Haven't played mafia for a few months now so I feel like a newb trying to remember all the rules for each game.
Open 177 (Monks and Masons) - Game Over.
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farside22 Mafia Mum
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farside22 Mafia Mum
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I almost felt like smacking my head on my desk reading the exchange between YJ and Maemuki. Anyone care to explain if there is a past relationship between these two because frankly goofiness likes this just gives me a bad taste.
Next:
Wow this is so weak. I mean really? Seriously you have a good thought and you feel like random voting?!!!Scien wrote:Vote: Hewitt
Why hello there.
Although I don't know what to think about the Wulfy not confirming thing, or the person going after him without mentioning this. No really, its a curiosity, and I haven't made up my mind if it actually means anything >.<
*smacks head on desk*
I feel better. Scien I don't get it. Your not being aggressive on this, your sitting back and just bringing it up but you don't want to press on it.
*alert*
*alert*
*alert*
unvote:
Vote: Scien
The only time I see people touch on a possible scummy thing and back off our typically scum. Your non aggression seems like something I see when people (scum) want to make a weak case but don't want to be agressive in it as it might look weak when it is.Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.-
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farside22 Mafia Mum
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A late confirmation is null tell. I know people have lives outside in the RL. If someone confirmed late it's for any reason and all reasons.Scien wrote:Good legitimate conversation already.
I don't see how it is possibly scummy. I think it is odd that he hasn't confirmed yet and no one mentioned it, especially for people random voting, but its just a poof of WIFOM really, and there is no real reason to try and push it as a real case.Farside wrote:The only time I see people touch on a possible scummy thing and back off our typically scum.
That's why I chose the word 'odd' and not scummy. There is no way to derive meaning from this... so I can't attribute scum points for it.
For you to be legitimately concerned about my play, you must think something about the late confirm or random vote was acutally scummy and not just a curiosity, and are wondering why I didn't think so as well.
Just for record are you claiming that the late confirm is scummy? Or the fact that the random voter didn't mention the late confirm? (Yes, this is in addition to you claiming that me not pushing it is scummy too, I understand that.)
I'm wondering why you would point something out. Flirt around the idea of it but not push the issue at all.
Like hey I noticed this but don't feel like persuing it so don't mind me as I now vote for someone else completely.
It's very irksome and is a sign I see that scums do in many a game.
There's other tells I look for but I'm not discussing as I like to see people slip up and catch scum on those slip ups.Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.-
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farside22 Mafia Mum
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Don't play mind games or twist my words sir. I don't not appriecate it.Scien wrote:
I have a good thought? One that you simultaneously say is also a null tell? But you are criticizing me for not being aggressive over it?Farside wrote:Seriously you have agood thoughtand you feel like random voting?!!! [...] Your not being aggressive on this, your sitting back and just bringing it up but you don't want to press on it. [...] A late confirmation is null tell. [...] If someone confirmed late it's for any reason and all reasons.
Your views are all over the place if I am reading this right. What was a good thought? How was it a good thought? If its a null tell, why do you want me to aggressively pursue it?
You are not making sense lady.
Here let me try and ask this question again since you missed it the first time:
Your previous posts made it sound like me mentioning it was a good thought that I should have pursued. Which thought? The thought about the late confirm? Or the thought about the random vote on a non-confirmed and not mentioning it? Please clarify what you are talking about so we know what to talk about.
Your the one who brought up the fact wolfy had not confirmed. You found it yourself to be odd but did not pounce on it as anything more then a eh comment with a random vote.
If you did not find it so worthwhile then why mention it in the first place?
It was the whole comment I found very peculiar. Why waste a random vote on something you found whether small or not on a vote? Why random vote at that point if you found it odd and not persue it further?Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.-
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farside22 Mafia Mum
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I should have known better but it feels weird going back into mafia after being gone so long I feel green behind the ears and giggly like a school kid with my first kiss.Nikanor wrote: @farside: I'm glad to see you didn't play that newbcard you decided to give yourself. You would be my vote right now were it not for your attacks on Scien.
I know bad metaphor but it's more like a long forgetton friend that you try to feel out everything you had before.Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.-
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farside22 Mafia Mum
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Where do you see the word weak here?
Now your saying it's weak after I said it was a null tell but seeing the first post it looks frankly like your trying to bring something to a random vote but flutter off into nothing for no reason. No where do you say it's weak.Scien wrote:Vote: Hewitt
Why hello there.
Although I don't know what to think about the Wulfy not confirming thing, or the person going after him without mentioning this. No really, its a curiosity, and I haven't made up my mind if it actually means anything >.<
Is this a note for yourself? Is this a weak attempt at finding something? Was this attempt at anything and why did you wait till I said it was a null tell and weak to say it was weak yourself?Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.-
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farside22 Mafia Mum
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I see weak case and I'm going to question your motive. I see an attempt at a weak comment with a random vote and pounce on it wondering if your vagueness is a slight buss, or if it means more.If my two phrases were weak, why do you suggest an aggressive case? What is the townie benefit of aggressively pushing a weak case?Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.-
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farside22 Mafia Mum
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Please don't condescend me. I can do it too but I"m much more mean about it.Scien wrote: You didn't answer my questions... again. I know you are trying to keep the pressure up on me, but please do try and address my counter concerns if you truly are pro-town:
If my two phrases were weak, why do you suggest an aggressive case? What is the townie benefit of aggressively pushing a weak case?
I have repeated why it bothers me.
1) you didn't see it as a weak case first post. Looking just at the first post.
2) you seemed to meantion in a second time as a muse then blow if off as nothing. I sense you trying to see if you were going to get a bite off of such a comment which it didn't then tried to fish some more to see if anyone else would bite.
Either (a) this is a trap or (b) a scum trying to build a weak case off crap and hoping others will fallow and screw up.
I'm trying to see which category you are in. Since you seem to be aggrevisely harping on me for finding your analysis irksome and weak I go with (b) as a townie looking to trap someone would have not backtracked and found my inquiry on your weak comment something to make catty comments about or twist into something not there.
Since you want to look at comments and can't seem to really put together everything I said without spinning it I like my vote where it stand.Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.-
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farside22 Mafia Mum
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Since I"m royally pissed off at this back and forth lets start from the beginning.
This was said after your first comments.The only time I see people touch on a possible scummy thing and back off our typically scum. Your non aggression seems like something I see when people (scum) want to make a weak case but don't want to be agressive in it as it might look weak when it is.
You didn't say anything about it as weak till I did here:
Then you try the old Lets put words in someone's mouth trick:I don't see how it is possibly scummy. I think it is odd that he hasn't confirmed yet and no one mentioned it, especially for people random voting, but its just a poof of WIFOM really, and there is no real reason to try and push it as a real case.
Then you avoid comments I noticed. This all in the first 2 pages folks. Just in case you thought you had a lot to read.Just for record are you claiming that the late confirm is scummy? Or the fact that the random voter didn't mention the late confirm? (Yes, this is in addition to you claiming that me not pushing it is scummy too, I understand that.)Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.-
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farside22 Mafia Mum
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Starting from the beginning again.
This sounded to me like hmmm why would someone vote random for someone who is not confirmed.Scien wrote:Vote: Hewitt
Why hello there.
Although I don't know what to think about the Wulfy not confirming thing, or the person going after him without mentioning this. No really, its a curiosity, and I haven't made up my mind if it actually means anything >.<
I did say it was a good idea and that was a poor choice of words but it seemed like to me you had a thought and decided to toss it away and random vote instead which is odd.
Again you don't call it weak here. You call it WIFOM but you go and say that it's really WIFOM. Why would you bring up something you felt was WIFOM in the first place? Why would you casually throw it out their but then just again back off on it like it was nothing?I don't see how it is possibly scummy. I think it is odd that he hasn't confirmed yet and no one mentioned it, especially for people random voting, but its just a poof of WIFOM really, and there is no real reason to try and push it as a real case.
This made me LOL. If I have been condescending I appologize. I'm just finding things you say a bit flippant. As well as the fact you focas on one comment but you note I keep saying weak. You want to twist this like I was the one capatizling on a weak statement, which I did not. I asked why you were not aggressive on it.Scien wrote:
You aren't doing it? I've definitely been getting that vibe. I can assure you on my end, that it is unintentional. I just want my questions answered as well. You can beat up on me all you want, but I'm not going to stop looking around because of it.Farside wrote:Please don't condescend me. I can do it too but I"m much more mean about it.
I find instead of wanting to answer some of my questions you flipped this around on me for question you on it.
Why is it anti-town in my eyes for someone not to be agressive:
See what I see is that people don't hesitate on something they find whether odd or WIFOM in random stage. Some people use it for traps. Some use it for talk.
But to see someone hesitate as you did in the beggining dancing around the subject felt like someone trying to come up with fluff and see who agrees with it.
You have been around long enough I see to know that someone who doesn't confirm right away is a null tell.
Your first too comments then your questioning of me with your I don't know how I should react and why is this scummy really just ring insincere in my ear.Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.-
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farside22 Mafia Mum
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Scien: you seem to misunderstand me. I notice that very few scum now how to be aggressive in the beginning of the game. They either followers, or they hem and haw or backtrack or make wishy washy comments. I don't go after the agressive person. typically scum watches, waits and doesn't do much else.
I don't like to see a observation then just backing out on it.
Plus I did ask as a player who's been around for awhile why would you bring up something you know to be a null tell?Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.-
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farside22 Mafia Mum
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I saw this too but not that I know Maemuki's play style but so far it has given me nothing warm, fuzzy or substantial. She's somebody I feel is either anti-town or scum. I'm not voting on her as anti-town is dangerous however one thing I learned with this set up. Mafia and wolf both want to win and will eventually look at the anti-town and attack them. Plus I feel like scien is backing off a bit too much and his attacks are more troubling to me.Wulfy wrote:
Asking stupid, easily deflected questions is scummy. It appears to be participating, but instead of actually adding content that you make, you are having others add content. Also, are you not self voting at this point? Why maintain it?Maemuki wrote:
Explain, please. It makes me think that you suspect Scien now, yet you're voting YJ. Which one is scummier? Why?Nikanor wrote:You would be my vote right now were it not for your attacks on Scien.
Not really it's been almost 3 moths or longer (I lost track) since I played mafia. My last few months before giving it up I lost a lot of interest in the game it's self. I don't feel like a great record after being gone and running into players I never heard of. It's like starting a new.[/quote]Bullshit. Look at the track record and her standing. Clearly that was to force players off their guard by luring them into attacking her because she could easily defeat them in arguments, I'm sure. This would be an interesting move as either side which means it tells nothing of alignment but of her clever play style. And yes, you will read walls and analyze and play hardcore or you will get lost, lose interest, and replace out. Or be zwetschenwasser. Either way, you better be the first or this will be a long, tedious, and boring game.
Back to the person I'm voting:
What do you think of the scien/farside discussion.Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.-
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farside22 Mafia Mum
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Honestly I haven't played as I said in a few months and the last time I played only a rare few could pull of being aggressive scum.MAEMUKI"
Not really. There are many people on the site, some play aggresively, others don't, right? It depends, so aggresiveness is a null-tell on my eyes. Why do you think that scum wouldn't be as aggresive as any other townie?
Being aggressive means attention and you have to have a point that is not wishy washy or meaningless or you back off then look scummy for backing off. It never works well for many I see who are scum.
I wasn't talking about his first post Zazie. He didnt' bring up weak till after I did was what I was trying to say there. His first statement was why this.zazie:
Farside, what does the bolded in the quote from Scien say to you?
I call it a null tell. He says later if it's a null tell why be aggressive.
Basically everything I said he says he meant later.
I was asked from scien why I felt him not being aggressive was bad and I was answering the question. I get the impression reading your comments that you didn't read the exchange between us at all.Oddin
Could well be read as: look how extremely and terribly aggressive I'm being right now. Ergo: I'm not scum.
All in all. Call it tunnel vision but everything I said Scien said after the fact.
I called it a null tell that wulfy had not confirmed but Scien was the one to bring it up as a musing. Then backs off when questioned further on it. Then attacks me for questioning his lack of aggression.
Whether his point had merit or not I don't like people musing about something then RVS for no reason. He backtracked, attacked, then conceded and cowered. None of this rings for me any town readings.Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.-
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farside22 Mafia Mum
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My problem with self votes is in large part do to Nat. He always self voted to prove it was a null tell and others started fallowing the trend to the point it wasn't a discussion starter any more just as zazie said a distraction.ZazieR wrote:
Well, we have discussion now. But most of it isn't caused by your selfvote or wagon. It barely brings any discussion and a selfvote is most of the time a distraction.Maemuki wrote:No, I never self-voted period before. I randomly felt like it. As for the reason, I wanted to make discussion. It worked, didn't it?Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.-
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farside22 Mafia Mum
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The head desk was actually because of YJ and Maemuki exchange. It made me want to cry. Also note I'm very sarcastic person and it's just my nature to be sarcastic.
@zazie: I may be tunnel visioned. I always feel I could be but most of the talk was just me and scien going back and forth anyways with little said from anyone else on the matter.Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.-
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farside22 Mafia Mum
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I really think talking about those who haven't posted on day 1 is a bit much but that was not the case here. Nik had posted and recently.ElectricBadger wrote: Well, your assurance is good enough for me.
Unvote Maemuki, Vote Nikanorfor not posting yet.
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I'm not sure if you were giving less pressure off Maemuki or why. This vote at this time makes no sense.
Did nik talk before or after this vote?
I have to recheck who said what at what time I'm a bit busy to get to it right now.
This is understandable especially as I can point to numerous games were scum lurked FTW but this early once again and voting on someone who did post that day again it makes no sense.In my last game town lost to a trio of lurker-scum. Another game we were both involved in is now over 5 months long because of lurkers and inactives. So I'm getting kind of touchy about the subject and starting to lean towards the Lynch All Lurkers mentality.
Why push for a lurkers right now out of curiousity? Do you not have a say about others in the game and comments made so far? Is so what are they?Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.-
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farside22 Mafia Mum
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first comment: Basically it's day 1. Not many talked so far. You had a RVS vote but change to a vote on someone who had not said a word that day.ElectricBadger wrote:
Not sure what you're saying here. Could you rephrase?farside22 wrote:I really think talking about those who haven't posted on day 1 is a bit much but that was not the case here. Nik had posted and recently.
I'm not sure if you were giving less pressure off Maemuki or why. This vote at this time makes no sense.
I have had things to say - Iso me? And my vote now has nothing to do with not posting - it's due to Nik's first post, as I mentioned in response.farside22 wrote:Why push for a lurkers right now out of curiousity? Do you not have a say about others in the game and comments made so far? Is so what are they?
I do not understand why you would change from a RVS to a non talker so early in the game.
Second: I can see why nik's comments bother you now.Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.-
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farside22 Mafia Mum
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Is this really all you have to add so far?Fuzzyman wrote:Why does it seem that everybody is justifying everything with, "It doesn't matter since you were nowhere close to lynch"? A vote is a signifier of intent to lynch.Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.-
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farside22 Mafia Mum
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I hate people that avoid questions like this.ElectricBadger wrote:
Isn't this - voting for a weak reason rather than a random one - exactly what you've been attacking Scien for NOT doing?farside22 wrote:first comment: Basically it's day 1. Not many talked so far. You had a RVS vote but change to a vote on someone who had not said a word that day.
I do not understand why you would change from a RVS to a non talker so early in the game.
First my question is valid. As you explained to zazie you went down the list and nik was the first person not to say a word but again it's day 1 we just started and you switched from RVS to sort of random with a reason. Now you have a reason but I want to know why not wait to vote if your intent is more to focus on the quiet at first then do a RVS to a semi random vote in one day.Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.-
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farside22 Mafia Mum
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Yet the only reason for you vote is because I was explaining why I don't like scein's lack of agression and I'm defending my statement that you pointed out because you seemed focas on something that was an explaination to another player and not a hey look I'm agressive so I must not be scum as you so put it and yes that is twisting someone's words.ODDin wrote:
I have read the exchange well enough, thank you, and yes, I know this comment was triggered by you answering a question. However, it feels to me you used it to say "look here, look here, I'm not scum." It's a gut feeling, I feel like you, umm, "overexplained" with this post.farside wrote:I was asked from scien why I felt him not being aggressive was bad and I was answering the question. I get the impression reading your comments that you didn't read the exchange between us at all.
[/quote]Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.-
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farside22 Mafia Mum
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First of all I hate rehashing the same thing over and over again. I don't like repeating myself. It's a personal annoyance. Second if anyone reads my past games I'm emotional. It's a null tell but it's a fact.ElectricBadger wrote:ODDin wrote:It's not something to be annoyed over so much. farside seems overly emotional over this. Reading over the whole exchange makes me wanna go "jeez, come down..."
Am I the only one noticing Oddin pointing out my flaws and reaction but neglecting to mention scien at all and his reactions to being called out?
Or the fact that Oddi pointed to an explaination and seems to twist it into something insubstantial that is pure conjection and not fact based?
Zazie so far is the only one to point out that his statement about my comment, although not something I said, can be looked at either way.Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.-
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farside22 Mafia Mum
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I don't understand what your asking here. What does scien have to do with what you did?ElectricBadger wrote:Not avoiding your question. My answer included my reasoning - that a very weak reason for a vote was better than a completely random vote. My question to you was also valid: what makes my vote different than what you attacked Scien for not doing?
Quote tag fixed ~ HaylSarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.-
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farside22 Mafia Mum
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What is a vote to you except an expression of someone you find scummy if it's not someone you think should be lynched? Should I not defend my actions to your comment and let it slide is that not scummy as well?ODDin wrote:farside: I voted for you on the 3rd page of the first day of the game, with no other votes against you. At this stage, I don't see my vote as expressing "I want you lynched at the end of this day". It's meant to pressure you. It's there so I can analyse the way you and others react to it. At the moment, I don't see anyone at all I want to actually lynch - all current arguments are pretty weak, mine included.
Meta on you being emotional and aggressive as town will certainly help. If this is indeed a matter of playstyle , my suspicion of you will drop. As I've said, my perception is somewhat coloured by a recent game where scum acted in a way quite similar to yours here (bussing their scumpartner, actually, but considering that right now is too big a logical leap).
I really wish I was a multi voter right about now. You would be my second suspect at this point.Well yes, but the argument started in the RVS. I just didn't like farside gunning for Scien right away.
On a serious note is there something wrong with getting out of the RVS stage?Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.-
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farside22 Mafia Mum
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attack is a strong word. I questioned your vote and reasoning for you vote. Nothing more and nothing less.ElectricBadger wrote:
You attacked Scien because he cast a random vote rather than pursue a weak lead (wulfy not having confirmed).farside22 wrote:
I don't understand what your asking here. What does scien have to do with what you did?ElectricBadger wrote:Not avoiding your question. My answer included my reasoning - that a very weak reason for a vote was better than a completely random vote. My question to you was also valid: what makes my vote different than what you attacked Scien for not doing?
You attacked me because I cast a vote for a weak reason (Nik not posting) rather than a random one.
Is there something I'm missing, or a way to reconcile these actions? Right now I can only read your actions as hypocrisy; casting accusations without any real basis in an attempt to lynch innocents.
Do you find it wrong for people to question a vote? If so why?
Should it really matter when the vote was cast whether the start or the middle if the vote is somthing other then random would you not question it yourself and find a reason to see if it's just fluff?Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.-
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farside22 Mafia Mum
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Lurker lynching is typically scum driven hence my questioning of your vote. Although after you had a point you made on Nikor. I still want to ask why the change of heart from RVS to lurker voting.ElectricBadger wrote:Perhaps a strong word, but I think suitable. I've given plenty of reasoning for my vote, and repeatedly stated that the alternative was a random vote.
I don't believe you, not after all your interrogations when Scien voted randomly.farside22 wrote:I do not understand why you would change from a RVS to a non talker so early in the game.
Now that is more clear as to a deffinate is more of a what changed your mind but looking in whole at your reasoning is not my questioning.Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.-
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farside22 Mafia Mum
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Do you know scien to be innocent? Are you saying that my reasons forl attacking scien lacked merit?ElectricBadger wrote:
You attacked Scien because he cast a random vote rather than pursue a weak lead (wulfy not having confirmed).farside22 wrote:
I don't understand what your asking here. What does scien have to do with what you did?ElectricBadger wrote:Not avoiding your question. My answer included my reasoning - that a very weak reason for a vote was better than a completely random vote. My question to you was also valid: what makes my vote different than what you attacked Scien for not doing?
You attacked me because I cast a vote for a weak reason (Nik not posting) rather than a random one.
Is there something I'm missing, or a way to reconcile these actions? Right now I can only read your actions as hypocrisy; casting accusations without any real basis in an attempt to lynch innocents.Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.-
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farside22 Mafia Mum
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RVS stage can be used or not used by people. Making a point about something odd or weak but still placing a RVS is just out of sorts for me. I'm more concerned not that you point out wulfy's nonconfirm but the second thing that seemed off to me.I know this wasn't addressed to me, but I would like to point out, I understand what you guys are saying about aggression and that's not what I asked you. I asked you why you think I should have aggressively pushed an extremely weak case. I would like to point out the difference since it is still something I don't understand.
Although I don't know what to think about the Wulfy not confirming thing,or the person going after him without mentioning this
1] part of it felt like more then musing the first 2 lines is more of quetioning with a thought if there was anything. In fact you state yourself it was an observation[1] Did I ever treat it as more than a musing?
[2] How do you back off from a musing?
[3] No, I attack you for wanting me to be more aggressive with no backing. You can attack me for being non-aggressive all you want, I am still confused about how you can fault me for bringing up weak points, then also fault me for not aggressively making a case from them.
#2][1] No. It was an observation.
[2] No, it wasn't an attempt of anything but an observation. Why did I wait? I didn't, I believe part of the post that you are complaining about said: "No really, its a curiosity, and I haven't made up my mind if it actually means anything." Did I say it was scummy? No I said it was a curiosity.
#3] See my comments in part 1.Scien wrote:
It has been suggested that I should have tried to push that observation as a case. Let's just take a second to see what would have happened.Badger wrote:I think it's obvious. So why did you choose as you did, Scien?
I post a comment about the situation, which utilizes WIFOM and is fairly weak without anything to support it. Since this is early game there is nothing to support it yet.
So in this "choose your own adventure", I immediately attack ODDin on the grounds that he is 'random' voting for an inactive, someone who wouldn't have defended themselves. (Or I guess Wulf on the grounds of the late confirm. Depending on which I wanted to pressure more). I would have to overextend a lot here, because it IS early game and there's nothing to back me up.
Town/scum catch this, and depending on their alignment will manipulate it, or be critical of it. I will get accused for pushing a weak case, and fabricating suspicion. Mainly pretty anti-town stuff. Pressure is immediately taken off ODDin in favor of me, and we are in the same mess as we are now for different reasons.
It doesn't matter what alignment I had at that time. It was a bad idea to use a weak observations in ANY case. I am now caught in a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.
"Why were you pushing a weak case on someone when you didn't have much to go on. You are manipulating the situation scum."
Or.
"Why did you not use your observation in an attack on ODDin or Wulf. You are manipulating the situation by pushing cases that you don't want to be involved in. Scum."
Of course I didn't foresee how much trouble I would get into for not pushing a weak case. Wow, that last sentence is not something I ever expected to have to say.
This seemed to me like backing down -How do you backtrack from a musing? How is attacking anti-town? I conceded, where?
Scien wrote:Nope I understand that perfectly. But arguing against it is going to be impossible, because just as the accusation is a bit of WIFOM, even if experience shows it holds, any defense is also going to be based in WIFOM.
I really haven't been aroundthatlong. This would be my eighth game, not counting other ongoings, but I am not hiding behind that. Eh? Just to see what kind of reactions I would get I suppose. I was definitely surprised to get a huge push back from you saying I should have used it in an attack. I just didn't think it was strong enough.
What I expected? Either people directly telling me to STFU because it was WIFOM, or maybe people lightly speculating. Both of which would give me views on them. I didn't expect it to be used in a case (that would have been very odd and I would have been highly critical of it).
I guess I kind of lost sight of that in the immediate defense I had to make due to your strong attack. That attack caught me off guard.Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.-
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farside22 Mafia Mum
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My meta.......well before I stopped playing I told people never to expect the same thing from me in a game. I can be aggressive, quiet, silly, weird, annoying, ect. I don't really stick to a certain method as it bores me and it makes me easy to read to people.I'm having a hard time with you. I have not checked meta, but you sound like you are very fond of aggression. That's cool and all, and would explain your hardcore pressure against me. But simultaneously I am having a hard time wondering how, every explanation I give is almost completely disregarded or spun in a negative light. I know that this is something that happens, but I am going to question why. Aggressive townie player? Or manipulative scum looking for an easy target?
As for disregarding your comment can you show where and please let not rehash the same question I feel I've answered but you don't see to like my answer for a reason I dont' understand. As for looking at it in a negative did you see the part I put in bold to you with your mussing about Oddin? It's what struck me as a good thought with a weak reason. Yes we can say it's not exciting but there was something I felt was almost a substance that you just withered into nothing. You questioned me aobut wolfy being nonconfirmed but you, yourself ever said in was a null tell.
I don't like when people say well I meant to say that after I said it. I find it exteremly scummy.
Agressive townie to me is someone who targets a player they felt made and error and relentless questions the motives and actions. If someone seems to backtrack and say I meant to say X and not Y it is scummy
manipulative scum - Well this is a bit more difficult but I would say someone who is manipulative scum is spinning something that is not there and making it a case. Or finding something small and twisting it into something worse.
I can see your wheels spinning already but I didn't not put words into your mouth Scien. You took the words and comments I made and said it was what you meant. How do I know what you meant? How do I not know you were trying to look productive and hoped to spin it into a conversation piece into just a muse for distraction?Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.-
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farside22 Mafia Mum
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scien I'm going down post subject at a time here
viewtopic.php?p=1933512#1933512
1] points to Oddin voting for wolfy but Oddin not commenting on. Lets it go to just mussing (I feel it as almost a slight scum bus or setting up oddin for later)
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2] This is where our and yes I say our miscommunication starts. The good idea was about oddin. The weak idea is wolfy. You talk about it being null (my words) in regards to wolfy but what you failed to realize or see I thought the musing on Oddin was valid
viewtopic.php?p=1933895#1933895
3]Again you this post bothers me the most because your using a second post but miss the fact that once again I was the first one to bring up you weak comment. You seem to suggest here that you brought it up before me which was not the case. Also now your saying observation but you don't feel like capitalizing on it just to get out of the RVS.
4] this is such a bad spin here. This was a lot of back and forth on this at this point. You turned this into a 180 basically playing the victum of the damned if I do, damned if I don't.Long story short there is NO manipulation here, I am not trying to fool anyone. Your initial complains were worded as to criticize me for not pushing 'a good idea'. A 'good idea' that you call a null tell and criticize me later for even bringing up in the first point. I saw this as an inconsistency and tried to question over it, but apparently pissed you off in doing so.
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This again is a spin of playing the victium. You want to turn this into a damned if you do, damned if you don't moment. I hate to see people want to play UTR as it screams scum to just come back and say but if I did this then I would have been attacked.
Please grow some balls and just do it. If you don't do it people are going to question you about it.
Having a musing about something and just siting on it to see if convo happens is one thing but you didn't do that. Instead you go into well it was a weak tell anyways why should I have to a well if I did say something then I would have been attacked for bringing up a weak excuse.
A town person doesn't worry about what people think is scummy. They look for what is scummy enough said.Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.-
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farside22 Mafia Mum
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Not true. Most people responded to the arguement there are a few staying out of it and trust me I'm notice those that are.This complaint is silly. The moment you started attacking me on it, no one had any desire to comment further on it, they wanted to stay out of the crossfire.Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.-
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farside22 Mafia Mum
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I didn't really see you asking for it. I will have to go looking for this. I don't have any of my games saved into a file like others.@Farside: You've ignored my request for meta of you being emotional and getting annoyed and agitated over arguments.
I would jokingly say go looking at any game with me and empking but I don't think you have a sense of humor.
As for the head desk I missed i said it twice. Mostly I do it for sarcasm reason's. I saw 3 people doing things that make be just hurt a bit from the lack of real scum hunting I just always feel like smacking my head with my hand.Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.-
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farside22 Mafia Mum
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This is the first game I thought of when I say I'm emotional and hot headed.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10231
Honestly there are others but I can't remember the name of those games right now. I will go looking if you want me to for more examples of my verbal aggression.Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.-
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farside22 Mafia Mum
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Did my read and I have a few questions to different people.
YJ - seems to be a jokerster of sorts. I don't really get how claiming a role that doesn't exist in the game will promote discussion. I don't care that it's RVS I don't see wagon on someone a real good thing but that's just me. Do you find something wrong with having a discussion so soon?
Maemuki - Why do you want people to wagon you? Seriously going through 1 random vote to another is that your typical play style? Post 35 nikanor was talking about my newbie comment and about me but comes back to say I'm town (this is in regards to your post 35)
EB - Why did you fall into this joke of a band wagon? What was the assurance from maemuki that you talked about in post 25? Please explain what you meant in post 36 to nik. I don't see how nik is calling anyone really scummy. Most people feel that anyone who uses the newbie defense is more likely scum. Do you find this normal? I do want to comment about post 43 and EB's annalysis of scien. As that was my biggest issue with how he presented himself. Enough said on that subject. What about my argument with the OPen queue and the game here is giving you doubts?
Oddin post 56: Again I don't like how he twist the discussion being made as a negative. As zazie points out later that comment can be interputted either way. I feel like this twisting comments like this to be highly scummy.
fuzzyman post 87: This is fuzzy's first post which I don't care for at all. With everything going on and that is the best he comes up with! It just boggles me to no end. Post 94 Where do you see Oddin saying the exchange between me and scien is a lot of nothing? He seems to have made case against me from what I saw. What is your point in post 168?
Zazie: Why are you voting against scien?
Hewitt post 167: This makes no sense. If you find me the scummiest player you should be voting for me at this point. There is no reason to withhold a vote. If a player is the scummies you find why are they not lynch worthy? Do you see anything that fuzzy has done that you would consider scum hunting?
Right now on reread I have to agree with the fact that fuzzy isn't trying to do anything this game. The biggest post he made wasn't that great in my eyes. Oddin for his use in twisting an explaination into something scummy. I typically see scum use this move on others. Putting words in someone's mouth is a bit scum tell for me. YJ is doing even less then fuzzy and yet no one seems to really be calling him on this. Is he typically useless?
I still don't like scien but I can see the hypocrissy comment but I still, still don't like when someone ask questions to me without answering the questions first and then following my reasoning as their own. If makes me feel all sorts of scum vibes.
For now.
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vote: OddinSarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.-
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How did I not answer it?Fuzzyman wrote:I feel that the Scien point I brought up in 168 was the most important one that you haven't answered. That's why I mentioned it. And to be quite honest, I feel somewhat inclined to go ahead and vote you if you don't care to do so.Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.-
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farside22 Mafia Mum
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Did you not even read my reason's for the vote? That is not OMGUS. OMGUS is I vote you for voting me. That is clearly not the case. Again you twist things that are not fact.ODDin wrote:
Ladies and gentlemen, OMGUS.farside22 wrote:For now.
unvote:
vote: OddinSarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.-
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farside22 Mafia Mum
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I did say I was rereading the game. Have you never done that and gone back to things you missed and wanted to question?Quite the barrage of questions, and of all things about my RVS votes, not my later ones with real content. Why are you playing so aggressively on weak tells this game?
Honestly the rest of what you said has been I partially agree and a partial I disagree but nothing scummy and mostly town read.Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.-
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farside22 Mafia Mum
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1) I was arguing with scien at the time and frankly focused on that more then others.ODDin wrote:Yeah, like you'd say "I vote ODDin because he voted me". You voted me because of the argument I laid out against you. This certainly makes it feel like OMGUS. OMGUS means that I suspect that the true reason behind your vote isn't the one you've stated - and I do.
Other than that:
1) This is hardly new material. You commented on this argument long ago, and nothing new was said about it in quite some time. Why did you vote for me only now?
2) What you're doing is hypocritical. Earlier, you've voted Scien for not pushing a weak case. Now you're voting me because I did push a weak case.
3) This is the second time now you're accusing me of not reading things, which feels like you attempting to invalidate my arguments. I am reading what you're saying, and I know what's going on. When I say something, it means I think so even if other things have been said on the subject matter - that is, it means I think you're lying.
2) your case is'nt weak it's a fabrication and a twisting of words
3) you are calling it OMGUS which is not the case and when I read what you write I see nothing so far that shows you read what I wrote. You focus on one comment but not the whole thing. You pick out things and twist into something it's not. Hench my vote on you. It has nothing to do with your case on me. It's how you word things to make it more scummy when if you read everything stated it can be interputed any way but you put it as scummy.
Once again I find you twisting words which I see scummy.Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.-
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farside22 Mafia Mum
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This was a typo. I was asking if you were just trying to say I'm not going to say a word. Hence my no comment from the peanut gallery after that sentence."Or is this like saying I'm not going to say a worday a word type thing?".
As for the rest and just really a last question on the subject for now Scien. How long was I supposed to wait till you stated that your first message was weak? If no one has said anything to you about it would you even have brought it up yourself?
Last comments and I forgot who mentioned this right now, but I am trying not to bring up pairings right now as there are mason's and monk teams in the game and I don't want to show scum who I see as pairing till someone lynched turns up scum or is about to be lynched then I would comment on a pairing with said player.Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.-
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farside22 Mafia Mum
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1) I would vote scien again but there is more then one scum. I'm not satisfied with everything but and I say but a few things he said lead me to back off and see if maybe I'm wrong about my read on him.1) I take this as you saying your vote on Scien had gone stale, so you went back to stuff you had already commented on on page three to get a new vote.
2) Show how it's a fabrication. Your ODDin vote does, in fact, look like OMGUS, as you are not showing how it twisting your words.
3) Quote yourself. Show us the context that you think ODDin is taking your material out of, and I will believe you. Simply saying, 'You're twisting my words,' is not an adequate defense.
2) How is is OMGUS?
3) I will do that in my next post but the fact you bring up the first one that is my initial issue and just push it off as not twisting words which others have mentioned really make me leary of youSarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.-
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farside22 Mafia Mum
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You showed yourself the quote in question. If you didn't know what I was talking about I would say sure let me get on it. 2 people pointed out the fact that the quote in question was taken out of context.Nikanor wrote:
This is what you appear to be doing as you are not providing adequate justification for your vote. Nowhere do you prove, attempt to prove, or even take steps toward an attempt to prove the hypothesis that ODDin is twisting your words.Nikanor wrote:I see OMGUS as an attempt to discredit your attacker by making him look scummy, thus discrediting his argument. This is what you appear to be doing.Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.-
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farside22 Mafia Mum
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Odin case in full:
Twist the comment I made when explaining my theory on why I feel scien's vote and actions were scummy
After I explain my reasoning for my comment he continues to twist the comment into a negative and focas it as scummyODDin wrote:
Could well be read as: look how extremely and terribly aggressive I'm being right now. Ergo: I'm not scum.farside wrote: I notice that very few scum now how to be aggressive in the beginning of the game. They either followers, or they hem and haw or backtrack or make wishy washy comments. I don't go after the agressive person. typically scum watches, waits and doesn't do much else.
Say this to me about his vote however:ODDin wrote:
I have read the exchange well enough, thank you, and yes, I know this comment was triggered by you answering a question. However, it feels to me you used it to say "look here, look here, I'm not scum." It's a gut feeling, I feel like you, umm, "overexplained" with this post.farside wrote:I was asked from scien why I felt him not being aggressive was bad and I was answering the question. I get the impression reading your comments that you didn't read the exchange between us at all.
Finds scien's reaction town. I keep feeling there is a pairing here which really struck me with scien's first comment to now this one.ODDin wrote: farside: I voted for you on the 3rd page of the first day of the game, with no other votes against you. At this stage, I don't see my vote as expressing "I want you lynched at the end of this day". It's meant to pressure you. It's there so I can analyse the way you and others react to it. At the moment, I don't see anyone at all I want to actually lynch - all current arguments are pretty weak, mine included.ODDin wrote: Yes, your argument against him does have merit. However, I don't feel his words changed the status of the argument. He reacted pretty much the way I'd expect him to react, be he town (who made a small mistake) or scum (that doesn't crack that easily).
Not only twisting words but I feel like this shows a real lack of scum hunting. Just voting on pressure with weak reason and seeing no one else to talk about in the game
again he misinterupts or twist my words. Here was what was said before this.ODDin wrote:farside - of course I expect you to defend. I was replying to post 97, where you basically said that I voted you over a very weak argument. Yes, it's weak, but mind you, I don't think you can hold that against me at this point in the game. The beginning of the day is a good time to be voting and pressuring over all sorts of things to stir things up and get healthy discussion. You accused Scien of *not* doing that, after all.
Again I wrote twice I found his comments twisting of my words. My thoughts were on paper of why I felt his actions scummy I see this once again as a twisting of words. He takes everything away I said and focused it as though all I did was vote for him which is not the case.farside22 wrote:
Yet the only reason for you vote is because I was explaining why I don't like scein's lack of agression and I'm defending my statement that you pointed out because you seemed focas on something that was an explaination to another player and not a hey look I'm agressive so I must not be scum as you so put it and yes that is twisting someone's words.ODDin wrote:
I have read the exchange well enough, thank you, and yes, I know this comment was triggered by you answering a question. However, it feels to me you used it to say "look here, look here, I'm not scum." It's a gut feeling, I feel like you, umm, "overexplained" with this post.farside wrote:I was asked from scien why I felt him not being aggressive was bad and I was answering the question. I get the impression reading your comments that you didn't read the exchange between us at all.
ODDin wrote:
Ladies and gentlemen, OMGUS.farside22 wrote:For now.
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vote: OddinSarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.-
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Was this not clarification enough?Nikanor wrote:
You still need to clarify this.farside wrote:3) I will do that in my next post but the fact you bring up the first one that is my initial issue and just push it off as not twisting words which others have mentioned really make me leary of you
You showed yourself the quote in question. If you didn't know what I was talking about I would say sure let me get on it. 2 people pointed out the fact that the quote in question was taken out of context.Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.-
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farside22 Mafia Mum
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I feel leery seeing you post my exact issue I had with Oddin but still calling my vote OMGUS.Nikanor wrote:
I got two totally different meanings from the two things you quoted. What happened to the part about being leery when you reiterated?farside wrote:Was this not clarification enough?Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.-
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farside22 Mafia Mum
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So what I'm not supposed to vote for you since you voted for me? Because that's what I'm reading here. I have a valid case I just posted all my points and these are your wordsODDin wrote:
I never, ever, said i think Scien is town. All I said was that his reaction to the argument didn't make me feel he's more (or less) scummy. I said this in post 151, although I think it should've been clear even before that. I also said several times that farside's argument against Scien has a point - that is, I think it gives Scien scum points, albeit not much.farside wrote:Finds scien's reaction town. I keep feeling there is a pairing here which really struck me with scien's first comment to now this one.
So who's twisting whose words?
I also explained the OMGUS thing. No decently experienced scum votes without giving any arguments at all. OMGUS helps scum take the heat off themselves by turning the attack towards the one who's attacked them. It's usually pretty difficult for people to simultaneously suspect two people who are both attacking each other (although in this game, it might actually mean they're both scum without any busses involved, but that's a different point).
So, when a decently experienced scum undertakes OMGUS, one would expect him to fabricate an argument to support it.
You getting all that edgy over me saying it's OMGUS only strengthens my suspicion. I'd expect town to react a bit more calmly to accusations, really. After all, if you're town then you know you're town, and truth works in your favour. Also, town tend to more readily acknowledge when arguments against them have basic merit, and don't feverishly try to counter every single accusation being thrown in their general direction.
ODDin wrote:
That is not twisting them around to make them sound better.Yes, your argument against him does have merit. However, I don't feel his words changed the status of the argument.He reacted pretty much the way I'd expect him to react, be he town(who made a small mistake) or scum (that doesn't crack that easily).Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.-
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I'm taking it more you feel town based on your vote and reasoning of the vote.ODDin wrote:*facepalm*
Read the sentence. I removed the parantheses to make it easier for you. Now read it again. Now understand what it says. Thank you.ODDin wrote:He reacted pretty much the way I'd expect him to react, be he town or scum.Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.-
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Reading your vote on me with your case all you say in a nutshell is you think I'm scum because of a comment I made explaining ti scein why I think he's scum and being too aggressive and basing that on one game where you know a person was scum who was aggressive.ODDin wrote:... What?
What has my vote on you has to do with my opinion on Scien? Suspecting you doesn't prevent me from thinking your arguments are correct - if only for the fact that you and Scien can be a mafia goon and a werewolf for all I know.
Is that pretty accurate?
Did you read the game I gave an example of?
What case would you have on scien if any?Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.-
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farside22 Mafia Mum
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you should read it then tell me your thoughts in comparison to this gameODDin wrote:My original vote on you was based on two things:
1) You were far too annoyed and edgy over what seemed to be a not so strong argument. (It's not the argument itself which bothers me - it's the way you handled the discussion around it.)
Because I explained to someone why I find their nonagression scummy that makes is sound like I'm so towny? That makes no sense.2) One of your posts made me feel like you're trying to implicitly show how oh-very-town you are.
I have some other issues against you which have appeared later.
Can't agrue with that. I can see it as inconsist reading back but I still felt and do feel strongly about how scein worded things after the fact1) Your inconsistency regarding the usage of weak cases (you accuse Scien because he didn't, you accuse others because they did).
I just made a huge post in which I show how I find you scummy. So far there is only 1 you really brought up to defend which I missed the scum part. Also I note it took me asking you to put your thoughts on scien and his actions to do so again it bothered me that you seem to neglect his actions.2) What I suspect to be OMGUS.Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.-
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farside22 Mafia Mum
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I really don't see what I missed with my answer her fuzzy. Am I supposed to make something more clear that is missing? Did I miss the question to his point? No I called it a miscommuniction which I do take blame in.Fuzzyman wrote:The one thing I'd most like to see is for this:
which was in response to this:Scien 146 wrote:2) I asked you about this around three times. I asked you where you thought the 'good thought' was in the two. You ignored the first two questions, then got 'angry' when I called you out on ignoring them. You then answered with "I think both are weak", which I took to mean you thought both of them were not 'good'. Apparently now you are saying something else.
to be responded to by farside. I'll be glad to get to Oddin's questionnaire after that post.Farside 143 wrote: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 07#1933707
2] This is where our and yes I say our miscommunication starts. The good idea was about oddin. The weak idea is wolfy. You talk about it being null (my words) in regards to wolfy but what you failed to realize or see I thought the musing on Oddin was validSarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.-
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farside22 Mafia Mum
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@Oddin: So far you named one game where you saw aggressive scum. Now tell me the number of games where townies are agressive and compare for me.
Do you assume all scum is aggressive?
You never said any of this. You "interperpted" as scummy showing it as something it clearly was not to anyone who read my full post and have now attached it with an think she has an ulterior motive when 2 people commented that my statement can be made either good or bad.I've already answered to that huge post several times. Here above I've answered to a part of it again. Your post is mostly based around me twisting your words. I don't understand how saying "I think farside is lying" or "I think farside has ulterior motives" is called twisting your words.Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.-
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farside22 Mafia Mum
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I know I missed it the first time when I was arguing. I don't recall seeing it more then twice but that's just based on what I recall.Fuzzyman wrote:Would you say that you necessitated Scien to ask that multiple times?Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.-
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farside22 Mafia Mum
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farside22 Mafia Mum
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I stated that an answer to scien about why I felt his lack of aggression is scummy and oddin's response was to post my comment and say it as "i'm aggressive, look at me" which was not the case at all. That is clearly twisting the factsMaemuki wrote:
It's better than not posting at all.Not only twisting words but I feel like this shows a real lack of scum hunting. Just voting on pressure with weak reason and seeing no one else to talk about in the gameAnd what was the twisting?I'm not seeing it...but then again I'm maybe not reading this very well.
But you could be making an crap argument to support his lynch. Hey, I've seen it happen.[/quote]Did you not even read my reason's for the vote? That is not OMGUS. OMGUS is I vote you for voting me. That is clearly not the case. Again you twist things that are not fact.
Read post 240 is the long version of my case on him.Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.-
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farside22 Mafia Mum
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How do you find that he is represting what I said in the statement that was a direct answer to a question I was asked by a player to mean what he thinks it means?ElectricBadger wrote:Welcome, Rice.
'Twisting words' usually implies misrepresenting them to mean something they didn't. I don't see that as the case; it's not a difference of meaning or context, just of importance and inference. I think the comment provides a possible insight as to why farside is playing so aggressively over minutiae - something I can't really explain as normal behavior. Question IMO is whether she's trying to be ultra-townie or just trying to distance herself from her scumminess.Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.-
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farside22 Mafia Mum
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in case that's not clear to people.
I see it this way. I was asked a question, i aswered the question. Another player pulls that answer out and automatically pulls the "look at me I'm aggressive I must be scum/town" comment out which is not the case in my mind all I did was anwser a question asked to me.
As it has been pointed out it could be interputted either way but he is taking the I must be scum approach which I find an interperuptation and not actual scum hunting and hence scummy.Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.-
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farside22 Mafia Mum
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When a comment like I made can be skewed to be a interptation of hey look I'm agressive so I must be town or scum and you point to it as scum while saying all my points I made had merit but you find my aggression scummy because of another game I find you not to be scum hunting but using excuses to buy a vote.
Finally I was asked to make as case I was explain to explain comments I made and I did as such. Why do you seem to call it much ado about nothing when others ask should I just sit there and say nothing as 4 others have done so far?Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.-
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farside22 Mafia Mum
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