Mini 1195: The Beehive Mystery (GAME OVER)

[Beck]

First, I must be scum lol

[Beck]

I'm a hydra with myself

I suffer from multiple personality disorder

[Beck]

So what are the odds of my first 2 games on site, I get lynched day 1?

Looking good

[Beck]

Nope, it's something done on another site where I play

First poster usually posts

First person on the list must be scum, vote that person

Well I'm first on the list so I changed it around. But by all means vote me, rvs is stupid anyway

[Beck]

Jesters aren't allowed in normal games. Beck is scum, and Yank is his partner.

You are better player than this, I'm disappointed in you subs

[Beck]

You are better player than this, I'm disappointed in you subs

Have we played together?

This is my 2nd game on site so no but if you have been playing here since 2008, so I'm taking an assumption you are a good player

[Beck]

I disagree about the statement that town wouldn't joke about that cause they don't want to cast suspicion on themselves.

There is plenty of reasons to make a comment like that as town, if you can't think of any fair enough, but i sure can.

[Beck]

There is plenty of reasons to make a comment like that as town, if you can't think of any fair enough, but i sure can.

so you had planned to do it?

I was fortunate enough to be the the first poster so I used the thing that we use at the other site.

I typically don't plan out my thoughts before I post but I'm not afraid to speak my mind so if I say something that seems scummy, I'll deal with it.

But that being said, the reactions it generated will prove to be useful.

[Beck]

Expand? Ok the reactions to my comment will be useful as the game progresses. Right now it's still a tad early to get a firm read but I have people I'm watching.

P. Edit @ subs, if that's true than yeah I made a horrible assumption.

[Beck]

you should really have more to say than that. Opinion on beck's pots for example.

still trying to get a read on him. hes a noob, so it mayve been an innocent mistake, although #28 makes me suspect he came here from EM.
@Beck the "other site" you were referring to please?
@confid holding my vote is scummy... why? pretty sure that post was a reaction test, but not 100%. please explain the logic behind voting me.

http://www.glbwiki.com/index.php?title= ... afia_Forum

[Beck]

As I said, it was weird and anti-town, and it feels to me he was/is trying to get lynched. I won't vote on that alone, but it's something to watch.

why do you interpret it as an attempt to get lynched and not an attempt at humor

is humor not allowed on mafiascum? cause if that is the case I better leave now

[Beck]

UNVOTE: Ivan the Pleasant

I’m not sure about the suspicion on Yank yet. I don’t see much suspicion at the moment on yank, he wasnt the only one to have suspicion on Beck. He had suspicion, his 'at the same time' quote, seemed to me more as a precaution as I to felt it was a bit early to be jumping onto beck as we had to be careful so I didn’t see much wrong about it.

Also Ivan, you said 'we aren't in to your unwarranted attempt to defend someone in rvs' to yank. I think his defence on Beck was valid, as although it was early and in rvs there was some serious votes against Beck so I’m not certain on Yank suspicions.

I seriously don't understand anything you said in this post.

[Beck]

I personally don't like anything captain has been saying, he seems to be flailing a little bit.

The fact that it was pretty obvious RVS ended as soon as people reacted to my comment, he later claims it hadn't ended.

I also disagree about your comment about there not being a reason to not vote as town, I also don't like how you bring in these names of other mafia players to add credibility to that statement, because there is no way we can actually ask these people if they agree with that logic.

If you honestly believe that statement, you best find a game where these guys were town and essentially said it, right now I read it as a statement you are throwing out there to seem towny

Captain, your vote on Arco seems to make no sense at the moment but I do want to hear from him, right now i'm looking at this as a possible bussing attempt but we will see how the game progresses.

I also like the point that somebody made (can't remember who) that the jester comment definitely could have come from scum who knew I wasn't scum, and if that is the case that is one of the accidental benefits from making a statement like I did.

final note, Captain, people don't need votes on them to scum slip, there are other ways to get people to scum slip, there are other ways to scum hunt, just cause somebody isn't voting it doesn't mean they are automatically anti-town

you seem to be trying to hard to look like you are town by pointing all these things out that people at town should be doing.

Vote Captain

oh and just a note for the mod

MOD- I personally think all hydras need to out who their heads are, it's bad enough to be playing with ore than one, keeping it a secret just makes it worse

i'm running errands with the kids today, hopefully will be on later

oh and I am east coast time zone

[Beck]

@ ice in response to your attempt to clarify a point i made about spoon and rvs, spoon's exact words were

[quote=]It's RVS and there is nothing more useless than an unused vote. You don't need a solid scumread yet. In fact, not voting is anti-town.[/quote]

He was talking to acro but he does say it is RVS, which in ny opinion ended right when Ivan said his vote was serious. Once soneone claims their vote is serious, rvs is over.

Re-reading spoon again, I still like him for scum

I don't like people who make lists of who is town/null/scum also, but that was a personal preference

I still don't like Yank for the reason greymarble pointed out but I need to re-read everything that has been posted. It won't be tonight, I'm off to bed.

Greymarble needs to participate more, his only contribution has been 1 post, although it was a pretty dead on balls accurate one, it's not enough to get people to follow him on a yank wagon.

[Beck]

@ acro, who do you think is bussing who?

[Beck]

@captain, can you find that comment by sleepy, the one where you say he says he will jump on the wagon if necessary

I'm also on a mobil device and just read the iso and didn't see that comment.

[Beck]

@sub, if somebody thinks somebody is VI, what is wrong with that person defending the VI from being lynched (going under the assumption that the VI = town read)

[Beck]

Isn't VI, by definition a town read?

[Beck]

No. Acro is in no way clear.

than I don't get your defense of him

[Beck]

ok I am reading back, and honestly the best lead we have right now is YankCane, I don't like the fact that he got 3 votes and than it stalled, and than 2 different people got 3 votes each on them after that (using my own VC, which could be off). It seems that Yank is the person that should be pressured right now, not Ivan and definitely not Acro.

Unvote, Vote: YankCane

that comment he made about my comment, as described by grey's one and only post is 100% accurate in my opinion. Why would somebody jump right to saying that a person is a jester and not just call them scum like everyone else did. This is a slip in my opinion, he knows I am not scum but I have done something that the rest of town thinks is so scummy, he really didn't know how to respond.

This would go with the statement I said earlier that scum doesn't need votes on them to scumslip, there are plenty of other ways to draw slips out.

[Beck]

Unvote, Vote: YankCane

Careful, Beck. You're about to end up on Yank's suspect list.

Oh noez! I better unvote than

[Beck]

unvote

vote yank

NOW this vote is serious

It may be the Sam Adams talking, but what Beck said was really weird and anti-town. At the same time, the lynch almost seems too obvious, a jester perhaps?

I've never seen a scummier post on page 1

- you call him

really

weird and anti-town
- you qualify it with an "at the same time", which is scummy in general, especially during rvs
- your "at the same time" makes no sense and sounds nervous as shit
- you are more interested in sounding evenhanded than in generating information.

no way this is coming from town

Do you still feel this way? If so, why are you not voting him?

It seems like once people started voting for him, you tried to distance from him.

Since this you have voted arco(easy target) and subs (makes no sense)

I almost never, ever get a town read on somebody day 1, thinking back to all my games I have ever played, I'm so skeptical of everyone, I can honestly say subs is the worst day 1 lynch when we have so obviously scummy in yank. His reaction to the presssure has been flailing.


Side note, once this game is over I'm suggesting that 1 hydra per game rule be implemented. 1 is bad enough but I think we have 3 this game, crazy insane to follow.

[Beck]

P.edit, I bolded that last part to make it stand out how he can make that comment but now has moved away from him.

[Beck]

This is where you vote Sleepykrew, and it implies the same thing. Your argument requires achro to be scum therefore you should be voting achro if you actually believe what you're saying. You aren't, therefore you don't.

Let me explain something about mafia, which anyone who has played more than 1 game should already know

If you suspect Player A and Player B to be scum, and Player B is defending Player A by calling him a VI and whatever else, you don't prove your theory by lynching player A, because player A could actually be town. You lynch Player B because he is the one actually defending somebody and you would learn more from his flip than you would from a flip of Player A

but this is all irrelevant, you need to go back to your 2nd serious vote of the game and vote Yank. We can argue over the Sleepy/Arco/subs love triangle day 2

[Beck]

...this is fucked up.

gonna take some time to think about what could be going on as far as the sleepy defense thing. i'll post tomorrow. if you want to see what he was directly referring to with the VI thing read this game from d3 on.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 23&t=17550

lol Sleepy, every post you made in that game you had a new vote, wtf

[Beck]

Acro, that is a horrible example anyway cause you were town and he was scum, if he was town also than maybe I would hold more stock in it and he defends you in that game also, granted you are outed as a doc already.

[Beck]

This is counter productive. Calling Achro a VI is making him pissed off and preventing rational discussion from taking place. Continue your argument about sleepykrew, but you don't need to insult people. When he's pissed off his play will be altered as evidenced by Captain Picard telling people to fuck off. That causes him to play with two goals in mind. 1) his win condition, and 2) defending his honor or some shit like that. If he has two goals in mind it will be more difficult to determine his alignment.

why did you ignore my question?

[Beck]

Beck seems to me to be trying to sit back and enjoy the show. He has contributed some though, and his lighthearted tone seems way to risky for a mafia or third party. I think he's probably town that needs to buckle down.

It's more of I am trying to not get confused by all these hydras posting from the hydra account and their real account, and this incredibly stupid love triangle of SK, Acro, and Subs

It was also the weekend and my time online was limited.

I have already said the best bet for town today is a Yank lynch.

Ivan said yank did something completely scummy and yet he isn't voting for him, instead he is voting for subs for the fact that he is voting SK instead of Acro.

this makes absolutely no sense to me.

I stand by my statement that Yank is the one deserving of pressure, and the Acro wagon seems like a counter wagon to distract from Yank.

Yank has done nothing useful
Yank is too concerned with how people think of him
Yank has fos'd 2 people (iirc) that have voted or FOS'd him first
plus his comment about me being a jester, instead of being scum is pretty damning as grey pointed out

I sure wish grey would post more, this pisses me off because his 1 and only post is going unnoticed cause he is not here.

[Beck]

@ sub, I need to throw Ivan in there now also since he kind of joined in the discussion

Right now based on gut reads, I think your posting makes more sense.

Based on experience, I honestly think the odds that one of acro and SK is scum, in all honestly I can't imagine both are but the way they sort of are defending each other makes no sense. SK is defending arco by saying he is a vi, arco is trying to show why SK is calling him a vi.

Arco comes off as the more innocent of the 2 because if somebody was defending a player, and that person was being attacked because of it, I could easily see a naive person defending him back.

Now I'm skeptical by nature, also been screwed over too many times in mafia games. The defense by SK doesn't make sense. I would never defend a person that I thought was a VI, in fact I'd probably try to get the VI lynched (as much as I hate policy lynches, I have sub conciously done this before)

This is why SK is on my list and I'd be fine with his lynch

Ivan, I'm being cautious of, him being a hydra(I think he is anyway) I have a harder time reading cause each head has their own opinion, I don't like him voting you subs because you are making much more sense than SK or Acro is ATM

I'm not ruling anyone out as 100% town right now but subs is clearly not the day 1 lynch.

It's Yank or SK

Yank because Ivan has not really mentioned yank since his earlier fos, and has tried to distance himself from that wagon.

I really hate lining up lynches, I try not to but if yank were to flip scum, Ivan would move to the top of my suspect list

If yank flipped town, well I would really be confused especially about Ivan.

[Beck]

@ acro

Is this a question directed at subs to answer or is it rhetorical?

"not completely useless. if im town and SK is maf, why would he defend me? if SK is town and im maf, why would i defend him? using this logic, it's extremely unlikely that we have opposing alignments. not impossable, but unlikely. "

I have my own opinion on this but not sure if you were looking for a specific response from him. I'll let him respond regardless.

[Beck]

reasons why I like Yank

It may be the Sam Adams talking, but what Beck said was really weird and anti-town. At the same time, the lynch almost seems too obvious, a jester perhaps?

the best way to explain why this comment is so bad is to summarize grey's post

TRANSLATION:
'BECK IS WEIRD AND ANTITOWN BUT I KNOW HE'S NOT SCUM. MUST BE A THIRD PARTY???'

with just 2 votes on him, Yank makes this comment

And to clarify, Yes, I think there is scum on the bandwagon that's forming on me right now. Until I see an actual case against me, I'm just seeing opportunistic scum buddies here.

seems to be a bit flaily to me, 2 votes isn't a wagon at all and to declare that scum is on his 2 person wagon, seems kind of ridiculous IMO.

Yank decides he doesn't like Ivan enough to return the favor and votes him back,

Ice decides to vote Yank, making the tally 3 (greymarble votes on page 2) and right after that vote, yank follows up with

Sigh. Well, not everyone on my bandwagon is opportunistic scum. I at least hoped the townies would be rational, but no one is seeing the writing on the wall. Can we at least get some discussion in so you guys don't go into day 2 still not wanting to lynch IVP or sub?

I read this statement as, Ice is town, also who was the opportustic scum anyway? none of the votes for him were done so in an opportunistic manner and he mentions nobody seeing the writing on the wall, but reading his ISO, he hasn't really explained a good reason to remove the votes from him.

this comment

At this point I'm just a little frazzled emotion-wise that IVP Has managed to create a bandwagon as a scum on me and actually go somewhere with it. I don't even want to be lynched, but if that's what it takes to realize he's opportunistic scum, then we probably don't have much hope as town anyways.

To me really makes me think that Yank is probably newbish when it comes to being mafia OR has never encountered a bus, the first time my mafia partner bussed me, I reacted almost exactly the same way when I was bussed for the first time, because I wasn't expecting it nor had I ever experienced it before. For a bus to work properly, it can't be planned. It has to be an ambush, if Ivan had stayed on yank for the remainder of Day 1, I probably would not have even had to keep my eye on him, but the fact that Ivan hoops off Yank's wagon because the other head finds Arco scummier.

why does the other head find Arco scummier?

Bah. Well, there goes that idea.

unvote vote Acronach

Your posts so far have been devoid of content.

Not putting a vote out is almost always antitown, especially in early D1.

And if you're the type of self-righteous/thickheaded/airheaded prick who refuses to vote without "good evidence" out of some misplaced notion of caution or integrity, you have to make up for the lost content by pressuring people in other ways, such as with questions.

It's really not brain surgery, unless you're scum.

And even then, it's a fairly standard procedure.

Do something.

Ivan later follows up with this clarification

Remember that there are two of us. We have separate suspicions and gut reactions. Currently I am questioning Yank while the other head is questioning Acronach.

but since that clarification, Ivan has not once mentioned Yank and when i questioned Ivan about his earlier suspicons of Yank, he posts something un-related and hasn't posted anything since.


Ivan is definitly on my suspect list, I think the 2 heads talked in their QT and decided this bus has gone on long enough, which is why they switched their vote to Arco. He got voted by Ivan on page 6, for not providing content, when acro had not posted anything since the middle of page 2, Ivan's vote on Acro, just happened to be the 4th vote.

These are rhetorical, but if Ivan wants to answer it, feel free.

Why vote for somebody for their lack of content when they haven't even made a post since the 2nd page and is unaware their wagon has now grown to 3 people. Why do you leave a wagon(yank wagon) where you are making really really good points about based on actual scum hunting, and leave it to be the 4th vote on a wagon that makes no sense? (perfect example of opportunistic scum that yank was trying to point out earlier)


I am fine with an Ivan lynch really I am, but Yank is the most guilty person here, I think Ivan's other head realized this bus attempt was going wrong or he didn't agree with it, so they decided to shift focus to somebody else.

The lynch that will teach us the most in my opinion is Yank, given the fact that as of right now he has the most votes on him, I see no reason why we just don't go through with this lynch.

[Beck]

Everyone is treating GreyMarble's post like the word of God.
It looks like a misrep to me.
But I need to look for something. If I don't find it, I'll vote Yank.

It's not just that post though, tbh yank never even addresses it, he stays focuses on Ivan.

He later indirectly refers to ice and grey as townies

[Beck]

You sure he never responded to it? I'll believe you.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Yank
Quite honestly, we'll learn a lot from this flip either way.

Re-reading, he does comment on it being a mis-rep but it's mixed in a and kind if hard to spot it, I did just notice it but he really doesn't get distracted by it and stays on the Ivan trail.

[Beck]

Again, I don't see what was so explicit about Ivan's case. It wasn't clarified to me until #36, before then it was just IVP And sub being suspicious of me for word choice. I don't even know if Greymarble's is a joke or not, but if not then that's the most incorrect interpretation I've ever seen. But hey, worse comes to worse and IVP, sub and Grey are leading the mislynch bandwagon and they die the following days, whatever it takes to win, I just don't see how they have actual cases past #36(which I defended myself against, but lo and behold, Marble ignored that post completely.)

This is the post where he mentions it.

Not even sure why he threw sub's name in there, sub wasn't even voting him.

[Beck]

that's the worst backpeddaling I've ever seen

"this lynch isn't going to work. Let's go spoon"

Confirm vote: SK

I was voting you before Yank. I don't want to lynch Yank now. Back to you.

How did you go from "we will learn alot from this flip either way" with a vote on yank

To changing back to spoon?

[Beck]

that's the worst backpeddaling I've ever seen

"this lynch isn't going to work. Let's go spoon"

Confirm vote: SK

I was voting you before Yank. I don't want to lynch Yank now. Back to you.

What changed in an hour?

[Beck]

if im town and SK is maf, why would he defend me?

buddying and whit-knighting are great reasons why SK would defend you

we still think Sleepy is scum and we have very strong town reads in ICE, beck and (to a lesser extent) subgenius

more reads later (maybe)

Missed this

1. I was quoting acro, just didn't use the quote tag cause I was on my phone
2. The original question from acro was directed at Subs, why did you answer it
For him?

[Beck]

nvm, reviewed his post. hes a shitty hydra if you ask me though. i still want him to claim who all the heads are.

We know one of them already

[Beck]

1. I was quoting acro, just didn't use the quote tag cause I was on my phone
2. The original question from acro was directed at Subs, why did you answer it
For him?

because that part of the post appealed to me and I felt I could answer it and explain SK's true motives

Why would you be trying to explain the motives of another player?

[Beck]

But that's why I asked acro if his question was rhetorical and said I was going to wait til subs responded, I had not even posted my opinions yet.

I was going to wait and see what subs had to say, you know, give his own perspective.

[Beck]

Anyway. Its almost prod time for grey, it's been almost 72 hours from his last post

Also yank showing up would be nice too

As would Ivan answering my question (s)

[Beck]

Holy shit, greymarble is a hydra too

4 hydras this game?

FML

[Beck]

4 hydras? wtf? lol

would be kinda funny though to see a 7 or 8 person hydra sometime XD

Actually It may only be 3, I thought there was another but can't recall

Ivan
Spoon
Grey
Any others?

And no, a multi hydra game would be horrible

[Beck]

The original question from acro was directed at Subs, why did you answer it For him?

because that part of the post appealed to me and I felt I could answer it and explain SK's true motives

Why would you be trying to explain the motives of another player?

This is a damn good question. Points to Beck. A related question is, what makes you think you know what SleepyKrew's 'true motives' are?

I don't know what SK's motives are and never claimed that I did.

[Beck]

4 hydras

where is the facepalm avatar?

[Beck]

because we think he's scum and scum tend to buddy

we wanted to bring up that possibility. We can't rely on other to bring up what our theories are

by we, are you referring to you and your other head?

[Beck]

We will not be claiming heads.

still waiting....

[Beck]

If he's not gonna claim heads, he's not gonna claim heads. Shut up and deal with it, there is no rule that says he has to just because you demand it. If you don't want to play with hidden hydras, find another game.

that isn't what I am waiting for, nice to pay attention.

I have asked him a multiple question relating to the game at hand, 1 is a mandatory and the others I said was optional.

he has made 2 posts since my original question and he hasn't responded, so before you come in here and act like you know what the fuck you are talking about, I suggest you just sit back and continue reading the thread and eventually you will get to the questions I asked.

[Beck]

To help ivan find it easier, here is the first question I asked him - He needs to answer this the best way he can. http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 3#p3163303

here are the others

These are rhetorical, but if Ivan wants to answer it, feel free.

Why vote for somebody for their lack of content when they haven't even made a post since the 2nd page and is unaware their wagon has now grown to 3 people.
Why do you leave a wagon(yank wagon) where you are making really really good points about based on actual scum hunting, and leave it to be the 4th vote on a wagon that makes no sense? (perfect example of opportunistic scum that yank was trying to point out earlier)

[Beck]

If he's not gonna claim heads, he's not gonna claim heads. Shut up and deal with it, there is no rule that says he has to just because you demand it. If you don't want to play with hidden hydras, find another game.

And I have been trying to discuss things with my other head before coming to any strong stance on anything. This has been going very slowly, so I voted CS for his fail. Also, note that that was a list of skimreads and gutreads, and I know better than to vote based on that. I have been rereading and gathering more evidence, since I have more time now than I did early on. Attacks will be coming soon, I guarantee it.

and reading my ISO, I really love how you of all called me out for sitting back watching the show when you have done nothing note worthy all game except replace yourself with a hydra of you and somebody else.

[Beck]

Okay, guys. You NEVER EVER answer questions directed at someone else, or try to explain their reasoning! The questions were directed at them for a reason, and if you give the 'right' answer, scum could just say 'what he said' instead of the flawed response they would have given, outing them as scum. Hence, you NEVER EVER ANSWER QUESTIONS DIRECTED AT SOMEONE ELSE!

VOTE: Captain Spoon

And yeah, this is a hydra, led by The Kool.

btw is this your only reason for voting spoon? Because as much as I hate the fact he has done this, this isn't enough of a reason to lynch somebody as I have seen town players do this before, even I have been guilty of doing this.

I await your catch-up posts and I hope you will see that Yank is most deserving of a lynch for day 1.

off to bed, man it's late

[Beck]

and this ladies and gentelman is where the plot thickens, it's obvious that the Ivan who posted on this page is archaebob, can I get an agreement on that?

if yes, than archaebob/ivan has said if it was up to him, his vote would be on Yank this entire time

I, for one, disagree vehemently with the subgenius vote that was made by the other head. If it were up to me, we would have been on Yank this entire time, which is what I thought we were doing...

if you agreed that Ivan/archae made the above content, than how do you explain this?

unvote vote Acronach

Your posts so far have been devoid of content.

Not putting a vote out is almost always antitown, especially in early D1.

And if you're the type of self-righteous/thickheaded/airheaded prick who

refuses

to vote without "good evidence" out of some misplaced notion of caution or integrity, you have to make up for the lost content by pressuring people in other ways, such as with questions.

It's really not brain surgery, unless you're scum.

And even then, it's a fairly standard procedure.

Do something.

[Beck]

p. edit - and he still has avoided my questions.

[Beck]

I switched to Yank because I thought he didn't mention GreyMarble. But he did, so back to Spoon.
Scum Lynch > Info Lynch

Why is spoon scum?

[Beck]

Reading through iso of SK a few things stand out

1. I don't like his first post where he asks for a vc for fear of doing something stupid, not sure why but it rubs me the wrong way
2. Later he says I'm a good lynch(more on this later) adds in Ivan to that list too
3. Declares somebody a VI and defends acro, I don't understand how anyone can defend a person if you don't know their allignment. If Arco is scum and SK is town, SK Has been defending scum. That is why defending people makes no sense. If arco truly is a VI, they typically ruin games so again, why defend him.
4. Pushing on spoon but I really don't see why, I can't find a good case that SK has made
5. He blindly follows my info, without even checking if I was right or not, yet earlier he says I'm a good lynch. Why would he blindly follow me?

General question to be answered by anyone

Why would somebody who is town, blindly follow anyone?

Isn't that sheeping?

Sheeping is a scum tell still right?

I swear to me, Ivan, SK, and Yank look like scum.

[Beck]

Because he flails, contradicts, and ad homs.

Links?

Also, I have been accused of flailing when I have been town
Adhom is never a reason to lynch
And not sure what contradictions he has made

[Beck]

I'm not buying it Ivan

The same head that voted for yank earlier this page is the same one who unvoted yank earlier and switched to acro

It's plain as day because of your log on problems.

So you basically just contradicted yourself in a huge way

I also ask that from this point on, each head needs to somehow identify who is posting, use something that doesn't expose who you are, that's fine but your hydra has been the most confusing one.

vote Ivan

I'll get yank later, Ivan lynch is a go

[Beck]

Well I don't know what the hell Archaebob is thinking, but if it makes you feel better voting Achro was my idea. I think he was probably under the impression that I would change it shortly afterwards.

Archae voted acro first under his real account
He later logs on as Ivan and reposts the same thing.

Earlier this page

Ivan votes yank, and 10 minutes later arche unvoted saying he wants to talk to his other head

Archebob switched to acro on his own
Archebob later says (under the Ivan account) he never wanted to take his vote off yank

Unless you can somehow convince me that exchange that took place in an 11 minute period earlier this page was both of you (highly unlikely since you share a QT and the posts clearly read as 1 person in the same train of thought

Archaebob has

contradicted

lied about his intentions with his votes.

The fact that you whoever you are have now said you have not read the thread doesn't make your spot less scummy.

Archaebob has been caught, and I can't possibly see how either of you can spin it into a pro-town behavior.

[Beck]

@ Tommy, how in the hell is Ivan not on your scum list?

[Beck]

@ Tommy, how in the hell is Ivan not on your scum list?

I don't follow your argument. It looks to me as though one of the heads wants to vote for YankCane and the other one wants to vote for subgenius. Obviously the schizophrenia is somewhat impairing Ivan's ability to play, but it doesn't seem that scummy to me. Could you clarify where you think the lie was and lay out the evidence that it was a lie?

The same head made both comments

Archae voted for acro and later said he has always wanted to vote for Yank

[Beck]

Not bothering to log in as Ivan for this one.

@ Beck -

There is no contradiction, dog. Pay attention to what I am saying. I said specifically that the Acro vote was designed to pressure him into posting more content.

Your entire point revolves around the fact that I said I wanted to stay on Yank the "whole time" which is not what I actually did. If you have half a brain, you'll see that there are far more plausible explanations for the "contradiction" than that I was lying. Why the fuck would I

lie

about that? Frankly, I forgot I had voted Acro at all, it was a pressure vote to get him to post more content, and it was early in the game. None of that conflicts with the real purpose of my earlier comment on this page, which was to express my disagreement with the subgenius vote, and that Yank has been my top suspect throughout this whole time. You are insisting on taking an absolute interpretation of a comment I made and twisting it into a contradiction, like so many other noobs who play this game.

And this is the last time I'm addressing this issue.

1. Please post from Ivan, mod has already commented on it once
2. You were making very good valid points on yank, to drop that and focus on somebody who isn't posting, is not town motivated.

You(Ivan slot) had a strong read on yank, yank had the desired bad reaction. You were on to something. If you are scum hunting you don't abandon it. Look what happened since you switched


Yank has now gone silent
Yank's wagon has stalled
Nobody else can get a decent wagon going

The decision to switch from yank was a horrible one, and I dont care what you say arche, you lied

You switched the vote off yank and you said if it was up to you, you would have been on yank this whole time.

I'm sorry buddy, you are busted.

[Beck]

Mostly I simply dislike that this is coming up as an issue at all. Get your acts straight. If you two can't form coherent stances together, maybe you should sign your posts with 'Head A' and 'Head B' so that we can at least keep the flow of opinions straight.

+1000000000000

And, don't purposely post as your RL head, the fact you admitted you didn't log on as Ivan on purpose is just shameful.

[Beck]

Confid, at the time I made that statement, Ivan wasnt as high on my list as yank is. It is as the day drew on Ivan has become scummier, especially since yank has clammed up.

I support an Ivan lynch now as I am on it, but ill gladly support a yank lynch

Acro is a null read for me so no need to do anything with him ATM.

[Beck]

I agree with the point acro just made, if we know both heads, meta can be used, the refusal to announce each head is more beneficial to scum than town, if they were town I don't see any town motivation from concealing the info

But I'll respect their wishes and not push it

[Beck]

More important, how does SK voting for yank in that post, justify a mislynch?

unvote, vote: yank

As much as I hate this whole confusion thing with Ivan, yank is still the better subject. His silence since Ivan switched off him just proves to me we have hit scum.

SK will need to justify his sheeping at some point as well provide links to the things he claims spoon has done.

P. Edit

I will give you that despite not understanding how you can take your serious vote and move it to a person who had only made 4 posts all game and put him at L-3 for no other reason than his lack of content, I will give you that it did benefit town by creating a huge distraction from yank wagon allowing him to slip under the radar for a while and it has opened my eyes to SK as obsScum as well.

[Beck]

P.edit, why did I add that 2nd " I will give you" lol

[Beck]

Okay. So as I understand it, Beck, your case against Ivan is based on his post 302, which I reproduce here.

unvote

The two of us are in different states right now in terms of how much we've kept up with this game, and need to develop a more coherent understanding of what our respective roles are in this hydra thing. This is our first time trying this, and we apologize if our play has felt disjointed thus far.

I, for one, disagree vehemently with the subgenius vote that was made by the other head. If it were up to me, we would have been on Yank this entire time, which is what I thought we were doing...

vote Yank

Now, the same head had earlier voted for Acronach, as Ivan admits. You think this makes 'this entire time' a lie, but I think it's fairly clear from the context that the post in question is weighing up subgenius and YankCane, with Acronach left behind in the distant past. I'm sorry, but I think your case doesn't hold water.

But maybe that doesn't matter much to you any more, because I see that while I've been writing this, you've suddenly changed horses...

The point I'm making is the same head has contradicted himself, nobody else sees it or maybe they have blinders on but it's there

Also the fact he leaves yank to put acro at L-3 (page 6 i beleive) for lack of content, when acro had not posted since the middle of page 2, that is around 100 posts, that switch to acro based on something so weak of a reason when the points on yank were much more solid, had no town motivation IMO

Regardless of which head actually did it, it had no town motivation. Acro had 3 votes, a 4th served no purpose and it really came out of the blue. To me that was his chance to jump ship and he took it.

I'm still for an Ivan lynch, he is scum buddy number 2

[Beck]

Arco, it's best to move on from the whole VI issue

This is basically all you have focused on it seems, at least I can't remember much.

So, can you go into a little more detail why Ivan, yank, and Sub are your scum reads, feel free to provide links.

I feel that while I have a null read on you, you aren't doing much to progress the game.

[Beck]

==========[]

[Beck]

Will be nice if we can hit night before the 4th, but if not no biggie

[Beck]

:headdesk:

[Beck]

unvote, Vote: Greymarble

Ivan's been giving me town reads, Grey has had 3 posts and really hasn't said much of substance.

WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Please post to anything he has done to give you a town read please, especially after you were saying this

We didn't say we were keeping them to ourselves, we stated them already. You made a comment that sounded nervous and scummy and so we voted you for it. It doesn't require further discussion on our part.

No, you didn't state them. You over-analyzed my first post and then sat back and let the bandwagon form. Herp. I mean really, pushing for a quicklynch on day 1? Are you trying to get lynched tomorrow? If no one can see the ridiculousness behind your case now, I can only hope they see it when I pop up dead townie, tomorrow. There's no way you can be town, while pushing for a quicklynch, failing to discuss, feeding the bandwagon fire, what else? Whether it's today or tomorrow, you're down for the count. Let's just make it easy on the town and lynch sure scum today. Come on, you don't even want to discuss? Sure, it'd be easy to sweep a newb to the gallows and quicklynch without discussion(to make day 2 easy for another mislynch), but I refuse to let that happen, and any real townie will as well. You however, just want the lynch and struck for the first thing you could twist around in your favor. Please, enlighten me to how you guys think you are pro-town in anyways.

Unovte, Vote:Ivan The Pleasant

[Beck]

so for the record, this looks like prototypical double bussing, backtracking, and now distancing.

[Beck]

Normally I like to go in to depth about my cases and explain the thought processes behind everything, but honestly.

3 more votes on Yank and let's call it a day. Seriously.

agreed

and with that I am off to bed, see you in about 6 hours.

[Beck]

jesus christ, if yank is really town mason, than hands down has to be the worst player ever.

I also lol'd at his comments about me and the fact that he is scum hunting (laughable) and not riding bandwagons like me (again laughable)

Yank, did you totally miss where Ivan put Acro at L-3 for basically no reason at all when he was making valid points on you?

you say I am not scum hunting than you clearly have not read the thread.

I'm not changing my vote, I don't believe the mason claim at all, especially since I just searched masons through some completed games and can't find a single game with 3 masons, I found 8 games where there were only 2 masons.

Nothing that Yank has done has shown he is pro-town at all in my opinion, so for now I am leaving my vote on Yank.

he can not like my words about bussing or whatever but that is honestly what it looks like to me.

[Beck]

unvote, vote: Ivan

Worst townie ever if you are mason, nothing you have done makes any sense if you are town.

Going to my scum pick number 2

[Beck]

Why am I retarded, I can't figure out how to subscribe to this thread

Also does anyone know if this site is tapatalk enabled?

P.edit until we have a mason flip, I'm still not believing the claim. Its more believable now you spoke up but I don't really trust you either.

[Beck]

Happy anniversary mod

[Beck]

meh, not a big fan of SK replacing out now, I feel bad for whoever takes his spot/

[Beck]

>people believing the mason claim (facepalm)
>SK replacing out (double facepalm)

well, looks like we're not lynching yank for some reason even though if he is maf in stead of mason we just let the most obvious fucking maf get away with being scummy as hell.

unvote vote ivan

was voting ivan before and i like this wagon more than any other ATM except yank, which apparantly isnt happening -.-

Answer my questions anytime soon?

Now I have to go re-read this thread with the thought that yank is mason, reading it with scumyank is obviously going to be different with masonyank (still not believing the claim just yet, and definitly don't want anyone else to claim mason to prove he is telling the truth). I'll just give him the benefit of the doubt.


Lastly before my re-read, that reaction from sub after Ivan voted him, I don't like

What I'd like is for Tommy to actually attemp to scum hunt
Acro to answer my questions
Yank to show an example of Ivan scum hunting and to also provide his opinion of Ivan abandoning his push on him, to put acro at L-3 for essentially no reason at all.

So much for getting work done today

[Beck]

Still haven't had time to re-read yet but finally got to sit down for lunch

Due to my tunnel vision on yank, Ivan, and SK I honestly can't say I've seen a case for acro

Can somebody explain the case on acro and why he is a better lynch candidate than Ivan or SK(the fact SK is replacing out doesn't change my suspicion of that slot and should not get a free pass solely due to a replacement).

Ivan, can you summarize your case on whoever you have finally decided on lynching?

Thanks

[Beck]

So I'm reading ISOs mostly. Just finished with yank (I still see his play as not town motivated, even as masonyank)

Spoon, why all of a sudden do you like the Acro wagon when you have been pushing SK this entire time. I can't see anywhere you have posted any suspicion of acro exvep for early on due to his lack of content, which he has clearly made up for

In addition, if you are so set on SK, why does him replacing out change that? It's not like SK was close to a lynch.

And why are you trying to defend yank's play now that he has claimed mason? I have never heard of nor seen, Mason play scummy on purpose before. Can you find me an example?

[Beck]

What I'd like is for Tommy to actually attemp to scum hunt
Acro to answer my questions
Yank to show an example of Ivan scum hunting and to also provide his opinion of Ivan abandoning his push on him, to put acro at L-3 for essentially no reason at all.

since it was mixed up with other things, I don't want it to go unnoticed.

[Beck]

truth hurts bro

[Beck]

ok thanks tommy, you actually make some good points now that I read what you said and that post 188 doesn't sit well with me, somehow I missed that cause I was so wrapped up in Ivan/Yank drama

let me re-read Acro's iso again tomorrow and see what I think about him.

[Beck]

I agree about greymarble, more postage
still not impressed with Koolzy either
Tommy has improved
sub has moved down a few notches from my original town read
so has acro
I still despise ivan, but i'm the only one who aparantly has a problem with archaebob contradicting himself
the rest are all null reads
yank I still think is scum
and I am pretty sure I know who the 3 masons are IF, there are 3 masons, which sadly I actually think might be true but it pisses me off cause yank is just so damn scummy.
SK is still scum imo

still waiting to hear more from acro and want him to answer my earier question to him, that bussing comment is a slip the more and more I have time to think of it but not voting til I hear more from him.

[Beck]

Reading acro and taking notes now

P.edit - flattery is not needed but gladly accepted

[Beck]

ok here are the notes I wrote on Acro

1. almost everyone seemed to have some sort of reaction to my post, he essentially ignored it. There are reasons for people to post things like that, it's called reaction testing. Ignoring the comment all together can be quite telling, because a townie who is interested in scum hunting would be questioning it. Acro knew it was a reaction test and decided to leave it alone.

2. while this isn't much, it's something that seemed odd to me because I think Ivan is scum. In one of Acro's posts, he refers to twistedspoon and archaebob, not Captain Spoon and Ivan, why not refer to their in-game names?

3. Like stated earlier, SK defends Arco very early on and continues to do so most of the game, Acro defends SK in return and even tries to prove what SK is referring to. I can't talk about the game right now cause even though I am dead, it is still on going, but people are calling me a VI. I know I am not a VI, I will never be ok with being called a VI so if somebody referred to me as a VI, I would never go and support that person's claim. Again not really a scum tell, but just doesn't make sense if he is genuinely town.

4. Earlier in the game I had some suspicions on Captain Spoon and I voted him, Acro defends CS by calling twistedspoon a vi and basically calling him the worse player in the game. I believe I was the only person voting for CS at the time (maybe 1 other person was, idk) so there was absolutely no need to defend him

5. looking over Acro's games, the one where he was scum and the one where he was town doctor.

the one where he was scum, he made at least 1 if not 2 posts similar to what he did this game, and that was a list of reads where he had everyone broken down. I don't recall seeing that in the game where he was the town doctor. Also in the game where he was town doctor, he was much more agressive in his scum hunting, where I feel in this game he has not really done anything except defending himself.

6. he makes a post that says tomorrow Ivan needs to go no matter what, and in his last "reads" post his suspicions of ivan are

scum
Ivan the Pleasant - needs to stop vote-hopping, needs to stop voting without proper explaination, heads need to learn to communicate, at least one of the heads should be posting more than just simple stuff, and he needs to reply to beck's questions.

a. vote hopping isn't a scum tell, if anything I read it as more of a null/town tell cause vote hopping draws attention to yourself
b. while I disagree with who he is voting for half the time, I do feel that Ivan at least explains his reasonings for each of his votes
c. what does communication with his heads have to do with a person being scum or not
d. pot calling the kettle black?

final point, acro stays on Ivan the entire game until Yank is at L-2, yank says he won't claim unless he is at L-1 so acro votes him to put him at L-1. going through all of acro's posts, his only suspicion of yank comes from points that Ice has made, no where does he provides his own reads on yank, so putting him at L-1 without giving his own reasons for why he is scum, by his own definition shoudl mean he is scum, I mean if Ivan is scum because he didn't provide reasons, than Acro has to be too right?

And acro's reaction to the claim and insistance that he should be lynched regardless is really odd because like I said, he never provided his own reasons why yank was scum other than everything Ice said in his post #50

I'd like Acro to answer my previous questions and respond to this wall of text before I do anything, but I think I may be voting for Acro pretty soon.

[Beck]

This game will get catchup time too, fear not.

How are 2 active poosters inactive together?

[Beck]

V;LA for the next few days. i probably won't be back until after the deadline :/ Hoping for the best today. GL town.

Why not respond to things before you post your V/LA?

You could have said something.

[Beck]

Yeah, not sure why he threw blinker's name out there, nobody has voted for him or cast suspicion towards him

[Beck]

vote acro

No reason for v/la and will be backafter deadline?


http://www.demotivationalposters.org/im ... 384435.jpg

[Beck]

I'm really annoyed at grey right now, since I see one head posting on site about nonsense

[Beck]

Than somehow he needs to be prodded

[Beck]

I've done some checking, there was 1 game with 3 masons and no PRs

Major SMH at who approved that setup

[Beck]

how can you verify mason?

[Beck]

I'm positive that I'm not neighbors.

so your role pm says town mason, or something to that effect?

[Beck]

How can you verify mason? Seriously?

Like, no joke. You're ASKING that?

yes, I am asking that.
the only way I know we can verify mason is to have a mason flip dead, which is ultimately what we don't want if there is a mason.

how else can we verify it? cop? we don't know if we even have one adn no other role can verify it.

so again, besides a dead mason or the off chance we have a cop, how else can it be verified?

[Beck]

Tommy, koolzy, and blinker

Pretty sure there is enough evidence to pick somebody else, you going to vote soon?

[Beck]

Beck: Yea, we're all confirmed to each other.

Has there ever been masons and neighbors in the same group before?

[Beck]

I'm not quite understanding your fixation on this neighbor thing.

I don't beleive his mason claim so I'm looking for alternative explanations

[Beck]

But I'm pretty sure I've pegged the 3, so it's mason or neighbor

[Beck]

L-1 and he is V/LA. smh

[Beck]

I realize with a dead flip. ThT is our only way to confirm it.

That's why I'm not pushing his lynch anymore. Acro giving up like that is scum giving up without violating his win con. If he is somehow town he just hurt us. Going v/la til after deadline so he can't claim is teribad

Greymarble needs to remind his other head they are playing a game cause grey ice is posting elsewhere and it's quite annoying

[Beck]

Enjoy this while playing D&D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54VJWHL2K3I

[Beck]

Yeah, hammer is down.

[Beck]

Have a great 4th of July everyone who celebrates it.

[Beck]

I dont get why acro gave up

vote: Ivan

[Beck]

I'll do a PofE or reads list tommorow hopefully. i think ivan might be town and I want to propose this notion tommorow. I'll need to see if CC agrees though.

oh, and welcome Jily. I think you know us both

what is a PofE?

[Beck]

Hi you guys!

I'll answer to everything directed at me, but try to understand I can't defend my predessor's actions.

Did you take the time to read up?

If so, thoughts of day 1

[Beck]

Why does Acro's flip change SK's allignment?

SK was defending acro, acro clearly was just naive.

There was no town motivation to defend somebody you don't know their allignment.

SK did this.

[Beck]

Tommy, why did you question ivan than provide him an answer to the question?

Ivan, why did you feel the need to sling mud and what did you hope to gain from it?

[Beck]

unvote

need to re-evaluate ivan, I really need to re-read him in general.

their confusion added to my confusion.

SK is still a good lead, but there are others I am suspecting.

Again I need to re-read each person.

I can tell you that I still don't trust captain spoon and their buddying, but I am always leery of people telling me they think I am town, where I normally play i'm always referred to as the most scummiest player lol.

[Beck]

@ Beck

We were pretty much just slinging mud to deliberately confuse the town.

Question for you, Beck: do you know the significance of tongue in cheek?

If I was a fan of policy lynches, which I am not, you should be lynched right now.

[Beck]

and what if I don't

[Beck]

I'm color blind, I can't see blue.

[Beck]

Are you still pretending you are 2 people?

[Beck]

Ok read a few people

Sub, can't put my finger on it yet, but I'm leaning scum on you now. The way you tried to change your vote to grey like it tortured you or something doesn't sit right

Odd note, The Kool is new to this site but has a hydra already? Also reading his first game, I just feel like he is an alt, not that it matters.

What matters is his overreaction vote on spoon, and his useless play all game. I feel his vote for Yank was opportunistic and he tries to play it off after like his vote was serious.

His failure to provide any real reads while at one point calling somebody a lurker, and accusing me of" sitting back enjoying the show" is extremely laughable.

vote: DJ Koolzy

[Beck]

And as dumb as this sounds, I doubt grey is scum. Scum hammering like that would definitly draw extra attention on himself.

[Beck]

1. pretty quick response to my vote, a whole 11 minutes
2. I don't need to quote what you said, your ISO is short enough you can easily find where you said those things, but if you must have quotes

1. over-reaction

Okay, guys. You NEVER EVER answer questions directed at someone else, or try to explain their reasoning! The questions were directed at them for a reason, and if you give the 'right' answer, scum could just say 'what he said' instead of the flawed response they would have given, outing them as scum. Hence, you NEVER EVER ANSWER QUESTIONS DIRECTED AT SOMEONE ELSE!

VOTE: Captain Spoon

And yeah, this is a hydra, led by The Kool.

2. the comment about me

Beck seems to me to be trying to sit back and enjoy the show. He has contributed some though, and his lighthearted tone seems way to risky for a mafia or third party. I think he's probably town that needs to buckle down.

calling somebody a lurker, while accurate, this was in your 2nd post of the game

Greymarble has one silly post. Lurker! Possibly trying to avoid attention, not hard in a game of 13. Likely 3rd party.

but actually this entire post

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 3#p3163673

is full of fence sitting, afraid to really call anyone out as scum, and doesn't even use scum that much, just refers to people as possible 3rd party. Why speculate on 3rd party at all on day 1 anyway.

[Beck]

yeah, as much as it pains me to admit it, Ivan is becoming more and more of a town read, I really just want to bang my head against a brick wall than admit it is true.

I think Koolzy needs more votes just to get him to participate, he has 2 and right after I voted he comes in trying to explain himself.

I think we need to hear from lily because her slot is the biggest suspect for me right now.

[Beck]

lol Tommy, so you don't suspect the SK slot at all now?

[Beck]

Tommy my read on grey is the same as your read on SK, except you are afraid to come out and call it a town thing to do because it's wifom. I'm not afraid to admit I sometimes use wifom when making my reads, this entire game is based on wifom.

I sit and ask myself, what is the town and scum motivation for each move.

I don't get why SK defended acro, as town it makes no sense to defend somebody you don't know the alliance to. Plus VI, typically implies town yet SK said he wasn't sure if he was town, so why defend him?

That's why I called out Ivan earlier D1, why make good points on somebody and than drop the wagon and attack a lurker. As town, I see no benefit from it.

That's why I'm on Kool now, he has yet to make a scum read on anyone and he isn't even attempting to scum hunt.

[Beck]

I now find SleepyKrew less suspicious than, say, ConfidAnon or Da Koolzzy. And certainly less than Greymarble and Ivan.

Explain why each is suspicious to you

[Beck]

*scrunches up forehead*

This was one super confusing read.

Ok, everything I though of and many things I didn't think of have already been pointed out...so assuming by lily, you actually meant me, Beck, what would you like me to do?

Questions anyone?

I asked you to provide your thoughts on day 1. Your slot is on the hot seat so saying "everything has been pointed out by others" isn't going to cut it.

[Beck]

Just look at the end of D1.
I say "we shouldn't lynch Acro" and the next 4 posts are "maybe we wagon marble instead" and then I'm like WELL FUCK THAT and hammer.
I did not have enough townleaderpoints to make a new wagon happen on somebody I actually wanted to lynch.

That actually makes sense but the town points, was your own doing. Get a reliable hydra partner next time.

The pushing on grey really makes no sense, the SK slot, Koolzy, and possibly Tommy are who we need to focus on, especially SK, now acro flipped town

[Beck]

I clicked this thread with high hopes, I leave utterly disappointed

[Beck]

What site please ?

[Beck]

Just so you guys don't think I'm lurking, I'll post back in a few hours when I feel like it.

It's times like these I wish we could lynch 2 people

[Beck]

Ice: You have Beck down as lurker, he's been the most active? Where you just joking?

I thought that at first, than I actually slowed down and read the words leading up to it.

[Beck]

Can we just pick jily or Koolzy and lynch one of them?

This game is stalling because we wait for them to play

Jily basically said She isn't lurking but will posts when she feels like it
Calls soneone out for their lack of posting
Claims her play style is to do wall of posts, but hasn't done one yet
Hasn't given her reads on day 1, even though I asked twice
Has posted nothing but garbage.

Koolzy isn't really much different except he isn't a replacement.


Regardless, they are doing nothing in the game to catch scum

[Beck]

Yeah, lynch people you know nothing about to make yourself feel better. good job.

you do realize there is no town motivation to lurk and avoid answering questions and providing reads.

you do also realize if one of these people were put at L-2 or even L-1 it would force them to participate and answer questions.

Sometimes, town's best and strongest weapon is the vote.

why not pressure one of the lurkers who has been under suspicion almost the entire game.
Jily replaced SK and that slot is at the top of almost every single person's scum list ATM (or should be) and she responds by ignoring requests to provide reads and says she will post when she feels like it?

i'm sorry that is crap and to excuse that behavior is also crap.

Vote: Jily

i'm not suggesting she be lynched just yet, but putting her at L-2 isn't a bad idea right now.

[Beck]

@ mod - prod on confid?

[Beck]

lol. Oops

[Beck]

Ok, V/LA until Monday.

I'll reply to everyone on Monday.

not acceptable. why replace into a game and than flake, and now go on a V/LA

you are scum, I am happy with my vote on you, I suggest everyone else puts you to L-1 so when you come back from your V/LA of 1 fucking day, you will be forced to contribute.

[Beck]

Jesus, people really don't understand the concept of a hydra, do they? I highly suggest that you not do it again.

totally agree lol

[Beck]

Ivan, that's why you have a QT, you need to discuss your reads better.

[Beck]

+1 to lynching jilly or Koolzy since they keep avoiding the game

Id probably be ok with a Tommy or Sub lynch too

[Beck]

wait, Ice isn't mason? FUCK he was one of my mason reads, lol

Jilly is definitly the best lynch for today, SK was scum suspect day 1 and jilly has done nothing to change it.

We know she isn't a mason.

[Beck]

Oh just noticed Jilys V/LA until Monday, so maybe she will respond more when she gets back, we should probably wait to here a reply.

I won't Hold my breath

[Beck]

I never got that, SK defended acro first and repeatedly

If anything this makes SK, more suspicious

[Beck]

Jily is in like 5 or 6 games too

[Beck]

It better be a doozy

[Beck]

He never said he is replacing Koolzy but he prodded him

[Beck]

I'm not ok lynching blinker today

[Beck]

The only people getting lynched today are on the "definitly not mason" list

Blinker wasn't on that list.

[Beck]

There also has been little support to blinker being scum, that's another reason I'm hesitant.

I'll try and actually read your post though later today. Massive Walls, iPhone, and ADD don't work together.

[Beck]

No role is super boring

[Beck]

I've played with Jilly before Beck, get VERY used to not hearing from her. She will not post anything, at all, even if you lynch her.

Ok, you have not played with me at all then. Also, I'm pretty sure you're lying here.

On the games that I flake with is like 1/3, I really start posting when I get to L-1 or something. On the games I don't flake, I post at an average of 2x a day.

Town doesn't lie. Therefore you must be scum.

In case my memory actually slipped, do tell me which game that was.

He is a hydra. Achrobob is who said it

[Beck]

Sorry archaebob

[Beck]

A Vanilla Townie is super boring.

VT is the most fun role ever, it allows you to question people without fear.

people need to embrace their VT role when they get it, lurking in the background isn't helping town, and the goal for VTs is to WIN right?

why depend on power roles alone to win it for you?

[Beck]

Jily, question

If you are know to flake and not post content in other games, why do you replace in for people?

You potentionally took the slot from somebody else who may have actually tried to play

Plus the odds each game to nail a PR role is small, and quite frankly i dont see how you would play better if you even had a role.

For future games, if you get a VT role, pretend to have one in your mind. Do good at scum hunting so mafia kills you thinking you were the PR. Uktimately that's the purpose of a VT, to alleviate the attention from power roles

I respectfully request you to provide content or you will be lynched, if you are town you will hurt the rest of us by forcing a ML

[Beck]

her signature is telling

Being 13, means that I don't have to work and that, yes, I do have time to sign up for 10+ games.

Lost two games as scum.

Lost two games as town.

Won two games as scum.

Haven't won any games as town.

seems like we are screwed if she is town

[Beck]

I have a question, where did you learn Dazzy was the other head because looking through their ISO they never say it and I don't recall anyone else pointing it out?

[Beck]

lol, I have the sigs disabled.

Only reason I saw jilly's was cause it's visible when you click their name

[Beck]

Blinker's vote totally makes me take my mason vibe from him away

[Beck]

2ndly, i am now leaning scum on subsy

[Beck]

I need to make a case on a leaning scum vibe? Not really

I'm not voting you right now so no need wasting time making a case

[Beck]

ugh, I have to look at that horrible avatar?

can we turn off avatars?

[Beck]

it's hard to put into words exactly what it is about subsy, it's just the things he has said in the past few pages and the vote changes don't really sit well.

615 and 718 I don't like either of those posts
Joins the Archo wagon really late even after originally arguing that SK was the better lynch target because of the buddying
511 he just follows ivan's request
than he sort of just blends in agreeing with a jilly or kool lynch
and because koolzy is being replaced he decides the jilly wagon isn't good anymore and votes Ivan?

something just doesn't make sense, nothing is cohesive and he seems to be trying to appease everyone.

[Beck]

oh sorry, not sure why I called you subsy


what changed about Jilly is when she basically came in here and elluded to the fact that she isn't really going to do or say anything. I'm not suggesting she be lynched or hammered (she is still at L-2 since you un-voted) but she hasn't been back since being at L-1/L-2 iirc.

I want to see what she has to say now that she is closer to a lynch.

where did you get the impression I think ivan is town, I think it is odd that you were following his orders when he told you to vote greymarble, and now all of a sudden you vote him. Why the 180?

I appreciate your explanations, I personally am not buying them atm. but I am not declaring you be lynched, right now I want the Koolzy and Jilly spots to participate and that is my only motivation.

we have plenty of time with this super long deadline, I am in no rush to have her lynched right now.

I still want her to post to the links where she is town like was asked
I still want her to provide HER reads on who she thinks is scum

but remember, her slot is the SK slot and that slot was OBVSCUM day 1 and the Acro town flip just made it more obvious.

[Beck]

lol, I guess I did call him town, I'll have to re-read as to why

Why did you flip on Ivan, what changed your mind

[Beck]

The reason why I feel he is town is his play is so anti-town, I don't feel them as mafia would play like that, plus they'd make sure to keep their reads on people to not draw attention to themselves.

[Beck]

If it was later in the game, the scum to scummy would be thrown out, but day 2, he can dangle and hopefully do something that confirms him one way or the other

[Beck]

If it was later in the game, the scum to scummy would be thrown out, but day 2, he can dangle and hopefully do something that confirms him one way or the other

Not really sure what you are saying here.

you told me not to fall for the "scummy too scummy thing"

basically it's day 2, he can be ignored for now and it gives him more posts to compare if he happens to be alive later in the game and we are un-sure

but he isn't a good candidate for a lynch today in my opinion.

yes I realize his scummy behavior can be an act, but coming from a guy who is accused of being scummy in every game, I feel we can let him slide a day or 2 and hopefully be investigated or whatever.

I need to re-read marble tomorrow, idk what to do about jilly

[Beck]

Are you suggesting we manufacture reads so that you can feel better about how townie we're being?

That's pretty much what I'm suggesting. I'm not seeing any authenticity in your reads. Either you're being lazy about scum hunting or you're scum. Since there are two of you, and you've maintained a pretty decent post rate, I'm thinking you've had plenty of time to come up with scum reads that make more sense and act upon them. You haven't, so I'm thinking you're scum.

@Beck
Your position on Ivan isn't really making sense right now. You said you were leaning town on Ivan as recently as post 740, but as soon as Scott called you on using the "too scummy to be scum" argument, you changed your stance to saying Ivan is actually scummy, but he just shouldn't be lynched today, which seems like more of a neutral read at best. I'm not quite sure what to make of the inconsistency, but the town read followed by a quick retreat seems strange to me. I don't quite understand how you can say someone looks town in one post and then say we can lynch them later an hour and half afterwards.

way to mis-rep me

I said I have a town read on him because he is too scummy to be scum

if later in the game he is still alive and we are scratching our heads, that too scummy to be scum will be thrown out of the window and the things he has said through the course of the game will be scrutinized.

I just don't think he is the best day 2 target.

thanks for being more scummy

[Beck]

ok reading marble's posts I learn absolutely nothing

The only smart thing he says is vote somebody on the list of not masons

So the choices for me are Ice, marble, or jilly

Need to re-read ice next but jilly's slot is already scummy so I'm okay with her, marble's lack of scum hunting is interesting too, plus that rush to hammer was bad.

Unless I see something absolutely horrible from ice, the top choices for today I think are jilly and marble

[Beck]

Beck, I hate to keep harping on you, because I really do feel like you're town, but could you explain when Ice ended up on your lynchable list? Looking through your ISO, I don't see anything suggesting suspicion of him. At one point, you said you thought he was a mason, and now he's on your short list of lynch targets. To be clear, I feel good about your play so far, but I'd feel better if I knew what made you change your read on him.

I said earlier, I'm pretty sure, that we should be lynching somebody from the "not masons" list this is the pool of people we are choosing from.

I do not choose myself, I don't think Ivan is a good candidate either, that leaves Ice, marble, and jilly

I wants to re-read each person cause I had null reads on ice and marble (mostly due to not really paying close attention to their posts)

I have done my re-reads (except the one Ivan which I am going to after lunch)

Ice- has posted lots of content and he looks genuine in what he is posting(it's hard to interpret genuin behavior I realize but he doesn't come off as scummy to me)

Marble - really hasn't contributed anything stellar, had activity issues early with a fail hydra partner. I feel I don't really know where he stands

Jilly - the SK buddying makes this slot look bad, jilly coming in doing nothing but "poor me, I'm just a VT" could be an act.

That's where I stand, id be fine with either

I honestly feel if jilly is going to be replaced again, that's going to just fuck this game up more.

[Beck]

Seems you are so concerned about him, have anything to do with the fact he is voting you?

The thing with Ivan is more of a gut read ATM , his play as scum doesn't make sense

Now if people make valid reasons why his play = scum, I'll listen. But Bering a scummy player as town many times before, I don't feel like he is scum.

That's why I made that comment about banging my head, I wanted him to be scum, I just don't beleive he is.

[Beck]

Another thing, I tend to Watch what people do and say to help my gut reads, if I feel he is being less helpful, I'll gladly call him out on it

Right now he is a sit back and watch what he does player.

Marble and jilly are just not helping v

[Beck]

I'll read your case, I sort of skimmed it the first time.

[Beck]

Sub I read your case, and this is why this hydra sucks ass

They started strong, questioning whoever it was day he was questioning day 1, than the other head came in and went psycho

I even pointed it out at one point.

This is a Dr. Jeckyk and Mr. Hyde hydra.

Ignore Jilly's play

Day 1 you voted SK after acro cause you felt his lynch was better by the way he was defending arco. Arco flipped town, making the defense seem like SK knew that.

Why would SK lynch not be desirable?

Also, what are your thoughts on marble's play thus far?

[Beck]

clearly you guys have gone an entire game without your reads never changing? I highly doubt it

all I basically said is based on his play, I don't feel ivan is mafia. Mostly because it is due to the fact he is too scummy, which I have been accused of in the past and sometimes even currently.

this never meant that I will never lynch him if I feel he slips later in the game or something.

you act like I said "I will never lynch him"

and than an hour later I say I will


basically

Day 2 - he deserves more time to get him and his hydra straight after a rocky start

Day 5 or 6 - he and everyone else alive, will need to be re-read and scrutinized.

[Beck]

I actually like ivan's case, I'll read sub's response to it soon

[Beck]

Sometime this weekend I'll try and force myself to re-read day 1

I just can't get over the defense of SK. That is almost always scum defending town

[Beck]

Meh, sub's defense isn't special. Those 2 votes where he seemed to Compromise or sheep are quite telling

But since he isn't on the list of "non masons"

I don't support a lynch of him today

[Beck]

The ONLY problem I have is that list didn't contain everyone's name so there could be scum not on the list

Im assuming he named out the Masons biggest scum reads?

Idk really

[Beck]

Masons aren't usually allowed to communicate during the day. YankCane was just making sure that the people on his scum list couldn't claim mason. I think, all else being equal, we should lynch from the list, but if we can find good reasons to lynch somebody not on it, we shouldn't hesitate to do so.

I wouldn't assume that. I've read games here where masons had day talk. I beleive Sub was even in one of them (found it when doing meta research)

[Beck]

Nope

[Beck]

Tommy buddying me, will never work. I have not liked him most game. I just am having a hard time finding anything that stands out. Usually I vote with a reason behind it, all I got on Tommy without an iso re-read is gut

[Beck]

Tommy, can you explain how I was 3rd on your list to lynch after marble and Ivan, to thinking I am town in just 4 days

The reason why you said that was because I was scum hunting, however I feel over the past 4 of days the value of my content has actually decreased due to the sheer boringness of this game and my general lack of interest because for once I haven't had to defend myself (usually I am never thought of as a town read, so I was quite happy when Sub's called me out for his interpretation of my reads)

so I would like you to point out what I said between ppst 635 when you made that comment in post 770

I would also like a better case on why you want to lynch marble, because basically your reason with your vote was he hammered a townie and he is avoiding questions, while it is frustrating I know, I have learned on this site that avoiding questions isn't always a scum tell

[Beck]

What is strange here? He wants to pursue Tommy, I want to pursue you. We compromise and I pursue you while I'm around, and when I'm not he'll go after Tommy.

please never play as a hydra again

[Beck]

Damn you know what, I took the part where you were telling us something about lynching a lurk, and thought that was part of your FOS list. My bad tommy

[Beck]

I have no issue with being on your scum list, but you put me on there because you misinterpreted something that is obviously not what I said. Sub tried to twist my words around cause he is probscum and you fell for it.

[Beck]

Go re-read, i just re-read them myself , that isn't what I said at all

so you either mis-read or you are mis-repping

[Beck]

Yes, I use my own experiences to determine what's scummy, just like you use yours

Imagine that....

[Beck]

but that is actually your example is a good theory to use. Town should not lurk, so anyone lurking should be treated as scum, if they are town than they should really stop it.

But with regards to Ivan, even though he has come off scummy, I feel that his posting has gotten progressively better, which Is why I feel he isn't a viable option, however I feel that Sub's posting has gotten progressively worse. My re-read of Subs I learn that

Early on he came after me, than he was to last to move his vote until he found something better, but there was plenty of things better at that time. Than he goes from thinking I am scum to thinking I am town and I honestly felt like he was trying to get on my good side. I didn't like the post where he acted like the enforcer when he was telling acro that he had questions pending from me and tommy, like it is his job to force people to answer my questions.

I don't like that he was pushing hard on SK day 1 for defending Acro, than later switched his vote to Yank fro a really really weak reason, than later votes Acro, essentially ignoring his huge day 1 argument that SK was most likely scum of the 2, he joins the acro wagon really late

looking at the vote count and his votes, what I found odd is that he basically followed captain spoon around or has joined the largest wagon, with the exception to his very first vote which he put on me.

I don't like anything Sub has done this game, I don't feel he is making valid contributions.

Vote: Sub

[Beck]

shit I forgot Sub wasn't on the list

unvote

I can't support a marble wagon because Ice is supporting a marble wagon and since I believe he has proven his ability to make good decision making sucks, I will not be on any wagon he is pushing. Not to mention I have not seen a really valid case for his lynch.

the only thing I can say about marble is I don't really know where he stands

now that being said and the game now being over Jilly was scum and was much more active when close to a lynch, in this game she still is just like whatever so using meta from that one game, I am un-sure about he alliance

[Beck]

You can't learn much from a hammer really

[Beck]

Somebody make a good case for him, nobody has.

My reason for marble is lack of content and not knowing where he stands

My reason fiord jily was due to SK defending Acro hard, with Acro flipping town

Compare the 2 and jilly/SK is more suspicious and the reason (to me) is better.

[Beck]

I never completely eliminated Jilly fwiw.

[Beck]

Actually anyone late in the Yank wagon proves to me they aren't masons. So a Sub lynch would be acceptable today

[Beck]

i'm unable to discuss why my stance on hammers have changed due an on-going game.

I don't like that you are refusing to make a case on llama yet you are voting him

how is refusing to make a case, town motivated? i'll tell you, it's not.

[Beck]

My case on Llama is that you're backing off on your willingness to lynch him with extremely lame reasoning. Explain yourself well enough and maybe you'll convince me that I shouldn't vote for your buddy.

I have been advocating a jilly lynch all day, and I am still advocating a jilly lynch.

my only problem was now i have 1 game where she was scum and was at L-2 and contributed, but that meta alone isn't enough. SK's damage day 1 is pretty damaging and i think she learned from that last game and could have possibly changed her meta.

is marble scummy? yes

worse than jilly? absolutely not.

Vote: Jilly

since I forgot to do this when I unvoted

[Beck]

You can't learn much from a hammer really

This statement is staggering.

as I said I can't discuss ongoing game that caused me to change my reasoning why I thought his hammer was bad, but I will say I have seen my fair share of town hammers in previous games so just cause he hammered an obviously scummy person isn't reason enough to lynch somebody.

[Beck]

can you get any scummier sub?

I said based on jilly's play in another game, I am un-sure of her alliance this game

but SK's play day 1 is pretty damning evidence that he is scum.

as for the hammer, I honestly don't think mafia would be dumb enough to hammer someone they know is going to flip town AND SAY THEY THINK THEY ARE GOING TO FLIP TOWN

that would be the stupidest thing mafia could do.

[Beck]

The fact Sub is pretty much trying to deflect from the jilly wagon is also very telling

[Beck]

Sub, clearly I don't care if you think I'm pro town, you have proven you are scum by trying to twist everything to make it seen scummy

You started with the obvious mis-rep of my comment I called you out earlier and you just keep doing it

You are trying to twist the jilly thing around too cause I don't use her meta as a reason to keep her around

D1 you pushed hard for a SK/Acro connection, Acro town flip confirms SK is most likely scum yet you are distancing from her lynch now.

Caught scum is caught bro.

Also I have 0 cares about being a town read, I'd rather just look scummy but catch scum.

[Beck]

1. I wasn't lying, I meant to re-vote jilly. If your opinion was you think I'm lying, fine.


2. Acro town flip Makes a good case for SK being scum, you even agreed with that cause thats why you voted Sk day one, you even said this

Now, these contradictions on their own aren't important, but these inconsistencies lead me to think that you were going out of your way to defend Acro for an unknown reason rather than following a rational train of thought that lead to the conclusion that Acro should not be subjected to pressure. I'm having trouble thinking of a town motivation for defending another so early in the game without a clear reason, so I'm forced to conclude that you're scum.

So day 1, it was good enough to vote him, but now day 2 you attack me for doing it?

Do you not even agree with your own case anymore?

What SK did makes sense as SK scum

What marble did doesn't make sense as marble scum

Common sense says vote jilly/SK

[Beck]

Hammering someone for self preservation is something town wouldn't do?

You are full of shit.

Also you are distancing from a jilly lynch now that it was getting closer to happening, that's why you started grasping at straws and mis-repped my statement about Ivan.

You dont support a jilly lynch now because what?

What has she done to make you think she is not scum anymore?

Please explain this.

You think I'm trying to prevent a llama lynch, tbh I don't give a shit if he gets lynched or not, but NOBODY has made a valid case for his lynch. That hammer, while very bad, isn't grounds enough to lynch over SK