New York 131: Tricycle Mafia (Day 5)

[Toon Fighter]

VOTE: nhammen obvious wagon is obvious

[Toon Fighter]

What time zone are you in? GMT+0

What's your experience level? Especially good to know in case of alts and whatnot. No alts, played several games last year, came back recently

About how active will you be in this game? I don't know

[Toon Fighter]

Game... so... slow...

[Toon Fighter]

@Knight:

Toon, why choose the nhammen "wagon"? Maxous already had 2 votes at the time of you voting, as opposed to the 1 on nhamman. If you were really voting for the purpose of wagoning, you'd vote for Maxous. Seems fishy to me. Glad my vote is already on you, saves me the trouble.

Also--

Because I don't have anything to go on... yet.

Given the unlikelihood of lynching someone on p3 of a large game, why this reluctance? A vote not out is a vote not gathering information, a lack of which is what you're bemoaning here.

Random vote is random. Why are you arguing so much about a simple vote in the RVS stage? Why don't we discuss something more productive?
UNVOTE: VOTE: SubzeroSith

[Toon Fighter]

Alright since so many people seem to not be getting it, I'll spell it out for all of you.

If Toon wanted to cause a day 1 bandwagon for the purpose of causing a bandwagon, which he implied that he wanted to do with his vote post, then he would clearly want to vote for the player who has the most votes on them. This was Maxous. He instead voted for nhammen. Why would he do this?

I can think of 3 reasons:
1) Toon knows Maxous is scum, and doesn't want a day 1 bandwagon to pile on him. This could potentially lead to Maxous over reacting in a scummy way and leads to increased suspicion, possibly a lynch down the road.
2) Toon knows that nhammen is scum and wants to distance himself from a scum buddy during the RVS, as scum buddies frequently do.
3) Toon either didn't know or didn't care what the current vote count was, and placed a worthless vote without meaning or purpose.

The first 2 would indicate that Toon is scum. The third, while not exactly saying much about his alignment, does theoretically help a scum win condition more than a town win condition.

I'm not saying this is a solid vote that should be carried to the deadline. I'm just saying this is a place to start better than a completely random vote.

It was a random vote for the sake of making a random vote. At least we are getting some gameplay out of it. I know nothing about the alignment of either of them. And I didn't notice Maxous already had 2 votes on him when I voted nhammen

[Toon Fighter]

Hmm... so atm Subzero is the first one trying to scumhunt this early, and observing this, I can't really say whether Toon is scum or not yet, but Subzero's points are valid and I can actually of agree with him on that reasoning. But I do not like how Toon voted Subzero just for being attacked.

Atm

Vote Toon Fighter

This is a pressure vote.

I voted him because he is attacking me for bs reasons about a RV I made at the beginning of the game

[Toon Fighter]

I have no clue what just happened. I'll have to reread this entire thread all at once, I guess. And I prob won't post till Monday morning.

I have no idea what just happened either, I'm going to bandwagon like crazy now.

Unvote: Maxous
Vote: Toon Fighter

If I get voted for bandwaggoning in RVS, this guy should too.

FoS: Thor

[Toon Fighter]

Hey y'all, I am a bit more calm now

[Toon Fighter]

@ Pine: I've honestly never seen an early day wagon result in a lynch. Can you shown me a game where that happened?

[Toon Fighter]

@mastin2: you seem to be trying to slip under the radar easily. Also, your 3 psots so far are bs. No content, a crappy vote with no reasoning, and you want DK to make a big post, but you don't do any.

unvote, vote: mastin

I want more content out of you, fast

[Toon Fighter]

@Pine: what are your thoughts on the current wagons on SZS and Pine?

[Toon Fighter]

Wow, mastin, you sure made a lot of walls. will read them and comment when I have time. now I'm busy

[Toon Fighter]

gonna be V/LA for the weekend

[Toon Fighter]

UNVOTE: VOTE: Subsith

Don't have much time now. I like the case on subzero, and I had suspected him before. Also, I believe my vote is more useful there than where it is now. When I have more time (probably tomorrow, but can't promise anything) I'll make a bigger post.

[Toon Fighter]

I don't like the posts between him and silverbullet (who, obviously, just claimed VT at L-1) and think we should lynch one of them. As silverbullet is already close to lynch, I decided to vote Subzero, but will be willing to hammer silverbullet if the need comes.

[Toon Fighter]

unvote, vote: silverbullet

[Toon Fighter]

The fact that the day was ending fast and my vote was being useless on SubSith. I have every intention of seeing him die, though, depending on silverbullet's flip.

[Toon Fighter]

just read mastins post,

unvote, vote: subzerosith

[Toon Fighter]

If mastin survives tonight, I propose we lynch either him on silverbullet tomorrow. he may be pulling a gambit here and be scum with silverbullet

[Toon Fighter]

STOP LYNCHING TOON!

agree. Need a votecount ASAP. If need comes, I'll claim -.-

[Toon Fighter]

This is all your fault, mastin, for not investigating silver earlier -.-

[Toon Fighter]

unvote, vote: Amor

How is the votecount right now? We have so far 5 claims

[Toon Fighter]

I read the thread the day after, but I had nothing to say. Also, my vote would be nearly useless at the end of the day if it wasn't in one of the main wagons (silver, SZS, and now you). Since we're right at the deadline, I want a lynch, and I trust the people who have been leading the game so far - mastin, for example. When I voted him, I hadn't noticed he had just replaced in, and when he showed himself reliable and participating in the game, I took my vote off him. Also, he believes with his heart I'm town, and I do too, so in that we agree aswell. I know I haven't been much active in D1, but that will change D2.

[Toon Fighter]

If you let me live, of course

[Toon Fighter]

Man, it would be nice to not have a wagon on me Day 1 for once.

I say the same thing. Every game I'm in, I get bandwagonned D1 -.-

[Toon Fighter]

Lets just hope you make it alive to next morning and get to put those reads to a good use!

[Toon Fighter]

vote: DeityKabuto

I don't like the way he tried to protect his godfather when the lynch was imminent. Plus, bad play throughout D1.

[Toon Fighter]

mastin, what was your glorious plan for last night? Why no protection? Why did you predict the mafia wouldn't kill you?

[Toon Fighter]

@DK: you tried to delay Amor's lynch for as long as possible, attacking nhammen and me, and if this isn't defending...

And for Amor, Amor posts logically, and he seems like a Pro-town sort of guy, I haven't really encountered much with him.

[Toon Fighter]

@Maxous: I now believe mastin to be town, because of Amor's flip and his actions leading town. However, I still want some explanation on his plan.

Obviously, his towniness (is that even a word?) is directly related to silverbullet's, and if either of them turn out to be scum, the other one is almost confirmed scum.

[Toon Fighter]

@DK: if you are calling me scum, why aren't you voting me?

[Toon Fighter]

I like the players on this wagon.

[Toon Fighter]

That description doesn't seem like the Roleblock I know. Care to elaborate, DK?

[Toon Fighter]

Also, why use it on mastin?

[Toon Fighter]

Why, if I were, mafia, would I bus both Amor and DK?

[Toon Fighter]

So I came by to start my Amor re-read....

and really?

Shit, I was convinced DK was town.. bleh

I think Toon Fighter bussed him though. His suspicion and vote came out of nowhere and the manner of how he went about it looks like he received instructions to do it during the night.
So yes I still think Toon is mafia.

Only one hesitiation.
@Mastin: If you can still use your day ability use it by your next post.
Then somebody hammer.

My suspicion of him came when I re-read D1 during the night. I don't know what's so wrong with it

[Toon Fighter]

I said who's scum, and whenever I claim, 99.8% of the time, it's honest.

0.2% being?... Also, you claimed 2 times already in this game. (at least) One of them is obviously a lie. That must have ruined your score

[Toon Fighter]

@DK: Why claim scum on the player that just counter-claimed you?

[Toon Fighter]

- If DK flips scum, that confirms mastin town

[Toon Fighter]

overall towniness, being on both wagons that led to scum, scumhunting throughout the game, being 100% sure I am town.

I find it very very hard to believe that, if DK flips scum, mastin is scum. He could, theoretically, still be a SK, if DK really is a roleblocker, as he claims, and he blocked mastin, maybe that is why the SK death didn't go through. Or maybe he killed Wraith.

Also, he could be taunting scum to kill him because he, as a SK, is NK-immune. If this is true, then mastin may be pulling a huge gambit towards a win as a SK

[Toon Fighter]

And yeah, I started the post assuming he was town, but changed my mind as I was writing it. He is definitely not mafia, that's for sure

[Toon Fighter]

In this scenario, he would be pulling silver's result out of his arse. SB would obviously confirm him, and claiming town DayCop is an excellent way to keep leading town as he is doing

[Toon Fighter]

can someone hammer plz?

[Toon Fighter]

Mastin, I want some explanation...

[Toon Fighter]

I'm going to assume mastin is town from now on. The lack of a SK kill for the first 2 nights and being on both scum lynches confirms him for me. That also means that I am trusting his arguments on silver's scumminess.

vote: silver

. If mastin has been right so far, I believe he is right today. We have now confirmation that DK's claim was BS, but, as Surye said yesterday, that gives us no information on Pine's alignment. But, DK wasn't a scum RB, so Pine could still be one, bussing DK. He could still be scum

[Toon Fighter]

V/LA till tomorrw

been busy. I'll probably make a good post tomorrow

[Toon Fighter]

@Mod: I thought I voted silverbullet

vote: silverbullet

[Toon Fighter]

To me, it seems that silver may be honest about what he is saying, but I don't like self-voters, so my vote stays where it is.

[Toon Fighter]

Probably more for being anti-town

[Toon Fighter]

If you don't trust mastin, lynch him first, not me

[Toon Fighter]

Maxous, Zepher and silver, mostly. Mastin can't be fully trusted, but he is proving himself reliable so far.

[Toon Fighter]

Pine is a doubt because of the DK/Surye/Pine situation yesterday, but I trust his RB claim so far. jmurph confirmed town

[Toon Fighter]

Uite seems distracted and disinterested on the game, but I can see him being scum. nhammen is hard to read, but I will check him again

[Toon Fighter]

NS seems town enough to me, and I am town.

[Toon Fighter]

k, I'll try that next time

[Toon Fighter]

I'm uncomfortable doing this, but I don't want someone ending the day just yet, and I am not so sure a silver lynch would be beneficial to town. So,

unvote

Will rethink and cast my vote again tomorrow

[Toon Fighter]

I could get behind a Pine lynch, but I see no case against him. Can someone make a convincing case? If so, I'll hop in

[Toon Fighter]

That's... good to know, mastin

[Toon Fighter]

Why do you believe silver is town, Pine?

[Toon Fighter]

I already came up with that exact same case against mastin D2, Pine, so you are just copying me. I am not liking silver's recent response to the wagon on him, just lamenting himself, so my vote is going back on him.

vote: silverbullet

I still don't see any case on Pine, so I don't like the votes he is getting right now.

[Toon Fighter]

no, not yet. If you believe Maxous is scum, vote him

[Toon Fighter]

Are you claiming VT, Uite? In your VC, it says VT under your name

[Toon Fighter]

Uite, have you looked at yourself? You had 3 bs votes (voted me, unvoted the day after, voted into a DK wagon that never went anywhere D1, failed to vote D2, and D3 same thing, a stupid vote on a confirmed town, and now no votes for a few days), never showed up to any decent wagon, lurked throughout the game, waited to hammer DK. Your scumhunting is resumed to basically the VCA post, and even that has no real comment to it, its just a collection of data. You think we should lynch mastin, Pine, me, jmurph, although you haven't analysed anything yet. You may have been sick, but it has been enough time to catch up by now. Also, you have an unexplained and unnecessary VT claim and a column seems to be missing from your VCA. Who was there? scumslip much?

[Toon Fighter]

oh I see, dead and alive, sorry for that one

[Toon Fighter]

Wait, nevermind. We've won this.

And of course, my preference would be Pine/Silver, as our lynch/vig. Leaving tomorrow with eight alive, and three suspects. Nhammen, Zepher, and Maxous. In the worst-case scenario where we mislynch today, have a misvig tonight, and mislynch tomorrow, that's seven going into night, with two suspects alive. One vigged, leaving five alive. Worst-case scenario, I'm wrong about one of my town-reads, we still haven't hit scum, and there are five alive, lylo. One being the last suspect in the list.

But I don't think any of my town-reads are wrong. So, yeah. We win.

Also, Pine, if you're a town RB like you claim, you need to block someone inside of those names. And a doctor if existing should protect OUTSIDE those names.

We do not want the vig's kill stopped.

You forgot the scum kill tonight

[Toon Fighter]

I could get on a Maxous lynch too, and since I don't see this day going anywhere

unvote, vote: Maxous

[Toon Fighter]

why?

[Toon Fighter]

@ Uite: I was the first to attack DK during D2

[Toon Fighter]

After reading the recent interactions between Max and Mastin, I believe more and more that maxous is scum, and I don't know why aren't more people voting him. Pine already said he suspected him, and his vote would be far more useful on max than it is on mastin right now. Silver is sucking ass, so he could at least help us lynch a sum. Uite's OMGUSing me, and he could help us lynch this scum today instead of pointlessly attack me. Come on people!

[Toon Fighter]

@ mastin: can you provide a link to those rambles? I'd love to read them

[Toon Fighter]

Nice strategy mastin

[Toon Fighter]

I do, and did find Maxous suspicious, I just had better places to put my vote on before the last few days. I was off during D1, and D2 was DK time. silver seemed better for the first time of D3, but now it's time to go on Maxous. And I'm liking this wagon very much so far.

[Toon Fighter]

If he were, he prob would have claimed that by now

[Toon Fighter]

I am no longer confirmed town?

[Toon Fighter]

What was a lynch? to my accounts, Max is still at L-1

[Toon Fighter]

I still prefer a Max lynch over a Mastin lynch, but would love to see mastin flip

[Toon Fighter]

moar postz pleaze

[Toon Fighter]

How many claimed players do we even have already?

jmurph
Uite
Maxous (all VT)
Pine (RB)

Any more?

[Toon Fighter]

I believe Mastin will flip VT and ruin our so far perfect lynch record. However, it isn't that bad a lynch, since it gives us a lot of info regarding connections and accusations he made.

Still, if he really is mafia, I must say I am very very surprised

[Toon Fighter]

Also, if mastin gets lynched, who is Pine blocking tonight? I propose Max

[Toon Fighter]

I haven't decided. I think I won't declare, for if I did, the remaining scum could just choose not to have that person perform the kill.

Then you don't believe mastin is scum? Why are you voting for him?

unvote, vote: Pine

[Toon Fighter]

Just to make myself clear:

- It is believed we had 4 scum in this game
- Two scum are dead, leaving two more
- Pine is voting mastin, and said he believed mastin was scum
- Therefore, if mastin dies (according to Pine) there is only one scum alive
- If there is only one scum alive, mastin's plan (RB suspects) can be put to use, since scum can't have another player make the kill
- Pine said scum might have a different player perform the NK

Ergo, one of these assumptions is wrong. I believe that Pine is lying about something therefore Pine is scum

[Toon Fighter]

Mastin, where are thou? Can you claim?

[Toon Fighter]

Die, scum

vote: mastin

[Toon Fighter]

jic,

unvote, vote: mastin

That was a vig counterclaiming

[Toon Fighter]

Why do you keep lying, mastin?

[Toon Fighter]

I didn't wait for the night because you could be a BP something

[Toon Fighter]

I aimed at Max last night.

[Toon Fighter]

I seriously expected to be dead by now.

vote: Pine

RB me was scummy as hell. Seriously, I had just cc a vig and lynched him. You are obvscum RB.

[Toon Fighter]

I killed Wraith N1 because he seemed scummy to me, just like DK, but I figured DK was easier to lynch D2, so I went for the hard one of the two. Plus, with Wraith dead I could focus on getting DK lynched. Unfortunately, I missed my shot, but at least we got a scum lynched D2.

I killed Surye N2 because of DK's gambit, and because of the way Surye reacted to it, refusing to take a bullet for the town. Plus, Mastin was suggesting his kill, and I trusted mastin (until he claimed vig).

I shot at Max N3 because the wagon that was built on him seemed to be thrown of by scum to get mastin lynched. I still believe in Max scum, but Pine RB me is just wrong play. Plus, a scum team RB me and killing jmurph tonight makes absolute sense for the scum POV, eliminating the possibility of a vig kill on scum and possibly setting me up for today's lynch, as well as getting rid of the only confirmed town we had left.

[Toon Fighter]

He had lurked throughout D1, but from the posts he made he looked like he could be on Amor's scumteam. I don't remember exactly why I chose him, but tomorrow I'll look more into it.

Why were the only options NS and me? Why not Max or MrZepher, the two players mastin town attacked when alive?

[Toon Fighter]

I could vote Max right now, and I'm inclined to do it, but I don't like Pine's play. He forgot about the game?

[Toon Fighter]

I still hold my theory of a {Max, Pine} scum team, but I don't really see how these last posts/votes fit the theory. I'm gonna think about it and later tell my thoughts

[Toon Fighter]

[pine is at L-2]

[Toon Fighter]

@silver: What is your opinion on Pine RB me?

[Toon Fighter]

Why would scum keep me (a vig) alive and kill a VT instead? The only explanation is that they RB me. That means they have a RB in their team. And the only RB that we know of is Pine, that has claimed to have RB me. Therefore, Pine is a probable scum RB.

Pine, can you remind us of who you RB N1 and N2?

[Toon Fighter]

The only other possible explanation is that scum thought I was a SK, or that I would miss my shot tonight. Because of yesterday's play, I was likely gonna shoot Max or Mr Zepher, but most likely Max. That leaves with the following options:

1) Pine is scum RB and RB me last night to prevent me from killing scum (most likely to me)
2) There is another RB, scum aligned, and Pine is RB town aligned (not very likely, I don't believe we have 2 RB in this game)
3) Scum thought I was SK (possibly NK immune) and didn't bother to shoot me (maybe, but I could still hit scum in that scenario)
4) Scum thought I was gonna miss my kill, that was likely on Max last night (the other possibility, but we can only be sure if Pine flips)

Therefore, if Pine is innocent, Max is likely innocent aswell. If Pine is scum, Max is also likely to be scum

[Toon Fighter]

@Pine: In your opinion, all townies should be dead before LyLo. First mastin, now me...

[Toon Fighter]

what do you guys think of a massclaim now? Who hasn't claimed yet?

[Toon Fighter]

Pine

- why do you think you made a mistake roleblocking Toon Fighter last night?

Because he didn't expect to be attacked because of it

[Toon Fighter]

Mr Zepher, what do you think of Uite and silverbullet?

[Toon Fighter]

I saw your hint, but I was already voting Pine at the time.

[Toon Fighter]

I will only accept a Pine or a Max lynch today

[Toon Fighter]

I just ISO'd NS and I can totally see the case on him. Plus, his interactions with mastin/max may point to a Max/NS scum team.

unvote, vote: NS

The wagon on Pine is dying, and I prefer to have my vote on someone who is actually lynchable

[Toon Fighter]

@Toon: There is no NS/Max scumteam so you may forget that reasoning.

Anyway -

v/la until the 19'th

There may not be one, but I can't know that -.-

[Toon Fighter]

What about nhammen? He has been quiet, just accusing other players without very much attention. What is your opinion on him?

[Toon Fighter]

I don't like lynching a player that lurks so much without hearing from him, but he is giving us no choice

[Toon Fighter]

Gah! This game is so difficult!

unvote, vote: Zepher

I believe KoC was telling the truth. I also believe that scum is within the {Max, Pine, Zepher} group. I am not liking NS's play, but I am gonna give KoC the benifit.

Uite is sorta confirmed VT from his votecount. nhammen is playing pro-town so far. If we are going to believe KoC breadcrumb, NS is innocent. silverbullet's play last Day pretty much confirmed him as town. That leaves us with the scum trio that I mentioned earlier and me. I am a vig, so the scum are between {Max, Pine, Zepher}. I don't believe I can get Pine lynched today, but if my kill doesn't go through tonight I believe the town will do their job and lynch him tomorrow, so he is not our top priority. Therefore, we lynch either Zepher or Max today. Since the Zepher wagon has way more potential to go to the end than a Max lynch, I am gonna support it.

I want you to claim now, Mr Zepher

[Toon Fighter]

I have read MrZepher's claim. I do not like it.

[Toon Fighter]

I'm here, but your discussion isn't that interesting

[Toon Fighter]

Remember, if we don't get two kills tonight, we lynch Pine tomorrow

[Toon Fighter]

Why is that, Zeph?

[Toon Fighter]

unvote

[Toon Fighter]

Yeah, Zepher, what did you do?

[Toon Fighter]

I don't know if we should trust Zpeh's claim, but I want to hear the full claim before I vote him or someone else

[Toon Fighter]

re-reading KoC play from D2, it seems to me that he may have had a guilty on DK, or an innocent on mastin. That, coupled with MrZeph claim, gives us absolutely nothing in terms of information except putting NS back in the suspect list.

I will believe Zeph's claim unless someone else CC's, and I am going to turn to my next favourite suspect:

vote: Pine

I kinda guess what your last 2 powers may be, but I don't need further clarification on that.

[Toon Fighter]

Pine, stop with the WIFOM shenanigans. I can totally see scum missing their kill for the opportunity to lynch me tomorrow. Even more now, that you gave them the idea. I am Vig, I play for town, and I win with town. You have made a worst town play than me, robbing us of a free kill (Max) that would have helped us a lot today. I prefer to see you lynched and give Zeph the benifit of the claim, if only to get him lynched tomorrow.

[Toon Fighter]

I don't care about my survival tomorrow. You just care about yours. And don't come OMGUS'ing me, you are the sum in here, not me.

Bah, I'm not gonna explain it anymore, I am vig, you'll see when I get NK tonight (unless I get protected, since I don't have NK immunity).

At least I hope you have the decency to admit you were wrong when I die.

[Toon Fighter]

Well, if NS flips town, we know who to kill tonight, so

unvote, vote: NS

I just hope Pine drops the idiot ball, and, if town, blocks someone actually useful for town -.-

[Toon Fighter]

By blocking someone useful for town, I mean blocking someone that harms town. Sorry if the post came out confusing :s

I propose that we kill/block in the {Max, Zeph} pair, depending on NS's flip

[Toon Fighter]

The only other possible explanation is that scum thought I was a SK, or that I would miss my shot tonight. Because of yesterday's play, I was likely gonna shoot Max or Mr Zepher, but most likely Max. That leaves with the following options:

1) Pine is scum RB and RB me last night to prevent me from killing scum (most likely to me)
2) There is another RB, scum aligned, and Pine is RB town aligned (not very likely, I don't believe we have 2 RB in this game)
3) Scum thought I was SK (possibly NK immune) and didn't bother to shoot me (maybe, but I could still hit scum in that scenario)
4) Scum thought I was gonna miss my kill, that was likely on Max last night (the other possibility, but we can only be sure if Pine flips)

Therefore, if Pine is innocent, Max is likely innocent aswell. If Pine is scum, Max is also likely to be scum

Also, nhammen added that scum might not have killed me because of possible doc protection.

Just one more thing: What about Pine? He claimed RB and lived for 2 whole nights. Instead of him, scum killed a possible cop and a confirmed VT. Why? Why would scum give away the possibility of killing a town RB just to kill a VT? It doesn't make much sense to me. That, plus the fact that he blocked me, puts Pine back in the suspect list (plus, his attacks on mastin and his defence of NS)

[Toon Fighter]

I just thought it was a possibility...

[Toon Fighter]

I just don't see you as confirmed town yet, I have my suspicions...

[Toon Fighter]

V/LA till Sunday, 26 June

[Toon Fighter]

Bah. Missed 3 times, should have shot Pine when I had the chance -.-

Stupid Zepher and Mastin fakeclaims cost town the game