Newbie 1103: Just Another Chaotic Town (Game Over)

[Meransiel]

Vote: Staeg

Never trust a short name.

Also, to whomever is new, I wish you good luck and welcome you to the site!

[Meransiel]

Starting to love my choice.

[Meransiel]

How so? Are you a short-name-vote-above-poster hater?

Nope, basically, here's my line of thought:

RVS sets the targets for RQS and even wagons. Scum clearly don't want attention to them this early in-game, so they have to be careful about a couple things that usually raise eyebrows in RVS.

A couple of things...they don't want their vote to be on somebody already being voted, no sheeping in RVS. Second, they don't want to vote someone that has not posted yet, cause said person may

[Meransiel]

continue being a slowass, something which may be subject to interpretation later.

Solution? Vote x for being the poster above me, this done early. Not a definite scumtell in itself, yes, but an interesting unessential thing to keep in mind.

By the way, sorry for cutting my post in halves like that, using a PSP, has a char cap.

[Meransiel]

Yes, yes it does. Beauty of Mafia is that you can call out someone for anything, just notifying what stands out for you at different points in the game helps you get a clean game, where everybody knows WHY they're voting, and everybody knows WHAT to defend against.

FS is...awkward. Feeling inclined to ask Thor about how the meta generally deals with such occurences, actually. I guess we'll be ISO'ing her a lot later...

[Meransiel]

I concur, and also add:

Not voting 1st post and voting 2nd is weird. Not voting 1st post and then voting the very first person to put a vote (RVS reason be damned) is straight up exotic.

[Meransiel]

Yeah, aswell. As long as they are actually meaningful later on, nothing wrong with exotic.

@Miss JJ - LOL @ your stalking

[Meransiel]

Believe me, it'll go away. Hard.

[Meransiel]

@FS: It's...a mouth of fresh air to see an utterly believable post. Yes, playing on MafiaScum is an aquired skill, you have to, at times, give up on what you instinctively think is a good playstyle and follow the meta.

And that is a good thing.

[Meransiel]

@Staeg: It is popular to pressure wagon someone day 1, tis true, you get info from VCA.

However, why Elsa? From what you said yourself, you're basically going on lurking, and...it's only page 2, most people have just a couple posts in. Thor has not done a thing, why not vote him instead?

Hypothetically speaking, of course. I hate "lynch all lurkers".

@FS: Welcome. Also, games take as long as they must (they, like, hit the deadline all the time). Important is to get a few dozen pages of content out of em

[Meransiel]

Oh, didn't notice Quil and Elsa have the same number of posts, good catch there.

But he was making a point there, voting Elsa over Quil to start a wagon, as Elsa had a vote on her already. That STILL doesn't explain why he didn't vote Thor.

Ninja'd

@Trip: game started before he announced V/LA.

[Meransiel]

@Staeg: My real question is, what do you want Elsa to say? She wasn't asked specific questions, she doesn't have much content to comment on, she doesn't even have things to defend against.

@Miss JJ: RQS is a round of random questions players put to one another. Like, gmt, when they're active, if they played Mafia elsewhere, if they like being scum or town more...

Anyway, I put that question because Thor gets back in 2 days anyway, so not long, and also because there's not much that Elsa would need/could

[Meransiel]

respond to. At this point, it's not really horrible to take a closer look at the more active players: you, Trip, Staeg, FS, myself, and expect everyone else to join in and partake at some point.

[Meransiel]

Well, who you're playing with does alter a game dramatically. Frankly, the more you play the better you get because you meet more people.

[Meransiel]

*and the Title goes to*

Nah, joking. Glad we share beliefs, Trip. Now, since she's up and around:

@FS: What do you think about Trip and Staeg thus far?

[Meransiel]

Uh, sorry about the "she" again. Your name strikes me as female, dunno why.

[Meransiel]

You could ask me why am I not including Miss JJ as well. One step at a time.

But yeah, FS, for what it's worth, what's your take on me?

[Meransiel]

@Trip: So you think I'm scum already? Heh, remind me to replace out in a game if you get vig. *amused*

@Miss: You is you is you. A ninja is someone who posts while you type. And i was picking at random for FS.

Timezone in Eden is GMT+2. Yours?

[Meransiel]

You were kidding, Trip wasn't. So had to mention.

A vig is a pro-town that can kill on his own. No such thing in Newbie, thankfully...

[Meransiel]

You weren't kidding when pointing out I asked FS only about 2 people. And yes, it's on.

< Romanian btw

[Meransiel]

I...may have misunderstood the word "facetious".

*facepalms self*

[Meransiel]

First time I saw Elsa's observation about Scumhunter, top be perfectly honest, It felt like SHE was trying too hard. But this post doesn't feel right, and so I feel justified to:

Unvote

Vote: Scumhunter

That is L-1. If somebody quicklynches he will be considered scum. Don't do stupid things, people.

LOL one thing I notice about this site is there seems to be a "playbook" where there are rules about what is a towntell or what is scummy, etc. I usually just make my own decisions about what I think. Not everyone is cut out of the same cloth and I can't see looking at it that way.

Those playbooks are for...reaching common ground. Relying only on personal thoughts and tells is good for nightpicking someone as a PR, but not for convincing others to go for the right lynch.

[Meransiel]

Hmmm, I've read everything so far, and while I kinda want to vote Scumhunter for being scummy so far, I won't. That's only because I don't want to hammer when people still haven't seen the game.

We have plenty of time to go over everybody ho has posted, and for everyone to give content. Any premature hammer goes directly against what's beneficial for town. Plus, I'm not sure yet (and so should feel everybody on the wagon) he's scum, which is perfectly normal for Page 4.

[Meransiel]

Oh my! What a handful.

I'm not scummy. You guys just play bad. Get it right. L-1 on page 4?

It's interesting how you deflect the fact that this is a PRESSURE wagon and you're likely not getting lynched anyway, by simply complaining that you're being wagoned so quickly. But nice try, anyway.

Meransiel, why don't you like that post I made? Is it because it is proposing a new idea of how to play this game that you are not used to? If you have a reason to think I am necessarily scum, please give it so I can defend myself. Otherwise, not really sure why you are voting me. We should be generating discussion, not quick lynching.

Quick lynching is not the point of order here. It is, while not generating discussion, beating discussion out of people . And @ everyone who feels a newbtown is inclined to hammer for the heck of it: no, this is NOT how things generally happen. Have a little fate in each other. But the really important part that must be argued here is this alleged "new way of playing" that Scumhunter is boasting about.

Which essentially boils down to: I got a town PM at the beginning of this game, and you MUST accept that I did and I'm not lying. I don't have to contribute or prove in any way or form that I'm a member of the town, AtE takes care of that. And if it doesn't, I'll just call everyone voting me a Lawful Stupid, Wiki Worshiping player. Comprendre?

Personally, I like to generate my reads from reading interactions between players etc.

That's really hard to do this early in the game. Point of order: you didn't even do it yet.

VOTE: Meransiel


For putting Scumhunter at L-1 unnecessarily at this early stage. This is a newbie game and not all of the newbies may understand not to hammer. I think it is a bad bad move.

Yes, they do understand not to hammer. It's as simple as that: "Dude, don't hammer". And, once again, pressure is the point here. And if you really want to be convinced Scumhunter isn't getting enough of it, read his ISO. Though, this looks like a sign of genuine care for the well-being of town, so you're looking pretty town to me right now.

That post didn't sit right with me either... but could you please elaborate on it and explain why it caused you to make the vote?

Putting someone at L-1 WITHOUT explaining why and then warning that the NEXT vote is what makes people scummy-looking.... well that just doesn't sit quite right with me. If you were mafia, it would seem like you're trying to secure some immunity that way by passing the burden/blame onto the next one.

This is only page 5. Thor isn't around. Some have barely posted. Putting someone that close at such an underdeveloped stage of the game bugs me. I agree with JJ.

Unvote, Vote: Meransiel

I didn't explain why because it felt pretty self-explanatory at the time. Just...read the simplified version of Scumhunter's play I wrote above, in this post, and you'll get the point.
Also, we don't get Mafia points or super-powers or cookies or whatever and nothing weird happens the closer you get to a lynch. Somebody under

L-1

and somebody under

L-2

are indistinguishable rule-wise. I'm not securing immunity with that, I know putting someone at L-1 is (borderline) risky. But let me ask you something...do you really

believe

Scumhunter doesn't deserve that level of pressure?

Ahaha, someone said seemed like I was trying too hard. I always try hard. I like winning, regardless of alignment. I probably take the game too serious at times too.

I said Elsa was trying too hard with her initial reason of voting for you. But, at the same time, I find your posts AFTER that way more scummy.

And now, let's argue with other people! .

First I'll address Meransiel, who I am cautious of due to his position on the wagon AND his reasoning for voting. My vote on scumhunter had a grain of truth behind the idea, but it was still based off of a single post. To run someone up to L-1 for it is worrying. We don't need claims this early. Meransiel said he voted for Scumhunter because a certain post "doesn't feel right" and gave no further explanation. You have to give something more than that. It's always scummy to give weak or non-reasons to vote on someone. Meransiel is my number 2 for a vote right now.

First I'll address Meransiel, who I am cautious of due to his position on the wagon AND his reasoning for voting. My vote on scumhunter had a grain of truth behind the idea, but it was still based off of a single post. To run someone up to L-1 for it is worrying. We don't need claims this early. Meransiel said he voted for Scumhunter because a certain post "doesn't feel right" and gave no further explanation. You have to give something more than that. It's always scummy to give weak or non-reasons to vote on someone. Meransiel is my number 2 for a vote right now.

I'm not basing my vote on a single post, I'm basing it on his whole way of posting and line of thought (and the fact he did nothing but defend himself, not commenting on other people, barring me, which is, in itself, anti-town). You've been basing your vote on a single post, though, which I myself have considered a bit of a stretch.

Staeg, when you vote someone, and then tell them this:

Also: Don't claim yet. I promise you won't be hammered until you do, but you can still wiggle out of the lynch without giving maf priceless info.
Don't get overdefensive -- just look for scumtells/scumslips and point them out.

It kind of defeats the purpose of putting pressure on someone. I don't think this is entirely scummy right now, but to coach someone when you're trying to pull reactions from them does not make much sense.

This is a Newbie Game. I don't even have to say why coaching is not a scumtell.

Also:
@Your view on FireStorm: Active lurking is, among other things, the tell of a newbie player who doesn't exactly know how to enter the conversation and still learning how to post consistently. Aka: a null tell if you're facing somebody who is new.

By the way, Elsa, you say (directly and without reserve) that lynching Scumhunter is a bad idea. I have to ask you to clarify this, are you saying it is a bad idea NOW (which I completely agree) or a bad idea, fullstop?

What Meransiel did was stupid, yes, but only once in my entire Mafia career, both here, face to face and on private forums, I have never ever seen a newbie hammer someone at L-1. So I think that perhaps there was a slight overreaction to Meransiel's fail. I'll take a closer look at why people are now voting for him.

I'll also try to get some thoughts up on FireStorm later today.

No, what I did wasn't stupid. It was slapping the face of someone who was being reasonlessly arrogant about himself. And all you do is inflate that ego by admitting I was wrong (and stupid).

As long as there is no hammer and no claim, how is L-1 disastrous? Aside from SOME PEOPLE WHO INSTA-HAMMER CAUSE THEY CAN, I don't see what's the problem for pressure.

This sums it up quite nicely.

[Meransiel]

Anyway, FireStorm just ninja'd me, and I have to congratulate her for that!

[Meransiel]

So:

@Staeg: The "town-why-the-heck-are-you-lynching-me" card can be played by both town and mafia. Do you deny this?
@FS: Why are you voting Staeg over Quilford and me? From your post up there, it feels like your reason is gut.

[Meransiel]

@Staeg: Exactly the point. We need not consider the people we're playing with as goldfish with no skill. Plus, it's not so hard to blacklist a player who is stupid enough to hammer Day 4 while having a pro-town role.

Also I would expect more frustration from town about to be hammered than I saw in Scumhunter, but I think this could probably be put down to disbelief in someone hammering.

EBWOP: YO EQUINOX WHAT UP

Not really disbelief as much as arrogance. And, as has been stated, resorting to insults is pointless and indicative that you have nothing constructive to say.

[Meransiel]

What other reasons?

[Meransiel]

What other reasons?

This is gonna sound scummy, but I'll choose to wait until it completes its purpose before saying the reson for my vote.

It isn't.

I don't understand. What isn't?

[Meransiel]

At this rate, I will soon become notorious as "The One Who Catches Up".

@Meransiel... No, I didn't think that the L-1 on Scumhunter was deserved. That was the whole point of my post and vote changing..

I know what you posted, I have eyes. But just because you post something it doesn't mean that you're convinced of it. Or that you don't have second thoughts.

I will say this clear and simple. I was lynched, and lynched people myself, for doing what Scumhunter has been doing in a good chunk of his posts, i.e. dismissing votes/cases on him like they're nothing and overstating his townieness like crazy. So that's probably why it strikes me as jarring that everybody considers him obvtown here. But it'll go nowhere, and from what I understand from Thor this is his usual play, so I will make a (profoundly) reluctant:

Unvote

I'm not seeing Scumhunter as scum at the moment either; I didn't really expect his wagon to grow to L-1. I voted him for pressure and to see how he would react - we've got those reactions now and the bandwagon is thinning out.

Now all that's left to do is analyse the reactions themselves.

That never happened. And probably never will. Ohwell, I may be just an easy to surprise person.

@Thor's wall at #145:

First, on what don't you agree with me? Would really wanna know.
Second, you comment on Staeg following Quil and Elsa on a wagon made without any "tell worth spit", finding it scummy. But what about Quil himself?
Thirdly, I think you made a good catch with Staeg instantly dropping pressure from Scumhunter, will remember it for later.

I also don't quite understand your attitude regarding Page 5 - did you find my putting of Scumhunter at L-1 as something stupid or you think the others should have left their votes there for longer? Although, in retrospect and unrelated, I do agree that at that time Staeg looked kind of *too* ok with my vote, sensing a mislynch will happen.

Your question addressed to me - my case on Scumhunter was pretty much heartless, honestly. Like, at that point, I felt there wasn't much of a need for a case to prove he was scum, it was THAT obvious. But if that's really how he plays, I submit.

'nother thing and I'm done: at the end of the post, you called FS probtown. You also didn't point to ANYTHING townish FS-related in the rest of your post. Why?

oh it's tempting

based on the evidence in front of you, who would you suspect if Staeg flipped town?

Feels like railroading tbh...

Hey guys. Just watched Survivor Finale and started reading Thor's post. Thor, I'm just gonna say that it's not really helpful to me to see statements like "page 2 - TripMyWire is town, banking on it." (just an example) I'd like to see what specifically on page 2 leads you to that. I'll get to more comments/questions about your post, as well as posts I just saw after yours, in a bit and I'm glad to see you think I'm "half-intelligent"... I think.

This push from JJ feels pretty town. Followed immediately with a questions post.

Woo, Firestorm is getting down to business! And...stops...

I agree with everyone that it's rude of FS, putting another game from another site above this one.

Thor's post looks like genuinely answering questions up-front, not going around them, which is something pretty townish.

Elsa's apology is weird, provided all of her posts had a strong impact on events and no fluff. But, alas, I don't think this matters in terms of alignment.

I am appalled that Trip thought I was deflecting blame with that "don't hammer, hammerers will be treated as scum" post. I call it "sensible caution". Also, be noted, I don't always have access to a computer, and as I had to write a rather long post for tis', I chose to do it later. I know that disappearing when attention thins on you is generally a scumtell, but there - real life reason. I will be probably doing this from time to time - catch-up walls. Sorry for that!

@Elsa: Thanks for clarifying. I find it reasonable.

Page 8:

Lol, Scumhunter coming back for za vin. He is sounding more townish though...I know there are people who simply don't want to participate actively in RVS cause it's messy. Regardless of alignment. I am slightly surprised his strongest town read is Elsa though.

Hah, an actually good joke from Thor.

Miss JJ looks a bit sheepy with her voting of Staeg, but I have a general town read on her, so it's not really relevant.

Oo, she unvoted! . Scum would be much more opportunistic than that. Especially as Quilford already stated that he wants to hammer. I don't agree with her case on TMW, though, but it's a fresh opinion that we may have to take into consideration.

@Elsa: If you don't want to be monitored, stay invisible. Like me . Slightly misrep of JJ there though.



Anyway, my reads (subject to change):

Town: Miss JJ, Thor
Slight town: TMW, subject to change
I have no idea: Sorry, still Scumhunter
Scum: Staeg, any other scum reads I may have are so thin they can go as well to Null.

Lolsorry, it's very hard for me to form many opinions on people.

[Meransiel]

Come on, you're doing this on purpose >:(. I'm not even going to give a fuck.

[Meransiel]

You acted as if I was stupid for putting that question.

[Meransiel]

@Staeg: I have to put up with that 5 days a week. Hence the walls. Anyway, questions:

Why can't you read me?
Why did you change your opinion on Scumhunter? You claimed you don't think he was scum, and now you're going back on it.

[Meransiel]

@Staeg: Not scumhunting and telling us we're "doing it wrong" were things Scumhunter was doing BEFORE you said you don't think he's scum. So basically your suspicion on Scumhunter is omgus. And your case on Miss is bad too.

@TMW: How can you say you don't like Scumhunter's style, when you're voting me for the same reason?

[Meransiel]

No, you daft, I hate Scumhunter's style as much as you do, and you're voting me for it!

God, I swear if you misunderstand on purpose what I say again, I'm replacing out.

[Meransiel]

It's kind of your job to figure that out tbh.

But a list of updated reads would be real nice.

[Meransiel]

Could you sorta...um...expand on that?

[Meransiel]

Nope. Just curious 'bout the actual reasoning behind the vote.

[Meransiel]

Because last time I voted Scumhunter everyone was like ohnoez.

Also I'm waiting for the rest of the people to post.

[Meransiel]

Ah, what the fuck. I'd do anything to steer discussion.

[Meransiel]

Vote: Scumhunter

[Meransiel]

Yeah, we're cool. Also, agreed. We simply can't figure out if Firestorm's scum or not cause the way he acts is not indicative of anything. So yes, moving in for a replace.

Miss JJ as a night kill strikes me as...odd. Actually not odd as much as totally random. I mean, she seemed fairly town, to me at least, but there seem to be better targets nonetheless. Thor, Quilford...but it never even crossed our mind to lynch her, so that could've been relevant enough. I don't think the night kill reveals much, no, and that is probably the desired effect.

[Meransiel]

@Scumhunter: I have no reason to think Thor is town? Really? He's being cryptic, really?

I said the L-1 was heartless. Then, as the day progressed, you were becoming scummier and scummier, and everybody else thought for some arcane reason you're being pro-town, so I had to abandon the matter. But this is a new day, a new start, and, of course, a new round of getting you killed.

Ooh, and what's that in the distance? Ow yeah, it's you heavily buddying with Quilford, the towniest player according to majority. Some more scumpoints, I will say. Also giving Thor townpoints for agreeing with him...just terrible...

Meransiel is a guy... just found out today. I've always thought he was a girl too... must be the name and the picture.

Yeah, male angel names and images of Lucifer have that effect.

@FS: So basically you're voting me because you have no read on me but Thor asked you to. A bit opportunistic ai? (though I am glad you posted SOMETHING)

That's not saying I'm preferring a FS lynch. No, Hunter slipped my grip yesterday but now I'm definitely not letting go.

[Meransiel]

All the above is WIFOM.

Anyway, I find it hilarious that you both have no read of me, and have me as your 2nd scum read.

[Meransiel]

@FS: I don't need to give reasons why I am town (nor shout it out loud, ahem). But you need to explain why you're suspecting someone based on elimination this early in the game, and, by extension, why you have so many town reads. Because we all know who knows who is town .

Well...let's just say my null read on you is slowly dying...

@Scumhunter: You make me imagine you with big puppy eyes. I hate puppies.

[Meransiel]

Scumhunter's perspective change of Thor is weird given its suddenness. Not a tell tho.

Anyway, tbh I am ok with either FS or Hunter getting hanged at this point. It's also relevant that Scumhunter's jabs at FS are quite unlike bussing. So a FS flip would be pretty indicative of SH's alignment.

ninja'd: Judging by your play, I think you're scum. Hence my vote being on you.

[Meransiel]

Laptop being a bitch, will post a catchup tomorrow. Consider this a prod dodge.

[Meransiel]

Ahhhhh...much better. So one at a time:

I've never heard of the angel Meransiel... where does it come from?

My imagination. -iel is still a male suffix tho.

1 - WIFOM isn't scummy, it's just bad logic to be trapped within. This *might* be scummy, but it's a very large stretch to take a newbie doing WIFOM and calling it a scumtell. I'll take it by you doing this that you're accusing him of being an experienced enough player that he should know better than to WIFOM? Where do you come to that conclusion?

Or it could be WIFOM because he can't support it because he knows the push is imaginary. Because he knows who's town .

Scumhunter is largely due to how genuine his posts read to me.

Yup, very genuine.

Spoiler: Scumhunter giving off towntells

However, a townie might also overstate the obvious to try and emphasize his towniness to the rest of the game. Yes, some might see it as a form of buddying, etc, but ya not really a scumtell particularly from me

I'm not scummy. You guys just play bad. Get it right. L-1 on page 4?

Staeg, I will admit I use a bit of appeal to emotion regardless of alignment. For some reason, people tend to think its a scumtell because they are so used to rote-analyzing "x= town, y= scum" without really thinking about why the actions they are interpreting are necessarily representations of anything. I think appeal to emotion is a great weapon for town-sided players that is underutilized. People just call it a scumtell because they are too bad to be able to read if its a townie actually trying to appeal to fellow townies or if its scum bullshitting.

MissJJ for awesomeness. (omg I need to stop buddying)

I prefer to take a back seat most of the time and watch things develop before taking a stand.

This game I have far more town reads which is why I'm willing to vote Staeg mostly on a strong hunch at this point.

Quilford, I see you said if Staeg flips town heavy suspicion to me and you certainly are following through with that with a vote...What can I do to change your mind?

Meransiel, you are wrong about me. I think its quite possible you are town, please reconsider?

Judge me on my play alone then and you should see I'm not mafia...

How am I scummy?

(Thor) You pointed out Quilford's town thought process which I definitely agree with...so town points for that.

I've posted at least my share of content I'd say.

Sarcasm implied.

Meransiel saying he’s okay with a Fire or Scumhunter lynch puts me on edge. It makes me think he’s scum just biding his time, waiting for the 'okay' from the town to drop a hammer.

I wasn't waiting to be "allowed" to hammer. Had I been doing that, I would've obviously forced a claim.

Give me the short version on your case on Scumhunter

1. He's calling accusations made against him bad/misguided play
2. He's motivating the fact that he's town by simply saying "I'm town" and "why don't you understand I'm town".
3. He's very wishy-washy with his reads, particularly on me and Thor, calling us both town and scum on a post by post basis.
4. Slight gut, tbh.

Also, why are you okay with voting Fire instead?

I'm sure I said why. Pay attention.

Again, not huge on the Fire wagon, but unlike TMW, Quil at least gave a reason for voting.

This sounds like looking on purpose for a reason to vote TMW. Notable for me, as though he's quite annoying, I find TMW to be a pretty town read.

Are we dredging back into that world where not explaining a vote right away is a scumtell and doing so is a town one? You know I'm emotionally against that for religious reasons.
So you don't agree with the town reads Quill has been given by the rest of the players?

I like the way you're using this to make TMW town and not using it to make me town (as I was being accused by Elsa of doing the same thing). Selectiveness should not be pro-town, I suppose?

@Everyone - newsflash - placing someone at L-1 isn't inherently scummy. I feel like everytime someone does it this game someone else is muttering that it's scummy. I'm pretty sure we'll have someone put someone else at L-1 when we're lynching scum, so... Please pay attention to motive more than votes, seriously. A vote is never scummy, it's a vote. Motive is scummy. If you can't explain the scummy motive than you probably don't actually have a scumtell.

Grateful for this tho.

@Quilford: Exactly how much are you leaning scum on Thor. Also, how certain are you of Elsa=town?
@TMW: If you're still interested (your question concerning the initial conversation-starting vote today), that was the initial purpose. Now, however, I've got a brand new stream of scummy posts from him, and I really feel no need to unvote. At all.

Quote tag fixed. (Equinox)

[Meransiel]

If you are town, you are the one who is playing bad letting your annoyance with my playstyle affect your game play.

What do you mean by this? TMW annoys me more than you, and I still have him as a town read. It's just you, and I'm making a direct quote:

giving off obvious scumtells

I'm not zoning in on you either, I'm giving my opinion on other's play as well, and you are simply my top scumread, but by NO means my only one.

For example, I'm having a hard time reasonably fathoming how a town-sided player could tunnel on me and focus just on me as hard as you have.

I'm also having a hard time living with the fact that you're not getting lynched, hence the attack attack attack mode.
By the way, that "pseudo-meta" thing you were saying about how scum always tunnel on you is logically flawed, I can easily see both alignments pushing for your death, and it's specifically stupid as you yourself stated meta is a very bad reason to suspect/vote someone.

And you don't see any of these as new player tells as opposed to scum tells?

That is another possibility, yes. Why do you consider it more likely than him being scum, may I ask?

[Meransiel]

It's not my job to get people to see me as town, it's my job to get scum lynched.

So, do you on an off chance still find SH suspicious?

[Meransiel]

I'm just looking at who may be in agreement with me about SH. Because I would be indeed wasting my energy on trying to lynch him if others didn't feel the same. Which would call for a new case on a new individual to give a fresh kick to discussion.

By the way, some peoplez, don't remember exactly who right now, said they're ok with discussing the night kill (Miss JJ). I would like to hear them out.

[Meransiel]

I don't want to discuss the nk, I want those that stated they will do it to live up to it.

[Meransiel]

Will post yet ANOTHER catchup post tomorrow. Lol, you guys must hate me for those (but I can't multiquote without a computer so...)

Anyway, to say something about the current discussion subject...I also think FS would be a better lynch than Thor. The link between his flip and Thor's alignment has been made evident, and I also think I pointed out a few pages back how FS flipping scum decreases suspicion on Scumhunter (as a bonus, in that situation I would get rid of the bugger).

[Meransiel]

Ok, let's.

How about we lynch Meran - because other people have been calling Meran town, if Meran flips scum than those people are more suspect, but if he flips town than maybe it's a bit of a null tell.

So you admit that my flip would be informative ONLY if I flip scum, though there are people that would give more info either way? :\. That's suboptimal.

Hmm... on a second read of what I just wrote, it sounded rather insulting and quite jerky. Sorry about that.

Clap hands for improvement.

Thor you actually had a lot of influence in getting me to vote Staeg.

Actually, Thor expressed his natural concern over you not voting for your top scumread. It is consistent with his pushing everyone to get their votes out, which is pretty pro-town.

Thor, you are being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative Stop it please. I'm speculating and brainstorming here, don't take my various theories too seriously yet. I'm thinking outloud here.

So...you admit to not contributing? Cool.
It's also cool that Scumhunter puts a post where he says "Yeah..I suspect Thor but he's useful and less scummy than FS and I can't get him lynched" and in the immediate next post votes for Thor. And then unvotes. And then asks for Quil's help. I think this is all just a pile of bs so he can claim to be active scumhunting while bringing nothing to the table.

Are you not voting either of us because you want people to chime in on whether or not they agree with you?

I tend to agree with this...in part. Quilford has been acting a lot as "voice of the majority, so you're supposed to agree". I wouldn't put it up as a scum tell just yet though.

etc etc etc scumhunter being wishy-washy etc ... it tends to strike me as more town than mafia though.

Because mafia doesn't benefit from shooting at random until something sticks, right?

The combination of his constant need for catchup posts and jumping on the bandwagon idea of "a FS/Thor lynch will give us info on the other's alignment" feels out-and-out like scum play to me. Pair those with the fact that I've had no read on him all game (that's probably not an accident)... let's turn up the heat.

I did not jump on the FS/Thor idea then and there. I already said why a FS flip would be informative from a different perspective before, and I ALSO said I was ok with a FS lynch before this was even brought up.
Also, from the feel of your post I udnerstand that you can't read people that have few and large posts, and by voting you would force me to normal-size them, so you can get a better read.

Well if that was it, forget it. The reason why I do those catch-ups is very real-life-ish and very verit, and I DO not have constant access to computers. It's just the way it is. If you really want that to change, wait 4 weeks for school to be over - or live with it.

he (Meransiel) tends to misinterpret a lot of things I say

No, it is totally the other way around. Quit being a prick.

as he would have had to justify a legitimate case on me for scum, which there just isn't since I'm obv town and all.

I love this. Keep digging.

That is L-1 I believe. Time for a claim.

Keep digging.

A claim isn't necessarily in order as I don't think a person's claimed role would affect my vote today all that much anyways.

Come on.

Meransiel is very likely scum to be through PoE

Good boy.

@Thor's 441:

Look, I'm really sorry. I wish I could post three times a day from a computer, to not have to do this. But you can't use it against me. I know what you're asking is reasonable and makes sense, but...

NINJA'D: Thor, I suck at VCA. Think it's a good idea right now?

Quote tag fixed. (Equinox)

[Meransiel]

Well I didn't actually have a CHOICE about the flaking. Hence it being site-wide.