the theme perfectly. I'm not familiar with the strategy so I don't know if they'd make themselves a target for a lynch or NK so early.

No, why did you vote him for Mayor? 0.o'

Ugh, im such a dumbass. Whats a vampire?

BM

[Battle Mage]

@Xtomx: I think claiming 'unlynchable' makes you the perfect scum target. If you're pro-town and also the mayor, what makes you think you'll survive tonight?

My vote stays.



And anyways, I agree with the general principal of voting for a player who smells kinda town for mayor, and keeping a very close eye on them for the rest of the game.

I know mayor

sounds

awesome ("Shit yeah, I'm the goddamned MAYOR!"), but those 'running' for mayor obviously have a rather high opinion of their scumhunting skills, or are scum. I will

Unvote for Mayor

until a candidate addresses the (actually serious) question: What would make you a good mayor?


@BM: I don't think a short day is

ever

in the town's favour. What would make you think otherwise?

A short day is in the town's favour, if a longer day will produce little further scumhunting (due to the lynch already being decided, and further suspicions being subject to that result) and revealing of protown power roles, as often happens in early games. Its also in the towns favour if the scum havent had time to settle into the game yet. Hopefully they might feel a little lost, although this is more of a long shot.

As far as a campaign goes, i think Shadow Knight summed it up pretty well. I'm probably the most active person here, so i wont lurk or anything, and you'll have plenty of time to judge me. I'm blatantly protown as anyone can see, and i'm pretty experienced. Also, im really easy to read, so putting me in the limelight should reap pretty rapid rewards as far as analysing me goes.

As far as i see it, those who want to be mayor arent necessarily arrogant or scum. They are just being selfish, and finding the simplest route to fulfill their win condition. If we all vote for ourselves, nobody will get anywhere.

BM

[Battle Mage]

ok a link to that will be a start, thanks. There is a reason im asking this-not just sending you on a wild goose chase.

BM

Best I can do with games I've started:

Newbie 586 in which Izzy plays the part of Mafia RB

Open 72 in which Izzy plays the part of a Mafia goon.

you didnt seem to have a problem random voting in either of those games. Is this a change of policy, or do you think random voting is a scumtell for you?

BM

[Battle Mage]

It's unfamiliarity with a game mechanic more than anything else. You may have noticed I made a random lynch vote in this game already. With my earliest experience of playing Mafia, I didn't do any random voting until I was confident enough to do it, but that wasn't on this site and I don't believe there are transcripts of those games anywhere.

voting for mayor is just like voting for scum, except u vote for the most town person. But random voting can help you put some feelers out, and assess who likes who. Mayor voting can be a useful scumhunting tool aswell, you see?

BM

[Battle Mage]

[No, why did you vote him for Mayor? 0.o'

Ugh, im such a dumbass. Whats a vampire?

1. If we want to lynch X today or test the theory that it just won't work (I don't think Unlynchables necessarily have to force a no-lynch if he is telling the truth as town or scum unlynchable), we need to have a mayor. If he doesn't die and is still mayor then he'll be a prime night kill target anyway (I'm guessing there are multiple killing factions because most large games have them).

true, but itll make it harder for us to lynch him tomorrow. Something i think is looking more likely atm.

Also I'm probably not the best mayor candidate. I like to think I'm pro-town when I'm town but I've been wrong about who's scum alot of times. In fact, that's my meta as town.

lol

BM

[Battle Mage]

We have to have a mayor.

I've been thinking about Xtomx's claim, and I think it's like a miller role, which should be claimed on Day 1. I think lynching him

just to test his truthfulness

is a bad idea. It's great we have this information, and if he looking like a good lynch candidate, then we lynch him; if he's not, we don't. There is nothing inherently scummy about the ability, and sacrificing a lynch shouldn't be an option.

There may not be anything inherently scummy about the ability, but there is something inherently scummy about the manner in which he claimed it. If he was town, i see no motive for him to claim such a powerful ability in the early stages of the game, because it just makes him a target. On the other hand, if he is scum, there is no downside to him claiming early, because presumably he cannot be NKed, or is less likely to be. And this is all assuming his claim is true. He could just be a generic goon, who wants to avoid being lynched.

BM

BM

[Battle Mage]

Actually I think if X is scum and has partners, him being mayor is a bad idea even if he does die since he can select the next mayor.

unvote Xtoxm for Mayor
Vote: Battle Mage for Mayor

he seems townish so far

this is a good point. Although it would be interesting to see if he'd implicate a scumbuddy or not.

BM

[Battle Mage]

For the record, here are the breakups by gender and by age:

Male players

dingoatemybaby (Male, 38)
MikeSC6 (Male, 19)
Xtoxm (Male, 18)
zwetschenwasser (Male, 1)
Yosarian2 (Male, 28)
Jahudo (Male, 73)
Barrylocke (Male, 19)
Dr Pepper (Male, 17)
Shadow Knight (Male, 29)
Percy (Male, 27)
Firestarter (Male, 32)
Mufasa (Male, 16)
ZONEACE (Male, 21)

Female players

The Fonz (Female, 11)
DizzyIzzyB13 (Female, 17)
Shinnen_no_Me (Female, 19)
knox (Female, 18)
Gorrad (Female, 42)
Juls (Female, 29)
Ztife (Female, 24)
Battle Mage (Female, 19)

Age in ascending order

zwetschenwasser (Male, 1)
The Fonz (Female, 11)
Mufasa (Male, 16)
DizzyIzzyB13 (Female, 17)
Dr Pepper (Male, 17)
Xtoxm (Male, 18)
knox (Female, 18)
Barrylocke (Male, 19)
Battle Mage (Female, 19)
MikeSC6 (Male, 19)
Shinnen_no_Me (Female, 19)
ZONEACE (Male, 21)
Ztife (Female, 24)
Percy (Male, 27)
Yosarian2 (Male, 28)
Shadow Knight (Male, 29)
Juls (Female, 29)
Firestarter (Male, 32)
dingoatemybaby (Male, 38)
Gorrad (Female, 42)
Jahudo (Male, 73)


No idea if this will prove useful, but good for reference later maybe?

Yeh, thats a very good idea actually. Must be some sort of reason for them...

As far as i see it, those who want to be mayor arent necessarily arrogant or scum. They are just being selfish, and finding the simplest route to fulfill their win condition. If we all vote for ourselves, nobody will get anywhere.

...and yet you want to be mayor?

I think those who want to be mayor should be motivated by a

lack

of selfishness - understanding that they are submitting themselves to greater scrutiny for the benefit of the town. Yeah, your vote counts more, but if you're wrong about a vote, it will be a

lot

harder to talk yourself out of getting lynched in retribution. Anyone who is wanting the power to throw in another vote for selfish reasons is dangerous

at best

.

Lol, calm down! xD
When i say people voting themselves for mayor are being selfish, i mean they are looking no further than the tip of their nose for a candidate. It's a logical approach:- I know im town, therefore if i am mayor, at the very least, ill be TRYING to find scum.
My point was, this policy doesnt work for everyone-because if nobody looks to another candidate, scum will inevitably win (because they can trust each other).
I think you'll find i'm quite aware of the fact that the mayor will be under the spotlight, but i think you may be overstating what the role of Mayor actually is. At the moment, the mayor is weak. A double vote with 11 to lynch, is not a major difference maker. It's much later in the game that this becomes a pertinent issue. I've already stated that im well familiar with the Kingmaker game structure.

I think a lot of people are voting Battlemage simply because he posts a lot, and that's pretty dumb. A large post count is not indicative of anything I've outlined.

Why do you think i would be a bad mayor?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Holy 24 hour multi page explosion Batman.

Lynch Vote Xtoxm

Something about Xtoxm's claim feels very troublesome to me. Its like he threw a giant pile of gambit out there and early in day one to boot. Even if we test his claim, it does not prove his alignment. Id would be more than happy calling his bluff.

I do not like the idea of Battlemage for major right now. He is trying to hard for my tastes. Id rather not see him end of as major today.

That's a relief, because that military position isnt vacant. xD

Im not sure what you mean by trying too hard. I always participate at this frequency in early games, regardless of the prospect of immediately gaining something. If anyone was trying too hard, i'd say it was Percy, in that his aspirations for a mayor seem very vague and woolly to me. More a propaganda exercise than something realistic and practical.

BM

[Battle Mage]

So let's say we've got a couple of middling wagons, a couple of people making cases... everyone's supposed to drop their cases and just vote Xtoxm?

(shrug) If there's a good case on someone, if I'm pretty convinced that they're scum, I'd be in favor of lynching them instead; I'm always pragmatic about such things.

For the most part, though, I think lynching Xtoxm today has a much better risk/reward payoff then most day 1 lynches do.

I concur.

BM

[Battle Mage]

No. I mean, I want to use my vote wisely. There's a difference.

Translation: I want to leave as little of a paper trail as possible.

No. It means exactly what I said. Judicious use of the vote isn't necessarily a bad thing anyway. There's far less obfuscation involved than jumping from place to place.

It's unfamiliarity with a game mechanic more than anything else. You may have noticed I made a random lynch vote in this game already. With my earliest experience of playing Mafia, I didn't do any random voting until I was confident enough to do it, but that wasn't on this site and I don't believe there are transcripts of those games anywhere.

Looks like an excuse to avoid contributing to me.

Looks like you need to get your eyes tested, then. Conservative play to avoid making mistake s with unfamiliar game mechanics does not equal unwilligness to contribute.

I agree with Fonz here. Whilst it doesnt necessarily mean you arent going to contribute, your cautious attitude definitely stinks of not wanting to be held accountable for your votes, and to remain inconspicuous.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Does not compute, Yos.

If he's not unlynchable, there's no pressing need to lynch him now.

If he is, it's a complete waste.

If he's not unlynchable, then lynching him probably nails us a scum; like I said, his meta makes me worry that there's a chance that he's lying town, but if he's lying about his role I still think we have to assume that would make him more likely scum then town. Lynching a liar is usually a good thing.

Always a good thing. But I've no particular reason to believe he's lying; and if he isn't, it's a wasted lynch. Sure, confirming the role is useful; someone's alignment is more so. I'd rather wait and see if he is taken out at night.

Reason he could be lying: He could be scum, who didnt want to be run up...

BM

[Battle Mage]

claiming unlynchable is a stupid play for a jester, because it means if they arent lynched Day 1, they are likely to be NKed.

BM

[Battle Mage]

My vote for myself is because I don't fear a lynch, and for now it is a place holder as I am transiting into the new game and wrapping up the old game.

Ok, but there's a fair amount of stuff that's happened already in this game, especally xtoxm's claim and the various reactions to it, and I'd be interested to hear what you think about it all, as soon as possible.

Also, is there any specific reason you're voting Fonz for mayor?

Mufasa - Do you think early self-voting is a scumtell? or a towntell?

BM

[Battle Mage]

@ Mufasa: I suggest you stop voting yourself. It looks pretty suspicious and I consider it being scummy.

why is him revealing himself as potential scum, a bad thing? why are you trying to discourage him?

At this point, I feel comfortable enough to

Major Vote The Fonz

. I have a semi meta on him and its good enough to consider him for major day one.

Also, jester/vampire speculation should stop.

Facepalm. Fonz, if you play Major, can i play Minor? lmao

Also,

Claim: Jester

BM

[Battle Mage]

This looks like I'm defending Xtomx, which is really not where I want to be. I just think that the claim had to come out, and I'm glad it came out now, and we should be looking at his playstyle rather than policy lynching him based on his claim.

I suggest you start contributing. You'll get my vote in 48 hours if you don't start scumhunting and analysing like a motherfucker.

I have an irresistable urge to lynch you right now.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Also,

Claim: Jester

BM

*facepalm*

*Cracks up*

Confirm Vote for Lynch: Xtoxm

rofl

BM

[Battle Mage]

Guys. I want everyone to post their current opinion on the following question, be it based on gut, meta, whatever.

Do you feel that Xtoxm is lying to us?

I think Xtoxm likes to gambit. I have seen him do it as scum and town. I also think he likes to claim early. I have seen him do it as both scum and town. So, do I think he is lying about being unlynchable? No. Do I think he is giving us the whole story? No.

I'm intrigued. what else do you think he could be hiding about his role?

BM

[Battle Mage]

elect: Battle Mage or Shadow Knight

Xtoxm: Lynch

BM

[Battle Mage]

How about this. Why don't we all list our top four methods for deciding how to vote for mayor and our top four method for deciding how to vote for a lynch. The top three from each will then go into a round robin style voting contest, where the winner of each round will be determined by a method to be determined through an three day elimination challenge. The winner of the round robin contest will be validated by two thirds of the most experienced players and a simple majority of less experienced players. If validated, people can then use these methods to decide who and how they are going to vote for. I propose we vote on my proposal.

Or, just for kicks, we could just

Vote for Mayor

for whoever we want to be mayor and

Vote:

for whoever we want to lynch.

lmfao. xD
This actually brought tears to my eyes. I vote Yes on the first proposal. xD

BM

[Battle Mage]

@ Battlemage: That jester claim does not look good for you. Especially after multiple people asked for the speculation to stop. Scum often use joking to avoid providing content.

If Battlemage was lurking and had only made a joke post, I'd agree that it would indicate scum. But we've had plenty of activity in addition to this from Battlemage.

The first part of the post sounds like a threat, on the grounds my claim was serious.

Will catch up properly later.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Unvote to Lynch

Im really confused. from this page, it looks like Xtoxm's replacement is claiming jester, and Yos just put him at -1. wtf??

BM

[Battle Mage]

My role would be perfect for mayor.

does this make sense in the context of a Jester? Im not sure Xtoxm is that smart to think that this would get him strung up...

BM

[Battle Mage]

Unvote to Lynch

Im really confused. from this page, it looks like Xtoxm's replacement is claiming jester, and Yos just put him at -1. wtf??

BM

EBWOP: By 'this page' i meant page 20, which i somehow concluded was the last page...

BM

[Battle Mage]

... a few posts popped up while typing my last one-

Does this mean that, if we try to lynch Xtoxm it will fail? Or will it fail with consequences? Is it worth trying out?

Yes, it will fail. It will be the same as No Lynch.

if i was Xtoxm-jester, id have claimed that lynching me would fail, and all votes would be reset, or something similar.

BM

[Battle Mage]

@BM- why not, he committed every *other* action that would get him lynched...

hmm, i just dont know if i believe this jester claim. still reading. would Haschel use the name "village idiot"? Yos?

BM

[Battle Mage]

So we're agreed on the necessity for his death. We just need to agree on the method. I don't want to lynch him because I think the scum will kill him for us. I'd rather they NK him than a townie. If that also happens to negate his win condition then, yay, bonus.

since when did the Mafia do our bidding?

BM

[Battle Mage]

You are not Xtoxm. You are a master jester, as seen by your title. Xt is not.

exactly. he just isnt trying hard enough for a novice who just wants to get lynched. If he's a Jester, he's got damn lucky, because he doesnt seem to conciously want to be lynched.

BM

[Battle Mage]

@Gorrad- stop thinking in terms of "we lynch anti-town" and start thinking in terms of "we don't give anti-town roles what they want." Under normal circumstances, the former would be correct, but when you have an anti-town role that wants something *other/more* than survival, you make sure they do not get what they want. If the town has a vig, letting him/her kill millar is an *awesome* way for him to let his presence be known and later confirmed without risking a townie. Under normal circumstances, said vig would have to claim and then we have to leave him/her alive for another night so they can prove themselves. If we let the vig kill millar we have the win-win situation of not giving him a win and getting a vig confirm later. The only negative is if we have a Serial Killer who makes the kill and then claims vig later, in which case, we need to pray we *do* have a vig who will either already be dead (meaning the SK is toast) or can counter claim (meaning the SK is toast). Please note the SK scenario is pure conjecture, but just used to illustrate a benefit of having millar night killed instead of lynched.

You've already started the inevitable discussion and argument that'll happen if we let him go 'till night. Lynching him does not harm us at all. Lynching people against against the interests of the town is good for town. Even if he is a jester, so what? So he gets to win as well as town when we find scum? Is that really such a problem?

Lynching a Jester is NOT good for the town. We dont want a Jester to win. He clearly isnt aligned with the town, but if lynching him means the Jester wins, we pretty much suck. Some people dont believe a Jester win counts for anything in the grand scheme of things.

I'm not one of those people. Jesters = serious business.

BM

[Battle Mage]

pah, ill read later.

Unvote For Mayor

I dont support Yos as mayor, for reasons already stated by others. Same applies, to a lesser degree, to Fonz.

Vote: Shadow Knight for Mayor

BM

[Battle Mage]

I would say give it to

Juls

Yosa

,

or Fonz

.

lol. im paranoid, k?

C'mon buddy, whats with the BM-hate?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Perhaps, but it's worth pursuing later.

actually, i really dont think it is. xD

FoS: Zwet

BM

[Battle Mage]

Tbh, I'd be pretty cool with Juls.

That's lovely. I hope you name your first born after me...

BM

[Battle Mage]

Battle Mage Fonzarelli. Hmmmm.

If ever there was a child born who was made to play Mafia... xDDD

BM

[Battle Mage]

Perhaps, but it's worth pursuing later.

actually, i really dont think it is. xD

FoS: Zwet

BM

Your opinion on something doesn't make mine a scumtell.

Lol, you are openly stating that you intend to attack Yos later, with something that clearly has no value. That is scummy. If you genuinely believed you had something, you'd raise it now, rather than wait for tomorrow. I'm merely nipping it in the bud now.

BM

[Battle Mage]

My vote for myself is because I don't fear a lynch, and for now it is a place holder as I am transiting into the new game and wrapping up the old game.

rofl. Looking at his posts in isolation, i dont like this one much. Ugetme?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Yos blatantly rolefished last page, and noone noticed.

"Tell me your role right now or die" is not "rolefishing", zwet.

I was actually trying to find a reason to NOT lynch Xtoxm/Millar. Millar completly failed to give me one, so I voted him.

actually, it kinda is. Setting off a mine underwater, and collecting the fish that wind up on the land, is still technically fishing.

The thing is, your rolefishing wasnt scummy, because we already knew pretty much everything about Xtoxm's role that we were going to.

BM

[Battle Mage]

It doesn't matter any more. I hammered him.

You realize it dosn't work like that, right? He's not actually "hammered" until we have both a lynch and a mayor; until then the day does not end.

really? i thought as soon as we had a majority for lynch, that was decided, and then we just had to get a majority for mayor...

BM

[Battle Mage]

I'm actually somewhat suspicious of the way Zwet has been acting in the last few pages. He defends Xtoxm hardcore for much of the day, attacks me for asking him to claim...then tries to hammer him not long afterwards? All while trying to set it up so I'll look bad for "rolefishing" if Xtoxm/Millar comes up town? What, exactally, were you trying to accomplish with that series of actions, Zwet?

you're making this too complicated. Just FoS him and be done with it.

I still dont support Yos-Mayor.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Vote: Yosarian2

I'm gonna ride the WIFOM express. In one of my recent games, the mod noted how valuable an asset Yos was to the town, and how he would've been able to turn things around if he'd been around. In short, my hypothesis is that experienced players would have killed Yos2 already, based on his reputation. Those who arent aware of his reputation, are bound to kill a townie with a double vote in order to give themselves the chance of getting it themselves. They are killing discernibly popular players. First, Shadow Knight, then The Fonz, both of whom were candidates for the double-vote on Day 1.

This is far from logically foolproof, but my gut tells me for these reasons, that Yos is the play today. If this wagon isnt as clear-cut as it ought to be, ill do a full reread of the game. I was reading as we went through, but ive got exams, and my memory is shot atm

BM

[Battle Mage]

I think BM's post shows why scum might want Yos alive at this point - because of the WIFOMy stuff that they could used when building a case against him as a mslynch to save one of their own later.

I dont see people jumping at the chance to push a case on Yos today. The only person who did so, was me. If you want to consider it a scumtell, fair enough, but it's only scummy on the proviso that Yos is town.

Assuming im town, your logic is dead in the water.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I think BM's post shows why scum might want Yos alive at this point - because of the WIFOMy stuff that they could used when building a case against him as a mslynch to save one of their own later.

I dont see people jumping at the chance to push a case on Yos today. The only person who did so, was me. If you want to consider it a scumtell, fair enough, but it's only scummy on the proviso that Yos is town.

Assuming im town, your logic is dead in the water.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I think BM's post shows why scum might want Yos alive at this point - because of the WIFOMy stuff that they could used when building a case against him as a mslynch to save one of their own later.

I dont see people jumping at the chance to push a case on Yos today. The only person who did so, was me. If you want to consider it a scumtell, fair enough, but it's only scummy on the proviso that Yos is town.

Assuming im town, your logic is dead in the water.

BM

[Battle Mage]

oh darn....

Mod, please feel free to delete any 2 of the above post. Preferably not all 3.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I would say your case is

crap

wifom, but you already admitted it.

RULE BREACH! RULE BREACH! lol

Battle Mage is just highlighting this for the benefit of the

Mod

.

BM

[Battle Mage]

In short, my hypothesis is that experienced players would have killed Yos2 already, based on his reputation. Those who arent aware of his reputation, are bound to kill a townie with a double vote in order to give themselves the chance of getting it themselves.

As to your first sentance; take a look at, say, my last 5 or 6 games as town. How many of them was I nightkilled by the scum on night 1 or night 2? I think the answer is 1; the only game that's at all recent where I was town and was nightkilled by the scum night 1 or night 2 was Mafia Lolwat, and that was just because I was attacking both members of the mafia that day.

Ok, it's time for me come clean. I'm afraid...i'm not the superfan you might have thought i was.
If you could link me to those games, i'll gladly check them out.

You really can't say "Yos being alive day 3 is a scumtell", because I really don't get nightkilled by scum much more often then random.

maybe you're right. But given the player list, and the mechanic of the game, i can see that most mafia combinations here would have killed you already. Especially as you aren't really coming across as scummy. You aren't what id consider 'lynchable' based on your actual play. Likewise, you havent even been wagonning like crazy, which would be a possible incentive for mafia to keep you alive.

Yeh, there's no case to lynch you that doesnt include a logical fallacy, but every gut instinct in me is saying that you should be lynched today. Sorry.

As for your second part; meh. If scum had wanted one of their own to be mayor, they could have done it day 1.

I guess if you consider where my vote is, you'll recognise that my hypothesis is that scum DID do this Day 1.

I mean, I didn't even vote for MYSELF, I really didn't even especally want to be mayor this game, it just kind of happened. If the scum had wanted to gently nudge the town into electing one of their own mayor on day 1, they could have. They didn't, probably because they don't want to be anywhere near as high profile as that.

It's ok, i can see why you wouldnt wanna be mayor. The longevity of such a post in early game is not looking great. Tbh, i think you're doing a pretty good job. But, let's face it, if you were town, you'd be happy to be mayor for one simple reason-it means that:

A. Town has control of the double vote.
B. You get to choose a successor in the event of your death, so you can use your intuition to keep the mayorship out of the hands of scum.

I think half-decent scum are far less likely to WANT to be mayor, because survival to endgame is virtually impossible, and it thrusts them into the limelight early on. More importantly, it means they have to choose a successor, and they have to either concede the mayorship to a townie, or implicate another scumbuddy, starting the cycle again.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Of course I know I'm not. But even then, you'll tell me I'm lying and vote me anyways.

It's one of those question without an answer. I say yes you vote me, I say know you scream lies and vote me.

But no, I swear I'm not.

Oh noes, I can't swear, no swearing for the day XD

FoS: Dramonic

what a kerfuffle!
If Yos wasnt the play today, i'd be on your case too. You seem pretty paranoid for a fresh-face...

BM

[Battle Mage]

I don't think Yos is acting scummy so I see no point in lynching him. People have different ideas about who to kill when they are scum.

I feel this is a rather off-hand response. Yos is an excellent player, and i dont expect him to commit glaring scumtells when he is mafia. Maybe this comes under "too townie to be town"? *shrug*

Also, another thing im thinking is, bussing is unlikely to be prevalent in this game. If Yos was scum, what would his team mates do? I dont see them all hopping on the wagon, given that their team would then either lose the mayorship, or have another player implicated.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I feel this is a rather off-hand response. Yos is an excellent player, and i dont expect him to commit glaring scumtells when he is mafia. Maybe this comes under "too townie to be town"? *shrug*

No, I just feel that Yos is townish based on his activity day 2. I think he was one of the few people to critically analyze what was going on between dingo and pepper, where scum wouldn't have really cared which one died (we know that now).

Also, another thing im thinking is, bussing is unlikely to be prevalent in this game. If Yos was scum, what would his team mates do? I dont see them all hopping on the wagon, given that their team would then either lose the mayorship, or have another player implicated.

Well, if a scum mayor is killed I would assume someone on his wagon is much more likely to be the next mayor, as opposed to someone not on his wagon.

I think it's too early to tell if we have one main scum faction or two, and how many third party scum we have. These variables might affect how much scum think they can get by with bussing. If they have a big enough group but with weak powers, they are probably more likely to bus.

No, i still cant see a solo scumgroup bussing. And i dont understand your first point about the scum mayor-please explain?

BM

[Battle Mage]

What would happen if everybody swore today?

And i dont understand your first point about the scum mayor-please explain?

If Yos were to be lynched and flip scum, I think we would look for his scumbuddies among the people that didn't lynch him. We would also need to elect a new mayor before we lynched someone, so someone that did lynch him would get townie points.

Ah i see what you mean now. You've misread the rules though, methinks. We dont elect the new mayor- the old mayor chooses the new mayor. So in this scenario, Dead-Yos-Scum would have to choose a successor.

BM

[Battle Mage]

WAAAAA I lost my vote... You are scum, BM.

Is BM really the scummiest person in this situation? I would think that given all the talk D1 of two votes possibly placing greater scrutiny on scum, wouldn't it follow that a player with no vote will experience less scrutiny?

Therefore, any player who deprives themselves of their own vote, regardless of whether or not it looks like an accident, is looking pretty scummy to me. It just seems like an excuse to lurk and shirk (hey, that's kind of catchy) responsibility for a day.

I call BS. You're really stretching it here, NabNab.

Maybe you're right. Calling Zwet out at this point is premature; he has niether lurked nor shirked, but I think that this is definitely a potential problem.

In other words, the last thing I want to hear today is "I can't [X] because I lost my vote" (when X =/= hammer).

I agree with Gorrad. I dont think Zwet lost his vote deliberately, nor do i think scum would bother doing so, in order to cast themselves out of the limelight. A guy with no vote, will hopefully be just as conspicuous as a guy with 2. Unless we reach a stage where the majority lose their votes. Lol

Furthermore, i can see why Zwet-town would consider me scummy for drawing attention to his rule-breach. It isn't a scumtell, but if i lost my vote in that manner, i expect i'd feel paranoid/vindictive.

BM

[Battle Mage]

In short, my hypothesis is that experienced players would have killed Yos2 already, based on his reputation. Those who arent aware of his reputation, are bound to kill a townie with a double vote in order to give themselves the chance of getting it themselves.

As to your first sentance; take a look at, say, my last 5 or 6 games as town. How many of them was I nightkilled by the scum on night 1 or night 2? I think the answer is 1; the only game that's at all recent where I was town and was nightkilled by the scum night 1 or night 2 was Mafia Lolwat, and that was just because I was attacking both members of the mafia that day.

Ok, it's time for me come clean. I'm afraid...i'm not the superfan you might have thought i was.
If you could link me to those games, i'll gladly check them out.

Sure, let me check. (uses search function).

As far as I remember, this, mafiaLolwat is the only recent game where I, as town, was scumkilled early on.

viewtopic.php?t=10205&highlight=

In that game, the reason i was killed by the scum night 2 was because on day 2 I managed to call and attack out both members of the scum team at the same time (although I mistakenly thought one was the cult leader, which didn't help since I was trying to lynch him anyway. )

The two games I was in as town before that were mini 732 viewtopic.php?t=10268&start=0 and mini 728 viewtopic.php?t=10198&start=0. In both of those games, I was pro-town, and still survived the entire game, winning while still alive in endgame both times. (Granted, in mini 732, half the reason I survived was badly absuing the smalltown game mechanics. )

Interesting. 728 highlights my point quite nicely i feel. True, you were not killed in the game, but the game was FULL of veterans. It's no great insult not to be killed when almost the entire playerlist are IC's, and many pretty much household names.

With 732, this isnt so much the case, although i'd say the playerlist there has a greater ratio of 'infamous' players than this game. I'd be interested to hear thoughts from

Gorrad

, as he was scum in that game, and might be able to clarify why Yos was not killed.

Before that, in mini 720, I was lynched, not nightkilled. viewtopic.php?t=10086&highlight=yosarian2

will look at this in a sec, thanks.

As far as I remember, to go back to the last time before lolwat when I was killed by scum early on, you have to go all the way back to 2008 an US Election mafia; and the only reason I was killed in THAT game was because I delibratly hinted at a pro-town power role in order to draw a scum kill, becuase I had the most useless pro-town role ever and so wanted the scum to kill me rather then someone useful. (I couldn't even vote for a lynch, I could only vote no-lynch. )

ACTUALLY, as the guy who killed you, i'm afraid i'll have to correct you here. The reason we killed you in that game was (admittedly my buddy's choice) because you are an infamously good player, and KoC was terrified of you as a scumhunter. Which, to be quite frank, is one of the main reasons behind my stance on you here.

So, yeah. I really don't think I'm much more likely to draw a nightkill then most people when I'm pro-town. I get hit with the "Yos is still alive, so he must be scum!" argument ALL the bloody TIME, but it really is not at all true; I make all the way to endgame pretty often as town, in fact.

Yeh, i can see how that would be a pain. One question-if you get attacked under this argument "all the time" how come you often manage to survive to endgame? Clearly this cant be as big an issue as you suggest.

maybe you're right. But given the player list, and the mechanic of the game, i can see that most mafia combinations here would have killed you already. Especially as you aren't really coming across as scummy. You aren't what id consider 'lynchable' based on your actual play. Likewise, you havent even been wagonning like crazy, which would be a possible incentive for mafia to keep you alive.

Well, you know, if that is all true, mafia often avoid "the most obvious target" because that person is often doc protected. Docs are pretty common in warewolf games, too. (Well, they're usually called herbalists or healers here, but same thing.)

Hmm, valid point.

I mean, I didn't even vote for MYSELF,

I really didn't even especally want to be mayor this game

, it just kind of happened. If the scum had wanted to gently nudge the town into electing one of their own mayor on day 1, they could have. They didn't, probably because they don't want to be anywhere near as high profile as that.

It's ok, i can see why you wouldnt wanna be mayor. The longevity of such a post in early game is not looking great. Tbh, i think you're doing a pretty good job. But, let's face it, if you were town, you'd be happy to be mayor for one simple reason-it means that:

A. Town has control of the double vote.
B. You get to choose a successor in the event of your death, so you can use your intuition to keep the mayorship out of the hands of scum.

(nods) Right. And

I was never opposed to the idea of being mayor

, for that very reason, as I made clear day 1. Still; I decided not to really go for it this game, and was actually pushing pretty hard for Fonz (who looked pretty obv town to me) to get the mayorship instead.

What was the story with 24 Mafia? You said Fonz didnt want you to be mayor because of that. Also, i must hasten to highlight in

ORANGE

the contradiction here. Your story seems to have changed.

I think half-decent scum are far less likely to WANT to be mayor, because survival to endgame is virtually impossible, and it thrusts them into the limelight early on. More importantly, it means they have to choose a successor, and they have to either concede the mayorship to a townie, or implicate another scumbuddy, starting the cycle again.

BM

Heh. My usual habit is to actually go after stuff like mayorships hard no matter what my alignment. I just kind of figured that after what I did in 24 mafia, doing so this game would make people freak out (see Fonz's reaction to even the idea I might become mayor day 1 of this game for an example of this, heh), so I was planning on just trying to make sure someone else who looked pro-town to me got it. I was actually kind of bemused to see that I ended up with it anyway, lol.

I forgot what bemused meant... :'(

Anyway, i do hope that given you fit my conclusions pretty well, you can see why i'm feeling fairly ok with my vote on you atm.
I dont think town-Yos would be so scared of the limelight.

Also, i might live to regret this, but,

Mod

:

ALL the bloody TIME

BM

[Battle Mage]

Yos wasn't killed because we wanted to kill danchao more than him, and after that I was stuck in a situation where I pretty much could not NK without outting myself.

so you're saying you effectively could only make 1 NK before you were the last man in your scumteam, and were unable to make your top choice NK?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Well, you know, if that is all true, mafia often avoid "the most obvious target" because that person is often doc protected. Docs are pretty common in warewolf games, too. (Well, they're usually called herbalists or healers here, but same thing.)

Hmm, valid point.

(nods) Especally since scum killed off the "Second to most obvioust target",

Fonz was killed Night 2. Hence, by your argument, he was the "3rd to most obvious target".

Fonz, who is also a very experenced player, a very effective scumhunter,

These sound like pretty good reasons to bump him off.

and who basically everyone thought was pro-town on day 1.

This is a ridiculous assertion to make. Firstly, Fonz was killed Night 2. Secondly, i dont recall any declarations of Fonz being defo town on Day 1. And i dont think anyone had grounds to say for sure that anyone was town at that early stage.

Of course, now that you've made this argument, scum might keep me alive in order to support your "Yos isn't dead so he must be scum" argument. So, thanks, you may have just saved my life.

It's ok, we'll call it quits if you win the game for the town at endgame.

What was the story with 24 Mafia? You said Fonz didnt want you to be mayor because of that.

Yeah. This was what Fonz said about me becoming mayor:

Because, if he's town, he doesn't need the extra vote to be influential, and you're just painting a big target on his back.

If he's scum: see 24 mafia.

In 24 mafia, I, as scum, managed to get the town to elect me "Director of CTU" on day 1, and then abused the hell out of the powers that came with that office while leading the town. That was the game I won the "best manipulator" award for.

And i'd assume that this is why you couldnt afford to be seen to push for the Mayorship here-because any attempt to do so would have been called out by Fonz, who you felt was "very protown".

Also, i must hasten to highlight in

ORANGE

the contradiction here. Your story seems to have changed.

It really didn't.

This is what I said day 1:

Yos, can I ask you this... would you LIKE to be mayor?

(shrug) I'd vote myself, just on the general "I know I'm town" principle, but of course if we all do that we get nowhere.

That being said; meh, I wouldn't mind being mayor, but it dosn't really matter. I don't expect it would affect my play much.

I was never opposed to becoming mayor, but I didn't activly persue it either, mostly because I really didn't expect to become mayor in any case.

Why wouldnt you expect to become mayor?

I was not opposed to becoming mayor, in order to avoid keeping it out of scum hands, but I wasn't terribly excited about it.

Besides, if I was scum, why would I have tried so hard to get a very smart pro-town person (Fonz) elected mayor?

1. Fonz was clearly wary of you. It made a good deal of sense to keep him on side. It stinks of buddying.
2. Obviously, after Mafia 24, you wanted to play in the exact opposite way in order to look protown. That means not trying at all hard to get elected, and indeed, fighting hard to get someone ELSE elected.
3. Fonz was far from confirmed town, much as it might be convenient for you to say otherwise. He was just as lynchable as you or I.

Also, i might live to regret this, but,

Mod

:

ALL the bloody TIME

BM

Lol. Nice try, but unless the mod is British, I'm not worried.

You've lost me. Is that not considered a profanity outside of the UK?

BM

[Battle Mage]

and who basically everyone thought was pro-town on day 1.

This is a ridiculous assertion to make. Firstly, Fonz was killed Night 2. Secondly, i dont recall any declarations of Fonz being defo town on Day 1. And i dont think anyone had grounds to say for sure that anyone was town at that early stage.

Eh? I said that everyone thought Fonz looks pro-town day 1, not that they had grounds to know for sure.

Speaking personally, i dont recall thinking anyone looked protown on Day 1, with the exception of 1 guy, whose name i forgot (he got killed Night 1). I think this is very weak.

What was the story with 24 Mafia? You said Fonz didnt want you to be mayor because of that.

Yeah. This was what Fonz said about me becoming mayor:

Because, if he's town, he doesn't need the extra vote to be influential, and you're just painting a big target on his back.

If he's scum: see 24 mafia.

In 24 mafia, I, as scum, managed to get the town to elect me "Director of CTU" on day 1, and then abused the hell out of the powers that came with that office while leading the town. That was the game I won the "best manipulator" award for.

And i'd assume that this is why you couldnt afford to be seen to push for the Mayorship here-because any attempt to do so would have been called out by Fonz, who you felt was "very protown".

(nods) By Fonz and by anyone else who saw me in 24 mafia, yeah. After that game, I would kind of expect a giant red flag to go up if people saw me trying to get elected on day 1, so I figured it wouldn't be productive to try for it.

This is exactly what i mean when i say you are afraid of the limelight.

I was not opposed to becoming mayor, in order to avoid keeping it out of scum hands, but I wasn't terribly excited about it.

Besides, if I was scum, why would I have tried so hard to get a very smart pro-town person (Fonz) elected mayor?

1. Fonz was clearly wary of you. It made a good deal of sense to keep him on side. It stinks of buddying.
2. Obviously, after Mafia 24, you wanted to play in the exact opposite way in order to look protown. That means not trying at all hard to get elected, and indeed, fighting hard to get someone ELSE elected.
3. Fonz was far from confirmed town, much as it might be convenient for you to say otherwise. He was just as lynchable as you or I.

Eh. He wasn't confirmed town, but I can't imagine he looked very lynchable, especally on day 1; I can't recall anyone offhand being suspicious of him.

I'm assuming thats why you killed him. But i think you rather overestimated his individual clout in the game.

Anyway, if I was scum, the last thing I would want to do would be to put the mayorship into the hands of someone who was both a good scumhunter, who looked pro-town, and who is very smart and very unlikely to give the mayorship to a scum if he died.

I kind of see what you mean by the buddying thing, but, meh. Fonz is too smart and too carefulv to easily manipulate with that kind of thing.

Apparently not. After the preliminary stages, he seemed pretty hooked by your facade. It really concerns me how highly you rate Fonz's play. I dont think anyone here is questionning that he is a good player, but you seem to have attributed him God-status. Tbh, last time i was scum in a game with Fonz, he declared me certain town. Obviously his presence perturbed you greatly, and now we find that he is dead, along with 1 of the other main candidates for mayorship on Day 1. You are out on a limb here.

Also, i might live to regret this, but,

Mod

:

ALL the bloody TIME

BM

Lol. Nice try, but unless the mod is British, I'm not worried.

You've lost me. Is that not considered a profanity outside of the UK?

BM

Nope, it's not. It's not a word that would be censored on American telivision, for example.

It wouldnt be censored on British television either, but it doesnt mean it isnt considered a profanity. It's in the same kinda league as Zwet's comment. It's worse than 'dang' anyway.

No, it's not. But should that matter? I mean, would it make a difference if someone swore in German or French?

Well, I was speaking in the language "American English", and in the language I was speaking, it is not a swear word.

Anyway, why are people trying so hard to remove my vote here?

American English? lmao
Izzy is right. Not everyone here speaks "American English" as their first language. Some of us don't speak it at all! But that doesnt mean if we swear in "American English" that we wouldnt be punished.

I'd suspect the reason people are trying to remove your vote is one of the following:

1. They dont trust you with a double vote, on a day where that could become critically important.
2. They want to uphold the rules of the game, which you seem to have breached.

I've gotta say, i come under both, but mainly the former. I suspect Izzy is more with the latter, but it's all good.

BM

[Battle Mage]

BM is the one trying to get everyone to lose their votes.

it's pretty logical. I know im town. I dont know your affiliation. Therefore, by removing your vote from play, i increase my individual sway. It's a nulltell. And besides, its kinda the rule for today. I want to play the game fairly thanks. If you don't, you should request replacement.

Funny thing is, i'm almost certain to lose my vote before the day is up. So i'm gonna at least take some of you guys with me!

BM

[Battle Mage]

^obvscum

Confirm Fakevote: Battle Mage

lol, and you think this is a shining example of why we'd want a player like you to have a vote? xD

BM

[Battle Mage]

Neah, BM's probably town. I thought he was town day 1, and he's acting like town today; he's being agressive, going way out on a limb on basically a paranoid town "Yos is mayor, and he's still alive, he must be scum" feeling , he's putting himself in a place where he'd look really bad when I flip town, and I don't really think he would take risks like that if he was scum. It's just a gut feeling, but I don't think he's all that likely to be scum at the moment.

Gee, it must be really nice to be able to APPARENTLY instinctively know who is town, without being considered suspicious...
And i like the way you've left yourself sufficient scope to shift from this position if necessary. Yeh im just a tad bitter that you arent gonna be lynched today-partly down to the fact we only have a handful of people actually playing.

Anyway, the whole thing with Mufasa seems to have slipped by the wayside here. Yesterday, he said it would be good for the town if he was lynched today, because of some trigger-when-he-gets-lynched ability he was claiming; today, he's saying it wouldn't be good for him to get lynched. Mufasa, why did you change your mind?

Meh, i'll look into it today.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Its been a good 24 hours

Unvote Vote Mr Flay

lmao. I concur

Vote: Mr Flay

BM

*disclaimer-im a bit high atm. lol

[Battle Mage]

With 3 flays, thats a lynch. Mr Flay was the humble town paedophile. It is now BACK TO REALITY.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Request Replacement

Exams will prohibit me from staying active in more than 1 game atm

Don't let Yos survive to endgame. Srsly. Thanks for the game guys!

BM

[Battle Mage]

Something I do agree with is not letting Yos survive til the endgame though. I think we should lynch Yos sooner or later before the endgame, and keep lynching until we have a townie mayor that gives the mayorship to millar. A scummy mayor would do far more damage than a townie mayor would help, in my opinion.

:eyebrow:

That's horrible logic, by the way. If you think I'm more likely town then scum, then lynching me just because I got elected mayor is incredibly anti-town. We need to be lynching scum, not wasting lynch after lynch killing off townie mayors like you seem to be suggesting.

In any case, if I do die, I highly doubt I could give the mayorship to a "ghost" who is confirmed town but can't vote, but we can ask the mod.

Mod: Could Millar become mayor now?

Plus, the whole thing about "kill off Yos or BS" is pretty bad as well. BM attacked me, and he's wrong, but that dson't make him scum either.

did you just call me BS? damn....

I get a bad feeling about the Mufasa wagon. I thought Gorrad was talking about Obama. lmao

BM

[Battle Mage]

im still here? wow.

I didnt think expressing sympathy with the dead townie was a massive deal, but the explanation doesnt wash. Seriously, you were upset with the night's result? As far as i can see, losing a vanilla townie over night isnt a particularly surprisingly or bad result.

Vote: Dramonic

I'm thinking that might be -1 or -2?

BM

[Battle Mage]

no. no. no. We do NOT discuss the second lynch today, because if we do, we give scum the chance to co-ordinate and overturn our decision. Unless you think we can get a nearly unanimous verdict, we are best off just going with our instincts, and assuming that scum will be clueless anyway, and probably cancel each other out. I advise keeping an eye out for anyone trying to communicate like this.

Your gamebreaking idea looks nice, but won't work in practice.

also, who are you replacing? lol

BM

[Battle Mage]

Unless you think we can get a nearly unanimous verdict, we are best off just going with our instincts, and assuming that scum will be clueless anyway, and probably cancel each other out.

When I read the rule where the mod locks the thread and has people PM him votes, that sounded like twilight to me. And I think it’s standard that a scum group can night talk during twilight, so why would the scum be clueless if this is the case?

Seems like a big 'if' to me. I dont think scum will be able to communicate, as that makes today's event pro-scum, which i dont think is the intention. Also, i cant remember if scum can talk during twilight in games which feature the phase. Somebody can confirm that?

Either way, the replacement's idea of trying to trap scum seems very unlikely to work.

BM

[Battle Mage]

no. no. no. We do NOT discuss the second lynch today, because if we do, we give scum the chance to co-ordinate and overturn our decision. Unless you think we can get a nearly unanimous verdict, we are best off just going with our instincts, and assuming that scum will be clueless anyway, and probably cancel each other out. I advise keeping an eye out for anyone trying to communicate like this.

Your gamebreaking idea looks nice, but won't work in practice.

also, who are you replacing? lol

BM

It isn't a gamebreaking idea, and I never said it was.

Haha, i dont care if you acknowledged it or not, i state it as it is. It is a gamebreaking idea. Not that that makes it a bad thing.

But without discussion it is not a pro-town event. How do you expect the scum to cancel each other out if they only vote for town players? Basically you have two groups, one group who will vote for anyone and one group who will vote only town players. The results of those two groups get combined and it seems that if there is no town attempt at knowing whats going on then we are just going to lose someone who is town.

Thats absolutely ridiculous logic. For starters, scum are in the minority, so we're probs only up against a few, lets say 4 for this example. If there are 9 townies, the likelyhood is, that with no communication, no townie will get more than 1 vote from scum. But, with 9 townies, the odds of someone getting 2 votes is higher. Thats a shite example, but you get the idea?
Scum voting protown players is not a big deal, because we are numerous enough for it to not matter, if they cant co-ordinate. Effectively, their votes will means very little, and the likelyhood is, we can actually take back some power. Ofc, this is all on the proviso that we dont lynch scum today.

Either way, the replacement's idea of trying to trap scum seems very unlikely to work.

It isn't an idea to trap scum (though it potentially can if the scum are dumb enough). It's a plan to take the day's event out of the inherent advantage of scum and let the town know what's happening. I don't see how the town having more information in this case would be a bad thing. What does the town lose by everyone making their second lynch choice public?

But don't you see? By discussing it publically, you only allow scum ample opportunity to co-ordinate. I think we'd be better off not talking about it, and watching to see if scum want to out themselves of their own accord.
I really don't think you've thought this through objectively. If scum know who everyone protown is voting, they make a greater knowledge gain than we do, and most importantly, they can ensure that we dont lynch scum.

BM

[Battle Mage]

if the vote results are revealed the next day, that does put a slightly different slant on things. But you can bet ur ass that some townies will lie.

BM

[Battle Mage]

BM, you seem conveniently biased.

feel free to elaborate. :S

BM

[Battle Mage]

No, scouam.

Zwet blows...



Smoke.

BM

[Battle Mage]

unvote, votE: zwet

[Battle Mage]

Because knowing what is left is good for optimal use of said roles.

In the RL game anyway <<

Unvote, vote: Zwet

no sense in allowing him to cruise. I thought we'd dealt with this a while back, tbh?

BM

[Battle Mage]

@Mike: I think day 4 is enough time for people to notice if someone changes their behavior if they think they're being suspected, and by day 4 you could probably look at them now vs. before and see if any moves don't follow from day to day. Unless I guess they just recently replaced in and haven't posted much, but those people should be under pressure to keep active anyway.

True enough, I guess there's only so long you can wait- it's Battle Mage I've been a bit suspicious of. Mufasa said something on day 2 about Battle Mage changing his behaviour at the end of day 1- at the time I thought it was too early to be able to say that, and definately too early to want to lynch him for it.

But by now, looking back, it's true. Battle Mage secured a townie first impression on day 1 (a day where we ended up lynching a townie, in effect) and has since changed posting style considerably, resting on that first impression. Or that's the impression I get anyway.

And he hasn't posted in over a week. It's bad that replacements haven't been posting, and it's bad that Ztife hasn't done much posting since the very beginning, but this is out of character with Battle Mage. And I can understand replacements not posting in a 50-page game, but not so much someone who has been here from the start. Ztife, I have no idea whether he's townie or not- he seems to post a line or two without saying much relating to the game when prodded but never otherwise.

Vote: Battle Mage

Lol, you realise i requested replacement about 20 pages ago. I cant quite believe im still listed as being in the game tbh. I've got a bit of time now, so if youve got something specific to ask, shoot.

Your post seems a bit reachy. I mean, can you really criticise someone for not posting, when you aren't even reading? lmao

BM

[Battle Mage]

MikeSC6, who is your top suspect at the moment and why are you not voting?

I do have a suspect, though it's mostly a gut based thing- the case I have is so slight, though, that I'm hesitant to post it up in case it makes that person change their behaviour or avoid making any scummy moves that they might. It's not enough to warrant a vote, I don't think, but if I had to choose right now I would lynch this person. I have expressed some suspicion about this person in the past.

If people want a name and identification of what I feel might be scummy behaviour, I'll post it up, though I'd rather wait and see for a while. And I wouldn't want to divert attention from the discussion about me not justifying my change of opinion about Dr Pepper- i want to get that over with, if there are any questions I'm still open.

lmao, this must be the prelude.

Well, i hate to ruin the ending for you, but Zwet is the play. String him up, doc!

BM

[Battle Mage]

Zwet is the play?

You may have asked to be replaced a while ago, but you then continued to post. I'd imagined that whatever the reason for your requesting replacement wasn't a problem any longer, because you continued to play the game. And the change in posting style comes before your requesting to be replaced.

Those last two posts, for example, are very different to your posting style early on. That leads me to believe that your townie-first-impression posting style early on was an act.

Yes, Zwet is the play. To explain why would probably entail plenty of ad hom. Suffice to say, he isnt contributing, and his blatant blowing of smoke without any regard for actual reasons or scumhunting, has not gone unnoticed by me, and should not go unpunished by you.

The reason for my requesting replacement was that i didnt have the time or inclination to reread a game that seems to have us royally screwed at this point. That problem has not gone away. Did you not consider that the change in posting style might be linked to my request for replacement, as opposed to my affiliation? Might make a little more sense, given your earlier assertion that i seemed protown early on.

I'm around to claim and stuff if need be, but i think you would be far better off waiting for the mod to get a replacement and then see what he can do.

BM

[Battle Mage]

@BM: Have you been reading the thread? How did you respond to Mike's accusation so quickly?

Coincidence. My exams ended a little while ago, so ive had a bit more time, and when id finished posting in my games, i had a look at this one.

@Mike - lol, i cant really argue with sheer, unsubstantiated gut. But, i maintain that you are pushing a mighty soft wagon.

BM

[Battle Mage]

wanna replace me?

[Battle Mage]

or just modkill?

BM

[Battle Mage]

elect me! *insert Obama-style political spin*

BM

[Battle Mage]

I thought BM left this game? Welcome back, I guess?

Vote for executioner: Gorrad

he seems town to me

I'm up for lynching all the flakers. Or MikeSC. Whichever.

Well, i got prodded by some night action overnight, and told that im still in the game until a replacement gets sorted. So i guess i'm still around. I'll once again say that, if made executioner, i will retract my replacement request. I wont reread, but i'll be around to tell you the results (which is effectively what the executioner is for). I've said i'm happy to be modkilled in the meantime, so you can regard me as confirmed town, and i'm not leaving the site any time soon.

Your call.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Well, i got prodded by some night action overnight, and told that im still in the game until a replacement gets sorted. So i guess i'm still around. I'll once again say that, if made executioner, i will retract my replacement request. I wont reread, but i'll be around to tell you the results (which is effectively what the executioner is for). I've said i'm happy to be modkilled in the meantime, so you can regard me as confirmed town, and i'm not leaving the site any time soon.

How exactly does that mean we can regard you as confirmed town?

I wouldnt allow myself to be modkilled as scum. Not when i could just lurk to victory. As town, i'm useless if im not participating, so i might aswell be dead.

And, seeing as there is some doubt over my usefulness, i'll sweeten the deal, just for you Yos.
If elected Executioner, i will reread yesterday.

BM

[Battle Mage]

You shouldn't have to promise that you will re-read if you are elected Executioner. You should do that on your own since you are playing this game.

I'm not.

Also,

Vote: Starbuck

You dont even look familiar to me.

BM

[Battle Mage]

@Battle Mage: It seems to me like you'd want to cause some shenanigans with the role, whether town or not. If you're willing to be replaced out, yet still remain active on the site, there must be something in it for you in the Executioner role for it to make you stay active.

If you plan on telling the whole truth and nothing but the truth, I don't see what you'd get out of it.

I don't want to see you replaced, but if we elect you Executioner that means we won't know your role until the end of the game, as you'd be told your role on the lynch and nobody else.

I wouldnt cause shenanigans, id report accurately ofc. I wouldnt know enough about the game to do anything else. lol!

But srsly, there isnt really anything in it for me, except the power and responsibility. I've played a couple of these type of games, and never been elected anything decent. So, i guess its a case of me being inspired to actually help.

I realise my attitude is pretty shocking here, but i srsly have no time for a full reread, with so many other games atm.

I have nothing to gain with this role as scum- presumably anybody not in my scumgroup will be town. Knowing their role is of very little value. And i dont know enough of the game to use knowledge of roles to manipulate lynches.

More importantly, having this role in the hands of town can give us some idea of just HOW MUCH trouble we are in. lol

I'm vanilla btw.

BM

[Battle Mage]

That's why I'm concerned about BM. He seems very overexcited to be Executioner, and I'm getting a very scummy vibe from him.

then lynch me. *shrug*

But dont expect an easy job, given my status as confirmed-town and all. Anyway i'm really too busy to post here again. So, was nice playing with you all.

Mod: Please prod me if i become Executioner

BM

[Battle Mage]

That's why I'm concerned about BM. He seems very overexcited to be Executioner, and I'm getting a very scummy vibe from him.

then lynch me. *shrug*

But dont expect an easy job, given my status as confirmed-town and all. Anyway i'm really too busy to post here again. So, was nice playing with you all.

Mod: Please prod me if i become Executioner

BM

If you are too busy to post here, why are you asking for a prod if you are to become Executioner?

what do you mean?

[Battle Mage]

Vote for executioner: Jahudo

I want to be replaced, but the Mod is not replacing. This "in between bullshit" represents where i actually AM.

BM

[Battle Mage]

My gut says Yos is scum. Zwet isnt a perfect choice for Executioner, but it could be worse.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Well, we could try to actually hunt scum/piper.

As I said a few pages back, unless we're being mercilessly WIFOMd, the Piper is somebody who was inactive last night (Millar (now zwet); ztife; Rockatansky; BM)

Zwet is confirmed town, and Rockatansky is already a dancer, so that makes the two probable pipers Ztife and BM, both of whom have bizzarely volunteered themselves for a position it's obvious they didn't deserve. (go figure)

I will

Vote: Battle Mage

. His saying he got "prodded by some night action overnight" in iso 100 makes me think he might be our man.

I was dancing last night. For the first time. You were there too.

BM

[Battle Mage]

NabakovNabakov makes a good point. The same four people were dancing on both nights 3 and 4. So, unless NabakovNabakov is the Piper (since he was the other person dancing on night one), it's someone who submitted no action last night, or was blocked, which I don't believe is a possibility (though I could be wrong). Battle Mage seems scummy enough thqat he's as good a pick as any.

vote: Battle Mage

How can i be the Piper if i only started dancing last night? :S

BM

[Battle Mage]

Well, we could try to actually hunt scum/piper.

As I said a few pages back, unless we're being mercilessly WIFOMd, the Piper is somebody who was inactive last night (Millar (now zwet); ztife; Rockatansky; BM)

Zwet is confirmed town, and Rockatansky is already a dancer, so that makes the two probable pipers Ztife and BM, both of whom have bizzarely volunteered themselves for a position it's obvious they didn't deserve. (go figure)

I will

Vote: Battle Mage

. His saying he got "prodded by some night action overnight" in iso 100 makes me think he might be our man.

Haha, 2 things.

1. Who are you to judge who "deserves" a position? The executioner doesnt need to be someone who has played well, it needs to be someone who is protown. I fit the role perfectly.
2. Do you really think that I, as scum, would claim to have been prodded by a night-action, if that night actions implicated me as scum?

This is almost as funny as it is unnerving.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Btw, i'm going to full claim, in case the dancers are scum:

NabNab
DizzyIzzy
Rockatansky
Ztife

I think thats them. Will check my PM.

BM

[Battle Mage]

As someone who hasn't been around much, you seem to be very defensive.

alright Mr. Snidey. You go back in your box now, good good.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Well, we could try to actually hunt scum/piper.

As I said a few pages back, unless we're being mercilessly WIFOMd, the Piper is somebody who was inactive last night (Millar (now zwet); ztife; Rockatansky; BM)

Zwet is confirmed town, and Rockatansky is already a dancer, so that makes the two probable pipers Ztife and BM, both of whom have bizzarely volunteered themselves for a position it's obvious they didn't deserve. (go figure)

I will

Vote: Battle Mage

. His saying he got "prodded by some night action overnight" in iso 100 makes me think he might be our man.

Haha, 2 things.

1. Who are you to judge who "deserves" a position? The executioner doesnt need to be someone who has played well, it needs to be someone who is protown. I fit the role perfectly.
2. Do you really think that I, as scum, would claim to have been prodded by a night-action, if that night actions implicated me as scum?

This is almost as funny as it is unnerving.

BM

1) Why guess on the townieness of a player when we have a confirmed townie at our disposal? You didn't deserve the position because you were very clearly pre-empted by Millar/Zwet.
2) WIFOM. Also, with the amount of attention you've been paying to this game, I wouldn't be surprised.

My PM does NOT say you were dancing last night (what about you, Izzy?). Potentially a mod error, so I'll see if I can get confirmation.

Haha, why do i find it hilariously strange that im being called scum for dancing, by...the other people who were dancing?

BM

[Battle Mage]

And BM, how are you a better choice for executioner than a confirmed town?

I'm not. But then, i never said i was. When this was being discussed, the only confirmed townie here was completely inactive.

Vote: Dizzy

Sounds like you're a little too upset about the cock-up with the dancing thing.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I don't think that's a reason for you to vote him.

If something is screwed up with the game mechanic, then it should be fixed.

Dont be opaque. Why would DizzyIzzyB13 be concerned about the win condition of an alleged anti-town faction, unless he was part of that anti-town faction? I'm not an authority on this game, but from my PoV, it stinks.

BM

[Battle Mage]

...the fuck? If the game is damaged and a player's win condition is compromised because of mod activity, the game should be abandoned out of a sense of fair play. Typical BM bullshit that liking fairness is a reason to vote for someone.

Haha, if the game is damaged, how is whinging about it going to solve anything? I think it's odd that you raise this now, when your own affiliation comes into question. I dont see how Dizzy-town would feel abandonment was a reasonable response to an issue that hasnt even been discussed uptill now, from what i'm aware.

I dont know why my vote worries you so much tbh. I can only pick out 1 person here who is actually listening to me. I'm hardly likely to run you up.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Piper targets two a night in the card game. The role would be broken if the piper was seen dancing, so Dizzy cannot be the piper.

Ztife is the best candidate for inactive-piper. BM posted closer to night, but Ztife was inactive for a whole month whereas ztif was around for the other nights.

Vote: Ztife

By that logic, Ztife cannot be the piper either.

I like my vote.

BM

[Battle Mage]

So now I'm guessing BM is going to re-ask for a replacement.

i never un-asked.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Okay, then just vote for scummiest.

unvote;
Vote: MikeSC

can we run up one of the 2 original dancers plz?

Starbuck is being silly.

BM

[Battle Mage]

BM is gleeful that he's manipulating the town into thinking that he can't be scum just because he can't be the piper.

when i die, you could tell them i'm scum, just to improve the town's confidence, and to confuse the living hell out of the baddies. Just a thought.

BM

[Battle Mage]

BM is gleeful that he's manipulating the town into thinking that he can't be scum just because he can't be the piper.

when i die, you could tell them i'm scum, just to improve the town's confidence, and to confuse the living hell out of the baddies. Just a thought.

BM

BM, did someone just bet you that you couldn't make the scummiest post ever in a mafia game in 3 lines or less?

lol no. Do you think im scum then?

BM

[Battle Mage]

I don't think it would be helpful to town to lie about the result of a lynch at all (that goes without saying). I don't see how Battle Mage's posts would fit into a town play at all- especially this "I'm confirmed town because I've asked for a replacement" while still posting.

But we can be sure he's not the Piper. With six left not dancing, it's possible that tomorrow could be our last chance to lynch the Piper (taking deaths into account). Although by adding dancers the Piper's narrowing it down for us.

ok, i'll bite. whats a Piper?

Btw, im not confirmed because i asked for replacement. im confirmed because i offered to be modkilled. i wouldnt do that as scum.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I doubt we could do much worse than a BM lynch. Even if he can't be the Piper, he's acting in a very, very scummy manner.

If i was scum, i just wouldnt be posting. Why should i draw attention to myself, when lurking my way through the game was such a successful strategy?

BM

[Battle Mage]

I doubt we could do much worse than a BM lynch.

i agree.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Offering to be modkilled wouldn't help anyone from any side. I can't imagine there ever being a role in any game where the win condition was to be modkilled. It's definately not particularly pro-town.

And the Piper is the thing that we think is making people dance, because this game is based on a card game that has a Piper that does that.

so is the Piper like a cult recruiter?

The fact is, i wouldnt offer to be modkilled as scum, because all i need to do to meet my win condition is to survive. I dont need to actually play, so id be quite happy not participating and just going on like that. But im happy to be modkilled, because i'm town, and i was as useful alive as i would be dead. So yeh, i wouldnt blame you guys for lynching me, based on my lack of following the game. But you cant really say im scummy.

BM

[Battle Mage]

BM is so the last werewolf.

lol, you got me SO wrong, hombre.

BM

[Battle Mage]

one or two.

This was a 21 person game...

Then I'm about 80% sure BM is a werewolf.

would you bet your considerable reputation on it? xD

BM

[Battle Mage]

getting townvibes off Gorrad. Still happy with a DizzyIzzy lynch.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Do YOU think BM is scum?

who do you think you are? Uncle Sam? lmfao

BM

[Battle Mage]

lol u think Gorrad is my scumbuddy, given my last post? really?

BM

[Battle Mage]

@Mod: How are replacements going?

It looks like Battle Mage isn't coming back this time. I hope he does, it's much harder to get a read on replacements, and the consistency-over-time tell is thrown out the window. Are there any other past players who are still active on the site, does anyone know?

i'm here. Consistency over time is one of the least applicable tells used on site, as far as i'm concerned.

My vote stands, and i expect Gorrad may be town.

BM

[Battle Mage]

starbuck is probably werewolf. Dizzy, Piper?

BM

[Battle Mage]

how does the Piper win?

BM

[Battle Mage]

The Piper wins by getting everyone to dance. Almost everyone left is dancing. Piper needs to die, ASAP, which means we need to get whichever of Jahudo and Starbuck it is before we can kill BMscum

aww, but i wanna lynch BM-scum NOW!

Also, that role makes no sense. Surely the Piper cannot realistically win, if he recruits 1 person per night, and everyone knows he is not dancing. That's retardedly unbalanced, and is why i think the piper must be dancing.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Game Over. muahahaha

[Battle Mage]

nah. I'm just screwin wit ya!

BM

[Battle Mage]

meh. I was town, obv.

BM