Mini 891 - British Comedy Mafia (Game Over)

[Fuzzyman]

How are you gentlemen?

Vote: No Lynch

[Fuzzyman]

Seeing as we now have non-random votes, the purpose of mine has been served.

Unvote

[Fuzzyman]

It has created nonrandom discussion. Also, since this is the first time I've tried to break the meta of excluding no-lynch votes from random voting stages, I am advancing mafia theory, which is in general a pro-town thing to do, I believe.

[Fuzzyman]

Would you say that's the case moreso than when voting for a person?

I can't say I'm a big supporter of the Josh wagon; fun things (scumminess) and games (anti-townness) can be different things, but it doesn't mean that there can't be things like football (voting no-lynch), which is both a game and fun (both scummy and anti-town, depending upon opinion).

[Fuzzyman]

Am I missing the meaning of (!=)? It means, " is not equal to," right?

[Fuzzyman]

Actually, the mod created and locked the thread with placeholder posts at first. The thread was opened on the 4^th.

I'm not a fan of avoiding things simply because I'm bad at them. Scum do that to avoid tripping up.

Vote: Josh Lyman

.

[Fuzzyman]

Whatever. I guess I not only suck at theory, I just suck at Mafia.

Lynch me, whatever. I'll be back in a day or so.

In my experience, this attitude is a scumtell.

[Fuzzyman]

Had a bad LA. Rereading right now.

[Fuzzyman]

unvote, vote Fuzzy

for such a weak attempt at pushing a bandwagon on yourself .

Did you vote me because I was supposedly doing that, or becuase I was supposedly doing that "weakly"?

--

JL, do you have the ability to do that to yourself?

--

Budja, how is Snow Bunny's case WIFOMy?

[Fuzzyman]

Yeah, he hasn't really shown himself as a scumhunter yet.

Any reason we still have that random vote, Jason?

[Fuzzyman]

More Budja votes, please.

Do you want more votes, or do you already think of Budja as lynch-worthy?

Either way, I'd really like to question him as to how other people voting is "encouraging" to him.

[Fuzzyman]

The first point shouldn't matter to a townie and the second doesn't apply at L-5. In other words,

wrong answers

.

Unvote

Vote: Budja

[Fuzzyman]

I disagree.

- A second vote is a lot more pressure than a single vote IMO. I don't see how you can think otherwise.
- Having people agree with my line of thought makes me more certain.

- This is true, but the

overall

little amount of pressure created at L-5 shouldn't be enough to push you one way or another in your decision where to place your vote.

- In other words bandwagon thinking. Which is scummy.

Who are the second and third scummiest people, in your opinion?

[Fuzzyman]

Does the departure of Jason make it any more or less likely that he is scum? I should think not.

This, in addition to trying to stifle healthy Josh role discussion, earns you an

FoS

.

[Fuzzyman]

^ just lost quite a few town points.

You did too, by ignoring my inquiry on post 200.

There is a difference between healthy discussion and game-distracting, filler which has been solved ages ago.

Did you miss Josh's last post? It's still relevant. Besides, you've been partaking in this "filler" yourself quite a bit as well.

Can we just kill BC or a lurker now ? I have enough town-reads to want to slice off some deadweight.

Lynch-happy much?

[Fuzzyman]

^ just lost quite a few town points.

There is a difference between healthy discussion and game-distracting, filler which has been solved ages ago.

Can we just kill BC or a lurker now ? I have enough town-reads to want to slice off some deadweight.

Wait.... me?

Have you reason to believe he's talking sbout someone else? Yes, you.

[Fuzzyman]

Does the departure of Jason make it any more or less likely that he is scum? I should think not.

Vote: jasonT1981, a pressure vote to encourage him to do what he said he would

He's replacing out. Since my vote was aimed at getting more activity from him, the fact we'll have a (hopefully) more-active replacement means there's no need for my vote to stay on him.

Mkay. Definite miss by me.

[Fuzzyman]

I felt a bit behind, so I'll try to catch up as soon as possible.

Lack of Budja votes makes me sad. Let's see if someone has taken over his place.

I voted after your most recent request, if that's what you're asking.

[Fuzzyman]

Well, the difference between an unnightkillable doc and a treestumper is the fact that the doc is a passive role. However, there is an objective manifestation of the lumberjack role that Josh

cannot fake

. While he cannot be definitely cleared if that role is not used,

if it is used and a treestump is created, he is cleared.

BC beat me to the punch. Obviously if the role is used it is real, but as I was also going to say, there is the possibility that it's a scum PR.

I think that is where Chinaman's suspicion of you is coming from, you are very quick to clear Josh completely if the role part of the claim is true, you seem to be discounting the possibility of a scum PR.

Josh's ability couldn't help scum, though, and he'd have no incentive to use it.

I do, however, agree that a scum roleblocker against him is fairly likely.

[Fuzzyman]

Danakillsu is starting to look real bad.

[Fuzzyman]

China, if you were the mod and wanted to make the role that JL has claimed suitable for a town-aligned player, what would you do?

[Fuzzyman]

Net and Fuzz, why does Dana look really bad when I have basically been saying the same thing and I'm not being called out?

Granted, I have explained my thought process but other than that, what's the difference?

[Fuzzyman]

Whoops, didn't mean to submit that. But in response to the underlined part,

that's what's scummy about it

.

[Fuzzyman]

^ Well isn't that nice. Right past the deadline. Considering the holiday factor, you probably knew it was going to happen, as well. You're still the best lynch.

[Fuzzyman]

A Vote Count would be nice to have, as well.

[Fuzzyman]

At this rate, (JL) will be deadline lynched.

REDLIGHT REDLIGHT REDLIGHT

6) If no-one has a majority of votes at deadline no-one will be lynched.

[Fuzzyman]

I'm V/LA from the 26^th to the 29^th, unfortunately. I will make some big posts before then. Of course, it would be nice to just wrap up the Budja lynch before then.

[Fuzzyman]

What's your biggest beef with her? You haven't said anything leading up to that vote.

[Fuzzyman]

Yes I did. I said I disliked his entrance vote, called him out on opportunistic wagon jumping, and suggested he try scum-hunting, which I have seen no evidence of.

Blatan lie, but those are all good points.

EBWOP: Why does my vote worry you?

I get worried anytime somebody votes without saying why.

[Fuzzyman]

Netopalis was voting Budja before danakillsu made his "too much power" comment. He and dana have gone missing, though, so...

MOD: Could Netopalis and danakillsu be prodded?

[Fuzzyman]

EBWOP: Sorry, dan; been watching too much UFC.

[Fuzzyman]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's unequivocally good to let him get some last comments out.

[Fuzzyman]

Sounds like a player that's given up...I'm extremely tempted to go ahead and hammer, but I want to wait until I hear from some other players in re: BC's statements.

why are you specifically waiting for a response from me? And not Dana and Lock as well?

Because you're the one he's actually attacked, I would guess.

[Fuzzyman]

There are a whole schlew of scummy things he's doing with this claim, but rolefishing? Do explain.

[Fuzzyman]

He's already said that they are confirmed town to each other; my biggest objection is that he isn't claiming a partner.

[Fuzzyman]

Neto beat me to it.

Also, if China could please explain why his "time is pretty limited here", that would be good.

[Fuzzyman]

Sheesh, read my reasoning Death. I'd rather lynch scum today than die.
If that attitude is opportunistic, then yes I am but I disagree.

Now answer my question.

Where does the, "than die," part come from?

Everyone giving me bad looks right now really needs to read Neto's 438. Really a goldmine.

[Fuzzyman]

Yea dude, Net dies tomorrow.

This is not decided.

Fuzzy: You're going to need to elaborate more than that. What exactly about my post in 438 sets you off?

I really liked the way you articulated in the second to last paragraph.

[Fuzzyman]

Net has not answered Snowbunny and indeed it looks like both have a little OMGUS going on (though I don't care to look back to see who started it).

It was Snowbunny.

I guess I'd like to apologize for my absence; over the many deadline extensions we've had I've kinda kept thinking that we were really close to one and I need only make sure we don't get a no-lynch.

I do have a bit of a case; the player that I think has been most overlooked in this game is DeathSauce. Let's look at some of his slips over the game...

~ Iso Post 8 ~ One-liner votes for danakillsu without previous accusation of him.

~ Iso Post 9, 10, 11 ~ Goes 1984 on me when I note the above.

~ Iso Post 16 ~ Claims that not hammering is townish (certainly something scum would have us believe)

~ Iso Post 21 ~ Is a part of the BC wagon (though not voting for it), which is largely based on a grammar messup causing miscommunication

~ Iso Post 25 ~ Calls the quoted post scummy, but I really don't see it and I doubt others do; needs to explain.

~ Iso Post 0 ~ Admits to only skimming the thread (certainly not something town would find benefit in doing)

[Fuzzyman]

Also, I'd like to point out that Neto hasn't posted since yesterday, so he may not be a guaranteed vote-switch.

[Fuzzyman]

Right now, I prefer a Budja lynch to a BC lynch to a Josh to a Neto. I have fifteen internet minutes left tonight. Where should my vote be?

[Fuzzyman]

Since when is your "IMO" relevant?

Imma stay on you. I asked because I was concerned about whether I would be causing a no-lynch at the deadline I won't be able to be here for.

[Fuzzyman]

I apologize for my abscence; I had a perceived internet problem yesterday. I will have a big response post in the coming hours.

[Fuzzyman]

Fuzzyman

Post 13 really set off my gut. If you want to know why, a reason that includes 'pro-town' sets off my gut due to the way you formulated it. Add the word 'general' and it gets worse.
But can you elaborate on why you think advancing mafia theory is a pro-town thing to do?

In general, the advancement of mafia theory creates more ways for townies to optimize their play than for scum to optimize their play.

About post 162, I'd like to know what scumhunting you've done up until this point according to you.

Smooth strawmanning. I wasn't using his lack of scumhunting as a criticism upon him, I was using it as a reason for him not to stump himself.

Post 177 is joining the bandwagon for the sake of joining the popular bandwagon. Mostly his response to Budja's pressure vote reason is scummy as Budja is still voting a player he thoughts was scummy. The other reason Budja gave is basically the same as 'I think that multiple players are scummy, but this one has support from a different player, so vote'. And that is null.

You think that ''I think that multiple players are scummy, but this one has support from a different player, so vote'' is a null tell. I think it's a form of bandwagoning.

I have no idea what to think of post 227. In one way, FM argues that it's scummy from imaginality to drop his suspicions around Jason (Which weren't there as it was a lurker vote), but on the other hand discredits he imaginality for focusing elsewhere. No matter what imaginality does, FM isn't happy.

So you argue that keeping his Jason vote and not trying to stifle Josh role discussion are both necessary without the other? That doesn't make sense.

I never trust it when a player condems a V/LA (Post 310). It shows he's using everything he can get.

Yeah, I'm afraid you're correct, and I do seem to have tunneled quite a bit there.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Vote:Fuzzyman

Mostly for repeatedly calling me a liar about my vote on dana, even though I clearly posted my reasons in my iso post 2. In addition, Fuzzy's iso post 38 is a half-assed PBPA that is chock full of smarmy mischaracterizations of my posts.

Yeah, it's a little OMGUS, but Lynch All Liars is sound gameplay.

Hey, if you think LAL is good, then I'm sure you'll understand when I...

Vote: DeathSauce

.

You had said that you "disliked" dana's entrance. "dislike"=/="think it's scummy". Besides, dana has given her reason (if fairly weak) for her vote now. It would also be nice to see you actually tell the world how my attacks on you have been "mischaracterizing".

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

- Early no lynch vote that he claimed was for ‘advancing mafia theory’ (not even sure what that means but I don’t buy it), as the only purpose here would be to start a meaningful discussion. The unvote like 2 seconds later means there’s no chance of much coming out of this, and the fact he unvotes uner the slightest bit of pressure is to me scummy.

It's scummy to unvote when you're at that moment voting NL? I've not heard that one before. Also, you don't seem to be getting the idea of the NL vote. Things other than the vote itself could be examined leading to meaningful discussion. The reactions to the vote for instance, such as that I am examining this instant.

- Goes from saying he doesn’t like the Josh wagon as anti-town =/= scummy (Josh was doing what anti-town things as opposed to scummy things btw?) from jumping on it b/c Josh refuses to discuss mafia theory. Theory speculation can generally distract from scum-hunting in a game and ‘I’m not a fan of avoiding things simply because I’m bad at them- scum do that to avoid tripping up’ is a bs argument when it comes to theory as most people even as scum don’t lie about theory as they’ll be easily caught out.

Had Josh not avoided the subject, I feel that any simple misconceptions he may have had would have been easily distinguishable from lies.

- his iso 11 is wrong. Wrong answers is ironic since I don’t like his response. Not being alone in your thinking not mattering to a townie is flat out false, it always makes someone more confident if they’ve someone agreeing with them, to say town don’t think like this is false. And every vote adds pressure not matter L-111 or L-1.

My impression of Budja was that his opinion (and consequentially his vote) was being influenced by others' votes, which is bad and scummy. I still think this was the case.

- his Fos in 227 is absurd, either he’s not paying attention, or well he’s not paying attention. Imag’s reasons for his vote were clear, Jason had been lurking and he wanted more content, obviously the replacement would solve a lot of this thus the FOS makes no sense. And the Josh role discussion was becoming tedious in all honesty.

The tediousness of actions should not influence decisions on whether or not to do them, at least in mafia.

- other things of note seem a genuine lack of scum-hunting. He seemed happy to ride the budja wagon to completion but never really did much apart from that. General lack of scum-hunting etc.

I guess I reply with my DS case.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Post 462 really shows a serious case of getting the attention from him away to somebody else.
Though you also get second place. Snow_Bunny once again took a first place away. She tried to push the attention she was getting to two players, not one. Sorry FM.

Eh, I've gotta disagree with you in this case. No real use repeating what others have already said for the purpose of defending myself, you know what I mean?

Post 606 shows again the PBPA approach. If that's not scummy enough, adding the following definitly would be. Because this is a case according to him. Yet, when looking at post 611, DS is nowhere to be seen from the players FM mentioned he wouldn't mind seeing lynched.
Talking about post 611, it's interesting to see how he did know that players were talking about Neto being a possibility to switch to BC, yet didn't know if his vote would cause a possible no-lynch if he didn't switch (While he was on the biggest wagon).

Using the PBPA approach is a scumtell in and of itself now? :confused: I said "Budja>BC>Josh>Neto" because they were the ones in the votecount (and thus relevant in crunch-time), not because they were my top 4 scum picks.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This was just the stuff directed at me; I'll read over this day's posts again a couple of times in the morning.

[Fuzzyman]

Vote:Fuzzyman

Mostly for repeatedly calling me a liar about my vote on dana, even though I clearly posted my reasons in my iso post 2. In addition, Fuzzy's iso post 38 is a half-assed PBPA that is chock full of smarmy mischaracterizations of my posts.

Yeah, it's a little OMGUS, but Lynch All Liars is sound gameplay.

Hey, if you think LAL is good, then I'm sure you'll understand when I...

Vote: DeathSauce

.

You had said that you "disliked" dana's entrance. "dislike"=/="think it's scummy". Besides, dana has given her reason (if fairly weak) for her vote now. It would also be nice to see you actually tell the world how my attacks on you have been "mischaracterizing".

How do you know that "dislike" doesn't equal "think it's scummy"? Can you read my mind? Also, dana is no longer in the game, please pay attention.

In my experience, those two terms have had somewhat differing meanings. I don't feel that I implied dana was still here.

I really don't need to explain how your PBPA attack post was"mischaracterizing" (I put it in quotes because I'm pretty sure that isn't a word.) Anyone reading it can see you were reaching, but for your edification, let's take a look.

I do have a bit of a case; the player that I think has been most overlooked in this game is DeathSauce. Let's look at some of his slips over the game...

~ Iso Post 8 ~ One-liner votes for danakillsu without previous accusation of him.

False, see my iso post 2 which you commented on above. Do you now admit you were lying about this?

Of course not.

~ Iso Post 9, 10, 11 ~ Goes 1984 on me when I note the above.

I have no idea what "goes 1984" means, but you were repeatedly lying about my vote and it's reasons, just becuse you skimmed over a portion of one of my posts, even going so far as to call something I wrote a "blatant lie", did you not expect me to respond to that?

You tried to get me to believe (and still are trying) that you had made statements which you didn't. I sorta had trouble finding good words.

~ Iso Post 16 ~ Claims that not hammering is townish (certainly something scum would have us believe)

Mischaracterization. In some cases, a certain player choosing not to hammer can be seen as a pro-town action . In no way did I imply or infer or state that this is an absolute rule.

You didn't really say one way or the other. I guess you're okay for now on this, though.

~ Iso Post 21 ~ Is a part of the BC wagon (though not voting for it), which is largely based on a grammar messup causing miscommunication

Mischaracterization. I stated I would support a BC wagon. I didn't vote for BC because as soon as I said that, my two biggest scum targets jumped onto that wagon and I am hardly likely to follow their votes. Secondly, in what fucking way is a slip about having two scum in the game a "grammar messup"?

In the way that he was speaking in the same breath of a scenario in which one of the likely three scum was lynched, leaving two.

~ Iso Post 25 ~ Calls the quoted post scummy, but I really don't see it and I doubt others do; needs to explain.

You doubt others do, huh? again, your reading comprehension skills are showing. Read others reactions to what I wrote and see if your "doubt" continues.

Please don't make this personal. Also, I take it you refer to reactions such as this, this, and this?

~ Iso Post 0 ~ Admits to only skimming the thread (certainly not something town would find benefit in doing)

Total BS mischaracterization. I had JUST REPLACED into the thread! I posted to let everyone know I was here, not to provide you with an enormous in-depth analysis. This one ticks me off more than any other of your underhanded nonsense.

"I am reading" would have sufficed.

Congratulations, you have now forced me to post the longest damned post I have done on this site in years. I fucking hate long posts. Die scum!

Mastin is scum no more or less than others...

[Fuzzyman]

I guess we're waiting for replacements and people to decide between me and SB

[Fuzzyman]

Since people seem to think there's something up between me and kiku, I'll (figuratively) investigate him after the game.

[Fuzzyman]

I've not seen any questions, Neto.

[Fuzzyman]

@Fuzzy

In general, the advancement of mafia theory creates more ways for townies to optimize their play than for scum to optimize their play.

How? And how does a no-lynch random vote cause advancement of mafia theory?
Also, can't you discuss stuff like this at MD instead?

Voting NL randomly breaks the tradition of purposefully not doing so. Questioning tradition is advancing theory. The quoted post was in response to an inquiry as to how advancing mafia theory is protown.

I will create an MD thread about my starting of the game; I cannot do so now because this game is still going.

As for post 162, I saw it as reason for you keeping your vote on Josh. But as that is not the case, then what was?
Also, you may still answer the question though: 'About post 162, I'd like to know what scumhunting you've done up until this point according to you.'

Isn't calling someone out for not scumhunting scumhunting?

I have no reason what you're saying in your response to my comment about post 227. So I'll just repeat it again.
You didn't like how imaginality dropped his 'suspicions' of Jason, while it was just a lurker vote. On the other hand, you didn't like how he stiffled the Josh role discussion (And looking back at your posts, it was not like you were still discussing it. So why do you condemn him for it?) So in my opinion, you would have thought imaginality to be suspicious. Either he kept going with his Jason suspicions you thought he had, stiffling the Josh role discussion even further. Or he had stopped them, which was FoS worthy to you.

I guess that the root cause of this debacle is just my opinion that lurker votes are horrible, full stop. You are correct in that I would have though imaginality's actions to be scummy either way.

About my comment about post 462, your comment make it even worse. You state in that comment that there's no point in repeating what others have said to defend yourself. But post 438, the post you direct to in post 462, is about CM. So what defence are you talking about?

I never claimed that Neto was defending me in 438. I said that the ideas he expressed in his second to last paragraph in that post accurately expressed my feelings towards the first Mason claim.

PBPA is an easy way to make somebody look scummy. So yeah, they are scummy to me.

This is like calling someone scummy for owning a baseball bat with the reasoning that they might bash someone's head in with it. Just because PBPA can be used to manipulate doesn't mean that that's what I'm doing with it.

But anyway, thanks for stating that you saw who were in the vote count. This reinforces my statement about post 611. That you did know about the VC around deadline.

I really don't see where the whole 611 train of thought is going.

[Fuzzyman]

On page 15. Good grief, all that tree stump discussion makes me want to jump into a wood chipper.

Hey look at who's on fuzzy's wagon:
Fuzzyman (4): Faraday, DeathSauce, imaginality, Netopalis

This is a really,

really

good point in my defense.

[Fuzzyman]

On page 15. Good grief, all that tree stump discussion makes me want to jump into a wood chipper.

Hey look at who's on fuzzy's wagon:
Fuzzyman (4): Faraday, DeathSauce, imaginality, Netopalis

This is a really,

really

good point in my defense. I will continue to respond to posts, though, after school.

[Fuzzyman]

On page 15. Good grief, all that tree stump discussion makes me want to jump into a wood chipper.

Hey look at who's on fuzzy's wagon:
Fuzzyman (4): Faraday, DeathSauce, imaginality, Netopalis

This is a really,

really

good point in my defense. I will continue to respond to posts, though, after school.

[Fuzzyman]

C'mon, dude. You're voting for the player that 3 out of your 4 suspects are voting for.

[Fuzzyman]

Anybody got a vote count?

[Fuzzyman]

You claim to be unlynchable. What happens if you get the number of votes typically required for a lynch?

[Fuzzyman]

It's a reasonable question.

[Fuzzyman]

So you're like a reverse jester?

[Fuzzyman]

I have the hammer, I ask the questions.

After we hear from Imaginality, of course.

[Fuzzyman]

Well, it looks like we have all loose strings tied up, and Neto looks like he's giving up his act, so I'll throw the hammah.

=====[-]

Unvote: DeathSauce

Vote: Netopalis

[Fuzzyman]

Vote: DeathSauce

Pursuant to the earlier case on him, DGB's reasoning, and my knowledge that I am not scum.

[Fuzzyman]

It's probably a horrible idea for me to claim outside of L-1.

[Fuzzyman]

I am Patricia Routledge, a Beloved Princess. If I die, scum get an extra night phase.

[Fuzzyman]

Hahahha. Nice try.

Patricia Routledge isn't a comedian.

She's British, though. Nice try.

Is Keeping Up Appearances not considered a comedy anymore? Steptoe and Son? Hetty Wainthropp Investigates?

What kind of flavor do you want? A role PM quote?

[Fuzzyman]

My character in Keeping Up Appearances is a female who poses as a well-liked, wealthy socialite.

[Fuzzyman]

It makes sense that you would be reluctant to take the safer route of lynching DS, doesn't it.

[Fuzzyman]

From the wiki:

"Keeping Up Appearances is a British sitcom starring Patricia Routledge as eccentric, social-climbing snob Hyacinth Bucket (bou-quet)."

"Such excessive snobbery makes life difficult for those around her, especially long-suffering hen-pecked husband Richard (Clive Swift). Most people either dislike or are afraid of Hyacinth, to the point of running or hiding when seeing her or hearing her voice, exclaiming "The Bucket Woman!"."

Hardly the stuff of beloved princesses. Certainly not a "well-liked, wealthy socialite."

I said, "poses as," not, "is". The latter would certainly be a slip-up.

The Wiki has Routledge's occupation listed as "actress, singer."

An actress, perhaps, but an actress who primarily works on comedies.

[Fuzzyman]

Fine. I admit it. Routledge is a fakeclaim. I am in actuality Chris Barrie (who is, ironically enough, strictly an actor), a vanilla townie. My goal in claiming princess was to draw the nightkill and put more pressure on the town to kill DeathSauce. I don't know whether I'll be policy lynched for lying or not, but I do know that if this town is going to win, DS has to die.

[Fuzzyman]

The part that bugs me is that you could have matched some other role with Chris Barrie.

I don't know much about the theme, as is evinced by my asking the moderator in the queue whether or not it was to be needed.

If you claimed Beloved Princess to try to fool the scum, why did you give up on the claim? Why not stand by it? I don't see why you would back away from your claim so readily, if that were indeed your plan.

I felt that we were getting closer to a Fuzzy lynch, which, since I know I am town, is heavily detrimental to the town. I felt I had a better chance of escaping LAL earlier rather than later.

Fuzzyman, do you have a history of gambits you could point me to?

I had a memorable jailkeeper fakeclaim on Day 1 in Hip Hop Mafia. <--very fun read

[Fuzzyman]

I'm afraid not.