Square Enix Mafia I: Diabolus Erus (GAME OVER)

[PranaDevil]

vote: Kdub

I don't believe Iecerint was being honest there, and was just pissing about in The Inn, and you're hoping people will jump on the wagon and get a lynch through easily.

[PranaDevil]

First... do I know JP from elsewhere?

Second, where does it say "lightning bolt"? It says electrocuted. Which are two different things as far as I'm concerned. So I'm not about to go voting someone based on such flimsy reasoning.

[PranaDevil]

Sage wisdom from Glork already.

dramonic - are you one of those big summons? Yes or No, next post.

I also have a

stonecoldlock

on PranaDevil for scum. Feeble cat is feeble, after all.

Scum on a platter - bv - blue plate special.*

vote: PranaDevil

*blue plate specials not guaranteed.

Am I now? That's interesting, considering I'm not. Which means you're either really bad scum (you've been here about 6 years, I doubt that), or you're town and have made a right royal pigs ear of something.

So no, I'm not scum, and I don't even think you are, you're town with a role that's giving you false information of some kind.

Not entirely sure what you're hinting with "feeble cat" either, whether it's you or me. But if the thing that I am is a cat, I'm a dinosaur.

[PranaDevil]

Fair point then inHim, however I will admit to not spotting that bit on my check after it was pointed out. Teach me to rush it when I'm on my way out the door.

unvote

for now, still don't think Dramonic is scum yet. Not writing it off, but it's possible more than one person has lightning based attacks.

[PranaDevil]

Yeesh, you miss one word and apparently you're scum, I had no idea who Ultros was, thus also wasn't going to base anything off a character I hadn't heard of (my FF knowledge is hazy at best, and I've only properly played 7 and 8 anyway).

But it's still flimsy reasoning, it's saying "Dramonic is a lightning based character, thus it was him", erm... considering it seems there's a lot of elemental based stuff (and it's possible there are some bosses used that might use different attacks), that reasoning is flimsy, and thereby not voting based off it unless more can be determined. Yes it's a small lead, no it's not enough to someone solely because of.

Plus, looking back over it, I'm thinking Glork was possibly stretching to the case on Dramonic by piecing it together as he did and ignoring that anyone else could be lightning based, and I'd say he was most likely covering for either himself, or someone else, on the basis of knowing there's more than the one lightning based character (or at least, more than one character who can use a lightning attack), and spotting Dram's claim early on, has seized it.

unvote; vote: Glork

[PranaDevil]

Plus, looking back over it, I'm thinking Glork was possibly stretching to the case on Dramonic by piecing it together as he did and ignoring that anyone else could be lightning based, and I'd say he was most likely covering for either himself, or someone else, on the basis of knowing there's more than the one lightning based character (or at least, more than one character who can use a lightning attack), and spotting Dram's claim early on, has seized it.

unvote; vote: Glork

Two things:
1) Page 1 vote.
2) As soon as Dram pointed out the whole "black tornado" thing, I backed off the flavor connection.

Please reassess your vote and place it somewhere notstupid and nothypocritical. Kthx.

Personally, I still think it's a worthy issue to note... however, others with more knowledge of Ultros than I have made some obvious pointers... and as others have said, the vote does appear pretty obvious now. (Although I will point out to all that Glork has said that Ultros counters magical attacks by inflicting blind... I also take it that's Glork admitting to using an ability on Iecerint over the night phase, so it's worth keeping this in mind if Iec gets lynched).

unvote; vote: Iecerint

[PranaDevil]

Buh? You're one, and only, post this entire game, is to just vote me without even attempting to explain why?

[PranaDevil]

My point is, the votes on Dram were simply "He's lightning based, there was a lightning attack, get 'im!" Ignoring everything else.

The Ultros information however seems a bit stronger, the SK thing is a possibility, the blind status is there too, and the character itself is one that could be thought of either wa(Good or bad... or even SK). Whereas Ramuh is obviously on the right side of the coin in the games, and thus likely to be here as well.

As for the discussion of what is strong against other magic, I've just dug up this handy list:

Element Strong Against
Fire Ice
Ice Wind
Wind Earth
Earth Thunder
Thunder Water
Water Fire
Dark Light
Light Dark

Not entirely sure if we're following that rigidly (This is also nabbed from a FFXI section, just in case other games had it in different ways (as it's possible a character from 4 would be strong against whatever it's strong of in that game, than what it would be strong against in 11).

Also @Antifinity, Odin was present as far back as that, but I don't think he always used the same elements. As in FFVII it's just a straight "insta-death" and in FFVIII it's slicing them in half before the battle begins, but then it's only random, so I don't think Odin's worth considering in regards to lightning based attacks anyway.

[PranaDevil]

Has anyone ever used Death Millers in a two mafia game?

What makes you sure it is a two mafia game? I realize there was two kills at night, but why two mafia specifically?

I was actually inquiring about the opposite. If Icerint is really a deathmiller, I was saying that would confirm there isn't two mafias. Of course we'd have to hit a scum before icerint for any of this to be a viable information path.

Does not compute.

Surely the existance of a Death Miller wouldn't mean anything other than... there's a Death Miller. We could still have 2 scum teams or whatever, it doesn't have to say "From scum team 1" on Iec's role name to announce there's more than one team after all.

Also, thinking on it, the easiest way to find out whether or not Iec is what he says he is, is just to investigate him a day or two after we hit scum. Then if he still turns up scum, we lynch him. Of course that relies on us, as town, not making a balls up of it and lynching the wrong people too often.

I want time to re-read the whole thread before I go any further tho', so I'm going to...

unvote

and give the whole thing a thorough re-read through when I get back tonight.

[PranaDevil]

Has anyone ever used Death Millers in a two mafia game?

What makes you sure it is a two mafia game? I realize there was two kills at night, but why two mafia specifically?

I was actually inquiring about the opposite. If Icerint is really a deathmiller, I was saying that would confirm there isn't two mafias. Of course we'd have to hit a scum before icerint for any of this to be a viable information path.

Does not compute.

How does the mod decide which team the death miller flips onto? If mafia A has a death miller, that makes people draw false connections about mafia A and possibly mislynch, that gives Mafia A an advantage over Mafia B. Unless both mafia's have a related death miller who roleflips as one of them.

I admit I'm not wholey up on the ins and outs of how this site works 2 mafia team roles, but at a guess, it would just be a typical "guilty" flip when Iec is killed if he's a Death Miller, as opposed to a specific group. However if others have more info on how things likely work round here (or more importantly, if anyone else has played under Kise, I only have with him as a co-mod, so not enough to go on as far as mod meta goes).

As for being contradictory, like I say, it's a far cry from "he's lightning based, kill him!" to "Inflicts Blind via ink, and is unlikely to be pro-town due to the character in the games". Ramah is hardly likely to be an enemy, and nobody has countered that claim, therefore it was a very bad flavour based lynch, it amazes me that people actually think otherwise, and that people were even considering pushing for it (hence my vote on Glork previously, and I'm still unsure of him).

However, I still have another read through to do later.

[PranaDevil]

How is it flimsy? Besides the flavor clearly stating it, did you not take elementary science? What happens when a lightning bolt hits ANYTHING?

That's beside the point, it's flimsy because he's claimed sodding Ramah! It hasn't been contested (and if he's lying... no, the real one shouldn't step forward until it's worth doing so), and thus he's not going to be scum in this game. Thus it's flimsy logic to focus on a good guy.

[PranaDevil]

How is it flimsy? Besides the flavor clearly stating it, did you not take elementary science? What happens when a lightning bolt hits ANYTHING?

That's beside the point, it's flimsy because he's claimed sodding Ramah! It hasn't been contested (and if he's lying... no, the real one shouldn't step forward until it's worth doing so), and thus he's not going to be scum in this game. Thus it's flimsy logic to focus on a good guy.

Ramuh could be a safeclaim. I'm not saying he is scum, but it's pretty weak to assume that someone is telling the truth simply because they claim a character and are not counterclaimed.

Agreed, but it's just as weak to assume someone's not telling the truth purely because "they're lightning based".

He might be a completely different character, I wont deny that, however I will not lynch him based on "he's claimed a lightning character, someone died by lightning". That's just putting 2 and 2 together to make 5. If later on more attention is drawn that way for other reasons, then it's time to consider his lying, but not right off the bat.

I'd rather either lynch someone based on play, or based on stronger flavour than that, which is why I'm still somewhat fine with the Iec lynch (yet I still need to do that bigger read through, apologies for not doing so yet).

[PranaDevil]

How is it flimsy? Besides the flavor clearly stating it, did you not take elementary science? What happens when a lightning bolt hits ANYTHING?

That's beside the point, it's flimsy because he's claimed sodding Ramah! It hasn't been contested (and if he's lying... no, the real one shouldn't step forward until it's worth doing so), and thus he's not going to be scum in this game. Thus it's flimsy logic to focus on a good guy.

Robo was scum in Chrono Trigger Mafia.

Why exactly should "Ramuh is a freaking good guy" mean anything?

In that instance then, all flavour should be discounted, and we can ignore the Iec wagon completely because it means nothing as well. Or are we saying it counts in one direction, and not the other?

What's more... I've never played Chrono Trigger, so that's meaningless to me. I'm going off this game and what I know so far.

@kdub, I agree with the fact it doesn't mean he's cleared. I do not agree that it instantly makes it a worthy lync based on the flavour, they're two seperate issues completely.

[PranaDevil]

I wasn't saying it was useless, I was pointing out how stupid your comment was.

It's like you're saying flavour in one direction is "good" and flavour in another direction is "bad".

Ramah is most likely to be good, any denying on that? No? Good. Therefore it's logical to consider that Ramah is unlikely to be on the mafia side... thus it's going to be completely bloody stupid to push a lynch on a guy who's claimed Ramah "'cuz Ramah is lightning n stuffs".

So yes, the logic in lynching a guy who claimed Ramah is flimsy until more information is gotten.

It is completely a different matter with Iec and the Ultros claim... however the more this goes on, the more I'm wondering if old Ultros got targetted last night, and someone got ink in the fact from the targetting.

As I see no other reason you're blatantly twisting what I'm saying to such an extent that it becomes the opposite of my point, unless you are scum deliberately doing so.

[PranaDevil]

I can see that it's possible that Ramah "could" be on the side of scum in this game, buuuut... that falls in the position of "lets at least see if something more scummy comes from that direction first" before pushing for a lynch.

and kdub, I can see where you're coming from in a sense (I thought you meant in regards to the Ramah/Ultros difference, which I thought was clear). But my reasoning is that if it doesn't appear scummy, I don't feel it's worth considering a lynch. Therefore just because he's lightning based doesn't mean he's automatically scum. It would need me to see something scummy to place a vote there, or have more solid based evidence that the role could be scum outside of the element they use, which (even if we discount the Ramah thing) is all we have.

---

Vote Count:

Iecerint: 5

(KDub, Glork, MehPlusRawr, dramonic, Chronopie, JPSalazar)

PranaDevil: 4

(inHimshallibe, Iecerint, Starbuck, Nautilus)

Glork: 2

(Zodiark13)

Zodiark13: 2

(Devotress, FC Groningen)

Chronopie: 2

(WorseExcuse, bill1148)

bv310: 1

(wolframnhart)

Antifinity: 1

(bv310)

Not Voting:

Antifinity
killa seven
PranaDevil

Lynch:

11 votes.

Deadline:

May 2nd - 5:40 PM EST

[PranaDevil]

Okay, a quick re-read of things... and Zodiark stands out to me, he came in, had a couple of posts talking about possible characters which didn't really help us any, followed that up with a bunch of nothing posts, and ends with what still amounts to nothing, even more so with using "OMGUS" as a reason why he would be voted by Glork.

vote: Zodiark

Been MIA since Tuesday morning, and hasn't really contributed as yet.

[PranaDevil]

Okay, a quick re-read of things... and Zodiark stands out to me, he came in, had a couple of posts talking about possible characters which didn't really help us any, followed that up with a bunch of nothing posts, and ends with what still amounts to nothing, even more so with using "OMGUS" as a reason why he would be voted by Glork.

vote: Zodiark

Been MIA since Tuesday morning, and hasn't really contributed as yet.

Vote PranaDevil

I don't see why we need to vote for Zodiark, just because he's lurking, especially with more suspicious targets like Glork or Icerint.

Glork, the only reason I suspect you is the blind thing, it just seems far too convenient, and I think it seems likely that if he does have some sort of ability based on the games, then it would be a reaction ability.

The idea that Icerint might be a jester doesn't add up to me, for one, it doesn't fit the flavor, and secondly, his 'only kill me after killing another scum' rule seems to directly go against a goal of being killed as quickly as possibly.[/b]

Exactly what FC just said... hell, I said it in that post above you, and you just avoided it completely. Zodiark has offered us zero this entire game, but has made it "appear" like he has. That's scummy as far as I'm concerned.

Glork I'm unsure of, as it's possible he was inflicted with blind deliberately. However it's possible it was a reactionary based ability through him attacking someone (Possibly Ultros) at night.

Iecerint, I'm still unsure of, and I definitely don't feel he's a jester, purely because they rarely appear, plus there's the fact that it would be a severely big gamble to claim someone who could be scummy this early on. Again, not going to say he's not scum, and I'm still considering him, and would happily vote for a wagon on either of Glork or Iec, I just feel Zodiark is scummiest right now.

I think some people are wrongly thinking that just because you have your vote in one direction, it doesn't mean you don't consider others to be scummy.

Still,

FoS: Antifinity

for really making a balls up of my reasons for voting Zodiark, and claiming it's all about lurking, instead of the obvious, namely what I actually said.

[PranaDevil]

I dunno, the fact he brought up the Jester thing is somewhat suspect to me "Don't vote Iec, he could be another role that means he wins the game" Entirely possible it's an attempt to cover for a scum buddy.

I still feel a Zodiark lynch would be good for town.

---

Vote Count:

Iecerint: 5

(KDub, Glork, MehPlusRawr, dramonic, Chronopie, JPSalazar)

PranaDevil: 5

(inHimshallibe, Iecerint, Starbuck, Nautilus, Antifinity)

Zodiark13: 3

(Devotress, FC Groningen, PranaDevil)

Chronopie: 2

(WorseExcuse, bill1148)

Glork: 1

bv310: 1

(wolframnhart)

Antifinity: 1

(bv310)

Not Voting:

killa seven
Zodiark13

Lynch:

11 votes.

Deadline:

May 2nd - 5:40 PM EST

[PranaDevil]

you can also check GD where he's asking for a new avatar as well. Him be alive and well (although my initial point at the time was he had vanished prior to his V/LA, and others brought up that he had been posting even prior to that V/LA he gave, which is suspect to begin with, as is his sudden disappearing act after people mention he's been acting scummy).

[PranaDevil]

On PranaDevil

How is it flimsy? Besides the flavor clearly stating it, did you not take elementary science? What happens when a lightning bolt hits ANYTHING?

That's beside the point, it's flimsy because he's claimed sodding Ramah! It hasn't been contested (and if he's lying... no, the real one shouldn't step forward until it's worth doing so), and thus he's not going to be scum in this game. Thus it's flimsy logic to focus on a good guy.

I've already stated once that I am not familiar with the flavor in this game. So you ranting on about who someone claimed is not going to help me understand where you are coming from.

It's not good to assume that just because someone hasn't been counterclaimed that they are being true. It's Day 1.

It's also not a good idea to assume that good guys are immediately good and vice versa, especially since this is a Kise game.

It's already been established (in this thread, multiple times) that Ramah is not the one, and only, lightning based character. Therefore, it goes without saying that it's probable that other lightning based characters will be in the game.

Also, not being counterclaimed doesn't mean he's being honest, true. But are you honestly suggesting we lynch people who are more inclined to be on the side of the town (based on the games at hand), purely because "OMG He's lightning, and we had a lightning attack"?

As for good guys aren't immediately good, that is true. However by the same token, the first two guys killed are both good, and one of them is a mason... a mason who would be part of a group called Avalanche in FFVII (This has been brought up before too, more often than once again, so if you've somehow missed this, you need a re-read), therefore it's relatively safe to assume (at this point) that good will be on the side of good in this game.

Your supposed "case" and "vote" on Zodiark in Post 259 lacks all stability and I'll tell you why.

Okay, a quick re-read of things... and Zodiark stands out to me, he came in, had a couple of posts talking about possible characters which didn't really help us any

How and why didn't it help us any?

followed that up with a bunch of nothing posts, and ends with what still amounts to nothing

What exactly?

even more so with using "OMGUS" as a reason why he would be voted by Glork.

Why?

Zodiark has offered us zero this entire game, but has made it "appear" like he has. That's scummy as far as I'm concerned.

Where? Do you have specific examples?

Do an ISO on Zodiark if you can't answer those for yourself... it feels like you're stretching to negate my points on Zodiark, as opposed to actually paying attention to them yourself.

But to dumb it down for you:

His posts didn't help because the only thing he really did was bang on about "possible roles" which if it achieves anything, just gives scum more options to fake claim, then followed up with a bunch of essentially nothing posts.

How and why? What? How are they nothing posts? Because he posted feck all in them
He posts what the flavour is in summary form
Answers who Larxene is
Posts a pointless post in response to a "Zodiark = town" post arguing against it, huh?
Posts "explain please" in response to another post.
and then an utterly stupid "not finding anyone scummy is scummy?" post

Is ANY of that helping us? That also amounts to half of his post count in this game thus far.

Your question regarding the Glork vote from Zodiark is nonsense and makes zero sense, actually pose a question.

As for specific examples, his entire posting history, like I say, do an ISO.

Also, did you answer this question from Wolf yet?

@Prana
What is the difference between Zodiarks absence and bv310? or Killa seven for that matter? Is it just the topics that each have/haven't?

Yes, I did respond to that, in fact FC responded to it first here, and I followed up with another response here, just because it quotes Antifinity doesn't mean it doesn't answer the same question.

Like I say above, examples are hardly "needed" when a quick ISO check gives everything. My case on Zodiark was his entire posting history, I'd have felt it common sense to simple fire up an ISO on him in this thread and actually look at what I was referring to, rather than expect me to link to every single one of his posts needlessly.

[PranaDevil]

That was what I posted originally though, just in a cut down version the first time around, as there was little, to no, reason to point each post out individually, as otherwise I would have simply been linking to his entire post history.

As for not understanding the FF universe, that's fine, however, others have already elaborated on those points, which means it's pointless bringing them up now, unless you haven't read what they were saying.

[PranaDevil]

Agree with Glork about Prana and Anti needing to get shot.

If it comes from scum, I'm all for them trying to take me out. I'd advise town not to waste a night attacking me though.

[PranaDevil]

Well, first off... that flavour text might be giving us info (Dram claimed Ramah, and it had Ramah protecting against a lightning based attack). Or it's just been thrown in for entertainment purposes, and is actually meaningless.

It's also interesting to note just one person died last night, not two, so either someone didn't send in a kill, or they did, but they went after someone who didn't die from their attack through some elemental protection stuff.

But the first thing I'd like to ask is whether Glork is still blind or not (If he knows), and if not, is anyone else?

[PranaDevil]

Hold on... how the hell can I be "crybaby" if... myself and Crybaby posted in the QT last night? Only one post per person remember?

Ditto for the pre-game, I posted there under my own name.

And I'll repeat what I said before, I am not (I repeat)

NOT

bulletproof.

vote: Iecerint

For the fact that he's obviously pushing a lynch that makes zero sense just based on the obvious facts staring in his face in the QT.

6

---

Vote Count:

PranaDevil: 2

(Iecerint, Glork)

Iecerint: 1

(PranaDevil)

Not Voting:

Antifinity
bill1148
bv310
Chronopie
Devotress
DragonsofSummer
dramonic
FC Groningen
inHimshallibe
JPSalazar
KDub
MehPlusRawr
Starbuck
wolframnhart
WorseExcuse

Lynch:

10 votes.

Deadline:

May 16th - 3:00 PM EST

[PranaDevil]

Oh, and EBWOP

I'm not Tidus.

[PranaDevil]

Just a question Glork... did you target anyone N0?

I'm asking because if you did, and the person you targetted has an automatic retaliation of anything being to blind the person, it will give us some information.

Also, my point about it being interesting only 1 died last night, is because we lost 2 on day one, and I'm half thinking someone may have tried attacking me last night (possibly a town vig? As I don't see what Nautilius did that would cause a town vig to go after him). Or they went after someone else who had elemental properties cancelling the kill out.

Just an assumption, but it's something worth thinking about.

[PranaDevil]

If I felt that any potential actions by me would have led to our (very likely anti-town) Blinder, I would have claimed as such.

Okies, so unlikely to have a Glork scum, unless it's playing very ballsy.

Meaning we most likely have a scum who can target and blind people. Now we just need to know if they did anything in the last night phase, and who to.

[PranaDevil]

I've got a feeling that countdown is something along the lines of "whoever casts the last vote dies".

That being said, there's a ton of suspicion on me it seems, so I'm up for throwing the last vote on, as I'd rather that than risk someone else with a decent role go down with it.

Of course, if it's an "auto hammer" type of deal, we need to make sure the right person is being voted (I'd roll with Anti tho'), and if it's neither, and it's a specific person... well hell, it doesn't make the slightest bit of difference who casts it in that case.

I just get a feeling it's the first option.

[PranaDevil]

More trying to explain why someone elses didn't go through.

And Doom basically is Death. A countdown appears over someone's head and counts down, when it hits zero that person dies.

[PranaDevil]

Alright I've read up.


Couldn't have missed the red countdown. Now unless someone ninja'd a vote, I'm willing to vote now to get the count down to 1. (gonna refresh before posting to make sure I don't hit 0)

However, where is it established that the countdown means doom/death? As far as I see it, its pure speculation. (although I certainly don't dare to hit 0 myself right now)

Name another countdown in the FF games that can happen through an ability (unless Kise deliberately was going to have a countdown day 2 and have something happen, in which case it's not an ability)

To Glork:
First of all, what is a JOAT? Not common with the abbrevation.
Secondly, wasn't it you that wanted Tidus to claim yesterday? "Only good things will happen, I promise". Why was that? Also, do you have any other reason to believe that Tidus is an evil role except for Wolf's post in the Inn the first night?

JOAT = Jack Of All Trades (various 1 use abilities).

And Glork's explained why he wanted Tidus to claim (the fact he'd claimed a Framer ability, and thus was scum). He said that right near the start of the day.

To Prana:
You've posted your reasons after I posted. I also had reason to suspect Zodiark back then, but you weren't related. Because I suspected Zodiark, doesn't mean I wanted to defend you. I do find it strange that you post something in close to "yeah, what he said" later on, when you had a different reason posted than me.

For the record, my reason was the fact that he "conveniently went off the radar on page 6". Your reason was "OMGUS vote and role speculation" and later the statement that he didn't contribute at all. Nowhere related.

You quoted the question aimed at me, and answered it, my reason was given after your statement, so please don't go putting words in my mouth.

Now... being that the countdown is at 1, if it's death, g'bye people, if it's not, well... we'll have to go through it to get out of this phase at some point regardless...

unvote; vote: FC

Considering you didn't read what Glork was saying fully, ignored the fact we were waiting in regards to the countdown, and then are trying to swing people onto my case through nothing more than "claiming" your reasons were different to mine.

0

[PranaDevil]

We didn't actually know Starbuck was the one who would be doomed until after my "hammer" on the countdown.

So how would we have been trying to keep a specific person from being doomed, if we had no clue in regards to whether it was a specific person or not until after the fact?

[PranaDevil]

We didn't actually know Starbuck was the one who would be doomed until after my "hammer" on the countdown.

So how would we have been trying to keep a specific person from being doomed, if we had no clue in regards to whether it was a specific person or not until after the fact?

You know after your WIFOM after the night scene, and the second sentence of this last post, I'm more and more certain that you know EXACTLY what's going on.

These words... they do not fit in my mouth.

I did no WIFOM, if you took it as that way, fine, but you're the one bringing it up as WIFOM, not me. I asked someone to target me last night, and rather than 2 deaths, we've got 1. Methinks that's because someone did target me and lo, I'm still here.

As for my last sentence there, buh? How's that say I know what's going on? I WILLINGLY cast the final vote 'cause, y'know... if someone's going to get launched out of the game, it may as well be me because no scum will do it, and I have suspicion on me, at least that way I'm actively helping town by being the last one on that countdown.

I actually do hope that the countdown kills whoever made the last vote, 1 - Because it will prove I'm town and 2 - Town can get onto the right track again.

[PranaDevil]

@Glork
Like I said, the entire post was a joke post, I have no abilities at all, but if you wish to vote me and over exaggerate it then hey, have fun.

So you're saying you're not Tidus at all, then? What on earth would possess you to say that you were?

I think he's saying he "is" Tidus, but has no abilities.

Either way, I still have no clue why he would suggest he had abilities, nor why he would come out and admit it after it's obvious suspicion has piled up for the issue.

[PranaDevil]

Question, wasn't glork starting the day yesterday with a vote on him? (Evidentally yes, thanks to Glork's post after a preview)

Was that because he was blind, or perhaps another issue?

Either way, easy way to tell if wolf's been blinded.

Wolf, vote someone, anyone, I don't care who. If your vote sticks, then you're not blind, if you refuse to vote, you're not blind. If you vote and it doesn't up someone's vote count, then you have been blinded.

[PranaDevil]

I find it amusing that suddenly, Tidus is a joke and he gets ink in his eyes. What GREAT timing, you know?

If I weren't voting Iece for no adequately explored reason I'd vote you

. But I'll wait for the countdoom to resolve.

Dram needs to lie better.

[PranaDevil]

I find it amusing that suddenly, Tidus is a joke and he gets ink in his eyes. What GREAT timing, you know?

If I weren't voting Iece for no adequately explored reason I'd vote you

. But I'll wait for the countdoom to resolve.

Dram needs to lie better.

First you = glork. second you = wolf. I think I'll stop using pronouns since that seems to confuse prana and glork.

Erm... I highly,

highly

doubt Glork was curious about the first sentence when he asked who the "you" was.

So when you answered his post asking who the "you" was meant for... why did you reply with this:

you in this case is you Glork.

[PranaDevil]

Meh needs to read moar.

Wolf has stated he was "Crybaby" in the Quick Topic. No, he didn't frame anybody, but he claimed a framer ability in part of his JOAT's stuff, he's since said he was joking with it (very in depth post for a joke though), and thus it's not a role that could be town, plus with him allowing people to go on speculating about it for so long, it's very very anti-town behaviour.

As for myself, I "thought" I was killing myself because, y'know... we thought that's what was going to happen with the countdown. I'd get myself out of the game so suspicion wouldn't be on me, you lot could go back to scum hunting rather than focusing on me.

We only found out that Starbuck would be the one to die "after" my post where she stated she'd recieved a PM (Why she didn't mention that BEFORE I had cast my vote, I have no clue). Either way, I didn't kill Starbuck at all, and I'd like to see where you drew that conclusion from.

[PranaDevil]

Considering everyone was saying that they refused to risk being the last person to vote at the end of the countdown, I think you'll find you're wrong there Iec.

[PranaDevil]

As for my last sentence there, buh? How's that say I know what's going on? I WILLINGLY cast the final vote 'cause, y'know... if someone's going to get launched out of the game, it may as well be me because no scum will do it, and I have suspicion on me, at least that way I'm actively helping town by being the last one on that countdown.

Realistically, if someone knew what was going on, they would jump forth, willingly try to push it to look like a martyr, fooling everyone who votes up until that final vote, which, unfortunately, was Starbuck.

I am not convinced in any way, shape, or form that you have an ounce of innocence.

Vote: PranaDevil

I'm keeping this on until, like I said, you can convince me otherwise. I do not feel safe with you around.

Far as I was aware, my vote was the final one, Starbuck posted after me (though the timing of it was very close it would seem), and died because she had Doom cast on her by someone, NOT (I repeat, not) because she was the person to count it down from 1 to zero.

[PranaDevil]

They weren't there to begin with, only after they were mentioned did I scroll back to see what people were on about.

[PranaDevil]

Antifinity with an absolutely killer attempt at role fishing there. Unfortunately there's no bites.

unvote; vote: Antifinity

[PranaDevil]

Purely because I'm voting Anti? Seriously, there was absolutely nothing scummy in my post. Unless you're deliberately searching for it.

[PranaDevil]

Antifinity with an absolutely killer attempt at role fishing there. Unfortunately there's no bites.

unvote; vote: Antifinity

FoS: Antifinity

for rolefishing.

Prana? Exactly why do you want someone's role outed? And why are you voting for someone you're agreeing with?

I don't want someone's role outed, and I don't agree with Antifinity.

It would appear that people have decided I'm scummy, and thus are reading everything I say as "how do we make this appear scummy", as opposed to what it's written as.

[PranaDevil]

I meant unfortunately for Anti, not unfortunately for anyone else.

---

Vote Count:

Antifinity: 4

(Iecerint, Glork, PranaDevil, FC Groningen, wolframnhart)

PranaDevil: 4

(MehPlusRawr, JPSalazar, Antifinity, bill1148)

Chronopie: 2

(Devotress, bv310)

wolframnhart: 2

(dramonic, WorseExcuse)

Iecerint: 2

(Chronopie, KDub)

Not Voting:

DragonsofSummer
inHimshallibe

Lynch:

9 votes.

Deadline:

May 16th - 3:00 PM EST

[PranaDevil]

This Antifinity wagon is hella scummy. I think I'll go back to Prana. [/yetanotherflipflop]

Unvote
Vote: Prana

Meh, no point defending, as anything I say becomes scummy. Even me voting Antifinity is somehow scummy, despite the fact nothing said in it was scummy.

[PranaDevil]

First, dramonic has claimed Ramuh, and even claimed Ramuh before being put under suspicion (in the Inn, if I recall). And while Ramuh = electrocution, everything else in the story points elsewhere. A "tornado" came before the bolt of lightining. Ramuh was shown protecting other players in the story.

Except Kise has stated (by adding it to the rules) that flavour may (or may not) have any indication of alignment in game.

Others have also said that a Kise game may not necessarily mean FF good guys are good guys in this (though logic dictates that, thus far, that's been the norm, so unless there's a flip that shows otherwise, I wouldn't vouch for that).

So basing views off flavour now is a very poor way of going about things, although I will admit I don't think Dram's scum at this moment in time.

[PranaDevil]

It annoys me that people are barking up the wrong trees over absolutely sod all.

You might be talking a lot Glork, but you've gotten nowhere for town thus far, you've spent ages pushing, and pushing things, but yet still don't really know where you're going. You push hard for Anti, then based purely on the fact I actually voted Anti myself, you vote for me. Riiiight.

If it wasn't for the fact you had blind cast on you last night (along with another ability it would appear, as you started the day with a vote on you, but you never mentioned another ability that had been used on you either... I wonder...) I would say you were obv scum.

In fact, I wonder why you had an auto vote cast on you on D1. It was assumed it was part of blind. But Wolf's got Blind, and it would appear while his vote doesn't count, he doesn't take one less vote to lynch, and people are getting told when a negative status is used on them.

I have me a feeling that you are, indeed, scum. The blind thing has worked in your favour, and you're winging it with that, using it to push yourself strongly as town. However as it is, you're strongly pushing for a town lynch, you know this (as you're scum), and because some people found me a little scummy (for what I still have no pissing clue, apparently stuff I didn't do at night was me being scummy... because y'know, actually reading the damned QT is overrated these days, and today people failed to read because I somehow was "agreeing" with Anti, despite the blatant obvious), you've started pushing for my lynch and will run the whole "yeah, but he did seem scummy" card after, while still appearing town.

Balls to it, I'm unlikely to get others to agree with me, but whatever.

unvote; vote: Glork

[PranaDevil]

It's possible it's either a retaliation effect from a night action (Glork's stated he didn't have one, but then if he's scum, he wouldn't state he had one. Plus he had that extra vote on him through the day phase, and that's not landed on someone else either), or someone else went after him.

I note that we lost 2 players day one, and it seemed only 1 on day two. Of course, Starbuck's Doom kill shows that there were 2 kills on night 2, just one was delayed.

This means there's either two scum teams, or we have a town vig who's going off in all the wrong directions. Or we may have an SK as well.

All I know is that Glork seems very very quick to try and force pressure in my direction even when nothing has been said to warrant it. Just note his switch from Anti to me, there was no actual reason for the switch at that point in time.

[PranaDevil]

Setup speculation- Or IIoA, to be honest, I don't really know the difference. Both are scummy though.

There's been a fair bit of setup speculation from others too.

Changing his vote a lot- He keeps changing between people, and almost all of his votes seem forced.
Whenever anybody points out that his votes aren't making sense, he changes again.

I'm voting for people who seem scummy, and Glork's continual pressure is getting ridiculous, and he seemed to be the most pro-town player, and on a think about it, there's been absolutely zero reason for that to be the case.

The worst thing by far is him with the doom countdown. He's far too willing to kill himself, and then does not seem surprised at all when Starbuck dies. I'm pretty sure that he knew about doom in advance, and was attempting to look better while killing a townie at the same time. This is without a doubt the scummiest thing all game.

Read the post immediately after my "hammer" on the doom countdown. Starbuck stated (at the wrong damned time no less) that she had recieved the PM saying she was hit by Doom (the numbers above her head), thus it wasn't all that surprising when she died. Anyone who was surprised would also know nothing about Final Fantasy.

His comment on rolefishing was also strange.

Unfortunately, there's no bites.

He later said that he meant "Unfortunately for Antifinity," but it really seems like he's saying "Aww, I wanted people to out their roles." That would be a really stupid thing to do, but I can't actually think of any reasons he would post that as town.

It's called sarcasm.

[PranaDevil]

Changing his vote a lot- He keeps changing between people, and almost all of his votes seem forced.
Whenever anybody points out that his votes aren't making sense, he changes again.

I'm voting for people who seem scummy, and Glork's continual pressure is getting ridiculous, and he seemed to be the most pro-town player, and on a think about it, there's been absolutely zero reason for that to be the case.

Could you restate the second half of this? It doesn't make much sense to me...

Basically, Glork appeared to be very, very pro-town, and people had seemed to accept that based on "he was blinded, and had one vote on him at the start of day 1" and it seems he's almost been cleared of being scum.

Strictly speaking, there's no reason for Glork to be considered as pro-town at the moment.

The worst thing by far is him with the doom countdown. He's far too willing to kill himself, and then does not seem surprised at all when Starbuck dies. I'm pretty sure that he knew about doom in advance, and was attempting to look better while killing a townie at the same time. This is without a doubt the scummiest thing all game.

Read the post immediately after my "hammer" on the doom countdown. Starbuck stated (at the wrong damned time no less) that she had recieved the PM saying she was hit by Doom (the numbers above her head), thus it wasn't all that surprising when she died. Anyone who was surprised would also know nothing about Final Fantasy.

You're misunderstanding me. I'm saying that I think you knew it would kill Starbuck, but you pretended that you thought you were killing yourself. Then you were like "Oh, oops, I killed somebody."

No pretending about it, I thought I WAS killing myself, once Starbuck posted that my actual thought was "well why the smeg did she not say "guys, I recieved this PM"? She doesn't need to know about Final Fantasy to have said that, so as far as I was concerned we wound up losing someone who was no big loss anyway purely through that fact.

Yeah, it sucks we lost town, and it sucks that I couldn't take myself out in a way that benefits the town. It's stupid to attempt to claim I meant something from what I actually meant. Of course, when I eventually flip you'll all see that I was being honest.

His comment on rolefishing was also strange.

Unfortunately, there's no bites.

He later said that he meant "Unfortunately for Antifinity," but it really seems like he's saying "Aww, I wanted people to out their roles." That would be a really stupid thing to do, but I can't actually think of any reasons he would post that as town.

It's called sarcasm.

I guess I'll accept this, but if you're being sarcastic, please try to make it more obvious. Tone doesn't carry over the internet.

Far as I was concerned, it couldn't have been made more obvious, y'know... considering I voted for Anti... Logic dictates I saw it in a negative light.

[PranaDevil]

Prana, to sum up why I feel you're a decent scum candidate:
-- You had that terrible and hypocritical attack on me early D1 (Post 108),
-- You've been quite wagonly. Iece wagon, Zodiark wagon, Antifinity wagon... really every significant pile of votes we've had, you've been a part of
-- Also guilty of Burden of Proficiency towards me ("you've done a lot of talking, but haven't gotten us far")

What pushed my vote back to you was your timing/positioning on the Antifinity wagon, combined with my earlier sentiments towards you.

To be honest, I entered the game thinking I knew enough about Square games to at least roll with it, and quickly found others knew much, much more than me. So going with the flow became a bit easier, especially when good cases were made. Now if agreeing with a case is scummy, then by all means, throw the book at me, but isn't the point of making a case to try and convince others?

Either way, I can assure you I'm not scum. But then I guess even scum would say that.

On a completely different note, I feel like we're in a bit of a rut here. The following people need to contribute significantly more:
MehPlusRawr
JP Salazar
inHim
bv

I'd like to highlight BV a little, actually, as his most recent post was pretty horrible. There's was a ton going on when he decided to "check in" -- the Wolf/Tidus thing, Prana votes, there was plenty to comment about the Zodiark wagon at the end of yesterday... but he just kinda dumps a wagon vote on Chrono, says peace out, and hasn't posted since then. It's opportunistic, it's :nothelpful: at best, it's selective, and it highlights BV's presence in this game as a whole. There's a very decent chance that BV is lurkish scum just kinda skating by. He was also 7th on the Zodiark wagon D1, which is right in that range from it being "legit wagon" to "probable lynch."

But I'm in agreement with this, in regards to people needing to post more. WorseExcuse appears to have more or less vanished, and pops in every so often blaming the "other partner" for not showing up, which would be a great little tactic for active lurking in all honesty.

[PranaDevil]

I agree that it more or less appeared that he knew he wasn't going to die in the case he would be the one to cast the last vote, so Prana, in case I've missed it in the last pages, what made you vote?

Exactly what I stated at the time, I was of the vision (as others were as well) that the Doom countdown would take out whoever cast the final vote. I knew people suspected me heavily, and rather than continuing to have town firing off in the wrong direction, I could be beneficial to town by taking one on the chin for us. If Starbuck had posted earlier that she had that PM, I wouldn't have been so ready to vote when I did.

His vote on Glork feels OMGUS, especially if there are better alternatives available.

If from my entire reason for voting him is "OMGUS" then you've not read it thoroughly enough

Later admits to setup speculation "but others do it as well". Never been a good argument.

I was not aware speculating on how things could well be was scummy. In fact I've never known it be scummy, why should it be scummy to consider things such as whether there's more than one lightning based character and the like? I'd class it more as "looking at the problem logically", but that's just me.

"Of course, when I eventually flip you'll all see that I was being honest. "

Appeal to emotion?

Only if you're deliberately attempting to stretch it that far. It's obviously not.

[PranaDevil]

If a majority agree it would benefit the town for me to claim, I would. Although if people aren't even sure if good guys in games = good guys in this game, then I'm not sure how much good it would do. But that's for others to decide, not me.

---

Vote Count:

Antifinity: 4

(Iecerint, FC Groningen, dramonic, Chronopie)

PranaDevil: 3

(MehPlusRawr, JPSalazar, Antifinity)

Chronopie: 2

(Devotress, bv310)

Iecerint: 2

(KDub, WorseExcuse)

wolframnhart: 1

(bill1148)

Glork: 1

(PranaDevil)

bv310: 1

(Glork)

WorseExcuse: 0

(wolframnhart)

Not Voting:

DragonsofSummer
inHimshallibe

Lynch:

9 votes.

Deadline:

May 16th - 3:00 PM EST

[PranaDevil]

Pretty sure I said that's how I thought it was gonna run too, but there have been others saying otherwise "because it's a Kise game" or something, soooo...

Still, 'tis up to others if they want me to claim or not.

[PranaDevil]

If you only want to see what Glork has posted, at the bottom of each post there's three drop down boxes, click the one that says "All users" and select Glork before clicking Go. You can then see all the posts he's made in order. (Same, of course, goes for anyone else).

Thus when someone says they're looking at somebody in ISO, that's what they mean.

[PranaDevil]

Balls to this.

unvote; vote: Antifinity

Either you want to pressure JP, or you don't, you have about half the game thinking you're scummy, and you come in and create a strawman on JP as though trying to draw attention away from yourself, only to then turn around and vote Chrono with absolutely no reasoning as to why?

This on top of the fact that you were trying to rolefish earlier... I'm not buying you're town.

[PranaDevil]

Nice strawman, watch it doesn't catch fire y'hear?

Incidentally, the two very early posts are just that... very early, everyone's getting a feel for everyone, and you should be listening to everyone, just because you suspect someone doesn't mean they can't provide a good point, and at that point in the game, that's also far more likely to happen, thus, throw it out.

As for the last two, I still feel Glork is scummy, but that lynch is going nowhere fast, and Anti has been acting damned scummy constantly.

And... surely that's also logical? Or have I missed something and the logical play is to pick someone and repeatedly tunnel on them to the end of the game?

[PranaDevil]

The strawman is all of it, to be honest. But most noteably your comment about my post 5.

However, I AM suspicious of Glork, that's not to say he can't make good points at times, (even if not in my direction). There's also the fact that even if he's scum, he'll have to pick up on scummy things his partners do at times as well.

I honestly don't see how me being wary of basically everyone at this stage in the game is a bad thing.

[PranaDevil]

Considering he couldn't vote, and had a vote on him as well, it somewhat made sense (and still kinda does). Doesn't mean I trust him as town. Nor 100% did so at any point (though I think I may have, nearer the start, stated I think he's possibly town).

Opinions and viewpoints change during a game, it's the people who don't change their views at all that, personally, are scummiest (Outside of those diving on any bandwagon going of course).

[PranaDevil]

If you mean that I "felt he may be being honest about that bit" then yes, but there's a massive difference between out and out trusting someone, and believing that they may have recieved a PM.

[PranaDevil]

You've been away for 5 days, and are only poking your head in to say you don't want to lynch Anti... considering Anti's been suspicious to a few people, how's about giving us a reason that Anti's not scummy enough to lynch?

Plus saying you have nothing to comment on after 5 days is poor by anyone's standards, that's 5 full days there has been activity that you can at least comment on.

[PranaDevil]

You can't make a post that basically says "hai, this person not as scummy as these, bai!" That's blatant activity posting, in fact, in an ISO of you, you've had best part of a week previously where you vanished, (well a full week bar a couple of hours), then returned, made some postings, and disappeared again until today.

[PranaDevil]

Bill, way to overblow my comment. I said you disappeared for lengthy periods twice. If you're going to vanish a V/LA is just common courtesy (and it explains why you're not posting, as opposed to just looking like you're lurking deliberately). I couldn't give a toss what you're doing in your personal life, just what you're doing (or not) as pertains to this game.

(But to clarify, I don't mean drop your personal life stuff in favour of this, because end of the day, a game is a game, and real life will always come first regardless of the game in question).

Also Glork, while I agree there's likely 2 scum factions, I remember reading a thread in MD a little while back about town Vigs, and shooting on N0. Personally it's a poor decision to shoot N0 as you have no clue who you're hitting, but it did seem that some players pretty much push for N0 vig kills. So it's not entirely out of the realms of possibility, just requires a player with very poor judgement.

[PranaDevil]

I wouldn't put it past the blinder to stop firing just to muddle the situation. Taking away a single player's vote isn't very useful until endgame, anyway.

WIFOM right here.

"I'm going to show up scum, but the real scum will stop shooting, and so you wont know anyway" Nice little way of getting people not to vote for you really.

I'm still not sure if Iec is scum or not... but by christ that post stands out like a sore thumb (or in my case, a sore tooth... damned toothaches).

[PranaDevil]

Isn't all we're waiting for is "what word will be used to describe Iec when lynched"? If so... why does it matter? We'll find out "when" he's lynched anyway. Just sounds more like a chance of WIFOM again.

[PranaDevil]

I'm actually thinking we may have 2 different scum teams, or possible one SK as well.

I was also going to say we did have 2 players killed Night 2, but we've got Doom today as well, which means, essentially, 3 deaths.

Could the Doom thing be a Vig in that sense? (It's often used by the player characters in Final Fantasy at any rate). My reasoning is it wasn't used in the N0 section, which means it could be someone who deliberately held back then.

Also, I agree with not voting until we're all positive of where to go, it may not prevent Devotress dying outright, but at the very least it keeps her around an extra day, which is much better than letting her die outright.

I'm also not happy with trying to predict the character that would be Marilith's team mates as it's possible that those others aren't even here. It's worth the information being there by all means, but I don't think we should get caught up on assuming that they are around when we could wind up barking up the wrong tree.

So all that being said, I'm in agreement with bill in regards to Anti being suspect thanks to the notes stuff, it sounds like it should be a roleblock type of role, and therefore is possible that that is why only 2 people died (normal death and Doom) in the previous day.

Also, because we FoS anyone, hold off on it just in case Kise winds up adding some Doom countdown to those as well (I didn't notice if he did or didn't in the previous day), if he does, then we should just signal who we wish to lynch by stating it without an actual vote.

For now, I'd be happy with an Anti lynch though.

[PranaDevil]

Glork, you missed me saying I'd be happy with an Anti lynch (I didn't FoS in case it upped the Doom counter, I'd rather play it on the safe side this time round all things considered. Now we know it doesn't, I'll add it here)

FoS: Anti

and Meh, mind actually saying WHY my post from this day phase (the whole one of them so far) was scummy? If you're going to make comments, back them up.

[PranaDevil]

I'm considering the possibility that inHim got a partially damning result on Prana. In his very first post he states he has a "stone cold lock" on Prana as scum, and he maintains this position throughout his posts.

Prana point-blank tells him that he's an information role, and inHim denies it (as any good info role should do when confronted with their investigated guilty), but his language and adamancy make it VERY clear that Prana is scum and that inHim wants Prana dead.

UnFoS: KDub
FoS: Prana

for now... Prana's play has seemed off at times anyway, so I'm content with a bit more pressure here.

I have no idea whether InHim tried using his ability on me, I said he was likely an investigative role thanks to the fact that he said he had that "stonecoldlock" on me, despite the fact if I'm scum, Kise sent the wrong PM to me, and I know nothing about it. It seemed logical that I would assume it to be more than just him thinking I'm scum, what with the stone cold lock rubbish. I also haven't the faintest idea what he would get from my character as a thief either, so I can't even consider why, if he used his ability, he would think I was scum.

and Meh, you said I was "just as scummy" which, to me, indicates you are trying to say I have done something to show I was just as scummy, as opposed to just thinking I was scum previously and it carrying over.

[PranaDevil]

I have serious doubts a roleblocker is pro-town

Why? I hate this "a roleblocker is mafia" viewpoint some people have, and more people should be modding with them in pro-town roles as well so we can shake of this theory that roleblockers shouldn't be on the town's side.

Lastly, for those who think me getting "The Music" is grounds for a lynch, in any mafia game I've ever heard of, blocking one goon doesn't negate the night kill.

It depends on which goon sends the night kill as far as I'm aware. If Goon A sends the night kill, and it's Goon A who's roleblocked. Goon B doesn't turn up and go "okay, I'll do it instead", it gets roleblocked.

and Glork, like I say, I have no clue what InHim was going for, HOWEVER you have just admitted that thief investigations aren't necessarily damning, especially in a game which pretty much depends on the character you are. I have no clue what he'd have got from me (fur perhaps, I dunno), but if he did come after me, then he's managed to get the wrong end of the stick, or he just felt I was scummy by his reasoning (which is what he said later no less), which means his thief stuff is pointless as he didn't use it on me.

Either way, I'd rather us actually lynch scum today, rather than town, all things considered, and Anti's above comments don't sit well.

[PranaDevil]

Anti... you only know of those few scum aligned roles? Seriously?

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... town_roles

Check out that on the wiki, and tell me a pro-town roleblocker wouldn't be useful just based on that alone.

Now consider that we, potentially, have scum passing out Blind, Doom, Night Kills... and tell me how a town roleblocker wouldn't be beneficial in stopping one of those.

A town roleblocker is useful, and in this game wouldn't surprise me at all with the amount of stuff we seem to have flying around.

[PranaDevil]

Much as I hate to say it... Glork makes a pretty good point with all of that.

Also, I'm not liking the people who are saying Doom was likely only useable once it became preventable. There's nothing to substantiate that, and just makes it sound like they're trying to keep any finger pointing away from them (like Anti).

[PranaDevil]

But there's at least 3 seperate "groups" (Even if we consider one as a vig) that killed last night, that or scum have multiple kills, as last night we've had Electrocuted, Drowned, AND Doom.

I'm just not buying that a scum team will have more than one kill per night.

[PranaDevil]

You can get behind lynching me, but I'll gladly roleclaim just to prove I'm not scum and that I'm not trying to give the scum a free daykill every day (which is probably the dumbest assumption I've heard yet), but simply getting the ball rolling on something to save you from Doom. The FoS game takes too much time, because we'll have people jumping back and forth. I think it's a waste, when we can just jump right to it.

It's really not an assumption at all. It's kind of a fact.
You pushing a vote out this early (before we reached a majority descision) is saying "Everyone has to agree with me or scum get a free day kill". You're trying to hold the town hostage to voting out the person you want, which is a bad thing to do. There is very little room for us to vote anyone but antifinity now.

Counters at 9, with 8 to lynch. Say people decide they don't want to lynch antifinity. So they all start voting for Prana(for examples sake).

8 votes for prana would put us at 1 on the counter.
At any point while people are voting for prana, he just has to see what's going on and cast one vote. If he casts one vote while we're piling on him, it's a 0 on the doom counter.

I'm in full agreement with the basis of this. Though I'd rather you didn't put my name there. I'm pro-town, and, much as I'd rather see someone else lynched (and I agree, Anti is suspicious, but JP's actions there put him at number one for my money), I can guarentee I wouldn't try that (of course, my word in saying that is meaningless, as even scum would say the same and as they would obviously know when they were going to be voted, they would throw a vote out regardless of what they already said).

The fact JP is already stating he would happily role claim throws out massive red flags to me as well, for all we know you've been provided safe claims anyway, so that doesn't work well for me at all.

I'm still suspicious of Anti though, for all the earlier reasons, and JP's actions don't diminish that, as if we have multiple scum teams then JP could have just felt Anti was scum, and therefore wants to eliminate a rival scum member by, essentially, holding the town hostage.

Also JP, you say Anti's already "on the slab", but what happens if, for instance, town decided to go a different way? I know a few people have felt I should be lynched too, so what if two people voted Anti (yourself and another person who just chose to follow your lead), but then people decided Anti wasn't the best lynch before he reached majority, and I was? That would mean they choose to either lynch Anti (someone they feel "might" be pro-town at that point, I'm just assuming here), or lynch someone else they feel is scum, but guarentee losing Devotress at the same time.

This is why the FOS was being used, so there wouldn't come a point where town was split.

unFoS: Anti; FoS: JP

[PranaDevil]

Is this just a big roundabout way of saying that although you fucked up, we should thank you for giving us a bit more leeway with our voting after a certain pillock went and voted early, which almost spelled doom (pun intended) for Devotress?

[PranaDevil]

Why wouldn't a scum JP do that, then say it's everyone "elses" fault if Devotress doesn't survive because of it?

The fact that he's come straight out and stated that Anti should be voted regardless of everyone elses views as we go, and has (seemingly) ignored everyone elses play is ridiculous to even consider as being pro-town.

Also the statement that he's frustrated with the speed of play is ridiculous as it was during a weekend, when forum posting in general is down anyway, and we all had a system we were using to try and keep someone alive.

If it's frustrated anything, it sounds more like frustrated scum who was hoping that Devotress would be dead, not be (possibly) surviving the day phase and staying alive outright.

Glork, why do you think a pro-town JP would ignore everything that has been said, and agreed on, to just go it alone and ignore the majorities views?

[PranaDevil]

Glork, you're an idiot. Pro-town possibly, but an idiot still based on how you've read what I've said (and how you're missing things).

Now you're putting words into JP's mouth that he never said and probably never would say. You can't fucking make a case against somebody because he "will then say it's everyone else's fault" because you can't predict what he would or wouldn't say.

That's not what I said, and you are, in fact, putting words in my mouth, I asked "why he wouldn't do that", not that "he will do that". Please not to be misrepresenting what I be saying.

Fucking go back and read his posts. JP has said on MULTIPLE occasions that the pace of this game is extremely slow. His post is PERFECTLY consistent with his past behavior, which has NOTHING to do with weekends. You're making shit up again.

So because he feels the game is running slow, that gives him perfect reasoning to ignore the procedure that we had decided upon to keep Devo alive?

As for weekends, are you somehow telling me that the games

aren't

slower of a weekend than the rest of the week? We slowed down more

at the weekend

which is when JP began bitching during this day phase about it being slow.

Patience is a virtue and all that jazz.

Why do you say this? What evidence is there that he was 'hoping devo would have died already'? The "Don't vote" plan has been in place since Starbuck died YESTERDAY, so don't give me any bullshit about him expecting us to have voted.

Because that's how it "appears" to me, y'know... in regards to how it looks. Which is "why I said it", christ on a bike and the twelve disciples on a twelve seater tandem. He blatantly, and outright IGNORED everything that had been discussed this day phase in favour of throwing a vote on Anti, despite the fact a clear majority had NOT been reached. Yet he claimed that it was obvious Anti would be lynched.

How in the sweet fuck is that pro-town in any way, shape, or form?

Again, read over his posts from yesterday. HE IS FRUSTRATED BECAUSE PEOPLE KEEP TALKING ABOUT OTHER SHIT AND NOT GETTING TO LYNCHING SCUMS.

Yawn, then how's about he actually helps find them then, rather than jump in, cast a stupid vote which either proves he's ignoring posts, or proves he couldn't care less about what the majority feel is best for town. Either way it does not help town, and it doesn't help scum hunt.

Considering the Doom counter, it was in town's best interests to work out what to do in regards to that, and THEN move onto scum hunting, more to the point, those who don't care about the fact that, y'know, if we don't play it safe we will lose a player early (and if we do play it safe, we may, potentially, keep her around). So there's your scum hunting. Scum are the only people who wouldn't want to see a player potentially saved from dying. JP has blatantly shown to not care about that by throwing out a vote despite the fact that (at the time) to then vote in any other direction would also mean Devo could likely wind up dead.

Just because someone is frustrated with a slow game does not mean "go and vote someone regardless" when we could wind up losing another player because of it that could be pro-town as well. To even attempt to class that as anything beyond scummy is just fucking ridiculous.

[PranaDevil]

Before I make a move then, if Glork is sure that Prana is scum, should I wait to unvote then re-vote for Prana?

I ask this because apparently if I make a move, everyone's jumping down my esophagus.

Glork hasn't got a clue, and is still somewhat scummy in my eyes, and has been all game.

But hey, if town want to lynch me go ahead, I would just say be wary of Glork after because he's damned sure not pro-town.

I'd also say lynch JP as well, but I'd figure that much was obvious all things considered.

and yes, you should wait to unvote, because, y'know... whether I live or get lynched, I'd like Devo to stay alive so she can (if she's pro-town at least) help town win, and unvoting and voting again will only screw that up royally. She may not survive after the lynch, but I'd definitely rather see if that's the case than never find out because someone went all vote happy.

[PranaDevil]

JP's vote was idiotic. I like Glork's case on Kdub, but Prana is scummier IMO. Anti's calling JP scum and defending Prana is also scumscumscummy.

I just realized something- If we're going to lynch scum, what's to stop the scum from voting and unvoting and running down the doom counter themselves?

I'd suggest when we know who we wish to lynch we make sure that everyone throws the votes on fast to (hopefully) prevent that.

Now... @Glork.

Looking at what you said, you're right, and I was possibly barking up the wrong tree with JP. I've wound up not thinking straight the past few days (real days, not game days ) and that's clouded my judgement (not that it's been great I'll admit).

First, apologies for the idiot comment, shouldn't be posting when frustrated as it means I wind up reading things and getting more frustrated for absolutely no reason (This be a game, not something to get frustrated over).

Second, I wanted to check if unvoting and voting counted on the Doom counter (as I hadn't really paid attention to that the previous day). I found out it did, but something else stood out.

Scrolling through to find my posts I found my post 682, which states the following:

unvote; vote: Antifinity

Either you want to pressure JP, or you don't, you have about half the game thinking you're scummy, and you come in and create a strawman on JP as though trying to draw attention away from yourself, only to then turn around and vote Chrono with absolutely no reasoning as to why?

Now, Anti's already been in my sights as scum from early on, but this reminded me that he was badly pressuring JP earlier, and now he saw a reason to just jump on JP and possibly push through his lynch based on that. Despite giving no good reasons for JP being scum earlier either.

unFoS: JP
FoS: Anti

Anti has been scummy all game, and is still deserving of being lynched in my eyes.

And reading Glork's post about Kdub, and I'm somewhat in agreement, though would want to go back over his posts myself before I hop in that direction, although the "playing the field" bit stands out to me, as town should keep their options open, there's no reason to not suspect everyone at least a small amount, and those you suspect more you push more. Plus we have more than one scum, so not "keeping your options open" is stupid. Why should a town player not point out others they feel are playing scummy?

[PranaDevil]

Go back and read the first 5 pages DTM, as I feel you've missed perhaps the biggest, most important aspect of Iec being "scum".

That is the fact he claimed a Death Miller (and flipped as a basic goon likely confirming that).

As for votes, we aren't placing ACTUAL votes because of the sodding Doom counter.

Every single vote means Devotress is closer to dying. If it wasn't for the fact you've been ignorant on the Iec issue I would say you know about the Doom counter and are playing the "I didn't know" card.

Either way, hold off the damned voting before we wipe out a player through utter idiocy.

(Edit before final posting: Damn you for beating me Glork )

[PranaDevil]

and DTM, the FoS AREN'T counting as votes, but when we reach a maximum we will pile the votes on. You've just told town (and I'm paraphrasing) "vote Anti or Prana, you have no other options unless you want Devotress to die today for sure".

(Incidentally, I don't have a scum read on Devo, and lots do on me and Anti, so I don't actually mind the situation so much, though would rather Anti went more than myself what with me not being scum and all, but even in the event of my lynch, at least town have removed a suspicious player from their list of suspects).

Zork was only "confirmed townie" after he snuffed it as well, prior to his lynch he was doing zero scum hunting, but was posting lots of game flavour, and that came off as scummy. It's not like he was confirmed town prior to his lynch here.

[PranaDevil]

1st, a SK IS a scum group as far as I'm concerned, it's a "scum group" on his own side. Which means he's a threat to the town. Ergo, still a seperate group in that sense.

2nd Nobody knows whether Devotress is town, or is scum in another group seperate to those who cast Doom or anything yet.

We DO know she's not lying, because JP's vote has a number under it that was placed there by the mod, your post will do so as soon as Kise catches up. When the counter reaches 0, Devotress dies.

and if you "didn't read" Why in the sweet blue smeg DID YOU VOTE?!

Wait until you've ACTUALLY caught up before sodding voting. You've already seen that people weren't voting, but were using FoS, so why did you outright refuse to find out WHY before voting?

FoS: DTM

[PranaDevil]

I don't see Glork attacking you for your attack on me, I see him calling you out on dumbass voting and other stupid comments.

[PranaDevil]

I'm FOS'ing you, DTM, because you acknowledged we were posting FoS's, but yet deliberately chose not to actually look into WHY before voting.

Now, I admit you could be playing really poor as town. But you could also be scum deliberately playing that way. The fact you knew everyone was posting FoS on people means you knew there has to be a reason. This should have been checked before almost signing Devotress' death warrant.

Anyone else in here ever played with DTM before, (preferably when he's replaced in) and does he normally ignore any and all information before voting? (As voting without actually knowing all information is scummy at worst, and stupid at best).

And I'm "looking out for Devotress" because I see no reason to potentially lose a town player through player stupidity. Had I known that Starbuck had been Doomed the day before (and not the thought of "whoever makes it hit zero dies") I'd have strongly advised we all hold off at the time as well.

[PranaDevil]

Are you even reading anything DTM?

If I vote, that 100% gives town the option of me, you or Anti to lynch. ZERO other options are on the table without risking killing two town players this day.

What part of "Voting will kill Devotress" are you missing here?

ANd she's not confirmed. Why in the smeg should that matter?

Are you saying it's perfectly fine to let someone die "to spark discussion"?

You do NOT need a vote to spark discussion, you could just post, your post would have sparked discussion without the vote, the vote was just moronic.

[PranaDevil]

Prana, because of the fact that Devotess could have been targeted by a pro-town player with doom and Devotess could be scum. The fact that you are treating her as town here. I don't see how we've confirmed her alignment, just confirmed that she's doomed.

We DO NOT KNOW, is it better to err on the side of caution or just say "balls to it" and risk losing someone through what could be a scum kill?

1. Devote is doomed. We've been discussing this. But before you cry about town deaths you should realize that admitting Devote is town is scummy considering we don't even know her alignment.

I have said potentially. Starbuck WAS town, Devotress could be as well. What part of the word potentially do you not understand?

2. Because Devotee isn't confirmed, you shouldn't be crying about how she's going to die and town is going to lose 2 players. Your attack on me based on this is a panic attack. She's doomed. Votes are needed to be put down. This was before I knew what the doom counter

Votes can be put down AFTER we've got a majority of FoS's. You also have admitted to not reading the thread, therefore you've also admitted to voting WITHOUT knowing what is going on beyond votes (of which you don't know what's going on with again, because you claim to have not known about Iec claiming Death Miller).

What part of read the smegging thread do you not understand?

3. Hello, since when did I say I knew that voting = killing someone. Voting = acting on something. I voted, I acted on my suspicions. At least link your thoughts together.

If you think I'm actively trying to get devotee dead, then I must have read the thread. You should link this to say: DTM is lying and knows he's "doomed" us all. Har har. But you aren't. You're just attacking me for voting without knowing that doom = death when you vote. That's not scummy.

I'm saying you knew that people were posting FoS's instead of voting, you stated so right in the post you voted me on. Why did you not feel it useful to find out why?

Do you realize in mafia, voting is a tool that should be used? If the doom counter wasn't there would you attack me the same way? No because I was voting someone who I thought was scummy at the time.

So we should ignore that someone could be saved from dying from what is, essentially, a night kill that takes longer to come into effect?

Am I the only one finding that scummy?

[PranaDevil]

Meaning in Lylo the doomer wins automatically. Yay. Also if it's one doom a day I have a feeling that they can stack on different people, even if we lynched before Devotee dies.

In Final Fantasy Doom disappears at the end of a battle, it's entirely possible the same thing happens in here when we end the day phase (or battle essentially). It might not, but I'd rather find out today than find out in a few days and go "oh, we could have saved those players and been better off for it"

Quesiton:

When did Starbuck claim doom again? or Dark?

Immediately following my vote that put it to zero, unfortunately.

[PranaDevil]

What the hell are you blabbering on about?

You knew FoS was being used. Why did you not CHECK WHY before voting?

Are you suggesting everyone should just vote instead of FoS right now? (As you've said I could vote you instead... despite knowing why I refuse to).

And I'm saying, now, you want Devotress dead (use the right name too please), because despite being REPEATEDLY told by myself and Glork at least (and I think possibly Dramonic and Chrono, without checking), you are still suggesting I should use a vote, not a FoS, and are suggesting we should outright ignore the fact Doom is on someone.

They are all "effective arguments" as well. You acknowledged the FoS, but refused to look into why.

You voted, and got called out on it, and rather than holding your hands up, you have refused to acknowledge it was a stupid thing to do. The facts are right there in front of you, it was a stupid thing to do.

Right now, I don't care that you find me scummy, because your play is ridiculous and you've not even read the smegging thread, how you find me based solely off votes, and my response to your ignorance means nothing to me. I'm not trying to convince you I'm town. I'm trying to convince you that your play was stupid. I don't need to convince others of that, everyone else knows your play was stupid.

[PranaDevil]

Your reason for not checking why nobody was voting is "I wanted to see Prana's reaction"?

I don't even care you're voting for me, I honestly don't, you could have voted for Anti (someone I would be happy to see lynched), and I would rip you a new asshole for the stupidity in doing so.

No, voting "normally" isn't stupid. Voting NOW is stupid. The fact you are deliberately trying to claim I've said voting at all is stupid, is blatantly misrepresenting me, and trying to make my statements towards you seem less.

Doom counters mean EVERYONE has to be more cautious... you realize when that counter hits zero, whoever has Doom cast on them dies (note, Starbuck was hit with it yesterday, she was TOWN, so we've already lost one town player through it). You are actively saying that we should be cautious... and at the same time saying we should vote regardless?

Are you ignoring the fact that everyone else (except JP) agreed with the tactic of FoS people first? Are you somehow saying this is SOLELY me refusing to vote? Or are you being deliberately dense about the whole thing?

And you didn't answer this:
Are you suggesting everyone should just vote instead of FoS right now?

Now... why should we be in lylo if there's 2 or 3 scum groups? We don't even know how many are IN each group if there is, then there's the fact that one of those "groups" could be an SK, and it's getting stupid. Sounds like you know more than we do in regards to that one.

and I have read, Iec (get the spelling right on people name's for christ's sake) might be lying, but considering he flipped as a basic goon, and Ultros (as others have said, as I don't know much about FF6) winds up not being evil at the end of FF6, it's entirely possible that the claim is correct.

To be entirely honest, we will also only find out once the game is over now. All we do know is Iec claimed it, flipped mafia goon, and his name claim was correct. We also know that we still have 3 kills each night, and blind is being cast on people. So Ultros cannot have been casting blind either (and he would have been the scum to be casting it if he was actual scum), so I'm inclined to believe he was a Death Miller.

[PranaDevil]

On the plus side... if he has, I'm no longer on people's suspicious lists, he shouldn't be as Odin would have to be a pro-town role (although he should be on everyone's "this boy's a fool" lists), and you can all go back tofocusing on scum (I still say Anti, if DTM is definite town because of Odin).

@Dram, if only my role was as cool as Seifer .

Though I did get Squall in the first game I ever played, so it would have been rather funny if I had been Seifer in this one.

@DTM, if I vote, I fuck the town over. If the Doom thing was no longer an issue, I would be voting you right now.

You STILL should have looked into why people were posting FoS instead of voting. Town need to know what's going on, scum wouldn't care as long as it wasn't negative against their faction.

Also, not squirming, if the mod replies I'm dead, whoopie. If the mod does sod all, then you've done even more of a scummy play than you already have been.

And I notice you've managed to botch the spelling of my name now.

[PranaDevil]

Doom would also make a crappy SK.

Endgame would actually end with no winners if it came down to 1 SK and 1 Vanilla Townie.

the SK needs the votes to activate Doom, and the townie needs a majority to lynch. Neither could realistically happen, and so we move to night, the only night action is Doom... etc.

So I doubt Doom is a SK, and while it's possible it's a Vig, it would be a very stupid Vig because of who they went for. (I admit I've not been huge fans of either Starbuck or Devotress, but then they've been voting me ).

This means it's most likely on a scum group.

[PranaDevil]

What?! Follow me here DTM.

We don't know if Devotress is scum or town. At the moment I don't think anyone finds her potential scum. By that logic we should ignore the Doom counter and let whoever is given it die without caring. Is that what you are suggesting? (I expect an answer here)

Also, we can vote, yes. However, what happens if 4 people vote in seperate directions? That means Devotress is 100% guarenteed to die. Why is that a good thing in your eyes? (I again, expect an answer).

With the kills, you're suggesting I'm saying that none of the other abilities could potentially be a vig or SK. It could, potentially, be that the Lightning is a vig/SK, the Doom is from one mafia, and the Drowned stuff from another group. I have no clue personally, others seem to have better ideas about that than I do. But Doom is definitely not likely to be a SK without making the game impossible for the SK to win.

and Glork, fair play, considering the options for lynch are slim (and my role doesn't really help nor hinder town), and I may be on the way to sliced-vil.

I'm Kjata

Just a basic vanilla though. Hence why I had no issue with scum targetting me, figured if I'm looking scummy, they might oblige and I'd help town that way.

Of course, I since realize that was stupid, asking scum to kill you just sounds like you're either scum making bad play, or (to the scum) sounds like you're a bomb or something and they wouldn't kill you anyway. That would be filed under "tips for future games" in my mental note drawer XD.

[PranaDevil]

@DTM

The "your vote is stuck" comment means "If you vote again you WILL, 100%, kill Devotress".

Why do we know this? Go and look at the previous Doom counter (yes, go research it, honestly, the game isn't about to run off into the distance if you actually do some pissing research before blundering in stupidly). I voted, I then unvoted and voted someone else specifically to get the counter to zero thinking it would be me that died, it counted as a vote.

Hence the point. You have just stated, point blank that killing Devotress would benefit town. (Although somehow stated that it doesn't if she is town... but we have no knowledge either way, just the fact that she seems town, if she seemed scummy I would have no problem ignoring the Doom counter, but she doesn't, and pretty much everyone else is in agreement here or they would be FoS'ing her).

Your claim that we should be voting and putting pressure on... what part of "when a FoS gets to a majority, we will all pile the votes on" do you keep ignoring? Nobody is ignoring people, nobody is scared of the Doom counter, everybody (well, the majority) are wanting to play it safe. That's the most logical and pro-town play to do, you are blatantly ignoring all of this and just saying that it doesn't matter to town if Devotress dies. When it matters a whole lot if she dies and flips town.

I admit, some people could be faking it, but the only people who have no need to care, would be scum.

@Devotress

I'm hoping that Kise throws out that vote of DTM's through it being wrongly formatted, purely because chrono's one that wasn't counted was all in one post, not in seperate posts. (Though it would be a nice surprise if actual back to back votes didn't count, as if we found that out, we would also know a single scum couldn't keep unvoting and voting).

@Glork

Much as I want to lynch DTM today... Adumbro makes a good point, we should find out if enough people would support an Anti lynch now to at least attempt to save Devotress.

If DTM's vote doesn't count, then different matter, and we can all vote him (though even then, I could see him throwing votes wildly just to screw over town, his play is screaming that he would do that right now).

If we all still find Anti scummy, then it might be worth still considering his lynch now, and possibly DTM's tomorrow. Even if DTM is actually the best lynch (In my mind) if we didn't have Doom to worry about.

[PranaDevil]

Well, I'm hoping DTM's vote isn't counting. In which case we can continue as we are. If it does, then I would suggest a lynch of DTM.

Of course... we also have to wait and see what Kise does in regards to Odin (which I guess is one plus point about the pillock posting a vote, as if the vote winds up counting, we'll know DTM lied about Odin as well. If he didn't lie, then he's killed one town player in me, and as good as killed you too, in which case I would consider Adumbro's point about Odin not necessarily being pro-town... I also point out in FF8 he basically attacked anyone who got to him, and thus that could be used as the flavour for making him a SK here too, as he's never really been a good guy, more a neutral in the games anyway).

Gah, thanks to DTM there's too much going on, and it's all bad (except if he's scum, as something good has come out of it, even at the risk of two town deaths).

[PranaDevil]

I actually agree that I think they would count. But if one does and the other doesn't, then it's obvious the reasoning. At the very least we'll find information out.

[PranaDevil]

I find not allowing "intended" votes to not be counted is asking for someone to instead post:

vote; player

(@Mod, not it's not bolded )

Obviously I've used ; instead of :, but as the formatting is, essentially, wrong, that vote wouldn't count, and it would be a screwy way for someone to try and win.

Anyway, this is a topic that should be reserved for MD, not this thread.

[PranaDevil]

Glork, I already said I was trying to draw the scum to attack me.

But if you want to know every part of my flavour, fine, but it means that if scum try and go for me they'll pick the one that would get through.

I'm immune to any, and all, elemental attacks. (Which I take to mean if someone tried frying my with, for instance, lightning, it wouldn't do anything and thus would make me bulletproof to all elemental based scum).

But of course, any attempt at hoping scum do that is right out the window now, ta muchly Glork.

[PranaDevil]

OK I'm caught up.

On DTMaster:
I found his initial posts to be mostly townish. He came across as genuine, and though his vote was hasty and I didn't necessarily agree with him, I didn't find him scummy. However, his second vote on Adumbro is a complete head-scratcher if he is town. He knew by that point why people shouldn't vote, yet he did it anyway? The fact that his vote didn't run down the doom counter does kinda point to him at least not being part of the faction responsible for doom, otherwise his vote was useless and just drew attention to himself.

I don't get the logic of "His vote didn't run down the doom counter, therefore he's not in the faction responsible for Doom" How does that compute?

The fact that he is HAPPY to toy with the votes and see what happens just tells me that he doesn't care about what is best for the town, and actually keeping players alive. Instead just focusing on what he wants to do. Sure, he could be a VI, but he could be scum deliberately acting like a prize plank and hoping he gets away with it.

UnFoS everyone I'm FoS'ing
H, F, F, BoS: DTM

(That's Hands, Feet, Face and Bollocks of suspicion, for the record).

There's no way whatsoever DTM is a town role. I'm actually starting to wonder if he is the Doom caster, and is frustrated that town may have found a way to prevent him killing anymore in game, and so is struggling to get everyone to just ignore the Doom counter and allow scum a free kill every night.

DTM needs lynching today.

Also DTM, can you explain what was up with your fake Odin summon? Were you trying to force Prana to claim? This, combined with your recent attempts at messing with the doom countdown is reckless and anti-town.

Anti: what is your opinion of DTMaster?

I'm not moving my FoS until Anti answers this.

We can still get a lynch and save Devotress today, as long as nobody else throws down a vote before we've decided.

Preview edit:
Wow, this game is moving fast today. Good catch Glork, I admit I didn't really see much on the Prana case up to this point, but those posts you linked pretty clearly implies that he is breadcrumbing bulletproof. I would like to hear his response.[/quote]

[PranaDevil]

Apologies for botching that, I forgot to delete the bottom part of the post I was quoting (just noticed that), bugger.

I stop after the suspicion, in case anyone gets confused.

[PranaDevil]

DTM, you're still an idiot, you've decided, off your own back, to "test" the Doom counter. Are you seriously that fucking dense to not realize that you are giving scum a free kill if that doom counter counts down because of your actions?

Secondly, get my fucking name right, I don't think you've routinely got someone's name right yet, and being that all you need to is actually READ the name (or hit quote) that makes me even less inclined to believe you're competant at anything.

Third:

This post goes against your first goal. You're not doing a good job in drawing in night kills

Two things on this, first of all the post you quoted came AFTER I tried drawing in the night kill (are you keeping up here?)
Secondly, I have already admitted that I botched it, and in hind sight I wouldn't try it as I did there again.

You are either too dense to understand what I'm saying, or deliberately ignoring it.

As for you not having an element, I couldn't care less, I am, in essence, all elements. I don't give any when voting, and have no night actions, but any element based stuff used on me will not work (so anyone who is element based will not add additional votes to my vote count).

You've also provided no information to back up your stance on the "Summons are fake claims for scum" bollocks either (though the fact that you're at best a VI, and at worst a scum, means nobody is likely to take you seriously anyway). You're basically trying to say that you are right, and everybody else in the game must be wrong.

Also, you earlier stated that you find it strange that people are discussing what characters could be in the game, but not working out who they belong to...

I have no clue where the hell you were going with that one DTM. Are you somehow saying we should be trying to work out which character each player is? Seriously? All we need know is who the scum is and lynch the scum.

As it stands, you are scum at worst, or (if Doom does end at the end of the day) willing to give scum a free kill each day by ignoring logic.

Finally, who's thoughts want finishing? I see nobody needing to finish any thoughts.

[PranaDevil]

you're an idiot if you think I was "squirming" under your "pressure". That much is blatantly obvious.

I AM however, calling you out on being a smeg head.

I also have no thoughts to finish. If you meant that post in which I botched the quoting stuff and forgot to delete the rest of the post I quoted. Then you need to open your eyes and actually read.

Also, it IS anti-town to fake a an ability. That benefitted town in no way, nor did your votes (because what if they HAD meant the doom counter started up? "oh well"? That seems to be your take on the entire issue.

[PranaDevil]

I couldn't give two shits about what that link tells you.

I'm telling you what my PM tells me.

[PranaDevil]

And yes, if scum had tried to attack me (as, at the time, I thought they had), and I had defence against ALL ELEMENTAL ATTACKS. That would mean that any ELEMENATL ATTACK that had been used against me would have, thus, FAILED.

It's not bulletproof, it's protection against certain types of attack.

[PranaDevil]

But of course Dram being completely stupid has guarenteed it's me or Anti or we take Devotress with us.

Congratulations Dram, you're now, as far as I'm concerned, regardless of your "claim" of Ramuh, just as scummy as DTM in my eyes.

Glork I think is town but barking up the wrong tree. Or pissing up it, something or other, but he damned sure didn't think that logic through.

[PranaDevil]

Where did I lie about my role?

[PranaDevil]

DTM, shut up, because you're not even following the pissing thread. There's no bulletproof to my role beyond me absorbing elemental attacks (therefore making them useless against me), I have zero actual abilities. None, nadda, zilch.

You on the other hand are a prize plank who has screwed up the entire day by barrelling in throwing votes, and basically condeming Devotress through utter idiocy.

[PranaDevil]

Not saying that Prana isn't acting ridiculously scummy and shouldn't be lynched ASAP, but just wanted to point it out.

I want to know how I'm "acting scummy" here.

Glork's gone skitzo based on my earlier wish for scum to attack me, and my later claim (which he asked for).

So here's the timeline (without specific posts, as I really don't have time to go digging out the posts, but do an ISO on me and you'll find out).

1 - I begin by saying I want scum to attack me at night.

2 - There appears to be less kills that night than the previous night, I (wrongly it turned out) assumed that meant scum had gone after me.

3 - I state I'm a vanilla (I am, if I'm lynched my role will even say vanilla). I do not wish to reveal ALL information at this stage, so if scum decide to kill me, it might save them wiping someone out (logical thinking right there)

4 - Glork forces me to say more, and so I have to state that in addition to the basic vanilla role name, I also have the "absorbs elemental attacks" part of my role.

Is anyone at all going to argue the logic of where I was going?

I've admitted I screwed up trying to get the scum to go after me the first time around. It then seemed that with the DTM idiocy, my "townieness" would go up in peoples views, and scum might see me as worth taking out. Thus revealing that I may be able to block some of their kills would have been severely detrimental to town (does ANYONE wish to disagree with that one? In fact, does anyone actually feel it's pro-town to admit point blank that scum cannot kill you with elemental attacks?).

As it was, Glork forced my hand to admitting that scum couldn't kill me with elemental based attacks, which means if they wish to kill me now, it's 100% easy to do, and if they only have elemental attacks at the time, they'll know not to attack me regardless.

So outside of making a stupid play (which I wouldn't do in future) I don't see what the issue there is.

[PranaDevil]

Being that if I am not lynched today, we could be risking losing another townie, I ask everyone to vote for me, my reasons here are twofold.

I know I'm town, but regardless of that I'm somehow viewed as being "obv scum" to certain people who aren't using their brains.

While I don't feel Glork is scum, I feel he's playing a stupid game and not actually paid attention to things. After today people should look at DTM and get him out fast, possibly the same with Dram. Glork could be scum, because he seems willing to ignore facts, so keep that in consideration in the future town.

vote: PranaDevil

Hopefully this will at least save Devotress and town will also know if Doom is stopped by hitting night phase.

5

[PranaDevil]

and bugger, it says Elemental Townie. Though I may as well be vanilla.

Either way, get me lynched and let's see if we can save Devo.

[PranaDevil]

Oh hey, may aswell put this here.

vote Prana

If I'm not mistaken prana can just vote me and I die if he's scum, so i'll just get my:
good playing with you all
bah go town


out of the way now.

The one bonus with me going, is that I wont be doing that.

Actually, make that two bonuses, as we get to find out if Doom can be countered by getting to night, and we can prevent it's usefullness from here on in.

Also, being as I'm sodding off for the night shortly (and I may well be swinging from a rope by the time I wake up), I'll just say:

Go town!

[PranaDevil]

vote Prana

this will also confirm my hypthosis on the doom counter. Gonna wait for that red text

No it wont, we already know now that if you vote, then unvote and vote before someone else does, the counter will not change thanks to your stupidity.

We also know that if you vote, then someone else votes, and then you unvote and vote again, that the counter

will

change because it did so with me when it was on Starbuck.

If you had actually bothered paying attention at any point since joining us, you would already know this.

[PranaDevil]

EBWOP

Also, DTM, Kise doesn't need to "catch up" as he would still post it after I'm hammered anyway thanks to the fact he's a competant mod. The fact you are asking people to wait is scummy.

[PranaDevil]

Kise stated when he made Chrono voteless that he would change the majority needed to lynch to 7 instead.

[PranaDevil]

Followed this from start to finish (the dead players QT is fun too ).

I have to say, absolutely amazing play by Glork there, especially nearer the end when he had sealed the game up after it looked like an almost guarenteed Arch Fiends win.

Worst town play was easily me for my complete fuck up of a claim, had I gone and looked at my role prior to the claim I'd have seen the whole "Elemental Townie" stuff and realized I

was

bulletproof essentially, the fact I said otherwise made me a guarenteed lynch, as opposed to someone impossible to kill.

Easily the most fun game I've had to read as it's gone on though, and again, massive props to Glork for his play near the end. And of course Bill for doom'ing the other scum, so ta muchly for that one .

[PranaDevil]

PD screwed up his claim IIRC. So.

Nah, my claim was perfect. Everyone else screwed up.

[PranaDevil]

1. You have to look at all of PD's claims. He left out the bulletproof part once. That was where he screwed up.

No.

That was one part where I screwed up, the others were... well, the rest of my claim pretty much.

[PranaDevil]

Also regarding elements, me being Elemental Townie, and obviously not a basic human character, meant I assumed not all element based characters could be scum (I also forgot that theres the whole "provide with a safe claim" stuff, which was why I defended the Ramuh claim). I'd also figured we may have mages and the like who could cast some kind of spells, and thus I would be safe from those too.

The reason I never said bulletproof was because a) I didn't feel I was completely bulletproof, and b) Tying into that, I felt I was vulnerable to Doom, which wouldn't make me completely safe.

Incidentally, as Doom isn't (as far as I'm aware) an elemental attack, would that have worked on me Kise?

[PranaDevil]

I don't think it's so much as "don't play too smart" but more "don't play too smart in knowing what scum can have". It did pretty much boil down to being yourself or Anti as scum from what I could tell, and Glork's idea at the end had the game won for town in either situation, of your team you were the least scummy. It's just unfortunate that the rest of your team didn't so much get bussed, as throw themselves in front of it by the end of the game.

[PranaDevil]

Anywho, Prana's more correct.

Had to wait until after the game, but I said something right eventually. XD