Mini 1179: Paranoia Mafia

[CooLDoG]

/cookies?

Obligatory game disclaimer.
This game is part of my self imposed "improvement" project. Any advice you can give me is very much appreciated. I might try a different style of posting, playing, etc. I generally like to let people know this before a game starts so that they aren't taken off guard by a new play style that I'm trying.

[CooLDoG]

^then you are anti-town.

vote:Vexokpiraka

[CooLDoG]

Why are we not lynching vezok?

So we have an sk claim, who is a 3rd party anti-town and we decide to lynch some other guy? What the fuck?

[CooLDoG]

LOL.
It was page one in RVS. I wasn't claiming SK lol.

yeah sure it was a joke. About one and a half pages after a claim we hear that it was a joke.

I simply don't see any substantive arguments warranting an occult lynch. How is having a point system to judge actions scummy/antitown?

@ladylambdadelta, what are the reasons behind your votes?

[CooLDoG]

Its not just having a point system Cooldog. Is that the point system is a LIE.

Not only was it a LIE, then Occult claimed that it was an elaborate TRAP.

But it wasnt just a TRAP, he then further backpedaled and called it a JOKE.

In other words, Occult is just simply NOT telling the TRUTH.

Okay lets run through this then (so I can understand it).

1)

From my experience, players are going to suggest policy lynches, its hardly a scum tell. Trying to start a easy wagon without stating a reason, that my friend is a scum tell.

FoS:Glass (-2)

To make my positions clear this game, I will be stealing from Mr. Vollkan's playbook and

ALL

of your actions will be scored. I have a detailed flow chart of every possible action one can have as well as every possible reaction to every possible actions. Through the powers of

math

and

eqautions

all of my decisions will be made by the

cold hand of science

this game, no

emotions

will be involved what so ever.

Then three people (lld, glass, and surey) vote for occult based off of the above.

Next we have this,

Nothing gets a game out of RVS faster then posting something asinine, it also helps you find someone willing to wagon for very little reson this early in the game and we have our first taker for a scummy vote.

VOTE: Occult
How is a single vote "starting a wagon"? Reaching like crazy in that post.

vote Surye

now all I did was FoS glass for the vote, piling the third vote on me for as something as small as that tells me that, you sir are eager to throw down a lynch

.

From my experience, players are going to suggest policy lynches, its hardly a scum tell. Trying to start a easy wagon without stating a reason, that my friend is a scum tell.

How exactly is umbrage an "easy wagon"?

I have a detailed flow chart of every possible action one can have as well as every possible reaction to every possible actions. Through the powers of math and eqautions all of my decisions will be made by the cold hand of science this game, no emotions will be involved what so ever.

I call BS. There is no way you have a flowchart to handle millions of different scenarios even if you don't account for different player's play styles.

VOTE: occult

Yes Glass, it's all true, God popped out of my closet and gave me the flow chart. He also gave me a spy glass that allows me to look into the very souls of man and a 1st edition holographic Charizard.


As for cooldog, I don't know if that reaction is scummy an SK claim is an SK claim, even if its not believable, I'd say keep an eye on him.

So based on this he was just posting that to get three votes on him and call out scum. Wow that is bullshit. I should have read that more carefully (walls at start of game don't make me happy).

@vezo, Why did you post the sk claim? Do you really think its pro-town to joke claim?

[CooLDoG]

unvote
vote occult

He is a very bad scum. He lied backpedaled and did lots of scummy stuff.

Like you haven't.

[CooLDoG]

unvote
vote occult

He is a very bad scum. He lied backpedaled and did lots of scummy stuff.

Like you haven't.

His sk joke. "It was only a joke guys" comment.

@occult, what are these messages and status that you speak of?

[CooLDoG]

^look, not to defend anybody here, but its obviously comedic. At least she has found a way to communicate with the toown. And trust me its better then how she normally plays.

IS, I have played several games with you and I have never seen you wanting to quick lynch like this. You have always argued strongly for the lynch that you want, but never for a quick lynch. I admit Occult is scummy, and will most likly end up as today's lynch, but if we lynched occult now and he flipped town we would have to go through d-1 again on d-2.

[CooLDoG]

Not true Dog. Weren't you in that game with me where I nailed that Lord Cable guy on day 1? I was all over him from the start because I was sure of it. Once I find scum, there is no point in hesitating, once you flip one scum, the rest are ridiculously easy to find.

I was in that game. But in that game he came out and said, "Hay guys I didn't really have a post restriction, I was just fucking with you.". Here LLD really has a post restriction, she isn't stupid enough to fake it. And I was saying that in that post she was obviously making a joke, not a making up a post restriction to be funny.

I think Occult is full of crap. I still haven't received a PM due to my status. So clearly Occult is scum trying to half ass claim some PR.

It seems counter intuitive that you would gain a power role from being closer to being lynch. It also seems like crap that you can gain 1-3 different roles from being so close to a lynch.

As my status further deteriorates it seems that I may actually be able to "post myself to death" according to the mod I still have a one shot jail-keep (its worded quite strangely, as if I would suffer through its usage) but I can post a name in thread and jail keep (roleblock and protect) them for the rest of the day and tonight. So if the town would like me to JK someone I would be willing to give it a try. The other PM I got has strongly warned me to stop posting, if I post or am prodded I will be suffering consequences soon apparently.

This is simply an excuse not to post. And negative consequences =/= to death.

unvote, vote: occult

that's l-1. No stupid hammers.

[CooLDoG]

I cant wait to see what crapass bullshit fake fantasy roleclaim Occult has come up for us.

Exactly, unfortunately we only get a vt claim.

Sorry about not posting, but nothing much has really changed in my mind. Occult is still scum, still don't get the case on IS.

Btw, is it possible for scum to have a posting restriction? I have never seen it, so I would say that LLD is likely town.

Also, when Occult flips scum I think that cooldog is a good pick for the scumpartner, he ignored the occult wagon for no reason and tried to attack vezok for what was obviously a joke, when it comes clear that occult is going to get lynched he suddenly is like: "HEY GUYS I WASNT READING, OCCULT IS SCUMMY, BUSSSSSSS"

The post restriction is mod wifom. Secondly this game is only 4 pages long, and I did talk about the ocult wagon on page 3.


@ocult, so you are a vanilla townie, but because people were wanting to lynch you, you got supper powers that are very pro-town.

[CooLDoG]

@lobster, because I was wanting to see vezos reaction to my vote, posts.

@zodiack, realize that if you hammer the day ends and we have barely used up any of the time aloted to us.

@lld, I know this will be hard to describe, but why is IS scum with Occult? Is it a bus or something like that?

[CooLDoG]

@nopoint, I got mixed up with who was the mod and who was the hammerer.

@lld, using your post restriction is it possible to express your suspicion of IS? If you can would you? And I hope to god it isn't thhe third vote bullshit... Speaking of lynch wagons,

I am willing to bet that scum were on that wagon, I don't see how a purely town motivated wagon could reach a lynch in only 148 posts.

[CooLDoG]

Ldd's role is most likely a mute townie. Obviously the "points at mouth" gives it away. Very nice role if I might say so myself.

I'm going to do some re-reading, but I really don't have time today, and I have to keep the line free (I have dial-up do not ask) for phone calls due to a family issue.

[CooLDoG]

IS seems like a valid enough wagon, but I still haven't gone back to see how the wagon materialized so quickly.

@mod, the on-going family issue prevents me from posting a lot. Consider this to be a partial v/la

[CooLDoG]

Okay, that was fucking cool.

I just got a pm saying that because of post number 148:

@nopoint, I got mixed up with who was the mod and who was the hammerer.

@lld, using your post restriction is it possible to express your suspicion of IS? If you can would you? And I hope to god it isn't thhe third vote bullshit... Speaking of lynch wagons,

I am willing to bet that scum were on that wagon, I don't see how a purely town motivated wagon could reach a lynch in only 148 posts.

I have "entered worried status" I now have a vote blocking ability that lets me prevent someone from voting. The only logical connection between my status going down is the fact that I mentioned 148 in my post 148.

why are people voting for internet stranger? Ohh, right I forgot because we h ave nothing to go on from d-1 because we quick lynched someone...

@lld, is it at all possible to express your case on IS?
@vezo, how do you conclude that vezo is town?

@mod, I'm on a semi v/la, I should still be able to post, but I can't spend long time on the internet. It is not a full v/la

[CooLDoG]

okay, so because hiraka suspected IS he killed him during the night. Correct?

[CooLDoG]

@glass, I wanted to see how occult would have acted under an l-1. But people had other ideas. And I don't want to jump on a wagon that doesn't have a case on it. I don't have the time to build a string case (read v/la and a game in a 5/3 mylo where I'msortaunderpressuretopost) so I do prefer to stay on the fence right now. And yes, I am complaining about the occult lynch, their shouldn't have been a quick lynch.

[CooLDoG]

-points at your blatant misrepresentation of an easy target-

-points at arbitrarily assigned numerical values that aid your argument but aren't valid-

-points at rope-

Okay, so you can't post in words but you can post like this.
let's test this out. What are your penalties for not posting actions? And post this:
-move's hands in sign language to say: I can bend the rules with actions. So why can't this work?-

Second off, the game is only 8 pages long, Umbridge had plenty of time to read it before he posted. Some people don't think these days.

@umbrdige what is this "I can't post except after a prod" nonsense?

[CooLDoG]

@glass, I wanted to see how occult would have acted under an l-1. But people had other ideas. And I don't want to jump on a wagon that doesn't have a case on it. I don't have the time to build a string case (read v/la and a game in a 5/3 mylo where I'msortaunderpressuretopost) so I do prefer to stay on the fence right now. And yes, I am complaining about the occult lynch, their shouldn't have been a quick lynch.

Oh god, this post. Occult was already spazzing at L-3 and you thought that you could gain something from putting him at L-1? Not to mention that this justification only works if you were unsure about your occult read, which does not seem to be the case reading over your day 1 posts.

He had just said that he had gained

more

powers from getting votes on him. And quite frankly he was spewing out bullshit. I wanted to see if he could give a more rational defense if his lynch was right in front of his face.

let's test this out. What are your penalties for not posting actions? And post this:
-move's hands in sign language to say: I can bend the rules with actions. So why can't this work?-

Hey guys, let's see how much stretching of the rules we can do before LLD gets modkilled.

Lol wut? Blatant soft defending? This is typical scummish behavior regardless of IS's alignment.

That wasn't him defending, it was him fencesitting. I like your vote though.

You would be correct. I was/am purposefully doing this until I find time to read the game (wich is actually going to be this afternoon barring meteor strike). I simply don't want my vote out there if I'm going to be on sporadic v/la.

[CooLDoG]

Oh I see.

Fail scum is fail. But he is still nopoint. I remember nopoint being a good player.

^that is not a legitimate reason to vote for him. He could be a good player, but he could also be scum at the same time. The condition "being a good player" and the condition of being "scum" are not mutually exclusive.

Barring interruption I will now re-read the game and vote in my next post.

@mod, okay, every thing has cleared up. No need to be on v/la any longer

[CooLDoG]

I'm a SK. Discuss.

First post that catches my eye. Vezo, is this a vig claim or are you just stupid?

From my experience, players are going to suggest policy lynches, its hardly a scum tell. Trying to start a easy wagon without stating a reason, that my friend is a scum tell.

FoS:Glass (-2)

To make my positions clear this game, I will be stealing from Mr. Vollkan's playbook and

ALL

of your actions will be scored. I have a detailed flow chart of every possible action one can have as well as every possible reaction to every possible actions. Through the powers of

math

and

eqautions

all of my decisions will be made by the

cold hand of science

this game, no

emotions

will be involved what so ever.

The post that started the occult wagon. The actual content of the post is debatable (Is running a point sytem good? I personally don't think so...). Could be worth an RVS vote, but we have a claimed sk here...

FoS:Glass (-2)

To make my positions clear this game, I will be stealing from Mr. Vollkan's playbook and

ALL

of your actions will be scored. I have a detailed flow chart of every possible action one can have as well as every possible reaction to every possible actions. Through the powers of

math

and

eqautions

all of my decisions will be made by the

cold hand of science

this game, no

emotions

will be involved what so ever.

The post that started the occult wagon. The actual content of the post is debatable (Is running a point sytem good? I personally don't think so...). Could be worth an RVS vote, but we have a claimed sk here...

VOTE: Occult[/quote]
I hate the "vote" tag. But besides that LLD doesn't even try to explain her vote here. Even with the post restriction she could still "point at rvs" or "point at above post, Points at specific bolded part, shakes head in disgust"

VOTE: Occult
How is a single vote "starting a wagon"? Reaching like crazy in that post.

yeah, we know where this is going. Total bullshit on Occult. He later posts saying that this was a trap, but it doesn't seem relevant at this point. What I am looking for is the reactions after occults "trap"...

OK, so with no jesters, I see absolutely no reason for anyone to fakeclaim SK. Or realclaim it for that matter. I'm using meta when I say that I think vezok is telling the truth.

Which might make the following seem kind of weird, but hey.

unvote, vote: Occult

Your latest post is the scummiest thing I've read in a long long time. You're basically saying that you did something 'asinine' on purpose to get reactions, yes?

Tell me, how is what you did different from what Surye just did? Let me tl; dr things for you:

1) Occult votes for a stupid reason.
2) Surye votes Occult for voting for a stupid reason.
3) Occult votes Surye, saying that it was all a big trick. Occult says that Surye is trying to get a lynch for a stupid reason. Occult says he wants a lynch on Surye.

Do you see the hypocrisy? Let me point it out: saying you want a lynch on someone because they wanted a lynch on you for the same reason you now want a lynch on them is stupid and scummy. Mostly scummy.

I don't buy your little OH IT WAS A TRAP FOR SCUM excuse. Surye could say his vote on you was a purposely asinine thing he did to catch scum, and he'd have the same credibility that you do now.

You are lying. If you really wanted to set up a trap for scum you could've done a way better job than some math bullshit. I think that was a real play style you had, and when everybody complained, you tried to back out and say it was all a set-up. Trouble is, TOWN DOESN'T DO THAT. Town would either go "OK, I guess I'll change" or "nah, I'm gonna keep doin this". Only SCUM would go "WHAT ME DO SOMETHING BAD NO WAY THIS WAS MY PLAN ALL ALONG HAHA".

Yes Glass, it's all true, God popped out of my closet and gave me the flow chart. He also gave me a spy glass that allows me to look into the very souls of man and a 1st edition holographic Charizard.

As for cooldog, I don't know if that reaction is scummy an SK claim is an SK claim, even if its not believable, I'd say keep an eye on him.

What is this? What does this say? What does it mean? What points are you trying to make? This is just empty bullshit thrown in to try and make it look like you're saying something useful.

It actually does make the following slightly weird. You just hopped onto the biggest wagon my friend even though you yourself think that vezo is telling the truth. So is vezo the best lynch or do you just side with the largest wagon?

LOL.
It was page one in RVS. I wasn't claiming SK lol.

"ohhh shit did I post that?" And as per only one night kill we can go into wifom. Did vezo no kill to "prove 'em wrong" or was his kill doc saved? That's wifom and isn't productive to talk about.

From my experience, players are going to suggest policy lynches, its hardly a scum tell. Trying to start a easy wagon without stating a reason, that my friend is a scum tell.

FoS:Glass (-2)

To make my positions clear this game, I will be stealing from Mr. Vollkan's playbook and

ALL

of your actions will be scored. I have a detailed flow chart of every possible action one can have as well as every possible reaction to every possible actions. Through the powers of

math

and

eqautions

all of my decisions will be made by the

cold hand of science

this game, no

emotions

will be involved what so ever.

Oh no, not this systematic point assessment crap again. DIE DIE DIE.

Vote: Occult

I also disagree with the whole "trap" argument. Its becoming really popular as im seeing it over and over again. Its about time a scum tried it to gain some illicit towncred.

Anyone else notice that not all of the vote count seemed off?

Im also not going to deal with Vezo at the moment.

We should get rid of him before the end of the game, but I think we got scum in Occult here now.

Notice that no real reasons are given. Except for the point system (debatable), and the slight mention of the "trap" being scummy.
Question: Are you saying in the above post that you would lynch Occult over a claimed sk? And are you not even going to talk about his claim?

So we have an sk claim, who is a 3rd party anti-town and we decide to lynch some other guy? What the fuck?

I believe that the claim is what most people call a joke.

vote Surye now all I did was FoS glass for the vote, piling the third vote on me for as something as small as that tells me that, you sir are eager to throw down a lynch.

How exactly do you equate putting a third vote on somebody as eager to lynch? What about IS, he put an L-2 vote on after all. Is he eager to lynch? I also noticed you did not answer my question... or was your first sentence also part of your "trap"?

Possible soft defense. And not talking about it other then it "being a joke".

...

Unvote; Vote: IS

-twitch-

Again, no valid reason for voting. Not even an attempt. Is the twitch supposed to mean its a gut read? Be more specific.

Hey Umbrage, notice how the first post Occult put out (#38) is so different than (#43)?

Occult didnt panic when he got the first three votes. His plan was in full effect and was ready to start a crapwagon on Surye.

Then, Votes #4 and #5 came from you and I, and he started to PANIC. (Or worry, as stated by the mod list). He started to scramble, oh shit, this scum gambit it backfired on him. So he started backpedaling like a clown on an unicycle. "Oh heys guyz, it was a tactic, to catch scum. Yea. I was kidding, yea. Thats it".

Basically, Occult was trying to be cute and pull a scum ploy and he got CAUGHT. I think

Occult is a good lynch candidate right now.

Vezo wasnt being elaborate when he was fucking with the town, but Occult was being downright deliberate. Time to hang, OccultScum.

-twitch-

I still don't get it. You seem to not want to explain your votes here.

My vote aint changing. OccultScum needs to hang.

And Umbrage, all the smilies in the world dont explain why Lamda suddenly switched to me. Are her smilies traps too? She can twitch all she wants, but how useful is she really going to be as we progress?

This is exactly what I'm thinking right now.. Possible fake PostR and a bus?

unvote
vote occult

He is a very bad scum. He lied backpedaled and did lots of scummy stuff.

wow, mind=blown. I can copy other people's reasons word for word too you know. Pathetic, you aren't helping the town one bit with this kinda posting.

My vote aint changing. OccultScum needs to hang.

And Umbrage, all the smilies in the world dont explain why Lamda suddenly switched to me. Are her smilies traps too? She can twitch all she wants, but how useful is she really going to be as we progress?

-points at you-

-twitch-

-holds up rope-



-points at Occult-

-holds up rope-

Don't get it. Explain better.

In that case Lamda, since Oocult and I are the embodiment of evil in your eyes, why not Oocult first?

In other words, let's lynch this other guy so I can survive for one more night. Scum points here.

If one of them is scum, I think it should be Occult. Becuz he soft-brought up the fact that the last time they were this way they were both town. But I don't think we should rule out the possibility that both of them is town or scum?

I" don't want to look bad, so both could or could not be scum or even one could be scum and one could be town" This is non-decisiveness. If anything is scummy this is.

LLD is getting worrying as she is not actually making any case on anyone...

-facepalm-

-sigh-

Question: Do you know the mechanic that makes people worried?

Lambda could always be faking it too.

perfectly legit theory.

Lambda could always be faking it too.

-points finger at you and jumps up and down-

-drags you to the tallest tree in the village and hangs you from it-

-looks for support-

"Because he suggests that I am faking it I want to lynch him more".
Question: at this point, why do you want to lynch IS more?

I cant wait to see what crapass bullshit fake fantasy roleclaim Occult has come up for us.

Part of the reason why I put occult to l-1...

Occult is still scum.

Look now he's super paranoid or whatever the heck.

*looks for face-desk emote. Is slightly disappointed*

LLD:
her

voting

restriction really makes it hard for her to get her points across, but i have a pretty strong town read from her nonetheless. i dont fully see her IS case, or why she thinks it rivals Occult's scumminess, but from what i gather she obviously sees IS's actions as scum trying to rush a mislynch on occultwho, if town, is making himself an easy target for such a mislynch) and sheeping umbrage's initial points.

Slip-up, no?

After this starts day-2. And I already have gone over that a few times.

Conclusion:
Vezo and LLD are ether scum or really anti-town. LLD could be faking her post restriction to gain town cred a dodge normal responsibilities. Hell, I would do it as scum too. I don't find IS to be scumy after d-1, the only possible element that drew my attention was that he pushed avidly for his lynch, and that isn't anti-town. Lobster has a slip-up late in d-1 that he/she/it has to answer to, but her/his/it's (I hate pronouns) play in day-2 is solid up to this point.

Ether vezo or lld are perfectly good votes for me

vote: vezo

Try actually posting content instead of sheeping. Stop luring and build a case to justify your vote/votes. And what about that SK claim?

[CooLDoG]

quote tag is messed up in one of lld's quotes.

to make sure:

unvote, vote: Vezo

[CooLDoG]

^so because I attack the validity of your post restriction that makes me scum.

Question: Can I attack you and not be scum?

[CooLDoG]

LLD, the thing is that your PR is so limiting that its almost an ether or.

[CooLDoG]

And you aren't exactly building a quality case on NS.

[CooLDoG]

I first made the below early today:
@no point, my reads have changed since I re-read the game. I assume that is the whole reason to re-read the game correct? To see how people reacted with respect to day-2. At the start of the game she was very cautious with her restriction. Only making "twitches" and "points at x player". Now she has gone off the deep end and points at specific actions, "points at people who are arguing at post restrictions alone" witch is also subjective. Even though she can do this now (apparently it was an ability gained over night) she has yet to build a case, which she could easily do if she can point at actions. An example would be "point at bolded part of this quote, point at scum meter which is rising, point at bolded contradiction in above quote, etc.". Her post restriction changes in day-2, that is indicative of faking a post restriction. At the time I posted the above it was ether in day-1 where I did not have info from day-2, or it was in day-2 where I hadn't re-read the game and didn't have the knowledge of her changing post restriction.

@LLD, aside from the blatant omgus, invalid logic, and the refusal to answer questions, is it possible for you to at least out line one argument in favor of my or IS's lynch? Or are you only selective in your bending of the rules?

unvote, vote: LLD

Vezo and LLD are both = wagons in my personal opinion.

@vezo, is it possible for you to post anything but "Ohh hay guys. Gee, I don't know who to pick. Maybe the two biggest wagons are okay. Yeah Lets "get this lynch over with" and quick lynch somebody"? What are your arguments. Why is LLD scummy? Why am I scummy? These are questions that town people answer before they vote for somebody. HAPPY SCUM DAY TO YOU! No joke.


Note: if I get lynched notice how LLD is still not responding to any of my suspicons.

I just got a pm that I have JK powers. I personally think its bullshit but that is just me. I don't think a mod would reward a player with special powers if they are at l-1 without some type of hidden mechanic.

[CooLDoG]

unvote

I want to see if this works.

@IS, He may have gotten the same pm; all I'm saying is that I find it very odd for a player at l-1 to get super powers.

[CooLDoG]

What is with our status?

Is there any possibility that we have death millers?

Cdog is scum for the way he posts. He's OMGUSING me because I'm voting him. He doesn't try to defend. Just get people off his wagon.

Okay lets run through this.

CooLDoG points out legitimate reasons as to why you are scummy. He voters for you. You do not respond to any of his reasons
Then CooLDoG unvotes you because another person isn't answering his questions and is contributing even less to the game (yes LLD that be you).
The you say, "waaa, he da voting me... Waaaaa I don't want to be voted for its omgus.... waaaaaa. Don't lynch me!"

In other news I sent in a vote block on LLD. I'm sick and tired of her shit. And until she explains her reasons I don't think she should have the right to vote for somebody.

[CooLDoG]

@glass, now do you see the reason for a re-read? Ohh, and by the way you get scum points if your reads change after your re-read. And by no means can you at all compair day-2 actions with day01 actions. Its simply not pro-town.

^if didn't catch the sarcasm then you have no life.

[CooLDoG]

^actually a lot of things happened in the day. I re-read the game. I compared her actions in day-2 to day-1. I find her actions to change drastically. I see that she has gotten a lot more "liberal" with her post restriction, to the point that her posts stress the bounds of it. Pointing at a group of people with a subjective generalization is impossible to express with just a point.

Question: what is the point of re-reading if you can't change your reads after you have finished reading?

[CooLDoG]

So you still will not answer anything directed at you? The only reason I'm not going to jk you is because it would block a possible night kill. Vig shots go to her to night if she still hasn't answered any questions.

[CooLDoG]

point at shit then

[CooLDoG]

explain your votes

[CooLDoG]

So is it invalid to attack you?

[CooLDoG]

Also:

1) sheep you never expressed this before

2) I re-read the game

3) I also re-read the game...

4) read the game it might come in handy

5) having a post restriction does not make you town

6) Why didn't you post like you are now in d-1?

7) I asked you to test your post restrictions limits. I find it very odd that a mute person can't use sign language.

8) Weren't you the one who voted for me instead of answering to my arguments. Yeah you were.

address all of these points with quotes and farther reasoning.

ninja edit: My attack is not on your post restriction. Its on the fact that you are not contributing to the game.

[CooLDoG]

size =/= to contribution. I re-read the whole game. And rest assure that I didn't miss anything. You have yet to lay out a point by point case on why I am scum.

your case:

"He be attacking people with post restriction. He is attacking people. He must be scum"

Answer my comments.

[CooLDoG]

*sigh*

"-says moves hands in to communicate doing (verb usage?) sign language to say, 'my reasons for voting x,y,z are: A, B, and C"

I also find it quite brutal that someone with a post restriction only has to mess up once before getting mod killed. At least she should ask the mod if the above would be acceptable via pm. The she could just "nod head" or "shake head" in response to the "bolded" part of this post. Quite simple really.

Did you or did you not read the end section of my wall? Did you or did you not notice how I talked to Vezo? Did you or did you not notice who I voted for before LLD?

Before my re-read I did not have any solid reads. Now I have at least two scum reads and a few decent town reads.

[CooLDoG]

ninja post because I didn't see page 12:

-points at lld's last post

-points at thin air that represents her answers

-points at how she has yet to answer to anything except whining over the fact that she is being attack

-points that she is just making excuses

-points at thin air again, this time representing her contribution to the game

-points at her hands, implying why she can only point with them

-points at her mouth, implying that she can probably speak

- points at CooLDoG's last post (the one before the ninja), implying that non of the comments were answered

-points at LLD who is whining at the fact that she can't think up of a substantive argument

[CooLDoG]

grammar fail!

attack should be attack

ed

[CooLDoG]

Sometimes sheeping is bad, this time sheeping is badass.


Do not worry, I have plenty more of these.

Threat: I will say one corny/stupid line every 24 hours until we lynch LLD.

[CooLDoG]

GO TEAM CoLDoG.

Answer to the comments LLD.

[CooLDoG]

Notice how she has yet to make up an original point about me. She just copies what other people say.

Sheep do go bah.

[CooLDoG]

I started this wagon, back off.

[CooLDoG]

Actually, to be correct, vezo started the wagon.

LLD, still waiting for answers.

[CooLDoG]

^So it looks fake that she isn't answer my questions? Or does it look fake because her post restriction isn't really there?

[CooLDoG]

...

-slaps forehead-

-points at mod-

-points at self-

-points at warning in inbox-

-points at me forgetting which game this was-

-sighs deeply-

[CooLDoG]

also: complete parrot of IS's last post.

[CooLDoG]

^yes, simply vote for LLD and you won't even need to catch up.

@vezo, good catch, but he could have had his identity hidden. And your post is much latter then LLD's...

[CooLDoG]

@glass, IS parrot is the fact that you have had a tendency as of late to avoid talking about LLD. She should have gotten a warning not a modkill.

My reasons for voting for LLD can be found on pages 11-12.

@LLD, Are you even going to try to defend yourself?

[CooLDoG]

Now, we just need LLD to get in here to hopefully respond to this stuff. I highly doubt she will though.

[CooLDoG]

The next time I look at this thread LLD had better be lynched. That is all I am saying.

[CooLDoG]

Catch-up post:

The next time I look at this thread LLD had better be lynched. That is all I am saying.

THEN TRY PLACING YOUR VOTE ON HER.

i think cooldog did, but his vote was then on himself. something scummy happening with voting and statuses.

Remember back when the vote count screwed up?

Again, I do NOT have a gun.

Youre assuming that snapped = gun. Umbrage got something randomly, its possible that Occult got something randomly, now LLD got something randomly. I didnt get a gun or a jailkeep or whatever else someone else got.

For example, why didnt LLD get a jailkeep then?

I have a jail keep. I have not used it.

Again, I do NOT have a gun.

Youre assuming that snapped = gun. Umbrage got something randomly, its possible that Occult got something randomly, now LLD got something randomly. I didnt get a gun or a jailkeep or whatever else someone else got.

For example, why didnt LLD get a jailkeep then?

-looks for what your present was-

-shows no jailkeep in hands-

role fish. Add that to the list. The only reason I claimed was to add some clarity to what the mechanic does. More info = greater chance at win.

So from LLD's previous posts it seems that there has to be at least one scum in LLD-IS. My question is, if she knows that IS is scum, why is she not voting for him?

Bus your scum bud already. Every page that I read without an lld lynch makes my eye's bleed.

-points at IS "snapping"-

-points at "snapping" implying "crazy"-

-points at the connection between this and a SERIAL KILLER-

Do I have to pull up the bullshit-o-meter again?

-points at the post where I speculate that IS can be SK or town-

But not mafia??? O_o
WHAT HAPPENED TO VIG?

WHY THE FUCK WOULD AN SK GET A VIG SHOT?

^

This past page has been making no sense LLD. Like, none. Zero.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: LLD

Now we wait for cooldog to come on and hammer.

thank you for giving me the honors.

unvote, vote: lld

===============[]

@ta, reasons dude, that's something that town do, remember?

[CooLDoG]

Is this not mylo?

vote: glass

Blatantly ignoring the LLD wagon.

[CooLDoG]

Claim: VT. Except for the vote block and JK.

[CooLDoG]

I doubt strong man. Its sorta out there (I have never seen one. In fact I have never heard of one). I also highly doubt d. His mechanics have to have something attached to them. The only possibility I see is ether b or c. I did not jk you last night. I jked glass last night to rb him.

[CooLDoG]

EBWOP: Your reasoning is also weak. I ignored the wagon because I thought she was town for most of day 2. How is this scummy?

For the reason that you didn't comment on it at all. You just let it take its course to a lynch. You simply didn't care about it. That is why you are scum. You simply let it do what ever it wanted not caring about what she flipped.

[CooLDoG]

^exactly.

Glass is scum that's it. Unless you guys want to lynch a lurker now.

@TA/glass, Case?

[CooLDoG]

@no point. I had a jail keep. I didn't jk umbridge. If that is insider information then yes I have it.

Glass is scummy for ignoring the LLD wagon because he didn't care if she got lynched. Simple as that. He only cares about surviving and lynching town.

[CooLDoG]

Also vezo, I know its not in your meta or anything, but could you give us some reasons for your votes? You are coming in near my #2/3 scum read.

[CooLDoG]

Glass is scummy for ignoring the LLD wagon because he didn't care if she got lynched. Simple as that. He only cares about surviving and lynching town.

I did not ignore the wagon because I "didn't care if she got lynched", I ignored it because I thought she was town. I would love to see how you came to the conclusion that all I care about is surviving, and if I wanted to lynch town wouldn't I have wanted to get LLD lynched?

I think that she is likely town tbh, and your attempts to shove through this lynch with nothing more than "she is faking her post restriction" and "she should have been modkilled" are pure speculation and have NO basis behind them.

This is me caring that LLD is getting lynched.

Try more, scum.
I think that vezok or nopoint is likely cooldog's partner.

^that was only after you were called out over it.

@vezo, I always assume 3 scum unless proven otherwise. Also, why am I scummy if I may ask?

[CooLDoG]

More glass votes please.

[CooLDoG]

@LC, ohh yeah Vezo is my big number two. Its simply that I want glass lynched here and now. I won't be satisfied unless glass is lynched.

Vezok is hard-core lurking. He has posted zero content. He has also never justified his vote except to say "Ohh Emmm Geee, that guy is scum". He would be a great lynch if it wasn't for glass's overt scummines.

[CooLDoG]

^no its, I think glass is scum because he ignored a wagon that he knew was townie. Big difference.

[CooLDoG]

I declare Umbridge the winner. Can we lynch glass now?

@#443, No I can tell by your over all reaction to the LLD wagon that you didn't care if she got lynched or not.

[CooLDoG]

^good question... I wonder if vezo will ever explain his reads.

Correction, he cared very much - when he thought she was a vig, the most powerful town PR.

^That was only after he realized she was in fact the "vig". He he showed no interest in the fact that she could have been town (or in his mind, was town).

UNVOTE:
VOTE: umbrage
I have had enough of your bullshit.

The "going for an easy target" attack is just lame since I would consider half the players here "easy lynches".

'I'm attacking Y who is not an easy lynch'

Notice the similarity?

No, because there is NO similarity. In my quote I said that you attacking me for accusing an easy lynch is lame.
In your quote you're saying that if someone said that they were attacking someone who is NOT an easy lynch they would be scummy. These are two completely different things.

The question that you asked LC? Didn't know I was supposed to answer that.

That was to LC? Oh yeah. So why the hell are we talking about it?

You brought it up as an attack against me. You attacking me for not answering a question that you posed LC shows that you did not even realize what the hell you were talking about.

Remember this? When you LIED, hoping nobody would remember back to D2?

Too bad for you, but anyone can read back and see the truth. Only vezokpiraka had expressed suspicion of LLD before I launched my attack, making the above quote a LIE. A LIE that you're now desperately trying to cover up. But I'm onto you now.

Well, why don't you explain this "lie" then? I see no lie at all, except you saying that I lied.

OK, so let me get this straight...

IS expresses suspicion of nopoint.

IS is killed and flips town.

You think nopoint is scum when you previously thought him town the day before.

And yet this has NOTHING TO DO with the fact that the ONLY person who suspected him wound up dead?

Correct. And IS was not the ONLY person. Have you forgotten surye?

I declare Umbridge the winner. Can we lynch glass now?

Correction, he cared very much - when he thought she was a vig, the most powerful town PR.

Except... LLD never expressed suspicion of me. Judging by day 2 it seems as though she would have shot IS if she lived to the night. Why would I be worried about that if I were scum?

And here comes the omgus. I think we can all agree that this is today's lynch...

[CooLDoG]

Have I ever said that surye is town? I actually haven't talked much about surye.... Vezo is more scummy because he throws his vote around with no reasons, surye hasn't voted. Both, however, have yet to produce real content. And I interpret surye's lack of content as scummy, yes. But vezo is not only lacking content but also voting without reasons.

[CooLDoG]

^Don't bail out on me man. You actually think that him omgusing you is a town reaction? *snif, snif* Do I smell a scum bus?

[CooLDoG]

Also: Sniff actually has two "f" s. I did not know that...

[CooLDoG]

@No point. I think you mis understand what I'm saying about the JK. That is the only "inside information" I have. All that I know is that I JKed glass. And during the day I vote blocked LLD. And if you read the thread you should know why I think glass is scum. Catch up Before posting next time.

Lets look at Vezok...

Warning: A player is at L-1. Please be careful with your votes.

Occult [L-2] - Glass, Surye, Umbrage, Internet Stranger, vezokpiraka, CooLDoG,

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Occult lynch wagon.

Why Vezo voted for Occult:

unvote
vote occult

He is a very bad scum. He lied backpedaled and did lots of scummy stuff.

Lady Lambdadelta [L-DEAD] - vezokpiraka, Umbrage, Internet Stranger, Surye, Glass, CooLDoG,

The LLD wagon

Why vezok thought LLD was scum:

unvote
vote LLD

Her fight with IS is not a tvt.; It's a scum vs town fight.

I'll bet she is the scum.

Not lack of quoting or clarification on why its not tvt. And whi IS is not scum and why LLD is...

I would post a vote count of the wagon that I just went through, but the mod hasn't posted one...

Vezok's CooLDoG vote:

Cdog is still scum.

unvote
vote cdog

LLD flips SK so there wasn't even bussing there,

Relevant post:.

What is with our status?

Is there any possibility that we have death millers?

Cdog is scum for the way he posts. He's OMGUSING me because I'm voting him. He doesn't try to defend. Just get people off his wagon.

If you want to know about my "OMGUS" then go back and read my posts... Not worth getting into a huge quote wall.

This can't be Mylo.

We lynched correctly one day.
We should have another mislynch at hand.

Glass shoots up the scum list for saying no lynch and wins a

vote glass

Assuming 3 scum it is 5/3. Lynch wrong: 4/3 going into night. Night kill goes through 3/3. However, (Nopoint had better fucking read this) I highly doubt that there is in fact a 3 scum setup. Lynching "right" and lynching scum are differnt things.


Conclusion Vezo is scummy as hell. I want to keep my vote on glass until it becomes apparent that his wagon is dead.

[CooLDoG]

comma needs to be after conclusion. My bad.

[CooLDoG]

^so we are now going to use silly meta arguments to defend our partner? Sounds like fun. Just because the player has acted scummy before and flipped town DOES NOT mean he isn't scum right now. Link me to a game where using meta alone (which is the argument you are using) has lynched scum.... Stop defending vezok and start scum hunting.

[CooLDoG]

Link to a game where you have used only meta to find scum, or prove that someone was in fact town. Meta alone.

unvote, vote: vezo

[CooLDoG]

Link to a game where you have used only meta to find scum, or prove that someone was in fact town. Meta alone.

In cold war mafia I correctly figured out furc was town via meta, highlighted in post 361.

Okay lets look at that meta case then:

Please describe his town and scum metas (as you see them) and why you feel this game is the town and not scum. Bonus points for links to games you feel particularly back up your opinion.

If I could describe the the difference between his scum and town play in one word it would be "proactive".
As town he seems to be more active, seems to more actively participate in scum hunting and questioning, has larger posts and generally seems to be more involved in the game. He also is more likely to claim that someone is town in his eyes.

As scum his posts are shorter, he seems to throw out a lot more one liners that don't really push things forward but rather comment mildly on what is going on, he generally goes after softer targets, like inactives, or pursues weak cases that he doesn't bother explaining all that well. He also is more likely to claim someone is scum in his eyes.

All of those aren't really meta. They are common scum tells. Not being proactive is a major scum. Being active and pushing your reads is one of the best town tells I have found over my short mafia career. And above all else, defnedong someone with just meta does not excuse scummy play. If he plays scummy he is in fact scummy. Regardless of other games. That's my opinion. My vote stays on vezok, glass is also an A+ lynch.

@LC, read my case and vote for vezo or glass.

[CooLDoG]

So you are defending a scummy player with meta, while voting for someone who is voting for (who you admit to be) a scummy player. Sounds like textbook pro-town behavior. Good job, keep it up.

[CooLDoG]

NO MORE LURKING.

START POSTING PEOPLE.

Agree,

mod: get some prods out plz

[CooLDoG]

I don't think nopoint is scum .

Cdog looks worse than before

unvote
vote Cdog

Wow. This post just blows my mind. Just wow. Not even attempting to defend. Not even trying to explain his reasons. Not even hiding his blatant omgus. This has to be the best post of all time.

@every one who is defending vezok, Can you think of any reason except for meta that this guy shouldn't be lynched? I mean if we are going to go out on a limb and defend this guy at least have a half-assed reason. And above that, if vezok is playing scummy why shouldn't we lynch him? Do you really think he has contributed to the town? Do you really think he will contribute anything to the game? The answer to that is no.

[CooLDoG]

^surye hasn't thrown his vote around on numerous wagons. Surye hasn't omgused. But, the again, surye has posted much at all. In my opinion vezok is the more scummy. However, surye has lurked more...

[CooLDoG]

@umbridge, My number two choce is glass. No body wants to lynch glass "because he not scummy....". Then I move onto my next read "Vezok's meta is nullifies your perfectly legitimate arguments. Don't lynch my buddy". So if the vezok wagon fizzles out I would be more then willing to vote for surye, or TA. Ta is bring in a bunch of meta bullshit to get vezo off the hook.

@umbridge, Lets be honest, you aren't supporting the vezo lynch. Which lynches can you support?
@ta, same.
@vezo, you think he's scummy then vote him. Why are you just posting that? You aparently think I'm more scummy. Tell me why I'm scummy. No "He doesn't know my meta" bullshit, kthx.

[CooLDoG]

I think it's a case of fos buddy vote townie. In this case Cdog being the townie and glass the buddy. Maybe Surye but I'm not sure.

I missed this. If you think I am the "townie" why are you still voting me?

[CooLDoG]

Which lynches can you support?

I seriously need to reread this game. A lot of the players are blurring together in my mind. I'll have a clearer view of things once I buckle down and get to work.

Translation: I fine with lynching anybody, but not those two because they are my scum buds. Don't lynch anybody until I make sure that they aren't thaaaat town so I don't look bad.

Also, are you saying that at this point in time you have absolutely no scum reads? Lot of help you are for the town.

Sick and tired of umbridges non-committal I don't want to lynch specific people attitude. I know I said I would be willing to lynch surey (in fact I still am), but Umbridge's recent play is pathetic.

unvote, vote: umbridge

Come up with those reads...

[CooLDoG]

^are you voting for Umbridge? Mod needs to make more vote counts.

[CooLDoG]

^well, for one thing you aren't pushing any of your reads. You are basically just dissenting without providing an alternative, just like umbridge. "Don't lynch him because of meta.", "I had a null read on that guy.", "Mumble about how x is actually pushing read (no vote)" , "We don't want to lynch him. Come on guys, surey is just as bad. Don't lynch my scum bud.".

@Nopoint, yeah if hatevoteing is a scum tell I'm guilty of it. I'm voting umbridge specifically because he never expresses who he wants to lynch, much like TA up there (although a few times TA has said that he would be willing to lynch me). Look at his answer to my question about "which lynch can you support?":

Which lynches can you support?

I seriously need to reread this game. A lot of the players are blurring together in my mind. I'll have a clearer view of things once I buckle down and get to work.

Translation: "Ohhh god no, don't ask me that. I don't have any scum reads n this game because I was never really looking for them. Let me go check who looks too town to lynch." Don't tell me that midway through d-3 after to failed wagons you have no fucking reads.

@Nopoint, vote for umbridge. He has been doing the exact same thing as TA except for worse. Lets get some pressure votes on him so that he actually contributes in stead of simply active lurking and saying that every lynch is bad. Also how did he know that there are only two scum? Look back around the start of d-3, was that a slip?

[CooLDoG]

Here is the post about no way there is 3 scum teams.

http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Strongman

Since IS was killed with me jailkeeping him, there can only be 4 possibilities:

a) IS was killed by a strongman.
b) I was roleblocked.
c) I'm lying scum.
d) The mod is a bastard.

I think the mod said something about my JK having a chance to fail in the PM, so d) is entirely possible.

I am a VT as well. That leaves us with 3 confirmed VTs and 3 VT claims. If nobody's lying, there's no way that there's 3 scum. Town would need some heavy PRs to beat 3 mafia and an SK.

@MOD, post a vote count or I will PM the back up mod tomorrow, Thank you.

[CooLDoG]

Umridge, how did you know there are 2 scum I have a link from a game that has sk three scum. Also, we are not all vanilla townies, I have a vote block and a roleblock. That's not a pure vanilla game...
I don't have much time right now (I usually do) so I can't refute all of your points, but let me say this, you need to show me all of your reads. You seem to know for a fact that there are two scum 1 sk and the rest are vt, who are on the scum team?

@LC, vote for umbridge, I can already see the potential of him cracking under pressure.

@ninja vezo, nice reasons there pal.

[CooLDoG]

I'm back. Now lets get into this. Wall warning. This time there will be NO summary at the end (sorry vezo/surye, you are gonna have to read it this time )

Which lynches can you support?

I seriously need to reread this game. A lot of the players are blurring together in my mind. I'll have a clearer view of things once I buckle down and get to work.

Translation: I fine with lynching anybody,

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! but not those two because they are my scum buds. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't lynch anybody until I make sure that they aren't thaaaat town so I don't look bad.

Also, are you saying that at this point in time you have absolutely no scum reads? Lot of help you are for the town.

Sick and tired of umbridges non-committal I don't want to lynch specific people attitude. I know I said I would be willing to lynch surey (in fact I still am), but Umbridge's recent play is pathetic.

unvote, vote: umbridge

Come up with those reads...

MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

AND HOW WOULD YOU KNOW THERE ARE THREE SCUM??????????????

THREE SCUM & SK AGAINST ALL VANILLA TOWNIES?

SEEMS PRETTY UNLIKELY TO ME.

SCUM CAUGHT.

Link goes here: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=17498 This is actually a mini normal that just ended recently (a mini normal, hear that? NORMAL, not themed.) Three mafia (two goons, one roleblocker). 1 sk. A jailkeeper, a watcher and a tracker. Both you and I supposedly have jailkeeping abilities. That's equivalent to two doc saves, or two role blocks. Don't tell me that's not balanced. I also always assume three scum (read back to the start of this day. Read back to when we started number crunching stuff in day1. Always assume three scum.)

YES MORE UMBRAGE VOTES

He was pushing the hell out of me for being scum with his bs arguments and as soon as I call him out on them he completely ignores it and instead gets off me, probably hoping that I would wonder back onto cooldog after he got off of me. Not a chance in hell I am letting him off the hook that easily. I AM STILL WAITING ON WHAT THIS LIE WAS, IDC IF YOU THINK I AM TOWN, I WANT A RESPONSE.

If I was scum who wanted you lynched I would've gotten you lynched. Yes, my arguments were bullshit. I wanted a clearer read on you, and I got it.

I'm voting umbridge specifically because he never expresses who he wants to lynch

I believe the appropriate response in this kind of situation is LOLWUT?

Day 1 and Day 2 I was strongly committed to my wagons. I pushed for my scumreads and got them lynched. I don't display the same behaviour today and suddenly I'm scum?

Both of witch flipped non-scum (weak, yet pertinent). And yes having no reads on day-3 is very very scummy. Have you run out of marginally scummy people to lynch? Don't tell me that you don't have any scum reads at d-3... fence sitting is always a scum tell.

With vezok? If I was scum with vezok and somebody else, I forget who else you're saying my buddy is, but whatever, why wouldn't I sacrifice vezok? If I have two buddies, we're in lylo.

So you are going to gain monster town credit for lynching a lurker on d-3? You could quite possibly be keeping vezok around to lynch him tomorrow when it really is lylo, remember how you mystically plucked out a 2-man scum team from thin air? Also, assuming you have a two man scum team (sense you are sooo sure about it...) if vezok is scum then you will be down to one man, a 1/5. Not looking good for you now is it?

I kill vezok today, gain a ton of towncred, win tomorrow. Or, I could've gotten you lynched, or Glass lynched. I can't possibly be buddies with all of you, now can I? This is why my former indecision is a null tell.

If I'm correct it would be a 2/4 tomorrow. So at some point you are going to have to go on one of those bandwagons that you out right refuse to join.

And guess what? Indecision in lylo is A TOWN TELL. It's SCUM that want to rush ahead and lynch someone. And that's you, CooLDoG. First Glass, then vezok, now me. And yet, you state you believe today is lylo. THIS IS NOT THE BEHAVIOUR OF A TOWNIE.

How is this lylo? You yourself said that we have 2-man scum teams. How can you be wrong? The setup would be so unbalanced, like this other mini-normal... http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=17276 holy shit it had 4 mafia and now town pr, and the town still won. Show me proof that this isn't lylo and that you are right about 2 man scum teams.

I'm really disappointed. First LLD, now CooLDoG.

All my favourite

people in this game are turning out to be evil scum I must kill.

VOTE: CooLDoG

Wow, this player list must really be bad if I'm one of your favorates .

Post number two...

i understand the fact that cooldog may have been flinging mud at vezok to see what sticks, but i dont understand, umbrage, how you changed your stance on vezok so staunchly from saying that his play is so different from what you usually see(as town), to his play being the same thing he does is suspect.

Total gut instinct. I thought vezok was scummy for jumping on the CD wagon, then I got distracted with Glass, and when I looked at him again there was a wagon on him. Something about that seemed off, it was too easy. It was a total gut reaction that made me back off vezok, and it ended up catching scum.

SO you are basing a players scumminess based off of who is on his or her wagon alone? Because that's what your read is, "Wagon built up fast with slightly town to slightly scummy reads, ohh man, vezok has got to be town for sure."

Can we come to some sort of consensus here guys?

CooLDoG is scum. Only scum would push so hard for a lynch all day. Especially since he slipped and revealed this was lylo. Regardless of your stance on the lylo debate, CD thinks today is lylo, so we're going under the assumption that it is lylo/mylo for this post.

SO pushing hard for a lynch is a scum tell now, lets see, you did that here, here, here, and here. That last one was in "lylo"

First he tried getting a wagon on Glass, but abandoned that idea when I jumped off. Knowing that thus far, the wagon I'm on is the wagon that goes through to completion, he attacked vezok, my primary suspect. But that didn't work either, I changed my mind on vezok. Once he realized I wasn't going to push a lynch anytime soon, he decided that the only quicklynch he could get was my own.

As long as I pushed on Glass and vezok, I was useful to him, but when I said I had no good scumreads, suddenly I'm a suspect.

Your damn right about one thing, the glass and vezok lynch ain't going anywhere. That's partly because of non-commital people like you. Get a list of reads and vote for them, no wishy washy shit like you pulled on vezok back there.

Why are there two scum and not three? Answer me that. Show me statistics that shows that this setup is unbalanced with 3 scums, an sk, and 2 JKs (and possibly more due to this fucked-up mechanic).

That is all have a nice day.

I finally got url tags to work! woop woop!

@mod, I'm pretty sure I got all the tags right on the above. If something screws up (it shouldn't) then be ready to fix it...

[CooLDoG]

You guys already know what I am. I'm a vote blocking jail keeper. Now getting on to Umridge's posts.

[CooLDoG]

Link goes here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=17498 This is actually a mini normal that just ended recently (a mini normal, hear that? NORMAL, not themed.) Three mafia (two goons, one roleblocker). 1 sk. A jailkeeper, a watcher and a tracker. Both you and I supposedly have jailkeeping abilities. That's equivalent to two doc saves, or two role blocks. Don't tell me that's not balanced. I also always assume three scum (read back to the start of this day. Read back to when we started number crunching stuff in day1. Always assume three scum.)

No.

A jailkeeper, a watcher, and a tracker together is a REALLY fucking powerful combo. We only have fucking VTs that OCCASIONALLY and PUBLICALLY gain ONE-SHOT abilities that can FAIL. There is no comparison.[/qupte]
And three jks aren't? Remember IS said he got jk role too. He got up to the same "status" as both of us. That's thee fucking doctors.

But this is all beside the point. I've GIVEN my reasoning as to why there are likely two scum. You didn't say "hey, there could be 3 scum". You said I had 2 buddies. That's not speculation, that's scum knowledge. You say I'm wrong in assuming 2 scum, but you assume there are 3 scum.

Interprite how you will. All that I'm saying is that we could be dealing with a possible mylo situation here. I said that at the start of the day. How you were able to convince the town otherwise is beyond me.

[quote"umbridge"]Therefore, either you have knowledge that there's 3 scum, or you're full of shit. Which is it?

The latter . I'm just saying that this could possibly be mylo, and with you pushing so hard for a 2-man scum team it would be a fucking good fit for you to have this not at mylo.

Both of witch flipped non-scum (weak, yet pertinent). And yes having no reads on day-3 is very very scummy. Have you run out of marginally scummy people to lynch? Don't tell me that you don't have any scum reads at d-3... fence sitting is always a scum tell.

HAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHA

OK, never mind my last question, you're clearly full of shit.

1) If you're right, and there's 3 scum left, then today is mylo.

2) In mylo, you either no-lynch, or you be really REALLY fucking sure of your lynch choice.

3) Therefore, it is pro-town to be careful about lynches today, following YOUR OWN DAMN LOGIC.

Careful =/= to fince setting not having reads. You always come into a day having reads. Not having those reads means you are ridiculously bad (you aren't) or that you are contemplating who you can get away with lynching. It has nothing to do with mylo because you still think there are 2-man scum teams at this point. So you have no reads in a non-lylo situation, explain.

I challenge you to get ONE experienced mafia player to say that indecisiveness or fence-sitting is always anti-town. I challenge you to get ONE experienced mafia player to say that taking your time in mylo is a bad thing.

I may not be able to find one who will agree in every case, but I will be able to find a whole bunch who will say going into day-3 (lylo or not) you should have at least 1 scum read.

So you are going to gain monster town credit for lynching a lurker on d-3? You could quite possibly be keeping vezok around to lynch him tomorrow when it really is lylo, remember how you mystically plucked out a 2-man scum team from thin air? Also, assuming you have a two man scum team (sense you are sooo sure about it...) if vezok is scum then you will be down to one man, a 1/5. Not looking good for you now is it?

So now me being scum only makes sense if there's a 2-man scumteam? Even though you're SOOO SURE there's a 3-man scumteam?

you are misunderstanding my point about the three man scum team. The three man scum team is a possibility which you refuse to consider, you always pass it off as being unbalanced and other set-up wifom bullshit. I'm just concerned that this could be a mylo situation. Natuarly you persuaded all of the town (including me for a time) that there was a two man scum team. All that I'm saying is don't count out there being a three man scum team and this being mylo. Most likly there is a two man scum team, but you have to be prudent. And someone convincing the town in a possible mylo situation (and avidly pushing) a 2-man scum team idea reeks of scum. You yourself said to be cautious in a lylo situation, why don't you assume the worst?

[quote="umbridge"OK, let's say vezok and I are scum. Why didn't I try and get you lynched earlier? Why didn't I keep pushing on Glass? That lynch was all set when I backed off. Why would I do that?

Congratulations, you just buried yourself. Good game.[/quote]
Because I pushed hard for a correct lynch on d-2. LLD was such an easy target for scum. And d-1 was full of scum shit with the occult lynch. You simply didn't have the time.

If I'm correct it would be a 2/4 tomorrow. So at some point you are going to have to go on one of those bandwagons that you out right refuse to join.

And now he desperately tries to misrep in order to save himself. Quote me refusing to join any wagon today Mr. Big Mouth. (HINT: this is going to be the part of the post CooLDoG doesn't respond to.)

I'm afraid I am going to find one. Very quickly actually...
Other posts:

Admittedly, I haven't played with vezok where he's been scum, but ThAdmiral's scum meta on him sounds a hell of a lot like what his town meta has been from my experience with him.

I don't really see any reason to lynch vezok over Surye.

@ Everyone on vezokpiraka: Your arguments against vezok are things vezok always does. Sure, you can make the argument that that isn't an excuse, I'm with you on that. But it's still not a substitute for scumhunting.

Basically, you have a bunch of nulltells. Now, assuming every other player is null for you, then sure, lynch vezok because he's not valuable to the town and is next to impossible to read as scum anyway. I don't have a problem with that line of reasoning. What I don't like is how you're pushing vezok while ignoring everyone else. Why are you pushing a case full of nulltells? Is there nobody else in the game that you have suspicion on?

Today, more than anything, we need content. A lot of it. And that means scumhunting. Arguing back and forth. Vezok isn't going to contribute to that no matter how much you push him. Sure, he could flip scum, but he could also flip town, and either way we'd be right back where we started today. He's an easy cop-out lynch, and pushing for it is scummy as hell.

Again, I'm not opposed to a vezok lynch today. I'm opposed to his lynch being our first choice.

...Continuing on...

How is this lylo? You yourself said that we have 2-man scum teams. How can you be wrong? The setup would be so unbalanced, like this other mini-normal... viewtopic.php?f=2&t=17276 holy shit it had 4 mafia and now town pr, and the town still won. Show me proof that this isn't lylo and that you are right about 2 man scum teams.

Yeah, at first I thought it was a 2-man mafia team, but you're the scum, so you'd be the one to know.

SO you are basing a players scumminess based off of who is on his or her wagon alone? Because that's what your read is, "Wagon built up fast with slightly town to slightly scummy reads, ohh man, vezok has got to be town for sure."

As I said, it was a total gut instinct, which turned out to be the right move.

Nope its not total gut quote is here:

Total gut instinct.

I thought vezok was scummy for jumping on the CD wagon

, then I got distracted with Glass, and when

I looked at him again there was a wagon on him. Something about that seemed off, it was too easy.

It was a total gut reaction that made me back off vezok, and it ended up catching scum.

You say this is gut, but the italics show that there is more going on there. You actually have reasons, you just aren't willing to fully display thim. Atleast that's the read I'm getting.

SO pushing hard for a lynch is a scum tell now, lets see, you did that here, here, here, and here. That last one was in "lylo"

OH, SO NOW I'M PUSHING HARD FOR LYNCHES, AM I? I THOUGHT I WAS FENCE-SITTING. MAKE UP YOUR MIND, SCUM.

Yeah you push hard for two lynches and then you stop doing anything on d-3 no mylo. You don't have any reads after two full days of content and you refuse to jump on a wagon in non-mylo. THAT'S fince setting. Especially after you pushed hard for two non-scum lynches. That action you yourself said was scummy.

Your damn right about one thing, the glass and vezok lynch ain't going anywhere. That's partly because of non-commital people like you. Get a list of reads and vote for them, no wishy washy shit like you pulled on vezok back there.

What is this I don't even.

Simply that the vezok and glass wagon stopped. Nothing moved. No body wanted to even add pressure to them. SOme of those people are glass vezok and you....

Why are there two scum and not three? Answer me that. Show me statistics that shows that this setup is unbalanced with 3 scums, an sk, and 2 JKs (and possibly more due to this fucked-up mechanic).

And this is called

distraction

. Here, CooLDoG realizes that he slipped up and revealed he knew how many scum there were. So he tries to cover it up by pretending I said there were definitely 2 scum. Of course, if I really did slip up like that, CooLDoG would've pointed it out a long time ago instead of trying to sic me on Glass. He even tries to goad me into saying that there are 2 scum. Sadly, I'm not going to be tricked. And CooLDoG is about to learn that you can't use scumtells in a case retroactively without showing you're scum yourself.

Link goes here:

My point stands then. There's no way there are 3 mafia and an SK against all VTs.

I'm going to ISO LC, see if I still find her scummy with LLD flipping SK.

Ohh, ohh shit. You just said there aren't three scum. Well we assume you are saying 2 scum. No?

All in all I don't care if I get lynched. Umbridge played an A+ scum game. Good job guys. Maybe there are only 2 scum and you guys will get lucky. Or you guys will have to lynch umbridge tomorrow and then glass or vezok.

[CooLDoG]

I'm curious about the relevance pf the statuses to surye's response.

[CooLDoG]

Again, today I don't have as much time as I would like (in the morning)...


@LLD,UMbridge

Is this not mylo?

vote: glass

Blatantly ignoring the LLD wagon.

This was my first post of d-3. The fifth post of d-3 to be exact. Since we know the tototal number of players it can be easily derived from the above quote that I thought there were two scum teams.

@mod, this weekend I will be v/la

[CooLDoG]

Sorry 2 scum teams means 2 man scum team. Not two 2 man scum teams...

Lets get to umbridge's most recent post before we go into the long one.

How else could it be mylo? Answer that directly.

Now off to the big post.... What a chore.

[CooLDoG]

I'm just saying that this could possibly be mylo, and with you pushing so hard for a 2-man scum team it would be a fucking good fit for you to have this not at mylo.

Which is a valid point. But it's one you should've brought up when I FIRST SAID there were 2 scum. You didn't. You apparently thought it good that myself and the rest of the town think there were 2 scum. Why?

I never realized the magnitude of your statement until my attention was drawn to your lack of commitment in d-3. I had never really pondered the implications of you saying there are 2 scum teams.

Careful =/= to fince setting not having reads. You always come into a day having reads. Not having those reads means you are ridiculously bad (you aren't) or that you are contemplating who you can get away with lynching. It has nothing to do with mylo because you still think there are 2-man scum teams at this point. So you have no reads in a non-lylo situation, explain.

How the hell do you think I didn't come in with any reads? I started off with Glass as scum, you as town, and vezok as scum. I acted on those reads. Over time I lost faith in my wagons, and decided to reexamine the game. THAT IS CALLED BEING CAREFUL. THAT IS CALLED SCUMHUNTING. THAT IS A GOOD THING TO DO IN MYLO.

How is this mylo? You yourself said that there are 2 man scum teams. So you aren't be cautious in mylo, you are just not having reads on d-3. Even when your lynch wagon fails you should always have a fall back.

I may not be able to find one who will agree in every case, but I will be able to find a whole bunch who will say going into day-3 (lylo or not) you should have at least 1 scum read.

See above.

Again, how can you only have two lynches that you would be willing to support in d-3 non lylo/mylo?????????????????????

you are misunderstanding my point about the three man scum team. The three man scum team is a possibility which you refuse to consider, you always pass it off as being unbalanced and other set-up wifom bullshit. I'm just concerned that this could be a mylo situation. Natuarly you persuaded all of the town (including me for a time) that there was a two man scum team. All that I'm saying is don't count out there being a three man scum team and this being mylo. Most likly there is a two man scum team, but you have to be prudent. And someone convincing the town in a possible mylo situation (and avidly pushing) a 2-man scum team idea reeks of scum. You yourself said to be cautious in a lylo situation, why don't you assume the worst?

OBVIOUSLY I considered a 3-man scumteam, otherwise I wouldn't have deducted that there was a 2-man scumteam.

See linked games in previous post. We had potentially three or more doctors in this set-up. Two man scum team and sk isn't balanced with three doc. But I forgot, the scum have a role blocker... you.

But this is still a distraction. You NEVER said "maybe there's 3 scum", you said "Umbrage has 2 scumbuddies". THERE'S A BIG DIFFERENCE. One is trying to be helpful to the town, the other is a scumslip.

If I really was pushing a 2-man team so hard, then why didn't you say anything earlier? Seems like you only became concerned when I started attacking you.

No, I only started being concerned with this when I started looking at you d-3 play. Then when I started reflecting on your past statements (specifically early in d-3) I found that you as scum could benefit greatly by convencing the town that we have a two man scum team.

Because I pushed hard for a correct lynch on d-2. LLD was such an easy target for scum. And d-1 was full of scum shit with the occult lynch. You simply didn't have the time.

Tee-hee. Now you're saying I had nothing to do with the LLD lynch? I think you should try reading the thread again.

Ohh yeah, you just hopped on the easy lynch wagon a threw out generic points. Any average scum play could have easily hopped on that wagon like you did. But the point remains that those two lynches were easy to get onto and both flipped non-scum.

Admittedly, I haven't played with vezok where he's been scum, but ThAdmiral's scum meta on him sounds a hell of a lot like what his town meta has been from my experience with him.

Disagreeing with a meta read =/= refusal to lynch, sad to say.

I don't see your vote on that there wagon....

I don't really see any reason to lynch vezok over Surye.

Does that say I refuse to lynch vezok? Not in the slightest.

Why no vote then? If you supported the lynch why aren't you arguing for it? Why aren't you voting for vezok?

@ Everyone on vezokpiraka: Your arguments against vezok are things vezok always does. Sure, you can make the argument that that isn't an excuse, I'm with you on that. But it's still not a substitute for scumhunting.

Basically, you have a bunch of nulltells. Now, assuming every other player is null for you, then sure, lynch vezok because he's not valuable to the town and is next to impossible to read as scum anyway. I don't have a problem with that line of reasoning. What I don't like is how you're pushing vezok while ignoring everyone else. Why are you pushing a case full of nulltells? Is there nobody else in the game that you have suspicion on?

Today, more than anything, we need content. A lot of it. And that means scumhunting. Arguing back and forth. Vezok isn't going to contribute to that no matter how much you push him. Sure, he could flip scum, but he could also flip town, and either way we'd be right back where we started today. He's an easy cop-out lynch, and pushing for it is scummy as hell.

Again, I'm not opposed to a vezok lynch today. I'm opposed to his lynch being our first choice.

Note the bolded, and try reading properly before you embarrass yourself again.

At this point you have no reads. You are say, "ohh we could lynch vezok, but can I get away with it? Ahh somebody else will get easier to lynch and I'll hop on that later. I won't commit to anything, I'll just sit back in my lawn chair and have a nice cold drink while all the others are scum hunting. Yeah, that will work out nicely." And exactly that happened. An easy lynch poped up, and boom you are right on it now. Good game scum, you played this marvelously.

You say this is gut, but the italics show that there is more going on there. You actually have reasons, you just aren't willing to fully display thim. Atleast that's the read I'm getting.

I had my reasons for attacking vezok. Jumping OFF his wagon was gut.

so you never really had a definitive reason for hopping off the vezok wagon. Again, shakey reads on d-3 people. This doesn't make sense. How can an expierenced player like umbridge not have any good reads on d-3 no mylo. For a large portion of the day he doesn't even have a vote onj anybody.

Yeah you push hard for two lynches and then you stop doing anything on d-3 no mylo. You don't have any reads after two full days of content and you refuse to jump on a wagon in non-mylo. THAT'S fince setting. Especially after you pushed hard for two non-scum lynches. That action you yourself said was scummy.

In what universe does "push hard for two days then do nothing" make sense as a scum tactic?

When you run out of easy targets. Its not a matter of deciding to do it. You just found yourself off-balance and forgot to push your "reads". Any half-assed scum player could spit out shit on occult and LLD for years. But when it was show time, you ran out of steam...

Simply that the vezok and glass wagon stopped. Nothing moved. No body wanted to even add pressure to them. Some of those people are glass vezok and you....

Ah, OK. Wait... uh, nope, still have no idea what you're saying here.

Ohh, ohh shit. You just said there aren't three scum. Well we assume you are saying 2 scum. No?

I... I just don't understand... what does it all mean???

Basically you are, in that quote, saying that there are in fact 2 scum. Simply put you got the town fooled into two man scum team and when one person descents you find grounds for an easy lynch. Great job masterful play if I do say so myself. I should nominate you for a scummy after this game.

ONLY 12 SIMILIES WHAT THE FUCK?

[CooLDoG]

What is there to gain from the statuses?
And what lynch did umbridge push after he hopped off of vezok?

[CooLDoG]

Well, I am ready to hammer cooldog whenever vordiark gets around to updating the status.

go ahead, I won't be able to answer Umbridge's post until moday. There are quite of few things wrong with that. A lot of things actually. I want to get to them, but I simply don't have the time today. I'm lucky I can post.

I will get to this though

@umbrage, why do you think cooldog hasn't self hammered?

Wants to let a buddy do it for the towncred?

.
So I let the town discuss for 1-2 days longer then they would have got if I self hammered. And probably 2 more if People are willing to hold out for sury. So my elaborate plan will a low for one of my buddies o hammer me 5 days after I hit l-1 to gain massive town credit. Sounds like one helluva plan. I should have thought of that before I post all of that. It would have saved me a lot of time.

I glazed over umbridge's post and I wanted to ask about one significant part.

Umbridge, you said you should never have a fall back. Why did you vote for two people today in quick succession once a wagon failed. Are you also saying that you should only have 1 scum read. And if you happen to have two you should never lynch your number two man, even if your number one has no support? Some of the most powerful tells are buddy tells (my opinion), and only focusing on one man, and only pressuring one man severely limits your ability to scum hunt. I think the correct term for your style of play is tunnel vision.

All I can say for now.