Mafia on Holy Orders (Game Over!)

[Friend]

Vote: Plum

I'm eating one right now, as a matter of fact.

[Friend]

P.S. Vi - love the "mood music." Takes me back to my younger days...what a game.

[Friend]

Animorph, what do you mean by statuses?

[Friend]

I was totally expecting that Come Sail Away link to be the Styx song...which I'm not a huge fan of. Instead it's awesome Donkey Kong music!

I'm starting my semi-flavorless games with Come Sail Away as an homage to Mafia ViPod... where it WAS referring to the Styx song.
Last time the link went to this. ~Vi

[Friend]

Vote: Sociopath

Were Sociopath town in a game with me in it, it would be the first time.

Vote: Iecerint

This guy is ALWAYS SCUM when I am around.

You guys are always scumbuddies?

[Friend]

What? How is that sucking up to the mod?

Also, why do you think players are voting you, saying "You'll see" about your play?

[Friend]

Why is it that if someone makes a case on you, they're scum? Isn't that basically OMGUS?

Why are you voting iecerint? How has he lied?

[Friend]

Yeah,

vote: Furcolow

[Friend]

Also, Furcolow:

I'm lynching you because I've taken a look in several other games, and you have provided

terrible

reasoning in every game, and you act even more scummy than I DO.

This is the one policy lynch I support.

Okay, Ani, so here's the essence what you're getting at:

1. Furcolow acts scummy as town.
2. Furcolow is in this game and acting scummy.
3. You want to policy lynch him for his behavior, even though he acts this way as

town

.
4. You want to lynch town.

unvote, vote: animorpherv1

Furcolow has already proven himself to be a VI. Making the distinction between VI-town and VI-scum is hard, although I'm kind of getting town vibes (unfortunately).

Here's where those song quotes come from in the "statuses," by the way - maybe it will help some:

I've Seen Your Face Before My Friend, But I Don't Know if You Know Who I Am:

"In The Air Tonight" by Phil Collins

Just Turn Around Now, 'cuz You're Not Welcome Anymore:

"I Will Survive" by Gloria Gaynor

All We Are is Dust in the Wind:

"Dust in the Wind" by Kansas

You Promised Me Heaven and Put Me Through Hell:

"You Give Love a Bad Name" by Bon Jovi

Wastin' Away Again in Margaritaville:

"Margaritaville" by Jimmy Buffett

The "Dust in the Wind" players seem like dead ones, perhaps. Not sure about the other ones. It's probably useless to speculate anyways, we'll soon find out (I hope).

[Friend]

Vezo, you got nothing more than that?

[Friend]

Yes, vezo, stuff has already happened. What do you think about ani's suggestion for a policy lynch?

Furcolow...those tells aren't tells anymore. Stop using "wiki-tells" and do some real scumhunting.

[Friend]

Again, ani, Furcolow was town in that game.

[Friend]

Vezo, what instances have you seen where a policy lynch worked D1? Links please.

Ani, you obviously don't know how to deal with VI's. Lynching him D1, if you think he's town, is just a complete waste of a lynch and it's a scummy suggestion. Save him for the vig.

Also, how will his play "cost us the game?" He's only one guy.

[Friend]

Furc, no need for attacks like that. Calm down.

[Friend]

Then we vig him.

Ani, what I don't understand is the meta you use for Furc is Furc's

town meta

. You imply that his play there is similar to his play here; transitively, that means you're implying that he's town. Yet, you want to lynch him, and that is scummy to me.

Furc, then why aren't you voting for vezok?

[Friend]

Also, Furcolow:

I'm lynching you because I've taken a look in several other games, and you have provided

terrible

reasoning in every game, and you act even more scummy than I DO.

This is the one policy lynch I support.

That's doesn't sound

anything

like what you said up here.

@Socrates: Wagon? Sure. Pressure on him will let us know if he's a scum VI or not. Policy lynch, though? Hell no.

Now a question for you: Why do you think Ani is town?

[Friend]

@Socrates: Wagon? Sure. Pressure on him will let us know if he's a scum VI or not. Policy lynch, though? Hell no.

Now a question for you: Why do you think Ani is town?

Oh really? You are riding the policy lynch wagon for reasons of "pressure"? Well, he has gotten his pressure and responded quite clearly. Lets see some conclusions.

vote: Friend

Townies are more likely to instigate a policy lynch wagon while scumbags are more likely to ride shotgun on them (like you are, not coincidentally). Ani seems to genuinely think that Furc will be a disruption to the town and wants him dead. Regardless of whether his play is optimal or not, his motivations seem genuine to me.

@Socrates: First off, I'm not on the wagon, which you seem to have missed. I don't want him lynched but I'm not fighting actively to diffuse it or anything - it's just an early-day wagon and those are always good. I don't think he has said enough to draw a conclusion, yet, honestly, although I'm leaning towards town. What do you think? Is he town or scum?

@Furcolow: Who are your top suspects, then, if not SocioPath or vezo? Also, three paragraph policy? Bad idea.

[Friend]

Furc, why locke lamora? Is he more than 98% scum?

@Socrates: Why am I more scummy than the other players "riding shotgun" on the Furc PL wagon (who've actually placed votes down)?

[Friend]

@ Furco -- It is my personal interpretation that your unusual style is an affectation, and that you have a main account elsewhere that is better-behaved. Also, even if that's not the case, the flagrancy of those 2 posts after Friend's question look like answer-by-example to me.

I actually do not have a main that is better behaved, and I would say that my tone and word choice are not affectations. I had to look up that word. I like it. My play, however, is an affectation. I "play the fool". Good call.

I actually have a very good sense of who is scum based on the reactions that I have had so far. Some of the people who are "sitting on the fence" with my play = town. Most of the people who are like the third, fourth, and fifth people to attack me will generally be scum. I use what I've done more than people expect.

I'll give an example: I'll post a list using an RNG. They don't see the reason for me doing things such as trying to lynch using an RNG. They say "using an RNG is scummy, you cannot lynch with an RNG." My reason for doing it isn't under the delusion of actually being able to lynch someone with it, but to gather information based upon how people react to it.

Socrates: This post feels

just

like VI-town to me. He's posted things similar to this that gave me that impression earlier.

Thats exactly what I mean by riding shotgun on the wagon. You aren't going to push the wagon, but yay pressure!

Why is this bad? The wagon isn't going to lead to a lynch on page 5. I'm obviously not trying to distance myself from the wagon, and pressure leads to information which leads to finding scum.

As for furc's alignment, I think everything he has done so far he would probably do regardless of alignment. He's frazzled and getting pushed around by the other players. This wagon is dumb, but not the kind of dumb that says anything about his alignment. Unless you are scum, in which case he is town.

This is a complete cop-out. You acted like the wagon had reached the point where we could draw conclusions from his reactions, and then you provide none. I find that scummy.

Because lynching either is a plus?

He's scummier than anyone else who has posted.

Yes. Mislynching, always a plus.

This is exactly what I said about ani, and you dismissed it and called ani town. What is the difference between Sebguer and ani?

[Friend]

I am admitting that I'm not trying to distance myself from the wagon. I've said I support the wagon. That's the opposite of distancing.

Ani never said Furcolow acts scummy as Town; he said that he provides poor reasoning and acts scummy across the board. He never said Furcolow acting scummy = Furcolow Town. The implication made, that Ani had reason to believe that Furcolow was, due to his behavior, Town, is completely illegitimate.

The only meta ani had of Furc was his TOWN META. That means that he had only seen Furcolow acting scummy AS TOWN.

[Friend]

@Friend, you are admitting to what? Being scum? Oh.

What?

[Friend]

I knew you would say this. I am NOT the one that intimated that wagons are productive. In fact, I specifically said that I think such attitudes are bologna, and me demanding content from you is me calling you out on such bullshit.

Okay. I didn't get that impression from your post but that's fine - just a difference of opinion, I suppose.

Could you please attempt to articulate this impression more clearly? An important question to make such an articulation easier: What do you think a scum-VI would do differently?

Be less out-in-the-open. Use less AtE. Not say things like this:

I'm also not saying "i am not be scum this game", because that is pointless. You all don't know whether or not I am scum. I can try to convince you all through my play, but that has been failing so far.

Would you all rather me 1) stop taking the spotlight as a town, and potentially get mislynched through not defending myself as actively?
2) continue taking the spotlight, and posting like I am?

Not take such huge risks in the early game. Try to appease the town. Wagon aimlessly. Look at drmyshottyizsik's play here for a beautiful example of VIscum. Furc is not playing like that.

I never once said that Sebguer was scum.

I didn't say you did, but you sure acted like that quote he said was scummy. Otherwise, what were you trying to point out?

PREVIEW:

@Beefster: That was a fairly useless post. Just read to me like you wanted to look at the players with suspicion on them and throw down FoSes. That's bogus.

When you made that post, the bit you commented on, Ani had mentioned Furc's meta in general. He said "I'm lynching you because I've taken a look in several other games, and you have provided terrible reasoning in every game, and you act even more scummy than I DO." He made no mention of whether Furc had been Town, scum, or a mix in those several games from which the meta had been drawn. He implied no likeliness of Furc to be Town in consideration of his play, only that he consistently provided poor reasoning and acted scummy.

Furc has never been scum on MS. Therefore, ani had not seen his scum meta - in fact, he even later asked for it specifically.

Saying that you're supporting the wagon while also screaming 'but I'm not actually voting him!' screams distancing from something which you are actually actively pushing.

Sigh. I don't

really

support the wagon anymore, as I think we've gleaned enough from it. If it turned into a situation where we were ready to lynch Furcolow this early in the game, I would take a definitive stance against it.

@Socrates: I find that notion (of wanting to lynch Furc no matter what his alignment) scummy. I'm not misinterpreting his intentions.

[Friend]

Okay, maybe I misinterpreted ani slightly. Still, though, as I said, wanting to lynch Furc regardless of alignment I find scummy.

[Friend]

Who would you like to pressure, Furcolow?

I believe streamlined discussion like Furcolow is suggesting is ineffective; mafia doesn't boil down to a formula where you can pressure people one at a time.

[Friend]

You have 5 pages to read. It's not that hard to formulate an opinion and say it rather than say "Hm let me see who has the most votes on them and I'll say I'm suspicious of them too."

unvote, vote: Beefster

[Friend]

Speaking of posting for the sake of posting, Locke...do you have anything to say other than that, considering you haven't commented on the events of the last 5 pages either?

[Friend]

Beefster, what gives you the impression there's more than one player with a post restriction?

[Friend]

Socrates is either horribly misguided or scum. Defending ani I can see, but beefster? Really?

[Friend]

What's the scum motivation for defending Beefster?

Either they're scumbuddies or he's distancing himself from a possible mislynch to gain "town cred" if Beefster indeed is town.

Comparatively, with Friend's play, I am coming from the latter perspective. I believe his earlier play had hints of dissonance with regards to his stances on Ani and Furcolow. His stance (Thinks Ani is scummy, but still supporting the Furc wagon) was a useful one as scum if both Furc and ani happened to be town, because if the wagon goes through (which was semi-likely, as Furc was rapidly digging his own hole at the time and gaining votes), he is well placed to attack the primary cause of the mislynch, thus a scum Friend would want the wagon to continue, but by only supporting the wagon indirectly and staying off of it himself, if the wagon fails to go through, he would be relatively safe from any fallout from that wagon. The dissonance comes in when his stances didn't make much sense from a town perspective, in my opinion. He thinks pressure on Furc was a good thing and wanted the wagon to continue, but was unwilling to participate in the wagon himself, and not only that, but he thought the primary pusher of the wagon was himself scum. His play doesn't make a lot of sense from town, but does make a lot of sense from scum.

You're missing what I said earlier, though. I said if I felt the wagon was going to lead to a lynch, I would try to stop it actively - I know I can't "prove" that necessarily but it's true nonetheless.

So the simple question is this: What has Beefster done that he would not do if he was town? Even if someone makes the argument that his statements are not a legitimate means of contribution, that is largely irrelevant because Beefster himself MUST think that what he is posting holds weight even IF he is scum or he would not have posted it in the first place.

Well, for one, if he was town, maybe he would try to formulate arguments and opinions of his own instead of sheeping on the general mindset of the town. You're acting like scum can never say things that show laziness or disinterest in the game, which is what he did, essentially.

[Friend]

Does anyone else see some backpedaling going on here?

No..not particularly.

[Friend]

OH YEAH ANI CAUSE EVERYONE WHO VOTES YOU IS SCUM RITE

Wraith, why do you feel Beefster is town?

[Friend]

Furcolow = VI

ani =/= VI

HUGE difference there. That's not exactly what Furc's doing either, by the way.

[Friend]

Or... he doesn't think it's a good lynch? Why does every time someone opposes a lynch have to be scum-driven? Should all townies mindlessly bandwagon based off of what one or two people say?

I was going to make an EBWOP to this effect, but I didn't feel like it. Plum asked me for the SCUM MOTIVATION behind defending Beefster. So, I was assuming that Socrates was scum in that response, which I'm not saying is true.

@Ani:

Furcolow = VI

ani =/= VI

HUGE difference there.

He's also not just saying "here's scum: x, y, z," with those players happening to be the ones who suspected him. He's using reasons, however poor as they may be (and they are quite poor) to "prove" why players x, y, and z are scum.

[Friend]

Ani, read the fucking thread or shut up, please. I've explained my position on the Furc wagon many times and that's not my stance on it ATM. You're sheeping, skimming, tunneling, suggesting policy lynches...it's all scummy to me.

vote: animorpherv1

Beefster is still suspicious.

[Friend]

Geez, 8 pages. I am disliking ani's push for furclowe on policy. Seems forced to me.

unvote, vote animorpherv1

By the way, this gave mothrax smoke. Any connections to ani's?

[Friend]

I think you're probably right, I didn't even think about that. Those players are...sottyrulez and who? Maybe the smoke is scummy reads and the light is town reads from the players? Just a thought, it's probably not good to speculate anyways.

[Friend]

why in every game am I surrounded by idiots?

*cough* I see no response to my accusation. I am not an idiot, I know I'm not an idiot, and I take offense to that.

[Friend]

I know, ani, but I've clarified my stance on that multiple times.

Not sure if ani's AtE here is scummy or not. However, classifying VI's as scum is certainly scummy.

[Friend]

Yeah, VIs do suck, but they can be town too. Lynching them on policy is not right.

I've decided that ani's caps lock rage is giving me a towntell, somewhat.

unvote, vote: mothrax

I'm following the smoke!

[Friend]

So you criticize AtE but then use it yourself? Hypocrisy is great too.

[Friend]

[Friend]

Fate is by no means a VI. This is just kind of how he rolls. Complete null read ATM.

[Friend]

I've read games, man. Contrary to what you think, I have seen you flip, and I know how you generally play. I'm not defending your meta, I'm saying your CAPS LOCK POSTING and laziness is a nulltell and you're not a VI.

[Friend]

Oh no I went to breakfast! My god I must be scum!

Gears of War Mafia. My brother was in that game.

@Iece: What about said post convinced you of my scumminess?

[Friend]

That's just honestly not true.

Events of the day:

1. Wake up
2. Walk dogs
3. Go on MS
4. Post a couple things
5. Go to breakfast
6. Come back and see that you think I'm somehow still on the computer, which is honestly ridiculous.

PS you can PM MeMe about the brother thing. I talked to her when I registered. Deer/Karma is my brother (they're alts ooh).

[Friend]

Wait what are you talking about, one minute?

I posted 257 and I left. That's it. I didn't stick around.

WHAT A COINCIDENCE.

Your entire argument is based on me leaving my house at a certain time in REAL LIFE and calling you "not a VI." Then you yell at me and the town to try and get me lynched for completely BULLSHIT reasons.

Yeah, Karma was scum, but so what. I'm not Karma.

[Friend]

I think that means I'm right.

[Friend]

Socrates, what do you think about Fate's bogus "timing" argument?

[Friend]

But his case only consists of one point as far as I can tell and I've clarified said point multiple times.

[Friend]

So let me get this straight, I am scum because I called a player out for pushing a policy lynch on D1, which is something that is scummy, and for calling someone out on AtE? Really? Awesome craplogic guys.

Oh I don't think I ever responded to this. That's not why you're scum. You're scum because you came in 8 pages in to the game and your post was "OMG ani policy lynch vote: ani" without anything else behind it. Also for saying AtE is scummy and using it yourself.

Mothrax is scum guys.

[Friend]

This game is turning out to be way more frustrating than expected.

Socrates, thoughts on mothrax? He's been hypocritical, active-lurky, and a whole lot scummier than I feel I have been.

I understand your point about Fate but he's

not

an unfamiliar character as I said earlier. He's getting on my nerves cause he's tunneling and rude and making up stuff about me being/not being online, but I can see how it could come from both Fate-town and Fate-scum.

[Friend]

Furcolow...

[Friend]

I'm starting to find Wraith pretty scummy at this point actually. He's asked why there's a Friend wagon so many times, it feels like soft distancing from the wagon without putting his whole effort into diffusing it; so when I flip town he can gain "town cred."

Furcolow is really town to me at this point.

Why isn't anyone else voting mothrax?

[Friend]

I didn't defend Fate via meta. I gave him a null read via meta.

Maybe AtE was the wrong term, but it's still the same thing ani did (getting frustrated and venting).

[Friend]

I don't think what you did was scummy. Mothrax did, and them he got frustrated and vented about the case on him.

[Friend]

Yeah, whatever I can't defend myself against the almighty Fate that you all worship so. I'm just a VT, lynche am find scum from there. AGar is probably one. Wraith too. Then mothrax.

[Friend]

vote: Wraith

[Friend]

No I don't but I think it'll help once I flip town. I'm not good with defenses, especially against abrasive people such as yourself. If my lynch is what it takes to go on and lynch scum D2 onwards so be it.

[Friend]

Wraith tried to pull the same thing I did.

[Friend]

I know what I did. Wraith did it too but much more forced and poorly.

[Friend]

Resigned myself to my impending lynch.

[Friend]

You could call it that I guess.

[Friend]

Wraith's play as of late does not sit well with me... as has been pointed out by others.
Also, I could easily see him using a policy I use when playing which is: regardless of what you are asked, never lie when confronted with an obvbait question.... i.e. if you are scum, and someone just flat out asks if you are scum, don't deny it, just don't verify it either. When fate asked him if he was town, he didn't say yes, just "why are you asking.

Unvote, Vote: Wraith

Obvbus

[Friend]

Mothrax, are you scum?

[Friend]

Wow, the last few to join the wagon on me are extremely scummy votes. Any reason beyond "he's totally scum?" If you're going to lynch me anyways, state your reasons, if you're town. Otherwise you're letting the scum slip right in and my town flip will be for nothing.

Oh yeah there was no wagon on you at this point rite

[Friend]

unvote, vote: vezokpiraka

Could just be a huge VI, though his play is scummy even for a VI.

[Friend]

I can't decide between wraith and vezo.

[Friend]

Who are the scumpartners currently on your wagon. Here's a list.

SocioPath, Iecerint, Fate, Socrates, mothrax

[Friend]

I didn't say they were your scumpartners. You said they were vezo's buddies.

[Friend]

After that votecount, I'm a whoooole lot more comfortable being with the people on the Wraith wagon than the vezo wagon.

unvote, vote: Wraith

[Friend]

Thank god someone finallly did that.

[Friend]

vote: mothrax

He's still scummy as all hell

[Friend]

what the fuck
i said wraith is town
bandwagon me when i was right? he was green dumbasses

[Friend]

You know, that's not a bad idea.

unvote, vote: !!!!!!!!!!

Maybe it'll give us some good stuff about the mechanic.

[Friend]

Oh okay.

unvote, vote: mothrax

[Friend]

AGar 0 | ani 0 | Me= 0 | Friend 0 | Furc 0 | Iece 0 | Locke 0 | mothrax 0 | pacman 0 | Plum 4 PROD1 0 | Seb 6 PROD1 0 | Socio 1 | Socrates 0 | vezo 1 | zwet 0

You mean this?

[Friend]

-_-

[Friend]

Plum and Seb have been lurking. They're the ones with the biggest numbers.

[Friend]

Explain.

[Friend]

Oh my Explain was at pacman btw

[Friend]

Furcolow is probably town as much as I hate to say it.

[Friend]

Zwet, can you explain your colors?

[Friend]

AGar 1 | ani 1 | Me= 0 | Friend 0 | Furc 0 | Iece 0 | Locke 1 | mothrax 1 | pacman 0 | Plum 0 PROD1 1 | Seb -- | Socio 0 | Socrates 1 | vezo 0 | zwet 0

That's more votecount numbers.

MORE MOTHRAX VOTES ARE NEEDED PEOPLE. DID YOU FUCKING READ THAT LAST POST OF HIS?

[Friend]

YOU KNOW SAYING "THERE'S NO CASE ON ME" WHEN THERE IS ONE IS A SCUMTELL RITE

[Friend]

scummy players: mothrax

[Friend]

I don't feel like conforming to your shit especially when I'm not so sure of your townieness.

[Friend]

I agree with what the Locke said about Me=Weird.

[Friend]

unvote, vote: Me=Weird

This wagon is a good one. Let's do it.

[Friend]

WHY ME?!?!?!?

[Friend]

Guys can we just go ahead and fucking lynch M=W please

[Friend]

furc just stop talking please. your vote on M=W is good but other than that...yeah.

[Friend]

That's not why I didn't fulfill plums request, Soc.

[Friend]

especially =/= because

[Friend]

It's not pedantry. It's more like "I don't want to do what you say because I feel it's not going to be very helpful. Another reason I don't want to do it is because I'm not sure you're town and don't like your attitude towards leading the town around."

[Friend]

Yeah, whatever Soc.

M=W is scummy cause he's pressing for VItown lynches. AKA "easy targets."

[Friend]

MY AGENDA ZOMG

Okay vezo I'm null on. But furc is town I think.

[Friend]

M=W might be scum.

[Friend]

M=W is a better wagon than pacman IMO.

[Friend]

@Soc: Rebuttal*

[Friend]

Mothrax is oh so scummy. If only, if only you guys would wagon him with me.

[Friend]

CKD is still probscum.

[Friend]

Seb's play.

[Friend]

Sebguer.

[Friend]

CKD replaced Sebguer.

[Friend]

You can't put two and two together?

[Friend]

I like watching frustrated-zwet.

[Friend]

Sebguer's play was scummy. Just because a replacement comes in and acts less scummy doesn't change that.

[Friend]

Um, seriously? Have you read his ISO?

[Friend]

You name a top 3 scum, to vote someone outside the top 3. Why are you voting me then?

This feels scummy to me. It shows that pacman wasn't reallly paying attention to the thread and tries to invalidate Soc's vote.

unvote, vote: Pacman

[Friend]

It was more the questioning of the vote. It felt like an exaggerated "WHY ME?!?" when the answer was right there in front of him.

[Friend]

It seemed to me he was looking for an excuse to question the votes on him.

[Friend]

Furc is so obviously town.

[Friend]

It's just the way he's approaching the game. Did you read the scum meta? Completely and totally different. WAY less attempted scumhunting, way less effort put in. The effort he's putting in is misguided and ultimately reads as scummy, but the fact that he is putting in said effort gives me a town read.

[Friend]

Fur's not smart enough to do that, mothrax.

[Friend]

We don't know anything about the mechanics. Sometimes, smoke or light gets put over people's posts. We're not sure why or how.

Main suspects:

Me throughout much of D1
Furc throughout the whole game, I think he's town though
mothrax
Pacman
vezok, but much of that is due to his VI-ness, still null on him personally

[Friend]

Both are incredibly, uberifically scummy. I'm game with either lynch, honest to god.

You know, reading vezo in ISO he's looking a whole lot more like VI-scum than VI-town to me. I would also be down for either lynch, although mothrax is the better one IMO.

unvote, vote: mothrax

[Friend]

Socrates brought up some good points about Seb's scumminess somewhere. I liked them.

[Friend]

Guys I was reading our friend mothrax in ISO and I found this...

Dear Friend: You are not my friend. Please learn to read.
I find it interesting that I can't really see a case on me...
agar's:terriworse,

obvscum.

and so it goes for the people voting me.
Please be a dear and MAKE A FUCKING CASE!
I don't give a shit if it is against me, it would still be better than "

OMG GUYS HE IS SO OBVSCUM

, LETS GET HIM!" (insert following like a gaggle of schoolgirls.)

More hypocrisy! That's scummy!

You call AGar's case terribad and proceed to call him obvscum without giving ANY REASONING WHATSOEVER and then get pissed and call the people voting you scummy for the same thing you did yourself.

Anyways, if you call someone obvscum, you better have a vote on them or be pressing for their lynch. I don't see any of that.

Why? Because I refuse to let someone pull wool over my eyes? Townread =/= town and I am always suspicous of everyone. Also, I would not be as suspicious of you if you would get off your bum and do your own voting, instead of whatever plum wants you to do. Yeah townplum is awesome, but scumplum could have you eating out of your hands.

Look, this is stupid. "PLUM MAY BE SCUM AGAR!!!! STOP!!!!"
If AGar trusts Plum enough to want to vote with her, etc. then that's his choice, especially when you provide no solid evidence as to why he shouldn't be. I'm not saying Plum is blatantly town (I'm neutral leaning town on her for the time being) but you calling AGar out for this is scummy to me.

Can we please get more mothrax votes?

Anyways, here:

my PR was removed by circumstances unbeknownst to me. I am forbidden to claim until the mod tells me I can, and I can tell you that I am not the physical manifestation of anything (which narrows it down a lot, obviously)

World around zwet gets darker.

Do you honestly believe I am mafia, pacman? If so, why; and if not, why are you voting me?

Yes I do think you're mafia.
You're just swinging around votes w/o reasoning, jumping into the best wagon when the time comes. Your votes on M=W and mothrax have very little backing behind them, then you vote on me with no reasoning, just trying to push a quickwagon while I was gone. That vote was very scummy, and the other votes show you as wagon-hopper (is that the right term?)
This, and some reasoning I game on D1 (I'm too lazy to go for it but meh) are the backing on my vote.

Pacman glows.

well shit, if you go by a quick meta, it appears that Vezo's play is indeed town..

as scum, he did not vote as much (could only find one game) and appeared to be reserved getting involved with wagons. As town, or even a town power role, he tends to vote hop....adding more content if he is a power role then a vanilla...going to look a little more closely..and reread him in this game. My gut says he is scum, but this meta does say otherwise...

not going to vote quite yet....also want to look over friend and moth again....should be voting today or tomorrow.

CKD glows.

Higher powers seem to think Furc is scum, vezo is town. At least that's what I've gleaned.

[Friend]

Can we get some more mothrax votes? The proof is there.

[Friend]

Did you bring this up in an earlier post of yours when AGar originally brought it up?

[Friend]

I never noticed AGar bringing it up, by the way.

[Friend]

Mothrax - I've outlined the case, but trying to use AtE against one player in his case, then using it and saying he isn't scummy; inappropriately identifying the underlying cause of a policy lynch as well as ignoring a meta that has been repeatedly brought up; Contradicting something he said in an earlier post; and defending attacks with "there is no case on me".

Oh and HE DID OUTLINE A CASE ON YOU so maybe you should stop with the "THERE'S NO CASE" bullshit and start getting real.

[Friend]

Okay, maybe you didn't outright say "THERE ISN'T A CASE" but you blatantly ignored the case he made on you, it's been 5 days.

I disagree with the contradiction point, yes I say a few different things, I had more time to read and collect my thoughts.

I don't understand this. Can you clarify/elaborate?

[Friend]

Still slightly confused, but from what I can gain from your answer it's still unsatisfactory. Changing your mind this late, once people start calling you out on it is sketchy.

Okay, maybe you didn't outright say "THERE ISN'T A CASE" but you blatantly ignored the case he made on you, it's been 5 days.

I like how you ignored my post about you ignoring the case.

[Friend]

[Friend]

The two posts he points were from early d1 and d2. I changed my mind on the way I read the part of the game that was in reply to. I called my own post AtE earlier, but now that I reread and removed myself from it, I don't think it is. reading it as if I weren't the one who posted it changed my mind about the whole situation.

THIS is your response?

THIS?

THIS.

You've got to be kidding.

LynchHimPls.

[Friend]

It's not "just flavor," CKD. I got light from speculation something along those lines earlier (smoke = scumminess, light = townieness) indicating to me that something might be right about that.

[Friend]

or someone thinks your a right about it...someone not being the mod....or maybe scum, leading you astray....or maybe light and smoke mean something else entirely.

or maybe it IS just flavor.

....but you think it is a good move to base assumptions and votes on it right, with little to no knowledge on the subject when there is so much more to go on. not a protown move. you really want us to believe that you think the mod would give away alignments in this way?...really?

It's not the mod. It's our mystery players, I'm pretty sure. The !!!!!!!!!'s.

And I don't think they can be scum, because the mod said they're untargetable/unlynchable. Seems a little broken if they're scum, no?

[Friend]

I don't, but the mod has said they are unlynchable and untargetable. Unlynchable and untargetable scum = instawin.

[Friend]

I am scumhunting. I think mothrax is scummy for his play, not because the gods told me to. It's not like all I've been doing is smoke/light speculation.

[Friend]

What about that post is scummy, Furc? What makes it scummier than, say, anything mothrax has done?

[Friend]

How in the world has pacman been active lurking?

[Friend]

pacman (L-4) ~ Plum, Socrates, vezokpiraka, SocioPath

Give 'em to me.

[Friend]

You can't say "Pacman has scum on his wagon" and then not name names.

[Friend]

The way you've been pressuring pacman?

[Friend]

I was talking to zwet, but whatever.

Mothrax needs to go before vezo. I wouldn't mind seeing vezo eat some rope, though.

[Friend]

Yeah, me too. This game needs a flip.

[Friend]

Furcolow (L-5) ~ mothrax, pacman, Chronopie
Me=Weird (L-7) ~ Locke Lamora
Plum (L-7) ~ zwetschenwasser

These people need to pick a wagon, preferably mothrax's.

[Friend]

Vezo's meta definitely does not clear him, like I feel it kind of does in Furc's case. I can provide scum meta for vezo where he plays somewhat similarly to this game.

[Friend]

Envoy of good? What kind of a name is that for a tracker? An envoy is a messenger, an agent; not someone who tracks. I don't see how the name fits with the role.

Tracker is a really easy and good scum fakeclaim and I'm not backing down from mothrax because of the claim. He's still scum, I'm pretty sure, and Socrates' latest posts make it even more apparent.

[Friend]

Also, Plum is right - there is not a vote ability.

[Friend]

This wagon better not die.

[Friend]

Mothrax, you don't get it, do you?

If Socrates is wrong, he'll have some explaining to do tomorrow, and probably will lead to his (scum) lynch. You should be happy about that if you're truly who you say you are.

But you're not who you say you are, are you?

[Friend]

Hammer needs to be dropped.

[Friend]

The best thing we can do right now is all shut up,

don't

talk about anyone else, and speedlynch mothrax ASAP.

Thank you Plum. This is completely accurate.

Pacman, please shut the hell up. This isn't mod-WIFOM or whatever you say it is (don't understand how you got that either)

[Friend]

Furc is pretty definitely VI-town IMO. Vezo is not. Vezo is very possibly VI-scum. But...

vote: pacman

For the defense of mothrax and for this:

This whole interaction is IMO compatible with vezo-Furc scumteam trying to get each other bussed.
So be it.

This is very opportunistic and picking the two easiest mislynch targets. I have a feeling our wagon on him yesterday wasn't a bad idea.

I'd be down for a massclaim too, honestly. I have a feeling scum got fakeclaim names (envoy of good? maybe he came up with that himself, but...) but not roles. Envoy of good was so obviously not a tracker - it should be interesting to see the claims with the names.

[Friend]

unvote, vote: vezokpiraka

This wagon is a good one.

[Friend]

VIs can be scum, furc.

AGar is probtown mostly for the mothrax situation.

[Friend]

unvote, vote: pacman

Interesting, Soc. I'll trust you for now but this needs to be explained at some point.

[Friend]

pacman, maybe he has secret role-related reasons. Ever thought of that?

[Friend]

Locke, I've explained. We can't target or lynch them. If they are scum, that seems slightly broken, no?

[Friend]

unvote, vote: Locke Lamora

I too am up for a wagon. M=W would also be suitable.

[Friend]

Massclaim is good.

I think Iecerint is scum.

[Friend]

No. Furcolow is town.

vote: Me=Weird

Replaced a scummy player and is scummy himself.

[Friend]

Have you read the thread? He's a VI but he's town.

[Friend]

Not inherently, but the way you've been presenting it is.

[Friend]

The way you voted mothrax was also very scummy. You basically paid no attention to him when the wagon was building, instead focusing on VI-type easy targets like furc and vezo, and then when it grew easy to jump on, you bussed with an IIoA filled "case."

[Friend]

Do I think I've done anything scummy? Sure. A few PR softclaims, claiming townie, wishy-washy voting, but these are all typical town behaviors from me.

Exactly my point. Furc is VItown via meta reads.

[Friend]

Well, I guess that means vezo's more likely town, but not definitely.

Vote: Furcolow

I've already stated some reasons, but he's now used flavor stuff that we don't know about as a case, hammered LL without a claim when he viewed LL as either scum or a

Power role.

Imagine if he'd been right about the PR. We'd be down 2 PR's, only having a idea about one target of one of them. Bad.

I'm thinking there's either 3 or 4 scum left, or 3 and a SK/other 3d party role.

Stuff like this is scummy. Hammering without a claim is well within Furc's meta as town, and just because he's not too bright doesn't make him scum. The argument you're presenting is the same one that's been gone over time and time again, but he's VI-town. That's just the way it is.

The rest of your questions are not worthy of a proper answer. How is it IIoA? Seriously?

[Friend]

Town meta = ongoing game(s)
Scum meta = furc posted it earlier in the thread bro

[Friend]

^Disagree

[Friend]

Furcolow's meta seriously cannot be changed. We're talking about furc here. He has also played more than a few games.

[Friend]

No.

Furc.

Is.

Town.

Get that through your minds.

[Friend]

AGar, really? I'm not scumhunting? I insisted on mothrax-scum for a long damn time and I've been saying M=W is scum for a while now too.

Anyways, check this out: Furc town meta

HE IS ACTING EXACTLY THE SAME. EXACTLY THE MOTHERFREAKING SAME.

HE IS NOT SMART ENOUGH TO DELIBERATELY CHANGE HIS META.

THEREFORE, HE IS FUCKING TOWN. THERE SHOULD BE NO MORE CASES ON FURC.

[Friend]

No, M=W + AGar, Furc is town and stop telling me to shut up. Your cases are wrong.

[Friend]

Nope, he didn't act the same way. He acted way differently.

I think vezo is scum.

unvote, vote: vezokpiraka

[Friend]

Heh, vezo telling people to do something is very ironic. You're parroting AGar's shitty attacks on me in a hypocritically scummy way.

[Friend]

M=W, I'm beginning to get the feeling you're not very bright.

[Friend]

Heh.

Either you're scum or you're stupid. One of the two.

[Friend]

How come?

[Friend]

What have I done to give you the impression that I'm an idiot?

[Friend]

So I vote vezo for his scummy play.

You say "LOL FRIEND YOU'RE JUST VOTING HIM CUZ HE DISAGREES WITH YOU"

Thus, you're either scum misrepping me or you're stupid.

[Friend]

It's pretty obvious why your play is scummy, isn't it?

[Friend]

You have not done ANY town things.

[Friend]

What questions?

[Friend]

People keep acting like I'm not posting content. I don't know where you're getting that.

[Friend]

Nope, he didn't act the same way. He acted way differently.

I think vezo is scum.

unvote, vote: vezokpiraka

My light post.

When I called mothrax scum, I got light too. This could mean something.

[Friend]

I think my light was cause I called vezo scum. Which he is.

[Friend]

Nope, he didn't act the same way. He acted way differently.

I think vezo is scum.

unvote, vote: vezokpiraka

My light post.

When I called mothrax scum, I got light too. This could mean something.

So this doesn't mean something? Cause now I'm smoking.

[Friend]

Is your question why is Furc town besides meta? I don't know. He's not. But when he acts this way in every game in which he's town, and acts in a totally different way when he's scum, I think he's town. You're obviously not going to listen to me, but the point remains.

[Friend]

Did Soc call vezo town due to some trackage? I don't recall.

[Friend]

Yeah, I think that's why.

Okay, if vezo is more than likely town,

unvote, vote: Me=Weird

[Friend]

Hi Haylen!

M=W, your theory is wrong. There is a way to tell whether furc is scum - I've read his scum meta and he's provided at least one example of it. He's very, very readable, and in this game, he's town.

Anyways, saying stupid things like "I'm starting to think you're scum, Friend" based on NOTHING except me saying furc is town is useless and scummy. You need the noose.

[Friend]

AGar, Haylen is a bad lynch, due to Soc. I'm fairly sure he got a null track.

[Friend]

Guys.

I just got something important.

I received a message, presumably from either a player or one of the "holy ones." Here's what it contained:

bothhaveglow&smoke

otherisscum

vezlie-d2ability

idme/wexplain-GGSCHB

batery->rolepoints

Does anybody know what the GGSCHB means? We need to find out who these players are, because one of them is scum.

This is big.

[Friend]

18) !!!!!!!!
19) !!!!!!!!!!

probably has the right amount of letters

CKD: This morning at 2 AM.

[Friend]

It was written in that format...

My interpretation:

bothhaveglow&smoke: Both players have the glow and smoke ability. Duh.

otherisscum: The other one of the !!!!!s (not the one that sent this to me) is scum.

vezlie-d2ability: Vezo/Haylen had an ability used on D2. Maybe confirming them as town. Some info might be nice, Haylen.

idme/wexplain-GGSCHB: If we can find out who they are, they explain the mechanic, etc. No clue what the GGSCHB means.

batery->rolepoints: When the remaining battery power gets "converted," it goes to these two players and presumably helps them out somehow.

Anyways. How are we gonna find these guys?

PEDIT: CKD, I don't know why I got it either. None of it makes a whole lot of sense.

[Friend]

18) !!!!!!!! <--- 8 letters
19) !!!!!!!!!! <--- 10 letters

Any famous/notorious players with 8/10 letters in their names?

the sottyrulez hydra, who asked to /in for the game, has 10 letters. I couldn't find another person in the sign-up thread that wasn't in the playerlist, though...argh.

Holy Powers: Is one of you sottyrulez?

[Friend]

Good guess. Maybe he replaced one of the mystery players?

Holy Powers: Is one of you gammagooey?

[Friend]

GGSCHB...

SC = StrangerCoug? Doesn't work with letters, though.

HB I have NO idea.

[Friend]

I didn't post it, but the first line said "Post2thread." I figured that meant it was okay.

unvote, vote: Haylen

I believe Plum. I misinterpreted the line.

[Friend]

Iecerint, that message was so bizarrely worded and contained so much weird info that I would have to have a wild, wild imagination to come up with it. And even if I did, what is it getting me? A mislynch out of Haylen? Come on. The fact that you're doubting me here is ehhhhh.

[Friend]

I am not a PR. I am one of the Righteous - I believe I said that earlier?

[Friend]

Like I said, the message said post2thread. I wanted to share it.

Anyways, I guess I believe haylen? Vezlie = Vezo + Haylie when I first read it. Interesting stuff, though: this game just got more interesting.

unvote, vote: Iecerint

- the way he's been handling this has been sketchy.

[Friend]

I'm willing to let haylen use her one-shot track for the good of the town. Vez "lying" about his N2 ability doesn't even make sense.

[Friend]

unvote vote: M=W

don't know why I got off that wagon.

[Friend]

Okay, I got glow for asking if the !!!!!s were sottyrulez and/or Gammagooey.

But nothing more.

Siiigh.

How do we officially "ID" them?

[Friend]

M=W, because I had forgotten how scummy you were. I was just going on what I saw.

[Friend]

Why is the VC 887 important? Why did VezoHaylen get his/her ability then?

Can you shed any light on this, Haylen?

[Friend]

Can we just lynch M=W please?