Mini 954 ~ Mafia at the 11th Hour (Game Over!)

[VP Baltar]

Vote: Percy

Wanna fight?

[VP Baltar]

^ good posting

[VP Baltar]

VP Baltar, why are you posting in other games but not posting in this one?

Well, I did post here yesterday and nothing worth commenting on has happened since then...not sure what the issue is with that unless you need me to pop in here every three seconds to say something irrelevant while I post content in my other games that are actually moving forward.

Also, still waiting for Percy to answer if he wants to fight with me or not.

[VP Baltar]

Since Percy apparently is too chicken to even cower before my challenge.

Unvote, Vote: Nikanor

gogo awesome wagon.

[VP Baltar]

Jahudo, would you say you know what to look for to find Scumegranate? I'm not asking for details really, just a yes or no.

I agree that the inactivity here is a bit pitiful, but I'm still good with the awesome wagon for now.

[VP Baltar]

lol, Percy....I don't think I even want to know where you got that pic from. I surrender!

Unvote, Vote: TonyMontana

Why hello, scum! Why would think d3x was not serious? Do you have an issue with him questioning Nikanor's vote?

[VP Baltar]

As for response to dram/VP, I'm gonna pretend the question being "Tony - was that inquiry into the seriousness of d3x's question serious?" to which i say "No"

Oh, it wasn't? What was the point of that post then?

Maybe we've no reason to believe you're town?

What's your read on Tony at the moment?

[VP Baltar]

While I don't agree with Pom's methods, I am bothered by dramonic so I don't have too much of a problem with her vote. I do think dram could have been trying to test the bouyancy of the TM wagon without serious committment.

Yes. What Percy did is exactly what I have a tendency toward doing as scum: posting "Oh, I'll catch up!" and then not actually catching up until I get prodded again. If you want, I could give about five or six examples where I do this as scum.

What is your experience with Percy? Have you played with him as town before?

I think DDD's "vote for TM, maybe he'll get abilities!" took all the pressure out of the wagon, and Porkens jumped on for no other reason than the one DDD proposed. I think it was a scummy move (and a poor reason to put anyone at L-1).

So do you prescribe to the school that Porkens was trying to give TM a power and then take him out?

DDD, how serious IS your TM vote? Still like him now that the wagon's been deflated?

I think Nikanor is making too big of an issue over Percy taking ~10 hours to make his second post.

Agreed.

[VP Baltar]

I prefer red text for leading wagon.

[VP Baltar]

Hey Percy, let's go back to the Awesome Wagon.

Unvote, Vote: Nikanor

[VP Baltar]

Sup, chump. Get on the awesome wagon nao.

[VP Baltar]

Give me the short version of why it's so awesome and I just might. Is it the whole "hey I do this as scum" but he also does it as town or is it deeper than that?

lol, noooooooooooo.

It's the whole, "I'm going to attack people over BS" reasoning. His attacks of Percy and myself for lurking when we obv were not stink to high heaven, imo.

Especially when:

My experience with Percy is nil.

I mean, being a few pages in and calling out lurking on someone who says "I'll post as soon as possible" without knowing the person (because Percy does that ALL THE TIME in my experience) is pretty poor scumhunting, imo.

To answer Nik

What does it matter? Do you think that somehow impacts the validity of a point?

Yes, I think it very much impacts it. As I said above, saying "I'm busy, but you can expect a post soon." is pretty much par for the course with Percy. I guess you not knowing him gives you a bit of an excuse, but it's still a pretty poorly fashioned attack.

Again, I noticed that VP was posting elsewhere but not in this thread, so I pointed it out. I'm not pretending that it was a decisive point of evidence or anything, but certainly worthy of notice in my opinion.

The biggest issue was that you clearly weren't looking at context at all. I had just posted in this thread not that long ago and essentially nothing worth mentioning had happened here. Meanwhile, I do have other games that are much more advanced and actually require my attention. I'm not sure if you were just stirring shit to have a discussion going or actually believed the garbage you were saying.

You guys could lynch me, then I'd get ghost powers. I'd be fine with that.

How do you know you'd get powers after you die for sure? Seems to me like the mod was very vague about what would happen in terms of getting powers or even if they'd be useful.

What are your thoughts on Nikanor and Percy?

[VP Baltar]

Dramonic is my A+ #1 pick for scum for that "well maaaaybe your town and maaaaybe your not" business, but I'd lynch anyone today.

And again, pretty sure it states somewhere that not all powers are going to be useful, so this attitude of 'mislynches are ok because they'll get a power' doesn't really float for me.

Agree with d3x about your question dodging. I didn't ask who your number one pick is, I asked for your thoughts on Nikanor and Percy. Proceed.

[VP Baltar]

Conclusion: Awesome wagon is currently THE BEST. ARROOOOOOUND.

Told you. You should stop questioning my judgement! hmph

Though I might be willing to come over to dram if he keeps up this AWESOME active lurking.

[VP Baltar]

what's... that... thing in the front?

It's pretty straight forward really, though not compelling enough to make me want to lynch Porkens.

When did this turn into the Disturbing Image Thread? o.o; ~Vi

[VP Baltar]

DDD - Do you plan to play this game with your usual level of activity?

Pom, explain to me why the dramonic wagon is better than Awesome wagon?

Hey Tony, what's up? You don't seem to have much to say since attention turned away from you. What's the deal?

[VP Baltar]

I might be demanding this game because of the battery mechanic, DDD. I appreciate the extra effort.

I hear ya on Tony. We'll see if he actually has something relevant to say now that he's been called out.

[VP Baltar]

You're also active lurking.

[VP Baltar]

In fact, dram, since you've been on Nik since your random vote I'd like you to explain why you are on the wagon still and why you think he'd be the best lynch.

Also, who do you find suspicious outside of Nik?

[VP Baltar]

Porkens, why exactly do we need to rush to a night when the deadlines are already short enough as is?

DDD, in three sentences or less, tell me why I should switch from Nik to dramonic.

Tony- waiting and ready.

Agree that seraphim needs to post something of good substance before today is out.

[VP Baltar]

Porkens-your reasoning is stupid at best. Hurrying the day along does not pressure lurkers near as much as continuing the day and noting their lurking publically.

*As I refuted Pomegranate's points Niks behavior has not been scummy, his points may be incorrect but that doesn't correlate one to one with scummy.
*Are you sure this isn't just a case like F&E where a player made the mistake of attacking a player with connections and friends that leads to his demise.
*We cannot allow players to just coast through the game without even trying; as we both know allowing such behavior is a recipe for disaster.

*I'm not certain I agree. I do think Nik was reaching more than a bit. I can see where you are coming from, but I'm not certain.
* I don't understand what you are saying here.
*I agree and offing dram today isn't really a bad choice, but Nik isn't exactly present either. Perhaps if he was here posting I'd feel better about him, but lurking (after calling lurking a scumtell) is lynch worthy atm.

[VP Baltar]

Alright, I can see what you are saying now.

[VP Baltar]

Let me clarify then, do you think Nik is scum or you just want a night/give Nik an ability?

[VP Baltar]

ITT, we learn that TonyMontana works slave labor.

[VP Baltar]

Actually,

Unvote, Vote: TonyMontana

I think history has shown that DDD knows better than me early game and I don'tknow how comfortable I am being on a dramonic supported wagon at this point. Let's get some votes over here people.

[VP Baltar]

Oh godamnit.
Can we run me up to L-1 on the off-chance that I get a vig that we so very, very desperately need?
I mean seriously, two lurkers that pick up their prods and go back to lurking and one more that shuts up as soon as he gets wagoned.

I am not kidding. Nik and Tony and Sera can all burn, I don't care which one we lynch today, and I am absolutely in favor in any plan that can make them die faster. If someone else thinks they're at all likely to get a vig at L-1 say so and I'll help.

Unvote
Vote:Gammagooey

lol, and I should trust you why? Awfully presumptuous. I don't disagree that we need some awesome vig tonight, but I can think of at least three other players who are more pro-town to me than you are. I'll pass. Get on this lynch wagon.

[VP Baltar]

VP- If you want someone else to get an ability vote 'em and chances are I'll follow you if that's the reasoning for it. Although going hurr durr I don't trust you with L-1 magicz doesn't make a whole lot of sense given that if Nik has an L-1 ability you've already handed it away and forgotten about it.

Going 'hurr durr, I don't care who gets abilities and that should be the top priority' is really the dumb thing. Keep in mind that I'm not the one who put Nik at L-1 arbitrarily either. You and Porkens are the ones who have been pushing that very poor line of play, so you can keep me out of it. Lynching scum should always take priority and as far as I can see and DDD seems to be one of the few actually interested in that pursuit.

I mean, maybe we should just lynch Nik now that you guys have handed him an ability probably and he does at least stand somewhat of a chance of being scum in my book, but you trying to blame me for that is scummy.

[VP Baltar]

Nikanor is a lurker too, its not just Sera and Tony. I think Nik has the fewest posts among them. The Tony wagon is cool and all, but I want to see what he says in his catch-up post before I think about switching wagons.

I agree, but that seems to be true of all of them and I'm worried about them lurking through the rapidly approaching deadline. The rest of us need to organize ourselves and determine who would be the best choice today before we end up scrambling in the (cue creepy music) 11th Hour!

I'll ask you the same question I put to DDD, in three sentences or less why is the Nik wagon superior to Tony or dram?

[VP Baltar]

Fair enough.

Mod, is there any kind of deadline extension available for replacements in the 11th hour? (get used to the bad jokes, folks)

Maybe not an

extension

per se but I can be more nice with the battery. ~Vi

[VP Baltar]

@d3x - lol, no run-ons please! Alright, I'm giving one more day to our lurkers to come in here and give their reads/make a case why they shouldn't be lynched. If I still get nothing, then I'm coming back to Nik because that's the most viable wagon right now. I'm so annoyed at this game right now it's not even funny.

[VP Baltar]

I'm not blaming you for Nik being at L-1

Oh?

doesn't make a whole lot of sense given that if Nik has an L-1 ability

you've already handed it away and forgotten about it

Guess that was the royal you immediately following my post.

And I realize you weren't on the Nik wagon at the time he reached L-1, but that's not my problem. My problem is that both you and Porkens are far less concerned about scumhunting than you are about dishing out abilities and ending the day. I agree that if we're going to hand out abilities it should be to the most pro-town players (d3x/DDD), but I don't see any evidence of interest in that strategy in your play.

Let me phrase this a different way, do you think Nik is scum or not? Do you think Tony is scum or not? Do you think Seraphim is scum or not?

Tony replacing is and basically what I said was going to happen.

[VP Baltar]

you forgot about it?

I'm not sure why you think that.

And I would love to vote d3x with the intention of giving him an ability, but doing it a)without knowing if anyone will follow

I'm ok with this, though I think time constraints will limit us to doing it tomorrow.

And what's with you associating Porkens with me in all your posts responding to me? I do agree with him on giving out some abilities but my view on ending the day is pretty much the opposite of his.

Maybe it's not quite to his extent, but it's pretty close imo when you say:

I mean seriously, two lurkers that pick up their prods and go back to lurking and one more that shuts up as soon as he gets wagoned.

I am not kidding. Nik and Tony and Sera can all burn, I don't care which one we lynch today, and I am absolutely in favor in any plan that can make them die faster.

Having no preference for the lynch isn't ever going to sit well with me, especially when all you're doing is pushing lurkers. Don't get me wrong, I hate them not posting too, but differentiating between scummy lurking and town apathy is very important. Now we've seen that you actually do have some kind of preference for them, it underscores why I don't understand the 'whatever' mentality.

[VP Baltar]

Just a heads up, I have a lot of meetings today so I may not be able to post a reply post until I get home. Needless to say, Nik's "case" on me is poo poo. I need to look closely at the rest and see if he deserves to live or die for his promised content.

[VP Baltar]

Again, I wasn't attacking Percy for lurking, although I won't deny that I attacked you for lurking. Something about posting in other games but not this one set off bells for me.

I had posted in the previous 24 hours for crying out loud. I'm not sitting on this thread responding to every single post made. I don't know how you think posting the same day and making sure I'm caught up in my other games is somehow scummy.

Okay, and the fact that I called Percy out for that is scummy how? I don't know Percy; I didn't know that he does that all the time. Do you expect me to do meta research on every person in this game? Because if I see something as scummy, I'm bringing it up. I don't see why you're attacking me here, though. Me not knowing him gives me an excuse, yet I'm still scummy for it? How does that work out, exactly?

I said a "bit of an excuse", not that you get off scot free for it. It IS still somewhat scummy because you didn't give him ANY real time to post. I mean, I think that Tony's lurking is scummy but you didn't seem me jumping on him eight hours after his post saying he'd catch up after work. Life freaking happens and I think town is much more likely to give consideration to that than scum is.

This is a crappy reason to attack someone, especially since this seems to be the cornerstone of VP's attacks against me. I'll give a silver dollar to anyone who can find exactly where VP starts thinking I'm scummy. Because I looked in his iso, and I couldn't find it.

First, attacking your faux-looking scumhunting is not a crappy reason to attack you. Pretty sure I started thinking you were scummy back when I voted you and were asking you all those questions...I don't see how that is unclear. Finally, I think it's hilarious you think I'm the one coasting in this game when your best attack has been "OMG Percy didn't post for 10 hours". diescumdie.

He doesn't add anything new to what others say against me.

To quote a phrase, "dirty fucking liar". Did I say it right? Also, it's hard to add anything more than I did when you weren't posting in this thread for a good portion of the day.

Porkens just seems to be pushing whatever wagon is biggest. His play strikes me as something I'd see from a hidden Tarhalindur Survivor in this setup. I have no real read on Porkens.

lol, what?

You don't see the case on VP (and in fact imply you disagree), but you're commenting on the viability of a wagon? This is fluff and fence-sitting.

Yerp. I got the same reason from the Tony wagon comment as well. Jahudo, if you want a counter wagon why are you so tentatively trying to feel one out instead of just getting one going?

What are your thoughts regarding the possible alignment of Porkens? You have questioned his play and appear to be suspicious, but not even a hint of a vote in that direction, why?

Porkens definitely bothers me, but I've been more worried about Nik/Tony. I personally think the scum have a great deal of incentive to lurk in this game and AT LEAST one of them would be trying to take advantage of it. Additionally, Porkens sort of has a rep for shooting from the hip in my experience so I've been trying to differentiate if this is him just upping his recklessness or actually being scum.

This seems like it would be a delay tactic, beneficial to scum, because they can move their vote around more or less freely without ever having to settle on any suspicions to make a real vote. We should be voting scum, not people we think might be town. We shouldn't create a situation where a necessary last minute scramble for a lynch target is more likely to occur.

I don't see how that plan would take more than one or two RL days to orchastrate. Additionally, nothing about the plan prevents people from scumhunting at the same time.

Semi-Have you played with Porkens before? He's certainly not the towniest person around but not caring about who gets lynched day 1 is pretty much par for the course for him, he did pretty much the same thing in Mafia Reverberation early on.

Just based on my recollection, I think his apathy here and lack of actual scumhunting is much higher. Also, do you have any experience with porkens apart from that game?

Which means the only person who's hammer you'd have any reason to fear is VP Baltar's.

====[ ]

Ready and waiting!

[VP Baltar]

I believe that long day ones are detrimental to the town.

Two week days = long? LOL

[VP Baltar]

Hi, Cobalt. Welcome. Don't have RAGING STUPIDITY with me this game.

Porkens' vote on Seraphim when Nik is at L-1 is LOL. Also, my hammer finger is getting itchy so if people actually have something worthwhile to say now is the time to say it. I may be semi-V/LA this weekend, so I'd prefer if I sent this game to night no later than Friday morning (sorry, I don't trust anyone else to come through). Cobalt, do you actually plan to read the game before deadline is up today?

[VP Baltar]

Blerg, you're right. My apologies then.

Unvote, Vote: Nikanor

That's better. I think we can both win this way.

[VP Baltar]

Nikanor lynch pls.

Opposed.

Hush now. We want blood.

[VP Baltar]

Hey hudo, you missed my question earlier:

Jahudo, if you want a counter wagon why are you so tentatively trying to feel one out instead of just getting one going?

Also, what changed on Page 10/11 that you don't care about about a counter wagon anymore?

[VP Baltar]

Despite the flip, DDD still looks town to me. d3x is all but confirmed at this point. dram is not going to be on my lynch list any time soon either.

I think Jahudo or SOG are my top picks for a Nik buddy atm, but I need to do some rereading.

[VP Baltar]

@dram - where are your town vibes from jahudo coming from?

[VP Baltar]

Vote: Jahudo

I still have a case to make, but I'm really having trouble finding the time. I'm going to see if I can sneak a few minutes this afternoon. People seriously need to look at his reactions as the day closed yesterday. The way he was trying to encourage counter wagons without committing himself is really scummy and looks like he was trying to bail Nik out. Needless to say, I think a speed wagon on SOG with little discussion is a crappy idea even if he does look suspicious.

[VP Baltar]

lol, Jahudo OMGUS' me before I've even made a proper case? Scum found. People need to get on this wagon immediately.

I had no intention of voting VP, and I wasn't trying to start a wagon by calling out Player X, because I wasn't arguing for a specific alternative. All you can say is that I was waiting for an opportunity to happen, and you have to argue that is something I would logically do as scum that late in the day when I was previously digging myself further into the Nikanor wagon by questioning him and helping others vote him.

Uh, yes that's exactly my point. You didn't care what the alternative really was, just that it would distract from the Nikanor wagon close to the deadline. Let us not forget:

If the deadline occurs before anyone reaches a majority vote, the game moves to Night and No Lynch occurs. Some mods lessen the requirements to lynch at deadline. I do not. A lynch will always require a full majority of the players' consent.

You being coy about distracting from the Nik lynch a day or so before the deadline is quite obvious to me even if you think you were being careful about it.

You put the ownership of your Tony vote on DDD here.

Except the part where I had voted Tony seriously waaaay earlier in the day. It's not like that suspicion came out of nowhere. Meanwhile, you spent a lot of the day yesterday talking about Seraphim and Tony but never switched your vote once. Let's talk about ownership there if you really want.

You also place your dramonic suspicion over Nikanor indirectly. If you thought Nikanor was scummier, dramonic's involvement on his wagon shouldn't make you switch votes unless it was to dramonic. But you vote Tony. I don't understand that logic.

I don't understand your logic, actually. I never said that I thought dram was scummier, just that his play was giving me second thoughts of the wagon on Day 1. His vote had been on that same wagon since the RVS, which I questioned him over. So, I fail to see how in your mind that means that he is where I should have been voting.

Explain why you were bailing Nikanor out here:

Nice rhetoric there scumbag.

Nik isn't exactly present either. Perhaps if he was here posting I'd feel better about him, but lurking (after calling lurking a scumtell) is lynch worthy atm.

Sounds like if Nik posted more, you'd move on to dramonic or a lurker.

First, you win the award for most out of context quote ever. For those not looking back for this, I was actually explaining to DDD why I wasn't leaving the Nikanor wagon. Here is the actual exchange:

*We cannot allow players to just coast through the game without even trying; as we both know allowing such behavior is a recipe for disaster.

*I agree and offing dram today isn't really a bad choice, but Nik isn't exactly present either. Perhaps if he was here posting I'd feel better about him, but lurking (after calling lurking a scumtell) is lynch worthy atm.

So, as you can see I was clearly explaining to DDD why my vote was just fine right where it was on Nik.

Second, I was partially baiting Nik to see if he would post shortly after that as a way to get "town cred" from me. After lurking so much, if he had posted within a few hours of that post I would have strongly felt him scum even more than I already did. There's more than one way to skin a cat.

[VP Baltar]

Yo, dram,

Jahudo is 101% Awesome wagon redux. Bring the D crew over to my badass party.

Sincerely,

VP Baltar

[VP Baltar]

You were drunk, let's leave it at that.
@VP: Jahudo doesn't sound like a fun wagon to hang into.

Do explain.

Full reply to 'hudo probably coming tonight when I have some time.

[VP Baltar]

Whut?
I have a strong gut read on Jahudo, may be due to what he posted, I'd need to check. Meanwhile, explain the quote, I've no clue what it's refering to

I think you should definitely check your read on him because Jahudo is good at looking townish on the surface, but his motivation seems off to me in key places.

The quote was me just saying that I'd put a reply wall up to Jahudo tonight. Unfortunately, we had a 9-hour, island-wide power outage today so I'm going to postpone it in lieu of now being able to actually finish some of my work.

You're in luck! We have some very appetizing wagon options available today. Perhaps I could interest you in one of the premium selections, a very fine and brand new Percy-wagon. It's the best wagon on the market right now. I can put you in this wagon today for the low down-payment of a single vote. Whaddya say?

Why is this a good wagon again?

You (VP) bated Nik to see if he would try to get some town cred from you, but you mind that he mentioned other things?

I don't think I understand this correctly. Can you explain it differently for me?

Also, looking at your case and Jahudo's response, I have to stick with him. It makes more sense to me I think.

I haven't even really made my case proper yet. Just pointed out some of the brief high points.

I'd like to hear more from Cobalt, DDD and Percy.

[VP Baltar]

I was hoping to get that Jahudo response tonight.

Sorry, that power outage really f-ed with my whole day in a week that I was already too short of time in. Oh well. Perhaps today will be better. I also started on my Jahudo case a few days ago, but it's dormant in my notes atm. Hopefully I can finish that before the weekend so people will actually start to listen to me.

[VP Baltar]

VPB's response doesn't change my opinion of him.

Somehow I'm not surprised.

Where was it obvious? The part where you asked me why the Nik wagon was superior to dramonic, and I replied by saying dramonic looked town? (214) Or the part where I said I wouldn't switch to Tony unless he posted more things that were scummy? (also 214) Or the part where I said I didn't see the case on VP Baltar and wasn't going to vote for him based on it? (230)

Let's look at what you said about Tony directly before that:

Side note: I feel that Tony has been lurking and acting scummy when he's actually posted, so I'd vote him before Seraphim. And Nik wagon is still good.

Which I read as you slowly creeping your way toward the Tony wagon. Then when you add your bit about wanting to see Tony post before you think about switching I saw a continuation of that hesitency. With us moving toward deadline at that point and you confessing that multiple bandwagons is a good thing, I just fail to see how you as town would have so much hesitency.

Same with your Post 230 when you say:

I don't see the case on VP yet

, but I'm interested to see how VP responds and if Nik elaborates.

First, I have no idea what you saw in Nik's case that even made you interested because it was complete crap. Second, the bolded implies that you could be swayed that way (presumably based on my response) just over a day from deadline. You were also touching on Seraphim all day without serious action (voting). You were looking for deadline shennanigans to start up if you ask me.

It's true that I might've switched to a Tony wagon, provided he not replace out and instead kept posting scummy stuff. Same with Seraphim. I was feeling good about a Nik lynch but that doesn't mean we couldn't have lynched another scum in that time frame. Look at Mafia Reverberation's day 1 deadline. Alot of movement in the final few hours and we managed to lynch a scum (Rhinox) while letting another slip out of L-1 (Orbots).

Objection!

*cue Vi-cool Ace Attorney graphics*

Mafia Reverberation is not relatable in anyway to the circumstances in this game because the lynching threshold was only four votes and there were multiple double voters in play and we could lynch multiple people in a day. I don't see how you are even drawing a comparison between that and a seven vote straight lynch.

That's true, but you also decreased your interest the Tony wagon by saying dramonic might have been trying to opportunistically hop on it.

Don't see how these are related again. I can actually be suspicious of multiple people at the same time, even if they are attacking each other.

After you unvoted, you kept asking Tony to contribute more (160, 163, 188) and vote him 3 days before deadline when in that timeframe Tony had said nothing new. You were voting because of DDD, and you were asking others to join your wagon.

The point was to prod Tony toward contributing SOMETHING. I would argue that DDD and I voting for him was what actually got him to replace out, which actually made me think him more town. That was my reason for voting, not simply DDD. Obviously, I can't make a statement like that in thread or the vote becomes meaningless. This is, of course, is best view opposite of your talk without voting, which did nothing.

Meanwhile, you spent a lot of the day yesterday talking about Seraphim and Tony but never switched your vote once. Let's talk about ownership there if you really want.

And you're point being? I said I wasn't going to vote Seraphim or Tony unless they did something to look scummier than Nikanor.

Well, they were all doing the same thing at that point, which was nothing. The point is that you were being a wimp about it and wouldn't move your vote. It just reads as too safe to me. The vibe I kept getting yesterday was that if enough momentum moved away from Nik you'd be there in a flash, but you didn't want the responsibility of the one starting it, which of course doesn't look so great to me in light of the flip.

What was every and all reasons for you unvoting Nikanor and voting Tony?

Number one reason was to try pressuring Tony into posting and actually have some discussion instead of just waiting out the deadline. The game was really stagnating for me because of the lurking trio of Tony-Nik-Seraphim. As I said in my reply to you after I voted, I felt it was time we seriously started to figure out which of that trio. Frankly, I'm glad that I made a final attack on Tony because it cleared things up for me. Hell, I even ended up having to abandon the charade and state my clear intentions in post 217 because I wanted some kind of progress to be made before deadline:

Alright, I'm giving one more day to our lurkers to come in here and give their reads/make a case why they shouldn't be lynched. If I still get nothing, then I'm coming back to Nik because that's the most viable wagon right now. I'm so annoyed at this game right now it's not even funny.

True, but you also let on that your vote was mostly, if not entirely, based on his activity level. If he posted more, you WOULD feel better. Not might, would. That's a short step to orchestrating a lurker lynch of dramonic, who you were painting as questionable for a while.

No. Keep reaching though. All people have to do is look at the quotes in context to see the meaning. It's quite clear my Nik vote wasn't moving to dram.

Sorta like a gambit?

No, not really. But this is part of how I play the game. In my experience, making direct demands of people doesn't always get a desired result. Some people think that a town player should always be upfront with their intentions and be as transparent as possible, but I don't think that approach always yeilds the best results. There are times when town needs to play things close to their chest for the greater good.

I view a gambit as much more elaborate than simply keeping intentions to oneself.

[VP Baltar]

So when you make your case I'll read it and give it some thought. How about that?

No problem.

Mmm, in all honestly I might side with Jahudo against VPB here. I think VPB’s on-again, off-again relationship with the Nik and Tony wagons is odd to say the least, but it really only works as scum behavior if Tony/SOG is town so yet another reason to go for that lynch to see whether this criticism is valid at all or not.

What exactly about what he is saying looks good to you? I never really had an "off" relationship with the Nik wagon so much as I was one of the few actually trying to keep discussion moving yesterday.

[VP Baltar]

^I do agree with this, as I have no clue what the Percy vote is all about.

@Jahudo, before I reply to your wall (though I will try to cut it down since I don't want to be THAT guy), can you explain what you mean by this:

I agree. Maybe we were both doing this yesterday.

Do you feel we were both keeping things to ourselves yesterday? If so, what part of your play was as such? If I'm not understanding something correctly, then I'd like to figure it out so I can know if I'm wasting my time or not.

Also, people who are not Jahudo and I should also be scumhunting. Just saying.

[VP Baltar]

I really wish you would have just explained it that way in the first place, Jahudo.

I'm less enamoured with this debate, atm. I'll still reply to what is necessary from the last big post, but I'm ready to look at some alternative directions.

@ Cobalt - your scum meta seems to be lurking, which you're doing now. What are your thoughts on the game, atm?

@ Porkens - You've really been a bit of a non-entity this game, which is not what I'm really used to from you. Normally I see you as a leader, even if that leadership is chaotic at times. Are you not feeling motivated to play this game?

@ Pom - why are you not voting someone yet?

[VP Baltar]

Alright. And happy B-day, DDD.

[VP Baltar]

It seems to me that he admits that Jahudo is scumhunting (not that scum don't pretend to scumhunt, but that's beside the point).

Well, I don't think it's beside the point. If someone looks scummy, then they look scummy, but I certainly can't say Jahudo isn't

trying

which is more than a lot of people. Now that I have a bit better understanding of what he was going for yesterday with his counterwagon business, I feel better about him.

In fact,

Unvote, Vote: Cobalt

I still think there are other avenues we can pursue and we don't need to take an SOG-lynch as a foregone conclusion.

I'm not sure what to think of SOG's power. Using it isn't really going to be telling about his alignment, but could potentially be informative about whoever he gives it to. Maybe. I need to think about it.

Also, this is going to be my last post until Sunday afternoon. I'd like to be greeted by lots of posts from the quiet folks when I finally come back.

[VP Baltar]

VP - sorry for my non-entity-ness. I won't make excuses. It is what it is.

Actually, I'd like some excuses. You were pretty active in our other ongoing (including lynching my player slot ), so what's the deal with this game?

[VP Baltar]

Worst case scenario use it and whoever gets it may decide to end you anyways.
It'd at least prove you're not BSing us.

And what does the town gain by proving he's not lying about the ability? As I said before, I think that the ability would say more about the person who receives it than it does about SOG.

..so do you actually think VP Baltar is/was town playing something close to his chest?
(The point is, identifying a similarity in your goals with someone else is kinda weird when you're voting for them).

Yer. Jahduo, was it only after I brought up how I was playing yesterday that you saw this similarity or was it before?

Still haven't gotten around to a Porkens meta-analysis

You can look at the oft-quoted Mafia Reverberation, Pale Moon Risin', Star Control I or the ongoing Star Control II game for my own personal background with Porkens. I think in Mafia Reverb and both the Star Control games Porkens was hella more active and actually scumhunting. I'm not sure how Jahudo is comparing his performance in Reverb to here, but oh well. I would say Porkens' play in Pale Moon was a little more similar to here, but in that game he was a dayvig and was trying to stay under the radar so he didn't get NK'ed. That being said, I'd even contest in that game that he was still actively scumhunting because he shot two scum (iirc) back-to-back before dying. Though he wasn't saying much, he was clearly reading the game closely. In this game, I'm just getting the vibe that he's following popular opinion.

The case against me is largely nothing I as a player am responsible for and it is largely based around the way Tony Montana and Nikanor both acted (neither of which I have any answers for you other than to say that I think the case is dumb and not based on scum tells or real scum hunting at all). Which makes me feel that neither I nor my ability will be able to prevent the lynch until the majority of the game pulls their heads from their rear-ends and starts looking at things that are there instead of things that aren't.

That's not entirely true. You were against the Nik wagon yesterday for largely unexplained reasons, weren't you?

[VP Baltar]

Well, hey, this isn't philosophy class. I only have what I can read. I think your opposition to Nik's wagon is the heart of your wagon or do you not believe that's the case?

[VP Baltar]

Happy with my vote.

[VP Baltar]

Can you explain to me how you make sense of Nikanor's case on Seraphim being a bus?

Eh, I get what you're saying but it looks pretty innocuous to me. The case was never really pushed too hard like I would expect with scum trying to bail themselves out. That being said, it is kind of hard to think of a scum's motivation on page 4 to attack a buddy instead of a town member.

The leading wagon at the time was Tony...which does make some sense as to why Nik wouldn't join that to compete with his own wagon. It was still very early in the game though regardless of how you look at it. I think that make determining reasoning more challenging than if it had been a case closer to deadline. Then I would almost certainly think Cobalt is town.

I'm less certain about the SOG lynch than other people, but it's not a BAD lynch for today I guess. I'd prefer Cobalt or maybe even Porkens (though that's a toss up with SOG), but I somehow doubt that is going to happen at this point.

[VP Baltar]

Um, is there a reason Jahudo's name is still black?

[VP Baltar]

Um, is there a reason Jahudo's name is still black?

Yes, it has to do with my last-shot power. And I guess anyone who would have gotten a power at L-1 have gotten theirs too.

Um...ok.

[VP Baltar]

oh, derr.

[VP Baltar]

This is odd. So Jahudo and Percy both need to vote?

[VP Baltar]

I think Vi edited the vote count in response to a clarification PM I sent after receiving my innate ability. I was wondering if it explained my name was in black, if I could vote and if Percy could vote me. Yes to all three, which meant the vote count was incorrect because a majority of 2 votes is 2, not 1, and we went from L-1 to L-2.

I'm going to take a wild guess at it and say this may have been a mod boo boo. It may have been after the fact that she realized a power to lynch anyone at L-1 technically should unleash everyone's 11th hour ability. Could have been a compensation to balance that I guess.

I'm not sure what to think about DDD.

And Things Proceed to Get Weirder

"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."

Guess who said that

Nikanor, either at L-1 or after death, got a power that allowed him to give a boost to someone in the form of a passive ability. He chose his scumbuddy Jahudo. Now that the existence of the ability has become public knowledge, Jahudo is claiming that semioldguy's ability caused it. However, it has now been mod confirmed that this is not the case.

Of course, this is a good point and I could be completely wrong about the above. hmm.

I'm going to go take a long walk and think about this some more.

lol, something about the image of Percy by a lake side skipping stones and thinking about mafia strikes me as hilarious.

Got my power a couple hours after Nik hit L-1.

So you are reaching the conclusion they are related then, correct?

Re: your ability, I don't really care what it is, but I would like to know your personal opinion of whether it will be helpful today or not. If no, I think we should just take you out of the equation for now.

I tend to agree with porkens that SOG looks less suspicious for using his ability. It basically guaranteed his death either today or tomorrow, which is a pretty ballsy move for scum to take after having a buddy lynched on Day 1. I think Cobalt is a good option.

Also, I'm in the camp Jahudo should explain the conclusion of his post 442.

[VP Baltar]

Plus Cobalt is just lurking like I've heard he does more often as scum than town. Does anyone know if this is accurate? I've seen him be active as scum, but only after he got under alot of pressure. He might be trying to coast.

This is what I have been trying to figure out honestly. I played with him in Mafia of Order and Last Man Standing where he was town and he was much more active. However, recent games I have seen him in he has been lurking his ass off (including the scum game you're referencing), so I'm trying to figure out if he's actually that unaware of his own meta/suckiness as scum or if he's actively trying to change his meta to super-lurker...kind of like DDD on steroids. I guess the only real way to tell is a flip.

I am in favor of Debonair Danny DePietro stepping in if he needs to.

And what circumstance do you think he would need to intervene for?

I would be in favor of Debonair Danny DePietro stepping in and taking over Percy's vote if needed over Jahudo's (though it likely won't be needed since it is probable that it will achieve the same end result).

I'm in favor of the opposite of this. Percy looks much more town to me.

[VP Baltar]

Uh, you definitely seemed to be implying that you think he's more town because of his ability, which I agree with SOG doesn't say very much at all about alignment. Do you think he is scummy or not Pom?

[VP Baltar]

^clearly shows you're not reading the thread. There is a very specific reason I was interested in Jahudo today. It's all there for you to see if you're paying attention, which I don't really get the impression you are...soooooo

[VP Baltar]

bout time. Percy, any issue with this?

[VP Baltar]

We probably have like two days, right? Jahudo and Percy, work it out quickly please.

[VP Baltar]

VP seems rather ambivalent about all the lynches today, but I assume that Cobalt remains his top pick.

Well, I've been saying it for quite some time now. But you're right, now that my voting power is gone it does kind of zap the fun out of picking. I still say Cobalt is playing to his scum meta.

Tick tock, you two. Right now it looks like SOG or Cobalt between the two of you, so make your last points and then find the compromise. That or DDD should get in here and do what he needs to do.

[VP Baltar]

Where is Porkens anyhow? Is he due for a prod (not that it matters at this point I guess)?

[VP Baltar]

Ok, this game is next on my catch up list after I eat some food. Initial thoughts, it's good to see something out of Hero's slot finally. I still say lurking is scumtell for Cobalt, but at least there is something to actually assess there now. I still like Porkens for scum, but I see you guys are ahead of me on that so I probably need to look closer at it.

Jahudo and now Percy have entered the the realm of what the frak is my read and is it correct?

I still think d3x and dram are town.

Pom was blatantly coasting yesterday and I'd like to see some real effort today.


Better content coming after I get some food.

[VP Baltar]

I'm pretty supportive of the Porkens wagon, but right now I'm going to

Vote: Pomegranate

to kick this thing off right.

She's been floating under the radar far too much and when I iso'ed her I don't like her following regarding SOG/Cobalt. She only voted yesterday when I prompted her and when I did she chose the leading bandwagon on SOG to put him at L-1.

Then she coasted on that for awhile until Cobalt started to look likely. Then she tries to get off of SOG by saying his 11th hour power makes him look town...which was kind of ridiculous. At that point she said Cobalt was in "worse shape". Unfortunately, she doesn't even mention him after that and continues to argue with SOG about why he's scum.

The only thing giving me pause about her is that she WAS on the Nikanor lynch and stuck with it, but looking back she did only come to the wagon at my prodding (case came after) and it was pretty popular already at that point. It would have been a mildly early bus, but definitely not an unreasonable move if she had a bit of foresight there.

[VP Baltar]

I feel lonely on the Pom wagon . Little help here people.

[VP Baltar]

I endorse the above product/case/whatchamacallit

Also, Pom feels town, you can unvote her VP. Anyways the Pork wagon is so much tastier =D

I don't deny that Porkens looks bad as well, but Pom is far from town. Multiple wagons is productive. Quick lynches are not.

[VP Baltar]

Ok, time to go back and hit some things I didn't get a chance to due to lack of time this week.

People seem really focused on L-1. The rules don't imply that being at L-1 is necessarily the trigger for the "one last shot" abilities, regardless of the one sample role PM. While it may be a good idea to pause a lynch wagon when it reaches L-1, I see no reason to wagon someone just because it could potentially give them an ability.

Really? Why not? What are the downsides of this?

he has played that way as town. But I also have the feeling that he was playing to his meta and milking it on day one

Apart from similarities to Rhinox in Mafia Reverb, was there anything that gave you a vibe Porkens was "playing to his meta"?

Pomegranate 53 - buys into Porkens's idea, and I don't understand why.

I agree. Pom, how closely do you feel you've been paying attention to this game?

And d3x, dramonic and Pom still look cool for their involvement in lynching Nikanor.

I agree 100% about the first two, but it isn't inconceivable that Pom bussed. Combine that with her god-awful following on Day 2 and I think you have likely scum on your hands. Why do you think Percy looks worse than her?

The only time he's jumped on a wagon that wasn't already developed was when he jumped off the Nikanor wagon when Nikanor was at L-1 and voted for Seraphim/Cobalt, who had only one vote on him at the time - Nikanor's. Sure, he jumped back on to hammer Nik, but I read the jumping off as a last-ditch attempt to save his scumbuddy. Nikanor/Porkens makes a bucketload more sense than Nikanor/Cobalt.

I agree with this portion and I think it's one of the stronger points against Porkens. I don't mind him leaving at that time if he had a legitimate reason (we did still have time left to push another lynch), but his reasoning is pretty unconvincing overall and I don't see him really pushing the Cobalt lynch.

I mean, this is the same person who normally just wants to get a lynch pushed through on Day 1, so why counter the (by far) leading wagon?

Your interpretation of my votes is, sorry, wrong. You see a pattern where there is none, save that yes I would have voted for any strong wagon on day 1.

You were on the strong wagon and then got off! That's the point.

I had asked Cobalt to explain his vote on me, and he never responded. I found him scummy from that point on.

So if he hadn't voted you, you wouldn't have found him scummy?

Is there a problem with finding two people scummy simultaneously?

No, but asking a question like this that blatantly misses the point is. My point is that you only seem to find people scummy after they are already the popular wagon of the day. This is pretty classic scum behavior. Additionally, your reasons for finding people scummy seem to be 'well, he found me scummy first.' I have a hard time buying that that's the best you can do.

Let me ask you this, do you find me scummy?

It's also not like I didn't make my own points (or build a lot on other people's points) against Nikanor.

Stop the exaggeration ambulance. I want to get off! Here is your explanation of the Nikanor vote...which is entirely based off of what others have already said as far as I can see. Feel free to point out how you 'built a lot on other people's points', because I'm not seeing it.

What is funny later as well was that when Nik explains using his personal meta to catch scum, you say:

Also, I guess I understand your method of scumhunting, but I really can't say that I agree with it.

Which doesn't show the kind of conviction toward the wagon that you seem to be implying you had.

Then toward the end of the day you basically don't care:

I think that this lynch is good, and will also help focus me for tomorrow...

Guess that never happened.

The deeper I go into Pom's iso, the more I like my case.

Porkens, what do you think of Pom?

[VP Baltar]

...

So your special ability was to increase your lynch threshold?

[VP Baltar]

Why did you want to keep your ability a secret and then go and use it shortly after?

Unfortunately, I think the ability doesn't really say much (seems to be a common trend). I'm still having a hard time reconciling the dissonance between your stated intentions day 1 and your actual play...and now I have to wait to see what a pomegranate replacement is going to say. Sigh.

You're really going to have to show me a good case on someone else if I'm not to put you back and L-1 Porkens.

[VP Baltar]

And where the hell is d3x?

[VP Baltar]

You think d3x and dram look scummier than Pom?

[VP Baltar]

Sigh, you guys really aren't going to listen to me today huh. I really hate when towns get like this. If Porkens flips town I'm going to be pissed off tomorrow and expect each of you to at least give what I've said the time of day.

I want to hear from d3x and Pom's replacement before I consider giving up my fight though.

[VP Baltar]

How likely is it that there weren't any Scum on the Nik Wagon? Afterall, almost all of the players still alive were on the Nik Wagon.

This is true. I was moreso referring to how she clung to it, but there was almost certainly at least one scum on that wagon somewhere. The trick is figuring out how intense the bus was. Recent games with Sotty7 have made me question the site meta of 'scum tend to bus late' a bit, but it's a hard theory to give up on.

Is this a 2nd Wagon for 2nd Wagon's sake?

I would say it started that way, but I liked my case even moreso after a reread. I would be happy with that lynch or Porkens today however.

Btw d3x, why aren't you voting if you're convinced of the Porkwagon?

Do you think she was floating more than someone like dramonic or d3x yesterday?

Probably not, but I just have a better feeling from those two than I do from her, which in turn makes her floating by much more suspect to me.

She was investigating SOG who was still a suspect despite that apparent "truthful claim tell", which is more than I could say about Porkens on anyone. I think it makes her look good that she's at least trying to contribute when she doesn't have a vote.

I don't think it made any sense for her to be worrying about SOG at that point if she was handing him town points and thought Cobalt was still suspect. There is just too much sanddancing from her in my opinion. I don't really feel what she is saying in thread is following with who she is saying she supports the lynch of. If she was scum I see this as possibly trying to move the lynch away from Cobalt. It's lip service. If either Hero or Trumpet flip scum and Porkens doesn't, I would want to look at the other one.

[VP Baltar]

we would want to have a read before going to Lynch.

You mean read his case? Read Jahudo in ISO?

[VP Baltar]

Good to see d3x came around. Any other takers on the ToD wagon? Now is the time to get serious if you're doing it. However, ToD going after Jahudo hard has me a bit confused. I had seen the potential for buddies between them, but now I could be wrong unless they are distancing (a possibility in its own right given how inevitbale the Porkens lynch is feeling).

In the meantime:

Yes, being replaced I believe is a scumjtell (no data to back that up)

...no?

Can you show me that I'm wrong? Has there been any data collected to disprove what I said? Why are you so confident that it is flat "false"?

Lots of town players replace out. You can't really call it a scumtell if town does it as well. I have no clue why you feel replacing is scummy in general. You most certainly have to look at things on a case by case basis to determine if it's a viable scum move. In hero's case, I'm less certain than I was yesterday. Cobalt lurking is something I saw as a scumtell, but he has apparently flaked the site (at least from what I've seen) so replacing doesn't really say much of anything.

So....... Porkens lynch?

This may be best. This game is stagnating hardcore and I feel people aren't going to let it go or discuss much else until it happens. I think Porkens' frustration is reading kind of genuine at points, but there are also valid points against him, so it could be faked I suppose. Unless I get strong support for ToD soon I will be switching my vote over so we can move ahead.

[VP Baltar]

Any other takers on the ToD wagon. Last call.

[VP Baltar]

What do you think of Trumpet of Doom?

Honestly, the Jahudo case does seem in earnest and is muddying my read of that slot (as I implied earlier). I like some of his points against Jahudo, as they're fairly close to my own issues. Others (such as vote reasoning) are a bit blah, but I kind of like that he was willing to back off of that in his last post. That seems town reasonable. I can also agree with him in the one scum in {VPB, Hero, ToD} pairing considering I had a scum read on the other two slots at various times.

On the other hand, I don't have much experience with To'D (I think there was one game, but I can't recall specifically, perhaps one I hydra'ed with Amished in), so I don't know how good he is at "faking it".

All in all though, I could definitely get down with a Jahudo lynch today as a middle ground. At first the Porkens wagon seemed quite good, but the way people just pushed it and then went quiet bothers me a bit. Too much complacency for such vast support of it.

On the other hand, why are you open to another lynch suddenly Percy? You've been pushing Porkens pretty hard all day without much care elsewhere. Was it just ToD's case that changed your heart (even though you do still say Porkens is scum and there is wagon support there)?

[VP Baltar]

I now think ToD is town

lol

Feel free to explain this because it looked to me like the main reason you found him scummy was that he was attacking you, which hasn't really ceased.

[VP Baltar]

So that's the only reason you voted ToD? How did that reason become any better when ToD replaced in as opposed to when I originally started the Pom wagon?

[VP Baltar]

Sorry, was thinking you had voted.

Anyhow, you were talking about compromising for that lynch when Porkens lynch is still very viable, which I took as you starting to come around. Did anything change your view of ToD temporarily that has now switched back?

[VP Baltar]

I was referring to caring about Jahudo lynch today Percy, not so much all game. Anyhow, right now we are at a three way tie and not much time is left for deadline (two days probably). dram apparently isn't going to be doing anything. I would support any of the top three choices because a lynch is definitely necessary and they've all be scummy to various degrees. If I had to pick an order right now, I would go with Jahudo, ToD, Porkens. Everyone needs to get in here and vote accordingly. I will try to be around for deadline, but I do have to work this evening and tomorrow from 1 p.m.-8p.m. EST, so let's try to decide with some kind of authority and not dawdle.

Unvote, Vote: jahudo

[VP Baltar]

deadline is probably today isn't it?

[VP Baltar]

*jealous of Porkens*

Have a fun trip.

I see no real reason to lynch today.

[VP Baltar]

I can really only assume Porkens had something to do with it since he was the most suspicious of Percy.

I'd definitely like some explanation of it from the source before we end this day (ie, why now and why Percy?).

[VP Baltar]

Ghost could imply someone who is dead used their ability? dram perhaps?

Sort of like a vengeful townie vote manipulator instead of killing or something.

[VP Baltar]

Nikanor not being able to vote after being dead makes sense in terms of the L-6. I'm thinking I might go back later and try to guess who is voting who based on suspicions upon death.

I think d3x's plan of proving the voters sounds alright.

In terms of them not voting for No Lynch, it gives me a bit of pause. Right now, I'm thinking of two possible reasons being 1) each of the dead believe they have some kind of inside info on who one or more of the scums are or 2) maybe they can't vote in a Lylo situation and are therefore trying to exercise their power now while they can.

[VP Baltar]

Well there we go. Now it's just a matter of determining if they have info or not.

Hey ghost crew, if you can only vote in Mylo, put a couple votes on me. If you can vote in Mylo or Lylo, put a couple votes on Percy.

[VP Baltar]

Ok, so we've confirmed that the Ghost Votes are coming from our dead players {presumably excluding Nik}, they don't have any inside information, they can only do this at MyLo, and the battery has started depleting. Am I missing anything?

This seems correct to me. I also don't get Porkens' 'the scum could be doing this'. Seems like they would have far too much power in an endgame situation than a reasonable person like Vi would give.

'Glad to see someone thinks I'm reasonable <.< ~Vi

While I like the idea of a greater majority to lynch, it still seems like a No Lynch is probably the proper play here. I mean, the ghosts can give us their opinion for tomorrow if they'd like, but we'd still increase our odds of hitting scum by no lynching.

[VP Baltar]

Hmm, QT of the dead at least makes me feel a bit better about their suspicions. At least we have a hive mind at work and everyone isn't just voting with their opinions unchecked.

If you guys have a concensus among you, do as d3x says above.

[VP Baltar]

I'm also curious as to why there were two VP Baltar votes.

I requested it for information purposes. It was determine if they could only vote in Mylo or not.

In terms of your shooting question, something like that is a tough call. They've both recommended NL today, which I think is the right play. Overall, I guess Porkens has a higher net scumminess to me, but he also seems a bit too popular...if that makes sense. Then again, he did survive the lynch yesterday after his death seemed imminent and I really need to reread over all of that to see how his wagon broke down in more detail. I also liked some of ToD's contributions yesterday, so right now I guess Porkens would eat the lead.

[VP Baltar]

Actually, hero is right here. If we aren't going to lynch today, then we shouldn't give the scum any extra info about who they should kill tonight to make our jobs harder tomorrow. I wanted to find out if the ghosts have any strong reasons for lynching someone today as opposed to tomorrow when our odds of hitting scum are improved. Other than that, we probably don't want to get too deep into suspect lists atm.

[VP Baltar]

So, that's L-1. We're going to wait for the ghosties to reply aren't we?

[VP Baltar]

lazy ghosties?

[VP Baltar]

Well, I find it interesting that Percy got another vote, but we're not seeing any kind of concensus here. I'm going to give until tomorrow and then I'm hammering this No Lynch scum bag into next week.

[VP Baltar]

Vote: No Lynch

Do yo thang gyal!

[VP Baltar]

Hmm, I was really feeling a Porkens/ToD team too. Alright...my best guess is that the scum are in two of Percy, Porkens and Herodotus. I've been feeling Percy is pretty town for most of the game so my gut says the latter two, but that may not mean much given Percy's general ability to look pro-town and wall like a mofo when necessary. I still say d3x looks town for the Nikanor wagon.

Business time:

Porkens - who are your top two picks for scum? How was Brazil?
d3x - where are you going, where have you been?
Percy - I was going to ask you for your case on me, but apparently it's coming. I'm interested to see what your reread turns up.
Hero - had the ghosts come to some kind of concensus yesterday, would you have lynched that person? How much stock do you put in their opinions from yesterday?

[VP Baltar]

Why did you hammer the No Lynch after the Jahudo vote?

Because nobody was saying a damn word. I gave 24hrs notice. In that time I expected either the ghosts to reach an obvious concensus and we could discuss or living players to say something useful. Neither happened and I felt No Lynch was where we were headed anyhow. No sense in waiting another two or three days of nothing for it to happen.

[VP Baltar]

-____- You're that confident? We are in lylo you know....

[VP Baltar]

Wait, what was fair enough about the post? He said he thinks you're scum...if I was town i don't think I'd feel that was "fair".

Also, I'm really not going to be sold on super secret meta Percyscum...spill the beans! Is it related to the supersecret kinghammer?

[VP Baltar]

What really bothers me about the Porkens (hypo)wagon is that EVERYONE seems to agree with it....how often does this happen in a lylo situation? I mean, if Porkens were scum, his buddy certainly came into today ready to bus. I would almost certainly eliminate Percy from the possibility of a Porkens buddy. Hero and d3x are possible, but even that seems less than likely.

d3x, what do you think of this and how serious are you about lynching Porkens today?

[VP Baltar]

Hero, what are your thoughts on my post?

[VP Baltar]

I would be surprised if someone besides Pork himself was against a Pork Lynch. Let's assume he's Scum. If his partner wasn't down for his Lynch, and we Lynched him anyway, it'd be a very easy Town Win. Now let's assume he's Town. Scum aren't going to be against it and he's been the 2nd choice Wagon for most of the game.

I haven't seen anything that really lends me to favoring anyone over Pork. Considering how sparse conversation has been throughout this EndGame {especially D4 and thus far D5}, I don't see much by the way of swinging opinions on cases.

This seems a bit lazy considering that you were supportive earlier when I asked for the Percy vote to be taken off. Do you want to just lynch porkens now or do you have avenues of discussion you want to pursue?

[VP Baltar]

I plan to look after I get some lunch Porkens. I should be back in about an hour or so.

What is your specific interpretations of Herod and percy's interactions? Do you see buddying going both ways?

[VP Baltar]

The Nikanor push against [Hero slot] is hard to reconcile as a bussing or distancing move.

You still stick by this? Is this your main reason for finding Herodotus to be town?

Also, I can't remember if anyone had asked you if you'd been in a game with Mylo before...have you? If so, could you link it for me please. Thanks.

[VP Baltar]

I agree that Percy is an unlikely buddy for Porkens, but I could see either of d3x or VP as distancing buddies. If one of you is scum with Porkens, then failing to bus him today if we do in fact lynch him would put the spotlight on you tomorrow, so the consensus isn't really a tell.

eh, I hear you, but would that be the first place scum go in lylo? I'd think they'd actually try to just lynch town first and win.

[VP Baltar]

Huh? That was the REASON I asked that question, yes, but I'd like Percy to answer for himself.

[VP Baltar]

Well yeah, it's plausible. I'm certainly not denying that. I'm just having trouble placing who his partner would be. I guess d3x is possible out of sheer lurkiness. Percy is a no and it seems that you've generally wanted him dead for awhile....

[VP Baltar]

I'm waiting for Percy before I decide to vote.

[VP Baltar]

Thanks to Herodotus for coming and making it so I didn't have to play alone. Nikanor just never could shake his lynch (and I tried to get it off subtly!) and Cobalt played to his usual scum meta of a giant red arrow saying "SCUM!"

I was fully prepared to pull a Sotty on Day 2 if I had to.

Vi's probably right that the apathy set in over the course of the game, but that really helped out our team immensely. I wasn't about to encourage people to start posting behind the show of stamping my feet mildly. Letting the battery dwindle quickly and watching people rush to whatever was available made it fairly easy to get our way in the end.

Thanks to Vi for modding and enjoy your break!

[VP Baltar]

GG thought I was town? Now you know something is wrong....

Also, I have to say it was a very weird experience NOT powerhammering in lylo. Yesterday it was hilarioius when Herodotus and I were both posting in thread because I knew we were both thinking 'should we hammer now or wait?' Even though Porkens had used his 11th hour ability, I was really worried that endgame would trigger some kind of last shot from Percy or something and then the next day it'd be really easy for the town to bag and tag.

Please hold for scum QT.

[VP Baltar]

oh yeah, in the PM...do'h

[VP Baltar]

Gamma, how dare you, I'm the only one allowed to reference Mafia of Order and only to make VPB feel bad about lynching me on D1 in that game

-____-

I thought it was funny in the QT how my NK was expected for like three days straight. I was there in spirit guys!

The brawl with VPB was fun while it lasted. I don't think I could've caught you though. The tells weren't really developed and it felt like a town-town stalemate to me.

It was really my only hope. I wanted to get you lynched before you could get dangerous like darkwing duck, but then the brawl ensued and I was hoping to get it down to a town-town looking stalemate. You definitely had valid points against me, but like you said, they just didnt' have time to develop. Even though I had resigned myself to the Nik lynch day one, I was still looking for that opportunity to get out of it. I think if he had come in and started posting we could have worked our way out of it...

...speaking of which, what was the deal Nik? It was really only your absence that was in question for the most part. Had you been more active I don't think you would have been the lynch day 1. Though I do have to commend you for your distancing on the way down.

gonzo, new age

*works on setup for post move*

[VP Baltar]

(Granted the dead players would have lynched Percy anyway, but Percy had an 11th Hour ability in the wings.)

Somehow I think that would have spelled the end of Porkens anyhow.

Thanks very much for playing! Do you have any other advice about the 11th Hour abilities?

Um, as scum it made it kind of hard to really plan any strategy beyond a mountainous setup. I know some people think we played too cautiously with the hammer, but we weren't under any real scrutiny and we had no clue what

could

be out there. I didn't really care for what abilities we did have either...but town wasn't exactly packing heavy guns either.

Flavorwise...I didn't really care because I don't think I've played 90% of the games anyhow. lol, I am indeed glad we killed DT though because I'm sure he would have wanted to discuss it and it wasn't my strong suit at all.

[VP Baltar]

(Granted the dead players would have lynched Percy anyway, but Percy had an 11th Hour ability in the wings.)

Somehow I think that would have spelled the end of Porkens anyhow.

Thanks very much for playing! Do you have any other advice about the 11th Hour abilities?

Um, as scum it made it kind of hard to really plan any strategy beyond a mountainous setup. I know some people think we played too cautiously with the hammer, but we weren't under any real scrutiny and we had no clue what

could

be out there. I didn't really care for what abilities we did have either...but town wasn't exactly packing heavy guns either.

Flavorwise...I didn't really care because I don't think I've played 90% of the games anyhow. lol, I am indeed glad we killed DT though because I'm sure he would have wanted to discuss it and it wasn't my strong suit at all.