Open 177 (Monks and Masons) - Game Over.

[farside22]

random vote: YankCane151

Haven't played mafia for a few months now so I feel like a newb trying to remember all the rules for each game.

You need to play more games Farside :p ~ Hayl

[farside22]

I almost felt like smacking my head on my desk reading the exchange between YJ and Maemuki. Anyone care to explain if there is a past relationship between these two because frankly goofiness likes this just gives me a bad taste.
Next:

Vote: Hewitt

Why hello there.

Although I don't know what to think about the Wulfy not confirming thing, or the person going after him without mentioning this. No really, its a curiosity, and I haven't made up my mind if it actually means anything >.<

Wow this is so weak. I mean really? Seriously you have a good thought and you feel like random voting?!!!
*smacks head on desk*
I feel better. Scien I don't get it. Your not being aggressive on this, your sitting back and just bringing it up but you don't want to press on it.

*alert*
*alert*
*alert*

unvote:
Vote: Scien

The only time I see people touch on a possible scummy thing and back off our typically scum. Your non aggression seems like something I see when people (scum) want to make a weak case but don't want to be agressive in it as it might look weak when it is.

[farside22]

Good legitimate conversation already.

The only time I see people touch on a possible scummy thing and back off our typically scum.

I don't see how it is possibly scummy. I think it is odd that he hasn't confirmed yet and no one mentioned it, especially for people random voting, but its just a poof of WIFOM really, and there is no real reason to try and push it as a real case.

That's why I chose the word 'odd' and not scummy. There is no way to derive meaning from this... so I can't attribute scum points for it.

For you to be legitimately concerned about my play, you must think something about the late confirm or random vote was acutally scummy and not just a curiosity, and are wondering why I didn't think so as well.

Just for record are you claiming that the late confirm is scummy? Or the fact that the random voter didn't mention the late confirm? (Yes, this is in addition to you claiming that me not pushing it is scummy too, I understand that.)

A late confirmation is null tell. I know people have lives outside in the RL. If someone confirmed late it's for any reason and all reasons.
I'm wondering why you would point something out. Flirt around the idea of it but not push the issue at all.
Like hey I noticed this but don't feel like persuing it so don't mind me as I now vote for someone else completely.
It's very irksome and is a sign I see that scums do in many a game.
There's other tells I look for but I'm not discussing as I like to see people slip up and catch scum on those slip ups.

[farside22]

Seriously you have a

good thought

and you feel like random voting?!!! [...] Your not being aggressive on this, your sitting back and just bringing it up but you don't want to press on it. [...] A late confirmation is null tell. [...] If someone confirmed late it's for any reason and all reasons.

I have a good thought? One that you simultaneously say is also a null tell? But you are criticizing me for not being aggressive over it?

Your views are all over the place if I am reading this right. What was a good thought? How was it a good thought? If its a null tell, why do you want me to aggressively pursue it?

You are not making sense lady.

---

Here let me try and ask this question again since you missed it the first time:
Your previous posts made it sound like me mentioning it was a good thought that I should have pursued. Which thought? The thought about the late confirm? Or the thought about the random vote on a non-confirmed and not mentioning it? Please clarify what you are talking about so we know what to talk about.

Don't play mind games or twist my words sir. I don't not appriecate it.
Your the one who brought up the fact wolfy had not confirmed. You found it yourself to be odd but did not pounce on it as anything more then a eh comment with a random vote.
If you did not find it so worthwhile then why mention it in the first place?
It was the whole comment I found very peculiar. Why waste a random vote on something you found whether small or not on a vote? Why random vote at that point if you found it odd and not persue it further?

[farside22]

@farside: I'm glad to see you didn't play that newbcard you decided to give yourself. You would be my vote right now were it not for your attacks on Scien.

I should have known better but it feels weird going back into mafia after being gone so long I feel green behind the ears and giggly like a school kid with my first kiss.
I know bad metaphor but it's more like a long forgetton friend that you try to feel out everything you had before.

[farside22]

Where do you see the word weak here?

Vote: Hewitt

Why hello there.

Although I don't know what to think about the Wulfy not confirming thing, or the person going after him without mentioning this. No really, its a curiosity, and I haven't made up my mind if it actually means anything >.<

Now your saying it's weak after I said it was a null tell but seeing the first post it looks frankly like your trying to bring something to a random vote but flutter off into nothing for no reason. No where do you say it's weak.
Is this a note for yourself? Is this a weak attempt at finding something? Was this attempt at anything and why did you wait till I said it was a null tell and weak to say it was weak yourself?

[farside22]

If my two phrases were weak, why do you suggest an aggressive case? What is the townie benefit of aggressively pushing a weak case?

I see weak case and I'm going to question your motive. I see an attempt at a weak comment with a random vote and pounce on it wondering if your vagueness is a slight buss, or if it means more.

[farside22]

You didn't answer my questions... again. I know you are trying to keep the pressure up on me, but please do try and address my counter concerns if you truly are pro-town:
If my two phrases were weak, why do you suggest an aggressive case? What is the townie benefit of aggressively pushing a weak case?

Please don't condescend me. I can do it too but I"m much more mean about it.
I have repeated why it bothers me.
1) you didn't see it as a weak case first post. Looking just at the first post.
2) you seemed to meantion in a second time as a muse then blow if off as nothing. I sense you trying to see if you were going to get a bite off of such a comment which it didn't then tried to fish some more to see if anyone else would bite.
Either (a) this is a trap or (b) a scum trying to build a weak case off crap and hoping others will fallow and screw up.
I'm trying to see which category you are in. Since you seem to be aggrevisely harping on me for finding your analysis irksome and weak I go with (b) as a townie looking to trap someone would have not backtracked and found my inquiry on your weak comment something to make catty comments about or twist into something not there.
Since you want to look at comments and can't seem to really put together everything I said without spinning it I like my vote where it stand.

[farside22]

Since I"m royally pissed off at this back and forth lets start from the beginning.

The only time I see people touch on a possible scummy thing and back off our typically scum. Your non aggression seems like something I see when people (scum) want to make a weak case but don't want to be agressive in it as it might look weak when it is.

This was said after your first comments.
You didn't say anything about it as weak till I did here:

I don't see how it is possibly scummy. I think it is odd that he hasn't confirmed yet and no one mentioned it, especially for people random voting, but its just a poof of WIFOM really, and there is no real reason to try and push it as a real case.

Then you try the old Lets put words in someone's mouth trick:

Just for record are you claiming that the late confirm is scummy? Or the fact that the random voter didn't mention the late confirm? (Yes, this is in addition to you claiming that me not pushing it is scummy too, I understand that.)

Then you avoid comments I noticed. This all in the first 2 pages folks. Just in case you thought you had a lot to read.

[farside22]

Starting from the beginning again.

Vote: Hewitt

Why hello there.

Although I don't know what to think about the Wulfy not confirming thing, or the person going after him without mentioning this. No really, its a curiosity, and I haven't made up my mind if it actually means anything >.<

This sounded to me like hmmm why would someone vote random for someone who is not confirmed.
I did say it was a good idea and that was a poor choice of words but it seemed like to me you had a thought and decided to toss it away and random vote instead which is odd.

I don't see how it is possibly scummy. I think it is odd that he hasn't confirmed yet and no one mentioned it, especially for people random voting, but its just a poof of WIFOM really, and there is no real reason to try and push it as a real case.

Again you don't call it weak here. You call it WIFOM but you go and say that it's really WIFOM. Why would you bring up something you felt was WIFOM in the first place? Why would you casually throw it out their but then just again back off on it like it was nothing?

Please don't condescend me. I can do it too but I"m much more mean about it.

You aren't doing it? I've definitely been getting that vibe. I can assure you on my end, that it is unintentional. I just want my questions answered as well. You can beat up on me all you want, but I'm not going to stop looking around because of it.

This made me LOL. If I have been condescending I appologize. I'm just finding things you say a bit flippant. As well as the fact you focas on one comment but you note I keep saying weak. You want to twist this like I was the one capatizling on a weak statement, which I did not. I asked why you were not aggressive on it.
I find instead of wanting to answer some of my questions you flipped this around on me for question you on it.

Why is it anti-town in my eyes for someone not to be agressive:

See what I see is that people don't hesitate on something they find whether odd or WIFOM in random stage. Some people use it for traps. Some use it for talk.
But to see someone hesitate as you did in the beggining dancing around the subject felt like someone trying to come up with fluff and see who agrees with it.
You have been around long enough I see to know that someone who doesn't confirm right away is a null tell.
Your first too comments then your questioning of me with your I don't know how I should react and why is this scummy really just ring insincere in my ear.

[farside22]

The I need more sleep Vote Count

Maemuki: Zazie, Maemuki, Wulfy
Hewitt: Scien, Yankcrane
Wulfy: ODDin, YamiJoey
Scien: Farside22
Nikanor: ElectricBadger
YamiJoey: Nikanor

Not Voting: hewitt, Fuzzyman

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline is 3 weeks from now. Tuesday 17th November, 9pm English time

Hugs and Kisses
Haylen xxx

Scien: you seem to misunderstand me. I notice that very few scum now how to be aggressive in the beginning of the game. They either followers, or they hem and haw or backtrack or make wishy washy comments. I don't go after the agressive person. typically scum watches, waits and doesn't do much else.
I don't like to see a observation then just backing out on it.
Plus I did ask as a player who's been around for awhile why would you bring up something you know to be a null tell?

[farside22]

You would be my vote right now were it not for your attacks on Scien.

Explain, please. It makes me think that you suspect Scien now, yet you're voting YJ. Which one is scummier? Why?

Asking stupid, easily deflected questions is scummy. It appears to be participating, but instead of actually adding content that you make, you are having others add content. Also, are you not self voting at this point? Why maintain it?

I saw this too but not that I know Maemuki's play style but so far it has given me nothing warm, fuzzy or substantial. She's somebody I feel is either anti-town or scum. I'm not voting on her as anti-town is dangerous however one thing I learned with this set up. Mafia and wolf both want to win and will eventually look at the anti-town and attack them. Plus I feel like scien is backing off a bit too much and his attacks are more troubling to me.

Bullshit. Look at the track record and her standing. Clearly that was to force players off their guard by luring them into attacking her because she could easily defeat them in arguments, I'm sure. This would be an interesting move as either side which means it tells nothing of alignment but of her clever play style. And yes, you will read walls and analyze and play hardcore or you will get lost, lose interest, and replace out. Or be zwetschenwasser. Either way, you better be the first or this will be a long, tedious, and boring game.

Back to the person I'm voting:
What do you think of the scien/farside discussion.

Not really it's been almost 3 moths or longer (I lost track) since I played mafia. My last few months before giving it up I lost a lot of interest in the game it's self. I don't feel like a great record after being gone and running into players I never heard of. It's like starting a new.[/quote]

[farside22]

I hope this is right Vote Count

Maemuki: Zazie, Wulfy
Hewitt: Scien, Yankcrane
Wulfy: YamiJoey
Scien: Farside22
Nikanor: ElectricBadger
YamiJoey: Nikanor
Farside22: ODDin

Not Voting: hewitt, Fuzzyman, Maemuki

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline is 3 weeks from now. Tuesday 17th November, 9pm English time

Lots of love
Hayl xxx

MAEMUKI"
Not really. There are many people on the site, some play aggresively, others don't, right? It depends, so aggresiveness is a null-tell on my eyes. Why do you think that scum wouldn't be as aggresive as any other townie?

Honestly I haven't played as I said in a few months and the last time I played only a rare few could pull of being aggressive scum.
Being aggressive means attention and you have to have a point that is not wishy washy or meaningless or you back off then look scummy for backing off. It never works well for many I see who are scum.

zazie

:

Farside, what does the bolded in the quote from Scien say to you?

I wasn't talking about his first post Zazie. He didnt' bring up weak till after I did was what I was trying to say there. His first statement was why this.
I call it a null tell. He says later if it's a null tell why be aggressive.
Basically everything I said he says he meant later.

Oddin

Could well be read as: look how extremely and terribly aggressive I'm being right now. Ergo: I'm not scum.

I was asked from scien why I felt him not being aggressive was bad and I was answering the question. I get the impression reading your comments that you didn't read the exchange between us at all.

All in all. Call it tunnel vision but everything I said Scien said after the fact.
I called it a null tell that wulfy had not confirmed but Scien was the one to bring it up as a musing. Then backs off when questioned further on it. Then attacks me for questioning his lack of aggression.
Whether his point had merit or not I don't like people musing about something then RVS for no reason. He backtracked, attacked, then conceded and cowered. None of this rings for me any town readings.

[farside22]

No, I never self-voted period before. I randomly felt like it. As for the reason, I wanted to make discussion. It worked, didn't it?

Well, we have discussion now. But most of it isn't caused by your selfvote or wagon. It barely brings any discussion and a selfvote is most of the time a distraction.

My problem with self votes is in large part do to Nat. He always self voted to prove it was a null tell and others started fallowing the trend to the point it wasn't a discussion starter any more just as zazie said a distraction.

[farside22]

The head desk was actually because of YJ and Maemuki exchange. It made me want to cry. Also note I'm very sarcastic person and it's just my nature to be sarcastic.

@zazie: I may be tunnel visioned. I always feel I could be but most of the talk was just me and scien going back and forth anyways with little said from anyone else on the matter.

[farside22]

Well, your assurance is good enough for me.

Unvote Maemuki, Vote Nikanor

for not posting yet.
.

I really think talking about those who haven't posted on day 1 is a bit much but that was not the case here. Nik had posted and recently.
I'm not sure if you were giving less pressure off Maemuki or why. This vote at this time makes no sense.
Did nik talk before or after this vote?
I have to recheck who said what at what time I'm a bit busy to get to it right now.

In my last game town lost to a trio of lurker-scum. Another game we were both involved in is now over 5 months long because of lurkers and inactives. So I'm getting kind of touchy about the subject and starting to lean towards the Lynch All Lurkers mentality.

This is understandable especially as I can point to numerous games were scum lurked FTW but this early once again and voting on someone who did post that day again it makes no sense.
Why push for a lurkers right now out of curiousity? Do you not have a say about others in the game and comments made so far? Is so what are they?

[farside22]

I really think talking about those who haven't posted on day 1 is a bit much but that was not the case here. Nik had posted and recently.
I'm not sure if you were giving less pressure off Maemuki or why. This vote at this time makes no sense.

Not sure what you're saying here. Could you rephrase?

Why push for a lurkers right now out of curiousity? Do you not have a say about others in the game and comments made so far? Is so what are they?

I have had things to say - Iso me? And my vote now has nothing to do with not posting - it's due to Nik's first post, as I mentioned in response.

first comment: Basically it's day 1. Not many talked so far. You had a RVS vote but change to a vote on someone who had not said a word that day.
I do not understand why you would change from a RVS to a non talker so early in the game.

Second: I can see why nik's comments bother you now.

[farside22]

Why does it seem that everybody is justifying everything with, "It doesn't matter since you were nowhere close to lynch"? A vote is a signifier of intent to lynch.

Is this really all you have to add so far?

[farside22]

first comment: Basically it's day 1. Not many talked so far. You had a RVS vote but change to a vote on someone who had not said a word that day.
I do not understand why you would change from a RVS to a non talker so early in the game.

Isn't this - voting for a weak reason rather than a random one - exactly what you've been attacking Scien for NOT doing?

I hate people that avoid questions like this.
First my question is valid. As you explained to zazie you went down the list and nik was the first person not to say a word but again it's day 1 we just started and you switched from RVS to sort of random with a reason. Now you have a reason but I want to know why not wait to vote if your intent is more to focus on the quiet at first then do a RVS to a semi random vote in one day.

[farside22]

I was asked from scien why I felt him not being aggressive was bad and I was answering the question. I get the impression reading your comments that you didn't read the exchange between us at all.

I have read the exchange well enough, thank you, and yes, I know this comment was triggered by you answering a question. However, it feels to me you used it to say "look here, look here, I'm not scum." It's a gut feeling, I feel like you, umm, "overexplained" with this post.

Yet the only reason for you vote is because I was explaining why I don't like scein's lack of agression and I'm defending my statement that you pointed out because you seemed focas on something that was an explaination to another player and not a hey look I'm agressive so I must not be scum as you so put it and yes that is twisting someone's words.

[/quote]

[farside22]

It's not something to be annoyed over so much. farside seems overly emotional over this. Reading over the whole exchange makes me wanna go "jeez, come down..."

First of all I hate rehashing the same thing over and over again. I don't like repeating myself. It's a personal annoyance. Second if anyone reads my past games I'm emotional. It's a null tell but it's a fact.

Am I the only one noticing Oddin pointing out my flaws and reaction but neglecting to mention scien at all and his reactions to being called out?
Or the fact that Oddi pointed to an explaination and seems to twist it into something insubstantial that is pure conjection and not fact based?
Zazie so far is the only one to point out that his statement about my comment, although not something I said, can be looked at either way.

[farside22]

The Machete/Flamethrower Vote Count

Maemuki: Zazie, Wulfy
Hewitt: Scien, Yankcrane
Wulfy: YamiJoey
Scien: Farside22
Nikanor: ElectricBadger
YamiJoey: Nikanor
Farside22: ODDin

Not Voting: hewitt, Fuzzyman, Maemuki

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline is 3 weeks from now. Tuesday 17th November, 9pm English time

your loving mod
Hayl xxx

Not avoiding your question. My answer included my reasoning - that a very weak reason for a vote was better than a completely random vote. My question to you was also valid: what makes my vote different than what you attacked Scien for not doing?

I don't understand what your asking here. What does scien have to do with what you did?

Quote tag fixed ~ Hayl

[farside22]

farside: I voted for you on the 3rd page of the first day of the game, with no other votes against you. At this stage, I don't see my vote as expressing "I want you lynched at the end of this day". It's meant to pressure you. It's there so I can analyse the way you and others react to it. At the moment, I don't see anyone at all I want to actually lynch - all current arguments are pretty weak, mine included.


Meta on you being emotional and aggressive as town will certainly help. If this is indeed a matter of playstyle , my suspicion of you will drop. As I've said, my perception is somewhat coloured by a recent game where scum acted in a way quite similar to yours here (bussing their scumpartner, actually, but considering that right now is too big a logical leap).

What is a vote to you except an expression of someone you find scummy if it's not someone you think should be lynched? Should I not defend my actions to your comment and let it slide is that not scummy as well?

Well yes, but the argument started in the RVS. I just didn't like farside gunning for Scien right away.

I really wish I was a multi voter right about now. You would be my second suspect at this point.
On a serious note is there something wrong with getting out of the RVS stage?

[farside22]

Not avoiding your question. My answer included my reasoning - that a very weak reason for a vote was better than a completely random vote. My question to you was also valid: what makes my vote different than what you attacked Scien for not doing?

I don't understand what your asking here. What does scien have to do with what you did?

You attacked Scien because he cast a random vote rather than pursue a weak lead (wulfy not having confirmed).

You attacked me because I cast a vote for a weak reason (Nik not posting) rather than a random one.

Is there something I'm missing, or a way to reconcile these actions? Right now I can only read your actions as hypocrisy; casting accusations without any real basis in an attempt to lynch innocents.

attack is a strong word. I questioned your vote and reasoning for you vote. Nothing more and nothing less.
Do you find it wrong for people to question a vote? If so why?
Should it really matter when the vote was cast whether the start or the middle if the vote is somthing other then random would you not question it yourself and find a reason to see if it's just fluff?

[farside22]

Perhaps a strong word, but I think suitable. I've given plenty of reasoning for my vote, and repeatedly stated that the alternative was a random vote.

I do not understand why you would change from a RVS to a non talker so early in the game.

I don't believe you, not after all your interrogations when Scien voted randomly.

Lurker lynching is typically scum driven hence my questioning of your vote. Although after you had a point you made on Nikor. I still want to ask why the change of heart from RVS to lurker voting.
Now that is more clear as to a deffinate is more of a what changed your mind but looking in whole at your reasoning is not my questioning.

[farside22]

Not avoiding your question. My answer included my reasoning - that a very weak reason for a vote was better than a completely random vote. My question to you was also valid: what makes my vote different than what you attacked Scien for not doing?

I don't understand what your asking here. What does scien have to do with what you did?

You attacked Scien because he cast a random vote rather than pursue a weak lead (wulfy not having confirmed).

You attacked me because I cast a vote for a weak reason (Nik not posting) rather than a random one.

Is there something I'm missing, or a way to reconcile these actions? Right now I can only read your actions as hypocrisy; casting accusations without any real basis in an attempt to lynch innocents.

Do you know scien to be innocent? Are you saying that my reasons forl attacking scien lacked merit?

[farside22]

I know this wasn't addressed to me, but I would like to point out, I understand what you guys are saying about aggression and that's not what I asked you. I asked you why you think I should have aggressively pushed an extremely weak case. I would like to point out the difference since it is still something I don't understand.

RVS stage can be used or not used by people. Making a point about something odd or weak but still placing a RVS is just out of sorts for me. I'm more concerned not that you point out wulfy's nonconfirm but the second thing that seemed off to me.

Although I don't know what to think about the Wulfy not confirming thing,

or the person going after him without mentioning this

[1] Did I ever treat it as more than a musing?
[2] How do you back off from a musing?
[3] No, I attack you for wanting me to be more aggressive with no backing. You can attack me for being non-aggressive all you want, I am still confused about how you can fault me for bringing up weak points, then also fault me for not aggressively making a case from them.

1] part of it felt like more then musing the first 2 lines is more of quetioning with a thought if there was anything. In fact you state yourself it was an observation

[1] No. It was an observation.
[2] No, it wasn't an attempt of anything but an observation. Why did I wait? I didn't, I believe part of the post that you are complaining about said: "No really, its a curiosity, and I haven't made up my mind if it actually means anything." Did I say it was scummy? No I said it was a curiosity.

#2]

I think it's obvious. So why did you choose as you did, Scien?

It has been suggested that I should have tried to push that observation as a case. Let's just take a second to see what would have happened.

I post a comment about the situation, which utilizes WIFOM and is fairly weak without anything to support it. Since this is early game there is nothing to support it yet.

So in this "choose your own adventure", I immediately attack ODDin on the grounds that he is 'random' voting for an inactive, someone who wouldn't have defended themselves. (Or I guess Wulf on the grounds of the late confirm. Depending on which I wanted to pressure more). I would have to overextend a lot here, because it IS early game and there's nothing to back me up.

Town/scum catch this, and depending on their alignment will manipulate it, or be critical of it. I will get accused for pushing a weak case, and fabricating suspicion. Mainly pretty anti-town stuff. Pressure is immediately taken off ODDin in favor of me, and we are in the same mess as we are now for different reasons.

It doesn't matter what alignment I had at that time. It was a bad idea to use a weak observations in ANY case. I am now caught in a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.

"Why were you pushing a weak case on someone when you didn't have much to go on. You are manipulating the situation scum."

Or.

"Why did you not use your observation in an attack on ODDin or Wulf. You are manipulating the situation by pushing cases that you don't want to be involved in. Scum."

Of course I didn't foresee how much trouble I would get into for not pushing a weak case. Wow, that last sentence is not something I ever expected to have to say.

#3] See my comments in part 1.

How do you backtrack from a musing? How is attacking anti-town? I conceded, where?

This seemed to me like backing down -

Nope I understand that perfectly. But arguing against it is going to be impossible, because just as the accusation is a bit of WIFOM, even if experience shows it holds, any defense is also going to be based in WIFOM.

I really haven't been around

that

long. This would be my eighth game, not counting other ongoings, but I am not hiding behind that. Eh? Just to see what kind of reactions I would get I suppose. I was definitely surprised to get a huge push back from you saying I should have used it in an attack. I just didn't think it was strong enough.

What I expected? Either people directly telling me to STFU because it was WIFOM, or maybe people lightly speculating. Both of which would give me views on them. I didn't expect it to be used in a case (that would have been very odd and I would have been highly critical of it).

I guess I kind of lost sight of that in the immediate defense I had to make due to your strong attack. That attack caught me off guard.

[farside22]

Also @ Scien: What part of my accusations on you seem scummy and why?

[farside22]

I'm having a hard time with you. I have not checked meta, but you sound like you are very fond of aggression. That's cool and all, and would explain your hardcore pressure against me. But simultaneously I am having a hard time wondering how, every explanation I give is almost completely disregarded or spun in a negative light. I know that this is something that happens, but I am going to question why. Aggressive townie player? Or manipulative scum looking for an easy target?

My meta.......well before I stopped playing I told people never to expect the same thing from me in a game. I can be aggressive, quiet, silly, weird, annoying, ect. I don't really stick to a certain method as it bores me and it makes me easy to read to people.
As for disregarding your comment can you show where and please let not rehash the same question I feel I've answered but you don't see to like my answer for a reason I dont' understand. As for looking at it in a negative did you see the part I put in bold to you with your mussing about Oddin? It's what struck me as a good thought with a weak reason. Yes we can say it's not exciting but there was something I felt was almost a substance that you just withered into nothing. You questioned me aobut wolfy being nonconfirmed but you, yourself ever said in was a null tell.
I don't like when people say well I meant to say that after I said it. I find it exteremly scummy.
Agressive townie to me is someone who targets a player they felt made and error and relentless questions the motives and actions. If someone seems to backtrack and say I meant to say X and not Y it is scummy
manipulative scum - Well this is a bit more difficult but I would say someone who is manipulative scum is spinning something that is not there and making it a case. Or finding something small and twisting it into something worse.
I can see your wheels spinning already but I didn't not put words into your mouth Scien. You took the words and comments I made and said it was what you meant. How do I know what you meant? How do I not know you were trying to look productive and hoped to spin it into a conversation piece into just a muse for distraction?

[farside22]

scien I'm going down post subject at a time here
viewtopic.php?p=1933512#1933512
1] points to Oddin voting for wolfy but Oddin not commenting on. Lets it go to just mussing (I feel it as almost a slight scum bus or setting up oddin for later)
viewtopic.php?p=1933707#1933707
2] This is where our and yes I say our miscommunication starts. The good idea was about oddin. The weak idea is wolfy. You talk about it being null (my words) in regards to wolfy but what you failed to realize or see I thought the musing on Oddin was valid
viewtopic.php?p=1933895#1933895
3]Again you this post bothers me the most because your using a second post but miss the fact that once again I was the first one to bring up you weak comment. You seem to suggest here that you brought it up before me which was not the case. Also now your saying observation but you don't feel like capitalizing on it just to get out of the RVS.

Long story short there is NO manipulation here, I am not trying to fool anyone. Your initial complains were worded as to criticize me for not pushing 'a good idea'. A 'good idea' that you call a null tell and criticize me later for even bringing up in the first point. I saw this as an inconsistency and tried to question over it, but apparently pissed you off in doing so.

4] this is such a bad spin here. This was a lot of back and forth on this at this point. You turned this into a 180 basically playing the victum of the damned if I do, damned if I don't.

viewtopic.php?p=1934140#1934140

This again is a spin of playing the victium. You want to turn this into a damned if you do, damned if you don't moment. I hate to see people want to play UTR as it screams scum to just come back and say but if I did this then I would have been attacked.
Please grow some balls and just do it. If you don't do it people are going to question you about it.
Having a musing about something and just siting on it to see if convo happens is one thing but you didn't do that. Instead you go into well it was a weak tell anyways why should I have to a well if I did say something then I would have been attacked for bringing up a weak excuse.

A town person doesn't worry about what people think is scummy. They look for what is scummy enough said.

[farside22]

This complaint is silly. The moment you started attacking me on it, no one had any desire to comment further on it, they wanted to stay out of the crossfire.

Not true. Most people responded to the arguement there are a few staying out of it and trust me I'm notice those that are.

[farside22]

@Farside: You've ignored my request for meta of you being emotional and getting annoyed and agitated over arguments.

I didn't really see you asking for it. I will have to go looking for this. I don't have any of my games saved into a file like others.
I would jokingly say go looking at any game with me and empking but I don't think you have a sense of humor.

As for the head desk I missed i said it twice. Mostly I do it for sarcasm reason's. I saw 3 people doing things that make be just hurt a bit from the lack of real scum hunting I just always feel like smacking my head with my hand.

[farside22]

This is the first game I thought of when I say I'm emotional and hot headed.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10231
Honestly there are others but I can't remember the name of those games right now. I will go looking if you want me to for more examples of my verbal aggression.

[farside22]

I would jokingly say go looking at any game with me and empking but I don't think you have a sense of humor.

Ouch.

Sorry that was more harsh then I intended.

[farside22]

I'm going to reread everything by everyone tomorrow. Weekends are always really nuts. If I have a chance today and don't feel as sick as I think I will feel I will do it today

[farside22]

I got a head cold right now. I have little to no energy to read or think. I hope to feel better tomorrow.

[farside22]

I'm finally feeling better today. I will read thru everything and give my points today for sure.

[farside22]

Did my read and I have a few questions to different people.
YJ - seems to be a jokerster of sorts. I don't really get how claiming a role that doesn't exist in the game will promote discussion. I don't care that it's RVS I don't see wagon on someone a real good thing but that's just me. Do you find something wrong with having a discussion so soon?
Maemuki - Why do you want people to wagon you? Seriously going through 1 random vote to another is that your typical play style? Post 35 nikanor was talking about my newbie comment and about me but comes back to say I'm town (this is in regards to your post 35)
EB - Why did you fall into this joke of a band wagon? What was the assurance from maemuki that you talked about in post 25? Please explain what you meant in post 36 to nik. I don't see how nik is calling anyone really scummy. Most people feel that anyone who uses the newbie defense is more likely scum. Do you find this normal? I do want to comment about post 43 and EB's annalysis of scien. As that was my biggest issue with how he presented himself. Enough said on that subject. What about my argument with the OPen queue and the game here is giving you doubts?
Oddin post 56: Again I don't like how he twist the discussion being made as a negative. As zazie points out later that comment can be interputted either way. I feel like this twisting comments like this to be highly scummy.
fuzzyman post 87: This is fuzzy's first post which I don't care for at all. With everything going on and that is the best he comes up with! It just boggles me to no end. Post 94 Where do you see Oddin saying the exchange between me and scien is a lot of nothing? He seems to have made case against me from what I saw. What is your point in post 168?
Zazie: Why are you voting against scien?
Hewitt post 167: This makes no sense. If you find me the scummiest player you should be voting for me at this point. There is no reason to withhold a vote. If a player is the scummies you find why are they not lynch worthy? Do you see anything that fuzzy has done that you would consider scum hunting?


Right now on reread I have to agree with the fact that fuzzy isn't trying to do anything this game. The biggest post he made wasn't that great in my eyes. Oddin for his use in twisting an explaination into something scummy. I typically see scum use this move on others. Putting words in someone's mouth is a bit scum tell for me. YJ is doing even less then fuzzy and yet no one seems to really be calling him on this. Is he typically useless?
I still don't like scien but I can see the hypocrissy comment but I still, still don't like when someone ask questions to me without answering the questions first and then following my reasoning as their own. If makes me feel all sorts of scum vibes.
For now.

unvote:
vote: Oddin

[farside22]

Must... not... respond... so... hard....

Is this directed to me? Or is this like saying I'm not going to say a worday a word type thing? Which I typically say "no comment from the peanut gallery".

[farside22]

I feel that the Scien point I brought up in 168 was the most important one that you haven't answered. That's why I mentioned it. And to be quite honest, I feel somewhat inclined to go ahead and vote you if you don't care to do so.

How did I not answer it?

[farside22]

For now.

unvote:
vote: Oddin

Ladies and gentlemen, OMGUS.

Did you not even read my reason's for the vote? That is not OMGUS. OMGUS is I vote you for voting me. That is clearly not the case. Again you twist things that are not fact.

[farside22]

Quite the barrage of questions, and of all things about my RVS votes, not my later ones with real content. Why are you playing so aggressively on weak tells this game?

I did say I was rereading the game. Have you never done that and gone back to things you missed and wanted to question?
Honestly the rest of what you said has been I partially agree and a partial I disagree but nothing scummy and mostly town read.

[farside22]

Yeah, like you'd say "I vote ODDin because he voted me". You voted me because of the argument I laid out against you. This certainly makes it feel like OMGUS. OMGUS means that I suspect that the true reason behind your vote isn't the one you've stated - and I do.

Other than that:
1) This is hardly new material. You commented on this argument long ago, and nothing new was said about it in quite some time. Why did you vote for me only now?

2) What you're doing is hypocritical. Earlier, you've voted Scien for not pushing a weak case. Now you're voting me because I did push a weak case.

3) This is the second time now you're accusing me of not reading things, which feels like you attempting to invalidate my arguments. I am reading what you're saying, and I know what's going on. When I say something, it means I think so even if other things have been said on the subject matter - that is, it means I think you're lying.

1) I was arguing with scien at the time and frankly focused on that more then others.
2) your case is'nt weak it's a fabrication and a twisting of words
3) you are calling it OMGUS which is not the case and when I read what you write I see nothing so far that shows you read what I wrote. You focus on one comment but not the whole thing. You pick out things and twist into something it's not. Hench my vote on you. It has nothing to do with your case on me. It's how you word things to make it more scummy when if you read everything stated it can be interputed any way but you put it as scummy.
Once again I find you twisting words which I see scummy.

[farside22]

"Or is this like saying I'm not going to say a worday a word type thing?".

This was a typo. I was asking if you were just trying to say I'm not going to say a word. Hence my no comment from the peanut gallery after that sentence.

As for the rest and just really a last question on the subject for now Scien. How long was I supposed to wait till you stated that your first message was weak? If no one has said anything to you about it would you even have brought it up yourself?

Last comments and I forgot who mentioned this right now, but I am trying not to bring up pairings right now as there are mason's and monk teams in the game and I don't want to show scum who I see as pairing till someone lynched turns up scum or is about to be lynched then I would comment on a pairing with said player.

[farside22]

1) I take this as you saying your vote on Scien had gone stale, so you went back to stuff you had already commented on on page three to get a new vote.
2) Show how it's a fabrication. Your ODDin vote does, in fact, look like OMGUS, as you are not showing how it twisting your words.
3) Quote yourself. Show us the context that you think ODDin is taking your material out of, and I will believe you. Simply saying, 'You're twisting my words,' is not an adequate defense.

1) I would vote scien again but there is more then one scum. I'm not satisfied with everything but and I say but a few things he said lead me to back off and see if maybe I'm wrong about my read on him.
2) How is is OMGUS?
3) I will do that in my next post but the fact you bring up the first one that is my initial issue and just push it off as not twisting words which others have mentioned really make me leary of you

[farside22]

I see OMGUS as an attempt to discredit your attacker by making him look scummy, thus discrediting his argument. This is what you appear to be doing.

This is what you appear to be doing as you are not providing adequate justification for your vote. Nowhere do you prove, attempt to prove, or even take steps toward an attempt to prove the hypothesis that ODDin is twisting your words.

You showed yourself the quote in question. If you didn't know what I was talking about I would say sure let me get on it. 2 people pointed out the fact that the quote in question was taken out of context.

[farside22]

Odin case in full:

Twist the comment I made when explaining my theory on why I feel scien's vote and actions were scummy

I notice that very few scum now how to be aggressive in the beginning of the game. They either followers, or they hem and haw or backtrack or make wishy washy comments. I don't go after the agressive person. typically scum watches, waits and doesn't do much else.

Could well be read as: look how extremely and terribly aggressive I'm being right now. Ergo: I'm not scum.

After I explain my reasoning for my comment he continues to twist the comment into a negative and focas it as scummy

I was asked from scien why I felt him not being aggressive was bad and I was answering the question. I get the impression reading your comments that you didn't read the exchange between us at all.

I have read the exchange well enough, thank you, and yes, I know this comment was triggered by you answering a question. However, it feels to me you used it to say "look here, look here, I'm not scum." It's a gut feeling, I feel like you, umm, "overexplained" with this post.

Say this to me about his vote however:

farside: I voted for you on the 3rd page of the first day of the game, with no other votes against you. At this stage, I don't see my vote as expressing "I want you lynched at the end of this day". It's meant to pressure you. It's there so I can analyse the way you and others react to it. At the moment, I don't see anyone at all I want to actually lynch - all current arguments are pretty weak, mine included.

Finds scien's reaction town. I keep feeling there is a pairing here which really struck me with scien's first comment to now this one.

Yes, your argument against him does have merit. However, I don't feel his words changed the status of the argument. He reacted pretty much the way I'd expect him to react, be he town (who made a small mistake) or scum (that doesn't crack that easily).

Not only twisting words but I feel like this shows a real lack of scum hunting. Just voting on pressure with weak reason and seeing no one else to talk about in the game

farside - of course I expect you to defend. I was replying to post 97, where you basically said that I voted you over a very weak argument. Yes, it's weak, but mind you, I don't think you can hold that against me at this point in the game. The beginning of the day is a good time to be voting and pressuring over all sorts of things to stir things up and get healthy discussion. You accused Scien of *not* doing that, after all.

again he misinterupts or twist my words. Here was what was said before this.

I was asked from scien why I felt him not being aggressive was bad and I was answering the question. I get the impression reading your comments that you didn't read the exchange between us at all.

I have read the exchange well enough, thank you, and yes, I know this comment was triggered by you answering a question. However, it feels to me you used it to say "look here, look here, I'm not scum." It's a gut feeling, I feel like you, umm, "overexplained" with this post.

Yet the only reason for you vote is because I was explaining why I don't like scein's lack of agression and I'm defending my statement that you pointed out because you seemed focas on something that was an explaination to another player and not a hey look I'm agressive so I must not be scum as you so put it and yes that is twisting someone's words.

Again I wrote twice I found his comments twisting of my words. My thoughts were on paper of why I felt his actions scummy I see this once again as a twisting of words. He takes everything away I said and focused it as though all I did was vote for him which is not the case.

For now.

unvote:
vote: Oddin

Ladies and gentlemen, OMGUS.

[farside22]

3) I will do that in my next post but the fact you bring up the first one that is my initial issue and just push it off as not twisting words which others have mentioned really make me leary of you

You still need to clarify this.

Was this not clarification enough?

You showed yourself the quote in question. If you didn't know what I was talking about I would say sure let me get on it. 2 people pointed out the fact that the quote in question was taken out of context.

[farside22]

Was this not clarification enough?

I got two totally different meanings from the two things you quoted. What happened to the part about being leery when you reiterated?

I feel leery seeing you post my exact issue I had with Oddin but still calling my vote OMGUS.

[farside22]

Finds scien's reaction town. I keep feeling there is a pairing here which really struck me with scien's first comment to now this one.

I never, ever, said i think Scien is town. All I said was that his reaction to the argument didn't make me feel he's more (or less) scummy. I said this in post 151, although I think it should've been clear even before that. I also said several times that farside's argument against Scien has a point - that is, I think it gives Scien scum points, albeit not much.
So who's twisting whose words?

I also explained the OMGUS thing. No decently experienced scum votes without giving any arguments at all. OMGUS helps scum take the heat off themselves by turning the attack towards the one who's attacked them. It's usually pretty difficult for people to simultaneously suspect two people who are both attacking each other (although in this game, it might actually mean they're both scum without any busses involved, but that's a different point).
So, when a decently experienced scum undertakes OMGUS, one would expect him to fabricate an argument to support it.
You getting all that edgy over me saying it's OMGUS only strengthens my suspicion. I'd expect town to react a bit more calmly to accusations, really. After all, if you're town then you know you're town, and truth works in your favour. Also, town tend to more readily acknowledge when arguments against them have basic merit, and don't feverishly try to counter every single accusation being thrown in their general direction.

So what I'm not supposed to vote for you since you voted for me? Because that's what I'm reading here. I have a valid case I just posted all my points and these are your words

ODDin wrote:

Yes, your argument against him does have merit. However, I don't feel his words changed the status of the argument.

He reacted pretty much the way I'd expect him to react, be he town

(who made a small mistake) or scum (that doesn't crack that easily).

That is not twisting them around to make them sound better.

[farside22]

*facepalm*

He reacted pretty much the way I'd expect him to react, be he town or scum.

Read the sentence. I removed the parantheses to make it easier for you. Now read it again. Now understand what it says. Thank you.

I'm taking it more you feel town based on your vote and reasoning of the vote.

[farside22]

... What?
What has my vote on you has to do with my opinion on Scien? Suspecting you doesn't prevent me from thinking your arguments are correct - if only for the fact that you and Scien can be a mafia goon and a werewolf for all I know.

Reading your vote on me with your case all you say in a nutshell is you think I'm scum because of a comment I made explaining ti scein why I think he's scum and being too aggressive and basing that on one game where you know a person was scum who was aggressive.
Is that pretty accurate?
Did you read the game I gave an example of?
What case would you have on scien if any?

[farside22]

My original vote on you was based on two things:
1) You were far too annoyed and edgy over what seemed to be a not so strong argument. (It's not the argument itself which bothers me - it's the way you handled the discussion around it.)

you should read it then tell me your thoughts in comparison to this game

2) One of your posts made me feel like you're trying to implicitly show how oh-very-town you are.

Because I explained to someone why I find their nonagression scummy that makes is sound like I'm so towny? That makes no sense.


I have some other issues against you which have appeared later.

1) Your inconsistency regarding the usage of weak cases (you accuse Scien because he didn't, you accuse others because they did).

Can't agrue with that. I can see it as inconsist reading back but I still felt and do feel strongly about how scein worded things after the fact

2) What I suspect to be OMGUS.

I just made a huge post in which I show how I find you scummy. So far there is only 1 you really brought up to defend which I missed the scum part. Also I note it took me asking you to put your thoughts on scien and his actions to do so again it bothered me that you seem to neglect his actions.

[farside22]

The one thing I'd most like to see is for this:

2) I asked you about this around three times. I asked you where you thought the 'good thought' was in the two. You ignored the first two questions, then got 'angry' when I called you out on ignoring them. You then answered with "I think both are weak", which I took to mean you thought both of them were not 'good'. Apparently now you are saying something else.

which was in response to this:

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 07#1933707
2] This is where our and yes I say our miscommunication starts. The good idea was about oddin. The weak idea is wolfy. You talk about it being null (my words) in regards to wolfy but what you failed to realize or see I thought the musing on Oddin was valid

to be responded to by farside. I'll be glad to get to Oddin's questionnaire after that post.

I really don't see what I missed with my answer her fuzzy. Am I supposed to make something more clear that is missing? Did I miss the question to his point? No I called it a miscommuniction which I do take blame in.

[farside22]

@Oddin: So far you named one game where you saw aggressive scum. Now tell me the number of games where townies are agressive and compare for me.
Do you assume all scum is aggressive?

I've already answered to that huge post several times. Here above I've answered to a part of it again. Your post is mostly based around me twisting your words. I don't understand how saying "I think farside is lying" or "I think farside has ulterior motives" is called twisting your words.

You never said any of this. You "interperpted" as scummy showing it as something it clearly was not to anyone who read my full post and have now attached it with an think she has an ulterior motive when 2 people commented that my statement can be made either good or bad.

[farside22]

Would you say that you necessitated Scien to ask that multiple times?

I know I missed it the first time when I was arguing. I don't recall seeing it more then twice but that's just based on what I recall.

[farside22]

I will get back to this on Monday.
Weekends are pretty hard on me lately.

[farside22]

Not only twisting words but I feel like this shows a real lack of scum hunting. Just voting on pressure with weak reason and seeing no one else to talk about in the game

It's better than not posting at all.

And what was the twisting?

I'm not seeing it...but then again I'm maybe not reading this very well.

I stated that an answer to scien about why I felt his lack of aggression is scummy and oddin's response was to post my comment and say it as "i'm aggressive, look at me" which was not the case at all. That is clearly twisting the facts

Did you not even read my reason's for the vote? That is not OMGUS. OMGUS is I vote you for voting me. That is clearly not the case. Again you twist things that are not fact.

But you could be making an crap argument to support his lynch. Hey, I've seen it happen.[/quote]

Read post 240 is the long version of my case on him.

[farside22]

Welcome, Rice.

'Twisting words' usually implies misrepresenting them to mean something they didn't. I don't see that as the case; it's not a difference of meaning or context, just of importance and inference. I think the comment provides a possible insight as to why farside is playing so aggressively over minutiae - something I can't really explain as normal behavior. Question IMO is whether she's trying to be ultra-townie or just trying to distance herself from her scumminess.

How do you find that he is represting what I said in the statement that was a direct answer to a question I was asked by a player to mean what he thinks it means?

[farside22]

in case that's not clear to people.

I see it this way. I was asked a question, i aswered the question. Another player pulls that answer out and automatically pulls the "look at me I'm aggressive I must be scum/town" comment out which is not the case in my mind all I did was anwser a question asked to me.

As it has been pointed out it could be interputted either way but he is taking the I must be scum approach which I find an interperuptation and not actual scum hunting and hence scummy.

[farside22]

When a comment like I made can be skewed to be a interptation of hey look I'm agressive so I must be town or scum and you point to it as scum while saying all my points I made had merit but you find my aggression scummy because of another game I find you not to be scum hunting but using excuses to buy a vote.
Finally I was asked to make as case I was explain to explain comments I made and I did as such. Why do you seem to call it much ado about nothing when others ask should I just sit there and say nothing as 4 others have done so far?

[farside22]

Have no fear, for setup-breaker is here!

If you are a monk or mason, you should claim immediately, along with your partner. There are four available setups, and these pairings are, in essence, neighbors with one confirmed non-scum faction. I do believe it is in our best interest to make sure these pairs are listed, as one flipping scum will confirm a town. Since the odds of all four being town is 1/4, we can provide additional information to the remainder of the town for other places to find scum. It will probably cost us a townie or two, but the benefits outweigh the cost. Yes there is more reasoning, and no, you can't have it yet.

That said, ODD is definitely scum. Farside/Scien cannot be in the same faction, but could still both be scum.

VOTE:ODDin

I so disagree with this. Mason's or Monk should not claim till at least day 2 and if they can help it day 3 but day 2 would be better to claim.

FOS: RBT

You know better.

[farside22]

2) At one point Fuzzy said he's going to reply to my questions just after he got an answer from farside. While the significance and relevance of these questions is lower now, it's still worthy to note that he didn't, actually, answer them at any point.

Whoop!

1. My opinion on Scien wasn't really lowered at all; I myself disagree with the thinking that random voting an unconfirmed person is a lead.

2. Farside was maybe making temporary dodges on questions while immediately answering other ones.

3. Probably farside for the above and the fact that I'm on your side with the word-twisting debate.

@ Rice: You do know they have a whole commitee dedicated to making sure Opens aren't broken, right?

2. What question did I miss?

3. Could you buddy up any harder?

FOS: fuzzy

In answer to one question I know I missed fuzzy isn't my top scum suspect but I find his lack of comments/scum hunting and buddying up scummy

[farside22]

The flaw in your understanding Mae is that we _don't_ lynch any that claim, unless we're CERTAIN that they are going to be scum. Yes, they'll draw the NK's, but there's still the part that I know will help break it a bit.

Trying to keep the mason and monks alive for a day without claim and hopefully a miscalulation from scums is that day 2 them claiming means a better chance to find scum.
Any counter claims would be looked at for which team you find scummier.

[farside22]

The Pfft Vote Count

Fuzzyman: ElectricBadger, Wulfy
ODDin: Farside22, Riceballtail
Scien: ZazieR
Farside22: ODDin
Hewitt: Scien
YamiJoey: Nikanor

Not Voting: hewitt, Fuzzyman, Maemuki, Canada
With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Countdown to deadline is here
Lots of love,
Hayl xxx

1) They were around for a long time, but she only used them to actually vote for me much later.
2) She's giving my arguments more importance than I am giving them. I do not claim my original argument against her was really strong - I admitted it was weak and based on lots of interpretation. She, however, accuses me based on it as if I've used it to push against her much more seriously. If I assume she does understand my take on my own arguments, and seeing that she talks about them as if I give them much more importance than I actually do, I figure she must be using them as a means to an end.

1) I said something at the time you did it but I was still content with my vote on scien at the time.
2) yet your vote is still on me and you seem happy with your vote making it seem your "case" is more solid then it is.

[farside22]

So far you haven't show how i missed any question or what questions I missed. If any.

[farside22]

(We can see your AtE. It doesn't work here.)

Strong disagreement with this.

So far you haven't show how i missed any question or what questions I missed. If any.

Read again.

I did care to quote it now?

[farside22]

So far RBT's comments are just so off. I don't see the AtE at all.
Hewitt's vote on Fuzzy and reasoning just looks opportunistic
Zazie, EB and Mau all seem to have gone MIA.
Did I miss anything????

oh yes scien latest post just looked sad how in the world can people just say "well I read and didn't see anything to comment about."

[farside22]

so many words. First thing is why the hell is no one voting for RBT after his last post is just beyond my understand. Talk about bandwagon and weak reasoning.
His whole have the mason and monks claim then lynch them was horrid and worse I find myself actually agreeing with fuzzy about RBT's vote.
Instead of waiting for a claim or comment from fuzzy he actually carries through and votes on him.
I mean really this isn't scummy to anyone but Oddin and myself?!?!

unvote:
vote RBT

@hewit did you guys chat pre-game? (some mods do this so I have to ask) If so what was your impression during that time? Why do you think Fuzzy is scum and why did it take someone pointing out your weak will nature for you to vote.

[farside22]

The Setup

1-2 Mafia Goons
1-2 Werewolves
1-2 Masons (not Mafia)
1-2 Monks (not Werewolves)
4-8 Vanilla Townies

I felt the need to point out there is no way to know whether 1 or both mason's are town.

[farside22]

I felt the need to point out there is no way to know whether 1 or both mason's are town.

But presumably have the same 1:10 chance as the rest of us (excluding the mafia), not 1:2, right? Or the scenario would indicate it?

Basically it's 2 mason's be werewolf but last time I did this game it was pretty cut and dried that both mason's were town.
This case one can be considered a double agent working as mason and be werewolf, but if you read the PM sent to players and it's an open game you see that as a possiblity

[farside22]

I can understand's scien's confusion on the roles. I thought reading the role's out here that one mason/monk was town when i see
mason 1 or 2
Now I realize it's possible that both mason's or monks can be scum. Oy my poor head.
In other news I still haven't seen a reason to not keep my vote on RBT.

[farside22]

2) Who do think is most scummy? Why?

Top 3 scum suspects
RBT - I didn't care for his predessor but his first comment about lynching any claimed M/M's is scummy, his vote on fuzzy and reasoning is poor
fuzzy - buddying, talks about dogding question but doesn't bring proof, dodges comments himself. I find scum the biggest hypocrites in game.
hewitt - I found that he doesnt' vote till he's questions a big fat ? Then he votes on his mason buddy and it too looks like scum trying to get rid of town role. Serioulsy if fuzzy is town hewit looks more like scum to me on this.

[farside22]

Have no fear, for setup-breaker is here!

If you are a monk or mason, you should claim immediately, along with your partner. There are four available setups, and these pairings are, in essence, neighbors with one confirmed non-scum faction. I do believe it is in our best interest to make sure these pairs are listed, as one flipping scum will confirm a town. Since the odds of all four being town is 1/4, we can provide additional information to the remainder of the town for other places to find scum. It will probably cost us a townie or two, but the benefits outweigh the cost. Yes there is more reasoning, and no, you can't have it yet.

VOTE:ODDin

This is all for claiming and then possibly looking to lynch an M/M reading it.

[farside22]

Just a point. RBT makes this comments which is outing M/M (which is scummy) and reading this I feel he would lynch any of them

Have no fear, for setup-breaker is here!

If you are a monk or mason, you should claim immediately, along with your partner. There are four available setups, and these pairings are, in essence, neighbors with one confirmed non-scum faction. I do believe it is in our best interest to make sure these pairs are listed, as one flipping scum will confirm a town. Since the odds of all four being town is 1/4, we can provide additional information to the remainder of the town for other places to find scum. It will probably cost us a townie or two, but the benefits outweigh the cost. Yes there is more reasoning, and no, you can't have it yet.

VOTE:ODDin

After this comment and a page later hewit claims fuzzy has his Mason partner and RBT votes on what I feel was just BS reasoning and seems to be a follow through of his comment above. That's why I like my vote.

Fuzzy would still be my second choice.

[farside22]

I had another reason for my vote on RBT.
His statement about wanting to out the M/M's tells me he is not either mason or monk. Which means either (a) townie or (b) scum.
Wanting to out a M/M is scummy and RBT has been playing mafia long enough that outing a role is not pro-town.
I still don't like his reasoning or vote for fuzzy.

[farside22]

unvote; vote RBT

I don't like this vote, but I can't get the fuzzy vote to lead to a wagon with 9 minutes left.

I don't think RBT is scum, but I'll trust everyone else's intuition here. It just seems like a town trying to break the game and having it blown out of proportion by, who I feel, are probably town aligned players. Why? I just don't see scummy snowballing, but it could be.

Top suspects:

Fuzzy and EB. Not sure who I dislike more.

1) if I was ever to do role fishing in a game I would hope like hell people would vote for me. It's scummy plain and simple.
2) if he's town doing this I'm going to smack RBT later if I can find him.

[farside22]

ditto the reread comments. I will get to this by tomorrow. Monday's just suck at work.

[farside22]

vote: scien

So far he was one not on the lynch for RBT he held back and his comment about RBT seemed to me like he knew RBT was going to flip town.
Talking about this quote here;

^ I think that this is a stretch. I made the same one.

Between this comment, and the immediate vote for fuzzy on Hewitt's claim, I was under the impression that the 'I want to see masons/monks flip' was a motivation for the vote. However when I questioned about it, RBT immediately said that she never said she wanted to lynch the m/ms. Going back and trying to prove her wrong, I couldn't find her pushing this reason for her vote ever.

It's an assumption, and a decent one, but its not very concrete. You think the assumption is strong enough to lynch RBT over?

Assuming the assumption is correct, why is it more likely that RBT is scum, over just wanting to pursue bad play?

IMO, I think a fuzzy lynch would give us more information over a RBT lynch. I think I am sticking with my vote.

In this post he completely flips is reasoning and points it to what I said

Welcome in CSL.

Scien, why am I the best info lynch? I'm not opposed to going down for the team, but it'd be nice to know why.

This is in response to me saying, "IMO, I think a fuzzy lynch would give us more information over a RBT lynch. I think I am sticking with my vote."

First off, I said you would provide more info over a RBT lynch, not that you would provide the most information out of everyone. That's a difference.

This is because you are in an all but confirmed mason/monk group. Haylen just confirmed one part of my view of possible game setup. And that is that there is always going to be one pro-town role in a mason/monk group.

If we lynch you there are two possibilities. A) You are anti-town, your partner is in the clear. B) You are townie, and Hewitt is either or.

Compare that to RBT. A) She is anti-town, and that explains her apparent (although non-concrete) desire to hit m/m groups. B) She is town, and that apparent desire is weird, but gives us no motives.

---

Actually I think given the above I switch my stance. If RBT is town, I can't see her having that desire. I know she is saying she doesn't, but given what Farside suggested, I think it is probably likely. Plus she would have a good motive to want to blanket lynch a m or m group if she has the opposite anti-town alignment.

Also, the m/m groups should have slightly less chances to be scum due to being invalid for two of the positions, and possibly 3 of the 4 if their partner got one. I know it isn't a blanket card that should save them. But pure statistics should suggest that a given m/m would be less likely scum than any other person.

So I guess I changed my mind. But I still am looking at you. You have been fairly unproductive today (pot calling kettle black I am sure, but my concern stands)

Unvote
Vote RBT

Then pushes the vote. So far I see first trying to avoid what he knows to be a townie lynch to flip flopping to lynch said townie.

[farside22]

Benmage made some great points that I missed and reading the notes I can almost see EB and Scien scum buddies.
Also noting that EB talks about lurkers being scum but post have been sporadic or nil most of day 1 and today

[farside22]

still not happy with scien's response. Calling it another battle and more WIFOM is just a way to down play the scum move.

[farside22]

And... what makes it more likely in your mind that I am an anti-town afraid to lynch a townie over a townie who just changed his mind as I claimed, when going back to build a case on fuzzy?

The later. Fuzzy's wagon went nowhere you went to the one wagon that was going somewhere.

[farside22]

I'm trying hard not to be condescending.

Fuzzy's wagon went nowhere you went to the one wagon that was going somewhere.

Again, what makes it more likely in your mind that this was a scummy action, and not me switching my mind, as I was building a case on Fuzzy?

Fuzzy's case was valid. Hell his own mason buddy thought he was scum and who wouldnt' based on how he played.
You fliped onto RBT after trying to distance yourself. There is a big difference.

[farside22]

Fuzzy's case was valid. Hell his own mason buddy thought he was scum and who wouldnt' based on how he played.
You fliped onto RBT after trying to distance yourself. There is a big difference.

Whattt?? We have a claimed mason, and a fuzzy flip? Who?

Yes there is a claimed mason just keep reading you'll get to it.
And yes fuzzy flipped town mason but I still say the case against him was valid. I just thought RBT and his precessor was far worse.
I still want to smack RBT later for telling M/M's to claim.

[farside22]

Also, If I was trying to distance myself from a townie lynch, why was I pushing to lynch a townie before my change of heart? You are claiming that I was distancing from RBT's eventual flip. However I was pushing for someone that is now a confirmed townie. It doesn't make sense that you are claiming I was 'afraid' to lynch a townie due to how it would look, when both targets were townie.

I was on a townie at the time, pushing a case on a townie. He had other votes, and would have been easy to stick with and still lynch, so claiming that I was just picking the easier road doesn't make sense either.

Nice try and being wishy washy again. You keep doing this the what I did would look scummy so I did this excuse. It's really tired and old and scummy
Listen you voted on fuzzy, you made points, it went no where you went with the vote that had legs. It's a scum move.

[farside22]

WIFOM... and anytime I get you to try and explain yourself you spout the same thing. WIFOM does not a case make.

You may think my actions are scummy. But if you can't say why, then woop de do. Just saying "Scum move", "Scum move!", "SCUM MOVE!!!!" over and over again doesn't help.

Trying to get you to explain your WIFOM is not a 'old, tired, scummy' move. It's a move to try and get to real discussion.

---

There is no wishy washy stance here. You are spouting a bad case. I want you to support it and so far you haven't. Why are my moves scummy? Why do you believe my actions scream scum to you, when I could have just as likely thought better of my case on Fuzzy and moved to RBT? There has to be a reason. Why not give it to us?

you moved from a wagon that had no legs to a wagon that did how is that not scummy?
You have yet to explain this instead you throw up this wall of "well either way I was on a town wagon so your point is invalid" I stated the fuzzy case as valid. He was acting scummy you thought RBT was town then switched.
Case closed

[farside22]

You have yet to explain [moving your vote] instead you throw up this wall of "well either way I was on a town wagon so your point is invalid" I stated the fuzzy case as valid. He was acting scummy you thought RBT was town then switched.

No. I explained already. I was going try and convince people that Fuzzy was the better info lynch of the two. When I was going back and formulating my post, I thought a bit more about math, and thought that RBT would be the better target from the two since she was not claiming to be in a M/M pair (due to statistics). I said this way back when, in the post where I switched my vote. You claiming I didn't is odd.

No for your other point as well. You changed your position since, but one of your original claims against me is that I was reluctant to vote RBT because you suspected I knew he was town, and I was afraid to push hard for a townie. This was not a valid point, I was trying to push for what we now know as a townie lynch in Fuzzy while you suggest I had this fear.

Soooo. You say my switch was scummy. I say I changed my mind due to math. Why do you believe you are right? What points to me having scum motives? Answer so far? Silence.

That's because your 'case closed' case is nothing but WIFOM at the moment.

No your using WIFOM to sweep your actions under the rug

[farside22]

Again scien this was your comment before you switched

Scien wrote:
^ I think that this is a stretch. I made the same one.

Between this comment, and the immediate vote for fuzzy on Hewitt's claim, I was under the impression that the 'I want to see masons/monks flip' was a motivation for the vote. However when I questioned about it, RBT immediately said that she never said she wanted to lynch the m/ms. Going back and trying to prove her wrong, I couldn't find her pushing this reason for her vote ever.

It's an assumption, and a decent one, but its not very concrete. You think the assumption is strong enough to lynch RBT over?

Assuming the assumption is correct, why is it more likely that RBT is scum, over just wanting to pursue bad play?

IMO, I think a fuzzy lynch would give us more information over a RBT lynch. I think I am sticking with my vote.

Suddenly you change your mind on this view and agree it was scummy enough to vote. You changed your mind on reasoning I gave and backtracked. Your now using WIFOM to sweep that under the rug

[farside22]

Right... read my post where I voted RBT. I said I changed my mind in it, due to math among other things.

And if you can't say why I'm so scummy and can only repeat over and over that I am scummy then, quite frankly this is pointless. You are pushing nothing.

Backtracking is scummy. Voting on a BW for weak reason that you stated early wasn't that scummy is scummy.

[farside22]

1) It's not back tracking if no one is accusing me of wrong doing.
2) I never said he wasn't scummy. I said in the post you quoted that I thought that one was the better lynch. That's not the same as saying that one is looking townie to me.
3) This vote had town motives. You are just pretending that it could have only been scum motivated.

1. What do you think I'm doing here?
2. Did you actually call him scum in the statment I quoted? No in fact you asked me why I felt strong on it
3) I'm not the one that backtracked my comments and voted on RBT after the BW started.

[farside22]

1) You said I back tracked back then. Were you telling me I shouldn't have been pushing for Fuzzy then? No? Then I wasn't backtracking there.

You are suggesting I am backtracking now? How? I have been consistent in my views I believe.

2) Right. Because I felt that Fuzzy was the better lynch in that post. When thinking about statistics above what I was feeling, I decided to switch. It was in the post where I switched.

3) See 1.

1) I'm talking about your backtracking comments on RBT. Stopping acting like I'm talking about fuzzy
2) Backtracking is scummy, talking about it as stats is not helping you in my mind
3) how the hell are you consist when not once you said you found RBT scummy?

[farside22]

1) What are you talking about?! Where did I backtrack on RBT? When did you ever say I did? You said I backtracked in the middle of you complaining about me switching my vote. Of course I am going to assume that you meant that the vote move itself was a backtrack from Fuzzy towards RBT. I honestly have no idea what you are going on about this time.

2) See here you go. You are talking about my reasons for the vote switch, and then call it backtracking. You are implying that the vote switch was backtracking. You are saying something else?

3) Er...

1) post 474 stop dodging

2) no I'm not


Also you post in 551 was before you stated this:

^ I think that this is a stretch. I made the same one.

Between this comment, and the immediate vote for fuzzy on Hewitt's claim, I was under the impression that the 'I want to see masons/monks flip' was a motivation for the vote. However when I questioned about it, RBT immediately said that she never said she wanted to lynch the m/ms. Going back and trying to prove her wrong, I couldn't find her pushing this reason for her vote ever.

It's an assumption, and a decent one, but its not very concrete. You think the assumption is strong enough to lynch RBT over?

Assuming the assumption is correct, why is it more likely that RBT is scum, over just wanting to pursue bad play?

IMO, I think a fuzzy lynch would give us more information over a RBT lynch. I think I am sticking with my vote.

In other words you changed your mind. Then look a post later RBT has a wagon growing you hop on it.
You flip flopped so many times it's scummy.
Nice OMGUS vote by the way

[farside22]

Far

what do you think about Oddin disliking your roundabout town definition, when he himself gives one...He also plainly states his discord for people who make statements like"I'm town" and yet fails to comment on the several occurrences Scien does so.

Part of that goes under my theory from day one of scien/oddin scum team.
Oddin keeps backing my "town" comment as aggressive = scum but only points to one game as an occurance of this which is shady.
I do garner more inquiry being as I'm more vocal then others.

Tell me do you see Scien sidestepping the point I'm making?

[farside22]

I argue too much to have seen that before but it's a really nice catch I think Oddin should respond to that post.
Incase I'm not clear post 557 Oddin should respond to the blatant discrepancies in his statements.
I'm feeling the need to be crystal clear seeing the back and forth discussion and scien continuing (whether purposely or not I'm not sure) missing the point I made and trying to turn it all into WIFOM.

[farside22]

Oh and to ur other question:

Tell me do you see Scien sidestepping the point I'm making?

Which points specifically would you like me relook at? (if its past pg 17, i havent seen em yet.)

As a whole I think both of you are earnestly answering one another. The back n forth is draining to follow, but both of you seem committed. And i think you both are trying to fully explain your own agendas/PoV.

It's around page 20 I'm questing how he goes back and forth on the RBT vote, doesn't vote on him and then once the lynch nears flips onto RBT.
No worries you'll get there soon enough.

[farside22]

Ok, maybe I didn't word the correct question (I did but you missed it). Why did you think that the RBT case was crap? Why didn't you even refer RBT's case? If you thought that the RBT case was crap, why didn't you say so? Sure, you pushed for Fuzzy's lynch - but you never tried to stop RBT's wagon, now did you? If you did - please point that out.

This is terrible, just terrible stuff here. I don't see how any one person should be told they should have tried to stop a wagon.
Did hewitt ever say RBT was a crap wagon? No
Did hewitt make any comments about the wagon going on? No
Should he have? Yes
What is your thoughts on scien looking into RBT not voting him, voting for fuzzy then flipping and backtracking his comment back onto RBT towards the end?

[farside22]

What point about ODDin? That he didn't jump at Scien's townie comments, or that he identified lack of votes/views as anti-town? That was the last comment about him I see. A weak tell and a null tell, imo, not the amazing insight you seem to bill your commentary as.

I see a person who just skimmed the post that benmage made. Are you hoping by writing this that you are discrediting all his comments he just made?

[farside22]

Listen sir your the one who backtracked in the game.
You questioned RBT as you pointed out yourself. Changed your thoughts on it and then a post later lynch the guy on the very thing you found faulty. If that's not scummy I don't know what is.
Saying it was just a numbers thing or using some so called thought you may or may not have had is all WIFOM.
The final nail for me is your OMGUS vote on me. Again seeing Oddin ignoring you could either be someone buddying or a scum buddy. The fact he ignores everything you do completely screams scum buddy.

[farside22]

No... you claiming that I am scum when I could have had another motive for the change of mind, with no way to support that conclusion is WIFOM, lady.

No one can say what is in anyone's mind but the person themselves. You can lie it's not hard for scum to do.

My vote was not an OMGUS. Just as I said in the vote, you are either actively lying at this point, or you have such a blind tunnel vision at this point that you can't see anything I do having non-scum motives. Which means you are totally unhelpful, because everything I do has no scum motives. Both of which is a good target for a vote for me.

I pointed out your backtracking and stated that you questioned RBT but decided it wasn't what you thought then flipped again and lynched him how is that lying?

My vote was not an OMGUS. Just as I said in the vote, you are either actively lying at this point, or you have such a blind tunnel vision at this point that you can't see anything I do having non-scum motives. Which means you are totally unhelpful, because everything I do has no scum motives. Both of which is a good target for a vote for me.

Now who is lying. How many times do I have to point out that no one can say what you were thinking. Reading your comments about RBT and your sudden reversal is scummy. You seem to think that yelling at the top of your lungs that you were thing about numbers and why you did what you did is justified but it's still backtracking.
Also this is the second time you attack me for finding fault and now you follow it up with a vote that is indeed OMGUS I see it all as someone that is overly panicked at being caught.

If indeed you guys are going to lynch me over this crap (and it is crap, you don't have points as much as you have possible motives with no backing),

I showed the quotes in which you stated your thoughts on RBT and your post after that lynching him how is that not backing up a case?
So far all your doing is whining about my case and throwing it up as WIFOM and aTe.
If you were truely not scum you would show more comments on everyone and I find it funny that until someone brings up Oddin you ignore him as well.

[farside22]

Yep. Not a word got through. Moving on.

Ignores everything says I'm not paying attention and blows it off.
Nice how are you not scum again and what have you done that is town?
Also why is it you completely ignore oddin or even scum huntting till someone calls you out or it's close to day end?

[farside22]

That's exactly why using what I might have been thinking as a main point in your case is WIFOM, unless you can back it up.

I showed your quotes where you posted RBT in one way and then voting for him in the next post. That's pretty solid evidence.
How do you back up what your thinking as fact? How can you say it's not backtracking when you agree with me in your second post when voting for RBT but in the post prior didn't think as much.

The part where you said, "He never said a word about RBT before the vote". Seems like a lie to me.

Who's lying again? Please quote where I said this because all I found was this:

vote: scien

So far he was one not on the lynch for RBT he held back and his comment about RBT seemed to me like he knew RBT was going to flip town.

Or an honest change of mind. Support your WIFOM.

Again I showed what you wrote it's backtracking plain and simple in those 2 quotes. How is that all WIFOM? Again can you really prove you were thinking about it one way over another?

I have reasons for my vote. Not OMGUS.

So far all you said was I was a liar. That's not a case it's a bunch of quotes in which you questioned RBT but held back from voting on him. Again I said you held back on your comments. You questioned him, no doubt but did any of that say you were finding him scummy during that exchange?
How is your vote nothing more then someone who is panicked at being under scuritney?

It's not backing up the case because it doesn't explain how the switch was more likely to be scum motivated over town. Not that you will listen.

How is it considered a town action to backtrack your comments and switch to a BW vote?

Lynch me then. I'm done arguing with you. At this point my lynch might give you more information over others anyway. I think you should start with ODDin... but if you are so freaking sure your view is right that you won't even listen to me, then meh.

*Cough* AtE again?

[farside22]

The it's all coming back to me Vote count

Hewitt - ElectricBadger
Scien - Farside22
Farside22 - Scien
ODDin - Benmage

Not Voting: Nikanor, Hewitt, Maemuki, ODDin, XofElf

Lots of love
Haylxxx

Blazing? Zounds. The theme of this game has been godawful cases in long walls of text that are very *yawn*. I'm keeping up, but there's not much worth commenting on, and what is gets lost in the sea of inanity. It's hard NOT to be sidelined in this monstrosity, and continuing to press lurkers would be hypocritical at this point. I'm letting the current trolling run its course with the hope we can resume proper scum hunting tomorrow. Isn't Hewitt's case against me, which you jumped aboard, based on the fact I commented on the farside/scien dispute? ...though it seems to be going on fine without me, so not sure how I manipulated that.

Intrigued by all your recent injunctions for players to comment on one another. I thought I was supposed to be the manipulator?

Way to dodge the points that benmage made on you completely

FOS EB

[farside22]

I'm going thru each person as we speak but I need to get onto some other things.
I'm going to post what I have right now on a few players.
XofElf (Rep. CSL Rep. ZazieR) - zazie was around asking question but didn't offer much else. Both CSL ane elf said they are reading or read the game. I call this heavy lurking and questionabl as for me a town player should be more involved in the game.
Scien - I think everyone knows my view here. Add to that he is calling my case on him WIFOM but never said boo to Oddin unless asked and Oddin's case on me that was pure WIFOM.
ElectricBadger - big issues is this post lurker talk then then EB tends to lurks later in the game after this.
Also seeing someone aswser a question with a question is not protown to me question with a question Finding more noncomittently on subjects when asked here
bad, bad vote no reason? This post bothers me the most lwhy just these people mentioned Scien ask only about a few players and only to EB. Again another vote with weak reasoning here
Pot this is kettle comment incoming Hi pot!! Now that ben mentioned EB's lurker talks he backtracks noting it's hypocritcal but consider how much EB focas'ed on it day 1 it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
hewitt - My biggest complaint on hewitt in just the first 5 post is how he coast thru the game. The nail in the coffin comment I just hate is this Say What???? Finally after so much hohum about nothing a vote but it feels forced here After this it's almost like Hewitt woke up and actually did something. Most of his post come acorss as more thought out and deffinately more thoughts put into them.

[farside22]

If I did most of this by memory I dont' remember much about most of the people in the game.
Frankly between Oddin using WIFOM to vote, scein backtracking comments, EB lurking comments to non lurking. zazie asking question and being all replacements so far being less then stellar. I don't have a read on anyone else without going back and rereading.
Heck till you showed up I didn't even remember YJ/Canada who never said much of anything of interest in the game.

[farside22]

Now if you just want a scum list it's real simple

Scien: backtracks, wishy washy, avoids any real scum hunting. Didn't participate in the game unless it directly involves him don't know the jump onto the RBT wagon for reason'ts already stated. Again points to my case as WIFOM but says nothing about Oddin
My biggest issue with Oddin and Scien is they both ignore each other till someone ask them about the other.

EB: 2 votes place for meh reason. Focas's on more about lurkers I see nothing significate about EB's comments. Newest vote is on Hewitt and it's the only time I see EB voting with a real reason but I think holding one person accountable for RBT lynch is just a stretch. What was he really supposed to do? If he said anything would it make a difference? EB has lurked most of the day till now again popping up when questioned is not something I find remotely townish.

Oddin - using WIFOM to create a case, had mixed feelings with this guy which is why he's not really my number 1 suspect. Calls my vote OMGUS doesn't acknoweldge anyone else that he condemns me for when they do the same. Basically I find moments of brilliance to downright fails

Zazie/Elf crew - This is just the tons of lurking and adding nothing to the game that can't be overlooked. No I'm not into policy lynching but ignoring this blantant lurking doesn't help town. Elf is 4th on my list as scum suspects

[farside22]

My point was for us to list our general feelings and sentiments on everyone...Not simply building a case or anything real concrete with quotes and links, but just general sentiment on all to use as a base and a launching off point.

I think backing up my reason's with quotes is helpful that way people can see I'm not just spouting drivel that has no fact behind it.

[farside22]

Mod: Please prod xofelf, Nikanor and hewitt

[farside22]

Nice job scien. A little ironic you left out my lingering question on Oddin in both of our summaries, but i did ask for them to be brief.

As far as my interactions with Mae...there hasnt been any, i just joined the game and she is V/LA...from her play my only read is that shes bad, and could warrant a policy lynch if others are for this so am i. Her badness makes her impossible to read, thus quite the liability.

The YJ/Mae/Wulfy exchange..i'd have to go back and read, as well as Nik's statement.

Based on this set up and the possible scenario's I'm going with the assumption that there is 2 wovles and 2 mafia. If this a fact we mislynch with 9 players and then it's just a battle between 2 scum factions for who wins.
In a nutshell I'm against policy lynches based on this possible scenario.

[farside22]

Heh, I'm a bit insulted that you think that I am a bad enough player to completely ignore a teammate. But carry on.

The only thing that makes sense to me is D, which I know looks like a stretch to you guys. But its the only thing that makes any degree of sense to me at the moment. With my additional info of my role added to the actions of ODDin.

Just for the record, could you dump out the plays of mine that he has ignored?

Calling one player out on a behavoir and not calling out another player doing the same thing looks scummy. It looks bad and yes it looks like a scum pair. Especially the way you both blantantly ignore each other unless directly asked.

[farside22]

"He holds farside guilty for one action, that he himself commits.. "

ya ya ya... I get it now...

I believe that you calling my comments towards you WIFOM but never bring up Oddin's case on me day 1 which is pure WIFOM and never saying anything about it is a double standard.

[farside22]

1) That post was way after the fact
2) it's all so nice and warm and fuzzy instead of what I've been getting from you about it. Also it looks like coaching but that's WIFOM I'm sure.
3) again mine comments were backed up in facts showing your two quotes and the flip flop. What is in the mind of a person doesn't make it not backtracking. He didn't back anything up and you let it side till someone ask you.
4) Oh yes did I meantion how much you cast your nose down on Oddin's WIFOM as nothing more then meh. If your calling it WIFOM with no case you should have said so earlier without provication.

Again have you actually done scum hunting in this game or looked at people till asked? When exactly was this?

[farside22]

So basically I get to count on you only making cases on people when asked directly about a person? Or you can't handle pressure and therefore ignore everyone the whole time till your asked?

[farside22]

unvote
vote: EB

[farside22]

ElectricBadger - big issues is this post lurker talk then then EB tends to lurks later in the game after this.
Also seeing someone aswser a question with a question is not protown to me question with a question Finding more noncomittently on subjects when asked here
bad, bad vote no reason? This post bothers me the most lwhy just these people mentioned Scien ask only about a few players and only to EB. Again another vote with weak reasoning here
Pot this is kettle comment incoming Hi pot!! Now that ben mentioned EB's lurker talks he backtracks noting it's hypocritcal but consider how much EB focas'ed on it day 1 it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

I had a nice big point on EB and used these wonderful links that include your less then stellar votes and reasoning thus far. Any rebuttle or comments you wish to make in regards instead of just pushing it aside as nothing would be nice.

[farside22]

The Oranges and Lemons Vote count

Hewitt - ElectricBadger
ElectricBadger - Hewitt, Farside22, Scien

Not Voting: Nikanor, Maemuki, ODDin, XofElf. Benmage

Lots of love
Haylxxx

Apparently I skimmed post. i had my case pushed aside as weak and EB is a hypocrite for saying I skimmed when many a player has posted a case on EB.

[farside22]

Also, apparently your best response to my refuting your arguments is sarcasm and herd mentality.

Where is your defense of the others who brougth a case against you?
Right you skimmed it and demanded others bring things to your attention
Hypocrital and snarky was all I saw of your defense from what I wrote.

[farside22]

Hypocritical? I think there's a wee difference between missing some points towards me on a skim and asking for them to be pointed out and trying to lynch someone without bothering to examine the case.

I honestly don't feel you read my case. You call it skimming and I feel your just ignoring the points you can't answer and admitting to the one thing you cant' deny.
At this point you could have gone back to read both ben and scien's case against you and it seems your just stalling.

[farside22]

farside: farside simply can't stop tunneling on Scien. She keeps hammering him over nothing, waiting for him to say something that can be interpreted as scummy, then looking town when she calls him scummy over it. Scummy.

Some of this is just WIFOM. Your making it sound like I'm waiting for him to trip up. When I pointed out his backtracking people just go meh to it what more can be said? He argues, I agrue back. I found 2 times he back tracked statement I find that scummy.

[farside22]

Uhm for more concrete things on ODDin. There is what a appears to be a double standard between himself and farside as as well as obvious statements by Scien that he blatantly ignores, after condemning Mae for not being able to read everything.....Now there's this out of the blue lurkerness once some pressure is applied to him. (i understand rl...but wow was this timing "convenient"). I think he comes back thursday or friday....so we twiddle our thumbs till saturday.

I saw Oddin online today.

[farside22]

*added note: Oddin is responding to his other game all day today and ignoring us.
Any thoughts on this?

[farside22]

Meh, he said he'd be trying to read bits and pieces...so if hes trying to stay caught up, good. We'll give him the benefit of the doubt, and even wait till Saturday so if he didnt have time to catchup he will...after that..we give him hell .

I would too had I not noticed he was active in his other game and responding there.
It's lurkerish especially as he's being questions and grilled but ignoring it all. I'm not overly fond of people asking for a possible replacement because they are not as active just leaves a bad taste.

[farside22]

Meh, he said he'd be trying to read bits and pieces...so if hes trying to stay caught up, good. We'll give him the benefit of the doubt, and even wait till Saturday so if he didnt have time to catchup he will...after that..we give him hell .

I would too had I not noticed he was active in his other game and responding there.
It's lurkerish especially as he's being questions and grilled but ignoring it all. I'm not overly fond of people asking for a possible replacement because they are not as active just leaves a bad taste.

Ya grrrr....i dont want to tip toe on the lines and rules of mentioning other games....but maybe others should simply lookup Oddin on search and do their own research.

Lets just say hes tomorrows lynch, just based of the disrespect for this game, and the

purposeful

disregard to post in this game.

Yes doing a profile search does wonders when noticing real lurkers and not just people that are not here.

[farside22]

hewitt:

I was a bit suspicious of hewitt until just recently, to be honest. The thing that changed my mind about hewitt is his recent frustration. It looks pretty genuine to me, and frustration is a towntell. This is only a borderline town read, though.

This is news to me. Everyone says it's typically AtE, but whatever.
As for the rest of your post I didn't find one thing in which you say why you find X player scummy. It is indeed a process of elimination but nothing in your post points to why player X is town vs why player Y is scum.
The only 2 people you seem to have a point on was me and scien.

[farside22]

I just gave a short brief on the 4 I find the scummiest. I started the longer one but keeping things brief doesnt' seem to be in my nature.

[farside22]

^^ This made me chuckle.

So great you listed some names...didnt even attempt to give anything brief...but okkkk.... Lets build from there.

What have i done to be written down as "def scum"??

EB has a point about nik's post. It is supar and lack luster when it comes to a real reason for finding someone scum.

[farside22]

^^ This made me chuckle.

So great you listed some names...didnt even attempt to give anything brief...but okkkk.... Lets build from there.

What have i done to be written down as "def scum"??

EB has a point about nik's post. It is supar and lack luster when it comes to a real reason for finding someone scum.

But one can understand where he stands in the game. Sure his reads aren't back by much foundation. But now we know that...we know certain reads aren't the most concrete. Anyways whats wrong with his reason for believing his scum picks?

A process of elimination! That's not real scum hunting and like I said the only point he actually makes was scien and I the rest is meh. He might as well have done a list like EB for all the good his post does.

[farside22]

Eh i disagree. But feel free to nitpick at him and ask further questions to get more concrete answers, and perhaps case-like things out of him.

I want to push Eb's laughable list. 2 'def scum' are the two who put cases on him. Omgus much?

Oh I know EB having you as deffinate scum on that list is laughable and deffinate OMGUS

[farside22]

Ok, due to the closeness of the deadline, and the lack of posting by many players. I'm going to send everyone a prod.

I'm here!!!

Lazy mod lol. It's 00.43am. The mod needs a better timezone, Vi was right, ~ Hayl

[farside22]

unvote
vote: Oddin

Yes it's possible that monk could be scum (I think based on what haylen was saying)
I don't think having someone who is your monk partner that is not around you should just walk away. If your town you should have asked for a replacement a long time ago or had your partner proded with a personal PM to the mod.

FOS: EB

[farside22]

The only 2 people you seem to have a point on was me and scien.

I assume his point on me was his comment about meta? Out of morbid curiosity what do you claim his point on you was. Or are you trying to say the fact that he is commenting on you vs me as a pair has a single point?

I was commenting on nik's scum list in which he has you as town for reason's and me for scum with reason's but little to no information about anyone else.
Most of his scum list after is just a process of elimination.

[farside22]

Your "RL" duties aren't keeping you from other spots on the site.

Well, if you already brought this up, yes, I am more active in another game, for two reasons:
1) It has a deadline tomorrow.
2) I don't have to catch up on about 9 pages to know what's going on there, because when this game grew like a mutated monster, that other game was getting very few new posts.

Also, if you really bother to check, you'll see that I said I'm going to be less active in that other game as well.

And there is a deadline in this game which is Sunday. You keep saying you will have to post less but knowing how this game is it should have been on your watch list with note put into your computer to go over when you have a chance to sit down and read.
Also before you took your "rest" period ben was making cases with walls of text.

[farside22]

And there is a deadline in this game which is Sunday. You keep saying you will have to post less but knowing how this game is it should have been on your watch list with note put into your computer to go over when you have a chance to sit down and read.
Also before you took your "rest" period ben was making cases with walls of text.

Thursday is four days before Sunday. I did skim the game from time to time, but apparently I've missed the most important posts in here. I guess I should've set my priorities differently between the two game. My current conclusion is ONLY ONE GAME AT A TIME. But that's a different issue.

it is odd for you to disappear just as pressure is put towards you.

[farside22]

Oddin:
If you said WIFOM when did you say it was? I went looking for that comment along the way. And I would like to see it without the prod from Scien who said it was WIFOM.
Also your OMGUS vote comment was completely over the top with more WIFOM. Basically you have a case full of WIFOM you hold onto it and never call it WIFOM till Scien mentions it.
mmmm
mmmm
mmmm
yup I would say a bit of backtracking with someone who can't deny a case of WIFOM.
I never got an answer to my question about how many agressive scum you run across oddin that I became the person you felt could fall under this category. How many aggressive town players do you find?

[farside22]

Let me put it this way: if I did see the questions addressed at me, how stupid would I need to be to think ignoring them would help me in some way, no matter my alignment?

I agree that it was bad play on my part. I should've put more effort into the game and I should've paid better attention. True. But I wouldn't say it's scummy, since it's bad for me-scum as well. Actually, I think it'd hurt my scumteam, if I were on one, much more than it's hurting the town.

There was more pressure on EB then you at the time. Now that votes are your way instead it looks bad.

[farside22]

The guy is a pretty much confirmed mason with a dead mason buddy as confirmed town.

Umm...mind explaining to me in brief why you consider Hewitt a mason?

He claimed it on day1 and the mason that is dead confirmed it before he died.

[farside22]

meh EB claimed. No counter claim was made so I don't think it's a fake claim.
claiming VT would be terrible right now as it is just and FYI it's possible for a monk to be mafia (is that right I got confused which role it can't be)

[farside22]

@ Farside22: Why is claiming VT terrible?

most people asking for a claim will typically lynch someone claiming VT.
sure scum will or could claim some PR to out the role when nom'ed and then if asking for someone to counter claim and the person who claimed VT all the sudden said I"m actually that role. You better believe the person who lied would be lynched first

[farside22]

nvm I just saw the post SaintKerrigan made that confirms this is the best place to vote right now.

unvote
vote: SaintKerrigan

[farside22]

So if one monk turns up scum does that mean the other is confirmed town?
I ask because the set up still confuses me a bit.

[farside22]

@scien: First thank you for clarifying the M/M position.
Second I read the post that SK said and when she says this:

I think he used this little stunt as an attempt to draw out a member of the opposing scum team.

The problem I have is the Ben is clearly baiting him to see if he is scum. I'm not going to get into the samantics of this right now but it frankly can be read either SK is scum or he is calling Ben scum trying to draw out a member of the opposing scum team.
I dont' see how Ben doing what he did is the later.

[farside22]

The Things that make you go hmm... Vote count

ElectricBadger - Scien
Hewitt - ElectricBadger, ODDin
ODDin - Hewitt
SaintKerrigan - Benmage, Farside22
Benmage - SaintKerrigan

Not Voting: Nikanor, Maemuki, ODDin, SaintKerrigan.

Lots of love
Haylxxx

EB: in your chats with your partner did either of you talk to one another? If so what was your impression on your monk partner that makes you feel they are town?

[farside22]

EB: in your chats with your partner did either of you talk to one another? If so what was your impression on your monk partner that makes you feel they are town?

I've stated before I don't have town reads on anyone. However, I see no evidence as of yet that the spot is scum, and as a monk I believe there's less chance, statistically, than most other players. That may change either way with an active player in the role, so I can base a read on more than odds.

I think if you know there is a possible shot that your monk partner may be scum should not change how you play this game.
With that said I can't believe I'm saying this but I agree with scien's logic in regards to SK.

unvote
vote: Oddin

[farside22]

SCIEN'S VERY UNOFFICIAL VOTE COUNT wrote:

Hewitt - ElectricBadger, ODDin
Oddin - Hewitt, Nikanor, Scien
SaintKerrigan - Benmage
Benmage - SK, Farside22

Not Voting: Maemuki

I was voting for SK not Benmage.

[farside22]

@Benmage, how likely would you think a bewildered townie in that position would hold back and hesitate while they tried to feel things out?

Who cares if I can name a scenario. Claiming that someone could think of all scenarios in that position without hesitating is bullshit.

Can you name one?? You just told me how easy it was to see.

I dont see a townie holding back. Even bewildered(obviously) i see them seeing the validity behind the question and the possible outcomes.

Sorry but if I'm replacing in a game no matter my allignment I'm going to verify what Ben said as fact and seeing that he is lying I would vote for him.
There was no need for SK to claim. That was a ruse and him not claiming right way would not be scummy in my eyes.
His comments is suspect and how he worded it but I can see a bit of scien's reasoning and Ben's reasoning on this.

[farside22]

That's a lot of wine in front of me. Just for the record I did a game similar to the set up and there was one wolf, one townie and 1 mafia left. Both the wolf and the mafia killed the townie in the end so the game was a draw.
Really sucked for me as I thought I had it figured out and second guessed myself in the game.
But I regress all that comment that SK is based on WIFOM.

[farside22]

Listen I said it before and I will say it again. I can see both cases in regards to SK's comment. As for the hestitation that is a null tell and trying to push that as scummy is rediculous.
I have other reason's for thinking SK in the scum category even with the claim but my focas and my vote is staying clear on Oddin.

[farside22]

Just wanted to note I recieved my note and I'm here. I have to review another game first. I will be posting a lot less from here. Not my fault and I'm not happy with it.

[farside22]

@ben: if you think one of the monks is mafia why are you voting EB when you were pushing so hard on SK before the lynch of Oddin.
And Ben is correct this should be a hunt from mafia. EB assumes that monks are town that assumption is not something I'm willing to bet on.
Since Ben, Nik and myself have been unclaimed then the 3 of us should be looked at.
Ben's almost claim makes me wonder if he is mafia trying to look Wolf and get someone lynched that he shouldn't but voting a monk almost makes a weird sense as you know they are not wolf for sure.

Will do a read of everyone tomorrow.

[farside22]

Just wanted to note I recieved my note and I'm here. I have to review another game first. I will be posting a lot less from here. Not my fault and I'm not happy with it.

How's it not your fault to post less here?? f the other game!

Also...EB was one of my way more top suspects of yesterday...so wheres the issue?

I dont get how i almost claimed...i never did, lol..
.

What I mean posting less here is posting less at MS in general sorry that wasn't clear.
As for EB yes your case on EB yesterday is noted but you were pretty strong in your convictions of SK comment being a slip.

There is also the matter that you and Nik could be mafia making it so there is a 0% chance of town having a shot at winning and creating a mislynch. The fact you put no pressure on Nik or I with this makes me wonder more about what alignment you truely are.

@EB: Why am I scummier then Nik? How about a case between the 2 of us and why one is scummier.

[farside22]

The Indentical Tentacle Vote count

ElectricBadger - Benmage
Farside22 - ElectricBadger

Not Voting: Nikanor, Hewitt, Farside22, SaintKerrigan

Lots of love
Haylxxx

I see very few scum that is agreseive. I could point out the few I know and compare that to the scum that are quiet and those that just post little to nothing are more likely scum then aggressive.
Oddin's case was a bunch of WIFOM and even though he flipped town he was basing that comment on one person who was aggressive in a game so yes I'm going to ask for more examples which he gave.

The fact you don't want to do any more then say X or Y is scum and I pick Y to be scummier with nothing much as back up is either a lazy townie or scum hopping to use a minimal post and no one calls you on it since your a Monk.

[farside22]

You haven't commented on the theory; nor have you stated who you think we should lynch or investigated. You're letting everyone else do the work. So your calling me lazy is very ridiculous.

I haven't had time to do it. Seriously I have less time to be on the internet as we just moved to a new office and people get to see over my shoulder (sadness). I have to sit down for more then 10 minutes to evaluate each person and since my co-worker is leaving early today I hope to have this.
I did comment on the fact Benmage could be mafia with Nik trying to create a mislynch of a monk using WIFOM but yeah thanks for missing that point completely.
I will get a case. I wish people like Nik had to do something like that nice to see no one call him out on his opportunist vote with nothing that says why he thinks I'm scum.
I call you lazy for showing no case or reason.

[farside22]

This is bull. I said mafia would rather try and hit a wolfy and win, and that a mislynch doesn't guarantee a mafia win. If i was mafia i'd be right along eb aiming at the ?'s to maybe hit the last wolfy...so, you are just wrong here.

Look at it from my thought. You and nik mafia. You tried like crazy to get a Monk lynched that you know to be town. Once you lynch said Monk today mafia wins. Did I miss a beat there?

Onto trying to get my analysis done. I can tell already this is going to take time.

[farside22]

Look at it from my thought. You and nik mafia. You tried like crazy to get a Monk lynched that you know to be town. Once you lynch said Monk today mafia wins. Did I miss a beat there?

Yeah. Where did I try to get a monk lynched yesterday?

That was towards Benmage and his comment and I distictly state "you" not both of you.

[farside22]

Benmage, have you forgotten about me or something? Because I'm pretty sure you flat-out accused me of being scum for reasons you claimed were ironclad yesterday, yet I'm seeing a vote for EB. What happened here?

maybe you will get the answer that he keeps dodging with me.

[farside22]

Starting with the first person I read:

Benmage (Rep. Canada Rep. YamiJoey) - sign's that make me think no pairing with maemuki - (said in regard to Mae's play)

Shes relatively new if i recall and my one games worth of experience with her was nothing impressive. In fact i think she lurked hard too...so a policy lynch seems in order.

I'm not sure how scien's comment seen here has this comment come out:

Scien wrote:
I am looking for scum... I am not looking for small things that can excuse my vote.

Ah, so your role PM reads werewolf.
meh more buddying with mae:

Maemuki wrote:

Anybody can make a tl;dr version of Scien's posts? There's no way I'll read all that. I'm too lazy.

Ah that’s the Mae I know.

quicly excuse's Mae

Interesing to note that ben talks about mae has a policy lynch but never carried on with that idea the next day. (starts leaning more toward wolf with Mae) Ah he bring up the idea of a policy lynch but does that backtrack of saying it was a bad idea on my say so.

I really don't like the way ben defends Nik's scum list here:

^^ This made me chuckle.

So great you listed some names...didnt even attempt to give anything brief...but okkkk.... Lets build from there.

What have i done to be written down as "def scum"??

EB has a point about nik's post. It is supar and lack luster when it comes to a real reason for finding someone scum.

But one can understand where he stands in the game. Sure his reads aren't back by much foundation. But now we know that...we know certain reads aren't the most concrete. Anyways whats wrong with his reason for believing his scum picks?

I noted since I'm not lynched and know my alignment as town that since Ben and SK did not just vote to lynch me they are not possibly scum together. As I said a mislynch today means scum win.
*wonders how long some thinkheaded people are going to be*
I'm really leaning Ben as wolf at this point, but him igoring Nik is giving me all sorts of vibes and defending his list.

[farside22]

That was towards Benmage and his comment and I distictly state "you" not both of you.

That doesn't change the fact that I'm curious as to where you got the thought that I was trying to get a monk lynched yesterday.

Again I stated Ben was trying to get Monk lynched where are you getting that I stated you did this?

[farside22]

nikanor:

Gah! You started the conversation without me? I guess this is what I get for sleeping in...
I'm getting some good vibes from both Scien and farside here, so I won't vote either of them. *

Oh what a finkle mind to change so easily with no reason.

I notice lots of piggy back's that Nik uses in such a case as this:

3) Quote yourself. Show us the context that you think ODDin is taking your material out of, and I will believe you. Simply saying, 'You're twisting my words,' is not an adequate defense.
In order to catch a good scum player, one must search for ulterior motive in posts. In that way, I think it's a good thing that ODDin said what he had about that quote, but I also see how you can take that as a twisting of your words.

Mind you this is the first post that nik even mentions anyone as for as who is scum or town:

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/posting. ... 4#19927294

Longer reason's found here: As you can see nothing remotely scum hunting in this post.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/posting. ... 78#2000478

deflecting and protection SK here: Also where did Oddin attempt to lynch the mason?

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/posting. ... 8#20005388

In short Niknor has done little to nothing all game long. He ask for proof from me but never once provided proof of anything he has said so far this game, what little he comments on.
IE: I don't say one someone is really scummy so I don't have to worry about backing up those comments.
Not one single bit of scum hunting has been seen in any post except with RBT. Either lurking or making little to no. He continues this disturbing trend with none batting an eye.

FOS: Niknor

next up will be the monks but this will have to wait to possibly tomorrow.

[farside22]

Uhhh yes...A...massive beat.. the one where a mislynch today doesn't spell a mafia win...

Ah the only thing that mafia have to worry about is the night. They survive the night the auto win.


What new lie is this? Where did you ask something I dodged?
I asked:

@ben: if you think one of the monks is mafia why are you voting EB when you were pushing so hard on SK before the lynch of Oddin.

This is what you said which does not answer my question and a question with a question in my view is dodging a question

Also...EB was one of my way more top suspects of yesterday...so wheres the issue?

Also this note:

There is at best a 50% of mafia in the monks. At worst 0%.

There is either a 50% of mafia you or Nik or 100% in my view since I know my role as town.

I said she was a policy, but that there were more worth wild targets readily available. Your half truths are interesting to note.

No this is what you said:

Nice job scien. A little ironic you left out my lingering question on Oddin in both of our summaries, but i did ask for them to be brief.

As far as my interactions with Mae...there hasnt been any, i just joined the game and she is V/LA...from her play my only read is that shes bad, and could warrant a policy lynch if others are for this so am i.

Her badness makes her impossible to read, thus quite the liability.

The YJ/Mae/Wulfy exchange..i'd have to go back and read, as well as Nik's statement.

Based on this set up and the possible scenario's I'm going with the assumption that there is 2 wovles and 2 mafia. If this a fact we mislynch with 9 players and then it's just a battle between 2 scum factions for who wins.
In a nutshell I'm against policy lynches based on this possible scenario.

This is the quote I'm referring to with my comment.
Right right right...today would be a bad position with 0 mafia dead to call for one...She still shouldnt be overlooked..that said. Vote EB !??!

[farside22]

Also this note:

There is at best a 50% of mafia in the monks. At worst 0%.

There is either a 50% of mafia you or Nik or 100% in my view since I know my role as town.

Bullshit, you're definitely the final mafiascum.

How is this BS? Seriously if your town this makes sense because hello look at Scien and what he said. 1 monk could be mafia and not both. Which mean that 50/50 between you or Nik or 100% that you are both scum.
Please explain how this is BS instead of throwing out garbage.

Lol...this isn't dodging a question..you asked why go for EB...again, as i just answered SK (read shit...one answer to one, can apply to other questions, like yours)

My comment you quoted was before you answered SK why don't you read shit yourself instead of cursing at people.

i gave a most obvious answer to an idiotic question, because i've been questioning Eb for awhile now, anyone could see why I'd vote him. So I ask you where the issue is, because there is none.

Wow so I should just ignore everything you said about SK and the trap you laid and wondering what the heck happened there?

[farside22]

I said she was a policy, but that there were more worth wild targets readily available. Your half truths are interesting to note.

No this is what you said:

Nice job scien. A little ironic you left out my lingering question on Oddin in both of our summaries, but i did ask for them to be brief.

As far as my interactions with Mae...there hasnt been any, i just joined the game and she is V/LA...from her play my only read is that shes bad, and could warrant a policy lynch if others are for this so am i.

Her badness makes her impossible to read, thus quite the liability.

The YJ/Mae/Wulfy exchange..i'd have to go back and read, as well as Nik's statement.

Based on this set up and the possible scenario's I'm going with the assumption that there is 2 wovles and 2 mafia. If this a fact we mislynch with 9 players and then it's just a battle between 2 scum factions for who wins.
In a nutshell I'm against policy lynches based on this possible scenario.

This is the quote I'm referring to with my comment.
Right right right...today would be a bad position with 0 mafia dead to call for one...She still shouldnt be overlooked..that said. Vote EB !??!

Whats your point here?? And I know I mentioned other people being better targets..it must be from a different statement, and i'll dig it up from my own iso, if you tell me whats even the point of this?

Your stated I was making half truths. So you can lie and it's okay. Nice way to just ignore your own comment to me where I show you talking about lynching mae for policy lynch and backing off on my say so.
Why are you so jumpy I caught you trying to say I was lying and showing proff I was not.
You think just throwing words out and me not showing proof that what I said was not a lie makes you right?

[farside22]

Why are you still talking to me and not going for mafia...

Are you admitting you're a werewolf, then?

See and that is the other thing if Ben is wolf he has a 50/50 chance of hitting scum with me or nik. However he is doing the directing thing in which he says we lynch a monk and if they are town the wolf goes for the other monk. This basically saves him or Nik if neither is lynched today.

As for me I look at it this way. Either both Ben and Nik are scum or one is.
If both are mafia then Hewitt is automaically wolf (again this is from my POV)
Ben if wolf should be looking to me or Nik with a 50/50 shot of lynching scum. Instead I see him giving directions to the wolf.

[farside22]

mmm I just realized something so I'm going to wait for Ben to either reply with the hopes he will be rationale when posting this time.

[farside22]

SaintKerrigan (Rep. XofElf Rep. CSL Rep. ZazieR): All zazie did was ask questions so it's hard to read much into that. Both elf and CSL said nothing so onto SK

In other news: Vote: Benmage. I think he used this little stunt as an attempt to draw out a member of the opposing scum team.

So lets go into this post: Either SK is saying Ben is scum trying to out an an opposing scum (IE SK in this case) or it is what SK says here:

No, I'm accusing Benmage of being a member of one scum team who accuses someone of being a member of the opposing scum team. This does not mean that I am a member of a scum team.

Which is really hard to see it that way.

This is only true if Benmage is wolf:

I feel that Benmage as scum likely realized the scenarios I described earlier, and knew he had to try and get his team the 2-1 advantage. So he concocted this trap and sprung it on a replacing monk, because he figures if he can get one monk lynched, he and his partner will nightkill the other monk. There is a more likely possibility of finding scum in the monk-mason groups than in the rest of the players, so attacking these groups makes sense.

I have no real sense of SK. I don't think Ben's "trap" was all that as I said I would look into it myself if a players told me to claim now or die. Once I looked into it I would call them a liar and vote for them for trying to provoke a claim.
A list or something substancial where you stand on each player would be helpful to see if you are scum hunting or just floating

MOD: Please prod Hewitt

[farside22]

EB: I did my review of Nik's play. I would like now a post by post comment on why you think I'm mafia scum in comparision to Nik's play.

[farside22]

mmm I just realized something so I'm going to wait for Ben to either reply with the hopes he will be rationale when posting this time.

Go fuck yourself (inc frustrated post)

when I see a person cursing as much as you did in one post I call it being irrational ane emotional. Half of the cursing you used was unnecessary.

Again I want this explain
If you are town shouldn't that mean that either Nik or myself to me mafia? Yes or no? How is this not 50/50 shot of hitting mafia at this point?
I have more reason to believe you to be wolf but I want an answer to ths question instead of calling it BS.

[farside22]

Again I want this explain
If you are town shouldn't that mean that either Nik or myself to me mafia? Yes or no? How is this not 50/50 shot of hitting mafia at this point?
I have more reason to believe you to be wolf but I want an answer to ths question instead of calling it BS.

Again, i'm pretty sure I've answered this. But i'll do it again.

Yes between you and Nik, in my opinion there is a 50 percent chance to hit mafia. I think the same 50% rests in the Monks....I don't think you and Nik are both mafia.

Offically declares Benmage wolf for missing the point entirely.

vote: Niknor

Okay step by step now. Deep breath:
Here is what I said first:

farside22 wrote:

Interesing to note that ben talks about mae has a policy lynch but never carried on with that idea the next day. (starts leaning more toward wolf with Mae) Ah he bring up the idea of a policy lynch but does that backtrack of saying it was a bad idea on my say so.

Your response was thus:

Interesing to note that ben talks about mae has a policy lynch but never carried on with that idea the next day. (starts leaning more toward wolf with Mae) Ah he bring up the idea of a policy lynch but does that backtrack of saying it was a bad idea on my say so.

I said she was a policy, but that there were more worth wild targets readily available. Your half truths are interesting to note.

I show that you did not say anything about more worthwhile targets and below is you backing up and your exact words on the matter

No this is what you said:

Nice job scien. A little ironic you left out my lingering question on Oddin in both of our summaries, but i did ask for them to be brief.

As far as my interactions with Mae...there hasnt been any, i just joined the game and she is V/LA...from her play my only read is that shes bad, and could warrant a policy lynch if others are for this so am i.

Her badness makes her impossible to read, thus quite the liability.

The YJ/Mae/Wulfy exchange..i'd have to go back and read, as well as Nik's statement.

Based on this set up and the possible scenario's I'm going with the assumption that there is 2 wovles and 2 mafia. If this a fact we mislynch with 9 players and then it's just a battle between 2 scum factions for who wins.
In a nutshell I'm against policy lynches based on this possible scenario.

Right right right...today would be a bad position with 0 mafia dead to call for one...She still shouldnt be overlooked..that said. Vote EB

!??!

[farside22]

Why Benmage is scum soley based on his reasonging:

Lets say we lynch a Monk and that monk turns out mafia. Do you think the wolf will allow the other Monk to live? This is a confirmed town player. Ben's idea is to leave those unclaimed people like myself and Nik alive for the town to not have a confirmed townie to look upon and have.
Lynching one of either myself, Nik, or Ben means no out guessing because if we get this wrong the wolf (IE: Ben) has to kill the other person unclaimed instead of a monk.
Ben's idea is coming from someone who may be assuming that Hewitt is Wolf but he has never said this and keeps using the Monk idea to keep the town from a possible confirmed townie. By going for the unclaimed the mafia and the wolves will be out guessing themselves. and would rather not. For the mafia is hewitt the last wolf or is an unclaimed?
for the wolf assuming again hewitt is not the wolf is it one of the 2 towns or 1 of the two monks.
I'm personally looking for Mafia but I'm looking at the unclaimed with the hope I'm correct and this leaves the town with a fighting chance.
Now either Ben is trying to either direct a wolf by pointing to the Monk's or he is the Wolf and hoping to not only get a mafia either today's lynch or tonight. He want's to do it making sure that only the unconfirmed Mason alive (possible wolf) and a townie alive. This is all based on possible NK's and luck for him. But as for me it's clear that 50% chance of Ben mafia or Nik being mafia is just as clear and his 50/50 for the Monks but him pointing out how it helps the wolf doesn't show how this helps the town.

[farside22]

EB: I did my review of Nik's play. I would like now a post by post comment on why you think I'm mafia scum in comparision to Nik's play.

I've stated my reasons for thinking you're mafia. Add to that your play today, which met my expectations for mafia: even when asked directly you didn't comment on my tactic to pursue mafia (I get the feeling you agree with me but don't want to say so); you attempted to portray Ben as potential mafia without any real proof and pushed heavily in that direction (again, you seem to agreehe's likely a wolf, and at this point lynching the wolf is an instant win for mafia).

If you have specific questions about Nik I'll answer; but I'm not going to analyze every one of his posts. He could be scum - at this point I think the case on him is decent and that it's likely - but as two of you, nikanor or SK are mafia that doesn't really change things. I think you're the better lynch not because Nik seems town but because you seem like a pretty sure thing.

What tactic was this you speak of? Umm no I didn't I wrote an analysis and I said it had potentional of 2 mafia scum which is could. Are you saying you can't see mafia trying to to mislynch claiming one of the 2 monks are mafia while knowing this to be false?
Lazy, lazy person. You want to ignore Nik and I'm starting to think the 2 of you as buddies together.
Also your analysis is just a bunch of talk with no proof. Saying I was not involved in lynches is false as I was part of the RBT and ODDin lych. Where was Nik in all this?
The rest is just WIFOM.

[farside22]

I haven't read since my last post, but..
@Farside:
Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:59 pm

Still trudging:

@ EB, eeeh, pretty much wants to lynch the lurkers and no one else. Follows the town, and it seems like he's more likely to vote for a town-lurker than a scum-active poster. That bugs me.

^ Done from memory. Most likely not accurate. And I'm trying to understand the arguments. No luck yet.

Well, if you agree that farside/Scien arguing is useless...then why are you paying so much mind to it? It's mostly arguing about something that's very small, and

If you say that I've been posting more on my other games, it's because they don't have walls of text that confuse me. Just before you point that out.

This whole post read as a big inner sigh. Cant get a read on bad players. Shes a policy lynch... the earlier the better.

Although i think i'm seeing some real evident scum here that should probably be dealt with first.

Underlines what can be seen as ‘worthwild targets’

See..i told you it was in my iso, and that this was what I said...geeze. I'm not gonna lie, or stretch the truth. I'll let you scum twist and fubar the game yourselves.

okay smart guy was this before or after you asked the general question about doing a policy lynch?

*waits to see if Ben wants to hang himself further*

[farside22]

The whole point of this, if you recall was you wondering why I didn't pursue Mae in a policy lynch, and me saying there were more worthwild targets. You said I didn't say such a thing...Which is why I quoted what I did, but if you want to bring more to the table/issue than please continue.

You are not keeping track of the convo at all. I will let the others read it and I even posted how the convo took place and you're trying to out right lie on how the convo went is ridiculous.

[farside22]

By the way since you want to miss the point completely. You made this comment first:

posting.php?p=2016896#2016896
Then you made the comment I quoted about policy lynching. I was tackling the second comment as that was your last thought before I brought into play the need to vote for wolf or mafia at that point and you changing your mind based on my say so. So no that is not a lie as you just tried to say it was.

[farside22]

@ Farside: Do you know your links aren't working (at least for me)?

damn the are not working for me either. I thought I did it right. I will fix it later. But that means EB didn't even look into the case I presents so

FOS: EB

[farside22]

fixed links in quote now.

nikanor:

Gah! You started the conversation without me? I guess this is what I get for sleeping in...
I'm getting some good vibes from both Scien and farside here, so I won't vote either of them. *

Oh what a finkle mind to change so easily with no reason.

I notice lots of piggy back's that Nik uses in such a case as this:

3) Quote yourself. Show us the context that you think ODDin is taking your material out of, and I will believe you. Simply saying, 'You're twisting my words,' is not an adequate defense.
In order to catch a good scum player, one must search for ulterior motive in posts. In that way, I think it's a good thing that ODDin said what he had about that quote, but I also see how you can take that as a twisting of your words.

Mind you this is the first post that nik even mentions anyone as for as who is scum or town:

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 94#1997294

Longer reason's found here: As you can see nothing remotely scum hunting in this post.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 78#2000478

deflecting and protection SK here: Also where did Oddin attempt to lynch the mason?

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 8#20005388

In short Niknor has done little to nothing all game long. He ask for proof from me but never once provided proof of anything he has said so far this game, what little he comments on.
IE: I don't say one someone is really scummy so I don't have to worry about backing up those comments.
Not one single bit of scum hunting has been seen in any post except with RBT. Either lurking or making little to no. He continues this disturbing trend with none batting an eye.

FOS: Niknor

next up will be the monks but this will have to wait to possibly tomorrow.

[farside22]

fixed link in quote

Mod I'm voting Nik.

The Flavor Vote count II

Farside22 - ElectricBadger, Nikanor
ElectricBadger - Benmage

Not Voting: Hewitt, Farside22, SaintKerrigan

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Lots of love
Haylxxx

By the way since you want to miss the point completely. You made this comment first:

viewtopic.php?p=2016896#2016896
Then you made the comment I quoted about policy lynching. I was tackling the second comment as that was your last thought before I brought into play the need to vote for wolf or mafia at that point and you changing your mind based on my say so. So no that is not a lie as you just tried to say it was.

I know, I copy and pasted without changing the vote count. In fact, I put it in completely the wrong place... ~ Hayl

[farside22]

Wtf farside that link, links to what I just said! Quote instead of linking. You chronology is throwing me off.

Shy am I doing all this work. Your quote came from you and where you said the term worthwhile. I'm saying I saw you talk about policy lynches and then changing your mind on my say so which I proved.

[farside22]

This was your intial read thru

Still trudging:

@ EB, eeeh, pretty much wants to lynch the lurkers and no one else. Follows the town, and it seems like he's more likely to vote for a town-lurker than a scum-active poster. That bugs me.

^ Done from memory. Most likely not accurate. And I'm trying to understand the arguments. No luck yet.

Well, if you agree that farside/Scien arguing is useless...then why are you paying so much mind to it? It's mostly arguing about something that's very small, and

If you say that I've been posting more on my other games, it's because they don't have walls of text that confuse me. Just before you point that out.

This whole post read as a big inner sigh. Cant get a read on bad players. Shes a policy lynch... the earlier the better. Although i think i'm seeing some real evident scum here that should probably be dealt with first.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 85#1989285

This was later in the game

Nice job scien. A little ironic you left out my lingering question on Oddin in both of our summaries, but i did ask for them to be brief.

As far as my interactions with Mae...there hasnt been any, i just joined the game and she is V/LA...from her play my only read is that shes bad, and could warrant a policy lynch if others are for this so am i. Her badness makes her impossible to read, thus quite the liability.

The YJ/Mae/Wulfy exchange..i'd have to go back and read, as well as Nik's statement.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 03#1993903

So yes you changed your mind come later in the game about that and asked others about it.

[farside22]

This is the quote I'm referring to with my comment.
Right right right...today would be a bad position with 0 mafia dead to call for one...She still shouldnt be overlooked..that said. Vote EB !??!

I'm sure most everyone here is pretty sure you're wolf. All your plan is about the wolf and not about what is in the best interest of the town.

[farside22]

@Farside

who do you think is the last 2 mafia scum?

pretty much 99% nik and 70%EB
There is that 30% on SK just because i have no read on him.

[farside22]

@Farside

who do you think is the last 2 mafia scum?

pretty much 99% nik and 70%EB
There is that 30% on SK just because i have no read on him.

Seeing as I also want to vote EB, but dont want to vote Nik (yet)...isn't it best to yield to your worse read(still good) but likelier lynch target?

That said

unvote vote EB

.

Yeah SK..with the whole never caught up in the thread, and only negative pointless comments towards me could be scum coasting to the end game...its an eerie feeling to cope with it....but i just can't get my mind off EB (**hopes this isn't my downfall**).

I'm not helping the wolf. I'm here to help the town. I like my 99% for now.

[farside22]

I'm not helping the wolf. I'm here to help the town. I like my 99% for now.

You're absurd and you dont make sense.
A. not wolf.
B. the wolf, wants to hunt mafia....so has the same motive as town.
C. You and EB are partners is the real answer.

Please this makes no sense.
If you are town you know for fact that the 2 people unclaim one is scum.
Instead all you talk about is the wolf and what the wolf wants not what is in the interest of the town at all.
So again I know between you and Nik 50/50 mafia or 100% and you are both mafia.

[farside22]

Simulpost...but a little shocked it took you this long to figure out that we want to identify all of our scum. The willingness to let a townie die - in theory including yourself - rather than the wolf is telling: obviously you don't fear being

accidentally

mistaken for scum.

Is this directed to me because I don't understand what your saying here at all.

[farside22]

EB: I did my review of Nik's play. I would like now a post by post comment on why you think I'm mafia scum in comparision to Nik's play.

I've stated my reasons for thinking you're mafia. Add to that your play today, which met my expectations for mafia: even when asked directly you didn't comment on my tactic to pursue mafia (I get the feeling you agree with me but don't want to say so); you attempted to portray Ben as potential mafia without any real proof and pushed heavily in that direction (again, you seem to agreehe's likely a wolf, and at this point lynching the wolf is an instant win for mafia).

If you have specific questions about Nik I'll answer; but I'm not going to analyze every one of his posts. He could be scum - at this point I think the case on him is decent and that it's likely - but as two of you, nikanor or SK are mafia that doesn't really change things. I think you're the better lynch not because Nik seems town but because you seem like a pretty sure thing.

What tactic was this you speak of? Umm no I didn't I wrote an analysis and I said it had potentional of 2 mafia scum which is could. Are you saying you can't see mafia trying to to mislynch claiming one of the 2 monks are mafia while knowing this to be false?
Lazy, lazy person. You want to ignore Nik and I'm starting to think the 2 of you as buddies together.
Also your analysis is just a bunch of talk with no proof. Saying I was not involved in lynches is false as I was part of the RBT and ODDin lych. Where was Nik in all this?
The rest is just WIFOM.

Still waiting for an answer from EB here

[farside22]

Where was Nik in all this?

You know...this is actually a pretty good point. And he's the one lurker atm I can do something about, so:

Unvote Farside, Vote Nikanor

If nothing else, I'd at least rather lose to scum who worked for it.

Ben is implying you and me scum based on my analysis but refuses to acknowledge that as a townie he should know he has a 50/50 shot at scum between me and Nik or a 100% chance. Do you find that he continues to think about the wolf and what the wolf wants not at all more then likely he is the wolf.
Now I get to the really tough question: Who looks to be scum buddies with who on each person with the idea that there is 2 mafia (just thinking there could be 1 but the with what haylen said I think 2)
Orginally my thought is Ben is scum trying to create a mislynch with the monks knowing that Nik is his scum buddy while directing the wolf to kill the other Monk giving the mafia a perfect win.
Second thought he is wolf and wants to chose the town to lynch one of the 2 monks leaving the town with just VT claims and Hewitt as a patsy (again this is all hypo-theory)

[farside22]

Sorry for the bad grammar and all. I'm terrible with spelling as well.

Anyways there is a near certainity if we don't get mafia today that the mafia will win, however mafia also needs to trick the wolf. That's why a part of me can see this as a ploy by mafia to not only create a mislynch, but to get the wolf to target a non mafia member.
Now for the big question to you EB: If you believe Ben to be the wolf then:
Do you think between me and Nik that we are both mafia or do you think only 1 of us to be mafia?

[farside22]

Do you think between me and Nik that we are both mafia or do you think only 1 of us to be mafia?

I'm inclined to say you both are, but there's a large degree of uncertainty as I have nearly nothing to go on with SK. I want to say what I've seen of him so far is townish, but honestly I think that honestly has more to do with his agreeing with me and more to do with the quality of attacks by ben than his defense against them.

But at present there's a lack of evidence against him and decent, though not perfect, cases against you and Nik.

Well I have my case on Nik which is basically him saying a whole lot of nothing all game.
I would like to see more from SK in regards to post and comments.
I'm going to assume you 2 didn't talk during the night to each other?

[farside22]

@SK: What has Nik done that you would call scum hunting?
Do you think trying to also find the wolf in the game should also be a priority of the town
Which person if mafia has more then one scum buddy would you consider to be my scum buddy and why?
Now that SK completely missed the point about 50/50 shot in which ben is trying to do with the monks I'm going to assum SK mafia with Nik at this point with that read alone.

[farside22]

@SK: What has Nik done that you would call scum hunting?

He did actually have some points against ODDin on Day 2.

Oddin was town his analysis was nothing on anyone else

Do you think trying to also find the wolf in the game should also be a priority of the town

I'm not denying the importance of finding the wolf. My point was, you already considered the wolf found and you

still

pressed onto Benmage. I hardly consider that productive.

Ben's attacking my point on him. My feel was to see if he was scum with Nik or if he is wolf. All I get from Ben with his point on the Monk's is scum motivation

Which person if mafia has more then one scum buddy would you consider to be my scum buddy and why?

Well, first the mafia obviously has only one scum buddy. As for who your scum buddy would be...actually, I would guess Benmage because of your rather useless (no offense meant) attack on him and your assertion that he's a werewolf. Could be a mafia ploy to clear one of their own from a lynch today.

So you see no point that he is looking at this from a wolf point instead of scum?

[farside22]

piggy back:

Quote:
3) Quote yourself. Show us the context that you think ODDin is taking your material out of, and I will believe you. Simply saying, 'You're twisting my words,' is not an adequate defense.
In order to catch a good scum player, one must search for ulterior motive in posts. In that way, I think it's a good thing that ODDin said what he had about that quote, but I also see how you can take that as a twisting of your words.

I will have to look for others later it's still early

What's your point? Hunting for town is just as important as hunting for scum, especially when the scum (you and Benmage, for example) is better at avoiding being scumhunted than I am at scumhunting.

To find town you need to figure out scum. What in that post shows anything remotely showing why (except me or scien) you thought a person was scum or town? Didn't you have Ben as town in that post (looks,,,yup)

Not true. You even say later in your post that I scumhunted on RBT, and earlier in your post that I called both you and Scien town early on in the game. This quote smells heavily of bullshit.

saving this to answer later

I'm not the only one who refused to accept Benmage's calls for SK to be lynched. I gave my own reason for why I thought Ben was wrong about SK's supposed scumtell, just as you and others did. How is my defense of SK different from the defense you and others gave?

Because I'm looking for scum partners and I don't see anyone else that is doing that.

When he voted hewitt, he tried to get masons lynched. When he called SK probscum without actually voting him, he was avoiding lynching monks.

No Oddin found it a cheap shot. What's your second point there? Can you show where Oddin was trying to vote out the mason. As far as I found in a brief moment was he voted for RBT in the end.

Did you ever ask for any proof? No, you didn't. So don't try to play the 'you didn't give any proof!' card, as I would have gladly provided had you asked for it.

No one should have to ask for proof? And EB and myself both said something about your poor attempt at your scum list.

[farside22]

Because I'm looking for scum partners and I don't see anyone else that is doing that.

uhh i already pointed em out.

Lets see it's me and EB or me and SK and only because I think your idea for going for the monks is anti-town.
Is that you're reasoning in a nutshell?

[farside22]

@SK
first - ben is talking about the wolf and what he wants and needs to find scum. This in my mind is scum directing or a wolf hoping to get rid of the monks
second: Please quote where nik did something of use more then once.
third: you're read and reason of why a person is scum is neutral at best. You have one scum suspect (IE: me) with neutral read on everyone else and showing no person so far that looks to be by scum buddy.
Finally I think your his scum buddy based on your perceptions and how you are defending him right now.

[farside22]

@ Farside:

1. And you think it's wolf trying to get rid of the monks, right?
2. He was in on the lynches of RBT and ODDin. He did make a stance, even if it was an incorrect one.
3. Benmage looks scummy to me, but his early ISO gave me a town vibe. He confuses me, so I put him as a neutral,

leaning scum

.
4. Well, I can't help my perceptions. I'm countering what I believe are false statements made by you. If I'm defending him in the process...well, again, I guess I can't help it.

1>I'm leaning him wolf at this point
2. Wow a whole one paragraph and adding nothing else to the game and you call it scum hunting.
3. You know there is about 2 or 3 scum players left in the game right?
4. You are defending a person based on your read when he has a scum list that is the equivlant of saying nothing as yours is.

Finally I will say this. When I'm lynched and you see I'm town I hope the 2 (at least 2) town people see this interaction between SK and Nik.
Wolf (aka Ben) you will have to kill an unclaimed person that means a garenteed mafia member.
As for tomorrow if the wolf (again most likely ben from his action today) isn't dead tomorrow and a mafia is dear lord vote no lynch to give the town a shot.

I'm out of advice. Hewitt needs to weigh in at this point.

[farside22]

We've already explained to you that going after monks is anti-town because it makes targetting harder for scum NKs - specifically, it makes it harder for the mafia to kill the werewolf. It may also make it harder for lynching tomorrow; if we lynch a town-monk today it's unlikely we'll have any monks tomorrow, while if the wolf to kills a mafia-monk we'll have a proven townie, a huge advantage in lylo. But I'm guessing you already knew that, and are just pretending to be obtuse.

If we lynch a mafia monk we'll have a guaranteed townie entering tomorrow.

We have no clue who is killing who here. We lynch an unclaimed. The wolf knows that Nik (unless Ben is completely faking this wolf thing) is the corse to take. Then it's either Ben (unless he is killed during the night) and the 2 monks and Hewitt. So really this is on the wolf and the mafia and how they want to kill tonight as well.
All Ben's talk is about the wolf and lynching an unclaimed is a better odd then lynching a Monk. As the monks are either 50/50 town or they are both town. (I'm doubting the later)

I really want to hear from Hewitt as he is the only person I can imagine being a wolf if it's not Ben at this point.
I'm that certain about Nik scum with Ben as the wolf being I'm just a VT.
And SK as Nik's scum partner.
*writes this down as an almost certain issue*

[farside22]

So why aren't you trying to get SK lynched to have a confirmed townie.

And have the wolf kill the confirmed townie!
I'm so glad you think I'm really that gullible.

[farside22]

So why aren't you trying to get SK lynched to have a confirmed townie.

And have the wolf kill the confirmed townie!
I'm so glad you think I'm really that gullible.

No, but your realllllly realllly bad. I'm reading this as you admitting your mafiascum....Whys the wolf killing the confirmed townie, but not the mafia??

Oh and the wolf would be trying to hit the final mafia guy... not the townie...gg logic.

Okay lets say we get mafia today. Why the hell would the wolf not get rid of a confirm town player at that point?
Having a town person that is unconfirmed helps the scum. If you don't know that then you're not thinking clearly or your just scum faking not thinking clearly.
There is either 2 scum with the unclaimed or 1 scum in the unclaimed.
I know myself to be town so I know I have a 50/50 shot of mafia right between you and Nik.
As I said either you are mafia trying to misdirect the wolf to garentee a win or your the wolf hoping to take out any garenteed town player to make things confusing for the town tomorrow.
Either way you are scum.

[farside22]

So why aren't you trying to get SK lynched to have a confirmed townie.

And have the wolf kill the confirmed townie!
I'm so glad you think I'm really that gullible.

No, but your realllllly realllly bad. I'm reading this as you admitting your mafiascum....Whys the wolf killing the confirmed townie, but not the mafia??

Oh and the wolf would be trying to hit the final mafia guy... not the townie...gg logic.

Okay lets say we get mafia today. Why the hell would the wolf not get rid of a confirm town player at that point?

Again, why is the wolf the one wanting to kill the confirmed townie, but the mafia aren't?

That is only if we get mafia tonight and only if we get rid of the right monk if one is scum.
However if mafia is neither monk that this is just a mafia's way of making sure to win with no casualty and misleading the wolf.
So which is this Ben? Are you the wolf trying to take out a confirmed or are you mafia with Nik trying to mislead the wolf?

[farside22]

I'm town trying to win the game.

Right that is why you keep trying to lynch a Monk saying it's 50/50 when you know reading the role set up there is either 0-1 town monks or both are town.
Unless you know for fact one of the monks is scum. I would love to hear how you know this for fact then.

[farside22]

And have the wolf kill the confirmed townie!
I'm so glad you think I'm really that gullible.

You're bullshitting here. Why would any scum kill a confirmed townie? You know that the scum will be best off aiming for the opposing team.

if the town lynches a mafia today why on earth would they try to kill the opposite alignment?

[farside22]

And have the wolf kill the confirmed townie!
I'm so glad you think I'm really that gullible.

You're bullshitting here. Why would any scum kill a confirmed townie? You know that the scum will be best off aiming for the opposing team.

Far squirming is comical.

@MOD

Whats the story on Hew, Hayl...games at a standpoint without him. I tried convincing the mafiascum to bus, but they won't budge.

I'm not mafia. They (sk/nik) are already on my wagon along with the wolf (ben)

[farside22]

And have the wolf kill the confirmed townie!
I'm so glad you think I'm really that gullible.

You're bullshitting here. Why would any scum kill a confirmed townie? You know that the scum will be best off aiming for the opposing team.

if the town lynches a mafia today why on earth would they try to kill the opposite alignment?

Because if they don't, they can't win! But of course you know that.

All the scenario's and possible outcomes:

This is all based on my lynch.

I'm town that leaves a possible 2 mafia (I'm sticking with this being 2 mafia)

The wolf needs to kill mafia to have a shot tonight or he loses.

the mafia on the other hand all they need is to avoid being killed tonight and they win.

Questions?

[farside22]

Actually, in a 1-1-1 I think town would be better off voting No Lynch and forcing the scum to kill each other off while hoping their opposites mis-target.

Farside, that didn't answer your scenario...definitely seeing some logical fallacies in there.

How did it not? You just pointed out the one point in which the town can win.

All the mafia need to do is avoid a lynch today. (aka lynch me) and avoid being killed and they win.
How does that not work?