Stars Aligned II - Game Over!

[elvis_knits]

I read the first few pages of the last game (like maybe 4 pages?), and I can think of atleast one way to catch scum while claiming noises. I'm not going to explain at this time

While asking questions of our dear mod, I found out that cultists are notified if their fetish action fails due to a ward. So, they know who was warded (if they tried to craft fetish on a person). But the target will have heard noise either way and doesn't know if it's because there is a fetish of them, or because they were protected.

I also think it's important to find out who heard noise that wasn't warded, so we know they are people that are either 1)targets of the cult from fetish action or stalk action; or 2)cultists faking some shit. Then it is up to the other investigators to look at these people to decide if they are pro-town and worthy of a ward or a resuscitate action tonight.

My idea is that everybody claims 1)Did you hear noise; and 2)Did you ward? (Note: ward targets should not be revealed until later).

OBV, I am open to other strategies since I am not always the best at this kind of thing. But that's my idea. It's sort of like what the last game did, I think.

[elvis_knits]

I heard noise, how's that, babycakes?

Of course you did! You're dgb!

[elvis_knits]

OH!

Also, I was wondering if there was some way to circle protect each other, and then maybe according to who dies we know where there is a link in the chain?

I haven't thought through that idea completely if it will work or not, but I remember one game I played with all doctors we did that, and it helps narrow things down. Somebody with a more mathematical mind may need ot help me here!

[elvis_knits]

Ward
Side Effects: Your target hears Noise. You hear Noise. Your action will fail if someone targets you with Ward, and you will not be notified of the failure. If you choose this action two nights in a row, you gain an Insanity.

Not a good idea?

Okay so there's no way to circle protect because warding somebody prevents them from warding somebody else.

[elvis_knits]

ANyway,

I heard noise. I warded.

[elvis_knits]

fuck it, I'll play it your way, the cult is already down with it so the rest of us sheeple should go along with it.

i heard a noise, and I think it is retarded to be claiming, and people shouldn't be saying if they warded or not, but I didn't ward.

Can you explain your strategy and why we should do it? I think most people are still open to looking at other startegies, so you don't need to assume that we're sheep and don't care what anyone has to say.

I am especially interested in why you think an investigative approach is better that warding or resuscitate. I think there could be benefit of choosing one over the other because it would eliminate some of the results that are like false positives (an investigator that gets bloody from resuscitate will look like a cultist who participated in the ritual). So there might be some merit to agreeing to choose some actions and not others as a means of making our results more accurate for finding scum. Is this what you were thinking?

[elvis_knits]

I think the dramonic wagon, though understandable, is a bit premature. No one is a murderer yet, but there are scum already. We should be trying to lynch scum, not a later potential 3rd party.

I think the point is that dram either rolled cult -or- he rolled investigator who will choose to become a murderer. Why are you not thinking about the scenario where dramonic rolled cultist?

vote slysly

[elvis_knits]

Adel, why do claims benefit cult?

[elvis_knits]

I heard no noise, did not use ward.

Also, I decided to Launder myself, and I chose Avolition because I essentially, over the period of the game, seem really scummy in every game I play, as well as I always seem to find townies scummy. By day 4, I should have some info to make an informed decision.

(viii) Avolition - For three Days, your vote no longer contributes to a lynch. Your vote still shows up in vote counts.

You chose to give yourself an insanity?

unvote; vote animorpherv

[elvis_knits]

I think Ani either stalked last night and is explaining his insanity, or he is a cultist who thought it would be better to claim an insanity now so that when he participates in the ritual later, he has laid the groundwork for his excuse.

[elvis_knits]

I was going to vote EK for challenging Sly on what were quite reasonable reservations with dramwagon, but Ani is sort of crazy. I agree with EK. Either she is quite dumb, or she has an anti-town ulterior motive.

Quite dumb or anti-town? Are these the only options?

[elvis_knits]

Why is this thread 17 pages long now?

[elvis_knits]

I'm up to page 9... I did not ward VP Baltar.

[elvis_knits]

I'm up to page 9... I did not ward VP Baltar.

I also didn't ward Adel.

[elvis_knits]

I think Drench claimed no noise no ward.

Dram's consipracy theory of cult-ani laundering to look like an investigator seems sort of far-fetched.

I think that if nobody warded VP, that Ani did stalk but he stalked somebody -- not Adel. It would be smart for him to say he stalked the wrong target because then we all watch for Adel to die and Adel doesn't. Somebody else dies but we don't connect it to Ani.

However, I fully expect VP to have been warded because if so, then we have 10 people who heard noises who weren't warded. These people have fetished crafted of them. Meaning we have 5 cultists who crafted 2 fetishes each. The OP said 1/4 scum, which is more like probably 6 cultists in the game. So one cultist was either blocked due to a ward, or they searched for resuscitation kit. That would be my guess.

[elvis_knits]

You think it more likely that a cultist sacrificed his night action to launder?

I think it more likely that Ani did stalk Adel, but if he didn't, he stalked somebody else. Claiming a different target seems much more likely since it's a smart thing to do. Meanwhile, a cultist choosing to launder is stupid because it 1)draws unnecessary attention to you, 2)sacrifices other beneficial night actions for you and your team. It seems unlikely that ani would do that even if he is dense because the rest of his team would tell him how stupid it was.

[elvis_knits]

I warded DGB.

I amended wicked's chart of claims to reflect my info, and some things that were missing.

IN DANGER:
Adel - Heard noise. No ward.(VP failed ward/Ani stalked)
Amished - Heard noise. No ward.
Col. Cathart - Heard noise. No ward.

dramonic - Heard noise. No ward. (Chaco warded)
DrippingGoofball - Heard noise. No ward. (elvis warded)

Ellibereth - Heard noise. No ward.
Iecerint - Heard noise. No ward.
iLord - Heard noise. No ward.
Phate - Heard noise. No ward.
Sajin - Heard noise. No ward.
Sarag - Heard noise. No ward.
Seacore - Heard noise. No ward.
vikingfan - Heard noise. No ward.


Safe:

animorpherv1 - No noise. No ward.
Drench - No noise. No ward.
evilsnail - No noise. No ward.
Faraday - No noise. No ward.
Nicodemus - No noise. No ward.
semioldguy - No noise. No ward.
SlySly - No noise. No ward.
startransmission - No noise. No ward.
VP - Heard noise. Ward Adel (failed). Warded by Wicked.
Dram - heard noise, warded by chaco
DGB - heard noise, warded by elvis


Unknown:

Chaco - Heard noise. Warded Dram.
elvis_knits - Heard noise. Used ward. DGB
Wickedestjr - Heard noise. Used ward. VP

[elvis_knits]

Chaco, why did you ward dramonic?

[elvis_knits]

I am still a bit torn on the question of lynching Animorpherv. He proved he has an insanity, which means he's probably not cult. I don't buy his whole "I was trying to help the town by turning murderer/vig and stalking Adel." I think he just thought it would be fun to go murderer. I don't trust him in the sense that I think he's not tyring to help the town, and in the sense that he is liable to screw up even if he is trying to help town. For those reasons I don't want him alive.

However, I don't think he's cult. It would be virtually impossible for him to be cult. I think it would have to be the really odd situation dramonic describes where the cult decided it would rather have ani launder himself than craft fetishes (which I really don't think they would choose).

I am tempted to still lynch ani because we know we're getting rid of somebody who is probably trying to screw us and become murder. It's like a sure thing. But he's probably not cult. And it would be better to kill cult, althouth any other lynch probably won't be as sure.

It almost pains me to do this because I don't believe for a minute ANi was trying to help the town.

But

unvote Animorpherv

Because I don't think he's cult. But we are going to have to lynch him in the coming days, I think. I don't want him around to the point he could potentially win as murderer.

@Nicodemus

-- what did you think was the point of claiming noises? (Since you didn't seem to understand what exactly makes noise and what does not).

[elvis_knits]

Chaco, why did you ward dramonic?

Heh, I was waiting for this question. So, in Stars 1 Dram immediately went for Murderer. It seems Dram-ish. In this game, I thought he would not go down the same path since he utterly failed last time. All murderers did. I expected people to meta Dramonic, and maybe stalk him so I warded him.

You thought there was a big chance that
1)People choose to become murderers
2)They meta dram and see that he went murderer and failed last time
3)Assume dram would NOT go murderer this time, and so want to kill him

This is a little...um convoluted.

If people read the other game and noticed dram failed and that all the murderers had a hard time, why would they even try to become murderers?

[elvis_knits]

Ell, would you request a modkill on two (IMO) town-appearing players as a town player for great justice?

I know you aren't asking me...

I know I would not. However, Sly does not appear to think like other humans

I also want to say that I really dislike Sly's discussion of "vigs" throughout the thread. Nobody should be taking insanities and taking the path of MURDERERS in an effort to "vig" for the town. If you want someone dead that bad, let's lynch them. Because "vigging" is more likely to hit town, and while you're doing it, you're not doing the pro-town investigator actions. And it provides a convenient excuse for murderers.

[elvis_knits]

If people read the other game and noticed dram failed and that all the murderers had a hard time, why would they even try to become murderers?

I doubt people read it really, so I expected some to target Dram. Simple as that.

I don't get why you thought he would be a likely target though. For murderers? For cult?

[elvis_knits]

ATTENTION EVERYONE:

murder =/= vig

[elvis_knits]

Seriously though, if anyone commits a murder, I will lynch you.

[elvis_knits]

Seriously though, if anyone commits a murder, I will lynch you.

If anyone commits a murder? How flawed is your logic? I could ONLY kill Dramonic. Have someone use occult books, and stop being impulsive.

HoS

Impulsion will get you no where in this game.

People trying to be vigs will only screw us for several reasons, which I already said.

1)More likely to hit town
2)While you're stalking and murdering, you waste 2 nights worth of pro-town actions. You are effectively taking that from the town
3)You make it harder for others to distinguish you from a murderer, increasing the chance that we lynch you
4)Also, you could totally be a murderer faking this "vig" bullshit to explain why you were killing an innocent townie. The excuse is too convenient. And I will not open the door for murderers to use a "vig" excuse.

So, yes, I will totally lynch anyone who commits a murder.

[elvis_knits]

Your assuming, with only meta behind. And Elvis wants to lynch

me

is

anyone

gets murdered. That add up in the slightest? If it does, by all means, please let me know. I wanna be the first.

WHAT...

I would only lynch you if you're responsible for the murder.

The "you" was a general you, not specific.

[elvis_knits]

Seriously though, if anyone commits a murder, I will lynch you.

Was this not clear?

Whoever commits a murder gets lynched.

NOT

"If any player in the game commits a murder we lynch chaco."

[elvis_knits]

Elli, how do we stop your plan from ending in a bloodbath? Empowering everyone (or half) the town to become vigs usually ends badly.

[elvis_knits]

Oh God, but I agree with sly.

[elvis_knits]

Ok, fine then I'll set a precedent.
HI EVERYONE, I'M AN IDIOT WHO STALKED N1.

Stalked: Col_Cathart
Insanity: Taboo Launder

I did it while forgetting half the rules. yay me!

...

What was your thought process when you chose stalk...?

[elvis_knits]

Ok, fine then I'll set a precedent.
HI EVERYONE, I'M AN IDIOT WHO STALKED N1.

Stalked: Col_Cathart
Insanity: Taboo Launder

I did it while forgetting half the rules. yay me!

...

What was your thought process when you chose stalk...?

I blame it onto the lack of a thought process.
Even worse my insanity cannot be confirmed like Ani's so I should probably land on the "to be murdered" list of people if we go through with my plan.

No, really, what were you thinking?

[elvis_knits]

Wicked -- cultists could craft fetish or search (and perhaps I guess launder?)

Q: I'm a Cultist. What can I do on Night 0?
A: The first thing you should do is talk to your fellow Cultists in your quicktopic. On the first Night, you should be looking to perform Craft Fetish on multiple targets, as well as choosing Search to get Equipment that will help your side later on (such as a Resuscitation Kit in case you are threatened by Murderers). An important strategy will be faking claims - such as explaining your Insanities, what Night Actions you took and when and how you heard or produced Noise, so discuss this with your Cultist buddies.

[elvis_knits]

I still don't really understand the plan... I will go back and try to figure it out but if someone could lay it out in terms that a monkey can understand, I would be grateful.

[elvis_knits]

So I don't understand the plan but I am naturally suspicious of any plan formulated by a player who claims they chose stalk last night with no good explanation. And I am naturally suspicious of any plan that turns us all into "vigs" in a game where vigs are really murderers (read THIRD PARTY!).

I know I already asked this before, but I didn't understand phate's answer -- what stops this from becoming a bloodbath? Lots of townVIGs almost always destroys the town.

Granted, I still don't understand the plan...

I'm waiting for somebody to explain in terms a monkey can understand.

[elvis_knits]

My problem is how do we know that we are going to hit more than half the cultists? And even if we do, how do we know that a fair amount of the "vigs" won't choose to become murderers?

If we hit half the cult, our ratio of town to scum is still the same, but we've killed half the game and are in the exact same position. So it's functionally useless only now with lower numbers are closer to lylo.

And how do we guard against players becoming murderers? Aren't we just trading less cult for more murderers?

[elvis_knits]

The people who I think need to die:

Elli - explanation for why he chose stalk makes no sense to me. Plan is scummy.
Chaco - explanation for warding Dram also makes no sense.
Nico - not understanding the ward action is somewhat suspicious
Iecerint - seems to want to cut of discussion of plans by saying anyone who opposes the plan must be scum
Ani - either scum or dumbtown who is functionally scum

vote ellibereth

[elvis_knits]

VP, why do you want to lynch me?

You're scum. duh.

I fully agree with this. It is the reasoning of champions.

unvote; vote iecerint

[elvis_knits]

Wait, VP there is another reason Iecerint is scum.

He wanted to stop discussion of the plan by saying anyone who disagrees or says they don't understand are scum.

The plan is kinda a no-brainer IMO. It is both simple to understand and intuitively simple to implement. The people who either can't understand it or don't think it would work should indicate what is challenging to understand or why it will not work. It looks like people are trying to cast doubt on a clearly-powerful plan because they have no other means of undermining it.

Pressures people to agree to plan or take more suspicion onto themselves.

[elvis_knits]

Love how you don't respond afterwards. So are we clear now that Occult Books have a purpose? *thumbs up*

Moving on, I'm gonna reread in a bit.

Hey, how many peole do you think I can beat on at a time, here? I was getting to you.

How is occult books going to help me figure out if you're scum considering I don't have them, and they can only tell me if your insanity is higher than mine?

I do not know what you have going on. You could be a cultist who crafted fetish of dram and then will pass it to him to give him an insanity. You won't get an insanity. You would only get an insanity from performing the ritual. And by the time I f-ing get occult books and check you, you could be like, "oh, I must have been passed a fetish from the cult. I'm still not scum!" Meanwhile I will get an insanity from checking you with the books.

So yeah. I don't like your plan.

[elvis_knits]

Iecerint -- I see no reason why town players would blindly accept a plan put forth by a player who admits to stalking last night, a plan which will result in massive death. Players are not allowed to think about this for a while? They are not allowed to be like "that doesn't sound so good to me!" without having all the specific reasons why the plan is bad. You can intuitively know a plan seems off without knowing why. You will notice that I was suspicious from the get-go because stalker-Elli suggested it, and because it involved massive death. I wasn't able to say how that would logistically play out... but it seemed like there was already reason to discuss further and not just accept out of hand.

The way Elli took all agreement to Adel's plan as agreement to his, and the way you tried to immediately assign scumminess to people who didn't immediately accept the plan -- these things made me feel rushed into acceptance.

If Elli is telling the truth about stalking, he wants to win as a murderer.

Players who want to win with the town would NOT have chosen stalk last night.

They just wouldn't have.

If Elli is lying about stalk, he is cult. I can totally see the motivation for a cult player to "prove" they're not cult by pretending to stalk. Then suggest a plan where they can convince the town to vig themselves.

Either way, Elli is not our friend.

Once more, with feeling:

Players who want to win with the town would NOT have chosen stalk last night. They are either planning to become murderers or they are cultists trying to convince us they aren't cult.

[elvis_knits]

I didn't stalk last night.

Okay then who did you craft fetish for?

[elvis_knits]

EK, I'm a bit surprised at you. I can kind of understand VP picking a favorite target and tunneling, even if the timing of his escalation was very suspicious, but your involvement puzzles me. Namely, your explanations of my scuminess are either myopic in ways I do not associate with your play, or hinge on the scuminess of other players.

AtE

[elvis_knits]

DGB invited me to play this game too! She is such a flirt.

[elvis_knits]

When people accuse me of

tunneling

after I only called them scummy today, and only voted them 4 or 5 posts ago... I naturally want to

confirm vote: Iecerint

[elvis_knits]

EK, I'm a bit surprised at you. I can kind of understand VP picking a favorite target and

tunneling

, even if the timing of his escalation was very suspicious, but your involvement puzzles me. Namely, your explanations of my scuminess are either myopic in ways I do not associate with your play, or hinge on the scuminess of other players.

Weren't you saying VP Baltar, and myself are both tunneling on you?

[elvis_knits]

Can we talk about Ellibereth saying there are 7 cultists?

25 players, so it's about 18/7 or something like that, right?

Cultists, who number approximately one quarter

25/4=6.25

I had already assumed elsewhere that we have 6. I think Dram did too. Ellibereth varied from an already posted assumption of 6 cultists.

I can't be sure this is a slip, because perhaps Elli rounded up (although, when the number is less than .5, who rounds up?). But I think there is a decent chance here that it's a slip and I want it on the record that this was really weird.

[elvis_knits]

I warded DGB because she is my soul sista.

Also I thought she would be a popular target because she is a veteran player, well-known, and dangerous. I could see her being a target of the cult or a stalk... or both. I also hate it when she dies early in games so I wanted to give her a bit more staying-power.

[elvis_knits]

I warded DGB because she is my soul sista.

Also I thought she would be a popular target because she is a veteran player, well-known, and dangerous. I could see her being a target of the cult or a stalk... or both. I also hate it when she dies early in games so I wanted to give her a bit more staying-power.

Thank you! Much appreciated.

I agree with Ellibereth's plan, whatever it is, if it results in CSL's early demise.

I don't think we're doing the "everybody vigs each other" plan anymore. The only plan left is Elli murders CSL tonight.

Despite my dislike of investigators turning rogue, I will make an exception for CSL. I have never seen him be anything but a handicap for town.

And iLord is right we can force Elli to take confirmable insanity, which will reassure me he has not turned murderer.

Also, Percy said the NK flavors will reflect whether or not a player died due to murder or ritual, so Elli cannot kill CSL via ritual and pass it off as a murder. If CSL's death flavor is a murder, and Elli takes a confirmable insanity that is not psychopathy, Elli is indeed town.

[elvis_knits]

Iecerint, this "secret scumtell" business is really annoying. First you call scumtells on people without saying what they are, then you take them back?

[elvis_knits]

If you can't explain what the tell is, and I can't decide for myself, then it is useless to me.

[elvis_knits]

Hey, did you know that CSL, Sarag, dramonic, Drench, Hayker, and startransmission are all in this game?

Fun fact of the day.

And I think Sarag, dramonic and drench were all in stars alligned 1, which should make them more motivated to play this game, and more helpful with strategy, etc.

[elvis_knits]

unvote; vote nicodemus

[elvis_knits]

unvote; vote icerunt

[elvis_knits]

Your question, Iecerint?

You mean the flamer that baited me? Did I unvote you because dgb told me to??

No, I did not unvote you because dgb told me to.

I unvoted you because I think Nico's misunderstanding of the ward power is pretty scummy. Also, Iwas having some doubts that you are scum. However, you have allayed all my fears. Baiting me for

unvoting

you is scummy to the max.

1)Your insistence on pushing the scummy plan was bad, but what is worse is how you tried to push people into accepting the plan and accepting it fast. Implying people who don't sign onto the elli plan immediately are either dumb (and shouldn't be listened to) or scum.

The plan is kinda a no-brainer IMO. It is both simple to understand and intuitively simple to implement. The people who either can't understand it or don't think it would work should indicate what is challenging to understand or why it will not work. It looks like people are trying to cast doubt on a clearly-powerful plan because they have no other means of undermining it.

2) Your secret scumtell business is scummy. If you can't talk about it, then you can't use it as a reason. A scum can call "secret scumtell" on anyone they want and then say "ongoing game sorry can't explain." You will not get away with that BS with me.
2a)Then you took back a secret scumtell on seacore because Katy replaced him! Are you buddying Katy or what?

3) Also, you keep character assasinating me. It is very underhanded and scummy. It is a way to neutralize my contributions to this game. I don't apreciate it.

EK. Either she is quite dumb, or she has an anti-town ulterior motive.

EK, I'm a bit surprised at you. I can kind of understand VP picking a favorite target and tunneling, even if the timing of his escalation was very suspicious, but your involvement puzzles me. Namely, your explanations of my scuminess are either myopic in ways I do not associate with your play, or hinge on the scuminess of other players.

EK, I'm a bit surprised at you. I can kind of understand VP picking a favorite target and tunneling, even if the timing of his escalation was very suspicious, but your involvement puzzles me. Namely, your explanations of my scuminess are either myopic in ways I do not associate with your play, or hinge on the scuminess of other players.

AtE

Well, more specifically, your interpretation of my post encouraging people who are confused/"confused"/skeptical/"skeptical" to voice their concerns a bit more explicitly was incredibly myopic, and your lengthy discussion of why Ell is a nasty man was the example that hinged on other players' actions. I thought the events were recent enough that I wouldn't have to cross-supply the posts that explicitly for you.

You

whined

about me doing the latter in Nouns mafia not too long ago (we were both town), so it is surprising to see you do as much.

I think EK's reasoning in this game is weaker than in other games I've played with her (including Nouns mafia, where she thought I was scum until midway D2), though, and I think it may be deliberate, so I'm comparatively skeptical about her being town.

Constant references to me either being dumb or scum, and then your latest reasoning that I am playing so dumb that I cannot be serious, that it is some scum ploy on my part to act deliberately stupid. How is that for WIFOM unsubstantiated reasoning?

I really don't think I have been acting stupid, so stop fucking saying that.

[elvis_knits]

elvis and icerink = town on town action.

Are you sure?

But he's being such a jerk.

[elvis_knits]

But he's being such a jerk.

That's how I know he's town, if he were scum, he would be sending you flowers and bonbons.

You'd be surprised. Some people who are supposed to know me still don't know that I destroy my opposition with flamethrowers and that I put out for bonbons.

[elvis_knits]

Nicodemus -- I want a list of people you find scummy and why in your next post

[elvis_knits]

I think the dramonic wagon, though understandable, is a bit premature. No one is a murderer yet, but there are scum already. We should be trying to lynch scum, not a later potential 3rd party.

I think the point is that dram either rolled cult -or- he rolled investigator who will choose to become a murderer. Why are you not thinking about the scenario where dramonic rolled cultist?

vote slysly

This is extremely weak. Elvis's reasoning for continuing to push the dramonic wagon is nothing more than "dramonic might have drawn scum"? Sly had already said why he wasn't pursuing the dramonic wagon, but E_K tries to bully him onto it anyway with shoddy reasoning. Seriously, if the only reasoning we need to vote for people is that they "might have drawn scum", well, we might as well just go home now.

This is wrong and misleading on a number of levels.

First of all, I wasn't even voting dramonic. So I was hardly pushing the dramonic wagon.

Second of all, I wasn't saying people should vote dramonic because he could have rolled a scum role. Seriously. Look what I wrote. It does not say what you're saying it says.

I was saying:

I think the point is that dram either rolled cult

-or-

he rolled investigator who will choose to become a murderer

If he rolled cult, he's scum. If he rolled investigator, he will turn scum. Either way: scum. At the start of the day, I did not mind peole voting on this (as good a reason to start a wagon as any). I think I was even thinking about joining myself. However, it's basically a policy lynch, and I don't feel that policy lynches yield that much info, so I would rather scumhunt, so that I can better judge reactions and such, and have more to go on.

Sly's post was mostly about whether he thought dram would turn murderer. Which ignores the other possibility: that dram is cult. I didn't know why sly wasn't thinking of that possibility -- was it because sly already knows who is in the cult (meaning sly is cult)?

I will give a similar example. When I see players looking for a specific type of scum early in a game, they are usually scum themselves. For instance, early in a game, if a player calls another player "the SK" instead of just "scum." This is a signal the accuser is either the SK themselves, or they are mafia looking to lynch the SK. Early in a game, scum are nearly indistinguishable from each other if you're a townie, so getting too specific, or ignoring one type of scum in favor of another is a scumtell.

Now that I have explained why this is a valid scumtell... I feel like I have to also explain that I don't think Sly is scum anymore!

I was picking on something that I thought *might* be a scumtell in the early part of the day, so that I could get more info to better read sly. His answer was something along the lines of "I was not talking about cult because I didn't think anyone else was either... the main argument seemed to be about him going murderer." Which I think is a misunderstanding of the argument, but it's an okay explanation to me. And taken with his other behavior, I don't see him as scum. He seems to be scum hunting and looking out for the town's best interests, and entirely faithful to his world-view, not worried about pissing people off. Scum tend to want to suck up more. So I'm not too worried that Sly is scum.

[elvis_knits]

Well, I was going to just vote Nicodemus and that would have been a short post, but I figured I would give him the long version and see what he says instead.

[elvis_knits]

Nico's misunderstanding of the ward action is bad. But I also noticed some things I didn't like in his answers to iLord. Nico is hyper-aware that his actions might be viewed as scummy.

I guess I did phrase this wrong, but only because I didn't want to be accused of being "too eager" or anything like that.

I knew that making an explanation post could be viewed as scummy, but I thought that if I unvoted with no explanation at all then I would get called out for that. In the end I just decided that more information = good, so I went ahead and put my justification for unvoting.

[elvis_knits]

[Sly's] answer was something along the lines of "I was not talking about cult because I didn't think anyone else was either... the main argument seemed to be about him going murderer." Which I think is a misunderstanding of the argument, but it's an okay explanation to me.

The background probability that anyone is scum is identical, assuming roles were assigned randomly. The only variable we were discussing was the probability that dram would go murderer given that he was not scum. Hence, the main argument was about the probability that dram would go murderer.

Probablity and logic like that never occurred to me. What did was the thing I mentioned, about a player paying attention to one type of scum over another.

[elvis_knits]

@Nicodemus- What are your top 6 suspects for cult please? A short reason why with each would be awesome too.

1. vikingfan: lack of scumhunting/little original content
2. SOG: see viking
3. Drench: opposition to the plan without offering any actual reasons for opposing it
4. Hayker: Adel's earlier posts/scumslips + hayker's lurking
5. evilsnail: see SOG
6. E_K: more gut than anything. Still, a few of her posts have seemed off to me

@Katy: Thanks, I'll keep that in mind

unvote, vote nicodemus

This list is a mixture of OMGUS and FAIL.

Except for Drench. He might be a buss. Drench has posted 4 times, and no votes.

Players he suspects who have voted or are voting Nico:
viking
SOG
Evilsnail
elvisknits

Although, I guess, lots of people are voting the guy, so that's bound to happen. I just feel like his "cases" are not good, and aimed at people who have attacked him.

@Nico - what were Adel's scumslips?

[elvis_knits]

NB: EK had only voted Nicky for exactly 3 minutes.

It would have been longer if you had not interfered.

My intent was still obvious. It was clear he was one of my top suspects. For him to dig up my slysly vote from eons ago is a bit of a reach to find something scummy on me.

[elvis_knits]

Hey, iecerint, play nice with the replacements.

[elvis_knits]

I have some thoughts on CSL, but I will wait and see if somebody will claim rezzing him.

---

Nicodemus flipping cult is HUGE!

I agree that we should be able to find some connections in his scum list.

Yesterday I remember thinking that all the people he was "suspicious" of were people who were suspicious of him (OMGUS), with the exception of Drench, who was there for basically no reason. Scumbuddy much?

vote drench

---

I don't really get this reasoning why Slysly HAS to be scum. I thought he was town yesterday.

Are we going crazy about this quote:

@Elli: why isn't sly on your list?

Was he suggesting that Elli put sly on the town list... or just that Sly wasn't on either list? I thought it was that sly wasn't on either list... which doesn't suggest much of anything to me.

Am I missing something?

[elvis_knits]

Updated info:

I'm just putting everything in that I noticed people claim... might not all be true!

IN DANGER:
Adel - Heard noise. No ward.(VP failed ward/Ani stalked) [/color]
Amished - Heard noise. No ward.
CSL/Col. Cathart - Heard noise. No ward. Elli stalked. Murdered/rezzed N1

dramonic - Heard noise. No ward. (Chaco warded)
DrippingGoofball - Heard noise. No ward. (elvis warded)

Ellibereth - Heard noise. No ward. STALKER

Iecerint - Heard noise. No ward. - MURDERED N1

iLord - Heard noise. No ward.
Phate - Heard noise. No ward. - CULT RITUAL target/REZ N1

Sajin - Heard noise. No ward. - MURDERED N1

Sarag - Heard noise. No ward.

Katy/Seacore - Heard noise. No ward. - MURDERED N1

vikingfan - Heard noise. No ward.


Safe:

animorpherv1 - No noise. No ward.
Drench - No noise. No ward.
evilsnail - No noise. No ward.
Faraday - No noise. No ward.

Nicodemus - No noise. No ward. LYNCHED D1 - CULT

semioldguy - No noise. No ward.
SlySly - No noise. No ward.
startransmission - No noise. No ward.
VP - Heard noise. Ward Adel (failed). Warded by Wicked.
Dram - heard noise, warded by chaco
DGB - heard noise, warded by elvis


Unknown:

Chaco - Heard noise. Warded Dram.
elvis_knits - Heard noise. Used ward. DGB
Wickedestjr - Heard noise. Used ward. VP

[elvis_knits]

CSL not dying is well....irritating. Either the cult tried to set up Ellibereth last night by rezing CSL, CSL is cult, or Elli is cult who participated in the ritual.

Do you really think cult would waste a rez kit on CSL if he wasn't cult?

[elvis_knits]

No, I would never believe that a townie rezzed csl. I was thinking that cult rezzed csl because he is cult, or that elli didn't try to kill him (because she's cult or something), or they're both cult. I didn't think about the possibility of scum setting up a mislynch by rezzing a town CSL. I guess you're right that it could make sense.

[elvis_knits]

Hey, did anybody say this yet?

Regarding Hayker... he replaced Adel. So it's possible that more than one player stalked Adel. He would be a popular night choice. And after Ani comes out claiming to stalk adel and promising not to kill adel... the other stalked is dancing the macarena, putting in the kill on Adel that we all think is Ani.

Still doesn't explain why CSL was rezzed. I still think no townie would rezz csl.

[elvis_knits]

Sorry I skipped from Adel to CSL last post... I have some flu or something and my brain is not working right...

[elvis_knits]

On CSL L+1'ing: The difference between L and his L+1 was 2 minutes.

I would say that it's feasible that CSL simply didn't see Nico's self-hammer.

Makes it more a null-tell more than anything.

Nicodemus = Too scummy for words.

18 posts? Give me a break. Nicodemus is lurkerscum!

Vote: Nicodemus

At the point where Nico voted ani, I knew Nicodemus was scum.

(Preview) OVERKILL

!

[elvis_knits]

Updating... color-coding...

IN DANGER:

Hayker/Adel - Heard noise. No ward.(VP failed ward/Ani stalked) Murdered/rezzed N1

Amished - Heard noise. No ward.

CSL/Col. Cathart - Heard noise. No ward. Elli stalked. Murdered/rezzed N1

dramonic - Heard noise. No ward. (Chaco warded)
DrippingGoofball - Heard noise. No ward. (elvis warded)

Iecerint - Heard noise. No ward. - MURDERED N1

iLord - Heard noise. No ward.

Phate - Heard noise. No ward. - CULT RITUAL target/REZ N1

Sajin - Heard noise. No ward. - MURDERED N1

Plum/Sarag - Heard noise. No ward.

Katy/Seacore - Heard noise. No ward. - MURDERED N1

vikingfan - Heard noise. No ward.


Safe:

animorpherv1 - No noise. No ward. STALKER!!
Ellibereth - Heard noise. No ward. STALKER!!
Drench - No noise. No ward.
evilsnail - No noise. No ward.
Faraday - No noise. No ward.

Nicodemus - No noise. No ward. LYNCHED D1 - CULT

semioldguy - No noise. No ward.
SlySly - No noise. No ward.
startransmission - No noise. No ward.
VP - Heard noise. Ward Adel (failed). Warded by Wicked.
Dram - heard noise, warded by chaco
DGB - heard noise, warded by elvis


Unknown:

Chaco - Heard noise. Warded Dram.
elvis_knits - Heard noise. Used ward. DGB
Wickedestjr - Heard noise. Used ward. VP

[elvis_knits]

Hey, so CSL, are you bloody?

[elvis_knits]

Oh, and second thing to note is that we have at least three and possibly as many as five murderers.

Phate... where did you come up with this number of possibly five murderers?

[elvis_knits]

I get it now. I'm a little slow today.

[elvis_knits]

Hey so I was looking at Nicodemus ISO and noticed this:

Something I just noted from the OP that may change our warding decisions.

Those who Ward AUTOMATICALLY hear noise, no matter what else happens.

How have my questions about warding been so scummy, but stuff like this flies completely under the radar? We'd already pretty heavily discussed warding and its properties, so why does VF feel the need to throw out this (completely useless) bit of information while all of the Ani stuff is going down? Active lurking?

I never noticed this when viking said it... or even later when Nico pointed it out. Viking shows that he didn't really understand the ward action either -- very similar to Nicodemus.

The fact that Nico is the one that pointed it out though is screwing with my head. Nico was already under fire at this point, so he might have been looking to buss. But on the other hand, WHY would he point out a slip that his scumbuddy made? It's got me in a WIFOM milkshake.

But I think it's significant that viking did NOT understand the ward action. Because this is the tell we spotted on Nico that cooked his culty goose.

[elvis_knits]

You know what is also scummy about Drench is he HAS NEVER VOTED IN THIS GAME.

Many of the insanities involve voting. If he can lurk and not vote much or at all, he can hide insanities. Nevermind that he's not helping scum hunt.

[elvis_knits]

@Magua: Gambler's Fallacy and Framing attempt noted.

Can you point this out for the slow monkeys in the game?

[elvis_knits]

I also think the entire/most of the scumteam is hardcore lurking.
(I like most of the active people)

People like*:

Drench
CSL
startransmission
Plum
evilsnail
DGB
Semi-old
Wick

*I may have placed some non-lurkers and left out some. Off the top of my head with the front post.
I also don't remember which of these guys I got town reads on, but I wouldn't be suprised if the pot. murderers are all lurking too...

Chaco is missing from this list.

Also, there are two people on that list that I lean town on. But hey.

[elvis_knits]

I spent the whole Night Phase reading the thread to catch up.

Why would you read the thread when Elli said repeatedly in all caps that he was killing you?

[elvis_knits]

Plum apparently rezzed Adel/Hayker.

We still don't know who rezzed Phate.

unvote; vote CSL

Although, I don't think we should end the day yet. There are still people we need to hear from, as well as think about strategy.

[elvis_knits]

My list of the most suspicious suspects:
CSL(obv)
Drench
DGB
Dramonic
Chaco
Elli

There other people in my neutral category, and some of them are probably scum too, but I won't name them at this time. The above are the people I definitely do NOT trust.

Animorpherv is meh. Whatever he is, I think it will take care of itself. I'm not saying I

want

him to get himself modkilled via insanity infractions -- but I think that it will probably happen accidentally (he is halfway there already). So I'm not wasting time on him.

[elvis_knits]

Why do you want to lynch phate?

[elvis_knits]

I was passed a fetish last night. I have one insanity. I chose taboo launder.

N0: I warded DGB (Heard noise but didn't know if I was targetted because warding DGB would also cause me to hear noise).
N1: I heard noise (Did not perform an action that would cause me to hear noise)
N2: Received Fetish (Heard noise, but that is a side effect of getting fetish, don't know if I was targetted for anything else)

NOW... this leads me to believe that I was NOT targetted N0. Because if I had a fetish made of me N0, I would have probably gotten the fetish N1, which I didn't. (And if I had been stalked N0, I would be murdered by now).

I am trying to figure out how many active scum we have out there. If other people can possibly narrow things down from N0 atleast, we might be able to figure out how many scum are out there, which might in turn help us figure out if there is a discrepancy in future nights regarding number of actions. I'm not a math person, so someone will have to tell me for sure, but I feel like there are things we can figure out from this.

[elvis_knits]

@e_k: What do you mean by "active scum?" Does that include murderers?

I was thinking that it would include murderers... although stalks from N0 should be either dead or rezzed and thus explainable by now. So I guess we have to look at all the nightclaims from N0 and see which ones were murderers, and the remaining are culties.

Again, I am not the most strategic person, so I would appreciate help refining this train of thought, but I feel like there may be some way to get info by sorting this out.

[elvis_knits]

I think she means active scum as in scum that is not lurking.

No, I really just meant scum. I don't know why I said active. I mean that we can figure out the number of scum from working back through action claims and looking for problems with the claims.

[elvis_knits]

I think we need to do a table at this point... I will work on it in a bit, unless somebody else wants too. There is more claimed info than is in that chart currently, I think.

How do people feel about claiming everything they know at this point? It might help us sort out who we want to force rob graves tonight, as well as just generall catch scum.

Also, I'm assuming starttransmission was cult. 3 insanities! CSL... probably scum of some sort? 2 insanities is indeed what he claimed to us, but his explanation for how he got 2 was scummy.

[elvis_knits]

I didn't make it very far yet, but if somebody wants to keep going with the table they can... or I will continue later. I'm posting it now in case somebody wants to quote and lift it and keep going.

[mrow]Player[col]N0[col]N1[col]N2[col]Explanation/NotesAdel/Hayker[col]Noise:Yes Ward:No[col] Rezzed [col]?[col]VP failed ward/Ani stalked but did not kill/kunkstar(drench) stalk-murder failedMagua(Amished)[col]Noise:Yes Ward:No[col]Noise:No [col]?[col]?CSL(Col.Cathart)[col]Noise:Yes Ward:No[col]Murdered/rezzed [col]-dead with 3 insanities-[col]Elli stalked-murdereddramonic[col]Noise:Yes Ward:No (warded by chaco)[col] ? [col]Noise: No[col]?DGB[col]Noise:Yes Ward:No (warded by elvis)[col]Noise:yes [col]Received fetish[col]?Noise:Yes Ward:No (stalked CSL)[col] Murdered CSL [col]?[col]?[col]?

[elvis_knits]

GODDAMMIT I was working on the chart and was almost done and then lost it all. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

Blah.

Some of the things I was noticing is the interesting bit about kunkstar claiming the Adel/Hayker kill, and also being able to change his insanity from psychopathy (that drench chose) to twitchy. Magua says there is precedent for this from SA1? That just seems like such weird BS to me... I have to think about this.

Also, I am not liking the evilsnail wagon. Evilsnail was one of the early Nicodemus voters and several people attacked his Nico vote. I guess Evil could have been bussing, but still...

[elvis_knits]

That's wacky.

[elvis_knits]

Why do you want to lynch Hayker? Is it because of the pissing contest between you and Adel?

[elvis_knits]

Somebody said that Hayker does that. IIRC, somebody said they just lynched Hayker for lurking in another game and he flipped town.

[elvis_knits]

That means nothing in this game. Hayker is not participating at all. That = anti-town = good lynch.

Yeah but I thought Adel was like obv-town, so I don't really care about Hayker since his meta is to lurk.

[elvis_knits]

VP, it looks like the people that attacked evilsnail over his Nico vote were:

iLord
Drench
Amished

Yeah, I noticed that too. Good point.

Vote: Nicodemus

Uh-huh.

Yeah, I noticed that too.

Good point.

Vote: Nicodemus

Uh-huh.

yeah i noticed that too

Evil, if you had noticed that, why didn't you mention it? Why did you withhold that you had noticed this until someone else mentioned it? And then, when someone did mention it, why didn't you elaborate on what you thought was scummy about it, rather than just using someone else's case?

did we notice that too

You guys are all nuts.

Also, thank god for Adel leaving as that'll cut down on null-tell-orific talk about the setup. As a side note, I would have been opposed to the strategy since I'm about playing the game, and not padding the stats. I don't get better at scumhunting if I'm just following a formula that would just be an "auto-win" button.

Evil: Why didn't you bring it up when you "saw" it though? Now that somebody else brought it up you can attack him over it? I think you didn't want to expose yourself by attacking somebody over something small as scum.

Vote: evilsnail

iLord has seemed town to me (he was a main force behind Nico lynch)

Drench is a force of evil... not sure I believe kunkstar's story about choosing to come back to the good side. Kunkstar says Drench decided to go murderer and kunk has switched back to being town. He also says he has occult books. BUT, we see here Drench was defending Nico (by attacking evil's vote on Nico). So... what if Drench has been cult all along, and kunk has been advised by scumteam to claim he is a reformed murderer to account for Drench's scummy play and his insanity count. Also, the fact he has occult books is a perfect cover for his future gain of another insanity -- because when you use occult books you gain an insanity.

Amished was replaced by Magua, who has seemed town to me. This post by Amished looks bad to me, and puts a little chip in Magua's armor, IMO. I guess I would still say Magua is town, but we should just keep this little nugget in mind if other things don't add up with magua.

[elvis_knits]

Also, I dig what EK is putting down about kunk possibly being cult. If one of the cult members was in SA1, they definitely could have advised him to claim he switched back from murderer. The pieces just don't add up for him.

This is what is now making me wonder about Magua... because Magua was Amished who voted Evilsnail for voting Nico. And Magua was the one who brought up that this change-your-choice-of-insanity thing is possible because it happened in SA1. AND Magua was cult in SA1. I think he was the last alive. So he knows his shit.

So... yesterday I really liked a lot about of what Magua was saying. I thought he was like superTown^TM. But this new Drench-AMished-Nico connection has me a little scared that Magua could totally be pulling the strings in a bid to save kunkstar.

Another thing I don't like about the kunkstar story is that he says Drench took Taboo launder N0. But Drench never voted his whole time in this game which seems like evidence that he had a voting insanity he was trying to hide. And it's hella convenient that kunkstar is bloody and will continue to be bloody because he can't launder. Cover story much?

Am I being paranoid?

[elvis_knits]

(vii) Twitchy - All posts by you in which you vote or unvote must contain "*twitch*" or "*twitches*".

If he said "twitchy" would that count or not?

[elvis_knits]

But do you have to have the little stars around it?

like: *twitch*

[elvis_knits]

If we force people to rob 2 graves and they're a murderer, they are prevented from other actions... but if they're cult that can just split up the graves so they are only robbing one grave and their cult buddy robs one grave and they can still do their evil-actions. It will look like they robbed the graves they were supposed to, and couldn't have done an action. But if the person is cult they can get around this.

Has anybody brought this up yet?

Is there a way we are accounting for this?

[elvis_knits]

Evilsnail is probably town guys. He was the first to vote Nico based on the slip, and people attacked him over it.

[elvis_knits]

I feel like dramonic and SoG have not been that helpful/active as they should be considering they already played this game before.

[elvis_knits]

Okay I am going to work on the dreaded table again now. If anything has something they want in the table, please tell me now. I will be previewing so I'll see it.

[elvis_knits]

Elli, what did you do with yourself last night?

[elvis_knits]

AWWWW! Cute, a kitten!

[elvis_knits]

Did anybody except me and DGB claim to have recieved fetishes?

[elvis_knits]

This is not complete by any means... I probably missed things and also some things haven't been claimed.

Anything I missed, please tell me. I also am toying with the idea of having another column for insanity count and chosen insanities.

Any other suggestions welcome.


[mrow]Player[col]N0[col]N1[col]N2[col]Explanation/Notes Adel/Hayker[col]Noise:Yes Ward:No[col] Rezzed [col]?[col]VP failed ward/Ani stalked but did not kill/kunkstar(drench) stalk-murder failed Magua(Amished)[col]Noise:Yes Ward:No[col]Noise:No [col]?[col]?

CSL(Col.Cathart)

[col]Noise:Yes Ward:No[col]Murdered/rezzed [col]-dead with 3 insanities-[col]Elli stalked-murdered dramonic[col]Noise:Yes Ward:No (warded by chaco)[col] ? [col]Noise: No[col]? DGB[col]Noise:Yes Ward:No (warded by elvis)[col]Noise:yes [col]Received fetish[col]? Ellibereth[col]Stalked CSL[col] Murdered CSL [col]Search Forensics kit[col]?

Iecerint

[col]Noise:Yes Ward:No [col] Murdered [col] - [col] No insanities (not yet flipped) iLord[col]Noise:Yes Ward:No [col] Rezzed Phate [col]?[col]?

Phate

[col]Noise:Yes Ward:No [col] Cult target/Rezzed [col]Cult Kill[col]One insanity (presumably due to being rezzed)

Sajin

[col]Noise:Yes Ward:No [col] Murdered [col] - [col]Flipped Investigator Plum/Sarag [col]Noise:Yes Ward:No (stalked CSL)[col]?[col]Received fetish[col]Has like 2 posts

Katy/Seacore

[col]Noise:Yes Ward:No[col] Murdered [col] - [col]Insanity count 0 vikingfan[col]Noise:Yes Ward:No (stalked CSL)[col]?[col]?[col]? Animorperv[col]Stalked Adel/Hayker[col] Searched Forensics kit [col]No actions due to too many II's[col] ? kunkstar/Drench[col]Stalked Adel/Hayker[col] Murdered Adel/Hayker [col]Occult books[col]Claims Drench went murderer but kunk went back to investigator Evilsnail[col]Noise:No Ward:No [col]?[col]?[col]? rewq/faraday[col]Noise:No Ward:No[col] Forensic kit [col]Checked ANi (not bloody)[col]?

Nico

[col]Noise:Yes Ward:No[col] - [col] -[col]Dead cult yay! Semioldguy[col]Noise:No Ward:No [col] ?[col]?[col]? SLy[col]Noise:No Ward:No [col] ?[col]?[col]?

Startransmission

[col]Noise:No Ward:No [col] ?[col]Murdered[col]Insanity Count 3 VP[col]Noise:Yes Ward:Yes [col] ?[col]Noise:No Ward:No[col]Ward on Adel failed N1 due to wicked warding him Chaco[col]Noise:Yes Ward:Yes(Dram)[col]Stalk Startransmission[col]Murdered startransmission[col]? elvis[col]Noise:Yes Ward:Yes (DGB)[col]?[col]Receiver Fetish[col]? wicked[col]Noise:Yes Ward:Yes(VP)[col]?[col]?[col]?

[elvis_knits]

Plum and Viking says they stalked CSL... that's not correct obv. It's there from cutting and pasting. I will correct after I get other corrections. I want to do it all at once.

[elvis_knits]

I rezzed somebody last night too (nothing happened, they weren't targetted). Does that mean that my rezz would fail or your rezz would fail, DGB? Does it matter who sent in first or something?

If I believe that you're not scum DGB, and are rezzing me or warding me, I'll probably do a different action so we don't screw ourselves.

[elvis_knits]

UPDATED with corrections

[mrow]Player[col]N0[col]N1[col]N2[col]Explanation/Notes Adel/Hayker[col]Noise:Yes Ward:No[col]Rezzed by Plum [col]Laundered[col]VP failed ward/Ani stalked but did not kill/kunkstar(drench) stalk-murder failed Magua(Amished)[col]Noise:Yes Ward:No[col]Noise:No [col]?[col]?

CSL(Col.Cathart)

[col]Noise:Yes Ward:No[col]Murdered/rezzed [col]-dead with 2 insanities-[col]Elli stalked-murdered dramonic[col]Noise:Yes Ward:No (warded by chaco)[col] Noise:No [col]?[col]? DGB[col]Noise:Yes Ward:No (warded by elvis)[col]Noise:yes/Rezzed elvis [col]Noise:Yes (fetish)/Rezzed elvis[col]? Ellibereth[col]Stalked CSL[col] Murdered CSL [col]Search Forensics kit[col]?

Iecerint

[col]Noise:Yes Ward:No [col] Murdered [col] - [col] No insanities (not yet flipped) iLord[col]Noise:Yes Ward:No [col] Rezzed Phate [col]Noise:Yes[col]?

Phate

[col]Noise:Yes Ward:No [col] Cult target/Rezzed [col]Cult Kill[col]One insanity (presumably due to being rezzed)

Sajin

[col]Noise:Yes Ward:No [col] Murdered [col] - [col]Flipped Investigator Plum/Sarag [col]Noise:Yes Ward:No [col]Rezzed Adel?Hayker[col]Noise:Yes(fetish)[col]Has like 2 posts

Katy/Seacore

[col]Noise:Yes Ward:No[col] Murdered [col] - [col]Insanity count 0 vikingfan[col]Noise:Yes Ward:No [col]Noise:No Ward:no[col]Noise:Yes Ward:No[col]? Animorperv[col]Stalked Adel/Hayker[col]Robbed grav/Searched Forensics kit [col]No actions due to too many II's[col] ? kunkstar/Drench[col]Stalked Adel/Hayker[col] Murdered Adel/Hayker [col]Occult books[col]Claims Drench went murderer but kunk went back to investigator Evilsnail[col]Noise:No Ward:No [col]?[col]?[col]? rewq/faraday[col]Noise:No Ward:No[col] Forensic kit [col]Checked ANi (not bloody)[col]?

Nico

[col]Noise:Yes Ward:No[col] - [col] -[col]Dead cult yay! Semioldguy[col]Noise:No Ward:No [col]Noise:Yes [col]Noise:Yes[col]? SLy[col]Noise:No Ward:No [col] ?[col]?[col]?

Startransmission

[col]Noise:No Ward:No [col] ?[col]Murdered[col]Insanity Count 3 VP[col]Noise:Yes Ward:Yes(Adel) Warded by Wicked [col]Noise:Yes[col]Noise:No Ward:No[col]Ward on Adel failed N1 due to wicked warding him Chaco[col]Noise:Yes Ward:Yes(Dram)[col]Stalk Startransmission[col]Murdered startransmission[col]? elvis[col]Noise:Yes Ward:Yes (DGB)[col]Noise:yes Searched:Rez Kit[col]Noise:Yes(Fetish) Rezzed(somebody that wasn't targetted)[col]? wicked[col]Noise:Yes Ward:Yes(VP)[col]?[col]?[col]?

[elvis_knits]

vote kunkstar

Because despite this little story that has been spun about Drench's intent to go murderer, and kunstar's repentance... I see a tie to Nico-cult, and non-voting behavior that does not fit with kunk's claim that he took taboo launder as his first insanity. I think this guy is cult.

[elvis_knits]

Hmmm... wait. If kunk is cult, that means he's lying about murdering Adel. And since Ani is not bloody, drench/kunk is the only one who could have done it (presumably, unless there is another person out there who tried to murder Adel and hasn't claimed).

So either kunk is a would-be murderer who may or may not have gone legit - or - drench/kunk and Adel/hayker and Plum are all cult who have crafted an intricate conspiracy.

Is there some way we can check their story?

[elvis_knits]

VP, the REz kit only gets destroyed if you use it to rezz someone who was killed or get bloody through other means. So hypothetically, DGB could have searched for rez kit N0, and used in N1 and N2 on me. I was not murdered/rezzed either night (I would have been told). So the equipment would not have been destroyed. So it is possible. Not sure I believe her, but it is technically possible.

I agree that we should claim insanities -- Your number, the cause, the night you got it, and what handicaps you chose.

I have 1 insanity (from fetish last night). I took Taboo launder.

[elvis_knits]

EK and DGB- Stop posting about what you're going to do in the future. It's antitown. From the OP:

Any Resuscitate action targeting you tonight will fail, and the player who targeted you will not be notified of the failure.


Basically, declaring that you will rezz ANYONE paints a great big bullseye on your back saying, "I'm unprotected, kill me." One could say that one could use WIFOM, except for this...TOWN will not know to protect you either because they will figure, 'Hey, that person is not worth protecting because I can't save them so I'll go after someone else.' Keep your future actions to yourself...we want to keep as many players alive as possible.

Posting about rezzes you've done in the past is fine. Posting about what you're going to do in the future is not.

Okay. Well, I won't use my rezz kit in any case then for this reason.

Something I don't understand though. How does this work if DGB says she targetted me for rezz last night and I targetted someone else for rezz last night. Which one fails? My person is still alive and has claimed they heard noise (which I assumed was from me protecting them).

[elvis_knits]

So Hayker, you only have one insanity?

[elvis_knits]

Cool, now everybody else claim insanities so I can put a row in the table.

[elvis_knits]

I took taboo launder because I thought I remember Magua (or somebody) saying that it becomes more important to be able to verify insanities later. So to save the more verifiable insanities for later. Then today I saw him say something like "nobody should be taking taboo launder." Oh well!

Also, I was afraid of being forgetful of something like twitchy and DQing like Ani did yesterday.

My general thinking was that if people really suspect me so much of being scum, then having a verifiable insanity isn't really going to save me. So I would rather pick one that I didn't think would make me DQ or handicap me in any way.

[elvis_knits]

Also, for the record, I am not bloody. I figured if I get bloody I should have to explain it anyway. So the fact I can't launder... who cares. I don't think I would want to waste a night's actions laundering anyway.

Sort of surprised Hayker laundered last night instead of doing something helpful for the town.

[elvis_knits]

I just looked up Chaos -- "If every living player is Bloody at any time, all Investigators gain the Psychopathy insanity, and the Day phase no longer occurs. For this state to be triggered, there must be at least three more Investigators than Cultists remaining."

I didn't even think of this when I took my insanity. Chaos doesn't seem like something we need to be that worried about, TBH. Atleast not until we get closer to endgame.

But I guess you have a point.

[elvis_knits]

I have one insanity: avolition elvis_knits and I'll prove it by

unvote vote elvis

. I've picked up both a rez kit and occult books and so far have one innocent. Should I reveal said innocent?

Did you mean Aversion?

Avolition is the thing that makes your vote not count for three days.

[elvis_knits]

[mrow]Player[col]N0[col]N1[col]N2[col]Explanation/Notes[col]Insanities Adel/Hayker[col]Noise:Yes Ward:No[col]Rezzed by Plum [col]Laundered[col]VP failed ward/Ani stalked but did not kill/kunkstar(drench) stalk-murder failed[col]1 - due to rez (twitchy) Magua(Amished)[col]Noise:Yes Ward:No[col]Noise:No [col]?[col]?[col]?

CSL(Col.Cathart)

[col]Noise:Yes Ward:No[col]Murdered/rezzed [col]-lynched-[col]Elli stalked-murdered/failed[col]2 dramonic[col]Noise:Yes Ward:No (warded by chaco)[col] Noise:No [col]Noise: No[col]?[col]? DGB[col]Noise:Yes Ward:No (warded by elvis)[col]Noise:yes/Rezzed elvis [col]Noise:Yes (fetish) /Rezzed elvis[col]?[col] Ellibereth[col]Stalked CSL[col] Murdered CSL [col]Search Forensics kit[col]?[col]Atleast 2

Iecerint

[col]Noise:Yes Ward:No [col] Murdered [col] - [col](not yet flipped)[col]0 iLord[col]Noise:Yes Ward:No [col] Rezzed Phate [col]Noise:Yes[col]?[col]0 insanities

Phate

[col]Noise:Yes Ward:No [col] Cult target/Rezzed [col]Cult Kill[col]? [col]1 (presumably due to being rezzed)

Sajin

[col]Noise:Yes Ward:No [col] Murdered [col] - [col]Flipped Investigator[col]0 Plum/Sarag [col]Noise:Yes Ward:No [col]Rezzed Adel/Hayker[col]Noise:Yes(fetish)[col]Has like 2 posts[col]Atleast 1 claimed

Katy/Seacore

[col]Noise:Yes Ward:No[col] Murdered [col] - [col]?[col] 0 vikingfan[col]Noise:Yes Ward:No [col]Noise:No Ward:no[col]Noise:Yes Ward:No[col](Commune?)[col]1 - Aversion (elvis) Animorperv[col]Stalked Adel/Hayker[col]Robbed grav/Searched Forensics kit [col]No actions due to too many II's[col] ?[col]3 kunkstar/Drench[col]Stalked Adel/Hayker[col] Murdered Adel/Hayker [col]Occult books[col]Claims Drench went murderer but kunk went back to investigator[col]2 taboo launder, twitchy Evilsnail[col]Noise:No Ward:No [col]Noise:No Ward:No [col]Noise:No Ward:No [col]?[col]0 rewq/faraday[col]Noise:No Ward:No[col] Forensic kit [col]Checked ANi (not bloody)[col]?[col]0

Nico

[col]Noise:Yes Ward:No[col] Lynched D1 [col] -[col]Dead cult yay![col]0 Semioldguy[col]Noise:No Ward:No [col]Noise:Yes [col]Noise:Yes[col]?[col]0 SLy[col]Noise:No Ward:No [col]Noise:Yes[col]Noise:Yes[col]?[col]?

Startransmission

[col]Noise:No Ward:No [col] ?[col]Murdered[col]?[col] 3 VP[col]Noise:Yes Ward:Yes(Adel) Warded by Wicked [col]Noise:Yes[col]Noise:No Ward:No[col]Ward on Adel failed N1 due to wicked warding him[col]? Chaco[col]Noise:Yes Ward:Yes(Dram)[col]Stalk Startransmission[col]Murdered startransmission[col]?[col]Atleast 2 elvis[col]Noise:Yes Ward:Yes (DGB)[col]Noise:yes Searched:Rez Kit[col]Noise:Yes(Fetish) Rezzed(somebody that wasn't targetted)[col]?[col]1 - taboo launder wicked[col]Noise:Yes Ward:Yes(VP)[col]Noise:No[col]Noise:No[col]?[col]?

[elvis_knits]

I notice an error already - Plum should have atleast 2 insanities - 1 from rezzing, 1 from the fetish.

[elvis_knits]

Interesting confession, Sly. You've played this game before, and in that one it seems you replaced and chose to go from murderer back to investigator. So last time you decided it wasn't worth it to go murderer. What made you think you should try murderer this time?

[elvis_knits]

Sly, also why did you check magua?

[elvis_knits]

SlySly's lying. If he decided to come clean, he should've done so Day 1, like when he supposedly decided so, especially once he saw ani/Elli not being lynched.

Vote: SlySly

Rereading thread right now, but SlySly's the lynch here.

I know, I keep flashing back to Elli saying somehting like: ANY OTHER FOOLS WHO CHOSE STALK AND REALIZE THEIR MISTAKE, CLAIM NOW.

Elli said it multiple times. If Sly changed his mind D1, he should have said it then.

I also don't understand why he chose to go legit in SA1 but not in this game.

I also think it was very misleading for him to be claiming noises for a while without telling us HE HAS HALLUCINATION. And could have cause him to get warded or rezzed even when he doesn't need it.

[elvis_knits]

Another thing I think is generally weird is that on N1 we had:

3 succesfull murders
Phate Rezzed (cult kill)
CSL Rezzed (presumably murdered cult)
Adel/Hayker rezzed
Sly deciding not to murder Amished/Magua

It just seems like multiple people are claiming repentent murderer (Elli, Ani, kunk, Sly), but not claiming any of the successful murders. It makes me wonder if they're claiming their true targets or lying about it (as murderers or as cult constructing elaborate fake claims). Or maybe a murderer who fails with their first kill is more likely to try to come back to the town because they know that there are probably other murderers "ahead" of them (closer to their wincon)?

[elvis_knits]

I know, I keep flashing back to Elli saying somehting like: ANY OTHER FOOLS WHO CHOSE STALK AND REALIZE THEIR MISTAKE, CLAIM NOW.

Elli said it multiple times. If Sly changed his mind D1, he should have said it then.

Ell was pushing a game breaking scheme. Do I need to repeat my feeling about game breaking schemes?

Him claiming reformed murderer had nothing to do with the breaking plan.

[elvis_knits]

Seriously though, if anyone commits a murder, I will lynch you.

E_K, why are you not after Chaco?

I'm less worried about him than some other people actually. He murdered startransmission, who had 3 insanities (which is like guaranteed scum, so I'm glad he's dead). And Chaco did it last night. And someone who had intended to go murderer would have been on stalk last night. So it does seem that Chaco went the "vig" route here.

I still don't condone this behavior, but I have to evaluate it on a case-by-case basis. I'm not that upset about it because it looks like he killed scum, and the timing is off for a player who intended to go murderer. I'm not thrilled with rampant vigilantee-ism because I think it's likely to screw us. But I'm not going to lynch Chaco blindly when it looks like he's not scum for the reasons I just mentioned.

[elvis_knits]

I'm sorry if this is a stupid question, but why are we doubling up on the graves? It seems like that makes it easier for people to not rob a grave without us knowing, especially if they're cult.

[elvis_knits]

[mrow]Player[col]N0[col]N1[col]N2[col]Explanation/Notes[col]Insanities Adel/Hayker[col]Noise:Yes Ward:No[col]Rezzed by Plum [col]Laundered[col]VP failed ward/Ani stalked but did not kill/kunkstar(drench) stalk-murder failed[col]1 - due to rez (twitchy) Magua(Amished)[col]Noise:Yes Ward:No[col]Noise:No [col]?[col]?[col]?

CSL(Col.Cathart)

[col]Noise:Yes Ward:No[col]Murdered/rezzed [col]-lynched-[col]Elli stalked-murdered/failed[col]2 (expected cult) dramonic[col]Noise:Yes Ward:No (warded by chaco)[col] Noise:No [col]Noise: No[col]?[col]? DGB[col]Noise:Yes Ward:No (warded by elvis)[col]Noise:yes/Rezzed elvis [col]Noise:Yes (fetish) /Rezzed elvis[col]?[col]1 from fetish Ellibereth[col]Stalked CSL[col] Murdered CSL [col]Search Forensics kit[col]?[col]Atleast 2

Iecerint

[col]Noise:Yes Ward:No [col] Murdered [col] - [col](not yet flipped)[col]0 iLord[col]Noise:Yes Ward:No [col] Rezzed Phate [col]Noise:Yes[col]?[col]0

Phate

[col]Noise:Yes Ward:No [col] Cult target/Rezzed [col]Cult Kill[col]? [col]1 (presumably due to being rezzed)

Sajin

[col]Noise:Yes Ward:No [col] Murdered [col] - [col]Flipped Investigator[col]0 Plum/Sarag [col]Noise:Yes Ward:No [col]Rezzed Adel/Hayker[col]Noise:Yes(fetish)[col]Has like 2 posts[col] 1 from fetish

Katy/Seacore

[col]Noise:Yes Ward:No[col] Murdered [col] - [col]?[col] 0 vikingfan[col]Noise:Yes Ward:No [col]Noise:No Ward:no[col]Noise:Yes Ward:No[col](Commune?)[col]1 - Aversion (elvis) Animorperv[col]Stalked Adel/Hayker[col]Robbed grav/Searched Forensics kit [col]No actions due to too many II's[col] ?[col]3 kunkstar/Drench[col]Stalked Adel/Hayker[col] Murdered Adel/Hayker [col]Occult books[col]Claims Drench went murderer but kunk went back to investigator[col]2 taboo launder, twitchy Evilsnail[col]Noise:No Ward:No [col]Noise:No Ward:No [col]Noise:No Ward:No [col]?[col]0 rewq/faraday[col]Noise:No Ward:No[col] Forensic kit [col]Checked ANi (not bloody)[col]?[col]0

Nico

[col]Noise:Yes Ward:No[col] Lynched D1 [col] -[col]Dead cult yay![col]0 Semioldguy[col]Noise:No Ward:No [col]Noise:Yes [col]Noise:Yes[col]?[col]0 SLy[col](Noise:No Ward:No) Stalk AMished/Magua [col]Noise:Yes[col]Noise:Yes Commune Magua[col]Stalked Amished, then thought better of it, wants to go legit?[col]2 - Compulsion, Hallucination

Startransmission

[col]Noise:No Ward:No [col] ?[col]Murdered[col]?[col] 3 VP[col]Noise:Yes Ward:Yes(Adel) Warded by Wicked [col]Noise:Yes[col]Noise:No Ward:No[col]Ward on Adel failed N1 due to wicked warding him[col]0 Chaco[col]Noise:Yes Ward:Yes(Dram)[col]Stalk Startransmission[col]Murdered startransmission[col]?[col] 2 elvis[col]Noise:Yes Ward:Yes (DGB)[col]Noise:yes Searched:Rez Kit[col]Noise:Yes(Fetish) Rezzed(somebody that wasn't targetted)[col]?[col]1 - taboo launder wicked[col]Noise:Yes Ward:Yes(VP)[col]Noise:No[col]Noise:No[col]?[col]0

[elvis_knits]

I'm sorry if this is a stupid question, but why are we doubling up on the graves? It seems like that makes it easier for people to not rob a grave without us knowing, especially if they're cult.

If we double rob, and someone doesn't rob, then the other person who robbed gets equipment, thus revealing that someone didn't rob.

So if two people rob one grave, nobody gets equipment?

What if the person didn't have equipment anyway? We can't us that as a check. For instance, Startransmission prob doesn't have equipment. In order for him to get 3 insanities, he was doing evil things instead of searching.

[elvis_knits]

Hey I want to post my scum/town list. Is that okay? I normally do that in every game but is there any reason why the mechanics in this game prohibit it?

[elvis_knits]

Town:
ilord
vikingfan
evilsnail
rewq
VP
Chaco (watch out Rambo)
elvis
wicked
Ani (see below)

Netherworld:
Hayker(Adel)
Magua(amished)
Plum
SoG

People claiming reformed murderers (distrust):
Elli

Ani

(despite him being reformed murder and my general distrust of this category, I think Ani has to be town. Confirmed insanity D1 makes him not cult. Loss of action last night makes it pretty hard for him to be a murderer)
Sly
Kunkstar/Drench

Almost definitely scum:
Dram
DGB

My thinking is that most of the people claiming 0 insanities seem town to me anyway, so I am fairly confident they are town. As the game goes on, spot-checks using occult books would be good to verify that these people aren't lying. And as always, use regular scum hunting to see if people seem scummy. For instance, ilord and evilsnail are prob town to me due to interactions with Nico.

SoG said something about it being possible for cultists to have 0 insanities. I think that is possible, if the cult has designated only certain people to do ritual, and certain people are only crafting/sending fetishes/rezzing. So we should keep this in mind. However, if we pick off the cultists doing the ritual, the others are forced to participate and start gaining insanities.

[elvis_knits]

I'm thinking that Dram and DGB are likely murderers. I mean, they could be cult too, but I haven't seen a lot of connections between them and other players, no real cooperation or anything. And they seem to be trying to fly under the radar.

I think that Elli may be a murderer. Possibly cult, but I think probably murderer/investigator.

I think SoG might be a murderer. He doesn't seem to be playing cooperatively with others. However, his 0 insanity claim is verifiable. If he has any insanities, he will need death. If he doesn't, he could always be cult, but I would feel better about him.

I think that Kunkstar/Drench is cult. And I think the way that Hayker/Adel, Plum, Magua, are backing them up suggests they might all be cult. I also think Sly is cult, and I think the way elli and plum are calling sly town is suspect. This little group of incestuous claims/irrational support of each other represents the people I most suspect to be cult.

[elvis_knits]

The people I'd like to see graverob are Dram and DGB for sure, and one of Elli or Sog.

[elvis_knits]

You were my rezz target last night, Magua. I thought you were town, and I thought you would be a good cult target. I didn't think about cult going for phate twice in a row like that, and I knew you had heard noise N0. (OBV my thinking on you has changed and I am much more suspicious of you).

So, you might be a target of a murderer too, I don't know. But my rezz alone would account for your noise.

[elvis_knits]

Aww. I feel so much love in this game!

<3

[elvis_knits]

*I* rezzed elvis.

This is a disturbing coincidence/overlap. Could Magua be hiding behind my previously claimed actions?

Elvis already got a fetish, so no.

I don't understand this comment.

iLord, are you making a dig at DGB saying she gave me the fetish?

[elvis_knits]

So you want a lynch right this minute?

[elvis_knits]

I wasn't voting Sly because I thought he was getting pretty close to lynch and I didn't want to do it before hearing from people and sorting anything that needed to be sorted. I don't want to slow down the game or anything, but I don't see why not voting Sly RIGHT NOW is like some huge sin (even if he is scum). But, whatever. Note away, I guess.

[elvis_knits]

viking, what are your thoughts on my scum list? I was a little iffy on Magua, but after hearing him claim to rezz me I started to feel better about him. Which is pretty irrational, I know.

Just wondering where you are in terms of people you think might be cult and/or murderer.

[elvis_knits]

one question I had for you EK...I assume netherworld is cultist? I wasn't sure what to make of that.

I don't have time now to do a whole player by player analysis but I'm still very suspicious of DGB, kunk (not altogether buying that explanation), and dramonic. Farther down my suspicion list (depending on what the bodies turn out to be still) are players like Elli. Magua I'm ambiguous on. I don't think he's murderer but I could see him being cult.

Partly I'm unsure too because if start is murderer and Sly turns up murderer, then we may have only one more murderer left. If that's the case, DGB is my prime suspect due to her wanting out of robbing duty (the other 3 robbers were all fine with it).

If you have any questions, let me know. But I agree with something like 90% of your list, pending further information.

Netherworld started out as a sort of vaguely scummy category for me. Basically I did not feel those people were town. But I do tend to lean cult on those people also. It is basically my "scummy/lean cult" category.

I've spent a lot of time trying to figure out how to tell cult from murderers. And I'm not sure exactly how to do it because I can see them behaving in more than one way. There are so many variables to consider. I am particularly interested in all the "reformed murderers." Another thing I was thinking is that murderers will have the highest insanities. They get one each night. Cultists, iirc, only gain insanities from ritual, not crafting or passing fetishes. So it will be easier for them to blend in count-wise, especially if only certain members of the cult are doing ritual.

I keep thinking there will be certain rules to catching scum in this game if I can just write everything down and think through all the combinations, but it really is very complex, and I think we have to look at each claim and see if it makes sense for the player with their other behavior. I think there are a number of things wrong with sly's claim, and I hope we are right about him being scum because that will make me feel good because the number of scum seems very high right now and it's a little daunting.

If sly is telling the truth about 2 insanities, he may very well be cult. Because a murderer will have 3 by now (I think). A cultist who did two rituals will have 2. I am hoping that Sly covered his 2 cult insanities with this reformed murderer claim. Otherwise, I guess he could be a murderer who is lying about insanities? The possibilities are endless... or atleast it seems like that to me.

[elvis_knits]

I really don't understand the kunkstar thing. If it was just that he forgot twitchy, he could have twitched and revoted, no? And Dramonic picked it up right away?

ALSO... I just realized something about Dramonic.

He says he investigated Magua innocent (with occult books). So he took Aversion on Magua.

If he KNOWS Magua is innocent, why did he say this:

Also, I dig what EK is putting down about kunk possibly being cult. If one of the cult members was in SA1, they definitely could have advised him to claim he switched back from murderer. The pieces just don't add up for him.

This is what is now making me wonder about Magua... because Magua was Amished who voted Evilsnail for voting Nico. And Magua was the one who brought up that this change-your-choice-of-insanity thing is possible because it happened in SA1. AND Magua was cult in SA1. I think he was the last alive. So he knows his shit.

So... yesterday I really liked a lot about of what Magua was saying. I thought he was like superTown^TM. But this new Drench-AMished-Nico connection has me a little scared that Magua could totally be pulling the strings in a bid to save kunkstar.

Another thing I don't like about the kunkstar story is that he says Drench took Taboo launder N0. But Drench never voted his whole time in this game which seems like evidence that he had a voting insanity he was trying to hide. And it's hella convenient that kunkstar is bloody and will continue to be bloody because he can't launder. Cover story much?

Am I being paranoid?

no you're not. THen again I'm a bit of a conspiracy theorist

I outline a conspiracy theory about Magua possibly being scum and Dramonic's reaction is to tell me that I am not paranoid. This was a perfect time for him to say, "Magua is innocent," or atleast not agree with my theory. THIS IS COMPLETELY INCONSISTENT WITH HIS CLAIM.

*BULLSHIT ALERT*

[elvis_knits]

I'm slightly concerned with scum hiding night actions better since EVERYONE is gaining an insanity. They can be like "yeah my insanity is from graverobbing!" when it's totally from murdering or ritual.

But I guess it's worth it if we find cult that can't take aversion on another member. If this works even a little bit, we get two cultists (one that couldn't take aversion on the other). And catching two cultists would be huge.

What are the odds of having no cult next to each other? Because that would suck balls.

Or maybe even that might help us in some way? If you're a math person perhaps there's something we could figure out with sets?

[elvis_knits]

Eh, well, wicked... personally I wasn't suspicious of VP very much at all. Some of the things you are saying, like he's not leading the town as much as you have seen him lead... *might* be true. I can sort of see what you're saying. I have seen VP run a town (when he's town) and he's a powerful force. And I think he might be sitting back a little this game, now that you bring it up. But I don't know how huge the difference is.

I have thought VP is town, but I know I can be wrong, so if you see something you think is scummy, I think it should be discussed. However, he is claiming 0 insanities, which is verifiable. If he has 0 insanities, he isn't a murderer, and it's unlikely he is cult. Possible, but unlikely.

That's my take on it.

[elvis_knits]

I think this day is ready to go to night.

It seems the plana are...

1)AVERSION PLAN

IF you get an insanity tonight, you MUST take aversion to the person below you on this list:

VP Baltar
semioldguy
dramonic
Magua
DrippingGoofball
Ellibereth
evilsnail
rewq455
animorpherv1
Chaco
vikingfan
elvis_knits
Plum
Hayker
iLord
kunkstar7
Wickedestjr

I believe we are NOT forcing everyone to gain an insanity.

2)GRAVEROBBING PLAN

Elli robs Iec + Katy
Kunk robs Katy + Phate
DGB robs Phate + Start
Dramonic robs Sly + CSL

---

Anything to add?

If not, I will be hammering later today.

[elvis_knits]

Or maybe we are forcing everyone to gain an insanity?

It seems like we have a better shot at catching cult if we force everyone. Because let's say that only two cultists are near each other. The one above the other cultists will not do the ritual, will not claim any insanities, and we won't know shit.

However, we could do something like... only take aversion if you get an insanity tonight... and tomorrow night, any remainin people are forced to rob grave and get insanity? That way we would eventually catch the cultists.

I dunno. Maybe better to force people to take insanities tonight.

I'm torn.

Nobody hammer until we decide.

[elvis_knits]

Okay so let's force everyone to take an insanity.

[elvis_knits]

Okay so let's force everyone to take an insanity.

You are better than this EK. You are on the wrong track. Scum tells are screaming out and everyone just ignoring them focusing on the gamebreakers. That's exactly what the gamebreakers want.

I am NOT better than this!



In all seriousness, I do not intend on relying on any game-breaking strategy to to win this game. The aversion plan and the grave-robbing plan have the potential to do some damage to scum... but they won't break the game. I intend to rely on scum hunting also.

The problem with your claim, Sly, is that:
1)You are claiming you tried to go murderer (after not choosing that last game)
2)You are claiming you regretted your decision on D1, yet didn't claim until now (even though people like Ani and Elli claimed and were allowed to live and we specifically called for reformed murderers to claim).
3)You decided not to murder magua (I assume because you thought he was town), then you checked him with occult books (like you were suspicious of him).
4)You claimed noises for my chart BEFORE telling us you had hallucination. Were you just going to let people think you were being stalked/fetished when you have no idea if you are or not? This seems dangerously close to lying, to claim noises without telling us you have hallucination.

Just about the only thing that has me slightly nervous about the Sly lynch is that cult make up a pretty big voting block, so it can be easy for them to push a lynch. However, they couldn't do it yesterday! And Sly's claim really doesn't make sense.

[elvis_knits]

Actually, we probably shouldn't force everyone to take aversion as their next insanity. This is extremely dangerous.

In the event of an endgame, or even close to an endgame, it would become harder and harder and eventually near impossible to get any lynch. This would effectively force the town into a loss as not having a lynch means that an anti-town faction/member will almost surely be able to survive.

Forcing everyone to gain aversion gives good odds for the town losing.

TBH, I am not thrilled with having Plum below me on the list since I am suspicious of her.

[elvis_knits]

EK, 2 things, 1. you know I think different than most, just cause you think my thinking doesn't make sense to you, doesn't mean it doesn't to me, 2. I just took hallucination last night. Hallucinations has not yet affected the noises I had heard.

1)I agree that you tend to think a little differently, but I don't think you're irrational or illogical. You tend to make a certain kind of sense that I am not sure I see in your actions this game.
2)Okay. I didn't realize that.

[elvis_knits]

HEY...

D1: Lynch of Nicodemus the culty evilness.

Notice how the Iecerint wagon was smaller than Nico, but then gets larger before the Nico wagon makes a comeback. The swell of the Iecerint wagon is likely due to CULT trying to save Nico. Notice that CSL voted Iecerint in this pivotal time. I assume CSL is cult because he was rezzed and nobody claimed it (is this a fair assumption?) Dramonic also votes Iecerint in this pivotal time. I have previously thought Dram might be murderer... but this suggests more likely cult. Also of note, DGB was on the Nico wagon early but them moves off it to vote Startransmission -- this helps the Iecerint wagon get larger than the nico wagon in an indirect way.

Nicodemus

- 6 (evilsnail, Iecerint,

animorpherv1

, iLord,

Phate

, DrippingGoofball)
Iecerint - 3 (VP Baltar, elvis_knits, SlySly)

Nicodemus

- 5 (evilsnail, Iecerint, animorpherv1, iLord, Ellibereth)
Iecerint - 5 (VP Baltar, elvis_knits, SlySly,

Phate

, dramonic)
animorpherv1 - 2 (

startransmission

, DrippingGoofball)

Iecerint - 6 (VP Baltar, elvis_knits, SlySly,

Phate

, dramonic,

CSL

)

Nicodemus

- 4 (Iecerint,

animorpherv1

, iLord, vikingfan)

startransmission

- 3 (

Sajin

, Ellibereth, DrippingGoofball)

Iecerint - 6 (VP Baltar, elvis_knits, SlySly, dramonic,

CSL

,

animorpherv1

)

Nicodemus

- 5 (iLord, vikingfan, Katy, DrippingGoofball, semioldguy)

startransmission

- 4 (

Sajin

, Ellibereth, Iecerint, Phate)


ENDof day:

Nicodemus

- 11 (iLord, vikingfan, Katy, DrippingGoofball, semioldguy, VP Baltar, dramonic, Iecerint, elvis_knits,

animorpherv1

, Ellibereth)

startransmission

- 2 (

Sajin, Phate

)
Iecerint - 2 (SlySly,

CSL

)
Hayker - 1 (Wickedestjr)

animorpherv1

- 1 (

startransmission

)
Ellibereth - 1 (rewq455)
Katy - 1 (evilsnail)
evilsnail - 1 (Magua)
vikingfan - 1 (

Nicodemus

)

Not Voting - 4 (Drench, Plum, Chaco, Hayker)

[elvis_knits]

SHOOT...

No, this was the end of day VC:

Nicodemus

- 14 (iLord, vikingfan, Katy, DrippingGoofball, semioldguy, VP Baltar, dramonic, Iecerint, elvis_knits,

animorpherv1

, Ellibereth, Chaco,

Nicodemus, CSL

)

startransmission

- 2 (

Sajin, Phate

)
Iecerint - 1 (SlySly)
Hayker - 1 (Wickedestjr)

animorpherv1

- 1

(startransmission

)
Ellibereth - 1 (rewq455)
Katy - 1 (evilsnail)
evilsnail - 1 (Magua)

Not Voting - 3 (Drench, Plum, Hayker)

[elvis_knits]

I have previously thought that evilsnail was townie to the bone based on being the first person to vote Nico and because several people attacked him for voting Nico. The unvote of Nico during the Iecerint build is something I hadn't noticed. I think it is a point against him, but I still lean town on him.

Elli was also on Nico early but jumped off and only came back at the end.

[elvis_knits]

Sly, please post your scum list.

[elvis_knits]

Sly, even if dGB is scum, there's gotta be a ton more scum in this game. We've got prob 4-5 cultists(Nico was cult and I assume CSL is cult), and atleast 2 murderers (I assume startransmission was murderer).

Who else is scum besides DGB?

[elvis_knits]

If I'm beginning to think SlySly is town, who is the second lynch choice?

You or Dramonic.

[elvis_knits]

Did DGB DQ?

[elvis_knits]

Why do I feel like that was intentional?

[elvis_knits]

Why do I feel like that was intentional?

That is my take too, but I knew no one would listen to me.

I almost feel bad for you, Sly. However your claim story is still odd as hell.

[elvis_knits]

Why do I feel like that was intentional?

Same, but what benefits would there be for cult or a murderer to purposely lose a night action? Unless you are saying DGB is just playing really stupid town.

I don't know if there are any benefits except for not wanting to help the town/ go along with plans. Or... maybe if we decrease the kills tonight and we can point to the graverobbers, she makes a larger lynch pool for herself to swim in, and maybe she survives longer?

Or maybe she hasn't been paying enough attention to the thread (since everyone thinks she's scum), so she's not really trying any more?

I don't know.