Newbie 1109: Paradise City (Game Over)

[Otolia]

/confirm

[Otolia]

Tsk Tsk, the mod didn't even say we could start.

VOTE: rockynpoika

A lot is on my mind, unfortunately nothing that concerns this game.

[Otolia]

The thing currently on my mind is where the obligatory lengthy IC post went.

There is no such thing as an obligatory IC post. Every IC is free to choose his ICness path.

[Otolia]

There is two different ways to start a mafia games with people who don't know : Random Voting Stage (RVS) and Random Questioning Stage (RQS) The first objective of D1 is to get the discussion going, voting people build antagonizing situation forcing people to make up their mind, whereas questioning is more about getting basic information.

Concerning the cop, yes they can give us their investigation results tomorrow but I wouldn't count on that if I were you. Cop in Newbie games are somewhat irrelevant. Don't forget also that you can PM the moderator if you have questions related to your role.

[Otolia]

I voted Otolia for his serious looking mafiaso penguin avi.

It's not a penguin. It's Tux. You lowly corporate fool.

[Otolia]

Can you please reserve colors for special occasions.

[Otolia]

1) Are you excited to be here?
2) What's your opinion of policy lynches?
3) Is there any future V/La you're anticipating during this game?
4) What's your favorite direction on a compass?

1. I'd rather be excited by a naked girl
2. Lynch all lurkers
3. Maybe in June. I'm not sure yet.
4.

[Otolia]

@Otolia I agree with most of that, and thanks for the heads up on the V/LA, my question is - how far are you willing to go with "Lynch all lurkers" ?

The "lynch all lurkers" policy is an extreme one, and must be used with caution. I don't consider active lurking as falling under that law because you can accuse someone of being active enough and not being helpful at the same time. If you can't spot it as a townie then the fault is on you and no one else. But the major problem is when you are questioning someone who is disappearing and comes back to say " Sorry, I am been busy, tomorrow I shall post" but never post any content. You could say it's also 'active lurking' but for me it falls under something else called disrespect. I guess I should adapt my policy to "lynch all flaker" but flaker are those who end up being replace ...

I hope not to have to apply this rule here but it's quite common in newbie games.

[Otolia]

So it's an extreme cautious "Lynch all lurkers" policy that doesn't include active lurking but includes disrespect and it should be called "Lynch all flakers" but they're usually replaced.

So let me rephrase my question. Someone lurks today - we lynch them, and they turn up town. Someone lurks tomorrow - do we lynch them to, if so, and they turn up town, then do we lynch another lurker the next day if there is one?

It's not an extremely cautious one, but it should be used wisely, with caution.

I don't see why you are trying to build up a perfect scenario where everyone lurks. If that kind of situation ever happens, then the town will lose with or without my "lynch all lurker" policy. The town is as strong as its weakest member (said once a wise man) a lurker is a broken piece of the town.

Also don't go fishing for tells like this, it's quite pathetic.

[Otolia]

That said a lot without really answering my question, Otolia.

That's pathetic. I answered your question. If it's not the answer you were looking for, then deal with it but don't insinuate things just for fun. In D1 if you can't back your thoughts up, keep it for you.

[Otolia]

You are really looking for the mice in a giant crop field ... You asked me "how far I was willing to go to apply that policy ?" Sure I didn't say precisely how far because I don't know how far I would be willing to go. It's like asking a 100m sprinter how many steps he will make in his next run. He can't answer because even there is much more to a 100m run than just putting a foot in front of the other. I told you more about my own policy. It was the point of the initial question. And yes I did say a lot but how is that scummy ?

Now you start to use strong words like 'unbelievably' and 'wishy-washy' ... I don't know what I can do for you. Being so narrow-minded in D1 is beyond my own understanding. I don't think you are scum, you have just questionable methods to scumhunt

[Otolia]

Sorry for being inactive. I'll try to do better. I'm just not very entertained by this stage of the game, where so far most of the discussion has been about the wording of something.

I believe that Otolia needs to calm down a bit on the harsh words though. I believe Bulvious has a few legit points, and contrary to Green, my gut instinct says he's a Townie. Of course this may change over the course of the day.
Also suspicious about Illmatic who has yet to contribute with something decently.

Folks, put pressure on me.

1. That's not an excuse. People not participating in D1 are more likely to be scums because they don't want to be dragged into pointless conversations.
2. I am calm. I said I believe that Bulvious was town and Green didn't say anything about alignment. Can you please read the thread before posting ?
3. Don't taunt people, that's just dumb. I am willing to let go off that one but don't do it again.

@Otolia Is my use of wishy-washy incorrect? It seems to me like you would say something and then back-peddle in the same sentence. Primary example being using the words "Extreme" and "Cautiously" to describe the same thing and not in it being "extremely cautious". The first sentence of your description is a contradiction. You make an exception to your 'extreme' policy in your next sentence. In the third, you state something that seems almost wholey irrelevant to my question. Then you make an exception in your fourth sentence to your second sentence, and in your fifth sentence you say something else pretty irrelevant. And then of course you say you hope that you don't need to apply that here.

Can't you just drop it ? What are you gonna do next ? Analyze my words in itself and claim it's contradictory ? (All these questions were just rhetorical ones)

Just think about it for 1 minute. What could be scummy in what I did ? What could have been my motivation to lie (assuming I lied and I am Mafia) ?

"Wishy-Washy" positions is not a scumtell, especially when it's about a policy.

[Otolia]

Sad Examples:
1) One stupid townie had created the thread in Mafia Discussion with some kind of question like this: "how do mafias speak in their quicktopic". Which resulted in a modkill. Town lost that game.
2) One stupid mafia had placed in his wiki-scummer-page something like this: "how dare *player name* hammered me", as a result townies used it for confirming innocence of *player name* and that game was broken.

ROFL

[Otolia]

WHAT THE ****ING HELL DO YOU WANT TO KNOW, BULVIOUS ? I ALREADY ANSWERED YOUR BLOODY QUESTIONS ! AND I CAN SAY IT'S HURTING MY BRAIN !

[Otolia]

After that, you can realize that you told me to 'deal with' you giving an answer I didn't want.

And when I say that, I mean I deal with it by pursuing it until you stop being stubborn and wasting more of your own time than you would prefer, and answer.

I have done more than I should have to answer you. Yes it's preventing me to scumhunting because each time I see this thread, I want to smash my head at the walls of my room and cry for my mom in my bed.

I am willing to lynch every player who is absent for a long period, promise to deliver a long-catch up post but fail to do so and block the wagon because nobody wants to hammer someone in a position like this. I am willing to lynch active lurkers who suddenly disappear. I am willing to lynch every lurker who is slowing/hurting the flow of the game. But it doesn't mean, I will apply my policy every time. Mafia is a complex game, saying that you will do something for sure because there is so much unforeseen consequences. And hell with you, if what I said sounds wishy-washy to you. I won't lynch a player if I think it will cost me the game because that's the bottom line of Mafia. And it's an extreme policy because for some conservative people (like you probably) lynching townies is bad. Whereas I think that lynching townies who are hurting the game by lurking is better than lynching a maybe-scum who can still make a town post. Aside from that, I am more than likely to give the priority to people who are participating in the game than others because lurkers remove the fun from the game.

Whether I like it or not, we are not quite out of the RVS/RQS. And I'd rather not attack newbies this early. So far the only person who is lurking is illmaster but I don't see how it's hurting the town. Nevertheless he is the biggest wagon and Bulvious had a point, I have not been scumhunting.

VOTE: Illmatic

[Otolia]

Nobody is talking about hammering now Hopa ... Anyhow, lynching without warning is quite bad education even if you hammer a scum.

[Otolia]

Great. Now Bulvious will come on my back ... If illmatic doesn't post after being prodded, I will be asking for an hammer. I'd rather state that now.

@Mod

: Can you prod illmatic please ?

[Otolia]

If illmatic doesn't post after being prodded, I will be asking for an hammer. I'd rather state that now.

If he pick up the prod, but keep flaking, that would be another situation.

That's what I meant.

[Otolia]

UNVOTE: illmatic

He posted something and to be honest, I don't see the fear of the lynch that characterize newbie mafia players. Thus the risk of a quick failhammer outweigh the likelihood of him being scum. There is no point in taking so much risk this early in the day.

@Bulvious

: Case closed ?

[Otolia]

Dark_Creed

: Who are you ?

[Otolia]

I closed the tab with my own wall.

I. HATE. YOU. ALL.

[Otolia]

@Verydark Because you can't end the day early by accident if someone's at L-2, you can at L-1, and in a Newbie game there's a risk that a hammer will come in those L-1 situations. It was a very unneeded risk, and if you don't see the difference between a L-3 vote and a L-1 vote, then I don't know what to say.

And then you come on my back asking why I unvoted ? Come on Isa ...

I'll post more content this afternoon.

[Otolia]

I'm also declaring LA until early monday. If you have questions, please make sure I can clearly see them.

[Otolia]

@Hopa

: I can't remember exactly what I wanted to say but it seems that I was answering to Maziek and Isa about why I unvoted and why I am firm on my policy lynch. I am not ashamed to say that I have no problem in lynching townies if that will win us the game. Sure lynching scum is the endgoal but thinking you will achieve a perfect win is unrealistic. So I accept town casualties as a way to corner the scum. That's mostly what I meant to say, I believe you could find similar policies in my previous games.

So far, I am having good townreads on Bulvious and Isa. The first one for not letting small things go (like my own policy) and the latter for always questioning motives and votes.

Now I'd like to see how Maziek answer under pressure. His low number of post combined with his comments posts just aren't enough for me to get a good reads. His attacks on me were weak.

VOTE: Mariek

[Otolia]

Otolia, what you just said is a way better statement than that whole garbage paragraph you posted. Seems like you have an ego though. This will be fun...
I can actually agree with some of the points in your little @Hopa, but your huge paragraph before still looks really bad.
If you call one vote pressure, then that is fine by me.

Are you the spiritual son of Bulvious ?
I hope more people will see the reasoning behind the wagon as we kinda let the illmatic wagon slow down.

[Otolia]

I'm also declaring LA until early monday. If you have questions, please make sure I can clearly see them.

I don't read the thread carefully right now. I am merely answering immediate questions and issuing comments when I'm home.

Now if you want my vote to start a wagon on Dark, tell me and I'll change my vote at the condition that the next target for wagonning will be Maziek.

[Otolia]

Otolia, I'm not a popular player here or anything, so I won't assume that you can't start a wagon on me, but with your ****ty reasons (not posting enough and a weak attack on you), unless the players here are desperate for a lynch, then that won't be enough material to start a wagon on anyone. Care to explain why you think this wagon can pick up?

Wagon =/= Lynch. You may be wagonned and not end up lynched (like Illmatic). So I can start a wagon on you and see what happen. If people are not looking for reads and tells then they are not doing their job and I assume there are at least (for now) 2 more townies willing to scumhunt and that's all you need start a wagon.

[Otolia]

As you wish Bulvious : VOTE: Drak_Creed

[Otolia]

@Maziek : I did say I will vote for you after the Dark_Creed (now Yonzi) case is settled. Don't be so rash.

[Otolia]

What case do you have on the new replacement, Otolia? That he's inactive? That's not a case. Voting him while he's catching up is pointless, considering that him catching up won't be effected by the votes on him. Why are you still voting him?

Your capacity to produce logical fallacies is truly amazing, Maziek. Can't you wait until I come to you ? Anyway, I voted him because Bulvious felt it was necessary, I would have unvote him if Hopa didn't do it before me. But since you can't erase scumminess through replacement, I don't see why I should unvote now. If I have a good feeling after his first post we shall see what I'll do. Until then you can rest in peace.

[Otolia]

"because Bulvious felt it was necessary"? Really? That's why you're voting him, and then you refuse to unvote? You voting him because SOMEONE ELSE thought it was necessary is very suspicious. Is this the only reason you're voting him besides inactivity.

Are you saying that Yonzy is scummy because the two previous players were inactive (which led to Yonzy being in the game in the first place)? What have the two previous slots done except be inactive? With their 2-3 total posts, I doubt you can find them scummy.

-sigh- You're voting Yonzy for:
~The two previous slots being inactive
~Someone else feeling that you needed to

and then you wait to unvote. This just looks really scummy.

/facepalm. You are being laughable.

Being inactive is scummy. I think I stated that somewhere in this game. As I said, I don't find him scummy but Bulvious did. Considering Bulvious is my most trusted town read right now, I am willing to trust him when he said that Dark_Creed's wagon needs more people. You are trying so hard to find a loophole and this is mildly amusing. Right now, I have no reasons to unvote. Acting as a part of a group is playing on the main force of the town : his ratio vs mafia.

However I shall bring to the attention of the town that Maziek has become more aggressive towards me since I stated I would wagon him. For me, it's something that deserve a wagon and more pressure, so after Yonzi's case is closed, I suggest him as the next wagon.

[Otolia]

Argh, I hate when I am slacking off and it backfires so badly in my face. ><

Alright since I am unmasked for being so lazy, I have to show my wall abilities off. I'll grab something to eat and maybe post in another thread beforehand but you can expect a post of mine in the next 3 hours.

[Otolia]

First of all, I'd like to remind you all that I was on LA the last few days. I took on myself to keep posting because in this newbie games, it's so easy to lose momentum. Sure it's not an excuse for putting anyone at L-1 but when Bulvious said the wagon needed more people, I thought it was L-2. I didn't look it up and I apologize but now that I switched my vote, I have no reasons to unvote until Yonzi can provide something valuable to the town. And no I won't back down just because a little someone is making a fuss about it.

I'm also declaring LA until early monday. If you have questions, please make sure I can clearly see them.

---

I'll cover now the last few posts :

Spoiler: Hopa's post

I don't read the thread carefully right now. I am merely answering immediate questions and issuing comments when I'm home.
Now if you want my vote to start a wagon on Dark, tell me and I'll change my vote at the condition that the next target for wagonning will be Maziek.

I.e. answer questions:
1) next target for wagonning = next day, after Dark_Creed's/replacement's lynch or today?
2) If you do not read carefully and playing "follow the main town read" (as I see this) why do you so inclined towards voting Maziek?

1) Next target for wagonning either in D2 if Yonzi is lynched or in d1 if the wagon is disbanded.
2) Abrasive people annoys me, plus I can't get a good feeling on him. I am not saying I want him lynched just I want people to look at his ISO and start thinking upon what he does.

Now I'd like to see how Maziek answer under pressure. His low number of post combined with his comments posts just aren't enough for me to get a good reads. His attacks on me were weak.

May I ask what are you expecting from Maziek?
He was under pressure once and provided some posts already.

I don't know what to expect. But a better read on him would be a good start. And I checked the votecounts again, Maziek wasn't wagonned at all since the beginning of the game

However I shall bring to the attention of the town that Maziek has become more aggressive towards me since I stated I would wagon him. For me, it's something that deserve a wagon and more pressure, so after Yonzi's case is closed, I suggest him as the next wagon.

Do you expect him not to suspect you for your statement?
Did you seen someone who did such kind of planned wagoning in other games?
Or do you invent it by yourself?

* Whether or not he wants to suspect him is up to him. Shall I grant him town points for that ? I'm not sure but I guess you could.
* I don't remember seeing such thing but it doesn't mean nobody does it nor that it's bad. (I am really annoyed about how people are getting so worked up for things that are mostly relevant to my playstyle)
* I am not as cocky as to pretend I am reinventing Mafia, but I am doing it in other games as well. It's up to you to check up.

Spoiler: Maziek's 1st post

That's what I'm saying. You don't think he's scummy. You're voting him because of someone elses read. That is scummy. A vote is supposed to be used to pressure someone or to lynch someone that you think is scummy. You're doing the opposite of that and you're using your vote based on what someone else thinks. I don't need to find a "loophole" to call what you're doing scummy. "no reasons to unvote" someone that you don't think is scummy. Not using your vote for your own thoughts is very anti-town and its what loses town multiple games to scum factions.

You are consistently confusing what is not pro-town with what is scummy. And if you were reading as carefully as you think I should, you would have noticed that Hopa said I had no reasons to unvote. So don't get on your high horse.

If you want to play that card, town, notice that he said he would start a wagon on me only after I stated that what he was doing was scummy(One of the reasons being that my attacks on him were "weak"). Before that, he didn't have a care in the world about voting me in any way, shape, or form. He's using it as a form of OMGUS (oh my gosh you suck). http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?tit ... d_You_Suck is a link to what it means if anyone is curious.

How long have you played mafia ? If you come to my attention by attacking me, then why shouldn't I do the same ? Oh that's right because you are SO smart and I am obviously wrong. You may want to know that wagonning is a pro-town attitude. However I concede that I was careless when I voted Dark_Creed, but that was not intentional. However you are the one who started making a fuss about this shit whereas I just wanted to see how you would have react if people wagonned you. So who is doing OMGUS now ? And please note that you look like a tryhard when you quote the wiki, as if it wasn't common knowledge.

OMGUS actually describes what Verydark is doing as well. He has yet to state any reasons as to why I'm scum, but still wants me lynched. He's also ignoring me, which shows that he doesn't care what I have to say for my slot. Another anti-town move right there.

You are so full of yourself . Though you are right on this one, but ONLY after he voted for you.

Looking at it now, you could probably get a wagon on me. You, Verydark, Isa(if he still thinks I'm suspicious), Bulvious, and for the hammer probably Yonzy. Possibly Illmatic but I doubt it. If that's the case, I could care less about a wagon on me. Can't wait for you to get it started.

Otolia, give us your thoughts on Verydark. Verydark, do the same for Otolia. Refusal to do so may result in consequences later in the game!

Your pretentious attitude is really really annoying me, who do you think you are to threaten people like this ? Can't you just ask nicely to give reads on one another. Reading your ISO makes me wanna smash your head with a bat. You are one of these people who thinks everyone owe them and they should bask in their presence. I, however, am the type of guy who overreacts to this kind of thing and seeing how bad it ended for me the last time I got into a argument with someone like you, I will ask for a replacement if you keep heading in that direction.

So either you ask nicely or you won't have these reads on verydark, I am not your dog and seeing how you behave I won't be your friend either.

Spoiler: verydark's post

UNVOTE: Bulvious
VOTE: Maziek

As for Otolia, I think he gets really worked up and defensive, which could be considered scummy, but gauging by how everyone is nitpicking over the most (in my opinion) absurd "scum tells", I can understand his frustration.

As much as I hate to see this, but you are getting more worked up than me. Don't give him a stick to beat you with, because if he is scum, he won't hesitate too long.

Spoiler: Maziek's 2nd post

1: Looking back through Otolia's posts, he simply doesn't talk about Verydark at all. I looked through all of his posts, and he doesn't even mention the player past RVS stage (before the Illmatic votes started piling on). It left me a bad feeling. I didn't look at the opposite point of view yet, but I DO know that I have yet to see a legit read from Verydark on Otolia until I was asked for it.

2: Verydark pushing the blame for the L-1 vote onto Bulvious instead of Otolia where it belonged right off the bat. Verydark was looked at badly for putting Illmatic at L-1, but when Otolia put Dark at L-1, instead of looking at Otolia straight away like he should have based on how he was defending his L-1 vote and how it was just pressure, he turns to Bulvious, the L-3 vote, instead. Note that this can not be a noobie mistake. The noobie move would have been to look at Otolia without looking at the details, since if that was the case, then Verdark would have been looking at the person that did the exact same thing he did (put the person at L-1). However, he didn't do this. Because of that, I feel that information as to where he should be voting and stuff is being spoon-fed to him.

3: His stance on Otolia. It looked like he didn't want to give a legit read on him, and was defending him already through a simple stance. He never stated if he thought Otolia was town or scum.

So I am scum alone or I am scum because of verydark ? Two of these things are related to verydark and not to me. You are building castles on the assumption that he is scum and without hearing my and his versions. You are doing all the side of the tribunal and I don't like it. Right now you are getting on a spree and you could well be trying to deflect the attention from Yonzi who has just getting replaced.

1. I didn't talk much about Hopa, not much about Green and only a few about Isa. So what ? It's still early in the game and I am not the kind of guy that thinks he is THE ONE, I take infos as they come and try to work with them but I don't make assumptions and shotgun in the assembly like you like to do.

Spoiler: Bulvious' post

Oto - You're talking a lot lot lot about wagoning but not so much about a case. I get that Maziek might rub you the wrong way but does that make him scum? Also, while I appreciate your vote of confidence that I'm town - that isn't an excuse. When you vote, it's for reasons you need to be held to. Anyway, what I want most from you is to see a real case against Maziek other than that he's gunning for you and Verydark.

For starter I say I dislike the fact that he hasn't vote EVEN ONCE since the RVS. So is vote is still on verydark. Now he comes to me saying that I should unvote and stuff but he hasn't take time to unvote himself ? Hypocrisy is the word I think ? Other than that, I don't like the fact that he is breaking the focus of the town. Though verydark is a

very

tempting focus right now. >> Yonzi was the target and hoping too easily unto verydark might be just what we need to forget that we were close to a lynch.

PS : If you keep asking yourself why I am ignoring verydark here, it's because if I was to explain his ISO (I did), I would have to give my reads on him.

[Otolia]

Okay, we'll assume I totally DID mean to put Dark at L-1. The fact that I STILL thought he wouldn't be lynched applies.
IN FACT, Oto KNOWS it's proper to call L-1, and he didn't. That's a HUGE indicator he had SOME scum motivation for approval seeking. He has 462 total posts on this forum, he knows good and well what's proper to do as town.

The fact that I didn't called the L-1 should speak in my favor if we follow your reasoning. If I were looking for town approval, calling L-1 would have been the best way to do it. But I didn't, it was my mistake and I apologize for it. Now Yonzi wasn't quicklynch so it didn't hurt the town and that's a relief.

I guess if you're his partner that would be a horrifyingly bad decision, wouldn't it? (Well aware this is being obtuse)
Additionally, in regards to Maziek not moving his vote - could it be that he likes where it's placed? I don't see how it's hypocritical when he thinks (and at this point,I do too) he has a good reason for it being there. His is because he thinks Very is scum. Yours is because you were too indecisive (or too afraid?, maybe even lazy), or I guess your excuse is that you hate lurkers, hence why you wanted Dark, and now Yonzy. But really? You've stated you dislike Maziek and you think he's scum, why not go with scum over a lurker?
To me, it just seems like a lot of the things you do have an awful lot of scum motivation.

Of course now Maziek's vote looks good because verydark has happened to be ultranewbie. However what happened during the time when nobody really noticed verydark (including me) ? Well nothing and that's the problem. But I do agree that verydark actions are suspicious. Considering it's a newbie game he is either newbscum or newbtown.

I dislike Maziek but I didn't say I thought he was scum - I did say however that I'd like to see him wagonned and under more pressure. You are over-interpretating things that didn't happen. I already vote him once (before jumping on Dark_Creed) and I probably vote him again. Why not going for possible scums over lurkers ? Because maybe-scums are at least participating in the game. I play to have fun and to win but that's only the second condition, so yeah I favor people who are playing. Plus Yonzi hasn't prove himself yet so one target at a time is a good way not to lose focus and keeps track on what you want to achieve.

@Yonzi

: Can you give your reads on Maziek and verydark please ?

[Otolia]

Haven't posted in a while, sorry about that. I am reading and working on a post that I'll post before the end of today
For now,

Unvote

COME ON !

[Otolia]

derpderp I'm gonna start a wagon on someone that I don't think is scum derpderp. Do you all wagon just for the hell of it here? Whats the purpose of starting a wagon on someone if you're not going to lynch them or force information out of them (usually an inactive)? Going after your scum read over an inactive shows that you're willing to scum hunt over wanting to get rid of the bad townies. I could understand it if you were like.. putting pressure on him or something, but dear god, the guy hasn't even read the thread yet and your vote is still on him. If this wasn't a newbie game, then I know that as soon as he made a catchup post, that you would drop your vote on him just like that. However, it's not, so his catchup post may be very VERY bad. Key words are may and be. What do you gain from keeping your vote on a person that has replaced out twice and on a person that looked at the thread for the first time just a while ago, probably not even caring about the votes on him considering that they're probably there due to their previous slots inactivity?

I don't need my vote on you for pressuring you it seems. You already started spouting a non-sensical post where you affirm you know what I would do in every situation.

If you think someone doesn't care about the votes, you are wrong. I gain nothing except

reads

from keeping my vote on Yonzi. But again reads are not valuable to you since you KNOW the setup right ?

[Otolia]

@ Maziek

: Be patient, your turn will come. In the mean time, if you could give your reads on Hopa, Greenalogist and Bulvious, I would truly be thankful. Furthermore, if you were more experienced you would understand how difficult it is to explain your reads as scum thus I am waiting for more input from Yonzi before clearing him. Hence I am keeping my vote on him. Also note that even if Hopa unvoted, she still wants to lynch him. In the end, I am trying to get the best out of a mistake.

And by the way, you are wrong. When I posted what you answered to, Yonzi already posted something, and I asked him to give more reads here. I wonder if you are too absorb by your attack or you are to scum to worry about replacing players who might be scum.

On the notion of newbscum or newbtown.

I know for sure that it is quite difficult to differentiate a newbscum from a newbtown D1. Being so confident about your reads is somewhat scummy because townies are more inclined to doubt because they don't have the valuable information about alignment.

[Otolia]

Yonzi only voted for Green in what seems to be a RVS vote, I am waiting more of someone who is replacing in, thus I asked him to give his reads on Maziek and verydark. It's quite normal that if Yonzi provides sufficient town-oriented content, I'll switch my vote to Maziek acknowledging that he is not a top lynch, hence "clearing" him. And I haven't unvote Yonzi nor do I think that Dark_Creed was extremely scummy, however some people did and I won't let down a wagon before getting something valuable, especially after fumbling like that >< ->

makes the best out of what you have.

Is that clearer to you, Isa ?

[Otolia]

Okayy I pinky promise i'll post tmrw.. 5 am not the best time to make an analysis... veryy sorryy..was just busy today,that's all.
Btw..my vote was not rvs at all:S I voted on green depending on what i read.. I still hold that vote since he hasn't said anything that would actually prove his innocence.

But you have to show more than this. I said it was RVS-like because it wasn't underlined by good arguments. So you are saying

'he is scum'

without any backup. That's not what I expect from a replacement.

[Otolia]

VCA == Vote Count Analysis

[Otolia]

I am wondering why everyone considers the case between Maziek and verydark a case between Maziek+Bulvious vs. me+verydark. So far I know, any of them could be a buddying scum. Spouting nonsense is getting us nowhere, and I want to thank Maziek personally for that.

Aside from that,

FoS : Greenealogist

for is overdefensiveness. He isn't the most targeted in town and he is way too touchy about that topic.

[Otolia]

You used quotes to back up your reads on Green and me. Why not use any for Bulvious and Maziek ?

[Otolia]

You used quotes to back up your reads on Green and me. Why not use any for Bulvious and Maziek ?

I didn't accuse them of anything.

Yes, I know. But you didn't answer my question.

[Otolia]

Why not use any for Bulvious and Maziek ?

I didn't accuse them of anything.

What would I quote?

Ok. Ultimate question : What is for you the main characteristic of a player in the town side of the game ?

Otherwise we can put Green is the same newbie group as verydark

[Otolia]

In this understanding, how do you see verydark and Green reactions after getting accused (Please note that I asked you to cover verydark as weel, which you didn't) ? Could you see them both as newbscum or newbtown ?

It wasn't my last question because you answers are good, but the sole fact that you decided to cover my case is enough for me to give you a town read. UNVOTE: Yonzi

[Otolia]

Oto in post #265 dismisses all of the case Maziek has formed against Verydark, as well as my own. - There's no real defense here for accusations I've made, nor questions, just dismissal. It's nonsense because it's questioning them.

Are you kidding me ? I did cover all you had to say about it in this post under "Maziek's 2nd post" What is nonsensical is to pair me up with verydark, there is a case on verydark, there is a case on me. Maziek is pushing the easy case on verydark into me because of the wierd behavior of the former. How am I responsible for verydark's posts ? You dismiss having any responsibilities in my Dark_Creed's vote, I am also negative about being responsible for verydark. You are trying way too hard to use a convenient situation without thinking much about how the other possibilities.

Post#275 Oto dismisses Verydark as newb, which is fine, except that it had no context, not really. It's as if he's trying to remind us of his newb status so that Verydark is more exempt from scrutiny.

Would you not agree that verydark is newb ? For me overdefensiveness is scummy but getting emotional about the game is more newbie-like than scummy-like, hence I put Green and verydark in the same newbie group.

Additionally, in Oto's #265 post I'd like everyone to note that he FOS'd Green - the second largest votecount in the game. He then backs off of Yonz (with, granted, pretty good reason). Right now he's set up to join the Green wagon without very much extra effort at all. It will look like SUCH a great transition with his voting, too. More opportunism to note, is what I'm saying.

You are a manipulator

. Did I vote ? No. So why are you speculating about something that didn't happen ? Step by step you are planting insidious lies into the town's mind. You know what they say : "The more you tell a lie, the truer it becomes"
I will do what I wanted to do in the first place : vote Maziek. However you asked me to have a good case, so I'm working on it.

[Otolia]

I said before verydark went on his rant that I wanted to wagonned Maziek. Then I made the mistake to switch my vote to Dark_Creed after your post. In the mean time verydark went on a rampage. After that everything I could do was only making the situation looks worse for me.

* If I had unvoted Yonzi without getting something out of it -> scum jumping from wagon to wagon (Maziek already accused me of this)
* If I had switched my votes back to Maziek -> OMGUS vote (most stupid argument of the game) (Maziek already accused me of this)

And I don't freaking hold you accountable for my vote. I take full responsibility, but you know what, I got more out of it than you did. So I guess it makes us even.

Similar actions ? But you are using EVERY arguments from Maziek (which are surprisingly low in number if you take out verydark from the equation), why are you accusing people of something that yourself is doing.

PS : No, I didn't forget to bold my vote on Maziek. I vote properly tomorrow when my case on Maziek is done.

[Otolia]

Plop. Ich werde morgen etwas schreiben.

[Otolia]

>< I was talking to my girlfriend. Sorry about that. Languages are messing up with my mind ...

[Otolia]

Well, I was gonna say outing verydark wasn't necessary but not there is little to discuss now.

VOTE: verydark[/verydark]

PS : Do you know what a JK do Bulvious ?

[Otolia]

Why did you say you were gonna die then ?

BTW, in our argument you impersonated the three monkeys all by yourself so I wonder how I could refute that. And I refuted all arguments from Maziek about me.

[Otolia]

VOTE: verydark

[Otolia]

OK, I picked up my prod. But i can't post anything yet. I am visiting my girlfriend and it's way more important than Mafia. Until Monday (EST) I will be on V/LA.

@Mod : If people ask for replacement in the mean time, just do it, don't bother proddng me again

[Otolia]

Bulvious, you are an ass. I tried to find the time to post something that could make he game better but I didn't succeed. I apologize for that, but this isn't my fault if the town can't man up and lynch me in the first place.

I should have claim scum yesterday to escape the shitstorm you spouted out today. I am really sad the game ended this way.

[Otolia]

Because I feel some players deserve more than the bad ending we displayed, here are my comments on the game.

verydark : Youu tried and that's honorable. I choosed not to bus you because you were the rolespy and a newbie. I hope you learn some valuable knowledge in D1.

Isa, Green, Yonzi : Great play overall, you didn't mess up with the pace of the game and wagonned when necessary. Be sure to understand the risks of sheeping though.

Maziek : Amazing awereness of my links to verdydark. I wasn't scummy alone, and he put an obvscum on me but you did a good scouting job that beforehand.

Bulvious : Good plays though you sheeped Maziek and have difficulties to understand policies ...

Jora : A little bit too passive as an IC, otherwise nothing to note.

don_johnson : you hammered, but I don't really remember anything else ...

I wish I had the time after the end of N1 to provide you with a better defence, but I only see my GF once every 2/3 months so I made a choice. Contrary to Bulvious, I didn' threw the towel D1 nor did I D2 but after a few posts there is nothing more you can say so I was really hoping you would have hammer me sooner not because I gave up but because couldn't ask for a replacement during N1 and that killed the game. And the fact that you would consider me as someone who would flake as scum makes me nauseous.