Mini 497 - Game Over

[kabenon007]

random.org says...

[kabenon007]

vote Nekka-Lucifer

!

[kabenon007]

Argh!!!! You spoiled the movie for me! I haven't seen it yet! Aiihhh! *covers ears* lalalal! I can't hear you!

[kabenon007]

Do any of us really have any aim at this stage in the game? There are no reactions, all it is at the beginning is random voting anyway. No one really has a reason for voting except to provoke a reaction.

[kabenon007]

I don't know if this type of character cxan exist in a mini normal, but I have seen a character called the Jester or something like it, I think. And his win condition is to have the town lynch him. I doubt dusterhan is a jester, that doesn't seem to be likely in a mini normal. But his playing has been odd. None of his posts have been clear in any way, almost every one has some sort of enigma in it. He plays almost like he's trying to get us to believe he is scum or something, which, even if he is town, is extremely unhelpful to the town as a whole.

[kabenon007]

I do not see dusterhan so much as scummy, just incredibly unhelpful. Basically all his posts so far have contained is just funny and confusing quips. I don't see this as particularly scummy, just extremely unhelpful. We cannot get any information out of funny anecdotes. But this is not scummy, so much as newbish. So I dont see dusterhan as scummy... yet.

[kabenon007]

I think that in the cases we are looking at, people are saying that dusterhan made a mistake, that he was exhibiting newbish tendencies. While his actions might appear scummy, appear is the key word. Sometimes newb actions can be mistaken for scummy actions. It's not an excuse for sloppy actions, but that is the difference people are hinting at. He isn't acting so much scummy, he just isn't really helping the town too much. Do you understand now, joost, or shall I elaborate a bit more?

[kabenon007]

K. Just doin' my duty! What makes you think he is being more newb scum than newb townie? I don't see it, but maybe you can... enlighten me.

[kabenon007]

I don't know which of you two to believe on this one, but if we look at the facts, the logical choice is destructor. The posts show a sudden change in TinVision's perpective on dusterhan. And the explanation is that he editted out his reasoning. But that could be a lie. The only facts we have are in favor of destructor's analysis.

[kabenon007]

All I am saying is that destructor is right, you did change your mind suddenly. And there is no proof other than your word that you editted your post. Now I did miss that your explanation was noticing dusterhan's vote request. However, that was not the point of my post. The point was to say that if we were keeping a by the numbers score based on the facts we have, destructor would have won. But you will notice I did not vote for you, because I don't think makes you scummy. It is just something I noticed and thought should be brought up.

[kabenon007]

I was kinda wodering the same thing there Atticus. We have all established that dusterhan is lurking, we have asked him to post, and he hasn't. Why would placing a vote on him at this point do any good at all, unless Nirp was scum? I don't know, it does seem a tad scummy...

[kabenon007]

so dusterhan has enough time to post an "I'm here," but not enough time to actually put any kind of effort in. My vote is switching from

unvote

to

vote: dusterhan

.

[kabenon007]

I'm not saying we should lynch him, all I am saying is that his posting mere I'm here posts but avoiding writing anything of importance is scummy, and right now he is the scummiest person in my eyes. I haven't really seen too much in the realm of other scumminess. My vote on Nekka was random, and my vote serves a better purpose on duster. I don't think he is any danger of being lynched yet. He is only at three I believe. And destructor, just for the record, there is really no such thing as a harmless scum, as long as one is alive, the town will die. There might be something like a worthless scum, who doesn't say anything and so is an easy lynch but provides no information. But I don't think any scum can be harmless.

[kabenon007]

kabenon, in post 124, you stated that placing a vote for dusterhan didn't do any good and that it was scummy of me to do so. In post 135, you decide to vote for him yourself. Why this sudden change?

Your vote for him was when he had not even responded to our wish that he post. That could have various reasons, such as illness, school, etc. But now he has posted something but refused to add anything to the game. That is why I felt it pertinent to put my vote where it belongs.

[kabenon007]

Meanwhile, where is dusterhan? I would like to hear him say something of content.

Seconded. I think we have given him enough time by now, so unvote, vote dusterhan until he starts posting (or is replaced if he disappears entirely).

As for -TinVision-, I am willing to believe that his excuse is acceptable and that this was a simple mistake on his behalf.

First of all, there was 3 days of inactivity between dusterhan's last post and this one. And Nirp says in this quote that his vote for dusterhan was to get him to post content. I said that I disagree with his voting to get content. My vote on the otherhand is because I think dusterhan is scummy. I want more information from him, but I didn't vote for him just to get him to post, I just think he is scummy, plain and simple. That's why the "sudden change"

[kabenon007]

Goodness Atticus, how many votes do you think dusterhan has? He only has three, he is nowhere near to a lynch. Beside, I have reasoning behind my vote, I think it's scummy that he is still here by his own words but isn't posting anything. Nirp was only voting for him to get him to post. I'm voting him cuz I think he is scummy. What's suspicious of that?

[kabenon007]

Tell me joost, is there or is there not a difference between voting for someone because you want to post and voting for someone because you find them to be scummy. And the answer is certainly yes, those are two completely separate opinions. The reason I found it scummy the second time around is because it was just that, the second time. There is a saying "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me." I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt the first time around, but now, after he has posted twice without comment, I see that as scummy. Blame me for it if you will, but there it is. I can also see how his not posting would be a newbish mistake, as I said before, but the fact that he has posted twice makes me wonder. And no, I don't want him lynched right now. We don't want a quick lynch. I want scum lynched eventually, and without dusterhan to post to defend himself, a lynch of him would not do any good right now. I voted because I think his actions are scummy and that is where I believe my vote belongs.

[kabenon007]

EBWOP:
"a difference between voting for someone because you want them to post,"

Damn me and my speed typing

[kabenon007]

Happy Birthday, btw, Atticus

[kabenon007]

My vote on dusterhan is a statement, in a way. I don't really know how to put it. I think he is scummy for the reasons I have already stated, but I could see how he could still be extremely newb town. That's a very slim possibility in my mind, but it's still there. And we want to avoid any lynching of town if we can help it. But I think it has become apparent that dusterhan is not going to say anything at all, even if he is -1. I don't understand how a townie could want to stay in the shadows and pester us with "vote counts, please!" But who knows. I like my vote where it is, but should the vote count on dusterhan go up suddenly, I would probably remove mine to allow dusterhan to have another shot at posting.

[kabenon007]

[quote"Knuck"]We have established that voting for Dusterhan isn't going to make him post content suddenly.[/quote]

And I have established, (many times, I might add,) that I am not voting for him to pressure him into posting! I think he is scum! Goodness, I'm repeating myself over and over!

You keeping your vote on him makes no sense since we know he isn't going to defend himself, and 8 pages in I would say we can at least wait until someone makes some more than bored one liner scummy moves.

I am hoping that he will either post or be replaced. And when he is replaced, his replacement will most likely not play in the same way that dusterhan has been. And so, with my vote still on this replacement, it shows that I thought the player he was replacing was scummy, and so hopefully he will say something. That is why I don't want to see dusterhan lynched yet, cuz it won't give us information. But my vote on him let's you all know where I stand.

[kabenon007]

You are dodging questions, dusterhan. Please answer the questions people have addressed to you, and maybe people will stop picking on you.

[kabenon007]

Well how about that! Happy b-day TV!

[kabenon007]

Wait. You are apparently convinced he is scum, or at least that the chance he is town is "very slim", yet you have stated that you do not want to see him lynched. Why? Also, I would like you to explain exactly why you think he is scum.

Nirp, this one has already been addressed as well, but I will repeat myself... once again!

I don't want to see him lynched right now, because it is obvious that he is not going to say much of anything even if he were to be placed at -1. I placed my vote on him because he is the scummiest player I see atm.

Why do I see him as scummy? Well... I found that the first time he posted and then lurked to be annoying, not in the town's best interest, but then after we badgered him, pestered him and prodded him for a post with some kind of content, he responds by asking for a vote count again. I was willing to let it go as newbish the first time. And now he tells us he is lurking by his own design. I cannot understand why a person would want to lurk that much. It serves the town no purpose. However, I am considering moving my vote to somewhere where it could do some good, cuz having it on a silent dusterhan is not serving much of a purpose.

[kabenon007]

What do you mean, Atticus?

[kabenon007]

Ah, I get you now.

[kabenon007]

I assume you are talking to me, dusterhan, and the response is a lot of questions! Why are you lurking, can you post content, who do you find suspicious, etc. etc. The list goes on...

[kabenon007]

yes, let's. That's a combination of let and us, that means you included! You need to help too!

[kabenon007]

Really, though, in all honesty, what other conclusion can we make about dusterhan? What possible gain could a townie have with not posting, avoiding questions, and baiting us?

[kabenon007]

What do you know about playing this game, dusterhan? You haven't "played" at all! We might be playing too safe, but you aren't playing anything, except maybe dumb.

[kabenon007]

pm sent! Can we count on dusterhan to send one?

[kabenon007]

You have to remember, Atticus, Nekka asked to be replaced. He just was checking in and saw he hadn't been replaced, so he decided to help a bit until Cavane found one.

[kabenon007]

kabenon007
Enough seems to have been said about kab. I'll try not to repeat too much.
Despite his scummy posts, he has been scum hunting to a degree and has made pro-Town posts. The last post of his I noted was 188. It's the very last sentance I note.
He insisted that his vote was on dusterhan for no reason other than him thinking he was scum. In this, he is implying that it had some other purpose, such as pressure, which he pointedly said it wasn't.

Maybe I worded it funny, but what I meant was that, although I saw dusterhan as scummy, at the point when I made the post, I saw that my vote on duster was not having any sway one way or the other, so I kept him in the back of my mind and considering moving on to others I found scummy. I still think duster is scum, but if my vote was not having any effect, I was going to move it to where it would.

[kabenon007]

Happy b-day, vampyrusddg

[kabenon007]

well curious, hello again!

[kabenon007]

I don't recall if I unvoted but if I did not...

unvote

[kabenon007]

Duster coming up scum or town has nothing to do with why I'm suspicious of kab. I've said before and I'll say again: its because he has been consistently inconsistent.

You're joking. You have to be. Honestly! What inconsistencies do I have, oh wise Sephiroth? My opinions of dusterhan have changed, yes, but I have explained them, have not denied changing them, so where then are my inconsistencies?

[kabenon007]

Sephiroth, you are seriously overreaching here. I changed my opinion once... so that makes me repetetively change my opinions, according to you I guess. Consistently inconsistent would consist of me changing my opinion over and over, and I have really only had one opinion change of duster. And I have already explained my reasons for switching my opinion, (only once) and if you still find them scummy, I guess there's nothing I can do about it, because that is the truth, so... whatever. Duster was being lurky, yes, but he could have been just newb, but when we brought up the fact that we thought he shouldn't be lurking anymore, he still did it, so I changed my opinion, my tactics, cuz simple belief in his newbness wasn't gonna cut it anymore.

[kabenon007]

According to your earlier posts, he didn't look scummy just unhelpful. Now, you are saying that he looked scummy, but it can be excused my newbness. Your first change of opinion, from thinking he wasn't scummy at all, to saying that what looks scummy could just be noob town.

I never said in post 98 that I saw him as appearing scummy, I was saying others were. Please try not to misinterpret my posts as that will look like you are overreaching.

He isn't acting so much scummy, he just isn't really helping the town too much

A direct quote from post 98, from which Sephiroth seems to derive my saying that I see dusterhan as scummy. I said, as was posted, that he might appear to be scummy, but at that time it could be excused by newbness. I never said he looked scummy in my own eyes. It was merely in reference to other's views of him. And even if I am taking this too seriously or whatever, at least it is sparking discussion.

[kabenon007]

It's not a contradiction when taken in the context that my opinion changed between those two posts. Dusterhan appeared, read the thread, saw that we were wishing that he post, saw that we were thinking he was lurking, telling him he should not lurk, that it was being seen as scummy, and yet he continues to lurk. So my opinion changed. Plain and simple.

Also, perhaps my bolding a few words will help Sephiroth understand better...

I think that in the cases we are looking at,

people

are saying that dusterhan made a mistake, that he was exhibiting newbish tendencies. While his actions might appear scummy, appear is the key word. Sometimes newb actions can be mistaken for scummy actions. It's not an excuse for sloppy actions, but that is the difference

people

are hinting at.

He isn't acting so much scummy, he just isn't really helping the town too much.

Do you understand now, joost, or shall I elaborate a bit more?

[kabenon007]

It was not meant to be a patronizing tone, I actually wanted you to understand it. Oh well...

And it was kind of like a build up of pressure, starting with that post of dusterhan's vote count please, building building building and then wham, a coup de graux (i don't know how to spell that) with his "I'm still here" post. That was the last straw. So I voted, cuz my opinion changed. There you have it.

[kabenon007]

Pressure inside of me, building. Like annoyance, if you catch my meaning. I was becoming increasingly annoyed with Duster, and then he made me change my opinion due to an increase in internal annoyance, which I referred to as pressure. Probably a bad analogy, but oh well, it's been typed already.

[kabenon007]

Like you shake up a bottle of pop long enough, eg. dusterhan's continued lurking and refusing to post after we asked him to and pointed out it wasn't good what he was doing, then the top pops off after the pressure builds, eg. me voting.

[kabenon007]

TinVision, I believe that, as Sephiroth made the mistake too, that CKD replaced duster. Right? It's tough to decipher with jdodge not having mod priveleges here.

As for this whole exchange, in the beginning I was going to side with CKD. I thought Sephiroth was repeating himself a bit, and that CKD was bringing up good points. But as the argument continued, I saw that CKD was running out of things to say, resorting to appeals to emotion, attacking the word choice or mistakes of Sephiroth, and just basically shirking and avoiding the questions. And I realized that Sephiroth kept repeating himself because what he was saying was true. So now, Sephiroth comes out on top in my mind.

HOS: CKD

I want to hear him one last time before I vote, and would also like to see a vote count.

[kabenon007]

Also, I see that SilverPhoenix has been online and posting, and so has either lost interest in this game or is lurking. Post please, Silver!

[kabenon007]

Appeals to emotion are scum tactics because they don't rely on logic to come to a conclusion. You are trying to get someone to make a decision based on feelings, which can easily be manipulated. Logic, however, while not foolproof, is a much more solid base on which to make an argument. Emotions vary from person to person, so they are harder to refute and say, well, you couldn't have felt that way, because no one can know how another person was truly feeling. But we can know what they truly posted and said.

[kabenon007]

sarcasm and angry posts, as you yourself called them, are indeed appeals to emotion. They are, rather than appealing to us to think, appealing to us to feel as you feel, that his attacks on you are ridiculous rather than appealing to us to think that his attacks are full of holes.

[kabenon007]

Because there is clearly no motivation for town to use appeals to emotion, so there is no "well, maybe he's doing that so we think he's protown" factor. Please explain how appeal to emotion could possibly be wifom

Sometimes people use appeal to emotions without realizing it. I have on many occasions, usually in an attempt to further their argument and make it look like it contains more content than it does. Also, for scum to use logic to defend themselves is difficult, because the truth of the matter is that they are not the townies they are lying to be. So logic is not on their side. So they have to lie and use appeal to emotion because the logic, the truth, is that they are scum. It's like Seph said, townies have no need to use appeal to emotions in a constructive argument. In mere passing, I can excuse that more readily.

[kabenon007]

EBWOP: Oops, I had meant to include in there that I would also like to know how appeal to emotions is wifom. Otherwise Seph's quote means nothing.

[kabenon007]

yes. Appeals to emotions are not relevant based on whether they are true or false. An appeal to emotion is just a way of expressing your ideas, be they true or false. It doesn't matter which they are.

As to whether or not I see you scummy, I have already placed my HOS on you. I also do not like how you kind of have that defeatist kind of attitude, "well, if I get lynched and come up town..." If you are gonna get lynched and you are town, don't say we're gonna regret it; make us SEE that we're gonna regret it. But I want to see what the vote count is before I decide to vote on you or not. Don't want to rush into a situation where scum could jump on a quickly growing wagon.

[kabenon007]

I do not believe that any scum would deliberately argue something they knew was wrong

Isn't everything that a scum is arguing for inherently something they know is wrong? I mean, they have to argue that they are town, and they know that to be wrong, yet they still argue it anyway. I don't think I understand that line, shanba.

[kabenon007]

Okay, now I think I understand, but still sometimes craplogic is sometimes derived from good logic that has just run its course, like if a scum presses the attack too long and runs out of things to say.

[kabenon007]

Well, CKD, in post 385, you appealed to our emotions again... "hang me for it if you got too..." That kind of talk is something I have been attacked for in this game as well... by Shanba I think... why are you not attacking it with CKD?

[kabenon007]

EDWOP: That last line is directed at Shanba, btw.

[kabenon007]

CKD, how many times do I have to say it, I want a vote count before I vote. Listen to me so we don't waste space repeating ourselves. Don't worry, I am sure my vote will be on you soon enough.

[kabenon007]

No, CKD, I just don't want to vote, have you at -1, and then have people who are suspicious of you, who could be scum, vote for the hammer. We need information, not just a lynch. A lynch is necessary, but information takes precedence. That being said, I am going to put you at -2. I am comfortable with that.

vote CKD

[kabenon007]

Does it matter? There opinions do not influence mine. I am my own person and fomulate my own opinions. What was the point in asking me this?

[kabenon007]

Shit, I can't spell... there=their...

[kabenon007]

Just because my vote has only been on one person does not mean I think you/duster are the only ones I find scummy. It's just that you two have given me significant reasons to vote you, so why should I back down?

[kabenon007]

Fair enough

[kabenon007]

Hey, sorry about my absence. I really have no excuse, I just forgot to check on this one. Um... my vote on CKD still stands, he hasn't defended himself well enough IMO.

[kabenon007]

Oh please. It's obvious that either Sephiroth or CKD are scum. Your suspicions are, let's face it, not that good. That's why I'm still alive. The town would much rather go after people who look scummy than people who don't. And that is CKD.

[kabenon007]

You mean that post 342, in which basically all you said was that my statements were empty and that I appeal to emotion a lot? That case? Not much to refute my friend. You say I am suspicious because I use words like "...yet" or "in all honesty" because they make my arguments empty statements that I am trying to make seem more contentful. Please. Just because I add those on at the end does not mean that it takes away from the content of the post. You only provided the short blurb at the end, not the meat and potatoes of the posts. Shame on the edit job. I merely add those on to say that that is how my opinion stands, and that is how it will stand until I am proven otherwise.

And you are right, Shanba. I wanted to throw as much suspicion around as possible... and then go into actively advocating ONE person's lynch, pretty soon after these spraying of suspicions you speak of. If I wanted to spray suspicion, why would I have got one-tracked on duster? Confusing...

[kabenon007]

Wriggle room? Because I say yet... and in all honesty? Don't you think you are stretching just a bit far on this one, Shanba? And would you please point out how I "throw suspicion around?" I see me scumhunting... providing reasons why I see people as suspicious, but throwing? Don't see it. And townies can have multiple targets as well, I believe some people like it when people post scum lists, that's more than one person to target... your logic has holes, Shanba.

[kabenon007]

You are not providing reasons why you think people are suspicious, you're jumping on other people's reasons for finding people suspicious.

I can't do that? Can't someone be scummy for the reasoning behind their attacks?

Not to mention that many of them are appeals to emotion. It's a disturbing theme running through your posts.

So why don't you attack CKD more heavily then? Most of his recent posts have been appeals to emotion?

And spraying attacks everywhere is not a protown thing to do.

And yet you have failed to present me with an example of said spraying...

Other people seem to think I have been scumhunting and posting content. Opposed Forces and destructor say I have been scumhunting and posting pro-town posts. So, who is wrong, Shanba? You, or all the others?

Look at this little nugget I dug up:
[quote"Shanba"]Couple things - If you note, though, I have attacked CKD - he is second on my list but for other reasons than appeals to emotion, because

I do not believe that appeals to emotion alone are particularly strong scumtells

.[/quote]

But wait... isn't that one of your main arguments against me? Have a change of thought there, Shanba?

[kabenon007]

You are not providing reasons why you think people are suspicious, you're jumping on other people's reasons for finding people suspicious.

I can't do that? Can't someone be scummy for the reasoning behind their attacks?

Not to mention that many of them are appeals to emotion. It's a disturbing theme running through your posts.

So why don't you attack CKD more heavily then? Most of his recent posts have been appeals to emotion?

And spraying attacks everywhere is not a protown thing to do.

And yet you have failed to present me with an example of said spraying...

Other people seem to think I have been scumhunting and posting content. So, who is wrong, Shanba? You, or all the others?

Look at this little nugget I dug up:

Couple things - If you note, though, I have attacked CKD - he is second on my list but for other reasons than appeals to emotion, because

I do not believe that appeals to emotion alone are particularly strong scumtells

.

But wait... isn't that one of your main arguments against me? Have a change of thought there, Shanba?

(Fixed the quote...)

[kabenon007]

I can't believe you just said this. Scum like to throw as much suspicion around as possible - the more targets there are, the better the chances of a mislynch. The better the chances of a mislynch, the happier the scum are. Of course, you have to pick a wagon eventually - a wagon, that, notably was on a player many people had advocated suspicion on. Similarly on CKD (one reason I am wary of voting him.) I'm not saying that scum are only going to spray suspicion around - sooner or later they need to get a lynch too.

Didn't quite get you the first time I read this, but now I understand. You misunderstood what I posted. I probably should have spelled it out, but I was being sarcastic. Notice how I ask the question after I say I wanted to spray suspicion? That was what was meant to make it sarcastic. I failed... my bad.

[kabenon007]

Dammit, I hadn't meant to post that. I had only meant to post that I thought it was obvious that CKD was scum, which is what I have been advocating anyway. But when I was typing, my mind went and wrote out who else I had been suspicious of, and I had not wanted him to know I found him suspicious. I have had my eye, quietly, on Sephiroth for a little bit now, and accidentally included him in my "obvious" scum post. No one can say a person is definite scum other than the cop. I used obviously in my argument against Shanba bascially to invoke a reaction and provide more emphasis to my statement, like saying, this is exactly how I feel, it's gonna take a lot to change my views on CKD, and I accidentally included Seph in with that. I was thinking about how I thought CKD was scummy, and because I had recently developed a scummy thought of Sephiroth, I accidentally wrote him in as well and didn't catch it.

I didn't want him to find out about my suspicions so I could watch him in secret, but now that it is out there, I guess I better explain. He and I were going back and forth pretty hard for awhile, and it was getting a lot of information on the table. And then, too quickly, IMO, it stops, and Sephiroth moves on to CKD. I just found that to be scummy, too opportunistic, like his attack on me wasn't going well so he switched targets. I didn't say anything in hopes I could observe him in secret a bit, but now it's out in the open. Oh well.

[kabenon007]

I just think you are focusing on my appeals to emotion more than CKD's.

[kabenon007]

Well, no one else seemed to notice it, and I kind of wondered if I was wrong to think it was scummy, but I did find it scummy nonetheless, so I wanted more info before I brought my suspicions forward.

[kabenon007]

You have made no case against me. I have nothing to defend against. Brilliant.

[kabenon007]

Sorry, my life's been all sorts of crazy, and this game kinda fell off the grid for me... I'll really try to bring it back up in my participation. I need to go back and re-read, cuz my primary suspect is Sephiroth, but I want to make sure, cuz I was pretty sure of CKD too, and that didn't turn out well for us at all.

[kabenon007]

Well, I am still leaning on Sephiroth, I won't vote, cuz I don't want to get tunnelvisioned like I kind of did with CKD. But I would like to hear an explanation for his switch of targets, from me to CKD. I didn't think I was done, and all of a sudden you up and switched. It confused me. It seemed like you were just trying to be fighting an opponent on which you had a case.

[kabenon007]

Great, we're getting back into a two person post-fest. I'll join in, hoping that people start getting replaced, because as Mizzy says, it is better than just lynching them.

As for my results on Aimee, there isn't much to say. She hasn't done much for this game, like most of the people haven't, sadly. My interest level dropped in this game, but I'm trying to rectify that. Aimee has not done much in the realm of scum hunting, she has voted me a couple times, and when questioned as to why, has yet to respond. She is one who lurks for awhile, pops in with an "I'll catch up and post" and then just kinda... falls off the grid again. And Mizzy's analysis of the voting really made me think. A scum would know that a CKD lynch was basically inevitable, what with the lurkiness of dusterhan, coupled with the lack of votes from each of the lurkers. So, in my opinion, I would bet that at least one, I'm leaning more towards two, were not on the CKD vote. Reasoning: they didn't have to be. Lack of votes plus most of the votes on CKD means he would be lynched, so the scum could sit back, or better yet, place their vote on someone not in danger of being lynched so they could later be like "I was on this person! I had nothing to do with the CKD lynch." See what I mean? So, I am going to have to, and I'm probably going to be crucified for this,

vote:Aimee

[kabenon007]

Well, we already know what I've been thinking about Sephiroth. Joost has been on my townie list since our big discussion earlier, where he attacked me for reasons I could understand, but when I defended myself, he backed off, which meant, for me, that he wasn't scum just looking for a lynch, but rather townie looking for a scum. TinVision.. he's harder to figure out. He's had some scummy stuff, but I don't think all the hype on his is warranted, or as warranted as it has been.

[kabenon007]

Flameaxe is annoying me. He expects us to follow him based on hunches we do not know, but we are to trust him? Just... trust his hunches... right...

[kabenon007]

I don't expect you to be sorry. Just stating the obvious. Maybe, instead of apologizing, tell us why we should be voting Mizzy? Perhaps? Maybe?

[kabenon007]

Wow, I didn't realize the deadline was so close... is it possible to get a vote count? I want Aimee lynched, but have been kind of lazy with this game, and haven't got my case in a presentable form yet. Not much of a case, but then again, not much content from her to analyze. However, to avoid a no lynch, I will change my vote to some of my lesser suspects.

[kabenon007]

Well, so far, what has Aimee provided for the town? She had, basically, only one good post so far this entire game. The rest of it has been, "I'll re-read... lynch kabenon..." But she doesn't provide a case, she doesn't DO anything. A townie would be concerned enough about the welfare of the town to at least post something that resembles a case against someone they believe to be scum, and Aimee has yet to do that. She is the scummiest in my eyes, and to avoid a no lynch, and to lynch scum, I have voted for her. Regardless of who the rest of the town votes for, we HAVE to avoid a no-lynch. A no-lynch just gives the scum a free NK, and we get no lynch information. We need to lynch someone here.

[kabenon007]

Wow, JDodge ninja posted me there, I was going to post for an extension as well! Sweet!

[kabenon007]

Assuming you assume yourself to be town, the fact that you two were lumped as Seph's "targets" implies that you feel CKD is town with you.

I figured at this point they were bussing partners and therefore Sephiroth was just trying to look town in our eyes and switched his vote off me to try to look more town, if that makes sense. But then CKD turned out to be town. And I had so thought he was scum, I don't know. I guess I kinda loss my confidence in what I thought was Sephiroth's scumminess.

However, you would then say things like "I'm not saying we should lynch him, all I am saying is I think he is scummy". Er....if you think he is scum, why wouldn't you want him lynched?

Sigh... I've explained this before, but in good faith I will explain again

I thought duster was scum, yes. But I did not want him to just simply be lynched. Had he been lynched without providing information for us to use after, the lynch would have been half of a success. I had hoped that at some point he would post something worthwhile. That is why I did not want him lynched.

[kabenon007]

It's an upgraded form of IGMEOY. I'm extremely weary of him, I think he COULD be scum, but I'm kind of not confident in it because of our results with CKD and how confident I was that he was scum.

[kabenon007]

Where did he take responsibility? I must have missed that post or something...

[kabenon007]

Yeah, okay, I had seen that one. But I didn't necessarily take that to mean he had taken responsibility. Like you said, he hasn't really said anything in relation to that yet. But I suppose that the fact he said it does have a town feeling about it.

[kabenon007]

Popcorn? Oo... I love popcorn. Gets stuck in my teetch though... *offers floss* (unused floss...)

[kabenon007]

EDWOP: TEETH, not teetch... jeez

[kabenon007]

Having floss in my teeth does not necessarily make me type any differently...

[kabenon007]

Cute and me are two words that are seldom used in the same breath.

[kabenon007]

Well, welcome to the game, my vote was on your predecessor, tell me why it should not be, seeing as how she didn't or wouldn't or couldn't!

[kabenon007]

Nothing can be assumed in mafia. If it isn't in a post, it is harder to attack. I just wanted a concrete spot to refer to later, if need be.

[kabenon007]

Um... Shanba, you need to read. No where did I say that Harper was scum. Thank you try again later.

[kabenon007]

@ Shanba: Which posts are we talking about here? I find only one post really directed at DH, and that was meant more to be funny, a kind of stream of consciousness post, stating where he was, what he needed to do.

@Mizzy: I don't have a read on him either way. I saw stuff I didn't like with Aimee, mostly based on meta. And until he gives me a reason to remove my vote, it will stay where it is, on his predecessor, because the new guy claims everything from his predecessor, including suspicions and votes, at least in my opinion.

[kabenon007]

Actually not, Shanba. I attacked Aimee based on meta reasons and lurking. I have no meta on DH, and he is not lurking. Now you're just grasping at things to throw at me.

[kabenon007]

I asked him to tell me why I shouldn't vote for him! That was all I basically said to the guy! How is that "not letting up?"

[kabenon007]

The suspicion was directed at Aimee, not at DH. Like, tell me why I shouldn't keep my vote on you, convince me that it should be somewhere else, because Aimee did not. I suppose you are right Shanba, there is a bit of "suspicion" in there, but it isn't as drastic as you made it sound.

[kabenon007]

Which is why I want him to clear his/Aimee's name, since she refused to. That's all I'm asking! Why would I simply remove my vote because someone new took her place?

[kabenon007]

Hm, I think I see where I may have been misinterpretted. I find DH suspicious simply because he inherited the suspicion I found in Aimee. Does that clear up the weirdness?

[kabenon007]

I guess, Shanba, I felt suspicious as I saw it was different from suspicious as you saw it. And Mizzy, my reasons for voting Aimee may have been wrong in your eyes, but in my perspective they were good enough for a vote and a try to get more info, which failed.

[kabenon007]

Sigh... why would I simply unvote because a new person stepped in? I would just be getting attacked for completely different reasons. I wouldn't be able to win with you people. So I chose the route I thought would give me info to go on, cuz this argument has done nothing of that sort.

[kabenon007]

Well, you see, Aimee's playstyle was different in this game when she was participating. It was different from when she was town, and so that was what I was basing my vote on. Lurkiness and such played a part, but I said before that it was metaing that provided most of my info.

[kabenon007]

But then why is meta even used by scummers then? If you can't base diddly on it, why use it?

[kabenon007]

Yeah, well most of the data in this game is coming from four people, and I don't think you are scum, Sephiroth we've already discussed, and that leaves only Shanba, who I don't think is scum either. Aimee was basically the only choice I had much to go on.

[kabenon007]

It's like lynching an active player when half the game is inactive...suddenly, you just killed your game even more by losing an active person.

Either you worded this wrong, or it is itself wrong. So, you are saying that if I find an active player to be scum, I should not lynch them, just for the sake that they are being active, and said lynch would slow down the game further? That makes no sense.

[kabenon007]

My unwillingness to help the town? I'm discussing, I'm participating. I'm sorry, but if you lynch me for not helping the town, you would have to lynch all the lurkers as well. And I'm having difficulty tracking down my games with Aimee. They were among my first games, which I didn't keep track of. However, I believe that it is wrong for me to hold Harper accountable for meta-action of his predecessor.

unvote

[kabenon007]

Okay... what would you like to be hearing? I don't see how you could deduce that... Flameaxe hasn't done anything worthwhile. He's just been spamming lynch Mizzy.

[kabenon007]

1: I posted after Mispeled posted a comment about me.
2: I was trying to satisfy Shanba's wants in posting links to Aimee games, which I searched for but couldn't find.

[kabenon007]

That's nice. Cuz I'm not scum, I'm actually a vig, so either Harper has sanity issues, or...

vote: Dean Harper.

[kabenon007]

Someone say sanity?

[kabenon007]

I meant your cop has sanity issues, not Harper actually.

[kabenon007]

I'm a one-shot night vig, I can only kill at night, and only once. So I wanted to save it for an emergency time. Besides, my role is easily testable. Just tell me who you guys want me to vig tonight, and I'll do it. Simple. It's like an extra lynch. We can even vote on the person if you guys want to.

[kabenon007]

The thing is, now that I've come out, I'm probably going to be NK'd anyway. So the NK will at least be wasted on me. But it can't be wasted if you guys lynch me. And I can at least try.

[kabenon007]

EBWOP: I forgot that Harper claimed cop now, so he will probably be the NK.

[kabenon007]

Well, I know I will probably get jumped on for this one, but a no-lynch is also a possibility.

[kabenon007]

unvote. Seeing as there is no counter-claim, then I am forced to assume that Harper is cop. Also, we can decide that I will choose from a majority that the town thinks is scum, that way the scum aren't assured to hit the same target as me. Plus, if we choose wisely enough, we'll hit scum, and scum wouldn't target themselves.

[kabenon007]

shit...

unvote

[kabenon007]

Wait! I have an idea! If we say who I am going to target, the scum will be faced with a choice. Kill the claimed cop and let me kill the person we agreed that I would target, or kill me and let the cop get another investigation. If they kill me, then we have another scum, because they would not want me to kill one of their own. The down side to this is that if we choose my target wrong, they will just kill Harper.

[kabenon007]

Bah humbug! GG all!

[kabenon007]

Yay scum win! Pulled her out in the end! Congrats on all players!

[kabenon007]

No hard feelings Shanba! I made a huge frickin mistake with CKD. I accidentally let Seph's name slip, and I had to come up with some excuse. I thought that was the end. But Seph played it off well, and so I pretty much resigned myself to being a bus target, which actually worked better than trying to defend myself...

[kabenon007]

Lol, it makes me laugh that everyone apologizes for my lynch!