Last Will Mafia II (Over)

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Vote: millar13

His Marathon Mafia games are halirious.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

How public should we make the wills?

Not at all until you're about to get lynched or during LyLo. Then reveal the person who you most desire to receive your vote.[/quote="Twomz"]Should we just play this like normal mafia until someone starts getting a lot of votes?[/quote]Yes we should.

Is it better to spread out the votes over a large number of people rather than gather them all to a small number of people?

I would say spread them out to the general town reads during a period, be it none or everyone.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Vote: Kmd
Out of pure policy

What kind of policy vote is this? Given that this is probably your first game on Mafiascum, I'd like to know why this is a policy vote.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Diacria: Why are you guessing alts? How does that contribute to the discussion at hand?

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Unvote, Vote: Raider

You didn't even explain this vote at all.

FoS: Charlie

Oh schnap.

I think we're already out of RVS, so I'm going to take this as an OMGUS reply.

I'm starting to dislike Diacria. Will be willing to apply some pressure.

Unvote, Vote: Diacria

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

You don't get to dictate these things, you know.

unvote

Vote: SSBF

How am I dictacting the end of RVS? Notice the quote you post:

I

think

we're already out of RVS,

See the bolded. I basically said we're most likely out of RVS. I am by no way and shape attempting to end RVS. Don't twist my words.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Shattered, any chance you can answer my question about switching your vote in every post?

You don't get to dictate these things, you know.

unvote

Vote: Kmd4390

Way to completely avoid Kmd4390's question. No explanation for it whatsoever.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Page 4 is FAR to early for RVS to be over in a LARGE THEME GAME.

RVS is fun and all, but the most pro-town thing to do is to get out of it as soon as possible. So what if it's too early to be out of RVS? Town needs information and staying in RVS doesn't give us much information.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

SSBF, RVS isn't about fun, it's about gauging reactions out of people. Normal play can not start until this happens. Longer RVS = longer Day 1 = more chance of a scumslip.

Longer RVS can take away from the time that we have here. The longer the RVS is, the less time we have for actual discussions. We can find scum slips in actual discussion and scum hunting.

On top of that, consider the negative consequences of RVS. We run a higher risk of a RVS quick hammer, giving us almost no information going forth the next day.

Hey guys, I just thought of something...

Maybe Shattered Viewpoint has a post restriction?

I honestly doubt that Last Will Mafia had any sort of posting restriction (I could be wrong). Yes I read through the game. I'd also like for you to know that the chances of Shattered Viewpoint having a posting restriction is extremely low. Four of his posts didn't say "You don't get to dictate these things, you know.", followed by a vote and one of them doesn't include a vote. Your theory is faulty.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

He could still have a post restriction.

Reading through his last couple of posts, you should be smart enough to realize that he probably doesn't have a posting restriction.

An RVS quickhammer happens once in a blue moon.

The point is that they still do happen, so it's not impossible to rule a RVS hammer in games. Examples do happen.

We can't scumhunt without a decent RVS. For the record, 5 pages does not a decent RVS make. Especially in a LTG.

Like I said, long RVS are not necessary. What is your idea of a RVS? How long do you expect it to last?

We don't need a long RVS to actually scum hunt. It's best to get out of it as soon as possible. We get more information by leaving RVS as quickly as possible. Show me evidence that long RVS actually is more beneficialt to town then short RVS where we can actually scum hunt and in finished Large Theme Games as of this year (And I don't mean games that started this year, I mean every single game that finished at January 1, 2010 at earliest. Yes, I'm asking you to look at the archive forum.).

On top of that, there are other ways to start a game. One major example is RQS (Random Question Stage).

That's the thing, I don't know if SV is prone to do things like that. Has anyone here played with him before? If so, is it in his nature to troll in such a manner?

I've played a game with him in Mini 958. He played a lot better in that game then he currently does here.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Shattered Viewpoint: Thank you for basically confirming that you do not have a posting restriction. I don't understand why you keep deliberately dodging what Kmd4390 is asking you. I don't like it.

FoS: Shattered Viewpoint

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Sorry that I forgot about the game for a day, got kind of too focused on an ongoing game that just started yesterday in Smash World Forums. I'm back and ready to contribute.

I would be up for a policy lynch on millar13. I personally don't like his behavior and his rule-breaking and if he were to continue being disrespectful to the game and the mod doesn't replace him, the next best solution is to lynch him.

---

@Diacria: I notice two problems with your big twenty-three players list:
1. We've learned barely anything from the list. All you're saying is that "I like this person/I think this person is lurking.", which gave us almost no information.

2. Seems like you're lurker hunting and not really scum hunting. Not one person you've mentioned was declared scummy, but at worst, a lurker.

---

First Post.

VOTE: Millar13

For being The most scummy to read throughout this thread. Be back later with a better vote/reason

I really don't like this. You don't explain your suspicion on Millar13 at all. This gives us nothing to work on and I'm thinking you're bandwagoning.

I was going to role claim and aid the town, but i cba anymore.

What's preventing you from roleclaiming now? Sure it wouldn't be a good idea until Lylo/Mylo or when you're at L-1 and have to claim (With rare exceptions), but if you want to claim, feel free to.

Actually I'll figure that out later.
Vote: Amished

Any explanation for that vote on Amished? I have saw none so far.

viewtopic.php?p=2341785#p2341785
^^^
King of Eggs is town.

You are linking to the sign-up sheet of that game. Plus we have seen absolutely nothing out of him. How can you possibly make a conclusion that he is town?

Richard, who's scum?

Hypocrisy at it's finest. You have yet to explain your suspicions.

Did you pass third grade? Because it really doesn't look like it.

Wow, you are resorting to insulting people's intelligent level. That's pretty sad.

---

Conclusion: I like my vote on Diacria. He doesn't explain his suspicions or votes, frequently changes votes which gives me the feeling that he's bandwagoning, and is active lurking to death. Very few of his posts can even be considered acceptable. From this, I think he's a good Day 1 lynch and my vote will stay on him.

Other people I'm planning on looking more closely at are Shattered Viewpoint, RichardGHP, Reverse Simplicity, and millar13.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Reads = information. And speak for yourself.

But the thing is, you didn't explain your scum reads. Therefore, we've gotten almost nothing out of it.

Lurkerhunting is awesome. YOU don't think they're scum.

Hunting for lurkers are usually easy targets for scum. It requires minimal scum hunting in the game and are an easy way for scums to receive a town lynch. On top of that, active players can still be scummy, so lurkerhunting in the end, is not an efficent strategy to finding scums.

That post in the sign up thread is very clearly town.

How so? It's not even inside this game, therefore it is irrelavent.

I didn't ask for explanations from Richard.

But you did ask him a question. That means you're wanting RichardGHP to give him his scum reads AKA, explanations, no matter how minimal that may be.

Bandwagonning is good.

When you have a legitimate reason for joining a bandwagon, then it's not a problem. You gave no explanation of why you voted for your suspects. This is a bad example of joining a bandwagon.

Unvote, Vote Supersmash
Picking and choosing targets.

Wow, at long last, you finally give an explanation for voting someone and you basically OMGUS'd me.

It's not OMGUS to ask for a reason for a vote. Plus he didn't accuse the person of being scum. No FoS or vote.

I disagree. They are not limited to votes or FoS. They can also be related to filmsy attacks. I personally thought it was a filmsy attack on Amished, so I consider RichardGHP's quote to be OMGUS, although not purely.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

I believe someone in this thread asked about if someone played with Shattered Viewpoint and if so, if he played like this.

I played with Shattered Viewpoint in Mini 958: Another Mafia Problem. He played a lot better in that game then in this game IMO. Compare his ISO here to ISO in that game and you'll see why I dislike his play here compared to his Mini 958: Another Mini Problem.

@Diacria (June 30, 2010 at 6:27 PM CST): I explain below why I got on to Reverse Simplicity instead of Chronopie. Also, raider's posts hasn't really been serious. You on the other hand appeared pretty serious.

@Amished: For your answer, read the first quote and my response.

Why did you ignore the above? What difference does it have with Reverse's post.
Also, from your lack of comment on him, I'm assuming you find RAIDER's play acceptable compared to the other peoples listed. Funny as one of your reasons is active lurking

Both are similar, but what made Reverse Simplicity's scummier is that he promised contents in addition to his first post, but has yet to deliever. On top of that, now I consider Raider's play acceptable because I have yet to seen a scum tell from him, plus he's actually starting to contribute now.

Bandwagonning for the sake of bandwagonning isn't bad. It's not up to you to decide what's a legitimate reason or not.

By bandwaggoning for the sake of bandwaggoning, this is an excuse to give no or poor reasons to join a bandwagon. This is why it's usually frowned upon.

OMGUS isn't a scumtell and it's too damn overused. People don't get that OMGUS is "I'M VOTING FOR YOU FOR VOTING ME".

That's just the most well-known form. You can also do OMGUS by FoS's and poorly attacking other players.

Youre putting out all sorts of information about all sorts of people without saying much about any of it and seeing what sticks.

Just because I'm responding to something does not mean I have to put a paragraph-amount of words into my responses. I was simply trying to give you what I'm generally saying.

THEN you decide to tunnel Dia in your next obscene wall post which is all i seem to see from you

If you were talking about that last post, you should have noticed that I made a response to EGL at the end of that paragraph.

SSBF: Why did you ask millar to claim?

I did not ask millar to claim, I just said that he can claim if he wanted, just that I suggested he should wait until mylo/lylo or if he got put at L-1 and was asked to claim.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Sorry, my question should have been read as, why were you ok with allowing millar to claim?

I personally don't want people to claim before L-1/mass claims, but it's there choice and if they want to claim, they can. I wouldn't stop people from attempting to claim even if I wanted to. In rare exceptions, it's actually good, like with Town Miller's.

4 pages in you expect people to start scum hunting? With 4 pages and 23 people at best that is like 4 posts each. You expect people to scum hunt with 4 posts per person? As that was never the case there was most likely 5 or 6 people really post in the first 4 pages and half the players didnt post until after that. How do you expect to scum hunt with that little information? This is a LARGE theme game, do not rush things. I would expect us up to about page 25 before most players start ISOing people and finding information that really helps.

There is nothing preventing people from scum hunting at any time. If the want to do it at the very beginning of the game by bringing up a particular person's meta, they can do that. Beside, like I said before, it is best to end RVS as soon as possible as we get more information in the long run.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Mod: Are people with multiple votes are going to be able to vote different people (Like for example, if I had three vortes, I could vote for Player A, B, and C?). Or do you have to put it all in one person?

---

@Diacria: Apprently, Ellibereth is in the Diacria account. Is this a hydra? If so, who else is in the Diacria account?

---

I dislike ISO: 27 from raider8169. The second paragraph is basically WIFOM splattered all over the place. In the third paragraph, he continues to make a bad argument in terms of passing votes around.

I guess that is just something people will have different opinions on. Besides we have at least 2 people that have yet to post. If those slots are scum then we would be stupid to try and push for a real lynch this early. Granted I am but one vote right now but at any time someone is going to have 5-6 votes. There is no need to try and force the game to the next step.

The fact that two people did not post should not prevent anything, it's just that those two people aren't posting. They can be pressured to post and if they are scum, we should be able to catch it. If they don't post, they can always be replaced and we can judge the replacements instead. Also, if we can use multiple votes to vote different people, it would be an efficent town stragedy to put votes toward your five or six scummiest suspects. On top of that, a game can naturally translate to serious discussion in a matter of three, two, or even one page.

Losing certainty on Superscumbrothers. I lost your scummeta from that other forum, can you link me to it again?

Smash Bros. Mafia

I love how someone with 3 posts total come in and make stuff like this assuming it means anything. The best part is that they want to lynch a lurker when they are lurking.

You do realize that you're referring to Ellibereth, but that he's under the Diacria account? Also, Diacria has been one of the more active players in the game.

@Diacria: I'ma slap you upside your HEAD if you don't stop that. Makes it REALLY DIFFICULT to read the game, and your slot.

I'm going to be honest here. Your play here hasn't been that easy to read either. I'm not a fan of your play here, as that has been pointed out a few times. Your "You don't get to dictate things, you know." posts were completely unecessary, especially since we all know it isn't a posting restriction. I don't like your frequent vote changing style that went on until ISO: 22, as most of your votes appeared pointless. ISO: 17 sounds like appeal to emotion, which I also note.

---

I'm actually seeing a decent case on raider8169 being formed. A few posts from his hasn't been very good and Rhinox's case against raider8169 is nice as well. I like the bandwagon on both raider8169 and Shattered Viewpoint. I'm still suspicious of Diacria, but his play is improving.

Unvote

Shattered Viewpoint and raider8169 are scummy, but raider8169 is scummier.

Vote: raider8169

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Rhinox: Your last post sounds good, except with one glaring flaw: millar13 is only given a funeral if lynched, not Night Killed (At least according to what he said). Would you mind restating it, only that it involves millar13's funeral during the Day and not during the Night? However...

Rhinox it says that i only get a funeral if killed in the day....

so if i get NK i get no funeral.....

so your logic, is scummy because you have said the opposite of me.

Rhinox made a simple mistake that can be forgiven, it is most definently not scummy by any means.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

I don't like this, If you're going to vote someone, vote them You shouldn't want to split votes. What the hell would that do?

I honestly have no idea how that quote was scummy in any shape or form. It was a simple question to the mod and I already gotten an answer (Which is "no"). Had we've been able to spread our votes around, I personally think that it would help be efficent in scum hunting.

Let's say you have three votes. You are able to spread one vote to one person. You are also able to put forth three votes toward one person and able to put two vote on one person and one vote on a person. You can vote up to three people at a time.

Now how would putting your three votes on three people be more beneficial then three votes on one person? One, it would reduce the chance of a scum quicklynch/town accidental hammer. Two, it would help put pressure on as many people as possible. Three votes on one person will only put more pressure toward one person. Three votes on three seperate people would put more pressure toward three seperate people. Sure it would be less pressure toward individual people, but by placing votes toward three seperate people, it is more likely that you're voting for a scum.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@raider8169: It should be obvious that VI stands for Village Idiot. Not that it's scummy or anything.

---

Well, now the scum won't kill you.

Also, nice sarcasm!

I believe that millar13 was being pretty serious about his claim. Why do you think he's being sarcastic about the claim?

It doesnt prevent anything but limits our ability to judge everyone equally. The point being why rush it? Lets give those slots a chance to post before judging people. Votes on slots that are not posting does nothing but put the replacement in a crappy position and who would want to replace into that?

Passive lurkers should be either A): left alone and recieve a replacement or B): be pressured to reduce contents. People with no posts cannot receive analysis based on there gameplay, so it makes sense to put them at a null read until contents from the slot is produced. I am not by any means supporting a lynch on lurkers who don't post, that's voting someone based off a null tell, but that does not mean we should not look for scummy people just because two people haven't posted.

Scummiest suspects shouldnt happen until late day one or better yet mid day two. That is my opinion and I think its better then tunneling in on someone day one for their opinions just because what you think is different from me. Those are not reasons to lynch someone and so far that is the case on me. Chalk it up to me voting a bunch of other people during RVS or whatever to make yourself feel better but at least take some effort in trying to kill me and come up with a real case.

Actually, it is best to find a scummiest suspect as soon as possible. You are able to push them further, make a better case on them, and not only that, we gain more information out of scum hunting as soon as possible. Plus if the person flips scum, you are able to look for connections between that person and the scumbag.

Hell yeah I love being lynched day one with no real reason!

I already pointed out that I found your ISO: 27 scummy due to the second paragraph basically being WIFOM. Is that not a reason to lynch someone? I also agree to the general case on you.

I'm just saying that if you're voting for someone, even if it's just to put pressure on them, you need to be sure it's the right choice.

I can be absolutely certain that one person is scum beyond all doubts and have multiple votes. I can still choose to only put forth one vote, because I know there are other scums out there, and I can put them on my other top lynch candidates.

And yeah, it's a great idea to get a fuster cluck of oh mah god dont killz me plox from like 434315 people at once.

If someone were to intentionally kill a person, we were able to spread our votes around to different people, and if we had plenty of time left, this increases the chance of the person being scum. Scums would have to blend in with other people more, putting multiple votes on a person would help make the scums stand out.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

CSL is making absolutely no sense with his recent posting. These are worthy of facepalms as they do not contribute to the game in any shape or form. A highlight of his recent scumminess is his major inconsistency today. Will look more closely at CSL later on.

As far as I know, raider has not scumhunted. I know I haven't, but at least I'm trying.

Any logic to this? You say that raider isn't scum hunting, then say that you haven't, but trying. Since you admit to not scum hunting, that means you need to get off your butt and do something.

UNVOTE; VOTE: Raider as per what Charlie said.

Are you seriously sheeping off a person who barely pushed a wagon at all? At best, this exhibits a lazy town, at worst, it's very scummy sheeping.

You know what, go ahead. There's nothing I can do now.

Just want to point out that I hate this AtE mentality you're exhbiting here. If you're not willing to fight against your lynch and help the town (If you're one), then you need to die.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

With deadline looming (July 14th, 2010), I think it's time to find some solid conclusions now. For example, who are your top three suspects?

I want to lynch either Shattered Viewpoint, CSL, or RichardGHP. I'm still slightly suspicious of raider8169 due to his earlier play, but his recent play has been pro-town, so

unvote

.

Basically, I agree with the cases from my top three suspects, but I think Shattered Viewpoint is the best choice for a lynch.

Vote: Shattered Viewpoint

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Everyone, switch your vote to Shattered Viewpoint if you truly think he won't benefit the game. At least raider8169 is doing something. Shattered Viewpoint simply isn't going to contribute to the game. Therefore, I suggest lynching him ToDay and go from there.

@Chronopie: Why don't you take a stance and do something in this game? You have contributed next to zero into this game, as said by Rhinox's analysis. You have also yet to answer who are your suspects and why.

@CSL: Why not ask LlamaFluff to replace millar13 out? I symphatize with you, I was in a game with him where he behaved the same as in your game.

@Shattered Viewpoint: Making a decent case on you will be easy. Watch as one comes up before deadline.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Case against Shattered Viewpoint

The first thing that really bugs me is that early in the day, he would frequently change his vote. No explanation behind it and dodged Kmd4390's question on him on numerous occasions. To this date, I doubt he answered Kmd4390's question on him. Also on his votes, he would give next to no information

ISO: 38: He basically ignores the case that Magua made back in Magua'a ISO: 0. When Magua asked if Shattered Viewpoint had anything to defend against his case, he basically said "Oh, there's no case for me to defend against.". Which quite frankly, is a pile of crap.

He has stayed in RVS throughout the majority of the game. No attempt to scum hunt, no attempt to get serious, and neglects other things that makes a good townie.

His current vote on me gives no explanation on why I was scummy. He has put absolutely no effort toward trying to get my lynched, which makes it more obvious that he is not caring about the game.

Also look at Magua's ISO 0, who makes a good case against him. Let me say this. This post is meant to get his butt lynched.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Can we lynch her anyway?

Do you seriously think we'll be able to switch the bandwagon to her in under twelve hours? She's not even a prime lynch candidate for most people.

You said you would defend yourself if there was a case on you. I did it late yesterday (In real times) and Magua did one even earlier. Prove to us that you are not scum. You have less then twelve hours, so get going. As far as I'm concerned, you are scum.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

I'm going to say that there are scums on the Shattered Viewpoint bandwagon. My suggestion is that we look at the last five people on his bandwagon. People should note that on the last day of Day 1, the bandwagon shifted furiously to him, eventually getting him lynched without giving Shattered Viewpoint the oppertunity to claim.

As for my scum reads, they are the following:
chronopie
CSL
RichardGHP
millar13

One of these four should be lynched ToDay. I'll also look very closely at raider8169 to see if he's another worthy lynch candidate, although he has been improving.

I'll look at my four suspect's ISO to see where my vote will go ToDay.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Warning: This will be a long post.

@kmd4390: You claim to use your kill on Shattered Viewpoint early in Day 1. Reading through your ISO, you seem pretty serious about it. Unless I am completely mistaking you, was the kill serious?

You're also curious as to why I suggested this at the time when only one out of my four suspects were on the Shattered Viewpoint bandwagon. It's because looking at bandwagons of lynched townies/scums are a great way to find scums, as scums tend to bus people and scums like to cause townie mislynches. As of now, two out of my five suspects were on the Shattered Viewpoint mislynch (Just got a new one from analysing it, check it out below).

---

I nagree partially, but it is always better to have a lynch, information wise. When I noticed CSL lynch was going nowhere, I deicded to get the lynch going.

We had at least three more days left to decide on a lynch, so there was time for you to help town convince that CSL should be lynched Yesterday. Also, did you suspect Shattered Viewpoint at all. If so, why didn't you explain why you thought he was a good alternate lynch to CSL?

Also, I'd suggest removing Millar from your list for now, SSBF.

I disagree. Just because millar13 has a beloved princess claim doesn't mean he is excused from his scummy actions. I personally think he'll make a good policy lynch, even with the risk of skipping a Day, unless he shapes up.

---

Shattered Viewpoint's Bandwagon Analysis

Shattered Viewpoint

(12) - Ythan, EGL,

Magua

,

Super Smash Bros. Fan

,

Amished

, Charlie,

kmd4390

, holycon,

Twomz

,

animorpherv1

, pittbunny,

millar13

Me

Town

More likely then not Townies

Neutral

Possible Scums

Probable Scums

We already know that Shattered Viewpoint is town. Moving on...

I believe that out of everyone in the bandwagon, I think Amished, Magua, and kmd4390 are the most likely townies, due to the amount of contributations they've made and how they helped find scums.

Althought these people weren't part of the last five people on the bandwagon, I have a neutral read on Ythan, EGL, and Charlie. I haven't been able to make up my mind if what they're doing is scum or town-intended. These people I will need to further analyzing.

The last five people on the bandwagon are holycon, Twomz, animorpherv1, pittbunny, and millar13. Let's see what I think of them:

holycon:

She tends to respond to things more emotionally then other people here and even response to insults. Examples are ISO: 4 and ISO: 9. Her case on RichardGHP is genuine, but not really that well-developed from my perspective. As for the vote, to be honest, I can't really see a pro-town reason for her to suddenly change from RichardGHP to Shattered Viewpoint, especially since she gave no explanation for suspicion on him. So far, my read on her is null, but it is starting to tip to scum.

Twomz:

Despite being a late wagoner, he has a solid chance of being town. He has contributed more then most other people in this game in helping the town. I like how he gave legitimate reasons for voting Shattered Viewpoint, which gives us something to work on. Diacria giving Twomz a second vote only solidfy my town read on him.

animorpherv1:

I'm getting a very bad vibe from animorpherv1. He didn't really do much Day 1 that helped the town. His vote for CSL at ISO: 7 lacked original thoughts, basically saying he agreed with other people. Now look closer at ISO: 10. He deliberately stated that he would vote raider8169 if the bandwagon got enough votes. He was basically saying "I'll bandwagon raider8169 without good reasons if it gets enough vote! ISO: 11 is unexplained bandwagoning on Shattered Viewpoint. He never put any previous explanation on why Shattered Viewpoint could be scum, instead, went with the "His lynch is better then a no lynch!" excuse, which is crap.

Pittbunny:

ISO: 5 sticks out like a sore thumb to me in a way. I find it odd that he would say that he didn't produce enough contents to be town, but why would you say that if you're a townie? ISO: 50 and ISO: 51 sounds like major contradictions. ISO: 50, he said he passed on supporting the Shattered Viewpoint bandwagon. Yet in ISO: 51, less then twenty four hours from ISO: 50, he goes to vote Shattered Viewpoint, putting him at L-1. Not only that, I haven't really seen a solid explanation for why he voted Shattered Viewpoint. He didn't really express any suspicion on him. But to be fair, he has produced some form of good contents in the game and is at least trying to help town. I'm putting him at a neutral read, but will be keeping an eye out for him.

millar13

: The perfect policy lynch. It's best to do it now so we don't have to worry about him in the future. Plus due to his rude behavior in recent games (Like the recently-finished Mini 988: Small Town Mafia and to an extend, this game), we don't have to worry about him disrespecting players anymore. I absolutely hated his hammer vote on Shattered Viewpoint. He gave us absolutely no warning that he was going to hammer him, but did it anyway. No explanation on why he thought Shattered Viewpoint was a good lynch at all. He has also given us very little good contents to analysis. I also dislike his numerous vote switiching at times and his hypocritical statement that he hated RVS, yet he's made RVS comments as well. If we're going to lynch him, we might as well do it ToDay. Plus I think he's scummy. Only reasons why I'm not voting him yet is because lynching him loses a day for the town and that their are scummier people then him.

---

Other thoughts about the game.

Scum reads that didn't join the bandwagons are CSL, Chronopie, and RichardGHP and quality cases have been formed on all three of these people. It seems like CSL isn't even going to try in this game. If he doesn't, then he deserves to die. He has done almost nothing for the town that benefits them and fails to provide a decent defense. Because of this, CSL is my top suspect.

My other town reads that weren't on the bandwagon were Xite91 and rhinox. I like how they form original cases against other people and pushes them very well. Check Xite91's push for a RichardGHP's lynch and Rhinox's push for a Chronopie's lynch.

---

Conclusion/Summerization/Misc.

One of {animorpherv1, CSL, Chornopie, RichardGHP, and millar13} should be lynched ToDay.
My top suspect is CSL with a close second being animorpherv1. choronpie is in 3rd with RichardGHP in 4th. At 5th lays millar13.
millar13 is a good policy lynch, although we do lose a Day if his claim turns out to be correct.
I will be keeping a close eye out for holycon and Pittbunny.
My town reads are Amished, kmd4390, Twomz, Magua, Xite91, and rhinox.
Everyone else is null.
Glad people are actually taking a look at the Shattered Viewpoint's lynch bandwagon. We can gain a lot of informations out of it.
Glad to see you back in the game Xite91.

Vote: CSL

HoS: animorpherv1

FoS: chornopie, RichardGHP, and millar13

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

2) So, you'll risk town's biggest asset for a policy lynch?

I'm not really sure why you think millar13 is a big asset to town, especially since he's pratically useless and you consider him scummy. But my answer would be yes, although it isn't completely a policy lynch reason, but the spirit is still there.

3) To help find what scum? As far as I recall, we've been through one day and lynched town yesterday...

That doesn't mean they can't find scums in the future. They can help town find scums, that's why I consider them more towny then others (I'm including you and Rhinox as well, thought).

4) Bolded. Dia was probably like me and hadn't changed her list since she sent it to him (Still deciding who I want to get my vote) Even if she meant to give him them, that should not confirm anything for you unless they were masons that were confirmed to each other.

You are probably in the minority there. Diacria had a town read on Twomz if I remember correctly. Plus we should have come to some conclusions about who is scum by the end of the day, so I would not be surprised if Diacria actually made a serious Will putting Twomz on top of his list. And I never said it confirmed him, just said it further solidfied my read on Twomz. That doesn't mean Twomz can't be scummy.

6) Yes he's scummy, but that's how I've come to know millar, he plays VI and he plays it well. Also, again, a vig kill would be much better on him anyway if his claim was real, again we'll have to wait and see a bit more before I decide to take a stab at him

This is actually a good idea. His claim is a major reason why I refrain from voting him. If his claim is true, vigging him will prevent a Day from being skipped given that his claim is true and if he's lying, well, we killed a scumbag.

8) Uhm, I need to reread rhinox's case but I know this is one of the worst plays I've done tbh. That being said, I pushed my case very poorly, I'd like to know where you see otherwise.

1. You are aggressive with pushing RichardGHP's case. It is good to be aggressive as town.
2. You called RichardGHP out for scummy bandwagoning on Raider8169 on ISO: 19. On the same post, you voted for him.
3. You make very good points against RichardGHP that convinced me to give him a second look.
4. It's nice to see you actually forming an original case instead of just following the crowd.

11) Why?

The six people I've mentioned have produced a lot of contents that helped town. They make good cases against there suspects and pushed them very well. The majority of there actions have been towny.

Anyone notice SSBF didn't bother putting himself as town in this?

I'd like to see how that's a problem. For me, I consider it a null tell, as both town and scums do this, so it's not indicative of alignments. Overswarm did this Day 4 in the recently-finished Code Geass Mafia over at Smash World Forums. He was town.

Vote: Xite

Oh My God, You Suck.

Unbelieveable. You deliberately spelt out a scum tell right in our face. You refused to give any other explanation for your suspicion on Xite91. I also would like to see other reasons why you think Xite91 is the play for ToDay.

What scummy actions of millar's are you refering to here? If its scummy actions that warrant his lynch, why is it a policy lynch? (unless the "policy" is "lynching scum", but then its kind of redundant...)

His behavior in Mini 988: Small Town Mafia and in CSL's ongoing Newbie game, millar13 went in an emotinal tantrum. He put no effort into playing the game at all and was very disrespectful. This caused him to loss in Mini 988: Small Town Mafia. Just look at his Day 3 gameplay and you'll see why I'm supporting a policy lynch on him.

Also, you can policy lynch scummy people. Like for example, Lynch All Liars when people lie about there role and that person is scummy, wouldn't you want to policy lynch him?

He's put little effort into scum hunting in this game as well and has been disrespectful at times.

Re: the bolded: Odd way to put that sentence in. Why do you think he's scummy, if not for the rest of the reasons you stated in the entire quoted paragraph?

ISO: 15, he gives us a very poor reason to vote Diacria on which I consider a null tell.

Out of nowhere in ISO: 46, he votes CSL, saying we should form a bandwagon. But he did not give previous reasons why he found it scummy, so I feel this is oppertunistic.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Good call Ythan. Why Xite91 would call one of the most worthless player in this game IMO a town asset despite having a Beloved Princess role boggles me now that is brought up. Which leads me to a major contradiction that I just spotted on her. Watch:

2) So, you'll risk town's biggest asset for a policy lynch?

She basically said that millar13 was one of the most valueable player in this game, even thought everyone else would think millar13 is pratically useless and rude at times. Then there's this:

6)

Yes he's scummy

, but that's how I've come to know millar, he plays VI and he plays it well.

On the same post, she backpeddles her opinion on millar13 by saying in the bolded that he was scummy. Don't like this at all.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Why are there so many town lists going around, anyways? People, stop it.

Right now, I can only recall me and Magua making town lists. That's just two out of twenty-one people, it shouldn't really hurt town that much. Also, saying who you think are townies is a good form of PoE as it helps narrow down so we more likely achieve a scum lynch.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

1) Do you want a case on everyone I can make a case on?

Focus on people who you think are the scums and can make a decent case on.

2) What kind of case would you prefer? Point-by point, basic post by post or just a summarization?

Do a point-by-point analysis of things you consider scummy. Quotes and links are highly recommended.

3) Would you like it to be all one mass post, or a single post per player?

One mass post. It might be ultra-large, but you'll be less likely to forget cases on all of your suspects this way and we get more information overall.

Looking forward to your big post.

---

I could vote for either at this time but if Charlie and/or Chronopie are around to talk then I'll just hold off and try and get a better understanding of their suspicions.

We have plenty of time to push their lynches ToDay, so there is no need to refrain from voting if you think they're scums.

Oh, I disagree with Rhinox.

I'd prefer more policy lynches.

VOTE: millar13

This

VOTE: millar13

I don't like millar13's play either, but now is not the time for policy lynching people. We have bigger fishes to fry now and we need to be focused on them ToDay instead of focusing to get rid of an anti-townie.

---

Magua's and Jahudo's case on Charlie are pretty good, enough for me to look Charlie over. ISOing Charlie, he is the best choice for the lynch ToDay. Too Long, Didn't Read Version is at the bottom of this case.

ISO Charlie from this game me and Charlie were in. If you read it, you'll notice that he was far more pro-town in that game and contributed a lot more to the game. He also took stances and tried to look for suspects. Most importantly, he was town.

Now let's take a look at Charlie's ISO in this game. Uh oh, he just did a 180 on his play style. Compared to the game I linked to, he puts a lot less effort into playing the game. Instead of helping the town, he make numerous RVS-like posts during the stages when we are suppose to actively finding scums. This is enough to put him on my scum list. But wait, there's more! Let's look at his ISO for his other scum tells:

I acknowledge the happenings in this thread, and feel that I have nothing to respond to at the moment. Carry on, good people!

Hate this post. Since he acknowledge the thread, you'd think he would give us something good to work on. But no, he goes on to say that he has nothing to add. Then why say anything if you have nothing to have? Is he admitting to active lurking? If you aren't willing to particapate in this game, replace out. Don't expect people to do your work for you.

ISO: 27 is also very scummy. First off, this is definitive hypocrisy where he calls out millar13 for not doing anything, yet despite accumlating a relatively large amount of posts, he has done little to move forward the game, let alone help town. Secondly, he wanted more votes on raider8169. Yet he had put forth little effort toward trying to get raider8169 lynched.

holycon, by any chance are you familiar with someone who goes by the name of razorback, here in MS?

What is the purpose of this post? razorback's meta is considerably different from everyone else except millar13, so I can't see decent compairison happening outside of that one exception, and even then, he was responding directly to holycon, not millar13. Why he asked this, I'd like to know.

No, seriously, you're scummier than Richard. He made a few boo-boos, but I'll pass that up D1.

At long last, he is actually serious about his suspicion, which is good. But he doesn't explain why he suspected raider8169 either, which is bad. Unfortunently, he goes stright back to lynching people because they were anti-townie, not scummy here:

SV! Well, that would be policy lynching. Sound good to me!

UNVOTE: raider8169
VOTE: Shattered Viewpoint

Instead of actually giving reasons why he thought Shattered Viewpoint was scummy or at least kept his vote on raider8169, he said he's voting Shattered Viewpoint as a policy lynch. Yes, voted Shattered Viewpoint based off anti-townie reasons, not

scummy

reasons. This is very scummy.

ISO: 39 was pretty horrible as well. I dislike that he bandwagoned CSL for absolutely no reason. He expressed no previous suspicion on CSL either. By then, Jahudo's case on Charlie was formed, but he puts no effort into defending himself. Litterally none.

Too Long, Didn't Read Versions:
- Charlie is horribly scummy.
- I agree with Magua's and Jahudo's case on him.
- Last Will Mafia II's play conflicts with his town meta in Newbie Mafia 934.
- Without any doubt he active lurks in this game.
- Shows lack of willingness to participate in the game.
- Guilty of hypocrisy.
- Asks useless questions.
- Doesn't explain suspicion.
- Vote on Shattered Viewpoint was a policy lynch vote, not a vote because he thought he was scum.
- Lacks explanation for his bandwagoning on CSL.
- Doesn't defend himself when points are brought up against him.

Remember when I said there were scums on Shattered Viewpoints bandwagon? He's the most likely.

Unvote, Vote: Charlie

HoS: CSL

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

An interesting case on me there, SSBF. After reading it, I become more convinced that I'm town.

If you truly are town, then please stop make egregious comments like that. Attack cases, refute points, find scums, do something for the town.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Don't bother to meta. I'm doing it (mostly) different. I believe a minimalistic approach in a large theme game can be useful, coupled with playing by gut.

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind different play styles. Everyone is different from a person in play style and it's nice to change things up a bit. I also don't mind a minimalistic approach, as being succint is pro-town. However, that's not the point I'm making. The town not attacking you for changing play styles or minimalistic play, the town is attacking you because your behavior has been very scummy and people that are voting you are still willing to lynch you.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

animorpherv1's lack of participation in this thread yesterday and today (In real times) is bothering me. If it was just simple lurking, I would only desire if he posted more. But I don't think it's just plain lurking.

If you've been checking out other ongoing Large Theme games, you'll realize that animorpherv1 has been posting in two Large Theme games today, but completely ignoring this game. I already gave animorpherv1 some attention and you should know that I highly suspect him. Xite91 also agrees, so animorpherv1 has a bit of pressure on him, even without votes.

July 18, 2010, he made a short burst of posts between his back-to-back with Ythan at the beginning of Day 2. Yet yesterday, he's only made one post, which contained a relatively lackluster vote on RichardGHP. He completely neglected to acknowledge the suspicion around him or my case on him.

This is giving me the feeling that animorpherv1 is attempting to steer negative attention away from him, but not in a positive way. Rather then actually put forth effort at scum hunting or at least put up a defense of some sort, I'm getting the feeling he's trying to lurk his way out of negative attention. This is not a pro-town move and if it's active lurking, it is scummy.

And it's not like we've gotten nothing else to work on either. Ever since animorpherv1's last post in here, we've managed to get over fifty new posts and it contains a lot of contents. There is definently something to work on from these posts, so contributing should not be that hard to do.

If he keeps playing scummy, make sure to lay down a ton of pressure on him and if he continues to act scummy, we should lynch him eventually.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@SSBF:

I didn't call you out on anything because I don't consider not posting enough to warrant someone as anti-town.

Not posting frequently does not mean the person is anti-town or scummy as long those posts have good contents in them that helps the town. But here's the problem. You have been not been very productive in the game AKA active lurking and you've commited enough scum tells that makes you one of my major lynch candidates for ToDay.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Why do you keep capitalizing the T and D in today?

By ToDay, I am refering to Days in Mafia. I don't want people to get confused between today in real times and ToDay in Mafia times, that's why I do it.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Ythan, take a look:

Idiots. Don't worry about millar today okay? Someone else.

You want us to not be concerned about millar13 for ToDay. But this post directly conflicts with this:

Could you just stop posting until someone vigs you thanks.

You want millar13 to stop posting until he got vigged. That is showing a concern about him posting.

I know you don't like millar13's play and I don't either, but I wanted to point out the contradiction.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Twomz: That would require me to "work". Aw, do I really have to?

@Xite91: That would require me to "work". Aw, do I really have to, mom?

*facepalm*

I do not see a good excuse for this. Explaining your reads, clarifying things that people are confused about, and defending yourself should not be a difficult thing to do.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

So, lynch me if you want. If you decide to, ani, SSBF and millar are scum (kill them please !!)...

Unvote

The first sentence sounds like AtE to me. Also, you've put very little effort into trying to prove that I am scum. So I want your own evidence suggesting that I'm scum.

I also dislike how you unvoted, despite mentioning three lynch candidates (Me, animorpherv1, and millar13). If you think we're scum, why not vote for one of us?

TBH, I keep forgetting about this game. Nothing particularly interesting going on here.

You had nothing to add in the game? Between this post and the post before it, that's about 165 posts right there. That is a lot to analyze. How can you say there has been nothing "particularly interesting" going on when IMO, that's a lot to work off?

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

I also dislike how you unvoted, despite mentioning three lynch candidates (Me, animorpherv1, and millar13). If you think we're scum, why not vote for one of us?

Just saw that you voted Chronopie. My bad.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Charlie (#892): Your vote on raider8169 contains absolutely no explanation. He asked you a simple question and then you vote him for it. That's kind of sad.

I'm sorry I havent been to active let me re read everything for day 2 and i will hopefully have a post for you tomarrow

I will hold you up to that. Since Tommorow = Today, I'd like a decent post coming out of you today and no less.

In summary, I can only make a town list. I cannot make a mafia list. Thus that will be all.

I'd be much more comfortable if you actually gave us a mafia list as opposed to a town list. Now granted, I don't have a problem with town lists, but I highly prefer to see mafia lists instead, as mafia lists (With explanation) make your suspects known to us.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

I have not observed this in practice but I would think that having a record of town suspects would achieve the same results as having a record of scum suspects from a player. It forces consistency and minimizes allowable opportunism.

How so? Making Town Lists, while not bad IMO, is more risky then making scum lists. By doing Town Lists, you are putting a person at a higher risk of being NK'd. And consider this, what if scum made your town list?

I personally think that if you can't make a scum list, you shouldn't be concerned who the townies are.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

CSL needs to get his *** back in here. He is already due for a prod, so there is no explanation for hsi disapperance. Plus he's been posting in other games here, so my ISO: 32 where I talk about how animorpherv1's disapperance is potentially scummy

@Mod: I believe it's been over seventy-two hours since CSL has posted. Please prod him.

@CSL: Just because you don't want to talk to millar13 at all doesn't excuse you from ignoring the game and not contributing. If you return, I want you to answer this question:

Who are your other suspects for ToDay and why?

@holycon: You seemed to push RichardGHP's lynch relatively hard back in Day 1, yet neglected to mention him in your first content-filled post of ToDay. What is your opinion on him?

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Mod: Replace me please.

Otherwise the integrity of this game and myself are about to become compromised. One more smug comment out of Xite or Ythan would do it, I think. I don't want to be in a game where people think like that.

Okay, wow, this

is

scummy. You basically rage-quit because Xite91 and Ythan were pressuring you in some way or form. They haven't broken any rules in this game yet, so there's really no excuse for you to replace out. At least Xite91 and CSL had legitimate reasons for asking to replace out (Even thought both stayed in the game). You on the other hand don't. If not for the fact that CSL and Charlie are so scummy, I would switch my vote now.

By the way, don't even bother posting anything along the lines of:

"Oh dis guys scum bcuz he quit cuz he got voted for!!1!1!!"

We have every right to complain about ****** reasons for a person to replace out like yours. And we have legit reasons for doing so.

---

What's preventing you from roleclaiming now? Sure it wouldn't be a good idea until Lylo/Mylo or when you're at L-1 and have to claim (With rare exceptions), but if you want to claim, feel free to.

Rolefishing at its finest.

Please explain why this is rolefishing. I never asked millar13 to claim at all, I just said that he could claim if he wanted to, just that I'd recommend doing it at L-1/massclaim at Mylo/Lylo. There was no scummy agenda for that quote.

I'm actually seeing a decent case on raider8169 being formed. A few posts from his hasn't been very good and Rhinox's case against raider8169 is nice as well. I like the bandwagon on both raider8169 and Shattered Viewpoint. I'm still suspicious of Diacria, but his play is improving. Unvote

Shattered Viewpoint and raider8169 are scummy, but raider8169 is scummier. Vote: raider8169

Whaaaaa?

Back in Day 1, I really didn't have much of solid reads, aside from my scum read on Diacria. When Diacria started to become more pro-town, I unvoted because I see no purpose of voting someone that is not your top suspect and I thought there were better suspects them him. That's when my read started to solidfy, as I did eventually vote Shattered Viewpoint, who was one of my first solid scum read.

Post #20 don’t like the way you jumped on this wagon. At all.

I had a stronger read on Shattered Viewpoint then CSL at the time. I didn't have much to base off of CSL but I felt there was a lot more meat to the Shattered Viewpoint's bandwagon.

Then next post you make a poor case on him and ride off of another one. Another don’t like.

Excuse me? ISO: 21 was not my case on Shattered Viewpoint. Heck, I even said that I could form a decent case against him and looking at my next post, I believe I did.

Post #23 wait, wasn’t there still like 4 days till deadline when you made this post? Also, I’ve seen a bandwagon change that quick. But do you support lynching me, or was this just something you wanted to sit on the fence about?

Obviously, I do not support your lynch, as I do have a town read on you. Also, me confusing twelve hours and four days for deadlines was an error in my part.

Post #24 seriously easy way out with that list.

This is coming from someone that suspect CSL, RichardGHP, and millar13. Out of the four suspects I've mentioned in ISO: 24, only millar13 is really an easy target, which is why I dropped the case on him. The other three have quality cases put against them that makes them worthy of being lynched. I haven't simply sheeped off other people's case either. I have made my own effort toward trying to get my top five suspects {Charlie, CSL, RichardGHP, animorpherv1, and Chronopie in order from most suspected to least suspected} lynched.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Welcome back CSL. Unfortunently, your return was very lacking. Your most recent post was basically making a contentless vote on RichardGHP. No attempt to defend yourself, no attempt to comment on other things, not to mention your vote on RichardGHP was basically bandwagoning.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@millar13: Why did you feel that it was necessary to unvote? You've never put a vote on anyone ToDay. Furthermore, who do you suspect and why?

---

placeholder... placeholder

Rage quits are scummy, I will admit that. However, that doesn't always mean I'm going to switch my vote in that instance. I will need to see if RichardGHP comes back and becomes even scummier/successor is scummier before throwing down a vote.

You ask him why he didn't, then go, oh but you shouldn't, but really you can. You cover all your bases. And you still ask him to claim.

I didn't say he shouldn't role claim, just said it wasn't a good idea. I also did not ask him to claim at all, I just said if he wanted to claim, he could. I would never ask a person to claim where he was at.

So do you follow the crowd all the time or just in mafia?

I do not just follow the crowd in Mafia. For example, I put forth a solid case against animorpherv1 and was the first person to bring his scumminess to attention. I am not a sheep.

then why didn't you correct it? You saying that caused a lot of people to rush unnecessarily and lost town information IMHO

This is because Shattered Viewpoint already did that for me near the end of Day 1 before he got lynched.

Yeah, but it seems to me like you don't suspect someone until there's already a decent amount of suspicion on them.

As said above, I do not always follow the crowd. My case on animorpherv1 is an example. I was the very first person to suspect him and now he is starting to get the attention he deserves.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Since when is ragequitting scummy?

Occasionally, scums will resort to rage quitting the because they are under tons of pressure. Townies have no reasons to do this, but scums do because one of their main goals is to avoid suspicion.

Look at Mini 958: Another Mafia Problem, my third game on the site as a great example. MafiaSSK raged quit while under pressure. He was scum.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

The sort of player who will quit under pressure has just as much reason to do so as town.

How so? Town's goal is to elminate scums, so they should not be afraid of being pressured. It would be absolutely illogical for a townie to quit because they're under high pressure. Provide me an example that doesn't have to do with real life issue, flaking out, or joining too many games at one time.

And you just provided a COMPLETELY irrelevant example of another player who is not even in this game doing it. You really reached to support this didn't you?

Both players are semi-infamous for there less then adequate play style. Both players quit under pressure from the town. MafiaSSK from Mini 958 was scum, so this should support evidence that RichardGHP is more likely then not scum. What I just did was use meta from past games to support my argument here.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Point one, townies do this plenty often. You should spend some time in the newbie queue. And, I know you're new to the site, but it's quite unbelievable that you're attempting to make this distinction.

What does that say for RichardGHP? He's been on the site for around seven months, that does not indicate anything for him.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Anyone have any reason to doubt the claim or wants to continue with the Richard lynch? Or can we move on down the line?

Given that I agree that RichardGHP's claim is like a Vigilante role, I say we should give his role one chance to prove himself on his top suspect. If he doesn't end up killing one of his suspects/the death total remains at one and at a pro-town townie, we'll assume he's a lying scum. However, despite expressing suspicion on RichardGHP numerous times, we should proceed with a Charlie's lynch, who has been scummier then anyone in here, even RichardGHP himself.

Smash bras, how does ragequitting avoid suspicion? Being replaced makes it impossible to win regardless of alignment. You say it is illogical for town to ragequit. The same can be said for scum.

Good question there. I don't remember saying that rage quitting could be used to avoid suspicion, but I'll go ahead and answer it.

The reason why I think rage quitting can be used for avoiding suspicion on the slot is because scums can use this tactic to absolve responsibility for their slot and expect the new player to pick up the slack for them. Even thought the player won't win, the slot still has a chance of winning.

Ooh, sharp point. I'll never think the same again.

I can't believe that you weren't even bothered to defend yourself. That sharp point was directed at you and your refusal to defend yourself nails another hole in your coffin.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

To everyone saying we should give Richard the opportunity: are you definitely going to simply lynch him if no kill appears from him tomorrow?

Considering that only one kill happened last Night and that I highly doubt it's a one scum-faction game, I'm going to assume that the second scum kill was blocked. So I'm assuming that the game would need a 3rd kill to easily prove RichardGHP's claim. That doesn't mean if there's only two kills, RichardGHP is without a doubt lying and must be lynched. If one of those deaths were on his suspects, that would be evidence that RichardGHP's claim could be true. However, if none of the Night Kills Night 2 sound like they came from a CPR Doctor, then RichardGHP is probably lying and should be lynched.

However, that doesn't mean that we should immediately lynch if it becomes apprent that RichardGHP is likely lying. We should use the time to find another scum so we can catch two scums in one Day, one (RichardGHP) to kill Day 3 and the other (Insert other likely scum here) to kill Day 4. This can be used for town to get ahead.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

And how exactly do you plan to prove any of that? Just wondering

Let's say that he attempts to attack his top suspect (In his case, Chronopie). If he successfully manage to kill his top suspicion, that will be evidence that RichardGHP might be speaking the truth, especially if said suspect flips scum. He will then have to explain to us why he killed his top suspect and do it decently. If all the kills doesn't look like it came from RichardGHP, then we will lynch him the very next Day, although we can use the oppertunity to find a second scum.

But if there's one way to truly prove if RichardGHP's claim is correct, it is if he said he successfully managed to protect a person from a kill. If that were to happen, not only would we have a confirmed townie, RichardGHP would likely be town as well. Of course if we kill him and he flips scum, we can assume that his so-called top suspicion is scum as well.

@SSBF: Have you only played one game with Charlie?

You are correct, just one game. He was town in that game as well and his play here definently doesn't resemble his play in that game.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Glad to see Charlie finally doing something here. I'm actually looking forward to seeing him contribute more to the game. Due to his terribly scummy behavior, thought, I will still keep my vote on him.

CSL, Chronopie, and animorpherv1 still haven't done any convincing to me that they are town. Both exhibits very scummy behavior and any of those four I would be willing to lynch ToDay if a Charlie's lynch doesn't get through or if Charlie becomes less scummier then them.

---

Getting to Amished's case against me:

First vote of the game: on Diacria while *stating* that it was for pressure. That eliminates all pressure given by voting; so he really just didn't want to get on a townies bad side. It's essentially a vote for Llama at that point for all the good it does. (ISO 4)

Unless you were meaning first serious vote, my first vote (Despite being RVS) was on millar 13. Also, by voting Diacria, I was applying pressure. Saying that voting a person for pressure doesn't really make that much sense to me.

Then freaks out and gets hyper-defensive over ending the RVS when questioned by Shattered. The tone of this post is so reactionary I'm surprised I didn't see it sooner (ISO 5)

I think you're blowing this out of proportion here. I tried to get my point across in a succint and clam matter. I don't need to make ten paragraphs over one quote.

Continues to say nothing about the game (other than RVS theory) for 5 posts; and then FoS's SV instead of voting after such a weak vote on Diacria. (ISO 10)

Things I did where you called my posts nothingness until my FoS on Shattered Viewpoint:

- Got on Shattered Viewpoint for not answering Kmd4390's question.
- Argued with RichardGHP about posting restrictions.
- Briefly talked about Shattered Viewpoint's meta.

That proves that I said more then RVS theory in those five posts. As a matter of fact, the only post that was entirely about RVS theory was in ISO: 7.

As for the FoS on Shattered Viewpoint, that was because I found Diacria scummier then Shatttered Viewpoint at the time, so I'm not going to switch my vote to a person just because I expressed suspicion on them.

One thing I just noticed: SSBF attacked Diacria for OMGUS in ISO 12-13; why didn't he do it to Richard lately with the "gambit"? (Hint, it's because they're both scum)

Technically, I already did comment on RichardGHP's gambit by outright stating that I disliked his obvious OMGUS vote on Xite91, which contained no real reasons for it.

Despite all of the attacking of Diacria; he hops on raider essentially because there's a bandwagon being formed on raider. (ISO 15) He never even questions Raider to actually determine his alignment. Even when voting for Raider; most of his attention is focused on other people. Attacking people while having your vote somewhere else makes your vote fade into the background and not a focus of the town; ample scum motivation for that.

My reasons for voting raider8169 was not purely for bandwagoning sake. I already expressed dissatification on raider8169 in a few thing on the same post I voted him. Most of my reasons for voting raider8169 was said by different people, but that doesn't mean I didn't attempt to justify my reason for voting him.

After the day starts; he's still pushing for a policy lynch on millar even though he's not said much about the claim or why (if millar is telling the truth) it's so bad to skip a day phase. (ISO 25)

I will admit to pushing a policy lynch on millar13 (That has changed since then, as I forgot that vigging him was an option, plus I admitted that it made little sense), but notice that I did not vote millar13 throughout the entire game. That is because I am more worried about ridding the town of the scums then I am worried about lynching an anti-town person that is more then likely to flip town.

(Also note the hypocrisy of calling out Diacria for her town list early on; yet providing one of his own and not attacking Magua for his town list either)

Regarding the hypocrisy accustion, I called Diacria out for his town list because he did not provide a scum list with it either. I have made this argument before, scum lists are more important then town lists.

Now why did I believe that my town list was justified? Because of two reasons:
1. My town reads were already solidfied by the beginning of Day 2. Everyone that I mentioned were town is still town in my opinion.

2. I gave a scum list along with it as well. I am not just town hunting here.

(ISO 29) He changes his stance on millar being a policy lynch after realizing that that was not going to take off. He also says that Charlie is the play for today; abandoning all of his own reads from earlier in the day. He also brings meta into it (*later*) by using a one-game, one-way meta (which proves absolutely nothing about Charlie's alignment)

No, I changed my stance on policy lynch on millar13 becuase it was obvious that I am not going to push for a policy lynch on millar13 when I have bigger suspects to deal with.

You saying that I abandoned all reads for Charlie is a misrep. I still think that CSL should be lynched, I still think that RichardGHP should be lynched if he can't provide evidence of his claim, I still think that animorpherv1 should be lynched, and I still think that Chronopie should be lynched as well. I have attacked them all at least once in the game.

Also, about the meta, it probably because I have no knowledge of Charlie's scum meta. Given that he does not provide his history of games on his Wiki Page, I do not want to waste my time search the forum for his scum meta (If he has any).

After posting a laundry list of things that aren't really scumtells on Charlie; he continues to take away from "his" case that he essentially hopped on Magua and Jahudo's reasoning against Charlie by putting more attention on animorph. Pushing for someone that you're not (and never have; I don't count HoS's as doing anything) voting for is incredibly scummy. (Also note that he doesn't push CSL whom he *did* vote for in the same post that he HoS'd Animorph).

So these aren't scum tells?
- Viewing the thread, but saying he has nothing to post.
- Asking a useless question about razorback to holycon and failing to explain why he asked the question.
- Fails to explain why he was suspicious of raider8169 and votes Shattered Viewpoint as a policy lynch.
- Bandwagons CSL without explanation.

Just because you're voting for a top suspect doesn't mean you can't push for the lynch of your other suspects as well. Like for example. you are declaring that I am obvious scum and make a big case on me, yet you're voting for RichardGHP. You are pushing for both lynches. My top suspect (Charlie) is taking priority for now, but that should not prevent me from pushing the lynch of my four other suspects as well.

Also, I did and still am pushing for the lynch of CSL. I disliked his Day 1 play and he was my initial vote. Like I said before, he's done nothing to remedy my suspicion on him and put very little effort into the game. Even if it isn't nearly as prevailent as Charlie's, it is still there.

(ISO 40) Gets on Ythan for town-lists again; after the previous encounters with said lists.

I don't oppose to town lists as said before, but they are not more important then scum lists. Yes Town Lists can be used for PoE, but they also contain more risks. Scum lists from townies are usually accosiated with trying to elminate scums.

While still voting for Charlie; he sees Richard's ragequit post and calls it scummy (with emphasis, ISO 42. Hard to explain without you checking it). Still no vote for Richard though; what happened to Charlie-scum? No clue from his posting.

Just because RichardGHP raged quit doesn't mean I'm automatically going to switch my vote over. What if he didn't come back and got replaced by someone who wasn't RichardGHP? Would you still vote for him?

Also, he's taking credit for being the first to suspect Animorph; while never voting for him or really pushing a case against him. Yup, you're really doing what you say (sarcasm).

Suspecting a person =/= voting him. Also, I definently put up a case against him and I still retain heavy suspicion on him and has mentioned him a few times.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Now I'm curious; just how much editing do you do to that post before you decided it was good enough to ship out? Did you feel that two suspects were too few? That you didn't have enough supportive ammo to accuse four? Were you too preoccupied with counterpointing Amished that you failed to realize that 2=/=3=/=4? I wonder. This isn't a freudian slip, but it implies a heavy degree of modification to what you're trying to deliver.

That was an error in my part. By "both", I mean "all three". By "four", I actually mean three. One of your supposed answers is right, I was too preoccupied with my counterpointing on Amished so I kind of forgot to look that paragraph over.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Massive wall of text incoming. brief pbpa, all 43 pages. it will take some time.

First off, I honestly doubt you're going to live up to your promise here. Almost all of your post has been completely contentless and scummy. Secondly, care to explain why you weren't here on July 25, 2010 while posting in another ongoing game we're in?

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

It's going to have to wait for tomorrow. My laptops dying, and I haven't gotten very far. Only about page 7.

Very well, I will give you tomorrow to catch up and for you to make your big post.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Mod: I believe that EGL is on V/LA until August 3rd.

AKA, VIG MILLAR. If he is not dead tomorrow, I propose we

lynch him.

He is a hindrance in every form.

*facepalm*
You do realize that if he's telling the truth about his claim that we lose a Day, right? Me suggesting that millar13 should be policy lynched at the beginning of the Day was a terrible idea and I no longer think it's a good idea. Lynching him puts the town at a risk of losing a Day, something that is unaffordable to lose. This is also directed at CSL.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Xite91: Regarding the contradiction, are you referring to the last post I've made? If so, I do not see the contradiction, show me where you see it.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Changing my stance on the RichardGHP's claim. To be honest, I think RichardGHP could be lying after all. I just realized that if RichardGHP is scum, scum can forgo a Night Kill so RichardGHP can say "I protected this person who was attacked by the Mafia.". He could say that one of his scum buddies was protected by him. If town were to fall into this trap, that's two scums we're very unlikely to ever get rid of.

With that said, I no longer mind a RichardGHP lynch today. I really dislike how he's using the claim as a free pass to not doing anything to help town while almost everyone else has tried to find scums in one way or another. Also look at Rhinox's post here:

Unless Richard can reasonably explain to me why he did not use his role to kill millar or any of his other scum reads (in your next post please), I will vote to lynch him in my next post.

Rhinox asked RichardGHP to reasonably explain to him why he did not use his role to kill millar/his suspects Night 1 in his next post.

Still here, will answer questions later if still alive, no time now.

Completely avoids explaining what Rhinox was asking in that quote. Between July 27, 2010 and July 29, 2010, RichardGHP has a lot of time to decently explain what Rhinox asked him. He's also posted in other games, so he doesn't really have any excuse to not make a proper explanation in this post.

You know what? I don't care if we give RichardGHP's claim a chance anymore. Echoing Xite91 here, he has done pratically nothing productive for the town in all of his sixty-seven posts here and that does not look like to change. The fact that he has not explained why he didn't protect someone Night 1 also points at a fakeclaim in the making. Either way, more evidence points at him being scum then town:

Unvote, Vote: RichardGHP

---

@SSBF - that before you said that you wouldn't mind losing a day to lynch millar, but now you're saying you would?

All right, I see the contradiction. The reason for it is because I had forgotten that there was a vigilante that could potentionally take care of of millar13 and I thought lynching was the only way we could achieve the option. However, I did eventually realize that a vigilante may very well be in this game and we shouldn't rule out the possibility of having one, which is why I'm no longer in favor of a millar13's lynch. Now I would say that RichardGHP's claim if true could use his protect on millar13, but as explained by this post, I've done a complete 180 on my opinion on RichardGHP's claim. So I'm suggesting that if there's a real Vigilante, he should vig millar13 tomorrow. If millar13 is a Beloved Princess and is telling the truth, we have prevented a day from being lost. If millar13 is lying, then we have a dead scum.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Ythan: Yes, I meant that the real vigilante should vig millar13 tonight.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Ythan: I mean that if a real Vigilante exist, he should vig millar13 tonight.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

If the person is indeed a Vigilante, then he is the real deal.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@EGL: You are not at L-1 yet.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Xite91 (#1096): Okay, wait a minute:

I admit that RichardGHP could be lying about his claim and gave what I thought was a plausible scenario to supposedly confirm him if he was scum. And now you're saying I'm a brick wall? I really don't see the message here and it doesn't really make that much sense to me.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@kmd4390: You claim to not like any of the bandwagons that's going on. Yet I haven't heard anything out of you regarding Chronopie, another major bandwagon. Why do you think the Chronopie bandwagon is a bad bandwagon?

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Chronopie: Really don't understand the vote one me. You claim that out of all the early wagoners on Shattered Viewpoint, I was the one with the least amount of reasoning. This I disagree with. I already expressed suspicion on Shattered Viewpoint at least once before and it remained throughout Day 1. I already provided a case against Shattered Viewpoint on why he should be lynched. EGL basically RVS voted Shattered Viewpoint and kept it there. I at least had serious reasons for wanting him lynched.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

2 - Asking about my policy vote on Kmd

And how exactly is this a problem to you?

3 - Asking Dia why they're suggesting alts? Wait, do you remember what you just asked a post ago?

If it's the one about me asking about your policy vote on Kmd4390, then I'd like to know how this is relavent to asking Diacria why they're suggest you're an alt.

5 - Why did you need to defend yourself for that?

Shattered Viewpoint's vote looked serious to me.

6 - Here's where you start throwing spaghetti (I think I defined this before, but if not, it's that you throw a little suspicion on anyone that could be considered even slightly scummy and seeing what sticks, but waiting to vote any of them until one gets a bit more suspicion on them, then saying hey, I had a case on them all along, see?)

I never had a scum read on Kmd4390. I didn't like the comment, but that doesn't mean that person is automatically scummy.

7 - You don't get to dictate these things ya kno (See post 5 of his in ISO)

I did not demand that we get out of RVS now, I was just trying to explain to RichardGHP that it's a good idea to get out of RVS as soon as possible. I am not dictacting when we should end RVS.

8 - Mafia theory, gaming the mod

First argument: I will admit to using Mafia Theory in this, but I did not go on and on and on about it, that's very counterproductive.

Second argument: I honestly do not see how I was guessing the mod. I was using meta to determind why I thought posting restrictions didn't exist. Had the previous game had posting restriction, this argument would not have been used. Furthermore, I give out evidence that Shattered Viewpoint having a posting restriction is implausible. That is analysis his post, not gaming the mod.

11 - More throwing spaghetti, the

non

request for millar to lynch

millar13 was being disrespectful to the mod and to a few others players (I can name off holycon and Reverse Simplicity). Had he continued to do that, had we not known of his claim (Was a mistake on my behalf to push a policy lynch on him even after his claim), and had we not decided on a lynch candidate, I sure as hell would have decided to try to get him replaced or if not possible, policy lynched him. I don't want someone who does not pay respect to the game to be playing the game at all.

As for your other argument, as there are multiple scumbags in the game, I am not going to just focus on one person and tunnel that person. You can claim otherwise, but I have and am still giving my argument on why I did not tunnel Diacria.

12 - Case on Dia (who's list I'm going to look more closely at since she was on the NKs)

And I would like elaboration on why this is one of your "important points" against me.

13 - Teehee, his response to my telling him I saw his techniques on throw and check was, oh I didn't tunnel Dia, I made a post to EGL too.

Which proves that I am not going to just focus on one person throughout most of the game and will discuss other subjects as well.

14 - But claims can also hurt the town. Just sayin.

I can see that they can hurt the town, but they have benefits as well. Granted, he should not have claimed at all (I even told him that it wasn't recommended that he claimed at all), but we have some information thanks to millar13's claim. Plus if RichardGHP is lying about his claim (Which I believe he is), the vigilante can always vig millar13 and this problem would be resolved.

Is this what you were talking about? Point out the WIFOM, I dare you.

Very well, I will:

Scumtells are done more likely by scum then town but if that was really the case why is it that we are most likely going to lynch a townie day one then scum? In short its because the scum tells add up to accurately gauge someone instead of someone just jumping out day one saying "Hey everyone look at me I'm scum!"

1) He changed his vote there too. In big bolded letters, on you actually. How could you miss it? How is that AtE? All it did for me was make me laugh.

First argument: Nice misrep. By until ISO: 22, I was including that post. I knew that he put it out in big bolded letters that he wanted me ded. It was obvious that he voted me and I took account in it.

As for your "It's not AtE" argument, we were out of RVS during the time. I'm sorry, but every scummy post outside of RVS I consider scummy, so I still think it's AtE.

2) Bolded. So, you went with Raider because he had a better case on him? So what you're saying is that he was the safer vote?

Yes I went to raider8169 because I thought he had the best case at the time. Also, if you seriously think that raider8169 is a safe person, then why didn't I vote for the lurkers? Lurkers are an extremely safe target to be in, especially active lurkers and you will receive the least amount of scrunity for voting them because they are the least likely to defend themself. Note that raider8169 was not attacked mainly for active lurking and he actually put forth effort toward defending himself, that isn't a safe vote.

17 - Or it's easier to mask yourself as scum. Just think about it.

I honestly doubt that voting for multiple people at a time makes it easier to mask yourself. You are more likely to gain scrunity from the multiple players that are voting you then from one person you put all your votes on. It also proves that you're more determined to find scums.

Bolded. Lolwut?

I'll re-phrase it for you:
A passive lurker should either be left alone and receive replacement or be pressured to produce (I made a mistake in saying "reduce" when I meant "produce") contents. You cannot analysis a person who has not made any posts in the game, you can only get a null read out of them and only a null read until the slot starts to produce contents to analyze.

Underlined. I thought it was the first paragraph that you found WIFOM-ridden?

It was the first large paragraph that I consider WIFOM-ridden, but it is technically the second paragraph since that major paragraph was two space away from the first paragraph which only contained one sentence. Understand what I'm saying?

20 - You went the easy route with those three. I thought Raider was scummier? Where did that case go anyways? Oh, nevermind I see that his recent play is now townier. That's funny, he seemed to be playing the same to me

Shattered Viewpoint is definently not an easy target. I already have meta to prove that he played a lot better in my first game with him, so he had absolutely no excuse for his poor play, especially as a town member.

Also, I noticed that raider8169 from my POV that he was scum hunting and trying to find scums, his play was scummier back then.

Wait, not if you think he's scum? Noted

By "the game", I mean that he won't benefit the town at all and I really did think he was scum.

22 - Easy case is easy

I was suspecting Shattered Viewpoint since early Day 1, it took me a long time to suspect him. I gave him the benefit of a doubt and he failed to improve.

23 - You seemed really willing to vote me. Why is that? Do I seem like scum? I think I asked this before

I am not willing to vote you at all, especially considering I have a town read on you. I was simply implying that it would be pratically impossible to switch a bandwagon from a person to another person in less then twelve hours (Of course that it was my mistake as it was actually four days).

Wait, huh? First, weren't you the one that said hey, everyone switch your vote to shattered if you don't think he'll benefit town (Not if you think he's scum, mind you)

A person who supports a lynch on another person who flips town can analyze the bandwagon for scums. I am not going to give scums a free ride just because I was supporting the mislynch bandwagon myself.

Next, bolded are the last 5 on the wagon. Now lets see who matches up to your list...
OHAI MILLAR!
Yup, that's it. Interesing

Scums do not always join a mislynch bandwagon, but they can be part of a mislynch bandwagon. Experienced scums like to stay out of a bandwagon to gain town creds for not joining it, so my suspects do not have to be on the mislynch bandwagon.

Where'd ani come from? I guess you just realized that you missed your whole 5 people list thing and decided to add one?

No. Before analyzing the bandwagon, I had four major suspects off the top of my head. After looking at it, animorpherv1 joined the list as I really dislike his play overall. His play is still very scummy.

27 - Good call on what? I think this is what we call buddying up good sir.

I was simply saying he was bringing up a good point. Now had I continued to agree with his reasons, then you could say I was buddying. But you are blowing his out of proportion.

Because people say so

Here's the people that say so

Should I not be able to agree on suspicion? I gave Charlie's ISO a second look and I agreed that he was scummy enough to switch my vote over. Would I seriously do this if I didn't agree with them?

A one-game meta

Well it's better then nothing and I was trying to prove my point that I don't like Charlie's play here.

That can be attributed to the active lurking

His active lurking explained why he wasn't really participating in the game.

How so?

I have already explained this in here:

ISO: 27 is also very scummy. First off, this is definitive hypocrisy where he calls out millar13 for not doing anything, yet despite accumlating a relatively large amount of posts, he has done little to move forward the game, let alone help town. Secondly, he wanted more votes on raider8169. Yet he had put forth little effort toward trying to get raider8169 lynched.

So do you

And so does everyone else. However, Charlie's questions rarely benefits the town at all, they are usually useless.

So do most people in this game

The difference is that Charlie explained very little, if any legitimate reasons for voting his suspects. The most other people lack explanation for some of there suspects, but Charlie give lacks explanation for almost all of them.

Bolded. WAITWAITWAIT weren't you trying to get a policy lynch on Millar? Also, remember that point I noted about you trying to get a SV lynch?

Yes I was trying to get a policy lynch on millar13, but I at least had legitimate reasons. When I realize that the risk outweight the benefits, I stepped out of the plan. And I see your point about Shattered Viewpoint, but it wasn't a policy lynch, I wanted him lynched because I thought he was scum.

Again, so do most people in this game

His bandwagoning of CSL sounds the most shameless and had the least amount of reason for voting CSL

I'm pretty sure I brought some points up against you that you didn't defend, also again so do most people in this game.

There is a difference. I have tried to defend myself against the majority of posts against me. Charlie has put forth next to no effort toward actually defending himself. That's why I called him out for not defending himself.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

I didn't kill millar because I figured he would be killed by someone else, and targeting him in that instance would circumvent the kill.

Hate this explanation. So you're saying that millar13 could have been targetted prevented you from using your role? I honestly doubt that scum would under any circumstances would even attempt to kill millar13 because he knows he's useless and if we lynch him, we lose a day. Then why didn't you target another person that you thought was useless/scummy? Your justification for not using your role yesterday is very inadequate.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Will get back to Xite91 tommorow.

EGL is seeming to gain a lot of suspicion lately. My opinion on him:

I took a good look at his ISO and I'm suspicious of him. Granted, it's not as high as my top five major suspects, but he isn't that bad of a lynch. This is what I dislike about him:

1. I really do agree with people that I didn't like that his reason for voting Shattered Viewpoint was RVS. Throughout Day 1, despite making serious posts, he never makes a serious vote during that day, so I don't see a single decent explanation for keeping his RVS vote on Shattered Viewpoint. Worse yet, he never even suspected Shattered Viewpoint and that's saying something.

2. Basically coasted throughout Day 1. He produced contents, but just barely enough that we don't notice this. To be honest, this kinds of annoys me and I find it a bit scummy.

3. Lack of contents during Day 2. I can understand the election delimma getting in the way during most of Day 2, but what about before it? He didn't really do that much in the game compared to most other people. His last post of Day 1 suggested that he would do some serious catching up and you'd think you would at least gain an explanation on his top suspect. Sadly, this isn't the case. Not only has he not done much today, he hasn't really taken any stance or voted anyone. Not liking this.

So yeah, he hasn't really done enough to my satisfaction. While I do prefer my top five lynch candidates, EGL isn't a bad lynch.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@SSBF - You're doing it again, mr scum

So let me guess, everytime when I find something about a person that I don't like, I'm "throwing spaghetti"? So I can't have a sixth suspect that I won't mind pushing the lynch of?

SSBF: so does that make EGL your number 6? Is there anything you do like about him that keeps him out of your top 5?

1. Yes that would make EGL my #6 suspect.

2. For one thing, he hasn't been as scummy as my top five lynch candidates, that's a given. He tries to at least participate to a certain degree in here while I have seen noticably less effort from my top five suspects (Although Charlie is seeming to actually participate in the game recently, hence why the unvote on him), so he isn't totally useless.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

No, that one was following the crowd, you know, seeing that there's suspicion on someone so posting a case on them. When I was asking for a case one him, I was asking the people that started suspecting him in the beginning.

I know there was a case put on him, but I thought it was already discussed that it wasn't a good case, then suddenly everyone's like, I'm feelin the EGL lynch.

Just because a notable group suspects a person does not always mean a person is following the crowd. Granted, I agree that EGL is suspicious, but not enough so to where it warrants a vote. Another reason why I'm not voting EGL is because two of my major suspects (Charlie and RichardGHP) are on the bandwagon and I will not be joining a bandwagon with some of the scummiest people in the game.

Vote: EGL

I see no town justification for this vote. Seriously,

none

. You didn't even attempt to give an explanation for your vote on him. If EGL is town, this looks like scum trying to blend in with other voters. If EGL is scum, this looks like bussing.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Then stop giving me cause to resort to it.

There are no legitimate town reasons to resort to AtE when under pressure. You didn't even attempt to refute my latest argument against you, making the AtE especially inexcuseable.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Mod: holycon is voting Chronopie, not me. Chronopie is voting me.

~corrected

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

how do you personally separate townie frustration from the same as a scum tactic?

If you're talking about in terms of frustration; a scum tactic would try to get the town sorry for you and forgive you, which the town should not be doing, because a scum is a scum. Such examples are "I can't do anything right!" "If you lynch me, you'll lose!" These and less obvious forms of AtE can be used by scums to persude us into backing them off.

A townie frustration is realizing that he'll more likely then not be lynched yet did all he could to prove that he was town by making logical defenses, trying to find scums, making his opinions known, and trying to benefit town as much as possible.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@EGL: Why not at least give us your suspects? Knowing who you tracked Night 1 is good, but it's also good to give us a list of suspects that you have in the circumstance that you flip town.

FFS SSBF. If he's town, then he's playing to not die. If he's scum, he's doing the same damn thing. It's not alignment indicative; nor an AtE.

I just can't do anything right, can I?

Seriously, this isn't AtE? Looks pretty obvious to me.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Nachomamma8: Why not look at Kingdom of Loathing Mafia and compare it to this game? He was lynched Day 1 and flipped scum.

@Magua: Regarding your three scenarios in where RichardGHP lives, I don't think we should keep him alive tomorrow if no one ends up dying. That is not a way to verify if his claim is true or not in that scenario. These are the most likely reasons why he didn't kill someone in that scenario:

1. He's scum.
2. He's town but got lazy and didn't send in a Night Action.
3. He was roleblocked.

Considering his scummy behavior today and yesterday, I think the first option is the best option out there.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@RichardGHP: Would you mind explaining why you targetted millar13?

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Definently will take a closer look at the EGL bandwagon later. I believe that we have scum on that bandwagon as well and this time, I will take a look at everyone.

Yes.

Why aren't you going to explain to us why you killed millar13? Given that Ythan already counterclaimed you, you should at least provide us a reason why you kiled millar13. If you are not going to cooperate with us, then you are hiding information away from the town and I see no town motivation for doing this. Combining that with your already very scummy play and you're the best lynch for today.

Vote: RichardGHP x3

Will also support a lynch on Charlie, animorpherv1, and Chronopie (Not sure about MichelSableheart, his first few posts sounds townish, but CSL was just awfully scummy. We'll see about him) if RichardGHP doesn't receive the noose.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Given the two claims on the death of millar13, right now I'm leaning toward Ythan. Granted, it doesn't confirm him as town as Kmd4390 pointed out, but given Ythan's more towny play over RichardGHP's very scummy play, plus that I can see more town motivations for Ythan to kill millar13, I'm inclined to believe that Ythan killed millar13 over RichardGHP. Of course one of them being role blocked can be an acceptable explanation, but I feel that RichardGHP killed millar13 for town creds just so he can survive another day.

SSBF, you're an idiot if you don't know/understand why anybody with an ability to kill wouldn't target anybody but millar. You even suggested yesterday that a vig should target millar. Now you question why millar is a target? I don't get it.

If RichardGHP is indeed a vig of some sort, he should have at least given a reason for killing RichardGHP. He deliberately said he did not want to explain why he killed millar13. Most townies would not want to intentionally avoid such question because we could have potentially seen hs own reasons for killing millar13 and we would have gotten more information out of it.

You were clearly just fine with allowing an EGL lynch to happen yesterday. Now, you're quite sure it was scum driven?

You can say that a person can be a decent lynch but that does not mean people jumping into it can't be scums on it. I was fine with an EGL lynch Day 2 because I thought he was scummy, but I do believe there were scums in it trying to find a good place to put their vote in without really commiting much to it.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Plum: Regarding your "SSBF overexplain his voting reasons as scum." argument, when making a vote on a person, I don't want to vote a person based solely on other people's opinions, even if I agree with them. I feel that having your own reasons for voting a person is as important (If not more) as other people reasons, as in Mafia, the only person you know the alignment of is you and the dead people that follows. I'm not saying we should dismiss other people opinions, since they are important as well, but when it comes down to it, you should make your own decisions on how to find scums.

@Xite91:

Of course one of them being role blocked can be an acceptable explanation, but I feel that RichardGHP killed millar13 for town creds just so he can survive another day.

I think you're referring to this. Is this correct? If that's the case, then what I meant to say was that one of Ythan/RichardGHP being role blocked could be an acceptable explaination, but if RichardGHP did perform the kill, I feel that he did it for town creds so he can live to see another day.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

animorpherv1's attack on Ythan is just terrible. I don't see how Ythan is scummy and animorpherv1 has failed to convince me otherwise. I particularly don't like these from his attack on Ythan:

This reeks of scum. The way I'm seeing it, he should be providing reasons why he shouldn't be lynched over Richard/SSBF.

Instead, he just pops in to say "Why is SSBF being voted for?"

Vote: Ythan

This looks like strawmanning here. He did not say why I was being voted for, he was just saying that why there was bandwagons beside him and RichardGHP.

Oh yay, more "Secret Scumtells". Those, IMO, until lshown,are as good as nil. I never listen to anyone who claims seceret scumtells, because they could be scum using it to get people to vote.

Why is he having role-base information on RichardGHP a "secret scum tell"? I am totally not seeing that. Furthermore, where did he claim that he has "secret scum tells"?

---

I'm all for opportunities to provide information and slipups, but asking richard why he targetted millar is not going to lead to catching scum, nor is it a scum tell if richard didn't provide an answer. All scum in Richard's position would have to do is say "I killed millar because everyone wanted him nked and he claimed Day BP" and that is a perfectly acceptable answer because its true. Its also a simple and easy answer. Its also the answer I would expect from any honest vig.

If RichardGHP didn't provide an explanation. This results in hiding information away from town, therefore, scums do not have to worry about sliping up by not expaining himself. Also, he doesn't even explain his reason for why he killed millar13. Giving a simple explanation like the example you gave him would be enough for me to not vote him. He outright refused to do so and that's why my vote on him.

If I could vote you again I would for this comment alone. Being ok with a lynch but not voting reeks of avoiding responsibility for the outcoming. Then, turning around after the flip trying to look for reasons to accuse those who WERE on the wagon just seems incredibly hypocritical and very scummy. Its like you've come full circle on avoiding responsibility for EGL's lynch.

Its like your saying "voting for EGL is scummy, but being ok with the lynch is just fine since there was no vote".

- I can be fine with a lynch, but that does not mean you have to vote for the person. I thought EGL was scummy, but RichardGHP, Charlie, Chronopie, animorpherv1, and CSL (Now MichelSableheart) were considerably scummier then EGL. My top suspect as of that time was RichardGHP, I will not be changing my vote to my lesser suspects unless it's meant to prevent a No Lynch. I am also able to accuse people of blatantly bandwagoning EGL for not providing any reasons to do so. Even with my raider8169 vote Day 1, I at least took the time to add a reason in for voting, I will not just simply say "Oh this guy is suspicious, I'll switch my vote on him!".

Bolded: This is completely wrong. Voting EGL at the time would not be a scum tell. The problem with the EGL bandwagon was that a lot of people were blatantly bandwagoning on EGL and that didn't sit well with me.

Everyone on the SV wagon from Amished onwards was blatantly bandwagoning. Why would he only look at the last 5 players on the wagon, when their behaviour is exactly the same as that of at least three other players?

Beacause under those groups, you'll find the most amount of scums in it. Scums tend to vote late on a lynch wagon and they get caught if they don't explain why they are voting for that person. I made sure to personally exploit the last five people because they are the most likely scums in the game.

By the way, did you know that kmd was 6th from last, and charlie 7th from last on that wagon?

Yes I did. Charlie is one of my major suspects here, the reason why I didn't attack him originally is because scums were most likely later on the bandwagon. However, re-reading Charlie through his ISO, my mind on him immediately changed and I have been majorly suspecting him since.

SSBF was a follower on the original raider wagon, played an important role in the SV mislynch, was pressuring along on Richard and expressed interest in the EGL lynch.

- I was not a blatant wagoner on raider8169. I can assure you that there were worse vote on him.

- And why exactly should I gain the majority of the blame for Shatterd Viewpoint's lynch? I clearly thought he was scum and I thought I pushed a decent case on him. As you said, there were blatant bandwagoners on Shattered Viewpoint, I do not see how my vote on Shattered Viewpont was scummier then some of the later votes.

- I already had a solid scum read on RichardGHP. I finally realized that proving RichardGHP would be next to impossible unless a lynch/NK were to occur on him. Plus with his scummy behavior, I switched my vote on him. And I intend to do so until either (A: He is lynched. Or (B: Someone else comes up as scummier.

- Already explained above why I feel this is not scummy.

Furthermore, ISOing Diacra, SSBF was her top suspect, giving him a strong motive to kill her.

During part of Day 1, that was true. However, at the end result, Diacria was on CSL. Which basically disprove your point.

SSBF was the player pushing for the beloved princess kill early day 2.

"The" players? I believe there was others wanting a lynch on millar13 as well (Chronopie gave millar13 a HoS on millar13, indicating that he thinks he's a good lynch, but thought there was a better lynch candidate). Furthermore, I also took back my policy lynch statement on millar13 early Day 2, realizing that it was a stupid idea and that I forgot the possibility of a vigilante existing.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Charlie, why are you reverting back to your very scummy "not trying" style of your that you had during Day 1 and most of Day 2? This was why I suspected you so strongly during Day 2 and even pushed for your lynch.

@Everyone: you can update your last will at anytime! Don't pass up this valuable opportunity to make a difference.

This is common knowledge, we don't need you to repeat it when we could simply read the first page of the thread.

Okay! Sheesh.

Just tell me who I should vote. I may just decide to blatantly follow you (unless you think it is me who is mafia).

Get your own opinion. I personally think you have a high chance of flipping scum and you saying that you'll blatantly follow anyone doesn't help your case.

---

1) Read my attack on him, it will make a bit more sense, also I think that's what Ani was trying to say, but he'll have to confirm/deny that on his own.

Was it regarding the possibility of another inventor and that animorpherv1 got another role? If so, it's still not making much sense. Furthermore, I don't see animorpherv1 saying that he doesn't see how Ythan is scummy when he's voting for Ythan.

2) How many other wagons were there? In fact, how many other people were being voted for?

Right now, a Charlie wagon is currently building. And to answer your second question, four. You, Ythan, Charlie, and animorpherv1.

4) But, you said later that the lynch seemed scummy, didn't you?

I'm not saying that EGL's lynch overall was scummy (He did deserved it, although I would have prefer that my more major suspect died instead), but how some people joined the bandwagon was indeed scummy.

5) You're missing one vital flaw: You're wrong
Scum can be anywhere on a wagon, hell they can even be the ones that started it.

Notice that I did not say "All scums who joins a bandwagon are late in the bandwagon", I said scums tend to join late in the bandwagon. I was not ruling out the possibility of scums being anywhere else on the bandwagon.

6) I'm pretty sure his point was that you were on all of the wagons, not your reasoning for it, because scum can go, "yeah and this too!" as well as town do, and oftentimes, they're even the ones more likely to do it

I was not on the Day 1 Twomz bandwagon and I was not on the Day 2 EGL's lynch wagon either. First is a minor example, second is a major example.

How was Diacria a threat to CSL? Yes, she was voting him, but do you see any indication that she might be able to convince others to join her?

By the time that Day 1 ended, she was the only person on the CSL bandwagon. Going further into your question, Diacria said that it's strange that the Day 1 CSL bandwagon wasn't as large as it should have been where he was usually either destroyed by town, bussed by scum, or a combination of both and then said he retracted his gut read of CSL.

Everyone else who attacked millar on day 2 (Charlie, CSL) was effectively following your case. And yes, you retracted it when it became clear that the lynch wasn't happening, but that doesn't mean you didn't try.

I can see your point here, but unlike my other suspects {RichardGHP, CSL, Charlie, animorpherv1}, I did not make a full-blown effort toward making a policy lynch on millar13. I only wanted to save it as a last resort if we couldn't agree on lynching a person we thought was scum.

7) Who else was pushing for an actual lynch? Sometime's I'll FoS etc to hint at a vig who they should target.

I've already mentioned Chronopie. CSL also wanted to lynch millar13. Although I will admit (As MichelSablehart brought up), they were following my case.

Unvote

Reading RichardGHP's ISO, it turns out that he did explain his reason for killing millar13 after all, just that I was not counting in previous days (He explained his reason for. Will need to decide where my vote on.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Xite looks like bad town to me.

Please explain why he is just a "bad townie". Xite91 has been far superior to you in terms of scum hunting, attacking people, being commited to the game, etc. Because I'm not seeing it.

1483 makes very little sense. Batt, could you please rearrange it into one coherent thought?

I don't see how Battousai could have made his stance anymore clear there. It is clearly coherent thought and I understand what he's meaning.

---

2) Four in a large game? That's nothing. Also how many votes did each of those people have?

Charlie has two, the rest has one. Still the point of my post was that it's not just me and RichardGHP that people are voting for, although we are the majority.

5) So you're saying you did not just focus us on those people

Everyone should receive some kind of focus on the EGL bandwagon but the people that I feel that deserve the most attention are people late on the bandwagon. Scums don't always join late in the bandwagon, but more likely then not, if they are on the bandwagon, they are the most likely to be late.

6) Twomz wagon = really minor
EGL wagon = you were fine with (AKA borderline fence-sitting)

1. Yes, but it is better then nothing.
2. I was fine with the EGL bandwagon, but as said before, the way some people joined the bandwagon was scummy. You can think a person is the best lynch out of everyone else, yet some people will join it in a scummy manner.

Oh you mean those people that no one really cared to listen to? Yeah, they would push a wagon well.

Even if they haven't done much to support the bandwagon, at least it's bettter then nothing.

Huh? You think Ythan killed millar over Richard, but you think Richard killed millar for town cred? I'm lost.

Okay, I'll need to clarify this.

I believe that Ythan more likely killed millar13 then RichardGHP did and I believe Ythan's story more then RichardGHP's. IF RichardGHP did kill millar13, then I think he is scum trying to gain town creds by saying he killed millar13. However, thinking about it, I believe that if both Ythan and RichardGHP kill millar13, I think Ythan is the vig while RichardGHP is the scum. Yes I do believe a possibility of a second scum group.

Smash Bras, are you saying that you think Richard performed the kill as an ordinary scum kill and Twomz was killed by a second scum group?

It is very well possible. If RichardGHP is scum, he may have claimed the kill on millar13 to gain town creds. I'll need to explain this more.

---

Explaning my theory on multiple scum groups being possible.

We are in an originally twenty-three players game. 20+ games usually indicates a possibility of a second scum group, there can multiple scum groups as low as twelve.

Night 2, we had two kills. One on millar13 and one on Twomz. Given that both Ythan and RichardGHP claimed the kill on millar13, that means the following circumstances:

First scenario is where both Ythan and RichardGHP are telling the truth about their role and did kill millar13. That means there is probably one scum factions.

Second scenario is where RichardGHP is scum and Ythan is town and both killed millar13. Given that there was a second kill during Night 2, I wouldn't be surprised if we had two scum factions.

Third scenario is where Ythan is scum and RichardGHP is town. Since Ythan claimed he was a one-shot vig, I think this indicates one scum factions.

Fourth scenario is where both are scums. In this case, there has to be two scum groups, no way about it.

The fourth scenario is unlikely to happen. The first three is plausible thought and I feel that one of those scenarios are likely true. Of those, I believe the second scenario the best.

---

Smash Bras, what are your thoughts on Ythan?

Slight town read for me. When he does post, he does make good insights on the situation, contributing to the game, and helps the town out. Not that I think he's obvious town as I do have stronger town reads, but not someone I would lynch today. Plus his claim to me about the one-shot vig deal on millar13 is believeable.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

5) Really? Worst. Argument. Ever.
You do realize of course, that no matter what wagon, there will be scum, and they are possible to be ANYWHERE on said wagon, and not more likely to be in any particular spot. And sometimes, they stay OFF of a town wagon just to gain town cred, and then guess what they do? They say there was definitely scum on said wagon.

Yes I do. However, as said before, I am not ruling out the possibility of scums being earlier on a bandwagon (I have major suspicion on Charlie, who was in the middle of the Shattered Viewpoint's bandwagon). However, I feel that scums are most likely going to be late in the bandwagon. The bandwagon by then has already been established and will likely go through, so scums do not have to worry about doing much of the work.

6) Fence-sitting is just as scummy most of the time, though

While I was fine with the EGL bandwagon, I was not fine with how some people joined the EGL bandwagon. I voted for my top suspect, Shattered Viewpoint, yet I thought some people had scum motivation for joining the wagon, would that be considered fence-sitting?

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Actually, I have something I wanted to say which has aleardy been covered by MichelSableheart in #1526. It is true that Nachomamma8 is playing subpar. I already said earlier that my past experience with him he was very pro-town to the point of being ridiculous. He isn't the same here.

This can only mean 2 things.

And what exactly are those two things?

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@animorpherv1: Your case on Battousai is downright absymal. Your only reason is that he jokingly claimed that third-party cult won, which was clearly

not

a serious statement in any shape or form. Yet you think this is enough to justify a vote on him. How is him jokingly claiming that an anti-town faction won is by any stretch a scum tell? And this isn't a good reason either. Also, that exact same post is a deflection from Rhinox's #1656. You didn't even answer Rhinox's questions, instead asked why would a person fake being a cult. These things are so scummy, it's enough to warrant a

Vote: animorpherv1

---

Well I think he is confirmed town. At the very least, he was responsible for the death of millar13.

How is Ythan confirmed town? Yes he was responsible for killing millar13, but a death of a townie is not an indication of alignment.

---

For those of you who are caught up all the way, I figured I'd post this to see if you make anything different out of it than I do.

Regarding your argument for how I'm one of the three most likely scums if Plum flips town, I do not see how me having major wall of texts pushing the Shattered Viewpoint wagon is consider to be scummy from your perspective. Furthermore, my attack on Shattered Viewpoint when I was voting him were not "major wall of texts". Were they decently-sized, yes, but not major wall of texts.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Also, to the people voting ani... is he being opportunistic or is he just acting noobish? Would scum-ani try and get an opportunistic lynch on me instead of someone else (ie SSBF who was the second leading wagon at the end of yesterday)?

I would not say he is acting opportunistic in terms of voting you. He used an obviously joking statement for you as

the

reason for voting you is extremely weak. animorpherv1 has provided absolutely no other legitimate explanation of you being scummy.

You're refuting the semantics of one sentence rather than the post in general? What do you think about the rest of what I posted?

The reason why I only refuted that sentence was because I thought the rest of the post was actually good and towny-like. I don't see the need to attack everything if I'm just defending myself.

As for how it's scummy: You supported a townie wagon (null on its own without context), but more importantly you spent a lot of time and energy supporting it relative to some. Now that I think about it in this light, it's probably more of a point against you if Plum flips scum -- scum!SSBF would have more of a motivation to push an SV lynch than town!SSBF would. Hmm.

First off, I supported the Shattered Viewpoint wagon Day 1 because I thought Shattered Viewpoint was the most likely scum during Day 1. Secondly, I don't see how spending a lot of time and energy supporting a wagon that was relative to some is necessarily more likely to come from a scum. If you think a person has a high probability of being scum, you should be commited to spending a lot of time to getting that person lynched. Thirdly, as you claim that Plum flipping scum would be more of a point against me, I'd like to see the connection between me and Plum that would indicate that we could both be scum if one of us flip scum.

Based on this, I can sheep his suspicion on SSBF, esuriospiritus and

Battousai.

I bet 1 dinner that there is at least one mafioso in these three jokers.

MichelSableheart didn't really actively push for Battousai's lynch like he did with mine and esuriospiritus/Magua. I don't think you're going to get much out of his case on Battousai just based on reading him.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Currently responding to Xite91's case on me.

---

Plum's Day 4 posting looks erratic to me, compared to her Day 3 play, where she exhibited more town behavior.

I agree with Xite91 that I didn't like the first paragraph of Plum's first post yesterday. I don't see how town could know how two players were not blocked, the only way you would know that two players were not blocked is if you are scum or a town with a role blocking ability. Regardless, it is scummy. And no, editing that quote doesn't do anything to recitify that.

Also Plum, you should have been caught up by now. You admitted to be struggling a lot, which looks like you haven't caught up yet. If you haven't caught up, did you attempt to catch up during the Night? If not, why not?

I believe once scum knew there was a counter claim, they believed one of the two would be lynched. I think they would jump on early.

While scums can be in any part of the bandwagon, I disagree that scums are more likely to jump on the bandwagon early. Rather, I still believe that they would jump on later/without reasons. People who voted for RichardGHP early I believe are more likely to be townies because there was no clear direction in which the lynch was going. People who voted late, specially those without reasoning, are more likely to be scum because by then, a bandwagon on that person has been established and a lynch on that person is less likely to happen, plus people before have already explained, so they are less likely to give sufficent reasons to join the wagon.

SSBF's vote is early as well. This whole post strikes me as off. Wants Richard to share his information, but is voting him. This is telling me he thinks Richard is scum (the vote) but at the same time talks to Richard as if he is town. That, combined with stating he supports a lynch on 3-4 others if Richard doesn't get lynched puts him as more likely scum than Locke.

1. I wanted RichardGHP to share information with us because I wanted to see if RichardGHP was actually CPR Doctor or that if he was fakeclaiming scum.

2. Not seeing that at all. I had thought that RichardGHP was likely scum and I supported evidence that he was scum throughout Day 2 and Day 3. Day 3, I was pretty certain that he was scum due to his claim which I believe was false and previous scummy actions.

3. Just because I supported RichardGHP the most didn't mean that he had to be lynched that day or I would throw a fit over it. If he wasn't lynched on that day, I was willing to compromise for Charlie/Chronopie/animorpherv1 as well as they themself have been scummy as well.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Still working on the rebuttal against Xite91 and Plum defense on me.

---

1) But didn't you direct him yesterday? And even if you didn't, I know you saw how many other people did.

Read my ISO Day 2 and I don't remember doing this. Will check back tomorrow to see if I had or not.

Also, where's your response to me again?

Currently working on it.

@SSBF, is there a reason you've pressured Plum to be fully caught up but haven't said anything to me about taking my sweet ass time catching up? Just curious.

The difference between you and Plum is mainly your Day 4 play. I see a lot more town motivation for your Day 4 play, more contributing, more scum hunting, and more of what I would expect from a townie. Plus you are on LA so I can understand that.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

I am posting this in this game and two others in Theme Park.

Apology for not posting yesterday as I had no time to do so. Unfortunently, I have no time to make a substantial post today either, as I'm behind in homework and other important stuffs that I need to do, plus I had to post in a game that's approaching deadline quickly.

Will post more contents after school tomorrow.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Ythan: One of your top suspicion yesterday was animorpherv1. Do you still think that he is worthy of being lynched today?

This is disingenuous - by your logic, assuming I'm a Town blocking powerrole I wouldn't know either, because in that case either I'd have blocked someone other than Richard/Ythan and not known whether a scum blocker went after either, or I'd have blocked one of them that Night and have indicated yesterday that one of them got blocked and we should take that into account. Again, no blocking happening on either of them was an assumption I was willing to list as very probable yesterday, due to lack on Twomz blockage. We didn't have the flip then, so I wouldn't have made assumptions like which of them would've been scum and how scum would've acted then before the flip. Now we do have a flip, and it's proved that Richard was a liar, albeit a Town-aligned liar. Assuming Ythan-Town, no block, scum would've been very confused and yet very happy: Two townies seemed to have caught themselves in a you-or-me-one-is-a-scumbag situation, and might've exhibited, in retrospect, strange behavior because or either cautiousness with the situation (waiting on certain factors to maximize mislynch potential in the event of new information in the ongoing situation) or otherwise (excess enthusiasm, and any behavior out of the ordinary - like Kmd calling Richard Town and Ythan not so much, for example).

While the majority of your argument is good, the one thing I disagree with this is where RichardGHP couldn't have been blocked. Despite his scummy play Day 1 and Day 2 (Which would be a major factor for his lynch Day 3), it is possible that scums could have choosen to roleblock RichardGHP in hopes of stopping the suppose vig kill, since his claim kills a person that he protects, but not targetted by a killing role.

SSBF- I think scum can jump on later, but that is usually a tell of not knowing who would be lynched and not wanting to put forward a strong case to get the wagon forming. In this case, there was reason for the lynch and it seemed that a Ythan/Richard lynch would be inevitable. So, in order to avoid the scrutiny of being near the end of the wagon, they would vote sooner rather than later. This is all WIFOM, but I still believe my theory is more likely correct.

1. I wouldn't say that a Ythan/RichardGHP's was completely inevitable. Two reasons for believing this were Ythan counterclaimed RichardGHP and Ythan's stronger play. Because of Ythan's more believeable claim and more towny play, people believed his claim more then RichardGHP. Sure there was a few people expressing concerns about Ythan (You for a brief period of time is an example of this), but in the end, people clamored for RichardGHP's lynch more then Ythan's.

2. If that's the case, we'll have to agree to disagree on when scums would be the most likely to jump on the bandwagon.

I don't really have anything to contribute, I'm just waiting until it's time to put my obvtown status to use.

You claiming the kill on millar13 and RichardGHP's vanilla townie flip does not indicate you as obvious town. Is it evidence that you killed millar13 with your one-shot inventer gift? Yes, but not an alignment indicator.

And another thing, claiming to not have anything to say is extremely lazy and scummy. There's quite a few things to talk about today and you choosing to not contribute accomplish nothing.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

You're welcome for giving you the opportunity to turn your poor case against me into a vote.

Saying that you have nothing to contribute to the game is not an inadequate reason to suspect a person.

And that comes before even getting to his own iso. Should not be alive at this point in the game, would not be if I had been more involved thus far.

Day 3, you were dead set on RichardGHP being scum since you counterclaimed him Day 3. Now you are saying that I would be dead by now if you have been involved. Not seeing why I would be dead now if you have been more involved in this game.

Oh, this does not change the fact that I firmly believe that Plum and Nachomamma8 are mafia. Moar votes on these two jokers please!

If you firmly believe that Plum and Nachomamma8 are scum and are clamoring for more votes on them, you should be voting for one of those two. Not voting for either makes no sense to me.

This is nonsense. So much so that it is somewhat (mildly) sickening.

Then explain to Locke Lamora.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Because you're awful?

RichardGHP's play can be describe as

exactly that

. I honestly do not see how I played any worse then him as he did very little to help town in this game while alive when I have at least attempted to help find scums and explain why I find a particular person suspicious.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Will post more tomorrow since I don't have time to make a big post, but this caught my attention

Jesus Christ you guys haven't said shit lately.

This quote is ironic to me. Amished is claiming that we haven't said anything lately (Which I disagree with, there is always something to comment on and people making useful posts) yet as of this post, he hasn't really done that much scum hunting today.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Claim: Vanilla Townie

Given that my lynch is virtually unavoidable, I will give some last thoughts on the situation.

- At least one scums are in animorpherv1, Charlie, and Chronopie, I am certain of this. None of the players have been very helpful in terms of catching scums and I have expressed my scum read on them numerously. I have pretty solid scum reads on them.

- Other guesses for the remaining scums are Ythan, Plum, and possibly Locke Lamora, thought I am not as confident with these reads as I am with my top three suspects.

- People that I can safely say to be town logic-wise and gut-wise are Jahudo, Battousai, esuriospiritus, and Rhinox. All of the players have contributed significantly to helping the town out and have shown pro-town motivation with almost every single one of their posts. Everyone else is either a town read but with gut scum vibe (Won't mention who they are) or neutral (Again I will not explain who they are).

- @Amished: Yes I did find your irony post scummy, although that alone isn't necessarily enough to put you on my scum list. And yes, that was analyzing your post as I explained that it was an irony, that's analyzing the post.

- Amished's "slip post" is certaintly interesting and while esuriospiritus did make a good point about it coming more likely from scum then from town, the only multi-kill this game so far was Night 2 and Ythan claimed the second kill who he claimed came from a inventor. As a result, I am not completely sure if it was a scum slip or not.

- Despite me feeling that my wagon is mostly town-driven, I did not like Chronopie's entry into it at all. Even thought the people on this wagon is wrong about me being scum, they at least explained why they voted me. Chronopie hasn't done any of this, not even parrot other people reasons for joining a bandwagon.

I trust this town to find scums and lynch them. Please make sure my lynch is the last mislynch in this game.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

SSBF, to the best of my recollection Xite was one of the first major advocates of your lynch. Would you mind elaborating what you think of her?

She's a town read logic-wise, but with a gut scum vibe from me (Yes I said I wouldn't reveal town reads with gut scum vibes, but I'll make an exception here). In this case, I will believe what I think of her logic-wise instead of my gut.

Now for why I think Xite91 is town, she is an aggressive player who has been one of the strongest scum hunters in the game and if town, will be one of town's best asset. Even thought she is misguided about me being scum, she voice her suspicion on every one of her suspects and makes them known, that is what I would expect a townie to do.

Personally, no. We can only speculate on why he requested replacement (my guess is he doesn't find this game interesting/tired of it). He might just not care and didn't want to interfere with the game.

Those are possible reasons, but another theory is that animorpherv1 flaked under pressure given that he has been under a lot and does not want to deal with them anymore, which is indicative of scum.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

My reads were almost completely wrong and I sucked for the majority of the game before getting lynched.

That'll teach me not to overfill in games again.