Dynasty Warriors Mafia (Shu Victorious)

[Amrun]

/confirmed

Will forever refer to this poster as Bastard.

/confirm

[Amrun]

If we don't discuss it in thread, where can we discuss it? I don't know about you, bastard, but I'm not scum and I have nowhere to talk outside the thread.

[Amrun]

I don't know about you, bastard, but I'm not scum and I have nowhere to talk outside the thread.

Pre-Vote:

Amrun

Okay, I admit the joke wasn't as funny as it sounded in my head.

[Amrun]

What do you mean by the comment about me, Juls? Defending what? It was just a joke.

I think Juls' idea is better than the others, so far, but I don't know what she means by if someone flips scummy then they are scum. Can you explain this part?

Even that plan doesn't seem optimal, but I'm not sure I can think of anything better. If I do, I'll post it here, obviously.

[Amrun]

Oh, I see. Yes, that makes sense.

[Amrun]

Ludi, what is the difference between C-Worl's vote and DeityKabuto's vote? I think DK's is even worse, but they're both bad.

In fact:

VOTE: DeityKabuto

[Amrun]

UNVOTE: DeityKabuto

VOTE: Magistar Ludi

I wish I could add some stunning, convincing point to the case, but I can't think of one. RayFrost especially made some very good points that caused me to re-read ML carefully to find that I agree with the points made. This vote is better than my previous one.

inHim, I have yet to be told why making that joke was scummy. To be honest, I don't care that much. Your vote for such a thing at this stage of the game is weak. It was just a joke.

[Amrun]

I manipulated the mechanic in Execution Mafia as scum for a perfect victory. Link in my wiki.

It's not really important to this game at all, but you asked.

[Amrun]

I missed that stage of the game, but they ended up following my plan anyway. That day and every day, even when they didn't know it. I used the mechanic to my advantage.

I think it doesn't matter here. Just providing after the inquiry.

I also think Juls is town.

[Amrun]

I wish you would post normally, Vi. :/

[Amrun]

This strange and new Deity Kabuto is making me nervous.

[Amrun]

Why Juls?

[Amrun]

Amrun 196... Fluffposting evident.

...

Correction... Post 196 is spreading suspicion for the sake of spreading suspicion with immaterial reason.

...

Have you ever seen DK play? It's a drastic departure. DRASTIC.

I don't know what to make of it yet.

[Amrun]

This is normal Greytown play, as far as I can see. (For Juls)

[Amrun]

Hmm.

I am in that [redacted] game.

These posts are so different from Ludi.

I change my mind.

Unvote

VOTE: Deity Kabuto

I need to re-read this game asap.

[Amrun]

Greyice - who else do you think is scum?

ATM Magister Ludi, although he's probably a vig detector, and possibly Amrun for:

Hmm.
I am in that [redacted] game.
These posts are so different from Ludi.
I change my mind.

Unvote

VOTE: Deity Kabuto
I need to re-read this game asap.

Since Deity Kabuto has done nothing specifically scummy, and frankly given his past history is a free fucking mislynch. Which doesn't exempt him from being scum, but does mean I look hard at people floating to a wagon on him.

How am I floating to a wagon on DK? Iirc, I'm the only one to have placed a vote on him all game, because I thought his vote on the mykonian wagon was opportunistic and bad, which I pointed out the first time I voted for him.

The main thing that disturbs me about DK is his lack of VI behavior. I've played with and mislynched him before and it was flagrant and over the top VI behavior.

DK, why the sudden style shift? You have failed to address it so far even though I said something about it and GI did too.

It is nice that you're improving, if that's all it is, but it makes me suspicious the way it was done, like you're being more careful as scum.

RedC: I don't deny that I'm off my game. I'm having a hard time engaging with this game for some reason, probably due to all the setup and flavor spec. However, you seem to use that to accuse me of being scum. What about me being off my game suggests that I am scum? What about my scum game suggests that this is true? I will save you some time: my scum record is perfect and I have never been lynched as scum. I have never yet been off my game as scum, so why are you suggesting I am starting now?

P-edit: who pressured me to start scumhunting, elvis? P sure nobody did. And I stated why I got on the wagon and then why I got off. If you think I'm being opportunistic, how do you explain my vote on Deity Kabuto, who has no other votes? You're looking far more opportunistic than me atm.

Re-read and bemore content up when I can, as I said earlier.

[Amrun]

Grey: it's not that he's improving. It's just a drastic playstyle shift.

That being said, I think my vote will be on elvis_knits after the re-read. FoS elvis.

Not going to vote until I have read more carefully.

About Ludiscum: He was scum with Katsuki, and only popped in once in awhile to say something. Generally avoided commenting on the biggest events, though he did scumhunt enough to get people off of his back.

Here, he's commenting on the major happenings and offering new things, but more importantly, he didn't fly off the handle when rayfrost accused him, instead saying he could see that point of view. This doesn't fit how he acted as scum. He also drew attention to his being scumbuddies in that game with Katsuki, which I don't think he would have done as scum.

It's nothing definitive, but it was enough to take my vote off of him for now.

[Amrun]

I was mentioned, but never "told to scumhunt."

You didn't like my DK vote; Juls did. It's a matter of opinion.

Statement of top suspect or not is pending re-read. In general, your attacks on Mykonian and AGM were always bad. Bad attacks can come from town, but when it becomes a pattern, I pay attention more.

[Amrun]

I'm not giving excuses. Way to ignore the rest of that parahraph, Vi. I said that in order to question Red. I want to know what he was hoping to achieve by saying that and how it is indicative to scum. Context is important.

[Amrun]

No, I said I didn't like DK's vote on mykonian and that he's coming off as overly cautious. But that's all meta, I guess.

[Amrun]

And DK gave that same excuse for lack of scumhunting, without the context or purpose my statement had, but I am the only one who has supposedly committed this scumtell, regardless that all context of it was ignored.

Selective attacks much, Vi?

[Amrun]

Yes, that AND those things I said (vote and overly cautious). As in, in addition to. Is it that hard to understand?

P-edit: Whatever, Vi. If I have to address my so-far lack of interest in the game in order to question a possible suspect to determine his motivations, then I will.


Explain how DK did not commit the scumtell and I did. We should both be on your list for it, right?

P-edit: it seemed opportunistic, and if that vote was not serious, then you haven't scumhunted AT ALL, which is even more of a scumtell.

[Amrun]

Official Vote Count

Players needed to lynch: 11

Amrun

- 3 - DietyKabuto, elvis_knits, GreyICE - (L-8)

DietyKabuto

- 1 - Amrun - (L-10)

Drunken Unicorn Master

- 2 - RayFrost, InHimshallibe - (L-9)

elvis_knits

- 2 - Gammagooey, mykonian - (L-9)

GreyICE

- 3 - Vi, Juls, C-Worl - (L-8)

Iecerint

- 1 - Magister Ludi - (L-10)

Magister Ludi

- 4 - ToastyToast, Iecerint, Katsuki, Drunken Unicorn Master - (L-7)

RayFrost

- 1 - Maxous - (L-10)

ToastyToast

- 2 - AlmasterGM, RedCoyote - (L-9)

Players not voting: Bastard Bros

In reality, you haven't done ANYTHING, which is what makes you scummy.

[Amrun]

Yes, everyone should scumhunt and that's what's throwing me off. You're proud of not scumhuting, but even when I've seen you as bad town, you scumhunted. Badly, but you did do it.

And in this game I've seen you reverse on that issue. It makes me think that what's really reversed is your alignment.

Grey: I don't care.

[Amrun]

I already commented on that long ago. I think Juls' plan is the way to go, with the L-2 modification.

And I'm p sure duels end the day, with the possible exception of gammagooey, so we can't have 2 duels per day.

[Amrun]

I think Juls and gammagooey should be the non-scummy side of the duels, if we use them today.

I think our reads are bound to be more accurate later on, even day 2, so we should wait with the double duels. In fact, doesn't gamma need to win a duel first anyway?

I have said I am going to re-read the whole game with several things in mind and I am sure I will have more firm reads after that, but I've been phone posting all day and very busy. It's not going to happen right this second.

[Amrun]

What does that mean? You think I'm incompetent?

[Amrun]

I couldn't tell which way that comment was supposed to fall.

I still want Vi to answer my question:

What makes my "excuse" a scumtell but not Deity Kabuto's?

[Amrun]

Oh, Iecerint. I have townreads. Is it really worth it to share them? I don't think so, unless it becomes relevant.

[Amrun]

I have recently been re-thinking theory and I'm not sure it's wise to share townreads, or at least details on why someone is town, unless they come under pressure, particularly in the beginnings of large games.

In the middle/end, it becomes imperative, but I think it's better to observe on the first day and question scumspects.

Or I'm trying that out, in the very least.

[Amrun]

^ I think that's best reserved for later in the game. For now, I think we should seek to eliminate one scum and empower one townie.

[Amrun]

I have that paranoia too, to be honest.

But there's not much to substantiate it.

[Amrun]

RedC:

Why didn't I mention elvis before: because her attack on me made her third bad attack and that was one too many for me. At two, I just wanted to observe, though I did note it internally.

I liked some of her questions to me after I said that, though.

You didn't answer my question: you brought up meta, not me, but my meta doesn't support your statement. I have, so far, scumhunted a lot as scum. You say it's not all meta-based, but why bring up meta when it does not support your argument at all and cntradicts it?

[Amrun]

Except my own play hasn't changed.

[Amrun]

I don't recall a question about unvoting DK. Must have missed it. Was I defending it? Yes.

I didn't care or even particularly notice (as I recall) what EK says about my vote. I generally don't give a crap about how my vote looks as long as I believe that it's on scum. I voted DK because I didn't like his myko vote; I moved to Ludi when RayFrost's case convinced me, and back to DK when Ludi convinced me otherwise. That's all there is to it.

[Amrun]

Official Vote Count

Players needed to lynch: 11

Amrun

- 5 - DietyKabuto, elvis_knits, GreyICE, RedCoyote, Vi - (L-6)

DietyKabuto

- 1 - Amrun - (L-10)

Drunken Unicorn Master

- 5 - RayFrost, InHimshallibe, Maxous, ToastyToast, Bastard Bros - (L-6)

elvis_knits

- 2 - Gammagooey, mykonian - (L-9)

GreyICE

- 2 - Juls, C-Worl - (L-9)

Iecerint

- 1 - Magister Ludi - (L-10)

Magister Ludi

- 2 - Iecerint, Drunken Unicorn Master - (L-9)

ToastyToast

- 2 - AlmasterGM, Katsuki - (L-9)

Players not voting:

None

DK is trying to excuse herself from scumhunting and/or posting content and then trying to pass that offf as pro-town.

[Amrun]

Because I can't post every five seconds, I've given up, Vi? Jesus. I posted several times yesterday. Not sure what you want from me. Your pushes against have been strange and though I understand a coule of them, several of them, such as this one, really set off alarm bells in my mind.

I haven't been able to do the re-read I want, but I'll get around to it when I do. I still read everything that is posted.

Deity Kabuto
Elvis_Knits
Toasty (strange pushes, esp on Katsuki)
Vi
Inhim
Iecrint
RedCoyote
Magistar Ludi
AGM
GreyICE
RayFrost
Maxous
Mykonian
Juls

Scum->Town

It is 7am and this is all I have time for right now. I have been busy starting a family business and apparently I'm the only one who can do paperwork. This is our first retail weekend and it's a holiday, so I have 0 idea how much time I'll have. My goal for the weekend is to re-read this game. Effectively V/LA but I am not sure of my level of access.

P-edit: All/most of DK's posts have been useful and timidly non-confrontational. Scum tend to be that way.

[Amrun]

EBWOP: *unuseful

[Amrun]

Oops, I left people out of my list somehow. Tiredposting strikes again. DUM should go after Vi. Katsuki should go after RedCoyote.

[Amrun]

Oh, jeezus. That's what I get for posting in a sleepy haze.

I'll post a new list later that doesn't suck, but for now:

Gamma: town
C-worl: null leaning town
Bastard: Null

[Amrun]

Toasty: I never said you had bad reads, so nice misrep. I did, however, say you were pushing bad cases. Newsflash: you are. It is true that you pushed DUM more than Katsuki, but I dislike your "case" on Katsuki more than your case on DUM, though I dislike them both. Though while we're at it, if you reach the correct conclusion with incorrect logic, your conclusion is still incorrect: therefore, even if you are town and DUM and Katsuki are scum, your reads would still be bad. Those are the rules of logic, sir.

I sense that this is a "caught for the wrong reasons" temper tantrum from Toasty.

I need to check the vote count before voting.

[Amrun]

He's not anywhere close to a lynch. Like L-6 or 7 right now.

Excellent. Thank you.

Unvote; Vote: ToastyToast

[Amrun]

Vi, Do you think DK is scum?

Also, why purposefully fake a post restriction? I always thought it was fake but that didn't bother me too much. I stilk want to know, though.

[Amrun]

Vi has shot up in my townranks lately, and I think an inhim wagon would be a good alternative to toasty.

Toasty: Even though your only valid defense is "wah, I tried!" Imho and that is just a huge pille of AtE, I find myself being inexplicably swayed by it.

I really need to re-read this game, but I just found out I have no internet (yaaay not).

Vi, I meant to ask you before how you determined experience level for you vibot assessment.


Iec: It is a basic fact that I have drawn less supicion as scum than I have as town and that I have been more succesful as scum. Jack once described my town playstyle as "skipping in a field of mafiascum scumtells" or something. Of course, I play more as town than as scum and the pressure is higher as scum, so it's natural I have more "off" games as town. I was not trying to coment on this, really, but te statement was meant to support a question which was intended to help determine redc's motivation. I wanted to know why me being "off" is a scumtell.

Which I should note his "answer" was more of a dodge than an answer.

[Amrun]

Iec: Well, I was much less experienced then. I like to think I am improving. Follow the Cop was a good town game for me. My reads were pretty right on the money. I am still experimenting with playstyle. (Incidentally, ReaperCharlie was obvtown that game and noted lack of any remotely similar play has been noted.)

I have been lynched several times as town and none as scum, but, I've played a lot more games as town, too.

[Amrun]

This game got very interesting all of a sudden. What do cut through and pierce do?

[Amrun]

I figured that one a long time ago, kiddo.

[Amrun]

Wheeee, Vi gets townpoints forever. DeityKabuto gets scumpoints for her awkward attack-but-not-really of Red awhile back. Juls gets a little scumpoints but not enough to drop her. Probably others get town/scumpoints, too, but that will have to wait for a re-read.

[Amrun]

Wait... "Not truly an enemy."

Does that mean not scum / third party?

If so, retract previous post entirely.

P-edit: Ninjaed by gamma

[Amrun]

She needs to explai her power and more importantly why she sed it.

[Amrun]

Juls: Your latest post, where you went out of the way to show that 39 posts more as scum but then said it isn't a scumtell. Scumpoints don't exist for this because RC wasn't scum. T.y mistake.)

Toast: so much for your supposed careful reading, huh? Vi killed RedCoyote. Deity immediately after "pierced" you.

[Amrun]

Ebwop:

*RC, not 39 (RedCoyote)

*(My, not T.y

[Amrun]

Katsuki, what makes you think rc was scum?

P-edit: I know. Anyway, ithat whole post is invalid since RC is likely 3rd party.

[Amrun]

Did you read? The write up says 39 wasn't town but suggests he wasn't scum, either.d

[Amrun]

I don't know the flavor.

Mod suggests heavily that RC was third party. Until we get another flip like it, I'll be trusting the mod over your assertion on the flavor.

[Amrun]

Vote: gamma

Katsuki, how many times must it be explained that THE MOD SAID: "[RedCoyote] wasn't one of us [town] but didn't seem to be an enemy either."

Do you believe that scum are not town's enemies?

[Amrun]

Katsuki, my rudimentary knowledge of the flavor suggested RC scum, hence why my first post was all "whee scumflip" but then I read the write up and noticed the line where the mod basically outright stated RC was third party in my next post. Why are. You ignoring this line?

Vi, What do you mean I am trying to discredit the flip. That is not even possible, but if it were, stating that I think RC was third party rather than scum due to the write up would hardly qualify.

Either way, it was a good kill.

[Amrun]

Vi: That was an oversight. You still get townpoints, but nobody gets scumpoints from the flip until another flip of its kind appears.

Also I prefer an inhim vs. Juls duel, but inhim vs. Mykonian would be okay too. Several other comptomises available.

DK vs. Juls or myko would also be good, pending DK's explanation of "pierce."

[Amrun]

Are you kidding? Tell us what the hell that pierce stuff was about.

[Amrun]

What kindof "slip" have I supposedly made, RC, that no one ever mentioned it at all until now?

[Amrun]

Vi: I am not sure how my joke could in any way be construed as a slip. Definition of slip: accidentally revealing more knowledge than a townie should have. Joke entirely unrelated tto level of knowledge, therefore not a slip. It WAS a bad joke.

[Amrun]

Amrun: Vi meant that deity was going to say something similar to you. That it was a joke.

I don't think that's what she was saying. We weren't talking about DK.

[Amrun]

Why did you think it was a good idea to kill toasty at that time.

[Amrun]

Why did you think it was a good idea to kill toasty at that time.

Quite a few people found him scummy, so I was just seeing if he would flip.

He was goig to die anyway. What did YOU think of toasty?

[Amrun]

AGM, what is your opinion on red's flip?

[Amrun]

Deity: Sorry about the gender thing. Sasuke avatars and all. >.>

I am somewhat impressed by your wall, as it leaps and bounds ahead of anything else ever seen from you. More in-depth looks could be had, but I feel a lot better about you now.

One thing: CSL is one half of the ReaperCharlie/CSL hydra Drunken Unicorn Master, which is not in your list but should be.

[Amrun]

Holy shit. Deity's town.

Like seriously. Wow. :goodposting: Mind = blown etc Actually reading it rather than skimming at some point,; but for now he's a town read.

Agree with this statement, even if I disagree with the things said about me. (Eg. He says I have knowledge of DW, even though in the referenced post I clearly say I have little.)

And yet you scream at people about how your knowledge of it means more than what the mod says. Just sayin'.


I still want myko/inhim duel.

[Amrun]

Katsuki: I don't doubt your knowledge. I'm just saying mod > knowledge. Mods aren't infallible and they can also deliberately make choices that would trip up flavorlovers.

[Amrun]

Katsuki: I don't doubt your knowledge. I'm just saying mod > knowledge. Mods aren't infallible and they can also deliberately make choices that would trip up flavorlovers.

Spyspy is infallible.

This has nothing to do with the game anyhow. My problem with you was how you kept trying to push the RC=3P schtick, even though it's now been proven wrong via AGM.

Lu Bu for SK.

Proven how?

[Amrun]

Definitely rushing. Meant to pedit but forgot.

Pedit: why a townread on inhim, Maxous?

[Amrun]

Katsuki: I don't doubt your knowledge. I'm just saying mod > knowledge. Mods aren't infallible and they can also deliberately make choices that would trip up flavorlovers.

Spyspy is infallible.

This has nothing to do with the game anyhow. My problem with you was how you kept trying to push the RC=3P schtick, even though it's now been proven wrong via AGM.

Lu Bu for SK.

Proven how?

I hate arguing with a sack of potatoes.

Let me know when you're ready to use a brain.

That's rude and uncalled for.

I want to know how AGM's ability says that RC is scum as opposed to third party. It doesn't say either way, as far as I can tell.

[Amrun]

So you want inhim to win this duel?

[Amrun]

I usually sign up for Themes I know, but in this case, I jus wanted to play the duel mechanic.

I intended to research, but my computer usually doesn't stay on for more than 5 minutes now (just shuts off, isn't that great) and researching on my phone is a pain so I just don't.

Explain to me what you think that write up quote meant, then, as I've asked you before.

[Amrun]

Explain to me what you think that write up quote meant, then, as I've asked you before.

Completely irrelevant. (for someone too lazy to look things up).

You're disregarding the mod because of lolflavor, when there are perfectly plausible flavor explanations, as explained by Iecrint and Maxous. That's what I was looking for from you, why your flavor justification is so strong in your mind, but you're being excessively obtuse for no discernible reason.

I'm not being lazy, though it doesn't matter. My phone is a pos that freezes all the time and takes forever to do things and my comp is practically non-existent, plus I am busy, so the majority of my phone time goes to actually playing mafia. Gameplay shouldn't be dependent on flavor knowledge because not everyone wants to fight with technology for 3+ hours when they don't even know what they're looking for.

Thank you, Maxous and Iecrint.

[Amrun]

I have decided to accept Iecrint's flavor explanation reconciling the mod's statement and RC being scum.

I wasn't the only one to be confused by this, for the record.

[Amrun]

I completely forgot about instantaneous nights, wow.

[Amrun]

Bluhhh.
Protective shot kinda makes sense but I'm having a really hard time getting past the told you were roleblocked thing.

If anyone else wants to step in with opinions here I'd appreciate it.

That basically is my opinoin.

It does mean we definitely have another intervening role (if ek is town) b/c there was only one kill.

[Amrun]

I am pretty sure 4 players are dead.

Have you read closely enough to have reads, T-Bone?

[Amrun]

T-Bone, if you have suspicions from before you replaced in, share them. Now.

And then read. And then share again.

[Amrun]

I think I'll be voting elvis to win.

Definitely will not at any point vote DK to win.

[Amrun]

VOTE: Elvis-knits to win

Lol

[Amrun]

What do we think of a Maxous TBone duel?

[Amrun]

What do we think of a Maxous TBone duel?

For Max to win or double-death?

For Maxous to win.

I'm not really proposing it, just legitimately asking. I can't make up my mind and want to hear from others.

I had him as a town read, but him demanding to duel over gamma makes me uncomfortable.

But if he is town, he probably has a good D ability.

[Amrun]

We could just have him duel second. It's not an either/or situation.

I meant as a second duel anyway.

[Amrun]

VOTE: T-Bone

Elvis, targets claim now.

[Amrun]

Because I forgot he was an RB.

He should also claim.

I don't see what he has to gain by not claiming.

[Amrun]

VOTE: Iec

Not sure if this is the right move, but it's the best bet I guess.

Targets, elvis?

[Amrun]

Oops, nvm. Sorry elvis.

[Amrun]

TBone to win wtf?

[Amrun]

Vi: Yes, I do. I'm less sure of it, but I do still have a marginal townread on Ludi. As in, I wouldn't let him win any duels, but I'm not actively seeking someone to duel him.

[Amrun]

Oh, joy.

No claim.

No waiting for a defense.

I really wish I had TEH BEST PR EVERZ just to sock it to you.

I don't, but I'm not scum.

[Amrun]

SCUM

T-Bone
Katsuki
C-Worl
DUM
Vi
Magister Ludi
RayFrost
Iecerint
Mykonian
Maxous
Elvis_Knits
Gamma

TOWN

[Amrun]

Katsuki, RedCoyote was pro-town third party. SUCK IT.

[Amrun]

....No, Red was town. A miller that, due to me not forseeing him NOT claiming that, ended up being a true death miller.

The three factions that did not have the town win condition were Lu Bu, you, and the scum.

Well, yeah. I just phrased it that way because Katsuki was being a jerk about it in thread. It was pretty clear from the write up that RedCoyote was NOT SCUM in some sort of fashion. Didn't realize it was a miller until post-game.

It was a neat set-up, SpyreX. Thanks for letting me play even though my survivor experimentation did not go as well as I'd hoped.

[Amrun]

That Lu Bu role reveal will go down in infamy.

[Amrun]

No one considers dead people's reads anymore.

[Amrun]

Vi's intentions were good, but she should have waited for claims and/or reactions. I think the threat of vigging could have been telling.

But she put in a lot of effort and that shouldn't be discredited.

[Amrun]

Coding counts.

[Amrun]

I was not scum.

I was acting somewhat scummy, trying to avoid the nk, so the shot is understandable.

[Amrun]

That baffled me.

T Bone claimed scum in his opening post.

[Amrun]

You are the only one in this game who didn't even know how to read their own role pm, DK.