Newbie 1138 - Game Over! Town Win!

For Newbie Games, which have a set format and experienced moderators. Archived during the 2023 queue overhaul.
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Post Post #8 (isolation #0) » Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:42 am

Post by cavjj »

BBmolla wrote:
1. How many games have you played at MafiaScum?
2. Have you played anywhere else prior to MafiaScum?
3. Do you believe in magic?
4. Know any of the other players in the game from prior games?



1. 0 - I plan to take your breath a way with a thrilling newby game.......
2. Played a bit in school in my younger years as an experiment of a friend who wanted to try the game out at the youth group he ran
3. Of course, duh! *mutters * "Muggle"
4. Nope

Whoever posts underneath me is going to get my vote.... :D
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Post Post #14 (isolation #1) » Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:55 pm

Post by cavjj »

I Am Innocent wrote:
cavjj wrote:Whoever posts underneath me is going to get my vote.... :D


Another instance of a player avoiding to determine his own choice of a vote on another player. Add in the fact that if nobody posts, the game does not progress, so why threaten the next poster?


Not really. It was the most pure random vote I could think of. What is the likelihood of
no-one
posting? Game ends just because I put that? Slightly melodramatic methinks.

The only players I would consider voting for at the moment is Honest Abel. The first impression, the first piece of information that he wants us all to know about him, is that the odds of him being scum for the fake start and this game, twice, are slim? Hmmmmm
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Post Post #15 (isolation #2) » Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:56 pm

Post by cavjj »

Oh yes, so obviously

VOTE: I Am Innocent
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Post Post #42 (isolation #3) » Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:50 pm

Post by cavjj »

Scumhunter wrote: Someone else do all the work and generate content and I'll help find the scum later.


You mean lurk?

Wickedestjr wrote:If I was mafia and had a kill night 0, I would have killed I Am Innocent. With nothing else to go on I would've eliminated the most experienced player aside from myself both because it would make things slightly easier for me and because it would be unfair to get rid of one of the newer players before they even had the chance to play at all.


This is the same reason I would have voted for wickedestjr, although looking through it seems most of us newbies have played in one form or another and aware enough of "correct" theory so the advantage of voting this way is negligible I think.

dicknose wrote:i have a couple questions. townies, what's your strategy? mafiosos, what is yours?

I take it you are asking everyone what would their strategy be in those roles or are you seriously expecting (assuming you are VT) 6 answers for a town strategy and two for a scum? As a townie, for me it's a lynch all liars policy. Fake claim or lie without a bloody good reason and I will press for your lynch. As I have said, as scum, it has to be the most experienced N1 until a PR is revealed.
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Post Post #45 (isolation #4) » Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:43 pm

Post by cavjj »

UNVOTE: I am innocent

I think the time for random voting is gradually coming to an end. I don't think though, that there has been enough discussion to legimately lynch potential scum. Its 10.40am where I am right now, I will look at anything posted by the time I get home fron work and see if there is anything then.

As I said, and as BBmolla pointed out as well, scumhunter needs to post more, on current basis though, I think I'll be voting for Honest Abel.
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Post Post #54 (isolation #5) » Thu Jul 28, 2011 5:54 am

Post by cavjj »

Current votecount (This is UNOFFICIAL, just had a quick skim through and tallied up, may be mistakes)

Honest Abel: 3 votes
(Dark Claymore, BBmolla, I Am Innocent)

BBmolla: 1 vote
(Honest Abel)

No-one else has any votes.
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Post Post #55 (isolation #6) » Thu Jul 28, 2011 6:04 am

Post by cavjj »

Honest Abel wrote:Let's skip the stupid discussion about how odds are slim I was chosen to be mafia on both rolls, shall we?


This is the one thing that has bugged the hell out of me since your first post. So half due to suspicion and half due to:

If I get to L-1, I will share the rest of my thoughts, but they will be premature.


VOTE: Honest Abel
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Post Post #59 (isolation #7) » Thu Jul 28, 2011 6:59 am

Post by cavjj »

UNVOTE: Honest Abel

A fair request. I've unvoted so you aren't in immediate danger of a hammer. That is, however, the only reason, you're still top of my suspect list. I will follow this with a summary. I am due in a meeting in half an hour but I will post as much as I can before then and anything I have ommited or missed on my return.
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Post Post #60 (isolation #8) » Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:19 am

Post by cavjj »

I'm not going to get chance to post my thoughts on every player before I have to get off so I will do that later. In the mean time, my thoughts on Honest Able and why I put him to L-1

Ok so your first post contained:
Let's skip the stupid discussion about how odds are slim I was chosen to be mafia on both rolls, shall we?


You did talk about that and said you DON'T think that that means you have less chance. I don't know whether it was just joking around while being in the random stages to create discussion, but regardless of what you thought about it, why even mention it? You are asking us, not to talk about the possibility of you being scum, that's what it boils down to.

------------------

cavjj, you admit that you want me to share my thoughts prematurely? Sharing them now will only tip people off that I find them suspicious and will be watching their moves for certain things, thereby changing their behavior and making their patterns more difficult to distinguish. Being premature, they are also possibly ill-formed and uninteresting. I hope it's worth it to you:


They were admittedly pros and cons of trying to force your hand. As you said yourself, putting scum under pressure is one of the best strategies available citing a game where not once did you actually have to lie. If you are scum, the way I see it, you've given people on here an oppertunity (which I took) to put yourself under pressure. I was looking for a slip to be honest. I would rather go for an early successful scum lynch early on through gut instinct and risk losing a VT if that means that we have one less scum embedding themselves into the game, gathering... "supporters" (for want of a better word)

--------------------

The other reason, I wanted to press you and why I'm suspicious is your treatment of the random questions at the start of the game. You aren't bothered about who has played where or how many times and whatever else, but some people are. At least one person is, they asked the question. The way I look at it; if every question, no matter how mundane, who it was asked by (and what role that person I think might have) was answered, we gain more information and it makes it easier to find who is a VT and who isn't. If I think you are a scum and you ask a question, I will still want to see it answered by the group/person you asked it to. I don't think I'll be alone with that stance.

But, you wanted to get right down to the thick of it. I actually thought in my head, reading the post "He's looking for PR's". Are you looking for PR's to save yourself? Or because you are Scum?

Apologies for leaving at this point but I will be back on later.
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Post Post #62 (isolation #9) » Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:25 am

Post by cavjj »

I don't think BBmolla is self voting singer.
Balls, lol.



Sorry that was as gentle a way of putting it as I could think of :)
That was lovely, thank you. :P
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Post Post #75 (isolation #10) » Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:56 am

Post by cavjj »

Alright all, just got back and promised a post, will be with you shortly
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Post Post #93 (isolation #11) » Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:43 pm

Post by cavjj »

BBmolla wrote:I can understand the want to end D1. I'm at L-1. Does anyone have any intent on hammering?


I am considering it to be fair, in my eyes, you are only probably third on my list of suspects, but N1 will give us lots more to think about and as I have previously said, I would rather risk losing a VT than letting a potential scum escape, even if it is D1 and we haven't got lots to go on.
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Post Post #94 (isolation #12) » Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:56 pm

Post by cavjj »

Sod it, sometimes you've just got to go with your gut instinct over analysis.

VOTE: BBmolla
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Post Post #100 (isolation #13) » Mon Aug 01, 2011 1:56 am

Post by cavjj »

Right well let's look at the simple fact here. 5 people voted for BB's lynch. Including yourself which I will address later on in the post. That's
5
. I want to go back to something I said earlier in the thread.

I would rather go for an early successful scum lynch early on through gut instinct and risk losing a VT if that means that we have one less scum embedding themselves into the game, gathering... "supporters" (for want of a better word)


I stand by that, as shown by my actions. The analysis posted by IAI from a previous game concurs. Funnilly enough, your essentially agreed with as well. This post is your reply to the above post I have quoted:

This is something I often think about, too. Because the more someone talks, the more explaining and defending that person can do. I don't know about anyone else, but I am usually pretty sympathetic in those situations and am easy swayed, or at least made to hesitate, by explanations. So sometimes, an early scum read is a good thing to lynch on, but it takes a lot of the detective work out of the game.


If you were so concerned about an early lynch, then why did you leave you vote on BBmolla when they were on L-1. In fact, if you were so concerned about an early lynch, why vote at all?
Strange how you come on here D2 all brazen for hammering someone that you actually voted for.....


It's a newbie game, potential scum tells from noobs can often be put down to inexperience. Let me be clear on that point, I'm referring to BBmolla throughout the game and not my hammer. I do not attribute that hammer to my inexperience in online mafia. I stand by what I did. I stand by that quote above.

5 of us (3 if 2 scum were in the vote) made a mistake. That includes you ....

______________________________________________________________________

So let's talk about Scumhunter then. I made one tiny comment asking whether he was lurking (to which he said yes!). Think like a scum for a moment (maybe you don't have to...). My hammer is obviously going to arouse suspicion. Maybe it's extreme newbishness, maybe I'm scum, maybe I'm confident in my reads. But N1, two scum are reading the game and going: "Wow, cavjj is in trouble here, if we get rid of Scumhunter he's going to look even worse...". I wouldn't be that stupid if I was scum.

______________________________________________________________________

I didn't have a massive Scumhunter issue, I addressed (with a three word comment) something he said. You are reading too much into it. In all honesty, I was more suspicious of you than I was of BBmolla or Scumhunter. But I gave you the chance to answer my concerns, which you did and I took the vote off. No I didn't gave BB a chance and made a mistake. I accept that. Why didn't I? I think a mixture of instinct and a desire to get D1 over with, something a couple of other players agreed with.

So that's why I hammered. I leave you with one question. If I was scum, obviously hammering BBmolla was going to arouse suspicion and probably start a bandwagon (which I'm now fully expecting). Knowing that, why would I still do it? Because I'm PT and we had a chance to get rid of scum.
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Post Post #101 (isolation #14) » Mon Aug 01, 2011 1:57 am

Post by cavjj »

EBWOP

Strange how you come on here D2 all brazen for hammering someone that you actually voted for.....

Should read:

Strange how you come on here D2 all brazen at me for hammering someone that you actually voted for.....
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Post Post #109 (isolation #15) » Mon Aug 01, 2011 3:38 am

Post by cavjj »

whilst wrote:cavjj, first I just want to know why this never materialized:

cavjj wrote:Alright all, just got back and promised a post, will be with you shortly


Temporary limited access reasons. I posted that at 9:56pm my time (I am in the UK - GMT. Gave it up as a bad job and went to bed. I had access via my phone but could not make the wall post I wanted to make. Woke up the next morning before work and hammered at 7:56 am before I left for work due to my internet being back up. I apologise, appreciate there is very little I can do to prove that, and hope you will accept that.




whilst wrote:Right, just thought that over. I guess you're saying:

1. the mafia makes you, cavjj, look bad
2. the town ends up lynching cavjj
3. In the end its two townies dead, cavjj and scumhunter
4. It is also Night 2, mafia gets another kill

I don't know. I still think the mafia would lynch someone helpful, than try to frame another player.


Basically, combine that with the fact I've already made myself "look bad" with the hammer. Scumhunter going is a sensible move from scum and I can see why they've done it, it doesn't help me in anyway at all.

dicknose wrote:There's a huge difference between a vote and a hammer. You're trying to say he's suspicious for voting for someone? You're either a bad scumhnter or obvious mafia or both.


It's not JUST a vote though. It's an L-1 vote. Abel isn't top of my list, it was a rebuttal to him specifically asking about the hammer but having voted himself for it.
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Post Post #113 (isolation #16) » Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:11 am

Post by cavjj »

Fair enough dicknose, wouldn't that be wickedest anyway?

So if you had read them, you'd know I was referring to getting rid of Scumhunter after what I'd said earlier in the thread..
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Post Post #114 (isolation #17) » Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:11 am

Post by cavjj »

Sorry, second line was for Abel
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Post Post #133 (isolation #18) » Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:14 am

Post by cavjj »

Honest Abel wrote:Or a pinot noir from a riesling for that matter.



I couldn't :s
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Post Post #135 (isolation #19) » Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:23 am

Post by cavjj »

DarkClaymore wrote:
It's true that the whole hammering thing makes him an obvious target, something scum shouldn't do, but he tried to defend himself in very awkward ways. This make it impossible for me to ignore the possibility he planned to use all these excuses from the beginning in order to clear himself latter on :shifty:


So I hammer BB knowing everyone is going to come on here D2 and go "WTF?" having planned those excuses?


Dark Claymore wrote:Yeah,weakl


Said it yourself friend.
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Post Post #137 (isolation #20) » Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:52 am

Post by cavjj »

cavjj wrote:
Dark Claymore wrote:Yeah,weak


Said it yourself friend.


Have anything better to offer? :roll:[/quote]

Not really, I would only be going over old ground. I have explained as best I can why I hammered BB. If you have any specific questions though, I'll obviously address them.
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Post Post #139 (isolation #21) » Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:08 am

Post by cavjj »

............. Right OK.

How annoyed would you be in your buddy Abel was scum?
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Post Post #143 (isolation #22) » Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:26 am

Post by cavjj »

I don't plan on hammering anyone unless there are 3 other people screaming "CAV!!! DO IT CAV!!! DO IT NOW!!!" down my ear......
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Post Post #145 (isolation #23) » Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:33 am

Post by cavjj »

dicknose wrote:I wish you thought that way more often.


I made a mistake. Get over it. Move on. If you are going to have a pop at least try to form an argument or say something constructive. Kthnx.
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Post Post #147 (isolation #24) » Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:39 am

Post by cavjj »

Its not been a good night for wicked. Been lynched in one game and forced to claim in another, ouch.....
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Post Post #181 (isolation #25) » Tue Aug 02, 2011 3:41 am

Post by cavjj »

whilst wrote:
cavjj & DarkClaymore
DarkClaymore wrote:As for the "making him feel that someone agrees with him" part. I'm fairly sure I stated I hate D1 way back at the beginning before he even expressed any desire to end it. I just did what I wanted to. I could easily be in his place and hammer for the sake of ending D1. The only reason I wouldn't have done it if I were him is that many players were against doing it so soon. I suppose he refused to seriously consider this fact and it's obvious that he should get all this attention for what he did.

We could just ask him if he did consider it.
cavjj
-- did you consider the fact that most people were against ending D1 before you hammered?[/area]

Not really. I remembered someone (although admittedly I thought it was more than one person) had expressed a desire to end or expressed dislike for D1. In hindsight I was thinking of DC's comment, which I have just re-read, but wasn't away it was his comment specifically.
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Post Post #196 (isolation #26) » Tue Aug 02, 2011 6:27 am

Post by cavjj »

IAI - You seem to keep saying that you suspect me and you've not said why.

I reckon you're scum backtracking and trying to start a bandwagon due to my actions D1 in case I don't get lynched without your help....
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Post Post #218 (isolation #27) » Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:39 am

Post by cavjj »

1. Dark Claymore
2. IAI
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Post Post #246 (isolation #28) » Wed Aug 03, 2011 3:52 am

Post by cavjj »

singersigner wrote:
NobodySpecial replaces Wickedestjr! Please welcome him with warm arms!


Image

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENKXfxGieGw
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Post Post #267 (isolation #29) » Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:40 pm

Post by cavjj »

”Dark Claymore"1.
Umm... I haven't seen anything good yet. Still, I believe it is worth observing. Well, now maybe not since I already came and said this. It's just that Abel put too much effort into searching for why I'm scum, so I felt like I'm doing more harm than good atm.

Didn’t like this. Didn’t like this at all. The point of the game, from a town point of view is to search for scum. We will all suspect townies throughout the course of the game, but those players should be convinced of your alleged PT role and dissuaded from the lynch via argument, not just “You must be scum because I say I’m town and you’re still suspecting me"
2.
That's why I believe many times weaker reasons are better to follow than the loud ones.

??? Why stay quiet then? Surely that way of playing would mean you would have to play in a more active role? Observing doesn’t (necessarily) help the town, especially when you add in this quote:

My point is. It's not like individuals don't hit scum in their speculating, it's just, when we need to lynch together, people just prefer to vote in agreement with others so that we can actually lynch someone. So in that example, people would have voted X because "everybody talk about him and seem to suspect him" rather than Y because "no one really seems to strongly suspect him".

In fact that was from the same post! So we all have to agree on our lynch, but you don’t want to join in the discussion just yet and keep observing? I’ll just threw in this little beaut by the way:
All you do by being too active as town is becoming night kill target.

So you say, discuss the lynch but be quiet. Eh? How many times can you contradict yourself in two posts?
Inactives aren't helping anyone. If anything, they only cause harm
.
And again

3.
Yeah, sorry for sleeping while the thread is the most active.

No. Sorry. Not good enough. I am also away from the “regular” time zone. While I presume most players in this game are from the States, I’m from the UK. I’m also asleep when people are most active. Yes that means you can’t often have constant one on one discussions with people because you are both online at the same time, but this shouldn’t contribute towards activeness.
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Post Post #275 (isolation #30) » Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:05 pm

Post by cavjj »

Dark Claymore - to be fair your only realy argument so far seems to be "well it's not my fault you all did this or you all thought that"....
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Post Post #321 (isolation #31) » Thu Aug 04, 2011 11:04 am

Post by cavjj »

DC - you're refusing to answer questions now?
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Post Post #374 (isolation #32) » Fri Aug 05, 2011 3:22 am

Post by cavjj »

whilst wrote:Now we just need a little more from IAI and cavjj and we can make some more progress.


To be fair I don't really know what else you want. I have been clear and concise over my hammer, I have detailed why DC is top of my list, I have not exactly been inactive. If you want a big massive wall post that no-one but yourself will read, then I will be more than happy to oblige when I get home from work but I doubt it will contain the plethora of information you think I may have.
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Post Post #386 (isolation #33) » Fri Aug 05, 2011 5:27 am

Post by cavjj »

Honest Abel wrote:I think going after cavjj is in itself scummy given D1. He's an easy target because he hammered town. I'd like to see cavjj attempt scumhunting, though. He hasn't done too much other than hammer and defend himself.


A fair point, one I won't disagree with as it's essentially true apart from my DC related post which I can't look for right now (I'm on my phone). Again, I don't want anyone to take my inexperience into account but I am still learning all this stuff. I've never played on the internet, read a few games before I came on here and the last time I played was about 4 years ago IRL. Again I stress, I'm not trying to use that as an excuse.

My top two suspects anyway are DC and whilst. The only thing that confuses me about DC is his willingness to roll over and take it, even if he is trying to act as lynchbait. I've already noted my suspicions, if I put him to L-1, all it would take is for IAI to come on overnight and hammer. Although judging by D1's **itstorm, I doubt it.

Nobody Special is very pro-town, maybe too pro-town as if trying to prove a point. I've already had suspicions on you, Abel but you allayed them to be fair and I'm not massively suspicious anymore. And if we're being frank, I can't quite place dicknose.
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Post Post #390 (isolation #34) » Fri Aug 05, 2011 6:16 am

Post by cavjj »

Question. DC - what are you hoping to have achieved by the end of D2?
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Post Post #392 (isolation #35) » Fri Aug 05, 2011 6:29 am

Post by cavjj »

So you're willing to sacrifice yourself if town sees whilst as scum later on? How's that working for you? Doesn't look like its been the greatest strategic move IMO.
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Post Post #413 (isolation #36) » Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:03 am

Post by cavjj »

DC - Would you do anything different if someone put you to L-1?
Abel - How certain are you of DC being scum and how likely would you say that he's just a really really bad townie?
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Post Post #416 (isolation #37) » Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:12 am

Post by cavjj »

I appreciate that IAI is still about 16 hours away from a prod but he hasn't announced himself v/la to my knowledge and some contribution really wouldn't go a miss. His posting does seem to reveal him as the type that would sit back and watch as much as he could.

Abel the only reason why I asked that, is that in a strange sort of way I'm starting to see where he's coming from. I think he's gone about it totally the wrong way and I personally wouldn't play that way, but I think he has pretty much survived a night kill with his D2 play if he survives the lynch.
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Post Post #418 (isolation #38) » Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:14 am

Post by cavjj »

EBWOP - second post was referring to DC. Not sure I made that obvious.
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Post Post #420 (isolation #39) » Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:15 am

Post by cavjj »

EBWOP again - paragraph* not post. Jeez.

I wouldn't. Not yet. I've not voted D2 because there are too many suspects. And I learned my lesson from D1 to be more careful with my vote...
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Post Post #421 (isolation #40) » Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:16 am

Post by cavjj »

I disagree, surviving nightkills is essential if he holds a PR.
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Post Post #424 (isolation #41) » Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:21 am

Post by cavjj »

Honest Abel wrote:If we end up lynching someone other than DarkClaymore, I need to know that he's not going to pull the same hijinks on D3. DC, please do not keep doing the same thing the whole game. We've provided a ton of reasons why it's not a good strategy. It's just not. Move on.



+1.

DC is still my top suspect, but I'm willing him to give me a town tell and I will back off. More willing than two or three pages ago anyway. Whilst would probably be next on my list, but with IAI being so inactive, I would rather push for an IAI lynch over whilst for the time being.
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Post Post #426 (isolation #42) » Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:27 am

Post by cavjj »

Gut instinct on IAI then? No reasoning, no analysis, just feeling?

On gut feeling basis, DC, whilse and IAI are all scum so I'm wrong on one of them.
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Post Post #430 (isolation #43) » Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:32 am

Post by cavjj »

Honest Abel wrote:Are you asking me why IAI?


No I just meant scum or town. The reasons are fairly plain for all to see. As I said, my gut instinct would say all of them were mafia but I couldn't come up with a concrete 100% "THEY ARE DEFINITELY SCUM!" cases.
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Post Post #432 (isolation #44) » Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:53 am

Post by cavjj »

Can someone confirm a vote for IAI now would be L-1 and not a hammer? I just did a quick check but want to make sure. I will be voting IAI but I don't want to go through the D1 fallout again.

FoS:IAI
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Post Post #434 (isolation #45) » Fri Aug 05, 2011 10:08 am

Post by cavjj »

VOTE: I Am Innocent
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Post Post #438 (isolation #46) » Fri Aug 05, 2011 10:35 am

Post by cavjj »

Iai will not vote for himself, neither will yourself. I agree IAI needs to be given a chance. DC was given a chance and I am confident he will give IAI one. My vote also stands.
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Post Post #444 (isolation #47) » Fri Aug 05, 2011 10:47 am

Post by cavjj »

Curious. You've been at L-1 for what must be only half an hour and you magically show up. I appreciate however, even scum are loathe to lie about their circumstances outside of the game.

Unvote: IAI
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Post Post #474 (isolation #48) » Fri Aug 05, 2011 7:51 pm

Post by cavjj »

You have Nobody Special as both not voting and voting for whilst singer :)

So I did, thanks!
~singer
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Post Post #537 (isolation #49) » Sat Aug 06, 2011 11:14 am

Post by cavjj »

Not going to be available for around 24 hours guys. I know it's not quite VLA but thought you all should know.

In answer to Whilst's question about who I would like to see lynched; at the moment IAI and then whilst.
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Post Post #574 (isolation #50) » Sat Aug 06, 2011 9:40 pm

Post by cavjj »

Ahoy guys, had to take a drop off in activity due to a family emergency. That's all been cleared up so here I am.

Next few posts from me will relate to my suspicions of IAI and whilst and a further discussion of my hammer since people are again talking about it. I'll be on here for the next few hours so give me some time to write them.

Also, I am in England so I am just GMT.
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Post Post #578 (isolation #51) » Sun Aug 07, 2011 1:06 am

Post by cavjj »

IAI

I Am Innocent wrote:
Honest Abel wrote:The "vote first and give reasons later" attitude seems useless.

If you say so. But on page 4 with 6 newbies in the game, it can be very beneficial/telling.

I read that as” with 6 newbies in the game, I can get away with having to explain my votes and not get called out on it.”
---------------------------------
Post #215 (http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p3307492) I said that you hadn’t given your reasons for me being top of your scumpile. When there is DC who at the time is acting like a complete tool, Abel who is going massively aggressively pro town with the Inspector Clouseau approach along with a few others who are just coasting through the day, the best argument you can come up with for me is that I joined 2 bandwagons and the hammer. Yet you made no comment whatsoever of my hammer discussion, were you just happy to go along with it, knowing so someone had got rid of a VT and helped your cause as scum or did you just find it beneath you?
--------------------------------
Post 477 http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... &start=475
So in an effort to incriminate me, he lists his argument against BBmolla. 20 pages after he’s been lynched? To tag it up at the end:
“It may surprise Honest Abel and others, but D1 outside of his initial comment, I found him very townie and did not like the wagon on him. I was absent for much of that, hence I never got the chance to move my RVS vote. As soon as I saw what happened, I called the BBmolla/cavjj scumteam (Post 85).

I was obviously wrong about half of that, but the interesting thing is the other half was the hammer vote. Was scum cavjj trying to disprove some suspicion by proving what he knew was a town BBmolla? Definitely a possibility.”

Ooo!! I called the scum team, it was wrong but look at me, I called it!!!!

-------------------------------

IAI has gone all the game being seriously defensive and somehow getting away with it. He goes long periods of time without posting, defends himself and levels his post out with a very small acknowledgement of suspicion. There are very few cognitive projective arguments from IAI. Usually only small comments finished with “noted.” . He’s lurking, not saying enough and he’s scum.
Let’s take a look at IAI’s analytic nature. When he does actually post, they are full of analysis, while at the same time giving very little away. Most of his analysis only goes along with what we already actually know. That we should suspect player x or player y. Then when something comes up that actually needs analysing, he comes up with this gem:

N1, have no idea scumhunter was the choice. He came off as very null D1, so not sure what scum was thinking.


How can you be so dismissive?

------------------------------

VOTE: I Am Innocent

I am off for lunch, I will post my whilst stuff later today
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Post Post #584 (isolation #52) » Sun Aug 07, 2011 3:01 am

Post by cavjj »

I will not be voting for you D2 whilst. I am more concerned with IAI.

Lol yes you can have my DC thoughts after I have posted my thoughts on yourself.

One quick point without regard to the amount of activity in the thread. As you say,
You expect people to honor your reason (and naturally, we will) then you should really be open to honoring IAI's reasons.


I wasn't really referring to him saying he would have a busy few days although I admit I missed that when he said it. Fair enough, my request was indeed honoured (thanks guys) and as you says IAI's request should be honoured as well.

I agree and I would like to offer my apologies to IAI for making a point of it when it wasn't really fair.
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Post Post #630 (isolation #53) » Sun Aug 07, 2011 7:48 pm

Post by cavjj »

I Am Innocent wrote:Post 570 (dicknose)

"I just want to say, in regards to IAI's activity, that until recently he had fewer posts than singer, which is too few I think. That was my only problem."

I believe I had more posts than the IC/IC replacee combined. But no mention there...

**************

Post 571:

"IAI has a bad argument against Abel and some bad defenses in the subsequent discussion. He goes back and forth on several things, such as Bbmolla and his scumhunting methods. Also, so we're clear, are you saying one more mislynch before to mylo or one mislynch in total?"

Last thing first, yes a mislynch puts us a 4-2, and that would be enough for MyLo (and a successful NK would make it LyLo).

Please elaborate on the bad defenses. I want to know specifically what you have an issue with, esp since I went from only getting suspicion because of my post count from you in 570 to the scummiest player in your eyes per 572 with a vote in 573...

****************

Post 572 (dicknose)

"So whilst, cav, iai from scum to scummiest, but I'd also be okay with a darky vote."

Post 573 (dicknose)

"Unvote. Vote: Innocent."

*****************

While we're at it dicknose, why did you not answer my question in post 478?



You've just proved half my argument with that post........
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Post Post #631 (isolation #54) » Sun Aug 07, 2011 7:52 pm

Post by cavjj »

EBWOP was meant to quote #626
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Post Post #642 (isolation #55) » Mon Aug 08, 2011 5:46 am

Post by cavjj »

Nope. Unless something drastic happens that changes my mind, I wouldn't have thought my vote will change until I am lynched, or IAI is lynched. That doesn't mean I won't keep looking at other people though......
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Post Post #645 (isolation #56) » Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:37 am

Post by cavjj »

The former. I would be surprised if IAI wasn't scum. Having lost two VT's yesterday, we have to lynch a scum today or D3 is going to be tough.
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Post Post #647 (isolation #57) » Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:44 am

Post by cavjj »

Aren't they essentially the same thing? Few people would vote unless they had looked at every player?
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Post Post #649 (isolation #58) » Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:54 am

Post by cavjj »

Fair enough, didn't think about it like that.
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Post Post #652 (isolation #59) » Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:03 am

Post by cavjj »

8/2? 8/5?
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Post Post #653 (isolation #60) » Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:04 am

Post by cavjj »

Sorry, dates, keep forgetting they're month/day over in the States.
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Post Post #655 (isolation #61) » Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:12 am

Post by cavjj »

DC - surely who people think will be killed over night will depend on their suspected scum team?
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Post Post #657 (isolation #62) » Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:28 am

Post by cavjj »

Hi guys, quick note.

I don't know how aware you are of the current rioting in London. This rioting is now within about 12 miles of my house. The family has made the decision that should it get any worse we will be leaving tonight. Should that be the case I will PM singer for a replacement. We're still here at the minute but I may not be too active. This was also the family issue I had the other evening and the reason for my limited activity over the past few days.

For the minute I am still in the game and the activity seems to be moving to the opposite end of the city but I thought you should all be aware.

Cheers Cav
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Post Post #660 (isolation #63) » Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:27 am

Post by cavjj »

Abel, you were saying last page to analyse everyone in an effort to successful lynch the two scum, surely caring who dies is a pretty big issue?
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Post Post #663 (isolation #64) » Mon Aug 08, 2011 10:22 am

Post by cavjj »

What makes you think so? If you haven't hit the scum team you could be quite safe. I don't think a scum team including dicknose would lynch you. You haven't really noted suspicion on him as much as the others.
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Post Post #665 (isolation #65) » Mon Aug 08, 2011 10:31 am

Post by cavjj »

I agree, I don't think it's a particularly useful road to go down, just a quick discussion while the topic was out there.

Abel, who are you most convinced as being town?
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Post Post #695 (isolation #66) » Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:07 am

Post by cavjj »

Would the claim really change anyones mind?
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Post Post #700 (isolation #67) » Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:23 am

Post by cavjj »

If we have all the time in the world IAI also has all the time in the world to think about his claim....
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Post Post #703 (isolation #68) » Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:51 am

Post by cavjj »

I think everyone should make clear their intentions with regards to IAI being at L-1.

I personally, am not too fussed about a claim. IAI is the sort of player that will have it all figured out and will mean very little. If he does take the claim and claims VT I will however be very impressed at the bravery. It is very unlikely I will be withdrawing my vote in the current circumstances, claim or no claim.
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Post Post #707 (isolation #69) » Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:05 am

Post by cavjj »

I'm not trying to prove you wrong. I'm just saying I can't envisage any claim that would change my mind.
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Post Post #709 (isolation #70) » Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:10 am

Post by cavjj »

Ouch. You don't care about me changing my mind. What if I did it before whilst, DC or NS hammered?

You and dicknose seem remarkably keen to get an IAI lynch done quickly.
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Post Post #712 (isolation #71) » Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:38 am

Post by cavjj »

Slightly melodramatic but a fair point.
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Post Post #725 (isolation #72) » Tue Aug 09, 2011 3:45 pm

Post by cavjj »

Honest Abel wrote:UNVOTE: I Am Innocent
VOTE: cavjj

Yeah that just happened. I cannot picture a townie saying a claim won't change his mind no matter what it is or how good it is. I can easily picture scum saying this.


Image

No doubt dicknose will change now just because you did.
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Post Post #730 (isolation #73) » Tue Aug 09, 2011 3:57 pm

Post by cavjj »

Abel. If you're so concerned about the claim AND what I said, why not wait until the claim was forced on IAI before unvoting? You easily could have got it.
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Post Post #732 (isolation #74) » Tue Aug 09, 2011 4:01 pm

Post by cavjj »

What? Really? You go all game suspecting him and then you come out with one of the greatest u-turns in history?

I thought you of everyone on here had more nouse about you...
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Post Post #734 (isolation #75) » Tue Aug 09, 2011 4:10 pm

Post by cavjj »

And when it eventually comes out that IAI is scum and I'm not?
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Post Post #735 (isolation #76) » Tue Aug 09, 2011 4:18 pm

Post by cavjj »

Bah its 4.15 in the morning here and I'm in work at 8. Anything you wanna level at me is gonna have to wait til my lunch hour tomorrow
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Post Post #751 (isolation #77) » Wed Aug 10, 2011 4:55 am

Post by cavjj »

Honest Abel wrote:But you're right, he did say that you're scummier than cavjj in #745. You quoted the wrong post.

whilst is allowed to change his mind. A few people have, including me.


But not changing your mind isn't?
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Post Post #755 (isolation #78) » Wed Aug 10, 2011 5:02 am

Post by cavjj »

Well guys, I'm gonna be on here for an hour exactly then I have to be toddling off. I'll be back between 5-6pm Eastern Time (I think 10-11pm GMT). That's my timescale if you want action tonight.
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Post Post #757 (isolation #79) » Wed Aug 10, 2011 5:04 am

Post by cavjj »

But anyway. This is total BS Abel. D2, you question my hammer, then you defend me, then you say you wern't really defending me, then you go after IAI, then while I am also going after IAI you switch because I don't want to change me mind.

If I get lynched for that reason, it's a BS lynch and you know it. You spend 2 days building up cases against everyone, whilst, IAI, DC, and yes me and the reason you switch is because I'm voting for the same person as you.
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Post Post #758 (isolation #80) » Wed Aug 10, 2011 5:06 am

Post by cavjj »

In fact the more I think about it, I think when NS didn't show up and you think you were going to lose the lynch you swapped knowing the support you'd get.
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Post Post #784 (isolation #81) » Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:40 pm

Post by cavjj »

1.If IAI claimed cop and said that he investigated you N1 and said you were town?
2.If he said he investigated you and said you were scum?
3.If he said he investigated me and said I was town?
4.If he said he investigated whilst and said he was town.

For all those questions my first thing would be to analyse the validity of the claim. Does anyone else counterclaim for example, are there any other reasons why his claim may or may not be true. Let's remember that at the minute IAI is nowhere near a position of needing a claim considering the bandwagon has changed so dramatically.

The simple answer to all four of the questions is that if it came out he was lying, I saw something or someone convinced me he was lying on his claim I'd press even harder than I have for his lynch.

All these answers assume that we, collectively as town, accept IAI's claim as cop.


1. Depends on the reaction of other players. However since we believe IAI in this hypothosis then I would probably admit I was wrong about my vehement belief of his scuminess. This would have to be backed up by some hard evidence mind.
2. If IAI genuinely was the cop, this would not happen. If it did I would protest my innocence and I'm sure IAI would press for the lynch. It would be up to the town to decide who would then be going, and I suspect it would be me.
3. Apart from that brief spell, you've never really or consistently been top of my scum list. You seem town to me, I would be inclined to believe him.
4.Again if we believe IAI is the cop and whilst is confirmed town by IAI then my scum readings go out the window. Because my two top suspects have been confirmed town in this scenario, I would have a serious re-read of NS and DC who would be third and fourth respectively on my list at the moment.
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Post Post #788 (isolation #82) » Wed Aug 10, 2011 1:30 pm

Post by cavjj »

whilst wrote: I hope we get this right


:roll:
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Post Post #791 (isolation #83) » Wed Aug 10, 2011 1:41 pm

Post by cavjj »

Dicknose, do you want to wait for Abel or are you certain you want my claim?
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Post Post #793 (isolation #84) » Wed Aug 10, 2011 1:45 pm

Post by cavjj »

I'm off to bed in 10 minutes, if I've not heard anything of dicknose, I won't claim till I've heard from Abel in the morning.
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Post Post #795 (isolation #85) » Wed Aug 10, 2011 1:58 pm

Post by cavjj »

Well done guys.

I am a cop. The person I investigated was a jailkeeper, ergo we have no doctor.
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Post Post #797 (isolation #86) » Wed Aug 10, 2011 2:04 pm

Post by cavjj »

Unfortunately, said jailkeeper isn't here to corroborate my story. Rather than any analysis of the claim, you think the more important factor here is the hammer? Could you have missed the point anymore?
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Post Post #801 (isolation #87) » Wed Aug 10, 2011 2:11 pm

Post by cavjj »

I wanted to get that in quickly before I got hammered. Look, if I were scum, how risky is it to actually call the PRs. If you're sensible, you'll wait to see if anyone counter claims. If someone does then go ahead and lynch me. But I tell you what, I guarantee anyone that says "no wait I'm cop" will turn out to be scum in the end.

So if you wanna "lynch at will" go ahead. What a great move that will be. I'm going to bed, If I'm still alive when I wake up then I'll deal with it in the morning.

Dicknose, I will not tell you for the sake of the town. I believe IAI is scum through reads, not through investigation during the night. So at the moment, I will only confirm I did not investigate IAI.
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Post Post #807 (isolation #88) » Wed Aug 10, 2011 2:32 pm

Post by cavjj »

I just failed so hard

Well done guys. Good luck to my partner and the rest of the town

VOTE: cavjj
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Post Post #810 (isolation #89) » Wed Aug 10, 2011 2:36 pm

Post by cavjj »

Can't believe I didn't read that before I claimed. Just checked it now since you said about innocence/guilt...

I think due to whilsts unvote, I havent hammered myself..........
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Post Post #812 (isolation #90) » Wed Aug 10, 2011 2:40 pm

Post by cavjj »

Can finally get off to bed now then. Will watch with interest all. Good luck.
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Post Post #814 (isolation #91) » Wed Aug 10, 2011 2:43 pm

Post by cavjj »

No.

Now my role is out, my only duty is to my team mate. And I think with that feck up the best thing I can do is stay quiet.

My vote stands and this will be my last post. Cheers all.
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Post Post #817 (isolation #92) » Wed Aug 10, 2011 2:47 pm

Post by cavjj »

Scrub that last post bit, but I will not post any more game related info.

I suppose as I haven't been lynched then I am still subject to the rules.
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Post Post #822 (isolation #93) » Wed Aug 10, 2011 2:53 pm

Post by cavjj »

Lol.
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Post Post #858 (isolation #94) » Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:18 pm

Post by cavjj »

This is actually painful to watch.

DC what makes you think it was me who investigated? At no point have I said whether I was goon or rolecop.

Ooooooo so many possibilities.
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Post Post #859 (isolation #95) » Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:23 pm

Post by cavjj »

DC also how confident are you that there is a jailer? Maybe it was BS for my claim. Or maybe it wasnt......
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Post Post #861 (isolation #96) » Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:09 pm

Post by cavjj »

Lol! Maybe it was the best logic I could think of in a pressure situation. I tell you what though, the most important sentence in that post is incorrect. Which sentence that is you'll have to suss out.

Town are screwed..........
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Post Post #865 (isolation #97) » Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:33 am

Post by cavjj »

Because you have effectively entered D3 with no night kill to worry about? Duh!
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Post Post #881 (isolation #98) » Thu Aug 11, 2011 6:05 am

Post by cavjj »

For what its worth I think you should all lynch Abel ;)
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Post Post #887 (isolation #99) » Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:22 am

Post by cavjj »

Cheers guys. Good luck all. Thanks for the mod singer.
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Post Post #1539 (isolation #100) » Fri Sep 02, 2011 7:31 pm

Post by cavjj »

Theres two things I have to say first. Molla, I can really only apologise for the hammer. I wanted to see what I could get away with. Genuinely the time between my post saying i might vote, and the hammer, was myself having an internal ethical argument and analysis about what would happen D2 if I did it. Sorry dude.

Also, Abel. Dude, you are just a fucking machine. Seriously. How do you do all that shit? It got to the point where I'd post a mistake and 2 minutes later re-read what I'd put and go "shit, Abel will spot that.

I have no qualms posting the QT, although I would rather wait until IAI gets here and agrees just because....... drumroll...... of the code we used N1.

Which leads me to the claim. I feel slightly vindicated on this because I was correct in my prediction of PR's at the time of the claim. We had a jailkeeper, which I knew because IAI got no result N1 and I was certain we had no other PR's. This was my first game, I just assumed that because it was a mafia
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I basically tried to play a lot more dumb than I am. I had this big spreadsheet with voting patterns, analysis of the maths in the likelihood of PR's and other titbits.

I'll give my personal feedback in a bit cos I'm pressed for time but in short, Abel, you were brilliant, seriously hope I play with you again at some point.
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Post Post #1540 (isolation #101) » Fri Sep 02, 2011 7:34 pm

Post by cavjj »

IAI did keep posting his thoughts in the QT after I was lynched. One thing he did say was that he wished I'd just gone away after revealing. There was a reason why I stayed around. Some of you noticed that you had effectively ented D3 without a nightkill. If you had carried on that way, I would have gone away and suddenly appeared to hammer when someone was put to L-1 but Abel (again) noticed I could do that. So IAI that's why I stayed around. I don't think I gave anything away but people can judge for themselves now they know the full facts.
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Post Post #1542 (isolation #102) » Fri Sep 02, 2011 7:38 pm

Post by cavjj »

Also, singer thankyou very much for the mod, you were fantastic :)
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Post Post #1580 (isolation #103) » Wed Sep 07, 2011 3:27 am

Post by cavjj »

IAI thanks for still communicating in the QT by the way. Obviously couldn't ask you to keep doing so, so thanks for that.

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