The Mafia with the Hydras - Game Over!

[Greymarble]

/confirm

Working on that entire 'having an avatar' thing.

[Greymarble]

/confirm
Avatar pending

[Greymarble]

Vote: BeaverWeasel

Obvious attempts to obfuscate posting style are obvious. Why are you so nervous about people reading you?

[Greymarble]

My dearest GreyMarble:

This is simply to exacerbate the freedoms that come with being unknown. We have chosen to remain anonymous in order to obfuscate any meta reads the majority may think they have on us. As a whole we do not value meta reads and so we will not be using them. We hope that you will return the favor by not worrying about our true identity and worrying about who might be scum.

As for my lovely partner's vote I couldn't be more in agreement. The pathetric hydra started with alt-speculation, in which they called themselves a newb. I know this not to be true. Post 33 is also disconcerting at the moment since I am not sure what was meant by it.

Oh loquacious Weasel, the issue is not that you have not revealed the identities of your heads. It is that you have chosen to post in a positively antedeluvian manner and while verbose, said verbage serves to obfuscate more than reveal.

Post 33 was a positive step towards communicating with us freely. Man, unless you have like the most obvious posting style on the planet, we're not going to guess who is who when there's like two of you back there. I just want some sign that I'll be able to read you THIS game.

P.S. Meta is shit. But not being able to read you because you make posts next to the 'big book of SAT vocab words' is shit too.

[Greymarble]

hmmm.. this one (the head that is speaking now) seen mafia with hydra games (one's with about one or two hydra's --- this one thinks he saw a hydra game like this game where all was hydras) where the hydra signed their posts.

This one gets the part where it's be a headache keep track of who said what because on signing but aren't there positives to signing as well?

No.

That post wasn't made by kcdaspot, the others were.

Look, you signed it, problem solved.

[Greymarble]

@ Unicorn Brethren
Two things:
1) Your excuse is fail. There is no way we are going to allow your many heads to change what is a scumtell. If you contradict yourself, you are scummy.
2) You essentially contradicted yourself by saying we are scummy for not actually voting you and by saying that "our OMGUS was showing". If we're not voting you, it's not OMGUS.
With that said,

unvote vote: Unicorn Brethren

You're shitting me, right?

I haven't gotten Llamarble's input, but there's no way I'm voting Ubby when this is here.

Vote: DaSpotthatkillsu

Sorry Reck, as tempting as that offer was...

[Greymarble]

@ Unicorn Brethren
Two things:
1) Your excuse is fail. There is no way we are going to allow your many heads to change what is a scumtell. If you contradict yourself, you are scummy.
2) You essentially contradicted yourself by saying we are scummy for not actually voting you and by saying that "our OMGUS was showing". If we're not voting you, it's not OMGUS.
With that said,

unvote vote: Unicorn Brethren

Alright, lemme go over this really slowly.

1) Contradicting yourself isn't scummy. It means you changed your mind. Living in an enormous tunnel where no opinion or outside input effects any one of your reads and you launch bravely forward ignorning every single thing that happens like a forum Javert is at best useless and at worst retarded. Changing your mind with no reasoning is scummy, but overall this point was raw stupid.

2) The logic in this point actually makes my brain hurt.

3) I'm Captain Kirk. Mr. Spock does all the logic and shit, I rage and seduce the ladies.

[Greymarble]

Great, we've got 26 or more players and there's turbolurking.

Vote:Final Destination

They're scum.

Discuss.

[Greymarble]

Before someone takes that the wrong way: This vote is entirely serious.

[Greymarble]

Oh I'm not super worried I'm wrong. AGM and Fate both like to play the same sort of town game. It's aggressive, pressuring, with some strong patterns of attack.

Fate likes to play a conservative scumgame with a plan and chain lynches in the order he wants them to go, with partners planned as 'bus' or 'save' for long term. AGM, as far as I can tell, plays a reactionary scumgame where he doesn't plan long-term, and reacts to things he finds scummy, while bussing partners only as needed or to gain credit.

Why would AGM and Fate sign up together? Similar town playstyle that they want to execute.

Why would AGM and Fate gently prod at BeaverWeasel and UnicornBretheren (both good lynches, but I mean talk about obvious targets) and lurk? Different scumstyles they are disagreeing over, and they generally want to play it by ear.

They're scum.

[Greymarble]

Unfortunately this damn theory makes UB town, which I don't like, but Fate would bus that disaster so fast we'd find body parts in another country.

[Greymarble]

Because you're a disaster on wheels?

[Greymarble]

Haha, when have I ever given too many shits about meta Fate or AGM? I need motives, not 'perfectly consistent behavior that never changes.' You're just a pain in the ass to read and I was bored with the GummyBear/Pathetric drama that was getting us shit all.

That case was horrible. I can't help but wondering if that wagon hit L-1 with nothing but town on board because they wanted the damn reads. Would love a general explanation though, as the wagon was pure shit.

Unicorn is probably town, I declare it so and it hurts me.

Not fond of the Dana wagon, it occurs to me that kcdaspot is always scummy as hell, although he does flip scum, but I have reasons to believe that he wouldn't be acting like this as scum (which are meta flavored and kinda bad) but they're enough to make me decide he's town.

Vote: Pathetric

Gummy bear looks like an easy mislynch, and that was such a nice little way of saying "oh, I could see hopping to that wagon if it gains momentum, but I just don't trust it..."

The faster the lurkers start posting, the less likely I am to think they're scum. At least one of ya is.

PEDIT: kcdaspot, you annoy me.

[Greymarble]

Although that was a TERRIFIC backpedal off our wagon Grey, AGM and I agree that it is unlikely you would have pushed us so early as scum given BotW mafia and our reputations, and that it is indeed likely you were going for the reads.

We're working on Dana's post now.

Wait, what? I'd push you as scum because I'd love to mislynch you, and I will one of these days. You've now been warned, it's not proper fun if it's a total surprise.

But today I ain't scum, this ain't it, and I wouldn't do it with a case that's that poor this early in day 1 when you're trying something new. Nah, you're town. The style? It's just crazy enough to be your sense of humor - beat the hydras with scum play that's TOTALLY DIFFERENT from your town play, and laugh while doing it. I was curious. But AGM was straight pissed off townie there. Not faking anger, that combination of angry dissapointment is a winner.

I'll wait for Llamarble's input on Daspot, but my god that last post. I've lynched scum on half that before. kcdaspot... yargle.

[Greymarble]

The meta argument is fucking bullshit. That's for lazy players. Like VezokPiraka or something (hint: make him claim on day 1. If he epically botches it, he's scum).

A good player is going to change their playstyle to experiment with what works and what doesn't.

[Greymarble]

Uh, okay Frogito, then I have a little project for you.

Go. Construct a meta argument that Fate/AGM are scum this game. Make it convincing.

Mine's bullshit, that should help you out.

[Greymarble]

Dammit Fate, stop stealing my thunder. I had a mild town read on FES, but no, he went and posted that.

Vote: FES

Did you even read post #142? Y'know, right when you mentioned them not being aggressive and all?

Though I do kinda find the hydra arguing with itself in thread hysterical in the right context

[Greymarble]

Hydra discussions are ongoing. Interesting stuff may or may not occur.

[Greymarble]

Oh yeah, Time Out! It's advice for GummyBear. And GummyBear is town. I DGB it so.

Don't wallpost. Why? You miss stuff. Instead take the time and distill it into reads. Think about it logically. Hydra = good time to start doing this. Gut advises logic. Stream of consciousness tells you nothing. One plus one isn't always two, but that's a good start. Two things I think you missed:

Greymarble’s vote on FD in 127 concerns us quite a bit. I don’t like the lack of explanation at all. But then you explain without being prompted in 131, so nevermind. It’s null. (Though we don’t agree with your meta-case.)

+town points for calling it bullshit
-sanity points for missing the fact that I claimed it bullshit later in thread.

*thumbsup* We approve of the Fate / AGM hydra, in general. Playstyle, thoughts, all of the above. It’s a good change, you guys.

Fez 201 has one thing that stands out in particular to me: “[Fate’s] town style is hard to emulate [as scum.]” This is blatantly false; Fate yells like a crazy person regardless of alignment. As I said in 203, the playstyle change is null.

Town: FD

*headdesk*

He's town, but I hate this reasoning.

++ Awesome points for effort

Just prefer to see it go in a different direction. "I apologize for the length of the letter, for I had not the time to write a shorter one."

[Greymarble]

Yeah, the thing is I'm trying to be a good hydra and not have one of these in-thread arguments.

But my other head is MIA.

May just decide to laugh and place the vote that I've been discussing with him.

[Greymarble]

I give up.

Vote: Untrod Stranger

Llamarble will make the case and stuff, probably this afternoon. Or last weekend.

I've been pushing this one for nearly a week. No random town reads. No puzzle solving. Nothing except lamely trying to "lead" the town.

You're so OBVIOUS and you think you're "always scummy."

[Greymarble]

Our case against US:
He starts out slow, then jumps on FES and tunnels him. Scum routinely make this sort of move to avoid the D1 radar.
FES is also a soft target for voteparking compared to players like FD who routinely blast people who go after them. Scum usually pick soft targets.
After this start, their outlook (FES & his defenders are scummy) stays the same despite more information which should lead to new evaluations/perspectives on what's going on.
And they spend time complaining about how bad various bandwagons are, but they never mention any townreads or other notable analysis based on them.
This gave us a sense that they were jabbing around rather than figuring out the situation & evolving reads.

Their play is also overly hostile and abrasive. The indignation feels feigned rather than real.
Finally, the players voting for them aren't bad company.

[Greymarble]

I very much didn't think he was town when I voted, but I would have liked to have had some input after that "scumslip," since that was a really fucking town set of two posts. That being said, Unicorn Bretheran has already softclaimed disaster on wheels, so meh on lynching them right now. FD, how did you get a town read out of him? He was trying way too hard to spread suspicion around and wasn't labeling anyone town, and Tripod had flaked like hell rather than post his usual stuff in the thread (which I associate more with scum tripod, since I assume he knows he's horrifically bad at being town when he's town already).

Vote:Frogito Ergo Sum

FD has convinced me, and Llamarble hasn't posted anything useful in our hydra. Basically, we had 30 players in a game with less posts day 1 than any of my last few mini normals.

I'm tempted to just leave this to Llamarble for the next week. And... I will.

ICE lowered

[Greymarble]

Hi. The Unicorns are out for blood.

We will be happy with goring any of the following:

-DaSpotthatkillsu (<deadweight/scum)
-Greymarble (<scum)
-FinalDestination (<kickingscreamingweight)
-Mystery player (<obvscum)

The unicorns are out of brains.

Copper was fucking excellent posting, <3 whoever the hell makes up that hydra.

BTW, this hydra has a natural flow because all the posts stem from a single source

Derp

[Greymarble]

In case it didn't count from Grey's account:

Unvote

[Greymarble]

Prodded.
I read Danaspot a bit ago and think they're town. I'll do some more reading tonight.

-Llama

[Greymarble]

I have to figure out why Lord Fonzi reads as scum to me.

Be back in a bit.

Copper votes are right up the Bretheran's alley. You may consider that name nominated as soon as the thread unlocks

[Greymarble]

@Balam: Quick, who did Beaver Weasel hammer this game?

[Greymarble]

Preeety sure we've laid out our dislike of FES already. RTT

.

As for svt: it's the terribad hammer by beaverweasle that makes them a "must die" candidate.

This is in the air during the period of time that svt catches up and makes posts, as their play may or may not make up for the scummy play of their predecessor. The GB hydra has been practically inactive in this game, and it's active lurking. They've posted elsewhere, they have the luxury of being able to talk about the game 24/7, and yet their posting here is lackluster and rare. It feels as if they are deliberately avoiding the thread rather than just being too busy to post.

Eh? UntrodStranger. I fail to see the relevance of your comment.

Oh, you said beaverweasle not UB (the actual hammerers) hahahaha. God, I should pay more attention.

We didn't really discuss the hammer past a "That hammer was crap" esque comment from equinox.

My other head can lift this up if he wants to.

Vote: Balam

We ain't discussed it. But this don't pass.

[Greymarble]

Balam: Vote. Them. Then. It's like you're willing to do anything to look like you're pressuring them, except the one thing that will actually create pressure on them to either get their act together or ask for replacement.

Switch from coaching to bussing.

It's safer at this juncture.

[Greymarble]

(AGar)

Ok, this is a straight up call-out on Gummybear. It's been almost an entire week since your last post here. You're both in scumchat at similar times. You're hydra has posted elsewhere since then. You guys have the biggest convenience out of any account to co-ordinate reads for a post. I'm beginning to wonder if the lurking is because you can't fake them.

Get to it. Pronto.

SHIT WE JUST SCUMSLIPPED

DEFLECTOR SHIELDS AT MAXIMUM

[Greymarble]

"SIR THEY'RE POWERING UP THEIR PHASERS. IT LOOKS LIKE THEY DETECTED OUR CLOAKING FIELD!"

"DECLOAK! SET SHIELDS TO MAXIMUM! POWER UP THE DISRUPTOR ARRAYS!"

[Greymarble]

You're right about the line. It's not your fault that you pulled scum here. Happens to the best of us.

Anyway, you're saying that SVT should hang for... no. reason. at. all.

Meh, I can read RayFrost like an open book. Didn't lynch him in 45 minutes on day 2 because I fail to understand him. He saw a read he didn't understand and grabbed a reason out of midair.

Everything after that was backpeddling.

Ya may have just sunk your scum team. You and Fonzi conspired to kill 2/3rds of you rather nicely.

Fonzi:

First things first:

Unvote: Frogito Ergo Scum; Vote: Gummybear.

Also this head would like to request a Prod on Gummybear.

The Frogito Ergo Scum wagon strikes this head as a contrived day one wagon. Unfortunately for us, it happens to be day two, and this town has already had its silly lynch for the game. This head plays with CES and Shanba a good deal, which is why this hydra was for his lynch earlier. However now this hydra is divided on the issue of his alignment. This head in particular feels that the defense that Frogito Ergo Scum is employing is indicative of town in the cases of both CES and Shanba. Likely what is happening is that Shanba is seeing more air in that hydra, which is doubtless a good thing.

In Post 412 and 415 it strikes me that Balam and Gummybear are teaming up far too readily to attack YosFlavouredCake. The argument in its entirety fails to account for the fact that most of the people who have played with Ether can read her exceptionally easily, especially players such as Yosarian who have played with her extensively. This head thinks that it's a puerile argument to go after someone both for successfully finding town and for the proposition of townhunting in general. If you know that he is being at least moderately successful in his efforts, it ought to undermine your argument that townhunting is an unproductive pursuit. At any rate, this head finds both Yosarian and Cay to be town.

Final Destination needs to calm down fast. At first this hydra was inclined to agree, and my other head may or may not still believe that Final Destination is town, but this head will see any continued lunacy from Final Destination as a scum tell. From experience, one of the best ways to hide alignment is to froth at the mouth. Unless some reasonableness makes an appearance in his posts, this head does not intend to give him a free pass for meta reasons any longer. Also please just end the entirely unnecessary false dialogues.

Now why mention Balam? It just doesn't make any sense.

The earlier post you made?

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p2881327

Asking for a prod.

That's hardly saying "OMG THEY'RE SCUM."

Fuck, that's not worthy of comment. But Fonzi wants to find a reason to find you scummy. And hint where your vote should go. Oh and why would he do this? Yep!

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p2893225
Now, lets rewind a little, to one of Copper's earlier posts:

Interestingly, after claiming their heads to help explain their activity failure, it has been exclusively Equinox posting in the thread. The optimistic interpretation is that Equinox has found more time and is going back to being the "posting head." However, now that we know the identities of the involved players,

I’m curious as to why Rayfrost and AGar are not posting in thread

.

If there's one scum motto RF lives by, it's activity. And look! It's Frosty!

Can't do anything suspicious now, can we? Can't jump on a wagon right after our partners, can we?

Fonzi knows that in THIS crowd, that's worse than sheeping your partner blatantly. Buuuuttt, he committed himself to finding you scummy, now he has to push you over the vote thing. While being like "oh come on, snowman, don't do this to me!"

As I said a while back, "one of these days I'll find a scumteam that DOESN'T want to engage in random distancing from each other, then I'll have to actually try."

BORING

LYNCH TIME

LETS FIND #3

[Greymarble]

Dun worry, you can't possibly offend me by insulting me

[Greymarble]

I JUST lynched him. In a newbie game. Like 10 minutes ago (okay, a few days, BUT). And I can discuss it.

Fonzi:
Furthermore, we are somewhat confused by their 'liking our push toward gummybear' and off of FES, and yet they themselves stay on FES. If they think FES is the best lynch, then we can't see why they'd like us moving off, on the other hand if they think Gummy is scummier than FES, we can't see why they wouldn't have followed.


I can 'like' someone doing something and disagree with the focus (or not agree enough to move my vote). It's incredibly weak, and I'm not overly impressed.

I have a strong town read on spot, and Gummy is constantly VLA, it feels like you're picking on easy targets.

[Greymarble]

Long post sometime tomorrow. I promise.

This game is making me do way too much background research partially.

And partially I'm lazy. See: FD.

I swear, this was a much worse idea than I thought.

[Greymarble]

Ah good, SVT is town.

Pie - Scum motivation. Ether and Yosarian have played together so many times that they can read each other like books, according to what they said. This ain't a frame, as I've been sitting on that one since I saw the shot, and no one has even hinted at it. Ether is dead. That's a pile of scum motivation right there, and I don't think that 'masons' is what they were shooting for.

Wallposts incoming.

[Greymarble]

P.S. Spot is town

I have ongoing game related reasons, but I can share some of them thanks to RayFrost's game ending. Simply put, kcdaspot is far too nervous as scum. I was wondering whether it would just be the one game, but no. I screamed at him second post in the thread. He shut down. Put simply, he breaks under pressure. He's been under quite some pressure, and ain't breaking. Is this meta? Kinda. He's also doing things that simply lack scum motivation, and he's pushing people. My feeling is that given kcda's natural lurking tendancies, inexperience, and the fact he's twice screwed his scumteam over, he'd defer to dana as scum. Instead, he's quite publically grabbed the hydra back from dana several times.

He's also very self-righteous. He's just newbie town.

[Greymarble]

Now onto Equinox - that's the sort of stuff I like to see! Nice, solid, defense. You're scum, but you're going to make me work for it. And that's fun.

First, onto RayFrost on his meta, and lemme talk about that one for a sec. Four questions:

1) I called kcdaspot "OBVSCUM" in what ISO #?
2) The Jora and Fatso wagons were unviable because of who?
3) I buddied how many people who were not RayFrost in the thread? (followup: And I started doing it what ISO #?)
4) Who suggested that Neil, his strongest PR read, should "be careful?"

I may have screwed up my buddying a bit, but to be fair buddying is annoying enough when I'm scum, buddying scum when I'm town is a real trick (especially when you want to derail their wagon). Does it help having a town full of obvtown and good players like Neil to work with? HELLS YES. But don't blame my cop ability for that loss. But hey, being sore about that is a null tell.

So not false meta, and not "supplimenting my case" with it. I'm making RayFrost nervous. And he's funny when he's nervous.

-~=~--~=~--~=~--~=~--~=~--~=~--~=~--~=~--~=~--~=~--~=~--~=~--~=~--~=~--~=~-

But that's all an aside. The problem I have right now with Balam is pretty much as follows: complete total inconsistency, insincerity, overjustification, and the fact they got a scum role PM.

Lets start day 1:

Currently of the opinion that these people are town: Pathetric (As yos said, easy to read), FD (Fate is easy to read when you've been in a few games with him, and his posting here is sincere), and DSTKU (meta, not particularly strong of a read and we aren't in agreement within the hydra about this).

Neutral / Null reads: Untrod Stranger (Some good posting, but not enough), GummyBear (Not enough posts outside the Ether / SS debate to tell, and that left a slight edge of scum for me and edge of town for the rest of the hydra), and Reckamonic (Not enough posts).

Scum reads: YFC and FES. YFC's recent posting makes my read here less certain, but I really don't like the feeling I get whenever I read Yos + Ether interactions earlier in the thread. FES has overall not much in the way of content as I look through their postings. I don't approve of the FD vote, but that may just be due to differing reads. There's very little to look at that makes me have good vibes with a lot of commentary that essentially does null to the discussion. This read isn't as solid amongst the heads as it is on the YFC read.

So lets go over these people

DSTKU - "Mild read" that has since reversed.

US/UT - Tripod is THE classic mislynch of the century, IS is unpredictable and varies between obvtown and scummy as hells.
GummyBear - Quadz and SingerSigner are definitely easy targets

YFC - was under a lot of heat, may still be scum, raw easy target in any case.
FES - obviously under piles of heat, CES is know to threadshit.


Now, onto softer reason:

Speaking from a group perspective: We're in much more agreement regarding town reads than scum reads right now. There's some disagreement about YosFlavouredCayke, and I don't think I'll last very long in the QuickTopic once I've pulled this particular stunt (see below). AGar still likes having Frogito Ergo Sum's collective neck in a knot. I don't think RayFrost has changed his stance on YosFlavouredCayke since Green Shirt Thursday, but I haven't heard him say anything about them since. Personally, I'm undecided(!) on who's scum because I have yet to do the player-by-player analyses that I've been meaning to do since last week. I'll spend a few hours on those before I go poof for the week.

This stuff is interesting. It seems to reveal the internal logic of their hydra. Or does it?

No.

It doesn't. It's all a pack of fluffy nonsense. Here's goodposting:

AGar thinks they're town because of X,Y, and Z.
RayFrost thinks X is a nulltell, Y and Z are slightly townie, but N,P, and Q outweigh those.
I think Ray has a point, but it's not strong enough to move my vote there yet, as Q is rather weak.

In other words solid logical arguments that reveal disagreement. This is like "what I did on my summer vacation." It wastes words, time, and paragraphs, and is just laying the grounds for a votejump or position shift with no displayed in-thread logical reasoning.

Take this for instance:

I don't see a problem. I didn't move off Frogito Ergo Sum because the desire for Frogito Ergo Sum's blood in the QuickTopic was pretty high, and I trust AGar's and RayFrost's judgment; I assume neither AGar nor RayFrost moved off because they suspected Frogito Ergo Sum more than GummyBear.

Where are these reasons that FES is scum? Well, I dunno. Just RayFrost and AGar want blood, and you trust their judgment. Coolio, I don't trust you. So gimme some reasons. I accept hydra head disagreements, but SVT and Copper are both doing things right and posting ARGUMENTS.

You're reading me bedtime stories. And when pushed on the reasoning, it flaked. RayFrost thinks SVT is scum because of the hammer? Oh come on. RayFrost thought it was scummy not to have a reason to suspect svt and grabbed the first one that popped to mind. But it was factually untrue.

And therein lies the problem. If the real answer was "Equinox thinks that, I still say the spot is null" then he'd have said that. If the answer was "general low activity level, it's not a strong read" I'd have bought that. But that reason? That was "it's scummy not to have a good reason!"

Nooooooooooo.

Equinox is someone I instinctively like, but I just cannot ignore the facts of the matter - Balam has posted tons and tons and tons of NOTHING. Balam has added less content to the thread than Spot and UB.

Being one of those people who take forever to catch up in games, I don't consider it a scum tell, but it's still annoying nonetheless on this side of the fence. Anyway, post 522, it's... lacking. I'm surprised they came up with only that much after 9 pages. AGar thinks the post was awful. Equinox wants to wait and see what they say when they finally gather their thoughts together (but would like them to speed up).

The hydra consensus now is that... well, there is no consensus, really. AGar is running out of patience and wants to hop onto the GummyBear wagon. I'd rather wait until GummyBear's V/LA is over and see if they deliver the promised goods and then judge. RayFrost has bloodlust for Greymarble, and with Greymarble's newest post, I guess we're in for a treat.

As for me, I'm bothered that the Frogito Ergo Sum wagon has been sitting like this for a while. It's become a fixture. I want to attribute that to Frogito Ergo Sum's overall level of activity given that I do believe this wagon is made up of town and everyone has expressed a reason why they're on it, but something in the back of my mind tells me something's up. Will look into this.

Lemme summarize this:
SVT doesn't have much content and neither does their replacement
FES wagon is a little weird (like Copper wasn't saying that five pages ago)

Three paragraphs of FLUFF

THE ENTIRE ISO IS THIS. NOTHING BUT THIS.

Fluff, Fluff. Fluff. These long posts? All fluff.

I could summarize every solid point they made in the thread thusly:

1) People are lurking
2) YFC is spending more time finding town reads than scumreads
3) UB is weird because it reversed reads from midday until hammer
4) FES is scummy for pushing a metacase that was complete bullshit (and that I pulled the rug out from under)
5) BeaverWeasel is lurking worse than the other lurkers
6) kcdaspot's reasoning behind the defense of YFC is weak

That's the ONLY SALIENT POINTS you raised. Everything else has been "I like this." "I don't like that." "Agar thinks X, RayFrost thinks Y." "This hydra is coming to a consensus."

THAT'S IT? Lemme quote them again for our benefit:

1) People are lurking
2) YFC is spending more time finding town reads than scumreads
3) UB is weird because it reversed reads from midday until hammer
4) FES is scummy for pushing a metacase that was complete bullshit (and that I pulled the rug out from under)
5) BeaverWeasel is lurking worse than the other lurkers
6) kcdaspot's reasoning behind the defense of YFC is weak

All the other reasoning is hiding in this mysterious QT. So deep in the QT you haven't shared any little bit of it with us.


Yup. Suspicions confirmed. Prolific active lurking.

Want my blood RayFrost? Bring it. But better bring reasoning when you do, because it would be a brand new contribution for you guys to this thread.

[Greymarble]

I will now support a policy lynch unless UB cleans its act up and starts posting reads, reasons, and thoughts in an awful whole hurry.

[Greymarble]

Well equinox's point is that they can't discuss certain things in the quicktopic.

Despite a long discussion over this and the fact that the rule clearly and comprehensively allows QT quoting in limited segments

And even if it didn't, explaining the logic to us in the thread would be fine.

All you ever say is "meh thinks blah, meh2 thinks blahblah, so blah blah blah, yadda yadda."

I have information from my quicktopic. Llamarble thinks RayFrost is an empty headed animal food trough wiper, and farts in his general direction.

That is all.

(the above may not be entirely accurate)

PEDIT: FROSTY!

[Greymarble]

Well this is quite silly. RayFrost gets +10 misrep points. I was wrong about US/UT, yes. I fucked up. Not all my reads are perfect.

Not all of them are bad.

Hashing things out in the QT is fine. But what I wanted to see is what's getting hashed out in the QT. Here's a few examples:

My personal read is that YosFlavouredCayke is scum for, basically, stroking Pathetric; to me, it reads like grooming a potential ally, and town have no business doing that. AGar, on the other hand, feels that YosFlavouredCayke has been logical in the way that town are logical, and scum will miss logical steps as they try to push mislynches. I don't know what RayFrost thinks yet. I'm in the process of rereading, so we'll see how this gets resolved and get back to you lovely folk.

We're in agreement regarding Frogito Ergo Sum and Untrod Stranger in that they're null-leaning-scum. Iso reveals nothing impressive coming from Frogito Ergo Sum aside from early bandwagoning and whatnot. I dislike the early spectating behavior when it was Ether vs. singersigner as well as the weirdly-worded L-1 warning. AGar wants to vote, but I want to hold back until I've done this reread.

Final Destination was talking about Untrod Stranger, not YosFlavouredCayke. This is a terrible twist. In fact, here's the link to Final Destination's post, which conveniently quotes a post about Untrod Stranger. Note the full first paragraph there.

We're happy we got a wagon on BeaverWeasel (which we're now defecting) but uncomfortable with YosFlavouredCayke shooting down Final Destination's case against Frogito Ergo Sum.

AGar also expresses his displeasure at your response in post 377. You know my feelings on the matter, but here's his: Your response was not satisfactory, and instead looks and feels ugly as a backpedal.

Speaking from a group perspective: We're in much more agreement regarding town reads than scum reads right now. There's some disagreement about YosFlavouredCayke, and I don't think I'll last very long in the QuickTopic once I've pulled this particular stunt (see below). AGar still likes having Frogito Ergo Sum's collective neck in a knot. I don't think RayFrost has changed his stance on YosFlavouredCayke since Green Shirt Thursday, but I haven't heard him say anything about them since. Personally, I'm undecided(!) on who's scum because I have yet to do the player-by-player analyses that I've been meaning to do since last week. I'll spend a few hours on those before I go poof for the week.

I am unhappy to say that I am immensely displeased with the quality of logic shown in this posts. Llamarble would like to make it known from the quick topic that he's quite convinced that you're scum. I have not shut the door on an FES case, and still believe him to be scum, so endorse people voting for him as good posting. I would also like to say that Super Vanilla Townie has not contributed sufficeint verbiage to the thread to earn him six brownie points or the gold star, and his dayvig of Vi was uncalled for.

@Rayfrost: What you just posted is one of the most insanely idiotic things I've ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you ever close to anything that could have been considered a rational thought. Everyone in this thread is now dumber for having read it. I award you zero town points, and may mod have mercy on your soul.

[Greymarble]

No, you've posted that you have OPINIONS. Opinions are like assholes - everyone has one, and they're full of shit.

I want the logic behind the opinions. I probed for it, and the displayed logic was LAUGHABLE. For a QT that produces a whole lot of opinions, it sure seems short on reasoning.

As for RayFrost, I wasn't interested in debating meta then, I ain't now. The rest was just random insults and scumplaints.

SVT gave more reasons and logic in one post than you have all game.

Fonzi I honestly haven't figured out. I'd use the gut read cop out, but my first game on site after watching Nikanor lynch two scum using logic and nearly two town with gut, I swore never to use that cop out. And I haven't figured out what reads scum to me. When I do, I'll say.

[Greymarble]

Llamarble thinks DaSpot is town, and I happen to agree with him on this.

FOS:

Equinox for disagreeing with Llamarble's logic.

[Greymarble]

Balam: Meta ain't the basis of my arguments. Or the starting point. Here's a meta case:

"[CENSORED] always vote hops without reasoning when he's town"
"[CENSORED] is vote hopping without reasoning"
"[CENSORED] is town!"

...

Yah. So that's nonsense and I don't consider them. Certain behavoiral tells I might consider, but I remember RobCapone from 1105 where he was called on lurking early day 1 on the basis he never lurks as town, and immediately started posting prolifically (something he 'doesn't do' as scum). Or Zang, who used the defense of 'I always lurk, it's a null tell!' to defend his lurking.

That's called EXPERIENCE. It's different from a meta argument. I have experience with kcdaspot, it allows me to read him better. It doesn't mean that I'll think he's town because he's not "lurking like he did when he's scum" or think he's scum becasue he's "not posting frequently."

What I said here was mostly a joke to poke at Frosty. The meat and potatoes of my case is that posts like "Agar thinks X, RayFrost thinks Y, we're going to do B for now" aren't very helpful, and when done in excess allow you to justify virtually any position or vote switch with no shown logic in the thread.

Lets quote you for a second:

(Equinox)

FOS: Equinox for disagreeing with Llamarble's logic.

This is mind-numbingly stupid.

Why yes! Yes it is. So how good is this?

I don't see a problem. I didn't move off Frogito Ergo Sum because the desire for Frogito Ergo Sum's blood in the QuickTopic was pretty high, and I trust AGar's and RayFrost's judgment; I assume neither AGar nor RayFrost moved off because they suspected Frogito Ergo Sum more than GummyBear.

I don't think it's any better. In fact the case you've presented on FES is surprisingly weak, all things considered. Moving to daspot after RayFrost's meta flavored reasons not to vote for him is hardly any better.

And in fact I didn't even call you out on that! I accepted that there could be more going on than what it looked like, and that there was logic and reasoning there. Until...

Preeety sure we've laid out our dislike of FES already. RTT. As for svt: it's the terribad hammer by beaverweasle that makes them a "must die" candidate. This is in the air during the period of time that svt catches up and makes posts, as their play may or may not make up for the scummy play of their predecessor. The GB hydra has been practically inactive in this game, and it's active lurking. They've posted elsewhere, they have the luxury of being able to talk about the game 24/7, and yet their posting here is lackluster and rare. It feels as if they are deliberately avoiding the thread rather than just being too busy to post.

So where are we now?

Tuesday, March 22nd:"

Kill the following: Frogito Ergo Sum, Super Vanilla Townie (but let InflatableParama have their fill first), GummyBear

Monday, March 28th:"

Unvote, Vote: DaSpotthatkillsu

DaSpot posts inbetween then are #47 in the ISO to the end at #58.

And your case is that they're white knighting SVT. Who is becoming a steadily less viable lynch (or at least a less easy one) if it looks like Pie and Parama are actually paying attention. You have to BURN town cred to get them lynched, and they can and will fight back tooth and nail.

I don't particularly buy the white knighting stuff, and I don't particularly buy that DaSpot is scum.

At the moment, I'm going to do a reread, because if nothing else I'd rather lynch a scummy non-contributor than a scummy contributor, but I don't think that you're the lynch.

P.S. Marble contributes logic and reads to the QT on a semi-irregular basis. He's posted twice. He'll either come in or he won't, but he'll have reasons. That's what I like about him and one of the reasons I hydraed with him - he doesn't play based on gut or feelings.

P.P.S. And I really need to give Fonzi that reread, yes.

[Greymarble]

*They're the lynch. Balls. Proofreading for dummies 101.

[Greymarble]

Mini 1105, Ellibereth was V/LA for 80% of the game and coasted to endgame, was town. Multiple Personality Mafia, finding a Mafuyu post or a Rena (Nacho/Haylen hydra) post was like finding a diamond egg, town. Brotherhood of the Wolf, StrangerCoug and GhostWriter both coasted into b. eing replaced day 3 for multiple V/LAs and prods, town

Saporovirus, Mini 1117, did the same. Scum. Llamarble lurk-coasted Multiple Personality Mafia. Scum. I was arguably the most active player in Brotherhood of the Wolf. Scum. Zang lurk coasted forever. Scum.

Gimme more meat than that, Fonzi. The last post was essentially an update on how her reads had changed based on the last few pages (they hadn't) and what occurred to make them that way. That's not badposting. I'd like a better case on SVT/BW (if nothing else because I don't see the scum that apparently everyone else sees) but in terms of doing an MoI or Vi content-free catchup wall, don't see it.

Oh and Equinox? That was meta.

[Greymarble]

Oh I am DOWN with a FES lynch at this point after that last Fonzi post. Watch a quick 180.

If I can accuse ONE PERSON in this game of active lurking, it's FES.

Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:38 pm
Sat Mar 19, 2011 1:47 pm
Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:44 am
Wed Mar 23, 2011 5:30 am
Sun Mar 27, 2011 5:50 pm
Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:36 am

Is da bear any better? Perhaps not, but she seems to be trying to put some content in her posts, and Fonzi doesn't even seem to mention her. Just harass people on the FES wagon and me to vote bear. "FES is a bad wagon for day 2! Try some gummybear, lecture fucking GreyICE on fucking lurking being a scumtell." (HI I'M GREYICE I MIGHTA MADE THIS POINT ONCE OR TWICE)

Screw this.

I've put up with enough bullshittery voting from FES in [REDACTED ONGOING GAME] he gets his ass lynched out of this one.

REVOTE: FES

FUCK YOU FATE, /SHEEP

If he flips scum, I'm firing Fonzi out an airlock. And there'll be a real case behind it.

PEDIT: Ninjad by my goddamn scumread. QQ.

Unvote

[Greymarble]

Fonzi:

Reasons that FES is town and GummyBear is scum. Lurking will officially be ignored as a reason, that applies equally. GO.

GO

GO DAMMIT

[Greymarble]

Bah!

That actually makes some sense. See balam, that's reasoning from one side and the other? Not this "Agar thinks X, RayFrost thinks Y?"

That being said, the meta case? Bullshit.

P.S. If FES's playstyle is to be totally unreadable, town or scum, then it's time to say "I dun care. " I've been accused of being hard to read, but it was because I read as

town

when I was scum. Not because I always read as meh.

That being said I don't even find the meta case that convincing, and the last 'unvote, vote' just seems like a 'well, better play to my town meta' more than anything else.

Screw it.

Vote: Frogito Ergo Scum

I'll always preferentially lynch slots that are scum-ish and posting no content over slots that are scum-ish and posting lots of content. I can learn more later about the slot posting lots, I'll never know anything much about the slot proddodging.

[Greymarble]

Unvote

Not lynching without marble input here.

Oh for god sakes, these hydra things are an enormous pain in the balls.

[Greymarble]

Hey Yos, you ever played a game with CES?

Unvote

,

Vote

It doesn't really help one get a big picture on whether he's town or scum.

[Greymarble]

What if I use a hydra... just the wrong one?

[Greymarble]

Both heads are in strong agreement that DaSpot is a mislynch. Llamarble is playing catchup, and wants the time to evaluate the FES lynch.

If those are our choices though, rest assured the vote is landing on FES 11 times out of 10.

Copper misreading my FOS on Equinox suggests quite a bit more skimming than their posts would.

Regardless still likely town, but you may consider my confidence dropped a few notches.

[Greymarble]

{Pssst... next time be more subtle about coaching}

[Greymarble]

Y'all brace yourselves for a really cool fakeclaim now.

[Greymarble]

You spent way to much time and effort to say "claim naoh"

It's the same as the L-1 thing, it looks like a big show put on in the thread for our benefit. That may be what the little voice in the back of my head was telling me.

Or it may be saying it's lunchtime.

Will think about it.

[Greymarble]

Copper misreading my FOS on Equinox suggests quite a bit more skimming than their posts would.

I've read the relevant parts in more detail. Sorry, but I still just see "FOS for disagreeing with Llmarbles logic", and I still maintain that is silly. Is it a joke I'm missing?

The bit where I've just given balam a hard time for pages about saying things like "AGar thinks X, RayFrost thinks Y, we'll futz about in the thread and not explain any of that?"

...

Do I need to start adding /sarcasm tags?

[Greymarble]

DrMyShotty thinks that disliking sarcasm is scummy, but Llamarble believes it's a null tell.

[Greymarble]

This head has been soloing GreyMarble with limited input from the other, for instance :p

BTW, Copper... hitogoroshi? Mina? I know you, I've played with you before, but only maybe once or twice. :p Eventually this will come to me.

Anyway, I'm declaring this a null tell, because this is exactly the sort of slow plodding analytical game that Parama hates. Would welcome and love the appearance of THB or another Pie hydra, but I'm not going to insist Pie carry on solo in a hydra game.

P.S. I actually *shudder* agree with GummyBear. I get the distinct impression right now that both wagons are town, which is leading me to want to kick the wheels off this and see where it goes. That being said, I have a fair feeling Fate would hunt me down and strangle me if I was wrong, so I'm not going to without a perfect convinction I'm wrong about Fate.

And frankly, having played more with CES, I dun like his response to my case retraction on day 1. That was a tossed together case that was very similar to what I use to pin lynches on townies when I'm scum, me retracting it that way would be something I'd think would make town-CES likely to slam his vote into ME. Not glue it to a player for reasons that are terrible, were terrible, and will always be terrible.

I said I wouldn't vote without Marble here, and I won't. I'm trying my best to play this as a hydra. But towniness of posts aside, day 1 was a terrible thing, and day 2 has been more of the same.

[Greymarble]

Bah, now I'm waffling. I hate that Copper's comment is that both wagons are on good targets.

This head does not hold that kcdaspot is scum because he 'acts scummy.' That's a good reason for day 1, but I need motivation. I see a ton more scum motivation in someone like Balam than I do in spot. I don't see a scum motivation in pushing UB when the rest of us think they're pyscho town (especially when they're likely to pull stunts like epic hammer). kcda's reason for voting YFC was damn straight on and solid reasoning, his reasons for voting FES have been explained and are reasoning.

Copper, explain both wagons being good.

[Greymarble]

Really? That's scummy? 'Cause that reads like town in a tunnel trying to derail the wagons that aren't theirs to me.

And I don't particularly feel like 'interesting information' right now. Normally I'm game, but FES is at L-1, and there's roving unicorns in the thread, I suggest you spit it out sooner rather than later.

[Greymarble]

Oh and I'd just like to respond to Fonzi: YES. I'll lynch without a claim. If I truly believe someone is scum, I'll happily drop the hammer. Did it yesterday in point of fact.

Except for Mason, claims have very little influence on my vote overall. Especially past day 1.

[Greymarble]

So basically this is the result of really, really bad internal communication issues?

[Greymarble]

Really? That's scummy? 'Cause that reads like town in a tunnel trying to derail the wagons that aren't theirs to me.

What you're saying here is that townies will lie about how townie someone else is just to get their favorite lynch through. That's a surprising claim, and one I don't believe. What makes you feel this way?

Copper... failure. Town in a tunnel can and will dismiss weak evidence for other wagons to push their favorite wagon. Fate does it all the time, witness his tunnel on FES.

More to the point, you are suggesting that its evidence that he's scummy because he dismissed evidence against his scumbuddy. I.E. you are presuming knowledge

based on a flip you do not have.

If you believe that SVT is independently scummy enough to lynch, and that danaspot is the likely partner, lynch SVT and if he flips town you'll know you have a null tell.

But I am not sure that's really the point at all.

I'll put my vote here for now.

Vote: Copper

==============================================

Or I might fail completely.

[Greymarble]

Oh gimme a break Copper. Scum are already abusing that meta by defending their partners to the hilt. Since scum never defend their partners, even if the person they're defending flips scum, they must be town!

Second, I'd say that kcdaspot, far more than you or I, is an expert on lurking. Did you ever consider he simply meant it in exactly the context he said it in? Lets quote it for a second:

If they are lurking they should be skimming then RIGHT?
*SVT/Beaver ISO.*
nope. no skimming here. they had a opinion they stuck with it answering questions alongside.

I mean kcdaspot knows his lurking. It means checking the damn thread repeatedly while hoping the attention goes elsewhere. Loud screaming and bandwagons usually make the lurker come running. BW, in contrast, was flaking - periods of inactivity parsed by sporadic bursts, and a complete lack of familiarity with the recent events that bespoke a player no longer connected with the game in any way.

No. kcdaspot is town. I can and will make a case for it. And he's not sticking his neck out to protect a potential mislynch as scum. I know that much too. I can make a meta case, but it's not meta, it's just personality. People can change their actions, but it's hard to change who they are.

You are pushing a case on town while holding open a case on someone I am not sure is scum. And leaving the possibilty of a danaspot town flip to push SVT/BW back into scum.

In short for a hydra that posts a lot of information, your analysis is weaksauce.

[Greymarble]

Hey look, RETARDATION.

We should have policy lynched this waste of oxygen on day 1.

[Greymarble]

Oh well, Llamarble's input is in, and not that it matters, but he suggests FES/Fonzi.

DaSpot is ferociously, actively, painfully town, and we will all be very mad at you multi-headed morons if you lynch him for no good reason. Well except those of you who are scum, that's expected.

UB is a better lynch if you want to lynch town, but I suggest lynching scum.

Got my fingers crossed on this one.

[Greymarble]

Oh well, Llamarble's input is in, and not that it matters, but he suggests FES/Fonzi.

Why doesn't Llamarble's input matter?

Because that looks an awful lot like a Unicorn Hammer up there in the thread above us, so shortly opinions on FES' alignment are going to become very extremely moot.

[Greymarble]

This game sucks moose, and I want to die every time I read it.

Cayke was that defense designed to make me WANT to vote for FES? Every point in it was either bad or terribad.

[Greymarble]

Okay, then lets start.

- his case on FD was crap.
- he's made like... two votes all game. One for FD, one for a hydra I consider obvtown
- That post you quoted was just kinda null-flavored bland
- This is the gummybear post:

What do you think I was trying to say?

We were talking about the presented quotes in #120. We originally thought the contradiction was imaginary but after AIM-fueled reflection came to the conclusion that the point of view Gummybear puts forth does contain an inconsistency. We however feel the inconsistency is, if anything, genuine and not the result of intentionally taking an anti-town position. We dislike the amount of reasoning put forth in #120 since, as evidenced by our position, we don't feel the relevant conclusion follows as straightforwardly as the lack of reasoning suggests.

I dun see how that's very town.

It honestly reads like you flipped through his ISO and grabbed a few reasons he might be town.

[Greymarble]

DrMyShotty thinks succinctness is defintely pro-town and that Copper's succinct rebuttal was very scummy.

He asks if it's okay that he's part of both of our hydras.

[Greymarble]

Needless to say, I find it more than mildly amusing that I'm the only player who is apparently competent enough to post in his hydra at all times.

O RLY

[Greymarble]

Hey! Llamarble hasn't posted on his main account!

So my hydra is tied with yours even if we believe this 'Fate tag' conspiracy theory.

[Greymarble]

Hmm... on the one hand scum read on Balam.

On the other hand, no one gives a SHIT about these two wagons outside of Yos and FD.

Vote:Gummybear

As of this post, you have 33 post-confirm posts made in this thread.

VLA - 1
Catch up soon - 111111111
summary of what happened in the thread - 1111
Fluff/defense (mostly mocking people voting for them) - 1111111
Setup/Hydra Mechanic speculation - 11111
Actual scumhunting - 11111

[Greymarble]

It's called town fate, you derpa derpa hydra

I've actually seen it on the 'off' setting of the 'on/off' switch before, and while slightly disconcerting, is still town.

The fact I'm actually considering comparing this game to Walking Dead should give you an idea of how bad today was.

[Greymarble]

(Equinox)

Welp. I misread. Sorry.

I've actually seen it on the 'off' setting of the 'on/off' switch before, and while slightly disconcerting, is still town.

Meh. I'll take your word for it.

Why take my word for it when you can read and enjoy this fascinating high level game of mafia?

[Greymarble]

...

Shuddup.

Llamarble input in the QT
- FES reread does not give him warm fuzzy blanket of scummy goodness a lynch should have
- At least some of the scum are very, very good players. Our scum group is not exclusively composed of the 'catchup soon' hydra, the 'Spot' hydra, and the 'We can't agree on how to do this entire voting thing' hydra.

He promises posting... yesterday.

[Greymarble]

» Tue Mar 29, 2011 4:36 am CONTENT = WALL
» Thu Mar 31, 2011 6:04 am CONTENT = ANYONE NOT VOTING FES IS SCUMMY
» Mon Apr 04, 2011 2:52 am CONTENT = CATCHUP LATER
» Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:26 pm CONTENT = SCUMPLAIN NO CATCHUP
» Wed Apr 06, 2011 9:39 pm CONTENT = NOW SOMEONE HAMMER OBV

SUDDENLY LOTS OF CONTENT FROM GUMMYBEAR

WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[Greymarble]

At some point it becomes obvious that a day late and a dollar short is not a temporary condition
but an accepted state
If a state is accepted, it is acceptable.

[Greymarble]

I think Reaper Charlie is EXACTLY ballsy and stupid enough to play this badly as scum.

I have tomorrow's lynch.

[Greymarble]

cooltunnelbro

Hey, I caught scum here. You blatantly refused to even respond to my case against you, and I pretty much just consider that a confession. You are going to hang sooner or later; even if you kill me tonight, I'm sure your scummy behavior is just going to keep becoming more obvious to the rest of the town.

That being said, there's more then one scum, and if I can't get you today, I'll have to settle for one of your buddies.

Were #794 and #796 scumclaims, or is it just me?

[Greymarble]

Llama here.
That was Grey saying 794 & 796 were scumclaims, but I think I agree. They smell a lot like "okay I'll lynch my buddy now and then let's make this mislynch tomorrow. Easiest excuse is to say my scumpal looks like a buddy of the mislynch I've been pushing."

Dilemma mafia Yosscummeta shows him saying "I like where you're going with that" when Bub & others attacked his scumbuddy. Here we have:

Here I logged on intenting to sheep on you onto the gummywagon, Ether, mostly because your posting last page was awesome. Now I have to actually think for myself? Bah.

I do approve of the Dana wagon, and was not aware we were getting into serious mode. FES makes the strongest case for Dana, IMO ("^scum")

Last post AGM made in the hydra QT was asking me if I cared about the hydra that didn't reveal itself, so we still haven't had a chance to discuss reads or place a real vote down.

The whole "was not aware we were getting into serious mode" bit is mildly scummy. Also, the whole post does feel oddly overcautious, which, in my limited experence with him, is not a trait I normally associate with Fate.

Sure, let's ride this wagon and see what happens.

Vote:Final Destination

-Yos

And

Gummy bear looks like an easy mislynch, and that was such a nice little way of saying "oh, I could see hopping to that wagon if it gains momentum, but I just don't trust it..."

Ok, now, that's absurd.

Ether's reasoning for suspecting Gummy made perfect sense, and was about as strong as you'd expect for page 5 of day 1. The fact that she was willing to wagon hop to someone else scummy in order to get pressure going is a good sign, not a bad one. Basically as soon as the game started, she ran right out onto the high wire without a net, just to get reactions and to get the game moving. And what's more, she's clearly having fun doing it; if Ether's enjoying herself in a game, you can bet money that she's town.

Are you reading Ether's posts this game? Half the reason I was assuming Fate was scum because I didn't think there's any way that anyone pro-town could read Ether's posts and not see that they all screamed town.

Yos' stuff on Gummy all sounds like "I'll vote my buddy if his wagon really takes off and in the mean time I'll say I like peoples' thinking when they vote them. I won't superpress their lynch myself though."

Also Yos wants to lynch obvtownspot. @Yos: Did you actually think I was scum on the other scumteam in Dilemma mafia?
Also Yos fits with my "scumteam has really good players" feeling I've been getting.

So Yos gets heavy scrutiny if we get a scumflip out of Gummy.

[Greymarble]

The mafia will not be found by playing "pick three of:"

The spot hydra
The flaky hydra
The 'catchup soon' hydra
The 'how the hell do we vote?' hydra

Also llamarble and me disagree on meta. We tend to hit the same targets from different angles though,

so

...

[Greymarble]

We are loathe to let FES live.

AGM and I were tossing around the idea though that Yos was hard defending FESTown because he knew he'd get PoE'd by us if FES flipped town.

Yoscayke's bullshit linking of Gummy bear, AS WELL AS Unicorn's bullshit linking= scumteam call time:

Yos
Gummy
Unicorn Brethren

This is my guess, and yes it doesn't involve that intractable SOB FES, but it makes sense holistically. Gummy starts going down in a flash because not enough scum were pushing the FES wagon, and it was stallin, and Balam town had enough and started the train on Gummy. Greytown follows, I follow, Gummy looks to be going down HARD: Yoscarykce and UB start linking her alignment to other townies (DaSpot in particular)

Makes sense to me.

Let's FUCKING DO THIS FINALLY

I smell that ReaperCharlie is town who has some inane idea that UB should throw all the hammers in this town, so doesn't want to vote if it isn't a hammer. That being said, if we're going to policy lynch someone for extreme anti-town behavior, we have a bloody volunteer in the audience.

Plus he'd probably do the same thing as scum anyway, so w/e, day miller is day miller.

[Greymarble]

I still would like one person, anyone, to explain to me why we're not lynching Spot today before i switch my vote off of him. Explain to me how the hell anyone could think Spot could possibly be town at this point.

Well I'm pretty sure you have role-related information that coud help you out onto why he's not scum.

As to why the rest of us haven't bought your little QT-flavored mislynch, well, we weren't born yesterday.

[Greymarble]

I FIGURED OUT WHY YOU'RE SCUMMY

[Greymarble]

Past couple of pages:
Re: Copper question about UB's points we agree with...will go back and check in a few hours.

Oh look Lord's talking about animosity between heads...gofuckingfigure he'd allow that to waffle over his reads.

How are we waffling over our reads, exactly?

We're voting you, and stating that you are very scummy.

We have expressed a strong town read on UB. Since we're different people, it's obvious that there are going to be some issues we're not in unison over. The two reads to whom that really applies are FD and FES.

THIS

THIS ENORMOUS CHANGE IN READ

IT IS VERY SCUMMY

I give up

[Greymarble]

Yos
Gummy

Unicorn Brethren

FONZI

AND THEN WE'RE ON THE SAME PAGE

[Greymarble]

Really, I've seen more reactions to the gummybear wagon in six hours than I saw to FES and DaSpot in the three centuries this day has lasted.

This means something.

[Greymarble]

Uh can we get a votecount? Immediately?

I'm not liking the change in DaSpot's play. Makes me think we're onto something with the gummybear wagon.

YosCake is town, stop trying to lynch them. It won't happen. I'm suspicious of everyone trying to line them up to die tomorrow if gummybear flips scum.

Incidentally, FD seems to have pulled a 180 here, without any thought given to it. I guess that's the benefit of playing like you're insane, no one gives it a second thought. Anyway, I did notice it, so there you go.

This post?

You mean the one where you FOS DaSpot for the Gummybear wagon, FOS everyone whose suspicious of Yos, and FOS FinalDestination?

I agree it's pretty scummy.

Outside of that, what the hell was

agreeable

about it?

[Greymarble]

A few spot towntells:
Saying he wouldn't shut up unless instructed by Dana to do so
Being loud and excited about the game
Asking silly rules questions like "do scum have daytalk?" (town wondering is a bit more likely than scum pretending)

Spotscum in Lovers Multiball (ongoing but his faction's gone) got constantly chewed out by his lover for sinking their team and spent a lot of time profusely apologizing. So I do not see spotscum coming out headfirst and carefree to the degree he has here at all.

He's my strongest townread (and I think Grey's as well) and I remember noticing other things that make him town that I'll go back for if people are actually considering lynching him.

[Greymarble]

Of course, you're not going to explain yourself, either. At this point, you're just going to try to spam and clog up the thread with garbage until deadline to try to get the town to no-lynch. Well, it's not going to work.

Also this is comically reminiscent of how you tried to get me mislynched in Dilemma mafia.

[Greymarble]

Okay lets play meta games then Yosarian. Since it's so convincing. I agree meta can be useful sometimes, a meta argument basically won this game for me.

Here's Kcdaspot as scum:
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=16523

Completed game that started a good bit after this one did. Also one RayFrost has memories of.

Spotty makes some cases on some people:
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p2819722

I kick one little ball his way and he basically folds up and starts lurking. Hell yeah I didn't push it, if it wasn't RayFrost I wasn't gonna commit NK suicide by successfully driving a scum lynch in F11 when it'd happen naturally and I could get some cop investigates in by the by.

Here he comes back guns... proving to be water pistols, but squirting you nevertheless. Your entire case on him boils down to 'he doesn't make good cases.'

And you aren't even the lynch here. You know why?

Gummybear posts pre-wagon:

33 (counting VLAs and /confirms)
Duration: Feb 25th - April 6th

Gummybear posts post Balam vote:

10
Dates: April 6th to April 8th

Glad to see you 'suddenly' have time for the game.

kcdaspot, remind you of anything in lovers? Move to gummybear, we can always lynch Yos tomorrow.


PEDIT: Hello!

[Greymarble]

A few spot towntells:
Saying he wouldn't shut up unless instructed by Dana to do so
Being loud and excited about the game
Asking silly rules questions like "do scum have daytalk?" (town wondering is a bit more likely than scum pretending)

Spotscum in Lovers Multiball (ongoing but his faction's gone) got constantly chewed out by his lover for sinking their team and spent a lot of time profusely apologizing. So I do not see spotscum coming out headfirst and carefree to the degree he has here at all.

He's my strongest townread (and I think Grey's as well) and I remember noticing other things that make him town that I'll go back for if people are actually considering lynching him.

Why did it take you so long to post this?

'cause I don't do town cases unless and until the townie is nearing lynch. It's more fun to watch the scum nose around the obvious mislynch to see if anything bites.

It looks a bit like this copper:

Player	Questions/Interactions
Unicorn Bretheran	11111
Frogito Ergo Sum	1111111
Gummybear	1111
Final Destination	11
Balam	1111
Lord Fonzi	1111
Greymarble	111111111
SVT	111
YFC	111
DaSpot	11111111

Now this table is kind of interesting. It's the people you like to have back and forths with. Not mention in passing, but actually question and answer, scumhunt, work with.

You're a very questioning hydra. Yet you are a very SPECIFIC one.

Can we assume you question your top scum suspects? No. You've expressed suspicion of GummyBear, but your interactions are minimal. Is this for lurking? No. FES receives much more attention. Is it for frequent posting? No. I post much less frequently than Balam, but you barely talk to Balam at all. You've spent as much time questioning YFC as you have super-flake.

I'll be honest. This chart is weirding me out. You have people you like to talk to and people you don't like to talk to. It feels very, very agenda driven.

[Greymarble]

Meh, FES definitely will.

Copper has been demoted to VERY bad feeling land. The land I take people shortly before I strangle them.

Okay, hold the lines. Fate:

Copper
YFC
Fonzi

Scale of 1-10, what would you rate it?

[Greymarble]

No. It gives me one of those bad feelings. Don't get me wrong. Lynching SingerSigner would be an absolute treat I'd enjoy. If they flipped town I'd laugh anyway.

But it could be honest. That being said, I really, really, really dislike them. It feels a lot like the newbie game, y'know? "I realize the lurking really hurt the hell out of my team..." but my team wasn't the town...

Interactions between players (not commentary on a post they made, actual honest to god interactions)

Fonzi -
- Copper: 1
- YFC: 1

YFC -
- Fonzi: 11
- Copper: 1

YFC's interactions with Fonzi even call out Fonzi for ignoring them.

Oh YFC... what do you think of ol' Fonz Fonz ignoring you right now? You seemed to drop it, despite keeping a record of every little thing DaSpot has done.

Just startin to get one of these feeellings...

Unvote

[Greymarble]

Actually that Gummy post didn't give me (llama) bad feelings about lynching them considering they were talking about whether putting their vote where they felt it belonged would earn them votes. A VT should just care about using their vote to help lynch scum and letting others read you by being transparent about what you're thinking of the game. Especially a VT who isn't currently in huge trouble. And players about to be lynched can fight with varying degrees of rage or accept their fate or just lurk. Scum take the accept-fate angle often enough that seeing it doesn't unnerve me too much.

I am a bit concerned that Gummy hasn't really dished out a lot of wifomy stuff. I need to go see if they tried to make Spot look like their scumbuddy, especially after Yos mentioned the possibility.

Also I do feel like something insidious is going on in YosFonzland. Fonzi feels really scummy and has had some scummy posts. I guess I should flesh that out too before day ends.

I think Balam is town at this point, but I've had a strong townread on equinoxscum before.
I like some collection of Yos/Fonzi/UB/Gummy/Copper for the scums at the moment.

[Greymarble]

Okay Gummy's last couple of posts have included a couple things that could be faked scumlinks to Spot.
Specifically "Spot, you're reacting really, really poorly right now. I'm actually thinking whichever head is posting may be intoxicated."
So this lynch is not giving me bad feelings. I won't revote without Grey approving though, and I should make a Fonzi case.

[Greymarble]

Go for it on both counts. I was having problems with Fonzi, but the bit where like a bunch of townies jumped into a boat he was pushing and his reaction, instead of "well finally!" was "wait, what?" was all sorts of bad. Also you've kicked my ass at reading lurker slots before.

[Greymarble]

Like scumteam.

YFC-Fonzi interactions. YFC bitches at Fonzi for 'ignoring' them, like weakly, then forgets about it.

Copper interactions with YFC-Fonzi.

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

MOVE THAT SEVEN DOWN APPROPRIATELY

[Greymarble]

Which only applies if GummyBear flips town, of course

BAH

[Greymarble]

Wait, Unicorns have a scumread.

NVM, Copper is obvtown.

[Greymarble]

I still think Lord Fonzi is scummy.
They chose the easycasestomake FES/Spot/Gummywagons.
They came out pretty fast with an L-1 FES vote.
Their tunnel on Gummy feels slightly bussy and insufficiently supported by their posting.
It's based on lurking which is not likely to cause a lynch but gives free reign to yowl at a buddy.
They are happy to set up a gummy-balam connection well in advance.
They use the "what you did is what scum do" argument structure that fully distances from a lynchresult.
They hand out tons of scumreads but don't seem to be trying to figure out what's going on overall (i.e. by presenting potential teams that really make sense) so much as pointing out things that could be taken as scumtells.

That said I think Gummy is very likely a buddy for them and I'm not sure which is independently scummier.
I get warm fuzzy feelings thinking about lynching either of them.
I don't find Yoscayke quite as independently scummy.

VOTE: Gummybear L - 1
This is a good lynch and the deadline is here.

[Greymarble]

Shit yeah, I'm your local hydra disaster.

*crosses fingers*

YFC's interactions with Fonzi even call out Fonzi for ignoring them.

Oh YFC... what do you think of ol' Fonz Fonz ignoring you right now? You seemed to drop it, despite keeping a record of every little thing DaSpot has done.

I was unhappy with Fonz, and starting to wonder about his alignment, when he was seemingly ignoring everything I said, even posts specifically directed to him about Froggy, while his vote on Froggy.

His posts since then, though, have struck me as pretty pro-town.

Well since you're here Yos, comment on this for me:

What gives you a pro-town feeling from Fonz?

He wants to lurker lynch, which is at best neutral, he pushes Gummybear right up until a wagon shows up then he panics, and his response to Llamarble was just lolz.

Specifics on why he's a town read.

[Greymarble]

It's me and Llamarble btw.

I could sign my posts, but frankly, 95% of this hydra's posts are effectively signed by the massive difference in posting styles