Square Enix VI (MAFIA WINS)

[popsofctown]

/confirm

[popsofctown]

I'm hoping it's not anything that makes people compromise one wincon for the other.

[popsofctown]

vote panzer

. sincere self-voting is stupid. ironic self-voting is stupid. gambitting self-voting is stupid.

You win when only non-stupid people are alive, or nothing can prevent the same.



Mirite?

[popsofctown]

There's plenty of time for vezok to flip daycop; we could just lynch C-Worl after that happens.

[popsofctown]

I don't like policy lynching people unless they are full out killa 9 unreadable.

[popsofctown]

Two rolefishes in one post. IMPRESSIVE

[popsofctown]

ebwop, #135 reference obviously

[popsofctown]

You're a doctor. Go with that. It's less confirmable.

[popsofctown]

unvote, vote xReckonerx

You're asking me questions we both know the answer to. I'm not going to answer it. You seem obsessed with engaging this town in a conversation about things that don't need to be talked about. Even when reprimanded.

[popsofctown]

softclaimed. Your words.

[popsofctown]

LobsterCatapult would jump off a bridge if all his friends said to. By his logic, we should help an Innocent Child out with his self vote campaign.

[popsofctown]

*her friends.

[popsofctown]

Explaica #177 por favor Rex.

Yo pensa yo ir a ser habla en espanol por el resto del juego.

No, no es una restricción de correos.

Moderator: is speaking in other languages ok?

Most mods forbid it, it's absent from the ruleset on a skim though. It could be he just forgot/didn't think about it.

Clarifying a claim is just as antitown as claiming in the first place. The principle is that scum generally have more influence over the nightgame, and can use nightgame info more powerfully than town.

If that's obvious, I can't explain it any better.

unvote

for supermultivote experimentation.

[popsofctown]

220 is good posting.

vote: Antifinity

My guess right now is that the are multiple third party groups with wincons mutually exclusive to eachother, and then there is town, scum, and SKs, who have traditional win conditions mutually exclusive to eachother. Before I thought people would be wagering chips on which way people were gonna flip. But folks is gettin shot.

[popsofctown]

i beleive kise said that minigames would involve both town and scum and possibly third parties, so i dont know how reliable asking for this information could be, since it could easily be misinformation sent to put us on the wrong track.

Source. Now.

kise wrote this in set up:

Standard town vs. mafia, but with a mini-game between other players as well. The town & mafia's roles do not interfere much with the "mini-gamers" and vice versa, therefore the town and mafia are balanced against each other during any event.


i interpretted this as that it is possible that scum and town and third parties could be involved in a minigame together, or at least events that occur from mini games, unless "other" players mean third party players only, then i misinterpretted this and ignore what i said earlier.

thus, why i am suspect of information coming from the greyice/dramonic deaths.

Other, as an adjective, means you're excluding the aforementioned parties from the group. So if he meant what he said, only third parties have a minigame. He might have meant "among", though, or meant that there are other groups that are defined differently than town vs. mafia (though that also would technically be a grammatical error, because he said other players, not other groups).



I dislike voting mechanics, but am pretty sure good modding practice dictates that votes harm their target, and none of the reverse. Let's not freak out, and just vote people we want to die.

I somewhat like the antifinity case and somewhat like chesskid lynch but really I'm still feeling a tad lost so far.

[popsofctown]

Elsa said she read some of his posts. How is she getting misrepped so many times? I doubt that detail got missed so many times, some or all of the sheep aren't even basing their attack on the original post

[popsofctown]

wait, I reread the post. Did iso mean global iso, or thisgame iso?

Now I can see different interpretations.

[popsofctown]

I didn't vote antifinity. But at least you didn't bold my name.

Antifinity's setup speculation is only slightly scummy, especially after the meta. Reck-is-scum-but-imma-vote-elsewhere is significantly scummy though. People are on the right wagon for the wrong reason. Quite likely some of the wagon is third party minigamers who think his setup speculation is a minigamer-tell.

Antifinity is scummy but not scummy enough that I want to lynch four days into a 3 week deadline.

PB lynch is a nice place to vote though, for general sheeping

unvote, vote Parabollocks

re: DK: DK plays crazily, seems to scumhunt poorly, and trolls instead of posting content sometimes. But he's not unreadable. He puts plenty of play in his posts, they have some length, there's no reason you can't read him, much more easily than the chesskid lynch everyone passed on. You don't policy lynch people who can't help you find scum, you only policy lynch unreadables. So far DK hasn't posted much scummy content, mostly null blundering.
Some people on the DK lynch probably know enough to figure this out for themselves, so I share whoever-it-was's concern about a rush to night 1.

re: Moratorium hates dumbsville: There's several VIs that float around. The modding meta is including vigs more and more just so they suck less. vekoz is unreadable VI, DK is readable VI, Katsuki always seems to be useless but everyone seems to like her anyway.

MPR: Could you put your pictures in spoiler tags? Keep them ontopic thoguh.


and i'm out for now

[popsofctown]

"...but I'll be happy to put up four games of my own and demand you read them to validate my wanting to quicklynch D1..."

No, I didn't just link to them. I explained my MO for you and laid out the brief details of each game quite blatantly for you all. I felt the need to say this because there are some new faces here who aren't familiar with my play/haven't played with me before.

@Kdub: So you're taking two isolated incidents and claiming that meta clears him here? Until he proves that he's doing something valuable, my vote stays. Meta doesn't excuse blatantly poor play and lack of scumhunting.

The difference between myself and Anti is this:

1) I'm using meta to defend myself from an accusation that isn't even scummy in and of itself. Someone wanting to rush things along or speed things up has no valid basis in being "scummy".
2) Anti is ONLY setup speculating and is not doing any scumhunting at all.
3) Rather than just saying "That's my meta, read these games", I provided a clear and concise reasoning for my meta.

Also, Kdub - my biggest problem with Anti is that he's NOT scumhunting, and also that he seemed to have a preternatural understanding of the mini-game before we had seen any flips or had any concrete details. He also seems to be mostly focused ON the minigame and trying to get people to play along with it, asking people to claim, etc. which means he is likely not town. I would put him as more likely third party than more likely scum, but he's a fine lynch either way.

You dug up all the links yourself, or if you have an organized wiki, you at the very least messed with html tags.. all to explain to other players why they shouldn't be allowed to have more time to discern eachother's alignments.

And you won't even begin to look at antifinity's play to discern his alignment.

Are you always this antitown?

[popsofctown]

DK, being in 8 games inevitably causes your play to suffer in some of them. It's more enjoyable for other players if you have about half that many. There's a multitude of ways to entertain yourself on the internet if your mafia games are momentarily moving too slowly to fill all your free time.

Don't claim your PR. Unless you've fakeclaimed as town before, it'll probably kill off your lynch now that you've claimed to have some sort of PR

[popsofctown]

Oh, and FTR, Bunnylover does policy from time to time. She policy vigged in the last SE mafia.

[popsofctown]

You guys are absolute idiots. You lynched a claimed cop. It makes me not want to play. And I usually can tolerate a lot.

[popsofctown]

vote: Hiraki

sheepiest member of that wagon. If there wasnt multiple scum on that stupid wagon, I don't want to win with this town.

[popsofctown]

Votecount:
Antifinity: 11 (xRECKONERx, popsofctown, diddin, JPSalazar, GhostWriter, Katsuki, Quilford, ooba, MehPlusRawr, HellloooNewman, Parabollocks)
vezokpiraka: 7
DeityKabuto: 5 (Moratorium, Panzerjager, vezokpiraka, Antifinity, Lowell)
Elsa von Spielburg: 4 (pappums rat, KDub, LobsterCatapult, bobsnox)
xRECKONERx: 1 (DeityKabuto)
Moratorium: 1 (Midnight's Sorrow)

Not voting: 6 (BunnyLover, Chronopie, C-Worl, DeathNote, Elsa von Spielburg, Hiraki)

With 28 alive, it takes 15 votes to lynch.
Deadline is 2.5 weeks away.

pops' reaction is SO fake.

He was voting for Antifinity at one point.

At the end of the day, he was voting for DeityKabuto, who had softclaimed a town power role.

Act better, scum.

VOTE: popsofctown

Still working on a more lengthy of analysis of day 1.

I raged because you lynched a claimed PR, not the player Antifinity. And I voted Antifinity at L-900, mostly to see how he responded, if i recall well (which I probably don't, since I forgot having done it at all in one of my posts)

I never voted DeityKabuto. Needs moar fact-check.

Also pops had a weird defense of BL, saying he policy lynched "sometimes," when no one had even mentioned it, iirc.

You don't recall correctly.

popsofctown: Hello scumz. By the way, please explain how Hiraki is the "sheepiest" on that wagon and how it makes him scum, kthx.

His wagonhop post had no reasoning, and it was postclaim, which makes it worse. The claim should be a

deterrent

.

[popsofctown]

Pops: My mistake; you were voting for Parabollocks and my eyes played tricks on me. (I did check it, but somehow still got it wrong.)

Either way, here are the issues I have with your response post:

A) You say "I" lynched Antifinity and then chastise me for not fact-checking. I wasn't in the game at that point, and I believe my predecessor had flaked and wasn't voting for anybody at that point. So we have either two options here: you are mudslinging, and poorly at that, or you consider yourself separate from the town and thus refer to the town as "you."

I just assumed you're in the group that did/would have lynched Antifinity since you're attacking me for calling it a bad wagon. One should do extra fact-checking when one is trying to create a wagon, less is necessary for defending, voicing weaker suspicions, and speculating, because those don't have a dead body as the end result.

B) You fail to explain how I recall incorrectly. I dinstinctly remembering your strange defense of BL coming out of nowhere. Tell me what prompted that statement and why you felt the need to share, especially since BL was not even advocating any policy lynches at that time.

no u. Seriously. It's one thing for you to post that it came out of nowhere. It's another thing that you still don't want to go back and find it after being corrected. You're not showing any interest in gathering information about my alignment, only interest in getting my slot lynched. You're also creating unnecessary noise in the thread, which is harmful for a large game.

C) You fail to take into account that there were two cop claims at the time, and that Antifinity claimed in a very fishy way and was clearly confused about his own role. If 3 people claimed cop in one phase, are you saying we shouldn't lynch any of them and just give them a free pass to end game? Vezok should have spoken up, but he didn't, so people took his word over Antifinity's.

Cause it's totally not a confirmable role mirite.
We could have waited for two nights, if he didn't get nightkilled or siphon away the scum roleblock, he could put two investigations on record, then we could lynch him. Or by then vezok would be nightkilled and flip cop/not cop, and we'd be more certain. This is such bullcrap slippery slope logic.

I also don't like how you were content to let the wagon go by with a token disagreement before the flip but now you raaaage. It so looks like trying to get townie cred.

I gave token disagreement to lynching Antifinity, unclaimed player.

I would have vehemently disagreed with lynching Antifinity, claimed cop. He was lynched the SAME DAY. I'm raging because I DIDNT get to say my piece before the flip. Read the THREAD.

[popsofctown]

Oh, Kats got a vision too?

Can someone interpret the flavor of a winged creature who never flies?

That one's a bit more vague. My best guess would be a chocobo? But then some chocobos actually can fly, so I don't know.

Fat chocobo? Yellow chocos don't fly.

[popsofctown]

By asking me to repeat content that's already in the thread.

If you really wanted to discern my alignment, you would look at what I was actually reacting to, instead of letting me paraphrase in a potentially biased way. "Why did you feel the need to say X" is "Have you stopped beating your wife yet? y/n" bullcrap that suggests from the getgo that there was something unnatural about my bringing it up. You still refuse to go back through the thread and see what you missed, you still don't know if it's unnatural, even has merit, is worth the time of the other twenty or so players in the game.


And you did support the wagon. So I was correct including you in the group of people that incense me.

You're creating unuseful noise by asking me to repeat things you can find in thread yourself. Everyone has to read through your requests, and would have to read through the response if I didn't object instead.

[popsofctown]

sheepier may not be the right word, as you point it out. "opportunistic scum that wanted the lynch because it removed a PR from the game, rather than people who disliked Antifinity's play" would be a better description for post-claim adopters

[popsofctown]

This is just insane backtracking to me. How can you forget voting for someone? How is Antifinity's talk of the minigame dropped from :goodposting: when reck criticized it and worthy of a vote to only slightly scummy and not worthy of a vote? Not much changed in this time frame.

Well, I started an internship that Wednesday. I signed a nondisclosure agreement, talked to my new boss, plugged in my new computer, figured out how to install ubuntu from their server, read buttloads of material about how their software works... my brain ran out of room for Antifinity hatred.

So your comment just seemed really out of place to me. Why did you feel the need to speak up in defense of bunny lover's policy vigging policy when it was attacked, but criticizing bunny lover's policy lynching is :goodposting:? It was really incongruous and the phrasing didn't seem genuine.

Sorry, but our princess is in another castle

I think the third parties are gone. And hey, it turns out the Antifinity wagon was third party motivated. WHO COULD HAVE SEEN THAT COMING? DEFINITELY NOT ME, I ONLY WEAKLY VOTE PARABOLLOCKS AND FAIL TO SEE THE FUTURE AND DEFEND ANTIFINITIES CLAIM.

Friends and enemies deadly alliance just ended, with PB scum, even though he played rather protown early on. So,

unvote, vote PB

, I have to raise his bar. Also, all the third parties are (prob) gone now, so my concern that wagonhopping is also a third party thing deters me a bit less. The remaining possibilities are SK and scum.

[popsofctown]

Neither of your responses resolved the issues I brought up.

First Antifinity's minigame obsession is enough for a vote and then it isn't.

First attacks on Bunnylover's policy vendetta against DK is :goodposting:, then it deserves defense.

Which of these are your actual stances? Why the flip flops?

It just doesn't add up.

The vote was for pressure. Stop equating an L-42 vote with a hammer on a player with a claimed, confirmable role. Geeezes.

DK and reck's posts were very different. DK was saying that policy voting from BL is scummy because contradicts her built-in attitudes about policy voting. Reck's attack was that it was weak behavior, or something along those lines, which is more valid, I didn't care to say anything one way or the other and declared that post goodposting for its other content

[popsofctown]

It isn't just the over reaction, bunny.

Hiraki, I am not amused. The playstyke you're imitating isn't working for you.

YOU WILL DANCE WITH THAT STRAWMAN AND YOU'LL LIKE IT.

[popsofctown]

vote: parabollocks

if it's not there already.

He plays more protown than this as scum.

[popsofctown]

He plays more protown as this, even as scum.

[popsofctown]

there's generally protown players and generally antitown players. If someone is generally antitown, they'll be very anti town as scum, and somewhat anti town as town. If someone is generally protown, they'll be very protown as town, and somewhat protown as scum.


Since I've seen pb play pretty protown as scum, his bar is raised. The same way the bar is lower for some 8 players in this game that have done nothing useful whatsoever

[popsofctown]

You're a lost cause. If people not named Amrun don't understand my explanation, though I will clarify as much as I can.

[popsofctown]

I'm voting him...

[popsofctown]

I doubt any player plays more protown as scum than they do as town. So generally protown players have to seem exceedingly protown not to be scum.

People let anti-town players skate by all the time, I dunno why this is so hard to understand.

unvote

[popsofctown]

V/LA until monday or sooner.

[popsofctown]

Wow, slowest large ever. I have time to steal a post..

And nothing to post about. Diddin lynch is lazy, Kdub has explained why. Hiraki is acting really weird about the lynch, and I don't think it makes him look good.

unvote, vote Hiraki

. "You realize diddin lynch isn't happening" isn't protown and borders on IioA. His reaction to Amrun's (admittedly) loaded question was rather poor, he tried to condescend and make light of it, but it feels forced, the question boils down to "are you scum?", which is so cliche that an arrogant townie wouldn't even find humor in it. (Yes, he said "trying" to make him laugh, but that actual means something is pathetic in a novel way and is very nearly funny, that's sort of how the idiom goes)

Ok, INTENSE VERBAL ANALYSIS is done with, you can go back to your lives.

[popsofctown]

Diddin lynch is lazy, Kdub has explained why.

Err...I did? I've stated that I'm in favor of a diddin lynch today.

*preclaim*

Frankly im in agreeance with Pops at the moment.

Vote: Hiraki

<3

Panzerjagger is pretty useless. Now that Hiraki is doing decent scumhunting he might be a better lynch than Hiraki.

[popsofctown]

hiraki claimed mason?

[popsofctown]

I never stated he was scummy. I voted because he was the one being lynched. I had no idea if he would flip town or mafia. Did I ever state my opinion on him?

So let's see, you have no suspects, you vote people you don't think are scummy just because they are being wagoned, and you don't address accusations against you. And you try to pass that off as people not liking your playstyle?

Why? Do you not like my play style either?

Best Performance:Town

vote:DeathNote

For a while I thought his crappy defending made him seem to have low survival motive, but it's starting to look like an act. There's no frustration involved with his impending mislynch. Just I-know-you-are-but-what-am-I.

[popsofctown]

I've been prodded. The game kinda hinges around Glork so I'm kinda just here..

[popsofctown]

who's scum by vca atm moratorium

[popsofctown]

Anyone feel like doing a popcorn mass nameclaim just to get discussion going again? It's unlikely to reveal PRs given the town flips we've seen, will force the scum to commit to their fakeclaims now (limiting their future claim options), and the biggest problem right now is that there aren't any discussion points so the game is stalling.

I was hoping the first sentence would turn out to be "anyone feel like abandoning the game"

[popsofctown]

I can't even remember who's playing in this game.

[popsofctown]

I can't even remember who's playing in this game.

Replace out.

no u?

[popsofctown]

I'm just as active as you are amrun

[popsofctown]

technically we can still do stuff. But psychologically... people don't like working on decisions with incomplete information, only to have that change later when new info is brought in..

[popsofctown]

why not? I think this is somewhat uncharacteristic of him. Not a bad death really. The main counter argument against lynching him would be him being a protown force, but looks like it's more like antitown force right now.

-but does not want to be first to do it-

[popsofctown]

I think that the general thought of those who are "Glork = scum" is the fact that when he replaced, he was all "I'M GONNA GET YOU ALL SCUMMMMZ!!!!! NO VOTING TILL I GET BACK!!!!" then totally disappearing. Leading to a week of thumb twiddling, ball scratching, nothingness.

So you understand where I'm coming from, but think it can only be scumminess? Awesome.

Yeah, this is the kind of retarded mislynches that happen in games that stall for a week straight. And I don't necessarily mean "you're all retarded", I just mean the lynch is retarded. Wasn't a great post I made, frustratedly trying to assign blame for a bad situation to at least get something out of it.


So anyway, I'm not scum. And stuff. Blah blah blah.

[popsofctown]

ty

[popsofctown]

I'm torn between an obligation to try to win by stopping my lynch and a desire to get out of this game.

[popsofctown]

was my post that bad??

If Glork is actually is scum though, I'll have to smirk in my grave that I got lynched over this comment

[popsofctown]

I'm confused. I suggest that perhaps Glork should be killed, but say I'm not sure of myself.

Several people say I'm scummy for even having interest in seeing his head on a stick.

They then proceed to kill Glork without a claim.

Of course I guess they couldn't lynch me without killing Glork.

My head hurts.

unvote, vote: chronopie

Deadline restricted lurhunt vote.

[popsofctown]

Why do people do that? Why do they use absolutes when they can't possibly be sure? You know you don't know my alignment for sure, I know you don't know my alignment for sure, and everyone else knows that too. Before I've figured people who tended to word posts in absolutes like that were scum with absolute knowledge changing only the alignment part of their posts, but unfortunately that didn't work out empirically the way I wanted it to. It his, however, unreadable, a reinforcement of confirmation bias rather than any other more accurate voting motivation, and spammy.

[popsofctown]

Pops, wagons that dissolve that quickly are usually on scum. Of course I recognize that I might be wrong about you, but what's the point of pussyfooting around in my language?

I'm saying post 1378 has no value. Because it doesn't.

[popsofctown]

There's no sense in OMGUSing here, if anything this really the product of the lethargic environment produced by lurkers in this game. I'd say go after them after my flip.

Amrun, your post had nothing to do with the pressing deadline, KDub probably figured that out on his own. His logic had nothing to do with "scum wagons get abandoned", and he has a more accurate read on me than you do that he voted against to meet the deadline because that's the appropriate play. It's ok for you to be wrong, and it's ok to be useless, but don't be wrong, useless, and pompous about it. That's overtly obnoxious. Your constant, confirmation biased tunneling spotlighted a player that was interesting rather than scummy, which in this inactive environment lead to a lynch that filled a vacuum. And like I said earlier in the post, that's more the inactives' fault than yours, because at least you're putting out a good effort to find scum, but please don't make obnoxious posts like 1387. It makes you look stupid.

[popsofctown]

1387 happens to be an anagram of 1378, so I'll make a note here I'm not repeatedly referring to the same post by number

[popsofctown]

That was necessarily me being useful, it was just me raging.

I told the town to lurkerhunt after this. That's my best recommendation. Nothing else can be done with a town this lethargic. I've not seen much else that sticks out well.