Open 293 - Donner Party Mafia, Take Two (Game Over)

[DeathRowKitty]

/comfirn that I do not know how to spell 'confirm'

[DeathRowKitty]

And that's 10

Vote: other mermaid (singer)

I have a good feeling about this vote.

[DeathRowKitty]

@tcl
Do you think it's useful to vote someone who can't react or defend himself?

[DeathRowKitty]

Oops...forgot to comment on everything else:

Vote: DeathRowKitty

for that awful Tit for Tat beatdown. -_-

<3

/confirm

Vote DH he is the SK

Any way no more posts from me today, I'm off to mod my newbie and then I'm going out.

Not gonna get a response until tomorrow on this, but why did you find it necessary to tell us you wouldn't be around today? Did you expect a lot to happen in the first RL day of the game that you wouldn't be around for?

[DeathRowKitty]

If you know your vote wasn't useful, why not change it?

[DeathRowKitty]

1. Serial Killer hunting (even in jest)? Subtle slip …

Ha! I forgot there was an sk in this game.
(Also, obligatory "hi!" and not-obligatory-but-being-said-anyway "I hate you for going after the same two people I did and doing a better job of it")

Vote: Shotty

[DeathRowKitty]

tcl is town. Don't worry about him. Pretty sure lane is too. Friend is more likely scum.

[DeathRowKitty]

He gets killed night 1 a lot. That was presumably just his way of establishing himself as a strong player for anyone unfamiliar with him. Then again, I probably shouldn't be answering for him, but oh well.

[DeathRowKitty]

I probably have a reason for it, but nothing that looks good on paper. It's not strong enough to pursue right now anyway.

[DeathRowKitty]

That's cool. What do you think of DH?

[DeathRowKitty]

OH GAWD, IT'S A WALL. HIDE YO WIFE, HIDE YO KIDS, HIDE YO HUSBAND CUZ MAGNA'S RAPIN' ALL DA SCUMZ OUT HERE...except I disagree with his conclusion on lane entirely.

It seems like you're getting lost in trying to find motivation where there's only mindset. Then again, it's just as likely I'm actually completely out of my mind, so I should stop talking. Or typing. Or both.

Really? That’s interesting.

1. Did you not fully review all the role-pms upon the game starting to gather information? I did. From doing so I learned that scum have Daychat so I abandoned a line of thought I had about Friend being possible Goon for being late to confirm while being active elsewhere on site.
2. You directly quoted Shotty saying “DH is the SK”. You didn’t notice him referring to the SK then?

I read the roles before signing up for the game, but that's pretty much it. I kind of /in'ed for 6 games in one day and 5 of them started within a 2 day span iirc. Still getting my bearings as to which is which. (Yes, I know/am always aware of my role/alignment in all of them >.>)

As for reading role PMs...well, I probably would have at least considered it if they weren't all in spoilers. I'm actually kind of surprised mafia have day talk, considering only one of them is given the role of the mafia night kill.

I probably should have realized something when I quoted shotty's sk line, but I just skimmed over it as an in-joke.

[DeathRowKitty]

Do you think it's bad for someone you find suspicious to get to 4 votes?

[DeathRowKitty]

After further thought, I might be willing to change my mind on tcl. I still think lane is town though, in addition to Friend.

[DeathRowKitty]

I'm actually kind of surprised mafia have day talk, considering only one of them is given the role of the mafia night kill.

Can you explain the bolded because you lost me completely in the undergrowth there …

Did I word it badly? I was referring to the fact that only the goon submitting the kill finds out the role of the dead player. It seems strange to me that mafia have day talk because it means the second goon finds out immediately.

It seems like you're getting lost in trying to find motivation where there's only mindset.

Can you explain the difference and why one is valid scum-hunting but the other isn’t please?

I'm 0/2 on wording here, aren't I? I meant that you're looking at his posts and thinking "he said this because he's scum looking for town cred" or whatnot, but right now it looks to me like he's an excited new player going "ooooh, shiny! *post*".

In terms of what I disagree with in your case on lane....well, I disagree with most of it. I think most of it is looking at things he's said that are scummy in certain circumstances and saying they're scummy in this particular case. But that's just my take on things.

What's your current opinion on tcl?

[DeathRowKitty]

That was all you found useful to comment on in your first game-relevant post?

[DeathRowKitty]

Eh, not really. I tend to have kind of arbitrary gut reads I don't bother explaining. I actually only mentioned I thought he was town in that second quote because my read had changed.

[DeathRowKitty]

I can say that he's likely town.

[DeathRowKitty]

Fine, I'll try digging up posts...

[DeathRowKitty]

Actually, I'm confused now. I think my read on him changes every time I try to read him. So I'll actually be giving you reasons to think he's scummy.

On second thought, no I won't. Most of my reads at this point are almost purely gut and explaining it is counterproductive. I do have one kind of sketchy non-gut tell on him that I don't care to say just because it applies fairly heavily to me when I'm scum.

[DeathRowKitty]

@tcl
I don't think it would help enough to merit being said. Scum will look like scum one way or another eventually. Also, use

Code: Select all

[quote="username"]stuff you're quoting[/quote]

to get the nifty "Username said".

The thing in the code box would appear as

stuff you're quoting

[DeathRowKitty]

Okay, this is going to sound terrible, but you can meta him yourself if you don't believe me: andrew94 is scum because he sucks less than usual. Would definitely be willing to join an andrew wagon if one were to pop up

And Shotty needs to come back to this thread and talk with us .

Oh, and lane-wagon is still fail. I don't remember it getting up to L-2, but if it actually did, people really need to stop believing everything written in long posts.

Anyway, just so I can look like an idiot when I'm wrong: sk is shotty, mafia are Friend and andrew94

Pre-post edit (regarding last 3 posts): Perhaps TS deserves one of those 3 scum spots...

[DeathRowKitty]

Hi guys. I'm happy for you and I'mma let you finish (actually I'm not), but andrew is the scummiest scum that's ever scummed this thread of all time. OF ALL TIME.

Unvote: shotty

Vote: andrew94

(hi shotty, I unvoted you, you can come post again)

Also, as for

Perhaps TS deserves one of those 3 scum spots...

Replace TS with "either TS or tcl". I'm kind of failing at reading both of them right now, but whatever. It's page 5 and we have obv-scum andrew to lynch anyway.

@anyone around now
Look through some of andrew's games. (linky) Pick a bunch of completed games at random and skim through the early game, focusing on andrew's posts. Then tell me whether he's town or scum this game. Bonus points for coming up with the right answer (hint: scum).

[DeathRowKitty]

Click on their name, then click view topics.

Let's ignore ongoing games and just look at completed games. Don't try to draw meta from games you don't know his alignment in (and we can't dicuss ongoing games anyway). Just read random games from him. His town games and his scum games are VERY different.

[DeathRowKitty]

Friend called it scum-driven, not me.

And seriously MoI, read andrew's games and THEN make that statement.

[DeathRowKitty]

I have no problem with you not liking meta as the foundation of a case. I ask that you actually do try reading the early parts of a few of andrew's games before just saying no though.

[DeathRowKitty]

So Twistedspoon, you seem very interested in defending andrew on generalities here.

"Oh, he always plays like this (in the ongoing games I'm in with him that I can't talk about)." "I'm sure his buddy is telling him how to play if he's scum!"

Have you actually checked the games I'm looking at or do you just enjoy defending andrew?

Pre-post edit: Scum generally buddy to town fwiw. Scum are usually afraid to buddy up to their actual buddies.

[DeathRowKitty]

When you say you see the case against andrew, what are you referring to?

[DeathRowKitty]

Well, the crux of what's been said against him is that his play this game matches with his scum history (in fact, I'm pretty sure the only other thing brought up was this). Without having read past games, to say you see the case against him is rather foolish, I would think.

[DeathRowKitty]

Uhhh....it's been 4 minutes since you said you didn't. How fast do you read?

[DeathRowKitty]

Okay, now, anyone that disagreed with using meta this early:

Does andrew-scum make more sense if Twistedspoon is his buddy?

[DeathRowKitty]

I don't think andrew is scum.

What do you think of Twistedspoon's posts regarding the andrew wagon?

[DeathRowKitty]

Unvote: andrew

Vote: Twistedspoon

This wagon is definitely acceptable to me.

[DeathRowKitty]

I don't think andrew is scum.

What do you think of Twistedspoon's posts regarding the andrew wagon?

I think they're a poor excuse to set up a wagonvote on a weak player like andrew.

Let's assume for the moment that Twistedspoon is scum. Can you explain to me the thought process behind his posts if andrew is town?

[DeathRowKitty]

Nope, I haven't. I'm not sure how well I could really explain it to be perfectly honest...which is why I told people to read it for themselves instead. Do you disagree that you're playing differently from your town meta?

As regards Twistedspoon, I really think that if he's scum, andrew should also be scum. If andrew is town, I find it hard to imagine Twisted-scum acting the way he did. That was one hell of a waffling job and scum tend not to waffle quite that way over townies just because it feels awkward and it's easy enough to choose a side.

[DeathRowKitty]

(that was directed to andrew)

[DeathRowKitty]

I can't talk about {redacted} because {redacted} is ongoing, but I really think you should reread {redacted} before saying that because if anyone goes to look at {redacted}, you're going to look like a {redacted} idiot.

[DeathRowKitty]

yea but the fact that you pushed the lynch on me for {redacted} suggests that you think i am scum. clearly, i flipped town and thus you are wrong.

thus: you are wrong

Okay, now you're getting too far into ongoing games. If anyone wants to read that game, they can. If not, well, no, there's nothing else to that.

[DeathRowKitty]

I don't thiiiiink I posted it in any games, but oh well. <3

[DeathRowKitty]

analogy time: you're like a person that doesn't know how to read a game thread...because you clearly are not capable of reading {redacted}

another analogy: you're like a person that doesn't know what an analogy is...because you don't know what an analogy is....

[DeathRowKitty]

Every post you make drops my faith in humanity just a little bit more.

[DeathRowKitty]

Not looking at this thread again until tomorrow morning. I am seriously sick and tired of stupidity and if your next post is anything like your previous ones, my likely response in my current mental state will be in all caps and likely get me force replaced as a bare minimum.

[DeathRowKitty]

When {redacted} ends, you're getting a hell of an angry post about how wrong you are.

Why do you find that strange? We are in a 9-2-1 set-up where there are two discrete kills that the Goons do not control. Daytalk and coordination is one of the only strengths the Mafia team has.

Seemed at the time to ruin part of the mechanics of the game (the killer being the only player to know dead players' roles). Didn't really think about it past that.

Why are you using theoretical situations that work only towards the reads you already have?

Not sure what you expected to get out of asking me this. I think andrew and TS are scum. I was trying to get Friend to agree. Should I be asking questions to people about what to make of TS's actions if he's town or something? Not only do I disagree with the assumption in that (that TS is town); even if he's town, that's a useless question.

[DeathRowKitty]

All I've said about the game is that he's wrong about it. He's the one that keeps trying to bring it up.

[DeathRowKitty]

Heh. Apparently I stopped posting in this game. Whoops. Not sure it's worthwhile to respond to individual posts, so I'm just gonna give my take on a few things for now:

Lane's "Slips"

I really don't find them that scummy. As scum, if I start typing something like "you guys" to refer to town, I immediately change it to prevent exactly what people are doing to lane in this game. As town, if I type something like that, I'm doing so because it feels right to me in that particular context and while I might pause for half a second while I think "should I really word it like that?", I generally just leave it as is. Basically, it's almost too scummy to be scummy.

Then again, lane is

Twistedspoon

Twistedspoon's last two votes have been baaaad. Both have been accompanied by ridiculously shaky reasoning, despite evidence having been presented against both of them by others. Particularly of note is TS quoting 4 posts where Friend gave town reads to show that Friend is giving too many town reads, even though 3 of them were for the same player! His saying he finds Friend scummy for his iso followed by nitpicking is also probably scummy, but that's more of an I'd-personally-be-more-likely-to-do-that-as-scum king of tell than anything else.

Xalxe's Post

If you know your vote wasn't useful, why not change it?

It was quite obviously a joke (re: tclawren’s vote for Escho). Why give him shit about it?

Because his vote was blatantly useless and a good reason to go after someone in the RVS? You do know we don't get out of the RVS until someone makes something happen, right?

Defense?

Jesus. Fucking. Christ.

Is there something wrong with giving reads relevant to the current topics of discussion?

Was there anything else you didn't like from my play or am I scum for giving reads and for questioning people during RVS (pre-post edit: and "guiding the newb" (speaking of which, what exactly do you mean by that))?

Pre-post edit: You don't think TS was scummy for anything else, but you think he's scummy for....that?

[DeathRowKitty]

Yeah, but giving him shit for that didn't make sense, as I put it in the same category as a vote for the mod (which, btw, is an excellent practice).

You're kidding, right? So how would your ideal RVS go?

Player 1 - Vote: the mod
Player 2 - Vote: player who isn't here and can't respond
Player 3 - Vote: the mod lolol bandwagon
Player 4 - Vote: the mod come on guys, we can do it!
Player 5 - Vote: Obama
Player 6 - Vote: for Pedro
Player 7 - Vote: the mod
Player 8 - Vote: the mod
Player 9 - Vote: your mom
Player 10 - Vote: another player who isn't here and can't respond
Player 11 - Vote: the mod SOMEONE HAMMER
Player 12 - Vote: the mod HAMARHARHAHRHARHAHRHAHRAHRAHR

Is that about right (and don't get cute about players 2 and 10 voting for players who weren't there even though everyone voted)? Welp, sorry I had to ruin your perfect vision of the early game. Can't believe I actually tried to get the game going somewhere. How terribly scummy of me.

No, you are scum for saying "this person is scum." You are scummy for not giving reasoning behind those reads, and that's what I'm looking for.

Considering you've played with me on #mafia, I'm calling complete and utter bullshit on this. Complete and utter bullshit.

[DeathRowKitty]

Should it surprise you if my play style in each is similar?

[DeathRowKitty]

If you don't think it's surprising that I would play similarly in chat and forum mafia and not giving reasons for a lot of my reads follows my chat mafia play style, why do you think it's scummy if I do the same thing in forum mafia?

[DeathRowKitty]

People who don't defend their reads

look

scummier? Are they

actually

scummier?

Which reads specifically that I gave do you think required more reasoning?

[DeathRowKitty]

Oh, come onnnnnn. You're pretty much triple-counting my Friend-waffling and I definitely (implicitly, at the very least) gave enough reason for my Twistedspoon read.

[DeathRowKitty]

@Xalxe and DRK – Does you think your Mafia Game Theory back and forth serves any scum-hunting purpose?

Yes.

...

Oh, you wanted an explanation? Well, then you should have asked for one.

I was trying to see if he actually believed what he was saying and if he would budge on any of it when it was argued....speaking of which

@Xalxe
Respond to my RVS thing. I just realized you never did.

[DeathRowKitty]

I've called lane town 4 times without prompting and only given reasoning one of those times. Lane has been a point of contention for most of the game and there's nothing wrong with repeating a town read if it's relevant.

[DeathRowKitty]

Then why don't you find it suspicious that I've done it more than he has?

[DeathRowKitty]

Oh, come onnnnnn. You're pretty much triple-counting my Friend-waffling and I definitely (implicitly, at the very least) gave enough reason for my Twistedspoon read.

No, I'm counting the fact that you continuously don't give reads.

What? Do you mean don't give reason for reads? If so, no, you mean the fact that I continuously don't give reasons for my reads on one player (yeah, plus a couple others, but you're still triple-counting him).

@Xalxe
Respond to my RVS thing. I just realized you never did.

What RVS thing?

This. Do you still think that was scummy?

[DeathRowKitty]

1) ...my own? Why do you think I am an alt?

Xalxe is a Scummer who joined on January 20, 2010 at the age of 16.

He is a known alt of somebody

, but who that somebody is remains a mystery to all but the most obersvant.

*giggles*

[DeathRowKitty]

Uhhh....sorry to intrude on your scumhunting and all, but it's kind of unfair to expect an alt to reveal its main.

I, however, could reveal it for a price

[DeathRowKitty]

Do you like cupcakes?

[DeathRowKitty]

Quiet, scum, I'm asking MoI

[DeathRowKitty]

I'm already voting your buddy. Now quiet down so MoI can answer. I'm trying to have a pleasant conversation with him.

[DeathRowKitty]

And why ask if he likes cupcakes anyways?

Why not ask him if he likes cupcakes?

MoI takes the game so seriously. I figured it would be fun to start a completely inane conversation with him and see where it went. Unfortunately, he wasn't there to respond.

i was implying that if i am vig, i would vig him cos hes annoying the crap out of me

But am I scum annoying the crap out of you or town annoying the crap out of you?

[DeathRowKitty]

Alright... one of a few original thoughts I am able to form in mafia... but after thinking about it a little more... let me know if anyone can see what i see? Or if you know them better and the game better, tell me I'm an idiot.

Andrew and DRK have been bickering like a married couple for the last few pages. After the redacted, i thought they just hated each other. After this other stupid one, I feel like they are putting on a cute little show for us. Would it be completely out of line for me to suggest that andrew and drk are scum buddies? trying to hard to subtly distance eachother? Because after thought about this more i went and looked at andrews games as drk suggested. what i find is that he was a better scum hunter in the beginning when he was scum AND when he was town, when we compare it to this game. What i suspect is that drk knew this and knew that people would not find a lot of weight in his argument to go look at andrews games and you will see. I imagine most people wouldnt take the time, and just take drk's word for it, but i took the time and i dont see where drk was going for it. To me it was an

empty

attack on andrew. not too mention he unvoted andrew for andrew's "buddy" twisted. And merely said twisted seems like an acceptable wagon after all that hoopala about andrew. I really feel its a nice little show they are putting on for us.

I think xalxe said something about drk not giving reads on his suspects. Maybe thats because he is scum and doesnt have reads.

can i get some response from some professionals?

A planned bus for day 1 for a 2 player mafia team in a game with an SK with NK-immunity would be really stupid. If andrew and I were actually buddies and I went and intentionally got him lynched day 1, it would make me look town, which would just make the serial killer want to kill me. I also think you're not looking at quite the right things in andrew's play. Unfortunately, I'm pretty terrible at explaining things like that, so meh.

[DeathRowKitty]

they haven't caught up yet or are waiting for a friend response.

I can't tell if you're serious about this. Please clarify?

surely you'd only want to or need to know if you were the vig, SK or mafioso?

Did you seriously just point out what you perceive to be an above-average chance of someone being vig? >.< Why is ANYONE against this lynch?!?!?!

[DeathRowKitty]

they haven't caught up yet or are waiting for a friend response.

Well, if you were serious about that, add some more scum points. I can't see anyone in your position believing that, whereas it's easy to imagine scum saying that so as not to sound like they're already out of the game.

No, It's an above average chance of someone being SK or mafia.
They're 3 times more likely to be that than vig, so why focus on that?

A player with an above average chance of being mafia/sk and a probability of being vig that's 1/3 the probability of being mafia/sk has an above average chance of being vig. Yes, I'm intentionally just skipping ahead to straight math here by splitting hairs, but a similar logical argument could be made for what you said. I don't know how you could possibly think town could benefit from you pointing out something you think makes him more likely than average to be vig.

[DeathRowKitty]

Damn it.

Unvote

If TS isn't vig, real vig shoots him at night. If he doesn't die, he's sk and you shoot him again.

Leaving for a little while. I'll vote when I come back.

[DeathRowKitty]

I didn't point out the day vig thing in case it was a gambit (also not submitting this post until TS responds to tcl).

tcl is right about the breadcrumb thing. You can't expect town to spot your breadcrumbs unless you also expect scum to find them, in which case you shouldn't be laying them down anyway.

Anyway, leave TS alone the rest of the day. Fake vig claims in open setups have a tendency to sort themselves out at night.

Pre-post Edit: TS, you didn't realize you weren't a day vig?

[DeathRowKitty]

EVERYONE LEAVE TWISTED ALONE. IF HE IS NOT THE VIG, HE WILL BE KILLED AT NIGHT. IF HE IS THE VIG, HE WILL PROBABLY BE KILLED AT NIGHT ANYWAY. WE ARE NOT LYNCHING HIM. PLEASE AND THANK YOU.

Do you think TS would pull something like that? Furthermore, if you think that he is lying scum, to you, is he rolefishing or saving his own ass?

Well, scum at L-1 really have no reason not to claim a power role (unless they expect everyone to miraculously unvote after a vanilla claim)...although claiming RB would be the smarter move, considering vig doesn't have to claim to kill someone fakeclaiming. So to answer your question, if Twisted is scum, he was probably hoping to out a power role and survive just a little longer.

Also, Twisted should decide who he's vigging before the end of the day. If he decides to vig someone and he dies but his target doesn't, we'll know who the sk is.

[DeathRowKitty]

Got caught up with marathon games and kind of neglected most of my regular games. Will get caught up later today.

[DeathRowKitty]

I'M HERE AND POSTING AND STUFF (or at least will post in a second)

I see lane has claimed.

Wow, this was a pointless post. Catching up on what I missed now.

[DeathRowKitty]

Ummm...okay, never mind, he didn't seriously claim. He's still a terribad lynch. He's been one of my most constant town reads here.

Vote: Xalxe

Hell, it's mostly gut (he sounds too much like I do when I'm overenthusiastically faking being scum)...well, plus the other random crap from my brief back and forth with him earlier, but with deadline coming around and me lurky lurk lurking, what do you expect? I know there's at least one vote on him already and lane lynch is absolutely awful here.

[DeathRowKitty]

Actually, andrew has more votes on him and that's not a bad lynch either.... Some of andrew's recent posts seem kind of townish in some weird way though...wow, sorry, my thoughts sound completely drunken. *needs more sleep*

Unvote: Xalxe

Vote: andrew

Anyone voting lane because they actually think he's scummy is delusional.

[DeathRowKitty]

No he hasn't.

Pre-post Edit: This is directed at chesskid

[DeathRowKitty]

(and yes, I know which post you're referring to, but I don't think it was a softclaim)

[DeathRowKitty]

Okay, I reread it and it might be....fail if it is

Unvote: andrew

Vote: Xalxe

[DeathRowKitty]

What? We still have 16 hours according to the mod's time and date thing

[DeathRowKitty]

So Xalxe, you're saying you think he was expecting to draw a counterclaim from that? Why do you think that and explain to me why he approached it the way he did.

[DeathRowKitty]

@DRK – What happened to your ‘Andrew is playing to his scum meta’ case you made. I see you wave it away with ‘he’s playing better as of late’?

At this point your scum-hunting today is ‘errr … Gut’ and Meta which you don’t seem to believe in strongly at all. Not impressive if you are Town.

I disappeared for 4 days and only really bothered to consider the last few pages in my return posts. The game currently feels discontinuous in my mind and I haven't gotten fully immersed in it again.

And your tunneling of lane is quite unimpressive if you're town, I might add. You keep looking at lane's posts and being like "OMG WHY U SAY THIS?" without bothering to look past the words. Honestly, lane is my strongest town read right now and the fact that he stood to be the lynch until recently is just completely ridiculous. It's a nice testament to how little players are willing to draw their own conclusions. It's really a shame. You spent most of the day posting walls bordering on SIoA (scumtells instead of analysis....yes, I just made that up now) and other players have seen that and just decided, "hey, look how many scum tells MoI has caught! vote: lane because magna's post says so!" Yeah, I don't actually know how many people voted him because of your walls or referenced your walls with their votes, but I don't really care. You had him on the defensive for more or less the entirety of the day. There comes a point where it's time to stop hunting someone and to actually read them. You never made that transition.

So yeah, there's my theory rant for the day. I'll feel really stupid now if lane is scum, but considering I've slept two and a half hours out of the last 45, I really don't care about that at the moment. Maybe I'll look more closely at lynch candidates before deadline, but with 4 hours (straight) of classes between now and then and sleep rather high up on my current list of priorities, don't count on it.

[DeathRowKitty]

@tcl, but i don't believe him... so we've had two people very close to being lynched... and they both happen to be PRs? but not scum... or townies... I don't see it. But if you're saying its not good to vote a claimed PR even if you dont believe it, why is that?

It's better not to lynch without a counterclaim in an open setup unless you're

really

sure about it. If he's actually the dietician, scum will want to kill him anyway, in which case lynching him is just doing their job for them.

Unvote

This isn't quite going as planned. Best case scenario, someone counterclaims Xalxe and Twistedspoon isn't actually vig and the real vig kills him tonight, but only time will tell.

If it's coming down to lane vs. Friend, it's a bit of a no-brainer to me. Which is good, considering I may or may not have a brain.

Vote: Friend

[DeathRowKitty]

but why would they kill xalxe?

If he's town, every night they don't kill him is another inspection result he gets. When he inevitably does flip (whether by night kill or by lynch), every night they don't kill him is another scum caught or confirmed townie they have to worry about.

[DeathRowKitty]

I'd forgotten about the no reveal NK mechanic. That does potentially complicate things a bit, but it shouldn't change optimal play here.

[DeathRowKitty]

Unofficial Vote Count

lane0168 (6): Xalxe, MagnaofIllusion, DemonHybrid, chesskid3, andrew94, tclawren
Friend (3): Romanus, DeathRowKitty, lane0168
Twistedspoon (1): Friend
singersigner (1): Twistedspoon

Not voting (1): singersigner


We have 35 minutes to deadline and lane is 3 votes up. Singer, if you're around, it's time for you to vote, even if it's not up-to-date on the thread. Twisted, your vote isn't doing anything where it is now. A vote on Friend would be much more useful (pleeeeaaaaaase?).

I discovered while making this post (the vote count part) that andrew's unvote wasn't even off of Xalxe...it was off of Friend. Andrew, do you still think Friend is scum? (If so, that wagon is perfectly viable right now)

I would give tcl a personalized appeal too, but I honestly don't know what to make of him. He's reminding me too much of myself from when I first started playing. That means 2 things:
1. I really want him to be town.
2. I was scum in my first game, so I'm naturally a bit paranoid about him.
(That wasn't particularly game-relevant, but I was a bit stuck strolling down memory lane and figured I'd post that to get it off my mind.)

[DeathRowKitty]

The logic is that lane is omfg obv-town.

[DeathRowKitty]

I do not.

I would normally be screaming and flailing at this point to try to change the lynch, but I honestly have no idea if Friend is scum. I just have trouble imagining a universe in which lane is scum.

[DeathRowKitty]

@chesskid
It's too late now, but given the choice, which players would you have lynched over lane?

[DeathRowKitty]

One death with 3 killers is interesting here. Assuming Twisted didn't shoot Xalxe (which would be pretty stupid), we pretty much have one of two options:
1) Twisted shot the sk.
2) Twisted IS the sk and the vig shot him.

Twisted should claim his target from last night, after which we can decide what to do about it.

[DeathRowKitty]

EBWOP: Assuming vig didn't shoot Xalxe. That may or may not be Twisted.

[DeathRowKitty]

Was there any particular reason for that post, besides wanting to be captain obvious?

Hey, someone might not have thought about it!...but mostly, I just like being Captain Obvious.

[DeathRowKitty]

How about I speak for everyone:

If the roleblocker is not andrew, (s)he did not roleblock twisted.

I feel bad quicklynching singer. The two of us are buds!...even if I won't explain the second mermaid thing to her...

I might actually just not vote her at all and let you guys lynch her. You guys don't mind, right? >_>

[DeathRowKitty]

I also believe DemonHybrid to be scum.

I could see that.

I guess we kind of have to lynch singer. I'm still just not going to vote her though. It doesn't really make a difference.

I feel bad quicklynching singer. The two of us are buds!...even if I won't explain the second mermaid thing to her...

Sure, feel free to let personal feelings get smack dab in the way of Playing to win (assuming you are Town, which I am not at this stage).

You never answered my question about cupcakes

[DeathRowKitty]

Given that DRK was the number one driving force behind wagonning someone other than Friend (who had claimed VT already) or Lane (who had been in jeopardy due to his play) and the result was Xalxe’s being outed and killed I think DRK would be a great choice. Especially since he’s more worried about asking about cupcakes than actually scum-hunting.

You have a very selective memory. Allow me to correct it for you:

I was the main proponent at deadline of trying to get Friend lynched (who had claimed VT already) over lane (WHO WAS FUCKING OBV-TOWN YOU HAD TO BE A COMPLETE IDIOT TO THINK HE COULD POSSIBLY FLIP SCUM). Xalxe got outed because since he's apparently town, he has no idea what constitutes a scum tell and DRK is a terrible choice for a vig shot. And I did my scumhunting day 1. I don't care if it was wrong or not, but I was scumhunting. I was more interested in asking about cupcakes than in answering your bullshit questions, 99% of which DO ABSOLUTELY FRICKIN' NOTHING.

I can turn the tables here if you want.

Given that MoI was the number one driving force behind wagoning lane (THE MOST FUCKING OBV-TOWN PLAYER IN THE ENTIRE FUCKING GAME) and the result was THE LYNCH OF A FUCKING OBV-TOWN PLAYER DAY 1, I think MoI would be a great choice. Especially since he's more concerned with asking stupid questions than actually scum-hunting.

[DeathRowKitty]

(I'm not actually suggesting to vig MoI. I'm just showing how his argument falls apart when you consider REALITY.)

[DeathRowKitty]

Actually, maybe MoI IS scum....it would certainly explain how he could possibly think lane was scum day 1 and why he's making such a crap argument for me to be vigged. -_-

[DeathRowKitty]

Words, words, and more words

If your argument was that I tried to lynch someone I found scummier over someone who had claimed VT, then yes, I did that. You yourself (more than once) included Xalxe in a list of 4 players in which you said there was 1-2 scum. Did you forget that? Are you allowed to find him scummy and I not?

So apparently I misinterpreted you as trying to point out something meaningful. My mistake.

Actually, maybe MoI IS scum....it would certainly explain how he could possibly think lane was scum day 1 and why he's making such a crap argument for me to be vigged. -_-

Lol ... I can turn this around also.

I can't see how you could possibly thing Xalxe was scum Day 1 he SCREAMED Town.

Nice fucking try.

Lolno. You thought Xalxe was scummy. I called lane town ON PAGE 2 and never once backed down from that read. Every single thing lane did day 1 screamed town.

[DeathRowKitty]

Oh, I forgot the closing, sorry.

Nice fucking try.

[DeathRowKitty]

Except lane wasn't even REMOTELY scummy. His play screamed town at the top of its lungs all day and you had your fingers in your ears, screaming repeatedly, "I'M NOT LISTENING, I'M NOT LISTENING, I'M NOT LISTENING"

But to correct you I called Xalxe a lurker. Did I say all the people on the lurkers list were scum? Nope nice try. I said there was AT LEAST 1 in there.

Let's do some MATHEMAGIC. You said there was at least 1, possibly 2 on that list of 4. Let's average that out to 1.5. You were saying there was a 37.5% chance of each one being scum. If you're town, each completely neutral player has a 25% chance. If you're scum, an 8.3% chance (approximately). But even without resorting to numbers, the fact that you specifically pointed out that there was scum in that group implies that you found a greater than average chance of one of them being scum. To attack me for going after Xalxe is lolhypocritical.

Try to spin this however you want – you were instrumental in causing a Dietician claim form Xalxe as opposed to pushing Friend as you CLAIMED to do.

And again, I mistook you for pointing out something meaningful. I pushed the Friend lynch

at deadline

. You were actually accusing me of going after someone I found scummy and you found more likely than average to be scum, since apparently I'm not allowed to use the word "scummy" to describe that in your case.

[DeathRowKitty]

Actually, I want to have a little fun here.

If I called him scummy like Lane and Friend I would have pushed him. As I did both of them. And will you tomorrow if you don't get killed.

If I'm scummy enough to make a case on, do so now. Why do I ask for you to do this? Because I want you to waste your time. I would find that funny because I'm a bad person. Go on, find some quotes from day 1 and everything. It should be fun.

[DeathRowKitty]

Try to spin this however you want – you were instrumental in causing a Dietician claim form Xalxe as opposed to pushing Friend as you CLAIMED to do.

And again, I mistook you for pointing out something meaningful. I pushed the Friend lynch

at deadline

. You were actually accusing me of going after someone I found scummy and you found more likely than average to be scum, since apparently I'm not allowed to use the word "scummy" to describe that in your case.

And while I'm at it, let's get some more on this.

You're saying it was scummy to get a dietician claim from Xalxe, right? Then let me ask you something: do you think I knew ahead of time that Xalxe was dietician? Even if I were scum, that's lulzily ridiculous. So why would you bring up causing a dietician claim as something scummy, hm? Run out of legitimate things to say?

Quote tag fixed.

[DeathRowKitty]

Oooops.

Mod, can you fix the failed quote tag?

(there should be a [quote="DeathRowKitty"] at the start)

[DeathRowKitty]

Wheeeee, let's decompose your post some more while I wait!

I said there was AT LEAST 1 in there. Hey look, I was absolutely right since we know Singer is scum.

It's funny that you think you were furthering your argument with this. You're saying you were right about there being scum in that group of 4 and therefore...what? Therefore, you didn't find people in that group scummy? lololol And just so your ego doesn't get too big and pop, let's assume you're town for a second: do you know the probability of a randomly selected group of 4 players containing at least 1 scum? 74 6/11% Yep! If you're town, you had a 3/4 chance of being right about that! I'm proud of you for picking a group containing scum!

Pre-post Edit: Hey, you responded! But I'm posting this anyway

[DeathRowKitty]

Wow, lovely use of rhetoric. Lane played scummy and was an acceptable lynch. Feel free to keep screaming he was Pro-Town as much as you want. Doesn’t make you correct.

I spent most of day 1 telling you to stop tunneling him. He was in no way an acceptable lynch unless you were looking for a policy lynch. And do you know what he flipped? Surprised?

But let's play a little game: describe for me in one sentence what made him scum. If he was actually scummy, you shouldn't need to nit-pick on individual points to do this.

Lulz. When players lurk scum are going to take advantage of that. Fact. I’d expect you to know this but at this stage I think you are scum arguing just to argue.

So listing players who are potential scum via lurking doesn’t in the slightest mean their behavior in thread when they are here (however limited) is scummy.

Xalxe was far from scummy. Your ‘case’ on him revolved around something stupid about scum-chat. Not compelling at all. But it's hard to build an actual case when you know someone isn't scum, isn't it?

Allow me to define a term for you, since your mafia theory seems to be severely lacking:

scummy

- more likely than average to be scum

You were claiming that that group had a higher than average likelihood to be scum. You were therefore claiming they were scummy. You can hide behind all the bullshit you want about "oh, they were lurking, therefore I couldn't possibly know their alignments!" You're accusing me of going after someone you listed as scummy. End of story.

Actually … I’m accusing you of fake-scum hunting in an effort to find Town PR claims. Which you succeeded at. Bravo, job well done.

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA. OMG. DUDE, DO YOU KNOW HOW AWFUL I AM AS SCUM AT FINDING POWER ROLES? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.

[DeathRowKitty]

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOL

omg I am SERIOUSLY laughing out loud right now. Like, irl. Hahahahahahaha.

But okay, okay, let's continue:

Lulz. When players lurk scum are going to take advantage of that. Fact.

That is practically the definition of scummy behavior. You say that scum are likely to lurk and yet saying there's either 1 or 2 scum in a group of 4 lurkers isn't calling them scummy? Niiiiice try, bud.

[DeathRowKitty]

Wow, you're really bad at this, dude. "But it's hard to build an actual case when you know someone isn't scum, isn't it?"

[DeathRowKitty]

tl;dr:



The apple says MoI is scum.

[DeathRowKitty]

Actually....nvm, I changed my mind.

MoI is actually just really dumb town.

Continue.

[DeathRowKitty]

It doesn't matter whether or not I vote her. I just feel better not doing so (blah blah, personal feelings getting in the way of absolutely nothing)

[DeathRowKitty]

Anyway, MoI, either you can call me really dumb town and we can stop slapfighting or you can bring up more crap against me that I'll either ignore if it's the same ridiculous points or laugh at and refute if it's something new.

Pre-post Edit:

The same result will occur today regardless of whether or not I vote singer and I would rather not do so.

[DeathRowKitty]

the same points over again

Walp, gotta be a man of my word.

@DRK: but

I spent the whole night phase trying to find the SK or mafia, A job which I was successful in doing

and then you don't vote them
rather annoying

Look, I commend you on finding the sk. I really do. It will lead to an sk lynch today, regardless of whether or not I'm on that lynch.

[DeathRowKitty]

I already have my target and I'm not changing it

*sigh*

I'm kind of worried that's going to end up being me because lol, magna posted a lot of useless words about me.

So here you go and I hope you're happy now: I'm the roleblocker. I crumbed it just a bit but probably a bit harder than I meant to:

How about I speak for everyone:

If the roleblocker is not andrew, (s)he did not roleblock twisted.

I roleblocked DemonHybrid last night. It was some combination of PoE and a gut read from a quick skim of the thread, but I suppose the reasons aren't important, considering scum won't be stupid enough to counterclaim me. What's interesting to note from last night's kills is that, assuming my roleblock didn't hit the player making the mafia kill, both mafia and sk went after the dietician, whereas I would expect the mafia team to go after the vig because it's more likely the serial killer will go after the dietician! (dietician inspecting sk = automatically caught, whereas vig targeting sk gives a small chance of not being caught (doesn't know if blocked), plus, more importantly, the sk likes having a vig around so extra players will die, especially when it knows it can survive one shot) I wouldn't be terribly surprised if the mafia kill was blocked. Just saying.

And now, just because I have the opportunity...

Hi MoI. First of all, I would just like to say you're very obviously scum for trying to out me as a PR. Your push of someone that was clearly not scummy led to an unnecessary claim, so you must be. That's how scumhunting works, right? Oh, and just for the future (and I think you'll be needing this advice, though I highly doubt you'll take it), get your head out of your ass. Just because you're too incompetent to read someone (a.k.a. lane) doesn't mean that anyone else competent enough to read him is scum. You may continue to sit there comfortably behind your walls and your "omg i die night 1 so much omgomgomgomgomgomg !!!!", but that really means nothing in an actual game if you don't do shit. If you're town, your contributions so far this game have been
1. getting an obv-town player lynched day 1
2. outing the RB (lolomgomgomgomgwtfbbqscum)
3. drowning the town in useless walls (yes, useless; most of what they do is ask useless questions)

I don't care how tall you are or think you are. If your horse is so high that you can no longer see us, your horse is too high. So get on off it. Please.

[DeathRowKitty]

Unleash the WIFOM. Certainly if you are not the Role-blocker this isn’t an attempt to draw the Real Roleblocker out since you'd fear death as a Goon …

You're kidding, right? Unless you're looking to start a pointless argument, what was the point of this? I'm the roleblocker and I will not be counterclaimed because it would be stupid for scum to counterclaim me. End of story.

Lulz at the insults. Take your own advice – just because you are too incompetent to read someone (aka Xalxe) doesn’t mean that anyone else competent to read him is scum.

This...is bs. You never said Xalxe was town at all. And I said you were town, remember? Or did all that get lost in your ego somewhere?

Similarly your contributions this game have been –

1. outing the Dietician, resulting in getting him killed N1. Yes, getting a Town PR as opposed to lynching a VT.
2. drowning the Town in pointless discussion about cupcakes and your personal game theory.

I made like 3 posts about cupcakes and they didn't significantly detract from the game in any way. As for game theory, I bring it up when it's relevant and only as a side feature to other points. And yes, I outed the dietician. Now we're even.

You should know about High Horses since you’ve been on yours all game regarding your superiority of play-style and reads.

Huh? I'm pretty sure the only play style I've attacked is yours and that's because you seem to think you're some sort of god or something. I've never once said my play style was good.

[DeathRowKitty]

@MoI
You take the game so seriously Lighten up! It's why I was asking you about cupcakes...you never answered my cupcake question btw. I'm still interested in your answer.

In the interest of not taking the game too far off track, you never responded to (imo) the most important part of my claim post:

What's interesting to note from last night's kills is that, assuming my roleblock didn't hit the player making the mafia kill, both mafia and sk went after the dietician, whereas I would expect the mafia team to go after the vig because it's more likely the serial killer will go after the dietician! (dietician inspecting sk = automatically caught, whereas vig targeting sk gives a small chance of not being caught (doesn't know if blocked), plus, more importantly, the sk likes having a vig around so extra players will die, especially when it knows it can survive one shot) I wouldn't be terribly surprised if the mafia kill was blocked. Just saying.

What do you think of that?

[DeathRowKitty]

Mod, prod DeathRowKitty, please

[DeathRowKitty]

Uhhh.....summary for anyone that doesn't want to read the argument:

The two plans lead to the same number of possible suspects dead and the same number of useful flips. MoI's plan has the advantage of an extra day of discussion. chesskid's has the advantage of getting the useful flip a day earlier.

You may now continue your arguing.

[DeathRowKitty]

ani is scum

I was so right about romanus

Sounds about right. You done well.

[DeathRowKitty]

Moi vs DRK = Moi winer

[sic]

, chess vis

[sic]

DH = DH winner. Get it? Got it? Good.

I suddenly feel twice as confident that I won that

But anyway, I'd be surprised if I never told you this on the basis of play style alone, but I'm now telling you on the basis of your play specifically for this game: you'd make a great vig shot. A++. Would shoot if vig.

[DeathRowKitty]

Only one death, eh?

Vote: TheJakalope

Three guesses who I roleblocked.

[DeathRowKitty]

I will probably be blocking ani tonight, assuming this isn't game over (Twisted can tell us whether or not it is).

[DeathRowKitty]

In an open setup in which the only other power role is an outed vig? So there are 3 options:

1) I blocked the kill.
2) Scum decided to bypass killing the claimed vig or claimed RB in favor of killing a rather neutral-looking player.
3) Scum decided to nokill with an outed vig and RB.


Out of options 2 and 3, which do you think occurred?

[DeathRowKitty]

Also, I would like to point out that your last post eliminated your option to fakeclaim roleblocker.

[DeathRowKitty]

See, that 4th doesn't work in an open setup. It means I just bypassed killing the claimed (and confirmed) vig for basically no benefit. If I were scum, I would be counterclaimed today no matter what. This way, I would just be ensuring that I'm vig-killed tonight (this setup actually has a built-in way to handle roleblocker counterclaims once the vig is outed: have the vig publicly declare which claimed roleblocker he will shoot and tell that roleblocker to block him).

Scenario 5 also doesn't make sense and was my scenario 2.

[DeathRowKitty]

And yes, we know that the vig killed because he said he was going to kill and had a target. Also, tcl would be a terrible scum kill, given the two exposed power roles.

We can just ask Twisted though.

[DeathRowKitty]

So here's what it comes down to. Either I don't get counterclaimed, we lynch TheJakalope, and his buddy is stuck in a 7p with a confirmed vig and roleblocker OR his buddy counterclaims me, we lynch me (I won't get in the way of progress), vig the counterclaimant (which TheJakalope has already ensured won't be him), and lynch TheJakalope tomorrow gg.

[DeathRowKitty]

He didn't claim who it was, but it really doesn't matter. He claimed that he would be killing and there's no way scum killed tcl too.

[DeathRowKitty]

Here, for reference:

I'm not shooting singer again, so you might as well lynch her today to prevent any more damage being done.

I have my target and I'm not shooting singer again
She's for the lynch

[DeathRowKitty]

I'm cool with that.

[DeathRowKitty]

Okay, cool.

So scum didn't kill tcl.

Lynch on TheJakalope = gg

[DeathRowKitty]

Jakalope, this is the part where you counterclaim Twistedspoon 4 teh lulz

and yes TS, you are awesome

[DeathRowKitty]

Anywayz, Jakalope needs to claim and then I has stuffs to post.

[DeathRowKitty]

Okay, I'm actually not going to wait for Jakalope to post just in case he gets lynched too quickly.

I went back to check my PMs and I apparently forgot that I changed my target to tcl. -_- I actually initially sent in the block on Friend, then sent a second PM to change the name to the correct player, then changed my mind and changed my block to tcl >.<

Give me a minute to get over my fail and I'll post something a bit more substantial about my thought process....

[DeathRowKitty]

Ughh, sorry about that....

Unvote: TheJakalope

I actually failed even harder than it sounds in terms of memory. I sent in my initial block on Friend for...I don't remember what reason. I then decided I didn't like my reads and went back and reread....the first two pages. I decided based on the first two pages that the scum were tcl and dmsis (now ani), with DH as scum if either of them were town. I have the list I used in front of me. It's not particularly informative:

lane

andrew

DRK

DH

Twisted

Xalxe

chess

Roman
tcl

singer

MoI

Friend

Basically, I went through the list of all players, crossed out dead players and myself, and then crossed out names as they made town-looking posts (in the first couple of pages only). I didn't find anything particularly town-looking from DH, but I also (if memory serves me correctly) didn't see anything scummy from him, whereas I saw tcl and dmsis make scummy posts. I figured that, if those two were scum, tcl would make the kill, since I had said I was suspicious of ani. At this point, I changed my block to tcl.

The real kicker here is that, after I revised my reads, Jakalope wasn't even under consideration to be blocked so I don't know how I managed to forgot I changed my block.

tl;dr: I forgot my reads in literally 2 RL days.

[DeathRowKitty]

Vote: animorpherv1

Sticking with this.

[DeathRowKitty]

3. chesskid3 (replaces mockingjaye)
4. animorpherv1 (replaces Romanus* who replaced drmyshottyizsik)

Yeah, Jakalope was Friend. I just originally sent in the block on Friend and then realized he was replaced >.> I'm bad with remembering replacements.

[DeathRowKitty]

Probably not, but let's see...

1. Twistedspoon
3. chesskid3 (replaces mockingjaye)
4. animorpherv1 (replaces Romanus* who replaced drmyshottyizsik)
5. andrew94
7. DeathRowKitty
10. DemonHybrid
11. MagnaofIllusion
12. TheJakalope (replaces Friend*)

Lynch ani today. If he's town, I block...I don't know, Jakalope, let's say and you kill DH (that's just an example). If they're both town, we have:

3. chesskid3 (replaces mockingjaye)
5. andrew94
7. DeathRowKitty
11. MagnaofIllusion
12. TheJakalope (replaces Friend*)

with me and Jakalope confirmed. Lynch andrew. If he's town, I block Magna. If they're both town:

3. chesskid3 (replaces mockingjaye)
11. MagnaofIllusion
12. TheJakalope (replaces Friend*)

with chesskid confirmed scum...so scum actually would have to nokill the final night in order to avoid that.

So we don't quiiiite have a definite win, but I think we have a definite 4p with 2 confirmed if we action different people.

[DeathRowKitty]

I can't see a scum role replacing out twice

usually players enjoy playing as scum much more than VT

thus, i find it hard to see ani as scum

Well, VT is the most common role to replace out of, but there's really little to no bias in whether town or scum replace out more.

Also, shotty replaced out of all his games at that time, so it had nothing to do with this game in particular. Not sure about Romanus, but either way, replacing out isn't exactly a tell.

[DeathRowKitty]

Also I still want Shotty to realize that what he said was suspicious. So I will vote for him at least until he comes back.
VOTE: Shotty

Interesting....

[DeathRowKitty]

If you are really who you say then why are you still on Friend? Why not switch to chesskid? The logic for a possible chesskid lynch coming from your viewpoint actually makes more sense. (basically chess can kill, I am vig Q.E.D. chess is scum. Your case against Friend: He doesn't back up his town reads and does them a lot.) Which case sounds more sound to you?

Also worth noting.

As per your possible bus there, I would lean no on that. After being called out on something, the last thing I would expect scum to want to do is link to a buddy.

[DeathRowKitty]

This is going to seem a bit WIFOM-y, but looking at the start of the day, Jakalope seems very under-informed for scum. If he were scum, I would expect the QT last night to be all sorts of discussion about which power role was going to target who and which was more important to take out and Jakalope seemed to have no idea what was going on. Town points for that.

[DeathRowKitty]

Lol, I keep forgetting they have day talk

That doesn't really change anything here though. If Jakalope were scum, upon replacing in, I would expect his first QT post to be

"HEYYYYYY BUDDYYYYYYYY

WHAT'S HAPPENED SO FAR THIS GAME?"

And I really don't see how they would decide on a night kill without discussing the power role situation. It just wouldn't make any sense.

[DeathRowKitty]

so where's the evidence that

Jakalope seemed to have no idea what was going on. Town points for that.

Read his first few posts of the day. He really seems to have no idea what's going on with the setup.

[DeathRowKitty]

Well, I said first few posts "of the day", so start from here

I agree he's not today's lynch though.

[DeathRowKitty]

@andrew
Your situation is right except the final part. Mafia won't kill in 4p night because it would lose the game for them.

So we're guaranteed to make it to 4p with 2 confirmed players.

[DeathRowKitty]

You've been right 2 straight nights. You deserve your moment of glory.



You done well.

[DeathRowKitty]

Yes, I roleblocked tcl.

If we're scumhunting based on who I was more likely to roleblock than tcl, that does knock chesskid out (I still think he's town btw). People scum would expect me to be likely to block would probably be Friend, DH, and ani probably.

Not sure why ani's saying I "forgot" his meta, when I don't think he's ever played a game I've been in with him to completion (I seem to remember being in two games with him, both of which he replaced out early).

If we can (correctly) agree on one town player, we might actually be able to auto-win from here, even in the worst-case scenario. Just throwing that out there now.

[DeathRowKitty]

If we're going to start planning night actions out, we should plan them out to vig/lynch the weaker players and roleblock the stronger players. Players that get roleblocked during a night in which there is a kill are clear and we'll want any confirmeds we get to be strong players.

[DeathRowKitty]

Scum can't no kill. Let's say we lynch ani today and he's town, you kill a townie, and I roleblock a townie. Scum no kill. That brings it down to 6 players. We lynch the framed townie, bringing it down to 5 players, with me and you confirmed. I roleblock an unconfirmed, you vig an unconfirmed. One of us gets killed (you, presumably). That brings it down to 3p...one of which is me and one of which is the townie I just confirmed. gg If scum skip a second kill, that brings us into 4p with me, you, the townie I just "cleared", and another unconfirmed. I block one unconfirmed, you kill the other, gg.

[DeathRowKitty]

Scum can't no kill. Let's say we lynch ani today and he's town, you kill a townie, and I roleblock a townie. Scum no kill. That brings it down to 6 players. We lynch the framed townie, bringing it down to 5 players, with me and you confirmed. I roleblock an unconfirmed, you vig an unconfirmed. One of us gets killed (you, presumably). That brings it down to 3p...one of which is me and one of which is the townie I just confirmed. gg If scum skip a second kill, that brings us into 4p with me, you, the townie I just "cleared", and another unconfirmed. I block one unconfirmed, you kill the other, gg.

that makes sense

so have we won then?

If so you won't mind (nor will you chess) If i vig chesskid tonight eh?

It's possible for scum to win, but pretty damned hard at this point.

In order for scum to win, as far as I can tell, both of us have to be wrong every night and scum have to get into a 4 player endgame with 2 players confirmed. Take into account the fact that scum have no control over their kills (they almost have to use their two remaining kills on us) and we can basically handpick the final players (assuming we don't hit scum in doing so, of course).

[DeathRowKitty]

Okay, I'm going to break down the possibilities here:

Spoiler: Possible Game Paths

Just to keep things simple, I'm going to label the player list generically.

vig
roleblocker
A
B
C
D
E
F

Let's say we lynch from the bottom of this lynch. That means F dies today, leaving us with the two of us, A, B, C, D, and E. Scum can't no kill, so they have two choices: kill you or kill me (or kill someone else, but that just screws them over later). Let's start with the path where they kill you. So you kill E, who turns out to be a townie and I block D, who is also a townie. Player list going into day 4 looks like this:

roleblocker
A
B
C
D (clear)

We lynch C, who turns out to be a townie, and I plan to roleblock B, leaving the following going into night:

roleblocker
A
B (being blocked)
D (clear)

I can't be killed here. If I am, A is automatically scum. In fact, if anyone dies, A is automatically scum, so scum will no kill here ad infinitum, leaving us with a 4p involving myself, A, B, and a clear D. The thing to note in this situation is that, of the 4 kills that have occurred up to this point, only one was controlled by scum (two were lynches and one was a vig kill). The one kill that was controlled by scum was on you (so not on a valid suspect). The point here is that, in this scenario, we get to handpick 2 players we want to take into the final day, along with one scummy player that's been cleared by a roleblock.


The other possibility is if scum kill me tonight:

vig
A
B
C
D (clear)

In this case, you lynch a player. Let's say it's C and he's a townie. You then go into night with

vig
A
B
D (clear)

and you're left with your choice of vig shot from A and B. As in the last example, only one kill was controlled by scum and it was on me (so not on a valid suspect). Basically, as in the last example, we just need to pick out one town player and leave him alive and it's game over.

tl;dr: We just need to not be idiots here.

[DeathRowKitty]

So we need to pick out 2 lynches, a vig shot, and a roleblock target There will be one additional lynch/vig shot after that. If any of those 5 actions are on scum, we win (and we only have 6 choices).

[DeathRowKitty]

^ still town

[DeathRowKitty]

what, for saying MoI is town?

you shall see, my fine feathered friend

Basically, the way the game will play out, all we need to do is choose one town player and never action or lynch them and we can't lose. He basically just voted for MoI to be that player.

I'm fine with chesskid not being that sole survivor, but I would prefer to block him tonight if anything tbh. I would rather have him around in an important potential late-game situation as confirmed town than....some of our other options.

[DeathRowKitty]

I would rather have him around in an important potential late-game situation as confirmed town than....some of our other options.

and singersinger was a very good, clever player to have in LyLo situations too

but that didn't stop her having a scum role

If we choose to block him tonight and there's no kill, he's confirmed as scum (or if scum no killed, someone else will be confirmed as scum the next day). If there's a kill, he'll be confirmed town in a potential mylo situation.

[DeathRowKitty]

i feel safer just vig'ing him tbh

I know you want a perfect vigging record but...take one for the team? :s

I mean, we can have DH as the confirmed player instead if you want. The best use of our roleblock right now is to block a player we don't agree on as town that would be an asset if he turns out to be town. Don't lose sight of that.

[DeathRowKitty]

andrew is probably town

Let's not lynch him today.

[DeathRowKitty]

Andrew is town on the basis that he was voted for by Tclaw?

It was who tcl decided to vote at deadline when it looked like the final wagons of the day might be forming. Seems risky in a game with 2 mafia out of 13 players, one of which is an sk.

Of course, that could point to Friend being scum (tcl defended him pretty hard), but meh. I do think andrew is town (town who should probably be lynched tomorrow, but town nonetheless).

My top scum read is still ani and he does need to die at some point, preferably before a potential game-deciding lynch.

[DeathRowKitty]

TS, you're kiiiiind of tunneling here...

chesskid is suggesting a plan under which it would be impossible for him to win if he were scum. I would really rather just block him tonight if we lynch wrong today, but I won't stop you if you're deadset on killing him.

[DeathRowKitty]

fine, i'll comply with you, DRK; but if we lose this game to chesskid scum then...

As long as we hit him with one of those 5 actions (1 RB, 1-2 vig shots, 2-3 lynches), he can't win if he's scum. I'll block him tonight if we lynch wrong today. If he's scum, he can't win <3

[DeathRowKitty]

happy now DRK & Chess

Happy is a bit of a strong word, but I am certainly satisfied by the current state of affairs.

And I'll be careful to make sure I submit the right target

[DeathRowKitty]

so we know our RB for tonight.

any preference who I vig tonight? I'm sure they'll all flip town

Your choice out of the remaining, pretty much. I would suggest DH, personally, but your choice.

[DeathRowKitty]

Lynch ani (sorry mate :'( )
vig DH
RB Chess

correct?

and you will certainly be lynching chesskid if the DH kill is the only one N3, yes? Don't let him try to crawl out of it :p

If the DH kill is the only kill tonight, you'll still be around tomorrow. You can hammer him yourself if he's scum.

[DeathRowKitty]

(or we can no lynch and let you vig him )

[DeathRowKitty]

@TS
Looks a lot more like scum defending town than scum defending scum to me vOv

[DeathRowKitty]

I think that's hammer actually.

me
you
twisted
magna
DH

[DeathRowKitty]

Thanks!

[DeathRowKitty]

Technically, you're fine as long as you don't eat chesskid.

Doesn't really matter what ani posted today. Would have been nice to get more out of Jakalope, I guess, but it probably doesn't matter. We can have him post anything he needs to get off his chest tomorrow if there is one.

[DeathRowKitty]

Regardless of who the mafia kills (as long as it's me or twisted), we only need to be right about one player (the one player we don't lynch/action).

Also, DH's posting is looking scummy fwiw.

OMG I CAN'T POST WITHOUT GETTING NINJA'D

[DeathRowKitty]

(if there's a day 4)

[DeathRowKitty]

I can't see why you didn't take the DH approach though chesskid

I'd die for the benefit of the town and such

It'd have been far easier, at least for me

and to be fair, I'd probably not have vig'd you

I still don't see how chesskid's approach was scummier than DH's...

chesskid proposed a plan in which he would auto-lose if he were scum.

DH was A LOT more hesitant-sounding and WIFOM-y in what he said.

[DeathRowKitty]

P

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1

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[DeathRowKitty]

Sorry, had to get that out of my system >_>

@DRK: If ani flips VT (and DH too if you want) then who will your top suspect be (ignoring Chesskid's RB)

Jakalope

[DeathRowKitty]

Hey, town won! Wheeeeeeee

@TS
We were just as annoyed at you in the Dead QT for shooting andrew as chesskid was in the thread But it all worked out well. ^5 for awesome power role team!

I did... didn't give me a much better answer. Plus I get hers a bit more I have a feeling I was a neutral read and at that point she was basically a cop so it kinda makes sense.

My answer was probably worse than TS's, but I definitely shot you thinking you were scum.

When I'm choosing who to target with a power role (except the final night where I targeted chess as soon as the thread was locked and refused to look at the thread again so I wouldn't change my mind), I always base it on a readthrough that was done specifically with the intention of choosing a target. The fact that I don't have to justify reads in order to target them (as opposed to votes), I'm much more likely to find something and roll with it, instead of WIFOMing myself out of it. In the case of your block, my read was solely of the first 2 or 3 pages, but honestly, I love using the first few pages of a game. vOv

[DeathRowKitty]

Errr...change "shot" to "blocked"

[DeathRowKitty]

Dead QT

[DeathRowKitty]

omg I just read the mafia QT xD

DH, that was hilarious!

[DeathRowKitty]

Meh, my day 1 was all over the place. And I didn't vig 2 scum

[DeathRowKitty]

Tbh, I was planning on not playing any more when my current games finished, but judging by past experience, that's not gonna happen. Plus, I already ruined that by signing up to IC a newbie game, but I would like to think that that's different. >_>

[DeathRowKitty]

Such a cannibal!

[DeathRowKitty]

their reads were top notch, and I believe, in DRK's case, 100% accurate -- I don't recall any of her posted reads ever being wrong.

My day 1 reads were all over the place. >_> I changed my day 1 read on Friend like 4 different times xD

[DeathRowKitty]

^ thanks for modding yo

^ and this

[DeathRowKitty]

<3