Cyclic Experimentation Set x02 - [Game Over]

[Stringer Bell]

VOTE: FourseenCircumstance for being the only one not confirmed yet.

[Stringer Bell]

I'm pretty reserved, but once I find something that I really want to talk about, I can be pretty longwinded.

Strategy notes

Last game, our general strategy was to pass abilities between people and clear people by having them pass abilities to scum. If two people passed an ability between each other, and one flipped scum, the other was cleared. We had 4 people cleared by the end of the game, and it wasn't hard to finish it off. Obviously, the poison mechanic is intended to make that less efficient.

So,

IF

there are no abilities that can stop the poison, then people who have passed abilities to scum or have had abilities passed to them from scum are "cleared." However, there are a few reasons that they might not be:

1: there might be some kind of ability which can explicitly stop the poison kill. If this is the case, and the ability has no beneficial aspect, then that person should claim either today or tomorrow. We can deal with it by dumping it on someone scummy and nuking them out of orbit. or lynching also works. It's also theoretically possible that the scum have some kind of poison kill though, so yeah.
2: there might be some normal protective ability (like a doctor) that happens to protect against the poison kill.

If anyone has a doctor ability, then they should ask the mod if that ability will protect against the poison kill.

They shouldn't claim, for obvious reasons. They can claim later.
3: the scum have an ability which directly combats the poison, for example, a factional one-shot free pass-between-each-other ability to prevent us from clearing people. I wouldn't be surprised if something like this is in the game after the strategy we wound up using last time, and there's no way to detect it, so people who pass abilities to scum or get them are probably just going to be somewhat townier, as opposed to being clear.

On massclaim

Massclaiming abilities worked really well last game, and should work equally well this game. We actually might be able to do this SA3-style, where starting day three everyone has to claim their abilities from two days ago.

Last time, we would do it like this: everyone would claim if they had any abilities the previous day, without claiming what any abilities were. The next day, everyone would claim what abilities they passed, and who they passed to. It wound up being kind of informal. There might be a better strict way to claim it to maximize the potential information gain, but scum are relatively unlikely to lie about cycling choices since it can be kind of easily detected.

On day three, we should claim every ability name and start compiling a "map" for each ability. Like, if player A started with an ability, and passed it to player B, and they passed it to player C (who would have it on day three) then on day three, player A would claim "I had ability X on day one, and passed it to player B" and describe the ability. Player B could confirm what they'd said. We also potentially wouldn't have to have player B claim until day four. Player C would obviously stay quiet until day four or five to protect the ability, unless it's something blatantly anti-town.

Thoughts?

I like the idea of mapping out the abilities, because also if a particularly pro-town ability is passed to someone who has been scummy through the first couple of days, we can ask many questions about the person who passed them such an ability. Also, scum are allowed to pass abilities to each other, unlike last game.

Q: What happened to the rule that anti-town factions cannot pass abilities directly to their partners?

A: A bizarre experiment in Chamber c9098 has successfully created a method of cycling that allows any anti-town factions existing within the game to pass abilities to subjects within their team. But this power is not without its consequences. If an anti-town factional member chooses to cycle an ability to one of their partners, it will cause them to be poisoned, and die the following night.

[

Example: Scum A passes Ability X to Scum B on Night One. Scum B will die at the end of Night Two, flipping at the start of Day 3.

]

Therefore, it should be a little bit harder to map out the different abilities as we get later on in the game (D5 onwards). On the other hand, I don't think that the scum will pass abilities between each other for at least the first night, because they don't want to automatically lose a member at the end of N3.

[Stringer Bell]

I'm ... normal?

Vote:Sinestro!

@Implosion: I'm okay with what you're saying but

Q: Were all abilities available from the start?

A: All abilities existing within this game are present from the start of the game. No new abilities will be introduced after game start.

what if there are abilities that disappear by itself in this game? sorta like 1 shot 2 shot. It would surely affect how the massclaim turn out. This didn't really happen the last game so I'm concerned the mod might get smarter

Since the abilities pass from player to player, it would be sort of strange if there was a 1 or 2 shot ability, other than the virus that kills whoever holds it too long.

[Stringer Bell]

CRYPTO WTF seriously dude.

a) voted self
b) unvoted and voted someone due to trying to make a plan
c) basicly wanted a super quick lynch.
d) unvoted again and jumped onto another wagon.

so all i have to say is

vote crypto

I'm not an expert on crypto's play, I've never played with him before, but it certainly seems to me that a), b), and c) were all part of RVS, and therefore not really to be taken seriously. In d), he jumped on the warriormode "wagon", which consisted of Magistar Ludi and nobody else, because warrior's reasoning was nonexistent.

I like your plan implosion.
Should be very helpful.
And I doubt scum will pass each other abilities.
But if they do, all the easier I suppose.

Vote: crypto

If we go with the assertion that crypto voted warriormode because he failed to give a reason for his vote, then this unvote-vote onto MoI certainly needs some explaining:

unvote
vote: magnaofillusion

[Stringer Bell]

Yes, I do want to lynch warriormatt.

why? (i happen to agree.)

Are we talking warriormode or projectmatt?

[Stringer Bell]

By the by...

I have a power. One that has been described as "anti-town" by at least one person.

Seriously? Why are you sharing this?

Unvote, vote:Toogeloo

How does it make him scummy that he has an anti-town ability? The abilities were distributed at random..The fact that he shared it doesn't really matter to me, doesn't give me a tell at all. The only thing it tells me is that there are anti-town abilities in the game..

[Stringer Bell]

By the by...

I have a power. One that has been described as "anti-town" by at least one person.

Seriously? Why are you sharing this?

Unvote, vote:Toogeloo

How does it make him scummy that he has an anti-town ability? The abilities were distributed at random..The fact that he shared it doesn't really matter to me, doesn't give me a tell at all. The only thing it tells me is that there are anti-town abilities in the game..

If we lynch someone with an anti-town ability, doesn't that mean that ability is gone?
I thought we also agreed not to say or hint towards our roles for today. did we not?
His post here isn't really scummy, the fact that he hasn't voted or even given some kind of read on anyone yet is.

I think we need Toog to elaborate more on the ability and just how anti-town it is. Then we can make a better decision about what to do with it. If necessary, Toog could not use the ability, and also not make a cycling choice, which would send the ability into the void.

[Stringer Bell]

I think we need Toog to elaborate more on the ability and just how anti-town it is. Then we can make a better decision about what to do with it. If necessary, Toog could not use the ability, and also not make a cycling choice, which would send the ability into the void.

I dislike Stringer Bell’s attempt to push Toogeloo into revealing even more about his ability. We have no clue what the mafia themselves have as a power. If they have, say, a rerouter, they could send his ability to one of their buddies if it’s deemed useful. Revealing more information about the ability is once again, not beneficial for the town. If Toog wants, he can decide by himself not to make that cycling choice and send the ability to the grave. The mafia benefits more from us gaining information of his role than the town does.

Unvote

Vote: Stringer Bell

You took my quote totally out of context. This was the full conversation I was having with warriormode:

By the by...

I have a power. One that has been described as "anti-town" by at least one person.

Seriously? Why are you sharing this?

Unvote, vote:Toogeloo

How does it make him scummy that he has an anti-town ability? The abilities were distributed at random..The fact that he shared it doesn't really matter to me, doesn't give me a tell at all. The only thing it tells me is that there are anti-town abilities in the game..

If we lynch someone with an anti-town ability, doesn't that mean that ability is gone?
I thought we also agreed not to say or hint towards our roles for today. did we not?
His post here isn't really scummy, the fact that he hasn't voted or even given some kind of read on anyone yet is.

I think we need Toog to elaborate more on the ability and just how anti-town it is. Then we can make a better decision about what to do with it. If necessary, Toog could not use the ability, and also not make a cycling choice, which would send the ability into the void.

warriormode had voted for Toogeloo after Toog had revealed that he had an anti-town role. I questioned warrior as to why that made him scummy, and he said he thought it was a good idea to lynch someone with an anti-town ability because that ability would go away. That's when I said that Toog needed to elaborate more on his ability before we decided to lynch him, just to get rid of that ability.

[Stringer Bell]

Unvote

. Still had it on Fourseen from RVS, no reason to keep it there since we've clearly moved past RVS/RQS.

[Stringer Bell]

Anyway, Stringer, you don't have a good place to vote?

Not at the moment, I'm not sure of the warriormode wagon and don't want it to get out of hand this early in the day. Nothing worse than quicklynching day 1.

[Stringer Bell]

VOTE: FourseenCircumstances. That was about as blatant as it gets.

[Stringer Bell]

Anyway, Stringer, you don't have a good place to vote?

Not at the moment, I'm not sure of the warriormode wagon and don't want it to get out of hand this early in the day. Nothing worse than quicklynching day 1.

VOTE: FourseenCircumstances. That was about as blatant as it gets.

So you were hesitant to wagon warriormode because you didn't like the speed of it, then you easily hop onto the quickly growing FC wagon? Why the difference?

I didn't want to lynch warrior because I didn't think that the case against him was very good, and a quicklynch on a mediocre case is not a good start to a game.

I still don't think that quicklynching D1 is a good idea, but in this game you rarely get thrown the two posts that Fourseen threw us.

[Stringer Bell]

crypto is angry town. He may be hypocritical about revealing reads and such, but I still think he's town. I stand by my Fourseen vote, I haven't seen anything from him to make him less scummy than he was, nor anything from anyone else that has been scummier than Fourseen.

[Stringer Bell]

I've been busy this weekend, but I should be able to get some game content up tomorrow.

[Stringer Bell]

@ Stringer Bell
You’re not off the hook. Who else do you think is suspicious? You can’t have just gotten ONE PERSON from this entire thread. Nice job hopping onto that wagon gaining steam, by the way.

Scum list:
Fourseen-it seems this wagon is slowly dying, just like all early D1 wagons. Not everyone has jumped off yet, but I just can't see this going to a lynch.
wazzatron-only 6 posts, so not much to go off of, but I hated his reasoning behind his crypto vote in ISO #
Furcolow-

should we claim who we passed to, or used our abilities on?

I used my ability on Crypto. I remember not claiming abilities in terms of what they were/who I passed to until d2
I am assuming town will repeat that, as it was beneficial last game for us

I did have a PR night one, though, as I softclaimed in the previous post

I think these posts were an intentional screwup to seem like a townie who hadn't read the rules. In his mind, he's probably thinking, "No scum would blatantly screw up the rules like this; they'll definitely think I'm town!" I don't like it. Also never answered the question posed by MoI about why he did this. I'd love to see what he could come up with for reasoning.

I'm sad to see Crypto having gone from omgusing to flailing

vote: crypto's replacement

This post screams scum at me too, because DrippingGoofball, who replaced into crypto's spot, had already made TEN posts, including a complete town/scum list on every player in the game. It seems to me that he's just ignoring what DGB had done up to that point.

His next post, 371, basically has a bunch of fluff reasoning based on where DGB put different players in the list. Four of the people he called out for being scumbuddies were because "maybe scumbuddy in the middle of the list". How is that reasoning?

VOTE: Furcolow

[Stringer Bell]

In fact...

should we claim who we passed to, or used our abilities on?

I used my ability on Crypto. I remember not claiming abilities in terms of what they were/who I passed to until d2
I am assuming town will repeat that, as it was beneficial last game for us

I did have a PR night one, though, as I softclaimed in the previous post

I think these posts were an intentional screwup to seem like a townie who hadn't read the rules. In his mind, he's probably thinking, "No scum would blatantly screw up the rules like this; they'll definitely think I'm town!" I don't like it. Also never answered the question posed by MoI about why he did this. I'd love to see what he could come up with for reasoning.

^My view is pretty much the exact opposite of this. SB, have you ever played with Furc before?

I haven't. Is this something he does on a regular basis, whether he's scum or town? Anyone who has played with him can answer that, not just kdub.

[Stringer Bell]

@ Stringer Bell
You’re not off the hook. Who else do you think is suspicious? You can’t have just gotten ONE PERSON from this entire thread. Nice job hopping onto that wagon gaining steam, by the way.

Scum list:
Fourseen-it seems this wagon is slowly dying, just like all early D1 wagons. Not everyone has jumped off yet, but I just can't see this going to a lynch.

Just a wait a second here, Stringer. You don't say why Fourseen is scum, but instead you comment on "that his wagon has died down like most d1 wagons and you can't see a lynch happening". What in that makes him scum? Is it the fact that the wagon HAS died down, is it the fact that he's made bad posts? Please explain your scum read on Fourseen more in depth.

I've had a scum read on Fourseen since his crypto vote/unvote (ISO #2 and #4). Like I said before, that's about as blatant as it gets. A little pressure, and he backs off? That screams scum to me. I still believe he's scum, but his wagon is dying down and it seems like his lynch isn't going to happen today. Therefore, I voted a different suspect, Furcolow.

[Stringer Bell]

@Stringer

– Please elaborate on why Fourseen was scum to you in the first place. You’ve never given specific reasons, only generalizations.

Alright,,


So Diddin I don't know where you were going in your first post nor do I care...

Warrirmode do you have any sort of postrestriction?

Crypto, your counter case against Diddin fairly weak, but the case on you is even weaker. hmm ponder.....

But looking at the plan from Magna....... It seems like the case be...... you are likely a good target at least not a good informational lynch for town.

unvote. Vote: Crypto

hmmm..... Ponder.....

Crypto is a pretty active player and that is very helpful for the town early on to generate discussion and what not so I'd like to see him stick around.....

unvote

How does anyone look at this and not think that FC is scum? The conversation between these two posts is on page 8, with crypto, Junpei, and projectmatt immediately jumping on him for the first post (186). Then, he comes to the conclusion that because crypto is active, that means he should unvote him. How did he just come to this conclusion? Almost 200 posts in and he finally realizes that crypto is active? That makes no sense.

I've had a scum read on Fourseen since his crypto vote/unvote (ISO #2 and #4). Like I said before, that's about as blatant as it gets. A little pressure, and he backs off? That screams scum to me. I still believe he's scum, but his wagon is dying down and it seems like his lynch isn't going to happen today. Therefore, I voted a different suspect, Furcolow.

Ok, let me get this straight ...

Someone who changes their stance radically due to a little pressure is scum?

Like yourself who unvoted on the basis of speed of the wagon on Warrior, didn't revote, got suspicon for it, and suddenly found an even faster wagon to vote for?

I agree ...

MORE STRINGER VOTES PLEASE!!!

Series of events:

152-Mod puts out the third vote count of the day.
153-I look at the vote count and see that I still have my vote on FC. At this point, FC still hasn't done much of anything, so I take it off. I don't supply any other reads or another place for my vote.
159-In answer to Junpei's question, I did not, at that time, have a place to put my vote. I wasn't sure of the warriormode wagon, I didn't want to quicklynch him.
186-FC comes in with his terribad reasoning and votes crypto
196-FC unvotes, with the reasoning that crypto is an active player. My view of this is stated earlier in this post.
204-I vote FC, with the reasoning of "that's about as blatant as it gets."

This is where you have questions. You think that I succumbed to the pressure of Junpei needing a vote from me, and hence voted FC. You think that this is similar to how FC voted crypto and succumbed to the pressure of Junpei, crypto, and projectmatt and unvoted. Here is the difference: I did not take a crap case and vote FC just because Junpei asked me about why I didn't vote somebody after unvoting.

217-Kdub asks me why I was hesitant on the warrior wagon but was very quick to jump on the FC wagon. I didn't (and still don't) see a good case on warrior. The case on FC pretty much made itself.

Now, the FC wagon has pretty much come to a halt, the last few days have seen some people jump off of it. Unless FC comes back and posts some more material to incriminate himself, I don't see him being the final lynch for today, so I went back through, read and ISO'd some people, and came across the scum that is Furcolow.

[Stringer Bell]

EBWOP: Question to EVERYONE who didn't vote Fourseen: Why did you decide not to vote him?

[Stringer Bell]

Prod noted. Still following this game. Will be posting tomorrow morning.

Why the hell aren't you posting if you are following this game? Are you afraid anything you say will get you lynched?

No actually its not really a fear, Im used to getting called scummy for everything I say.
I just really don't have much to say. I understand people's reasons as to why I'm scummy, they're just wrong.
One thing i've been working on is a workdawg/ghostlin case that I hope to finish it soon.

Don't have much to say? There's a lot to talk about, imo. I'm interested to see how you work your Ghostlin case, but after you finish that: Why were you never on the Fourseen wagon? Do you not think what he did was scummy? Who else do you see as scummy, other than Ghostlin and Toogeloo (who your vote is on now)?

[Stringer Bell]

How does anyone look at this and not think that FC is scum?

Because despite how obviously derp it was I can’t see any viable scum motivation for it. What does he gain by attacking one of the most active and non-Newb players who had pretty much dormant wagon as opposed to hopping on Warrior or picking someone with almost no votes but lurking (take your pick, plenty out there) and call them scummy for lurking?

I disagree. I think that FC, in trying to look town, tried to pick a fight with one of the most active players. Because crypto posted so much, I think that FC thought he could find something in all his posts that made crypto look scummy. Hopping on a bandwagon after being largely inactive would have just gotten him a lot of suspicion, so I think he decided to go for crypto in lieu of jumping on a bandwagon.

This is where you have questions. You think that I succumbed to the pressure of Junpei needing a vote from me, and hence voted FC. You think that this is similar to how FC voted crypto and succumbed to the pressure of Junpei, crypto, and projectmatt and unvoted. Here is the difference:

I did not take a crap case and vote FC just because Junpei asked me about why I didn't vote somebody after unvoting.

It wasn’t just Junpei that suggested you were scummy for unvoting with no vote – RedCoyote also did and it dinged my scumdar when I read it.

Actually – I think you did just what the bolded says. You saw a derp posting series and pounced with a vague ‘as bad as it gets’ statement attached.

You see a derp posting series, I see scum backpedalling off their poorly placed vote.

153-I look at the vote count and see that I still have my vote on FC. At this point, FC still hasn't done much of anything, so I take it off. I don't supply any other reads or another place for my vote.
159-In answer to Junpei's question, I did not, at that time, have a place to put my vote. I wasn't sure of the warriormode wagon, I didn't want to quicklynch him.
186-FC comes in with his terribad reasoning and votes crypto
196-FC unvotes, with the reasoning that crypto is an active player. My view of this is stated earlier in this post.
204-I vote FC, with the reasoning of "that's about as blatant as it gets."

1. Why did you bother to unvote FC in the first place then? In the time you posted 153 he had a whopping two votes. No danger of a ‘quicklynch’.
2. Why didn’t you supply other reads or place the vote then? Is it your contention that nothing scummy had gone on?

1. I unvoted FC because there was no reason to have my vote on him. We were past RVS, I saw where my vote was, and I unvoted.
2. I saw the votecount and just unvoted. I didn't have the time to sit down and look for scum, I just checked the thread and unvoted when I saw that my RVS vote was still on FC. When I sat back down to look for scum, it was right there in front of me.

Not at the moment, I'm not sure of the warriormode wagon and don't want it to get out of hand this early in the day.

Nothing worse than quicklynching day 1.

This is your quote from 159.

Warrior got his first vote at post 40. He topped out the speed portion of his wagon at 6 votes by 147. So he gathered 6 votes in 108 posts (18 posts per vote gathered)

Fourseen, with no votes, makes the first of his bad posts at 186. He’s gathered 8 by post 213 from wazzatron. That’s 8 votes in 28 posts.(3.5 posts per vote gathered).

Is your stance that Fourseen’s wagon, which exploded at a rate approximately 5 times the pace of warrior’s wagon, isn’t a quicklynch?

Does your Day 1 quicklynching stance from 159 only apply to players you don’t think are scum?

I did not want to quicklynch warrior, I didn't really see the case on him, and quicklynching a bad case D1 didn't seem like the right play to me. I agree with you, Fourseen would have been a quicklynch if he had gotten the necessary votes, but I think that this is a good case, which is the difference between him and warriormode. You obviously disagree, as do a majority of players in the game, since Fourseen didn't get lynched, but I believe that what we've seen from Fourseen is enough to warrant a vote and a lynch. But if enough people don't see that Fourseen is scum by now, then (unless he shows up and starts being scummy again) there is no reason to keep my vote on him, so I moved it to another player who I thought was also scummy. We still haven't heard from Furcolow, so I'm still waiting on either a defense from him or some scumhunting.

[Stringer Bell]

I'm fairly new to this site, this is only my second game. I have operated up to this point under the assumption that everyone knows that they're doing and is a good player, so scummy posts are scummy, rather than dumb-town. Is this the wrong assumption to make?

[Stringer Bell]

I had seen someone reference scum being at six previously to me doing so
DGB is definitely scum, and I have deduced who are scum based on my list
I refuse to read until DGB is lynched

Thank you for reinforcing my vote on you.

[Stringer Bell]

Implosions' early posts made me think he was a great analytical and thorough player, but I suppose that is not the case as his recent posting is full of proclamations and waffling. Care to show up to the game Implosion, or is this how you always play?

It's a large game. I'm not going to comment on every player on day one.

I usually find it easier to do shit in large games after day one either way. Like in the first cyclic experiment. The town was basically depressed by like day three because we had no scumflips, but we eventually managed to gain momentum. As more info appears, it's easier to do stuff.

To add on to this point, while I didn't play in the first cyclic experiment, I did go back and skim through the game, trying to see what worked and what didn't. The thing I thought helped the town the most was the mapping out of all the abilities, but it takes a few nights of movement to see where the abilities go and to be able to draw any conclusions with the map.

[Stringer Bell]

Claim: Town, with a Hider for N1

[Stringer Bell]

Has Stringer explicitly stated that the Hider dies if it hides behind scum? Are we sure that it's not a Universal Hider that can hide behind anyone, because that doesn't confirm anyone.

Anyone who targets me with an action, that action will fail. If I hide behind someone who is not Eruci (which I guess includes the SK, if there is one like last game), then I die.

[Stringer Bell]

Catching up on reading, I

should

have a post tomorrow. For sure by Friday. I've got a lot of stuff coming up, four exams in the next two weeks, but I'll try to keep at caught up as possible throughout that time.