Newbie 838 (Game Over!)

[My Milked Eek]

/confirm

[My Milked Eek]

And that's everyone if I counted correctly.

[start copy paste]
Hi, I'm My Milked Eek and I'm your IC. I'm here to show you the ropes and to help you get acquainted to the rules of Mafia and the flow of the game as played on mafiascum.net.

Being an IC doesn't mean I'm better at this game, nor does it mean I tell absolute truths when

playing

the game. I will be honest when

explaining

rules and tactics. This means I have two roles in this game: the role I got from the moderator and the role of IC as outlined in this article.

If you're confused about anything in the game, do not hesitate to address me. After all, that's why I'm here.

>> Links

• Logical Fallacies

I'd link to the newbie guide and such, but the mod has taken the liberty to do that already, so I'll only provide the above link. It's a bit more advanced than the links already provided and is by no means necessary literature, but it's a very convenient site to improve your logic skills and also a very interesting read. I suggest checking it out during the course of the game.


This being said, good luck to all and enjoy your game.

[My Milked Eek]

Hey, MME, which of the following type of IC are you:

one that prefers the RVS

or

one that prefers asking questions instead of the RVS

Why do you prefer one over the other?

And if you prefer the RVS, why not start us off?

I'm a player who prefers a short rvs. Preferably a post or 5-7. I usually spot something off in the first page and go from there. Asking questions, as you are doing now, feels a bit awkward and forced imo and an outdrawn rvs feels even more awkward. Blame my first game here which had a one post rvs.

And I didn't start because I grabbed a shower and fell asleep right after dinner.

[My Milked Eek]

and on that note:

vote: purple princess

because peach is pink!

Ok, so first you ask me what I think of the RVS, right?
By this you are trying (or so I perceive) to not have an RVS. Correct?
Why are you random voting?

Vote: RayFrost

Can I just ask everybody, what sort of expeience you have at playing Mafia?

Sure.

17 finished games.
Of which I won 10, 1 got abandoned and I lost 6 games.

[My Milked Eek]

I understand. What is your opinion on the RVS? I see you've finished one game and I doubt all the ongoings (don't talk too much about it or go into more detail than this) are in the RVS right now, so, any opinion on the RVS?

Also, is that a wig the bird in your avatar is wearing?

[My Milked Eek]

So if you have made the same assumptions as me, it means that:
1. It is impossible for a townie to intentionally end the rvs. Ending the rvs requires information that presumably no townie has, unless/until a mafia slips up.

Have to disagree with you there. Townies can unintentionally end the RVS, sure. But they can just as well end the RVS, there are some ways to do that. This leads me to the last line of the quoted selection: not every slip up is from a mafia.

2. The RVS is not guaranteed to produce any useful information. Because the rvs only ends when useful information is known, this means the rvs might never end. Someone else once joked (which I take somewhat more seriously) about how the rvs usually ends in lylo.

There is more information to be gained from the RVS than one would assume from a quick readthrough. Let me see if I can dig an example out of my finished games.

3. I've seen people in other games advocate a no lynch to give the power roles time to do something. But if there AREN'T any power roles (which is possible in the current setup), then a no-lynch is just a disaster that accomplishes nothing. Which basically means that there's no choice. Either sit here and do nothing and getting picked off one by one, or continuing and hoping the scum make a mistake.

First off, I know you're not doing it and I'm just saying as a general advice to everyone, do not speculate about power roles (or the setup for that matter) on D1 or D2 until more is known about the setup.

So come on, you scum out there. Start making mistakes so we can lynch you.

Not liking this.

To me, this line is so wifomy I would never say something like this.

Yes, tell us why that line is wifom.


Also a mini-v/la announcement. Going camping tonight in the woods. Obviously no Internet connection. Expect me back on Monday. Tuesday the latest.

[My Milked Eek]

Going to post tonight
The vla expanded until last night, sorry.

[My Milked Eek]

Let me see if I can dig an example out of my finished games.

yes please do; experience from previous games is always a good thing.

I'll hold off on responding to the rest of your RVS argument till then, since getting an actual example of a town ending the RVS would be way more clear than trying to argue about whether it's possible or how it could be done.

It's one of my newbies I IC'd, I'll get to it later because I need to catch up in some topics.

"ending the rvs"? What are you talking about?

Reasons for not posting:

no idea where to go from here

waiting on the MME/shark debate

I've got nothing to add ._."

Our little "debate" appears to be nothing more than a theory discussion. I see no need to wait for it.

Happy with my vote.

The only thing that really sticks out to me as suspicious is rusty's line about scum making mistakes. I think Echo put it best when he said that's one of those lines that scum would say to make themselves seem increidbly pro-town. But it's also such a small thing that if rusty doesn't give us more scumtells, he won't even be a suspect.

I agree, but as of yet, it's one of the few things we have to go on.

Also, seeing echo's comment that way, it would be a WIFOM argument by echo, which is pointless. Also, the comment itself would not be WIFOM. It

would

be suspicious, though.

Not following, don't you mean rusty?

MME: are you happy that the RVS seems to have finished so quickly, and that people are posting?

This is not quickly, especially not since the game has been moving slower than a snail on weed. Can I ask you what the point of this question is?

unvote

not rvs anymore, so yeah.

I don't like posts and unvotes like these.

Ive played a few times on another forum.

Hi. Perhaps you could post something of more relevance. Comment on rusty, echo and ray please.

[My Milked Eek]

Aww, voted already.

I just had nothing to say really, figured I'd post when I got something.

In any case, I might as well <b>unvote</b>.

I guess she was watching. Any reason to your lurking?

[My Milked Eek]

@ Echo & My Milked Eek; What is your opinion on lurkers? are they always scum?

No, they're not always scum. Obviously. But they should be dealt with either way.

I guess she was watching. Any reason to your lurking?

like I said, didn't really have anything to say.. figured I'd wait till a conversation I can partake in starts.

Instead of waiting for others to do the job, why not participate and make it easier for us?

That's because that's exactly what it is. She didn't post for close to five days, and within a couple of hours of having gotten a vote she shows up. That's classic lurking, and my vote sticks.

@Crunchi, why did you unvote PP? It seems like a gesture to garner goodwill.

I unvoted because I find random voting to be pointless, I only did it because.
Uh, no point in having a vote just because I dislike her icon though.. =/

It is not entirely pointless. And I don't like the unvote either for the context of the unvote as pointed out by startransmission.

Unvote. Vote: Crunchi

[My Milked Eek]

Instead of waiting for others to do the job, why not participate and make it easier for us?

Because it's easier for me.

Awesome. Realize that this is a team based game.

It is not entirely pointless. And I don't like the unvote either for the context of the unvote as pointed out by startransmission.

Unvote. Vote: Crunchi

But I don't really suspect PP of being mafia, I only voted to be part of the rvs, I'd rather keep my vote off until I find someone.

(1)

rustyshark's

"So come on, you scum out there. Start making mistakes so we can lynch you."

made me think he might be, but then a big deal was made out of it and it lost it's sparkle.

(2)

startransmission seems to turn everything scum related, which makes it seem like he's scum, but maybe he's just being active.

(3)

Up till now I see no reason for purple princess, therefore no reason to keep a vote made randomly.

1) you don't have suspects
2) you had a suspect, but it died and judging the wording you used, you were around when he made that post. Why did you not chip in if you found it suspicious?
3) you had another suspect, but he

might

be active

A few notes 'n questions:
- you're in this game, play it or just read it
- were you around when sharky made that post? if so, why not chip in?

[My Milked Eek]

Chainsaw Defense is:

defending another player by attacking his/her attacker.


Thus, yes, Rusty is chainsaw defending crunchi. It cannot be more clear cut and obvious than this.

[My Milked Eek]

^the nuance with your post, ray, is that it doesn't need to be the partner that is defended.

Forgot to note that.

[My Milked Eek]

Carrick, can you give your opinion on crunchi? And startransmission.

[My Milked Eek]

Crunchi - Seems to have an attitude or could just be someone easily unsettled, looking at crunchis responses to accusations of being a lurker.

Unsettled?
And do you agree with the lurker comments?

My vote from earlier was Ray Frost.

I would llike to

unvote

Any reason to it?

[My Milked Eek]

I'm not attacking startransmission for attacking Crunchi, I'm attacking him for his assumption that lurkers are automatically scum. Crunchi just happened to be who he was going after.

I do not recall him saying that. I do recall him trying to apply pressure and get the game started. If this is on the "back" of a lurker, so be it.

Probably the best proof of what I'm saying is that startransmission himself replaced someone who barely posted anything at all - clearly the amount posted is determined by the person doing the posting more than the role they have.

star replaced for someone who didn't post iirc. That person obviously lost interest or something else came up or whatever. Where I'm going to with this is that the replaced player unintentionally lurked/flaked and as such was replaced and that crunchi intentionally lurked and even admitted to it.

Also something has come up unexpectedly and I've asked to be replaced; I'll try to respond to stuff for the next day or so if anyone has any unsaid points.

I hope it's nothing too grave and I hope to see you in another game. Take care.

[My Milked Eek]

>> pp

I'd like an opinion on:
- crunchi and her play.
- startransmissions attack on crunchi
- rustys attack on startransmission

[My Milked Eek]

They're not getting replaced they need

prods, mod

.

[My Milked Eek]

Oh.

[My Milked Eek]

Welcome tubby and blueraven. Thanks for replacing

Raven, who are you replacing?

[My Milked Eek]

Perhaps a quick readthrough from both of you while we wait on that? The thread isn't that long and isn't filled with too much content.

[My Milked Eek]

read through, first 2 pages are just RVS, and whats with (in page 3 i think) active = scum? i mean, it should be the other way round shouldnt it? People could just be over eger...

Could you quote or link to the posts that make your radar ping?

Quick read finished, getting slight scum read from Crunchi from the lurking, other than that not much at all.

Same questions as before:
- startransmission vs crunchi
- rusty vs startransmission

And I like playing as both. I prefer a powerless role both as town as scum.

[My Milked Eek]

ok lurking or over activeness are null tell to me in newbie games. Unless that it is that the player in question is not a newb and has some type of meta one way or the other.

They are null tells but it doesn't hurt to try and pressure lurkers into activity. It failed apparently.

[My Milked Eek]

Ray you pointed out something i noticed aswell, the attempt and fail of putting a

strikeout

through your name instead of sharks. Was going to post about it but i just left it

Just done ISO read on who i replaced and noticed he voted starttransmission. because i dont have anything against him at the moment in going to go ahead and

unvote

if im posting too much just tell me and i will be quiet

Hi. Something more useful to bring to the table?

[My Milked Eek]

To the town, you mean?

[My Milked Eek]

To the town, you mean?

how would u know who town are? The only way to know that, this early on, is to be scum your self!

FoS My Milked EEk

to early to tell atm, we shall have to wait and see...

"by the town" I meant: Do you mean he's buddying up to the entire town by asking that question? The question I was talking about being "if im posting too much just tell me and i will be quiet". This question can be perceived as buddying up to the entire town.

[My Milked Eek]

MME your confusing me now. First what do you mean by "something more useful to the table"? Also when you reply to BlueRaven saying "to the town, you mean", whats that all about?

The two posts that I referenced/quoted were of little content and yet you were afraid to appear too active as said by:

"if im posting too much just tell me and i will be quiet"

Why are you so afraid of us not approving your activity?

[My Milked Eek]

Hi, I'm replacing Crunchi. I have a schnitzel night coming up but I'll have a post up soonish.

Lol, most random reason to postpone a read/post I've heard so far.

Welcome.

And >_< 4 replacements in 2-3 days is a bit "eh".

Think i'll go for the Crunchi/PorkchopExpress vote , before he/she got replaced the behaviour was questionable.

Extremely little to go on so far, but there you go I guess.

Jumping on the wagon, but not really are you? If you want to vote crunchi/porkchop then why aren't you?

comfortable leaving my vote where it is for now.

My gut tells me the same thing, but I'm going to ask you for some details.

Or perhaps not, I'll reread first and then I'll see if my gut is just on Blue.

Mod: I think you have me and Crunchi confused. I don't think I have 3 votes against me, at least I hope not...

I missed blueraven's unvote otherwise the count is accurate.

Any reason you stopped posting content?

comfortable leaving my vote where it is for now.

i believe that is called active lurking...

Really now? Do you know what active lurking is?

Going to do a quick reread. I feel something is to be found in the thread.

@mod:

newbie games usually run a 3 week deadline and I haven't seen any note of a deadline in the first posts or your votecounts. I just want to know if you didn't forget to tell us the deadline or if we have a deadline or not. I'm not asking to apply one.

[My Milked Eek]

Not to defend tubby, but why did you call him out on "active lurking" when he wasn't? Saying he is going to leave his vote where it is, isn't active lurking, especially not when there are other and more blatant examples of active lurking.

Rereading now as I forgot Lost was on.

[My Milked Eek]

Ok, thanks mod. Just making sure

[My Milked Eek]

Reread! And notes time:

>> BlueRaven

#139 - Trying too hard to incriminate me.

#156 - He's not active lurking. By saying he keeps his vote, he is sharing information. You're trying too much again.

>> carrick16

#047 - Why is this the only thing you posted? If you played a few times, then surely you understand the importance of posting content?

#055 - Can't believe I missed this.
"

Rustyshark - Extremely shaky first post which points towards him being a goon unless he has friggin aspergers syndrome.

"
By goon, you mean, mafia goon right? And why "goon"?

#070 - What were you thinking when replying? "Oh, there's someone lurking and there are non-random votes thrown around, but let me answer this one question that has no relevance to the game".

#083 & #084 - "Let me answer the response to my previous post, I don't care about the continued lurking and the chainsaw defense."

#147 - Eh?

>> crunchi

#061 - Obvious lurking happening.

#074 - Undecisiveness to an opinion about some players.

>> purple princess

#054 - I like the rvs over asap, letting it run its own course is an uncommitted way to approach the game and reeks of setting up an excuse for scummy behavior during the rvs when called upon later.

#065 - I've never really liked questions like these. Makes me think the person asking them is trying to appear protown and active while the person isn' going to do anthing with th reactions and answers to the questions. The questions themselves are pretty non-relevant. The timing of the questions as well (after Crunchi's post in response to star) has me a bit worrying about attention diversion, especially since there's only one question about lurking in her set and it's a rather biased question.

#102 - Good posting and I agree with most parts of your conclusions.

>> rayfrost

#043 - There wasn't really a debate. And I'm not really getting the intent of this post. Are you telling us why you aren't posting (which you were) or are you giving bmc reasons/excuses as to why he hasn't posted yet?

#046 - Unvoting "because the rvs ended" is a lame reason to unvote. Was there any reason as to why you unvoted pp?

>> rustyshark

#030 - "

Start making mistakes so we can lynch you.

". I know I've gone over this before, but I still don't like that line (and the entire post either). It's trying too much.

#078 - Pretty obvious chainsaw defense. Even to the point of finding crunchi town. Sure, she could be town, but her behaviour is actually screaming "scummy" and at the least "antitown".

>>> Conclusions:

> Carrick is active lurking. Heavily. Not liking his play in general.

> Blueraven is my main suspect. Let me explain:
* Accuses people of wrongly accusing people, but then doesn't go through with it.
* Attempt to incriminate someone #1
* Attempt to incriminate someone #2
* Attempt to incriminate someone #3
* A lot of fluff content. Check his iso

[1]

posts.

Unvote. Vote: BlueRaven

---

[1] Reading a players posts in isolation is done by clicking go after selecting a poster in the menu at the bottom of the page:

Display posts from previous: [ All Posts ] by [ All Users ] [ Oldest First ] [ Go ]

[My Milked Eek]

In response to MME:

I didn't think PP was scummy enough to have a vote, pressure or otherwise. Thus, that, in combination with it no longer being RVS, led to an unvote.

I was giving

my

reasons for not posting anything contentful and stuff... no analysis and things like that

Ok, I thought so already, but I had to make sure.

Anything you want to note about my post?

[My Milked Eek]

People not included I have rather good reads on and/or no questions for or notes about.

Why I picked BlueRaven above Carrick:
My gut is yelling louder on his name at the moment.

Do know and note that I don't like both carricks as ravens play.

This saddens the fat guy

The fat guy shouldn't be sad.

[My Milked Eek]

if you dont realise we only have 9 days till lynch. And i dont like the fact that we arnt any closer to getting a lynch.

Are you saying we cannot decide on a lynch in 9 days or less? That's more than 1/3 of D1's maximum time.

Any reason you stopped posting content?

I apologize, I've had a hectic weekend. I'll get back on this momentarily.

No problems.

Number 1 and 3 are just me putting in my opinions, im not trying to imcrimonate anyone, if i wanted to i'd try harder.

Not really buying that. I perceive your 1 & 3 as trying to egg on other people without looking too aggressive. Why FoS only me? If you truly believed I "slipped up" by calling startrans town, why didn't you vote me?

Are the actions you (mis)portrayed in 1 & 3 not worthy of a FoS or some more questioning? Are you not looking for suspicious behaviour?

[My Milked Eek]

If you think they are worthy of asking questions, don't you think that at least another person would of followed on even if i stopped? Even so, as i said, its only my opinion. Nothing more, nothing less.

Whether I find/found them worthy of questions or not isn't really relevant. You brought them up so you thought they were worthy of questions. Why else bring them up? It also doesn't matter if no one else didn't want to ask questions, you brought them up and by doing that you obviously have something to say or to note or ask about them.

But also may i add, seeing that its only mainly you, DV7, tubby, rayfrost and i that are posting its sort of hard to try and find scum of the rest of them.

It''s equally important to find out if there's scum amongst the four of us or not. No need to wait or to "nag" about the inactives.

Going back to your comment about voting for you, I am a catious voter and dont throw my vote around like there is no tomorrow, plus as you said, we have over a third of the time to decide.

Funny, I said that 1/3 thing after you FoS'd (or better phrased: not voted) me. I was under the impression you found there was so little time left and so little scummy behaviour around. I'd expect from such a stance that you'd at least vote me for "slipping up".

[My Milked Eek]

ok then, what questions do you want me to answer? and as for the claim? I claim vanilla town.

My last post perhaps?


>> Startrans
Do you have any other suspects?

[My Milked Eek]

I'm not sure if I agree with "if blue flips town, the person who hammered will have to answer for it". At this point in the game 5 people think he's worth of a vote. Tubby, startrans, rayfrost and me. There's also porkchop, but he's going off on guts at the time of his vote and hasn't read my or tubby's case yet. So, approximately half of the players thinks he's scummy (or to put it better: the most suspicious amongst us). To blame the one that hammers is hypocritical and counterproductive as it would lead to a fear of hammering and subsequentially less hammering.

Tubby unvoting isn't suspicious or distancing. Upon reading startrans' vote my first reaction was "must unvote". Not so much for the quickhammer, but if blue is indeed scum he might selfhammer to end the day. Which is far worse than a quickhammer.

I'm going to

Unvote

as well as I really want to prevent a self/quick hammer at this point. Do note that this still leaves blue in the range of a lynch because, if I read it correctly, tubby will vote him if his answers aren't sufficient or closer to deadline and I will do the same.

So despite taking my vote off, his feet are equally close to our fire as if my vote were still on him.

Strong HoS: BlueRaven

[My Milked Eek]

Quick shift in the discussion of the direction: Do you think that Tubby's unvote was scummy?

Can I ask you the same question?

[My Milked Eek]

Ok, whoeevr accused me of lurking, and saying ive played the game before so I should know how important it is to be active.

Firstly, this game is completely different from the one I played, secondly, I have been busy. But i'll try and contribute more, I'll be honest and say i've only skimmed through the recent posts. Ive got nothing to hide so ill just say the truth.

Feel free to ask me questions, cuz I havent been active and theres stuff ive not read, but im willing to answer anything. And I have no idea who to vote really so i'll have to go through this long thread tonight.

That would have been me!

Reread the entire game and provide us with your insights and suspects. If you haven't got the time to read 200 posts (which isn't a long thread), address #166 and after that. A few posts before 166 are also advised.

[My Milked Eek]

Don't do a PBPA. Give us your list of suspects and add reasons.

[My Milked Eek]

Gah @ the newbie slack. >.>

Indeed.

Blue should be posting, but it seems he's just going to let town lynch him without defending himself or claiming.

How do you get to this conclusion? And is this, in your opinion, scummy or not?

[My Milked Eek]

I would like some prodding happening on Carrick16,

Mod

.

And I would not use that against BlueRaven at this point yet. It's been a day since he last posted. If this were closer to the deadline I'd be more worried/suspicious of him not answering directly. But as said, at this point it's a null tell.

[My Milked Eek]

sorry about that, mafia wont let me log in and im very busy on wednesdays. I dont get home till late on Thursdays.

lol, I was literally about to post a rant about your activity and then I clicked the preview button.

Oh and why the hell would i self vote? it seems to be the most stupid thing to do!

Doing more thinking, post back tomorrow or tonight if im lucky.

To end the discussion of D1.

And I'd rather have you answer tonight
With the deadline and all.

[My Milked Eek]

[tubby] clearly doesn’t want a

mislynch

.

What?


[bolded added for emphasis]

[My Milked Eek]

[tubby] clearly doesn’t want a

mislynch

.

What?


[bolded added for emphasis]

are you pointing out the misrep there MME?


and agreed with starts assement we gain alot of informtion from a lynch no matter what the alignment of the lynchee is.

Yes, I find the word "clearly" in the context of a "mislynch" upsetting, especially when it's being misrepresented, I don't remember anyone bringing up a "mislynch" anywhere in the thread aside for the last posts of pp and ash. We were concerned about quick- and selfhammers, not mislynching. Makes me wonder where ash got that from.

And I agree with startrans, pp should show us these miraculous town tells.

[My Milked Eek]

I am genuinely not lurking guys, I just have far too much on my plate at the moment, I am really sorry but I havent even been able to be online that much recently at all, let alone play this game the right way.

I'll have to ask to be replaced otherwise it isn't really fair on the rest of you guys.

Sorry for any inconvenience.

That's unfortunate, but I admire your honesty. If you know someone, on site or in real life, who is able to take over for you, that'd be nice as it would save the mod some work.

Take care.

[My Milked Eek]

@ MME: think the "mislynch" bit was either an attempt to subtly say tubby is scum or do you think it was a scum slip?

Seeing how Ash has tubby as "most protown" (at 4 mind you), I don't think he's trying to incriminate tubby.

By saying tubby was "trying to avoid a mislynch," it would mean that tubby knew it was a mislynch. thus, he would have to be scum.

The funny thing is, there's only one way Ash would and could know tubby knew it would be a mislynch: they're both scum.

Mmm, for a second there I thought that MME was going to say that Ash caliing the BlueRaven a mislynch indicated that he knew Blue's alignment. Which can certainly happen, but would be a pretty ambitious point.

That was indeed what I was implying. I have obviously no way to prove that or bring any evidence to the table at all, but I find the use of those words odd in that context.

@MME: So, running on the assumption that the misrep is scummy for a moment, what outcome is Ash's comment supposed to achieve?

The mislynch comment you mean? Nothing really. Buddying to tubby, perhaps.

[My Milked Eek]

That actually doesn't change the sentence.

"

Seems town with the unvoted when Blue reached L-1, clearly doesn't want a mislynch

. thats if [blueraven] is town of course."

You're talking about the intention of tubby, which was avoiding a quick/selfhammer while you said (and say) it was to avoid a mislynch.

[My Milked Eek]

I just think it is my gut feeling right now that BlueRaven is town, I just have a slight feeling that maybe scum would be trying a little bit harder in this game and with posts like "doing more thinking will post back tomorrow if I'm lucky" just seems a little lacklustre, which makes me think he is just plain vanilla, I could be completely wrong, but that is just my opinion. I also didn't mean that abandoning the blue waggon would be a miracle, I just meant that if he isn't going to responed to peolpe voting for him before the deadline, without anyone making any 'slip ups' he looked like he would be lynched.

Gut feelings are still pinged or called on by something, could you elaborate on the posts your gut is calling him town over?

If you allow me to be suggestive and whatnot (cause that's how I roll), the context of the "blue = town" post is very eh. The context being that blue was at L-2 and that both tubby and I proclaimed our intent to hammer/lynch blue later on D1. The context leads me to the conclusion that that post was nothing more than a setup for a later "I told you so" post on D2, should we have lynched blue. The use of "gut" feelings on blue enforce this hypothesis in my opinion. Especially when the "gut" is in contrast with the cases laid out against blueraven.

So pp, I'd like you to:
- point out the posts which pinged/activated your gut
- point out where the cases are wrong

But after seeing his post that he has limited access, he could therefore still be scum.

How does being on LA imply him being scum?


All in all, your choice of words and "gut" in the context given, feels a lot like trying to leave yourself some wiggling room if blue was lynched.

whoops didnt see that post, but doesnt unvoting because he doesnt want a quick hammer seem town to you?

Sure it does. But how is this relevant to what we're saying?
And as startrans said: you did see that post as it was the keystone of your townread on tubby.

[My Milked Eek]

I also didn't mean that abandoning the blue waggon would be a miracle, I just meant that if he isn't going to responed to peolpe voting for him before the deadline

I am unsure if we will have some kind of mircale before deadline, otherwise I can see that you may be the first to be lynched, which would be a complete waste if you do flip town.

And we have a lie!

It's more backtracking and trying not to say anything explicitly on blueraven. As said: leaving some wiggle room.

Also, reread post 252. PP (who has avoided really saying anything about Blue) spends a great deal of that post adding qualifiers to everything. It seems to me that she'd rather not get caught giving an explicit opinion on Blue.

As said: wiggle room and word choice are throwing me off as well.

@PP: Even though you (very quickly) threw in the towel in response to MME's request to explain your read, I'm not inclined to let you get away with not addressing the case against Blue. Actually reread the Blue discussion, and post some opinions on it. Who knows, you might even stumble across something that justifies your read along the way.

qft

So pp, I'd like you to:
- point out the posts which pinged/activated your gut
- point out where the cases are wrong

I think I have explained my reasoning for my thoughts on BlueRaven, cannot point out the posts which make me feel that way.

That's not explaining, that's saying "idk that's just the way it is". Also, thanks for ignoring the second request.

How does being on LA imply him being scum?

I didn't say that, I meant that that

havening a genuine reason for not being able to post may mean that he could be scum

, but cannot defend himself as much as he would like.

Once again, how does him being on LA imply that he is scum?

Arggggh! right now I can feel myself going around in big WIFOM circles, As I am typing this I am kind of talking myself out of the whole BlueRaven = town

I can tell. But we're not talking about any WIFOM, the WIFOM you're enduring is purely brought up and experienced on your end.

Perhaps she is distancing from the lynch of her scum buddy or a townie?

Odd sentence, but whatever. If she is distancing from the bluelynch (which she was nota bene), then I would say blue is town (yes despite the case I have against him).

At this point I'd rather much pursue pp or ash than blueraven. If not only because they are more responsive.

Vote: purpleprincess

[My Milked Eek]

How is it an odd sentence?

I consider distancing a possibility whenever I see something like this... perhaps because I don't have the proper definition for it?

Anyway, I think my vote is on ash... it's staying.

I just find it odd, I'll get back on it during an eventual reread later on.

No, you were right in a way, she was distancing, but not from BlueRaven, she was distancing from the bandwagon/(mis)lynch on BlueRaven, which is scummy.

Hey Blue!!!!!

Why don't you respond to the case made against you?

which case? the one MME sorta already delt with? I already commented on it.

Halfassed answers and only to the half of my case. Retry please.

But just giving my opinion, if i were her? I would defend me cus less experienced players are easyer targets later on in games. I'd focus on a different target or a lier, implying the 'lynch all liers polocy' or that she dosnt like his move and 'lynch for lieing'. Then tonight i'd probobly kill off the IC or anyone who proposes a possible threat. (But at this case its probobly everyone, so that was just a WIFOM) Even if im dead and this happens this confirms my suspissions.

I don't even know what this is supposed to be or what you're saying.

Oh and i forgot to add:

vote: D-V-7

i dont like the way he puposly lied about that. On my scum-o-meter he's just been bumped to first.

Great and then you go do the thing you say you'd do if you were pp.

I don't see a lie here.

Not a lie: backtracking.

@PP: Even though you (very quickly) threw in the towel in response to MME's request to explain your read, I'm not inclined to let you get away with not addressing the case against Blue. Actually reread the Blue discussion, and post some opinions on it. Who knows, you might even stumble across something that justifies your read along the way.

No thanks, I have said all I have to say on this matter for now.

No you haven't. Vote's staying.

Once again, how does him being on LA imply that he is scum?

I have already done this once thanks.

No you haven't. You just rephrased your original statement.

LA = Limited Access = Genuine reason not to vote.

Now, again, why is Blue being on LA a sign of him being scum(my).

Then tonight i'd probobly kill off the IC or anyone who proposes a possible threat.

You do realise if this now happens tonight all fingers will be pointing at you tomorrow don't you?

Meh.

[My Milked Eek]

EBWOP: "

LA = Limited Access = Genuine reason not to vote.

" ~ me in #268
Vote should be "post", sorry.

from what i gathered you FoS'ed him but not voted for him.

From what I gathered, you still didn't reply or do as requested.

[My Milked Eek]

For God's sake and even more for my sake, stop asking US to show YOU what you need to answer. Read the game (preferably the last 100-something posts) and comment/answer ANYTHING (preferably EVERYTHING) revolving you or your actions. It's not that hard.

Same goes for Blue and pp.

[My Milked Eek]

Also:

@mod

is it possible to get a few days worth of a deadline extension? Carrick requested a replacement and we have only three RL days left.

[My Milked Eek]

Having to locate one replacement does not qualify as extenuating circumstances. No deadline extension will be granted.

Fair enough. Can't blame a guy for trying

[My Milked Eek]

MME your thoughts on ash please??

I agree with the case that was made and if memory serves me correctly, I was pushing it for some time as well, until pp popped out to be more scummy. I would have like it better if we lynched pp, but ash will do.

I will drop the hammer a bit closer to the deadline, if you don't mind. If he hasn't been hammered yet that is, which I do believe he has been. Unfortunately the vote count was off, but in the end the result remains the same, so no harm done.

[My Milked Eek]

since the hammer has (technically) been dropped, i would like to wish you all the best

Thanks and thanks for playing. Take care and until a later game.

[My Milked Eek]

As per the rules of the Newbie queue, you are now considered to be an SE.

"When you finish your second game anywhere on this site, you are then considered a Semi-Experienced player and will occupy one of the Semi-Experienced playing spots. Semi-Experienced players may play in as many games as they can handle."

[My Milked Eek]

If we have a cop, he should reveal himself now. We pretty much automatically win in that case, as the doc will protect him every night without fail.
The doctor SHOULD NOT CLAIM, however.

Welcome. Any input on yesterday?

And

vote: purple princess

. Picking up where I left yesterday.

[My Milked Eek]

Until then... wait, I guess.

Unless you actually want to do something. That's good, too.

Well, if you don't mind...

[My Milked Eek]

Wow that was a quick lynch, and a very lucky one aswel.

Quick? We used up 18 of the 21 available days.

I think that it was a little unfortunate that Carrick16 asked for a replacement when he did, if he was david-villa-7's scum buddy surely he would have stuck up for him a little bit towards the end of the day, no one wants their scum buddy to be the first to lynched.

So, is this one of the reasons you're voting nikanor?

Also looking back on Carrick's post's I have noticed someting which unsettles me a bit.

Rustyshark - Extremely shaky first post which points towards him being a goon unless he has friggin aspergers syndrome.

Imo this seems like he is distancing himself towards Rusty/david saying that he must be scum so early on in the game, I guess if anything was going to be bought up later on in the game he could refer back to this that he had always had his suspicions towards his scum buddy.

Let me go out on a limb here and assume that he didn't mean "goon" as in "mafia goon" but as in idiot. Keep grasping.

Also I am guessing that RayFrost was night killed as it was only myself and him that had suspicions towards Carrick16, but as I had drawn a lot of attention to myself on day one, I would be #1 suspect for day 2 and would be pointless if I was dead.

Wrong again, I too suspected carrick16. Not as much as I suspected you, ash or blue. Also, can you point out the post(s) where RayFrost accused carrick? Or to put it better, where he suspected carrick more than Blue/ash.

[My Milked Eek]

Also, just notced that rustyshark's vote in RVS is for Carrick, maybe nothing but the reason for voting for him seems a little odd to me.

Vote: Carrick16

for trying to make it look like you're

not

trying too hard.

Maybe nothing, But I am unsure why you would say something like that, it reads to me as he is saying try not to lurk. kind of like a hidden message to his scum buddy.

OR he could be saying that to reference this post:

vote RayFrost

for trying a bit too hard.

You sure use a lot of "if's" and "would have's" in your accusations towards the now-replaced carrick. It's ok to speculate about what could have happened, if it's relevant to the situation, but it's not ok if you base your whole (or most of it) suspicion of carrick/nikanor on it.

@ MME, sorry, yes reading back other people have been suspicious towards Carrick16, I am just trying to find reasons to why RayFost was night killed,

Meh. Useless speculation at this point. If you want to analyze nightkills, do it on a later day when killing patterns and scum motivations are more clear and present.

also sorry that you are so quick to disguard my ideas.

I'm bored. Sue me.

[My Milked Eek]

Maybe nothing, But I am unsure why you would say something like that,

it reads to me as he is saying try not to lurk.

kind of like a hidden message to his scum buddy.

Can't believe I overlooked:

Not to lurk? On page 2? When carrick's last post was made +-12 hours before that post?

[My Milked Eek]

Sorry for my silence, but I don't really have much to add right now. I would like to ask Nikanor though, Please could you post your opinions on all players, also who you think is scum right now.

Yeah, sure, you don't have to reply to post 307 and 308. It's not as if I directed those two posts solely at you.

Nice deflection onto Nikanor, though. I appreciate the move.

And do the same as you requested from Nikanor, because I do not see any opinion on your end at all.

Ah, always nice to bag scum right off the bat. So we have a 50/50 chance of there being a cop and doctor.

If we have a cop, he should reveal himself now. We pretty much automatically win in that case, as the doc will protect him every night without fail.
The doctor SHOULD NOT CLAIM, however.

Welcome Nikanor. I have to disagree with you here. I understand where you're coming from, but I don't think it's wise to give the mafia anymore info than necessary. If there is a cop then a claim should only be made when they are at L-1, or if they have a guilty result that would end the game.

If there is a cop, then he

should

claim. It eliminates a player and an eventual other player. It also makes sure the doc will protect the cop during the night. The downside to this is that the scum knows who is cop and sub-sequentially who isn't the doc. This is a small sacrifice imo.

I'm leaning towards MME and Tubby's opinions regarding PP. None of her arguments against Carrick have convinced me... and her vote against Nikanor rubs me the wrong way. I noted how she seemingly distanced herself from Ash when the votes started to go against him- though to be fair she was busy debating with MME.

Doesn't mean anything unless it's proven that pp's attention span is really small.

I'm mostly concerned with Blue though. I don't like his vote, it seems he saw which way the wind was blowing, and wanted to avoid being the hammer. I usually analyze the L-2 vote more than the hammer, depending on circumstances. His reason for voting Blue was borrowed, he didn't really discuss or mention the Ash wagon before he voted for him, and in fact that post and most surrounding it are little more than fluff.

FoS: Blue Raven

It's worth noting that Ray (rip) while voting for Ash, also FoSed Blue in the same post. Blue never responded to that. Blue never really responds to anything. And 263 bugs me to no end.

It's not because Rayfrost is a townie, that he is right in his suspicions. But yes, we do need to hear from blue or he needs to replace.

[My Milked Eek]

The only problem I have with that post is that ash lists carrick higher than pp for doing both the same thing really (or so he says). Yet with pp he doesn't use the words "active lurking" while he does use them with carrick.

Distancing? In my opinion, yes.

[My Milked Eek]

Also: Happy birthday tubby.

[My Milked Eek]

Ok:

- why are you deflecting the attention away from yourself? your continued evasion isn't helping your case.
- player analysis please (second time today I've asked)

[My Milked Eek]

Now that you seem to be wilfully ignoring discussion, pp, I'm fine with putting you at L-1.

Unvote. Vote: princesspurple.

I support this vote. PP, the pressure is on and you're responding badly. I would like to see you do what MME asked you to do, a player analysis. Even a post with some content would be nice. You're at L-1 and you respond with one sentence posts that deflect attention and you evade direct questions. Have you claimed yet? Now would be a good time.

Yes, indeed.

If there is a cop, then he should claim. It eliminates a player and an eventual other player. It also makes sure the doc will protect the cop during the night. The downside to this is that the scum knows who is cop and sub-sequentially who isn't the doc. This is a small sacrifice imo.

Ok, I'll agree. It just goes against my instincts to have a claim so soon. But the roleblocker is dead, and it would indeed help us. I guess I also worry about a false claim, that could be problematic. But with one scum down I doubt the other one would stick their neck out like that.

A false claim would be auto suicide. Let's assume a cop fakeclaim and no cc's.

The fake-cop gets to LyLo with two players. The only thing that needs to happen is for the two players to say they are not the doc and we'll know the cop is a fake.

I'm not liking the absence of blue, nikanor and pp or the absence of any valuable content.

[My Milked Eek]

It's just that we're under a deadline and we're wasting valuable time by waiting for you, blue and pp.

@mod

: is the deadline set at October 15th?

[My Milked Eek]

Not to sound like a nag or a broken record, but if you barely have time for this game, don't enter other games.

Case in point:
Nikanor#1, Nikanor#2.

If you're not going to put out some content soon, I'll push for your (policy) lynch.

[My Milked Eek]

The only problem I have with that post is that ash lists carrick higher than pp for doing both the same thing really (or so he says). Yet with pp he doesn't use the words "active lurking" while he does use them with carrick.

Distancing? In my opinion, yes.

Try turning this around, maybe this was his intention for you to think like this.

How about we try and not use any wifom there.

- why are you deflecting the attention away from yourself? your continued evasion isn't helping your case.
- player analysis please (second time today I've asked)

I am unsure how I am deflecting attention towards myself when every one seems to be voting for me.

Sorry right now I don't have time to post a player analysis, I will do this as soon as I can.

You weren't answering any of our requests and then you try to appear protown by asking that of nikanor.

All you've been doing thus far, imo, has been
- asking seemingly protown questions
- dodging questions & requests
- fencesitting

And some other awesome stuff.

[My Milked Eek]

I meant that it was unfortunate that he asked for a replacement when he did, as no one really stuck up for david-villa-7 before he was lynched,

If

imo Carrick16 is scum then maybe he

would have

, giving us a better insight into who was scum for d2, surley leaving only one scum in the game is bad for scum and maybe they

would have

tried to move the attention towards another player before david-villa-7 was lynched.

The problem I'm having with this little quote and why I felt to post it separately is that you're trying to tie Carrick/Nikanor to ash with a lot of "would have's" and "if's".

Can I ask of you the following:
- your case on carrick/nikanor
- why you didn't give your opinion on ash back during D1

[My Milked Eek]

Haha, I don't think being busy for four days over a weekend really qualifies as grounds for a lurker lynch.
Anyway, I'm home and reading. I'll post something before or after dinner.
Probably not during dinner, though.

Yeah, definitely not during dinner.

I was just annoyed by the lack of content and then I saw you /in and /confirm in two other games. That's all.

More during class I guess.

[My Milked Eek]

ok, im back. Sorry about that....

Do you have anything to say...?

*cough**cough*

[My Milked Eek]

And before you say it:
That one post was ok, but it was only about pp. Who is conveniently at L-1. And suspected by more than half of the remaining players.

Do a LoS please.

[My Milked Eek]

Ah, blue eh?

Conveniently the second person of the suspects?
And I'll give you that until you did your LoS.

[My Milked Eek]

Interesting actually.

[My Milked Eek]

Tubby has like 25 posts and it takes you 2 hours to read 12 of them?

If I wasn't so serious about pp I'd be voting you.

[My Milked Eek]

While you aren't breaking it, rule 2 is about making a commitment to this game and the other players. You're telling me it's going to take you another 4 days to comment on everyone? 8 if you're doing everyone in halves? You do realize we have a deadline right?

[My Milked Eek]

I do realise we have a deadline. I'm also conscious of the fact that it is two weeks away.

And this is a poor attempt at trying to justify your laziness.

If I had posted all my content last week, as soon as the thread opened, do you know what we'd be doing right now? We'd be waiting for our lurker Blue to show up and actually provide some content for once. Since I didn't post all my content a week ago, though, that's not the case. Now we're waiting for Blue and Nik to post content. How is that any different than if we were waiting for Blue to speak? The only difference is that I'm here for you to reprimand, while Blue is off in his own world doing who-knows-what.

And you try to justify your non-activeness by hiding at the non-activeness of others. Great move.

You know, we could have posted about your posts and contents while waiting for Blueraven to post. Instead of having to wait on blueraven

and

on you to post.

You're trying to excuse yourself by using very lame reasons. Don't.

Also, don't go citing the rules to me. I've made a commitment to the game and to the players in this game, yes. However, I do not feel that commitment extends to doing something I do not particularly enjoy (i.e. working for six hours on PBPAs to get together the proper material for a LoS).
And above all, citing rules makes you look facetious. So don't do it.

Citing the rules does not make me look facetious (had to google that word). Citing the rules was meant to make sure you understand you're wasting our time by postponing and postponing.

We've been asking for your opinions on everyone, so far you've posted two analysis'. And I have to say the fact they're on blue and pp, and halfassed to that extent, isn't convincing me of your protownness.

[My Milked Eek]

*makes a remark about nikanor slacking off and applies some hotheaded pressure*

[My Milked Eek]

*makes an agitated remark about the duration of said work*

[My Milked Eek]

>=(

Also, by not listing porkchops towntells and by giving us tubby's report, do you find tubby scummier than porkchop or to put it differently, do you find porkchop to be more town than tubby?

[My Milked Eek]

@mod: how's blue's replacement going?

I'm not sure either, purely from a setup perspective, that the goon would bus his roleblocker with no apparent need to, as pp pointed out. From a contextual perspective, tubby's vote and wording does seem a bit off and warrants a closer inspection tomorrow.

[My Milked Eek]

Ugh.

[My Milked Eek]

Posting in a few hours, I have class in one hour. But congratulations guys

[My Milked Eek]

lol, that quicktopic is barely used.

Some general advice:
If you were the subject of a bandwagon, look at the arguments used against you to improve. If you were nightkilled: good job, lol.

RF, Pads, Tubby, Star and Porkchop were all pretty quick on my town list and I don't think any change or advice could be given here, perhaps
- be more active during the final days
- don't replace out @startrans

The only big remark I have is the slowness of the final days, I was getting a bit frustrated why you weren't talking D3 and D4. But that's it.

Nikanor: good game. But the other players were monstrously town, making the game harder for you. You did good

dv: read the cases against you to improve.


All in all, this was a fun game to play and I hope I'll play with several, if not all, of you in a future game.

And a big thanks to hohum for moderating this fun game.