Open 326: Pick Your Poison (Ende des Speils!)

[Amrun]

VOTE: Auckmid

For great glory!

[Amrun]

Having pretty serious technical diFficulties; will last at most until the 27th. Note the v/la banner.

I WILL be posting within that timeframe but when and how I can't quite predict.

I've been struggling the last few days and finally the technology demons havef ully latched on.

I really haven't read; I'm sorry.

[Amrun]

Oh my God why do I see shitwalls.

Why why whyyyy.

Catching up right now but I can tell I already hate everyone.

[Amrun]

So I had half of a good post and the browser just ate it yayy!

[Amrun]

Contributing to shitwall fest in order to catch up properly, but don't worry. 9.9/10 it never happens again.


-In post 22, Saulres acquiesces immediately with a hint a panic. Scum points.

-Accordingly, glowball pointing this out and voting immediately is a town point. For similar reasons, thunderwielder and Maruchan also get townpoints.

-In post 27, NS makes a very funny joke (seriously, it caught me by surprise), but manages to totally ignore all the lovely content so far. Do not like.

-And then lane0168 absolutely does his best to quash all productive discussion with bunk about knit hats. Very scummy.

-In post 38, saulres shows extreme concern for others' perceptions. Again, glowball gets points for pointing this out immediately as scummy. (Also of note, so does lane a few posts later, and later, NihilisticNinja.)

-I like NihilisticNinja's post 61.

-Knowing how much of an extreme newbie saulres is decreses my scumread on him.

-NS post 70 is a cop out. There is plenty of content to comment on. Also his answer to NN makes no sense. You changed from a vote for a hydra to a vote for me because ... you don't like hydrae?

-Supreme Overlord's Post 72 spends a long time explaining why saulres is scummy only to vote for Maruchan as a seeming joke. This is scummy in and of itself, because it's avoiding laying down a serious vote to be held accountable for, but this could also be a future associative tell if saulres or SO flips scum. (Consequently, Maruchan's next post is spot on.)

-Saulres' post 75 is a rhetoric argument, working very hard to make Maruchan appear scummy.

-A recently ended game (Planet of Hats) says that the amount of effort displayed in Auckmid's post 86 is a town point for him.

-Nobody Special, why is sucking up to the mod a scumtell?

-Post 123 by lane decreases my scumread on him, as this whiteknighting is a move more likely to come from town than scum.

-Do not like glowball's post 133. Glowball, if you think Maruchan is scummier than saulres, YOU SHOULD BE VOTING MARUCHAN. Either way, WHY does this merit an FoS on thunder?

My stance on shitwalls: My eyes glaze over, but I eventually read them. AT SOME POINT in the game, I usually even fully process them, but concision really is pro-town when at all possible.


VOTE: lane0168

I don't understand why no pressure is coming this way yet. I am still stuck on how he saw RVS was ending and there was content being generated and made a quick move to stop that.

I find saulres quite scummy but am still measuring that against his newness.

I do not find Maruchan scummy in the slightest.

[Amrun]

That reminds me something I forgot:

How do you know Marucha isn't playing to win, saulres? Doesn't this rely on him being town.

Supreme Overlord pointed out thunder's hypocrisy. Why did you criticize saulres for not rvs voting If you don't haveout now, when we're well into content?

[Amrun]

Supreme Overlord, please answer my question before you go!

[Amrun]

The last sentence makes no sense.

What I really wanted out of that answer was your stance on Maruchan. I didn't get it. Bzzt.

[Amrun]

Maruchan, you should never aim to belynched unless you are a jester.

Lane, so many things in that paragraph are wrong. The goal of rvs is to get out of it as quickly as possible - and you did your best to extend it. Only scum have interest in doing this.

[Amrun]

RVS and RQS are functionally the same. They are there to generate conversation until someone finds something scummy someone else has done, therefore truly beginning the game.

As it should have been blatantly obvious from my catchup post, I read everything in context. At the time, I was excited that by the top of page 2, a really interesting conversation involving saulres was happening. A lot of good points were being made; we had moved into content.

You came in and didn't comment on anything, simply tried to start an RQS, and not even a potentially useful one. It totallt derailed the saulres content conversation for a little while until people found their way back to it.

It is scummy noise. You were creating noise, distracting people from the task at hand, and avoiding a stance about the current issues at hand. It really rubbed me the wrong way.

[Amrun]

Okay, then, good.

[Amrun]

Glowball, can you do me up a concise bullet point list of why Maruchan is scum?

[Amrun]

Lane: Response post for you when I can get to a computer. Short answer: I am not ONLY voting you for the conversation quashing post, but it is still scummy, yes. Two hours into the thread or not, stuff was happening, and you didn't need to talk about that necessarily, but you did NOT need to throw icourse by asking joke questions that had zero percent of producung content answers. Glowball and maruchan made posts that were entirely different in nature in combination with content posts. Also your vote on maruchan is terrible under a terrible premise, which is not that bad for when you posted tit, but is now terrible becase you're still riding on its coattails.

Glowball: I asked you for a combination of reasons. You were recently online and I wanted a quick answer, and I also trust your answer not to be in cuckoo land. Lane's vote on maruchan is shit and I know it already; Supreme Overlord's vote I already asked him about because it was alaso bad, and am waiting for him to answer that question since he is v/la; Auckmid already gave his reasons in a wall, iirc, but is perfectly welcome to present a list too.

Also,n why did you unvote?

[Amrun]

Okay, Thor, I read the wall and missed how saulres got onto the "too town to lynch" list.

That is a seriously "lolwut" mometnt for me. You gave me a small reason to hold off lynching due to newbness, not any reason to put on "town foeva" list.

Everything else I agree with, for the most part. We seem to be on a similar wavelength.

P-edit: no response to me, glowball?

[Amrun]

I currently think saulres is very scummy but am having trouble sorting out the likelihood of newb town vs newb scum.

I think the worst for me was the bad rhetoric case on maruchan. That was really scumy and not really in a ewbie way.

I'm letting it stew for now, but definitely not the WORST lynch for the day. I'd prefer others, but if that happened, I wouldn't cry.

[Amrun]

I see zero reason not to lynch ns, besides the fact that he lurks like so as any alignement, most of the time., so I think I'd rather wait and see hw his associations shake out a bit.

Do you see a reason not to lynch lane?

[Amrun]

I want to call supreme overlord newbie scum nervous that their elders are calling each other town, but my gut disagrees. Still, felt it ought to be noted.

Supreme Overlord, I highly doubt maruchan would sheep thor... They seem to dislike each other quite a lot. Where did you get that impression?

Also Thor's townread on me should be obvious. We're on the same page.

[Amrun]

Um, declaring people town is like 6/10ths of the game. Townreads are just as important as scum reads.

And robothor actually did say that about me.

[Amrun]

I caught all the scum day 1, once.

*cries about losing white flag*

I will never get over that.


Also of note, thinking maruchan likes thor displays an impressive amount of reading miscomprehension and/or skimming.

P-edit: Yes, it's all valid, but that sort of cogdis can come from newbie town, too.

Though all in all, so is not a terrible lynch. If he flipped scum I'd want to chainlynch saulres no questions asked.

But my gut says town. Idk why.

[Amrun]

The post where he was like "here are a bunch of reasons saulres is scummy, a couple of things about maruchan, joke, vote maruchan"

We both noted it in our walls.


Also saulres is still indepependently scummy. Looking forward to his theory, though.

[Amrun]

I'm not sure you are in the position to be giving advice, Maruchan. There's nothing wrong with making acumteam predictions at any time.

Glowball, I don't like your case on glowball. It's based almost entirely on playstyle. In particular, the point about Maruchan saying that there shouldn't be double standards was bad, because he was absolutely correct.

Also, I dislike how you flip out at him on this page. He pointed out a couple of posts of ytours that literally did not make sense and all of a sudden you're mad that you're his top suspect (which you don't seem to be)? It's hypocritical to criticize him both for scu$hunting and not scumhinting.

I do agree that maruchan could scumhunt more, though.

Saulres, I appreciate the effort and research, but an entirely meta-based case is a bad one. Also , rvs wagons are very useful, or can be, and no scumteam would so obviously link themselves.

P-edit: why would you hate to say I was town, ns?


Sorry, robo, don't feel like lynching ns today.

[Amrun]

Glowball, don't throw.a hissy fit. No pro-town player should need to be asked for their reads - and definitely not twice.

[Amrun]

glowball, in no way, shape, or form was that case a personal attack.

thunder, your case is also more based in playstyle than anything else. glowball really, truly is sensitive.

I call TvT on this one ... or maybe Tvt (because I'm not sure glowball is Town with a capital T). Leaning town on her still, though.

[Amrun]

Glowball, I don't like your case on glowball.

I'm having trouble following this, could you correct the name that's wrong?

Saulres, I appreciate the effort and research, but an entirely meta-based case is a bad one. Also , rvs wagons are very useful, or can be, and no scumteam would so obviously link themselves.

It's not entirely meta-based, the meta just helps fuel my suspicions, which started with the RVS bandwagon

s

(note the plural) Maruchan and glowball were both in, and stoked tremendously by maruchan asking people to vote for him, which, once again, he

still

hasn't addressed as to why.

Saying "no scumteam would so obviously link themselves" sounds like WIFOM to me.

Oops! I meant glowball's case on Maruchan. Apologies.

As for the second, it is, a bit, since I'm the one saying it, but it IS true. thunderwielder agrees, for what it's worth.

RVS wagons are not a scumtell, at least not until any flips happen. For example, if there was an RVS wagon on someone who later flips scum, it can be analyzed for who stayed on and off it and why, just like any other wagon, and early pressure is really great to get a game going.

[Amrun]

No, town reads matter to EVERYONE.

[Amrun]

Because scumreads are only half of the game. Even if some people think your reads are useless - and I can name only one or two that do, namely thunderwielder - if you flip town, voila! Reads no longer useless.

Just because I think your case on maruchan is weak does not mean I am uninterested in the rest of your reads.

[Amrun]

I think not all of your case is playstyle, but a lot of it is just something I associate with glowball, having played with her a couple of times now. The first time I played with her, I keyed in on it too. I haven't seen too many things that concerned me except a couple of things I noted. One was her weak FoS on you. It was bad and it continues to be bad - but I can see an emotional town glowball doing this, too.

Also, it's totally unfair for you to ask glowball to do anything else pertaining to a Maruchan case. She made a huge one, whether or not you agree with it.

I would like to see a Saulres case as well, though.

[Amrun]

I haven't answered thunder's case because I see nothing to answer for, he's interpreted my behavior as scummy and I cannot disagree with his playstyle or frame of mind. He's wrong and his case is garbage IMO, but I realize why he's come to those conclusion and that has to do with playstyle-

he's obviously not a successful scumhunter because I find it very hard to see him as scum at this point.

I am not giving my reads on other players because they aren't necessary. The only people I am willing to lynch today are Saulres and Maruchan. That's it and deduce from that what you will.

That doesn't make sense.

[Amrun]

Oh, thank God, Hoppster and Trow. This makes me happy.

[Amrun]

glowball:

At what point did you decide (in your head) that Maruchan was more worthy of a vote than Saulres?

When I voted him.

But before you voted him, you said that you didn't find Saulres more scummy than Maruchan. So this can't be true.

[Amrun]

Here is how it went down.

1. You vote saulres

2. Someone assumes you think sares is scummiest (logical)

3. You correct that person with a vague statement

It's the logical inference to assume that at that point, you found maruchan scummier, or there would have been no correction necessary.

[Amrun]

...
i dont find glowball's refusing to give her town reads scummy. scum would have cracked by now and given reads so they wouldnt appear scummy. thats my opinion.

Aw shit I agree with lane about something.

I don't think scum would point this out.

Unvote; Vote: Nobody Special

Still nothing from this slot. There's tons of content to talk about.


Glowball: You are being extremely rude to thunder for no reason. Please stop.

[Amrun]

When you find a scumread, I'll be happy to hear that, too.

[Amrun]

Thunder is not being rude to you. He is making a scumcase on you. There is distinct difference that you're missing.

Thunder thinks you're scum.

You, on the other hand, keep talking about how thunder is such a bad player that he needs to be blacklisted.

thunder isn't a bad player and that's really rude to say.

[Amrun]

Even if that is true (and if it is, I missed it), then you would also deserve blacklisting for repeating that same behavior.

(I think neither of you deserve blacklisting, ftr.)

I'm just trying to move this out of ad hom and back into scumhunting.

[Amrun]

for the record

[Amrun]

Holy shit balls, missed that power role comment.

Welp, vote's returning home.

VOTE: lane

RoboThor: AND this is why overlord is town

[Amrun]

Glowball, no one has insulted you. If you are town, please scumhunt. And please ignore thunder in doing so (since it upsets you).

You actually haven't answered a lot of questions.

[Amrun]

@amrun. Can you tell me why you find this to be super scummy as opposed to an idiotic antitown statement that was a mistake? What would be the scum intentions?

It reveals a scum mindset. You were PR hunting. That's like the definition of how scum play.

[Amrun]

Zero access tomorrow.

[Amrun]

i actually wasnt PR hunting. And if i was, and i was scum, why would i let everyone know that i was power role hunting? there was honestly just one thing he said that struck me as possible power role. it hasnt beent he whole game. one thing. but i still would like to know, what is the scum intentions of actually voicing that, as opposed to something stupid a town said? there is not when you really think about it. so really think about it.

Not caught up yet (in process), just want to reply to this.

It's a dumb thing to say as either alignment. I think scum would be more likely to let something like this slip since they have more incentive to look for it. Town is looking for scum, not prs.

[Amrun]

Oh boy. Everyone I try to ISO, to figure out what's going on, they just keep coming back to talking about glowball. I'm not seeing how this is helping town at all. I'm thinking of voting to lynch her because getting rid of her might help us focus tomorrow and I'm going to guess the scum, if she's not among them, want to keep her around for exactly that reason. And if she is scum we get rid of one of them, so lynching her seems like a win-win.

But okay, I'll play along and act like she's town and ask her something I don't think anyone's asked before, and see if she answers:

these reactions have helped me scumhunt immensely

I'm glad to hear that! So far, you have Maruchan and me as scum from well before the reactions were made, and you didn't change your opinion at all after all the reactions, so you still must be convinced. Therefore, if the reactions

did

help you as much as you claim, you must know who the third scum is! Please let us know in case we lynch you today and lose access to that valuable information. Thanks.

Yeah, I've got a third read, but it's not as strong as you or Maruchan and I am still unsure if you two are scumz together one flip will make all things clear. I mean the reactions have helped me scum hunt, I never said the reactions told me EXACTLY who the scum are. When I know, which I suspect by tomorrow if we lynch correctly, I will let you know unless we lynch you which as I said before is still just as suitable as Maruchan.

Okay, up until this point, I had a townread on glowball.

This post is really scummy.

There is ZERO TOWN MOTIVATION to deny giving the third scum read.

I disagree with glowball's reasoning for not giving townreads, but not giving SCUMREADS is an entirely different matter.

Saulres makes an excellent point: if this argument over you has helped your reads along, HOW and WHERE?

This is absolutely starting to sound like scum not wanting to take hard stances on anything before a round of flips so as not to incriminate themselves. (In xReckonerx NY135, MrZepher-scum used this strategy.)

glowball begging to be lynched is also reminding me of her play as hydra chkballin (scum) in Wraith's Planet of Hats large normal.

I have played with glowball as town, and she can be just as belligerent and stubborn as town. That is NOT a scumtell for her. However, even through that, I have been able to see glimmers of pro-town intent. I see none here.

VOTE: glowball

lane is still scum, fyi.

[Amrun]

scum slip up on their own, he is facilitating it because he knows that people find particular answers scummy and he was hoping I'd answer that way so he could push my wagon further and look like he is scum hunting at the same time. Hindsight is 20/20 don't make me say I told you so at end game.

awww Amrun,
It's a shame you can never read me, well I will add you to the list of people I love to play with because when I finally am scumz you probably won't notice then either.

I've played with you as scum and town and I read you correctly as both alignments. I've never once read you incorrectly, in fact.

In this particular game, I am not all that confident in my current read. My gut still says town with you, but my head cannot justify the post I quoted. It really was terribly anti-town - and Occam's Razor says most things that are anti-town are scum.

If you're NOT scum, you should be doing a lot more to show that.

[Amrun]

Since when?

[Amrun]

glowball, I was totally all over your shit after your claim in New York. I suspected you before that, too.

Wait, was Maruchan in hard boiled? >.> I don't remember him.


IDK guys I just re-read glowball and I change my mind.

Unvote; Vote: Lane

That post I quoted is still scummy, but glowball is not scum. Sticking with my gut on this one.

Seriously, though, glowball, you should at least explain your scumreads.

[Amrun]

Do you think it will be helpful to leave glowball alive? Because scummy post + useless player; why not lynch them? I appreciate you think lane is scummy; but that wagon doesn't exist and I think glowball's flip would be helpful in determining lane's alignment (why the defence, etc.). Would you be willing to vote glowball closer to deadline?

glowball isn't useless. She is emotional, and in this state, not very helpful, but when she calms down and gets to business it will be different. Either way, I do not lynch town players on purpose (except in extreme cases, like DeityKabuto).

I would be willing to vote glowball if it was a viable wagon at deadline in order to achieve a lynch. It depends on what the vote count looks like, but I would certainly rather see a glowball lynch than a no lynch.

p-edit: Saulres, everyone has to start somewhere, but your scumteam case is seriously terrible, and you need to watch yourself. You're building castles on sand.

p-edit2: I'm not really concerned with a saulres case. But I am really concerned that you won't state your third scumread, however tenuous.

[Amrun]

Glowball: I know why you think saulres is scummy, therefore I don't care about that. A case would be nice but not totally necessary.

Still not sure about your third person. That's a different ballgame.

p-edit:

I've been pretty transparent on my thoughts on glowball. I recognize that some of her actions can reasonably be interpreted as anti-town, but I could see her intentions and her emotions getting in the way, all up until the post I pointed out and am still pressing glowball about. I switched simply to show I was serious about finding that post scummy and because my lane vote is lonely, but I re-read glowball's ISO and remembered how pro-town her early game was (which is explicitly detailed in my catch-up post). glowball is town in spite of her current stubborness.

[Amrun]

GLOWBALL IF IT'S LANE PLEEEEEEASE JOIN ME ON THIS WAGON

[Amrun]

[Amrun]

p-edit: Saulres, everyone has to start somewhere, but your scumteam case is seriously terrible, and you need to watch yourself. You're building castles on sand.

Yes, you've said that before.

I find it interesting that the only people I remember telling me my theory was a bad idea are you and Maruchan who are both

part

of that theory. If it's a bad theory and I shouldn't pursue it, I'd expect that a

bunch

of pro-town people would be telling me so. Not just two of the people I suspect.

No, thunderwielder also said it, and said it first, iirc.

if glowball suspects lane then its not much of a story about me defending glowball. i dont think two scum would so closely link up lol. and as far as defending? not defending. i do think glowball is town. saying why she is town would be defending her. trying to move on from the fact that glowball isnt giving reads is entirely different. the pressure went on for fucking pages. what dont you see about this?

thats not defense tyvw. amrun is full of bs. what is your case on me even? gut read again? like a glowball gut town read? you crazy.

response to supreme overlord forthcoming, and i'm assuming that i can quote myself from the game to make my case using my own words, correct supreme overlord?

P.S. - I never said it was defense. That was someone else. Stop misrepping. Also, calling me crazy is not enough to discredit me. Saying my case is gut is not enough either, since everyone reading the thread knows it is not gut. I have detailed and talked about several things you've done that I have found scummy. That's how the game works.

THUNDERWIELDER, GLOWBALL, PUT ASIDE YOUR DIFFERENCES AND VOTE FOR LANE PLLLZZZ

[Amrun]

I do not like mothrax' catch up, pretty much at all. He put actual effort into showing that NS lurks (we all know this) but very little effort into his reads.

And then there is his gut vote on the biggest wagon, mixed in with saying that other slots lurk, which is a scumtell. (PS: It's not. And no one was ever voting for NS for straight lurking.)

[Amrun]

Why do you think glowball is scummy?

[Amrun]

Why is that a scumtell?

Maruchan is still a viable wagon. I still don't see why you think Maruchan is scummy. If you have a gut townread on glowball but some logical problems with her, why support glowball over Maruchan?

Three days is still plenty of time.

[Amrun]

Why does defense = scum?

[Amrun]

Town's goal is also to not be lynched, as that hurts their wincon, too.

[Amrun]

I think we're disagreeing on theory here.

I still think you could put a lot more work in your reads.

[Amrun]

So yeah, leaning slightly scum on the mothrax/ns slot.

[Amrun]

VOTE: mothrax

Yay counterwagons.

[Amrun]

I always read your responses, but you confuse "response" with "valid defense."

[Amrun]

Yeah, you are WRONG. Anti-town IS scummy, for starters, and even if everyone agreed that it was "not scummy," which isn't the case, that doesn't mean that you're right.

I have given several posts detailing my suspicion of you, which is what a case IS. "Show me your case, minus the things about me you find scummy."

[Amrun]

Glowball: I know why you think saulres is scummy, therefore I don't care about that. A case would be nice but not totally necessary.

Still not sure about your third person. That's a different ballgame.

p-edit:

I've been pretty transparent on my thoughts on glowball. I recognize that some of her actions can reasonably be interpreted as anti-town, but I could see her intentions and her emotions getting in the way, all up until the post I pointed out and am still pressing glowball about. I switched simply to show I was serious about finding that post scummy and because my lane vote is lonely, but I re-read glowball's ISO and remembered how pro-town her early game was (which is explicitly detailed in my catch-up post). glowball is town in spite of her current stubborness.

I already answered that.

[Amrun]

There are several other reasons, such as not giving in when pressured about her reads and general intent of her posts, but yes.

[Amrun]

Because I had ALREADY pointed them out. You can read my iso.

[Amrun]

I'm not saying its a tell. I just wonder why you got 5 pages of attention for not providing a case on saulres when amrun is doing the same thing. You know what I mean? I said before I didn't think it was THAT scummy of you to not provide a case on saulres and I thought your explanation for not giving town reads was acceptable

I don't think most people ever really cared about her not giving a case on saulres. I didn't, at least. She had reasons in her iso.

I cared about her not sharing her third scumread (which I figured out) and disagreed with her not sharing her townreads, which I have now put down to difference of opinion on theory.

[Amrun]

That vote isn't going to get counted. Don't do that.

It's a terrible vote anyway.

[Amrun]

v/la until tuesday

[Amrun]

VOTE: lane

Not entirely caught up after v/la, but I've skimmed. I like MrTrow's catchup post. Lane still scum. Maruchan still not scum.

[Amrun]

Try again.

[Amrun]

I don't have to agree with everything MrTrow posted to think it was a towny cathcup post. Town don't always agree.

[Amrun]

Well, obviously, he called lane null-town and I disagree. Probably some other stuff, too, too busy to go look. But in general I think they are genuine observations and I feel better about his slot now.

[Amrun]

Who else is scum amrun?

Why don't you tell me?

I've discussed at least one likely candidate before.

This is therefore just mudslinging, as most of your other posts. You are not truly interested in my alignment, because you know it. You are just seeking to make me look bad and get a mislynch.

[Amrun]

ISO me while you're at it, saulres. I have lots of things against lane.

I may collect them when I have time.

[Amrun]

Here, I'll collect them, even.

...
-And then lane0168 absolutely does his best to quash all productive discussion with bunk about knit hats. Very scummy.
...

VOTE: lane0168

I don't understand why no pressure is coming this way yet. I am still stuck on how he saw RVS was ending and there was content being generated and made a quick move to stop that.

I find saulres quite scummy but am still measuring that against his newness.

I do not find Maruchan scummy in the slightest.

Maruchan, you should never aim to belynched unless you are a jester.

Lane, so many things in that paragraph are wrong. The goal of rvs is to get out of it as quickly as possible - and you did your best to extend it. Only scum have interest in doing this.

RVS and RQS are functionally the same. They are there to generate conversation until someone finds something scummy someone else has done, therefore truly beginning the game.

As it should have been blatantly obvious from my catchup post, I read everything in context. At the time, I was excited that by the top of page 2, a really interesting conversation involving saulres was happening. A lot of good points were being made; we had moved into content.

You came in and didn't comment on anything, simply tried to start an RQS, and not even a potentially useful one. It totallt derailed the saulres content conversation for a little while until people found their way back to it.

It is scummy noise. You were creating noise, distracting people from the task at hand, and avoiding a stance about the current issues at hand. It really rubbed me the wrong way.

Lane: Response post for you when I can get to a computer. Short answer: I am not ONLY voting you for the conversation quashing post, but it is still scummy, yes. Two hours into the thread or not, stuff was happening, and you didn't need to talk about that necessarily, but you did NOT need to throw icourse by asking joke questions that had zero percent of producung content answers. Glowball and maruchan made posts that were entirely different in nature in combination with content posts. Also your vote on maruchan is terrible under a terrible premise, which is not that bad for when you posted tit, but is now terrible becase you're still riding on its coattails.

Glowball: I asked you for a combination of reasons. You were recently online and I wanted a quick answer, and I also trust your answer not to be in cuckoo land. Lane's vote on maruchan is shit and I know it already; Supreme Overlord's vote I already asked him about because it was alaso bad, and am waiting for him to answer that question since he is v/la; Auckmid already gave his reasons in a wall, iirc, but is perfectly welcome to present a list too.

Also,n why did you unvote?

Holy shit balls, missed that power role comment.

Welp, vote's returning home.

VOTE: lane

RoboThor: AND this is why overlord is town

@amrun. Can you tell me why you find this to be super scummy as opposed to an idiotic antitown statement that was a mistake? What would be the scum intentions?

It reveals a scum mindset. You were PR hunting. That's like the definition of how scum play.

i actually wasnt PR hunting. And if i was, and i was scum, why would i let everyone know that i was power role hunting? there was honestly just one thing he said that struck me as possible power role. it hasnt beent he whole game. one thing. but i still would like to know, what is the scum intentions of actually voicing that, as opposed to something stupid a town said? there is not when you really think about it. so really think about it.

Not caught up yet (in process), just want to reply to this.

It's a dumb thing to say as either alignment. I think scum would be more likely to let something like this slip since they have more incentive to look for it. Town is looking for scum, not prs.

p-edit: Saulres, everyone has to start somewhere, but your scumteam case is seriously terrible, and you need to watch yourself. You're building castles on sand.

Yes, you've said that before.

I find it interesting that the only people I remember telling me my theory was a bad idea are you and Maruchan who are both

part

of that theory. If it's a bad theory and I shouldn't pursue it, I'd expect that a

bunch

of pro-town people would be telling me so. Not just two of the people I suspect.

No, thunderwielder also said it, and said it first, iirc.

if glowball suspects lane then its not much of a story about me defending glowball. i dont think two scum would so closely link up lol. and as far as defending? not defending. i do think glowball is town. saying why she is town would be defending her. trying to move on from the fact that glowball isnt giving reads is entirely different. the pressure went on for fucking pages. what dont you see about this?

thats not defense tyvw. amrun is full of bs. what is your case on me even? gut read again? like a glowball gut town read? you crazy.

response to supreme overlord forthcoming, and i'm assuming that i can quote myself from the game to make my case using my own words, correct supreme overlord?

P.S. - I never said it was defense. That was someone else. Stop misrepping. Also, calling me crazy is not enough to discredit me. Saying my case is gut is not enough either, since everyone reading the thread knows it is not gut. I have detailed and talked about several things you've done that I have found scummy. That's how the game works.

THUNDERWIELDER, GLOWBALL, PUT ASIDE YOUR DIFFERENCES AND VOTE FOR LANE PLLLZZZ

I always read your responses, but you confuse "response" with "valid defense."

Yeah, you are WRONG. Anti-town IS scummy, for starters, and even if everyone agreed that it was "not scummy," which isn't the case, that doesn't mean that you're right.

I have given several posts detailing my suspicion of you, which is what a case IS. "Show me your case, minus the things about me you find scummy."

Who else is scum amrun?

Why don't you tell me?

I've discussed at least one likely candidate before.

This is therefore just mudslinging, as most of your other posts. You are not truly interested in my alignment, because you know it. You are just seeking to make me look bad and get a mislynch.

tl;dr: Lane has contributed very little to the conversation and has instead seeked to quash conversation at every turn (such as the noted knit caps thing, also with glowball). The only original contribution is lane's "case" on Maruchan, which was bad. Worse, lane never changed her vote off of her RVS vote for Maruchan. Sticking with it so doggedly (and not providing any kind of reasoning beyond the weak early game reasoning until late in the day) is a sign of scum-worried-about-looking-consistent. Lane seeks to sling mud at me at every given opportunity, and as stated in a quote above, shows very little interest in probing alignments rather than finding posting flaws to harp about.

The only exception is his point about glowball-scum, saying that glowball-scum would have just given her reads when asked. However, glowball was so certain to be lynched that this is not a strong enough point to detract my scumread. White knighting is a common scum tactic (though this exchange equates to null).

[Amrun]

Defending strongly, usually someone most people think is scum.

[Amrun]

i already said what i think your alignment is, not to mention i wasnt asking what your alignment was.

I asked who else do you think is scum?
were i to be lynched correctly, who would you go after next?
were i to be mislynched, who would you go after next? (let me guess, your answer is, "you wont get mislynched, so i dont have to answer this question")

how is this mudslinging?

Did you read my iso yet?

[Amrun]

Obviously, mothrax is my #2. He is independently scummy, entirely unrelated to your flip.

I suspected glowball at some point but detracted it.

If you were to flip scum, thunderwielder would be awarded some scum points. Supreme Overlord would be awarded town points.

There is very little to analyze in the way of this, as I have been the only one on you all game, pretty much. If I finally succeed in getting a wagon on you, that will change, hopefully.

[Amrun]

lane: If you were to flip town, nothing would really change. My suspicion of mothrax doesn't depend on my suspicion of you, and your pushes would be genuine. Once a full wagon built, there might be information available, but obviously as of yet there isn't anything.

SO: I have already made my thoughts transparent. I was looking for something out of lane. Obtuseness has a time and place and is not always anti-town.


It's cute that all the newbies are treating me like a newbie, though. lol

[Amrun]

You attack lane for not switching votes for 23 pages (nothing wrong with this if it remains the best case)

Um, did you pay attention to the vote lane was actually sitting on? It was terrible - far from the best case.

[Amrun]

Being on a wagon that is widely accepted =/= not being scummy.

Your vote on it was bad and poorly supported for a long time. You coasted on this early game vote until you started taking pressure for doing so, at which point you provided a case which was also invalid.

And if you'll note, I've said the Maruchan wagon was bad ever since it started.

[Amrun]

The point was a big part of the case was my vote on maru. Why wasn't that any of a part of a case on glowball?

I don't understand what you mean by this.

[Amrun]

You said my vote on maru is terrible. And keep bringing up how its scummy. And its a big part of why I'm scummy to you. But you never brought it up as even a point on glowball. Not even a ,hey that's scummy but I think glowball is still town. Why not? Why the double standard?

Not all votes for Maruchan are/were scummy. I didn't find glowball's particularly scummy, though I did find glowball's case on Maruchan not convincing, as noted, if you will look.

People voting for my town reads are not automatically scum, just like people voting for my scum reads are not automatically town. It just doesn't work that way.

[Amrun]

OH MY GOD HE LOOKS SO HAPPY

[Amrun]

I'm a little confused. You're voting for supreme overlord because of relational tells with ns/mothrax slot?

[Amrun]

Okay, mothrax can be for death today.

VOTE: mothrax

[Amrun]

I still prefer lane, but eh.

The only thing still giving me misgivings is that I have reason to believe NS prefers to play as scum as of late... and he replaced out.

[Amrun]

Hoppster, when he replaced into my open (it's done, calm down), he was like "please be scum, please be scum, please be scum" and it was and he was happy. And he didn't replace out my game when he replaced out of others.

[Amrun]

I missed it. Restate?

[Amrun]

AWWW YEAH BOI

VOTE: lane

[Amrun]

Wwell I said what I said. Didn't mean to call amrun scum

unvote vote lane

Amrun, you are absolutely worthless (not in life as a person, but in this game). You say i'm mudslinging? Iso yourself. You have single handedly lynched me today. You have been a HUGE liability for town all game. When I flip town, everyone will see how little you have actually contributed. Way to lead us to yet another mislynch. You will never be forgiven.

HEHAHAHAHAHAHHAEHEAHAHAHA

SCUM CAUGHT FOR THE "WRONG REASONS" HISSYFIT + SCUM SELF VOTE

HEHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

[Amrun]

EBWODP

This are unrelated to my reads--just responding to things.

@Amrun

Oh yeah, and this just caught my eye.

If you were to flip scum, thunderwielder would be awarded some scum points. Supreme Overlord would be awarded town points.
.

Uhmm... Why? I don't understand this connection at all. And this is unsettling to me, because right now Lane's on my scummy list too. So if I'm right about that interpretation, then how do I get scum points?

That's what I was asking about. I mean, I guess I could now be throwing my scumbuddy under the bus to get back into your good graces, but I've had a somewhat read on Lane all game. I'm just curious why I would get scumpoints if he flipped scum, since I haven't been exactly defending him.

'Cause FOS scumbuddy, vote for townie.

Will have to re-evaluate lataaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaz


FLIP COME ONNNNNNNN

I LOVE SCUMFLIPS

[Amrun]

===========================[]

[Amrun]

But seriously. Good luck town. Even you amrun. I bet you're so sweet and pretty in real life. And you robo, I bet you're a hit with all the ladies. You're so strong and handsome. Oops just drove the tractor out of line lol.

Ill be so happy if my supreme/mothrax relationship is right. Just a small personal victory ya know?

Amrun is obvi scum. She is over confident either because she knows I'm town and is putting on a fassad or whichever.

Or because she knows I'm scum and can then be like "see I knew it the whole game!"

Its cause she is putting on a facad. Is that the one? Its so obvious

Lolllllllllllllll.

This game has become immensely entertaining.


I wonder if it will be less entertaining when I do not have a fever / am taking less drugs?

NAHHHHHHHHHHH

[Amrun]

Unfortunately, saulres didn't seem to breadcrumb a result, but we can safely conclude that Maruchan, mothrax, and lane were not his doc targets.

l2breadcrumb

[Amrun]

WIFOM it is, but it isn't laughable. Threatkills happen all the time.

Speaking of your previous scumgames, can you link them?

[Amrun]

Post the chipmunk again to make it better.

[Amrun]

YOU REPLACED AUCKMID.

VOTE: Tragedy

Why would you point out I "buddied" Auckmid? (Pro tip: I didn't) unless you would think it would make me look bad? How does that make sense?

You know Auckmid is scum, that's why.

I'm not even going to address the rest of your post on me because it's tossing bollocks. "Where is this" my ass. Try reading the actual game instead of just ISOing me because my name comes first alphabetically and calling me scum out of laziness.

[Amrun]

It's not an omgus vote... It's a vote because you displayed no pro-town intent.

I'm not going to address the post's full content because it's all done in ignorance. You make petty potshots that mean nothing and ask questions that have obvious answers.

IF you didn't have time to read yet and decided to ISO everyone really quick and then make a judgment about who is scum, that would have been entirely different - even if you decided I was scum. Instead, the ONLY THING YOU READ was the OP and then you skimmed my ISO because it was first in the drop down list and decided I was scum and dropped a vote on me. You clearly understood very little of what was actually posted, as reflected by your questions.

You're looking for something to attack. You're not looking for scum. That is how scum post, not how town post.

[Amrun]

There's not much to say about lane. I was wrong.

The wagon is probably going to be important in some way. I haven't quite figured out how yet. For the most part, I think the wagon was town driven. There were probably some scum sliding on at some point, but I don't know where yet. When I have time, I'll look again.

I feel less sure about my Maruchan town read today. Idk.

[Amrun]

Not all that confident, tbh. 75% maybe.


Treagedy, how would the nk implicte maruchn town? lol

[Amrun]

VOTE: mothrax

okay

[Amrun]

Suck it up. You're a hydra.

[Amrun]

FENCESIT HARDER SCUM

[Amrun]

How would the auckmid thing be a townslip?

[Amrun]

Tragedy is scum because she ISOed the first person on the drop down list and fabricated farcical reasons to call that person scum before reading anything else. That person is me, but quite honestly, it doesn't matter. It's only coincidental.

This trend has continued. This is weird for Tragedy-town I know; she usually muddles along a bit, but eventually points out some good things. She assumes the best of people rather than the worst, usually. She is not that great at asserting her suspicions.

Here, I see her looking for categorical flaws in posts rather than probing intent. Her walls of ISO show a lot of cog dis; she's taking every pot shot she can think of, but not really integrating them into cohesive opinions.

In short, she's posting like scum.

[Amrun]

I don't think I've ever played in with her when she replaced, but here's my first game with her, when I was scum:

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

She ended up suspecting me, but nothing came of it. She kind of just floated along, pointing some good things out here and there, which I think is typical of her town play.

[Amrun]

Another game for reference.

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=17470

[Amrun]

I skimmed some of her scum meta at the time and she had a game where she didn't vote much.

BUT I forget anything else besides that. I pushed for Tragedy-town soon after that.

[Amrun]

He was prodded like 3 posts ago...

[Amrun]

I like that catch^^

and I thought my vote was on morthrax?

Vote: Morthrax

Amrun, are you saying tragedy isnt as scummy as morthrax, or why didn't you vote for her when you called her scum?

I did, originally. But mothrax has a lot more support and I feel more confident about that slot being scum.

[Amrun]

Robo: I don't really care enough about meta to investigate it or care. All I'm saying is this: Tragedy is posting like scum. She always posts somewhat like scum, but this time it is alarming me because it is a different like-scum than I am used to. Had I never played with Tragedy, I'd probably be MORE convinced Tragedy was scum.

[Amrun]

Tragedy, I'm actually a pretty aggressive player either way... Where you got the impression otherwise, idk.

[Amrun]

VOTE: Tragedy

[Amrun]

So where's your vote?

[Amrun]

AW YEAH BOI

[Amrun]

.................

wow, mothrax

[Amrun]

V/LA until Monday night

[Amrun]

Tragedy is actually voting me.


But for the LOVE OF GOD freaking PICK PEOPLE. We need to LYNCH SOMEONE.

Tragedy is good. Delta is an okay second. In the interest of making things happen...

VOTE: DeltaWave

L-1.

[Amrun]

So I'm really sorry; I missed a WHOLE PAGE when throwing down that vote, hence me thinking it was L-1 when it was actually the hammer... I suck.

[Amrun]

INTERESTING.

RoboThor was obvtown, though.

[Amrun]

I expliclitly said I missed the most recent page at the time. I don't know how I did that, but I did. So I thought I was putting Tragedy at L-1, as indicated in my post, but I wasn't.

I'm leaning toward voting MrTrow.

It fits too perfectly with the blocks. It's possible saulres saved the kill n1, but Trow has at least 50% chance of being scum. Them's pretty good odds. Also it really makes sense with PoE and lurkiness for it to be him.

[Amrun]

I thought Tragedy was voting me because on that page I was reading, Tragedy was. >.> Idk, I derped it.

[Amrun]

Omg, learn to look at intent.

TOTAL SCUM INTENT THERE

YUP


TOTALLY


Jesus christ.


I don't know (or care) which page or pages I was on or missed. I never mentioned page numbers because I didn't pay attention to them. I clearly thought I was putting Tragedy at L-1.

[Amrun]

oh god

robothor

who did this to you

i'm on my own now

[Amrun]

v/la for the weekend; sick

[Amrun]

Yeah, I meant DeltaWave. I had/have a pretty high fever. I'm just giving up on mafia for now. I'll try again after the weekend.

[Amrun]

Was he?

Yes, he freaking was, from day 1, and that never changed.


Cephrir is town town town.

Tragedy... I'm wavering on. I can totally see scum motivation there - really, really can - scum worried about consistency, etc, but at the same time, something in my gut is twinging in the opposite direction.

I see nothing of Mr Trow to convince me he's not scum. Still will see blood there.

Hoppster is being useless and that's weird for him.

Quilford, why do you think you didn't block Trow successfully? Not really following.

[Amrun]

But couldn't they kill anyone with worry? Why RoboThor?

Why couldn't your block have been successful AND doc protect robo?

In all likelihood, this isn't actually important since you're conftown. It just stood out.

[Amrun]

Are you counterclaiming?

Come on now.

[Amrun]

What?

[Amrun]

Post 856 TRAGEDY POINT - This is something I didn't catch before. When Hoppster asks her "why don't you throw your vote down for Mothrax?" She responds with that she doesn't want him quicklynched and that there are already two town players on the wagon (Hoppster, myselft). BUT, she hadn't yet done her ISO analysis on me at that time, so how would she know I was a town unless she knew who all her scumpartners were?! this is the biggest thing I've found against Tragedy thus far, in my opinion now she's back in the running against Trow for my vote

Wow that's actually an excellent point.

I think I might be back on the lynchtragedy wagon for this.

What do you have to say about this, Tragedy?

Fixed clusterfuck of punctuation disappearing because it bugs me -- Mod

[Amrun]

What? That doesn't make sense.

[Amrun]

No, I mean that your post literally did not make sense and I don't know what you were trying to say.

[Amrun]

So from an ISO skim, you were confident enough to base other reads off of thunder being town?

If thunder is scum, how have we lost the game?

[Amrun]

Your judgments?

[Amrun]

Right, you made judgments that other people were town or scum using thunder being town as a starting off point. That's exactly my point.

[Amrun]

oh, thunderweilder is probably town.

And you ARE kind of being useless right now. You're adrift, not knowing what to do after your tunnel target is no more.

[Amrun]

My hypothetical vote goes to Trow.

I would LOVE to hear more from Hoppster and especially Quilford.

[Amrun]

okay can we discuss this after trow is dead

[Amrun]

oh jesus christ, quilford. get your head out of the sand.

pretty much all of your last post was soooo wrong.

AND if you would actually READ and UNDERSTAND the game, that post is so non-representative of my overall views it's silly.


You, on the other hand, seem to be pushing Cephrir for possibly knowing MrTrow is scum.

Okay, fine. You MIGHT have a point, even though I have a townread on Cephrir.

EITHER WAY

YOU DON'T LYNCH CEPHRIR FIRST

SO I DON'T CARE

[Amrun]

oh jesus christ, quilford. get your head out of the sand.

pretty much all of your last post was soooo wrong.

AND if you would actually READ and UNDERSTAND the game, that post is so non-representative of my overall views it's silly.

okay, so tell me why

I don't really have to. It's all there in the game.

I voted glowball for like a hot second before deciding she was town and defending her to her grave, for example.

[Amrun]

I'm bored

lynch trowscum time plz?

[Amrun]

honestly i don't really think it's a scumslip

doesn't stop him from being scum though

explain why he isn't scum

i guess i can wait though

[Amrun]

You still haven't presented any passable reason as to why I might be scum. Fyi.

Not that I really care tbh.

[Amrun]

I'm not, no.

But mostly because you've already demonstrated how poor your reasoning is.

[Amrun]

actually, it is reason to call him pro-town.

[Amrun]

obvtown i meant sorry

[Amrun]

hoppster = prob-town (laying low a bit longer would probably have gotten me lynched)

What theh hell is this comment?

No case from me, sorreeeeee


thunder and cephrir are town, you are scummiEST, and you were rb n1 when there was no kill.

You've been playing reactively. Nothing in your iso makes me think you are town.

[Amrun]

vote: mrtrow

I'm bored.

[Amrun]

Okay, I don't understand what was so important about that wall.

It didn't actually say anything at all except "don't lynch me bro."

It didn't even say who should be lynched instead.

[Amrun]

I was totally convinced it was MrTrow/Hoppster. I was only half right. :/