Animal Rescue: petsPick (Game Over!)

[jasonT1981]

hello, everyone!

vote:xvart

for being the first persons name I saw when closing my eyes, and opening them again with player list in front of me!

[jasonT1981]

Vote: Jason

I knew you couldn't resist!!

[jasonT1981]

KK clarify your vote on me.

Clarify your reads on everyone, please!

[jasonT1981]

Damn.

Mmkay, I like a Quilford wagon since he's got so much, yet so little to say

VOTE: Quilford

Ahhh, I am torn so much on Quilford when I play him, I can not stand him and his play style 99% of the time legit. But he does this a lot regardless of alignment, maybe slightly more so as town. In saying that I will push him to actually explain his reads as he always skates by doing this.

[jasonT1981]

C.E.S. Can you actually show us please? I am not really getting anything scummy on Quil. In fact, I would be more likely to examine the wagon on him for potential scum.

[jasonT1981]

Ummm.. just a quick question @Mod

Why is there 3 different colors in the vote count for people?

[jasonT1981]

Quick heads up - Going to be about less over the next few days until things get settled. . I start a new college course in the morning. Won't be about tomorrow evening as I am going for a midnight launch of Call of Duty MW3. Going to play things slow with the new course on MS until I can figure out how to balance things out schedule wise when I get my class schedule tomorrow.

[jasonT1981]

It's an attempt at making it easier to read. it alternates blue and purple. Not voting is in dark red

OOOOOH I see the pattern now. Nice!

[jasonT1981]

was pretty bad.

Jason's xvart vote was terrible but his posting after that feels more townish to me, so we'll see where that goes.

How so? it was a random vote in RVS. whats horrible about it, Sotty?

[jasonT1981]

l tell. But you were all over it like it was a massive thing. I don't see it. I think you blew it up.

Jason, I feel you over justified a throw away random vote, just twinged my gut which is why I voted you. I like to figure you out ASAP so I know if we can team up to destroy the world or not.

HAHA OK then. I know you always like to try and figure me out early. I usually put some comment in the random vote as to why, sometimes whitty, sometimes looking deadly serious.

Quilford - I also defend you as town, more so actually. 70s show was an exception to that. As scum I usually push for your lynch heavily I believe..

[jasonT1981]

Every single post of Jason's has struck me the wrong way, starting from his painfully awkward over-explained RVS to the fence rending his ass over the Quilford wagon. He states his thoughts on the Quilford wagon and then asks C.E.S. to explain - it read like "o hai i can get on wagon plz?" to me.

Given I stated Quil is more likely to do this as town.. I doubt how asking someone to explain their suspicions on Quil is me looking to try and get on the wagon.

Nice try but fail.

[jasonT1981]

Every single post of Jason's has struck me the wrong way, starting from his painfully awkward over-explained RVS to the fence rending his ass over the Quilford wagon. He states his thoughts on the Quilford wagon and then asks C.E.S. to explain - it read like "o hai i can get on wagon plz?" to me.

Given I stated Quil is more likely to do this as town.. I doubt how asking someone to explain their suspicions on Quil is me looking to try and get on the wagon.

Nice try but fail.

I know what you SAID, but your vibes said something else to me.

And what exactly did they say? Because what I said was what I said and nothing more.

[jasonT1981]

So, why would I defend him... only to jump on his wagon?

see the sense you are not making here?

[jasonT1981]

Emergancy V/LA. Sorry, urgent family issue.

[jasonT1981]

For the most part, yes. I get more serious as the game progresses.

78

fail.

[jasonT1981]

You unvote me, and tonight I will visit someone who will claim to have a dog (no full claim required, any dog will do)

Hmmm, I am not sure, but given dogs are stronger, than cats... this could be rolefishing.

[jasonT1981]

Since when? It's a good plan. Pie'd be proud.

Unvote, vote: jason

LOL... has this anything to do with me calling you out a few posts ago?

[jasonT1981]

I do think like Sotty said, Xvert is reaching. Many people post early reads (gut or otherwise) saying X is town, Y is scum just from the RVS and the fact he seems set on pushing Quil and Sotty on this is strange. I am keeping my vote on for now until he starts making sense and stops tunnelling this issue.

[jasonT1981]

Looks like I have missed a good bit in my absence. In class right now, so will be back on later tonight

[jasonT1981]

Like wise, didn't expect to come back to so much. Had to take a V/LA sorry, reluctant so say full reasons, but there was a family emergency. Doing a catch up now I am home once I get dinner finished up.

[jasonT1981]

Nothing in there says "vig" it just says he kills or gets killed. Aside from the kill factor nothing is even slightly "vigish". It's weak rolecop at best. I mean it's pretty obv that he's third party especially considering his claim says NOTHING about hamsters and rodents can be pets. WHAT THEN?!?!?!?!

It has a killing element to it, it is similar to a vig.

Oh dear...

Any role that claims to be able to kill another player can be generally referred to as a vig. Yes he hasn't claimed that he is a straight up vig, but to say he is a strange kinda role cop is just all sorts of wrong.

Role cops don't kill people.

Vigs kill people.

Correct, role cops get roles/allignments

serial killers and mafia also kill people. but with that claim there's no way he's an SK. .

Why, he could be SK only telling lies to make him look vig like.

Lewarcher82: "Gosh, I'm still alive. I don't know what happened, Mafia must have either roleblocked me or maybe glowball was lying about her dog-claim."

too much WIFOM.

A lot of my reads right now depend on what lewarcher82 flips.

what are your reads though?

I see no reason to assume scum have a roleblocker.

on day 1, how could you?

You would have to believe part of his claim. I don't believe it at all, it doesn't account for multiple pets or pets other than cats/dogs.

Then that will sort itself out... It's not a claim that makes sense to lynch today. I will oppose it until the eventual end of the day.

Agreed, let night actions resolve etc. Do not like how glowball is pushing this.

Anti town is ANTI TOWN. I'd rather not run someone else up Day 1 and that person claim something that isn't "a claim that makes sense to lynch today". Lewarcher might be scum, he might be SK what is obv is that he isn't town and that's better than potentially lynching a townie to see what happens.

While I agree, anti-town is anti-town, it makes sesne to eliminate scum and take out their powers first and their numbers first, a SK is only one person. Scum is multiple and can chat at night and gonig for scum first weakens that.. really not liking glowball.

I'll unvote and sheep you if you can give me a plausible explanation for why town-lewarcher82 would have said the above now that you know his full claim.

'Cause it's true.

Need a bit more than that.....

You guys are going to have to endure srs Quilford this game because of xvart. >___>

Let's consult the facts.

1.

zoraster posted that alignment was randomised. That means that people with a specific animal as their pet won't all be the same alignment unless random.org determined otherwise, which is highly improbable.

2.

lewarcher claimed to be a role who dies when he targets dogs and kills his target when he targets cats. That means lewarcher kills cats regardless of alignment.

Because he is killing

regardless of alignment

, it only makes sense that he is self-aligned..

No, scum can do this and so can town vig.

Because he is killing regardless of alignment, it only makes sense that he is self-aligned.

So vigilante kills usually just don't happen if they target town, huh?

Said it better, than what I meant to say above.

I'm sorry, you guys seem to be ignoring that he apparently targets pets arbitrarily.

you do have a point, but he does not know (for the most part) what he is targetting.

So far I believe Amrun is coming across town, as isQuil, really not sure what I make of claim, I don't think it is scum,. town and telling truth, or 3rd party. Right now we should let night actions resolve N1 and look for scum not 3rd party until later.

For the record, I'm not arguing that he is town. I'm arguing that his alignment cannot yet be determined for sure and that he is not the smartest lynch for today.

Why would you leave a third party role like SK alive on Day 1?

Because scum have greater numbers, and can talk. Better to cut one of the heads of first. SK is on his own if he is SK, no one to plan with etc.

For the record, I'm not arguing that he is town. I'm arguing that his alignment cannot yet be determined for sure and that he is not the smartest lynch for today.

Why would you leave a third party role like SK alive on Day 1?

You can lynch SK day 1, but if you never lynch scum after that, you still lose. It's much better to lynch SCUM. An SK lynch is a very-little-information flip. Town can harness him to do their bidding under threat of death, as well. If he disobeys, he dies.

For example, tonight, we can tell him who to target.

this, why waste a lynch, when it is very much testable in night.

For the record, I'm not arguing that he is town. I'm arguing that

his alignment cannot yet be determined

for sure and that he is not the smartest lynch for today.

Why would you leave a third party role like SK alive on Day 1?

your logic:
we cannot prove he's town therefore he MUST be scum

ladies and gentlemen, it's the argumentum ad ignorantiam fallacy in the wild! shh! don't disturb it or it will run away and we can't make fun of it.

this....

This is probably the most compelling case on why we should lynch Lew, his behavior leading up to and after the claim is just terrible. Making excuses to keep him alive "just in case" seem poor when Lew himself isn't willing to actually do anything to help the town.

Yes, this is an intent to hammer.

While it is a good case, I disagree, I don't believe Lew to be scum.

ftr I think if lew flips scum, Ghostlin comes out looking worse than Amrun. Amrun's reactions look like misguided town to me.

Ghost is coming out looking worse anyway regardless.

I also hate that the last page or so has been heavy in the set up spec. I feel Lew is totally distracting us all from scum hunting and instead we'll bicker about "optimal strategies".

agreed on this, it has taken away from scum hunting, and scum are no doubt loving it assuming Lew isn't scum.

Also:

Govern: lewarcher

Booyah.

urgh... fuck.

You can lynch SK day 1, but if you never lynch scum after that, you still lose. It's much better to lynch SCUM. An SK lynch is a very-little-information flip. Town can harness him to do their bidding under threat of death, as well. If he disobeys, he dies.

For example, tonight, we can tell him who to target.

And you can lynch all the scum players you want, but you don't lynch a hostile third party role, town still loses.

Why are we having this conversation? I'm not even heavily invested in if he's an SK or not, I believe he's scum.

Yes, but lynhing scum first over 3rd party makes sense. As I have stated before.

@Cogito Ergo Sum - Why are you so terrible at this game? Why waste a governance on someone who is clearly scum and you would lynch tomorrow anyways?

While it confused me at first, makes sense in a way, lt night actions resolve, find out who he targetted, match up to a dog/cat and look elsewhere. If the person he targets claims dog, and he isn't dead, we know he is lying. I don't believe the govorn still though.



agreed, but the less he knows, the better chance we have of testing it in the night and findign out the truth

You do realize this entire discussion has been made moot by my governing lew, right?

EXCEPT HE HAD NOT BEEN LYNCHED, AND GOVORN POWERS ONLY COME IN, IN TWILIGHT WHEN THE LYNCH HAS HAPPENED.

He could also be town. I just don't really think he's an SK.

yiou are very quiet, like you are hiding away. this also seems very wishy washy stance on the situation.

VOTE: Quilford

Any reasons, there is a lot going on, you are gettign very suspicious with your lack of content.

Not in this case, nope.

Okay Amrun is town but we should ignore her anyway

agreed on town part. but not the second

WHY ISN'T LEW LYNCHED?!?!?!?!

Come on guys. Just lynch him and be happy!

Glowball coming in, ignoring everything and calling for lynch... yea... scummy

He's been governed...

no, he wasnt at the required votes (i dont beleive)

Amrun, you seem different...

Amrun, you seem different...

How so? I didn't let them lynch your arguably worse claim in Modern Family mafia, either. 'Cause it's dumb.

p-edit:

lol

That's true, but your attitude seems off.

again nothing from glow..

So CES totally has one post to clarify whether he actually governed lewarcher, since zoraster didn't visibly register anything. I'll pay my end forward.

Apparently, zorzor is a stickler for using the provided syntax.

Governate: lewarcher

again, not required aount of votes.

Don't like Quilford "Pretty sure glowball is scum if lewarcher is scum."
Quilford's overall approach feels town though. My vote isn't placed well. FIXFIXFIX

I LOVE CAFFEINE

p. edit:
I'll hammer him if I can really really convince myself he's scum.

aain, nothing...

OK, the govorn is lies... one main reason, none of the times Lew was at Lynch, it was always -1 or -2.

VOTE: DDDP
Yay I'm voting scum now!

are you even playing, or trollign?

caught up reads

Town reads

Amrun
Quilford
Tripod

Leaning town

Sotty

Null/Unsure

Vi
Reck

Leaning scum/Scummy/3rd party

Lew
Cogito

Scum

llamarble
Ghostlin
Glowball

with all that said, llamarble is doing nothing, ghost is being very scummy glowball is uber scummy. I could go on either one of these 3, and test Lew claim in night.

vote:Glowball

Again, sorry for beign away so long, had a family issue.

[jasonT1981]

Jason - I don't know what your actual position on lewarcher is since you vacillate throughout that post. Is he town or scum?

I don't get why you think Ghostlin is scum either, can I get the sparknotes version of that?

Neither on instinct, I believe him to be 3rd party but not worth the lynch. We can cut a head of scum and weaken them, rather than lynch a role that can end up killing itself in the night.

Ghostlin has just been giving me bad vibes, nothing substancial to go on, but worth looking at down the line. Glowball, and llamarble would be my best two picks for hitting scum.

EBYOP: Fair point Sotty, I didn't actually realize the wagon on llamarble.

unvote
vote:llamarble

[jasonT1981]

Because, he does not know who he is targetting (cat or dog)

We can get him to tell us tomorrow (if alive) who he targetted if a cat did not die. And then match that up to whatever his claimed target says. If person targetted says they are a dog, then boom... we lynch.

Today though, I would rather lynch who I feel is scum. Not 3rd party. Scum get benefit of talking in night, planning etc... cutting scum off first is essential. 3rd party only has themselves to talk and plan with... hence scum is the bigger threat.

[jasonT1981]

We can get him to tell us tomorrow (if alive) who he targetted if a cat did not die. And then match that up to whatever his claimed target says. If person targetted says they are a dog, then boom... we lynch.

he would be dead. this makes no sense.

no, we would know he is lying in his role... that is what I am meaning.

[jasonT1981]

so

who wants to test it?

Zorzor'll announce it, no worries.

there were vote counts and no mention of it from the mod after this...

Of course my govern works outside of twilight. Zorzor's just being a syntax nazi; he'll tell you all about in the next VC.

So I don't believe this.

Has anyone else ever seen a governor who can pardon a lynch before it happens, or out of twilight?

[jasonT1981]

Alright, but why have your reads reversed after the night? any reasons you care to give?

Scum:

Jason - II had town on him early but I was totally wrong. 135, 161, the quote striping post is just amazing and the glowball vote is :terrible:
Would Jason make that level of wall as scum / town?

Just to respond to this now as I didnt get to do this before night fall D1.

1) Yes, I would do it regardless of alignment, it is called a catch up post, given I was away due to personal issues for the best part of last week there had been a lot going on.
2) My vote on glowball was terrible? hmmmm I do recall naming Glowball as one of my top scum suspects. How is it then horrible?

I also noticed this, again seemignly protecting Glowball

Pretty sure glowball is scum if lewarcher is scum.

Hated this.

Yea, I am now quite happy there is a connection between Glowball/Llamarable. I had both as scum yesterday. I still want to take a look at Ghostlin also today.

vote: Llamarable.

Don't agree with Sotty about tripod being a good vote, I have him as town. Cogito is someone also I believe should be looked at today.

[jasonT1981]

IF I get a chance this weekend, I am going to go back and examine the connection further between Glow/LLam and see if there is any mote buddying/protection going on here. I believe there is a connection, which I have outlined above.

[jasonT1981]

She does have a point though, Tripod... about your thoughts on scum.

[jasonT1981]

Alright, looking at glowball/Llamarble connection, I begin with Llamarble

Also, this is petsPick!

Tell me about your actual pets, no details of course. Just sharing, I'll go first. I have a puppy she's about 1.5 years and I LOVE HER she is fluffy and adorable!

This is a terrible idea. This equates you claiming a fluffy and adorable puppy. How is it possible that you do not realise this? And besides, this is fishing. Say that someone tells you that his dog is a German Shepherd who can find anything when he follows his nose. You will just assume that this person is likely a cop. Now I am forced to wonder which one is the explanation of your behaviour. (1) Reckless town - who just won the "VI of the game" trophy despite quil's efforts or (2) fishy scum.

If knowing who cats are gives you vigging powers, wouldn't that be grounds for species-claim?

Here defending Glowballs call for claims.

posting to say I exist but not reading this game til tomorrow

It's tomorrow, and you're the only one not voting and neither is "roxi" so I'm assuming the vote belongs to you?

IDK... care to comment on this?

Hahaha truly you are fishy mcfisherwoman.
And 'oh man I'll own the VI label!' can be read as "YES! AN EXCUSE TO BE ANTI-TOWN."

Glowball is town.

defence of Glow again, calling her town.

More defending of Glow

Jason - II had town on him early but I was totally wrong. 135, 161, the quote striping post is just amazing and the glowball vote is :terrible:

Pretty sure glowball is scum if lewarcher is scum.

Hated this.

now to look at Glowball...Glow has made no mention of Llamarble the entire game, nor made any reference to any Llamarble posting, quotes from Alright, looking at glowball/Llamarble connection, I begin with Llamarble

Also, this is petsPick!

Tell me about your actual pets, no details of course. Just sharing, I'll go first. I have a puppy she's about 1.5 years and I LOVE HER she is fluffy and adorable!

This is a terrible idea. This equates you claiming a fluffy and adorable puppy. How is it possible that you do not realise this? And besides, this is fishing. Say that someone tells you that his dog is a German Shepherd who can find anything when he follows his nose. You will just assume that this person is likely a cop. Now I am forced to wonder which one is the explanation of your behaviour. (1) Reckless town - who just won the "VI of the game" trophy despite quil's efforts or (2) fishy scum.

If knowing who cats are gives you vigging powers, wouldn't that be grounds for species-claim?

Here defending Glowballs call for claims.

posting to say I exist but not reading this game til tomorrow

It's tomorrow, and you're the only one not voting and neither is "roxi" so I'm assuming the vote belongs to you?

IDK... care to comment on this?

Hahaha truly you are fishy mcfisherwoman.
And 'oh man I'll own the VI label!' can be read as "YES! AN EXCUSE TO BE ANTI-TOWN."

Glowball is town.

defence of Glow again, calling her town.

More defending of Glow

Jason - II had town on him early but I was totally wrong. 135, 161, the quote striping post is just amazing and the glowball vote is :terrible:

Pretty sure glowball is scum if lewarcher is scum.

Hated this.

now to look at Glowball...Glow has made no mention of Llamarble the entire game, nor made any reference to any Llamarble posting...

I 100% believe there to be a connection or even through quotes within quotes....

I 100% believe there to be a connection

[jasonT1981]

Vote: Llam

While he's posted more analysis than he did last night, he's not really backed it up, and spent most of Day 1 being The Load.

This is A. Wrong and B. Not really relevant to my alignment.

But is a comment on your gameplay, which is showing you to be doing very little... therefor is relevant.

[jasonT1981]

VP is scum except for the "I have role information suggesting Lew's claim is false" thing.
Then again I guess as scum with a non cat / dog I could say something like that.
VOTE: VP Baltar

can you outline a proper case, please.

I may have started late, but I already have the third highest post count in the thread.

2rd highest post count doesn't mean squat when you aint producing any content to back that up.

[jasonT1981]

3rd*

[jasonT1981]

I seriously beg to differ......

[jasonT1981]

I hate it when I agree with a wagon but the reasoning/people on the wagon are flawed. JasonT is making no sense which is making it hard for me to get behind this wagon.

What is not making sense to you?

[jasonT1981]

He has been defending Glowball non stop
Glowball has not mentioned or even referenced him.

I had the two of them as scum day 1... I see this as a connection to further my read on them both as scum.

[jasonT1981]

He has been defending Glowball non stop
Glowball has not mentioned or even referenced him.

I had the two of them as scum day 1... I see this as a connection to further my read on them both as scum.

Exactly, JasonT you are looking for reasons to add to both of us being scum. It's confirmation bias.

thats how you look for scum, you make connections between people.

[jasonT1981]

Except you aren't looking anywhere else.

. You already think we're both scum so when I write something you are waiting to find ANYTHING scummy about it- obv by the weak "connection" Llam and I have.

Oh really??

Yea, I am now quite happy there is a connection between Glowball/Llamarable. I had both as scum yesterday.

I still want to take a look at Ghostlin also today.

vote: Llamarable.

Don't agree with Sotty about tripod being a good vote, I have him as town.

Cogito is someone also I believe should be looked at today.

[jasonT1981]

You are making it look like I am only looking at you and LLam, when I have other suspects.. . Your over defensive is noted and interersting.

[jasonT1981]

Glowball - tell me about things other than Jason please.

Well, I had dinner with my family last night it was pretty awesome. I mean what would you like me to tell you? This question is lame. Be specific, and tbh I am still sorting out my reads but I don't think to highly of you if that is what you are looking for.

So you want... reads? I have none worth sharing at this point. I'll let you know when I do.

Fluff and pointless posting. Avoidign questions and so far into this game still without reads or reasons for them Completly avoided Sottys question and danced around it with non game related stuff then so far into the game nothing worth sharing?

Yea, you're not town.

[jasonT1981]

And what point would that be.

And what would be this reason for avoiding questions?

[jasonT1981]

Glowball, maybe instead of doing theis whole 'confirmation bias' and 'I won't be satisfied because I think you are scum' How about actually trying to answer the case on you for being scum, instead of avoiding everything and playing the oh woe is me crap.

[jasonT1981]

It was VP question, not Sotty. My mistake on that.

Glowball - tell me about things other than Jason please.

Well, I had dinner with my family last night it was pretty awesome. I mean what would you like me to tell you? This question is lame. Be specific, and tbh I am still sorting out my reads but I don't think to highly of you if that is what you are looking for.

So you want... reads? I have none worth sharing at this point. I'll let you know when I do.

Fluff and pointless posting. Avoidign questions and so far into this game still without reads or reasons for them Completly avoided Sottys question and danced around it with non game related stuff then so far into the game nothing worth sharing?

Yea, you're not town.

[jasonT1981]

God damn it! I had a post made, and my browser crashed losing it. Anyway, short of it.

Going to look more in depth tomorrow and Cog and Ghostlin by ISOing them.

Unsure on the VP thing. D1 he was a non entity to the point I forgot he was in this game and I was focusing elsewhere.

The census taker is slightly different from what I have seen before. In the past, It was used to determine how many scum was on a lynch wagon. I still see Quilford as town. Scum has no reason really to out themselves that much. Unless Quilford is scum, and fucking with us. But I read him as town so I doubt it.

Sotty/VP what game are you talking about, and how relevant is it to this game, meta wise?

Amrun, did the census taker work like this in DDD's game you talk about?

@ Amrun again, how does my push not seem genuine?

more tomorrow evening after college and Car getting its MOT test.

[jasonT1981]

I lost my post but I have to say that there is something fishy going on with Jason, LLamarble, and glowball. Whenever I read their love triangle I feel like at least one person, if not tow, are operating on more information than a town member should have at this point.

The whole Jason pushing glowball while voting Llamarble looks to me like he is more convinced that the person he isn't voting is scum which doesn't work with where his vote actually is

. Also, spilling over from my suspicions yesterday:

VOTE: Jason

I also think VPB is town.

See, thats the issue.... I can have more than one scum read I can push, but only have one vote.

[jasonT1981]

can we talk more about DDDP's "not being scummy is scummy" idea? Because it seems like that's mildly important to note.

I do think he has a point in that scum would try and blend in, not try to act scummy, and let a lynch happen on a scummy player. HOWEVER lynches are based on what is scummy, and not what is not scummy. And without anything else on you, the fact he tries to push it, is scummy.

[jasonT1981]

Then shouldn't you be voting Ghostlin?

Yeah, probably.
VOTE: Ghostlin
Though I'm not really sure out of VP / Ghostlin / Xvart who's going to flip scum the hardest.
Right now I feel like all of them will.

Don't like this post, not from Amrun, he has every right to call it. but from LLam, doesn't vote.. gets called out and then votes. Seems weak to me

[jasonT1981]

You, I was saying it wasn't your post but Llam that seemed off to me. Since I was quoting two posts.

[jasonT1981]

I am still here, not got a chance to catch up on anything the past few days. Been in class. Normal services can resume for me on Monday

[jasonT1981]

Jason - I don't know what your actual position on lewarcher is since you vacillate throughout that post. Is he town or scum?

I don't get why you think Ghostlin is scum either, can I get the sparknotes version of that?

Neither on instinct, I believe him to be 3rd party but not worth the lynch. We can cut a head of scum and weaken them, rather than lynch a role that can end up killing itself in the night.

Jason, why did you think Lew was 3rd party over mafia?

Also can you elaborate on your Ghostlin read? I'm interested.

Alright, I guess my 3rd party views on Lew where more because of suggestion from others saying we should lynch etc right away 3rd party. It got me thinking he was 3rd party or at least I did believe he was in anti-town role, just not scum. I agree he had things to answer, and can understand the push for his lynch however Ghost pushing lets lynch 3rd party now! was off.

Town should take out scum first and worry about possible 3rd party after. Taking out a possible or suspected 3rd party, who 99% of the time operates on him own should be second to taking out a scum role. Scum get the chance to talk in night (And day in some cases depending on mod) So to take scum out, cut one of their links making sure they can no longer give input to scum planning in their QT is more important to town.

Ghost seemed to want to push ahead and seemed more interested in 3rd party lynches than actually taking out scum.

My course ended today, I would disagree I was lurking, I have not really been around too much on MS lately in all my games, only popping in to check on my current modded game. And make a quick comment here and there if I can. But, now course is over I have no more homework I can fully focus on games again.

[jasonT1981]

Alright, I guess my 3rd party views on Lew where more because of suggestion from others saying we should lynch etc right away 3rd party. It got me thinking he was 3rd party or at least I did believe he was in anti-town role, just not scum.

I agree he had things to answer, and can understand the push for his lynch however Ghost pushing lets lynch 3rd party now! was off.

Show your working.

Ghostlin, what's your case on Llama? Bullets points will be fine.

My big catch up D1 post had my points on that. I will isolate the comments tomorrow afternoon if you don't want to go back and look at it. It is quite in the middle of everything.

[jasonT1981]

Will be back fully tomorrow. Been out a bit this weekend.

[jasonT1981]

Glowball ISO seems to show her sitting on sidelines, not wanting to give opinions and cheering on a lynch

WHY ISN'T LEW LYNCHED?!?!?!?!

Come on guys. Just lynch him and be happy!

but wait..

So you want... reads? I have none worth sharing at this point. I'll let you know when I do.

no reads eh?

I want Jason lynched.

now we have reads, after pressure... not explaining any of them... and giving a BS reason as to why

Okay I am not very good at explaining how my brain works but I will try my best to at least give you some indication of where I am at.

Scum:
Jason
CES
Xvart

On my radar:
Ghostlin
VP
Llamarble
Vi
Amrun

I am never really good at explaining how I get reads on people, which is probably why I'm so bad at this game but there are my thoughts.

Mmkay reasons why my lynch shouldn't even be considered today:

Scratch that! There's really only one main reason, my lynch won't help you with anything at all. When I flip town you'll have just as little information to go off of as you do now.

It's pretty obvious that Jason should be lynched, since he's scum and it gives us information. Llam COULD be lynched solely based on the information we'd get.

Fails to give reasons why she should not be lynched, appeals to emotion, then again tunnels me

Actually I takke back my previous statement, if we aren't going to lynch scum (Jason) then lynching me is fine.

for someone with no reads, Glowball really is lookign me lyched....oh look below.

Can someone tell me why we aren't lynching Jason?

Glowball has done NO scum hunting, repeated failures to answer questions... refuses to give reads, then shouts Why isn't (X) lynched.

Glowball... reasons for my lynch please, a full, thought out case. Bullet-points would be good. No crying because you are scum... A full case now please!

[jasonT1981]

We're not sure the third party is a killing role or not.
But yeah, VP being blocked on a night where there weren't as many kills as expected increases the odds he's scum.

Did Llamarble just claim Serial Killer?

As much as I believe a Llam lynch is good, I don't see how... it is more WIFOM... look only one kill, less than expected... VP was blocked so he must be scum.

Rubbish reasoning.

[jasonT1981]

Actually right now I am more comfortable with a Glowball lynch than Llam.. at least he is trying to play the game. She is just sitting on sidelines screaming for a lynch of anyone... D1 and D2.

unvote
vote: Glowball

[jasonT1981]

We're not sure the third party is a killing role or not.
But yeah, VP being blocked on a night where there weren't as many kills as expected increases the odds he's scum.

Why are we still discussing stuff like this, there is still no evedience there is 3rd party, is there? right now, scum is the focus. All this is distracting from scum hunting with the WIFOM rubbish about less kills, means VP = scum because he was blocked.

For all we know, there is only one killing faction/role. Only way to establish that info is over longer terms. D2, with only one night for evedience is not worth looking at now... IF in future days there are more than one kill, then yes.. this needs looked at. But now, all the speculation is just that.

Right now, I am looking for scum.

[jasonT1981]

We're not sure the third party is a killing role or not.
But yeah, VP being blocked on a night where there weren't as many kills as expected increases the odds he's scum.

Why are we still discussing stuff like this, there is still no evedience there is 3rd party, is there? right now, scum is the focus. All this is distracting from scum hunting with the WIFOM rubbish about less kills, means VP = scum because he was blocked.

For all we know, there is only one killing faction/role. Only way to establish that info is over longer terms. D2, with only one night for evedience is not worth looking at now... IF in future days there are more than one kill, then yes.. this needs looked at. But now, all the speculation is just that.

Right now, I am looking for scum.

..Then you're saying you don't believe the Census Taker's Census?

Ah crap, yes sorry....

[jasonT1981]

OK, yes looking back I am wrong, I forgot Quilford took a census.

Still though, the VP was blocked, there was not as many kills as 'expected' therefor VP is scum... is just pure crazy.

though, LLam, how do you know there were less kills than expected to be? it is complete WIFOM and something I would expect from scum to parade out there.

I believe Glowball is scum for her cheerleading on lynches, and LLam is scum partly due to him trying to add confusion to the town.

[jasonT1981]

Actually right now I am more comfortable with a Glowball lynch than Llam.. at least he is trying to play the game. She is just sitting on sidelines screaming for a lynch of anyone... D1 and D2.

unvote
vote: Glowball

Actually I don't want ANYONE lynched. I want YOU lynched.

If that quote of nothingness on this page is a "case"... no I won't be making one of those. If I actually sit down and go through all of your posts to make a case it will be when I have time. No one pressured me for my reads, in fact a wagon hasn't even ever been formed against me.

I don't like to share all of my thoughts because frankly I can't always explain them

. There's a tone to your posts, there are your actions towards other players and vice versa.

It's something that I think takes a lot of time to explain and I prefer to let the chips fall before I go all in.

bold red: in other words, fence sit and wait for a wagon to form, and jump on.
bold blue: Again, just shouting for a lynch without any reasoning to anything. You did the same for Lew on D1.
bold green: then you need to try harder. If you really want me lynched, you sure as hell better do some explaining and if you are not going to do that, then you are not going to get me lynched.

[jasonT1981]

I believe if submitted N1, he would have gotten the entire results from D1 on the setup.

[jasonT1981]

Its just a feeling, as I said I have never seen this role before, nor how it works. I am going to try and find it on Wiki

[jasonT1981]

ooooh interesting, you could be onto something

http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?tit ... d_Role_PMs

Census
You may take a census, thus discovering the number of [Pro-Town] players, [Anti-Town] players, and [Neutral] players

that are alive at the end of the current night phase

. You will receive a Private Message from the moderator containing the number of [Pro-Town], [Anti-Town], and [Neutral] that are alive.

Quilford?

[jasonT1981]

It does list it as a pro town role though.

[jasonT1981]

If we go 3 or so more night with no evidence of a third party, then maybe it's time to talk. Not now.

completly agree

[jasonT1981]

It was just the fact he made a 3rd party section in his reads on day one,

before

we had Quilford's results. I always get a slight twitch when people start throwing out 3rd party. On day one there is no reason you should be looking for 3rd parties.

Actually, Sotty. I was not the one throwing out 3rd party. It had been discussed many times before I even gave my reads I believe.

[jasonT1981]

Jason - I'm having trouble finding any serious scumhunting (or non-fluff, really) from him other than his attacks on glowball/llamamarble. In addition, when he gave his reads in his catch-up post, he didn't give reads for DDD, xvart, KK, or VPB. Since three of those are also on my scumlist it struck me as odd.

KK was town. I thought I had him listed as town, as I had said in catch up he was. DDD, VPB and Xvart were really non entities that didn't pick up on anything D1 from, hence not being on the list. In retrospect they should have been in a null catagory.

[jasonT1981]

It was just the fact he made a 3rd party section in his reads on day one,

before

we had Quilford's results. I always get a slight twitch when people start throwing out 3rd party. On day one there is no reason you should be looking for 3rd parties.

Actually, Sotty. I was not the one throwing out 3rd party. It had been discussed many times before I even gave my reads I believe.

Yeah...

Why aren't you more awesome in this game though? I wanted to team up and everything.

Who are your scum reads outside Glow? What is your opinion of Xvart's case on you?

Xvarts case is a load of rubbish, with his claims of me covering for Quilford simply becauise I stated my opinion on how I thought the role worked. And then went to look it up to see about it being wrong/right. His post 619 at me was redicilious.

I lost my post but I have to say that there is something fishy going on with Jason, LLamarble, and glowball. Whenever I read their love triangle I feel like at least one person, if not tow, are operating on more information than a town member should have at this point.

The whole Jason pushing glowball while voting Llamarble looks to me like he is more convinced that the person he isn't voting is scum which doesn't work with where his vote actually is

. Also, spilling over from my suspicions yesterday:

VOTE: Jason

I also think VPB is town.

See, thats the issue.... I can have more than one scum read I can push, but only have one vote.

Xvart D1 was a non entity to me, but has joined Ghostlin (already said) LLam (already said) on my scum list. VP I am still not fully sure on and is going in the leaning scummy pile.

[jasonT1981]

Hey, sorry was away yesterday for the most part. Will post later.

[jasonT1981]

I have hardly been posting in other games since Wednesday, the ONLY game I have been actively posting in is my own game I am modding.

IN FACT both other games I am in, last posts were Wednesday and Thursday, the Thursday one being a 1 line post..

So please, stop lying.

[jasonT1981]

No.... you are distorting things. you make it out as if I am posting actively in games while not here, when my last post in the game you are referencing was Thursday and like this game had nothing else until today from me. The only one I had been active in Since Wed/Thursday was my own modded game to post vote counts.

No other game had any posts from me until today, after Wed/Thursday.

So stop making out like I was avoiding this game and posing actively in others, when a simple look at my posts from my profile will confirm I had not posted in any other game since Wednesday or Thursday. With the exception of my own to post VC.

[jasonT1981]

While I still think Sotty is town, I do question her vote on me. It seemed to come after pressure to clarify her stance on me when she was questioned about her tiers and read on me etc.

Anyway, I am actually quite content we will hit scum with Ghost, out of him and Xvart I would rather lynch Ghostlin. He has been a scum read for me since my catchup post D1 and has done little to convince me otherwise. Glowball and Xvart can be looked at tomorrow in more detail. I feel we will hit at least 2 scum from those 3.

unvote
vote: Ghostlin

[jasonT1981]

Good lord. That's it?

No, its L-1. Not lynch.

[jasonT1981]

Umm... Jason isn't my second scum read. Are you even reading what I post? He's like 4th at best.

So if I am 4th at best... WHY are you voting me?

It's true that you being roleblocked last night does rule you out as the killsubmitter if only one kill was submitted.
My vote is definitely based on dayplay read rather than night action.

I see it as the other way around.

jason (mistakenly labeled saulres in 970) can vote xvart too.

Put your votes where your mouth is.

please don't try to direct my vote... I don't like it when people do this.

seems to me like Ghostlin is a much more viable wagon than xvart

Yea, I agree... Xvart and Glow need looked at heavily tomorrow though

saulres looks really bad with her push on me over posting.

Anyone can see here

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/search.p ... 5&sr=posts

that I had no posts in any other game from Thursday until today with the exception of my own modded game to post VC

[jasonT1981]

So if I am 4th at best... WHY are you voting me?

Deadline.

Who are your other suspects again?

[jasonT1981]

fair enough. Xvart only came on my radar D2. Ghost has been on it since D1 which is why my vote is there as opposed to Xvart. I would hardly call it lurking though, the line between not actually being about as much and lurking seems to be blured. The only game that had any real attention from me was my own one.

[jasonT1981]

saulres, the point i am trying to make is you are making it as if I wass active all over Thursday/friday/today with your 15 posts

from

thursday. The last of 15 posts or whatever the number was, was Thursday, not FROM thursday. there is a huge difference.

My last post in any game was thursday, and my last in this game, and another wednesday. You are trying to push it that I was ignoring this game completly, while constantly ignoring here when it shows I was not active from thursday until today in ANY game.

They was you worded it, really makes it show that you are saying I was active from Thursday until today. Which is completley a misrep

[jasonT1981]

Jason lynch > Ghostlin lynch because a probscum lynch is better than a probtown lynch.

Read Jason's ISO. Hell, just read his first post of the game. He's scum.

How is this scummy

hello, everyone!

vote:xvart

for being the first persons name I saw when closing my eyes, and opening them again with player list in front of me!

[jasonT1981]

Jason lynch > Ghostlin lynch because a probscum lynch is better than a probtown lynch.

Read Jason's ISO. Hell, just read his first post of the game. He's scum.

you also contradict yourself here

Prob Scum

is scum

which is it?

[jasonT1981]

Jason, you're just not getting it. I never claimed the problem was only from Thanksgiving forward. I'm saying it's been going on for a while. For example, let's look at last weekend, specifically Nov 20.

I am V/LA all weekends...

[jasonT1981]

I check in at various times at weekend, but it is commonly known that I am away most weekends. I can't check in every game, sometimes yes I do get to read a bit and reply, sometimes not. I am sure there are times in this game that I post more than in others. The fact you are pushing my activity in OTHER games because you actually have a weak ass case on me is pitiful.

I CANT CHECK EVERY GAME AT EVERYTIME.... I AM V/LA EVERY WEEKEND AND CHECK IN WHEN I CAN.

I should also remind you, discussing on going games is a dangerous ground and not allowed and we are taking it too far now. Are you telling me that there are never times you get further behind in one game, while being caught up in another?

[jasonT1981]

Jason lynch > Ghostlin lynch because a probscum lynch is better than a probtown lynch.

Read Jason's ISO. Hell, just read his first post of the game. He's scum.

you also contradict yourself here

Prob Scum

is scum

which is it?

Are you really trying to form something from me saying "probscum" over scum? I think you are scum Jason. I want you lynched. Can you answer my question please?

No, just pointing out a contridction.

What other question?

[jasonT1981]

Jason, what is your current read on Llam?

this? I think it is very clear my position on Llam already.

[jasonT1981]

Jason, what is your current read on Llam?

this? I think it is very clear my position on Llam already.

Obviously it isn't. Could you tell me what you think of Llam at this point in the game?

How is it not clear? considering I even linked the two of you earlier this day, you argued with me over it... and I have had him as a scum read since D1... even voting him today.

How is it not clear?

Spoiler:

Scum

llamarble
Ghostlin
Glowball

with all that said, llamarble is doing nothing, ghost is being very scummy glowball is uber scummy. I could go on either one of these 3, and test Lew claim in night.

Jason - I don't know what your actual position on lewarcher is since you vacillate throughout that post. Is he town or scum?

I don't get why you think Ghostlin is scum either, can I get the sparknotes version of that?

Neither on instinct, I believe him to be 3rd party but not worth the lynch. We can cut a head of scum and weaken them, rather than lynch a role that can end up killing itself in the night.

Ghostlin has just been giving me bad vibes, nothing substancial to go on, but worth looking at down the line. Glowball, and llamarble would be my best two picks for hitting scum.

EBYOP: Fair point Sotty, I didn't actually realize the wagon on llamarble.

unvote
vote:llamarble

Alright, but why have your reads reversed after the night? any reasons you care to give?

Scum:

Jason - II had town on him early but I was totally wrong. 135, 161, the quote striping post is just amazing and the glowball vote is :terrible:
Would Jason make that level of wall as scum / town?

Just to respond to this now as I didnt get to do this before night fall D1.

1) Yes, I would do it regardless of alignment, it is called a catch up post, given I was away due to personal issues for the best part of last week there had been a lot going on.
2) My vote on glowball was terrible? hmmmm I do recall naming Glowball as one of my top scum suspects. How is it then horrible?

I also noticed this, again seemignly protecting Glowball

Pretty sure glowball is scum if lewarcher is scum.

Hated this.

Yea, I am now quite happy there is a connection between Glowball/Llamarable. I had both as scum yesterday. I still want to take a look at Ghostlin also today.

vote: Llamarable.

Don't agree with Sotty about tripod being a good vote, I have him as town. Cogito is someone also I believe should be looked at today.

IF I get a chance this weekend, I am going to go back and examine the connection further between Glow/LLam and see if there is any mote buddying/protection going on here. I believe there is a connection, which I have outlined above.

Alright, looking at glowball/Llamarble connection, I begin with Llamarble

Also, this is petsPick!

Tell me about your actual pets, no details of course. Just sharing, I'll go first. I have a puppy she's about 1.5 years and I LOVE HER she is fluffy and adorable!

This is a terrible idea. This equates you claiming a fluffy and adorable puppy. How is it possible that you do not realise this? And besides, this is fishing. Say that someone tells you that his dog is a German Shepherd who can find anything when he follows his nose. You will just assume that this person is likely a cop. Now I am forced to wonder which one is the explanation of your behaviour. (1) Reckless town - who just won the "VI of the game" trophy despite quil's efforts or (2) fishy scum.

If knowing who cats are gives you vigging powers, wouldn't that be grounds for species-claim?

Here defending Glowballs call for claims.

posting to say I exist but not reading this game til tomorrow

It's tomorrow, and you're the only one not voting and neither is "roxi" so I'm assuming the vote belongs to you?

IDK... care to comment on this?

Hahaha truly you are fishy mcfisherwoman.
And 'oh man I'll own the VI label!' can be read as "YES! AN EXCUSE TO BE ANTI-TOWN."

Glowball is town.

defence of Glow again, calling her town.

More defending of Glow

Jason - II had town on him early but I was totally wrong. 135, 161, the quote striping post is just amazing and the glowball vote is :terrible:

Pretty sure glowball is scum if lewarcher is scum.

Hated this.

now to look at Glowball...Glow has made no mention of Llamarble the entire game, nor made any reference to any Llamarble posting, quotes from Alright, looking at glowball/Llamarble connection, I begin with Llamarble

Also, this is petsPick!

Tell me about your actual pets, no details of course. Just sharing, I'll go first. I have a puppy she's about 1.5 years and I LOVE HER she is fluffy and adorable!

This is a terrible idea. This equates you claiming a fluffy and adorable puppy. How is it possible that you do not realise this? And besides, this is fishing. Say that someone tells you that his dog is a German Shepherd who can find anything when he follows his nose. You will just assume that this person is likely a cop. Now I am forced to wonder which one is the explanation of your behaviour. (1) Reckless town - who just won the "VI of the game" trophy despite quil's efforts or (2) fishy scum.

If knowing who cats are gives you vigging powers, wouldn't that be grounds for species-claim?

Here defending Glowballs call for claims.

posting to say I exist but not reading this game til tomorrow

It's tomorrow, and you're the only one not voting and neither is "roxi" so I'm assuming the vote belongs to you?

IDK... care to comment on this?

Hahaha truly you are fishy mcfisherwoman.
And 'oh man I'll own the VI label!' can be read as "YES! AN EXCUSE TO BE ANTI-TOWN."

Glowball is town.

defence of Glow again, calling her town.

More defending of Glow

Jason - II had town on him early but I was totally wrong. 135, 161, the quote striping post is just amazing and the glowball vote is :terrible:

Pretty sure glowball is scum if lewarcher is scum.

Hated this.

now to look at Glowball...Glow has made no mention of Llamarble the entire game, nor made any reference to any Llamarble posting...

I 100% believe there to be a connection or even through quotes within quotes....

I 100% believe there to be a connection

He has been defending Glowball non stop
Glowball has not mentioned or even referenced him.

I had the two of them as scum day 1... I see this as a connection to further my read on them both as scum.

You are making it look like I am only looking at you and LLam, when I have other suspects.. . Your over defensive is noted and interersting.

Then shouldn't you be voting Ghostlin?

Yeah, probably.
VOTE: Ghostlin
Though I'm not really sure out of VP / Ghostlin / Xvart who's going to flip scum the hardest.
Right now I feel like all of them will.

Don't like this post, not from Amrun, he has every right to call it. but from LLam, doesn't vote.. gets called out and then votes. Seems weak to me

You, I was saying it wasn't your post but Llam that seemed off to me. Since I was quoting two posts.

We're not sure the third party is a killing role or not.
But yeah, VP being blocked on a night where there weren't as many kills as expected increases the odds he's scum.

Did Llamarble just claim Serial Killer?

As much as I believe a Llam lynch is good, I don't see how... it is more WIFOM... look only one kill, less than expected... VP was blocked so he must be scum.

Rubbish reasoning.

OK, yes looking back I am wrong, I forgot Quilford took a census.

Still though, the VP was blocked, there was not as many kills as 'expected' therefor VP is scum... is just pure crazy.

though, LLam, how do you know there were less kills than expected to be? it is complete WIFOM and something I would expect from scum to parade out there.

I believe Glowball is scum for her cheerleading on lynches, and LLam is scum partly due to him trying to add confusion to the town.

Xvart D1 was a non entity to me, but has joined Ghostlin (already said) LLam (already said) on my scum list. VP I am still not fully sure on and is going in the leaning scummy pile.

[jasonT1981]

I believe Glowball is now just trying to stall the game by trying to go over things already established to hold up a lynch.

[jasonT1981]

"In post 969, jasonT1981 wrote:"
^ That was your most recent post about Llam? Over 100posts ago, yeah I needed an update, reads change.

Now you aren't voting him, why? Why would you settle for a Ghostlin lynch when you want Xvart and I looked at tomorrow and you also still think Llam is scum regardless of his claim.

bloody hell.....

I can have more than one suspect, but only one vote.

[jasonT1981]

Jason lynch > Ghostlin lynch because a probscum lynch is better than a probtown lynch.

Read Jason's ISO. Hell, just read his first post of the game. He's scum.

you never answered my question on this, what was scummy about my first post?

[jasonT1981]

The LLam wagon crumbled, so therefor I am voting somenoe else I suspect as scum, given Llam is not a viable lynch today.

[jasonT1981]

the competing wagon is me???? LOL.

No, just because I vote Xvart in RVS, then suspect him later... does not implicate anything. You are pushing crap and tryign to distract from other things going on in this game. I am not tunnelling, unlike yourself.

[jasonT1981]

So there you go... I do it, its scummy.. but you do it, its ok. How the fuck does that even work?

How does voting for one of my scum reads since D1 seem like settling for any lynch?

[jasonT1981]

Glow, can you show me why you think the Ghost wagon sucks?

You say you are voting me, because you think I am scum...

Yet go after me for voting someone I suspect as scum saying I am settling for any lynch.

That makes no sense.