MKM II GAME OVER

[populartajo]

Vote: Populartajo

Confirmed townie last time. Law of averages says he's confirmed scum this time.

Lulz.
Hi Cream. How have you been?

Vote : Empking

Random even if you dont believe me.

[populartajo]

Why did you have to add the last part? Who said anything was wrong with Emp votes?

I was talking to Empking. We have an interesting relationship.

[populartajo]

Don't worry. Gay marriage will be legalized soon.

Llol, im not gay and even if i were, Empking would definitely not be one of my choices (no offense ).

Unvote vote zwet.

[populartajo]

this thread needs more spamming
zwet go!

[populartajo]

Kay, too much random shiizle
name mass claiming for the win?

[populartajo]

First of all, I want everybody thoughts of this. Thats why I asked.

The other game, we had a situation to prevent name massclaim. Princess Peach could get captured by scum giving them an autowin if they could keep her for a night with no killing Bowser.

Now we dont have it and I strongly believe that Lawrencelot put the good guys in a side and the bad guys in the other, like in the other game.

Its also possible he gave scum fakeclaims, but Im sure not all scum got believable ones. Source, the previous game again.

[populartajo]

I totally missed that.

Unvote, Vote: populartajo

err, why are you voting me?

[populartajo]

I wasn't in the last game, but Rule #13 seems pretty specific. How do you know there's not another thing like Peach being kidnapped?

because Law would have told us, specially if it gives scum an autowin, dont ya think?

Mod edit
Visible Votecount

-populartajo (3): Cream147, Gorrad, AceMarksman
-Empking (2): Shinnen_no_Me, zwetschenwasser
-zwetschenwasser (2): populartajo, pacman281292
-Shinnen_no_Me (2): Empking, Riceballtail
-Dubya (1): Shadow Knight
-ortolan (1): caf19
-qwints (1): ortolan

Not voting (5): killa seven, Surye, Moratorium, Dubya, qwints

With 17 alive it takes 9 real votes to lynch.

[populartajo]

massclaim is a bad idea, and based on MKMI, helps scum.

I NEVER said it was a good idea. Im evaluating it right now and waiting for everybody's opinions on this.
Why do you think it helps scum?

[populartajo]

I wasn't in the last game, but Rule #13 seems pretty specific. How do you know there's not another thing like Peach being kidnapped?

because Law would have told us, specially if it gives scum an autowin, dont ya think?

I trust Lawrencelot to create a game that could not be broken by a name claim (Wow, end rhymes FTW). If he says that mass claiming is a bad idea, I trust that it's a bad idea.

kay this makes sense.
Do you think there is something hidden to prevent nameclaim or you just think its a bad idea?

[populartajo]

kay, and the vote is on me because....?

[populartajo]

I feel the suggestion of a massclaim a move that is most likely to come from a scum-aligned entity.

could it be for a townie trying to break the game?

[populartajo]

Yes, but you seem to have a sufficient knowledge of the first mushroom kingdom mafia game, no? It would stand to reason, then, that you would know that a massclaim would more likely than not tip the scales in the scum's favor.

except the only reason why massclaim was a bad idea in the last game was ONLY due to Peach's clause.
Apparently, this game doesnt have this clause, so I was thinking in why not give it a try and ask others why would it be a bad idea.
you seem so fixated in the idea that i am scum, any reason for that?

[populartajo]

I am not fixated in the idea that you are scum. Not by a longshot. No, you have only exhibited one thing that I would attribute to scum. Being so early in the game, that makes you the scummiest atm, but this is subject to change.


How do you know this game does not have a similar clause?

Ive already said that if there was a clause of those features (scum auto win), Law would have already said it.
Or do you think we can still have it?

[populartajo]

No, I think we can have it. This is very much a bastard mod setup.

lol what?

[populartajo]

This isn't a bastard mod game, is it? Otherwise, it seems that we'd need a real good reason to think about massclaiming when the rules suggest against it. This point (which others have made) leads me to:

vote:populartajo

i seem to be missing something here.
why the vote when I have been CLEAR in express that I DONT support name massclaiming.

[populartajo]

Also, Ive been thinking in another way to possibly break this game.
Law posted in the OP that only some items work regarding alignment. Therefore we can confirm alignments with items, right?

[populartajo]

All the voters for me. Is it because I brought something new to the table that has the potential to break the game if done well the only reason that Im scum?

Process of reasoning.

1. Last game the ONLY reason why town didnt massclaim was the famous Peach clause. (If scum found out who Peach was, game was over).

2. We

apparently

dont have in this game this clause.

3. Therefore, I wanted to evaluate the possibility of name massclaiming. Im not in favor or against it, IM JUST EVALUATING IT with the town.

Also, do you find my other proposition: "confirmation using items" also a bad idea? Explain why.

[populartajo]

3. Therefore, I wanted to evaluate the possibility of name massclaiming. Im not in favor or against it, IM JUST EVALUATING IT with the town.

I really dislike this part, it seems to say (to me) "and find out who's this game's "peach"."

Except that we are not protecting Peach this time.
Are you?

[populartajo]

3. Therefore, I wanted to evaluate the possibility of name massclaiming. Im not in favor or against it, IM JUST EVALUATING IT with the town.

I really dislike this part, it seems to say (to me) "and find out who's this game's "peach"."

Except that we are not protecting Peach this time.
Are you?

By ""Peach"", I didn't mean the role name "Peach", I meant "role to benefit scum in the event of a mass claim"

You think I am scum, Emp?
What do you think of alignment claim?

[populartajo]

Is "name claiming for the win?"

that

different to "im evaluating name claiming"?
Really, Mora?

[populartajo]

What else do you need to confirm my scum status?
Also, about alignment claim, dont you think that that piece of information is vital for the development of the game?

[populartajo]

Ace, why are you against a massclaim?
Precisely, plz.

[populartajo]

EBWOP
*name massclaim.

[populartajo]

tajo: because rule 13 is very specific warning us not to, and it was a bad idea in MKMI.

Surye: Oh yeah, I didn't think that number of votes would be indicative of role importance.

Did you read MKMI?

[populartajo]

Ace, why are you against a massclaim?
Precisely, plz.

Pop, that looks as if you were supporting a name massclaim.

No, no. Thats like asking someone why do you disagree with a random event. I want to know his reasons.
Im going to ask ALL this question:

If somebody claims Mario, would you believe him, yes or not?

[populartajo]

Ace, why are you against a massclaim?
Precisely, plz.

Pop, that looks as if you were supporting a name massclaim.

No, no. Thats like asking someone why do you disagree with a random event. I want to know his reasons.

In the way you state it, it looks like if you were for.

It looks like.
Specially when Ive been saying that I dont support it since I brought it to the table.

[populartajo]

Also, answer the question...

[populartajo]

Darn... And I was hoping I was scum. I'm part of bowser's army, and I also don't know who is who. I think that revealing this is what poptajo was aiming for.

Yeah, pretty much.

Shinnen, I might be missing something but what slip are you talking about?

I would like everyone's opinions on this subject. I think we can evaluate some genuine reactions which I was aiming to since the beginning. So far, we have some interesting ones and Ill analyse them later.

[populartajo]

vote Surye

I didn't have any confusion about which side I'm on and it feels like you're trying too hard to find something scummy so soon into this game.

Im still analysing reactions but this is by far the most I dislike.
How the hell you werent confused about which side when you get "supposedly" a Bowser Army PM?
I think the most logical reactions is a)Gorrad reaction like thinking he was a traitor or b)Acting confused.
This is a good start.

Vote: Shadowknigh.

Mod: not counted, unvote first

[populartajo]

So this is why a massclaim was bad...

The irony is that a mass claim BEFORE we realized what was going on would have probably broken the game. Bowsers army would fake claim thinking we were mafia of some sort, pretending to be mario roles, and mushroom kingdom may have caught on, and may have caught on, and role claimed either their real role, or a bowser role, causing.... okay, it's too convoluted to predict, but it would have been interesting ;P

THANK YOU VERY MUCH SIR.
Obviously there are always people that dont look outside the window...

[populartajo]

How the hell you werent confused about which side when you get "supposedly" a Bowser Army PM?

Because I can read flavor and my role PM and *not* be stupid? The mushroom kingdom is invading us... I am part of bowser's castle... I don't see anyone else's name in my role PM...

Kay, so as soon as you read your PM, you realized that you were town, or you had any doubts about it?

[populartajo]

Truly, tajo, with your question you make me think that you didn't know for sure who the town is. If you knew that town is bowser army, you wouldn't have asked about a Mario claim.

What?
When did I ask for a Mario claim?

[populartajo]

What's confusing to me right now is that although I'm a member of bowser's army, which has a pretty specific townie win condition, the powers granted by the items available to us for purchase are...

...

(how to put this in a way only townies should understand)

...

Unexpected.

Exactly.

Mod edit
Visible Votecount

-zwetschenwasser (4): populartajo, pacman281292, AceMarksman, Shinnen_no_Me
-populartajo (2): qwints, ortolan
-AceMarksman (3): caf19, zwetschenwasser, Gorrad
-Shinnen_no_Me (2): Riceballtail, Surye
-Dubya (1): Shadow Knight
-Gorrad (1): Empking

Not voting (4): killa seven, Moratorium, Dubya, Cream147

With 17 alive it takes 9 real votes to lynch.

[populartajo]

Yeah, how so Zwet?

@Surye: So, I'm scum because I voted for zwet, after he slipped like that? Sorry, I do find suspicious his slip (the slip that he didn't know alignment of bowser army), but after a long thought, I'm thinking that zwet is not likely scum but third party. One way or another, I don't think he knew who the town was, hence he's not town.

Could you please point me to this slip you are talking about?

[populartajo]

Wait a second.
We have items that only Bowser's Army know how they work.
Can we massively confirm people with this?

[populartajo]

I read my PM. Paused. Read the PM again. Checked the flavor of the game. Went "Ohhh, duh." Total elapsed time: roughly 30 seconds.

Kay. Anyone not knowing the flavour or a little less "intelligent" than you, could still be confused about his role?

[populartajo]

The flavor is posted on page one. How could anyone not know it?

Someone who hasnt read it before checking his PM, like me?

[populartajo]

If you got a role PM that made you confused, would you not PM the mod or read the flavor from the opening posts before running in here and posting something?

I actually PMed the mod.
His answer was "I cant tell you"
Then I thought for some minutes, checked the flavour for the first time in OP and then realized that it was pretty clear that Bowser's Army was the uninformed majority.
But still at that point, I was like really wondering if I really really was town. The fact that I got a PM with Bowser's Army (aka the bad guys) role kinda influenced. Why are you so certain and why do you think that a player that could be confused about this is likely to be scum?
.........
Do you agree with post 178?

[populartajo]

vote Surye

I didn't have any confusion about which side I'm on and it feels like you're trying too hard to find something scummy so soon into this game.

Really, Shadow Knight?

And you are not answering the question in 178 why?

[populartajo]

Wait a second.
We have items that only Bowser's Army know how they work.
Can we massively confirm people with this?

The unimaginative answer to this is something like "Pick four people, ask them to paraphrase the powers of the four Bowser's Army items".

Pro: Four players are either confirmed or outed.

Con: The item powers are revealed to all.

Actually, why would we only confirm or out 4 players?
I can think in 17 different questions to confirm every player here.

[populartajo]

Mod, plz prod or replace inactives.

Ill give my thoughts of the current situation later.

Mod edit
Visible Votecount

-zwetschenwasser (4): populartajo, pacman281292, AceMarksman, Shinnen_no_Me
-Empking (1): zwetschenwasser
-populartajo (1): ortolan
-Shinnen_no_Me (2): Riceballtail, Surye
-AceMarksman (1): Shadow Knight
-Gorrad (1): Empking
-killa seven (1): qwints

Not voting (6): killa seven, Moratorium, Dubya, Cream147, Gorrad, caf19

With 17 alive it takes 9 real votes to lynch.

[populartajo]

First, I want everyone that doesnt have the description of their items in their PMs to step forward, plz.

I obv have the description of all the items that Bowser's Army can use.

If these guys are town, that means that its less probable that scum have the description of the town items in their PMs.

Ill make a list, feel free to add you to the list.

People with items description

Tajo

People with no items description

Gorrad
Ace

[populartajo]

First, I want everyone that doesnt have the description of their items in their PMs to step forward, plz.

Ill make a list, feel free to add you to the list.

People with items description

Tajo
Zwet
Qwints

People with no items description

Gorrad
Ace[/quote]

[populartajo]

Law, can you replace Dubya and K7?

[populartajo]

Law, can you replace Dubya and K7?

Why do you people hate me :*(

Oh, I didnt see you had already posted, I thought you left the site...
Good to see ya again, K7.
sup K7?

[populartajo]

I do not have descriptions.

I also feel that this is a stupid idea and will just narrow down which of us can buy/use items.

Its a risk we should take.
But do you think we wont find scum in this exercise?

[populartajo]

Also, you are not suspecting Surye anymore?

[populartajo]

It's useless. That's what Law did; put people town that can't buy items and confirm themselves.
The only good thing I would see on that is that it puts the scum on WIFOM... but I think it's too risky. I disagree with that thing.

But thats only the first part of the plan, pacman...
Why are you so sure about what Law did?

[populartajo]

I already have 3-4 prob confirmed town but Ill share after everyone has answered. Reactions are a big part of this game.

[populartajo]

TAJO CAN EDIT POSTS?!!

No, why?

[populartajo]

Unvote Vote : Ortolan.

[populartajo]

Ill give reasons for my vote later when I have the time but this guy is just too obvious or too antagonistic to the town be true.

I know that confirming people with role information is kinda lame but it's legal if done properly (last game we kinda did this) and it seems like you dont want to help the town and you are asking the mod for punishing us for trying to find a way to break the game.

Sigh.

But now, I prepared some notes yesterday and Im sharing this with you. Information is very important here.

Just FYI and specially knowing how people like to compare this game to the previous MKI game, here are some additional facts you may or may not know:

a) We definitely have roles more important than others, however these are not pretty different the one from the other aside from number of coins and voting abilities. In last game, we had Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, etc and a bunch of Toads (vanilla townies). However, EVERY role can become a pain in the ass with the right plan and items. I was a confirmed Toad last time and we managed to rape scum ass with gamebreaking strategies.

b) Last time, we had 1 mafia group (Bowser's Army), 2 anti-town third partys coin stealers with different win conditions (DK and Wario) and 1 town. Its very probable we are facing the same scenario.

c) Bowser's Army, last time, had a shared nightkill but could buy additional kills in fireflower or star form. Dk and Wario didnt have any NKs.

[populartajo]

Now that I think about this, I find it to be a not so good idea. If we assume as true that some roles can't buy items, we will assume that the ones that can are more powerful.

Actually Im not a powerful role but I still can buy items.

FoS : Shinnen

for making weak assumptions and comploting against a very good plan.

[populartajo]

First, I want everyone that doesnt have the description of their items in their PMs to step forward, plz.

Ill make a list, feel free to add you to the list.

People with items description

Tajo
Zwet
Qwints
caf19
pacman

People with no items description

Gorrad
Ace
Shadow Knight

Refusing to

Empking
Ortolan
Shinnen

Still no claim

k7
Cream
Rice
Surye
Mora
Dubya

[populartajo]

Now that I think about this, I find it to be a not so good idea. If we assume as true that some roles can't buy items, we will assume that the ones that can are more powerful. By claiming who can and who can't, we're just giving the mafia a pretty good list of who they should kill at nights. Sorry, but I'm not finding that a very smart thing to do.

I hate you, specially when you say exactly what I was going to say

FOS

you for the same reasons Shinnen was fosed.

[populartajo]

[populartajo]

For the lazy people here are ortolan attempts to plot against the healthy town attempts to break the game:

I highly doubt it. No practical way of doing it, game-breaking so presumably the mod has measures against it etc.

And what if the mod doesnt have measures against it?

True. By paraphrasing the effects. Technically we would do something really lame like "what is the seventh letter in the description for this item" but I don't think that will be treated kindly by the mod,

amirite, mod?

Agree that kind of strategy (confirming by the 7th letter is lame) but nobody has proposed that. We are proposing asking questions about what the items do. But thx for calling the mod again for at least trying to break the game.

So is the assumption here that basically Law didn't put anything in the scum role pm's that says "Hey, by the way, in case town tries this tactic, here's the list of items that town can buy and their powers"?

Very good point which I thought of as well. The interesting thing about this, though, is that (possibly ) at least one of the items seems to be rendered useless or at least much less useful if one's enemy knows what it does (which may suggest

they can't know

what our items do).

Make a stance, do you think scum have items description in their PMs or nor?

Nah I'm actually getting increasingly against this idea.

If scum do know

what the items do already then we're heavily shooting ourselves in the foot. I'm convinced Lawrencealot wouldn't allow us to catch scum in this manner.

And what if he can?

This is the second time tajo has role/itemfished, and in a different manner to the first time. Strongly considering moving my vote back onto him.

Am I really doing that, ortolan? Tell me how I am rolefishing and itemfishing. Does it mean that all people that are agreeing with my plan are also rolefishing and itemfishing?
..........
Yeah, PRETTY happy with my vote.

[populartajo]

I don't see anything particularly scummy in the pacman post.

ç
Do you think Shinnen post was scummy?

[populartajo]

First, I want everyone that doesnt have the description of their items in their PMs to step forward, plz.

Ill make a list, feel free to add you to the list.

People with items description

Tajo
Zwet
Qwints
caf19
pacman
Surye

People with no items description

Gorrad
Ace
Shadow Knight

Refusing to

Empking
Ortolan
Shinnen

Still no claim

k7
Cream
Rice
Mora
Dubya

[populartajo]

Now that I think about this, I find it to be a not so good idea. If we assume as true that some roles can't buy items, we will assume that the ones that can are more powerful.

Actually Im not a powerful role but I still can buy items.

FoS : Shinnen

for making weak assumptions and comploting against a very good plan.

First, I want everyone that doesnt have the description of their items in their PMs to step forward, plz.

Ok, you might be right that the items are not only for the powerful roles. But, you're missing something: wanting to people to say if they can't buy items is wanting to give the mafia a list of less power and hence less of a threat players?

What are you talking about?

[populartajo]

Saying who can use and who can't use items just creates a list to the scum of who NOT to kill during nights, as they, likely, represent less of a threat than those players that can actually use items.

And why do you think that all the scum are able to use items?

[populartajo]

Saying who can use and who can't use items just creates a list to the scum of who NOT to kill during nights, as they, likely, represent less of a threat than those players that can actually use items.

And why do you think that all the scum are able to use items?

Excuse, where did I say this?

You think that people that cant use items are town or scum?

[populartajo]

You guys are missing the entire point of my plan.

Right now we have 2 possibilities here. Ill comment as soon as EVERYONE has claimed if they have or dont have the items descriptions here.

I assure you that the result will be the confirmation of at least 4 townies.

[populartajo]

First, I want everyone that doesnt have the description of their items in their PMs to step forward, plz.

Ill make a list, feel free to add you to the list.

People with items description

Tajo
Zwet
Qwints
caf19
pacman
Surye
Moratorium

People with no items description

Gorrad
Ace
Shadow Knight

Refusing to

Empking
Ortolan
Shinnen

Still no claim

k7
Cream
Rice
Dubya

[populartajo]

Everybody seems to be active except for Dubya. I pmed the first person on the replacement list.

This answer your question?

Actually no, since we havent heard of this first person.

[populartajo]

Wait, what?

Law said that he would PM the first person in the replacement list but we havent herad of him/her.

[populartajo]

Rice, plz claim if you have or dont have items descriptions
Did you at least reread everyhting that has been posted?

[populartajo]

When everyone not in the army is dead.

Gorrad is prob town.

[populartajo]

I hate when games stall.

Lawrence, please prod Cream / K7 and any news on the replacement?

[populartajo]

OMG WLC AND OLDGUY.
HAI

[populartajo]

When everyone not in the army is dead.

Gorrad is prob town.

This does not follow, at all.

Can we lynch this guy already?

[populartajo]

Ah, I still think that it's not such of a good idea after all. There must be another way we can confirm town without giving mafia more info than they already have.

Seriously, as I said before, giving more info to the already informed minority is a terrible idea. It's like giving them more weapons to kill us.

What kind of info do you think the mafia have?

[populartajo]

Shinnen and Ace, why are you voting zwet?

[populartajo]

Err, why unfortunately?

[populartajo]

Mod, please prod Cream/Rice and WLC.

I need everyone either refusing or item claiming before we can proceed with the next part of my plan.
Im going to assume K7 is refusing to claim.
SHould I, K7?

[populartajo]

Semioldugy why are you reposting my list if you disagree with my plan?

Mod edit
Visible Votecount

-Shinnen_no_Me (2): Riceballtail, Surye
-Gorrad (2): Empking, ortolan
-zwetschenwasser (2): Shinnen_no_Me, AceMarksman
-Surye (1): zwetschenwasser
-AceMarksman (1): Shadow Knight
-killa seven (1): qwints
-ortolan (1): populartajo

Not voting (7): killa seven, Moratorium, WeyounsLastClone, Cream147, Gorrad, caf19, semioldguy

With 17 alive it takes 9 real votes to lynch.

[populartajo]

I'm currently reading the thread. But I'm best man at a wedding coming Thursday, and still have loads of things to arrange, so I don't know when I can come with a decent analysis.

More stallling of the game.

[populartajo]

People with items description

Tajo
Zwet
Qwints
caf19
semioldguy

pacman

Surye
Moratorium

People with no items description

Gorrad
Ace
Shadow Knight

Refusing to

Empking
Ortolan
Shinnen
K7

Still no claim

Cream (prodded Saturday and hasn't posted since prod)
Rice (Refuses to comply without knowing more)
WLC[/quote]

[populartajo]

Where the hell is Cream?=
Ill post later. Got an awesome new computer and Ill tr some crazy stuff there.

[populartajo]

Kay. Im here. Let me think some before I can come up with the second part of the plan.

For now, please tell me if you agree or disagree with the following pre-plan:

There are two possibilities here:

Possibility 1)Scum have item descriptions in their PMs. Therefore they are in the

People with items descriptions

list along with some people like me and Mora, for example) that are obv town.

I sincerely doubt this is happening since a)People with items description know that if scum know one of the items description it will be likely useless and b) the majority of people in the list feel town.

However this possibility can still exist and there could be some pesky scum lying about having item descriptions so thats why we go to the part 2 of our plan. We question people in the list about the nature of the items. Simple yes or no questions without giving scum too much information.

In the end of this part of the plan, its likely we will have at least a decent number of confirmed townies and a possible lying scum.

Possibility 2)Scum dont have item descriptions in their PMs. Therefore they either are either in

People with no items descriptions

list or in the

refusing to.

list

I think this is the most possible scenario we are facing since we have a decent number of people disagreeing with the plan and a decent number of people not having items descriptions in their PMs. I think we have all our scumgroup in this list.

Now, how did Lawrencelot prevent this from happening? Well, my theory is that he didnt give all town all the item description (thats one of the reasons why we also could have the item letter) so its likely that there are some scum and some townies in the "people with no items description" list.

So, agree/disagree?

[populartajo]

That was hard to read.. please tell me if this is correct..

You think it is most likely that...

Code: Select all

People with items description
Tajo
Zwet
Qwints
caf19
semioldguypacman
Surye
Moratorium
WLC

...these people are mostly if not all town...

Code: Select all

People with no items description
Gorrad
Ace
Shadow Knight
Empking

Refusing to
Ortolan
Shinnen
K7
Cream
Rice

...and these people are a mix of scum and town?

I'm fine with that. There could be exceptions or gambit play, but in general it's a safe enough assumption generally.

Yes. Its a decent start.

[populartajo]

So to recap:

You've managed to slow down day 1 EVEN FURTHER for a plan that you hadn't even THOUGHT THROUGH?!?!

And you came up with:

Some town have item descriptions.
Some town may not have item descriptions.
Some scum may be lying about having item descriptions.

And you propose to test them by asking yes/no questions about items (giving scum a 50/50 shot at being considered confirmed).

I'm gonna go with no, I'm not playing your little game any more. You held up day 1 with a plan that basically did nothing and will continue to do nothing. You came up with the virtual equivalent of polling 20 people about numbers and coming up with:

Some numbers are even.
Some numbers may not be even.
Some odd numbers may be prime.

Congratu-freaking-lations.

I'm actually fighting the urge to vote you right now. The only saving grace is that I don't think scum would have tried to pull that off without having an exit strategy.

Why so negative?
You thought I would find all the scum 100% in day 1?
Add shadowknight to the ortolan scumteam.

[populartajo]

Also, this interchange of ideas has not been zero productive AT ALL. At this point and only analysing reactions to a plan that improves town odds of winning, I think that I have a list of semiconfirmed townies which incluyde the following players:

Town

Moratorium
Zwet
qwints
caf19
Surye
Gorrad

Neutral

Ace
Empking
Shinnen
Cream
Rice

Prob scum

Shinnen
Ortolan
Shadow Knight
K7

[populartajo]

All the scum 100%? No. But if you say you have a plan, have a PLAN. Not the beginnings of a plan that might catch scum if they're lying or unlucky. That's too many ifs. I hate day 1's and that seriously made me feel like you extended it by a week or more.

Whats wrong with a plan that

might

catch scum?

[populartajo]

So, tajo, how do you propose we verify those who've claimed that they have item descriptions?

Im still thinking on it. You have any idea?

[populartajo]

Let me think some before I can come up with the second part of the plan.

Does this not bother anyone else? Did he really just ask us all for information, and then not know what he was going to do with it? Sorry, but this is really anti-town to me.

Also, sorry for not being around much right now, been working on getting my mini up and running.

You guys are being so freaking negative its just not fair.
I know what we are going to do next. We confirm people in the list that has item descriptions.
PAY ATTENTION.

[populartajo]

Neutral

Ace
Empking
Shinnen
Cream
Rice

Prob scum

Shinnen
Ortolan
Shadow Knight
K7

Cream and K7 are basically lurking through the game, why do you have one of them as neutral and the other as prob scum?

K7 is a friend of mine. Its impossible he missed my posts and he talks of other stuff when he logs back. This behavior is even worst than refusing to have item descriptions.
Cream, in the other hand, has not posted in a while and its possible that he is really busy in real life. I liked his first posts.

[populartajo]

All the scum 100%? No. But if you say you have a plan, have a PLAN. Not the beginnings of a plan that might catch scum if they're lying or unlucky. That's too many ifs. I hate day 1's and that seriously made me feel like you extended it by a week or more.

Whats wrong with a plan that

might

catch scum?

Read the whole sentence. It *might* catch scum *if* they're lying or unlucky. You're basing this entire theory on the hope that scum *don't* have enough information to survive. You can put me under whatever category you want, but being annoyed at you for coming up with a half-assed plan that did nothing but point out several people that can buy items.

Propose a better plan.
Okthxbay.

[populartajo]

All the scum 100%? No. But if you say you have a plan, have a PLAN. Not the beginnings of a plan that might catch scum if they're lying or unlucky. That's too many ifs. I hate day 1's and that seriously made me feel like you extended it by a week or more.

Whats wrong with a plan that

might

catch scum?

Read the whole sentence. It *might* catch scum *if* they're lying or unlucky. You're basing this entire theory on the hope that scum *don't* have enough information to survive. You can put me under whatever category you want, but being annoyed at you for coming up with a half-assed plan that did nothing but point out several people that can buy items.

And what about if scum dont have enough information to survive?
Why are you so against a plan that at least

might

get some scum.
WHY?

[populartajo]

I actually like pop tajo's plan, but we need to make sure there isn't any scum hiding in the upper list. We need a way to quiz every single person on that list without revealing anything to the scum.

Law: would tajo's letter naming plan get a modkill?

I might have to say I think there are more scum in the "don't have item descriptions" list than in the "refusing to" list. So, I propose we
1)figure out a way (that won't get us modkilled or reveal information) to test the "have item description" people. Lynch those who fail unless law out thought us somehow.
2)lynch the scummiest player from the "does not have item descriptions" list.
3)lynch the scummiest player from the "refuses" list.

opinions?

This is a good suggestion. But first we need to confirm if we can trust enough people in the "I have items description" list. Id like everyone to check in and comment before proceding with the next step of the plan.

In the meanwhile, ortolan still needs to die.

[populartajo]

But first we need to confirm if we can trust enough people in the "I have items description" list

This is why step 1 is there.

KK
Who do you think is scum?

[populartajo]

We know that. We can still ask questions.
Semioldguy, what is your opinion of all that has been talked?

[populartajo]

I have an idea. What about if every player of the "I have items description" list prepares a question for another player in the list?
That way we have another way to test.

[populartajo]

I think that most of the people in the claiming to have items list are town. I don't think yes/no questions are the best way to go about trying to catch someone. We can still come up with other questions that don't have yes/no answer and wouldn't completely reveal how the items work.

Also tajo, you omitted me from any part your list.

Ok, you are neutral.
But why did you oppose to the plan at first ?

[populartajo]

@tajo- why is ortolan scum again? I forgot while waiting for this dude to gather tons of information for the scum to make kill lists from because he had a great plan to

help

produce scum.

OMG, this guy.
You think Im scum?

[populartajo]

Have I voted you yet? No. But I am allowed to express my displeasure about this until/unless you catch us a scum. I'll be happy to apologize at that point.

Then cooperate.
And that was not the answer I made.
You think I am scum, town, neutral?

[populartajo]

instead of "answer I made" it should say "question I asked".

[populartajo]

I'd still like you to answer why ortolan is scum though.

Reread your posts and tell me what do you think of him.

[populartajo]

*"his posts" instead of "your posts",

[populartajo]

The most obvious questions are the costs of the items. We can ask at least 4 different costs.

[populartajo]

No more questions, zwet. Dont be stupid.

However, I think that the players with the item description know now that zwet and Mora both have item descriptions.

[populartajo]

Okay, so here we have a list.

People with items description

Tajo

Zwet

Qwints
caf19
semioldguy
Surye

Moratorium

WLC


If for some reason, someone thinks that Im not confirmed player with items description, you are free to ask me a question.

So, I think these are good questions.

Qwints - give me the cost of the green sheel
caf19 - give me the cost of the red shell
semioldguy - give me the cost of the poison mushroom
Surye - give me the cost of the bomb
WLC - how many items cant be redirected?

[populartajo]

Instead of asking about absolute item values, maybe questions could be about relative item values? (eg. 'out of these two items, which costs more and by how much'). Could avoid the problem Mora pointed out in 462.

Or I could just answer my question already, if people want.

This is a good idea.

[populartajo]

And for the love of god, when people start answering the questions, can everyone just listen to the answers and make personal notes on who is confirmed and who isn't and not go "WOW SO-AND-SO, YOU GOT THE CORRECT ANSWER HURF DURF."

- Let everyone answer, make no comments on the answer.
- Once everyone is done answering, TAJO ONLY will pick out one person who is wrong.
- Vote that person away.

Don't fucking give up the whole fucking cow.

Sorry for my attitude, but FUCKING ZWETS PISSES ME OFF.

I agree.

[populartajo]

First question of the night.

Drumroll

qwints

, out of these two items:

green shell and red shell

, which costs more and by how?

[populartajo]

Kay, we'll ask if people more about the item descriptions if and only if we find someone is lying about pricing or we have this case of different roles having different prices.

At the end, the idea was not to give scum a lot of information, only the necessary. Costs is perfect with this.

Gorrad. I really doubt the prices are the same.

[populartajo]

Okay, so here we have a list.

People with items description

Tajo

Zwet

Qwints

caf19
semioldguy
Surye

Moratorium

WLC

Next contestant on the price is right!

Audience cheers.

Drumroll

Audience silences

caf19

- out of these two items:

green shell and poison mushroom

, which costs more and by how?[/quote]

[populartajo]

@ortolan- which is great until one of us with no item descriptions is up for lynch. Then what?

So, shadow any comments of ortolan?

[populartajo]

People that really have item descriptions.

[populartajo]

what exactly are you talking about?

[populartajo]

oh oh i see.
my bad.

[populartajo]

As I said, anyone suspecting me of lying is free to ask me any question.

[populartajo]

And maybe I have a question for 'tajo:

How many extra words does the description of the second bowser's castle item have compared to the first? (you may count the word with the ' in it as one word)

I think answering that question might warrant a mod-kill.

I agree. WLC, you definitely can think in another question.

[populartajo]

I've noticed something about your play, ort. In all the other games i've seen you in, your posts are very long and post large and well thought-out cases. Here, you're lurking and not making an effort to make a case. I find this suspicious.

Good catch.

Even more, I believe Shadow and Ortolan decided to bus in a very nice way.

Law, Shinnen has dissapeared from the site. Plz, replace her and Cream.

[populartajo]

You should be commending me for voting a scumbag and joining the wagon, not bringing in a shallow and incorrect meta argument.

1) This is laden with AtE
2) Your vote was OMGUS.
3) The meta argument is valid.

unvote, Vote: ortolan

Vote above will remain until tajo's plan catches us some scum, which, I'm feeling, will probably include ortolan.

Dude get with the times, my

plan

already catched ortolan.

Everybody that is saying that my plan is preventing town from scumhunting is blatantly lying.

Protown players should already have a list of more probable townies and more probable scum.

[populartajo]

While this is the main focus of the game

there's not much else to do now

is there (although I will admit being busy has also impacted on my ability to contribute to this and other games).

Obv not scumhunting.
If I were a townie with no item descriptions, Ill be rereading the thread to evaluate reactions, thinlking who feels more town and such.
What does ortolan do?
Complot against the plan.
I think ortolan is a extremely healthy D1 lynch. I can go with shadowknight too.

[populartajo]

Dude get with the times, my plan already

catched

caught

ortolan

Fixed for my sanity.

How did the plan catch ort?

Hehehehe.
There are two parts of my plan.

The implicit part and the explicit part.

The explicit part (which is what we are doing now) evaluates people's alignment with facts, confirmation of item descriptions and such.

The implicat part evaluates people in a more "mafia" way. That means that we have to evaluate reactions to the current situations. With that part of the plan I think ort is very likely scum and that Mora is very likely town.

After all, we are playing mafia, right?

[populartajo]

I think we should at least go through those with item descriptions today, then we can lynch at will.

I agree.

[populartajo]

Semiolduy, your questions give too much information to the scum.
Think in another one.

[populartajo]

Okay, so here we have a list.

People that have already answered questions

Tajo
Zwet

Qwints

caf19

semioldguy
Surye
Moratorium

WLC

Next contestant on the price is right!

Audience cheers.

Drumroll

Audience silences

semioldguy

- out of these two items:

green shell and bob-omb

, which costs more and by how?

[/quote]

[populartajo]

You all realize (and specialy smeiodlguy) that if we give absolute answers, scum can deduce all the costs of the items, right?

There is a big difference with giving scum only relative answers since we are effectively giving them two variables instead of one.

If everyone agrees on me goiving an absolute answer, I all for it. But the basic idea of all this was to avoid giving scum the major amount of information, which is what giving absolute numbers does.

More importantly, why am I getting SHIT for implementing in a method that was suggeest for another player? And even more, why I am gettin SHIT for aparently trying to reduce the number of questions when right now I can think in more questions that are not reduced to costing?

Semioldguy really is trying to make me look bad with no BASIS at all-.
In the meantie, I can answer any question that doesnt involve ABSOLUTE answers.

God, you people.

[populartajo]

Look at my title. It rocks!

Which question should I answer?

[populartajo]

Tajo... can you please answer my question:

What made you think that my questions revealed too much information but that your question to me did not when they revealed the same information?

Do you understand the difference betwwen relative values and absolute values?

In numeric ways:

An answer of this type: a+b=30 means scum will never know exactly which is the value of "a" and "b". That is the case of questions like: of these two items which has the highest cost and by how.

An answer of this type a=20, means scum will know the value of "a" and ALL the values related to a, using only simple math. That is the case of questions like: give me the cost of the item bomb-omb.

God, whats wrong with you?

[populartajo]

Which of the following can trigger the Bob-omb:
a. First person you give it to No
b. Number of times given No
c. Triggered by voting No
d. Holding or not holding another item No
e Passing it to certain player(s) No
f. Time elapsed No
g. Number of players passed to Yes
h. Bob-omb cannot be triggered (only used) No
i. None of the above

[populartajo]

Pfft, I answered your bomb question.
Next.

[populartajo]

So that you shut up and stop wasting time writijng shit about me, here is some nice information for you:

Items ordered :

Gren shell - even cost
Bob-omb - odd cost
Red shell - even cost
Posion Shroom -. even cost

So NOW can we stop giving mafia more information than they need?

[populartajo]

I know you did... and that's why my vote is staying on you.

So my answer about that the bomb item triggers when is passed a definite number of times is a lie?
Read your PM.

[populartajo]

The poison shroom costs 10 coins.
NOW SHUT THE FUCK UP.

[populartajo]

I did read my PM, and G is not the right answer to my question.

This is strange because in my PM, it explicetely says that the bomb triggers when a)this item is traded "x" times. and b)a reason I dont think scum should know.

[populartajo]

The poison shroom costs 10 coins.
NOW SHUT THE FUCK UP.

This also can be deduced by the answers given already.

Prove it.

[populartajo]

Retarded people make me go crazy.

[populartajo]

Answer G was "number of players passed to".
How this is not related to the number of times this item is traded?

Gosh, do you think?

[populartajo]

I'm a little wary about the way these questions are being asked. We may end up leaving someone with an algebra problem to solve to get the question right.

Prophecy.

In the hopes we got retarded scum, our friend oldguy already made the job for them.
Sigh..

[populartajo]

Kay, my first language isnt English so I probabaly confused answer b with answer g.

[populartajo]

I did read my PM, and G is not the right answer to my question.

This is strange because in my PM, it explicetely says that the bomb triggers when a)this item is traded "x" times. and b)a reason I dont think scum should know.

I think THIS prove that I REALLY have the item bob-omb.

[populartajo]

I did read my PM, and G is not the right answer to my question.

This is strange because in my PM, it explicetely says that the bomb triggers when a)this item is traded "x" times. and b)a reason I dont think scum should know.

I think THIS prove that I REALLY have the item bob-omb.

[populartajo]

I can give you the reason scum shouldnt know but that would be too much information for scum.

[populartajo]

No, don't, I hadn't noticed this post.

Kay.
So can we go back to where we were?
I think all the people in the I have items list is confirmed having them, right?

[populartajo]

I did read my PM, and G is not the right answer to my question.

This is strange because in my PM, it explicetely says that the bomb triggers when a)this item is traded "x" times. and b)a reason I dont think scum should know.

I think THIS prove that I REALLY have the item bob-omb.

Unvote

You owe me an apology, duck.

[populartajo]

unvote

waiting on Surye.

What's our next step?

The next step is apologizing with the guy that suggested the plan.

[populartajo]

We were both to blame for that, it was not just one of our faults. I don't think any of us should apologize though as we are all making our best efforts to catch scum. If we see something we should press the issue because it could catch scum. If the positions were reversed I would expect the same from you.

Mod: can we get a Prod on Surye?

He hasn't posted in six days.

Yes you should apologize because you thought I was scum for retarded reasons.
You should apologize because you distracted the attention of things we should be aiming to.
You should apologize because I am giving my best effort to win this for the town and the first thing you think is I who thought of the plan to catch scum, is scum.
You should apologize because in the case we got retarded scum, you just did all the job for them.
You should apologize because you are making me lose my time defending myself when Im obv town.

Should I continue?

[populartajo]

Law, we need to prod/replace Surye.
I would like to know if you are already searching a replacement for Shinnen and Cream.

[populartajo]

Its a game but he made a mistake.

Therefore he should apologize.

[populartajo]

EBWOP
I would if I had made the same mistake.

[populartajo]

Not to be the voice of impending doom, but I have an inkling that poptajo is about to get modkilled for that revelation post earlier.

You want me to get modkilled, why?

[populartajo]

While this is the main focus of the game

there's not much else to do now

is there (although I will admit being busy has also impacted on my ability to contribute to this and other games).

Obv not scumhunting.
If I were a townie with no item descriptions, Ill be rereading the thread to evaluate reactions, thinlking who feels more town and such.
What does ortolan do?
Complot against the plan.
I think ortolan is a extremely healthy D1 lynch. I can go with shadowknight too.

1) When did I say I had no item descriptions?

2) I am scumhunting. I am voting scum (ShadowKnight), if you didn't notice.

3) What are your reasons for wanting me (or ShadowKnight???) lynched?

The implicat part evaluates people in a more "mafia" way. That means that we have to evaluate reactions to the current situations. With that part of the plan I think ort is very likely scum and that Mora is very likely town.

After all, we are playing mafia, right?

I'm sorry, I forgot that opposing a mass-claim is a 100% accurate scum-tell.

I think our next step should be killing off the non-list player who has been drawing the most suspicion. If I'm not mistaken, that person is ortolan, right?

*Yawn*

You are saying you have item descriptions?

[populartajo]

I do have a bit of meta-info that pt has a habit of trying to break mechanics/ask for mass-claims in several games, so I'm not necessarily positing it as a scum-tell here. I am of the opinion that this whole exercise was quite a waste of time however. The idea of lynching from the non-claimed-items group relies on the assumption that firstly scum don't know the item descriptions, and secondly that the strongest town power-roles are more and not less likely to be able to buy items. Neither of these are wise to make at all.

Fail.
Why do people think that this was a waste of time when we have TONS of reactions?
Ortolan, if you are town, I suggest you analyse these reactions Im telling you and come up with a good case other than OMGUS.

[populartajo]

This is also pretty clear. Either all scum have item descriptions or either they dont.

That means that if scum have item descriptions, that means that they are prob all in the I have item descriptions list or that they are prob all in the I dont have item descriptions list or I refuse to.

The fact that we have items that become useless when scum knows how they work, means that its more prob that scum DONT have item descriptions.

Therefore, its safe to assume that only Bowser's Army have item descriptions in their PMs. Which at the same time means, that people not in the Bowser's Army dont have item descriptions in their PMs.

Now,. ortolan lynch gogogogogogogo.

[populartajo]

Zeenon and Surye, please tell us your first impressions of the game as soon as you can.

[populartajo]

Not to be the voice of impending doom, but I have an inkling that poptajo is about to get modkilled for that revelation post earlier.

You want me to get modkilled, why?

Nice misrep.

No it isnt,
If you are town and if you thought I could get modkilled for that then you dont post that in the hopes of Law or scum not noticing it.

[populartajo]

Nope. You are scum. I want you lynched or modkilled, and I could not care less how or when.

Woah.
I am scum WHY?

[populartajo]

Looker, why one of ortolan and Shadow is scum?

Also, did you reread all the game?

You have item descriptions in your PM?

[populartajo]

Because I think you're scum.

No, no.

Give me a reason.

Now.

[populartajo]

Actually I think oldguy is town. Not so intelligent but town.

[populartajo]

zwet and ort are both scum, with a side of either SK or semioldguy.

Why you think oldugy is scum?

[populartajo]

Because I think you're scum.

No, no.

Give me a reason.

Now.

[populartajo]

zwet and ort are both scum, with a side of either SK or semioldguy.

Why you think oldugy is scum?

this.

[populartajo]

^Mmm, well talk once you finish reading the whole game.

In the meantime, which is your algnment and do you have item descriptions on your PM?

This is a question only reading your PM will tell so I expect an answer in short time.

[populartajo]

That was exactly was I going to say, caf.

New world record : Shinnen (looker)is also scum.

GG.

[populartajo]

yes, i understand this; however, it would be kind of...tactless for me to read off something from my role pm when i don't understand the full mechanics of the game. ill get back to you after i read the entire thread, tajo...

If you dont want to drag suspicions, please answer this asap.

[populartajo]

Me thinks that Looker panicked and tried to clear himself by inmediately busing one of the ortolan-Shadow Knight group, if not both.

I called it here first.

[populartajo]

Why did the ortolan-Shadow Knight situation was the first thing you commented of?

[populartajo]

Um... poptajo flipped out at random questions, then did a 180 and fumingly answered a specific question. Blatant contradiction = scum

Facepalm.

[populartajo]

O! Ok. Because they're the ones with the most votes and the most activity. I don't see anybody talking about empking right now, or surye, or you.

Most activity, WTF?

And not so many pages ago, there was a joke of a wagon starting to form against me.

All I say is that its really strange that your first post of the game is a comment of this situation when there are more important things to do here, specially the ones uyou are refusing to comment.

[populartajo]

Interesting defense, poptajo. I'm going to have to remember that for later...

What about this defense?
THINK BEFORE YOU POST.

Mod edit
Visible Votecount

-ortolan (4): populartajo, Shadow Knight, AceMarksman, zwetschenwasser
-Shadow Knight (4): Moratorium, ortolan, Looker, qwints
-Shinnen_no_Me (2): Riceballtail, ZEEnon
-Gorrad (1): Empking

Not voting (6): killa seven, WeyounsLastClone, Cream147, Gorrad, caf19, semioldguy

With 17 alive it takes 9 real votes to lynch. Deadline: May 4th 2009.

[populartajo]

Also, I think ortolan has been more honest in his intentions than ShadowKnight.

Id like to know why you think this.

[populartajo]

Also, qwints, assume for a second Shinnen is scum and reread all the posts you quoted.

Tell me your reasoning after that.

[populartajo]

Interesting defense, poptajo. I'm going to have to remember that for later...

What about this defense?
THINK BEFORE YOU POST.

I don't consider responding with a *facepalm* thinking before posting.

I wasnt talking about me, ya know?

[populartajo]

how egotistical! you're not the most popular individual in this game, tajo. how many votes are on you?

hey god, you shouldnt be reading this game right now?

[populartajo]

I assume Looker has finished rereading the thread.

Now, answer.

[populartajo]

Seeing as we're approaching deadline and I seem to have 5 votes on me, you may ask me a question about the items, I do in fact have the descriptions and have no intention of being another deadline lynch driven by scum as per Election Mafia. I will note that populartajo has effectively prevented any genuine attempt at scum-hunting today with his "plan".

Ive already said that my plan doesnt prevent scumhunting AT ALL.
There are tons of reactions to analyse and in fact there are already some people voting some people for reactions to this plan.
So, nice lie.

[populartajo]

I will also note that if populartajo continues to suspect me after I correctly answer a question about the items, this will amount to an acknowledgement that his plan was useless to begin with (because this will imply that, I, as scum, in fact do have the descriptions, and this method is totally ineffective at distinguishing town from scum).

Hey, Einstein, if you have a correct answer that doesnt mean Im scum. That means that you also have item descriptions in your PM. And therefore the plan IS NOT useless as its likely to prevent your lynch.
Fail x2.

[populartajo]

Ort, how about you answer this question.

This is strange because in my PM, it explicetely says that the bomb triggers when a)this item is traded "x" times. and b)a reason I dont think scum should know.

What is the value of "x"?

[populartajo]

Kay, kay but I really dont think scum will be eager to play with bombs now that they know it triggers in a definitine number of iterations.

Think in another one.

[populartajo]

Anybody ask ortolan other question since Im obviously biased towards him.

[populartajo]

There are scummier people than SK right now, quints.

Impress me.

[populartajo]

You, for example.

Only me?

[populartajo]

There are a few other mildly scummy people.

Impress me.

[populartajo]

two

That's not what I make it. Either you are scum or misunderstood the question, which is possible because it is slightly open to interpretation. Perhaps this will help: Is the poison shroom one of the 'two' in your answer?

If you're going to ask the questions you should definitely pay more attention and avoid coming up with ambiguous ones. The poison shroom is not one, however if you read the text of the first and second items, the text of the second item implies that this applies to the first item (as well as the last one)

Please can you be more concise and less ambiguous?
Can we ask him another question?

[populartajo]

Mora, you think Ortolan answered good enough?

IMO, the questions and the answers were ambigous enough to get a definite read of him.

Let me think in a question.

And for the record, Im willing to lynch Shadow Knight and Looker.

Even more, where the hell is this guy?

[populartajo]

Mora, you think Ortolan answered good enough?

Probably not. But there are negative consequences to asking item questions.

There aren't a lot of negative consequences to evaluating existing bandwagons.

I agree and I encorage everyone to do this and stop saying my plan prevented scumhunting because it didnt.

-ortolan (5): populartajo, Shadow Knight, AceMarksman, zwetschenwasser, Gorrad
-Shadow Knight (5): Moratorium, ortolan, Looker, qwints, semioldguy

Mora, you think one of these guys is scum and the other is town?

[populartajo]

-ortolan (5): populartajo, Shadow Knight, AceMarksman, zwetschenwasser, Gorrad
-Shadow Knight (5): Moratorium, ortolan, Looker, qwints, semioldguy

Mora, you think one of these guys is scum and the other is town?

I haven't ruled it out.

You suggested one wagon was scumdriven, right?

If you are haopoy with your vote, that means that you think ortolan is a scum-driven wagon, right?

Mod edit
Visible Votecount

-ortolan (5): populartajo, Shadow Knight, AceMarksman, zwetschenwasser, Gorrad
-Shadow Knight (5): Moratorium, ortolan, Looker, qwints, semioldguy
-Looker (1): caf19
-Gorrad (1): Empking

Not voting (5): killa seven, WeyounsLastClone, Cream147, ZEEnon, Riceballtail

With 17 alive it takes 9 real votes to lynch. Deadline: May 4th 2009.

[populartajo]

-ortolan (5): populartajo, Shadow Knight, AceMarksman, zwetschenwasser, Gorrad
-Shadow Knight (5): Moratorium, ortolan, Looker, qwints, semioldguy

Mora, you think one of these guys is scum and the other is town?

I haven't ruled it out.

You suggested one wagon was scumdriven, right?

If you are haopoy with your vote, that means that you think ortolan is a scum-driven wagon, right?

Yes, that's what I said here...

When I look at the ortolan wagon, I see three votes from people I'm not confident in.

I assume SK, zwet and Gorrad?

[populartajo]

Is Ort right?

I hate self-quoting... What do you mean with this question?

I meant was Ort right.

Unvote

Vote: Ort

Wait what?

[populartajo]

If you say that one version of an item cannot be redirected, then this implies that the other version can

Some people very much need grey matter, or need to stop being scum, and unvote me.

No need to be a douchebag.

Unvote

You are going to send me a letter tonight with the value of "x" where "x" is the times the bomb can be passed without triggering. Everyone agrees with this?

[populartajo]

Vote : ShadowKnight

[populartajo]

Also, SK you might consider claiming since we dont know how many votes you REALLY have and you could be close to a lynch.

[populartajo]

I think the correct answer is 3 but I agree that the question is ambiguous.

And, dont be a douchebag, ortolan. Not all the people voting for you are scum or retarded. First, you refused to colaborate with a plan that is improving the town's odds of winning. You thought I was scum for that. How does that work?

Now you joined opur plan to prevent your lynch. You NOW are going to work under our rules.

[populartajo]

Please post a pic.

[populartajo]

No, I'm not, and stop being blatantly scummy and trying to waste my coins when I've proven I have the item descriptions or I'll vote you.

Ill give you a coin if you are worried about coins.
And Im not being scummy, Im just trying to confirm you.
The answers you gave are wrong.

[populartajo]

f. Time elapsed Yes

WTF?

[populartajo]

Unvote.

[populartajo]

Plz post your pic using the image tags. Right click in the image you have in your PM. Copy the URL and then paste it between these tags.

[populartajo]

That sounds suspiciously like quoting my role PM.

@Mod- Am I allowed to do as tajo is asking without being modkilled?

No it doesnt but Ill let Law decide that. Its like claiming your role name.

[populartajo]

You are right, my bad.

Take in count that scum got fakeclaims in the another game.

Until now, Im leaning to believe the claim for flavor reasons.

Back to

Vote : Looker.

[populartajo]

Take in count that scum got fakeclaims in the another game.

Until now, Im leaning to believe the claim for flavor reasons.

What makes you think scum wouldn't have fake claims in this game. If that's the case, why would flavor clear SK?

I think scum have fakeclaims in this game also. When did I say they didnt?

And I think the flavor clears SK. It feels a belieavable role (almost a generic role with protection) and not one coming from a fakeclaim, since those usually are a little more elaborate.

[populartajo]

I can hold an item, but (at this time) I can't purchase any. My only ability is that I'll survive the first kill an invader makes on me although some attacks will kill me outright. I'd rather not disclose that part, thanks.

What do you mean with "at this time"?

[populartajo]

SK isn't town. Bowser's Castle players w/o item description can't use items, even if they are given to them.

I would like this information confirmed by Gorrad and who was the other guy that couldnt hold items?

[populartajo]

You know how the item letter and the 10-coins block work?