Mafia 104 - Revenge of the Crimson King - Game!

[Cyberbob]

Vote: Socrates

I'm still a little raw from our last game together. *shakes fist*

[Cyberbob]

Man, you guys take the RVS way further than anything I've seen before.

[Cyberbob]

Man, you guys take the RVS way further than anything I've seen before.

... And there's the first slip of the game.

Unvote: Riceballtail, Vote: Cyberbob

hrmery hrmery doo

[Cyberbob]

It's pretty obvious what Tar is referring to. People are RVSing it up, and usually the person that tries to show themselves as serious and waiting for RVS to be up is very likely to be scum.

Ahahahahahahahno. Trying to get people out of the RVS is protown, especially given the rather short deadline in this specific game. Nice try though!

[Cyberbob]

facepalm.gif

[Cyberbob]

Gah. Sorry about the lackluster posting thus far (especially now that we seem to have come out of the RVS); you guys posted a lot while I was asleep.

I fail to see how this post constitutes "trying to get people out of the random stage":

Yet it did in fact do just that, did it not?

In other news: Wicked, swimmer and MonkeyMan are all looking pretty terrible ATM. I'm not seeing scum in Monkey, though; his efforts (although riddled with poor rationales for his tells) appear genuine to me.

Wicked and swimmer, on the other hand, are just plain bad. I'm leaning towards swimmer on this one largely because of this post:

Also just want to make an additional comment. With as much attention and flak I'm getting for pointing out something I have found scummy, I'm pretty sure I hit gold. I doubt I'll be changing my vote for awhile.

Did you perhaps consider that you're getting flak because your read on Ray is just flatout bad? You've got a serious self-fulfilling prophecy going on here, my friend. I'd bet a lot of money that if you'd been ignored you'd be going on about "omg scum coverup I'M ONTO SOMETHING HERE" instead.

Unvote, Vote: swimmer4lyfe

By the way: I did take part in the RVS, you lying sod. peace

[Cyberbob]

Do you really think some kind of in depth analysis is going to come from day 1? I have a personal scumtell that I saw in you and Ray and it has served me well in the past. How is this incredibly scummy? You don't pick out what's wrong with my argument, you don't try to reason why it's bad...you just blanket my entire case with "it's bad"

- What is this "personal scumtell", exactly, and how is it applicable to both myself and Ray? I mean inductive logic is terrible at the best of times, but you're taking it one step further here.
- The reasons for your case being bad have already been covered. I don't feel like repeating what other people have said on the very same page.

And on top of that, you're putting words in my mouth.

How am I putting words in your mouth?

Yes, you are definitely scum

Lol ok

[Cyberbob]

Christ. You guys pretty much could not have picked a stupider thing to argue about.

MonkeyMan: you aren't being as sharp and incisive as you think you are.

Ray: Just stop.

[Cyberbob]

Putting pressure on people gets reactions, and that was my ultimate goal.

Yeah, nah. Obvious attempt at a retcon detected.

[Cyberbob]

No, it's not scummy to defend yourself. It is scummy to say "this is how I roll, just deal with it" when that "way that he rolls" is scummy.

That doesn't make any sense. "The way that he rolls" is to defend himself when attacked. You just called that both not-scummy and scummy in the same post.

Unvote, Vote: Swimmer

telling people that your town play is scummy is not a defense. It's a weak excuse to behave scummily.

Except Ray's defence wasn't scummy, hope this helps you with your case

[Cyberbob]

Merkabah, do you think you could maybe cut down on the word count? It's kind of hard to comprehend (much less give an adequate response to) such massive textwalls. If this is what you're capable of on Page 9 I shudder to think of what monstrosities you'll be concocting later on.

It's actually rather anti-town play to be making posts that are so rambling and (to be frank) incoherent. This also goes for certain other people (looking at Exalt and Wicked) who have been displaying a rather inordinate fondness for splitting posts into massive numbers of quotes; stop that.

As far as other things go:

- We should lynch swimmer.
- Merkabah's defence of swimmer is a poor one; I especially like the part where he tries to deny that he's defending her
- I do kind of agree

in principle

with the idea of being hesitant to get on a wagon with people whom you think are scum. I just don't think that he's taking into account the possibility of a bus (which given swimmer's pretty terrible play is a definite chance IMO).
- MonkeyMan's defence of his RVS play has been a tad incoherent.
- Not really seeing the reasons behind the suspicion of Exalt.
- I like RECKONER's Post 178;

FOS: Pads

etc. Also please stop using those dumb neologisms; thinking specifically of things like "misrep" and "wincon" here.

[Cyberbob]

EBWOP:

We should lynch swimmer.

[Cyberbob]

Oh, so now you

are

(and were) defending swimmer? Why were you lying about this before?

[Cyberbob]

Cyberbob, how is it a lie?

Based on what really? The arguments made thus far haven't been very coherent, imo. Give me a bullet list of why swimmer is heads and tails a better lynch than everyone else thus far.

...

While I think Amished did defend swimmer a bit by calling him town (which I personally am not as certain of), the attacks simply are weaksauce from what I have seen. We're not going to buy into a lynch simply because it's popular, especially when our top two scum reads (MM and Exalt) are on it.

...

It's a possibility, but I think they are both on a bit early for me to really believe that is what is happening. Also, please look at both of their reasons for getting on. They are horrible. Could be a bus, but I'd rather lynch the person making the badly reasoned vote than the person who is being badly voted and stands on outside chance of being bussed.

These three paragraphs are some pretty hardcore defence. You're trying to worm your way out of your initial attempts to lie about it by playing these little semantic games, but it's pretty clear what you were/are doing.

As far as your question goes, my reasons for voting swimmer were outlined perfectly well in the post wherein I voted for her. I suggest you read it.

[Cyberbob]

So, you are voting him because his case on ray is bad and he's pouting about it not getting attention?

Not a lynchable offense in my book. Other than that, you just call him "pretty terrible" in that post, which couldn't be more vague if you wanted it to.

I disagree. (heh, owned)

Feel free to give me that bullet list when you are ready.

I'll make you a deal: you drop the act about not defending swimmer and I'll write up the list.

It's not a defense so much as it is pointing out how weak the wagon is. If you can explain it better, please proceed. I'm a reasonable person and if you bring a good case I might change my mind. As it is, I don't see any valid reason to have our vote there as opposed to MM or Exalt, who have acted genuinely scummy.

It's 4 in the morning here so you'll have to forgive me for not doing it right now, but I'll try and make some time for it tomorrow (I've got a decently heavy-ish workload over the next two or three days).

[Cyberbob]

My thoughts on this are that you should

both

shut the fuck up.

[Cyberbob]

exalt you need to go back to grade school you dyslexic moron instead of banging on the keyboard with your baby rattle

Mod: Requesting that swimmer4lyfe be replaced.

[Cyberbob]

I don't see anything wrong with Glork's vote? Kise was being pretty fishy (both literally and metaphorically); I certainly wouldn't be upset with a wagon on him.

Hm. Yes, I think I will.

Unvote, Vote: Kise

Still majorly suspicious of swimmer, and I've still got my eye on Pads for that little gimme post of his in relation to MonkeyMan.

[Cyberbob]

Actually, more so Cyberbob. He posted after me, but waited until someone else (you, Glork) called me out on lining up lynches.

That was because before Glork singled that specific comment of yours out I had dismissed the post as being white noise in the middle of the height of the whole Merk/Exalt thing.

[Cyberbob]

Uh, sure. Whatever you say.

Anywho, I realise I've been a bit fractured in my arguments thus far. I probably should have taken V/LA leave, but I'm dumb so I didn't. I have an essay due on Monday and an exam on Tuesday, and given that this is pretty much the crunchiest of crunch times I will be V/LA until Tuesday afternoon - at which time I will have the time to post as consistently as I would like to.

(I'll be writing a fair bit in my efforts to catch up, but I'll try to keep it readable)

[Cyberbob]

EBWOP: Got ninja'd by Merk. That first sentence is directed at Glork.

[Cyberbob]

Right, I'm back (had my last exam this morning). I'll give the last two or three pages a good read and post another dot-point list of things and stuff.

Will also get to work on figuring out why there are quite so many people suspicious of me, unless someone would be so kind as to give me a quick summary.

[Cyberbob]

You're scum.

...Yeah, when I said "quick" I really meant "succinctly informative". You achieved the former but not the latter.

[Cyberbob]

Anywho, here are my thoughts starting from the bottom of Page 12/top of Page 13.

- Post 300 kinda looks like Kise trying to slip in a sneaky little "opportunism" attack on me. I'll admit to only being alerted to the post I voted him for by Glork, but prior to today I really truly haven't been paying as much attention to the game as I really needed to be if I wanted to stay focused. Mea culpa, but I won't apologise for it - I did as well as I could given that it was in the middle of my exam period.
- Post 307 is a good post with regards to the "replacements > policy lynch" deal - at least in this situation. I do support policy lynches for certain other things.
- Post 315 from SolemnJ seems like a pretty lazy vote. He's basically taken everything people have been saying about MonkeyMan, condensed it into a few words, offered up nothing of his own, and stuck a vote in at the end.
- To be honest I don't really follow Pads' attack on me in Post 353. Scum don't always buddy up to their partners - in fact I would say they're almost more likely to buddy up to

town

players. He throws in a few iterations of the "oh that's

just

X enough to be inconspicuous - scum?????" attack, which really only strikes me as confirmation bias.
- WTF @ Monkey's roleclaim?
- Re: Wicked's question in Post 369: I was half-kidding. I was (and still am) always going to go into proper detail about my swimmer vote even if Merk didn't recant, I was just looking to get a little snark in.

I'll end this post with the scum reads requested by Socrates:

Right now I'm still liking my Kise vote. I don't think his counterattack is at all genuine; I think he's slipping in a bit of the old OMGUS. Apart from that, I'd say SolemnJ would be second in line and after that probably Raivann for not even being able to recognise the fact that Swimmer got replaced.

MonkeyMan could be up there too, but he hasn't really posted all that much in the pages included in today's read apart from that awful claim. I'll do some more reading tomorrow morning.

[Cyberbob]

I'm pretty sure I informed you of the exact reason you're being voted. I see no further reason to elaborate.

...Right. Well, I'll have a quick look at your posts now and see if I can find it.

[Cyberbob]

Right, so that's done.

This is the first time you mentioned me:

Cyberbob is on my short list ot die, yes.

Then this:

Cyberbob is still slimy and probably has cooties.

Then your vote:

Vote: Cyberbob

, though Empking is an excellent alternative.

Then this:

I can do it in two words.



You're scum.

And finally (at the time of this post) this:

I'm pretty sure I informed you of the exact reason you're being voted. I see no further reason to elaborate.

So unless I've missed something, no. You haven't informed me of the exact reason I'm being voted.

[Cyberbob]

Oh, OK.

[Cyberbob]

What's so awful about my claim? What am I supposed to say about it? It's a role. It's not a theme game so I don't have any flavor to back it up with.

I'm not talking about the actual wording of the claim itself or whatever; it's more the fact that it came pretty much straight out of the blue with so few votes on you. Claiming so early - particularly if you have a power-role - can be really anti-town because in the end you might not have had to (any extra information helps scum, etc etc).

[Cyberbob]

While I agree that scum have been known to do that, do you agree that it is far more likely in a case where the townie is a scum hunting powerhouse rather than the highly suspected Day 1 punching bag that MonkeyMan has been?

Maybe

. There is something to be said IMO for the credibility to be gained in the case of the "highly suspected Day 1 punching bag"'s lynch; you can point to your actions and say "well you can't accuse

me

of hopping on an easy wagon!", or something to that effect.

I would love to hear one realistic scenario in which a scum would slip a wagonned player an easy out and that player is not on his scum team, because I can think of none. Last I checked, scum liked mislynches.

"Giving an easy out" is still essentially buddying, no matter how much you try to make it somehow unique and special. In any case, MonkeyMan is by no means the only lynch option for today; smart scum wouldn't just jump on every town scumtell they see, they'd defend a few and attack others to make themselves look less opportunistic.

Without such a scenario, I must continue to assume that you have joined an attack under the guise of believing me to be MonkeyMan's buddy, in spite of the fact that your other posts don't suspect MonkeyMan as scum at all. I find such an attack scummy, since it's coming to whatever conclusion you want to, regardless of other information. Hence, my suspicion of you.

OK.

[Cyberbob]

The vote for swimmer was for terribad reasons (only having a self-fulfilling prophecy) which does not equate to a scumtell at all. Voting for somebody over something that's not a scumtell in a non-random place = scum. Everyone vote for him and NAO!

/me holds down the fort

This head should post more often. It's far more humourously inept than VPB.

[Cyberbob]

loooool

That was Vaya's second post. I hope you guys are actually paying attention to some of these votes; I'd hate to see this go to waste.

[Cyberbob]

Morning has broken/like the first morning/blackbird has spoken/like the first bird~

[Cyberbob]

Why do you keep saying 5 days when the deadline's on the 30th? Is it a timezone thing?

[Cyberbob]

Yeah, I may be apathetic but I'm not actively stupid. Sorry.

[Cyberbob]

(*coughvayacough*).

A fair few more people than Vaya fall into this category.

[Cyberbob]

I'd say the only wimps here are the people who let a bandwagon scare them away from voting scum.

Three days til deadline, we need to work together to achieve a lynch. More Cyber votes.

I lol'd.

[Cyberbob]

Okay, I read the case on Cyberbob, and I don't find much fault with it. Cyberbob's reaction to it is something though. Complete apathy with no attempt to defend himself really. Cyberbob, if you are town, why not at least

attempt

a rebuttal?

I believe I have already offered up an explanation for some of my actions that are relevant to the case (thinking specifically of my suspicion of Kise but not MonkeyMan here).

All of the other stuff is true; I've been playing really really badly and despite my best efforts haven't been able to produce very much good content. I was distracted by exams, and wasn't able to follow what was going on as well as I needed to to be able to follow any sort of consistent path of reasoning. By the time exams had finished everybody's suspicions were pretty much ironclad and there wasn't really anything I could say or do that would get people off my back.

[Cyberbob]

By the time exams had finished everybody's suspicions were pretty much ironclad and there wasn't really anything I could say or do that would get people off my back.

Why so fatalistic?

Am I wrong?

[Cyberbob]

You're being kind of naive if you think the others are smart enough not to fall for the "any lynch before

THE DEADLINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

" trick.

[Cyberbob]

Since, MonkeyMan is lurking...

Unvote Vote: Cyberbob

for the points Merkabah, Pads, and I brought up. Also, if he's town it's not much of a loss.

bahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahshshfhdlsahfghsdfgl

[Cyberbob]

The awkward thing is, I still think Cyberbob is a reasonable lynch today.

You

still

haven't said why apart from bringing out your crusty-old-veteran-of-the-game-super-duper-awesome-scumhunter act.

[Cyberbob]

Also:

I said a few pages ago that this town was so scummy, I could barely take it. That wasn't a post made in jest.

This is part of the reason why I haven't been defending my lynch. Town seriously deserves to lose this one already.

[Cyberbob]

Also:

I said a few pages ago that this town was so scummy, I could barely take it. That wasn't a post made in jest.

This is part of the reason why I haven't been defending my lynch. Town seriously deserves to lose this one already.

I'm hurt...

I'm including myself in there, don't worry.

[Cyberbob]

Naw, I'm thinking more of people like Tarhalindur, Vaya, Devestation, Mufasa (

Mod: who has actually been banned and will require replacement

), WarWound, xRECKONERx, Snow_Bunny, Riceballtail, Socrates, Wickedestjr, Wysp, Kise, Glork, Empking, SolemnJ, Merkabah, MonkeyMan576, Cyberbob, Pads, Slicey Infinis and Raivann.

[Cyberbob]

OMG POST 515 IS TEH SECKS *hops on the wagon*

All of the other stuff is true; I've been playing really really badly and despite my best efforts haven't been able to produce very much good content. I was distracted by exams, and wasn't able to follow what was going on as well as I needed to to be able to follow any sort of consistent path of reasoning. By the time exams had finished everybody's suspicions were pretty much ironclad and there wasn't really anything I could say or do that would get people off my back.

So yeah. I was/am playing badly.

[Cyberbob]

you're still not as smart as you think you are though

[Cyberbob]

you're still not as smart as you think you are though

Pfft. It's not as though I claim to be perfect. Or even near-perfect. I think other people have unreasonable expectations of me, and/or assume that I have unreasonable expectations of myself.

It's more the fact you're taking literally everything that could conceivably have a scummy motive behind it as such - and a few that couldn't besides. Your "analysis" of the RVS thing exemplifies this rather nicely.

[Cyberbob]

Also @Everyone - why have people been ignoring my posts?

Don't worry, if anyone has an ounce of intelligence that trend is soon to be broken given the following paragraph:

Vaya has only made three posts. None of them have been that helpful. However, having said that, I don't think Vaya would have come out of nowhere to jump on the most popular bandwagon if she was scum.

[Cyberbob]

Cyber is yet to defend himself. And that excuse of town deserving to lose is not good. Scummy++.

You really aren't too good at interpreting what people say on anything more than a superficial level. The town-deserving-to-lose thing isn't an "excuse", and it is by far the smaller part of the motivation behind my actions in any case.

[Cyberbob]

Vaya is literally the worst player in this game. This includes Mufasa who is currently indefinitely banned from the site.

[Cyberbob]

Hrmm... I am undecided on Bob, but my gut wants to call him genuinely apathetic town. Idono. His play could easily come from demoralized jupiter mafia, and if he is scum I bet he is from that group, but I just go uhg at the thought. I will at least give him a chance to start scumhunting. Plan on moving your vote or pushing a wagon anytime soon Cyberbob?

If I was to move my vote (I'm still pretty sure that Kise is scum) I'd move it to either Wickedestjr, Vaya or Snow_Bunny - for pretty obvious reasons. I need to sort out a) whether I will actually move my vote and b) if I will, which one of those three to move it to.

[Cyberbob]

Well, apparently I won't need time to decide who's scummiest after all. If there's one thing I've learned how to spot, it's a scum PBPA. Notice how Cyberbob summarizes what players are doing but doesn't draw any firm conclusions from it (i.e, whether they are town or scum)? That's CLASSIC scum behavior right there - it's outed more than one scumbag for me in the past.

Vote: Cyberbob

If I get lynched and flip town it won't be because your scumtell kind of sucks, amirite? It'll be because "he was legitimately scummy!!"

[Cyberbob]

I would be remiss if I did not. I would *MUCH* rather scrutinize everything and decide someone is protown later than ignore potential scumtells in a player's behavior. That's how I've always played, and it's worked for me in the past. I'm not about to change it for you or anyone else.

Inductive logic FTL

[Cyberbob]

I would be remiss if I did not. I would *MUCH* rather scrutinize everything and decide someone is protown later than ignore potential scumtells in a player's behavior. That's how I've always played, and it's worked for me in the past. I'm not about to change it for you or anyone else.

Inductive logic FTL

Huh? We're discussing an aspect of my playstyle. How does inductive logic have anything to do with that?

"It's worked for me in the past, therefore it will work for me in the future" is pretty much the very definition of inductive logic.

[Cyberbob]

Cyber, this might honestly be the stupidest thing I've ever heard in a mafia game ever. There's a reason that mafia strategies exist, and it's because they give players better odds of winning. To reduce my scrutiny of your play to "inductive reasoning" is to attack the use of strategies and playstyles regardless of their nature. If you want to continue this discussion, make a thread in Mafia Discussion after this game ends.

cool story bro

[Cyberbob]

Cyber, this might honestly be the stupidest thing I've ever heard in a mafia game ever. There's a reason that mafia strategies exist, and it's because they give players better odds of winning. To reduce my scrutiny of your play to "inductive reasoning" is to attack the use of strategies and playstyles regardless of their nature. If you want to continue this discussion, make a thread in Mafia Discussion after this game ends.

cool story bro

Vote Cyberbob

That was just totally useless in every possible way.

Glork himself recognised that that line of discussion is more suited for Mafia Discussion than this game thread; I refer you to the last sentence of the paragraph.

I've just about run out of different ways to say "you think you're smarter than you actually are".

[Cyberbob]

Why?

Because it's one of the most god-awful things I've ever seen. "It's too scummy to be scummy!!!" is not good in any way shape or form and you should be drawing a lot more suspicion than you currently are.

It is anti-town for her to do that, but I'm not bothered by it.

lol

[Cyberbob]

On the other hand... *reads Cyberbob as scum in Commie Mafia more carefully*... while Cyberbob wasn't as emotional there as he is here, dear gods his summary posts there are JUST like his ones here. (Including one very early this game where my first read was a town PBPA. Oops.)

Whoops, guess that means I have a fairly consistent style of writing PBPAs..............

Seriously. Watching you guys run around feeling so happy with your AWESOMELY SWEET READS is actually pretty funny.

[Cyberbob]

If I get lynched and flip town it won't be because your scumtell kind of sucks, amirite? It'll be because "he was legitimately scummy!!"

[Cyberbob]

It's her fault for wearing skanky clothing...!

[Cyberbob]

I've used that argument before

This is not a valid argument, sorry. There's a reason we call certain actions "scummy". Would you like for me to spell it out for you?

Cyberbob, if you find the town isn't playing well, why don't you actually help? If you don't want to win/play, then ask for a replacement.

Who said I'm not playing to win? I certainly think that my wagon has a number of scum on it and my cardflip will aid in their eventual deaths. It's pretty much the only valid tool I have left that anyone will actually pay attention to.

[Cyberbob]

I'm a vanilla townie.

My thoughts on people:

• 1.
  Tarhalindur
  - Town who thinks he's playing better than he is.
  2.
  Vaya
  - Either really bad scum or really bad town. I'm thinking scum.
  3.
  Devestation
  - Bandwagoner.
  4.
  SensFan
  - Just replaced in; no read.
  5.
  WarWound
  - Has posted twice in the whole damn game, both on the 18th of November.
  6.
  xRECKONERx
  - Eh. Town.
  7.
  Snow_Bunny
  - Scummy.
  8.
  Riceballtail
  - No read; don't like his bandwagoning but half the game's doing it and he's not the worst of them.
  9.
  Socrates
  - I'd say town, but I've seen scum denouncing wagons that are obviously going to result in a lynch in order to say "I told you so" the next day so.
  10.
  Wickedestjr
  - Scum.
  12.
  muh316
  - Scum; is in swimmer's player slot.
  13.
  Kise
  - Scum.
  14.
  Glork
  - Scummy. Could be stupid town though I guess?
  15.
  Empking
  - Has posted 5 times in the whole game, none of which were longer than one line.
  16.
  RayFrost
  - Town read.
  17.
  SolemnJ
  - Has posted 7 times, requested replacement here.
  18.
  Merkabah
  - Eh, probably stupid town.
  19.
  MonkeyMan576
  - Bandwagoner.
  20.
  Cyberbob
  - Me.
  21.
  Pads
  - Scummy.
  22.
  Slicey
  - Has posted twice in the whole game, the last one being on the 23rd of November.
  23.
  Raivann
  - Weak town read.

I really don't envy the town players. Half the player list is either lurking hardcore, stupid or actively scummy.

[Cyberbob]

Wysp got replaced by muh, Socrates.

[Cyberbob]

Any more flavour on that claim, Cyber?

What, flavour on a vanilla townie claim?

The exact name of my role is Town Villager, if that helps.

[Cyberbob]

Any more flavour on that claim, Cyber?

Thanks for claiming scum!

HoS:Dev

You think he's scum yet you only give him a HoS?

Deadline's on the 7th, today is the 2nd. That's plenty of time to get a wagon going on him if you actually think he "claimed scum".

[Cyberbob]

How do you know nobody will pay attention to anything else you say? If you actually do flip town, then we know anything you said won't be biased because of your allignment.

Yeah, I'm pretty clearly talking about events prior to my hypothetical lynch there.

Cyberbob, are Merkabah, Glork, and Pads scummy or stupid town because they voted you?

Merk is also stupid for so thoroughly throwing the game off with that argument with Exalt, yes for Glork and yes for Pads (keep in mind that I'm focusing more on the

manner

in which people voted for me rather than the vote itself)

Cyberbob never answered my question, so I'm keeping my vote on him.

This is also a pretty dumb post; basically it's a petulant cry for attention that is being expressed in a mafia-related manner. I'm sorry that I missed answering your question, MonkeyMan; would you like to point it out for me that I can do so now?

[Cyberbob]

I'm pretty sure voting for someone isn't a "cry for attention".

When the vote is justified by "HE DIDNT ANSWER MY QUESTION OMGGG!!!!", yeah. It kinda is.

So your argument is anyone who has a scum read on you is either not town or playing anti-town?

Given that I know my alignment to be town, yeah. It is.

I can understand why people would be suspicious of me given my rather sketchy posting towards the beginning, but a) I did provide a reason for this and b) I find it difficult to believe that so many people literally find me the scummiest person in the game right now with so much lurking and obvious shitty bandwagoning going on. Hell, some of you are actually falling for the rather obvious DeAdLINe oMG!!1!!1 rationale.

[Cyberbob]

If you asked a question to someone you wouldn't want them to answer it? And that was hardly the only justification for my vote. Admittadly, the case against you isn't what I'd call strong, but a no lynch is certainly not preferable at this point, and you seem the scummiest to me.

Nice false dichotomy. There are lots of players in this game besides me, and there are a number of days yet before the deadline.

Your over-defensive reactions don't suggest a vanilla townie about to be lynched, they suggest scum about to be lynched. In your own analysis, you don't list bandwagoning bad enough to be scummy, so why would other players vote for a lurker or bandwagoner over someone that they actually find to be acting scummy in their posting?

Have you considered signing up for some more newbie games? Just saying.

[Cyberbob]

Sure, but they aren't as scummy as you, so it's not a false dichotomy.

Incorrect.

Way to not answer my question. Again.

Nah, I was just being a bit oblique about how I answered it. Lurking and bandwagoning is every bit as "actively" scummy as whatever the hell it is I'm accused of doing (

I did give an explanation for my sketchiness in the early game, by the way

).

[Cyberbob]

I could live with a Snow Bunny wagon, especially given just how many of you idiots are falling for that deadline hysteria.

Unvote, Vote: Snow_Bunny

[Cyberbob]

Oh hey Glork, still into the mystic-veteran-of-mafia-never-gives-away-his-secrets deal?

[Cyberbob]

No. I just think you're likely enough to be scum that you need to be lynched today.

I'm sure you won't have any problems with giving some reasoning of your own that can be analysed by others in later days then.

[Cyberbob]

Does "I don't buy your excuse for your scumminess" work? I honestly have nothing else to say about it. I'm not being cryptic or deceptive or "mystic" as you put it. I just think there's a 75-80% chance that you're scum, which is plenty for me to lynch on D1.

There. I explained.

You haven't actually said anything about why you think I'm scummy in the first place, so no. You haven't "explained", and if I was anyone else in this game (except scum) I'd be pressuring you and everyone else who has basically said jack squat about your reasons for hopping on the wagon to cough up the goods.

[Cyberbob]

90% of that is crap made up out of thin air and confirmation bias. I was

hoping

to try and get something with an ounce of actual thought out of you this time around, but alas - it seems that is not going to happen.

[Cyberbob]

First of all, what's "confirmation bias"? I don't think I've ever heard that term before.

I'll let Wikipedia handle this one, as I'm coming up on 24 hours without sleep:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

Confirmation bias (or myside bias) is a tendency for people to confirm their preconceptions or hypotheses, independently of whether or not they are true. People can reinforce their existing attitudes by selectively collecting new evidence, by interpreting evidence in a biased way or by selectively recalling information from memory.

Secondly, how is "your behavioral patterns indicate that you are scum who was jumping onto convenient wagons" made up out of thin air? Do you deny that you joined the MM wagon, then joined the Swimmer wagon, then continued to push Swimmer, then followed me onto Kise as the Swimmer wagon lost momentum?

You can throw a mountain of words at me, but it doesn't change that your behavior has been demonstrably scummy. Since people actually brought points against you, you've acted huffy and irritated. You have resorted to insulting the town, rhetoric such as "deadline hysteria," and you did the bare minimum as far as giving out your suspicions of each player.

Why do you call "deadline hysteria" rhetoric when that's exactly what it is? People forget (or choose to ignore) the fact that 4 or 5 days is a lot longer than it may seem at first glance.

Shameless and repeated bandwagoning, appeal to emotion in lieu of actual defense, and insluting and uncooperative behavior. How is this *NOT* scummy?

I don't think you, or anyone else in this game, is in any position to be using bandwagoning as a reason. Just saying.

The appeal to emotion stuff is quite literally all I've got. How can I possibly use logic to get across the point that university exams held the bulk of my attention span during the first few days of gameplay? Would you like me to post a screenshot of my exam timetable as evidence?

As for the insulting and uncooperative behaviour, that's a null-tell. Don't tell me you've never seen town players indulging themselves in a little verbal fencing before.

[Cyberbob]

wut?

That was a mistake on my part with the quote tags. I'll answer the paragraph now:

Secondly, how is "your behavioral patterns indicate that you are scum who was jumping onto convenient wagons" made up out of thin air? Do you deny that you joined the MM wagon, then joined the Swimmer wagon, then continued to push Swimmer, then followed me onto Kise as the Swimmer wagon lost momentum?

No, I don't deny doing that stuff. What I do deny is that it was done simply because it was "convenient".

[Cyberbob]

Ok, just read the last 8 pages and I'm fully caught up now. Cyberbob still needs a major lynching.

If he flips scum, xRx needs to immediately afterward.

Reck seems to be coming up with any excuse he can to get off the wagon even though

See, now it's this kind of thing that you guys should be latching onto as well. VPB is pretty blatantly trying to set up a double lynch - I would say that he thinks I'm part of a different scum group than him and that xRECKONERx is my buddy in the same group.

I'm predicting one of two things here: either the only person to respond to this particular post will be VPB with a predictable NO U-type denial, or someone else will come up with some stupid "oh yes I see.... DIE CYBERSCUM" post.

[Cyberbob]

But, but, that doesn't make SENSE. If he thinks Rec is your buddy, then he genuinely thinks that both you and REC are scum and actually believes what he is saying are valid tells. Weak.

Another (more likely IMO) possibility I forgot to mention before is that he doesn't actually think we're buddies, but is just going for a cheap Day 2 lynch if I flip scum. I mean, it's a moot point because I won't - but still.

Basically my point is trying to set up easy lynch combos is anti-town play whether you're town or scum. "i dont think X player is scum therefore I wont ever criticise anything they do evar!!!" doesn't make for a very successful town.

[Cyberbob]

CC? o_O

These acronyms and contractions are getting a bit ridiculous.

[Cyberbob]

Ah.

Riceball, your example is in no way analagous to anything relevant to this situation, sorry.

[Cyberbob]

Cyberbob's the lynch, town or scum.

lmao

[Cyberbob]

Just gonna quote that one more time:

Cyberbob's the lynch,

town or scum.

[Cyberbob]

You're not very smart.

[Cyberbob]

I didn't call you a name though - I described you, but I didn't call you a name.

whupz

[Cyberbob]

I'm sorry that you're unable to receive my generous advice in the spirit in which it was given.

[Cyberbob]

Insulting anyone who thinks you're scum is not pro-town play. Supporting the lynch here.

I agree - it is a nice excuse for scum to hop on the wagon, isn't it?

[Cyberbob]

Cyberbob never answered my question, so I'm keeping my vote on him.

You are very hypocritical.

Cyberbob, what was so scummy about the manner people voted you?

You answered a part of it above already.

Other notables include Pads' "town or scum" comment, Riceballtail's bad logic and who could forget Vaya's second-post-of-the-game?

(there are others, I'm just going off the top of my head)

[Cyberbob]

he has claimed vanilla which are both good reasons to lynch him.

run this one past me again?

[Cyberbob]

Wicked I honestly don't think you could possibly buddy Muh harder if you tried.

[Cyberbob]

Vote: Cyberbob

Combination of factors, too many to list right now, given I've been up since 5. But I've now fully read the thread, and its clear that he's today's lynch. I should be able to find time and explain who I agree with and such sometime this weekend, but Cyber is the clear lynch.

clearly I am the clear lynch, I mean it's just soclear,

[Cyberbob]

Sorry, had an unannounced event interrupt my time somewhat.

Whether or not Cyberbob made a power role claim to pull out counterclaims or not is WIFOM. Whether or not the general uncommonness of the role in question makes him innocent or not is also a WIFOM. I would drop the roleclaim as credible evidence for the argument either way at this point.

Wait, where the hell did this idea come from? I claimed vanilla town and have never claimed anything

but

vanilla town.

[Cyberbob]

Cyberbob

: If I get into trouble, I'm going to claim a powerrole and try to out someone.

That's two people now who have blatantly not read the game.

Merkabah, and Wickedestjr.

[Cyberbob]

Actually make that three and toss in Devestation.

[Cyberbob]

The lesson, bobby boy, is never change your scum strategy midstream unless you are confident that the players on your team can keep up.

Ahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahhahahahhdhqdfljhasdkjlhasvkjldshvkjlashvkjhsvh;vhasdk;cvjnsd

[Cyberbob]

Wanna see your reaction to my cardflip so bad. Particularly in light of your last post.

[Cyberbob]

I'm trying to wrap my head around this. It only seems to make sense if you and VPB are part of the same scum group and VPB doesn't know it.

...That makes literally zero sense. Assuming Merk is scum for a second, it goes like this:

- Cyberbob does thing, is attacked for thing
- Reckoner defends (or at least does not entirely buy into) thing
- Merk sees Cyberbob and Reckoner as scumbuddies on the other scumgroup, pushes for Cyberbob's lynch even harder while setting the stage for a nice and easy lynch of Reckoner on Day 2 if his suspicions are right

His suspicions of me aren't actually right, so he shouldn't get his nice little quicklynch of Reckoner tomorrow, but that doesn't change the fact that it's pretty antitown and is something scum do surprisingly often.

Cyber, for a while there it looked like you had given up but now (Around the 3rd of Dec as I read) you're fighting back. I don't know what you're trying to do but at least you're doing something.

I'm being a bit more active in setting the stage for some serious suspicion later on with all this ridiculously blatant scumshit going on while having some fun at a few of the clumsier ones at the same time.

I'm looking forward to seeing which way you flip, because reguardless I think the actual result will at least make people nervous and that's a good result for a day 1 lynch. (Or we get a scum )

It'll be vanilla town. I certainly hope it makes people nervous, but somewhat depressingly I can see most of them getting away with it.