Mini 880 - Mini Quick and Dirty - Game Over

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/confirm

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

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Troll gives warm greetings to all!

So here be some thoughts Troll has about the setup we be working with:

1. The limited reveal be an interesting twist from the standard. It makes it more important that town truthfully give their roles when them be about to get lynched (not before unless there be some other reason.)

2. The activity requirements be slightly more stringent than normal but that should be fine. It just be something to be aware of.

3. Troll suspects based on the posts others be making that not all have taken to heart the part about votes at the end of posts. This will be a fine test to see how strictly BigBear will follow that part of the rule set. The required unvote also be something worth keeping in mind as we go as it has the potential to cause confusion.

For being the first one alphabetically on the list of players not to have posted yet Troll will be voting AGar.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

Vote: AGar

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Unvote: AGar

Vote: ODDin

for being the first person alphabetically not to have posted yet.

This be a test to see how strictly the rules will be enforced. Troll no be sure whether the unvoting and the bottom of the post part are requests or rules.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

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Last time I saw someone get worked up over an obvious joke in RVS, they were scum.

Last time I caught someone doing something I found scummy in the RVS, I voted for them.

Last time Troll saw someone hammer it was scum. That no makes hammering something Troll finds scummy.

If ekiM thinks that this issue does be something scummy it seems likely that we'll see some further indication (perhaps like the conversation happening now.)

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

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@Raskol, what you say be true. It be unlikely that ekiM was just bringing up his point coincidentally. Troll's second sentence was actually supposed to be pertinent to the situation as well. If ekiM had simply brought it up and then done no pursuing of any sort it would be noteworthy. As him be having a discussion with Scien Troll finds it an unremarkable part of play. Actually, Troll was largely meaning to do to you what Troll thought you were doing to him; seeing if your comment was meant to lead somewhere. It seems that it was.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

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@Raskol, the issue here for Troll be how much importance you seem to be placing on moving the early votes. Unless you think that a vote on Scien would definitely cause a different sort of interaction that would help ekiM determine if Scien is scum it seems like a silly expectation. Having said that, it's your expectation to have or not. Troll be of the opinion that early votes don't need to follow suspicion closely as the suspicions will be fairly weak across the board at this point and a frequently moved vote has less impact than one that shows some stability.

Mind you Troll no even be at the spot in the game where Troll be voting for any reason other than people not having posted yet. Troll hasn't seen anything that be nearly scummy enough to warrant a deliberate vote. Right now Troll just be getting a feel for the flow of the game and the players that Troll no has played with before.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

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@ODDin, Troll prefers to use Trollspeak but if it really be troubling after another couple days then Troll can drop it. Troll did ask about it before the game started but perhaps you didn't see that question (Troll says much so it be easy to lose a question or two in the words at times.) Troll also had a reason other than just being a pest to push on the voting formats. If BigBear was planning to be strict about it then there were going to be times people expected votes to get counted when they didn't. Eliminating any ambiguity about that now before it comes up with a L-1 situation or a potential hammer was important. Evidence for this as an issue can be seen in the fact that the three players who posted before Troll all used the wrong format.

Mod: Thanks for clearing the voting issues up! From here on out Troll will try to observe your preferences as them do be entirely reasonable.

@Ojanen, the methodical voting pattern occasionally leads to the content stage via the examination of the motives for using a methodical voting pattern. In fact in Tofu Mafia it lead to a fair amount of suspicion for Troll (if Vi be watching the game Troll be sure that them hate that Troll be doing it again.) Mostly it be a way to flag those who aren't participating yet in the early game until Troll has a better reason to cast a vote though.

Some further thoughts then:

Scien is playing like Troll expects him to as town rather than scum based on previous experience.

ekiM isn't playing like Troll thought him might if him were scum (though that be less strong a statement than it might appear.) Additionally, the expanded rules for claiming under pressure he gave are ones that Troll agrees with for the most part. That should be largely common sense though.

Raskol's stance of votes seems to be desirous of imposing his early game vote theory which Troll no particularly agrees with on everyone else. Troll no loves that at all. Troll needs to watch him play more and decide whether it will just be a game style thing (from his posts in MD Troll thinks that could easily be the case.)

Papa Zito be using an opening Troll has seen him use in games Troll hasn't been in and doesn't seem that informative.

AGar doesn't get to play the newbie card this game. He has enough experience relative to the rest of us that it's not acceptable. Further, the end of RVS is a terrible reason to unvote despite how often it be given.

Amished's take on meta seems fine to Troll. Troll uses meta primarily to get a feel for levels of competence which be harder to fake if people be playing to win. Clearly some of these other thoughts be evidence that Troll takes away some feel for the type of play to expect for alignments for some players but it just be useful for an initial read. Mostly in this game Troll knows that Troll can expect across the board competence so the meta will be less of an issue.

Sando needs to post so that Troll will see more of his play and stop associating him with Santos just because of his name. Also, he's the first person alphabetically not to have posted yet.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

Unvote: ODDin

Vote: Sando

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Troll be tired and off to Troll's cave now but even as tired as Troll be Troll can see that we have a vote count this page. How curious.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

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Troll has had a busy last couple days but expect something from Troll this afternoon (PST).

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

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@AGar, you, like everyone else in this game, are here because you're good at the game. Troll will let the self-deprecation that has happened already go but not accept any more if it looks like you or anyone else be using it as an excuse for whatever play happens.

@ekiM, Troll has seen Papa Zito start out the game saying that one particular player or set of players is scum and move from there. If him do be serious about it now (as others think him be) then Troll will be interested in seeing the reasons. Troll had been writing off his push for SerialClergyman as just something that Papa Zito would do at the start of a game.

@everyone, reading VPBaltar's stance as a threat to ignore Papa Zito or others seems off. Troll be perfectly willing to filter out some posts as fluff when Troll reads them. Thus far, unless there be a reason to go back and do otherwise later Troll largely be doing that with what Papa Zito has said in most of his posts. Actually the objections to Amished using the same sort of filter in a slightly different way be surprising as well. Troll also be leaning towards Raskol just being a serious player and thus Troll has less issues with him and his vote stance than Troll did before. Troll be fine with serious players.

@Sando, more voting or cases. Ideally both.

@SerialClergyman, what do you be doing that makes everyone vote for you? What do you be doing that should make people not vote for you? Troll no sees either of the two.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

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Hmm, let Troll phrase the second part in a slightly different way then. Who do you think we should be voting for instead of SerialClergyman? What scum hunting are you doing that Troll no be seeing? Troll no minds not seeking self preservation as long as there be scum hunting attached. In fact, Troll prefers lack of self preservation with scum hunting attached to anything that no involves scum hunting..

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

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@Amished, Troll intended to include some opinions beyond simply interesting in Post 90 (i.e. Troll had town reads of varying degrees on Scien and ekiM, weak scum reads at the time for Raskol and AGar and null reads on Amished and Papa Zito.) Since then Raskol has moved back to null and Sando has slipped to a bit scummy as him has posted but not given Troll anything to work with. What beyond that do you be expecting from Troll so far as opinions go? The game be early and Troll still largely be getting a feel for the lay of the land so strong reads be unlikely.

@SerialClergyman, does less edgy imply more likely to be town to you? If not for pushy play at the start what do you expect to lead to better reads as the game progresses?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

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@SerialClergyman, the edgy question and the pushy question weren't particularly supposed to be related. Edgy was for Amished and Troll; pushy was for SerialClergyman and generic any-players.

Troll tends to think that passive play day one does result in less information for future days. Perhaps passive no be the descriptor you would use to describe your day one strategy but it seems to be the playstyle you be defending. And of course that probably be largely irrelevant to Troll this particular game so long as you express opinions about the play that you see.

Does the experience level in this game change the degree to which the edginess is an indicator for you? Would risking getting scum partners lynched semi-randomly day one really be such a bad thing?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

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@Amished, you be most welcome to refer to Troll as Troll, in fact Troll encourages it. As it be an established and unambiguous nickname it should work fine for votes as well.

@SerialClergyman, Troll would assume that there be another "being able to discern which slips caused by pressure are scummy and which ones aren't" component to Raskol's wedge theory. That just be an assumption of course. For Troll that actually be a huge part of the game as mistakes can be nicely telling for either scum or town if one has enough context to work with.

@everyone, Troll has seen enough of SerialCleryman's responses to pressure to not be interested in lynching him day one unless he does something particularly scummy from here on out. Troll expects to see his thoughts as he has them and plans to judge him based on those. If them fail to manifest Troll will be able to judge that as well. In any case, Troll has been able to establish expectations from what him has said.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

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@ODDin, SerialClergyman's responses to Troll's questions thus far have lead Troll to believe that it will be easier to get a read on him in future days. Troll believes him will participate and thus, so long as him does, Troll no be that interested in pursuing his lynch right now when there be others that Troll expects to be clearer on.

@Amished, Troll no meant to imply a town read on SerialClergyman which you seem to have taken from Troll's comments. Troll just feels that him will be better to look at closely later and that there will be better options to consider for the lynch today. Troll be happy enough with his answers and him be willing to give them. When there be better questions to ask that will be valuable.

@Sando, what would you like to see happen at this stage in the game. Apparently it's not asking who people find suspicious so what would be a better course for us to follow for now?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

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@Sando, Troll sees you reacting to accusations for the most part. There be opinions there but Troll wonders what else you would like to see happening now. Surely that latest reaction show that this isn't what you would like to spend day one doing; Troll just be trying to figure out what alternatives you might prefer. Troll be attempting to provide a chance for you to be proactive rather than reactive.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

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@SerialClergyman, it be a bit curious that you no had noticed this before as you and Amished seemed to be talking about it earlier (Troll's answer to a question as compared to yours) but Troll has given a few opinions beyond saying that Troll no wants to lynch you today as Troll expects to get a better read on you as we go. A summary appeared in Post 162:

@Amished, Troll intended to include some opinions beyond simply interesting in Post 90 (i.e. Troll had town reads of varying degrees on Scien and ekiM, weak scum reads at the time for Raskol and AGar and null reads on Amished and Papa Zito.) Since then Raskol has moved back to null and Sando has slipped to a bit scummy as him has posted but not given Troll anything to work with. What beyond that do you be expecting from Troll so far as opinions go? The game be early and Troll still largely be getting a feel for the lay of the land so strong reads be unlikely.

Troll can update those. Sando's reactions seem defensive with a vibe Troll no cares for so Troll be happy enough with Troll's vote there. ekiM's town read was based on his activity that Troll found helpful but since that has dropped off Troll has some worry that him be going for a strong start then background play approach that Troll would expect from him as scum given what Troll knows. If him gets replaced or starts being more active in the way him was earlier Troll will give that player spot a slight town read but if him continues with reduced activity Troll would change that to a slight scum read.

Papa Zito was apparently going with the opening Troll thought him was. As him was away from all of Mafia Scum over the weekend Troll now needs him to participate but Troll thinks that this will happen; scum in the background isn't really his cup of tea for playstyle. ODDin isn't play how Troll be used to but this could be because him be more on the defensive. Troll has only seen him as scum and has thought him was town both times with some reservations. Troll thinks him be a bit town with some reservations this time as well as him no be doing what Troll would expect him to as scum but Troll no trust Troll's ODDin reads.

VP Baltar going after Papa Zito no be surprising but Troll be trying to decide whether Troll expects him to be more likely to do so as town or scum. He has enough knowledge of Papa Zito to make it something he might not have done as well.

@Amished, you really thought anyone here was going to push for an early cop claim and expected to have any chance to get away with it? That sound unlikely to Troll.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

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@Amished, and you thought this was what Papa Zito might have picked up on? It was you who said them thought them knew what Papa Zito had in mind, right?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

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Troll gives warm welcome to Charlatan! Troll looks forward to hearing what you have to say about what has happened thus far.

@SerialClergyman, do you think that Amished not noticing the vote count was intentional?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

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Troll be most sorry for not having been here this week. It has turned most busy. Troll will have time tomorrow and will share Troll's thoughts. There be a couple questions Troll saw and Troll will answer them.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

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@Papa Zito, why do you think that Troll doesn't like the opening you used? Troll be largely indifferent towards it but Troll no recalls actually saying what Troll thought about it at any point, just that Troll found it something Papa Zito would do and that it no helps for a read on Papa Zito.

@VP Baltar, Troll thinks that the views ODDin be expressing are consistent with what Troll expects him to believe to some degree. Using the deception from Papa Zito as a large part of a day one vote is something him would do. Troll continues to have a mild town read for ODDin based on Troll's expectations.

Mod: Could we get a current vote count and an exact time for the deadline please?

It looks like the deadline should be sometime in the next couple days so it probably be time to figure out what wagons we be looking at and picking one. Troll be fairly flexible at this point but no one has surpassed Sando in terms of Troll's desire to lynch them. Troll wants to see just where we be now with votes though.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

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@Sando, you be right, Troll hasn't ever given a particularly strong case against you. Actually, Troll no has a particularly strong case against you or anyone else yet. Here be some reasons that Troll be voting for you:

The amount of complaining that people were asking for reads and votes rather than simlpy doing what you said you were doing, sharing opinions. It was an easy thing to make go away and yet you seemed to encourage it which made it a distraction.

The whole idea that asking for reads be scummy strikes Troll as scummy. Trying to construe early requests for who you find scummy to be constant requests and ones that assume you no will have any reasons to give seems ridiculous.

When it comes down to it you still be interacting almost exclusively with those that be attacking you and SerialClergyman. Your play do be a large focus of what be happening so being largely aware of that no be too surprising, but Troll no can think of a time when you even mentioned the whole Papa Zito early SRS BSNS issue for example.

On the whole it be a matter of the connections and the potential for connections that Troll sees. You no be branching out and exploring the whole game and there be what feels to Troll like some dwelling on the unimportant to keep others drawn in. Perhaps with a touch of indignance thrown in. Troll sees a game that looks more like it has a scum shape than a town shape.

Really though, we be getting to the end of the day, Troll no be any more sure that someone else be scum and you be our most viable wagon. Troll strongly believes that we want a lynch so Troll's vote will stay on you for that reason alone.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

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First off, Troll will be about at deadline. If moving Troll's vote will make a lynch happen then Troll will do it.

@Charlatan, Troll uses meta for an initial predictor of behavior and as a measure of competence in determining what level of observations be expected and what sorts of mistakes will be made (and hence what the mistakes imply about what knowledge beyond what is said in thread.) At the start of the game when there be so much less to go on it be useful as a starting point when judging those that Troll has seen play before, perhaps a 6 or 6.5 on a scale of 0 to 10. Later on it drops a fair amount as information from the game itself accumulates. Probably to a 2 or 2.5. Troll no has tried to quantify it before but those should be roughly right.

@ODDin, if it still be that much trouble Troll will stop on Day Two until one of Troll or ODDin be dead. It will make Troll sad though.

When it comes down to it you still be interacting almost exclusively with those that be attacking you and SerialClergyman.

This is constantly being thrown at me, I attacked Amished, he responded to me, I started the argument between us, how am i merely responding to his questions?

Where does Troll say there who started your issues with Amished? To be fair Troll does think that any attacking you did started after Amished requested opinions from you which Troll finds your reactions to consistently unhelpful but Troll no was indicating anything of that nature with the sentence you be quoting there.

Really though, we be getting to the end of the day, Troll no be any more sure that someone else be scum and you be our most viable wagon. Troll strongly believes that we want a lynch so Troll's vote will stay on you for that reason alone.

So you're basically divorcing yourself from responsibility for a vote/lynch? You accuse me of general apathy and a lack of engagement, yet are voting someone that you admit you don't really have a case on, and only because there's noone better. Sounds hypocritical in the extreme, and divorcing yourself from responsibility is extremely scummy, you sound like you're setting up a defence for when the person you lynch flips town of 'well I only did it because noone else was available'.

Troll will take Troll's share of responsibility for being early on your bandwagon and staying on it if your lynch happens. In some ways your statement that Troll doesn't really have a case and there's no one better is correct. Troll doesn't have a strong case (though everything Troll did list is something that troubles Troll some) and in many games Troll would expect to have a stronger feel for scum on day one but this game there no be anyone Troll feels is more likely to be scum. Troll no has any better choices than staying on your wagon based on that, yes. If you find that stance hypocritical then so be it.

@Papa Zito, the deadline does draw nigh, yes. You should move your vote to someone who be more likely to be lynched. As far as Troll's scum list goes, Troll be willing to answer, but Troll first wants to confirm that you have seen and read the following posts: Post 90; Post 162; Post 242. If you be making this request because you think that Troll no has been giving town or scum reads throughout the game then you be the third to do so (after Amished and SerialClergyman) when Troll thinks that Troll has been one of the more active posters of suspicions as we go.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

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@Papa Zito, the difference between Troll's vote right now and your vote right now be that Troll be voting on one of the viable wagons and Papa Zito no be. Waiting till the last minute to take a stand on an issue like this be off. Based on the information we have about who you think be scummy it should be clear where your vote would go. If your suspicions have changed then getting them out sooner rather than later would be more helpful for the town.

As for Troll's posting of suspicions, Troll would ask who you think has done so more than Troll has this game? Papa Zito did give one post giving one line of thoughts on everyone but none of it strikes Troll as any deeper than what Troll has said. Troll has given scum or town reads on any number of people based on the observations that you be talking about.

When did Troll move to high on your list of suspicions? If it was back at Post 272 why just say that you can never read Troll when you were willing to give a scummy rating to others? You have been asking for others thoughts on Troll which Troll suspected would be leading to something; it feels a bit more like testing the waters to see how you wanted your position to lie before committing but Troll wanted to give you time to get to whatever it was you were trying before commenting on it.

Anyhow, Troll's list of the three most likely scum would be: Sando, AGar and Amished in that order.

What would Papa Zito's scum list be?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

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@SerialClergyman, Sando seemed to be saying that Troll was trying to get out of any responsibility should Sando be lynched. Troll merely be asserting that this no be the case. Sando glossed over all the reasons but one that Troll gave for suspecting him, misinterpreted that one and focused on the final statement.

Externally Troll no be overly impressed by Troll's play this day though Troll does think that Troll be committing to various things more strongly than others seem to think be the case but Troll will often phrase things somewhat mildly. Another game (which Troll believes Troll linked earlier) where Troll played unimpressively day one was Tofu Mafia. There Troll's early play was pretty terrible; Troll thinks that Troll be doing a bit better in this game though. Troll be a bit slow but Troll likes to think that Troll learns over time.

From an internal perspective Troll feels that Troll be making reasonable progress for a day one in terms of gaining what Troll will need to make reads on future days so Troll be happy enough with that.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

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@Papa Zito, Troll be back for deadline like Troll said Troll would be. It seems that Troll no needs to move Troll's vote to make a lynch happen though so that be nice.

We might have some issues to talk about tomorrow based on what you seem to think Troll has said but them will keep till then.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

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And I'm back. RL has been giving me fits but I think that I should be out of the woods after this afternoon. I'll have a real post this evening.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

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Welcome to the game, Albert B. Rampage.

@Ojanen, distractions of the sort that Sando was making with his complaining about people asking for opinions are scummy because they take resources away from more productive lines of inquiry in a case where he could have simply given his opinions. That so much time was spent talking about something so essentially irrelevant almost certainly prevented the town from doing other useful scumhunting.

@Papa Zito, I'll be going back to our brief exchange shortly (I really hope tomorrow but I hoped that I'd be posting Saturday evening as well) and seeing if I can't clarify some things. You seem to be grumpy this game compared to how I've seen you play in the past and there are a couple ways I could take that. How much of a pain are you finding it to get on and play in this game right now?

@Raskol, I'll be very interested in your thoughts once you've done a reread. When Papa Zito asked me for a list of suspicions at the end of the day yesterday I decided to cap it at three and didn't explain them at all. I thought a bit about whether you should take the place of AGar or Amished as I don't think that I've got any idea of what your thoughts are on most of the player at this point.

@AGar, you did make my list as you've mostly kept under my radar. I'd like to see a top couple suspects from you when you've done your read as well.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

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My plans to get on Tuesday clearly failed to come through.

@VP Baltar, I wouldn't call Sando's lynch a policy lynch, no (though a deadline lynch would probably be fair.) I was voting for him because I found him at least as scummy as anyone else based on his play, not just because I thought the play was anti-town. That was pretty much my feeling throughout day one after he had made his first post and I no longer had anyone who hadn't voted yet to put some light pressure on with my vote. His play consistently came across as more obstructing the flow of the game than it did him trying to figure out who scum were. It seems my read was wrong but that happens, especially on day one.

@Papa Zito, I don't see any reason why my last post would have caused you to move your vote. I hadn't added anything new in particular and shouldn't have addressed any of the issues that you seem to have with how I've played so far this game. I'm not sure why you thought it was worth saying that you hadn't changed your mind.

That wasn't the reason for being grumpy that I would have expected (though I did expect you to acknowledge it for a different reason.) Could you point me to another game where you've had this reaction to not having town reads for people?

Waiting till the last minute to take a stand on an issue like this be off. Based on the information we have about who you think be scummy it should be clear where your vote would go. If your suspicions have changed then getting them out sooner rather than later would be more helpful for the town.

Nice twist but no, it no be off. It's that I'm not particularly enthused with either wagon and I'm hoping for a last-second miracle.

No, it really was off. You had Sando listed as number three on your list of suspects at that time. Your previous assessment of Sando was scummy. Day one if one of your top three suspects is one of the competing wagons and you've expressed suspicion for them it's off to be hanging back and not voting in a way that's going to be relevant to the way the day ends.

NO U

Really? At what point did I become the measuring stick for your play?

Your lack of scumhunting is scummy. Simply letting the game flow around you is scummy. Not taking a real stand on anything is scummy. Your earlier deflection and your "I'm rubber you're glue" defense is scummy. When I came to these realizations is immaterial.

My question about when I became suspect to you wasn't intended to discredit your suspicion as you seem to be taking it. I don't mind if people suspect me but in this case the timing is actually somewhat important. If you really weren't thrilled about the Sando lynch and would have found mine preferable (which was apparently the case) then you should have been doing something to cause that to happen. If that didn't come up till relatively late in day one then I don't have much issue with your choice of actions. If you thought that I was scummy back in Post 272 rather than simply trying to get more a read on me then you should have been doing more than simply asking what others thought.

As for your reasons for suspecting me now let's see if I can address some of them. If I've got any of them wrong do let me know.

You seem to think that I've been sitting back and simply letting the game happen without taking part in it. I don't go out of my way early in the game to change people's opinions most of the time in mafia. You've seen evidence of that in /in-vitational 2 where I explicitly refused to try to push a case on MiteyMouse for hohum and Sajin on day one. I had my vote where I wanted it throughout day one of this game. Most of the time that was Sando. Beyond that I asked questions when I saw things that I thought were worth pursuing and shared thoughts as I had them. If you don't like that I use the early game more for information gathering then I'll have to live with that but it's how I consistently play.

You find my suspicions in the game to be vague; I'm not taking stances strongly enough and am leaving too many options open. I don't make many absolute statements because there's very little that I'm sure of in the early game. When I point out things that might be important I'll give the possible explanations but no, I'm not going to commit early to being sure which is correct. I'd have to go back and check but I think that for the most part the reads I gave were for a particular alignment or null. In the long run it'll be how those accumulate which makes it clearer which of the two it is.

You think that I'm observing the game rather than analyzing it. What I have done is say who I think might be scummy based on what I've seen. Were I simply observing I wouldn't be doing more than noting what happened. I suspect that this one is actually mostly tied back to the strength of expression of my suspicions.

I'm not sure what the deflection you've mentioned is and you appear to think that I'm trying to take what you're saying you find scummy about me and turn it around to make you look scummy which I don't really understand.

And this post is long enough already. I've got other things to address and thoughts to share but I'll get that in another post.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

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@Ojanen, I think that when he gave his initial reactions to being asked for opinions Sando wasn't particularly likely to be the lynch. He could easily have made the negative attention on himself go away by providing his opinions. Instead he made an issue of it which distracted from the game. In the end it turned out that it lead to his lynch but when he made the choice I don't think that it was clear at all that it would.

And actually, calling my contributions today vague was pretty generous. I haven't been here for the game at all today. I haven't been on the site much at all for this game day as things have been busy but that doesn't make the absence here any more excusable.

@everyone, it seems that people are having trouble telling who my suspects have been. Today I've done little as I haven't been about so perhaps thoughts on everyone will be of use. I'll get me thoughts together on everyone and share that in a bit.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

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I've got time while I'm proctoring an exam now to post that I've been grabbing time now and then at home to get my reads done. I'll have that this evening. This is just to let you know that I'm still here to some degree. I see some comments directed at me but they're going to be third priority behind giving opinions on people and thoughts on the state of the game. Fortunately I think that addresses much of what people have asked but after I've finished the first two priorities I hope to have time for that this evening.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

AGar

: Some attention to ekiM, pass for Papa Zito, some attention to VP Baltar. Responds to Amished, Ojanen but not thoughts on them. Conversation with Ojanen. Vote for ODDin on day two seems to be his first mention of him at all in the game and he continues to push that. The first mention of Sando seems to come day two. He says that he would have been on the lynch if he were around. ODDin's behavior is rubbing him the same way but mostly he's just saying he doesn't like the cases without giving any details. My post in which I spent the bulk of the typing addressing Papa Zito moved me off AGar's number two spot but he doesn't have someone to go there now?

With ekiM gone he seems to have dropped any attention on the player spot which is probably fine except that he hasn't mentioned Charlatan at all except to respond to him. There are just too many players that he seems not to have said anything about at all and his case seems to be just following the general mood.

Amished - Albert B. Rampage

: I did have an issue with how Amished reacted to Papa Zito's initial vote. The fear of claiming doesn't do it for me and it does look like there was an attempt to build a case out of nothing (though I expected Papa Zito's efforts to be directed towards starting a wagon for the sake of starting a wagon so I'm a bit biased.) The rest of Amished's play felt a bit off but not so much as Sando's did on day one. Albert B. Rampage isn't playing how I'm used to for him but this is a different game setting than I've seen before. If I take out the lack of agitating that wouldn't be an alignment tell anyhow I'm more or less indifferent to what he's done and there's not a whole lot of it.

ekiM - Charlatan

: On the whole I liked ekiM's play at the start of the game which I've said before. The activity levels started to be a concern but then he replaced out which counters that nicely. Charlatan seems to be doing a good job of questioning and paying attention. His reasons for acting have yet to strike me as contrived. At this point I'm not worried about this player spot.

ODDin

: I've only ever seen him play as scum. Both times that happened I ended my part of the game thinking that he was probably town. Actually I'd say that he's playing this game a bit worse than those games on the whole but other than a few cases where he's pushing something harder than I might like I think that he's following what he finds to be the best lead. I don't think that he would stay on things as hard as he has if he were scum.

Ojanen

: I think that I come away from the game thinking that Ojanen is making a bigger impact than she is for some reason; I can't really think of anytime throughout the game where anyone has voiced any sort of legitimate suspicion of her which I seem to think is unique in this game at this time. Having said that I also tend to like what she's doing so she's not high on my list of priorities at this time; I'm apparently not going to buck that trend.

Papa Zito

: If I'd been able to be around more this game (to address the latest acusation that I'm trying to lurk through the game I can only say that I wish that were it as I'd feel much better about that; I just haven't had the time to do justice to any of the games I'm in or moderating right now) I might take more issue with his current push to get me lynched. As it is I don't find it overly unreasonable for him to focus on me now for that reason. I do have problems which I've already expressed with how he used his vote the towards the end of day one. I'm not impressed with the cases he's been making (though I have a bias here) and he seems quicker to dismiss anything he's perceiving as criticism than I'd love but I'm still trying to decide how much of that can be attributed to burn-out (I think that it's likely a fair amount.)

Raskol - Crypto

: Crypto hasn't been around long at all but he's certainly making an impression. I agree that it's likely at least one scum wasn't on the Sando wagon yesterday but I agree with others that it's not significant enough to be a reason to be restricting our attention for the lynch today. Crypto's play mostly feels right for what I've seen in the past and I don't have enough connections from him to work with yet. I did change my views a couple times yesterday about Raskol's play yesterday think was a matter of developing the correct expectaions for his play. In the end I decided that they were a null tell. Despite him replacing out the lack of information overall after the initial play is a slight scum tell for me.

Scien

: There is some tangling with people in the early game over issues that I think aren't important that based on my experience is a bit of a town tell for Scien. I don't really like how he's treating me with kid gloves and playing up expectations about me. I also expect him to be more engaged in the game than he is but that's certainly not something that's unique to him. He seems to have expressed strong enough opinions here that his lack of a vote now surprises me.

VP Baltar

: Somehow VP Baltar is someone else who I think of as having been more involved than I think he actually has for some stretches of the game but in this case other than at the very start of the game he's let us know when to expect that. I'm a bit uncomfortable with his overall interactions with Papa Zito. There's a fair amount of pressure for various things throughout the game but the times seem a bit unexpected. I'll have to look at that again at a later point I think. For now I'm happy enough with what he's doing.

My current list of suspicions then would be, from scum to town and with the ones in the middle be somewhat arbitrary:

AGar
Albert B. Rampage
Crypto
Papa Zito
Scien
VP Baltar
ODDin
Charlatan
Ojanen

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

Vote: Agar

[Zorblag]

@VP Baltar, the positions of Charlatan and Ojanen as first and second guess for town aren't really that far apart but I did intend the order that I gave. In my brief thoughts I chose to focus a bit more on what stood out for Ojanen which is that she hasn't stood out which is mildly surprising but as I said I like what she's done and the lack of attention from others isn't a reason to suspect her at this stage in the game so much as it's worth noting for the future. I also didn't bother noting in the last post that I like how Ojanen has pushed me a couple times; it feels about right for someone who hasn't played with me before and on topics that are worth pushing on.

Regarding Albert B. Rampage, I've only played with him in newbie games before so I expect a bit of a different approach to this game then I've seen from him in the past. In those other games he played the role of an agitator or a catalyst. He's not afraid to play abrasively and directly against the expectations that people have to get reactions. I'm not seeing that in this game but I've seen him play as both town and scum in the newbie games so the lack of that behavior isn't much of an indicator on it's own. What might be is that I believe that he must have been interested in joining this game from the start. BigBear had him ready as a potential replacement from the first time it got raised in game as an issue. I know that with his first post he said that he was going to be V/LA for the next week or so but even taking that into account I don't see the engagement that I think I'd expect. A part of that is going to be the game itself which has an off pace but I tend to think that an interested town Albert B. Rampage would be raising more dust than he has.

All of that is just looking at my expectations and energy levels though and it doesn't take any game connections into account yet so I didn't want to push at it just yet with my last post.

@AGar, you don't seem to have had much of an issue with Raskol that I can see looking over what you've posted. Am I right in thinking that Crypto has made himself the number two suspect in your eyes just with his own play since entering the game?

@everyone, I should be around tomorrow evening should my vote be needed to make a lynch happen but right now it's where I want it to be.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

I've said my piece for now. My vote is where it needs to be to make the lynch I prefer happen so I'm fine with someone hammering. Given his attitude I'm assuming that AGar would have claimed a power role by now if he had one.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

So was there a reason that you didn't hammer, Charlatan? You prefer the no lynch to the AGar lynch?

Did others think based on his being here that Charlatan had planned to hammer. I'm not at all thrilled with how this day has ended.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

I have trouble with that miscount claim given the zero votes that happened since post 599. Did you not realize what the vote count was there either?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

First things first. We most likely be in MyLo. There be one kill a night thus far so there be no reason to think that we have multiple scum teams, a Serial Killer or anything of that sort. The most likely scenario be a three person scum team which means that we should assume that any two misvotes on a townie lead to a quick hammer and a loss. Those that be voting should now unvote unless them have a reason to be sure that them are voting for scum.

Second, before any discussion happens Troll feels that it be time for a mass claim. Unless people want to present a reason not to do so at this time no other discussion should happen until that be done; there be no reason to give the scum any extra information during the process.

Troll would like to do a popcorn system. Unless there be any objections Troll will start the claim after people have had a chance to give input. We have 10 days to work with now so Troll would like to get this done with quickly; barring any objections Troll will be claiming tomorrow afternoon PST.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

Troll no did bring up the potential to no lynch today as Troll thinks that we probably be better off lynching. We likely have a no lynch available though it depends on a couple things in the setup which Troll no knows much at all about. A no lynch now potentially gives power roles an extra night to work if we have any but it actually makes a bigger impact if we can use it later in terms of target density for hitting scum. If others would like to no lynch today Troll could live with that but it no be Troll's preference.

If we do choose to no lynch then we should do it before having any other discussion today. There be no sense giving the scum more information than we have to for making their choice during the night.

As for the mass claim, Troll believes that Troll be at least somewhat suspected by many. Troll offered to go first because Troll figured it no would generate too many complaints and it would be a way to avoid extra discussion about who suspects whom which we should avoid prior to the claims if we be making them today. If there be a clear consensus for another candidate to claim first Troll will be happy to let them go first. Troll mainly be interested in getting this done quickly and without extra talking if we plan to do it (and it looks like most seem to support it at this time.)

@Crypto, this no be a matter of not having reads on others. The mass claim, if it happens today, should happen before any other talk so that scum have less information to use for faking claims.

At this time Troll supposes that Troll wants to see preference for a mass claim or no lynch from everyone. If there be a preference for mass claim then a preference for who goes first be good as well.

Troll prefers mass claim. Troll no has a strong preference for who goes first; mostly that it happens quickly.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@Scien, we have no way to know at this time if there be any power roles in the game. We have no way to know if there be any whether having another night for them to act be beneficial. We have no way of knowing that them would live until tomorrow. For all Troll knows the scum have an ability to get one extra kill in during a night or a day sometime in which case no lynch would lose the game. Troll no thinks that be overly likely but unless someone knows more about the setup than Troll does Troll feels that the extra information from a mass claim now be the more prudent choice. Troll no expects the claim to lead to more confusion; it seems more likely to help determine who we should be focusing on at this time.

Troll no be sure how likely we be to hit scum at this time. Troll thinks that if there do be three scum we have a pretty good chance of it today but how a claim goes would be a large factor in how likely Troll thinks we are to get things right.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@VP Baltar, there would be some setups where Troll would agree with Scien that the no lynch today would be the correct choice. This game the lack of information makes that a worse choice in Troll's opinion but Troll no minds if Scien disagrees. If we were to no lynch we would almost certainly want to do it before the mass claim; no lynching after the claim be done just gives the scum extra information.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@Scien, Troll no thinks that no lynch would be a bad idea, it probably be a reasonable move (the ways that it can lead directly to a loss be fairly limited and it be a bit unclear how the odds change either way in terms of potentially loosing a power role vs. having fewer potential lynches.) Troll just thinks that in the information poor environment we be in now it be better to do the claiming while we have more players so that we have a better chance of figuring out what our overall situation be which be very desirable.

@VP Baltar, Troll no be sure whether a no lynch after the mass claim would be stupid or not. It depends on how the claim goes. If we end up no lynching it will almost certainly have been better had we done it before the mass claim though.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

Troll believes and has believed that a mass claim be better than a no lynch as an option today. Troll said that Troll feels we probably be better off lynching (after a mass claim was implicit) than not lynching and Troll still believes that. If Troll ever failed to make that clear Troll apologizes but that be why Troll's first post this day talked about the mass claim option but not the no lynch option.

Troll believes and has believed that a no lynch would likely be acceptable.

The downsides of a no lynch before a mass claim be that we have less information for determining the setup and we might lose a power role to a night kill. The upside of a no lynch today and then a mass claim tomorrow be that we might get more information from the power roles and the density of scum goes up (probably from 3/8 to 3/7). Without knowledge of how many power roles still be in the game it no be clear which of those be the bigger factor. Troll's feeling be that we have so little information right now that the benefits of the claim will be more helpful.

As for lynching after the mass claim, how the mass claim goes will determine how Troll feels about that but probably it will be better to lynch once we have the information from the claim to work with.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

Troll believes that it is better to claim today than to no lynch right at the start. We no will be certain about who be telling the truth but the number of claims in and of itself will give us something to work with and who makes them and whether them be consistent will be new things that we can factor in when making future decisions. If we mass claim then Troll believe we will probably want to lynch once that be done. There be some chance that we will be able to narrow it down potential lynches for today based on what people claim and the scum will have information about what power roles the town have. If the claim no puts us in a position where that be the case then the no lynch option still be there Troll just no expects that be what will happen.

It comes down to Troll valuing the largest amount of information (as we should have more good information in the mix if we mass claim today rather than tomorrow when we will likely lose a member of the town to a night kill) more than potentially more detailed information from fewer players each of whom there be less reason to trust (for the same reasons that our chances of lynching scum go up slightly with fewer players in the mix.)

If you no like this stance at this point then so be it. Troll largely be repeating what Troll has already said at this point and that no be particularly productive. When the claim or the no lynch be done if this still be a major issue that will affect how we proceed Troll will deal with it again then.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@Scien, there do be a danger of scum lying about their roles, yes. The popcorn method be designed to try to make it more like that scum will have to stake out fake claims early but it clearly no be perfect.

Also, your chart looks like it be what people have said. At this point there no be much of a consensus. Scien be welcome to start the process if him sees this shortly and wants to. If him hasn't done so in about half an hour Troll will be claiming then and starting the process.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

Troll be a vanilla townie. Papa Zito can go next.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

Papa Zito actually. Troll suspected that would have started the best chain Troll could predict for getting to those Troll was most suspicious of most quickly from everything Troll has seen people say. Past that Troll will wait till the claim process be done before talking about suspicions.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

For now Troll's take on the developments be that we should finish the mass claim before we discuss what has happened or start voting.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

Hmm, where did we learn that about Ojanen? Troll no seems to have been aware of it from what she said but perhaps Troll has forgotten it?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

Yeah, Troll took a look at recent posts of hers just now and sees where she says that.

She seems to indicate that she'll have access to the internet at least briefly as soon as tomorrow morning if Troll be reading what she said and the times of the posts correctly. Troll no thinks that be too long to wait.

Ojanen, if you be skimming we have done a mass claim. Yours be the last claim to be made. If you could claim when you get on that would be ideal.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

So we know that at least one of Charlatan or Papa Zito be scum. This be the sort of situation where there no be a reason to no lynch after the mass claim. Some thoughts and some questions then; as a warning in advance, some of them be minor attempting outguessing the mod.

1. We no be in a hurry at this point. There be no need to rush with the voting. Troll would like to get this right.

2. The setup almost certainly isn't mountainous in disguise. That no would be balanced and both the reviewers would know it. Troll knows that we be going with a backup setup but it still no should be mountainous. We might have lost one or more power roles already but we should have had some in there at the start.

3. Given Vi's part in reviewing, a tracker be entirely believable as a town power role.

4a. If there be a three person scum team scum do have every reason to potentially throw away one of their number in a gambit that had a reasonable chance of getting a town player lynched today. The biggest problem Troll has at this time with Charlatan's claim be that it be too convenient. Him be under little suspicion and so him would be more likely to be believed when crafting a fake claim than most would.

4b. Papa Zito's game has been off from Troll would say the middle of day one or so. Troll attributes some of this to burnout which him mentioned at one point in some thread but no sited as a reason later when Troll asked about it. Him be spending more energy on lashing out at things than making cases during most of that time. Him be an easy target if him be town. Troll also largely expects him to object to Troll's description of his play that but Troll no really cares.

5. Troll had thought by the way AGar's death was handled (differently than Sando's in that we didn't learn his role until after the night was over) that him was likely to have some non-vanilla role. Troll thought scum was the most likely (clearly Troll was wrong) but that if him wasn't scum that him was probably a power role who's power involved something happening or potentially happening upon his death. The lack of his role now be frustrating as Troll no can tell whether the manner of death was just story telling or if it was more significant.

@Papa Zito, what is the name of your role in your role PM? What were your cases on Troll, VP Baltar and Ojanen? How certain do you be about Crypto's alignment at this time?

@Charlatan, please explain exactly what you thought was happening at the end of day two. Your explanation still no fits.

@VP Baltar, who do you think suspected ODDin at the end of the day yesterday?

@everyone, what role did you have in the aborted version of this game? Troll's role then was vanilla townie as well.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@Crypto, Troll's role just be Town. Troll would like to hear what Crypto's be now.

Troll has more to say after hearing that though Troll be even further behind in another game so Troll will be catching up there first.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

Troll's first role was Town which Troll said when Troll asked what the other roles others had gotten were. Crypto would only have gotten one role PM as him be a replacement. Incidentally, unless the scum can day talk Troll finds fairly likely that him be telling the truth due to the entirety of his part in the exchange for this issue. Playing as he did with another role strikes Troll as something that would involve more subtlety than Troll expects from him (that no be meant as an insult.)

Troll now sees what it was Charlatan no understood at the end of day two. The plurality vs. majority confusion be believable and be why Charlatan would have said him thought that the lynch was already a foregone conclusion without thinking that the day was already over. As we now know that both wagons were on town there no would have been a reason for either scum or town to fake that mistake. Troll knew that when day two started but was trying to figure out how it happened anyhow in case it would be useful to know.

As Troll said earlier, Charlatan's claim do be convenient. It actually no be so convenient as the one that Scien gave in Newbie Game 791 when him was scum as that one was supposed to reveal the entire scum team (that be the claim Papa Zito was referring to a bit ago.) Further, Scien's given motivations for the night actions there no fit as well as Charlatan's do here. Charlatan wanting Scien to go first with his claim actually matches well also if him had no result when tracking him for exactly the reasons that him gave.

Papa Zito's bullet proof vest item claim probably be even more convenient. It gives a reason for us to potentially believe that the other version of the game was one where there no were roles and instead there were items. At this point no one has any evidence that there were either roles or items in the first attempt at this game so that be a nice way to make Charlatan look worse. Papa Zito as town should have been using that rather than the claim that this be a mountainous game as his defense from the start if it were true.

Troll continues to believe that this no should be a mountainous game. If it do be then there should only be two scum so we no be in LyLo anyhow. Otherwise the balance no works at all and, as Troll said, with the reviewers involved Troll would expect even a backup setup to be at least reasonably balanced. It still be possible that we have already lost any power roles we had (or items if Papa Zito's version be correct) but the insistence by Papa Zito that this be mountainous be bizarre.

Vi being a reviewer makes the tracker role reasonable because Vi has strong, very public views about cops, specifically that them no should be used. Having a tracker as an information gathering role in a game that Vi had any part in designing be, if not expected, at least not at all surprising. Actually, this now helps Charlatan a bit given his statement about hoping a cop might investigate him during the night. Troll no thinks him would bother bringing that up if him knew this about Vi and him would likely have been somewhat likely to claim cop instead of tracker as a fake claim if him lacked that knowledge.

Troll wants to hear what Ojanen's role was last game before doing anything in the way of voting but at this time Troll finds Charlatan's reasons for how him acted to be reasonable and consistent. Papa Zito's reactions to being accused as him has on the other hand no feel consistent and fails to be convincing as a defense. If we were at the deadline Troll would be voting for Papa Zito now.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

VP Baltar, could you explain why you said that clearly the scum have no sense given their night kills already? Troll had expected you to think that more people had strong suspicions of ODDin when you made that statement but you only listed a couple. Troll also no found the kill of SerialClergyman particularly surprising.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

Papa Zito either be town and telling the truth about the bullet-proof vest as an item (and Troll would be willing to believe that a mini normal with items be plausible) or him be scum and giving a different way that power roles were handled in the initial setup to make it seem like standard power roles less likely to occur in this game. Actually there be other options as well but those be the two most likely. In any case, there do be a reason for him to make the claim the way him has as scum; Troll thinks it be a bit easier to argue for mountainous now (or at least against standard roles) if someone had an item in the original setup and no one of those that be alive now who got the PMs for the first game had roles there.

@Papa Zito, how did the bullet-proof vest work in the previous incarnation of the game? Also you no delivered your thoughts on your prior scum lists or how confident you be about Crypto's alignment. Troll still be interested in those.

@Albert B. Rampage, Troll also be interested in hearing what your case on Scien was going to be.

@Scien, said you had leads to share as well. Have you shared them?

@Ojanen, if you be skimming the game now could you please share the role and any abilities that you had in the aborted game?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

Yes, Troll be inclined to agree that it be clear now. Further him be unlikely to give away any more information about partners than him already has and Troll thinks that others have largely had a chance to react enough to make use of their reads for tomorrow. Troll be ready to put him at L-1 and no has a reason to delay the hammer at this point.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

Vote: Papa Zito

[Zorblag]

First off, congratulations scum! You did play well. Thank you for modding BigBear, Troll liked the flavor and though Troll will go over a few issues that came up Troll thinks that them all be things to have learned from and not the end of the world.

So Troll should apologize somewhat for Troll's play here. Troll got unexpectedly busy during this game and Troll thinks it hurt the town some. Having said that, Troll has trouble in games this size and larger at the start. There be too little information and too many people to keep track of for Troll to process well. Unless there be special dynamics or particularly polarizing play to use as a foundation Troll largely spends the early game lost. Troll actually feels this game was an improvement on Tofu Mafia in that respect; despite any feelings others might have Troll did more to express opinions than Troll has in the past. Troll did try to start with the rule quirks of this game to see if it would lead to anything helpful but Troll no saw that it did. As Sando be aware, Troll's case on him no was strong at all; Troll just never thought there was a better case to work from and day one Troll be primarily interested in having enough information out there to work with in the future.

The limited reveal aspect of the game no be something Troll was a huge fan of. It wasn't what Troll expected from a normal game and the lack of information did hinder Troll's ability to make some assessments as Troll normally would. The non-standard death for AGar was also troubling for Troll. Troll no could tell if it was because of some special role or because of story-telling. At the end of day three Troll struggled a bit with whether or not to bring up the fact that it happening made it less likely that there would be a tracker in the game (as the lack of information makes the tracker role that much weaker) but there was just so much more Troll disliked about Papa Zito's defense (the clincher being that him didn't remember how the bullet-proof vest worked) that Troll decided it wasn't worth bringing up. Troll was also slightly concerned that no one was considering some sort of re director scum role that would have made both Charlatan and Papa Zito's stories true. Troll no mentioned that either as Troll has realized that Troll be too imaginative when playing when it comes to roles in closed games.

The bullet-proof vest granting complete invulnerability do be too strong. If Troll had that (and realized it) then Troll would simply have claimed it right at the start and then never been killed. Troll no be sure how it would have gone down but Troll would hope that scum would assume that Troll was a serial killer and trying to bluff and would at some point waste a kill on Troll. Having it be something that doesn't prevent lynches and be a mandatory transfer that works on it's target for the night it gets transferred be like having a doc who loses their powers if them ever protect the mafia (with the possibility to get them back if there ever be only one mafia left). It also some some chance to set up interesting extra information so Troll does like that item/role idea.

@BigBear, did the roleblocker block the bulletproof vest? If they had targeted the player with it and the vig had targeted the player would the vig have worked? Or did the roleblock prevent the transfer of the vest to another player? Or something else?

At the end of the game Troll was pretty sure that both crypto and Scien were town. Troll's first guess for a partner for either Papa Zito or Charlatan was either VP Baltar or Albert B. Rampage. Them didn't seem that likely to be scum together so if there was one more that would have left Ojanen by default. Troll planned to get into that more when it mattered but when the game ended there was no sense giving the scum more information about who to night kill anyhow. If Papa Zito was scum then Troll would have pushed for a no lynch with no extra talking the next day. If Papa Zito was town then Troll would have been with the others lynching Charlatan despite minor worries that the claim no made sense if it no lead to an immediate scum win.

Troll could probably come up with more to say but Troll will stop there. Troll did enjoy playing with everyone and hopes to see all about.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

Ah, yes, for those who no knew how this game came about, Troll simply started by seeing if those who had received nominations for outstanding new player this year were interested in having a game together. Then them invited other players who were also new as of this year of their choice until we had a full game. Troll passed on a list of those who got mentioned but not invited as well as a couple other new players others to BigBear as potential replacements at the start. BigBear was chosen to mod as him was the first convenient mod to come up in the normal mini queue whose game was designed for 12 players. Troll asked Vi and Yosarian2 to review the setup somewhat arbitrarily as Troll thinks that them both have excellent understandings of game balance and them have both done good modding in the past that Troll has seen.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

Oh, and for those scum who were trying to figure out whether Troll was acting as Troll acts as a power role when town it be a bit hard to say really. Troll now has 14 completed games as town. Of those Troll has been a vanilla townie in 14 of them.

In Troll's completed scum games Troll has had non-goon roles 3 times out of 6 so perhaps that be where to look?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

Troll really can't take that much credit for the idea. The basic premise (arranging the players for a game ahead of time in some mutually agreeable fashion) was something Troll had seen done by Adel and Ectomancer in the past (it might not have originated with them but them be the source of the idea that Troll knows of.) The newbie part of it just came from Troll seeing a number of quality people being nominated for the scummy for outstanding new player and thinking that Troll would like to play a game with them. It also because Troll still be slightly disappointed that Troll never got nominated for that particular scummy this year and so Troll figured Troll could show you all up by getting a serial killer role and taking all of those who did out as petty revenge in this game. That last bit clearly got thwarted when Troll no was a serial killer. Revenge will have to wait till later it seems. Poor Troll.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

Happily Troll no typically has that many student essays to read through as Troll no assigns many essays for the students to write as Troll teaches math. Next quarter should be much calmer than this one was but Troll could probably use some down time anyhow. Troll knows that Troll has told Head_Honcho that Troll will be in for his open game (Troll no knows the setup but him looks to be up next in the queue) which probably be the only game Troll plans to join for the next little bit. If others wanted to join that it could be fun (it be early enough that a particular open game could probably be lobbied for with farside22 if there be one people like (Troll has Albert B. Rampage in mind here in particular as there be at least one setup him be fond of that them run.)) Otherwise Troll will probably offer to replace in later on in whatever game you be looking to make happen. Troll usually prefers replacing in later in a game anyhow as it lets Troll start with some information and gives Troll a chance to generally play better for Troll's entire time in the game.

TL;DR: everyone should just join Troll in Head_Honcho's open game which should be coming up next in the queue.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

Friend and enemies probably be the more appealing of those two to Troll. For the other Troll expects to be town and at various points in the game have others to fail to accept that Troll has come up with a good plan for using the potential interactions as them no be particularly simple and there could be some slightly counter intuitive ways to go. Troll would expect to be irritated when that happened. Friends and enemies no allows for the crazy night actions; Troll prefers that in a setup often.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh