The Children of Húrin Mafia (GREAT REVIVAL)

[VitaminR]

Right...

Vote: Katsuki

[VitaminR]

Vote: Kanye

MoS, Ludi, and Furc are probably town. MOI maybe too, he makes some good points. MoS and Ludi because their reactions seem very similar to mine so far, and Furc's reaction to being wagonned felt sincere.

Spy's not a bad vote either. His calling for a quicklynch is off.

[VitaminR]

Maybe it's not kanye, actually.

Unvote, Vote: PeregrineV

I didn't like this useless random vote:

Vote: Gut

Purely a gut vote.

And this is very easy without really contributing anything:

I beleive crap like that, since it's a free-form game where anything is possible.

@Gandalf- If you don't know "how to win", why would you think you are town?

And just so I get it, you breadcrumbed your role as "I don't know what I'm doing" and you feel you share a role with Andrius because why again? Quotes would help me "get it".

I think scum was hoping for a weirdo Gandalf lynch, and that scum was on his wagon.

Unvote.
Vote: Kayne

[VitaminR]

LordChronos wagon feels lazy. I feel slightly better about Spy, although the princess shtick is getting annoying.

[VitaminR]

Lazy? I'm the only vote on it.

Um, no.

@Vitamin- Why do you think my RVS vote was serious. In your opinion, did anyone else have a useless random vote? Or was thiers more useful than mine? By what order of magnitude? Where they funny?

I never said your RVS vote was serious. It clearly wasn't. What I didn't like was that you made it completely obvious that it was a useless random vote by basing it off an obvious joke. You took all the potential for pressure out of it.. It's a minor thing, but it can be a scum tell.

LordChronos's big post on everything so far felt very scummy in a way I can't quite put my finger on. He might not be a bad lynch.

This is lazy and the town reads are a little too obvious to my mind:

Read up. Furcolow can be for vigging.

gandalf reeks of scum smell.

Ludi and MoI are likely town.

Vote: gandalf

-Moon

Tell your partner he's wrong.

Unvote, vote: Katsuki

Why Katsuki?

Chrono sure used a lot of words to say very little. Even more than when the princesses all get together at the beautiful princess club.

Unvote, Vote: Chrono

Exactly this feeling is what I meant. He's also really asking a lot of questions that seem designed to sound town but aren't really contributing anything.

Maybe a switch is in order.

Unvote, Vote: LordChronos

[VitaminR]

Also,

FOS: mockingjaye

. That Kanye vote felt very convenient. You're making a post seem significant that actually isn't really to allow you to hop onto the Kanye wagon.

[VitaminR]

UNVOTE, VOTE: VITAMINR

Wrong.

[VitaminR]

Well, Katsuki is town.

Gut, please explain why you think Katsuki is scum.

[VitaminR]

Vitamin, I think you are in the minority here with saying that Katsuki is town especially after that rampage over a little bit of pressure from MoI. Why is Katsuki town to you?

The emotional reaction is more consonant with townKats, and I never really saw the case against him to begin with. Also, I had a similar reaction to MoI in a different game, so I can sort of relate.

Is this based on the replace-out request? If so explain how scum don’t replace out under pressure.

See above. Having played with Kats face-to-face, this is my intuition about it.

It's basically this:

Kat's town and that "replacement" was pure irritation that I'd bet my life is from town.

Your iso is full of weird contradictions. You say that Kanye might not be a bad lynch, but when Mockingjaye votes Kanye you say that vote was incredibly opportunistic? Does that in your eyes mean that Mockingjaye is looking for an easy vote? Is he bussing Kanye? Is Kanye's scumminess in your eyes independent of Mockingjaye's scumminess?

First of all, my iso is not full of weird contradictions. YOUR FACE is full of weird contradictions.

But anyway.

I thought Kanye was a reasonable vote on the basis of what had been posted up until that point. Then I changed my mind. But that doesn't really matter. Mockingjaye's vote just seemed to make a whole lot out of very little by dissecting one post to death. It didn't feel sincere, but more like it was an excuse to join a growing wagon. That's scummy independently of how I feel about Kanye. I don't think it says much in the way of how they are associated. I could see a scumpartner do that sort of thing to be part of a bus and I could see scum do it to join a townie lynch. It's more to do with the fact that the reasoning felt insincere.

Also, with regards to the Lord Chronos vote, you make the same move by stating the wagon is lazy, but you go on and vote Chronos anyway after his post uses a lot of words to say very little. Why?

I'm having trouble seeing how this is weird to you. Maybe if you only read my iso and don't look at the context. When I said the Chronos wagon was lazy, he had like one post or something and the reasoning for the two votes on Chronos

was

weak (it was based on his apparent avoidance of the game, but that's a very weak tell in my book). Then he posted some scummy shit and I voted him on the basis of that.

Vitamin: I disagree with your opinion that the post of Kanye's that I analyzed is insignificant. I find it VERY significant.

Meh. It was sort of aggressive paranoia without justification, but town does that too. You have to relate it to what kind of player kanye is.

Wisp: Vitamin changed his mind about Kanye after Kanye originally posted Post 227/ISO 16, which could be why he takes issue with my choosing the post that changed his mind and made him think Kanye was town as the post that convinced me Kanye was scum. (I'm presuming here, Vitamin, so if I'm wrong, tell me. Also, as it was the post that appears to have changed your mind about Kanye, why do you find it so insignificant?)

That's sort of right, yeah. The aggressive paranoia read sincere to me, I guess. Dissecting it again now it doesn't seem that significant, but that's what it was.

Dekes and Spy are town, I think.

[VitaminR]

- For starters, post #228. He digs up a random vote to use as a reason to suspect PeregrineV, and ignored the much more useless random vote by Mastermind of Sin. I can understand finding a random vote suspicious, I was given grief myself the only time I ever used a die roll for that. MoS does that every game, but if VitaminR finds that sort of thing suspicious, I'd think he'd at least mention it. Then the explanation in post #359 is even worse. He says the vote was suspicious because using a joke reason took all potential pressure away from it. What? Most random votes I've seen have made up reasons, such as the player's avatar wearing a bowler hat, if they have any reasons at all. This is perfectly normal and accepted, and does not reduce the effectiveness of the votes at all. VitaminR should know better, and the way he singles out PeregrineV after Will-o-wisp already called attention to the same vote just reeks.

First of all, the random vote was a pretty minor thing that I only went on about because PeregrineV asked me about it. I just feel scum is a bit more likely to call attention to the randomness of their vote, because it's safer. But this was pretty early in the game. I just wanted to put some pressure on PeregrineV for what I saw as lazy votes. Don't try to construe this into something really meaningful.

Also, I've seen MoS cast a die roll vote in a dozen other games. It's a null tell, and it's uninteresting.

[VitaminR]

Meh.

[VitaminR]

Unvote, Vote: PeregrineV

I can get behind a Peregrine wagon. It's better than the alternatives and he magically shows up in a big way just when he's being attacked and responds only with condescension towards Feysal's inconsistency. Not really a town response, IMO.

[VitaminR]

Great 12th post. Are you lurking scum too, or is that just me?

Nothing magical. I read and post content. No additional content, no post.

Sure, I'm not the most active player, but how is that relevant? Fine, the fact that you showed up just then is probably not supersignificant. It's certainly not a major reason for voting you. I'm voting you mainly because I didn't have a good feeling about you initially, I didn't think your reaction to the wagon was particularly town, and none of the alternative wagons make me very happy.

So, since you are agreeing that Feysal is inconsistent, what should my response be? And how was is condescending to point it out?

People change their minds. It's a very easy thing to pick at. Instead of answering Feysal's productively, you just sort of harped on about him changing his mind. Felt like an easy attempt to discredit him.

And please describe your special relationship with Feysal. You know he's town.

Um, I don't know absolutely sure that he's town, but it's mainly based on Kats, who I think was town for his response to MoI (I've talked about this before).

As a matter of fact, Feysal was up to 7 voters at one time, none of which was Gut, and you asked or addressed none of the voters.

So, in addition to your Feysal relationship, the whole town would like to hear about your Gut relationship.

I happen to know Gut quite well and the Kats read seemed unlike what I would expect from him. So that's why I asked (and I'd still like an answer).

[VitaminR]

Wraith, any large wagon in any big game on Day 1 is going to have people who you suspect and people who haven't posted much. Why don't you try giving actual reasons as to why a kanye or Feysal wagon (neither of which were really that strongly motivated) is better instead of vaguely trying to cast aspersions on it? (Like it's meaningful that Gut and Dekes haven't posted that much. Is their opinion no longer valid because of it? What about yours then? You're at least a semi-lurker if Gut is.)

[VitaminR]

VitR made uncharacteristically many accusations (and not particularly good ones either ("slushy snowballs" if you get the reference (which you probably don't))). He's scums.

Do we have to do this again? WHY? You can't read me. I know this, you know this. Stop just thinking I'm scum for no real reason when you know this.

[VitaminR]

Serious question - is there anyone who can read you? I ask because CES and I are on pretty much opposite spectrums of the Mafiascum rainbow. You gave me very similar reasons in Invictus when I suspected you.

Patrick and chamber, to some extent. Though for them I seem to be easier to read when I'm scum. There's very few people who can get an accurate town read on me (maybe Fate and Faraday a bit). But I tend to attract way more false negatives (inaccurate scum reads) than false positives (inaccurate town reads). *shrug*

[VitaminR]

Damn it, chamber.

But CES, it takes you a long time and you usually think I'm scum initially, unless you're scum yourself.

[VitaminR]

Faraday, if you can read me, GIVE ME EXTRA SPECIAL POWERS.

[VitaminR]

I agree with MoI on Feysal. He has only a limited incentive to work with us. Also, I was kinda right with my Kats read.

[VitaminR]

[quote="In [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 0#p3481500]Do I need more evidence? MoI, look who toed the line super quick: VitaminR, aka I'm just useless enough that I'm not going to be lynched even though I really need to be dead, and Andrius, aka I dont even have a role guyz and that whole business about flavor and gandalf has been put into the rubbish bin and I didn't even pretend to blink an eye at it.[/quote]
Screw you, chamberlain.

[VitaminR]

Agree with Spy. I see no reason to say no to an extra de facto town controlled kill. Added pluses here are that 1) Feysal's one of those players to whom helping the town comes naturally and 2) I see no reason why his win condition need be mutually exclusive with ours - odds are he'll win simply by surviving long enough.

I guess he's not as bad as an actual SK but we need to really dictate his kill every night (and this makes his kill much more vulnerable to outside messing with). If we give him a list, he'll just kill those that are also on his list and we have no idea of whether his list is town- or scum-sided or balanced. PLUS, he's claimed non-town-aligned and could EASILY be lying about important details of his claim, e.g. whether he needs to survive, what kind of killing/recruiting abilities he has, etc.

[VitaminR]

You're concerned with their (there's two of them) overall ability to read you, but not their reasons for thinking you're scum?
I'm not sure that that is a scumtell or a towntell, but it's odd.

(I expect it's the type of oddity that passes for a scumtell in the MS community. I'm not sure whether it is one, but if it gets scum lynched...)

Oh this is interesting. Last game I said that to CES (Open 318 - in which we were both town), my most prominent attacker made EXACTLY that comment and he was scum. Not trying to spin this into a scumtell, but odd does not equal scummy and it worries me that you don't appear to be able to look at my behaviour without bias when you have only been suspecting me for a few pages.

Though for them I seem to be easier to read when I'm scum.

I'm not sure, but I think that technically speaking, readability has to be independent of alignment, almost by definition.

What I meant was that I think I'm pretty obvious to some people when I'm scum. I'm almost never obviously town to the same people (i.e. they never trust me).

He probably has a list of role names, so he doesn't know which players are "on his list", meaning any kill is equally good if it helps him survive, unless people start claiming role names.

Fair enough. I guess I'm just paranoid he might be hiding parts of his role.

[VitaminR]

Vote: Dekes

, btw. Could also go for a Herodotus wagon.

Btw, CES, tell chamber that I understand his suspicion of me, though it makes me sad, because I feel that he has a better impression of my townplay than warranted (I feel his suspicion of me here and in the Invitational is in part based on weak votes of mine - his impression that I don't do this face-to-face so much is correct, but my forum play is different since you're forced to vote quicker and it still takes me a while to develop decent suspicions). I'm usually a bit overwhelmed by large games, and I try to compensate for this by being too confident about weak suspicions. Also, tell him I swear that I'm not doing the hand-wavey thing.

[VitaminR]

@VitaminR:
I've suspected you since page 15, though I don't see the relevance of that.
And I wasn't using the point to evaluate your alignment - I have done and will do that separately - but to convince others to join the wagon on you.

What I meant was that you haven't been suspecting me for long. I guess I'm just surprised at how you're picking at the things you say like everything I say is scummy. It seems opportunistic and doesn't really give me the feeling that you're continuously re-evaluating how valid your read is (which you should be doing if you're town, especially because you're wrong). You called me "guaranteed scum," which is just patently ridiculous, just on the basis of how little I've posted (something I always do in large games, btw, before you try to spin that into a scumtell) and how little you know of my playstyle.

Actually, here's a question for you. Are you usually this confident about reads that are wrong? This is a serious question, though it may sound condescending. Could you show me a game in which you were town and latched on to someone in a similar way even though you were wrong?

Why Dekes? And, I'm sure you could .

MoI made a valid point about him and his response (which I was waiting to see) wasn't very convincing.

[VitaminR]

What I meant was that you haven't been suspecting me for long. I guess I'm just surprised at how you're picking at the things

I

say like everything I say is scummy.

Corrected so it makes sense.

[VitaminR]

Herodotus:

@Magna: you want guaranteed scum?
Then vote for VitaminR.

[VitaminR]

But anyway.

I haven't said that everything you say is scummy. Most of your posts don't give me any indication of your alignment and I haven't mentioned them. Please explain why you would claim this.

I just get the impression that, since you've declared suspicion of me, you've been trying to pick apart my posts/behaviour more than is really reasonable (e.g. my response to CES, my stance towards Feysal). But that's just my feeling about it.

Where did I call you guaranteed scum on the basis of how little you've posted? You're putting words into my posts. I did comment on your lack of expressed reads, but that was after I voted you or used the phrase "guaranteed scum", and that's different from a lurking accusation.

That's not what I meant. I meant that just considering how little I've posted I find it hard to believe that you can think I'm guaranteed scum.

I'm not concerned about any condescension in your first question, but it's a misleading question because it asks me to assume I'm wrong. On the second question, I feel like you're trying to undermine my argument by attacking my scumhunting record. When I replace into games, I typically have accurate reads, so yes, I'm confident. Sometimes I develop inaccurate reads, but I'm open to changing them if there is a reason.

I'm not trying to undermine you. I just want an example of where you were wrong about such an apparently strong read from the get-go, so I can evaluate your attack in a larger context. This is purely to help me establish a read on you. If you're worried about looking like a bad scumhunter, you can give me a bunch of examples where you were right to offset it.

[VitaminR]

ooba makes a good point about Sun and Moon.

Yeah, today's lynch should be VitR.

This is getting stupid. I'm having a hard time believing this is sincere. Is chamber even really there this time?

[VitaminR]

Whatever, it's not like I didn't consider that possibility. But thanks, CES. It's just that chamber wasn't part of the hydra last time (CES pretended he was) and that I'm surprised that chamber would have a strong scum read on me and be wrong about it (at least face-to-face, he's usually right). But I don't think he'd fake that as scum at all (CES might).

Heh. Your meta argument about S&M is good too.

I just think ooba's interpretation is just as valid as yours. Trying to read too much into lurking patterns is very easy.

[VitaminR]

On a maybe too personal note, has anything happened recently to put you on edge? You seem uncharacteristicly non-charismatic.

If we are going to get personal, I can maybe get a little frustrated with CES. I feel like I'm pretty slow to vote him (because I'd feel worse about mislynching him than I would for other people) and I've defended him in the past, but he doesn't really do either and seems to act as if he can read me with confidence. I had to deal with the same shtick in Open 318 (though that was worse, because his case was purely associative). I guess my hope was that having people who know my playstyle in the game would help me through the early stages of the game, where I can run into trouble in large games.

I'm not -sure- you are scum. At goofbash I was using heavy meta cause we played so many games, if I was able to read you then that's why. I don't actually have a high confidence in my ability to read you in forum mafia, and what I've seen from you does take into consideration how you are in a general sense, but not really your meta, because frankly I don't know what your forum scum meta even looks like. Some of your earlier posts looked a lot like posts I myself made the first time I was scum after returning from a long hiatus. And that's largely what I'm going on.

Sadly, I can't point you to any recent games in which I was scum. I don't even know what my forum scum meta is like now!

I could dig up some old games if you want. I used to be more serious as scum, very much concerned with consistency and building cases.

He might not be a bad lynch.

Why did you add that sentence?

Because that's what I thought at the time. That was just my feeling about his posts.

You took all the potential for pressure out of it.. It's a minor thing, but it can be a scum tell.

I don't really agree with you on the theory here, but that aside, why did you even feel the need to defend this suspicion if it was as minor as you say? Why do you need to qualify it as minor? Why did you add "but it CAN be a scum tell"?

I defended it because PeregrineV asked me about it. But it wasn't really why I was voting PeregrineV (it was just part of a pattern of bad votes), and I felt he was getting the emphasis of my suspicion wrong, so I stressed that it was minor. "It can be a scum tell" was just supposed to mean that I think it's a scum tell for a certain type of player (less experienced, slightly nervous players).

This is lazy and the town reads are a little too obvious to my mind:

Can town not be lazy? Are obvious reads inconsistent with being lazy? What was achieved by saying this?

I have a hard time being prolific in large games, so I feel the need to post more than I normally would (I sometimes get the lurker label attached to me early in a big game and then end up being lynched late in the game just because people never quite look past that). I also feel more of a need to catalogue my suspicions in-thread, because otherwise I forget about them over the course of the game.

Calling that lazy and the town reads obvious was just a way of putting into words my bad gut feeling about the post. But yes, the significance of it depends on the player and their play in the rest of the game.

Also,

FOS: mockingjaye

. That Kanye vote felt very convenient. You're making a post seem significant that actually isn't really to allow you to hop onto the Kanye wagon.

Why did you fos here? What do you feel fosing accomplished? Why not wait and let him make more mistakes if you felt your vote was better served on Lord Chronos?

What I said above, basically. Partly not wanting to forget about it, partly wanting to contribute more.

[VitaminR]

So Faraday has weighed in with the following scum reads (his own, I’m guessing) –

VitaminR – Based more or less on gut.

Ha! I get some solace out of the fact that Faraday can't actually read me. I was obvious in Open 318, that wasn't hard.

[VitaminR]

I'd say if we lynch MoS, then go through his FoSs, we'd have 2-3 scum
(including him!)

Says claimed third party. MOS is the towniest player this game.

Agree with this. MoS is a bad vote.

[VitaminR]

What happened to the Dekes wagon? That was a promising wagon. The Wow wagon is only marginally better than the kanye one. I guess I can see where the Wow suspicions are coming from, but both read as town to me.

[VitaminR]

Get on VitR instead, ooba.

FYI, just repeating the same terrible read is not content.

[VitaminR]

What happened to the Dekes wagon? That was a promising wagon. The Wow wagon is only marginally better than the kanye one. I guess I can see where the Wow suspicions are coming from, but both read as town to me.

this post is scummy as shit, and makes me dislike the kanye wag

vote: vitaminr

Please explain.

[VitaminR]

Why is Wraith is town?

[VitaminR]

Thanks for this, CES and chamber. Seriously, if this happens, it is all on you.

Unvote, Vote: kanye

, btw.

[VitaminR]

I don't even understand what this wagon is about. No one but Herodotus and Gut have offered me ANY reasons at all.

[VitaminR]

ooba, the last minute switches I don't hold against anyone. I probably haven't earned a town read and I'm leaning towards town kanye myself.

[VitaminR]

I know, I should. But it's going to just seal my lynch.

I'm a VT.

[VitaminR]

Btw, chamber, for what it's worth, these are my reads:

Poss scum:
Herodotus - this dude has been voting on me very little (LIKE SOMEONE ELSE I KNOW), but without even having finished the thread, also very reminiscent of Copper in 318 -> scum
Dekes - terrible Pere switch, but somehow got out of it by lurking -> scum
mockingjaye - MoS is right about her, she's been voteparking on kanye, a lot of content, very little intuition - feels like a logical scum player

Not sure:
Wraith - was leaning scum, but don't really know his playstyle very well, tbh, didn't really pay attention to him (mostly think he's scum for being suspicious of me opportunistically)
kanyeknowsbest - shouldn't really have earned a town read, but leaning town because his paranoia strikes sincere
Empking - terrible suspicions of me, but feels like a player I would generally disagree with

Probably harmless:
Andrius - feels town, but not superfamiliar with his playstyle, could be pulling the wool over my eyes
gandalf5166

Never trust:
Feysal
Furcolow

No real idea:
Ellibereth
Espeonage
Will-o-wisp - felt scummy initially, but dropped some town tells that I now forget

Town:
ooba (replacing Magister Ludi) - TOWN, the switch towards Espeonage and the call to sheep is not something scum would do
MagnaofIllusion - TOWN
Mastermind of Sin - town, and don't let Magna tell you otherwise - MoS is always light on logic, high on gut and stubborn
SpyreX - town, unless the whole princess thing was fake, but it was too annoying to be fake really
Sun and Moon - lurking is not a put-on and Amrun feels like town-Amrun to me

[VitaminR]

He could be lying about any old thing. Most drastically, for instance, he could already be scum.

I didn't put you on the list because I was addressing you and I'm pretty sure you're town. I don't think either of you would do this as scum, pick me out early like out and hound me for no real good reason.

Btw, the only way I'm excusing this from either of you is if you're a goddamn lyncher for me or something.

[VitaminR]

Sorry if you flip town vit! You've successfully guilted me into oblivion, so well done if you are scum.

Sorry about that, I'm just frustrated because I kinda feel I never got a chance at this game. It takes me a while to settle into large games and get going. Also, you made my lynch happen by just repeating that I should hang! That doesn't feel great. And part of me was also hoping Faraday or Mina would give me cool powers at some point or something.

[VitaminR]

Damnit - that seals my earlier belief that espeonage was a better lynch.

My list would be the same as yours:
- Hero
- espeonage instead of Dekes
- Mjaye
And probably MoI.

Part of the reason I went espeonage over you was because Hero was on your wagon & positions taken by the others. I mean Mjaye doesn't really mention you at all but places espeon third on her scum list which looked like what scum would do. Plus Hero thinks "espeo is playing poorly"..

If we lose this, I blame the townies who didn't sheep me ..

MoI isn't scum, though. Your espeo read I could get behind, but you're wrong about Magna.

[VitaminR]

Of course you have a scum read on me as well.

[VitaminR]

Love the "two people had different responses, one of them must be scum!"-logic. (Though I'll admit that I didn't have that much to say for a lot of today.)

[VitaminR]

Yeah, it's not like since you haven't had a scum read on me for no real cited reason ever since it started to look there might be a wagon on me at some point.

[VitaminR]

Well, great. I was town.

[VitaminR]

Only 318, but I read her correctly there. I haven't really seen her as scum, so I can't really claim to know her playstyle, I suppose, but I guess I have an intuition about what kind of person she is.

[VitaminR]

You didn't seem to mind when you switched to me, Mr. Oh-but-I-have-a-scum-read-on-VitR-as-well. You're looking a lot like scum who doesn't want to lose his Kanye mislynch.

[VitaminR]

What do you think of the dekes post where he accidentily posted his reads and his reaction post to that?

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. That seemed really town to me. It could have been faked, I guess.

What do you think of empkings hop on to your wagon?

Make Empking explain those hops tomorrow, please. The timing was reaally opportunistic. That said, I have trouble reading Empking, because I always disagree with him. But grill him about it.

[VitaminR]

Though maybe I'm just wrong about Dekes. That was really town.

[VitaminR]

MoS had the same feeling about mockingjaye that I did. He picked at MoI in a way too paranoid way to be scum. I would have expected him to be on more wagons Day 1 as scum (e.g. kanye, Pere).

[VitaminR]

This:

Why isn't KKB dead yet?

Spyrex is giving my partner and I bad vibes through his consistent flaunting of flavor over anything else and the fact that he supports Kanye. Scum would want to hunt third party as it would appear to be town to do so, why they both are so engaged in a Gandalf lynch is beyond me especially when it is quite clear that Gandalf will not be the lynch today.

MoI's Seraph post just shot him up to basically confirmed town in both of your eyes. Also, his post confirms that Andrius and Gandalf are likely telling the truth as not everything about their role is clear which makes a lynch on Gandalf even more unlikely and forced.

- Oversoul

Andrius, how did we go from having a Townier than Turin status to being scum? The posts you quoted are ambivalent and your comments don't seem to point in any direction.

Mist and I have different reads, but we agree that Kanye is likely to be scum.

My top three scumpicks are

Kanye
VitaminR/Ellie
Feysal

I'll let Mist post her top scumpicks.

Why are we letting players who are doing nothing (Ellie and Espeonage) get away with very little participation? Also, I don't understand why Kanye is not trying to move a wagon on someone else yet other people are actively questioning the wagon (Spyrex).

Magna could have easily withheld that information. Instead he chose to post very helpful information that could lead to an explanation on your role (and by proxy, Gandalf's role) and give town a large amount of information. That is why we are confident in Magna town. Why do you even have problem with this if you are forming a voting bloc with him and Ludi?

- Oversoul

My iso says otherwise about the sheeping, MoI. I named those suspicions before Wraith named them. If anything, he is sheeping my reads.

What would be a resposne that is town, MoI? Waiting to be prodded?

Everything that I have said are my actual feelings. You can look at my newbie game for meta for proof that I do give less attention to a game that I feel has been hampered through the early loss of a role. I know you like to use meta as an argument so I don't see why you wouldn't want to look at the game.

I could self meta up and down all day but I don't think it will change your opinions.
Once I get home later this afternoon I will respond to Spyrex's post. I'll end the asshole behavior, I just don't see why Spryex is getting angry over hypocrisy in a game.

- Oversoul

[VitaminR]

His response felt very sincere here.

[VitaminR]

Btw, don't listen to Herodotus and don't let him get away with anything. His predecessor was also pretty scummy.

[VitaminR]

Also, re MOS, posts like this:

On that note, Spyrex makes a GREAT point on why Kanye is town, so thank you for coming at it from a more analytical standpoint. I pretty much cba to do that much research after the hour or so I spent prepping a post in [REDACTED]. Everyone on the Kanye wagon should read Spyrex's post and attempt to refute it. Otherwise they should GTFO and stop being scum/retarded. Anyone who opts to stay on the Kanye wagon without giving a reasonable response to Spyrex's post will become the direct focal point of ire for the rest of the game until they are dead.

No incentive to post this as scum at all.

[VitaminR]

wraith, hero, mockingjaye, empking, 1 of {elli, espeo, WoW} Does that seem reasonable as a scum team?

YESSS

[VitaminR]

I'm sad I'm no longer in this game now. I have a better feel for it now than I did at any point when I was actually alive.

[VitaminR]

Not 100% sure, but I don't get the same nagging feeling. Check up on her meta, I suppose.

Hero, this my gut feeling about the way you kept on me and saw everything I did as scummy. You never let up on me. It didn't feel sincere, and I think you should have had more doubt.

[VitaminR]

Hero might be town, chamber. If he were scum, I doubt he'd be hanging around after my lynch like this. He'd want to no longer be associated with it.

[VitaminR]

ah wait
we lynched vita right?
first line scumthing I mentioned earlier yay.

Only you were wrong, sooo good job?