Mini1147-Royal Mafia at the Round Table (Game Over!)

Rhinox · Post Post #3 (isolation #0) » Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:36 am

Whoa, deja vu ITT.

isn't this the time we start voting the mod?

vote: neil

Rhinox · Post Post #13 (isolation #1) » Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:07 am

Twistedspoon wrote:actually, nvm
day 1 hasn't officially started yet

silly twisted spoon

I like the enthusiasm though!

neil1113 wrote:
I'm not scummy I tell ya! I'm town!!!!

Thats what they all say!

Rhinox · Post Post #16 (isolation #2) » Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:59 am

Maxous wrote:Do I get brownie points for not voting the moderator? Cause I'm cool like that 8)

Oh, and Hi all!

Nope refusing to partake in the random mod-voting stage is scummy! EGMEOY!

Rhinox · Post Post #25 (isolation #3) » Thu Mar 31, 2011 12:13 am

/Inb4 juls votes me again!

vote juls

Rhinox · Post Post #36 (isolation #4) » Thu Mar 31, 2011 4:42 am

Thanks for the birthday wishes and votes everyone <3

Juls is voting me again, all is right in the world.

Rhinox · Post Post #38 (isolation #5) » Thu Mar 31, 2011 4:47 am

interesting theory, but I'm more interested in this:

/inb4:But Juls and farside are doing something similar, why not vote one of them? They aren't. Missing the vote/countervote component. Their back and forth is not attempt at distancing.

Why are you anticpating responses/questions? IME, this is something I see scum do when they're trying to cover all their bases.

unvote, vote Oso

Rhinox · Post Post #40 (isolation #6) » Thu Mar 31, 2011 4:58 am

Why not just wait until someone brings it up then?

Rhinox · Post Post #43 (isolation #7) » Thu Mar 31, 2011 5:12 am

Well your personal choice sends me a message that you've spent time thinking about ways others could poke holes in your theory and/or accuse you of being inconsistent - that is very much a scum way of thinking, trying to make sure you don't look suspicious.

Preview edit: ok but my point still stands. And for the record, upon reading your post I didn't even think to draw a parallel between EA and Ender, and Juls and Farside, and wouldn't have thought to ask the question you pre-emptively answered.

From a town perspective, letting others ask the questions even IF they're obvious brings about more discussion which is good for scum hunting. Answering the questions you anticipate in advance shuts off the conversation opportunity for a selfish, scummy reason - trying to make sure you cover your bases so no one finds you suspicious.

Rhinox · Post Post #45 (isolation #8) » Thu Mar 31, 2011 5:34 am

Fair enough explanation, oso. But EGMEOU still.

Farside,

farside22 wrote:
vote: juls

I feel I can read you the best and earlier pressure on you will tell me your alignment.

I'm interested to know what about early pressure on juls will help you figure out her alignment, and how much pressure you expect her to feel if you basically say you're voting for pressure. In other words, if she's scum, do you think she can control her response to pressure since you tipped her off as to what you're looking for?

Rhinox · Post Post #51 (isolation #9) » Thu Mar 31, 2011 6:04 am

Twistedspoon wrote:
Rhinox wrote:Fair enough explanation, oso. But EGMEOU still.
EGMEOU?

what juls said

Oso wrote:I'm unavailable for most of the rest of the day but I would like to point folks at Erratus' vote post here:
Erratus Apathos wrote:..
Ender tells us to "have no fear". Having no fear in this game is tantamount to letting your guard down. Why do you want us to let our guard down, Ender?
VOTE: ender241
and think on it. Or comment. Or don't. But any input would be welcome. What got me the most about it was it doesn't seem to be an RVS vote but it is the first 'real' post of the game so by definition, it can't be anything other than a joke/RVS vote. But it's not a joke or RVS vote. Look at the way it's worded.

The post itself is a contradiction.

Well I don't think its distancing, because no one is ever going to buy an argument later in the game that 2 players aren't scum because they "random" voted each other. It could be scum partners just messing around in plain site, but I see no reason to suspect that given that town players also mess around with each other for various reasons in the RVS. So at best its null for now, but I'll be watching to see how they continue to interact with each other.

preview edit: thanks juls

<3

Rhinox · Post Post #75 (isolation #10) » Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:55 am

farside22 wrote:Rhinox post 38 I do this all the time no matter my alignment. How often do you see scum do this? What about players that are town?

Post 43 I get your reasoning on why it's scummy, I guess I just don't think about it in terms of covering my ass.
post 45
Funny enough when I do an RVS vote I don't roll a dice. I either pick a person who is a VI or someone I played with when I can't find a VI.
It's part seeing how they react to my comment and part just plain RVS with a purpose. I look at how they respond, if they respond, panic, non panic, casual, joking. It just gives me ideas that I put to the side and think about throughout the game.

I probably couldn't give you specific examples either way. Just in general, it sticks out to me as trying to make sure you don't seem scummy, which is a scum attitude moreso than a town attitude.

Regarding RVS, yeah I get all that just wondering specifically to this situation, If I'm juls, and you tell me you can read me based on early pressure and then vote me, if I'm scum I'm going to be thinking about that and changing the way I react to make sure you don't figure me out. So I'm just wondering if you really earnestly were trying to use your vote to get a read on juls. Did her reaction to your vote tell you anything about her alignment?

-----

Prosaurus wrote:
Javert wrote:
Klazam Post 21 wrote: Hey all, how much experience do you have?
Highly experienced.

Vote: Prosaurus
. Last to confirm, and already lurking. Scumbag in the bag.

Fixed.
Let me put this out there: Go to sleep. Get up. Go to school. Go to hockey practice. Walk home.
It takes a while
I can tell. This will be a looooooooong game for me.

Pretty sure Javert was just joking to make a RVS vote. Are you paranoid?

Prosaurus wrote:
Twistedspoon wrote:
Juls wrote: I think it was IGMEOU = I got my eye on u. Having trouble entering the conversation twisted? How do you feel about the interactions between ender/erathos? me/farside? rhinox/oso?
yeah, thought it was IGMEOU
just seemed strange since I read EGMEOU twice
nevermind though

as for oso I see nothing particularly odd as of yet. I thought that He justified his reason and gave a counter-argument to support it. However I do realise that it isn't the strongest of finds from Oso, especially since it's so early in the game. It's a null tell for Oso, ender and erathos in my opinion

it's nice to see players like Rhinox and yourself are alert and reading carefully though. That's always a good sign. Like I say, the sooner RVS end the better
Only real post I see (Contains more than fluff). Don't find it scummy. BTW, what's IGMEOU? Can't find it on the wiki.

Did you just skim? There were real posts before this one that contained more than fluff. Why single this one out to sort of randomly say you don't find it scummy? What don't you find scummy?

IGMEOU = I've got my eye on you. Just an expression of suspicion, not a wiki acronym like WIFOM, OMGUS, etc.

Rhinox · Post Post #105 (isolation #11) » Sat Apr 02, 2011 5:07 am

limited access until tomorrow evening

Skipping eh? Haha noted.

Rhinox · Post Post #106 (isolation #12) » Sat Apr 02, 2011 5:16 am

juls wrote:Rhinox - What's your take on Me=Weird? TwistedSpoon?

I don't have a strong opinion of them either way. Why did you specifically ask me about those 2 players?

Rhinox · Post Post #178 (isolation #13) » Mon Apr 04, 2011 3:27 am

Back. Read through the posts I missed once but I do need some time to process.

I noticed Javert claimed day vig. Probably a gambit. I'm not too concerned about it if its not, as it seems like his shot would not end the day or change the number to lynch causing an inadvertant hammer.

I don't understand the reasoning for sudden wagon on ender. maybe I'll figure it out in the processing, but if someone can give me the bullet point run down I'd apreciate it.

Rhinox · Post Post #182 (isolation #14) » Mon Apr 04, 2011 4:58 am

ender, why is Javert town if he's bluffing/gambiting/lying/whatever?

Is he town if he does have a day kill?

Rhinox · Post Post #185 (isolation #15) » Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:11 am

Rhinox wrote:ender, why is Javert
town
scum if he's bluffing/gambiting/lying/whatever?

Is he town if he does have a day kill?

is what I meant to say.

Rhinox · Post Post #211 (isolation #16) » Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:59 am

M=W wrote:Why do you think it would be a gambit? What would the point be?
If you want to find out why we're voting ender maybe you should read our posts?

Juls wrote:A scum gambit or town gambit? Why would we do that would little pressure on him at all? I didn't assume gambit but I rarely, if ever, gambit myself.

Its becoming more common on site for players to make a claim on d1 with the justification to gauge reactions or spur discussion. I don't consider it an alignment tell. Maybe I'm wrong, but precisely because there was little pressure on Javert, makes me think gambit. I'd prefer not to go into more than this right now until we know for sure whether it is a gambit or whether there really is a day kill.

Twisted wrote:question: in theory might it be possible to have a daykill scum?

I've seen it in a theme game before.

M=W wrote:If you want to find out why we're voting ender maybe you should read our posts?

If you want me to understand why you're voting ender, maybe you should learn to type clearly and concisely. (see, I can do snark too)

I've read some reasons. Everyone seems to have different reasons. Ender seems to be the "easy target", but not necessarily scum.

@Ender, why were you so anxious to claim your role?

@Prosaurus: Why did you ask ender to claim in post 197?

@Twisted: Why are you always so interested in asking/speculating about other's roles?

First example:

Twistedspoon wrote:
Prosaurus wrote: I don't mind being Day Killed,
why might this be?

What answer were you expecting? I can't help but draw a parallel to this question by you and the accusation you made against Javert in this post

Actually, paying more attention to your iso, every post you've made from iso 11 to your current post iso 17, each and every one of those posts, the main topic of your post is speculating about someone's role.

-----------------------

Prosaurus wrote:
ender241 wrote:Sadly, i can only use it at night. Because i am going for Javert investigation, would it be safe to say that i would only be killed if Javert was scum? Or would the scum just kill me anyway to make Javert look suspicious.?
Here's a tip: Don't. First of all, him using his kill today would be enough proof. Secondly, He'll probably be night killed because of his claim.
I see no reason to investigate him unless his day kill is not used as promised.

These 2 posts make me sad for mafiascum.

----------------------

Oso wrote:I would say I don't know what to think of that except I do. I think it smells. If scum, he only has to sell one innocent that can easily be killed later. He doesn't get caught in the confirming more townies than scum can kill loop.

No offense to ender but I seriously doubt he's capable of thinking that far ahead as town or scum.

Rhinox · Post Post #214 (isolation #17) » Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:20 am

ender241 wrote:
Rhinox wrote:

@Ender, why were you so anxious to claim your role?

-----------------------

Prosaurus wrote:
ender241 wrote:Sadly, i can only use it at night. Because i am going for Javert investigation, would it be safe to say that i would only be killed if Javert was scum? Or would the scum just kill me anyway to make Javert look suspicious.?
Here's a tip: Don't. First of all, him using his kill today would be enough proof. Secondly, He'll probably be night killed because of his claim.
I see no reason to investigate him unless his day kill is not used as promised.
These 2 posts make me sad for mafiascum.

1) I did it because i thought people might want me to as i accidently claimed earlier and i thought it would be easier than people having speculations.

2) I knew the answer to that, but i thought it may have been able to draw out scum.

1) I accept that you think you were doing the right thing by claiming. But, IMO, better to leave the scum guessing. Nobody was demanding your claim. A few were refuting your case. We didn't needed to know your role yet. There are scum hiding in those who are speculating.
2) If you think a player is scum, the answer is to get them lynched. Not investigate them. That is all.

Rhinox · Post Post #219 (isolation #18) » Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:43 am

I understand now, ender.

unvote, vote Twistedspoon

Rhinox · Post Post #228 (isolation #19) » Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:29 am

Maxous wrote:@:Rhinox: Why is Ender an "easy target"?
And who are the scum that are speculating on his role?(in your opinion)

He just reads as that typical scummy looking townie in every game that is easy to attack and doesn't defend himself well. Easy for scum to go after. Low hanging fruit. My vote should tell you who I suspect for speculating.

In general, those were a couple weak questions IMO. Why did you ask them?

Rhinox · Post Post #237 (isolation #20) » Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:43 pm

I suggest we park a noose around Twistedscum's neck.

Agreed.

@Maxous: PATIENCE! lets take care of obv scum twistedspoon first, then we can work out which one of {

Javert

, Oso, farside22, Me=Weird, Necessary Evil} were scum on the easy to wagon ender. EA and ender are both town btw.

Question for you - why do the actions you are accusing EA and ender of make them scummy? In my experience, those things are not really things I see scum partners do, like, ever.

Rhinox · Post Post #249 (isolation #21) » Thu Apr 07, 2011 2:53 am

maxous wrote:I think thier are scummy because I think they are mafia actions, no other reason.

*sigh* I was asking you WHY you think they are mafia actions...

Klazam wrote:I'm ambivalent on TS. Null for now.

vote Me=Weird

You singled out M=W and PS for rolefishing. You iso'd TS, what do you think about TS's iso basically #11 through #17?

Rhinox · Post Post #284 (isolation #22) » Fri Apr 08, 2011 4:34 am

Farside wrote:Why say this, then not follow up with Maxous questions to you?
Instead you go back to TS as scum. What reason do you believe TS is scum?

Because Maxous was confused (or I am). This is what Maxous said:

@Rhinox: Because you called Ender an 'easy target' for scum to go after, but you never said who the scum are. Who is the opportunistic mafia?
TS was'nt voting for him(I think?)

But I didn't vote TS for being opportunistic, I voted TS for other reasons. I made a comment that ender was an easy target, but I wasn't ready to examine the ender wagon yet and look for if there was any opportunistic scum there or not (some town players lock on to easy wagons too!). I wanted to focus on TS, but max seems to think or imply that my TS vote doesn't make sense because it doesn't stem from the easy target ender premise. But rather it stems from the role speculating premise mentioned a few posts before.

I think you hit most of the reasons why I believe TS is scum in a later post.

Farside wrote:Rhinox: Where is your town read of EA coming from?

From staying away from the ender wagon and pushing TS. And lots of good scumhunting throughout his posts.

--------------------

Klazam wrote:These are iso 11-17. I dont see anything scummy here. Asking whether the investigation is night or day, i think is a good question, unlike asking if he was one-shot. He asked Javert why his claim occurred at that time, which is a fair question.

That's all of substance i could find in these. Rhinox, would you mind explaining to me why you pointed out these posts?

So you don't see #12 as role fishing, or how about

#16: To a townie, whether a 1-shot investigation is day or night doesn't matter, but to a scum role blocker for example, it would be beneficial to know.

(bolded to stand out for importance). And all the other speculating in every one of those posts is in itself a form of indirect role fishing, even 14 where he accuses someone else of role fishing then says "what did you expect etc..." it says A) he's already been thinking about what enders softclaim meant and pointed it out in thread and B) answering the "What did you expect" question just leads to more role speculation all around.

-------------------

Oso's slip on M=W is interesting, but given the soft claim I think I accept M=W explaination. It is weird that he specifically used 1-shot in his example when at the time he only would have reason to infer "cop" with no knowledge of shot. But I can fill in the blanks myself so I'm not too worried about it.

Reading further:

Oso wrote:The only real problem I have with it is that he specifically used "1-Shot Cop". That piece of information wasn't available to him when he asked Javert the question. But I can stretch that, without too much trouble, to being a player thinking a soft-claim is a cop claim and having that thinking confirmed. "1-Shot Cop" replaces "Cop" in his thinking.

I swear I didn't read this before I wrote the above. Weird.

------------------

Farside wrote:Rhinox: The question you ask to TS about asking/specualing others roles. EA asked the same question as TS. Why point out TS and not EA?

I saw it, but TS was in general more interested in roles as you point out later in your post. It wasn't just that one question I was referring to when I asked TS about speculating about roles.

-----------------

NE wrote:@Rhinox: So you think ender is town based on his meta. How can we tell if he is scum?

No, I've mentioned nothing of meta. I don't believe I've ever played with ender before. The comments I made regarding him are based on play in this game only.

NE wrote:Anybody on that list {
Javert
, Oso, farside22, Me=Weird, Necessary Evil} sticking out to you at the moment?

I'm still interested in Oso, but I haven't really looked into the rest of you too much. Oso's been looking better though, and Javert's vanishing act maybe lightens the strikeout a little bit.

----------------

Juls wrote:@Rhinox: In post 211 you ask prosaurus why he asked ender to claim. Why not ask me that question? In the post directly above I had told ender to claim.

Pros stuck out because he didn't say he wanted ender to claim bc he thought he was scummy or anything, he was more egging him on. You gave your reasons why you wanted ender to claim right in the post, so why would I need to ask you why you wanted ender to claim? I already had the answer.

---------------

Alright I'm caught back up. Just want to say I like the activity, but damn this game has like ADD or something - seems like its going in a million different directions at the same time. Not necessarily a bad thing, just hard to keep everything straight.

I do like the twisted wagon/lynch. If we're treating L-2 as L-1, and it seems others are also happy with the direction of the TS wagon, then I think we're ready for a claim and/or Javert getting his ass back in here and doing his thing so we can get on to lynching.

Rhinox · Post Post #288 (isolation #23) » Fri Apr 08, 2011 5:18 am

Twistedspoon wrote:I'm just slightly reluctant though. We've already outed 2 PRs today. I don't want a 3rd claim unless you guys think It's absolutely necessary that I do

Then I shall willingly do so

lol. I don't care what your claim is now. This post is scummy as hell. You're scum and I want you lynched regardless of your claim.

Rhinox · Post Post #298 (isolation #24) » Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:37 am

Twistedspoon wrote:why? What's wrong with not wanting all our PRs outed?

anyways, I'm a one-shot cop

explains why I questioned Ender about his role I guess. I wanted to check it was the same as mine. I was quite surprised when he claimed one-shot cop

the fact that you basically said you were a PR but didn't want to claim to out another PM, but actually outing yourself anyways and stalling with your actual full claim is what's wrong with what you said.

Maxous wrote:
Rhinox wrote:lol. I don't care what your claim is now. This post is scummy as hell. You're scum and I want you lynched regardless of your claim.
Really? And what is the difference between the response from TS and the response from Ender when he was effectively at L-1?

See my comment to TS above. There's a difference. HUGE difference.

TBH, I wasn't expecting twisted to claim 1-shot cop. I'm going to have to think about this now. Some of his posts make sense with the claim.

unvote

I think its about time we find out for sure if Javert is what he says he is. Ender and TS should be off limits. Anyone else fair game. Daykill go!

Rhinox · Post Post #341 (isolation #25) » Mon Apr 11, 2011 3:43 am

Rhinox wrote:I think its about time we find out for sure if Javert is what he says he is. Ender and TS should be off limits. Anyone else fair game. Daykill go!

Still waiting...

--------------------

Maxous wrote:
Rhinox wrote:See my comment to TS above. There's a difference. HUGE difference.
Do you mean this comment?
I don't get it :/

no... this one.

---------------------

Oso wrote:Triple Post. I want to get this out as a thinking point before I get busy today.

Yesterday I thought about this game quite a bit, and I have an idea I want to throw out.

Javert's shot followed by a no-lynch.

1)Get's us a flip and confirms that Javert has at least the ability to daykill.
2)Avoids outing any other roles. I found (I think) what looks to be a breadcrumb to yet another role (and no, I'm not going to point it out), we keep this up and we are going to have to have a mass-claim here on D1 simply because we seem to be hitting all PRs.
3)It allows our three claimed roles to go ahead and use those roles.
4)Downside, we lose the lynch and information we might get by purposely taking someone to a lynch but I believe that will be offset, in this game at least, by allowing what we have showing to go ahead. Normally, I wouldn't even consider a no-lynch D1. This game is turning out to be fairly unique in my experience.

no. If all the claimed roles are telling the truth, then scum probably have a RB and a GF. Do the math.

----------------------

Juls wrote:
farside wrote:Honestly I can't see 2 one shot cops. I've never heard of it. Juls broken down the possibilities, but I wonder do you (Juls) have a view on any one of those possibilities between the two players?
I would guess the least likely is TS-Mafia/ender-town. And most probable is either TS-Town/Ender-Town or TS-Town/Ender-Mafia. The latter only because I can't get past ender saying his "crumb" was an accident.

I'm actually leaning the other way around or both town.

---------------------

Necessary Evil wrote:
Rhinox wrote:
NE wrote:@Rhinox: So you think ender is town based on his meta. How can we tell if he is scum?
No, I've mentioned nothing of meta. I don't believe I've ever played with ender before. The comments I made regarding him are based on play in this game only.
I see. If you have no prior history with him, how can you assume that he is an easy target for scum rather than scum himself? Are you finding any of his play scummy?

What I was really getting at was a nicer way of calling ender VI-town. It doesn't take meta to be able to read whats going on within this game. No, I don't find ender's play scummy.

--------------------

Juls wrote:@Javert - I am opposed to making any decisions about after you vig kill before you actually vig kill but I also think we will need time to make those decisions. So, I would like you to vig kill sooner rather than later. FYI, its 1 week and 3 days from deadline.

+1

Rhinox · Post Post #355 (isolation #26) » Tue Apr 12, 2011 3:27 am

Juls wrote:
Mod: Please prod ender

Also, I was thinking we give Javert a town-imposed deadline of midnight Wednesday (tomorrow) April 13 to give town 1 week to decide a lynch. If he hasn't decided by Wednesday, then he is probably fake-claiming and he can be our lynch. Does that sound good?

I like the town imposed deadline. I don't think not being a vig automatically makes him scum, but the claim did pretty much ensure no one looked seriously in his direction all day. That is beneficial to javert-scum. The more he continues to lurk and stall when he claims to have claimed to enforce activity, the worse he looks IMO. I think the wednesday deadline is too generous TBH, I'd like to see a daykill or admission of gambit in his next post.

Rhinox · Post Post #364 (isolation #27) » Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:39 am

@Oso: Like I've said before, ender is coming off as a VI this game. I don't mean it in the derogatory sense that it has come to mean around here recently, but in the literal town player who some people view as scummy but is town nonetheless. The reasons are there. EA has given a couple, and there are a couple more, but arguing why ender is town isn't going to help us lynch scum today.

As for my reason, it wasn't presented in a "this is why ender is town", but rather "this is why your conspiracy theory didn't make any sense". You said:

I would say I don't know what to think of that except I do. I think it smells. If scum, he only has to sell one innocent that can easily be killed later. He doesn't get caught in the confirming more townies than scum can kill loop

and I only gave you the short reason. The long reason is, if he is scum, even if he claims full sane cop, he's not confirming anybody. Scum already know who's not scum, and they can call their scum partners innocent.

Rhinox · Post Post #367 (isolation #28) » Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:09 am

Rhinox wrote:
maxous wrote:I think thier are scummy because I think they are mafia actions, no other reason.
*sigh* I was asking you WHY you think they are mafia actions...

@Maxous: When I asked you this way back when, I really was hoping for an answer.

Rhinox · Post Post #414 (isolation #29) » Wed Apr 13, 2011 5:51 am

*grumbles about the kill choice*

ender, hurry up and get in here and post your thoughts before you are officially dead!

Rhinox · Post Post #417 (isolation #30) » Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:49 am

ender241 wrote:Dude, sorry i forgot to put V/LA in my games. You've wasted a shot and you shall regret it...one day would have been of use just so i could have investigated tonight...

do you have any last minute thoughts? Who do you think we should be looking at once you're dead?

Rhinox · Post Post #446 (isolation #31) » Thu Apr 14, 2011 6:22 am

ugh, I need to reread and figure out who my suspects are. Someone asked for a top 3, I don't have that right now. I'm not going to just throw names out as suspects without good reasons.

I was REALLY hoping Javert was gambiting, and we'd have an alive, confirmed town ender right now based on his reaction to being fake day-killed. As it stands, unless all of our PRs are now outed and scum have a RB and a GF, I'm suspicious of 2 1-shot cops in addition to a day vig. Think about it, if they aren't forced to claim D1, typical scenario would be they could claim results tomorrow, and they'd be 4 confirmed town. If the day vig is also town, they could take out a guilty result on D2, or the scummiest player without ending the day and progressing to night. That seems like a lot of power and a lot of cleared players potentially by day 2.

Rhinox · Post Post #448 (isolation #32) » Thu Apr 14, 2011 8:00 am

EA: Why is Oso more scum than TS or Klazam? I noticed you've used the same type of argument style in addressing all 3 of them. Each time it comes across as being super sure you found scum. Do you think all 3 are scum? and how certain as a rough percent for each?

Rhinox · Post Post #451 (isolation #33) » Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:51 am

Erratus Apathos wrote:Rhinox: Oso is the scummiest because he trusted Ender and TS WAAAAAY too much for someone who supposedly still suspects them. The whole "I sort of believe their claims but not really" thing comes off like he wanted a lame excuse to jump off their wagons. It certainly doesn't come off as any kind of genuine scumhunting.

Here are my rough estimates of the percentage likelihood of being scum:

Klazam: one million percent
TS: thirty billion percent
Oso: NINE HUNDRED TRILLION PERCENT

basically what I'm saying here is I don't find percentages meaningful at all. But yes, all three are scum reads.

I understand but that wasn't really what I was getting at. What I meant was, the tactics you're using - same quote over and over, many votes in a row, caps and spaces to call someone scum - the "HOLY SHIT EMPHASIS THIS IS SRS BSNSS" so to speak - is usally what I see from

Fate

someone who's absolutely sure they've found scum. I want to know, are you absolutely sure any/all 3 are scum, or are they just you're strongest scum reads and this is your playstyle/how you attack your scum reads?

Rhinox · Post Post #466 (isolation #34) » Fri Apr 15, 2011 7:04 am

farside wrote:I'm not sure why Rhinox is questioning EA's push on those he finds scummy.

It seems artificial. I compared the style to fate in jest, but the difference is, fate uses the over the top emphasis in directly questioning his suspect. EA on the other hand is using the over the top emphasis to try to convince the rest of us. In other words, he's not using it to try to figure out who's scum, he's using it to try to push a lynch through. Its a subtle difference, and makes it potentially scummy. But I don't think its enough to even consider EA as a lynch candidate today. He's generally been saying stuff I agree with, or at least don't outright disagree with.

I really don't have a good suspect right now. Below are some of my gut instincts:

Juls and farside have been underwhelming so far for the most part. When I read their posts, I don't see much "trying to find scum", but rather a lot of "commenting on whats going on". Like the above quote by farside - it is not a direct question or accusation. It says nothing about what she thinks about the question or what it says about my or EA's alignment. I know thats just one small example, but thats the sort of vibe I'm getting from both Juls and Farside. My gut is telling me one or both of them could be scum hanging back just cruising under the radar. I expect more from both of them as town.

I have bad feelings about Maxous but I can't put a finger on why.

Javert is disappointing. He's not ruled out just because of his day kill.

Javert wrote:
Inspector Javert
shall be the one asking the questions from here on out.

There has been a dissappointing lack of follow through here by someone who is supposed to be role-confirmed "prob"-town.

Oso - thought was scum early, then felt better about. Not sure about the push on him now.

Twisted - gets a pass today.

EA - see above.

M=W - has been off my radar/no good gut read.

Prosaurus/Klazam read as newb-town or at least "newer"-town.

NE - has been off my radar/no good gut read.

So I think I could be down for lynching either M=W or NE for information - getting flips on players I have difficulty reading. Maaaaybe Oso, but I need to reread and remember why I was feeling better about him in the middle of the day. I don't see enough reason to push a lynch on someone I have any confidence in flipping scum other than unjustified bad vibes.

Rhinox · Post Post #499 (isolation #35) » Sun Apr 17, 2011 3:51 am

farrside wrote:Rhinox: I could say the same about your play reading you prior. It's like your here but not really pushing anything. How do you think lynching someone you have no read on helps?

The same way a cop investigating someone they have no read on helps.

Prosaurus wrote:May I point out there
is
infact a mason role which is scum.
May I also popint out that scum can talk to each other, and put in a fake breadcrumb incase of a situation like this.

Scum masons aren't allowed in normal games (edit-like everyone else has said

). They could both theoretically be scum lying though, but I don't believe that is the case.

Something is going on though: 2 one-shot cops + 2 masons + 1 shot day vig equals a hell of a lot of town power. Hell, with the cops and the masons that could be 6 confirmed innocents on day 2. That would be pretty much game breaking. Twisted can plausibly be town is scum group have GF and RB. But if both cops and the mason claims are all town, then Javert is looking an awful lot like a scum 1 shot vig to counter all the confirmed innos.

Rhinox · Post Post #504 (isolation #36) » Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:27 am

farside22 wrote:
Juls wrote:
Rhinox wrote: But if both cops and the mason claims are all town, then Javert is looking an awful lot like a scum 1 shot vig to counter all the confirmed innos.
Have you ever seen a scum day vig? Has anyone? I would love to see the game if you have. I could see a scum day-vig in themed but not normal.
Never seen one in a normal game, only in theme.

Yeah, like I said earlier in the game. It was a large theme game with a non-standard mechanic: Last Will Mafia 2

Now, I happen to know from discussions with the normal review group for my game that day- modifiers themselves are not normal qualifiers. One iteration of my setup was actually going to have a town 1-shot day vig, but I was told it was not normal but would be allowed under the 1 unique role/mechanic clause. So a scum 1-shot day vig is definitely not normal either, but may be allowable under the unique role clause.

Even if there is a GF and a RB on the scum side, if all the claimed roles are town this is still an OP town.

Rhinox · Post Post #562 (isolation #37) » Fri Apr 22, 2011 2:51 am

I agree,

Vote: NE

<<<<<<L-1 VOTE!!!

Also, I'm V/LA for the holiday weekend.

Noted. Have fun!

EA, LOVE the vote tag art!

Rhinox · Post Post #624 (isolation #38) » Mon Apr 25, 2011 2:23 am

WTF WHY IS NE NOT BEING LYNCH WITH A FUCKING PASSION YET!

Maxous wrote:@Farside and Rhinox: Why did the two of you instantly beleive the result from Twistedspoon? As far as I remember he was on both of your suspect lists.

I didn't even think about a framer. Its a role I've never seen before. Is it even allowed in normals?
If NE had claimed miller after being investigated, my vote would be locked on him anyways.

TWISTED HAS NO REASON TO FAKE A GUILTY AS SCUM IN THIS SITUATION. HE WOULD FAKE AN INNO OR BE ROLEBLOCKED. TWISTED IS TOWN, NE IS SCUM. LYNCH NE!!!

I'm getting the feeling the push to put doubt in TS's claim and get him lynched instead is heavily scum-backed. I'm looking at you EA and Farside. Farside, that "I Think..." semantics argument is absolutely crap. OK add Duplicity to this list as well.

Rhinox · Post Post #630 (isolation #39) » Mon Apr 25, 2011 2:56 am

farside22 wrote:
Rhinox wrote:WTF WHY IS NE NOT BEING LYNCH WITH A FUCKING PASSION YET!

Maxous wrote:@Farside and Rhinox: Why did the two of you instantly beleive the result from Twistedspoon? As far as I remember he was on both of your suspect lists.
I didn't even think about a framer. Its a role I've never seen before. Is it even allowed in normals?
If NE had claimed miller after being investigated, my vote would be locked on him anyways.

TWISTED HAS NO REASON TO FAKE A GUILTY AS SCUM IN THIS SITUATION. HE WOULD FAKE AN INNO OR BE ROLEBLOCKED. TWISTED IS TOWN, NE IS SCUM. LYNCH NE!!!

I'm getting the feeling the push to put doubt in TS's claim and get him lynched instead is heavily scum-backed. I'm looking at you EA and Farside. Farside, that "I Think..." semantics argument is absolutely crap. OK add Duplicity to this list as well.
Oh so Oso comes up with an answer to a question not asked and he is scummy, but TS posting an "I think" he is scum comment with a quick response after is town.

Does not compute!

LOL completely different situations.

Thanks for claiming scum with NE.

Rhinox · Post Post #632 (isolation #40) » Mon Apr 25, 2011 5:09 am

Try looking at the game from the larger perspective. Scum trade for Town all the time. And although Twistedspoon is a newb himself, if he is scum then he presumably has two partners who are likely more experienced than him, and who could easily have planned alongside Twistedspoon to say "just claim a guilty on X player who is unclaimed."

So who are the 2 scum partners rushing to lynch NE then as part of this big scum plan? As of the last vote count, it was, just me and TS voting for NE. Duplicity can answer as well since he basically said the same thing.

The big push today is in the corner of trying to get TS lynched. That seems a lot more like the "trying to force a mislynch" scenario that you described.

Here's another reason why TS is town:

You guys are saying:
Inno or No result: TS was probably going to get lynched anyways.
Guilty: ZOMG TS IS SCUM because if he claimed inno or no result he was going to get lynched anyways.

So, this being the case, WHY THE HELL DIDN'T YOU ALL LYNCH HIM YESTERDAY?? NO! TS WILL NOT BE LYNCHED TODAY, ON THE BASIS OF "ANY CLAIMED RESULT MEANS HE IS SCUM". THAT'S FACKING RETURDED.

Rhinox · Post Post #634 (isolation #41) » Mon Apr 25, 2011 5:27 am

Duplicity wrote:Rhinox, why would his scum partners jump on board with the lynch right away? Doing so would expose them, therefore they rather fence-sit over his allignment and buss if need by, otherwise they'll vote out NE.

The argument isn't that he's mafia because he claims to have a guilty, the argument is that the fact he claimed to have a guilty is a null-tell, not a zomgstrongtowntell like you're attempting to make it out.

DON'T DODGE THE QUESTION!

Tell me who his scum partners are sitting back fencesitting ready to bus then!

I'm not saying its a town tell, I'm basically saying this:

If TS was so scummy that he was such the obvious lynch choice today, then everybody should have been wanting to lynch him yesterday rather than HERP DERP let's let him live and see a result. Now, OH LOOK A RESULT TS is scum regardless of what result he would have claimed.... Wat?

I'm saying, its very obvious scum are trying to get TS mislynched first. Otherwise, if TS was SOOOO scummy he was going to be lynched today regardless, then he would have been lynched yesterday rather than deadline lynching M=W.

Rhinox · Post Post #636 (isolation #42) » Mon Apr 25, 2011 5:51 am

Yeah I was meaning to ask you about why I'm on your list by the way. Firstly, you think I fit the description of what you think scum would do today:

duplicity wrote:why would his scum partners jump on board with the lynch right away? Doing so would expose them, therefore they rather fence-sit over his allignment and buss if need by, otherwise they'll vote out NE.

Secondly, this is all you've said about me:

Rhinox - Leaning Scum.
<snip>
Rhinox viewtopic.php?p=2929096#p2929096 - Good logic, seems overly coaching rather than stating a subjective opinion on Osos actions though.
<snip>
Rhinox viewtopic.php?p=2965070#p2965070 - Read later.

So I'm scum because of good logic, a post you said you'd read later, and because I'm doing the opposite of what you just told me you thought scum would be doing regarding NE and TS?

Rhinox · Post Post #654 (isolation #43) » Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:39 am

NE wrote:Once again, why are you trying to rush through the day? Why do I have to be lynched right now?

OMG classic scum tactic here - scum investigates as guilty, accuse attackers of trying to "rush through the day" to attempt to discredit them.

I think you're scum and there's virtually no way I'm voting anyone else today regardless of what is said. I see nothing wrong with lynching scum now. Its not rushing and its not too early.

farside wrote:How is it different. What differences are they?

bc I saw what maxous pointed out in #644: TS obviously wasn't trying to cover his ass, but you're twisting his quotes to make it out to seem like he is. Its all in the quote:

TS wrote:so unless you can
prove that the mafioso have a framer or I am an insane cop without knowing so
then you're mafioso

and then TS points out that all cops are sane in normals, which implies he does not believe it is possible he is insane.

which TS is saying exactly: unless NE can prove there's a framer or TS is insane, then NE is mafia.

Sounds to me like TS is pretty certain of his result and not trying to leave loopholes.

maxous wrote:But you did say it was a town-tell

I never said TS was town specifically because of his result. I was leaning town on TS after his 1-shot cop claim.

Quilford wrote:
Duplicity wrote:What do you make out of TwistedSpoon claiming he believed Ender due to it being a "One-shot" themed game when Ender was the only person who had claimed a One Shot role?

Maxous wrote:No offence to Twistedspoon but it would be serious quick thinking to do this in the next post
2 minutes
after Ender's claim.
Anyone who thinks TS is scum after this is also scum.

Getting bad vibes from farside.

^^^ This is an excellent point!!

farside22 wrote:I have a question that i would like Rhinox to answer only.

Rhinox: At the end of the day who would you think TS would investigated?

Looking back at TS's iso, I would have assumed it would be one of prosaurus or oso, based on this statement:

TS wrote:
prosaurus
and
Oso
are wildcards for me today. I'll give them a pass

Why do you ask?

Rhinox · Post Post #680 (isolation #44) » Thu Apr 28, 2011 9:38 am

farside wrote:Ohhh i just skimmed a bit on something but did Rhinox just say he thought TS was town at the end of day 1?<snip>
*note research Rhinox next

I'll save you the trouble. I said I was *leaning* town on twisted at the end of D1, as the quote you found says. I believe my comments in these post AFTER TS's claim portray's that sentiment. These posts also clearly show I did not think of TS as obvscum at the end of the day as NE is now claiming. Thats a clear misrep on his part with the only purpose to try to discredit me. Makes me even more confident my vote is in the right spot.

rhinox wrote:TBH, I wasn't expecting twisted to claim 1-shot cop. I'm going to have to think about this now. Some of his posts make sense with the claim.

unvote

I think its about time we find out for sure if Javert is what he says he is. Ender and TS should be off limits. Anyone else fair game. Daykill go!

rhinox wrote:
Juls wrote:
farside wrote:Honestly I can't see 2 one shot cops. I've never heard of it. Juls broken down the possibilities, but I wonder do you (Juls) have a view on any one of those possibilities between the two players?
I would guess the least likely is TS-Mafia/ender-town. And most probable is either TS-Town/Ender-Town or TS-Town/Ender-Mafia. The latter only because I can't get past ender saying his "crumb" was an accident.

I'm actually leaning the other way around or both town.

rhinox wrote:Twisted - gets a pass today.

rhinox wrote:Something is going on though: 2 one-shot cops + 2 masons + 1 shot day vig equals a hell of a lot of town power. Hell, with the cops and the masons that could be 6 confirmed innocents on day 2. That would be pretty much game breaking. Twisted can plausibly be town is scum group have GF and RB. But if both cops and the mason claims are all town, then Javert is looking an awful lot like a scum 1 shot vig to counter all the confirmed innos.

---------------------------

farside wrote:Rhinox: I asked because you stated you believed with the PR's from day 1 that scum would have a RB. I figured that TS with his day 1 constant point against NE that if NE was scum why would scum take a chance and not RB him in the first place?

Its always been my belief that cops aren't supposed to target who they already think is scum, they just get those players lynched and investigate their null reads.

Regardless, it did make me curious for TS to not claim to be roleblocked today, whether he's town or scum. But I don't think not being RBed should be a reason to call TS scum.

----------------------------

NE wrote:How could TS survive today without claiming a guilty?

ummm...the same way he didn't get lynched yesterday maybe...?

I want to revisit why it doesn't make sense for TS scum to try this gambit. The argument is, if scum force a mislynch today, then we would be in perpetual mylo for the rest of the game. This is IMO short sighted.

If TS is scum and this is a gambit, then TS has a 50% chance of not only getting lynched anyways, but also pretty much clearing a townie if his gambit fails (not a pro-town townie either, forcing a suboptimal nk). And a second scum could be lynched the second day. Even if his gambit succeeds, there is a 100% chance of lynching scum the next day.

Consider no gambit: there is some non-zero percentage that no scum will die in 2 days - that is to say, we're not guaranteed to even lynch a single scum over the next 2 days.

Actually, maybe it'll make more sense if I just give you the numbers...

Spoiler: numbers, numbers, numbers

OK, so now for the real tl;dr: I still stand by the fact that scum-TS and the scum team don't benefit from having TS claim a guilty on NE-town today. (small benefit under some assumption, huge misplay under others). Therefore, I believe the more likely scenario is that TS is telling the truth and NE is scum. If I'm being duped, I'm still happy to take the 1 for 1 because if this is a gambit we're likely to end up in mylo after 2 more lynches anyways even if scum is lynched today (regardless of who the scum is). Compared to had we not had a guilty today, under random lynching assumptions we'd have been even more likely to be in mylo or worse after 2 lynches (we would probably be stuck no lynching tomorrow to get to full lylo, due to the misvig - another reason why this would not be an optimal gambit for scum to try).

-----------------------------------------

Thinking about all this, it makes me more suspicious that javert could be scum. IMO, he really used his daykill in an antitown way - first claiming on D1, and then killing a claimed PR. It basically turns the game back into the old style 12p mini's which were scum favored, but even more scum favored with the scum daykill considering that javert could eliminate a very pro-town player or PR. Then it would make sense that town has the masons and 2 cops and scum with no RB - frankly, that would make the game seem pretty balanced. Swingy as hell, but balanced. I'm basically just throwing this out here now and tucking it under my tin-foil hat. But this is one theory that doesn't really take a huge stretch to believe.

Or, maybe I'm just upset because, if javert is town and still had his daykill today, we'd be able to use his daykill first on the one of TS or NE who we most think is scum, and mop up the other with the lynch if we're wrong (or lynch scum if the daykill hits scum).

NE-Javert-...Farside/duplicity? scum team?

Rhinox · Post Post #691 (isolation #45) » Fri Apr 29, 2011 3:06 am

Duplicity wrote:1. Rhinox, what made you change your mind about the point you brought up here?

I didn't change my mind. That post should not have been read that I thought TS was definitely scum, just that something doesn't seem right about the setup - seems like an OP town. If you read my last post, I'm currently entertaining a theory that Javert is a scum daykill. Or maybe scum have lots of power I don't know about that justifies the town's power.

@NE:
-You clearly were misrepping me because you ignored all my comments on D1 AFTER TS claimed. You'll note that I was ok with your lynch D1 and not wanting to lynch TS.

-You're misrepping TS by saying he was waffling - he wasn't.

-He's a cop with a guilty on you, of course he's going to push for your lynch.

-I didn't say TS had a 50% chance of getting lynched if you flip town, I said that today, IF he is gambitting, then he is engaging you in a 50/50 scenario and has a 50% chance of getting lynched TODAY. If somehow you do flip town, then TS is 100% getting lynched tomorrow. I made those points very clear. You either can not comprehend english, or you are misrepping me again to continue pushing your bullshit RHINOX ISN'T THINKING THIS THROUGH!!! point. I think my last post shows I have thought it completely through and am ready to see you flip scum officially.

-Whether or not you would be nked in the hypothetical scenario where TS is lynched scum today is irrelevant, but you would be confirmed town IMO just as TS will be confirmed town when you flip scum. The idea presented that this is a bus is scummy. There is absolutely no justification for that suspicion, only puts doubts in townies' heads about the confirmed town status of TS after you flip scum.

-I'm happy lynching you because I have thought it through and think you're scum. I made it clear that if you're not scum, there's virtually no chance TS is not getting lynched tomorrow. I've made it clear that my voted is on the player of the 2 I believe is more likely to be scum and explained why, but that if I'm wrong and this is a TS scum gambit, then I'm still good with 1 for 1 because we're still in a better position IMO than if TS-hyposcum wouldn't have claimed a guilty today and scum are still in a worse position IMO.

I don't have any problem with a hammer anytime now.

Rhinox · Post Post #697 (isolation #46) » Fri Apr 29, 2011 5:48 am

Hey locke nice to see you again.

Rhinox · Post Post #737 (isolation #47) » Tue May 03, 2011 6:20 am

hmmm... I think I may have just wifomed myself into thinking farside is actually town.

Anybody who thinks TS is scum better have a damn good reason other than a baseless accusation that they were bussing. Come up with a reasonable explaination for why the hell they would do that?

I'm making a mental note to investigate who Javert was suspicious of besides TS. Javert nk doesn't make much sense IMO, he wasn't doing a lot of scumhunting thus shouldn't have been seen as a threat unless he was on the right track and scum were worried he might play a more active role. Its also possible that scum felt he was too unlynchable and confirmed town, would implicate TS, or his flip wouldn't provide a lot of info, but IME those have become outdated reasons for scum kills. New meta shifts let towns who have the balls learn from night kills. Javert was basically VT in role, and with me preparing to look into him today was far from confirmed town.

Mod, any chance you could update the first post with current players and who they replaced? I'm having trouble keeping track. It was quilford who replaced klazam, yes?

*checks* yeah it was, but it would still be nice to have that info in the OP.

Quilford is actually confirmed town, yet scum choose to kill javert over quilford, who is not only confirmed town but also an upgrade to the klazam slot? Yeah, doesn't make a lot of sense to me at all. Quilford, your suspicions from yesterday are probably wrong, otherwise you'd probably be dead right now.

Not to pat myself on the back, but I take a lot of credit for getting NE lynched and not allowing TS to be lynched. I bring this up, because scum would see that I'm persuasive in this town, and if my suspicions were on the right track, I'd be a legitimate choice for a nk. Scum don't like influential townies who are on the right track.

So, my theory is, scum figured Kill javert, maybe he was on the right track, maybe it would implicate TS, maybe with Javert dead, rhinox would focus on his #2 suspect farside. Quilford should have been the obvious nk choice for being 100% confirmed town, but he was obviously going to help mislynch farside, so he gets left alive. All this is wifoming myself into believing farside is town.

We have 2 scum left, and they are 1 of EA(Locke right?)/Maxous, and 1 of Prosaurus/Duplicity IMO. I think the VCA will support this once I present it. Its pretty obvious Quilford would be dead if farside were scum if nothing else. Thus, farside is prob-town.

More to come later, including that vote count analysis

Rhinox · Post Post #739 (isolation #48) » Tue May 03, 2011 6:38 am

Thats actually a good catch. Vigged does imply town. I didn't pay attention to that. Still, doesn't change my last post as there should be no doubt that quilford-mason is/was more confirmed town than Javert and less likely to be lynched. The fact remains that scum killed javert over quilford for a reason, and its clear to me that a farside mislynch is the goal with a possible side of, javert possibly being suspicious of who really is scum.

Rhinox · Post Post #742 (isolation #49) » Tue May 03, 2011 7:13 am

Duplicity:

1b, 2: IF (big IF) Twisted has a PR so powerful it would mean certain death to the scum side to lose it, then maaaaybe.

but...

1a: Twistedscum lynch yesterday would be a null on NE. We'd be having a discussion about whether he would claim a guilty on his partner or an innocent. 3: You say yourself NE's lynch was highly likely anyways, so you can't make the argument that twisted scum would imply NE town, if you're also making the argument the since twisted's lynch was likely, NEscum DOES NOT imply twisted town. you can't have it both ways.

Rhinox · Post Post #754 (isolation #50) » Wed May 04, 2011 3:32 am

Vote Count #2:

Necessary Evil

(3):

Twistedspoon

,

Quilford

,

Rhinox

Twistedspoon

(3):

Necessary Evil

,

Farside22

, Erratus Apathos
Not Voting (4): Maxous,

Javert

, Prosaurus, Duplicity

Vote Count #3:

Twistedspoon

(4):

Necessary Evil

,

Farside22

, Erratus Apathos,

Quilford

Necessary Evil

(2):

Twistedspoon

,

Rhinox

Not Voting (4): Maxous,

Javert

, Prosaurus, Duplicity

Vote Count #4:

Necessary Evil

(4):

Twistedspoon

,

Rhinox

, Erratus Apathos,

Quilford

Twistedspoon

(2):

Necessary Evil

,

Farside22

Not Voting (5): Maxous,

Javert

, Prosaurus, Duplicity

Vote Count #5:

Necessary Evil

(5):

Twistedspoon

,

Rhinox

, Erratus Apathos,

Quilford

, Maxous

Twistedspoon

(2):

Necessary Evil

,

Farside22

Not Voting (3):

Javert

, Prosaurus, Duplicity

Final Vote Count:

Necessary Evil

(6):

Twistedspoon

,

Rhinox

, Erratus Apathos,

Quilford

, Maxous,

Necessary Evil

Twistedspoon

(1):

Farside22

Not Voting (3):

Javert

, Prosaurus, Duplicity

@ above VCA: Bolded are facts, not bolded are my assumptions. I'm posting this so I can refer back to it. When analzying the players I haven't colored red or green up there.

Spoiler: EA analysis

I had initially meant to include analysis of Maxous, Prosaurus, and Duplicity/OS in this post, but its taking a bit too long both in time and words. I also need to look at Javert's suspicions, and do a farside iso to make sure I'm not wifoming myself out of a scum lynch. All this will be done before I place a vote today, but this should start off explaining my thinking for my earlier posts so far this day. You guys can at least get a head start on reading the EA part rather than me dumping the entire wall on you at once

Rhinox · Post Post #755 (isolation #51) » Wed May 04, 2011 3:54 am

Quilford wrote:what Maxous said (about Javert) was also my reasoning

That may have played a part...

but all the same, Scum aren't going to kill an experienced player just because he's experienced if he's lurking, looking in the wrong direction, and has some non zero possibility of getting lynched, while leaving alive a lesser experienced, 100% confirmed town player who is likely to vote for a scum the next day.

Not to mention, assuming farside scum, she's not going to be worried about experienced players. meh ok I suppose she might pull a boston rob and kick out anyone who has a clue to keep around the clueless (no offense to anyone), but without a complete turn around of play, Javert probably shouldn't have been seen as a threat to scum unless he was right in his limited suspicions and scum were scared into killing him before he became more influential. Or, Javert's suspicions didn't matter and he wasn't a threat, but he was second most confirmed town with Quilford ready to help mislynch farside.

All bets are off if Javert suspected farside I honestly can't remember if Javert expressed any suspicions at all and haven't gone back and looked yet.

Rhinox · Post Post #756 (isolation #52) » Wed May 04, 2011 4:07 am

Prosaurus comment about day talk can only be a null tell or a town tell.

Because if he didn't actually "slip" that there was day talk, he made a few comments as if he really did believe it was common knowledge that scum always have day talk.

So he could be scum and scum have day talk.
Or he can be town and scum either do or do not have day talk.

so if scum DO have day talk, then its null.
If scum DO NOT have day talk, then its a town tell.

Based on my understanding of normal mechanics with the normal review group, day talk is not considered a normal mechanic. We already have confirmed our non-standard role or mechanic with Javert, therefore in my understanding of normal game guidelines, scum can not have day talk in this game.

Thus, if scum do not have day talk, then its a town tell.

Thus, prosaurus is probtown.

Thus, Maxous/Dups still looking like remaining scum.

Thus, thus.

Rhinox · Post Post #758 (isolation #53) » Wed May 04, 2011 8:23 am

SPOILER ALERT!

Spoiler: Spoiler

Rhinox · Post Post #776 (isolation #54) » Fri May 06, 2011 12:18 pm

Maxous wrote:@Rhinox: Do you have any reason why you beleive Farside is town apart from the Javert kill?
Also, you said you agree about Locke on his assesment of myself? With all of his points or just the conclusion?
Is there any points you disagree?

Yes there is the fact that Farside adamantly left her vote parked right next to NE in the VC all game day. Scum partners don't often take identical stances and leave votes in the same places. ESPECIALLY not when 1 of them was guaranteed to get lynched either yesterday or today.

Points and conclusion, and no I'm not going to go through and address all the points one by one. There's nothing productive about that.

This weekend on my to do list is to finish the reads I've promised and then vote for Maxous if the reads don't change my opinion.

Rhinox · Post Post #788 (isolation #55) » Sat May 07, 2011 2:55 am

Why are we even talking about TS today? We shouldm't even be considering lynching him today. If he's still alive in LyLo, then we can argue whether or not he's scum.

Rhinox · Post Post #804 (isolation #56) » Mon May 09, 2011 7:35 am

Well I didn't get caught up on the weekend like I'd hoped, but I'm working on it now. first thing I did was look back at Javert to see if he may have been killed for being on the right track.

Javert suspicions:
D1: Mostly ender, M=W, and TS. He did FOS farside once, but didn't dwell a lot on it..
D2: Only expressed suspicion of TS.

Hrmph... This wasn't as helpful as I'd hoped. Javert wasn't on the right track unless he was right about either TS or farside. I also went back and looked at quilford - iso #12 was the post that made it clear IMO that quilford would be going after farside today after a NE-scum flip. Thats why were farside actually scum, I'd have expected confirmed town quilford to be killed before maybe sorta confirmed town javert. But javert also suspected farside a bit, so... I'm going to have to reconsider my theory. If farside can be scum, then EA/Locke is also back on the table.

You guys have said a lot about maxous, but I need to take a look for myself. Also, prosaurus and duplicity. I'll get back to you. Thought this game was in the bag as long as Javert's iso didn't show what it does. Now I have to rethink.

Rhinox · Post Post #829 (isolation #57) » Thu May 12, 2011 5:58 am

hey sorry for failing and not keeping up well today. I see deadline is incoming so I'm making this game my top priority. I know farside asked me a question not sure if anyone else did. I'll get get to it and figure out who I'm voting. I'm mostly considering maxous, duplicity, and farside. I'm still hung up about farside being the scum setup mislynch today. Locke is ruled out as scum with with maxous and duplicity - maxous for case today, duplicity for EA vs Oso yesterday. Locke/farside is really the only option for locke scum. Maybe Locke/Prosaurus. Maxous and Duplicity are both POE + avoiding taking a stance on TS vs. NE until maxous voted late in the day.

Rhinox · Post Post #859 (isolation #58) » Sun May 15, 2011 4:15 am

ugh, getting close to deadline. I'm going to

vote: maxous

I keep thinking the likely scum pairings are maxous/duplicity or farside/LL. Farsides claim seems genuine and consistent with her play. I'm still leaning town on her and if she's town I don't see any way LL can be scum. LL/maxous? why bus today? LL/duplicity? not a chance the way EA was going after Oso. LL/prosaurus? not if prosaurus is town. LL/farside is the only one I can't rule out except for leaning today that farside is town, thus LL is probably town as well. That leaves maxous, duplicity, and prosaurus. duplicity isn't getting lynched with such a short time to deadline, prosaurus is prob town. That leaves maxous.

I would lynch farside as a second choice because it would clear (or possibly condemn) LL. I don't think I could lynch LL without a farside scum flip first. And right now I don't think farside will flip scum.

Rhinox · Post Post #868 (isolation #59) » Mon May 16, 2011 2:49 am

neil1113 wrote:
Currently searching for a
Locke Lamora
replacement.

FYI: LL is on V/LA.

Rhinox · Post Post #870 (isolation #60) » Mon May 16, 2011 6:04 am

Duplicity wrote:I'm fairly happy with the hammer, if Maxous flips scum
TS
Duplicity needs to be looked into deeply.

FTFY

er, non snarky response, why TS is maxous is scum?