Mafia 102: No-Frills Game Thread(Town wins!)

[charter]

/confirm

[charter]

Sooo, with just three mafia in a 16 person game, I think it could be beneficial to no lynch for a few days, in order to give the cop a few investigations.

Plus side, we can get ~3-4 confirmed town which the cop can reveal the first 'real' day before we lynch someone.

Of course, the down side to this is if the cop gets NK'ed, then this will backfire massively.

However, if we just straight no lynch for a few (2-3) days, without discussion, then I don't see how scum can kill the cop other than random, and that's an extremely long shot, whereas the chance of the cop investigating a scum or two is much better.

I'd also like to say, that I was mafia in silent mafia, where there is no talking, and it took us a while to pick out power roles, whereas they tore us apart, so I see this as a potential similar scenario.

So I will

Vote No lynch

. I see how this idea will probably be met with skepticism, but I think it's fairly gamebreaking. If anyone agrees, you should vote no lynch as well. Of course, I'm not going to push this if there isn't going to be support.

[charter]

Eh, I like where your head is at mask man, but hypocop is actually a really poor town strategy. It lets scum pinpoint the cop VERY fast.

I would actually love it if scum tried to pull a cop gambit, since there is no way to actually pull it off and they are just outing themselves.

[charter]

Maybe instead of just calling everyone voting no lynch mafia (which is obviously not true), you could explain why it isn't a good idea. I've already explained why it is, and oh wait, looks like people agree.

Maybe, instead of spamming the thread with junk, you could try and do something useful too.

[charter]

That's a good point crypto, I didn't even notice the cop might not be sane. The new pm posted isn't any more reassuring. No lynch idea is now officially a bad idea.

unvote, vote hiphop

For ignoring the idea before. I'd think if you were town, you'd have at least something to say when someone suggests a no lynch.

[charter]

Charter, was that vote serious or humorous/random?

I gave a serious reason with it, soooo serious.

I'd think if I were scum, I'd have at least something to say when someone suggests a no lynch. What is the difference between the sentence you wrote, and the sentence I wrote? Why should I say something, if I didn't care either way? If the town wanted it, the town would get it. I saw several pros and cons both ways. One of the main ones is how would the cop know who to investigate. A good reason I didn't think of, until I read crypto's post (How long did it take you to write that?) is the town has an extra four people than a mini, which means the town has an extra two mislynches than a mini. Why waste them?

Well, your sentence isn't true, we can start with that. Scum purposefully sit back without committing to something all the time. That way, when they finally do commit, they can easily go with the flow, rather than stick out and draw attention to themselves. I don't really see how you can not care what happens either.

bigmc, not knowing the cop is sane makes the cop essentially worthless, unless they get like three innocents and a guilty, or something like that. Cop being mostly useless makes no lynching a very poor idea. Under no circumstances should we no lynch day one or two. None.

What makes you an expert on what scum would do? You said go with the flow. If that was the case, I would of voted no lynch.

Except, no one but myself had voted for no lynch when you posted and failed to comment on no lynching. There was no flow to go with at the time.

The only problem is sanity. Perhaps one possibility is for the cop to self-investigate, but that will only catch a paranoid cop.

Please, please, please! do not investigate yourself... You will know if you're paranoid because you will be getting all guilties...

Let's get this cleared up. No lynching 'because we aren't sure if someone is scum' is a horrible idea. HORRIBLE.
And also, no lynching to give the cop several investigations is also a bad idea now, since the cop might not be sane.

Finally, hiphop. His vote on EtherealCookie was A) bad (same as everyone else's) and B) opportunistic and C) scummy. Coupled with his not commenting on no lynch, then defending himself with bad logic, and he's pretty scummy. More people need to be voting for him, and if you're scum, now is a good time to bus him.

[charter]

It's also possible he gets a bunch of innocents and is sane and just sucks at investigating scum.

Please get over no lynching, it is not going to happen.

[charter]

No matter what he is, the combination of mislynches AND night kills will put us in an even tighter spot. We have a 33% chance of lynching scum on D1 OR D2. That means that on

D3

, there is a 67% chance that 4 townies will be dead. With the no lynching plan, we will have only 3 townies dead on

D4

.

And with no lynching we will 100% GUARANTEED have zero scum dead. You can't no lynch because you aren't positive someone is scum. The extent you're debating this is getting ridiculous.

[charter]

Yeah, a defense of 'meta me' and I'm extremely happy with my vote.

[charter]

If you insist.
1.SC- I have found that scum usually attack with a solid reason, while town take more risks.
2.Team Aether- said he was eager for the game to start, yet hasn't posted.
3.EC-Looks more and more like a VI. Can't be sure.
4.Charter- same as SC.

Looks the same as yours, but without me and with TA.

No way! Scum attack with a solid reason? What then does town attack with?

I am puzzled by le Chat. Not sure how to put my finger on it.

[charter]

I agree, X going so far out of his way to not do something simple is incredibly suspicious.

[charter]

Sando is so town.

I'm pretty sure at least one of X and hiphop is scum (possible both are). Still keeping my vote on hiphop because he is scummier.

Kairveran comes after them in my scumspicions.

[charter]

OH MY GOODNESS. WHY HAVEN'T WE LYNCHED HIPHOP YET?


And SC, you don't see Sando as town?

[charter]

To be perfectly clear, hiphop is now arguing (in what looks like an attempt to make us suspicious of SC) with SC because he isn't adhering to the activity rules of another game. In that game SC didn't adhere to them strictly (who does ), and was town.

He's also arguing these other points that have no bearing whatsoever on SC's alignment.

He's also trying to use things that don't have any bearing on SC's alignment to cast suspicion on him (I believe).

[charter]

Don't know why I was prodded, but whatever, I'll read up and post.

[charter]

Hiphop:

1.SC- I have found that scum usually attack with a solid reason, while town take more risks.

Example based on personal experience, please.

Not only this, but he ignored my request of what does town attack with then. I'd forgotten about this, but hiphop, you need to provide an explanation/example.

243 is by far the best post crypto has made so far. Solid accusations and reasons. Pomegranate's response in 244 is to pawn it all off on lurking. Lurking isn't acceptable. Makes me want to force her to contribute. So I think I will.

unvote, vote Pomegranate

Charter: Why is Hiphop scum?

His vote on EC was very opportunistic and scummy. Defending himself with poor logic when I questioned him about why he didn't comment on a no lynch. Arguing with SC about activity rules in another game, which SC was town in. Also, I'm pretty sure he's scum.

Not quite sure what to make of staple's last post. If you really feel that way, you should replace out.

Still favoring my hiphop/X/Kairveran scumteam.

[charter]

I had thought it was down. Been marathon daying it up. Lemme read and post something.

[charter]

bigmc and muh's staple votes are weak. Muh's pretty suspicious when conditioned with "no, I'm not bandwagoning with bigmc".

With 330, Pom becomes scummy. Another weak staple vote, rest of the post doesn't say much, either.

353, good post by Empking, I'll probably be sheeping this.

363, Oh snap! Definately jumping on board the muhwagon.

374, crypto, muh is suspicious because he added the "I'm not bandwagoning" clause after his vote.

unvote, vote muh

Easy target tell convincts half the players here, while simultaneously clearing staple. Plus, I happen to like most of the people voting muh.

[charter]

Sorry for not posting, I was unexpectadley V/LA since Friday night.

Here is my rationale behind voting Staple. There are two possibilities; he's either town or scum. It is also fairly clear that he doesn't want to play anymore based on his posts. I feel that if he were town and didn't want to play anymore, he would just replace out. But he could be scum acting like he doesn't want to play anymore, saying he's town and whatnot, trying to AtE and test us (by saying "go ahead lynch me). He is a brand new player, and I'd think AtE and "lynch me so I can prove I'm town" would be a very appealing strategies for newbie scum.

Yes, muh is looking pretty bad, and if Staple flips town, I'll definetely be voting muh tomorrow.

But because of what I just said, I'm really liking my Staple vote right now. If he were a townie acting this way, he would just replace out.

And fine I'll admit it....no lynch was a bad idea, you win charter.

This is making me question muh now. Now I'm wanting to vote you.

Lynching someone because they don't want to play, because they could be either town or scum, using ATE, or being brand new is a terrible idea. That was all the reasons you just listed there, not a one of them makes him more likely to be scum than town. None of them are good reasons for anything more than a pressure wagon, but you seem pretty intent on lynching him (then when he obvflipstown, muh).

I believe I will vote you.

unvote, vote bigmc

[charter]

Why is it more likely this strategy (I don't think it is, seems pretty genuine) is coming from scum instead of town? Why can't he be town and not want to be lynched?

[charter]

There are two sides to it, as far as I'm concerned:

1. Inexperienced
   scum are more likely than
   experienced
   scum to dig themselves into a hole and then make emotional appeals to get out. So it's logical to consider that as a major possibility for Staple as he is a relatively new player.

The thing is, he didn't dig a hole. There were like three people digging a hole for him.

[*]Inexperienced

townies

are more likely than inexperienced

scum

to make some attempt at scum hunting. Inexperienced scum are more prone to lurking, OMGUS, and appeals to emotion, all of which Staple has committed.[/list]Look at Staple's other game. It's ongoing, which means we can't go into any detail and we don't know Staple's alignment, but his play there is immensely more proactive/pro-town than it is here. That's a huge warning sign if you ask me.

This really isn't true. It sounds like it should be true, but it really isn't. I'm not reading any other games, can barely keep up with this one.

This just in: I hate to rain on the BMC versus Staple parade, but I'm totally up for lynching Pomegranate whenever you guys are ready (ideally after we deal with RayFrost).

Yeah, Pomegranate has looked pretty scummy. I really don't have a problem with RayFrost like you do, though. Him saying nothing makes him a lot less scummy than a lot of the players in this game.

People I'd love to lynch, in vague order:
hiphop
Kaiveran
bigmc109
Pomegranate
X_~

I also think the sooner one of them gets lynched, the better.

[charter]

I also think the sooner one of them gets lynched, the better.

why?

Because this day has been terribly unproductive so far and speedy wagons will rectify that.

[charter]

I don't see how any of them, either in combination or alone, makes him more likely to be scum. I think the opportunistic votes he quickly garnered make him very likely to be town, and those voting him very likely to be scum.

[charter]

Meant to ask you to explain why these things mean he is scum, as well, please.

[charter]

None of that is any more than weak suspicion on your part. I suppose you can keep clinging to a staple vote, but that's not convincing at all. Staple wagon is pointless.

A wagon on one of:
hiphop
Kaiveran
bigmc109
Pomegranate
X_~

Would be amazing.

[charter]

Defend your position with more than "the bandwagon seems scum-driven"

I'm not sure what more you want, this is a really solid reason. And since I'm defending someone of whom I'm not positive of their alignment, I'm not sure what else I can do.

He says we should lynch him because he knows he's been playing scummy. Terrible reason to vote someone. Scum would be (and almost certainly are) jumping all over this, which is exactly what Bigmc, muh, and Pom have done.

I don't think his posts have been particularly good or insightful, but I find the people that jumped on him far more suspicious than staple.

---------------------

Super Accurate* Vote Count(as of post 425):

RayFrost - 2(mask man, crypto)
Staple - 5(le Chat, hiphop, bigmc109, muh316, Pomegranate)
crypto - 1(X_~)
X_~ - 1(EtherealCookie)
Pomegranate - 1(SerialClergyman)
muh316 - 2(Empking, Sando)
bigmc109 - 2(Staple, charter)

Not Voting:Kaiveran, RayFrost

*Not guaranteed to be accurate.

[charter]

Townies play scummy all the time, at least he admitted it and is trying to correct it. The chance of him being scum is really small. You're taking his actions and refusing to even consider him as town. Why is that? Because he screwed up and you're scum and you're running with it. Same thing applies to Pom.

[charter]

Pom, none of what you said in that post is what I said. I said scum are probably jumping on staple. I accused you and bigmc of this. I said that bigmc is running with 'staple is scum' because staple made some bad posts. I said you're doing the same thing as bigmc. I haven't defended you, and I can't see myself doing so today because you're very scummy.

Charter, why is Kaiveran a good choice for a wagon?

Because his one post was horribly scummy.

[charter]

Townies play scummy all the time, at least he admitted it and is trying to correct it. The chance of him being scum is really small. You're taking his actions and refusing to even consider him as town. Why is that? Because he screwed up and you're scum and you're running with it. Same thing applies to Pom.

I'm calling bullshit on this. Staple has done nothing to improve his play here. Your rhetoric is painful to read.

What the hell are you talking about? You seriously think that everyone who posts something like "I don't want to play" or "I've played scummy" is scum? Please. Probably one out of ten people that post this stuff is scum. You seriously think scum cracked under the pressure of TWO VOTES?

There's enough people in this game have have some sense, so I'm done defending staple. Can't imagine he actually gets lynched.

Ray, Empking, Sando, SC: You guys should all vote bigmc. Let's get the ball rolling.

[charter]

@Charter: Thanks for defending me mate, but why did you take this task upon yourself? Even though as you yourself stated it is ridiculous iyo to vote me, people generally shy away from making alliances in mafia, especially defending someone else like this. If player x defends player y, and player y turns out to be scum, player x would generally be in the spotlight. Perhaps you also know my alignment, and you are trying to work on your alibi a bit more when I turn out as town?

Because we are wasting mith's precious bandwidth debating whether or not you should be lynched. I'm not making alliances or friends, I am clearing town and finding scum. If you flip scum, I'll gladly be in the spotlight, but I don't think that is going to happen.

And for anyone who thinks defending others who are obvtown is scummy, this game just finished where I single handedly derailed a lynch on someone after he was at L-1 AND claimed vanilla solely because I thought it was pretty obvious that scum were voting him and he was town. I see the same thing in this game, and I'm doing the same thing.

3. You are town defending someone for no reason other than you think he is town.
A townie should not defend anybody, unless that person is guaranteed to be innocent.

This is terribly dumb. Clearing townies is just as useful as finding scum. Look at what I just posted and like my first three posts in the game I posted, and see that I JUST DID IT AS TOWN. Bonus, I was right about him being town, and I'd wager I'm right about staple.

You seriously think scum cracked under the pressure of TWO VOTES?

N00bs usually

do

crack pretty easily. This is Staple's second game, (the other one is a Newbie in D1) so this could easily be his first game as scum. Also, who do you think is more likely to crack easily: n00b town or n00b scum?

~~~

I went and checked up on Staple's Newbie game, and IMO he is scumhunting well there. I'm not going to continue to discuss that game because it is ongoing, but I do see a difference in his play from his play here.

Town, by far. That's the case most of the time. HOW DO YOU KNOW HE ISNT SCUM IN THE OTHER GAME AND TOWN HERE? Seriously, people using "oh well soandso's playing different in another ongoing game" as a reason (even mentioning it is bad) is terrible. You don't know anyone's role in another game, PLUS it's ongoing so it shouldn't be discussed anyway. This argument makes you look scummy, not staple.

[charter]

I'm saying it's obviously not a scumtell, since I do it as town, but oh wait, that's why you're voting me. And you still are.

[charter]

Bigmc tried to set up a muh lynch if (when) staple flips town.

hiphop, if I do it as town as well, it isn't a scumtell, hence not a reason to vote me. Obviously I could still be scum and doing it, but you can't vote me for that reason since I do it as town too (you can, but it's a really bad/scummy vote).

[charter]

MOD, what is the status of prods/replacements

I feel like only half the players in this game are participating and it hurting the game bad.

[charter]

Setting up lynches is 100% undeniably a scum tell. This isn't really debatable, I don't know why crypto is trying it. Just thought this should be made clear.

Bigmc is scummy for his opportunistic vote on staple, his setting up a lynch of muh when staple flips town, and for his no lynch idea if we aren't sure someone is scum. No lynching because you aren't sure someone is scum only helps scum.

I am still calling for more people to vote for bigmc. People should start voting him.

I don't get what all the fuss over SC is. I took his statement to mean that Sando chose to vote muh instead of bigmc and continues to do so. Don't see the problem with this. He thinks that bigmc is scum and muh is not, so by voting for muh instead of bigmc, Sando looks scummy. Don't see the problem with this. I don't see what there is to misinterpret.

[charter]

No, setting up lynches by saying "lynch xxxx when yyyy flips scum" is perfectly acceptable. Bigmc pulled "lynch muh when staple flips town".

That example there, without actually checking, I assume you're saying lynch GD, then when he flips scum, lynch Reck. That's fine. That's not what bigmc did at all.

[charter]

if

Staple flips town, I'll definetely be voting muh tomorrow.

Saying you will be voting for player

x

if player

y

—who both you and

x

have a scum read on—flips town is NOT a scum tell. It is NOT suspicious. It is NOT setting up a lynch, even.

In the example I gave, those two players were unrelated. But I'm sure I can find examples where two players related in the same game.

Yeah, this is suspicious and is a scumtell. It's hard to believe you've been doing this in every game and no one has set you straight.

Bigmc, you're using someone's town flip to attack someone else (granted this is all speculation, but the point still holds) which is suspicious. Admitting it doesn't make it less suspicious.

[charter]

That isn't what a scum tell is at all. A scum tell is an action more likely to be taken by scum than town. It doesn't matter who does it more often. It matters who stands to benefit more from the action.

Bigmc stands to benefit way more in lynching staple, then using the logic of "oh well, staple is town, muh must be scum" if he is scum than town, hence, it is scummy. This logic is bad and scummy. Bigmc is scummy.

I'm done arguing pointless things with you crypto.

[charter]

Uhm.
X didn't set up a lynch for me? His idea was to No Lynch, Cop investigate me, and then Lynch me.

I wasn't really referring to you, but the idea to no lynch, then direct the cop is a terrible idea and scummy.

Crypto, I have no idea what argument you are talking about. There's a really specific definition of what a scumtell is, and what I said was really close to that. I don't know what you're thinking of.

And I don't care if townies do what bigmc did. What he did was scummy and I'm pointing that out. I'm sure I can find an example of a townie doing just about everything.

[charter]

It wasn't arbitrary. I've been going on and on about this for a while now. Staple gathered a bunch of opportunistic votes. I would expect scum to jump all over Staple.

If we're not going to get more than four votes on bigmc, then I'm going to go back to someone else on my list.

[charter]

Link SC?
I was briefly in this game with him, but I don't really remember anything about that game. Died pretty fast.

[charter]

Nope. Bigmc lynch. Let's go people. Stop with this staple nonsense.

[charter]

I'll check this again after the move, no point in doing anything when half the players aren't here.

[charter]

Yeah, still waiting for replacements.

[charter]

Still waiting for replacements, I see bigmc is getting about one vote every five or so pages, ugh.

[charter]

I hear that we're up to full capacity. I'll read up where I left off later tonight.

[charter]

Really nothing to catch up on.

Because the case on me is horrible and the majority of the players can see that. If I didn't include that one little fragment which you said was setting up muh for a lynch, I doubt there would be a case. What I have I done since then that is scummy?

If you needed to have repeated scumtells dropped by scum in order to catch them, town would never win. Your vote on staple and setting up lynches and general lack of pro town makes you scummy and a wonderful lynch. Doesn't matter if it happened ten pages ago and you haven't done anything scummy since then. You haven't done anything pro town all game.

@charter- What are you really waiting for? For me to invote you? I don't buy the fact that you are truly waiting for replacements. What do they have to do with you posting? What is the difference between now and the beginning of the game? You posted then, why not now?

For more than half the players to actually be playing the game. I don't really care about your vote on me, it's not going to do anything. Not much point posting with half the town MIA.

Charter: How much more likely do you think it is that BigMc is scum rather than Muh?

Much.

unvote, vote Pom

Both are scum. Hiphop is probably the third. Gonna have to try a Pom wagon since a bigmc one, for whatever reason, isn't happening.

[charter]

Hmmm, it seems we have a deadline in a week. We need to just pick someone and lynch them.

[charter]

Nah, too many pro-bigmc are anti-Pom. I'm sticking with the coolest wagon of the day to see if deadline gees up the rest of the people.

I missed this, do you have a quick list of them off the top of your head?

[charter]

Nah, too many pro-bigmc are anti-Pom. I'm sticking with the coolest wagon of the day to see if deadline gees up the rest of the people.

I missed this, do you have a quick list of them off the top of your head?

Doing my my own work, I see that crypto and Kaiveran fall in to this category.

To be honest, I think Pom is actually scummier, but bigmc is a good lynch. I'm going to try for Pom (or hiphop even) but will definitely settle for bigmc.

[charter]

Do you think bigmc is scum? If yes, why?

[charter]

That sounds a lot like what you did. You voted staple for the exact same thing as bigmc, yes?

[charter]

That sounds a lot like what you did. You voted staple for the exact same thing as bigmc, yes?

This was directed to Pom.

[charter]

Let's lynch Pom.

[charter]

What do you make of Pom's vote for bigmc, serial?

[charter]

Empking, why not vote for Pom?

[charter]

To be honest, Staple replacing out when he was under pressure was far scummier than anything else he did. No one brought that up though.

[charter]

Let's lynch Pom. Two more votes will do it.

[charter]

I don't know why you claimed vanilla, but whatever, someone hammer.

[charter]

You shouldn't claim if you're vanilla, just keep silent.

[charter]

Is that for reals?

[charter]

Pom+WarWound.

Only one spot left! Who wants to claim it?

[charter]

Lynching Pom is hardly a quicklynch. 30+ pages plus she's claimed.

I'm saying you look a lot like Pom's buddy trying to save her after she claimed vanilla, which is a terrible reason to unvote someone.

[charter]

Ah, I guess it's not that suspicious then, but he should still vote Pom.

[charter]

Empking, reasons for WW? I don't know what they are, sorry.

vote bigmc

Still probably scum.

[charter]

Will read and post tonight. Sorry for not being here, kind of not that in to this game.

[charter]

Pom+WarWound.

Only one spot left! Who wants to claim it?

Yesterday, we get this post. No Bmc in sight, and now we get this post.

Empking, reasons for WW? I don't know what they are, sorry.

vote bigmc

Still probably scum.

So if I understand this correctly, based on these posts, WW would only be scum if pom were scum. In fact he wouldn't even have a case on him. Also bmc suddenly becomes scum again, now that pom is town. I am not understanding your logic. Please explain.

I thought all three of them were scummy yesterday, but I believe I left bigmc off that list because he voted Pom, so since I thought Pom was scum, it seemed less likely that bigmc was bussing.

I was asking Empking for the reasons he was voting Warwound. If he said them day one, I forgot them since the night was so long.

Warwound is scummy, and I find his posts at the start of day two to be horrendously scummy.

I think bigmc continuing to go on about muh makes him look really scummy after his Pom vote yesterday. He's pretty much contradicting his actions from yesterday. This is very convenient for scum to do, it's like he just voted Pom yesterday to get in a mislynch.

Trumpet's post was really scummy. He could easily be anyone's scumbuddy.

Alright, back in to this game, so I'll be fighting for bigmc once again. Whoever said that Warwound needs to die and in order for that to happen we need to lynch him is right. I would lynch Warwound at any point before LYLO if I'm not getting bigmc or someone really scummy lynched.

---------------------

Super Accurate* Vote Count(as of post 900):

crypto - 4(Sando, muh316, malpascp, bigmc109)
bigmc109 - 4(charter, WarWound, Kaiveran, hiphop)
WarWound - 2(Empking, Pyromaniac)
muh316 - 1(crypto)

Not Voting:Trumpet of Doom, Ojanen, mask man

It takes 8 to lynch, 6 at deadline.

*Not guaranteed to be accurate.

[charter]

Why would I be voting for you?

Also, I'd lynch Trumpet if anyone wants to. His strategy is to lurk until there's only a few people alive. Regardless of his alignment, this strategy only benefits scum.

[charter]

I don't really, just that there are quite a few people I find very scummy. You're lower down on the totem poll.

[charter]

What do you think of bigmc?

[charter]

We still have like three lynches before LYLO, plenty of time.

Peanutman, going to need you to reread bigmc and actually say something about him, or I'm going to have to assume you're his scumbuddy.

[charter]

Charter, thanks for the warm welcome to the game. One read through already was heavy enough. But to already scum-buddy me up with someone else on my first day because I don't have a comprehensive read on them, that's a bit much. Won't be able to do much tonight and am away all day tomorrow so will read him in iso tomorrow night and post a more comprehensive read.
However, it's funny you are just concerned about my read on Bigmc when I have mentioned a few other players. Might I have mentioned one of your own scum-buddies and you're trying to detract from that? Kaiveran perhaps?

I read your reads, they were very non committal and didn't say anything. Crypto, you say you're uneasy about him, then say he's acting in the best interest of the town. Trumpet, you repeat what others have said about his lurking. Don't say anything about WW. Vote Kaiveran for lurking, but really don't give him a reason to post.

I found it suspicious that you didn't have an opinion on bigmc, who was one of the current vote leaders. That's a very convenient position for a scum you to take when replacing in to the game, and quite frequently one that is taken by scum. As far as your Kaiveran vote, the only real problem I have with it is it isn't effective.

I also found it suspicious that after reading, the scummiest thing you saw was Kaiveran's lurking. Combined with a pointless vote on him, and you do look like a possible bigmc buddy.

[charter]

And also, when I ask you for your opinion on bigmc, you accuse me of 'trying to take the heat off my scumbuddy Kaiveran'. Odd of you to jump to this conclusion, because my post was merely to find out where you stand on one of the largest vote holders, but then you come back lightly accusing me of being scum. Scummy odd.

[charter]

That was an addendum to my last post.

[charter]

I find Charter's criticisms of Peanut's neutrality to be somewhat hypocritical.

Can you point out where I give neutral stances on players, I don't remember doing that. I thought his catch up post said mostly nothing. He's also replacing X who I remember being at least questionable way back when. And Ojanen who didn't look very town when she replaced in either.

Overall, he seems like a plausible bigmc partner.

Trumpet, can you elaborate on why you're voting hiphop, and why he needs to be lynched ASAP for us, please?

[charter]

I think it's great scumhunting to look for pairs even before you know a scum. They are interacting with each other differently and picking up on that can be very telling.

[charter]

Well, the last two scum are obviously two of muh, Peanut, and Sando. Nothing really left to do but lynch them and win.

vote muh

Could also go back and name a whole slew of townies, unfortunately, Staple (Warwound?) is at the top of that list.

FOS Pyromaniac.

[charter]

Eh, I would include you in that list, charter.

You might, except I pushed bigmc harder than anyone but maybe Serial. You might want to go back and read the thread to find scum instead of whatever you're doing right now.

muh might not be the scummiest of those three, however, no need to just blindly lynch all three of them now that I think about it. On the one hand, he has been surrounded in a cloud of shadiness, and going back to day one, his 'not bandwagoning' comment is really suspicious, along with nearly all his play this game, but then, muh was the one who bigmc tried to chain lynch if Staple flipped town. Based on bigmc's actions, I don't think muh is as likely scumbuddy, since he fought really hard to be allowed to chainlynch, so to just give it all up after staple flipped town (because he is obviously town now) would have been a giant red flag. I dunno, independently, muh is extremely scummy, but when looking for connections to bigmc, muh doesn't look like as likely scumbuddy as Peanut or Sando.

Peanut is really scummy, for all points mentioned yesterday, and now add to the fact that bigmc is scum. Pretty much danced around giving an opinion on bigmc, then accused me of taking heat off of Kaiveran and never did get around to committing one way or another on bigmc.

I went back and reread, and Ojanen didn't look town at all, and she also voted Pom for using bigmc's argument against staple, but she really doesn't say much about bigmc. Bigmc is conspicuously left out of her analysis.

I'm pretty sure that Sando is scum as well. He never got on board day one with bigmc, always preferring Pom, for almost the exact same reason. Only difference I found was that 'bigmc was putting his neck on the line'. Sando was arguing a lot with Serial day one when Serial was trying to get him to vote bigmc, but Sando always had a bad reason not to vote bigmc.

Actually, after rereading pages 16-21, I find Sando the scummiest.

unvote, vote Sando

Also, rereading, EtheralCookie defends bigmc really hard in 515, coupled with Trumpet's play, he could be scum as well.

After rereading important parts of day one, I'm revising my scumlist:
Sando
Peanut
Trumpet
muh

I'd be amazed if the last two scum aren't in there. Amazed.

---------------------

Super Accurate* Vote Count(as of post 1025):

muh316 - 3(hiphop, mask man, The Inquisition)
Sando - 1(charter)

Not Voting:Trumpet of Doom, Kreriov, Kaiveran, Pyromaniac, Empking, crypto, muh316, Sando, peanutman

It takes 7 to lynch, 5 at deadline.

*Not guaranteed to be accurate.

[charter]

I don’t think I’ve ever voted Pom, I voted Muh for the entire time people were going after BigMC. I also consistently stated that I found both of them scummy, but that I thought Muh was scummier, I then lost my internet and didn’t get it back up before D1 ended. Considering you claim to have ‘just reread’ that time, care to elaborate on how I was voting Pom?

True, you didn't vote Bigmc, but that's not really important. You consistently put muh and Pom ahead of Bigmc in scumminess. It looks very suspicious, since as scum, it's really nice to claim to be suspicious of one of your buddies, but do nothing to further their lynch.

I never said you voted Pom, I said you preferred her over Bigmc.

Also rereading a little bit more, mask man defends Bigmc pretty thoroughly, so he's another one that's hovering around muh/Trumpet's level of scumitude.

I'm really not getting why you are singling crypto out there. He at least voted for Bigmc on day one and two. There are plenty of others who called the case on Bigmc bullshit (oh, looks like it wasn't) besides crypto.

However, after Peanut's latest post, of chiming in to jump on muh, I am leaning more of muh town and Peanut scum.

Sando, Trumpet, and muh, what's your opinion on Peanut?

[charter]

Like I said, muh is really scummy on his own, but when you look at how plausible he is for bigmc's partner, it's a very tough sell. I'd prefer if one of Peanut or Sando is lynched. Especially Peanut after his last post. It looks like he pulled muh's name out of a hat (the hat of easy targets) and if muh flips town, I see him doing it again tomorrow. Plus he was very scummy yesterday. I'm really not seeing how Peanut can be town in this game.

I don't think muh will flip scum. I think we should lynch someone else (Peanut or Sando).
I keep flip flopping back and forth on which of Peanut or Sando I think is more likely to be scum, I think I've convinced myself it's Peanut again.

unvote, vote Peanut

[charter]

Charter, I agree Peanut's last post is weird, but do you think some of it might be due to his relatively recent entrance?

Not really. He's much scummier for refusing to comment on bigmc yesterday, and then calling me Kaiveran's scumbuddy when I asked him about it. He could have given a legit reason to vote muh (since there are a lot of them), but his reason is very weak.

Well, in Charter and Crypto's case, because of who they suspect. I look at charter's list and I noticed a common theme for all 4 of his suspects. Not one was on the bigmc lynch. Not one. Guess what, AT LEAST one of the remaining scum is on that lynch. No way would both scum avoid the chance to bus a partner and appear townie once it was clear how the wind was blowing. In a wagon this big it is extremely common to find scum in the last 2 or 3 to hop on the wagon (i.e. Crypto), and yet, not one of Charter's list is even ON the wagon. In Crypto's case the only person on the wagon was the second one voting. Highly unlikely. Way more likely that Charter voted a scum partner early on, another common tactic, and then left his vote on his partner when the wagon grew and had to keep it there to look more townie by pointing to his starting a scum wagon. Very common tactics. Also, notice the agreement between Crypto and Charter's list. If one turns up scum, at this point I would definitely suspect a connection between them. I also feel Crypto is smart enough to realize it would suspicious to NOT include a suspect on the wagon and picked poorly.

Have you actually read this game? That's a serious question, because it doesn't look like you have at all. Guess what, not voting for a scumbag is scummy, doubly so when you defend that scumbag, which is what a bunch of people on my list did. I can't believe you're trying to push suspicion on me because I tried to lynch bigmc, that's just a terrible reason.

Care to provide me a single example of where I did this? I never voted Pom, ever, I never deviated from Muh on D1 once I voted him (mostly because of my net going down), and most of my arguing was with Serial about who was the better lynch of Muh and bigmc. I don't think I even mentioned Pom once I voted Muh, while I did consistently say that while bigmc was scummy I thought Muh was more so.

Doh, I think I had muh and Pom blurred together in my head. You always preferred muh, but you made lots of statements passively defending bigmc, such as these.

I'm still happy with my vote on Muh, Bigmc has at least put his arguments out there and on the line, Muh seems to be sitting back and letting things happen, not really getting involved since he's been called out on his vote. Oh, and as for him becoming more active since being asked to, being active and jumping on the first and most opportune candidate are different things.

Bgmc, quite possibly scum, certainly up there, I just tend to like the fact that he's talkative, prepared to defend his position. I think that his attack on Staples was opportunistic, ie scummy. However, the fact that he's prepared to defend that position and not back down makes me think it was less opportunistic and more thought out than I initially thought.

I voted Muh before Bigmc did what you think was scummy, I don’t think Muh has done anything to remove my vote, Bigmc has been posting, scumhunting etc. I want my vote on Muh for reasons previously stated.

I can see why Bmc looks scummy, what I'm not sold on is that this is one of 'the most obvious D1 lynches ever'. From what I can see he made a fairly innocuous comment about voting someone tomorrow, and some people have a meta game on him based on 1(?) scum game?

He did what I, and others, thought was an opportunistic attack on Staples, but his willingness to back that up when attacked over it makes it seem less opportunistic. Someone who jumps on the wagon and never defends the position (or even posts) seems much more opportunistic and scummy to me.

Now that bigmc has flipped scum, your constant defending of him day one is more than lynchworthy.

---------------------

Super Accurate* Vote Count(as of post 1050):

muh316 - 5(hiphop, mask man, The Inquisition, Empking, peanutman)
crypto - 2(Sando, Kreriov)
peanutman - 1(charter)

Not Voting:Trumpet of Doom, Kaiveran, Pyromaniac, crypto, muh316

It takes 7 to lynch, 5 at deadline.

*Not guaranteed to be accurate.

[charter]

@charter - did you see my reasoning? Is there a reason you suspect nobody on BMCs wagon? Especially when there is so much overlap between it and Poms wagon?

If you look at my reasons for suspecting who I do, none of them are 'because they weren't on Bigmc's wagon'. All of my reasons are how they defended or acted with regard to Bigmc. Your reason for finding me suspicious is really bad.

[charter]

I'm not ignoring it. I think your constant 'bigmc is scummy, but not the scumiest' is scummier than crypto's constant flip flopping and vote hopping.

Crypto's play really doesn't factor in to why you are scum and need to be lynched.

[charter]

@Charter - Did YOU read MY posts? I clearly say I have not read D2.

Ok, then you finish reading up on the game and then post your thoughts. No sense in accusing people of being scum when you don't even know the whole picture.

Why do you not find crypto scummy for his constant defending of bigmc and his active movement of the wagon onto a townie?

Except, crypto didn't constantly defend bigmc. He voted him numerous times.

@charter - For example, I really have not seen Sando defending BMC. If he does in D2, I will get to it. For much of D1 CRYPTO was the big BMC defender until Serial slapped him down enough with actual facts.

I already pointed out where Sando defended Bigmc during day one. You need to reread the whole game it seems because Sando's preference of not voting Bigmc was very obvious.

[charter]

Why Kaiveran? I wouldn't lynch him just because he's not posting, he's modding a game I'm in and he's barely there either.

[charter]

Now we all lynch Peanut or Sando.

[charter]

I am telling you all, muh is not going to flip scum. If you want to lynch him anyway, that's fine, as long as in the coming days, we make it our mission to lynch scum (Sando and Peanut).

[charter]

Crypto, your posts are offensive and unnecessary.

[charter]

And you want to tell me that I misrepped him? You are getting sillier and sillier. Charter claimed that I was a major factor in getting Pom lynched on D1 (I wasn't, that was crypto), and when I called him on his misrep/mistake, whatever you want to call it, he admitted he was wrong.

He then accuses me of defending Bigmc, and completely ignores the multitude of quotes from crypto actively going out of his way to defend a confirmed scum AND get a townie lynched.

I made a mistake with who I was accusing Sando of preferring over Bigmc. He's trying to take that and undermine my case, which isn't going to work. It doesn't matter WHO Sando preferred over Bigmc, just that he thought Bigmc was always suspicious, but not suspicious enough to vote him. That's the main point, it is irrefutable, and Sando screaming "look at Crypto, he did it too!" doesn't mean that Sando didn't do it or that Sando isn't scum.

[charter]

Not sure who I'm voting, but now I'm back to Sando as being scummiest, probably because Peanut just isn't posting as much.

unvote, vote Sando

[charter]

So wait, the fact that I preferred someone who is still alive (so we don't know their alignment), and who many people still find scummy, is worse than someone who not only defended Bigmc MORE, but actively went after what we know is a townie all of D1?

Yes.

Sando, you can keep pretending like Crypto is the most obvscum buddy defender of all time, but he voted Bigmc several times, which makes him less scummy than you, which is why we're lynching you and not Crypto. And getting townies lynched isn't a scumtell really. Pom was lynched largely for the same reasons as Bigmc, who was scum, and the reasons behind both of those lynches were solid.

---------------------

Super Accurate* Vote Count(as of post 1100):

muh316 - 5(hiphop, mask man, The Inquisition, Empking, peanutman)
crypto - 2(Sando, Kreriov)
Sando - 2(Kaiveran, charter)
Trumpet of Doom - 1(crypto)
The Inquisition - 1(Pyromaniac)

Not Voting:Trumpet of Doom, muh316

It takes 7 to lynch, 5 at deadline.

*Not guaranteed to be accurate.

[charter]

If muh is lying and someone else is the real jailkeeper, you need to claim.

Until then, people need to unvote muh, and vote Sando or Peanut. Thanks.

[charter]

Sando's whole 'crypto is scummier than me' nonsense is totally out the window now and he has nowhere left to turn. Lynch Sando time.

[charter]

I'd lynch Pyro too. I remember him being really scummy, but then there was some thing that made me think he wasn't scum with Bigmc, but his latest voting for a claim is lynch worthy, if only to ensure that such behavior doesn't happen again.

[charter]

I really have nothing more to post until Sando is dead. I guess if Peanutman doesn't bus in his next post, he will all but confirm himself as scum. But even if he does bus Sando, he's probably still scum. There's no need to drag this game out any longer.

[charter]

Last chance for scummy people to stock up on town points. I see Trumpet already has. Mask man and Pyro, the window in closing fast.

Pretty sure Sando is L-1, really don't care if he claims, if he claims cop, it will just out the real cop. No need for that to happen. Someone hammer.

[charter]

Crypto, you could have saved yourself a whole lot of time and just posted =======[].

That said, Peanut has dug a nice comfy grave in the plot next to Sando.

[charter]

vote Peanutman

[charter]

Ugh, there was something that made me think Pyro was not scum. Let me try and dig it up.

What does everyone think of Peanut?

[charter]

Yeah, I still need to look back at pyro, but until then,

unvote, vote Trumpet

since Peanutscum is going free right now, though I plan to rectify that when I get some more time.

[charter]

We lynched scum day two. That's pretty interesting when you're town. Maybe you should read harder.

[charter]

Kreriov, once again, please read the thread. I pushed bigmc harder than everyone else but maybe Serial. You clearly have still not read the whole game, despite claiming to.

You keep accusing me of being scummy because I was on the lynchwagon of two townies, but guess what? That's not scummy!! DOUBLE BONUS, SO WERE YOU! Your arguments are very faulty, I'm trying to coax you to go back and generate some better ones.

[charter]

Yeah, before anyone claims I want to go back and find what made me think Pyro wasn't scum.

[charter]

Just because you get to L-1 doesn't mean you claim immediately.

---------------------

Super Accurate* Vote Count(as of post 1200):

Trumpet of Doom - 5(crypto, charter, hiphop, The Inquisition, danakillsu)
Pyromaniac - 3(peanutman, Trumpet of Doom)
The Inquisition - 1(Pyromaniac)

Not Voting:mask man, Kreriov, dramonic

It takes 6 to lynch, 4 at deadline.

*Not guaranteed to be accurate.

[charter]

No, this is essentially hypocop which is a really bad strategy. It lets scum identify the cop very fast, for the reason inquisition said.

No one should do it, it doesn't help the town.

[charter]

FUCKIN CALLED THAT BABY!

LETS LYNCH PEANUTMAN NEXT PEOPLE!

[charter]

Another massive scumpoint against Peanut is his push of Pyro today. Then when the pendulum swings on to trumpet, he makes post 1186, which is a not very subtle way of trying to derail the trumpet wagon back on to Pyro. This in addition to his very shady stances on bigmc and general scumminess of all his predecessors.

Also, tomorrow, our cop should claim

IF AND ONLY IF

they have differing results, since that means you're sane or insane, but either way the last scum will be really obvious. If all your results are the same, you should just keep quiet.

[charter]

No, if the cop is naive or paranoid, which is possible, then they just out themselves for no reason.

[charter]

vote Peanut

[charter]

Itchin' to finish up.

[charter]

Called that one too.

Good game.

[charter]

Good game. My guesses after I died sucked, but I picked up bigmc. Would have bet my mother on crypto being scum. Charter is always amusing to play with. I tried so hard not to think you were scum until you said the cop shouldn't claim because they might be paranoid or naive - because outing them in that scenario is totally useless to scum rofl

You thought I was scum?

And I agree, how was this a balanced setup?

[charter]

Serial, it would be dumb to out out a paranoid or naive cop because they would be a confirmable townie, if no one counters. The role is useless, but since we know there's just one, they'd be confirmed. If they claim too early, they just get NK'ed, but if they claim later, it makes things more difficult for scum.